Special Teams

Posted: August 26th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 166 Comments »

How do you develop a good Special Teams unit?

There is no magic answer. If it was as simple as getting the right coach, Bobby April would have done a much better job in 2011 and 2012. It isn’t just talent. Jeremy Maclin was a great returner in college and very good receiver in the NFL, but he was lost as a returner in the pros. Lost. It isn’t just about time and energy. Plenty of coaches have tried to emphasize STs, only to see their team struggle in the kicking game.

There is a combination of factors. You do need the right coach. You do need the right players. And the team does have to embrace STs as a key part of the game.

Chip Kelly hired Dave Fipp to be his STs coach. Fipp had a good background and seemed like a good hire. Kelly tried to add the right players in 2013. Unfortunately, the results just weren’t there.

Kelly didn’t get discouraged. He got Darren Sproles, Bryan Braman and Chris Maragos. Kelly drafted Josh Huff. He found a gem in UDFA Trey Burton. Kelly signed Chris Prosinski during the season. And the Eagles had the best STs in the NFL.

The Eagles STs might be even better this year. Kenjon Barner has 2 return TDs already this summer and he’s the backup to Sproles. Raheem Mostert has electric speed, but hasn’t been able to return a kickoff yet. Huff and free agent Ryan Mathews look to be the primary KORs right now. The Eagles do have to replace Brandon Boykin, who was very valuable. But they have Seyi Ajirotutu, Eric Rowe, Walter Thurmond, Jerome Couplin, Jordan Hicks, Nelson Agholor, E.J. Biggers and some others to add to the mix. There should be no shortage of talent.

Kelly preaches the importance of STs play. That paid off last year. It could also be a big help this year with the Eagles having key players back and some new talent in town.

* * * * *

Josh Paunil wrote a good piece for Birds 24/7 on the Eagles STs and how they are performing so far this preseason.

Make sure to check that out to better understand what goes on when blocking for a returner or trying to cover a kick. There’s a lot more to STs than just effort.

166 Comments on “Special Teams”

1 Charlie Kelly said at 9:18 PM on August 26th, 2015:
i love having the best STs unit.
Barners TDs were cool, but id like to hear more about the blocking that lead to them. Had to be some good play there.
2 Ark87 said at 9:52 PM on August 26th, 2015:
Totally agree, Barner gets the play under his name, and kudos for the vision and all that, but it wasn’t the running that stood out on those plays, that blocking was great, and it’s pretty consistent.
3 GEAGLE said at 4:38 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Reynolds made an important block early in Barners punt return that sprung him… You can see after making the key block Reynolds throws his hands up quickily to show he wasn’t holding, and once Reynolds sealed off his man and Barner got by, all the other blocks fell into place Beautifully…
4 bdbd20 said at 9:51 PM on August 26th, 2015:
I think it’s really a mindset and it must come from the head coach. A lot of players seem to view ST as a temporary stop on the way to a starting spot, at which point they will never play ST again.
AR seemed to forget about the importance of ST at times during his tenure. I still vividly remember Greg Lewis trying to field a punt in Green Bay. I really don’t know why Reid didn’t just send Westy back there to call a FC.
5 D3FB said at 5:45 AM on August 27th, 2015:
In fairness, Riley was the return man on a few punts last year.
6 bill said at 8:17 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I definitely think it has something to do with #culture. You select guys who love to play football and/or approach it as a professional, and you get more players who *want* to play STs. And that’s more than half the battle. Too many (can’t say I completely blame them) NFL players view STs as a punishment or a chore. That’s going to impact performance, unless you keep a dedicated STs unit on your roster, but that obviously has enough other costs that no one does it.
7 Bert's Bells said at 9:54 PM on August 26th, 2015:
Forgot how good Boykin was on punt coverage units.
8 laeagle said at 1:23 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I was more sad to see him go for that than for his CB skills. He had a down year as CB last year compared to 2013, but man could that guy down a freaking punt. Almost every time.
9 A_T_G said at 10:57 PM on August 26th, 2015:
Theory: the special teams unit is the cheapest, and therefore was the easiest for Chip to remake. Because of this, last year’s special teams play was a taste of what we will see from all three units, possibly this year.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
10 EagleNebula said at 11:16 PM on August 26th, 2015:
http://castletv.net/wp-content/forumuploads/alieh/2015/04/talk-amongst-yourselves.gif
11 Mitchell said at 6:12 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I believe you mean Disqus.
12 Cafone said at 1:06 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I have the first overall pick in my fantasy league and I’m thinking of going with Eagles DST
13 Dragon_Eagle said at 5:15 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Over Tebow? Are you mad?
14 ian_no_2 said at 4:02 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I think Chip said once he likes the way Green Bay built its roster, with all the players drafted or originally signed by the team but the Eagles’ success at stockpiling veteran journeymen for special teams (Braman, Maragos, Prosinski, Biggers, Brad Jones, Dorenbos, Ajirotutu) uses up roster spots which could go to those types of developmental players. I’m not saying this is wrong because I want the Eagles to lead the league in special teams every year. Where this becomes a problem this year is in the secondary, where I think they should go heavy in numbers because so many other teams are so thin. I don’t think they should let Denzel Rice, Jerome Couplin, or Ed Reynolds go, because they will likely land elsewhere and there will be slim pickings if they need to replace them later. Jaylen Watkins I’m really not sure about right now, but he can cover. I’d like to see Diaheem Watkins make the club since Brad Jones couldn’t get a pass rush going on the outside against Baltimore, but Curry could get most of the OLB backup snaps perhaps with Braman mixing in.
