Drafting and QBs
Posted: April 16th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 150 Comments »This is a weak class of QBs. Even the top duo aren’t in the Andrew Luck class. No one feels like a “we absolutely must have that guy” kind of QB.
One thing we have to understand is that not every pick has to be likely to be a 10-year starter. The Eagles have a starter in Sam Bradford. They have a backup in Mark Sanchez. There is room for a number three QB. Matt Barkley has the job now, but I’ll be surprised if he’s here much past the draft. It just hasn’t worked out. GJ Kinne is a fan favorite, but he’s never shown the passing ability needed to be an NFL QB.
You would ideally love the #3 QB to be someone to develop into a future starter, but that doesn’t have to be the case. The Eagles simply need to find a player they like and think could be effective when called upon. If the guy has a ceiling that keeps him #3, that’s okay.
Ron Wolf, probably the best GM of the past 30 years, believed in drafting a QB every year. You never knew when you would strike gold. He traded for Brett Favre in the 1992 offseason. Then he started drafting QBs.
1992 – Ty Detmer – 9th round
1993 – Mark Brunell – 5th round
1994
1995 – Jay Barker – 5th round
1996 – Kyle Wacholtz – 7th round
1997 – Ronnie McAda – 7th round
1998 – Matt Hasselbeck – 6th round
1999 – Aaron Brooks – 4th round
Hits and misses.
Wolf traded Brunell, Hasselbeck and Brooks away for good compensation. He lost Detmer as a free agent. Wolf didn’t have to use early picks on QBs since he had a great, durable player in Favre. But he still saw value in taking a QB every year. If you hit on one of those guys, it either gives you depth at the most important position or it gives you great trade material.
If the Eagles miss on Mariota in the 1st and then don’t go for Petty or Hundley in the 2nd…there is still something to be said for spending a mid-round or late pick on a QB. The key is for the coaches to have someone they like. If they don’t like any of the prospects, then pass.
Understand that just because you and I don’t like a QB, that doesn’t mean the coaches feel the same way. They go meet these kids and QB is a position where brains and personality really mean something. There might be a player who looks talented, but flawed on tape. If the coaches like his mental make-up, they may feel he is a player that can be developed.
There is nothing wrong with spending a late pick on a QB to try and develop.
I think you’ve got a problem when you spend an early pick on a QB who needs a lot of work. Things do get tricky as we discuss this. Cam Newton went #1 overall, but needed some work. I thought that was a great pick and a no-brainer. He was a special talent, having carried his team to the national title. You have to understand that Newton only played at Auburn for one year and they used a very odd, creative offense. He hadn’t struggled or failed as a drop-back passer. We just hadn’t seen him do much of it. That is very different from a player like Brett Hundley who started at UCLA for 3 years and had some of the same issues late in his career that he did early on.
It will be interesting to see what Chip Kelly does in this draft. Does he go back on his word and make an all-out play for Mariota? Does he draft a mid-round QB? Late rounder? If so, what kind of guy does he go for? Matt Barkley was a polished QB prospect with an average arm and no athleticism. Will Kelly go for an athletic QB? Would he take someone from a small school? Lots of questions to be answered.
There aren’t any late round QBs that I’m infatuated with. I would love to get Petty in the 3rd round, but doubt he lasts that long. The Eagles had dinner with him prior to his Pro Day so they have shown some interest. I wrote the other day about them possibly liking Garret Grayson, a mid-round target. The Eagles have shown interest in Cody Fajardo, who would be a late rounder. Kelly recruited and coached Bryan Bennett for a couple of years at Oregon. He’s another late rounder. Shane Carden doesn’t have a good arm, but he’s grown on me the more I’ve watched of him. He would be a 7th rounder or UDFA. If the Eagles pass on drafting a QB, I do hope they make it a priority position with UDFAs. I think they need a rookie with some talent to add to the mix.
I’m not naive about this. If the Eagles draft a QB late or sign one as a UDFA, the chances are that the player will fail. The numbers tell you that. The point is that QB is such a critical position that it is worth the risk to at least try. Tom Brady was a 6th rounder. Matt Cassel was a 7th rounder. Tony Romo was a UDFA. Matt Flynn was a 7th rounder. Tyrod Taylor, who will compete with Cassel for the starting job in Buffalo, was a 6th rounder. You can find players late. It isn’t common to find them and it can take time to develop them. But the payoff can be worth it if you do get the right guy.
Only a couple of more weeks until we can quit guessing and we finally get some answers.
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As we talk about player evaluation, remember that we all see different things. I watch Brett Hundley and see a player with immense talent. But I also see a player with some bad habits and some issues. The first 90 seconds of this video just concern me too much for me to be completely comfortable with Hundley.
Brett Hundley vs Utah (2014) by db_adrian
I have doubts on whether he will pan out in the NFL, but would only be bothered if the Eagles took him 20th overall. That’s just too early for me. While I don’t love Hundley, I could live with him in the 2nd round. Once again, I’d be placing a lot of trust with Kelly. If this is the guy Kelly wants…let’s see what he can do. Hundley does have NFL talent and he seems to be a high character guy. If you’re taking a risk, you could do worse.
Some people hate Petty. Really hate him. I see a guy who I think would fit the Eagles well and has some talent. He makes some mistakes and lacks a great arm, but I loved the way he ran Baylor’s up-tempo attack so well the last couple of years.
QB evaluation is extremely difficult. There is no formula for success. You need to see tangible talent and physical characteristics, but this is the position where intangibles matter more than any other. You and I can only guess at that stuff from afar. Scouts and coaches have a much better feel in this area, but even they are still doing some guessing.
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You can’t tell me that this doesn’t get you excited..https://www.youtube.com/embed/X9wIvl-OZ6M
No back pedaling, hold on to the ball, pump faking, take a sack in that video. I’m amazed at his quick release. I’m OK if they don’t draft a qb.
