Misc Monday Night + Q&A
Posted: April 9th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 41 Comments »I’ll do a full update on the DT situation on Tuesday.
We did get the Demetress Bell contract breakdown today. Per Reuben Frank, Bell gets $3.25M this year. His salary next year is just $1M, but he’s got a major roster bonus – $8.5M. The salaries after that are relatively high. This really is a 1-year deal. The roster bonus is due next year on the 3rd day of the league year (early March). That will give the Eagles a very short window to trade Bell if they want without paying the bonus. If not, they pay the bonus and then have the option of keeping or trading him.
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Fletcher Cox update. Adam Caplan said on Twitter that there is no chance the Eagles get him at 15. Albert Breer of NFL.com talked to his league connections and then did a mock draft. He has the Eagles taking…Dontari Poe. Evan Silva did the newest mock for PFT and had us taking Cox at 15.
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It seems like, from the perfect pre-draft offseason checklist, trading Asante is all that’s left. 1. MLB, 2. DeSean, 3. Mathis, 4. Dunlap/OL depth, 5. Landri. I hadn’t thought of it in these terms, but that’s a pretty brilliant summation. I think you need to add in the fact we signed a veteran QB so that we have flexibility there as well. We now have as much flexibility as we need heading into the draft. There won’t be any Danny Watkins need picks.
What about Quinton Coples at under tackle? I’ve gotten this question a few times. I’ve answered a few times, but anyway…if Coples does fall to 15, the Eagles could be interested. They like versatile DL. Coples played DT as a Junior and DE as a Senior. He is a good inside pass rusher and could be a good fit in the Wide-9 as an attacking DT. The x-factor here is whether Coples would embrace the move. DEs get to play in space and face OTs. DTs play inside and get double-teamed plenty of times. If a run play comes at a DT, he’s dealing with a pair of blockers. This is about as fun as running into a brick wall. Most guys choose DE if given the option. I tend to doubt Coples would fully embrace a full-time move back to DT. I’m sure he’d be fine with playing DT in sub-packages (Nickel/Dime).
One other angle to this is money. Edge rushers get mega-bucks. DTs aren’t nearly as well paid, with a few exceptions. Coples will want to go where the money is.
Who are the players you want at pick 15? It isn’t as simple as just saying I want X or Y. You have to look at draft scenarios. Would I rather have Luke Kuechly and Derek Wolfe or Fletcher Cox and Bobby Wagner, for instance? There are only 3 players in the draft that I flat out covet: Luck, RG3, and Morris Claiborne. I don’t want the Eagles to sell out and go for these guys. I’m simply talking about players I’d love to fall to a place where we could take them or make a reasonable trade up. Talented players like Coples, Melvin Ingram, and Matt Kalil are outstanding, but I don’t covet them. I’d rather have Cox and Kuechly than them.
This is an unusual situation because the Eagles are rarely sitting at pick 15. Normally there are quite a few guys ahead of us that I want.
What’s the update on Asante? Teams are talking to him, his agent, and the Eagles. I expect something to get done in the next 2 weeks. Can’t be more specific than that. The rumors of 2013 conditional picks are probably what the Eagles will end up getting.
Will the Cowboys take a DL at 14? If so, who? I do think there is a good chance Dallas will go DL. I’d love to say they’ll have no interest in Fletcher Cox, but that’s not true. He would be a good fit at 3-4 DE. He could also slide inside in the Nickel/Dime. I can also see Dontari Poe being a player they covet. Rob Ryan was around massive DL in NE, OAK, and CLE. He’s got no one quite like that in Dallas. Poe has his issues, but is huge and has special potential. It won’t surprise me in the least to see Dallas go for Poe. He could play NT or DE in their system.
Any update on the Eagles and Tannehill? I still think Ryan goes 8th overall to Miami. If he gets by them, KC (11) and SEA (12) could each take him. I don’t think Tannehill has much of a chance to get to 15. If he does slide, the Eagles will take him.
What about getting a QB next year? I prefer to have the Eagles pass on QB this year and go for one next year. However, that philosophy is just based on generalities. If Tannehill is available for the right price, I’m fine with taking him. I am fine with the Eagles taking a QB in the mid to late rounds. What I don’t want is Kirk Cousins in the 2nd round or something like that. Don’t overpay for a QB when we don’t need one.
The 2013 QB class does look good. I am not going into names now. Let’s do that in a month or two. I’m still focused on the upcoming draft class.