15 Fufina said at 4:52 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Well we Chip has had limited drafts to build and develop talent. A system like the Packers is the way you want to do things but that takes 5+ years of stability to make it happen. Already we are seeing better special teams performances by young drafted guys like Reynolds,Rowe, Hicks, Watkins and Burton. Those guys need to grow into star special teamers and quality backups/fringe starters to then allow the next crop of draft picks in the next 2 years to be the developmental non dressing guys on the roster.
16 ian_no_2 said at 6:07 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Burton has become one of their top STers, and the others you mentioned are doing some things well in pre-season. I agree with everything you said but if Reynolds is going to grow into a star special teamer you want it to happen in Philly and he’ll likely be poached off the PS.
17 Fufina said at 9:26 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I think cut down is going to ‘surprise’ some bear reporters. Think some of the ‘special team locks’ will not make it through when the team keeps higher upside guys who look like they can be quality special teamers and offer more depth on game day from a playing perspective.
I think Reynolds makes the roster, he has looked decent in special teams duties and is the only deep tradition Free Safety on the roster and having that optionality is worth it for the Eagles.
18 Avery Greene said at 9:28 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Does that mean Prosinski gets cut in your opinion?
19 ian_no_2 said at 11:16 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Prosinski had more special teams tackles per game last year I think than Maragos, who led the team, and has been solid at safety.
20 GEAGLE said at 4:31 PM on August 27th, 2015:
No way… Doubt they keep both Couplin and Reynolds which is essentially what it would mean to cut Prosinski… proz is a Monster on ST, I wouldn’t bet against him making the roster
21 sonofdman said at 9:43 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Maybe they wouldn’t be so surprised if they spent more time reporting on the team and less time reporting on bears.
22 GEAGLE said at 4:30 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Right now I def have Reynolds over Couplin, but that could change depending on the next two games… What’s helped Reynolds is In games that he was making plays on Defense, he also made sure to make some plays on ST, counted at least 2 tackles and an important block at the beginning of Barners return for a TD last week..
..
Couplin did a few nice things as well, but I don’t see how anyone can put him ahead of Reynolds after these past two games,.. I do think how kids perform in the next two preseason games will be the main component in roster selection… If Reynolds shows up in the next two games, doubt Couplin can pass him
23 Anders said at 7:02 AM on August 27th, 2015:
The Packers system only really work at WR and having Aaron Rodgers.
24 Ark87 said at 7:49 AM on August 27th, 2015:
O-line is a solid unit as well, but your point stands
25 RobNE said at 8:48 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Right when you have Favre and then Rodgers, you can say we’ll not going to be big FA spenders.
26 Anders said at 7:22 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Also Rice was a UDFA in this draft and its not like he has been super great, same with Couplin who we picked of the Lions PS and he still hasnt really showed anything and Reynolds most likely makes the team as 5th safety
27 ian_no_2 said at 11:14 AM on August 27th, 2015:
“Jerome Couplin graded out well in coverage and against the run. He made four tackles and didn’t miss any.” against Baltimore: PFF paraphrased by Gowton at BGN. I don’t recall you criticizing Jason Peters for being UDFA. Rice had a rough game against the Ravens but was a standout in camp.
28 Anders said at 12:27 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Jason Peters wouldn’t have been poached by any team after his first tc
29 ian_no_2 said at 5:02 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Last summer there was a consensus on this board and elsewhere that UDFA Burton would get poached.
30 RobNE said at 6:38 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Seems like an inefficiency Chip has exploited. As ATG notes below, it’s relatively cheap to fix. Chip has decided that keeping the backup who is better at ST over one who might be slightly better as a backup is worthwhile. It’s all betting on whether that backup will see much playing time due to injuries.
31 CrackSammich said at 9:12 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Coaches have been doing that forever. I think the difference is that Chip makes special teams players priority free agents.
32 mtn_green said at 9:52 AM on August 27th, 2015:
This. Every off season he adds a handful of ST aces and pays them more than other teams would.
33 eagleyankfan said at 8:21 AM on August 27th, 2015:
It’s real, it’s fun, it wasn’t real fun. Having the best special teams is real, watching them is fun. But until that = SB, I don’t care. I don’t know where NE ranked or Seattle or any team in the final 4 with their special team play. Top 10? Ok, fine, let’s have a top 10 special teams.
….
