Un-Important Update on Kevin Kolb non-Trade
Posted: June 24th, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 25 Comments »I’m trying to be as un-SalPal as I can. He joined the Kevin Kolb fracas recently by reporting that the Eagles are looking for a player in return for Kolb rather than just draft picks. Sal, of course, is convinced he split the atom, discovered the New World, and cured cancer by “breaking” this news. Yawn.
We’ve been speculating about Kolb being traded for players for a month or more. The Eagles are smart shoppers. They want good value for Kolb. They aren’t going to limit the kind of compensation they can get. Ideally, I think they’d love a defensive starter and relatively high pick. If they could get the right player, they’d go Kolb for him straight up. If they can’t find a suitable player, they’ll settle for the right amounts of picks.
Remember the old commercial that “choosy moms choose Jif”? That’s the Eagles when it comes to finding players. They are very choosy, very specific. They will have a handful of guys targeted in free agency and as trade candidates. They won’t trade Kolb for just any veteran player. That’s simply not the Eagles style.
I think you can criticize the Eagles for being too picky in regard to veteran players. Compare this to car shopping. They are looking for high end cars or used cars that are great value. Sometimes all you need is a basic Ford/Chevy/Honda/Toyota to get the job done. Some organizations do a great job with filling holes with pro personnel moves. The Vikings made brilliant moves over the years. The Saints have made plenty of good moves. The Pats have had a lot of luck with veteran players.
The Kevin Kolb trade is an important deal for Howie Roseman, Andy Reid, and the Eagles. They need to get good value. This is important for putting out the best team, but also showing they can handle a tough deal like this. You don’t want to settle for too little, but don’t want to come across as greedy and fail to make a deal.
We don’t know who the Eagles want. DRC was a name some readers brought up to me and it made perfect sense. We’ve talked about him a few times in recent weeks. Would the Eagles ask about DT Darnell Dockett? He is a disruptive interior player, something the Eagles have lacked in recent years.
What about other teams? The Eagles would love to deal Kolb to Miami for CB Vontae Davis. Doesn’t seem like Miami wants to make a QB change right now. Teams like Cleveland and Seattle have been mentioned as possible Kolb destinations, but I’m not sure either team has a starter they’d be willing to deal that the Eagles would want. In those cases, draft picks would make the most sense.
The Eagles don’t have to get a player. They don’t have to get a pick. They have to get good value.
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More on DRC for a minute. The Cardinals official site addressed the rumor of Kolb for DRC and said it would be a surprise to them, but that hardly means much. PE.com doesn’t address rumors very often and even then rarely indicates something is going to happen.
The point that everyone now makes is that the Cards won’t want to give up DRC. He’s a starting CB and trading him would be dumb. Okay, that’s sorta true. The counter is that they don’t have a legitimate QB in place right now. That should be the headline. Forget DRC. The Cards have to focus on finding a QB, Kolb or otherwise. They need to do whatever it takes to get the QB. Again, that’s a team built on offense. This isn’t the 2000 Ravens who can run and play defense on the way to a title. Arizona needs a QB.
Maybe they go for Kyle Orton. Or Matt Hasselbeck. Or Kolb. They need a QB.
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Could the Eagles keep Kolb? Possible, but highly unlikely. The Eagles want to do the right thing for them and him, and that means making a deal. It is up to the other teams to show they are serious about acquiring Kolb.
Howie/Andy won’t just give him away. They’d keep him another year as the backup and then deal with next year…next year. That would mean putting the franchise tag on him and pulling off a trade. No one wants to do that, but it is possible.
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Someone on Twitter was offended by my joke about Donovan and the worms yesterday.
Listen, I live and die with these guys. I have for more than 20 years. I’ve watched every game. I’ve sat in front of a TV at a sports bar on Christmas Eve watching the Eagles play. I’ve supported the players and team emotionally and financially.
If anyone has earned the right to make fun of them, it is me. I love Donovan McNabb and everything he did for the Eagles. That doesn’t change the fact he threw more worm burners than anyone else in franchise history. That’s fair game for a joke.
I’d make a good Reggie White joke if there was one to be made. He doesn’t translate well to humor. If I had been writing about Seth Joyner back in the early 90s, I’d have stolen the line from Stripes “Lighten up, Francis” more than a few times. Seth was wired too tight. Seth might have gotten the nickname Psycho or Francis because of that.
I like giving players dumb nicknames. Reno Mahe was Reno 911! (like the TV show). Joselio Hanson is MmmBop (like the hit song by the band Hanson). Stewart Bradley is Disco Stew (character from The Simpsons). And so on.
You’ve got to be able to have fun with players. Jokes are fine as long as they don’t cross the line. Donovan McChoke isn’t funny. I’ve never said stuff like that. That’s flat out insulting. Writing that Philly area worms wanted to get a restraining order against McNabb is silly. It is clearly a joke. There’s no malice in a comment like that. I’d be willing to make that joke to McNabb’s face.
