More Eagles Draft Talk
Posted: April 6th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 33 Comments »My PE.com column covered the Eagles and the draft. Some good Coby Fleener and Vinny Curry talk in there.
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Here is a great piece from Rich Hoffman on the Eagles pursuit of Demetress Bell. The interesting hook is that Howie Roseman wanted him prior to JP’s injury.
At the time, we hadn’t re-signed King Dunlap and it sounds like Howie was hoping that Bell could come here as the #3 OT and be a great insurance policy.
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Adam Caplan reports the Eagles are expected to have a pre-draft meeting with C Ben Jones from Georgia. This would be curious. Maybe they love him. Jones will be a 3rd round pick at the latest. Caplan says he’s a 2nd rounder, but that’s far from a lock.
Jones could be a backup at G/C for us, but that would be a high pick for such a spot. It is possible Caplan’s wrong, but not likely. He has connections with every agent in the universe and plenty of NFL teams. His information is usually dead-on. I know the Eagles are high on Jason Kelce. They clearly love Evan Mathis. Maybe Jones would come in to push Danny Watkins. That would make some sense, but we just signed Mike Gibson and Steve Vallos for roles like that.
Could just be that the Eagles have mixed opinions on Jones between scouts and coaches and they want to come to a conclusion. I have gone back and forth with Jones. He was pedestrian at the Senior Bowl, but has good game tape.
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Aaron Wilson says the Eagles have worked out Iowa SS Jordan Bernstine. He is late round/UDFA material. Good hitter/tackler. Has KOR potential. Nothing special, but could be an NFL role player. Bernstine did have a great showing at his Pro Day. Problem is that you don’t always see the athleticism on tape.
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Covering some questions / topics from previous posts…
Give us a SAM update. I’ll write out a post on this. Right now I’m as confused as you are. The Eagles haven’t been linked closely to SAM targets, but most of the guys were at the Senior Bowl where the Eagles could see them up close and personal. Kuechly is a Junior and they met with him in Indy and worked him out in Boston. I don’t know what the plan is.
Mike Kafka. I made a joke about Mike and the excitement of seeing him vs PIT in the preseason. That wasn’t a slight at Mike so much as a poke at the way we get over-excited about any and every NFL news item. The preseason schedule? Yep.
I think we all are pretty excited to see Mike in action this summer. Is he our QB of the future or strictly a #3 type? This is a huge offseason for him.
Why do the Eagles always end the PS with the Jets? Cue up dumb UPS commercial – logistics. The NFL wants as little travel as possible for the final game. Some teams like Seattle or Arizona can’t be helped. The Eagles or Jets have a short trip home and can then quickly adjust to making cuts and moving toward the opening game.
Any similarities between Michael Vick and Russell Wilson as prospects? Both guys are mobile QBs who lacked ideal size. Neither QB was a polished passer. The big difference is that Wilson played for teams running an NFL style of offense and he got really good coaching. Vick was the VT offense back in 1999. He carried the team on his back. He led the Hokies to the title game and they lost a shootout to FSU.
Vick was young and very raw as a QB. Wilson is older and should be more polished. The fact that he’s not is a big reason I’m troubled by him. If a player has been exposed to NFL type coaching and still has basic issues, that is a major red flag to me. With Vick, we knew he was an athlete, but had no idea what kind of a passer he would be. He deserved to go high because of raw potential. Wilson isn’t nearly as talented, which hurts. He’s also more raw than a guy with his background should be.
The one thing I stress is that he’s smart, hard working, and seems coachable. The issues could go away when he is fully in an NFL environment. I’m just hesitant to believe they will.
Could the Eagles trade Bell in 2013? All the talk about Bell and the future is contingent upon the specific details of his contract. If he has high salaries, trading him wouldn’t be easy. Possible, though. We’ll figure out Bell’s future after we see his level of play and contract.
Rank Kuechly and MLBs from recent years. I’ll look into this when I get a chance. Busy, busy time right now.
