Defining Plays

Posted: January 11th, 2014 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 184 Comments »

Chip Kelly brought a new playbook to Philly. That led to some great moments and some wild plays. has a video where Brian Baldinger shows 4 defining plays for the season. Watch the video and check out his thoughts.

I’ve got ideas of my own, but I’d like to know the plays you guys see as the standout moments. To me, this is a combination of X’s and O’s and execution.

* * * * *

James Franklin is the new Penn State coach.

That’s a good hire. Franklin is a PA native. He knows the history of PSU, which I think is important. Some outsiders think any mention of JoePa and that era is now a bad thing, but I strongly disagree. I’m all for changes and new ideas, but embracing some of the old traditions is a good way to make the program special.

Franklin has worked in the SEC, the ACC and the NFL. He isn’t going to have tunnel vision in regard to how things need to be done. Franklin is a great recruiter and that’s essential for having a top flight program.

I’ll write up a longer post on him in the future.


184 Comments on “Defining Plays”

  1. 1 Media Mike said at 2:52 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Franklin can flat out recruit and should be able to open the Philly market to PSU when it has not been so in the past. This team should be making DEEP runs with an undefeated record just as the bowl ban is being lifted.

  2. 2 Anders said at 9:45 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I think Franklin and mattenberger will make psu scary in 2 years

  3. 3 D3FB said at 11:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    You mean Hackenberg? Mettenberger was LSU’s QB this year who was considered a decent pocket qb in the upcoming draft before he tore his ACL at the end of the year.

  4. 4 Anders said at 12:25 AM on January 12th, 2014:

    I meant Hackenberg, just knew it was a name with an A and berg in it 😛 I knew it wasnt Mettenberger tho.

  5. 5 Media Mike said at 2:56 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I loved seeing the GODLY blocking on the 3 TDs featured on that clip with Baldy.

  6. 6 Patrick said at 3:06 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    i think Boykins interception to stop the Redskins and give the Eagles their first home win in forever was huge, just because it seemed like a statement from the team in the way of them not accepting losses at home.

    I also think Riley Coopers catch on that play Cary Williams helped Chip with against he lions was a sign that this Eagles team just finds a way to win. That catch really kickstarted the offense and from that point we could do no wrong.

    Lastly, DeSean winning a jump ball against the Saints for his first catch of the game. At that point i had the team out, i didn’t see hustle, i didn’t see will and i didn’t see effort. It was bad in the first half, mind numbing in the second half until that catch. That catch told me that its gonna be a good time the next couple of years. It really signaled the new era of the Eagles. It didn’t end with us coming back, so theres is plenty of defining plays still to be had in the future, but it just showed me that it’s a new team. Chip Kellys team.

  7. 7 Baloophi said at 3:27 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Is is more vague than what you’re asking for, but the 15 play drive to seal the game against the Packers at Lambeau was, in some ways, a defining moment. Basically, the culmination of misdirection from all the inside zone and sweeps from the game up to that point left the Packers confused and tired when it mattered most. Solid coaching, solid execution, solid game-planning.

    As for a specific play – and in the same mold of confusion – the toss to Celek to end the Detroit game after showing the same look twice before was a nice marriage of planning and on-the-field adjustments from Kelly and Foles… Really a great play to look at if you need a boost of optism about how Foles fits with Kelly.

  8. 8 Weapon Y said at 3:49 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Best plays: Cary Williams’s breakup of the 2 pt conversion attempt against Dallas. He gave such great effort on that play. Such a nice change from Nnamdi and DRC.

    The “Emory and Henry” play against the Skins. Completely overwhelmed them from sheer confusion. Ran the ball 10 yards down their throat with just 3 linemen.

    Jason Avant’s block against the Cardinals that helped Shady get a long touchdown.

    Connor Barwin’s batted pass against the Cowboys when they went for it on 4th-and-1.

    Great effort by the Eagles on all of these plays. Kelly’s definitely instilled a winning culture. I want to see more ballsy and outside-the-box plays. I loved the unbalanced lines, sending Johnson (and even Peters) out wide as a lead blocker, the Brad Smith quarterback throwback play, and the Swinging Gate. More of those please, but also some Triple Option. Pair Shady with DJax or Brown (and maybe even Smith at QB as well), and that could be a lethal play. All in all, great job Chip for restoring likability to this Eagles team and getting rid of the 2011-12 Dream Team memories.

  9. 9 austinfan said at 5:14 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    My two favorite teams got the two best coaches – Strong and Franklin.

  10. 10 Isaac said at 5:58 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    October 27th in the Eagles-Giants rematch.

    Vick re-injures his hamstring. Everything that happens the rest of the way follows from that play.

    Here’s how one writer, and he wasn’t alone, saw things after that play:

  11. 11 mksp said at 6:09 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Watching the Seattle defense be so dominant is so frustrating. The Eagles could look like this team if we drafted better.

    Earl Thomas over Brandon Graham is the obvious one.

    Richard Sherman was a 5th round pick.

    As much as we love the 2012 draft, I think Kendricks and Curry are going to be two picks we regret.

    Bobby Wagner went one pick after Kendricks. He’s a step slower, but longer, smarter, and a far better tackler. Think Chip would take Wagner over Kendricks every day of the week.

    Curry obviously went before Russell Wilson, but one well, we like Nick. I just don’t think Vinny fits the scheme anymore.

    So excited for this offseason. Can’t wait to see what the Eagles look like with Chip-type guys. Hopefully more like Seattle.