Don’t get me wrong. I love that CK puts an emphasis on it. It’s great the players buy into that 110%. It’s fun to watch. Unless your D is solid and O scores(and not turn the ball over), special teams gets minimize in the scheme of things.
34 Avery Greene said at 8:37 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I think my view is whether it’s going to win us a couple games this year. Two games can make the difference between 12-4 with a bye and a home playoff game vs. 10-6 and playing in the Wild Card round.
So no, ST won’t win you a Superbowl on it’s own – but in conjunction with good play from the offense and defense it might be the one thing that tips the scales in our favor.
I think it can win us a couple games. It gave us a chance to win the SF game, and good returns puts the offense in a better position to score.
35 RobNE said at 8:47 AM on August 27th, 2015:
NE has Tom Brady and a warlock for a head coach. We need to do some things to get into a SB that may not involve having a franchise QB.
36 EagleNebula said at 9:17 AM on August 27th, 2015:
And they cheat
37 RobNE said at 1:46 PM on August 27th, 2015:
that goes without saying
38 ICDogg said at 11:35 AM on August 27th, 2015:
There was at least one year where the Chargers were #1 in both offense and defense DVOA and still lost a number of games because their special teams were so bad.
39 eagleyankfan said at 12:31 PM on August 27th, 2015:
that’s a rare feat in deed to be number 1 in offense and defense…
40 RobNE said at 12:40 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I remember I think SF was one in both years ago when the Vikings beat them early in the playoffs. I don’t know why I remember that.
41 eagleyankfan said at 12:48 PM on August 27th, 2015:
that’s why you just make it to the playoffs .. and let the chips fall where they may …
42 CrackSammich said at 9:16 AM on August 27th, 2015:
That Fran Duffy Vine account is a gold mine.
43 Avery Greene said at 9:19 AM on August 27th, 2015:
I’m going to beat this drum everyday, but someone needs to ask the NFL why Albert McClellan hasn’t been fined for his gut punch. I’m starting to get mad about this. It’s clear and it’s videotaped. What is the issue that this hasn’t been done yet?
44 ICDogg said at 11:34 AM on August 27th, 2015:
In order for a player to be penalized by the league, a team usually has to complain about it, and I don’t know if the Eagles have done so.
45 Avery Greene said at 11:37 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Wow. I didn’t know that. I figured if you do something that’s fine-worthy, they would just give it. This is disappointing.
46 suthrneagle said at 3:29 PM on August 27th, 2015:
It`s more than disappointing. It`s disrespectful of the Eagles to the player not to complain.
47 Anders said at 2:54 PM on August 27th, 2015:
He might have been fined without it getting reported
48 Avery Greene said at 3:07 PM on August 27th, 2015:
True, I’ve just been following on this site where there’s no mention of it.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/fines-suspensions/fines/
49 Tumtum said at 10:07 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Very true Tommy. Another thing to note is that most of these guys look like they can contribute to the team as back up on O and D. Even the ST aces that are obviously going to make this team for ST actually look like good back ups.
People are clamoring for Braman to have opportunities at OLB. Huff IMO should be a top 3 wr. Barner did some nice things on offense. The list goes on.
In 13′ I was worried that ST was prioritized to the detriment of depth elsewhere. Now it seems like we are gettin some ST studs that actually improve the rest of the team as well.
50 anon said at 10:15 AM on August 27th, 2015:
ST guys are getting coached as well nice to see them improving, be interesting to see if braman plays w/ 1/2s this weekend
51 GEAGLE said at 4:35 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I really like Barner in a Sproles role, catching passes as a quasi WR who also gets some carries mixed in… I think he makes the roster but won’t be activated early in the season
52 BobSmith77 said at 10:39 AM on August 27th, 2015:
“Corey Seidman
‏@CoreySeidmanCSN
78 NFL players have torn an ACL during the last 3 preseasons, according to @ACLrecoveryCLUB”
Good thing the Eagles have 2 more preseason games.
53 anon said at 11:55 AM on August 27th, 2015:
think its a function of the new cba?
54 BobSmith77 said at 12:03 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Interesting question. Not sure. It would help to have a longer trend going back several years for starters.
55 Iskar36 said at 12:22 PM on August 27th, 2015:
So those numbers include ACLS torn prior to the season, so in preseason games, TC or just during the offseason. With that in mind, that’s a little less than 1 player per team per offseason which includes the entire 90 man roster. While you always would love to see less, that number doesnt seem to be very big all things considered.
For an eagles spin, Eagles have two players this year (Shepherd and Long) and if I recall correctly, they had 3 players tear their ACL in Chips first season (Maclin, Benn, Phillips). I don’t remember if we had any last year.
56 Ark87 said at 12:33 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I believe we lost Long to an ACL tear last year as well, last year Benn ended up getting waived with an injury settlement, did he re-tear his ACL? It might have just been Long.
57 RogerPodacter said at 1:25 PM on August 27th, 2015:
when you count that players that DO get hurt end up getting replaced, and other minor, bottom-of-the-roster turnover, you could probably argue that teams have a lot more than 90 players in the offseason. that just makes the average ACLS per player even lower.
