Misc Eagles Items
Posted: November 9th, 2011 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 51 Comments »I’ve talked quite a bit about LBs and the draft. A few people don’t buy the idea that the Eagles would spend a high pick on a LB.
It is absolutely true that the team hasn’t used a 1st round pick on a LB, but the team has spent several 2nd round picks on them. The problem is that the picks didn’t pan out.
This could be the year that the Eagles are more aggressive at LB. Let’s start with an angle not enough people look at. There has to be players worth taking. The draft has not been filled with great 4-3 LBs in recent years. You see lots of mid-round guys that are interesting, but very few top notch 4-3 LBs.
The Eagles have had serious holes to fill, other than at LB. This year it sure appears that LB is the priority position. Things may change between now and the draft, but this would be the first time I can recall that LB would be the clear spot to address.
There are no guarantees, of course. The fact that the Eagles haven’t taken a LB in the 1st round doesn’t mean that it can’t happen or that it won’t happen. There has to be a clear need and a good fit available. The 2012 Draft could be the one time when those factors align and the Eagles go get a LB early.
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Trying to put this season in context is friggin’ hard. Or impossible. We lost 4 games in a row and all hope was gone. The Eagles looked like a bad team. Then we won 2 in a row and hope was restored. Suddenly we were back to being dangerous. We lose on Monday night and we’re back to being a bad team.
What happens if we win Sunday? Still bad, but maybe less bad? What happens if we win 2 in a row? We’re back to being dangerous? And on and on and on.
There is a rush to judgment. We all want to proclaim this team to be something, good or bad. Right now I have no idea what to make of the team. Frankly, I’m not sure anyone can make a conclusive statement on this team until we’re in December or maybe even until the season is over.
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Evan Mathis is dealing with turf toe and it sounds like he’s going to miss this week’s game. King Dunlap is filling in for him at LG. That’s interesting. You’d think they would put Jamaal Jackson in there or maybe Julian Vandervelde. Maybe Howard Mudd has taken a liking to King Dunlap over the course of the season.
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I am working on the DGR. It will be of a GR than a DGR. Painful to watch at times, but also enlightening. Gotta learn from mistakes. Would be easier if I was paid to watch and also could yell at players for the 1 or 2 blunders from Monday night.
Hoping this idea of an LB in round 1 comes to fruition. Would also put a need on getting a DT early.
With our first 3 picks I wouldn’t hate LB, DT, CB. Swap out WR with CB as our third and I’d still be content, and that’s what this is all about isn’t it – making me happy in mid-April.
The best scenario is an impact DT in the first round (Devon Still or Brandon Thompson), and grab one of the CBs or LBs that fall into the top of the second round with the Cardinals pick.
There will be plenty of talented CBs in this draft that drop to the top of the second round. This draft class is loaded with CB talent. I also think that there will be plenty of 4-3 LB talent available at the top of the second round, even if the ILBs go early. You could easily settle for a Zach Brown, Ronnell Lewis, Gerald Hodges (maybe) in the second round.
Are you sure the Cardinals’ pick will be the higher of the two? haha
But Tommy, you are getting paid with the eternal comradery of fellow eagles fans!
Incedentally for anyone who hasn’t donated to Tommy yet, it is easy and fun. And he doesn’t spam you mercilessly. So go contribute!
I predict the Eagles have one more run at getting our collective hopes and dreams up before finally ripping our hearts out for good. Its not the easiest thing to do to jaded fans like us, but they seem to have it down to a science. In the meantime I will watch one game at a time, yell at the tv, get my gf mad at me, scare the cat and root for these guys until the end. Then look to the draft and start all over again. Ahh the joy of sports..
It seems you and I act the same way while watching our beloved eagles. Tommy, thanks so much for keeping hope alive. I look forward to reading everything you write and enjoy when u answer my questions…no matter if I’m beginning to believe Morton is right….
