Sunday Update
Posted: September 4th, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 63 Comments »I’m working on a column that will explain some of the roster moves.
UPDATE: Eagles waived DT Ced Thornton and claimed G Kyle DeVan from the Colts.
DeVan started 21 of 32 games for Indy at RG over the last 2 years. Overachiever type. 6’2, 306. Okay athlete, but nothing special. Excellent effort player. UDFA out of Oregon State.
Here are Matt Alkire’s notes on him from a draft profile:
“Uses his hands well and sustains blocks. Does a nice job of turning and controlling his man by taking good angles into blocks. Plays with a ton of effort. Gets too upright in pass protection and will get turned around by quicker interior linemen. Does recover well and shows some flexibility. Is not very athletic and doesn’t show great feet or quickness.
Most likely a UDFA.”
Back to the original post…
We have a few Practice Squad updates so far. Reportedly MLB Greg Lloyd is getting one spot. Tim McManus reported on Twitter that Dallas Reynolds will also be on the PS. Limited pro potential, but a good practice player. Don’t overlook what a key part of being on the PS that is. You don’t just add the 8 most talented guys. Chad Hall and FB Stanley Havili are also in. We’ll find out more names as the day goes along. Some teams are making all their announcements, but the Eagles always seem slow with this stuff.
As for Eagles finding work elsewhere…OL Mike McGlynn is a Bengal. They recently cut Max Jean-Gilles and found out that G Bobbie Williams will be suspended 4 games for taking a banned substance. McGlynn can help out right away. He’s a good fit for that scheme and could find long term work there. I want the best for Mike. Loved him at Pitt. Just didn’t fit Mudd’s scheme.
No word yet on Joselio Hanson and the other veterans we let go. I think several of them will find work after the season opener. That way their salaries won’t be guaranteed for the year. Teams can pay them week to week.
I’ve had a few people ask me to list some players the Eagles might like that were cut by other teams. I hesitated in putting anything together since we’re down the line on waiver claims and other teams have more needs than we do. If the Eagles want a veteran G, they can look at Kyle DeVan who the Colts let go. He started 21 games over the last 2 years for Indy. Limited guy, but fits Mudd’s system and an overachiever type. If the Eagles want a veteran LB to add to the mix they could go for Tavares Gooden, let go by the Ravens. He could start in the middle or at WLB. Has some starting experience, but injuries were a problem for him. He might prefer to go somewhere that he’ll be given a strong chance to start.
Howie Roseman and the Eagles scouts spent the preseason focused on scouting young players on other teams. Scouts were assigned games and told to write reports on all players taken in the 4th round or lower. It will be interesting to see if the Eagles like anyone that was cut. G Andrew Jackson was cut by the Falcons and I thought he was a good Mudd target prior to the draft. He might make a nice addition to the Practice Squad.
I don’t expect much movement on the roster from the Eagles in the next few days, but they could make a move or two. Really, we’ve got a pretty darned good roster.
From the last post:
“a roster question that Tommy or one of you other knowledgeable guys could answer for me… Why did Ryan Harris get an “injury setttlement,” while Marlin Jackson got “released?” Weren’t they both injured at TC?”
Jackson is able to play/practice. He can catch on with another team right away.
Harris needs time to rehab. He didn’t want to go on IR so he gets a settlement. Harris still hopes to play for someone this year.
Sam might explain it more thoroughly (and much more betterer), but that’s the gist of it.
RE: Will Kafka be inactive?
Real good question. I think he’ll be active, but that’s a guess. Eagles have to really consider their options this year.
It would be nice to go with just 2 QBs and then to have the extra spot for a role player.
We also saw vs the Jets that QBs can go down and life gets scary. With Vick and Young being mobile QBs, I’d probably keep all 3 active most weeks.
RE: Anderson at S
Marginal player. Up and down vs Minnesota last year when he was on the field a lot. He was solid vs Jets last week, but just looks like an effort player. Don’t see anything beyond that.
Tommy
I was of the opinion that the 3rd QB will always be available according to the new CBA rules?!
Speaking of the ‘darn good roster’: is this the best roster on paper since you’ve been following the Eagles?
available = active
Teams now have 46 spots available on gameday. It is up to teams to decide on how to use QBs.
I need to sit back and compare the roster to 2004 and 2002 to see if I think it is truly best. Probably is.