58 Anders said at 12:29 PM on August 27th, 2015:
You read Mike tainers new article on how teams can cut acl injuries and how the new cba is causing more injurious
59 RobNE said at 12:40 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I did not, how does the new CBA cause more injuries?
60 Anders said at 2:53 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Less time to focus on warms ups, less time for strength training etc. You should go read it
61 EagleNebula said at 10:47 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Off topic but this was too good to not share… Joe Baner=Twitter GOLD!
He’s actually been pretty bullishly pro-birds.
https://twitter.com/joebanner13/status/636910054361427968
62 Ark87 said at 11:45 AM on August 27th, 2015:
Joe Banner is surprisingly good with that sort of thing (for a guy that supposedly is bad with people and no one likes), probably better than he is at being a team president/GM and such. I actually always enjoyed his segments on PE.com (morning Joe or cup of Joe or w/e). Once he’s wrapped up in a team and all the politics he can be a D-bag. But he generally has smart opinions and a valuable insider perspective.
63 GEAGLE said at 4:24 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Well said
64 anon said at 11:57 AM on August 27th, 2015:
so is aldon smith just out of the league or what?
65 Nailed it! said at 12:17 PM on August 27th, 2015:
http://overthecap.com/xxplosive-by-dr-dre-pete-carroll-and-chip-kelly/
Very interesting read on what Kelly is trying to build.
Some I agree with others I find he is reaching but if you have some time to kill take a look.
66 Avery Greene said at 12:36 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Yeah very interesting. One of the few NFL guys who is putting the Eagles/Kelly in the conversation as a good coach/organization that will have success. Most just say gimmick and that CK won’t last.
67 unhinged said at 12:56 PM on August 27th, 2015:
That writer is really bullish on Tebow. As Shooter’s son said to Coach Dale in Hoosiers, referring to Dale’s hiring of the alcoholic: I’m just not seein’ it.
68 RobNE said at 1:45 PM on August 27th, 2015:
but wait till Tebow runs the picket fence play
69 unhinged said at 2:23 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Hah! Some memorable lines from that flick.
70 Sean Stott said at 12:21 PM on August 27th, 2015:
You can’t count on year-to-year ST performance. It’s pretty random.
71 Ark87 said at 12:39 PM on August 27th, 2015:
On the stat line looking at TD’s and FG% etc, the sample size just isn’t big enough to reliably average out the outliers. The standard deviation is pretty large. That said, outside of statistics, this special teams is dominant beyond the score card, it shows on tape beyond the guy running down the field for a TD.
72 Avery Greene said at 12:39 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I think the difference here is that CK practices special teams way more than any other team. It’s usually an afterthought between focusing on offense and defense.
73 HawaiianEagle said at 1:37 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I don’t think CK counts on it – that is why he is always focusing on it and doing the necessary things to improve the chances of his ST being above average/great.
74 GEAGLE said at 4:22 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I don’t believe that at all!! Nothing random about our ST excellence…
..
Fiop is said to be masterful at ST game planning, and Chip puts a bigger priority on ST play in terms of player selection for our Roster that I see NOTHING random or Flukey about our ST excellence and I expect to continue to dominate ST as long as we can keep “Crazy Eyes” Fipper here…
…
This isn’t a team that achieved ST greatness and is now relaxing on its Laurells, we had a dominant ST and what we do? Add more talent to what already was the best ST unit in the game, signing one of the Top ST players in tutu, and potentially adding Kenjon Barner AND explosive big bruiser Ryan Mathews to our KR team..
..
We retained all our ST talent and added to it.. Braman, Maragos, Prosinski, Tutu, Burton these are guys who could he ST captains competing for ST pro bowls on other teams,,,, it’s like we are building a ST all star team.. heck we haven’t even seen Sproles or Huff on ST yet this year, when Sproles returns kicks, Barner can move to Gunner and try and replace Boykin (hopefully)… Barner can do more on Teams then just returning kicks… Nolan Carrol is a quality gunner who played ST for coach Fipper in Miami..
..
I have never seen a ST consistently this good in all 4 phases and I don’t expect this to end anytime soon.. We should remain at the top of the ST rankings from years to come, and ST can be the ultimate X factor when playing against the top teams as an underdog… if a few teams are better then us, ST play can close the gap and be the difference in games against the Pack and Hawks…
75 Avery Greene said at 12:38 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Looks like Joe Banner is headed to ESPN.
https://twitter.com/SI_PeterKing/status/636937829529071616
76 cliff-Y U on a knee, 99?! said at 12:42 PM on August 27th, 2015:
What? i love Dirty Joe, or at least making fun of him, but that man WAS NOT made for TV.
77 LongShlong said at 1:22 PM on August 27th, 2015:
are you facking homo?
78 the DONALD said at 2:03 PM on August 27th, 2015:
what if he is? do you have a problem with that?
Tommy, whens this guy/girl going to get the boot?
