PHI 24 , WAS 16

Posted: November 17th, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 263 Comments »

That was too close for comfort, but a big win nonetheless. The Eagles ended a long home losing streak. They essentially buried any hopes the Skins had of making a playoff run. And the Eagles claimed sole possession of 1st place in the NFC East.

Being atop the NFC East doesn’t have the cache that it used to. Nowadays it is the equivalent of being the smartest Burger King employee (a joke I can use since I once manned the Whopper station for part of a summer). Still, this team was 3-8 this time last year and all hope was gone. It might be a down year for the division, but I won’t apologize for enjoying seeing the Eagles in the top spot.

Today’s game was really like 2 games. The Eagles dominated the 1st half, leading 24-0 and basically having total control of the game. The Skins didn’t do much in the 3rd quarter, but they dominated the 4th quarter and made the game closer than it ever should have been.

Many fans are angry at Chip Kelly for getting too conservative in the 2nd half. Last week the Eagles put the game away with a workman-like running game. Kelly hoped to do the same thing this time, but the Skins played good D. One thing I wonder about is Nick Foles arm. It seemed to be bothering him in the 1st half. He didn’t throw much in the 2nd half and you wonder if that was the design of the offense or if his arm was really bugging him. I’ll need to watch the tape to check out his 2nd half throws.

The Eagles let this game get close, but still found a way to win. They pounded RG3 all game long and that paid off at the end, when he stupidly threw a ball up for grabs while under duress. Brandon Boykin made the pick to seal the win.

Trent Cole had 2 sacks. Connor Barwin had a strip sack and batted down a pass. They liked like the superior duo to Kerrigan-Orakpo. The Eagles defense was terrific at times. RG3 came alive in the 2nd half and was able to make some big plays in the passing game. Looked like the Eagles lack of top talent at CB was an issue. When a QB moves around and buys time, it becomes really hard to stick with WRs.

The defense has now held the last 7 opponents to 21 points or fewer. The Skins 16 points tied their season low. Scoreboard > yardage board.

Nick Foles and the offense looked great in the 1st half. Foles threw the ball short and intermediate, getting big plays both ways. Deep balls weren’t working but did stretch the defense and drew a couple of flags. Foles ran the ball well. He actually out-ran RG3 47 yards to 44 yards. Is that insane or what?

There is plenty to discuss about this game because of how the 2nd half went, but don’t lose sight of the fact the team won a tough game. Style points don’t count in the NFL like they do college football.

The Eagles now have a bye week, which they desperately need. This team has had some really banged up bodies in recent weeks. A week of rest is just what the doctors ordered. The team can get healthy as they prepare to stay in 1st place in the NFC East down the stretch. Sounds good, doesn’t it?

_


263 Comments on “PHI 24 , WAS 16”

  1. 1 Finlay Jones said at 5:30 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    first 35 minutes, 31 run ratio, 348 yards, 24 pts. last 25 minutes, 75 run ratio, 48 yards, 0 points. Cmon Chip.

  2. 2 Jeff M. said at 5:32 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Fire Chip. Should have hired Mike McCoy.

  3. 3 Finlay Jones said at 5:32 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Chip is a great coach, and was wholly responsible for us being on the way to blowing them out. but it’s the 2nd time this season he’s let up too early. Hopefully he never does it again.

  4. 4 Jerry Pomroy said at 5:44 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Especially against a guy that can move around & buy time.

    Chip: Note to self, keep foot on gas through 3.5Qtrs against RG3.

  5. 5 jshort said at 5:55 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    think he just likes effin with Shannahan

  6. 6 Maggie said at 7:28 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Why NOT save the heroics for next time? When the opponent may be tougher? Save your players’ bodies, too.

  7. 7 SteveH said at 6:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think its funny that both times we really let off the gas too early it was against the Skins. Was like groundhog day, only this time it was worse.

  8. 8 double_z said at 8:16 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    really?

  9. 9 Maggie said at 7:27 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Some people on this board just aren’t happy unless they’re whining. Some of the eagles were a bit banged up. Can’t you read? Some of the opposing team are pro football players, who were not about to lie down and die. AND, every team has uneven games, or games where they are fortunate to win. Grow up.

  10. 10 Finlay Jones said at 7:40 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Huh? What’s not grown up about, imo, legit criticism of a coach, while also in the same thread reiterating I think he’s a good coach? You know when discussing football, you are allowed to criticise things. I don’t think we were fortunate to win, and the only reason we had an uneven game was due to Kelly deciding to go totally conservative.

  11. 11 Anders said at 7:41 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Or maybe the Eagles players just didnt execute as well?

  12. 12 Finlay Jones said at 5:41 AM on November 18th, 2013:

    I thought chip was renowned for his in game adjustments? If the run game wasn’t working (2 total first downs in 25 minutes vs 31st scoring D), couldn’t he have gone back to the pass?

  13. 13 BlindChow said at 7:44 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Some people want to turn this into a compliments-only board. YOU’RE ON ALERT, PAL!

  14. 14 Anders said at 7:45 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    When has I ever said that? All I said was that I thought a lot of people was overly critical of things and wants put blame on Kelly on things he had no control over (he isnt the one getting flagged or not executing)

  15. 15 SleepingDuck said at 5:32 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Nick said that he got dinged up a little and was trying to keep his arm warm by moving it around in between plays.

  16. 16 Baloophi said at 5:35 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yeah that second half… it really felt like I was watching a different game. Like, it suddenly looked like Detroit vs. Pittsburgh.

  17. 17 laeagle said at 8:01 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I was on a call with Directv about to bitch them out. Finally the game started working on the 700 channels.

    Dumb, dumb, dumb decision by Fox to shift to a meanless, non division (non conference!) game in the 3rd. Dumb.

  18. 18 Daniel Norman Richwine said at 5:45 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I biiiiiig play by the skins, and a couple of big 3rd down stops lead the game being close. could have easily been a 4Q snore. Chip was right to play it safe.

  19. 19 ACViking said at 5:46 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Re: Boykin in the Slot

    T-Law:

    I hope you’ll talk more about why — when the Washington team — is going with just two WRs, Boykins on the bench in favor of Roc Carmichael.

    Why wasn’t Boykin on the outside and then moving inside against a 3-receiver set?

    I’m sorry, but I don’t understand the reasoning of Davis or the DB coach.

    Are they afraid Boykin’ll develop bad habits?

    Light on this subject, please?

  20. 20 deg0ey said at 6:15 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    To quote Billy Davis from earlier in the week:

    “It’s in our opinion as a staff and my opinion that I need Boykin to be a great nickel, and we feel as a staff that it lessens his ability to play nickel if he’s playing corner and nickel every down both inside and outside.

    Some guys can do it in the NFL, and I just believe right now for Boykin to be the best nickel — because I need a dominant nickel in there for all the third downs and two‑minutes — and it was better for us putting Roc outside and handling that. Kind of compartmentalizing their roles to make them better at each role, and I felt that was the way it was going to be best for all of us, and I think it did work out.

    Boykin had a great game as a nickel, and I think Roc played a nice job outside at corner. A nickel is a starting position on this defense, and I want Boykin to be great at it.”

    http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/boykin-sees-himself-more-slot-corner

  21. 21 deg0ey said at 6:19 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    And to get Chip’s perspective (from the same article):

    “They’re two totally different positions, playing the nickel corner and playing the outside corner,” he said. “It’s like ‘Why doesn’t Connor Barwin move to inside linebacker when Mychal Kendricks goes down?’ Outside linebacker and inside linebacker are two totally different positions. Nickel corner and outside corner are two different positions.”

    The overall feeling I get from these comments is that if Roc was performing like Jaiquawn Jarrett then Boykin would be out there, but since he’s putting together some decent play then they’d rather let BB stick to the one thing.

  22. 22 DarthBanner said at 5:46 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Another blown challenge opportunity by Chip and co. What is the excuse this time? The home stadium didn’t get you the replay? Big win, but the obvious coaching mistakes must stop.