He’s just so much more talented than Foles.
NUH UH! Skip Bayless and Stephen A. said so!
I’m just getting to the point where I’m happy with the trade and excited for Bradford as our QB. ….So expect him to be traded away within a few hours.
His deep ball looks much more accurate than Foles. Maybe the deep threat QB keeps the safety out of the box more than the deep threat WR. Even Riley Cooper can get open deep on single coverage every once in a while. Bradford is capable of hitting him in stride whereas Foles under or over threw it half the time.
I LOVED this guy in college. His Heisman season was one of the most impressive performances I’ve ever seen from a college QB. The only issue with him is the health. His talent is most certainly not in question.
Epic
yeah he looks even better out of shotgun, great arm, gets ball out quick, doesn’t run at all. i kind of like qbs that can scramble, but he does have pocket mobility, a little.
I don’t think there’s anyone saying a drafted QB will be Bradfords replacement. He’d battle Barkley.
i cant wait to see what chip and Sam can do together… This offense gets WR’s frequently running free, Sam could end up looking really good in this offense. If he can stay healthy, it should be a fun year.
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If Sam plays 16 games, Chip will probably come out smelling like a genius, because this kid is a SERIOUS TALENT… If Sam fails, it wont be for a lack of talent
This doesn’t get me even a little excited. One can make an impressive “highlight” video of just about anyone who has ever played QB in the NFL. The ‘lowlights’ are just as revealing. One can make an even more impressive Foles highlight video. The Rams fans I know are pretty happy about this deal. Who can blame them? They’ve noticed that Bradford has been regressing since he entered the league. And that has nothing to do with his injuries.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000251299/article/what-we-learned-thursday-sam-bradford-regressing
Watch the video of Bradford in this link that shows his normal, stinky self. Missing wide open receivers, making bad decisions, and holding the ball too long. Get used to it.
There is a reason his offensive coordinator is not coaching in the NFL anymore…he wasn’t a good coach and rode the nepotism train off his dad until everyone realized he was horrible. Poor offensive line, no run game, coach who couldn’t scheme guys open, etc. Sam has the tools, lets give him a chance with some real talent around him…and coachin g him.
And with the 20th pick in the 2015 NFL draft, the Philadelphia Eagles select……………………………. TOMMY LAWLOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PBR and Funyons for everyone!
If we start drafting guys that are already part of the team, I am going to… wait, did you say Funyons?!
I’m a steal in the fourth.
Oh no, now I will be knocked for not considering myself the greatest of all time. Shoot.
Who did this happen to? I know you would be a steal in the fourth, because that’s where I have you in my newest mock.1stTommy Lawlor-LB-Iggles Blitz 2nd Sheil Kapadia-WR-Eagles Blog 3rd Trash can-DL-Novavare complex4th Tyler Aston-Gettin’ Rich U.
The training camp battles with BRUTE are going to be epic.
I have a feeling……….. you may get………… canned!!! *hue hue hue
What? No Baldi? I like Tyler 3, no way he lasts til the 4th. Saints will trade up and take Tyler right before the Eagles pick.
1st — TL
2nd – Flag sticks that Vick use to hit all the time
3rd – Tyler
4th – Sheil
5th – Baldi
I don’t understand why all the fans and media are in love with Trash can. I see no evidence at all the Eagles want to move on from the one they have now…
Right!?! Trash can is not a scheme fit! Plus he doesn’t meet our #culture requirements.
The question is, can you play FB? Could raise your stock by a full round!
I did in 8th grade. In a wishbone offense. That’s the kind of versatility that Heath Evans likes.
I think the way Chip waxes about Mariota is not unjustified, and Grayson will be a starter for someone who gets multiple contracts. Whether Grayson merits a day one or two pick for a team like the Eagles is a good question, but I’d like him if he fell, which I consider unlikely – he won’t make it past the 2nd I think, mid-second. Sometimes QBs fall and sometimes they are hoarded in the first round beyond all reason.
I don’t see anyone else that I like better than Barkley, who’s one of those guys who outsmarts himself but could yet settle down and be a starter grade QB imho. I said he was the best QB in his draft and only Mike Glennon challenges that prediction (not a great draft for QBs, some years there’s nobody). Having Fajardo come in and compete for the no. 3 spot is a good idea if they can get him in the 6th or 7th, since he is a fit for the system. Someone will probably grab Brandon Bridge late rounds but he might be good in the 7th too, as he has a better arm than Barkley. Not a fan of Petty or Bennett as I’ve said.
In every draft there’s a finite group of players that will be good and the teams that sort that out ahead of time draft better. Then there’s guys that never get a chance, some of which could be solid and once and a while I think there’s a Pro Bowler that never gets a chance. That’s why I believe in player evaluation and Best Player Available, but in the case of a playoff contender like the Eagles there are areas of need and areas where there’s no room in the roster.
“Does he go back on his word and make an all-out play for Mariota?”
I would like to preemptively say that any self-righteous anger resulting from Chip going back on the words he spoke during the draft run up is misplaced and silly.
I can already hear the complaints about Chip lying and the arguments about whether he “mortgaged the future”.
I completely disagree, ATG. Chip owes it to us fans to be completely open and honest 24/7/365. So what it if hurts the team? Our ability to trust his media soundbites is far more critical than the team actually winning and losing.
(The truthiness of this statement is +/- 99.9%)
“Truthiness…”
Excellent.
If that were to happen, the only way to rectify the prevarication would be to draft a FB with whatever remaining pick(s) he had after perpetrating such a ruse on the Eagles fan base! That, and he should force the media to address him as The Chipster.