  12. 12 mksp said at 6:12 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Also: I’d like the Eagles to draft Brett Smith (Wyoming) as our developmental QB. He’s athletic, has a strong arm.

    I’d take him as early as the 4th round. Go with Foles-Barkley-Smith next year. Flip Barkley for a couple picks after next season after he looks awesome in the preseason / random starts.

  13. 13 Isaac said at 6:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    This QB from Wyoming, is he an accurate passer?

  14. 14 mksp said at 6:28 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    He has his moments in the tape that I’ve watched. Erratic.

  15. 15 Mitchell said at 8:31 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    What about the Fales kid from Fresno St.? Do you really want to take a qb in the fourth though? We could probably get someone else that would work better. However there is always BPA.

  16. 16 Anders said at 6:15 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    How do you know Thomas would develop under Juan Castillo instead of Pete Carroll? Maybe Thomas tears his knee and Graham is injury free and getting 10+ sacks a year for Seattle?

    Same with Sherman
    Same with Wagner

    Kendricks just had 4 sacks, 3 ints, 2 FF, 4 FR and 108 tackles.

    Curry had 4 sacks playing like 40% of the snaps.

  17. 17 SteveH said at 6:17 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    This. If Earl Thomas blew out his knee and needed microfracture surgery instead of Graham, I wonder how people would view that draft.

  18. 18 Anders said at 6:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    and then coach by Jim Washburn+Juan Castillo learning from Jason Babin.

    That would just be some crappy secondary coach+Castillo and learning habits from Kurt Coleman.

  19. 19 SteveH said at 6:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    With a crappy rather than elite defense around him.

  20. 20 mksp said at 6:17 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Yeah I’m a little down on Kendricks watching him overrun guys all game versus the Saints.

    And Curry got blown off the ball.

    Point is neither guy has the body that I think Chip wants in those positions.

  21. 21 Anders said at 6:20 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Curry is 6-3, that is pretty good height for a DE or do you think Kelly do not like Fletcher Cox height either?

    Kelly loves play makers, Kendricks is a play maker, so what if he is 1 inch lower? Not like he is light, guy is 240, that is same weight as Ryans or guys like Patrick Willis.

  22. 22 mksp said at 6:27 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Fletcher Cox is 6’4″ with 34 1/2″ arms (compared to 6’3″ with 32 3/4″ arms), plus what, like 20-25 lbs on VC? Not that comparable.

  23. 23 mksp said at 6:31 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Look at VC’s percentiles for height, weigh, arm length (click the graph).

    And then remember Chip’s “Big guys beat up little guys” comment.

  24. 24 Anders said at 9:41 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    That is comparesion with 4-3 de, those are often longer than dts and 3-4 de

  25. 25 xeynon said at 7:04 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Kendricks still makes some mental mistakes, but the guy is a big-time playmaker and I think as he gets more comfortable in this defense he’s going to develop into a star. He’s already the best linebacker the Eagles have drafted since Jeremiah Trotter, may turn out to be the best since William Thomas or Seth Joyner.

  26. 26 mksp said at 7:11 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Yeah I don’t want to trade him or anything. Hopefully he makes the leap next year. Just a frustrating player.

  27. 27 Mitchell said at 8:26 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    To be fair to Vinny, he probably doesn’t have the body even HE wants. It is a new position and scheme. Like someone said above 4 sacks with limited playing time is pretty damn good.

  28. 28 Isaac said at 6:20 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Coming out of 2010 TC, Graham couldn’t beat out Juqua Parker for starting LDE spot. Was that McDermott’s call? Or Tommy Brasher’s (I think he was still D-line coach in 2010)?

  29. 29 Anders said at 6:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Most rookie DEs do not have starting jobs.

  30. 30 Isaac said at 6:23 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    good point.

  31. 31 Insomniac said at 6:26 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Washburn had a huge role determining who was starting.

  32. 32 Isaac said at 6:41 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Washburn didn’t arrive until 2011. He had nothing to do with Graham’s rookie season..

    But regardless, who decides on the D-line rotation? Even this year? The D-line coach? the DC?

    Somewhere I read Duce Staley was calling the RB rotation this season, even late in the year. is that right?

  33. 33 Insomniac said at 7:22 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    No you’re missing the point. A rookie won’t beat out a veteran when he has to learn a new system. This is why depth is always brought in. Would I trust a young guy to maintain their responsibilities consistently like a veteran would? Nope, that’s just common sense.

    Regardless of who decided to make Graham a rotational guy. I mentioned Washburn because he literally gave Graham the middle finger since he played favorites when he was supposed to start showing his growth. Plus Graham didn’t have much time to grow as a player. Injuries and 2 new systems to learn were a huge part of why he’s not the player we drafted

    2010 – 4-3
    2011 + 2012 – Wide 9
    2013 – 3-4 OLB

  34. 34 suthrneagle said at 7:00 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    If not traded,Hendricks and Curry are going to excel in Davis` defense.

  35. 35 xeynon said at 6:40 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    OT, but this Seattle/New Orleans game is demonstrating why improving the defense is far and away the biggest priority the Eagles should have this offseason. The Seahawks’ offense has been nothing special, as bad or worse than the Eagles’ was last week, but their defense is so dominant it doesn’t matter. It’s only 16-0 but it might as well be 60-0.

  36. 36 Isaac said at 6:42 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    BPA controls draft strategy. Unless players are rated about the same.

