Scouting Update, Misc Stuff
Posted: May 1st, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 55 Comments »Phil Savage has been a scouting consultant with the Eagles for the last few years. He also was the analyst for Alabama football games on the radio. Savage today was hired to run the Senior Bowl, taking over for Steve Hale. Savage will continue his work on Alabama football broadcasts.
Shortly after Savage’s announcement, Daniel Jeremiah left the team to pursue a media gig of some sort. Jeremiah worked for Savage for other teams so they have a tight relationship.
I don’t think losing either guy is huge. Savage was once a golden boy in the personnel world, but that was a long time ago. He is a native of Mobile, AL so being able to work for the Senior Bowl, in his hometown, has to be a great gig for him. It was hard to tell if Savage had much of an effect in his time here. He knew the SEC well, but the SEC is “The Conference” for finding pro prospects. All 32 teams know the SEC pretty darn well.
I can’t say much about Jeremiah. He’s been a good enough scout to work for multiple teams, but Savage has been at each stop so it is fair to question if that was a package deal. If you want Savage, you must hire his buddy. Just speculation. I’ve never heard anyone question him so as far as I’m concerned he must be at least a solid scout.
Jeremiah is on Twitter if you want to now follow him.
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For now, let’s review the Personnel Dept hierarchy.
GM – Howie Roseman
* Player Personnel Executive – Rick Mueller
Director of Pro Personnel – Louis Riddick
Director of College Scouting – Anthony Patch
That’s a good group, if you like Roseman. We’ll discuss him another day in a long post. For now, let’s focus on the other guys. Riddick has really done a nice job in recent years. I hope we’re able to keep him. There were rumors that a person or two might follow Ryan Grigson to Indy. Contracts run out after the draft so if there are any changes, they would come in the next couple of weeks.
Patch has emerged as a central figure for the draft. I wrote about him shortly after Grigson’s departure. Anthony has done a really good job of finding players in the West/Northwest. Patch was promoted to his current job when Grigson left (his old spot). We definitely want to keep Patch around.
Another guy to keep an eye on is Brett Veach, our Southeast area scout. He was an assistant to Andy Reid prior to this gig. It was Veach who got in his ear and convinced Reid to take DeSean Jackson. Veach this year was the guy who first got the Fletcher Cox train going.
Veach spent a lot of time with Juan Castillo at the Senior Bowl. That’s generally a good sign when the Defensive Coordinator is picking your brain as you look at the top Senior football prospects. I cannot confirm if they ate dinner with Casey Matthews family. I’m pretty sure they split a bag of Funyuns with Vinny Curry, so that’s a good sign.
Jeremiah was listed as the West area scout. He will need to be replaced. Rick Mueller is already set as a consultant and might keep the team from looking for anyone to replace Savage. There has been talk of him going to the Senior Bowl for a while so the Mueller hiring may have been done specifically for that reason.
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Could the Eagles add anyone major to the mix? Possible. They didn’t replace Grigson, just promoted Patch to his job. That might be good enough. Anthony can run the college scouting department. Riddick runs the pro side of things. Roseman oversees the whole thing.
I don’t think the Eagles need to do anything. Take a look around. If a good scout or personnel exec is available, make a call. If there market is pretty empty, don’t force a hire. We’ve already got good guys in place.
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More Draft Stuff
* Why draft Bryce Brown if Polk had a 4th round grade? Polk was probably off the draft board. You can put a grade on a player, but not have him on the board. Polk is a player that had a very productive career. You don’t ignore him. His medical and/or character questions knocked him off the board, but that does not mean he wasn’t studied and graded. Getting him as a UDFA is fine. No investment of a pick, just a small signing bonus.
Also, I think the Eagles liked Brown better. Liked…not had rated higher. Here’s what I mean. Chris Polk was a try-hard guy at Washington. Great effort runner who fought for every yard. He isn’t special in any way. Brown is 5-11, 224. He is more naturally gifted. Ted Williams was really impressed with his workout. He saw a very good combination of size, speed, and movement skills. Chris Polk is available every draft. A guy with Brown’s raw talent is not available in the 7th round all that often. You are rolling the dice on Brown, but he has serious potential. I guess it is possible the Eagles had a mid-round grade on Brown, but I would hope not. I’d prefer for this to be a wildcard type of pick.