Tommy you mentioned a few weeks back that we would have a better grasp on the D after 7-8 games. Can we clearly say that our D coordinator is out coached when he goes up against Offensive guru’s like Martz,etc. I just think we may be looking for a new D coordinator next yr. Thoughts
You are a very brave man to attempt to re-watch this horrible game. Watching it again for specifics is just torture.
I dont see this team as anything but bad now. The Rams and Dolphins both had a convincing victory over a quality opponent, but no one suddenly proclaimed them as fixed or back on track. This is the NFL, all these teams are talented, and all can win. There is a difference between the teams that know how to pull it out, and the teams that assume things will fall in their laps. The Eagles beat the tar out of the Cowboys, and suddenly they are contenders? Nope, they are just another bunch for the quality teams to prove themselves against. Maybe the best of the qualifiers that the contenders have to endure, but still nothing other than a bad NFL team.
This doesnt mean I wont pull for them every week, and even get angry about the losses, but it is going to take a huge change in attitude on the field for me to believe.
In the past our LB’s played a different role in the defense system. With the wide 9 LB play is much more important. We need guys that can get off blocks and attack because now the defensive linemen in front of them don’t play to take on blocks they play to get to the QB. So the blockers get to the LB more now. LB is a huge issue for us and I think AR sees that. I think we’ll go after a guy high in the draft if he’s on our board.
Dear God,
Either Give me Manti Teo, Travis Lewis and Sanu/Alfonzo Dennard or your a dick
Sincerely,
An Eagles Fan
Dennard? You want a CB?
I need to study him thoroughly, but he’s never impressed me as much as I wanted him to.
To be honest I haven’t watched much of him either except I remember him flashing a couple times last year when I was watching the huskers. I know he is billed as one of the more physical press man corners in this draft. So its really more of I hate our pussy corners, and due to the somewhat quiet year Dennard has had, and our ability to pick him up w/ a 2/3 I view that as a solid hedging of bets against me going apeshit and physically mauling Nnamdi or DRC next year.
“There is a rush to judgment. We all want to proclaim this team to be something, good or bad. Right now I have no idea what to make of the team. Frankly, I’m not sure anyone can make a conclusive statement on this team until we’re in December or maybe even until the season is over.”
Actually, Tommy, it’s fairly easy to make a conclusive statement about this defense: It’s terrible and will remain so until coaching changes AND personnel changes will be made.
Why? Because:
– The defense looked good against the Redskins because Washington has one of the most inept offenses in the entire NFL, and Rex Grossman is a joke of a QB. Any solid defensive performance against either one this year should be discounted.
– The defense looked good against the Cowboys because Dallas fell into a hole very early because the Eagles offense obtained a quick 21-0 lead.
– Against every other team, the defense has looked incompetent or worse.
– Every dog has his day: the Rams looked great against the Saints, the Dolphins looked great against the Chiefs, and the Eagles looked great against the Cowboys.
– Ergo, the Eagles defense is in the same class as the Rams and Dolphins defense: terrible against most of their opponents, with a single “day in the sun” due to a.) the Cowboys not showing up and b.) the Eagles offense mounting a quick lead.
They need more time. It was a short offseason, with a new D. coordinator and a new Dline coach. They also got a lot of new pieces and a lot of the defense is young (LB and SS/FS).
I think a full offseason and just getting the players familiar with what everyones job is would make a huge difference. I could certainly be wrong here, but I think that would really solve a lot of the issues. And, a lot of the issues are mental ones that are usually fixed once everyone knows what their job is.
I think you’re wrong. There are fundamental personnel deficiencies on this team, and there are also fundamental flaws in the defensive scheme they have chosen to employ, and both of these sets of deficiencies work together in concert to form a substandard defensive unit.
The offseason argument is moot. Why have other teams with new defensive coordinators and even new head coaches (49ers, for example) thrived despite the shortened offseason? Even with a shortened offseason, why haven’t we seen any semblance of progress after NINE weeks?
Because there are absolutely rotten players at the heart of the defense (Asante Samuel) and the teams is loaded with talent-bereft NFL backup players (Moise Fokou, Trevor Laws, Jarrad Page, Jamar Chaney) and underachieving, overrated acquisitions (Domonic Rodgers Cromartie, Nnamdi Asomugha, Cullen Jenkins, Jason Babin).