Originial post updated. We signed Kyle DeVan.
Eagles just signed Daniel Teo-Nesheim to the P Squad. Good move. He’s still got potential. I’m not ready to write him off yet.
Tommy –
What team(s) do you think would want to add Thornton before he clears waivers?
Since they only announced 5 signings to the PS it probably means they’re adding two players that were on other teams roster during TC. One spot reserved for Thornton. Hopefully he clears waivers.
Any Iggles fans lookin’ for a fantasy league?
I have some spots open in a Yahoo! league titled “Go Long, Real Long”. No password necessary.
Plenty of teams could like Thornton. Big + quick = good .
My guess it’s the Panthers signing Thornton.
Re: Best preseason roster
I actually look back at 2005 and sigh. The season sucked, but the expectations for me were sky high.
Had our franchise QB in place. We were all excited about Mike McMahon’s prospects as our backup QB. Oops.
I remember being very stoked to land Ryan Moats, and late in the preseason, adding the experience of Lamar Gordon at RB. All of this to add to the most dangerous player in the league in Brian Westbrook.
Reggie Brown was just drafted. Greg Lewis looked like a potential 5 year starter. T.O. had just set the world on fire in the Super Bowl. We were all still high on LJ Smith’s potential.
Shawn Andrews joined the O-Line. Jamaal Jackson was never going to get pushed around like Hank Fraley. Our OTs were set in Tra and Runyan.
We had just added “Baby Sapp” and gotten rid of Corey Simon. Darwin Walker and Sam Rayburn were still fan favorites. Jevon Kearse (when he wasn’t limping off the field) looked like he was going to earn his FA dollars.
Trotter was back, and ready for a full season at the MIKE. Bullet looked like a legit WILL.
And wow. That secondary. Lito, Sheldon, Mike Lewis, and elite-level Dawk. Rod Hood as our 3rd CB. Considine and Mikell looked like they were going to be ST aces.
And Akers was no worse than the 2nd best kicker in the league.
The sky was the limit….
I know it’s the nature of the business, but that has got to be an awful feeling finding out on Saturday you’ve made the 53 man roster to only be let go on Sunday for a player that was cut by another team. I know players have to understand there is no guarantee they will see tomorrow, but that has to be deflating.
@ Nathan…
Those are cruelest cuts of them all.
@ mcud….
Great post. Dead on.
The 2005 team was very talented. 2 things killed that team: injuries and ego.
Mike Lewis had made the Pro Bowl the year before and was never the same. He admitted that changed him. Lito struggled all year long because he thought he was god’s gift to Earth.
Pinky got hurt. Buck got hurt. Akers got hurt. TO went TO on us. Chad Lewis was hurt. Donovan got hurt in the season opener and wasn’t right all year.
I hated that season.
The Kyle DeVan signing seems like Danny Watkins costing us an extra roster spot with his poor performance.
Here’s my guess re the inactives for the season opener:
Young
Smith
Vanderfelde
Hunt
Jordan
Jarrett
Marsh
@ Cafone…
RG/RT struggles overall. If Mathis was backup G, there’d be no need to sign DeVan. With only Vandy as backup G, that changed things.
Since DeVan can play also center will we see a JamJax trade now?!
Did Vandervelde show that much more than Thornton to risk letting him clear waivers to practice squad? I like the DeVan signing, but not necessarily the move to make space for him with Laws, Dixon, and Patt having health issues this summer.
as far as I’m concerned, DeVan can put on the chin strap against the Rams..
nice article about KD:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/nfl/2009/12/epiphany_propels_former_osu_li.html
Vandervelde – higher pick (Thornton UDFA), more likely to be picked up, more of a position of need
You think the Eagles are comfortable at returner if they don’t add anyone before next Sunday? I like Lewis returning kickoffs but I don’t love the idea of DeSean returning punts full time.
did Reynolds get ahead of Shipley, or can’t they sign Shipley to the PS for whatever reason. Reynolds getting ahead is not out of the realm of possibility.
I’m not going to like the PS without Rod Harper, maybe he’s still shopping around.. Ingram or a TE makes sense.
I suggest that we save a roster spot and bolster the OG depth by combining Julian Vandervelde and Kyle DeVan into one uber-Guard.
Kylian DeVandervelde.
Kammich, I think Coors has used that name for a boutique beer.