    So says Howie Roseman.

  37. 37 xeynon said at 6:44 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    As it should. But if the Eagles have a chance to move up a few picks to draft a projected impact defender, they should try to do so, and defense should be the focus in free agency as well.

  38. 38 Isaac said at 6:44 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Also, you seem to be saying there’s a lot of distance between the Eagles and Seattle.

    How ’bout on a neutral field?

  39. 39 xeynon said at 6:45 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I think there is a fair amount of distance. The Eagles’ offense is somewhat better than Seattle’s. But Seattle’s defense is light years ahead of the Eagles’.

  40. 40 Isaac said at 6:53 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I read someplace that year after year, after Carroll arrived, the Seahawks kept drafting defensive players. Not reaching but stockpiling. then they hit on guys like Wagner, Sherman, and FA like Browner and Clemons.

    Anyway, if that’s your proposal it’s a great one!

  41. 41 SteveH said at 6:47 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I can’t get over how bad Russell Wilson looks operating as a conventional quarterback sometimes. He really relies on improvisation to get anything at all done.

  42. 42 xeynon said at 6:54 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I honestly have never been that impressed with Wilson. He’s not working with the best weapons, granted, but he doesn’t appear to read defenses that well, has a so-so arm, and gives up on plays and starts scrambling too quickly. If they win the Super Bowl, it will be because of Lynch and their defense and in spite of him.

  43. 43 SteveH said at 6:55 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    For me its his accuracy, he’s all over the place on anything that he can’t float in there.

  44. 44 Maggie said at 11:29 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    It’s rather strange that the same people who say Nick Foles is only in his second year and needs time to be great are dissing Russell Wilson. And the best QB from last year’s draft will probably turn put to be Andrew Luck. He screws up, too, but has incredible skill set (I hate buzz words and phrases), and mental toughness, as TLaw says.

  45. 45 xeynon said at 10:50 AM on January 12th, 2014:

    Nick Foles looks better in his second year than Wilson does.

    I’m not dissing Wilson per se. I still think he has a chance to be very good. But if you listen to the national commentary you’d think he’s a already an elite QB and he’s not. In addition to Foles, I’d rank Kaepernick, Luck, Newton, and maybe Dalton ahead of him in the “young QB power rankings” right now.

  46. 46 BlindChow said at 7:50 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Wilson was 9 of 18 for 103 yds. You can’t tell me he isn’t in a great situation there.

  47. 47 RobNE said at 7:52 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Yet he gets MVP talk from writers

  48. 48 theycallmerob said at 7:56 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I can’t stand it. He absolutely killed me over the last few weeks of fantasy, including the playoffs. In fact, lost in the semis to the guy who had Foles.
    Luck is the only QB in that draft who I’m convinced is better than Foles, as of today

  49. 49 Mitchell said at 7:59 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Agreed and we will have to see how it plays out in a couple of years. It could very well be Foles will turn out to be just as good, if not better, than Luck.

  50. 50 theycallmerob said at 8:00 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    ha, I’m not sure if the downvote was from a wilson or foles lover

  51. 51 Insomniac said at 8:10 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Or maybe a Luck hater? Maybe a RG3 lover too.

  52. 52 Mitchell said at 8:18 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    As Luck throws a pick his first series lol.

  53. 53 suthrneagle said at 8:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Didn`t look so good on that throw.
    In fact his look-ing down the receiver
    caused the Int.

  54. 54 Mitchell said at 7:54 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Absolutely what I was just going to post. Watching the game I saw Wilson make no plays. Lynch and the defense are winning these games. I would argue Lynch is much more important than Wilson is. Wilson just looks so blah out there. I’m not going to deny him being a good quarterback, but as you said, he is in a VERY favorable situation.

  55. 55 shah8 said at 7:59 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    That’s what the playoffs are like. An offense dismantling a playoff defense does not normally happen aside from finishing off an unworthy division winner. It’s not like as if Drew Brees was better than Russell Wilson during most of the time it counted.

    That’s why you don’t care about the numbers per se. You care about whether can he make plays. Wilson threw enough good passes to win, and didn’t turn over the ball. Mind you, this was a terrible game to evaluate anyone on passing! Wind and rain most of the game.

  56. 56 mksp said at 8:04 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    He missed every slant throw he attempted. Didn’t pull the trigger on throws to open guys. Floated a bunch of balls in an attempt to get his receivers decapitated. Not his best game.

    Didn’t really make that many plays IMO, except a couple jump balls throws.

    Have to feel good about our offense / Foles considering they were able to move the ball a lot better on this same defense.

  57. 57 shah8 said at 8:07 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I don’t really think that the Eagles offense moved the ball better. I think the Eagles offense didn’t have to deal with the rain and wind to near the extent. Also, fewer three and outs.

    And no, the Eagles would have been absolutely dismantled by the Sea defense. Just no way. Also, the Saints D played their hearts out. They made fewer mistakes than they did last week, and scared the bejeesus out of Sea’s smaller receivers when not knocking them out of the game.

  58. 58 shah8 said at 8:11 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    One thing to look at, was the run game. The Saints overall did a better job with the run against Lynch than they did against McCoy–they were MUCH more sound, but the fact that they aren’t really the most physically talented d got them blown out of the play for Lynch’s bigger runs. The Sea OL had some really nice moments.

  59. 59 Mitchell said at 8:13 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Lynch had 140 yards and 2 tds. I don’t think they did a better job on him than McCoy…..