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AC Viking made a valid point about the Red Zone on Sunday. I’ve written about this before, but will turn the subject into a post or column.
Tommy, I’m not sure about all the restrictions on contracts in the NFL — is it possible for a McCoy extension any time from now until the end of the season?
McCoy can be extended at any time. Players sometimes will tell teams that they don’t want to negotiate during the season. Can be too distracting. Just a choice, though.
RE: Offseason checklist
I feel really good about the roster heading into the draft and training camp. With no major current needs, hard to imagine the Eagles doing anything other than going for the BPA. And more than ever I like the idea of either moving up to get guys they really like, or trading back or out of rounds entirely in return for picks next year.
Of course, last time I felt this way our All-Pro LT had a major season-ending injury. Now I’m worried again.
“I think you need to add in the fact we signed a veteran QB so that we have flexibility there as well.”
I think backup QB is a significant weakness right now and I don’t think Edwards solves any of that. The Eagles have made it clear that he was brought here as the 3rd option, so even the Eagles don’t view him as the primary backup. In other words, Kafka is our backup and will likely start 2 to 4 games this season. As of right now, I’m not very confident with that. He could do a lot to make me feel more comfortable during the preseason, but I still think he needs to be challenged by someone with more talent than Edwards. Of course, I’m not really sure who would be available to do that at this point.
Let’s be clear…I didn’t say Edwards was a great solution to anything. His presence gives us the flexibility to go for a QB if we want, but we can also stick with the 3 we have for now.
If Kafka and/or Edwards really struggles, you can add a veteran QB in August.
It isn’t fair to ball backup QB a significant weakness right now. It is a mystery. Kafka might turn out just fine.
That’s fair. I guess I’m just not very confident in Edwards, so to me, he doesn’t do much more for me than fill the third QB spot with a name. On the other hand, I think most people agree that Kafka still has to take a step forward. Maybe “significant” weakness is an over statement, and in terms of the draft, I certainly agree that we shouldn’t reach for a QB. Still, with a QB like Vick who most of us believe will miss 2-4 games during the season, having your backup as a guy who still needs to progress is not exactly a place I consider settled.
I agree with this, but to a point. Our backup will need to play at some point, unless Vick takes a big leap forward with throwaways and protecting himself. And although we haven’t seen any recent evidence that Kafka and Edwards can definitely be counted on in that role, we haven’t seen anything that makes us believe they definitely can’t either.
We really just need, between now and August, to find out if one of them is good enough to do what Vince Young did against the Giants last year (but preferably not what he did in all his other appearances for us)
Can we really be sure that Vince Young wouldn’t be an upgrade right now?
Edwards really wasn’t that bad as a starter: he just wasn’t good enough to be a franchise QB and make the big bucks. He’s smart, reasonably athletic, and has plenty of experience, so he was a good low risk pickup, preferable imho to Kafka short and long term. There are better QBs out there to backup an oft-injured Vick, especially in a clutch or playoff game, but free agency is down to the guys the GMs are avoiding for different reasons.
Looks like McLane wrote about this exact thing today. Doesn’t break a ton of new ground, but I love the Montana quote that Kafka regurgitates:
“He goes, ‘I don’t throw darts at balloons. I throw balloons at darts.’ Kafka said he came across that quote while reading. He’s made it his mantra. ”
Here’s the story:
http://articles.philly.com/2012-04-08/sports/31308557_1_kolb-and-vick-first-nfl-action-eagles-coach-andy-reid
It’s an interesting article, but ultimately, I’m not sure it answers anything. Your point, as well as McLane’s point is that Kafka is basically a maybe. Maybe he can’t be a successful backup, but maybe he can. I agree with that logic, but I guess my argument is that with a QB that is likely to get injured for at least a few games, handing the backup job to a maybe is incredibly risky. He should have to earn it through competition with a more proven backup than a guy that couldn’t find a job in the NFL last season. Granted, I am not sure I know who else would have been good competition, nor can I think of a player we missed out on, so I am not saying the Eagles did a poor job of filling the backup role or anything like that. I just still view the backup position as a weakness until proven otherwise, and Trent Edwards added little to change that feeling.
My point isn’t too different from yours; I always think it’s wise to have a talented backup on call so a promising season doesn’t get nipped in the bud. With Vick, we know it’s a near certainty No. 2 is going to have to start.
I wouldn’t want to “hand the backup job” to a maybe, but I think we have two maybes, and neither of them are being handed the job, which means Kafka + Edwards — the chance of one of them being a serviceable backup is greater than if we only had one of them and were actually handing them the job. I think the competition is good, and I think there’s just as much evidence that either player can be okay as there is reason to worry.