  23. 23 Anders said at 5:49 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think Kelly is saving them for high leverage situations. I dont think he sees an 8 yard gain on a first down from the skins 20 yard line as that

  24. 24 DarthBanner said at 5:54 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    That would hold water if he didn’t miss two challenges on critical plays last week. I realize its not all Chip, which is why I said Chip and co. However Chip is the head coach, and whatever the system is currently it is failing them miserably, so its his call to fix it.

  25. 25 Anders said at 5:56 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    They admitted they missed em last week.

  26. 26 DarthBanner said at 5:57 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    And they changed nothing and had the same problems again, which makes it worse.

  27. 27 Anders said at 5:59 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    When I say missed, they said they didnt get the right feed.

  28. 28 jshort said at 6:06 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Homer Simpson in replay booth,,,,some kind of deal with fox

  29. 29 DarthBanner said at 6:09 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yeah? The dog ate my homework….

  30. 30 Anders said at 6:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    to be honest, its pretty common for the away team to not have the right feed or the things not working. Of course cant use that at home.

  31. 31 deg0ey said at 6:21 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    It holds water anyway – it’s two different issues. They missed some important challenges last week and that was bad. They chose not to use one of their challenges on a trivial call this week in case they needed it later and that’s a reasonable call.

  32. 32 BlindChow said at 6:49 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    If they purposely didn’t use a challenge because they thought it didn’t matter, that’s one thing. But if they didn’t use a challenge because they had no idea he stepped out of bounds, that could be a continuation of last week’s issues, and therefore a legitimate concern.

  33. 33 Joe Minx said at 5:49 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    That’s up to the people in the booth, probably Shurmur. Chip doesn’t know what to do in that situation unless they tell him. It’s inexcusable though.

  34. 34 bdbd20 said at 5:47 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I actually like the conservative gameplan in the 2nd half. Many things had to happen for Washington to tie. Chip played the percentages. Certainly it could have backfired, but he won the game (and the earlier Wash game also).

  35. 35 Jerry Pomroy said at 5:53 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Don’t mind the conservatism, but need the RBs running North/South to sustain drives in second half of you’re trying to protect lead.

  36. 36 xeynon said at 6:01 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Indeed. I was more pissed at Shady for trying to turn everything into a spectacular 65 yard TD rather than just taking what was there and settling for grinding things out with 3 and 4 yard runs than I was at the playcalling. It was like he wanted to be Barry Sanders when would have been better off with Emmitt Smith.

  37. 37 Jerry Pomroy said at 6:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I believe Brown also tried to go wide left & got caught in the backfield for a loss & it forced us to punt. It’s an all too common issue. Square your shoulders & hit the gaps. Against the inside zone the key for defenders is to get into the backfield as quickly as possible.

    We’ve got Shifty Shady & Be-Bop Brown, but we need a situational pound it up the gut back that can knock defenders back.

  38. 38 bdbd20 said at 6:17 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    The only issue that I had with the backs was the 4th and 1. The call was not the greatest either. If we convert that, chances are we kick a FG and the end of the game is a moot point.

  39. 39 xeynon said at 8:35 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yeah that is a fair point. I never want to see them line up in the shotgun on 4th and 1 again. That’s a situation where old time football with three TEs in the game and a lead blocker in the backfield (Casey could do it as he played some FB for the Texans) is preferable to gimmickry.

  40. 40 Joe Minx said at 5:51 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    We’re still getting KILLED by in-breaking routes & slants. Honestly if I were an opposing OC I would dial them up on every series because we haven’t shown that we can stop one yet.

  41. 41 ACViking said at 5:51 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Re: Nick Foles

    I like watching him in this offense. I really like Foles in the 2-minute drill. He’s so comfortable.

    (I thought he was more comfortable today than any previous game — but that seemed to change when he stopped throwing the ball.)

    But I’m watching Seattle v. Minn. Russell Wilson’s combination of mobility, arm-strength, and accuracy are impressive.

    Oh well. I expect Roseman to add someone like that in May 2014.

  42. 42 xeynon said at 6:03 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    If Foles keeps playing this well, adding a quarterback is not going to be the top priority, for a few reasons. First, there are other, more pressing holes on the team. Second, guys with Russell Wilson’s combination of attributes tend to be top 5 picks and this team isn’t going to have one of those in the 2014 draft.

  43. 43 jshort said at 6:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    hehehe notice AC didn’t mention what round, or they could resign Vick in May

  44. 44 BlindChow said at 6:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    RG3 was thought to have those qualities, and he’s been more up-and-down than Foles.

    Really, I don’t think Kelly abandons Foles if he keeps the offense rolling like this, unless someone unexpectedly falls to us. Maybe he drafts a project in the later rounds.

  45. 45 Baloophi said at 6:15 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Agree here, per my rambling/rhetorical response to Xeynon…

  46. 46 Baloophi said at 6:14 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    And even when those guys are top 5 picks, they’re not a sure bet (as evidence, consider where Wilson himself was drafted).

    AC and I were talking draft last week and I brought up Russell Wilson in a hypothetical:

    If you could somehow simply steal him and insert him into our offense, how much better do you think the team would be? Second question: Is that improved performance (however you define it) worth the risk, the resources, and the opportunity cost to pursue when there other areas of the team we could improve?

  47. 47 ACViking said at 6:20 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think about a Russell Wilson only in the context of what I believe Kelly really wants — or ideally wants.

    Whether Kelly, in reality, goes after someone like Wilson is a separate question, I think.

  48. 48 Baloophi said at 6:21 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Very fair. I have some thoughts on that from a different angle… writing into a new post above…

  49. 49 Anders said at 6:21 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I find it hard to really evaluate Wilson. He rarely stands in the pocket and goes through his progression

  50. 50 xeynon said at 8:42 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Ideally, I’m sure Kelly wants a 6’6″, 275 pound quarterback who bench presses 500 pounds, runs the 40 in 4.25, can throw the ball on a line 80 yards in the air, shrugs defenders off like flies, and knows offensive football so well he can predict what the defense is going to do on every play. It’s not a question of “ideally” though, it’s a question of “realistically and at reasonable cost”. If Foles develops into a Pro Bowl-level passer with enough functional mobility to keep the defense honest, I’m sure Chip will settle for that and concentrate on improving the defense or injecting some youth into the offensive line instead.

  51. 51 Jerry Pomroy said at 6:26 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Considering the package (King’s ransom) that WASH paid to move up and grab RG3, that being three 1st rounders & a 2nd. No thanks. I think we’d be much better served keeping those to build this team from within & then if you do end up needing a QB, you take a shot AFTER you’ve added young talent.

    But what if you don’t need a QB after you’ve addressed other positions via the draft? Ahh, then the grass looks oh so much greener.

  52. 52 BlindChow said at 6:43 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Wilson has had some rough games, looking at his stats over the year. Hard to say how he’d be doing if he had our defense (and home stadium) instead of Seattle’s.

  53. 53 SteveH said at 6:11 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Gotta wonder about the arm thing, looked to be bothering him a bit in the second half. I thought he threw the ball well in the 2nd half too though. I think we eased up on the tempo and that took the whole offense out of its rhythm.

  54. 54 shah8 said at 7:35 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Oh, man, I was stunned by some of Wilson’s passes. That one to Harvin, and that Golden Tate TD at the end of the half. Complete accuracy and touch by like, maybe 2 inches, and certainly less than six.

  55. 55 shah8 said at 7:36 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I was decidedly traumatized by Ponder yet again. Outside of one play, one of his worst games…

  56. 56 Howard Humetewa said at 5:51 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Is it just me, or is Cary Williams playing horribly right now? I get his toughness and the need for that, but he’s a liability in coverage, and is non-existent in run support

  57. 57 Finlay Jones said at 5:53 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He sucks…. but he’s better than aso and drc last year. A legit need for the team, though.

  58. 58 Michael Winter Cho said at 6:55 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I was performing at an Art Fair in Tempe, AZ today and I saw some guy in an Eagles jersey. He turned around and it was an Asomugha.

  59. 59 Baloophi said at 7:01 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Was he eating alone in his car?