I’d be very excited to see Mariota. Despite any of his flaws, it would feel great to have a throwback to the early McNabb days, where you had a new, promising coach, and a new, handpicked, promising QB to run his system. You just felt that even if this wasn’t our year, that year was certainly on the horizon. There was more than hope: there was real excitement. And I think we got a lot out of that at the time. We came close, we did everything that could have been done, which in a league with no promises, is the best you can hope for as a fan, short of simply winning it all. Those were great times, and I think that Chip+Mariota would feel a lot like that, and that even if we give up assets to get him, we’d have a better team in place than what Reid inherited.
With that said, if we don’t get Mariota, I’m happiest with Bradford. None of these other rookies do anything for me. Not to say they can’t or won’t be good. Just that, short of getting Mariota, Bradford at QB feels like it has at least a thread of hope. More so that what these rookies would offer, and more so than Foles/Sanchez.
I guess what I’m saying is that I hope for Mariota but Bradford is still, IMHO, better than what 50% of the league has to trot out there at QB.
Hope–the refuge of bad teams everywhere.
Not really sure what your point is.
Hey Tommy – I know those first 90 seconds were a little rough, culminating with a terrible interception on a screen pass. But his next pass is beautiful…which is always what you want to see (how does a player respond to a bad mistake). I’m new to Hundley tape but if this game is like the rest, that is one terrible o-line he’s stuck with and a pretty in-creative offense. Plus, 5 minutes left in game needing a TD…Hundley delivers. I see a lot of upside in what I just watched. Thanks again for the great article!
It is pretty consistent to the rest of the tape. He had no talent at WR. His offensive line would have been bad in C-USA. Because of this he does end up having to be the sole creator alot of the time. You see a couple bad plays and then he goes on a tear and just makes highlight reel throws. The kid is resilient.
Totally agree on his O-line. Like a bunch of turnstiles on the DC Metro at 7:15 AM.
Are you still ok if Eagles took him at 20?
Yes.
it’s been awhile since you posted your opinion/reasons on why it makes sense to take him here(at 20) and in all honestly, what you’ve said then still makes a lot of sense…
It’s essentially still a high variance hedge.
If Bradford doesn’t work out and we don’t take a QB this year, we still win between 7 and 9 games. So we’re drafting in the teens. We don’t have a second rounder next year. So that makes moving up very hard. So you would be looking at a position where you basically have to sell the farm to move up for a guy who you may or may not love, just because if Chip goes into year 4 with Sanchez as QB 1…
Exactly, not unlike the seahawks in 2012..signed flynn for 23 mill (10 guaranteed) and still drafted russel in the draft in that same year. If the free agent vet qb works out then fine..let him play out the duration of his contract untill the rook is up to speed..if the rook beats out the vet then we’re set even sooner..it worked out well for the hawks, unfortunately we wont be able to wait untill the 3rd for our rookie this year..ideally we can move back, pick up a 3rd or 2nd and still get our guy
My biggest problem with Hundley tape is my wondering the big WHAT IF Hundley actually had a good offensive coach that allowed audibles so he isnt forced to pass or hand off into bad situations.
If we don’t draft a guy I’d love for us to sign is Connor Halliday.
He put up historic numbers for Wazzu in the Leach Air Raid, he broke his leg in November and needs to put on about 20lbs, but the kid threw the ball 80 times a game. He’s a great distributor, and I think he would be a great UDFA pick up as a developmental guy. He will never be the guy, but could become a good NFL backup who can make the smart decisions to keep the offense moving.
Here’s some video of him:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000485893/article/redskins-give-washington-state-qb-halliday-a-close-look
And her’s some of Shane Carden:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000484465/article/2015-nfl-draft-top-five-sleeper-qb-prospects
And here’s a small school dark horse: Brandon Hill from Miles Austin’s alma mater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J-F5_WifHU
And here is another possibility:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgMjcgRJ_oI
Connor Halliday is a scary QB. I always worried about him in Duck games. He is a fearsome competitor. Love him.
“Wolf didn’t have to use early picks on QBs since he had a great, durable player…”
I can’t imagine a more appropriate model for us to follow…
maybe someday, we’ll have one…maybe…
Regarding Barkley’s spot on the roster: given Kelly’s emphasis on pace in training camp, his odds of sticking through camp may be higher than we’re giving him. If he practices well, that might mean a lot.
No matter who we pick or pick in UDFA, Barkley and Kinne is on the roster at least through the first 3 PS games
hundley looks like he holds on to the ball, but that line is crazy but once he found a rhythm not bad. has arm talent for sure. doesn’t seem like he processes info that quick though w/out all 22 its hard to tell.
One thing with Hundley is also there wasnt really build any real progression in, it was often just 1 read and then make magic (That can work if your QB is Vick, but Hundley is not Vick on the ground)
Multiple reads:
USC tape: 2:40, 3:15, 4:00, 4:55, 5:35, 6:07, 7:33, 8:07
AZ tape: :30, 3:53,
Eye fakes:
Utah: 4:50 holds the safety before throwing perfect backshoulder
5:30 stares down the dig brings the corner up, hits the wheel route for long TD
6:55 looks at the strong side WR combination to hold the FS.
7:05 does the same thing this time hits receiver in stride for go-ahead TD
Zona
3:20 looks of free before throwing great 9 route.
6:05 checks his underneath receivers and shoulder fakes, in perfect collaboration with double move, goes over the top for TD.
6:50 again looks manipulates defense with staring down underneath routes and shoulder fakes before throwing deep for outside WR.
Don’t
tell me he can’t make multiple reads or use his eyes to manipulate a
defense. You’re either not watching tape or not paying attention.
I love Hundley and have for a long time and feel many of the problems people point out are more flaws in the offensive scheme than flaws of Hundley. As you said when asked to make progression reads, he had no problems with it, but often the play call was often just one read and then hope Hundley can make some magic.