@mcud
It was the best of times… before it became the worst of times.
Tommy/anyone,
While Ive been thrilled by the Washburn acquisition, i have to say that I’m not that confident in the Mudd’s one, despite the unanimous love – What has he done recently to warrant that reputation? The Colts OL is an absolute mess, and the last 2 high draft picks are or look like busts (Ugoh/Tennant)… Can anyone reassure me?
@ ubrqb…
Go ask Peyton Manning what he thinks of Howard Mudd. I guarantee you he’d give Howard a glowing recommendation.
Mudd pushed for Mathis. He looks good. Mudd pushed for Kelce. He looks good. Watkins is a project. He’s behind schedule, but the expectations for him are high.
@ kammich…
Brilliant idea. I’ll mention to the Eagles that their doctors should get on that project ASAP.
Tommy –
You wrote that Watkins is a project. That term — “project” — is awfully strong medicine for a 1st-round pick whom the Eagles front office/scouts loved from the start and had penciled in as a day-1 starter.
Would you mind expanding on why moving inside from tackle — left OT for Watkins — presents such a challenge. For Watkins, in particular.
Especially given the enormous expectations — and the fact that the front office knew that a lockout was coming.
Also, as context, the Eagles, during Reid’s tenure, have typically drafted or added via rookie-free-agency tackles and played them at guard (or, in J-Jax case, at center).
I seem to remember that Reid — until this year (and the drafting of MJG in 2006) — stayed away from college guards and choose tackles. The theory, I think, is that college tackles are the more athletic OLs on their team.
Shawn Andrews, for example, seemed to have no problem moving inside from OT.
I get that Watkins has played football for 4 years. And he’s moving inside from tackle, where things happen more quickly.
Beyond that, anything to add.
Signing DeVan makes sense. “Yesterday’s” depth chart had a huge hole at backup guard. JamJax is a center. Vandervelde is even less ready than Watkins. Justice is still recovering. “Best” move?? Maybe Todd inside and Dunlap at RT? We already decided that wasn’t the answer.
@GermanEagle: Has DeVan actually played center?
The problem with the Watkins pick can be summed up this way: He is a 26 year old rookie. The only reason to ever pick a player older than 22 years in the first round of the draft is if he is absolutely ready to start from Day 1. Think about other older (on draft day) players such as Aaron Ross and Terrence Newman. They started from Day 1 for their teams and contributed. If Watkins cannot contribute at even an average level this year, it is completely a failed pick. If he isn’t playing at a high level as early as next year, he is a failed pick. You don’t spend first round picks on players who give you 2-3 years of high level play in their early 30s.
He was also picked ahead of more highly regarded OL prospects such as Derrick Sherrod and Gabe Carimi. The consensus among draft analysts was that both Carimi and Sherrod would be higher value picks for teams seeking OL help in the first round. The Eagles passed on these prospects for Watkins. He was also picked ahead of highly regarded DL prospects such as Cameron Jordan, Muhammed Wilkerson, and Daquan Bowers, who all could have helped the Eagles on the new defensive line. Wilkerson and Jordan especially have the versatility that Washburn likes in his linemen, with the ability to play both DE and DT. If either one of these players plays at a high level and Watkins plays at anything less than an elite level, I dare say it is a failed pick because an above-average pass-rushing defensive lineman is always more valuable than an offensive guard, unless that guard also plays at an elite level. Picking Watkins in the first round was bad positional value and it was purely a gamble on Watkins playing at an elite level. If he does not play at an elite level, he is a failure because you don’t spend first round picks on merely average or slightly above-average guards. These kinds of players can be found readily in the later rounds or in free agency. You should only spend your first round picks gambling on positions for which it is hard to find elite players: pass-rushing DT, DE, CB, QB, WR, etc.
Tommy –
Are you developing an “ignore” feature for comments? Thanks.
Eagles also put in a waiver claim for FB Chris Gronkowski. Colts got him. They definitely want to upgrade(in their opinion) from Schmitt.
If it were up to me, my opening day inactives would be:
Kafka
Vandervelde
Justice
Clayton
Lindley
Jarrett
Marsh
If they would have drafted Daquan Bowers, wouldn’t we be killing them for drafting damaged goods knowing that he would most likely get injured down the road? Because you know, that’s just what we like to criticize them for after they get hurt 😉
I love Morton’s post. I’ve never seen someone with such an incredible ability to contradict themselves upwards of 10 times in less than 3 paragraphs. He should be a politician.