  60. 60 BlindChow said at 7:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    That could’ve actually been Asomugha.

  61. 61 Baloophi said at 7:16 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Now that’s REALLY lost in coverage…

    Though I’m sure it was Coleman’s fault.

  62. 62 sprawl said at 9:43 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Pro shopping tip here.

    If you’re ever at a grocery checkout line and there’s a guy in front of you with a Nnamdi jersey you’re technically allowed to walk right by him.

    Don’t be alarmed when he starts pointing at other shoppers though…

  63. 63 sprawl said at 9:43 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Pro shopping tip here.

    If you’re ever at a grocery checkout line and there’s a guy in front of you with a Nnamdi jersey you’re technically allowed to walk right by him.

    Don’t be alarmed when he starts pointing at other shoppers though…

  64. 64 Anders said at 5:53 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Garcon had 6 catches for 68 yards with Williams covering him most of the time.

  65. 65 Jerry Pomroy said at 5:59 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I now live in Baltimore area & when we signed him, the Ravens fans didn’t fret b/c of his inability to play man coverage & consistently get beat in pivotal downs. Their words.

    He’s not a lockdown corner & likes to keep everything in front of him because he’s a better tackler than he is one on one in coverage.

  66. 66 xeynon said at 6:05 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He’s not a very talented cover man and certainly won’t shut down an elite receiver, but he plays hard, competes, and is a sound tackler. I’d rather have a guy like that than a supremely athletic-but-soft player like DRC.

  67. 67 Howard Humetewa said at 10:27 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I didn’t like the way he took himself out of a run by Morris, just buried his head in the receivers chest and Morris ran by, no instinct to find the ball.

  68. 68 SteveH said at 6:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He was never a good cover guy, we knew that going into the season, but I think his tackling and run support has been fine. He’s just a stopgap player anyhow, low salary vet to hold down the fort until more talent comes in.

  69. 69 jshort said at 6:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Plans on paying off his house and sconces with his playoff and SB money

  70. 70 bsuperfi said at 8:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    CB is a position where we need a serious upgrade. Assuming we don’t target QB early, I’d be surprised if CB wasn’t a mega early pick for us.

  71. 71 Corry said at 5:58 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    That’s a game we found a way to lose last year, but still, that was way too close for comfort.

    In the first half, it just felt like we were watching something special with the way Foles was playing. It was great to see, but man did that come to a screeching halt. I thought Chip went way too conservative, but McCoy was just as guilty for trying to turn everything into a big play. Sometimes just getting 1 yard is better than the alternative.

    I can’t overlook the fact that the OLine started to play poorly as well. Lots of teaching points, but man does it feel good to still be relevant in November.

  72. 72 Anders said at 6:01 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    One thing for sure. Eagles fans are the most negative fan base in the NFL. Even after a good win, is most of the talking about nitpicking things.

    ENJOY THE FUCKING WIN!!!!

  73. 73 BlindChow said at 6:02 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    HOW DARE YOU DISCUSS THE GAME ON A GAME-DISCUSSION FORUM!!!

    Seriously, though, I wouldn’t call this a “good” win.

  74. 74 Anders said at 6:06 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Okay to talk about the game, but an outsider would think we got destroyed and Kelly is the worst coach in the history of the NFL.

  75. 75 BlindChow said at 6:38 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Are we really worried about what outsiders think?

    People have concerns about the team (the defense collapsing big time in the 4th, the questionable challenge process, the inability to move the ball late in the game), and it makes sense they want to share those concerns.

    If you wish to challenge their questions, go ahead, or seriously, just ignore them. But come on, saying people should just shut their traps because they’re harshing your buzz? Bottling up emotions is what causes people to shoot up their workplace, yo!

  76. 76 Anders said at 8:01 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    it was a metaphor.

    also people are fucking complain just to fucking complain.

    We have no problem moving the ball in the 4 qrt against the Packers or Bucs, so we had a little problems today?

    My problem is people are completely ignoring why we didnt move the ball and just complain about it.
    If people didnt buy into the BS thing about letting the foot of the gas (we didnt do the stand around thing until the 11 min left in the 4th) and actually looked at all those penalties or the crappy execution even when we ran the hurry up in the 3rd quarter.

  77. 77 BlindChow said at 8:16 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I got the sense that the playcalling got very conservative in the 3rd quarter (the run-pass balance shifted heavily towards the run when it wasn’t effective). This happened in the first Redskins game as well. We’ve lost games this way, and this one came very close, and it’s understandable to me that fans were stressed during the final quarter and feel it was avoidable, considering how great the first 3 quarters looked.

    But I definitely agree better execution was a major part of why the running wasn’t working (for that matter, even the passes seemed to always be short of the first down marker; I don’t know if that was Foles not wanting to turn the ball over or what).

    Even so, my response to you wasn’t about you disagreeing with people. It’s that you were yelling at them to STFU because they had a different opinion in the first place.

  78. 78 laeagle said at 8:22 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    See, I think that’s the crux of the issue. Was it actually a case of conservative play calling, or poor execution? Everyone wants to say it’s conservative play calling, but what does that mean? Lots of runs? I don’t think running is necessarily an indicator for “conservative” play calling, not in a Chip Kelly offense.

    The issue is that Washington came storming back, and people want to assume that it’s because of “conservative play calling”, when that is not necessarily the case, or borne out by the facts. Not saying it is or it isn’t, just that people are jumping to the assumption because it’s convenient and they’re naturally pessimistic.

  79. 79 BlindChow said at 8:37 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think the game reviews will be instructive in these cases. Were there obvious failures by the linemen keeping the run game from flourishing? Did Washington just have too many guys in the box? And do you keep trying to run even when the run isn’t getting you first downs?

    What is undeniable is the playcalling shifted heavily towards the run in the 2nd half, so it was clearly a shift in strategy. Trying to run out the clock (which worked against TB and OAK) would be the obvious explanation; would that not fit under the definition of “conservative?”

  80. 80 laeagle said at 8:39 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think running out the clock would fit under the definition of “smart”.

  81. 81 BlindChow said at 8:42 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    “Smart” and “conservative” aren’t mutually exclusive.

    I’d say running out the clock is considered smart because of its conservatism. But it only works if you don’t keep going 3 and out.

  82. 82 Anders said at 8:55 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    We did seem to run into a lot of 7 man boxes, something we normally do not do.

    I say play calling got a little to run heavy and we simply didnt execute the called plays. We had several 1st downs called back because of penalties and then we wouldnt get the next one. That really hurts any offense.

  83. 83 Cafone said at 6:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I go to the games. Try the ride home from the stadium for over a year of losses and then tell me this wasn’t a good win.

  84. 84 Anders said at 6:14 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Also what wasnt good about? Outside the FB catch, the D look really good and the offense was deadly for 3 quarters.

  85. 85 laeagle said at 8:18 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I certainly don’t think it’s a bad win. A bad win was the first washington game. This was the case of a good offensive team waking up, and our defense shutting them down. At the end of the day, we held a top 5 offense to 16 points. I fail to see any real reason for disaster, and this was not the case of “backing off”. Merely some imperfections in execution by our offense in the second half (close but not quite there), and a solid effort to keep the dogs at bay.

    I think it’s fine to criticize the team. I just don’t see nearly as much to criticize as other people in this case. This was NOT the same as the first Washington game. It bore a vague resemblance, but this was simply not in the same league in terms of being a “collapse” of any kind.

  86. 86 BlindChow said at 8:30 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yeah, I wouldn’t say “bad” (since they performed well for 3 quarters), but I wouldn’t say “good,” either.

    Actually, it was VERY close to the defensive collapse of the first Redskins game. 16 points (two 2-pt conversions!) in the 4th quarter, and they were easily driving for another 6 with a chance to tie. Obviously, Boykin came through, but for me a “good” win doesn’t involve a struggle to hold back a 3-6 team until the final minute of the game.

  87. 87 laeagle said at 8:33 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    It’s a good win to me when it’s against a very good offense, we’re down 3 of our best players in coverage on D, and (most importantly) it’s a division game. A 3-6 record doesn’t mean NEARLY as much in divisional games. Not in the East. Never has.