Wolf was considered an exceptional scout before he moved to GM. Started in 1963.
from the NFL HOF website.
“Recognized as one of finest personnel men in pro football … Helped build a Raiders franchise that won nine division titles, played in eight AFL/AFC championship games and three Super Bowls”. .
Can’t stand the Raiders but have to admire someone who’s good at his job. He even let Davis take all the limelight.
We should all know by now what kind of QBs Chip likes. They have to be blond, have nice hair and a surfer look. Just. Ask. Matt. Barkley.
Yeah, but can they ride the outside, big wave? Or are they just pretty boys, attracting young girls on the beach?
One thing I find very interesting is that the Eagles have not brought in or seemed to have tried to bring in any veteran OLBs. Right now, behind the starters, we have: Marcus Smith who was slow to develop last year, Travis Long who showed potential in preseason last year but has had 2 serious injuries the past 2 years, and potentially Brad Jones who has played ILB most recently but came into the league as an OLB. There is very little left on the FA market unless you want to take a flyer on a 37-year old John Abraham who may retire due to concussion concerns. They’ve looked at a few 2nd-3rd round OLB types but even if they draft one it is doubtful that they’d be able to come right in as the 3rd OLB.
What does this tell me? Either Chip has a lot more confidence in Marcus Smith’s potential and readiness to contribute next year than his public comments suggest or there will be times only one traditional 3-4 OLB is on the field at a time.
That could be so, particularly if the Kiko-Kendricks duo is dynamic v the run. A third ILB could give BG a play off here and there.
Cant wait to see those two young beasts wreaking havoc in the middle of the field
foolish to write off Marcus, when nyone familiar with him knew he wasnt a draft pick you make expecting him to play for you as a rookie. at best he would have been a situational 3rd down pass rusher, just so happened we had 3 beasts ahead of him in that role
,..
I assume his strength will improve to where we need it to be, and he should be contributing to the 2015 defense, first edge rusher off the bench. cant wait for Marcus to start making people look foolish
Last year Mack and Barr were my favourite outside linebackers but i realized it would be impossible for us to get either one. Marcus smith seemed like a poor mans Barr to me and I was hoping that we would trade down and get him instead of trading up to get Barr. sure enough the situation worked out almost exactly the way i wanted and I’m excited to see what he can do in the next few years..even more excited to see all the detractors eventually STFU.
I have a feeling there’s gonna be another similar case with the draft this year, our staff will value a player higher than most of these so-called “experts” value them..perhaps draft a personally highly valued player at a position that isn’t a pressing “need” right now but may be next year (QB, ILB, DL?)
13 days left
agreed… i was worried that the cowboys would steal Marcus last year in the top 20 of round 1, so you can bet I was thrilled when we traded back, got a pick and still got him,… and while I was praising Marcus Smith in my millions of “Maaaaaarcus Daaaarling” pre draft posts, I always talked about how he would be a great pick for us, even tho he was raw and wasnt going to provide much instant gratification as a rookie. He was a pick you make last year, needing him to be ready for THIS year when we knew we could end up losing Cole or BG… so anyone with a clue Knows Marcus hasnt even really fallen behind schedule yet. He wasnt supposed to pay off last year. Kid moved to Linebacker what 3 years ago? on top of all that, its not at all uncommon for edge rushers to need to spend their rookie season getting stronger before they can make the transition to the NFL game. exactly why so many only play as situational pass rushers as rookies.. well if there werent enough pass rush opportunities for Brandon Graham who was playing out of his mind last year, what kind of simpleton rips marcus for not providing much his rookie season, when he was drafted Knowing he wasnt going to play much last year?.. there is no reason to be done on Marcus yet, he hasnt fallen behind schedule..
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cant wait til this kid shuts the media up..
more curious to find out what BG can do in a fulltime role replacing Cole?
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will he flourish and continue to blow up now that he finally gets to start? or will the extra snaps prove too much and water down his effectiveness?
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Im Hoping BG in a fulltime role is an upgrade over Trent Cole, but that remains to be seen… either way, I assume we will need Marcus this year in some capacity and I expect him to be ready to answer the bell
I have hope, he’s such a driven player, every clip he’s talking about proving everyone wrong. I would think knowing he’s the starter know he’s going to come in the best shape of his career and I think he’s got the talent.
oh he certainly seems hungry for it…. im very curious to see what he does this year. Last year he seemed to develop a knack for forcing fumbles, and not just strip sacks, even punching balls out from a RB grasp… hoping to see him build on that, and I wouldnt bet against him reaching the 10 sack mark, especially with how much havoc Cox creates opening things up for other players to get the stats..
It’s a really deep class for edge rushers. There is alot of talent to be had on day 3 at OLB.
Also Smith showed enough last year that I think coaches feel worst case, comfortable with him at least as a situational backup to Barwin (he can set the edge, and cover).
And I love Vinny but I’m not making him the lynchpin of my 43 under.
seems like most folks think if it’s Bradford, that could work out well. Why is Kempski so down on him?
Combination of his injuries and that his stats with the Rams was BAD (I say his 2013 was actually top 15 in the NFL and that was on bad offensive coached team
JK seems like a numbers guy. A lot of times, we believe what we think we see: This guy sucks…that guy’s pretty good – and then you see performance numbers that confirm your impression or flat out contradict what you thought you saw. He put Foles #’s against Bradford”s, and Foles came out looking slightly better. I personally think Sam underachieved in St. Louis, and Nick may have overachieved w/Eagles, 2013.
I really love Jimmy’s work, but I feel the same way about his Desean rant in terms of big plays.