79 GEAGLE said at 4:12 PM on August 27th, 2015:
When will you stop taking troll bait, hook line and sinker and encourage this pathetic chump?
80 the DONALD said at 8:54 AM on August 28th, 2015:
true… its hard sometimes
81 LongShlong said at 6:41 PM on August 28th, 2015:
Yes I have a problem with it.
82 TypicalDouche said at 4:08 PM on August 27th, 2015:
First off what does it matter if he is or isnt? Second i would go as far to say that anyone that uses the word “facking” is a real bitch, which you are.
83 LongShlong said at 6:41 PM on August 28th, 2015:
Being a homo is facking disgusting.
84 GEAGLE said at 4:11 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I would have actually liked to see Chip and Maynowitz bring Banner in as a consultant especially now that we have a ton of young talent that we don’t want to lose when their rookie deals expire… Would have loved to have THE Ultimate “BAD GUYS”, Joe Banners imputed to strategically plan how we will go about keeping all this young talent long term..
..
You Need people like Banner so you can point your fingers and say That’s The.Bad Guy!!!!
85 Avery Greene said at 1:12 PM on August 27th, 2015:
BG clowning before practice.
https://instagram.com/p/65DoAotP-k/
86 A_T_G said at 3:56 PM on August 27th, 2015:
BG’s account, but that is Barner. That doesn’t look like a guy who is worried he is on the roster bubble.
Along the same thought, Spuds recently had Rasheed Bailey and Matt Barkley in studio for interviews. I can’t decide if he is telling us we should get used to these guys, or helping us say good bye.
87 Avery Greene said at 1:19 PM on August 27th, 2015:
You can watch Saric play right now.
http://htv4.hrt.hr/
88 tomw said at 1:23 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Joe Gibbs made it a point to have the best special teams units, when he was winning Super Bowls.
89 ICDogg said at 1:47 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Acho’s locker is empty. EDIT: Acho has been waived/injured after thumb surgery, according to a league source.
90 Avery Greene said at 1:55 PM on August 27th, 2015:
https://twitter.com/ZBerm/status/636957973751963648
91 anon said at 2:09 PM on August 27th, 2015:
damn, they do no fuck around def. though he was 2nd backup after Meco, looks like they’re going to keep brad jones and cut the rest of those guys.
92 GEAGLE said at 4:07 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Not surprised..,
..
My expectation was The BIG 3, Jordan Hicka and Brad Jones because of his OLB versatility…, you can’t keep more then 5 ILBs… I like Acho and Najee but no realistic chance of making this roster… This was always going to happen whether he had thumb surgery or not…
…
When Acho clears waivers and reverts to us, do they put him on IR for the year? Or release him with an injury settlement?
93 sonofdman said at 2:17 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Yet another obstacle to overcome on his way to Canton.
94 ICDogg said at 2:31 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Darryl Dawkins died today at age 58.
95 Avery Greene said at 2:34 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I just saw that come across twitter. RIP.
96 P_P_K said at 3:36 PM on August 27th, 2015:
He was fun to watch.
97 ICDogg said at 2:36 PM on August 27th, 2015:
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CNb1fVqUkAAuNNE.mp4
98 GEAGLE said at 4:05 PM on August 27th, 2015:
RIP Chocolate Thunder….
99 ICDogg said at 2:33 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Evan Mathis contract: $1M SB $1.5M base $750K in per-game RB 55% snaps: $187,500 65%: $350k 75%: $562,500 85%: $750k Max value: $4M— Field Yates (@FieldYates) August 27, 2015
100 RobNE said at 2:44 PM on August 27th, 2015:
$750k per game roster bonus would be $12M. Must be $750k total divided by 16 for each game?
so he turned down $5.5 to make at most $4.0. ok then.
101 A_T_G said at 3:44 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I read it the same way, but reading carefully, it is correct. $750k in per-game bonuses means he can earn that much total in that category. That little “in” makes an $11.25 million difference.
102 HawaiianEagle said at 4:34 PM on August 27th, 2015:
But – he is on a contender…
103 Avery Greene said at 2:41 PM on August 27th, 2015:
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/636971474423689216
104 Fufina said at 3:02 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I love how people complain about how Chip only drafts ‘clean’ football focused guys, but it is nice to go through and offseason without a single suspension, for anything from drugs to criminality.
105 P_P_K said at 3:35 PM on August 27th, 2015:
It’s good to root for the guys on the white hats.
p.s. Guys of all races in white hats.
106 A_T_G said at 3:49 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I am going you assume you mean metaphorical white hats, and not these…
107 Crus57 said at 6:13 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Just ‘cos they put a chamber pot on their heads, doesn’t make it a hat.
108 Avery Greene said at 10:12 PM on August 27th, 2015:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03283/white-hat-hacker_3283736b.jpg
109 GEAGLE said at 4:03 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Yeah I used to be ignorant in my younger days, not wanting a team of choir boys, but I got smarter as I matured and see tremendous value in the importance chip puts on selecting character guys…
….