I’m not going to worship players. I did that as a kid and found out that reality and perception are worlds apart. These guys are human beings. They are very well compensated to play football. Making some jokes and poking fun at them is absolutely fair game. Don’t mistake that for malice. Big, big difference.
Maybe the guy wasn’t a McNabb booster, but a dedicated worm supporter. I too have some misgivings joking about the slaughter of innocent worms… the horror…
Brilliant.
I stand corrected.
It seems that the deal will ultimately include both a good player and a lower pick (or vice versa). DRC and Vontae Davis seem like a solid options, and Dockett would be fine (if a little older), though I’d be alright with someone like Beanie or Daryl Washington paired with a higher pick.
Who are some other guys that could be part of a Kolb trade?
I heard that Tom Heckert was willing to trade Sheldon Brown and a 4th round draft pick for Kolb?
Honestly, Sal P is probably quoting you when he states that the front office is looking for a player instead of a draft pick.
My point on the Cards re: trading DRC trades one need for another was simply to say that they can get a QB in other ways. Having a hole at RCB is better than having one at QB. That much is certain. If I am Arizona, I try to trade future picks for Kolb 1st, THEN consider trading players if the Eagles balk.
I wonder how Nnamdi is going to fit into all of this. If he signs elsewhere early, that gives AZ more leverage. If he plans on visiting Philly right out the gate, then it may give more leverage to the Eagles (for a DRC deal). If Philly is where Nnamdi wants to be (possible), the possibility of a DRC deal could lower his price (albeit slightly). Lots of exciting variables here.
And Donovan may have thrown more balls at the feet of his WRs than any QB in NFL history. Thats worth a joke or two…
@mcud
You make a great point about how Nnamdi fits into the idea of doing a deal with Kolb and DRC. To kind of extend that point, assuming trades are not allowed before FA eventually starts, would a move for DRC seem unlikely, or in other words, potentially desperate? Assuming free agency starts at the same time trading is allowed, the ultimate goal for the Eagles will be to get a quality RCB. With the way things work in FA, especially in a year like this were teams will want to sign guys quickly to get them into camp/practicing with the team, all the bigger/quality names will be off the FA market within the first, maybe second day, right? Can the Eagles really afford to gamble that way? Once all the FA CBs are off the market, the Eagles will have to be desperate, and we will lose the negotiating advantage we otherwise would have over the Cardinals in a trade. I have to imagine that the Eagles will try to pick up one of the available guys early on, simply to make sure they can maintain leverage in trade negotiations involving Kolb. I just doubt that the focus will be to make a trade happen immediately at the start of free agency rather than signing free agents.
I still think Patrick Peterson is a possibility in a trade. He was drafted 4 slots after Cam Newton and a few before Jake Locker. Kolb’s not better than both of those guys?? I know most people discount that possibility but I’m still holding out hope, however slim.
@Iskar36
Who would that player be? Carlos Rogers? I can only imagine his locker room behavior if that kind of deal went down… You’re our starting RCB, you finally get the respect you deserve… psyche, actually you were trade bait and now you are a backup corner because we are starting DRC… then again, maybe we sign Carlos Rogers and then trade him Kolb and Mike Patterson to the Cards for Dockett, DRC, and a 1st round pick? How crazy is that scenario? Probably a 1 in a million long shot… But it would meet the Cards needs without creating any glaring holes, and would upgrade 2 positions for us while grabbing serious Draft ammo… heck I’d almost pull the trigger on that one for a 2nd.
@McG
I guess I wasn’t clear in my point. My point wasn’t that we sign a guy and then also trade for DRC. My point was if we don’t sign anyone at the start of FA, then just like the Cardinals, we are desperate in filling a need. The Cardinals would be desperate about filling a need at QB while we would remain desperate with filling a need a CB. Now in the scenario where we sign someone (whether that be Nnamdi or any of the other quality CBs that may/will be available), then when we try to make a trade for Kolb, we have leverage still. We don’t need a CB any more, which not only opens up the possibilities with more teams who still need a QB, but also, those teams can’t dangle a CB in front of us, forcing our hand on a mediocre trade.
Which corner would you target for this solution?
@McG
Honestly, Nnamdi would be the guy I would get most excited about, but I fully agree with Tommy that he would be extremely expensive, his age is certainly not ideal, and honestly, I think there is a fair argument to be made that signing him could be overkill at the CB spot. Johnathan Joseph talent-wise is certainly below Nnamdi, but he is still a good corner, is younger, and should come cheaper (although I imagine there will still be a tough market for him as well).
In terms of DRC, I would actually be very happy with him coming here in a trade for Kolb. My point from earlier though is that waiting that long to solve our CB issues would be extremely risky because if the trade talks should fall through, the free agent market may have dried up and we could be left in an even worse spot than last year at RCB.