  88. 88 BlindChow said at 8:40 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’d probably agree with you if the Eagles hadn’t been so dominant for the first 3 quarters. The fact it got close at the end was the let-down for me.

    Remember, besides having a great offense, they also have one of the worst defenses in the league; we couldn’t move the ball at all against them in the 4th.

  89. 89 laeagle said at 8:43 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Let’s be clear: I’m not happy with the offensive production in the 4th quarter. I think it’s a matter of execution rather than some kind of systemic flaw of Kelly’s, though. And I’m not going to get mad at them for not being super awesome for 1 quarter when they were so good for 3.

    My point is that there is room to improve, and the team should focus on improving execution, rather than trying to find some sort of major flaw with the coaching or team.

  90. 90 BlindChow said at 8:50 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Eh, has anyone said it was a systemic flaw? Does Kelly’s system demand they increase their run percentage in the 3rd quarter?

    I guess “not being super awesome” is one way to describe the awfulness we saw in the 4th…

  91. 91 Midnight_Greenville said at 9:08 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Personally, I don’t think there is win that isn’t “good” or loss that isn’t “bad.” I’m willing to accept that some wins are “great” and some losses are “horrible” but that’s really just a matter of degree. I would certainly be interested to hear a rational definition for a win that isn’t good.

    And, if you can do that, I would be even more impressed if someone could find a way to define this win–with the pressure of the home losing streak, with first place on the line, in a division game, missing 3 key defensive starters against a top 5 offense–as anything but extremely good.

  92. 92 OregonDucker said at 6:03 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yeah, perfection is demanded but not possible. The Eagles always have chance with Shady, Djax, and Foles in the game. Not to mention an opportunistic D.

  93. 93 Michael Jorden said at 6:56 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Totally agree. Most people get that this is a flawed team right now. They’re building, new coach new schemes, some players fit and some are stop gaps. We’re not going to be perfect, but the performances that they have put together have flashed what we might expect in the future. Honestly, they’re performing way better than I would have imagined.

  94. 94 ACViking said at 6:15 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    And after a loss? We should be limited to wallowing in self-pity?
    ________________

    I like discussing the nitty-gritty of what I saw (or think I saw) and viewing the game in the broader context of the season and the off-season.

    But that’s just me.

    I’ve already lived through 3 epochs in Eagles history of “just enjoy” the wins.

  95. 95 Anders said at 6:17 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Its okay to discuses the game, but some of the comments on here, twitter and BGN, are really depressing.

    Rather talk right after the win and then we can talk negative during the week about what could be changed.

  96. 96 ACViking said at 6:23 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    A —

    The reason I comment on this blog almost exclusively is precisely for the reason you just outlined.

    (I was kidding about the wallowing comment. I hope you understood that.)

    I like your thoughts, comments, and push back.

  97. 97 Always Hopeful said at 7:54 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Amen!

  98. 98 jshort said at 6:18 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    my 3yr old gasped when he read that….how dare you say nitpicking.

  99. 99 Baloophi said at 6:04 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Really impressed with the defense. Sure, things got dicey near the end, but this is the NFL… there will be no second half white flags from the opponent.

    Remember, no Kendricks, no Bradley Fletcher, no Wolff…

  100. 100 Baloophi said at 6:06 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Also, Connor Barwin for President?

  101. 101 ACViking said at 6:27 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He has kind of a presidential name — in a Grover Cleveland, Chester Arthur, Franklin Delano Roosevelt sort-of-way.

  102. 102 Baloophi said at 6:32 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’m just saying there’s room here… on the outside, obviously.

  103. 103 Baloophi said at 6:32 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    And, ironically, he has been rushing more.

  104. 104 ACViking said at 6:34 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Clearly on the outside. Cincinnati, Ohio connection may explain the boost.

  105. 105 Baloophi said at 6:46 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Barwin born in Detroit, which would make him the first native-born Michigan president (Ford was actually born in Nebraska).

    Of course, had Barwin been born in Ohio, he would be the ninth President to hail from the buckeye state.

    This mercifully concludes our Connor Barwin / Presidential history for the day…

  106. 106 ACViking said at 6:50 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Okay, I can take a hint.

  107. 107 xeynon said at 8:48 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    On a Presidential note, it’s about time Pennsylvania produced another one. Having James Buchanan, the Brad Goebel of Presidents, as your lone native to occupy the White House is a sad state of affairs.

  108. 108 D3FB said at 1:30 AM on November 18th, 2013:

    Dickinson College alumni standup!

  109. 109 laeagle said at 8:24 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Man, Barwin, Cox, and Ryans are all coming on strong. And Cole, too! It’s nice to see some of the potential get realized for once.

  110. 110 xeynon said at 8:46 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Actually, I think Barwin has a future as a sitcom actor. He’d be great as the wacky neighbor who’s always barging in uninvited and interrupting the main character’s attempts to get work done, romance women, etc.

  111. 111 Anders said at 6:09 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    HAHA, Seahawks fans are hating on me for saying Wilson isnt that good consider the team he plays on

  112. 112 SteveH said at 6:16 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’d love to see Wilson on a team that didn’t have the kind of run game he has. I feel like almost everything he does is only possible because they can run the ball smash mouth style at will.

  113. 113 Anders said at 6:18 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    yea, I also dared to tell them that most of Wilson’s offense came on him scrambling around. When its what he does.
    Difference between Wilson and Vick is simply Wilson makes smart decisions after scrambles where Vick often made terrible ones.

  114. 114 BlindChow said at 6:52 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He’s had some bad games this year. Most have been wins anyway. I think his defense has a lot to do with it, too.

  115. 115 Anders said at 6:54 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He have had several bad games, but his stats have still looked good because of a few miracle plays.

    A lot of Wilson’s play reminds me of the Foles Packers game.

  116. 116 ACViking said at 6:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    A —

    I don’t disagree too much. But the show he put on in Atlanta last post-season was damned impressive.

    On the other hand — and this may explain how the Eagles rated him a 3rd Rounder — he couldn’t complete a simple sideline pass at the 2012 Senior Bowl.

    I like his mobility and calm, though.

  117. 117 Anders said at 6:26 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    As I just said below. Wilson is very much like Vick, except with less arm strength (tho Wilson’s is more than good enough) and Wilson actually makes good decisions when he scrambles.

    Right now Wilson is simply not going through his progression like a Luck or Foles

  118. 118 Baloophi said at 6:30 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    How good is LeSean McCoy?

    I ask not in a fashion that begs for superlatives, but because I’m curious how important his specific ability is to this offense.

    Nick Foles ran for 44 yards today using intelligent keepers off the read option (as he did judiciously during last week’s 9:32 drive to seal the win). He was able to do that because defensive ends were completely selling out to stop McCoy… after McCoy had danced around them all game.

    If we had an average running back, theoretically those yards wouldn’t have been available to Foles. I like Foles and want to seem him continue as the starter… BUT, if McCoy went down or magically aged between this year and next, how much would that affect Foles, both as a passer and as an infrequent but frustrating “first down” runner?

    Relating to posts below about Chip’s ideal quarterback and Russell Wilson, I wonder if we didn’t have McCoy, whether Kelly would have a greater yen for a mobile quarterback. I believe Chip when he says he can make whatever he has works (and we’re seeing that in action), but I really wonder if the calculus changes dramatically without a star running back.

  119. 119 ACViking said at 6:31 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    You have posed a question I’ve asked in prior game-day comments that have been lost in the string.

    It’s a huge question. Huge.

    Sonny Corleone Huge

  120. 120 Baloophi said at 6:36 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    A lot of gold gets lost in the string. Apologies if I’m poaching your query, but it will be imperative when approaching the draft, huh?

    This will, of course, be great fodder for the bye week…

  121. 121 ACViking said at 6:40 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    B–

    I’m really glad you’ve raised the question in a post-game calm. No apology necessary at all. At all.