* What non-1st Rounders did you regret the Eagles not getting? I really did like the guys we got so I don’t have many complaints. That said, there are always guys you wanted to see in green. Several of my favorite guys were DL, but I’ll leave that out. Would have loved to see us find a way to get WR Mohamed Sanu or WR Keshawn Martin. Sanu is the big, physical guy with athletic ability. Martin is smaller, but more dynamic and a gifted RS.
Also, it would have been cool to draft Tank Carder as a backup LB in the mid to late rounds.
* Any UDFAs? Again, we got a very good group so there were no major complaints.
* I’ll get into specific issues with our draftees as I do lengthy write-ups on them. I won’t go in order. I’ll choose the most interesting players and move around.
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The Eagles have invited a Canadian WR for a tryout at the post-draft mini-camp. His name is Shamawd Chambers. He has good size and posted good workout numbers.
You can check out his highlights. He’s got stiff hips. Straight line guy. That’s not good. Longshot to get a Training Camp invite, but you never know. He was really good at his level in college. Maybe the NFL will bring out the best in him.
Hey@tommy do you thin eagles would make move for jacoby jones wr from texan big guy run pretty fast and pretty good return specalist. I would drop cooper for him
I wonder why he got canned, with Houston being thin at WR due to Johnson’s injury.
His numbers aren’t impressive and he’s not much of an improvement over Avant. I’d still consider him. We usually keep 6 WRs, I see 5 guysmaking it (Jackson, Maclin, Avant, Cooper and McNutt). He’s probably a better option than the UDFA that will make the team.
Jones would make some sense. Could be the #4 WR and compete at PR/KOR. Has some size. Eagles will probably stick with the young guys for now. Getting a look at Riley Cooper, McNutt, Damaris J., Gilyard, Ron J., etc. in the post-draft camp will give them an idea if we’re okay or a move needs to be made.
Tommy, what’s your dream job? I mean outside of being Megan Foxx’s cabana boy, or the PBR quality control taste tester, do you have aspirations of getting on the Eagle’s scouting crew, or parlaying your skills in the mainstream media?
It would be a nice way to make a living as the Eagles scout, Tommy. I often wonder what Tommy do to earn a living. He spent tons of time on film studies, write reports, talk with NFL people, read football news, etc. And these are on top of dreaming about Megan, watching movies old and new, listening to music of many kinds. If there is still time left, he must have held down some kind of jobs to pay bills and buy beer. Question is what it is? Care to share with the group?
Tommy needs a Wikipedia page and needs to be petitioned to be a scout for the Eagles!
I’m selfish. As long as Tommy can live the way he wants, I want to keep reading.
Many jobs would compromise the insight he brings here. I don’t think I would find anyone to read that is as accessible and knowledgeable as Tommy.
I’m all over the place. I fell in love with the idea of being a genius Defensive Coordinator growing up as I read about Tom Landry and Buddy Ryan, two of my coaching heroes (and polar opposites).
I majored in broadcasting in college and developed a love for football and talk radio. I worked in broadcasting for a while, but that’s a brutally tough racket.
It was in that period that I began to fall in love with the idea of being a football scout. That was a huge focus of mine for about a decade. Unfortunately, most guys in scouting played football in college (small or big schools). I played only one year in HS and wasn’t even at the top of the scrubs. I lacked talent, size, and athleticism.
In a fantasy world I’d love to work for a personnel department…either as a scout or as someone who has a combo job (part administrator/part scout).
At this point, I’d happily settle for anything that let me write about/cover football for a living. Clearly I’d love it to be Eagles related, but I won’t lie. I’d work for Jerry Jones. I’d work for the Sultan of Brunei if he wanted a football blog on the nation’s official website. I’d gladly be Penthouse’s draft expert. I’m really not picky. I just want a chance to make football the focus of my career.
Currently I have a boring gig that just happens to pay the bills and keep me in front of a computer during the day. During quiet times I write about football. Other people take smoke breaks or play Angry Birds or search Craigslist for hookers or furniture. I write. I’m not normal, as my friend and family let me know on a regular basis.