Who are slot corner targets for the Eagles, aside from Boykin? I’m watching tape on them so that I can put up a post with good notes. Maybe this weekend. Maybe Monday.
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A few people wanted to know my thoughts on Matt’s mock draft over at ScoutsNotebook.
He had the Eagles take Kuechly at 15. Clearly I’d be happy with this. Love Luke. Could be a good SAM for us.
Matt then had the Eagles trade up to #31 and take TE Coby Fleener. I have written about Fleener a few times recently. He’s really grown on me. Big at 6-6. Fast. Great hands. Could be a WR/TE hybrid. Could be a better version of Todd Heap.
Matt then had the Eagles use pick 51 on DT Brandon Thompson. I wouldn’t be so keen on this move. I’d rather add a CB. Derek Wolfe is a DT I love and think would be a great fit. I’m not sure he’s going to be good enough for the 2nd round, but he could go in the 3rd. Thompson is a good player, but I think of him more as a NT in our system. We need someone behind Cullen Jenkins as the UT. Wolfe would be better there than Thompson.
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Twitter joke of the day goes to writer Eric Stangel (Letterman’s show):
When Gregg Williams eats a chocolate Easter bunny, he goes for the head first, then the outside ACL…
“That would make some sense, but we just signed Mike Gibson and Steve Vallos for roles like that.”
I think you answer your own question here. You don’t pass on any talent that you like in any round because you have Mike Gibson and Steve Vallos. They are totally irrelevant on draft day.
I was going to make the same comment. Right now, cutting Gibson and/or Vallos at the end of the season would make just as little noise as their initial signings. I don’t know a ton about Ben Jones, but if he is a late 2nd early 3rd round talent, Gibson and Vallos are irrelivant.
http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/04/02/cosell-talks-the-slot-factor/
Greg Cosell had a piece on slot corners in the draft.
This may have been discussed here and I missed it but in Sheil’s news wrap up he mentioned that Demetress Bell is Karl Malones illegitimate son?!? Not only that but: “Malone reportedly impregnated Bell’s mother when she was 13 and he was a sophomore at Louisiana Tech.” He also grew up in Malone’s hometown with Malone’s other two illegitimate kids who he has rekindled his relationship with (while ignoring Bell). Unbelievable. I knew I didn’t like Malone but I can safely say he is a grade A D-bag. Here’s the article: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080507
We have discussed it. Sad story, but good that Bell got past it and has become a successful person. Malone isn’t the saint that he was made out to be for many years.
I knew there was no stone unturned here! Now I’m rooting for him even more.
who is the back up C if Kelce goes down?
Probably Zane Taylor at the moment
Mike Gibson
Possbile sot corners in my mind would be: obviously Brandon Boykin, and then there is Jayron Hosley, Stephon Gilmore, Leonard Johnson, and Jamell Fleming. Boykin, Hosley, Gilmore are possible return men. Not sure about their experience i just see the numbers. While looking at football Special Teams is so underrated.
I always wondered how keenan Clayton would do at SAM. Is the problem with him just cant tackle big guys. So that would be every TE. The reason that i like Clayton at SAM is that he can cover like a SS and cover RB like an LB. It is not like if he does play SAM even if it is as a backup role that he would always cover a TE every down. How much did the SAM position change when Chaney left it and Fokou/Jordan took over? Clayton is probably already on the field enough for his skill level during the nickel/dime packages anyways.
I would like eagles to somehow get a RZ target but would a 1st rnd TE/WR hybrid be a bit much? Is there such thing as a bit much? Ladarius Green would be able to do the same and not be counted as much as a TE. See the eagles need a RedZone target and they also should bolster up the slot receiver position. Could Tommy Streeter be that guy? Hes 6-5.
O ye Eagles need another UT. What ever happened to Akiem Hicks he would need prob some development. What round would he go in? I gues 4-7 obviously. A lot of DL coaches would probably want to get hands on him. Would it be good idea eagles draft 3rd rnd Derek Wolfe and then 5 or 4 Akiem Hicks?