In one sentence in say that Foles and Sanchez missed to many open WRs down field and then next he says that not having Desean impacted the numbers despite Maclin been open all year
I’m taking your word for here that JK compared the two numbers. How can anyone think you can take 2 QB’s, in two completely different teams and put them head to head and come to any type of conclusion? That’s just silly(to be kind).
Erase the knowledge that Bradford was a #1 pick and a god in college and any objective case for him being better that Foles vanishes.
Unti you watch a tape.
really, what was so good about him when he did play. All I seem to hear is excuses that his WRs dropped passes or that the Rams teams he was on were bad. A lot of short throws on 3rd down when they need more yards. Thats mostly what Ive heard with a few glimpses here or there. I think theres more tape on Foles so youd find more bad I guess but jury still out for sure on this Bradford experiment. Ill believe it when I see it.
you think Chip gave away our starting young QB and a 2nd round pick for an inferior talent?
saying we dont know yet. Jeff Fisher seems to think so
you should check out his play from the last season before he got hurt…. and no matter what you see him do for the Rams, I assume playing QB for the Eagles will be much easier. I assume Chip has WR’s running Wide open, much more often then the Jeff Fisher offense..
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and NO, Jeff Fisher thinks Foles at $500k and a 2nd round pick is worth getting rid of sam and his 13mil..
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you wont find a professional evaluator of talent that says Foles is the more talented QB, and im one of the biggest Foles fans there is,…
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if Sam Fails, I highly doubt it will be because of a lack of talent…but we’ll see.,..
trust me, Im as big a Bradford fan as I can be now, just skeptical. And yes, value wise its Fisher making moves more than one QB vs another but still battling with SB as the answer. This could change come draft day although I doubt it. Im just not going to buy the Bradford stock until I see it either.
He had a great rookie season, and if you look at any of his tape from that season, you’ll like what you see, I think. The Rams blew their wad in the “Greatest Show on Turf” years, and did not budget for the end of that era. They stunk so bad that they got the #1 pick and took Sam. He became offensive ROY, but the team went 7-9, and their young coach, Steve Spagnuolo, was in over his head. In Bradford’s year w/Rams, their running game was spotty, their receivers were unremarkable, and their defense was second-rate. In absence of any team success, and multiple games missed, the book on Bradford is thin and not flattering. Your skepticism is shared by many, but there is talent and athletic ability there that has been squandered. I agree that the value of this deal remains to be seen, but I have seen enough to believe it was worth the risk.
my fingers are crossed
With tape you can make a _subjective_ case. See the difference? Really, one shouldn’t ignore either tape or numbers.
Top notch article as usual. A lot of questions listed about what CK might do. One question missing is — will he draft a QB at all? Unless, we’re reserved to read the signs and say — Barkley is indeed in a battle for roster space.
im not convinced at all that he drafts a QB….IMO playing one of the best backup QBs in the NFL, Sanchez over a 4th round rookie in his 2nd year, Hardly means that we think Barkley is trash we shouldnt continue to develop…. but we’ll see….
Some of the flaws with Hundley are he was never comfortable in a system. He would definitely need time to develop. But you can fix happy feet. He tends to look at the rush instead of down field. My problem is no one considered that furing his initial time at UCLA mora ran a wco system. I think he integrated ingo a read option to suit Hundley. Mora has always been a wco advocate. I can see how being initially taught to do dump offs and screens and 2 3 progression and tjen second year hit your first read bam or over the top or tuck and run…its inconsistent coaching. He did the same shenanigans with Vick in atl. I think Hundley could be outstanding. Just needs time. Which he wasn’t consistently getting at UCLA to grow.
for me, it seems like enough flaws that its too much of a gamble to take him early in the draft. Do you really want to use a 1st or 2nd pick on a project, or rather as much of a project as he is? All QBs are projects, I get that, but Id rather they use a 3rd if possible but thats just where they sit now with the rebuild. That and the strength of the QBs in this class.
I think there is a better chance of barkley being here next year then most people who think its a foregone conclusion that he will be cut….. chip has been classy about cutting players early enough to land on their feet and find a job… If he is as down on Barkley as people “assume”, I would think he would have just been cut in early march like the rest of the eagles who were cut early enough to find a job…
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Chip knows by now if he wants to keep working with Barkley or Not… If the answer is “NOT”, I would think Barkley would have been cut already..
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Think there is much better use of our draft picks this year then to replace our 3rd string QB, Especially with a pick in the first 4 rounds.. hate this class of QB’s…
That’s the thing. I think they are keeping Barkley as insurance. If a QB they like drops to a point where they feel comfortable drafting him, Barkley will be gone. If not, then he can stay for another year.
Just like the Eagles wanted to draft OL last year, but there was a run on them and we missed out.
maybe, but I need to see that to believe it. chip has yet to “use a player as insurance”.. when he has been ready to move away from a player, up til now he has done it with class, cutting them early in the offseason giving them the best chance at finding a job with a new team…. I have yet to see chip screw with a players future, holding on to him as insurance, and then cut him late in the offseason when its hard to find a job. Im not saying he wont, but I will at least Need to see Chip do it once, before I can assume it will happen
I don’t think it is screwing with Barkley to keep him. We don’t have his replacement on the team. So unless we happen to get a QB, which maybe the Eagles don’t believe right now that they will be drafting a QB, he will be here. But if someone they like starts to drop, they won’t hesitate to pick him up. They could get rid of Bradford since he doesn’t have any guaranteed money in his contract. Not that I think they will. Just who knows?
i dont view QB position like that…. you either believe in a kid and you want to keep developing him, or you dont believe in him and dont believe its worthwhile to continue developing him, in which case taking a flier on ANYONE is better than a #3 QB you are convinced isnt the answer..
