More on the OL and the Offseason

Posted: December 15th, 2016 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 45 Comments »

After the previous post about the Eagles possibly focusing on the OL in the offseason, there were some interesting responses.

Read the post. The Eagles don’t need to magically turn things around. They need to build an O-line for Carson Wentz. It will take time to do this. The OL isn’t bad now, but there is a need for young talent that can grow with Wentz over the next few years.

Also, this isn’t about forcing a pick. The Eagles don’t have to spend their 1st rounder on an OL (or a CB or WR for that matter). This roster has enough holes that the Eagles should focus on adding the best players. The Eagles do need to invest resources on the OL. Todd Herremans and John Welbourn were each 4th round picks that became outstanding players for the Eagles. Jason Kelce was a 6th rounder. Isaac Seumalo and Halapoulivaati Vaitai weren’t early picks and both have shown the potential to be starters in the future.

Adding pieces to the OL doesn’t mean the team will ignore other spots. Pretty much every person on planet Earth knows the Eagles need WR help.

A few people wanted to know about this. Seumalo played C in college and has the skill set to start there in the NFL. If the Eagles had someone else at LG, I could see them letting Seumalo battle Jason Kelce for the C job. One thing to keep in mind, in Pederson’s final year in KC they started a rookie at C. He was also in Philly when Kelce started as a rookie. Pederson will give a rookie or other young player a shot to win that job. And it doesn’t have to be a super high pick. The Eagles aren’t blind. They know Kelce has been up and down this year. He isn’t guaranteed to return. If he does, he’ll be challenged.


The Eagles know they need skill players.

I was a big fan of Jackson’s prior to the draft. Too bad the Browns took him. Excellent size-speed guy with a lot of potential.

The Eagles did bring up Byron Marshall from the practice squad.

He’s terrific in space. The question is how he will do between the tackles when going against NFL starters. Don’t expect him to get a ton of work, but hopefully he will get some touches in the next few weeks.


So why not add WR Michael Floyd?

Jimmy wrote a good piece on why Floyd didn’t make sense for the Eagles.

If this was October, things might be different. If the Eagles were in the playoffs, things might be different. The Eagles have 3 games left. They need to focus on young players who can be part of the future. Floyd has character issues. He also wasn’t putting up great numbers this year. There just isn’t much of a reason for the Eagles to go after him.

The Pats took a chance on him. They will be in the postseason and that is the key difference.


45 Comments on “More on the OL and the Offseason”

  1. 1 unhinged said at 12:27 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    If FA and the draft give HR an opportunity to get a beefier center or guard, I could see Kelce going away. I also think Connor Barwin could be cut early to give him a chance to sign with a 3-4 defense.

  2. 2 Fufina said at 7:43 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Think Barwin is gone in march – he is not a $8mil a year player in this scheme with his age and production this year.

    Kelce makes less sense to move on from early at least, he has no guaranteed money and his cap figure is not too bad. Draft a couple of mid/late round OL and if someone blows you away you can always cut him at cut down day.

    Having said that while Kelce has struggled with penalties this year he had not been giving up pressures on Wentz in the passing game. In the run game he is very good in space – if you have a good stable OL with quality guards you can get creative and get him blocking on the 2nd level and he is suddenly an elite player. Asking him to move a 340lb NT 1v1 in the run game is not a recipe for him to succeed. Unfortunately with rookies and stand in guards next to him most of the year they have had to dial back the OL blocking scheme and keep it simple… and Kelce wont thrive in that situation.

  3. 3 laeagle said at 4:14 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Excellent breakdown. Kelce’s had a tough year but he’s not the scrub people are making him out to be. He’s had some excellent moments.

  4. 4 Sb2bowl said at 11:39 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    I don’t see Barwin as trade-able material; he’s a little too old and he makes a little too much money to get anything in return.

    But then again, we got rid of DeMarco last year, so who knows?

  5. 5 BobSmith77 said at 11:56 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Me neither. Great guy but he is going to be cut and looking for a 1-yr deal somewhere as a backup/role-player type.

  6. 6 Buge Halls said at 7:51 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Heard this morning the likely reason the Pats picked up Floyd was for the compensatory picks after he leaves. The argument was they’d pay $1 million for even a 7th round pick. Not sure if that’s a good use of cap space, but at this point in the season, if you have it, spend it I guess.

    As for the guy above who said an OL won’t help the receiver catch passes, untrue. A solid OL not only protects the QB so he has plenty of time to set up and pick a receiver, but it also opens the run game up so the defense has to pull guys off of coverage to play the run. Both of these help mediocre receivers perform better – just look at all those years the Eagles had a stout line and the likes of Pinkston, Mitchell, Thrash, etc. catching balls.

  7. 7 Anders said at 8:06 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    “Not sure if that’s a good use of cap space, but at this point in the season, if you have it, spend it I guess.”

    This is bad way to use cap space, because you can use it next year instead

  8. 8 SteveH said at 8:18 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Also, a 7th round compensatory is at the end of the 7th round, so they’d basically be paying for a guy in UDFA territory.