So you don’t panic and add a QB just to add one, but if one comes to you in the draft process, by all means, add him.
Re: who we missed out on, I would have liked Jason Campbell. I also think if either Hasselbeck or Alex Smith had been pushed out by Peyton, we should have gone after them for No. 2. But yeah, we did what we could there. I’m curious about Trent. Especially since with our talent on offense, the QB doesn’t have to be a world-beater, he just has to get the ball to the right guys and not the bad guys.
Good article about asante samuel: http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/56800/the-eagles-asante-samuel-dilemma
eagles will probably get the bad end but lets see what Roseman will do.
Keep your expectations realistic.
Brilliant summation? I’m happy with an uncredited contribution out front.
I guess if we want to get super-idealistic, we could have addressed SAM. Good point about adding Trent Edwards too. We are not beholden to any particular move on draft day, which I think gives us a chance to extract a lot of value from it.
Einstein said the mark of true genius is making complex ideas simple. I could have written 3 paragraphs, but you summed it up in a sentence. Well done.
Did Einstein happen to say anything about the mark of making very simple ideas complex? Did he happen to utter the words Big Red to describe this phenomenon?
I think Yahoo Serious said that in the cinematic great Young Einstein.
I know that he’s on the Bucs now but would Amobi Okoye been a good fit as our back up UT? He has plenty of talent and was a good pass rushing DT in his rookie year. && he’s young at 24.
I think we should have made a push to sign him tbh.
Also I’ve seen about 3 mock drafts in the past couple of months that have Luke Kuechly falling to the Giants…Do you think that is even possible? I think a team like PIT or BAL could use him. PIT would have the best 3-4 LB corps ever…Harrison–Kuechly–Timmons–Woodley.. Probably would never happen though because they need OL, DL and CB help.
Would LK fit a 3-4 system?
Two of the favorites to take him before us are the Chiefs who play a 34 and the Seahawks who play that weird ass hybrid defense so I would say most likely although you kind of waste his skill set as an interior backer in a 34.
I think he’d fit just about any system…I just think its a big waste to use him as a 3-4 ILB.
Tommy,
Maybe you’ve addressed it before and I missed it, but regarding the earlier discussion about backup QB: what potential do *you* see in Mike Kafka? Do you see a starter or solid backup as his ceiling?
Tommy, you gave us the tease, so what’s your opinion?
“Would I rather have Luke Kuechly and Derek Wolfe or Fletcher Cox and Bobby Wagner, for instance? ”
I’m not sure if this is fair or not, but Fletcher Cox scares me based on how Broderick Bunkley turned out for us. Similar bodies, also good combine scores, and game tape. Graham also had great tape, great work out, but even before he got injured seemed to pale in comparisson to JPP. Bunk has some better combine and college stats, and Cox looks a little faster (which won’t do him any good if the NFL guards and centers stuff him)
Bunkley:
Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP Wonderlic
6 ft 2¾ in 306 lb 5.01 s 1.71 s 2.91 s 4.16 s 7.33 s 32⅓ in 9 ft 5 in 44 rep 15
All values from NFL Combine, except for 20-ss and 3-cone (which is from Florida State Pro Day)
He finished his Seminoles career with 129 tackles, 11.5 sacks, and 37 TFLs (5th in school history) in 44 games (22 starts).
Cox:
Ht Wt 40-yd dash 10-yd split 20-yd split 20-ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP Wonderlic
6 ft 4 in 298 lb 4.79s na s na s na s 7.07 s 26 in 8 ft 7 in 30 rep na
All values from NFL Combine,
01/04/12 – Cox, projected by the NFL Draft Advisory Committee as a second-round selection, said it was a “tough decision” to leave the school after the most productive season of his three-year career in Starkville. “I wanted to be one of the great defensive linemen in the SEC and that’s what I did,” said Cox, who finished with 14 1/2 tackles for loss, including five sacks, and two blocked field goals in 2011. Cox is a border-line first-round selection, though he projects to be a second-rounder by the committee. – Brandon Marcello, The Jackson Clarion Ledger
Poe and Brockers seem to have bigger upsides because they haven’t reached their potential yet and have bigger frames. Cox may have peaked and seems like, what we thought Brandon Graham would be. A good DE with a “great motor”.