    Keep asking . . . because so many offensive yards come off of ankle-breaking plays by McCoy that can’t be duplicated by anyone in the NFL or college.

    It’s a critical question that definitely touches on:

    1. QB, and

    2. Slot Receiver — whom I think will be DeA Thomas next year for the Eagles if they can get him. The guy looked great against Utah as a slot receiver this past Saturday.

  122. 122 mksp said at 6:42 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Think DAT falls to 2nd round? Can’t imagine using our first rounder on him.

  123. 123 ACViking said at 6:47 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Who knows where the Eagles will pick.

    And how Roseman sets the board . . . based on Kelly’s criteria.

    Kelly’s dictates may elevate DAT to a late 1st.

    He’s on a different page than the rest of us.

  124. 124 Baloophi said at 6:55 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think – to step away from McCoy for a second – the importance of an effective run game not only impacts QB and Slot (as you wisely suggest), but also the relative importance of the OL.

    If the success of your offense is critically dependent on an above-average run game, and you can never ensure (or insure!) a healthy McCoy or a steady stream of uber-talented RB’s, then should you commit resources to refresh, and maintain a young and athletic OL?

  125. 125 ACViking said at 6:56 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Damned great point about the O-line.

  126. 126 Michael Winter Cho said at 6:59 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    It’s interesting that a month ago, the conversation was whether Vick was necessary for Shady to work; now, somehow Shady is necessary for Foles to work. Maybe the answer is you need talent, somewhere, to win in this league.

  127. 127 Baloophi said at 7:08 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yeah, I was trying to figure out how to fold that discussion into this one, but it got twisted in my noggin.

    And good call about talent! That seems to be important no matter how you slice it.

    That being said, I think it’s clear (by now) that you don’t need a mobile quarterback for Shady to work in this offense. But I guess – to your point – the question is almost “do you need a Shady for anything in this offense to work?”

  128. 128 laeagle said at 8:29 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think the notion of Shady requiring a mobile quarterback to work was and is complete and utter nonsense. I don’t know how people got stuck on that. The list of successful running backs without mobile quarterbacks is FAR longer in NFL (present and history) than the list of those without a mobile quarterback.

  129. 129 Anders said at 8:59 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    People based it on his yard per carry with Kolb and Foles over Vick. He had a pretty significant split (over 5 with Vick and under 4 with Kolb/Foles before this year)

  130. 130 Baloophi said at 9:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’m surprised people were even using actual statistics! I assumed the “McCoy can’t run without Vick” arguments we’re all built around a misunderstanding of the read-option and a false understanding of the Chip Kelly offense requiring a mobile QB…

  131. 131 ICDogg said at 8:38 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    You need enough talented players to make it work, but I don’t know if they have to specifically have Shady’s particular skill set.

  132. 132 laeagle said at 8:27 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think it’s all about the O-Line. I think their consistency this year has been a major factor in our success. And last year proved the converse, much to our collective dismay.

  133. 133 bsuperfi said at 8:20 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Shady’s one of the best backs in the NFL, maybe even no. 2 behind AP. But I don’t think you need someone on Shady’s level to make the offense “work”. He’s explosive but gets caught dancing too much (maybe like Chip’s offense in general). Along with the O-line, he clearly makes the passing game better. Though a back like Morris wouldn’t be so bad either.

    Here’s the thing: good QBs and RBs and O-line make each other better all the time if they’re working in a coherent system. If Shady breaks in a few years and Foles is still around, Foles is going to be better and defenses will need to adjust accordingly (opening up more for the run game).

    Sure, Kelly’s system is founded on the zone runs. Though with Foles, it seems to be slowly morphing (at least in emphasis). It’s the NFL, and passing plays and packaged plays with passes out of similar formations are tossed in liberally.

    There’s no easy answer to this question, but I tend to think it all starts with the QB/Point Guard, at least at this level.

  134. 134 Crus57 said at 6:34 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    While it’s not a perfect comparison because of differing playcalls etc., comparing Bryce Brown’s production and McCoy’s is a good place to start when making a case for how good Shady is.

  135. 135 ACViking said at 6:36 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Not a question of how good McCoy is.

    I think (unless I misunderstood), the question is what if McCoy was bear-napped by aliens tomorrow.

    What happens to this offense?

    And what kind of QB does Kelly want?

  136. 136 Baloophi said at 6:37 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Exactly. And to Crus57’s point, we can try to project when Shady is out of the game, but the real key would be to see Kelly’s game-planning sans McCoy, and its relative success

  137. 137 anon said at 8:17 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think the whole scheme is based on the run. But frankly he’d just have to be servicable even a guy like A. Mo, E. Lacy, D. Martin, etc would be fine b/c usually we run between the tackles and you have to get those contested yards. Shady however is the most fun to watch.

  138. 138 McNabbulousness said at 6:33 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    great fucking win, and i think we’ve got a great shot at kicking Bye’s ass next week!

  139. 139 Baloophi said at 6:34 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Let’s take it one bye at a time…

  140. 140 xeynon said at 8:51 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    The early line has the Eagles favored by 5.5 over the bye week. I won’t be comfortable until I know whether it’s going to be held at the Linc or on the road however.

  141. 141 Weapon Y said at 6:33 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    We won’t ever really feel safe with a lead (unless it’s a monster lead) until the Eagles get a corner who can play press coverage on the outside. The “Bend but don’t break strategy” is a good expedient, but in the long run, offenses will eventually put together a big drive with a bunch of small plays. It’s nice having corners who can take away the deep ball (unlike Nnamdi and DRC), but it would be much better to have a dominant guy who can jam guys at the line of scrimmage. CB and OLB are my two biggest priorities this offseason.

  142. 142 McNabbulousness said at 6:36 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    agree, and it didn’t help anything by having fletch and kendricks out

  143. 143 Michael Jorden said at 7:04 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Or Wolff. I’m not too confident in Chung, Coleman or Anderson for extended amounts of time. You could argue that we missed him as much or more than Kendricks or Fletch with the play of Najee Goode and Roc C. Will be glad to get Wolff back when he’s ready.

  144. 144 jshort said at 6:38 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Love watching our D play in that small deadly space, inside the 10

  145. 145 McNabbulousness said at 6:39 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    the dreaded compressed accordion

  146. 146 ACViking said at 6:44 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Re: Speaking of Space

    Carey Williams gets relentless grief from lots of commenters.

    But in the RZ, he doesn’t seem to get victimized much at all.

    Not too many folks in these part remember Herm Edwards the CB for the Vermeil Eagles. The guy ran the 40 in 4.7. Couldn’t jump either.

    But he was big. 6’0″ 200lbs. In the RZ he was very tough. He lasted 9 years with the Birds. Very solid.

    (The Cowboys had a CB named Everson Walls. Attributes very similar to Edwards. A rookie free agent like Edwards. Lasted a long time in the NFL and — little remembered — is in 1990, Bill Parcells brought him to the NYG after Jimmy Johnson cut him. A smart player.)

    Thoughts?

  147. 147 ICDogg said at 6:47 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think we can do better than Cary Williams, but he’s serviceable.

  148. 148 ACViking said at 6:49 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Maybe.

    Eagles fans said that about Edwards — but he was there for 3 playoff runs and a SB game.

    Cowboys fans said that about Walls, but the guy played in 3 NFC title games and 6 post-seasons, plus a Giants SB win.

    You just never know.

  149. 149 jshort said at 7:07 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Soooo, your saying Cary Williams will someday be the head coach of the Jets.

  150. 150 Baloophi said at 7:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    MetLife Stadium could use some redecorating…

  151. 151 jshort said at 7:11 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    The hall of sconces…

  152. 152 D3FB said at 1:25 AM on November 18th, 2013:

    As long as he understands that you play to win the game.

  153. 153 Corry said at 6:49 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’m OK with Williams. The scouting report on him coming in was that he gave up more than his fair share of completions, but was a solid tackler and a physical player. He’s lived up to that.

    We can upgrade on him, but he seems to fit in nicely with Bill Davis’ D.