And because the defensive coordinator is an former offensive line coach with less NFL defensive coaching experience than your average high school coach.
They need better players (this is on Reid and Roseman) and they need better coaching (this is on Reid and Castillo). Period.
I agree with Mort on this one. How many weeks are we going to say “they need more time”? At this point, we are well beyond what a full training camp and preseason would be. They have had more than ample game time to develop chemistry and learn the new scheme. Simply put: our personnel are not as good as people thought and our coaching at the def coordinator level is abysmal. I think that the Juan Castillo hiring will be the undoing of Reid’s tenure with the team. Or at least we can all hope….
Other teams with new DC are good defenses? The 49ers hired a offensive HC, and changed very little on a defense that were already good. The Browns hired Jauron, and even though they play solid defense, saying they thrive is wrong. Carolina hired McD and their defense sucks worse than ours, even though Rivera is seen as one heck of a Coach. Cowboys hired Ryan, but as Tommy pointed out before the game we crushed them in, we were their first reel test. The Broncos hired John Fox and they suck. I haven’t seen enough of the Titans to say something about them. Texans played good with Wade Phillips, but then again the spent many recent draft picks on defense and signed big in FA.
I agree with you that we have many players on defense that might not be real NFL starting material. Fokou is solid and Chaney shown very good things, and is now showing bad things, he seems like a player in his second year, right? Its critical that many of these players are LBs. We don’t have a LB right now that would start on any decent defense.
I certainly agree that we need leaders on defense, but we changed and got a lot younger and leaders need time. Its not helping that Asante decided to act like a teenage girl.
I am disappointed with Nnamdi. He only plays like a top 10-15 CB. I expected top 2. Babin has a lot of sacks and has drawn OL away from Cole. Jenkins plays phenomenal and should go to the Pro Bowl. DRC aren’t playing regularly, off course he sucks on the few snaps he get. We spent money trying to get over the top. We signed veteran players to ease the learning curb. Both things didn’t work out. Can you name all the hopeless wideouts we drafted before finding DeSean & Maclin? No team is perfect. The Pats have no pass defense, the Colts suck without Manning and the Eagles couldn’t deal with changing their system and getting younger while staying a good D# .
I think its hopeless to hire a fucking OL coach as a DC. I don’t know what Reid were thinking and we can’t keep giving time, but when your every move is critiquing, the least you could do is look at the issues not only finding flaws. I get it, you wanted Sean Lee. We also spent a late 4th rounder on Jack Ikegwouno instead of drafting Carl Nicks.
You’re 100% correct!! People like Morton don’t understand chemistry, understanding tendencies and coaching is necessary for success. Without an offseason you can’t succeed without it. The 49ers didn’t change half their starters and their D wasn’t their problem it was their QB & Offense. We had everything going against us from the highest of expectations, brand new DC, new & young starters not being aloud to take part in 1/2 the TC due to rule changes. They were bringing umexpected starters in so fast the DC probably couldn’t figure out how to formulate a plan not knowing who’s coming in next. People compare our D to Miami but are the the Patriots doing any better? This is NOT a typical year in the NFL and that’s why it’s hard to tell who’s good and who’s bad. The craziest thing is people are blaming coaches that have been on the offensive side of the ball their whole NFL careers(accept Juan this yr) for the problems on D. Just like the media sending some of their air head puppets to boo the McNabb draft pick; now their sending them after the Eagles best coach ever just because they never liked his personality.
I don’t like Bel-a-cheat or Beet-Red Coughlin, but i’d sure take them in a heartbeat. AR is being exposed as a fraud now – McNabb and JJ had his back all those years. He’s damn lucky Vick came along, because if it was Korn Kobb back there, forgetaboutit, we’d be 0-8 with Vince Young playing at this point.