  60. 60 shah8 said at 8:16 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    They did. Sea OL had a better night than the Phi OL.

  61. 61 Mitchell said at 8:16 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Numbers say differently.

  62. 62 shah8 said at 8:17 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Take a look at the All 22 on the Eagles run game. There wasn’t a lot to work with because of bad blocks from the guards and Kelce.

  63. 63 Isaac said at 8:18 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    but Kelce’s all pro

  64. 64 mksp said at 8:11 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    We’ll see next year I guess. Eagles will play SEA.

  65. 65 mksp said at 8:18 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Disagree that Seattle D would dismantle the eagles O.

    This was a top-5 offense all year. Seattle can be run on. I know you don’t like Nick, but even you have to admit that he’s not a complete stiff, and would have some chances to make some plays downfield.

    And Andrew luck just threw pick-6 as I’m writing this. Playing QB is hard. We should be glad we have competent one at a minimum.

  66. 66 shah8 said at 8:19 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I haven’t even started to watch the damned game! Lemme go back!

  67. 67 shah8 said at 8:20 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Ah, missed even the replay.

  68. 68 mksp said at 8:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    He stared down his guy on a slant that got blown up,thew it anyway.

  69. 69 Mitchell said at 8:10 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    If Wilson was better they very well could have dismantled that defense. Lynch made a ton of plays and Russell made almost none.
    Drew Brees may have been slow in the first half but was still much better than Wilson in this game. Brees didn’t turn the ball over despite throwing the ball much more.
    Yes, you shouldn’t care about numbers, but Russell still didn’t make any plays. It was all on Lynch. Even if it was crappy outside, Brees was still able to throw for over 300 in almost one half.

  70. 70 shah8 said at 8:11 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    uh huh.

  71. 71 mksp said at 8:14 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Bree’s had two INTs dropped and looked tentative save for that one drive.

    Weather obviously impacted both guys.

  72. 72 Mitchell said at 8:15 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Agreed about the weather.

  73. 73 Isaac said at 8:02 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    tavaris jackson was in the same “great situation” there too.

  74. 74 shah8 said at 8:03 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    No he wasn’t. Just as crappy a WR situation, and crappier, really. Also, he was breaking in a very young OL. Jackson gets ton of respect there, and around the league for being a team player who did the best he could, and helped his teammates grow.

  75. 75 Isaac said at 8:05 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    defense in 2011 was 7 in points and 9 in yards. lynch was dominant as a RB. pretty good situation. wilson’s just better than jackson and proved it in the 2013 playoffs when seattle needed him to produce and he did. almost sent home the falcons in a great comeback. wilson wasn’t needed today.

  76. 76 eagleyankfan said at 6:57 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    one of my favorite plays were just recent where shady and DJ crossed and scored an td. very creative.

  77. 77 SteveH said at 7:18 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Drew Brees studied in the Andy Reid school of clock management.

  78. 78 suthrneagle said at 7:30 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Aaaaand, the saints go marching home…

  79. 79 SteveH said at 7:45 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Ok. I have truly seen it all. Last play of the Saints game is the most bizarre thing I’ve ever seen.

  80. 80 Mitchell said at 7:58 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Wilson or Foles? I’ll take Foles please. Any day. Wilson just looks so blah out there. He made literally zero plays for the offense in the 2.5 quarters I watched.

  81. 81 Mitchell said at 8:03 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    This game was kind of ironic. We thought that the Saints kicker would miss kicks last week. He didn’t and missed 2 kicks this week. I remember Geagle talking about how Ingram would fumble against us. He didn’t, but fumbled against the Seahawks.

  82. 82 Isaac said at 8:06 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    bad karma last week for the eagles?

  83. 83 Mitchell said at 8:12 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I was gonna say something along those lines, but what happened, happened. You know this Eagles team is gonna be hungry next year. Can’t wait for draft and FA.

  84. 84 pkeagle said at 8:09 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I’ll be in Dublin to see Penn State taking on UCF – looking forward to it already!!

  85. 85 xeynon said at 8:18 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Andrew Luck is a tremendous talent, but man does he make some stupid throws.

  86. 86 Isaac said at 8:20 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    the only thing he does more of than make stupid throws is win. with less talent around him than in some other cities

  87. 87 Mitchell said at 8:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Well he does have two first round RB’s in the backfield lol.

  88. 88 Isaac said at 8:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:


  89. 89 Mitchell said at 8:22 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Howard-Bey was a first rounder too but that’s not saying much.

  90. 90 pkeagle said at 8:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    True but could you imagine the outcry in a city like Philly if he was throwing those kinds of passes

  91. 91 xeynon said at 8:32 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Let’s hold off on anointing him one of the greats until he actually wins something big. So far he’s made the playoffs twice by virtue of playing in a crappy division and won a home playoff game over KC’s second string defense. Not bad for a second year quarterback but I feel like people are going overboard a bit praising him.

  92. 92 nevadausa16 said at 8:33 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    no argument from me. but he’s done well so far

  93. 93 Mitchell said at 8:33 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    As I wrote below, Foles COULD end up being just as good if not better than Luck.

  94. 94 nevadausa16 said at 8:35 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    could be. luck has the mobility that foles lacks. but foles is uncanny in his decision making. long run, that’s the key. you could be dead on

  95. 95 xeynon said at 8:46 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Luck could be Elway or Favre. Foles doesn’t have that kind of physical talent so if he’s going to attain that level he’s going to have to be Montana or Brady.