If I owned an NFL team, I’d hire Morton to run my draft war room for me. Because he has a fairly flawless draft strategy: draft someone who will play at an elite level and who will never, ever get hurt.
Damn, if Matt Millen only knew it was that easy.
Morton’s got a habit of using worst-case scenarios and descriptions, but he’s usually got a solid logic to the point he’s making. The Eagles’ failure to draft difference-making pass rushers has been a real hindrance to the team over the last 5-6 years. Trent Cole is the only such talent that’s come up through the draft, and frankly the only one that’s even been above-average. Or average, for that matter. It’s forced the Eagles to chase pass rush with free agent dollars, where results have still been mixed. The Eagles have struggled to draft difference-making defensive talent for the last half-decade, and it’s quite possibly held them back from a Superbowl appearance or two.
That said, any team can imagine a million redraft scenarios that would have helped them out. And You’ll drive yourself crazy staring down that rabbithole.
@ German Eagle
The old rule of 45 active plus the special rules for the #3 QB are out and replaced by simply 46 guys. So the #3 QB can play any time, if the team chooses to make him active. They could also choose to make him inactive and have another player take the 46th spot.
@ mcud
Thanks. Nothing like reliving the days of a super-high expectation team that crashed and burned with a week before our current super-high expectation team gets started. So much for that sense of calm, quiet confidence.
Re: Thornton
I read it suggested that keeping him for a day will raise his stock with other teams and make it less likely he will clear waivers. I would like to believe that our scouting department has done their homework and has their list ready before the cuts are made. Will other teams really value him more highly because we almost kept him? I just find it hard to believe that other NFL teams are run in such a way that this would influence them.
And if it does, we should have kept a few other guys around a little longer just to mess with them. Maybe that is the plan with Abirmiri?
@ATG
Well we did foul the Giants to sign McDougle even after he produced nothing for us.
I guess Morton does have a point. It seems like the Packers and the Steelers strike gold in every draft. They usually don’t do anything fancy. They stay where they are and they usually land a player that fits their sytem and plays at a high level. The Eagles aren’t anything special when it comes to the draft. They haven’t been able find a DE to play opposite of Cole in the past 5 years. They still have a hard time finding good interior OL. They weren’t able to find a good CB in the draft. Sometimes it feels like thy completely neglect these positions. If it weren’t for trades and FA we would be a .500 team.
Good ol’ Negadelphian pessimism! Season must be close!
RE: Thornton
A lot of fans are shocked by the cut, but was Thornton really that good that he was worth more than a Mudd-style OL?
This is negadelphia:
Cedric Thornton? What? Over Derek Landri and Hargrove?
Stupid, stupid move!!!
The next day, the same person:
They cut Thornton? Watch him get claimed off waivers by another team! The Eagles are taking a big risk here! Dammit!
If I were the Eagles, I’d put in a waiver claim in on Quan Cosby. Released today by the Bengals. Very solid WR/PR who has never fumbled in his career. Also a good STs coverage player.
Come on Tommy, what are the chances that 2 QBs get injured in the same game? I would rather keep an extra d-lineman or a ST player than use up that spot for the small chance that 2 QBs get injured in the same game. The only justification for Kafka being activated is if he’s a probowl holder.
If Vick and the 2nd QB go out, we can switch to a pure wildcat offense with Brown and McCoy running the show.
Ha! Beat that one!
Eagles r cheap and don’t spend money in fa, they also don’t draft well, Reid is not a good coach. So let me ask u a question, how the hell do they always wind up with a winning record?
@ CVD
Come on, your negadelphian memes are a few months out of date. Nowadays, all the cool kids are saying the Eagles cheat on the cap, overspend in free agency, and don’t understand lockerroom chemistry. You gotta keep up.
We need a good, old fashioned QB controversy. The whole Favre-to-Eagles thing lasted for just a week. We need some serious “when will Vince start?” talk show chatter!
One other thing to consider: if we loose Vick and Young in the same game, is Kafka really going to change the outcome? For instance, the bears used their 3rd QB in the playoffs last year, but they weren’t winning that game anyway.