  9. 9 Mac said at 12:50 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Aren’t comp picks trade-able now?

    2017 rd 7 comp -> 2018 rd 6 pick -> 2019 rd 5 pick -> 2020 rd 4 pick -> 2021 rd 3 pick -> 2022 rd 2 pick -> 2023 rd 1 pick.

    They just spent a million bucks for a future first round pick. This is why they keep winning. Damn cheaters.

  10. 10 A_T_G said at 8:40 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    I saw that theory. I imagine (hope) the comp picks have language to nullify adding guys in December and then letting them walk.

    But yeah, like was said, a million in cap space for the first crack at UDFA material IF you don’t sign any FAs sounds like a stretch.

  11. 11 D3FB said at 9:39 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Nope, but it has to be a guy on an expiring multi-year deal and you have to claim him on waivers.

    It’s a bad use of cap.

  12. 12 SteveH said at 8:19 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    The best part about this post is that a guy named Michael Floyd tweeted at you about wide receivers while fans were clamoring to pick up a WR named Michael Floyd.

  13. 13 BobSmith77 said at 11:55 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Hiliarious if Michael Floyd set up a phony Twitter handle using his actual name but then not getting verified. Double secret Twitter athlete account.

  14. 14 A_T_G said at 8:47 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    “Read the post.”

    That isn’t how Twitter works, Tommy. If you take the time to read the article first all the best snarky retorts are already taken. Besides, it isn’t like there is any accountability for just firing off a tweet that turns out to be baseless.

    That Byron Marshall play, though, I watched about 20 times. Watch all the players, it looks like some choreographed movie scene. Certainly not predictive of future success, but fun to imagine Barry Church and Sean Lee in the supporting roles there.

  15. 15 Corry said at 9:19 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    I down voted this before reading just to be the first to do so. I’ll change it later when I read (never).

  16. 16 xmbk said at 2:16 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Pretty sure Lee keeps his head up. 😉

  17. 17 daveH said at 6:30 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    About 20 times here also. . That sure is some fluidity he’s got fluid moves & strides.
    . Love how he pours those shoulders ahead loje B West !!

  18. 18 Ryan Rambo said at 11:58 AM on December 16th, 2016:

    Dear Santa,

    All I want for Christmas is for Dallass to lose their 1st playoff game!

  19. 19 Dave said at 3:47 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    PS Santa, a QB controversy going into the offseason would make it the best Christmas ever.

  20. 20 Dragon_Eagle said at 3:52 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Or Jerry Jones re-assuming full control over personnel decisions. Either one, really, would make it a special holiday season.

  21. 21 bushisamoron said at 12:14 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Really nice discussion Tommy. Thanks

  22. 22 eagleyankfan said at 3:33 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    “OL isn’t bad now” followed by “OL is also critical”. :). Sounds like the people in denial about a rebuild might be warming up to the idea. Need OL to develop for Wentz. Need WR’s to help Wentz etc etc. It’s all part of the plan. Get franchise QB (check). Next step build around him….

  23. 23 Dave said at 3:44 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    The recent Colts teams should be exhibit A on how not to build around a QB. If you don’t protect the QB with a quality offensive line, you cannot expect him to stay healthy.

  24. 24 laeagle said at 4:09 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    I think Tommy’s not quite but sort of explicitly stated point is that you don’t need to use first rounders to do that. Most of the time, your O-line is built from picks throughout the draft. As well as FA. As Tommy pointed out, our best lines in recent history show great examples of this. You had guys like Tra Thomas as a 1st, but Runyan, the other anchor, was a FA. The middle was later round guys, some of whom were excellent players.

    I think everyone makes the mistake of looking at Dallas’s line and thinks you can only build a top notch line through first rounders. They’ve got 3 on their line. That’s the exception rather than the rule. In their case, as they built that line, they thought they already had their weapons identified. They had their QB, they had their star WR. They thought for a while they had their RB. They had the arguable luxury of picking OL each time. Of course, other parts of the team like the defense suffered as a result, but that’s always the tradeoff with drafting. And also of course, they’re going to be in a difficult spot trying to sign both Frederick and Martin long term along with everyone else.

    I think that if you accept the fact that components of a strong line can come from anywhere, more so than perhaps at other positions (except for some key spots like tackle, center), then you can focus on building around the QB by steadily building a line with any pick you can as well as in FA, but never letting star caliber difference makers slip by you if you have the opportunity to draft them. Part of building around Wentz is giving him the weapons he needs. We shouldn’t wait until we have the perfect line to do that. Top receivers aren’t often found outside of the top 2 rounds of the draft. Top lineman absolutely are often found in other places, as our own history proves: Runyan, Mathis, Herremans, Welbourn, Kelce, and even Peters.

  25. 25 laeagle said at 4:12 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    TL; DR version: absolutely build the line but don’t think that the first round is the only place to do it, and don’t wait to add weapons until the “perfect” line is built.