  154. 154 BlindChow said at 6:56 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    And he has made some plays this year. More than Nnamdi ever made…

  155. 155 A_T_G said at 6:52 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He is sort of an analogy for the team right now: tough, competitive, but upgradable.

  156. 156 ACViking said at 6:55 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Re: More on Boykin in the Slot

    I’m familiar with what Davis and Kelly have said about keeping Boykin inside — in the slot, that is.

    Their explanations (cited in comments above) are nice Hallmark Card-type rationales.

    I wouldn’t mind getting a more technical breakdown on the topic, that’s all.

    What exactly are the bad habits — because that has to be the concern — that Boykin will develop by moving outside on downs where the opposition has only 2 wideouts.

    If bad habits aren’t the concern, then what — beyond “we want him to be the best he can be,” which really tells me nothing of substance — is the justification.

  157. 157 Baloophi said at 7:11 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    No matter what happens, we should rename him depending on where he plays…

    – Slotkin
    – Edgekin

  158. 158 ACViking said at 7:19 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Dr. Slotkin? A fine dermatologist in AC for many years.

  159. 159 Baloophi said at 7:23 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’ll look him up next time I’m down the shore and need a skin tag removal or botox infusion.

  160. 160 ACViking said at 7:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    He’s retired to that great office in the sky

  161. 161 Baloophi said at 7:32 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    RIP, MD.

  162. 162 A Roy said at 8:15 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I thought Slotkin owned a deli in Sea Isle.

  163. 163 OregonDucker said at 7:23 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Correction: He was a proctologist.

  164. 164 BlindChow said at 7:11 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    This might be the same situation as Curry. Perhaps Boykin’s not doing something the coaches want. Or maybe his size is a concern for them. I understand being curious, I guess, but I don’t necessarily need them to air their dirty laundry on the subject.

  165. 165 laeagle said at 8:36 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think that Davis and Kelly were pretty darned specific about why they want to keep Boykin in the slot. Because they’re different skillsets and they want a strong slot guy. No mystery there.

  166. 166 BlindChow said at 8:45 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    ACViking was asking why Boykin was on the sideline when the Eagles are in their base defense, especially with Fletcher out.

    That has nothing to do with why he’s in the slot when they’re in nickel.

  167. 167 anon said at 8:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Why does it have to be a bad habit? He’s our best slot corner and that’s an area where we’ve been vulnerable all year. I think the drop off in slot-play-ability is significant. Additionally, Boykin’s speed and size matches better there.

    Additionally i’d prefer not to put Boykin on tall receivers — even if he can jump out of the building.

  168. 168 Baloophi said at 7:17 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Oh, and just in case anybody missed it, there’s an all new “Sleepy Hollow” tomorrow night.

  169. 169 Anders said at 7:19 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Have you heard about that new show Almost Human?

  170. 170 Baloophi said at 7:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    No! Tell me more!

  171. 171 Anders said at 7:27 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think Fox should air more commercials with it.

  172. 172 A Roy said at 8:14 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    There’s a new show?

  173. 173 sprawl said at 9:57 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Oh, that’s the new show with the @CleatusOnFox robot, right?

  174. 174 jshort said at 7:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Liked the one with Johnny Depp

  175. 175 laeagle said at 8:38 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    There’s also an adorable, scrappy little robot that Fox has adopted as a mascot. If you look closely at the bottom of your TV screen at any given point in a game, you might see him casually tossing a football from robot hand to robot hand. I think it’s a great way to get robotics fans interested in the game!

  176. 176 Baloophi said at 8:42 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Hey! We’re finally on the same schedule!

  177. 177 jshort said at 7:21 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    On what looked like a td to Cooper, Wondering why Chip doesn’t even think to challenge. Bah, screw it, run it in…..why waste the time

  178. 178 ACViking said at 7:27 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    It was 1st down.

    He still had 3 chances to get a half-a-yard on the ground out of the shotgun.

  179. 179 anon said at 8:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    yeah and good thing MB wasn’t in the game. Kelly generally gets As across the board both on and off the field, but he’s getting an F for challenging.

  180. 180 Baloophi said at 7:28 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Though a different scenario, it reminded me of rushing up to the line when Barkley fumbled.

    I think Kelly believes in catching the defense on their hells, for better or for worse.

    I’d love to see a risk/reward, “Eagles Rewind” style discussion about challenges. Losing time-outs is rough, but losing TD’s seems like it could be worse. Not an issue in this case, but let’s say we get a holding call, then a sack, and suddenly we’ve got a difficult Henery kick, and you’re look at 3 points instead of 7, etc…

  181. 181 jshort said at 7:30 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    That’s what I was thinking…..fumble…anything can happen down there.

  182. 182 Buge Halls said at 7:28 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I just have to wonder where we’d be now if we hadn’t wasted four games with the other QB. Woe more wins maybe?

  183. 183 Anders said at 7:29 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    If we had played like this for every game, we would be 10-1, maybe 9-2 or 8-3 because of those two Cowboys and Giants games

  184. 184 anon said at 8:09 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Obnoxious comment but we might have won the Chiefs game. I don’t think Foles would have played better than Vick in the Chargers game. The Broncos game is still an L.

  185. 185 Andy124 said at 8:11 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yup.

  186. 186 Anders said at 8:56 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    But this new defense would have meant we won the Chargers game.

    Broncos game would be a lose 10 times out of 10

  187. 187 sprawl said at 10:00 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Fair comment…
    Remember Foles was actually 0 for 1 in the red zone against the Chargers! (injurygate)

  188. 188 xeynon said at 8:54 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Vick wasn’t what kept them from winning games early in the season. It was much more the defense.

  189. 189 OregonDucker said at 7:29 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I love the Eagles, man. They, to a man, are trying their best to improve. They play hard and are competitive. They’re also exciting as hell. We should all be proud of these guys.

  190. 190 ACViking said at 7:47 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    OD:

    If you were around in 1976 — when UCLA’s Dick Vermeil arrived from the then-PAC 8 — you’d be be having deja vu all over again.

    No team played harder than those beleaguered and over-matched Eagles — in a pre-free agency era when teams like Dallas, LARams, Washington, the Vikings, Oakland, and of course Pittsburgh kept their great teams together for 10 years.

  191. 191 ICDogg said at 8:12 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    That’s when I started to get obsessed with the Eagles.

  192. 192 OregonDucker said at 8:30 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I was around then, and always loved Vermeil. He loved his players and the game. The game took a lot out of Vermeil, but he stayed in it for the team. A hell of a man and coach. Chip is a lot like Vermeil, and they are personal friends.

  193. 193 ICDogg said at 8:35 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Vermeil was on the WIP pregame show today. There wasn’t a lot of substance to the conversation but he is enthusiastic about the Eagles’ progress under Kelly, and how they are starting to do the little things right.

  194. 194 ACViking said at 9:09 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I didn’t know you were as ancient as I am . . .

  195. 195 OregonDucker said at 9:26 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’m a fossil AC but young at heart. This team keeps the blood flowing and hot!

  196. 196 disqus_jB7dl5fzvO said at 7:47 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Can I just ask you if you became a fan of this team when Chip came over (just curious because of your username)?

  197. 197 OregonDucker said at 8:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’m a Chip fanboy but I thought the Eagles had talent that needed to be unlocked. A perfect blueprint for a revolution in the NFL. I wanted, in a small way, to be all IN for the wild ride. You guys deserve a winner. Now you have hope. (But remember it is a rebuilding year, so no Super Bowl talk yet!)

  198. 198 ian_no_2 said at 7:58 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Nick Foles now has enough attempts to be the qualified NFL QB rating leader.

    Game MVP: Donnie Jones

  199. 199 Baloophi said at 7:59 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    24-0 Eagles, 4th Quarter, 13:08 left on the clock
    4th and 1 Eagles at Washington’s 38 yard line

    Anders and I respectfully disagreed (I hope!) about going for it in this situation. Generally speaking, I’m all for a more aggressive approach to 4th and short, but given the three score advantage, time left on the clock, and performance of the defense, I think if I had the headset I would have punted. Even if it goes into the end-zone, you’ve “gained” 18 yards for your defense, which up until that point, had pretty much shut things down.