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If you are ok with getting rid of Barkley, IMO you should cut him and fill that position with any QB that you can get even an undrafted one..because taking a flier on an undrafted QB is better then holding onto a QB that you already know isnt good enough…
Insurance? For what? If Bradford goes down, we’re back to praying Sanchez doesn’t screw up. If Sanchez goes down, we’ll be writing posts on 2016 QB’s in the draft.
I wonder what the civil suit against Winston does to his draft stock. It can’t be good that the headline on the first day of the draft is “Bucks Make Accused Rapist #1 Pick and Face of the Franchise!”
Something Tells me the Cowboys end up with all of these guys as Jerry Jones follows the Al Davis model of “team building”. I would stop being an Eagles fan if they drafted Winston, no way I could root for a team with that guy and look my daughters in the eye.
Doesn’t sound like it’s anything new. They’ve talked about filing another suit immediately after the FSU code of conduct hearing.
if he actually did anything provably wrong they’d have either taken him to court, or he would have settled. the fact that winston is fine w/ the lawsuit coming out now means that it’s probably frivolous and done to tank his draft stock. the fact that she’s suing now is fishy to say the least, why didn’t she sue months ago?
To be fair, the police department down there botched the investigation and considering that town is all about their sports teams, I think it had more to do with who Winston was rather than lack of evidence.
I don’t know why she waited, but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Here’s a good article about the incident.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0
i don’t what happened, but i don’t think she has enough proof.
I think she did, but the police dept. either missed or lost a lot of the evidence.
she doesn’t even have corroborating evidence from her friends or the dudes at jameis’ place.
i feel bad for the girl, i just don’t know what justice you can get without proof.
She went to hospital right after. Where they found his DNA and others on her clothes. Tox screen found she was 100% sober despite the rufie insinuation. I don’t want to get too far into defending Winston I just think everyone calling him a rapist is overblown. That said you want to believe her. I just wish there was a way to resolve a he say she say situation fairly.
Florida State QB Jameis Winston’s lawyer, David Cornwell, confirmed the civil lawsuit brought against Winston on Thursday was expected.
“This stunt was expected,” Cornwell said. “[The accuser’s] false accusations have already been exposed and rejected six times. This time will be no different. Mr. Winston welcomes the opportunity to clear his name with the truth.” Bucs officials have said the recent lawsuit will have “no effect” on their draft plans.-roto
The more info I picked up on the rape charge, the less I believed that this would dog Winston for life. I don’t defend the kid or condone his behavior, but 18, drinking at a party, encounters a young female who is also drinking. Talking and touching and locking the bathroom door and…I do not dispute the victim’s version, that she did not consent and that her drink was spiked, but the context and a chemical analysis do not lend support to her claim.
Re: the Cowgirls – they seem caught between conflicting philosophies. jerry is the sentimentalist who hires an entourage to keep his stud receiver out of trouble and who sought to have DeMarco Murray resigned. Son Steve is the astute businessman/cold fish who talked dad out of Johnny Football and got a rookie all-pro guard instead, and set the bar on how much they’d offer Murray. I don’t know which one thought Greg Hardy was a good idea – I suspect Jerry, but who knows how long that move was discussed? It just makes it that much easier to hate the franchise.
Even if Hundley is seen as high round 2 player wouldn’t conventional wisdom be take him late first so you get that 5th year?
I think, what we(fans and media) think where players rank(re: what round) can and mostly likely be a lot different than Chip’s grading system anyway.
he wont fall out of round 1… round 2 talk is foolish.
,,
someone will trade back into round 1 to take him… my money is on Andy Reid..
The AR comment made me laugh. I say Andy will NOT take him in round 1, because John Dorsey won’t let him. BUT…round 2 might be the green light for Reid. I think Hundley is there in round 2 and round 3.
if arians takes him he should be lambasted for getting a college offense qb
Well Hundley will bust so hard you will never pick up that 5th year option so I don’t see any reason to reach for him.
I think PFT said there is a second accuser in the complaint, which would be both new and show a pattern of abuse and sociopathic behavior. The question is if you can’t bury the problem because allegations continue to manifest, regardless of how it is ultimately resolved, does a franchise or the NFL want that horrible PR?
If you make Winston the 1st pick, that GM is marrying him. If you are a GM, do you want to stake your career on Winston maturing? If you are an owner, do you want to stake the value of your franchise on it? Especially in Florida where you can carry weapons and shoot anyone you want with no repurcussions. Mark my words, Winston to Tampa is the worst possible combination for the NFL and the best for reporters and paparazzi.
there’s no second accuser, there was a second incident, which i guess never materialized into anything. the mention has nothing to do w/ the first accuser’s case. further all of these incidents are years old.
Posted an article to anon’s post below, and I feel bad for these girls with how this was all handled.
It’s pretty clear at this point that he’s never going to be charged criminally no matter what actually happened. Rape cases are hard to prosecute in general, and the police made sure it would be much harder, either through intent or negligence. The civil case really won’t mean much of anything to the league, and it’s probably going to be settled quietly out of court the day after his NFL check is cashed. None of it will matter if he plays well, unfortunately.
The gamble a GM is making at this point is if they can keep a leash on Winston, like the Cowboys have largely been able to do with Dez, or if he’s going to Josh Gordon himself out of the league.
why wouldn’t he have settled prior to the suit?
with what money?
they could agree that he’d pay $[x] amount once he got $$. he’d have more money going first than if he dropped which is what’s more likely to happen now.
that may be true, but I’m not sure of her or her lawyer’s reasoning. he’s dropping not just for these allegations, but his general behavior and disregard of others. he’s been caught stealing, and saying sexually charged rhetoric in the school cafeteria.
at the very least he’s an asshat, but his pattern of behavior is troubling.
Es for sure an asshat. But so was I at that age (no sexual assault), hopefully he’s put that stuff behind him.