Howie was a lawyer right? Don’t remember him playing…
Frankly I’m a little surprised the Eagles haven’t taken you on in a more official role yet. What do you think the biggest hurdle is that you have to become a scout?
when you say “penthouse’s draft expert”, you mean for their draftees right??? let me know if you ever need an assistant.
Now that is a combine I’d watch.
I just absolutely love reading your blog Tommy. I don’t think that many fans are lucky enough to be able to get a ‘behind-the-scenes’ look like we are.
It just gives me an opportunity to be an even bigger fan than I already am. Thanks!
A quick question for you, that I don’t think we got answered during the draft: What happened with Antonio Allen? How did he fall to the bottom of the 7th? I wanted him badly from the 5th and down, and then started to hope he’d go undrafted, so we could pick him up there.
Did you hear anything? I know you had him as a 3rd/4th round prospect for us, and really liked his ability to be a ‘rover’ safety that covers opposing TE’s and bigger slot receivers…
I would also like to hear your thoughts on Allen. Seemed to slide, IMHO
Scouts had a mixed opinion on Allen. Some liked him, others didn’t. There must have been some kind of red flag for him to fall all the way to the bottom of the draft. Could have been a low Wonderlic (not good at S), a positive drug test, poor interviews with teams, or a checkered past. I have no idea.
It is possible teams just had him rated low, but 7th? That’s really surprising to me. I think there must have been an outside factor that pushed him down.
We also always bring in a Canadian FA.
I wonder if the reward for the guy that scouts the CFL is a promise that they will bring in one guy a year and give him a shot.
I never really got that stuff about Veach propping up Jackson to Reid. It was a long story in my local paper since Veach lived near me. How much talking did he need to do to Reid? I’m pretty sure anyone that follows college football was aware of Jackson. I remember entering his junior year, I was at my cabin for Labor Day weekend and Tennessee – Cal was on primetime. Tennessee was punting and I remarked to one of my friends, “hey, check out this returner for Cal, he’s good.” A few misses here and there and Jackson took it to the house.
The Cox story I could believe more than the Jackson one because Cox was a little known player from, arguably, the least popular/talented team in the SEC.
If I had to guess, it would be massaging out the “character issues” the wounds were probably still fresh from T.O. But the time spent with Rice genuinely seemed to help DeSean. With the exception of last year, I think it’s safe to say that DeSean has been a great draft pick, and his character issues even seem to help the team at times. I certainly hope he can return to form this year.
I agree 100%. And I also strongly believe that we will hear ‘Vick to Desean for a huge gain’ many many times this season.
Veach didn’t “discover” DeSean. DJax was a star player. Veach sold Andy that he was so special that he was worth the risk. Remember, there were a lot of stories prior to that draft about DeSean’s immaturity and the baggage that came with him. Not all 32 teams had him on their board. Add in to DJax’s issues that he was just 5-10, 170 and that made him even tougher to like. Veach was relentless in selling DJax to Andy as a special talent. That is noteworthy. DeSean slid to the mid-2nd so clearly lots of other coaches, GMs, and scouts figured the star player was not worth the risk.
Well, my frame of reference comes from the local article I read years back. I guess I should take it with a grain of salt since a local paper would obviously want to fluff him up a bit.
T
with Grigson out Iggles had arguably their best draft ever.coincidence?
any possible trade partners for Iggles with regards to Tapp? Denver could use another pass rusher no?
I would think he was still involved in a majority of the preparation prior to leaving. I guess we could guess about whether he had influences on draft days that otherwise were not there this time.
I am a major fan of this draft, but before you can credit or discredit Grigson (regardless of if he is connected to this draft or not), I think we need to see these guys have success on the field. Until that happens, this draft can’t be called “the Eagles best draft ever.”
Edit: I meant to reply to nopain23 not Eric.
I agree with the sentiment that it would have been nice for the eagles to get a big, physical wide receiver somewhat early in the draft. With that being said, what are the chances we sign Plaxico? I haven’t heard anything on that front for a while. Any updates?
zero chance we sign plaxico until we see cooper and mcnutt in camp.