Injuries are such a major part of how each season unfolds… Everyone will have to put up with at least 4-5 injuries each offseason.. And that’s a big enough loss… On top of having to deal with all the injuries teams have players who need to serve 4 to 16 game suspensions because of poor character, also known as getting arrested and failing drug tests/trying to cheat…
…
It’s disgusting how many players have to serve penalties for arrests or failed drug tests each year, a 4game penalty for a drug test is no different then an injury causing you to lose a guy for 4 weeks..
..
It’s great that chip puts so much importance on sports science injury prevention and I think it’s a big advantage to eliminate losing players to suspensions from the equation… If our rosters are at the top in terms of least amount of missed games due to suspensions AND we end up being one of the least injured teams, that’s a massive advantage.. So while we don’t get to take advantage of elite scumbags being cut from teams like Picking up Junior Gallette for only half a mil, we are better off having a high character culture eliminating suspensions from the equation, long term it should be a massive advantage…, if our players don’t get suspended and we can suffer less injuries then most teams that’s a big time advantage that should serve us well in the future…
…
So now, I have come to appreciate and be proud of having a team full of “Choir boys”…. just try telling our choir boys, Cox, Jordan, Bennie that they are soft, good luck with that…
110 GEAGLE said at 3:47 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Well I guess this is why we were seeing reports of Bryant putting on a ton of muscle and was down to like 4% body fat… This is also why the steelers have been talking up Markus Wheaton as their #2 WR even tho everyone knew Bryant was better… Teams find out about these failed drugs tests long before they are reported by the media
111 Anders said at 4:32 PM on August 27th, 2015:
The 4% body fat is impossible for anybody. Not even bodybuilders get under 8%
112 Insomniac said at 4:40 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Yes they do. 4% isn’t impossible considering that Bryant probably has been fit for most of his life.
113 Neil said at 4:50 PM on August 27th, 2015:
No, 4% is appropriate for anorexics or someone at death’s door. Frankly, anything less than 10% is unhealthy in general and will hurt a professional athlete’s ability to perform. Something like 7% is doable but only makes sense if your job is to look a certain way, like muscle men and fashion models.
114 Neil said at 5:02 PM on August 27th, 2015:
http://www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/
How football players look slimmer than the man who is an example of 15%? Some and maybe even most WRs and CBs look like 10-12.
I had weight issues my entire adolescence. I looked like an emaciated African child from those charity commercials and you could not pinch fat from my belly. I never got below 7.
115 Flying B-Dawk said at 5:05 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I wrestled in high school and there were more than a few kids on the team that were under 7%. The lowest I remember was 4%.
116 Neil said at 5:08 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Fat is always going to be lower in teenagers as a general rule. Any kid at 4 is not healthy in my opinion. Let’s see how that kid does in any professional sport, let alone the NFL, even after he’s grown up and surely not 4% anymore.
117 Flying B-Dawk said at 5:12 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I think part of it is, it’s a percentage, not a total volume. So if two people have the same amount of fat, but one has a ton of muscle weight, the muscular one will have a low body fat percentage.
118 Neil said at 5:14 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Absolutely. But that does not change the fact that such a low amount of fat on your body is bad for you and you can’t see NFL players’ veins.
119 Neil said at 5:16 PM on August 27th, 2015:
AND this is why a girl getting below 10% is virtually committing suicide.
120 Bert's Bells said at 5:25 PM on August 27th, 2015:
As far I can tell it’s impossible to get below 35%, amirite?
121 sonofdman said at 5:49 PM on August 27th, 2015:
That’s been my experience!
122 Neil said at 6:13 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Ew.
123 A_T_G said at 6:40 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Not without giving up beer. In other words, yep, you’re right.
124 Mitchell said at 6:21 PM on August 27th, 2015:
It would be silly for them to be so shredded you can see veins. That’s too much weight to lose. Imagine a 185 lb player that is 15% body fat. They lose 10% fat, they are down to the 160s.
125 Mitchell said at 6:19 PM on August 27th, 2015:
4% is fed not healthy and you can’t sustain it for more than a day of a bodybuilding competition. It takes too much work.
126 DJH said at 5:26 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I went to school w/ Corey Fleischer, PA state champ at 160 lbs in 1994, and it was said he got down to 3%.
127 Fufina said at 6:01 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Think the issue here is how you measure and present your fat %. Different techniques and systems can report hugely different numbers.
If you calculate your value from just your physical measurements (height/weight etc) you can report values that are in the 3-5% range however these are not ‘real’ or reflective of the actual amount of fat in your body.
Adult males have 3-5% ‘Essential Fat’. This is almost impossible to loose, is not free in the body and is vital to basic bodily functions and is held within cells and organ structures. After that even elite athletes hold another 5-10% of body fat.
128 Insomniac said at 5:06 PM on August 27th, 2015:
This is just a case of “I can’t do it so no one else can”. Seriously dude? Just do a simple google search for 4% body fat athletes. You’ll get results.