    What do others think?

  200. 200 BlindChow said at 8:05 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I think going for it is the right call, especially with such a lead. I have questions about the playcall itself, though that might be hindsight.

    If our defense had continued shutting them down, the 18 yards wouldn’t have made a difference either way, and if we had converted the 4th and 1, we’d take more time off the clock and (probably) widen the lead. Plus, I think the odds significantly support going for it there.

  201. 201 Andy124 said at 8:10 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Agree on all counts. I think going for it is the right move there. Don’t care for the specific play call. QB sneak that all day long, especially with a 6’6″ qb.

  202. 202 Corry said at 8:11 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Or at least give the ball to Shady. I believe they ran Brown instead. Shady was attempting to bounce a lot outside, but when it comes to a play like that, I want my playmaker with the ball in his hands.

  203. 203 Baloophi said at 8:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    The call was certainly rough… shotgun (AC’s favorite short-yardage alignment)… give to Bryce “Where’s the Sideline?” Brown.

    I certainly felt like it was the wrong call in the moment, but through sober analysis could be convinced otherwise.

    Would anyone have considered a 55 yard field goal? What if we had a better kicker? That would put you up 4 scores…

  204. 204 Anders said at 8:51 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    a 55 yard FG is not automatic for any team and you give the Redskins even better field position (45 yard line instead of 38 yard).

    The Eagles have converted 83% in 3rd/4th and 1-2 yards to go. That is much higher chance of success than any kicker for 55 yards out (around 50-55% chance) add that on top of the Redskins been 25th in the NFL on defense on those situations and running with a power back like Bryce Brown is the right choice.

  205. 205 Baloophi said at 9:05 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Fair enough.

    Ignore the field goal option. I tossed that out there as yet another option that I hadn’t heard (if the goal is to put them out of reach, 4 scores is another option… I realize the low percentages).

    All of that being said, is there a yard line where you DO punt, even on 4th and 1? Everyone seems to be talking in absolutes re: 4th down percentages, but I assume nobody would advocate going for it on our own 20. But what if we’re on our own 38, or the 50? What’s another 12 yards if you’re okay turning the ball over at their 38?

    Please keep in mind that generally speaking, I’m all for aggression on 4th and short – NFL coaches don’t go for it nearly enough. BUT, the risk / reward calculation should shift not just in relation to field position, but to score and clock, no?

  206. 206 Anders said at 11:04 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    People often talk about no mans land. That is around your own 45 yard line to the other teams 30-35 (depending on your kicker), where a FG is a low chance of succes and a punt is so few net yards (consider chance for touch back). In this area you should always go for 4th and 1. 4 and 1 or 2 yards from to score should also always be the choice. Before the your own 45 yard line and after the 30-35, it really depends on game situation or if you can rush it (so no meassuring) so you can surprise the other team

  207. 207 BlindChow said at 12:22 AM on November 18th, 2013:

    Ooh, you should totally watch this video if you haven’t yet.

    The Coach Who Never Punts

    Fascinating story. Not sure it would work in the NFL, of course, but the theory behind it is mathematically sound.

    Also, and you may have seen this, but according to the Eagles Rewind 4th Down Decision Chart™, you go for it on 4th and 1 even at your own 1 yard line!

  208. 208 jshort said at 8:08 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Ahhh, I wanted them to go for it…right move would have been to punt. We were up by 24….Did come back to sort of bite.

  209. 209 jshort said at 8:11 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Did Shady go over the 1000 mark?….didn’t see his total.

  210. 210 Corry said at 8:12 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yes, just over I believe. 1010 or something like that.

  211. 211 jshort said at 8:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Peters was only off by one game.

  212. 212 double_z said at 8:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    dunno if this has been previously pointed out – too many comments, did a quick find n nothing – but to this point “One thing I wonder about is Nick Foles arm. It seemed to be bothering him in the 1st half. He didn’t throw much in the 2nd half and you wonder if that was the design of the offense or if his arm was really bugging him.” — somewhere in the 2nd quarter – i believe – the birds were @ about their 10/20 ish and nick was back in shotgun, and pre-snap he was working his arm in a throwing motion bout four or five times; like he was working out a kink or trying to loose up. actually thought that point to myself when i saw it, cause been there many times, as many of us here have, and thought to myself he dinged up. didnt connect 2 and 2 till reading tommy’s point above. wonder if its not related to the dallas debacle, and got aggravated somehow… just sprained my shoulder good bout 3 weeks ago, so can kinda relate, made me think…

  213. 213 P_P_K said at 9:15 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Saw the same thing with Nick and the arm movement. I can’t remember if that was before or after the killer sack by Fletcher.

  214. 214 BobSmith77 said at 9:26 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    It was the same drive and I think 2 plays after it. Kind of play where a QB can easy dislocate or at the very least get a bad stinger.

  215. 215 Anders said at 9:28 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    It happened before. It was one of the first plays in the game where he threw deep for Cooper.

  216. 216 Anders said at 9:20 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Nick just said it was sore and he just did it too keep it warm.

  217. 217 CrackSammich said at 8:22 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Najee Good looks solid. Could be a starter in time.

    Carmichael doesn’t have it. That tells you all you need to know about Marsh.

    Chung is a noticeable step down from Wolff. Got abused in the passing game, and he was tossed like Coleman on some of the run stops.

    I’ve got no problems with Carey Williams. Sure you could find better, but he’s doing his job just fine. No lack of heart or try.

  218. 218 bsuperfi said at 8:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I’m not sure if Najee can rise to the level of more than adequate starter. But I’d sure like one of those LBs that is good on ST, can play multiple positions, and just acts like a leader. Guys like Ike Reese are hard to find.

  219. 219 OregonDucker said at 8:44 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Williams is tight in the Red Zone. Just something to keep in mind.

  220. 220 Baloophi said at 8:45 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Whoa! Are you his doctor??

  221. 221 OregonDucker said at 8:47 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Heehee, NO! But I’m sure there is a pucker factor at play.

  222. 222 Anders said at 8:52 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Carmichael looks like a solid dime CB and spot starter. That type of guy is needed. I would say his coverage is better than Williams overall.

  223. 223 BobSmith77 said at 9:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    RGIII was picking on him at will on the last TD throw and almost every play that drive he was looking over to see if Garcon or Moss are looked up with Carmichael.

  224. 224 Anders said at 9:26 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    and any difference with Wiliams? Carmichael didnt give up any passes that Williams hasnt given up all year.

  225. 225 BobSmith77 said at 9:40 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Carmichael was getting beat a lot today and RGIII’s shoddy accuracy especially on intermediate routes really saved the defense’s bacon in the 2nd half. RGIII missed at least 3 throws on that last drive including a sideline one to Moss where he would have had an easy TD.

    Long TD bomb Carmichael gave up he didn’t even look back at the ball once and really misplayed it. Just got burnt. I understand Carmichael is a guy who was thrown in there but he struggled today. RGIII and the Skins just weren’t able to take advantage of it.

  226. 226 BobSmith77 said at 9:40 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Carmichael was getting beat a lot today and RGIII’s shoddy accuracy especially on intermediate routes really saved the defense’s bacon in the 2nd half. RGIII missed at least 3 throws on that last drive including a sideline one to Moss where he would have had an easy TD.

    Long TD bomb Carmichael gave up he didn’t even look back at the ball once and really misplayed it. Just got burnt. I understand Carmichael is a guy who was thrown in there but he struggled today. RGIII and the Skins just weren’t able to take advantage of it.

  227. 227 Insomniac said at 9:58 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Watching Sconces giving up 4-8 yards every time a WR does a hook or curl route kills me. He just doesn’t want to give up the deep ball.

  228. 228 Joseph Dubyk said at 8:51 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    i know we are desparately missing defensive stars on our team…but.. man how great would it be to have Mike Evans in this offense?

  229. 229 Anders said at 9:01 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Would be fun. I admit Marques Lee, Watkins or Odell Beckham Jr would be fun as well.