Longshot for now. McNutt is the big physical guy. 6-3, 216.
If Marvin struggles in the camps, the team could go after Plax. All about money for now. Plax is willing to be a #3 WR, but he doesn’t want to be paid like a #3 WR.
Noticed Braylon Edwards isn’t signed either. Don’t know how he’d fit, or if he’s shaken off the injuries of last year, but he’s a talented dude. We have plenty of cap room…I’m sorry Riley, but I don’t think want to see Riley Cooper on the field as much this year.
With the suspensions caused by BountyGate, the Saints desperately need DEs. I’m sure Howie has Loomis on the phone. 4th rounder!
With Bryce Brown, do you worry that the guy just does not know how to play the position at a high level, because he has played so little over the past few years? There have often been guys with loads of talent but they don’t have much technique or good instincts. They usually bomb, unless they make a mark on ST.
Turn the clock back to the 1970s or ’80s or even the ’90s . . . a guy like Bryce Brown could actually catch on and do fine for a team intent on pounding the rock.
The early ’70s Dolphins (though I doubt BB would be Shula’s cup of tea); the 1970’s Steelers, who were the best drafting team during that decade . . . maybe any decade; and even the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys (though Johnson was a task master and would give BB about 3 inches of rope).
Back in those days, it was widely accepted that, of any position on the field, a rookie could step into the HB position and make plays . . . even if he missed all of training camp (as Emmitt Smith did).
Nothing was easier than saying, “Brown right, 26-I HB toss” and watching the rookie HB take a pitch and run to daylight. Bryce Brown could have shown his skills in that setting easily, assuming he learned the calls.
Needless to say, the game’s so much more complicated.
In my way of thinking, the biggest challenge facing Brown is not rust. Nor blocking. Nor even showing some fight.
It’ll be learning the terminology of the WCO.
His head’ll be exploding and he’ll be mentally exhausted.
As the great Vince Lombardi loved to preach, fatigue makes cowards of us all.
That’s when the rubber hits the road for Brown. Will he quit. Or will he fight.
True. And in a way, poetic.
Off topic: Reportedly Junior Seau is deceased. Shooting investigation. RIP.
Suicide…
Don’t wanna speculate, but that’s what they suspect. Went out like Dre. Sad. Two guys, who to me, were the absolute embodiment of strength, to be taken so low. These kind of things always help me to reflect on the way we sometimes think of these men as commodities, rather than human beings.
It surprises me that there aren’t more psychologists available to help guide these warriors into the next phase of life. They need wise counsel to manage finances and they have the finances to get the help to manage a post football career and family life.
What could be a beautiful thing too frequently turns ugly.
With all the talk about Plax and how good he is at jump balling. Plax had a 33 inches VL, compare that to newly drafted Eagles LB Kendricks there had a VL of 39.5 inches or Giants RB Wilson with a 41 inches VL, both guys are around 5.11 compared to Plax there is 6.5 high.
I think Tommy and others are in agreement with you… that the Vert on Kendricks may allow him to be an undersized SAM in our system until we need him to slide to Mike.
Agree-ance.
or is it -ence.
Indeed, Jimmy Graham had a 38.5 inches VL while been 6.6 or 8 inches taller then Kendricks and Gronkowski had only a 33.5 VL
Still I doubt we would let him go 1 on 1 vs either of those guys too often. Fortunately neither one is in our division.
Great video on youtube profiling all the eagles picks….except the olineman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9N0fVNistw
Tommy —
With all of the focus on the SAM slot during the draft run-up period can we take another look at what unfolded there? One of the most heartening outcomes of the draft was the FO’s according the SAM acquisition such high priority. There was certainly concern that the FO might accept the status quo at SAM or, at best, use a third or fourth on the position.
The selection of Kendricks at 46 helps me understand why the Eagles took a pass on Hawthorne and Dunbar. It looks as if they knew there were better options in the second round.
Tampa Bay’s pick of Lavonte David a half round after we selected supports your concern that despite his skill-set David is too light for other than WLB. Tampa Bay is OK at SAM and MLB with Black and Foster but had a serious need for a replacement WILL. Also, Zach Brown, who is a candidate for SAM and WILL, along with Wagner, preceded David.