129 Neil said at 5:08 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Since you’ve done so, why don’t you post what you found?
130 Insomniac said at 5:11 PM on August 27th, 2015:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=4%25+body+fat+nfl
see for yourself then.
131 Neil said at 5:15 PM on August 27th, 2015:
OK, I see is an article claiming Dez Bryant is 3.1.
If you believe that, we’d better just stop here and respectfully disagree.
132 Insomniac said at 5:16 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Am I going to believe some random guy’s opinion is fact on the internet too? Nope.
133 Neil said at 5:17 PM on August 27th, 2015:
You’ve more than demonstrated your qualifications speaking on this matter.
134 Insomniac said at 5:38 PM on August 27th, 2015:
http://www.ncaa.org/health-and-safety/sport-science-institute/body-composition-what-are-athletes-made
Nah I just do more research. Even if you add the margin of error some players are still 7% body fat.
135 Neil said at 6:07 PM on August 27th, 2015:
OK, let’s take your data.
Football (Backs) 9-12%
Football (Linemen) 15-19%
These are not the grown men in the NFL but college age players who are filling out. Tell America you don’t gain fat as you grow older. It’s natural, except when it continues into obesity. I was not trying to argue against basketball players being skinny as hell at 6%. A far cry from claiming a progessional, grown athelete could be 4%.
Desean Jackson and a handful of other such completely finesse players might be as low as 7% it seems like to me. Please, if you disagree with this point out some players who are really as skinny as Desean. I can’t think of another. I honestly want to say you could count the number of NFL players who are that skinny on one hand, but how many skill players really are that low in your opinion? What body would you use to define 7% if you think Desean is lower?
Also, let’s be careful with the numbers we’re throwing around here.
NSFW, copy and paste and delete the space.
h ttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2705/4491388148_39415e8685_o.jpg
h ttp://cdn.builtlean.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/body-fat-percentage-men.jpg
If Dez is 3.1, what is the person in the photograph incorrectly labelled 3-4%? How would you define the categories in that picture if you disagree with the labels?
136 Insomniac said at 7:18 PM on August 27th, 2015:
You’re just nitpicking now man.
137 Neil said at 9:51 AM on August 28th, 2015:
Weak reply.
Maybe I’m stupid, but it seems like you’ve been proving my point for me. Correct me if I’m wrong.
I said “Professional athletes seldom if ever have body fat lower than 10%”.
You posted data saying that my statement is basically true regarding even college athletes, and then relied on the “margin of error” to somehow say I’m wrong. This is like saying “since there are a few outliers in the NFL who do have low bodyfat, your statement is overall incorrect”. No, overall it’s correct because there are always outliers.
This means you’re the one who’s nitpicking.
138 Insomniac said at 6:18 PM on August 28th, 2015:
Proving your point? What point did you have in the first place? This data just proves you wrong even if it’s college players (herp derp NFL combine data not NFL playerzzz). Some athletes play in single digit body fat so get over it.
139 Neil said at 6:23 PM on August 29th, 2015:
Stop being a child. Tell me why I’m wrong. Don’t just say “you’re wrong, derp”.
140 Mitchell said at 6:18 PM on August 27th, 2015:
You’re right people can do. Usually body builders with stupidly high levels of testosterone. I don’t think a “natural” person can achieve it though. Fufina, below is right, measuring techniques can be off by several percentages.
141 Insomniac said at 8:17 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I’m not a med student but the ncaa link might be interesting read for you.
142 Mitchell said at 9:46 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I skimmed it but it’s just too long! It was interesting for sure.
143 GENETiC-FREAK said at 6:34 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Nah man there bodybuilders who get that percentage. Its not sustainable through the year tho as its unhealthy. Playing the sport i do our trainers advise us 10-13% body fat is good to protect your organs when taking hits. As the season goes on you will most probably hit the single digits hence why we have to increase our calorie intake.
144 Tdoteaglefan said at 6:35 PM on August 27th, 2015:
exactly
145 Tdoteaglefan said at 6:34 PM on August 27th, 2015:
lol, then they would lose. unless they were a woman competing in a natural or figure competition, a couple of my ex-girlfriends used to hover around 7% for competitions and be around 13% in the offseason
Bodybuilders usually hit a target of 3-5% in the contest phase, mind you that is after several months of dieting, carb, and sodium depleting and in some cases after abusing thermogenic substances like Clenbuterol and using diuretics. And that will only last for a day or two, it’s not really healthy..
My target is 6%, right now I’m between 10-12
146 Tdoteaglefan said at 6:24 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I think he was busted for “substance abuse” and not for violation of “PED”s. which indicates that he probably tested positive for the sticky icky or some other “fun” substances.