I may be very wrong, but I don’t buy the Nnamdi getting 18 million thing. I think the real number is going to be something like 12-13…still expensive, but not high end QB #s. Guess we’ll see.
Funny, I cringed a little when you wrote the “worm-burner” joke at the end of yesterday’s blurb… but I thought to myself, no, folks will get it, Lawlor is really making fun of the “worm-burner” jokes themselves—not McNabb. But sure enough, some folks probably misinterpreted your intent in several directions…
My point is this: a case can be made that a great percentage of McNabb’s “worm-burners” were intentional low throws into or away from coverage to avoid the possibility of interception… High-percentage groundings, if you will…with McNabb seeing something ahead of him coming up on the play he didn’t like.
McNabb has hinted at this theory in past interviews but has never explicitly confirmed it.
Certainly McNabb’s lifetime INT percentage is among the best of all quarterbacks who have ever played more than 10 years… Maybe there was more to those low throws sometimes than we knew about…
@ Carl…
You’re absolutely right about McNabb’s low INT rate being definitely helped by the low throws. No question about that.
When he erred, he erred low.
Part was by design, but part due to poor mechanics. He didn’t always have the best stride as he went into his throws and that affected the timing and release point, which led to low throws.
When Donovan’s mechanics are perfect, he can throw as pretty a pass as any QB I’ve ever seen.
Tommy, you don’t need to defend your style of writing. You jokes are far from crossing any line a rational person would draw, and your track record stands by itself.
There is no accounting for people without a sense of humor. I think it may become a medically recognized condition in the coming years. Either that, or natural selection will weed those people out of the gene pool, since they can’t be much fun on dates.
I have to say that I’ve been quite reluctant to be paying so much money for signing Aso. But after reading this very interesting article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/06/23/most.important.stat.passer.rating.differential/index.html?sct=nfl_t11_a0
I gotta say: sign this guy! If the Eagles can tighten up its secondary and if Vick can keep his pro bowl form from last year, they might be able to finish first in passer rating differential and finally win the Super Bowl.
The poeple who are saying the Cardinals wouldn’t trade DRC because they want to have two quality starting CBs are discounting the fact that former Steelers DB coach Ray Horton is now the Cardinals’ defensive coordinator. New coaches often want their guys and Ike Taylor is an unrestricted free agent. I could easily see Arizona making a strong play for Taylor and then trading DRC for Kolb.
@eagles nut
Good point. I had briefly considered a variation on that theme (that AZ could sign a vet FA corner to mentor Peterson, then trade DRC), but felt like guys like Taylor and Rogers would have to wait (briefly) while the 1st wave of CBs (Nnamdi, Johnathan, Marshall, etc.) sign wherever, and by then, the Eagles will have wanted to have their guy already in place. That is, unless they really do have this deal worked out in advance with Arizona.
I’m still of the thought that just going ahead and signing Nnamdi makes the most sense, but the DRC rumor definitely has merit.
Didn’t this blog create the DRC rumor? Honestly, what credibility does it have?
I want Patrick Peterson for Kolb. Strait up. I’m not sure I understand why he doesn’t seem to be getting mention as a legit target. Who’s to say the Cards and the Eagles didn’t get together and say listen you draft PP and we’ll deal you Kolb for him strait up once the CBA mess gets sorted out?
@Stephen
I would love that trade, but even if the Cards wanted to do that, which I doubt, I am not sure it is even possible for them to do. I don’t pretend to understand how all of this works, but here is an article that Sam posted a while back on why trading for a player post-draft is not likely:
http://igglesblitz.com/philadelphia-eagles-2/on-trading-picks-post-nfl-draft/
Keep joking Tommy… Anyone that doesnt have a sense of humor isnt worth the time, no need to explain yourself.
@ Stan
I don’t think Tommy intended to “start a rumor” with the DRC speculation. He was just putting out a rational, plausible trade scenario. DRC for Kolb makes sense. That’s the foundation for a good rumor.
It’s also been going around for a while. DRC’s name was floated in die-hard Eagles circles about three seconds after Nnamdi and Jon Joseph.
@mcud, I’m with you re: Nnamdi’s contract. If Revis is much younger and got 4 years/$46 million with $18 of it payable in a roster bonus in Year 2 (2011) and $26 of it guaranteed, I don’t see how an about-to-turn 30 Nnamdi can command $54 million in 3 seasons (or $18 mil a year).
Assuming NA’s contract is either front-loaded or heavy on guaranteed money because of his age, I can’t see it going for more than 4 years and $60 mil (15/season) … not that I know anything about contract numbers, just saying in comparison to Revis (not Julius Peppers) and with the CBA allowing free agency after 4 years again, the number of Plan B corners on the market should temper the bidding war.
What I’d really love to see/hear is some kind of indication from NA that he wants to be with Team X, Y or Z.*
* — in this algebraic equation, all letters = Philadelphia
I am very offended by the McNabb joke. Please don’t do that again.