  96. 96 nevadausa16 said at 8:31 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    eagles desperately need a slot receiver who is quick, strong, and who can run.

  97. 97 nevadausa16 said at 8:32 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    someone like danny amendola.

  98. 98 Mitchell said at 8:32 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Someone like Arelious Benn.

  99. 99 nevadausa16 said at 8:33 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    i’m laughing too hard. can’t stay healthy.

  100. 100 nevadausa16 said at 8:34 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    but if he could stay healthy, he has the measurables to be a killer inside

  101. 101 Mitchell said at 8:35 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Yeh, I mean we’ll see after this ACL heals up. Good news is he actually has the appropriate amount of time to heal from something like that and actually come back for next season without it being too soon.

  102. 102 nevadausa16 said at 8:35 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    i hope benn gets the chance

  103. 103 xeynon said at 8:34 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Amendola is a decent player but Brady makes him look better than he is. I could catch 80 balls a year as a slot receiver catching balls from Brady and I run about a 5.4.

  104. 104 nevadausa16 said at 8:34 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    sure. but not even Brady could make Avant look quick and fast

  105. 105 Anders said at 9:50 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Josh Huff or Jarvis Landry in the coming draft.

  106. 106 mksp said at 8:46 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    That TD pass is why Andrew Luck is in his own class amongst younger QBs.

    I like Nick, but he hasn’t shown the ability to make that throw. Maybe next year after he hopefully gets stronger and watches a ton of film.

  107. 107 xeynon said at 8:48 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Certain throws Foles is never going to be able to make. Doesn’t mean he can’t become a great a quarterback. Brady and Brees couldn’t make that throw either, very few players can.

  108. 108 shah8 said at 8:50 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    You really have got to stop pretending that great QBs aren’t great QBs. Andrew Luck is not the most talented passer out there. Good, yes, but…uh…both Brady AND Brees have made that sort of pass, and it’s not some big bright shining moment.

  109. 109 Mitchell said at 8:54 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    You have to stop pretending good qb’s aren’t good…..

  110. 110 theycallmerob said at 8:56 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    touche, sir

  111. 111 shah8 said at 8:57 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    We’re talking an celebrating, a thirty-eight yard sidelines pass. Andy Dalton makes those throws too, on one of his good days. Then again, Andy Dalton is more talented than Foles, and less talented than Luck.

  112. 112 mksp said at 8:59 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Not that simple, but OK. Dalton can’t throw it on a line like that, as required.

  113. 113 shah8 said at 9:01 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    thirty eight yards? Yup.

  114. 114 shah8 said at 9:01 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Luck does not have an arm all that much stronger than Dalton!

  115. 115 suthrneagle said at 10:06 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Foles is going to have a far more successful and productive career than Dalton.

  116. 116 Anders said at 10:08 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Just give it up.

  117. 117 shah8 said at 10:12 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Dalton has very good numbers, though. That’s actually a hill to climb!

  118. 118 xeynon said at 10:25 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Foles already has better numbers than Dalton on a per-game basis. So I’d say if we’re talking purely statistically he’s already climbed that hill.

  119. 119 shah8 said at 10:26 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    we were talking about careers, if you haven’t noticed. Talking about Dalton’s first three years.

  120. 120 xeynon said at 10:32 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Dalton has started for three full seasons. Foles has started for the equivalent of one. Of course Dalton is going to have better cumulative statistics. Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton have better career yardage and TD totals than Andrew Luck does. Doesn’t mean that they’re better quarterbacks than he is.

  121. 121 shah8 said at 10:37 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Dude, just learn to read. I said “a hill to climb”. I specifically was talking about careers. Do I need to say that a third time? That Foles has to have good stats for three years?

  122. 122 xeynon said at 10:59 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    If he stays healthy, I’m 99% confident Foles will have better career statistics after 3 seasons than Dalton does now. Does that make you happy?

    There’s no need to be rude, by the way. If you make questionable arguments based on shoddy logic, flawed statistics, and strongly asserted but largely unsupported personal opinions, people are going to challenge you on them. Insulting these people is amateurish. It makes you look like someone who can’t lose an argument gracefully. Grow up.

  123. 123 shah8 said at 8:56 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Nick Foles is undertalented. Because you know? He doesn’t make a whole lot of real passes.

  124. 124 Mitchell said at 8:56 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    numbers say different.

  125. 125 shah8 said at 8:58 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Nobody’s talking about numbers. What we’re talking about are plays. Ability to set the terms to the defense, with great passes and great runs.

  126. 126 Mitchell said at 8:58 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Look at his yards per attempt, must be making some kind of good/decent pass.

  127. 127 shah8 said at 9:00 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Some of them are. Many of them are not, and were basically jump balls, and not in the schematic way that Kevin Gilbride has Eli Manning do. There just wasn’t the play over the last year that can make you think he can sustain that over a year, with opposing team’s healthy QBs, and non cellar-dwellers.

  128. 128 Mitchell said at 9:03 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Maybe not sustain to that level but there is no indication that he will tank. He COULD get even better. If he was going lose traction he would of done so already and wouldn’t have had as many games with over 100 passer rating. Teams had plenty of time to watch tape and adjust. There will be some things he cannot do but he does enough of the other things right to warrant being labeled a GOOD not great qb right now.