Except that if he settled before the draft, there’s no guarantee on what that does to his draft stock. You can’t promise millions if you get drafted in the 5th round.
I assume settlement would be confidential. You think this is any better (purely from a draft stock pov).
Sure. Anyone can get sued. Only some people get successfully sued. (Almost guaranteed that this will be the PR line from the team that drafts him.)
I’m assuming this isn’t the only woman he had sex with. If he settles, he is inviting them all out of the woodwork for a payday.
it goes beyond this incident, though. People in Florida carry guns and the “Stand your ground Law” lowers the threshold to justify shooting another person to “I felt threatened” whether you actually were or not. Micheal Williams was shot by his own brother 2 years ago in Tampa, if Winston goes there it will not end well. Any woman could shoot him and say “I recognized him as the accused rapist and I felt threatened.” Convicted or not, it doesn’t’ matter in Florida.
As much as we all hate the Cowboys and Jerry Jones, when you compare them to the Browns they’re like a well-oiled machine.
Tampa Bay, I think, is closer to the Cleveland model than the Dallas model.
not a second accuser, a second girl called the hotline, but it’s unclear what happened with that case. surprised that girl hasn’t come out one way or the other.
FS police did everyone a disservice by not investigating.
Took me 10 minutes to figure out the video auto playing on the right column was from this tab. Nothing worse than auto play videos on a webpage
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 4 (OAK): Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon (A+)
Round 3 Pick 27 (DAL): Denzel Perryman, ILB/OLB, Miami (Fla.) (A)
Round 4 Pick 14: Tyler Lockett, WR, Kansas State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 28 (DAL): Rob Havenstein, OT, Wisconsin (A)
Round 5 Pick 9: Durrell Eskridge, FS/SS, Syracuse (A)
Round 5 Pick 20: Damian Swann, CB, Georgia (C)
Round 5 Pick 22 (BALT): Lorenzo Doss, CB, Tulane (B)
Round 6 Pick 20: Andrew Donnal, OT, Iowa (B+)
…boom.
Oakland Raiders @ #4….
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 18 (K.C.): Andrus Peat, OT, Stanford (B+)
Round 1 Pick 19 (CLE): Todd Gurley, RB, Georgia (A+)
Round 2 Pick 3: Eric Rowe, CB/FS, Utah (B)
Round 2 Pick 17 (K.C.): Carl Davis, DT/DE, Iowa (A-)
Round 3 Pick 4: Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Missouri (A+)
Round 3 Pick 13 (CLE): Paul Dawson, OLB/ILB, TCU (A-)
Round 3 Pick 16 (K.C.): Clive Walford, TE, Miami (Fla.) (A)
Round 4 Pick 6 (WASH): Alex Carter, CB, Stanford (B+)
Round 5 Pick 2 (TENN): Henry Anderson, DE, Stanford (A)
Round 5 Pick 4: Leterrius Walton, DT, Central Michigan (B+)
Round 6 Pick 3: Cody Wichmann, OG, Fresno State (B+)
Round 7 Pick 4: Antwan Goodley, WR, Baylor (C+)
…..That was after a trade out of #4 overall… they must be salivating over the idea of Jameis or Mariota slipping.
Havenstein in the 3rd or later I’d be happy with.
Counterpoint: Mufasa is the one that suffers a, uh, “career-ending injury”, after tutoring his replacement on how to do his job. Sounds like a really accurate nickname, there, Chip.
It was interesting last year that mk never wore the headset. wonder if there is anything to read into that.
I think the most interesting part of that discussion is how it was widely assumed that Casey Matthews being less capable athletically meant that he wasn’t smart enough to wear the headset either. There’s no reason to make your best athlete your play caller.
Except you want the play caller to be on the field as much as possible. And you want your best athlete on the field as much as possible. If your best athlete can handle the job, that is ideal.
If. Sure. I just think it’s completely ridiculous to think that Casey Matthews and Acho were incapable of calling plays simply because they ran a slower 40 than Kendricks. I mean, what if Acho were the best at calling plays, but couldn’t get on the field due to his limitations?
If Chip drafts a QB in the first 3 rounds, he needs to play at some point….if it is later than that, sure he can be our #3, we can take time to develop him and see if we keep him or trade him for value….but we cannot use a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rd pick on a QB who never plays since the only way he would garner enough value to trade for good return would be if he shows what he can do on the field, in real games. We have too many question marks on this team that need to be addressed with those high picks.
Ahh but no more important position than qb. If he sees his guy take him. It’s good to have to decide between good qbs.
I agree, but then Chip has to develop & play him at some point….cannot let him stay on the bench and get nothing out of that high pick. He took Barkley with a 4th rd pick and then never played him and it has turned out to be a waste of a pick….cannot do that again since we have too many other important holes to fill and goals to achieve…
It was a 4th rd pick…
Schneider, Ozzie, Bellicheck will all miss more than they hit.
Does not change the point I was making….if Chip is going to take a QB in the first 3 rds, he better be right on the pick and he better play him at some point or it is a wasted pick…we cannot afford to waste high picks. Obviously, the draft is very uncertain and so some picks will hit and some will miss, but the point is, if he is going to demand all the power, he needs to maximize the value they get out of the draft and any failures are on him. I do not want to hear excuses trying to cover up for Chip if he makes bad picks….he demanded to be the man so now he needs to deliver.
Schneider, Ozzie, Bellicheck will all miss more than they hit.
LOL…so when Chip Kelly wins a SB, he can join that group and be excused for more misses than hits in the draft…sound good?