Kuechly seems like more of a “sure thing”. Maybe I’m just gun shy of eagles DE/DT picks, because we’ve done so well over the past 10+ years with DLman picks. Best one has been Patterson in 2005 with the 31st pick (Cole was sheer luck, just like the Pat’s getting Brady in late rounds).
I’m hoping that Washburn’s experience will be enough to figure out if any of these DT’s will be a good fit for his coaching and system.
Graham was a better rookie then JPP
Did Graham fly of the LOS and impress like Babin or Cole? Graham had 4 sacks right? I thought we saw a lot of Mamula-eque performances where the effort was there, but he would just miss getting to the qb. Did he play the run well? I just don’t remember.
New pft mock draft has LK dropping all the way to 32nd to Giants. If that’s the case i wonder if Eagles can get Cox, and then get back into later 1st end to get LK.
Interesting to note how many Chiefs fans wanted DeCastro in a fan interactive mock here: http://www.footballdraftnotebook.com/InteractiveMockDraft.html If we were going to be aggressive, couldn’t they be the perfect partner? Moreover, wouldn’t Samuel help (i.e. Samuel and 15) them too, though in himself he may not be enough… I don’t know enough on values and trades.
I don’t know that the Chiefs would want to move back because Dallas would love to take DeCastro.
I think Coples could be a legit pick at 15. I remember reading Washburn likes tall D-lineman. Isn’t Coples about the same size as Jason Jones? Although I read on BGN that a lot of teams want to trade out of the top ten. Could Howie use this as leverage and move up to say 10 and get Cox, if they truly covet him? If Luke falls to 15 I could also see the Eagles trading back to say 20 and still pick Luke while gaining a pick or two. After the Eagles there are not many teams that have a need at LB.
If at 15 you like Luke and he is there you draft Luke and not play around, people there might need a LB, but who is to say someone else won’t jump up to draft him.
Seattle has a GLARING hole at LB..so no way Like gets passed them…Cox is a legit top 10 pick so he’s not getting to 15.so I see iggles trading back …but for which guy?…Floyd will be gone…Fleener?….maybe…if Brockers is there at 15… do u pull the trigger?…I can’t remember an iggles draft with so much intrigue.my wish is we package 1st and 3rd round picks and trade with Jags to move up to get Luke.we have NO depth at LB….
Tommy
you mentioned in one of your posts that the 3 guys you really covet this year are Luck, RG3 and Claiborne.
Let’s pretend that Claiborne falls into the range of picks between 7 and 10, would you pull the trigger for an uptrade then?! And if the Eagles stun everyone by doing so, wouldn’t we have the same luxury problem at CB we’ve had last year with Nnamdi, DRC and Asante?! Or would you be willing to write off DRC in your long-term plans then?!
“Or would you be willing to write off DRC in your long-term plans then?!”
Or do we see Nnamdi following Asante out the door? Would certainly result in getting younger and cheaper at the position…
I don’t think Nnamdi will be shown the door after two years here in Philly. His base salary will be 15m$ in 2013, however also 4m$ of dead money if he’s cut..
If you’re the Panthers, Asante + 15 for 9 has to make some sense. They need CB help. McDermott LOVES Asante. Steve Smith has just given them cap room to fit Asante under the cap. At 15, they will get either Cox/Coples/Brockers/Poe. The Eagles will either get their choice of Cox or Kuelchy.
Or is this too rational?
No way Carolina takes this trade. I suect Assantes value is not very high to teams because of his age, salary, and poor performance last year. His situation puts him in a buyers market. Teams know we are trying to get rid of him. Dont expect too much in return. Last year was the best time to trade him. I dont know what the max offer was, but even for last year I doubt if anyone offered even a 2nd rounder.
It seems to me that if LK and FC or off the board at 15, the Eagles should trade back into the second round. There seems to be a lot of talent available in the 2nd(according to various mocks). PLENTY of quality WRs, DBs, LBs, and DL are going to be available in the 2nd and early 3rd.
Does anyone know how much the 15th pick is worth and what a likely trade back package is worth? Potential partners?
The 15th pick is worth 1050 pts per the trade value chart. If you are talking about completely trading out of the first round it would take a first rounder from 2013 and an early 2nd rounder from 2012 for the Eagles to even consider it. Now if you wanted a possible trade partner within the first round: Denver is sitting on the 25th pick (720 pts) and has the 57th pick (330 pts) which would (according to the trade value chart) be equivalent to our 15th pick.
Jack Bauer saves the day again. It would be really authentic if you sent this response from your cell phone will driving in Ford vehicle!!!!!
Thanks for info seriously!