  129. 129 shah8 said at 9:07 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Kaepernick has such a high ceiling, he can refine his game up. Nick Foles cannot get a much stronger arm than what he has now, and he certainly can’t get faster. If Nick Foles somehow made plays, like being as hard to tackle as Ben Roethlisberger, or something, maybe…But he doesn’t. What he does is successfully or unsuccessfully run plays. If he can’t bail to the right and roll out for extra time, he has zero ability to muscle throws, take off, or…do *something* to make a positive play out of bad ingredients.

  130. 130 Mitchell said at 9:12 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    And Wilson did that so well tonight? Come on now. Russell was worthless against the Saints, can’t say the same for Nick. Kaep may have a higher ceiling but I saw a regression this year. Foles played better. You cannot argue that.

    Also that is a higher physical ceiling, not mental.

  131. 131 shah8 said at 9:13 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I watched the game. I also reviewed the the play-by-play. Wilson made plays. Maybe you can fool someone who hasn’t watched, or who can’t read that Wilson’s passing was a key part of every one of Sea’s scoring drives, but I don’t know why you’re trying this line here…

  132. 132 Mitchell said at 9:16 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I’m not trying anything, I saw him not make plays as evident by 103 yards passing. Even if he did make plays how many can you make with 103 yards. Nick made more last week. Put Nick on that offense and I guarantee more plays than Russell made.

  133. 133 shah8 said at 9:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:



    If Nick Foles had to be in Bevell’s system, he would have to make reads, and you know, throw slants and outs and generally a more diverse set of passes, and into smaller windows. Maybe not as bad as it would have been for him playing in Morninwheg’s system again, but Foles would not look very good in Bevell’s system. There’s nothing wrong with the Chip Kelly offense, that generates the open looks as they have, but these kind of spread offenses score lots more points on bad defenses, more than direct correlation would be for a playoff one in a playoff game.

  134. 134 Isaac said at 9:25 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    you work so hard to diminish so many QBs.

    who are the guys you rate highly? not based on what they may become, like Kaepy, but what they are?

    by the way, Brady was never the athlete that Luck is.

  135. 135 shah8 said at 9:27 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I said the Foles wasn’t the athlete Brady was.

    And, well, I don’t exactly think I diminish very many QBs. Look up, I wind up saying that Dalton is better than you think he is…Trying to flip the tables on that argument isn’t going to work.

  136. 136 Isaac said at 9:28 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    i’m not flipping anything. you’re way too sensitive.

    i’m expressing my impression that all you do is downgrade QB and QB.

    So WHO do you like?

  137. 137 shah8 said at 9:29 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Joe Webb.

  138. 138 Mitchell said at 9:26 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    It seems I have been trapped in your realm of utter babble, I am freeing myself for now. Good day.

  139. 139 shah8 said at 9:29 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    No problem, good day yourself!

    But seriously, do youself the favor and look honestly at how guys like Geno Smith and Mike Tannehill can have such uninspiring days. Those guys are being broken in, straightaways, in a real passing offense, and they’re making lots of young QB mistakes. Sooner or later Foles will have to step up under the circumstances where he’ll have to make reads and good throws into decent coverage, every so often, even in Kelly’s offense.

  140. 140 mksp said at 9:41 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Kelly’s offense > “real” passing offense, at least based on results.

    Foles has shown he can be proficient in it. Making real reads, whether or not you want to admit it. Hopefully next year he takes some more chances fitting the ball into some smaller windows.

    We’ll see what next year brings. We got come glimpses this season of what he’s capable of (TD pass to ertz vs AZ, the Chicago game…).

  141. 141 shah8 said at 9:49 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Kelly is not running an offense where there’s more than one or two passing options available, and it’s based on springing people open and otherwise getting balls to playmakers in space. No offense has three or four reads or are super complex all the times in the passing game, but most NFL offenses are that way because it allows unpacking into more complexity when needed.

    The numbers come from a ton of plays that are pretty unreproducible. That goes under regression to mean, such as fumble luck. They also come from just being far more aggressive. However, here’s the thing, we’ve had offenses with many of the horizontal spread concepts spring out before–like the various iterations of the run and shoot, the Martz system, K-gun. And they’ve had a long history of making QBs like Scott Mitchell look more respectable than they really are for a season or two. At the end of the day, you still need the likes of a Jim Kelly or a Kurt Warner to win games rather than the likes of Trent Green or Bulger.

  142. 142 Breezy said at 10:02 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    If there is one thing Foles has done in his two, count them, two years in the NFL it is work to make himself better. I find it ironic that you say Foles throws a lot of 50/50 balls and his numbers are a product of Foles’ fortunes abd his receivers catching those balls. Do you remember last year. Foles quite literally could not complete a deep ball. At all. Without looking I believe he completed something like 20% of his deep passes. I rememher what it felt like when Nick cocked his arm to go deep. You could tell he put everything he had into those balls and they went nowhere. I can’t describe the feeling of joy I got this year when Folesy started to attempt a deep pass. In one season Nick corrected his most glaring flaw quantifiably while maintaining his best traits. What will you say next year if Foles does the same thing?

  143. 143 shah8 said at 10:10 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Yes, I remember last year. I definitely remember him taking a century to decide that yes, Maclin was wide open, and perhaps he should throw to him, and then threw a rainbow. That’s a very low bar.