With the Wide 9 the SAM doesn’t have contain so he lines up more inside and has to deal with alot more traffic. Do you really want Clayton mixing it up with a guard who has a free release?
your right he is way better in space. that position seems harder to get someone to fit the skills set than MLB. he also doesnt have ideal height at 6-1. i would rather have 6-3 or 6-4 at i guess regular 240-250 pounds for a LB.
Thanks for the Wilson update. The Vick comparisson was all about being more proficient a passer when outside of the pocket which was flashed as a graphic quite a bit during his Falcon’s tenure. Vick’s conversion to pocket passer has also been well publisized with lots of graphics and film time devoted to it with a lot of talk about never setting his feet in the pocket. This was my point and wondered if Wilson had similar traits. After that, there is no comparisson from me anyways.
Do you think Wilson would be more polished had he not split his time between 2 sports? Clearly the NCSU wanted him to spend more time on football.
Tommy – Cosell seems to like DeQuan Menzie more than Boykin as a slot CB prospect. What do you think about Menzie vs. Boykin? I don’t think I’ve seen you comment on Menzie at all (apologies if I missed it). Who do you think is most likely to be drafted first?
Watching tape of Menzie. Started last night. Got more to get through. Will cover him in the upcoming post.
I wish the eagles played the Baltimore Ravens instead of New York Jets. Isnt Baltimore closer than Meadowlands anyway? That would have made it to 3 teams that they play in regular season that they play in the preseason.
No.
If the Eagles traded back into the mid 20’s what kind of picks would that net them? a 2nd and 6th or something? What is the value of moving back 10 picks.
From the trade value chart (which I doubt teams actually use), moving from pick 15 to 25 is worth 330 points or the same as pick 57 (25th in the second round). Denver has the 25th and 57th pick.
“Matt then had the Eagles trade up to #31 and take TE Coby Fleener. I have written about Fleener a few times recently. He’s really grown on me. Big at 6-6. Fast. Great hands. Could be a WR/TE hybrid. Could be a better version of Todd Heap.”
Glad you’re coming around, Tommy.
On your Fan-Demonium article and talk above, there is quite a few DTs between Cox and Wolfe, which of Worthy, Still, and Reyes do you like for the Eagles should they be going in that direction? (your thoughts on Poe and Brockers already noted.) Reyes was a 2 time team captain, something that Roseman has said to value.
Reyes is interesting. Played NT at UConn, but is probably more of a natural UT. Good athlete. I need to study his Senior Bowl tape and get a better feel for him as a pass rusher. Could be a 2nd round target for us.
Yes! I have been peddling the Kendall Reyes hype for a few weeks now. If, and only IF we don’t get Cox in the 1st round, I’m absolutely clamoring to get Reyes in the 2nd round. I think he could be a monster here.
What’s your opinion of WR Jeff Fuller? I like his size and he looks like a decent redzone/ first down receiver.
Not my cup of tea. Big, but lacks athletic ability. Inconsistent hands. Makes one good catch, drops one easy pass.
T-Law wrote:
“Maybe [C Ben] Jones would come in to push Danny Watkins.”
The word “push” in this context is one you’ve used, most recently, in reference to WLB Brian Rolle — a 6th round pick.
I’m a bit discouraged to see you using that same term with respect to last year’s 1st round pick.
No question, getting better at all positions — BPA — should be every team’s goal.
But pushing to get better at RG in Philadelphia so soon . . . that’s a bit worrisome.
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HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!
I think the Eagles are happy with Watkins progress, but I don’t know this for a fact. That’s why I’m speculating about Jones and RG.
Could be that the Eagles would love him simply to be the top interior OL. I think spending a 2nd or 3rd round pick on such a guy at a spot where you don’t rotate players is a bit questionable. I do trust Mudd. If he likes someone, I’m on board.