  26. 26 Dragon_Eagle said at 3:56 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Let’s play a little game as I’m curious. On the offensive side of the ball, name 2 current players you think most likely still with the Eagles in 3 years.

  27. 27 laeagle said at 3:57 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Starters: wentz, ertz. johnson. seumalo.
    Depth: smallwood, big v

  28. 28 Fufina said at 4:57 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Think Matthews makes that list. He is a good no.2 WR even if he cannot toe tap and struggles with drops at times.

  29. 29 BobSmith77 said at 11:11 PM on December 17th, 2016:

    Slot WR who can’t play outside effectively enough and is going to want to get paid No 1 WR money I bet.

    Tend to agree with laeagle. Lots of change but inevitable too in the NFL in 3 years too.

    I wouldn’t even put it 50/50 Pederson is the coach in 3 years (2019) either at this time.

  30. 30 anon said at 4:50 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Hard to tell who the new coach and GM will want.

  31. 31 daveH said at 1:33 AM on December 17th, 2016:

    Peters, kelce, agholar. .

  32. 32 Ryan Rambo said at 7:25 AM on December 18th, 2016:

    Sarcasm? He said, STILL WITH the Eagles in 3 years. That seems like the list of guys most likely NOT WITH.

  33. 33 daveH said at 1:44 PM on December 18th, 2016:

    Sarcasm yes. Now Add Wentz

  34. 34 Dave M. said at 5:22 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Every OL position is questionable for 2017.

    Peters – Age is catching up to him quickly.
    Barbre – Age is also catching up with him and he has been hurt quite often in the past two years.
    Kelce – Once an athletic undersized center, now is a bottom tier center who is too small.
    Brooks – Currently has a chronic anxiety condition that is keeping him off the field. Treatment could include medicines that basically turn him into a fog brain.
    Johnson – PED head who cannot be trusted.

    Vaitai and Seumalo are young and appear to have upsides but they are not anywhere near sure things. Vaitai getting hurt certainly did not help his future assessment and Seumolo playing numerous positions has not helped his development.

    Bottom line, the OL could be worse, much worse, next year.

  35. 35 Sean Stott said at 4:53 PM on December 17th, 2016:

    Your comment on Brooks makes you either ignorant or stupid

  36. 36 Dave M. said at 5:11 PM on December 17th, 2016:

    Way to virtue signal Sean, you sure are a great mann (?) with your deep feelings. Ignorant or stupid? Here’s only one of thousands of articles concerning the possible side effects of anti-anxiety medication.

  37. 37 Mitchell said at 5:45 PM on December 17th, 2016:

    Generalized anxiety and even performance anxiety are treated with SSRIs that are extrmely safe and well tolerated, and the most ised treatments for anxiety today. Side affects include nausea, diarrhea, possible increased anxiety, serotonin syndrome and possible sexual dysfunction. Benzos loke xanax are getting less use in the anxiety field beciase they are addictive and antipsychotics like Ambien are used for people with halluconations, paranoia, etc. Those are the ones causing fogs and sedation, I highly doubt Brooks will be place on that.

  38. 38 kajomo said at 5:58 PM on December 17th, 2016:

    Boom Dave…Boom

  39. 39 Sean Stott said at 3:10 AM on December 18th, 2016:

    I’m not virtue signaling, you’re just kind of a dumbass.

  40. 40 Bert's Bells said at 7:40 AM on December 18th, 2016:

    Somebody’s engrams are acting up again.

  41. 41 kajomo said at 9:57 PM on December 16th, 2016:

    Good teams draft well, developed talent well, and aren’t afraid to play young players.

    I would love to see Vaitai and Seumalo as starters next year. We can grab a LG in round 2-3 and have our starting OL under contract for the next 3 years. That continuity along the OL would be huge.

    Moving on from Peters and Kelce allows us to shift money from an aging OL to other areas of the team. It is important to do this now as we likely only have 2 more years of Wentz on his rookie deal.(HR likes to get deals done asap).

    I also don’t get why everyone is so down on Big V. He is a guy that should benefit more than anyone from the offseason. He will get stronger, will refine his technique, and have a better grasp of the offense. Other than the redskins game (his first start) I would never put Vaitai in the top 10 reasons of why we lost any game this year. I don’t think the drop of from a 35 year old JP to Vaitai in year 2 will be as large as many make it out to be. It certainly isn’t a $10Mil+ difference.

  42. 42 daveH said at 1:31 AM on December 17th, 2016:

    Everyone seen Carroll’s fake punt call..??. its 2nd only to his epic ego fail in the super bowl. I love it, cant get enough

  43. 43 P_P_K said at 11:16 AM on December 17th, 2016:

    Stupid call. Made no sense.

  44. 44 daveH said at 11:12 PM on December 17th, 2016:

    His ego at work

  45. 45 daveH said at 12:31 AM on December 18th, 2016:

    Chance the Rapper sucks.. but people are clapping
    For some real vomit inducing tv make sure you catch the XMas at Boston Pops.. it is sofa kibg cheery and white i actually thought it might be trying to make non boston ppl sick