    What I want to see are more deep balls that are accurate, in the sense that they fall in the hands such that the defender doesn’t have a chance, and such that the receiver can keep going. Far too many passes are like the one to DJax where he stops, turn around, and jump up for the ball before the defender realizes that it’s coming. It’s fine mixed with other kinds of passes, but signalling that those were the only kind you can make is a dangerous thing. Kelly *had* to turn that stuff down after the debacle in Minn. However, from the all22 reviews by Kapadia and MyCat’sNameIsMilk, it sure seems like Foles is very relunctant to make proper sidelines throws to DJax, instead favoring, on the of the few times he does so, a throw to a windowed Celek on one of those situations where DJax has blown past his man.

  144. 144 Breezy said at 10:36 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Saying that is a low bar then not acknowledging the improvement is not the best positiin to start from. Much better with the deep balls. Plus, one more season of tangible improvement starts to show a trend that if you give Foles time he will identify and improve the weak spots in his game. That alone is a deadly trait in a qb

  145. 145 Breezy said at 9:01 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I was about to come at you, then Brady threw a fireball of his own. Much shorter pass but Brady can throw scorchers too.

  146. 146 shah8 said at 9:04 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Brady could run faster when he was younger. Joe Montana was not especially undertalented physically for his era, and he was a good athlete when he was young. You can’t just pretend that Montana or Brady or any other good QB was just a statue, and Nick Foles could match up to them. Realistically, Nick Foles has a hope of matching up to Trent Green, man…Certainly doesn’t have Chris Everett’s arm…

  147. 147 Breezy said at 9:39 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    You are strong in the force, but your anger blinds you. Foles is slow. I would prefer he not try to run for a first on 3rd and short unless no one sees it coming. But I would not say that he is a statue. He can escape pressure in the pocket, chip used him on a ton of rollouts (there was a great roll out in the bears game where Foles had the speed to outrun the edge rusher breathing down his neck and fired a strike to the back of the endzone for 7), and he can pick a couple of yards up if he thinks it is the time and place. Foles won’t put up 60 on a qb keeper but he definetly has functional foot speed and towards the end of the year more teams started to pay attention to Foles on the read option, albeit reluctantly. I would prefer if shady got us that 60 anyway. Better for the best damn rb in the league to get the yards than our qb. Imagine how much money we would have to pay Foles for the best Td-interception ratio in history AND 500 rushing yards

  148. 148 shah8 said at 9:54 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Foles has shown *very* little ability to escaped a failed pocket, or to run out of a passing situation, as opposed to a zone read. He gets sacked or stopped for no loss on plenty of plays like Jared Allen’s tackle in the Min game.

    At points, it just gets so, so, painfully obvious that Foles isn’t a good fit. Nobody is asking that Foles be Vick. But it’s just not much to ask for Flacco or Stafford level athleticism out of QB in Kelly’s system. Or even just the agility that Big Ben has.

  149. 149 suthrneagle said at 10:17 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    you`re hopeless

  150. 150 Breezy said at 10:21 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I agree, he could be better when plays breakdown across the board. His problems with failed pockets tend to do more with maybe trying to do to much imo. There was a play in the saints game I think where Foles turned around to face his own endzone before taking a sack. He is definetly not the guy that is going to be able to just run around and make something happen. If his decision making was a hair quicker in moments like these it woukd benifit him greatly. Either go down there or go forward there. He is also not the guy that is going to run on a called pass. For every Jared Allen play, there will be one where Foles gets 10 because the edge rusher slept on him. Your knocks on Foles are right in a lot of ways. But the kid can do some things. Whens the last time Foles stared down a receiver and threw an int? Luck did that a couple hours ago. Not that many snaps between Staffords last either I bet. If Foles made all the mistakes most young qbs make, plusbthe ones uniquely his, maybe get someone else. For now taje the good with the bad. Not even for the plays he does make, mostly for the ones he doesnt.

  151. 151 shah8 said at 10:25 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    The times that Foles has those runs, are specifically out of run plays, in zone reads. Foles also gets shut down, most impressionably, that time Ari’s Shaughnessy just sat and wait for Foles to keep, when people guess right on the keeper.

  152. 152 Michael Winter Cho said at 11:02 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Slow of foot, meh arm-sure, but not an athlete, shah? Drop it man. Guy was recruited for NCAA basketball!He’s kind of like a point guard for this offense.

  153. 153 xeynon said at 10:08 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    You’re going to have to stop pretending that you’re some kind of expert on what constitutes quarterbacking talent.

    Luck is 6’5″, strong as an ox, has a rocket arm (Brady and Brees could have completed that pass with touch and timing, but not by throwing the kind of 40 yard frozen rope Luck did), and is also fleet of foot (he ran a sub 4.6 40 at his workout). There’s a reason he was pretty much universally considered by NFL personnel people the best quarterback prospect to come along since Manning.

  154. 154 shah8 said at 10:15 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    /me shakes head.

    Compared to you, yes, I’m some sort of expert.

  155. 155 suthrneagle said at 10:24 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    What conceit!!!!You must be a joy to be around,
    you`re probably a legend in your own mind

  156. 156 xeynon said at 10:28 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Says the guy who maintains that Joe Webb is an undiscovered quarterbacking gem.

    I don’t claim to be an expert. But literally 100% of the people who are experts agree with me and disagree with you on Mr. Webb. Why should I take your opinions seriously?

  157. 157 shah8 said at 10:36 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Much of this is merely because that’s easy. Joe Webb actually is a gem, physically, with natural passing talent. He’s just not particularly different from Kaepernick. Others have only seen him in his playoff performance, and most people don’t even really care, you know? He got caught up in the inverse of what happened to Kaepernick is all. It’s just not actually a hard evaluation. The only evaluation that needs to happen is deciding whether he can learn the QB game. The tools are there, plenty of tape of moxy, etc, etc. Just not at all refined.