No Aussie rugby player for us
Hayden Smith apparently has joined the circus a.k.a. the Jets.
Would’ve been interesting to have seen what he’s got as a TE
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/05042012/58/world-cup-rugby-star-signs-new-york-jets.html
Think you’re reading too much into Ben Jones, I have him as a late round pick, very few centers go in the top 100, and they’re usually guys who are good enough athletes to be starting guard prospects as well, Jones certainly doesn’t fit that mold. I think they’re just doing due diligence, every year draft sites put guys in their top 100 that last and last and . . .to around pick 200. I’m not sure Jones would be much of an upgrade over Taylor, who we picked up off the street.
Eagles do a lot of due diligence on late round pick types, they’ve done very well the last four or five years finding guys who can start, or at least be top backups, even for some other team. That’s a good way to build good, cheap depth and maybe you get lucky.
I think the distribution of players in this draft will effect them, people usually see depth as the first round or so, but if you’re drafting, you’re going 6 rounds (before trades):
QB – I think you go high, or go late
RB – after Martin, I think they’d wait a while, Pierce doesn’t fit
WR – this position gets deeper every year due to the spread, so unless Blackmon falls, I see them waiting, there will be plenty of solid guys throughout this draft
TE – thin, thin, thin, they might go H-back with Rodriquez, Fleener is a tough fit, they like Harbor who’s a much better blocker and has 4.64 speed, Fleener would really have to be a big WR for two years – is there a role for him that justifies a high pick?
OL – OT is really thin, not too many suitable OGs for Mudd, I think this is the late round flyer position, just no one worth a reach
DE – Branch, Curry or bust, I’d go undersized fliers late after these two
DT – my cop overflowth with great athletes late in the draft, up to Washburn to pick the ones he thinks he can coach up, earlier it’s Cox or whoever drops among Wolfe and Crick
LB – solid depth through the 4th or 5th rounds, I can see some serious red light shopping here
CB – a good year to go nickel, I like some of the physical CBs who lack deep speed for nickel
S – I’d look at either the small college athletes or big CBs smart enough to convert, after Barron it’s pretty thin
I think you’re vastly underselling Jones. No way he lasts past the 4th round. I think he’ll go Top 100.
Fleener is a good blocker. Had to be in Stanford’s offense.
Agree on QB. I’m hoping late.
Just don’t like Jones, strikes me as an overachiever who has little pro upside – that is, he’s not a raw athlete to be polished, but a 4 year starter at a SEC school, what you see is probably all you’re ever gonna get.
6-3 303 [5.44 29 4.74 7.95 30 8’9]
Look at Zane Taylor last year,
6-3 309 [5.52 1.89 37 4.77 8.15 25 8’8]
Jones is the better athlete, but only marginally.
I just have trouble seeing them in this system.
Mudd had Saturday, before him Mawae in Seattle.
Konz to me is the only OL who’d fit, but you’d have to draft him too high, and with Bell on board, and Vandervelde, what would be the point?
I saw reports that Fleener weighed in at 241 lbs on his pro day, down from 247 at the combine, then runs the fast 40 – that raises red flags to me – he was gaming the system by not running at the heavier weight at the combine. Doesn’t mean he’s not a player, but I’m a little suspicious of how fast he’ll run when he bulks up to true TE size.
Hey Tommy, the Bengals just released Chris Crocker, any chance we pick him up? He has some durability concerns, but started every game for the Bengals last year. He’s also a team captain. To me, he seems like the ideal player for us to bring in at S, especially since he is a leader on defense. He could come in and compete with Ja-Jar and Coleman right away and may even be the favorite to win the job. We could probably get him cheap too. It’s not like we are hard pressed at the safety position. The more I think about it the more signing him appeals to me. Hope to hear your opinion soon!
Ps. Has Chaz Powell been able to help himself since the combine and pro day? Is there a chance he can sneak into the late rounds?
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