Tommy,
With the season one week away, what player or position scares you the most. My answer is Danny Watkins. I think eventually he may be serviceable, but he is overwhelmed mentally right now and may get Vick hurt, What are the odds that Watkins gets relegated to a back up spot to get some experience before we put him out there to protect Vick?
@ whoever was mentioning the Steelers drafting better than us, go and take a look at their last few drafts. They’ve produced a couple of guys, and a lot of nothing just like we do. Not sure where this perception of them drafting better than us is coming from, but it doesn’t seem to be backed up by the evidence.
The biggest difference I can tell between us and them is we seem to hit on a lot more late rounders, where as they seem to do better with their early picks, especially their first round picks.
If we could get the Steelers to draft our 1st 2nd and 3rd rounders, and we drafted the 4th round through the rest, we’d be unstoppable.
Heres a link to an interview with Roseman and it mentions something I’ve been harping on lately in a few posts, and thats that we really seem to hit on a good percentage of our late round picks. Its interesting that we have some some top picks that have either washed out completely or are really just average starters, but we have some late rounders who really light it up (Trent Cole comes to mind). Contrast that to the Steelers that I mentioned in my previous post that seem to hit on their first round picks like clockwork, but don’t have nearly the same late round success that we do.
http://www.csnphilly.com/09/04/11/Part-3-Roseman-QA-Youth-and-draft-theory/landing_eagleeye.html?blockID=559206&feedID=3041
@Stephen
if the Eagles would strike Gold with their 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders too our late round picks would have a hard(er) time to make the roster…
I want the Eagles to improve, but I’m skeptical that you can improve on perfection: FB Owen Schmitt. As I’ve said before I’m an Owen Schmitt fan, and am glad the waiver claims have been for naught. I was annoyed when the picked Havili, who’s a very fluid receiving threat but will never be a blocker. Owen Schmitt’s receptions look awkward, but that is part of the element of surprise. Owen Schmitt can be a short yardage back, wear out the D late in the game as a primary back, and again, won’t the other team be surprised when the offense revolves around Owen Schmitt. If Owen Schmitt stays on the team I think this is going to be his breakout year.
when your franchise qb is no longer ur franchise qb, most teams have 2-10 year period of having hard time finding that next franchise qb.
now replace qb with franchise rb, and its the same story
we did both of those without missing a beat, that pretty darn amazing. think of the last coach that went from one franchise qb to the next and continued winning?
and please stop telling us how great all these other teams draft. show us all their drafts that were great. and dont spend all ur time finding the best drafting team, we dont have to be the best drafting team.
and why is it when steelers pick up an udfa and he turns out good, its because they are such a great team that they find the right player and make him good. but when we do it, we got lucky?
or how bout how we got lucky with vick? reid took so much heat for picking up vick. we lost fans because of it. but people say it was luck. obvioulsy reid saw something in him that he knew all the problems it would cause but he picked him up anyways. i dont think he expected last year to be that amazing, but eagles deserve credit for taking a chance on him. reid was taking all that heat for trying to get vick on the field in the wildcat. wildcat didnt work but it showed reid saw something in vick and wanted him on the field
the strangest part is its eagle fans that r the ones looking for ways to praise other teams and put down the eagles. just strange
@Mattman: Give me a quick list of “difference-making pass rushers” currently in the NFL.
I think it’s a pretty sparse list.
WR Ronald Johnson and TE Anthony Hill added to practice squad.
Atg
Don’t forget Reid is desperate and that’s why he is overspending, we r the new Dan Snyder. The window is closing cuz we r now an old team.
People r ridiculous. Let the salad cowgirl fans talk junk about ur team, ur supposed to back ur team. It’s ok to b critical but if u r alway reaching to find something to b critical of and ur team is always winning (I know no SB yet) then there is something not right. How can u enjoy ur team if u feel that way?
@ CVD
Good question – who is the last coach to successfully transition from one franchise QB to a new franchise QB?
When a team’s franchise QB is on the way out, mediocrity and the head coach usually follow. I can’t think of a single team/coach who successfully made the transition between franchise QB’s other than the 80’s-90’s Niners. Does that count though? My memory is foggy, but didn’t Steve Young’s career really take off AFTER Walsh retired? Correct me if I’m wrong.
Bledsoe/Belichick to Brady/Belichick was a successful transition, but if people say Reid got lucky with Vick, you have to say Belichick got lucky with Brady, too. I bet nobody is willing to go that far…