Agree that the Steelers probably knew something and that’s why they were talking up Wheaton as the number 2
147 GEAGLE said at 3:50 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Eagles Fans need to get Familiar with the name Tyler Patmon, this is the Undrafted second year Pigeon who will be asked to replace Orlando Scandrick in the slot… Before each game chip looks for Matchups to exploit, and there will be none bigger then Jordan Mathews repeatedly picking on this cowboy pigeon. The Pope is going to dominate this kid hopefully in both cowboy games
148 HawaiianEagle said at 4:36 PM on August 27th, 2015:
or Sproles…
149 Fufina said at 4:37 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Now that is a tough pair to prepare for in one week.
150 GEAGLE said at 4:44 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Yikes… You could also find yourself lined up against Ertzy in the slot… We should be able to terrorize defenses in center field opening things up for our Outside WRs which could use the help…
..
Last year Coop played 200 more snaps then the pope. Imagine what Jordan’s numbers would have been if he swapped snap counts with Coop, would have had a monster rookie season,., and I’m sure we will see the Pope get the most snaps out of our stable of WRs this year… We will use a lot of the WRs, but when we are in two WR sets Jordan will be in the game… No way will we see Huff and Coop or agholor in 2 WR sets while Jordan is on the bench, that’s why Jordan takes Reps inside and outside… Jordan is our real #1 WR who moves to the a lot when their are 3 WRs in the game…. But we should be scary on plays that Sproles and Ertz are working the center of the field while Jordan lines up outside opposite of Huff or agholor
151 HawaiianEagle said at 4:57 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I was wishful thinking Sproles as I have him on my fantasy team 🙂
152 Greg Richards said at 6:04 PM on August 27th, 2015:
So, apparently Rodgers isn’t going to play against us at all. Their backup QB is nursing a concussion. So, we’re going to be facing the fearsome duo of Brett Hundley and Matt Blanchard. Wish GB was willing to test us, but clearly Rodgers is scared of our defense.
153 Fufina said at 6:10 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Ha think Rogers is scared of injury not our defence. However i also think that if we were a nobody in the AFC he would play a couple of series.
I think preseason should be exclusively against out of conference opposition that you do not play that year. Why give a potential opponent in game experience of your game when there is no need for it? Tape is all good but it will never give experience of players little twitches and mannerisms, tells and little technical tendencies that you can learn playing them in person.
Is a blow since it pretty much renders the game pointless except for seeing how bradford can perform over 4-5 series.
154 Greg Richards said at 6:16 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Hard to get schedules to match up and still be playing close to home. From the Eagles’ perspective, it wouldn’t be too bad as if we could alternate between playing the AFC East and AFC North. If you’re a West team though and you happen to be playing the other conference’s West Division in the regular season that year then you’re likely going to have to play far away for your road preseason games.
155 Avery Greene said at 9:34 PM on August 27th, 2015:
I think Bradford is only getting 2-3 series.
156 A_T_G said at 6:42 PM on August 27th, 2015:
That really takes the fun out of this game. All that is left is a 3-hour cringe, fearing injuries. We should just call it off.
Edit: On second thought, maybe this is a condition so that they can put that plan into action I mentioned earlier, where we tackle every skill player as soon as the ball is snapped.
157 Ark87 said at 7:16 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Just send the whole defense charging Aaron Rodgers on the sideline at the snap? You just can’t be sure enough that he doesn’t have the ball, he’s just too damn dangerous in the event he actually does have the ball on the sideline. You’re pretty sure Scott Tolzien just pump faked but Randall Cobb just caught a perfect back shoulder pass, you know EXACTLY what just happened. Don’t risk it, just hit Rodgers.
158 unhinged said at 7:28 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Sounds like Rodgers’ comments re: PS games got the attention of McCarthy….and Nelson’s injury, of course.
159 Joe Minx said at 9:04 PM on August 27th, 2015:
The Packers aren’t playing any of their starters. Too scared of anybody else getting hurt after last week.
160 jpate said at 9:15 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Maybe they should just keep them in bubble wrap until postseason
161 Nailed it! said at 7:16 PM on August 27th, 2015:
The doldrums on the wait for the third preseason game: people are actually arguing over body fat % as it pertains not only to football players but to everyday life.
Igglesblitz never change. I love it here.
162 A_T_G said at 10:05 PM on August 27th, 2015:
My favorite part is how, as the argument progresses, instead of breaking down into name calling and insults, it instead veers off into mathematical calculations and medical research.
163 Nailed it! said at 10:09 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Dare I say we have the classiest commenters online?
164 Dragon_Eagle said at 7:43 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Crap. I was thinking there was a Thursday PS game on. Didn’t care who. Disappointed. Stupid NFL.
165 Dave said at 8:48 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Cowboys, miners, NFL network on now
166 Ark87 said at 8:37 PM on August 27th, 2015:
Watched Kendricks on PE.com in the studio, and the B roll was just him in camp, in shorts, god that dude is athletic, when you put the camera’s on ground level like they do at camp, good god. He said it himself, if he can mentally get to where ‘Meco is at, where you are figuring out what is happening while they huddle (by personnel) as they line up (by formation) and just before the snap (motion, watching how QB is reacting to the looks your team is showing), he can be one of the best. Hoping he continues to grow for years to come.