    Meanwhile, you can go ahead and wow people with your wisdom that Andrew Luck has a ROCKET ARM!


    He doesn't. It's obvious he doesn't. The system was changed from his rookie year in part because he doesn't.

  158. 158 xeynon said at 10:51 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Webb isn’t particularly accurate, and given his inability to pick up an NFL offense after 5 years in the league, it’s likely he isn’t particularly smart or coachable either. You always talk like those are things that can be learned rather than natural skills. Take it from someone who’s played and coached a lot of sports – intelligence and coordination are inborn talents as much as strength or speed.

    As for Luck, go back and watch the game-winning TD throw to Hilton from last week. He threw it 45 yards in the air with a low arc. That’s not a throw every NFL quarterback can make. Is his arm Favre or Elway level? No. I’ll grant you “rocket” may be an exaggeration. But it’s significantly above average.

  159. 159 Maggie said at 11:35 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    How long have Brees and Brady been making those passes?? Hmm.

  160. 160 mksp said at 8:53 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Point is you have to make those types of throws. I think both those guys have shown that they can. I think Nick has a good chance to get there.

    Luck not getting a ton of help tonight either. Drops.

  161. 161 nevadausa16 said at 8:48 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    did you see Brady hold the ball too long. needs to work on that in the off-season.

  162. 162 Isaac said at 9:18 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    watching vinitiari kick long FGs is like watching kevin durantr shoot FTs. Henery? like watching the clippers’ deandre jordan

  163. 163 Insomniac said at 9:55 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    vinitari is old as hell too.

  164. 164 shah8 said at 9:34 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Quarterback just must want to absolutely *kill* guys like Havili tipping balls back up for interceptions. Still get mad every time I think of Celek’s 2012 year. The throw wasn’t that bad…

  165. 165 Insomniac said at 10:04 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Can we hire Blount to teach Bryce to run north-south and hard?

  166. 166 Anders said at 10:06 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Brown can run north/south when the play call is there.

    Problem for Brown is that he got a lot of outside zone runs where he is asked to start east/west and that is not him.

  167. 167 Insomniac said at 10:14 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Bryce won’t improvise on his outside runs so it results into no gain or loss of yards. When he did get the call to run north he went 61 yards for a TD. I hope Chip lets Bryce to just be an one cut and go RB. Kind of like Clinton Portis if he can develop as a blocker.

  168. 168 Anders said at 10:17 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    yea not every RB is good for the outside zone. Brown is a north south guy and if he gets past first line, he is very scary because of his strength (I have seen him get 3-4-5 extra yards in a pile) and very scary speed

  169. 169 Insomniac said at 10:27 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Exactly. This is why Polk can come in and bust open a 10+ yard run by running hard through a hole. Bryce needs to learn that if he can’t get anything by running outside, at least start running north to get some yards instead of none.

  170. 170 shah8 said at 10:14 PM on January 11th, 2014:



    Bryce Brown gets a ton of undeserved hell. I mean, the point of thinking he’s such a good prospect is that he *does* do east/west very good for his size.

  171. 171 SteveH said at 10:19 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    I’ve decided that Chuck Pagano is a terrible head coach. Colts are completely undisciplined tonight, look like they’re in panic mode with 20 minutes left in the game, just horrible stuff. If the Colts want to get anywhere they need to get rid of Pagano.

  172. 172 shah8 said at 10:22 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Nah, I stopped being seriously into this game. Both of them are relatively untalented, over a whole squad. No prayer against better teams. Pagano has what he has to work with, and that’s it.

  173. 173 Anders said at 10:22 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    no, the Colts just isnt that talented and it is very good work for them to be 11-5.

  174. 174 SteveH said at 10:26 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Disagree. They’re playing dumb, Pagano is an idiot to let Trent Richardson ever touch the ball, the penalty on #20 was just awful, the red zone playcalling has been awful, I just don’t see what Pagano adds to this team to elevate it. Doesn’t seem to be any accountability, he’s not an X’s and O’s guru.

    In other news, Luck at times is otherwordly.

  175. 175 Insomniac said at 10:24 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    That Trent Richardson trade hasn’t helped them at all.

  176. 176 shah8 said at 10:27 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    The OL is very poor. Not that it’s an excuse for Luck or Richardson, but that’s merely a functional OL, and not one that could blow teams off the ball.

  177. 177 SteveH said at 10:27 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Donald Brown averages 5 yards a carry.

  178. 178 Insomniac said at 10:28 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    He hasn’t in this game.

  179. 179 SteveH said at 10:29 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    He’s averaging a lot more than Trent Richardson is.

  180. 180 Insomniac said at 10:29 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    All he has do is fall forward past the DL to average more than Richardson though.

  181. 181 shah8 said at 10:28 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Donald Brown is sort of okay. But you know? Danny Woodhead is much better than Donald Brown. I also think Brown is far more acclimated to the situation than Richardson.

  182. 182 SteveH said at 10:27 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Trent only gets the ball when they decide to give it to them.

  183. 183 TommyLawlor said at 10:38 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    Just put up a short post.

  184. 184 shah8 said at 10:45 PM on January 11th, 2014:

    That’s Blount there. You mean to tell me there’s nobody who can catch up to Blount?