We’ll probably never know if Seattle’s trading down with the Jets and picking Wagner at 47 significantly changed what we would have done. Would Seattle have taken Kendricks if they had stayed at 44, and was it our active vetting of Wagner and lack of apparent review of Kendricks that might have led them to think that Kendricks would be available at 47 (giving them comfort in trading down from 44)?
In the past couple of months you seemed to feel that Kendricks was out of consideration at SAM because he didn’t make the 6’0″ cut. Kendricks and Wagner have similar speed, jumping, weight, and production numbers. Do you now feel that Kendricks may have the edge, his height notwithstanding, in instinctiveness, intensity, and blitzing moves? Also, does he predict better because he played in a tougher conference?
When we drafted Kendricks, it first made me question why why took him over a taller Bobby Wagner. Its obvious though they like Kendricks for his playmaking ability and speed off the edge. I think they fell in love with Kendricks far before the major scouting process started in January. Our pass rush + our Corners ability to cover one on one gives us an extra player to use however we want most of the time (Kendricks). With the speed and talent our Dline gives PLUS the speed Kendricks has off the edge, I just dont see how teams will not have to keep 1-2 players in on every passing situation. I mean If you think about it, why couldn’t Kendricks play the Charles Woodson/Brian Dawkins role in our D. I bet Kendricks is a player they try to revolve the D around in the future.
Interesting thoughts. I didn’t consider Kendricks’ use in such a pivotal role.
Sign Chambers. Not just off the highlights, cause I could care less bout the clips, I just see that he’s a big fast WR. Develop him for 2 yrs if need be and if he doesn’t pan out then let him go. Reasoning in that is I do think while we should keep djax and Mac, I would love for our other WR’s to be bigger. Also we put up w/ 2-3 yrs of 6’3″ Cooper who played at most times like he was 5’10” and and 5’8″ chad hall who at this point is just taking up a roster spot. If McNutt can take Avant’s spot either sometime this yr or next yr and Cooper can get pushed back to #4 or 5 I would not mind that at all while we keep trying to plug in bigger and faster WR’s outside of Djax and Mac. And let’s face it we could definitely use an upgrade over Avant. Someone w/ hands and legs, meaning they can get some yards after the catch. Plus avant has been dropping a lot of passes the last 2 yrs. If Chambers has natural athletic ability, hands, and most importantly the proper work ethic/desire then I’m pulling for him. But only time will tell so why not give the guy a shot over the other small not so fast UFDA’s. And as a side note, screw Plax. He whores himself out to any team willing to listen w/ the line of ‘I would love and always wanted to play w/ the (fill in the blank) !
One of our WRs dropped a lot of passes the last couple of years, but not sure it was Avant. Granted, I think there were two big ones he dropped, but not many overall. From 2008-2010 he was 6th in the league among receivers w/ at least 50 catchable targets per season, in terms of DROP% at 5.26% with a total of 8. DeSean was 41st out of 45 qualifying WRs at 12.1% and 26 drops. In 2010 he dropped almost 1 out of every five catchable balls w/ 12 drops!!! Couldn’t find a compilation from 2011, but I know DJax was tied for 7th in number of drops at 9. Not trying to say Avant is better. That would be ridiculous. I’d be okay if one of the young guys supplants him, just not sure it’s a glaring need. I definitely in agree-ence w/ you about him running like he’s got his shoes on backward, but to dog him for drops is just plain criminal. I’ll tell ya one thing, regardless of who ends up w/ more snaps in the slot, I know who I’m going to on 3 and 7.
… and they better be able to block their ass off, too!