  230. 230 Insomniac said at 9:05 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I like the other guy from LSU more than Beckham Jr.

  231. 231 Baloophi said at 9:06 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Shaquille O’Neal?

  232. 232 Insomniac said at 9:06 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Haha no. Jarvis Landry.

  233. 233 Michael Winter Cho said at 9:16 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    When Shaq’s high school team won the State championship, he was asked to what he attributed the victory. “I attribute it to myself.”

  234. 234 Anders said at 9:38 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Landry for me is more of slot type wr. Nothing bad with that, but Beckham can line up both outside and inside.

    Reason I want Watkins or Lee is for WRs screens tho, both are deadly on those

  235. 235 Insomniac said at 9:55 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    I just want someone to be reliable and we do need a slot WR that will do what Avant does. I see Landry as a Boldin/Avant type of guy, he’s probably faster than Boldin but it’ll be nice to have someone who’s physical for a change.

    For those that want to read more.

    http://withthefirstpick.com/2013/07/12/2014-nfl-draft-pre-season-breakdown-jarvis-landry-wr-lsu/

  236. 236 Anders said at 10:05 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    be honest, there isnt that many WRs I would hate if we draft one. There is plenty good ones this year.

  237. 237 Anders said at 10:25 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    What do you actually think of Allen Robinson? Seems like a big possession with RAC skills

  238. 238 Anders said at 9:38 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Landry for me is more of slot type wr. Nothing bad with that, but Beckham can line up both outside and inside.

    Reason I want Watkins or Lee is for WRs screens tho, both are deadly on those

  239. 239 Joseph Dubyk said at 9:05 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    yeah.. we dont have serious needs at O line (age) and OLB and CB…but damn… DeSean + another stud WR is just mouth watering.

  240. 240 Anders said at 9:54 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Think about getting Maclin back and drafting a stud WR? OMG!!

  241. 241 Anders said at 9:03 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    1 thing we should really implent more into this offense is pick plays. I know Denver is experts at it, but it really helps getting Welker free

  242. 242 Insomniac said at 9:09 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Thoughts on Orakpo? If he hits FA, I don’t think he’s worth more than 7mil a year. He’s getting up there in age and is putting up some mediocre production so far. I know he had like two sacks today but those were more coverage sacks than anything else.

  243. 243 Anders said at 9:13 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Its tough. I think he would be an upgrade over Cole and Graham. I would say Paul Kruger money (6 years, 42 mill, 15 mill guaranteed)

    Orakpo will be 28 next year, so 6 years might be too much. I would give him 4 years for 32 mill

    /edit Barwin is getting 6 mill per year and I say he is worth every penny and Orakpo is better than him as a pass rusher

  244. 244 CrackSammich said at 9:18 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Oft injured player on a down year, getting up there in age. Somebody
    will be stupid enough to pay him huge money, but I hope it’s not us. I’d
    love to have him on the team, but not for that kind of money.

  245. 245 Anders said at 9:19 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Is he often injured? Outside of last year, he had missed 1 game.

  246. 246 D3FB said at 11:40 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Barwin’s contract is structured extremely weird. He doesn’t make alot of money up front. All the money in the contract is the back loaded imaginary type that GM’s give agents to make the contracts look good. It’s only 8mil guaranteed.

  247. 247 Anders said at 12:02 AM on November 18th, 2013:

    I know, same thing with Cole’s contract. Would bet an Orakpo contract would constructed in a similar fashion

  248. 248 D3FB said at 12:22 AM on November 18th, 2013:

    Alot of teams just moved to the 3-4 and are looking for help. Somebody is going to overpay and give him stupid money. Saints, Texans, Colts, Jets, and Chargers could all be after him. If it’s a soft market I wouldn’t mind it but I’m not so sure it’s going to play out that way.

  249. 249 Anders said at 12:31 AM on November 18th, 2013:

    true, hard to know. I think Orakpo gets around Paul Kruger money, with some funny stuff in the end (if he signs a 6 year deal, he will be 34 by the end)

  250. 250 D3FB said at 11:40 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/3/14/4105994/connor-barwins-contract-is-very-team-friendly

    Here’s an article on it

  251. 251 ICDogg said at 9:28 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Nah. Don’t want to go that direction.

  252. 252 Corry said at 9:30 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    For the right price, sure. I’m not dropping a bunch of money on him though.

  253. 253 Corry said at 9:30 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    For the right price, sure. I’m not dropping a bunch of money on him though.

  254. 254 Anders said at 9:34 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    http://i.imgur.com/2WCup7s.png?1

    Pretty impressive

  255. 255 Anders said at 9:34 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    http://i.imgur.com/2WCup7s.png?1

    Pretty impressive

  256. 256 makarov123 said at 9:34 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Big news for Eagles fans all over – Next game is being flexed to Sunday night (replacing NYG – WAS).

  257. 257 BobSmith77 said at 9:43 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    The thing that impressed me the most today is that Foles forced maybe 2 ill-advised throws today. I don’t think he threw a single ball into tight double coverage all day.

    Additionally, there was only a single ill-advised scramble in the 1st half where he tried to extend a play and got clobbered by 3 Skins. Otherwise, he did a nice job of protecting the ball, sliding/failing or whatever you call it to avoid big hits, and not needlessly being careless with the ball while carrying it.

    Foles did hold on to the ball a couple of times too long today while taking a needless sack or two. Still take that over an ill-advised throw into tight coverage or scrambling around with the ball poorly protected.

    Thing that drove me crazy about watching Vick play was that he tried to force too many passes and was way too careless with the ball when he was scrambling or moving in the pocket.

    Such a nice change this year to see the Eagles on the positive side of the turnover ledger again after 2 years of being among the league’s bottom-dwellers.

  258. 258 Anders said at 9:47 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    been plus in turnovers is a huge part of why we are winning games.

  259. 259 BobSmith77 said at 9:54 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Yup. Not going to credit Foles as being some kind of master decision-maker yet and he is due to a bit of reversion on his % INT rate.

    Just nice not seeing the offense have those 2-3 turnover games that were common the last 2 years when Vick was the starter at QB. Just really hard to overcome regardless how good the rest of the team is.

  260. 260 BobSmith77 said at 9:43 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    The thing that impressed me the most today is that Foles forced maybe 2 ill-advised throws today. I don’t think he threw a single ball into tight double coverage all day.

    Additionally, there was only a single ill-advised scramble in the 1st half where he tried to extend a play and got clobbered by 3 Skins. Otherwise, he did a nice job of protecting the ball, sliding/failing or whatever you call it to avoid big hits, and not needlessly being careless with the ball while carrying it.

    Foles did hold on to the ball a couple of times too long today while taking a needless sack or two. Still take that over an ill-advised throw into tight coverage or scrambling around with the ball poorly protected.

    Thing that drove me crazy about watching Vick play was that he tried to force too many passes and was way too careless with the ball when he was scrambling or moving in the pocket.

    Such a nice change this year to see the Eagles on the positive side of the turnover ledger again after 2 years of being among the league’s bottom-dwellers.

  261. 261 BobSmith77 said at 9:51 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    RGIII cost his team the game today. Brutal throw at the end of the game off his back foot while falling down and missed a couple of throws on that last drive including Moss on the sidelines deep which was a surefire TD if he not thrown it 2 yards out of bounds.

    Poor touch on a couple of a number of his intermediate routes with a bunch of balls seemingly to either float on him a bit or drift higher than was advised. Also seems unsure of himself yet on whether he should run and when he finally decides to where he should go.

    Give the Eagles’ defense credit today though today especially in the first half when they were on the field for a long time (nearly 21 minutes) and gave almost nothing up except a couple of modest gains to Morris.

  262. 262 BobSmith77 said at 10:06 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Did McCoy say what his injury was today? I thought for sure he had popped/strained his hamstring when he when down and clutching at it in the 1st half. Was it just a cramp instead?

  263. 263 Anders said at 10:16 PM on November 17th, 2013:

    Consider he came back and looked good, it can only be a cramp. No way he makes those moves with a strained hamstring.