Also…
“This could be the year that the Eagles are more aggressive at LB. Let’s start with an angle not enough people look at. There has to be players worth taking. The draft has not been filled with great 4-3 LBs in recent years. You see lots of mid-round guys that are interesting, but very few top notch 4-3 LBs.”
This seems to be a blatantly erroneous statement. There have been plenty of talented 4-3 LB prospects in the draft in the past four years that the Eagles could have easily drafted. The problem has been that the Eagles front office refuses to draft them any higher than the 6th round when most of the solid prospects are off the board.
Highly rated 4-3 OLB prospects of the past four years by draft class and round in which Eagles could have drafted them:
2011: Martez Wilson (2nd), Kelvin Sheppard (2nd), Mason Foster (2nd), Bruce Carter (1st), Akeem Ayers (1st)
2010: Sean Lee (2nd), Navarro Bowman (3rd), Sean Weatherspoon (1st), Daryl Washington (2nd), Brandon Spikes (2nd), Rolando McClain (trade up in 1st)
2009: Clay Matthews (1st), Brian Cushing (trade up in 1st), Rey Maualuga (1st), James Laurinitis (1st)
2008: Curtis Lofton (1st), Dan Connor (2nd), Jonathan Goff (4th), Erin Henderson (FA)
ANY one of these players could have been drafted by the Eagles relatively easily if the Eagles had been willing to spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on a LB. Instead of picking, say, Trevor Laws, or Nate Allen, or Daniel Teo-Nesheim, Jacquian Jarrett, or even Jeremy Maclin, the Eagles could have solidified their LB corps with one of these players.
This isn’t hindsight as well; all of those players that I listed were considered top 5 LB prospects in their respective draft classes, and most of them have made an impact in the NFL and have proven themselves to be well worthy of a 1st round pick, and especially worthy of a 2nd round pick.
Perfect.
Are you disputing this? How can you claim that:
“The draft has not been filled with great 4-3 LBs in recent years. You see lots of mid-round guys that are interesting, but very few top notch 4-3 LBs.”
After seeing that list? Are you going to be a revisionist and tell me that those LBers I listed weren’t good prospects?
Because its so easy going back looking at the draft and the doing it over again. How can you even talk about the 2011? Those guys haven’t played enough to judge them. Weatherspoon i would have liked, but I’m not selling Graham just yet. He was very good until his first injury in ages an provided a new body where injury prone J.Parker and Abiamiri ruled. Sean Lee and Navorro Bowman did nothing last year, and because of a few good games you count them as HoFers? I think their both injured now, isn’t that your beef with Graham? IMatthews is a 34 guy, Cushing went a lot before we picked. J-Lau and Rey Rey were seen as MLB, a position where we had Stewart Bradley as the leader and playing VERY well. Curtis Lofton is a beast, but was LB really a need back then? Remember in our old system LBs were not important. They are now.
I have to admit that I was getting pretty jealous watching Urlacher and Briggs tee-off on us Monday night. Then ESPN showed that stat saying that they were the longest tenured pair of LBs in the league.
While Shady can make people miss, the point is that he had to in order to get any yards. Conversely Forte seemed to have 4 or 5 free yards when our LBs were out of place several times throughout the night. Must be nice.
“What happens if we win Sunday? Still bad, but maybe less bad? What happens if we win 2 in a row? We’re back to being dangerous? And on and on and on.”
I think you judge purely on record, right now we’re 3-5 and have lost to a few middle of the road teams and beaten no one having a good season. Definitely below average.
It’s almost certain we have to go 7-1 to make the playoffs and that is just painfully unlikely.
Right now we are what we are. I’m not trying to change that or sugarcoat it, but that is a temporary label. In regard to making changes, you don’t know how the season will play out and what kind of an overall season we’d have had.
2006. We were 5-6 and there was a lot of Andy anger. We then went 5-0 and won the division. Were we “bad” at 5-6? Yeah, in the temporary sense. Was it a successful overall season and did we end up a good team? Yes. That’s the kind of thing I’m getting at.
Everyone now wants to label the team, but we don’t know how things will play out. Do we go 6-10, 8-8, or 10-6?