Yeah I know who I’m going to also on 3rd and 7… Celek! Drops just as less as avant does yet even if he catches the ball short of the 1st can still turn it into a 1st. Plus I do believe that a more mobile slot, who hopefully would be bigger, would open up the passing game even more for Brent. We under utilize the hell out of him and now that our line is starting to come together, minus Peters, he should get a lot more looks. And yeah Avant has been solid from 08-10 but last season was 2011 and despite what the stats say, it’s in 2010 when I noticed him starting to miss catches that he would make “w/ his eyes closed”. As far as last season I noticed it more and more w/ the coup de grace being the buffalo game. Yet one game doesn’t lessen how he has come up big for us. I really just think it’s time 4 our offense to grow past him. Imagine our offense which is already hyper productive, w/ an actual threat for a 3rd WR. No way do I care that avant catches more than desean per targets cuz, despite that useless stat, djax has out scored avant by a mile. And w/ djax being able 2 do that from anywhere on the field at any given time, it only opens up targets for Avant. So I was not trying 2 dog him for his drops. Just stating the fact that he’s not doing nething after the catch and his seemingly always reliable hands have been reduced 2 just reliable…lol. Glad this is football, not baseball, where stats like the 1 u brought up really dont tell even 1/2 the story in how the game is played and won. However, not trying 2 belittle or put u down in anyway,it was a very interesting stat that I was not aware of.
Avant has been frustrating to watch the last couple of season. He does move the chains between the 20s but it seems that when the Eagles get into the RZ he suddenly becomes unreliable. He is very good at blocking but an upgrade at slot would be very welcome.
Haha, Celek. I do love his RAC ability and think it’s a very underrated part of his game. Again, we’ll have to wait til this years stats for TE drops are out there, but he doesn’t have history on his side. In 2010, Celek was 29th out of 38 w/ 5 drops on 49 balls. The year before, he tied the league in dropped passes for all position players w/ 12. I do know that as of the Texans game in 2011 he had 5 drops.
The 2011 numbers for WRs have been released. Jason Avant was tied for 16th best in the league w/54 balls and 3 drops, a total which ranked 4th overall in the league. In 2010, the first year you started to notice his hands slipping, he led the league w/ zero drops. Maybe, it was the year before that, when you noticed. He did have 1 drop that year. In a sense, you are right that he had a down year. 3(4th in NFL) is worse than 0 or 1. Just not bad, or a lot. Maybe that one against Buffalo should count for a half dozen, tho. It was a choke job.
Anyway, I think we agree about most of this stuff. Of course, I would like to see a dynamic playmaker added to the offense. That guy could be our 4th or 5th, too. I want Chad Hall replaced in a big way! I have no issue w/ anyone saying Avant is slow, can’t elevate, doesn’t score in the RZ (although, neither does anyone else) or really any other complaint you could make about the guy…other than his hands. I can’t even remember a player who’s had hands slip do to age. Usually, the one thing old guys are still able to do. Maybe, if their eyes go. I’d also, not give DeSean a free pass for dropping one out of every 5-6 catchable balls because he takes the lid off of the defense. With his ability to score from anywhere, (w/ the exception of the Red Zone but rarely), imagine how many more TDs he would have, had he not dropped 21 balls over the last 2 seasons. Just work at your craft, is all I’m saying. He hasn’t shown me anything that he couldn’t already do from the day he got here. Doesn’t work on his strength, doesn’t work on his hands, at least not at a noticeable level…and in reality he only averaged 0.68 of a yard more than slow ass Avant YAC in ’11. He is fast, tho. I really do think he’s gonna have a big year, too. Just frustrated w/ his unfulfilled potential. Guys his size, don’t usually get a lot of years in this league and he’s letting them drift by. He’s still young, so I’ve got a lot of hope for him. I love him, I root for him and I want to see him have a long bountiful career as an Eagle.
This appears to be a very well scouted draft, with good late round picks. Last year the Pro Player acquisitions improved, netting guys like Jenkins, Mathis, Nmandi, and Babin, but before that they had a few bad years.
I joked before that Grigson can be blamed for past drafts but he had one of the best drafts last week at Indy. Unlike the Skins, who surrounded RG3 with free agent WRs, Grigson drafted two TEs and then two WRs, all of which seemed to be good values, including Luck’s Stanford teammate Fleener. These guys will be playing for years together, and after a while they will know each others routes and tendencies well so that they can play intuitively… a scary thought, considering what people think of Luck’s potential.
Yeah, our pro player guys did an outstanding job. I’m certain Babin wanted to come here to reunite with Washburn, but Jenkins and Mathis were slam dunks.
We’ve managed this off-season very well too. Their input has to be a big part of that.
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