Ok, now back to reality….Chip has not won shinola yet at this level and needs to deliver to prove he knows what he is doing and can get us that SB win we all want….so again if he is going to pick a QB in the first 3 rds, he better be right and that QB better be playing for us sometime during his stint here or it will be a wasted pick…
We cannot afford high picks being wasted…I understand some will be just by the nature of the draft, but if it becomes a pattern and the team fails to achieve its goal of winning a SB, then Chip needs to be fired and the search will continue for the person who can get it done…
He demanded all the power, he got it and thus it is all on him from now on…no more blame shifting or throwing Howie under the bus even though we all know Chip had major input into the recent drafts…they will be his picks and it will be his team. Hopefully, he will get it done.
Super bowl or bust?
Man I’m glad I view fandom differently.
I just don’t get your “well if it’s a QB in the first 3 rounds that bust it’s a major indictment”.
What’s it matter Hundley and Jalen Collins both bust? One is worse because he’s a QB?
If he drafts Leonard Williams and Chris Christie frames him for murder and he never plays a snap, the result would be the exact same as a QB who never plays.
1. I think you seriously underestimate the draft disappointment failure rate
2. I don’t get your fetishization of QB’s that bust in the top 100.
“The draft is really a crap shoot…” – Chip Kelly
“I’m wrong 50% of the time…” – Scot McCloughan
There are several constants that render your concern unnecessary. Training: Kelly’s protocol for working out his team is one of his coolest innovations. All 90 guys going in will be working continuously getting more reps than some other teams projected starters. Injuries: They are random but certain. Everyone in Eagle country is hoping that Bradford gets a pass this season, but realistically, Sanchez is going to see the field this coming season. Draft order: I don’t pretend to know what Kelly will do, but picking 20 in a draft very shallow at the QB position more or less assures that a QB will not be his pick in round 1. Now if he wants to move up to get Mariota, and that endeavor entails trading Bradford, which I find difficult to envision, then Mariota would by necessity be starting pretty early in the season. But if Kelly takes Petty in round 2 or Grayson in round 3, are you going to squawk if the guy is 3 on the depth chart? Your previous comment that Barkley was a wasted pick may turn out to be true, but who can say at this point? I’m not encouraged by the fact that Barkley has remained behind Sanchez, but he’s still on the team. A 2nd or 3rd QB pick I would see as an optimistic bet by Kelly that the athlete will develop. I don’t think it changes the overall dynamic of the draft – that the best are wrong more than they’re right. And what if Kelly meets your criteria by getting eventual starters in the first 3 rounds, but he passes on Grayson in the third to take a safety, and Grayson turns out to Bruce Arians QB in waiting behind Carson Palmer? The Eagles could have had Bridgewater after moving back in round 1 last year. Did Kelly or Howie blow the pick on MS2?
Personally, I’d rather Kelly take some calculated risks in the early rounds and, in the later rounds, find some reliable players who could turn into starters. If Kelly thinks he sees a QB that he can win with, and he is within his grasp, I sure hope he takes him.
We need to save those 4th rounders for the next Casey Mathews.
its really only wasted because sanchez wasn’t injured and we didn’t need the 3rd qb.
what if we did?
who would we have?
based on what youre saying here is you value need picks over the “need” to find a franchise QB. Teams take over a decade to find them and more, its not something you can just ignore or your team will be mired in mediocrity as its ceiling for far too long. In terms of Chips future, if he does want to win it all he better find his.
its far more important that they pan out as players esp starters per QB than it is for them to have to start or play in their first season. I agree though the team has many other needs to be addressed to have the luxury to store away a QB with potential. The guy picked in top 3 can certainly sit a year with our current QB situation, only minimal loss of value there. Plenty of rookies dont play a lot in first year. Also, I like the gamble of a QB learning and waiting simply because I dont like the Bradford experiment. If it fails and hes hurt again, they turn to Sanchez, ugh. Id rather know a guy with other potential is waiting, it will ease my pain.
Byron Jones made the rounds today at all the ESPN shows. He is the ONLY DB i would want to draft in the first two rounds… I like Rowe and Rollins, but I doubt they will be the player I like the most when its our turn to draft in the first two rounds… If we end up trading back to th end of round 2, early 3, I would take Rowe, with Rollins as the 3rd option if they were still available(longshot), but Byron Jones is the only kid Id want top 50…. He reminds me of a high character version of Justin Gilbert, but with more physicality and versatility to play safety..with Byrons versatility, I may be inclined take him over Wayans..
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You can tell this kid is a sweet heart, just a good kid, raised well. He gets knocked for only playing 7 games as a senior, but who cares when he has years of safety experience and CB experience?..
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I dont think drafting DB is our biggest need, but if they came away with this kid I wouldnt be upset at all,.. Kids going to be a real nice NFL player if he lands with good coaching staff, he certainly has some freak athleticism to become as good as he wants.. sounds like a good, dedicated kid…
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Chip believes in his coaches, so I think we will always take High ceiling prospect over Polish and trust that our coaching staff can turn them into players who reach that ceiling
“ESPN’s Adam Caplan considers Bryce Petty of Baylor the “favorite” to be the third quarterback drafted.
Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota will be Nos. 1 and 2. Petty is the favorite to be No. 3 — perhaps as early as a the high second round — while UCLA’s Brett Hundley and Colorado State’s Garrett Grayson could battle to be this year’s No. 4. Caplan calls Grayson a candidate to “go higher than most expect.”-roto
I don’t think it’s possible to be a weak QB class with what’s on the table. It’s at least as strong as 2013, and by some judgment, stronger than 2014. It’s weak in terms of total numbers, but you have a legit no.1, a prospect-y no. 2. That’s not really chopped liver.
The point is to get a starting QB caliber player. Not every year has one of those, even when there are many QB on offer.
The Slave of the Husband
Trying to find ahead to researching added from you afterward!…
The Ships’s Voyages
I feel technology just makes it even worse. Now there is a channel to by no means treatment, now there will not become a prospect for them to find out.