We had a bad game and god knows we’ve been disappointing this year, but we can’t lay down “bad” as a description for the 2011 season when we’re only halfway done.
Tommy,
Seriously, 5-6 would like good to me right now compared to where we are sitting.
This team might get to 5-6. Or 6-5. We’ll see.
Right now I’m focused on getting to 4-5. Gotta win Sunday.
They might. Roger Goodell might go back and look at Spygate and take away New England’s 2005 SB victory over us, thus giving us our first Super Bowl as well.
2004*
pure speculation: when andy proposed castillo as DC, i bet howie and banner were probably like “hmmm…. fine. but if this fails, it’s your ass”.
Andy got them to take Juan seriously as candidate. It was Juan who sold them.
But who knows what exactly they thought…
Speaks volumes to what a steal King Dunlap was in the 7th round only 4 years ago. A 6’9″ guy who has filled in at both tackle spots and now to guard? Does this say more about Winston Justice or maybe that we are underestimating King’s ability?
Justice’s knee still isn’t 100%. Plus, I don’t think he’s played G in a long time. Dunlap practiced at G on scout team for lots of 2010.
The king better be ready…Darnell Dockett may shove his helmet down his throat!!! On paper this week should be a blowout…but like it was said before, I am sure the Eagles will make Skelton look like Dan Marino. It’s so frustrating to look at a game like the Cardinals, who are terrible, and worry your team will loose. Simple solution in this game, 8 in the box to stop Beanie, Nmandi follow Fitzgerald around, even double Larry. Make Doucette beat you!!! Juan and Andy are probably at the drawing board right now figuring out ways to blow this game!!!
Tommy…stupid question here…but wanted you to confirm for me. The lions will lock Tullch long term correct? Damn shame…coulda sent Asante and Castillo straight up for him. Then used our 1st on DT from Penn State, and the two seconds on the best OLB on the board and another MLB and/or CB
Can’t extend him during season since he signed a 1-yr deal. Tulloch has to hit FA and then can be re-signed.
Will he want to? Tulloch wanted $6M per year this year and scared off all his suitors. He’s now playing for $3.25M. Will he go to the highest bidder? Will DET pay him huge bucks? Lots of unknowns. Has put up good numbers for them.
I would love for them to some how sign him. Give them Asante. They need a corner. He could be your vet in the middle running the defense. He has wide 9 exp and is a tackling machine. I’m fine with Rolle at WLB. Draft a top OLB with the cardinals pick. Use our first for like Morton said a stud DT. Our other second a CB or another OLB. Run with Chaney Mathews and unnamed player at backup LB. Dump Fokou clayton and Jordan.
In your opinion is he worth the Eagles Chasing? The Lions are needy in the secondary…dangle Asante out there?
The Question now is:
What would you if the eagles don’t beat the cardinals, given the fact that we would not only be out of playoff contention but also be hurting our future draft position?
Thanks for making my head explode. That nightmare scenario better not happen.
Sorry Tommy, that was not my intention. I still think we’re gonna play the Cards well, especially since a German just won the world series of Poker.
Tommy, I’m wondering if you could address line play in the GR. We seemed to get killed on both sides of the ball Monday night. I know the Eagles favor lighter, quicker DL for a few years and now on the OL as well. But it seems we don’t do well against the smashmouth, bigger teams. I realize this is a broader team philosphy-type question but was I seeing what I thought I was seeing with regard to our lines?
Tommy I’ve never seen this many Eagles players play so bad b4; everything from Cole missing an easy TFL on Forte to 3 players some how jumping on the ground and missing Cutler while he got up and completed a play.
Is there anyway to know if it’s something to do with the locker room, or maybe they all just caught McCoy’s stomach flu or something? It was just too odd. It’ll be kind of interesting to see just where their heads are at this Sunday. From what I saw I did like Rolle again though.
It’s odd how 2 of the 3 sort of captains/leaders/friends from last yr may be playing a role in hurting the team in the locker room & on the field. Asante and DJax. Vick just played bad like everyone else I think.
What is JJ’s height listed as? 6’6? 6’7? Is his height a problem? And could he be unathletic enough to fit in at OT instead of OG and protect Vick’s blindside?
I think Jim Johnson, the only JJ, was closer to 6′.
There is no way that Dunlap is getting picked over Jackson because Jackson is too tall.
Looking at the #’s, even though McCoy had 33 less yards (117 to 150). I’d rather have McCoy’s 1TD instead of Forte’s 2 fumbles. Who does everyone else think had a better INDIVIDUAL game btwn the 2?
Seems like our boy TL has been under some heat here. I’m going to pick nits here in that it’s a tiny bit misleading to say several. They’ve taken 3 LBs in the 2nd rd under Andy’s regime. 2 of them were his first 3 years. In the last 10 yrs they’ve taken exactly 1 LB in the 2nd rd. As Tommy pointed out, all 3 LBs have been busts (Gardner, Caver & McCoy) so I’m not sure picking more LBs in the 2nd round would help.
For a team that has struggled over the years at LB I find it hard to believed there haven’t been any guys who could’ve helped in the 1st or 2nd round in the last 10 yrs. I think the bigger problem with them is that they never seem to know what they want there. They’ll take guys who everyone thinks is a SAM and make him a WILL. They’ll pass on an obvious guy for LB, yet take a project/small school guy who never played LB and move him there. It seems like they rarely ever take a blue-chip type guy talent wise and put him at the LB position that is a natural fit. Just always seem to get too cute at the position.
Situation is complicated. Eagles were very high on Chad Greenway in 2006. Very high. There was no way they were passing on Brod Bunkley when he fell to that spot.
Things like that.
The JJ scheme was built on the DL and DBs. LBs could be worked in. They weren’t valued the same. That meant that the right player had to be available in order to make it worth going after him.
Just because ATL took Sean Weatherspoon in the 1st doesn’t mean the Eagles had the same grade on him or the same level of interest. The Falcons system values LBs much more and that’s why they’ve been aggressive there, but more passive with DBs.
Eagles have tried lots of stuff, but too often have failed. I’m not a fan of how they’ve handled LB. I’m glad we’re no longer taking projects (college DEs / athletes). Now we just need to take a player or two early to get real talent in the mix.
Do you know if there’s going to be any good free agents that would fit at the LB position this yr; maybe we could trade for Greenway. It seems like they draft better in the early rounds when someone falls in the draft rather than when they target a position or player. Just like with Bunk vs. Greenway or Mamula instead of Warren Sapp when they got DJax and McCoy in the 2nd rd when SI had us takeing them in the 1st or Maclin at 19th when he was supposed to go in the top 10. Or if they pick players they don’t need at the time like Lito and Sheldon. I’d rather them rely on the draft on players that work their way into the lineup and have little rumored off field problems that are winners who happen to fall then picking guys that aren’t by far the BAP. When they’re desperate for a position and try to force or prove they’re right things don’t seem to work out that well. I hope they get an amazing player rather than someone they try too hard to get at a particular position. In the future they wonder why they don’t have a Michael Jordan, Warren Sapp or somebody while the answers so obvious; their stuburness on who they want instead of what’s available.
I hope Howie realizes that the wide-9 is a LB needy defense…if there is not at least one LB taken with the first three picks, he needs to go. I can’t argue if a stud DT is taken in round one, but that cardinals picks needs to be a LB and possibly the Eagles second pick also.
I pretty much agree with everything you said. I’m just saying that there have been plenty of very good LBs over the years, so if the Eagles aren’t grading them properly that needs to be fixed.
For me it’s not so much about how many LBs they’ve drafted because you can’t prioritize every position in the draft. They’ve chosen OL, DL & CB, which I’m fine with. I think we’re on the same page that the real issue is that they’ve just failed in what they’ve tried to do at LB. Whether it was the draft, FA or trades.
Let’s hope they keep it simple going forward and pick guys who fit the positions and have the proper experience.
I’m looking forward to reading your opinion of Jarrett’s play in the DGR