Eagles Notebook
Posted: June 14th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 45 Comments »There is no one giant topic today, but there are a few things happening. Let’s start with a couple of roster moves. The Eagles signed LB Ryan Rau and DE Frank Trotter. This now gives the Eagles 89 players on the 90-man roster.
Rau is a player that I didn’t watch prior to the draft. He played at Portland State. I’ve since watched some highlights. He looks like a MLB to me, but there is no telling what the Eagles have in mind. I don’t think he has a realistic shot at the roster.
Trotter (just sounds good doesn’t it?) was a DT for most of his career at Memphis. He moved to DE in 2011. Trotter is small for DT, but not athletic enough for DE. His hero needs to be Tony Brown, another player from Memphis who played for Jim Washburn. Tony went from afterthought to starting DT. He lacked ideal size, but had a very good motor and was just a good player. The Eagles are listing Trotter as a DE. At that spot, he’s got little shot. As a DT, he’d need to bulk up to 285 (from 6-1, 270). He might have a shot as a backup 1-gap DT. Still, he’d be a longshot at that role.
I enjoyed watching Trotter play (while trying to study Dontari Poe). Trotter was the better college player. He had 33 TFLs over the last 3 years. Poe had 21.5. Trotter has a very good motor. Too bad he’s not bigger (for DT) or more athletic (for DE). Trotter is the kind of guy you want to make it, but there is a reason he was sitting on the street in mid-June.
Best of luck to the 2 new Eagles.
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I’m not sure what to make of this.
On one hand, you want to let players be themselves and do the things that interest them. Trent Cole hunts. Ditto that for Jason Babin. Evan Mathis stalks Katy Perry on Twitter. Danny Watkins isn’t an active fireman, but stays involved. Troy Vincent was into all kinds of things during his career. He was quite the businessman. Darwin Walker was part of an engineering firm.
On the other hand, you do worry about outside ventures affecting football. Vincent never had an issue. Nor Trent Cole. I always wondered if Darwin’s play suffered from him being distracted. Darwin was dominant for a lot of 2002, but never played at that same level. Was it simply a matter of him getting the big deal and then letting up or was he trying to do too much. I have no proof he was distracted. Just a casual guess on my part.
So what about DeSean and helping to run a rap label and get his own rap career off the ground? As McManus points out, that is an expensive hobby. I’m sure DeSean has great plans, but that’s true of all young artists. 99 percent don’t work as hoped. If the rap thing doesn’t work, will it be significantly costly to him? Will that affect his ability to focus on football?
What if he is successful? That could be just as big, if not bigger, of a distraction. Will he be able to focus on the Falcons defense if he’s hearing about different ways to promote his hit song?
I’m not real keen on anything that crosses the line from hobby to 2nd occupation/obsession. The NFL is a year round job these days. Study the great players. Study the champions. Do what they do.
DeSean has great intentions, but so did Mark Brunell when he started investing money years ago. Now he’s legally broke and owes tens of millions of dollars. All those career earnings are out the window.
Go play. Go have some fun. Be careful about investing your money. The one line that sent out the red flag for me was in here:
“It’s just a different lifestyle and things like that I’m getting into,” says Jackson, “and just kind of helping out my boys that I grew up with, and just hopefully make it a career as far as rapping and things like that.”
Helping out your friends can be a great thing, but has also ruined more than a few people. Who do you say no to? How much money are you helping them out with? All it takes is the one guy who takes advantage of you and things can get very complicated in a hurry.
Good luck, DeSean. Please, please make smart choices. Oh…and would you be interested in sponsoring an Eagles blog? I promise to give you good rates.
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Here’s some nuggets from Dave:
* Antonio Dixon has lost weight and looks good.
* Dave says Kurt Coleman is clearly the starter and wasn’t challenged by Jaiquawn Jarrett. That’s not good. Jarrett is a physical player and not an athlete so the OTAs weren’t set up for him, but this is still not good to hear.
* Mychal Kendricks looks the best of any draft pick so far, although the OTAs do allow him to shine since he is an athlete and isn’t dealing with blockers right now. Fingers crossed that he’s the real deal.
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Brian Solomon put up a post on Jeffrey Lurie and the fact he might now be a more active owner.
This is pretty new for us. I got the feeling Lurie was hands-on back in the first year or two, but we didn’t have the kind of information from that period that we do now. There is no question that Lurie has taken a back seat for the Andy Reid era. Lurie is consulted on big moves and does take part in some key decisions, but wisely lets his guys do their thing without meddling from him.
How much will this change? I’m guessing it won’t change much. Lurie doesn’t want to coach the Eagles. He doesn’t want to run the draft. I’m guessing this will be more about style. Lurie wants things to be done a certain way. He won’t tell Andy who to sign/draft, but will tell him how to act at the press conference.
I think Lurie is smart enough to not mess with the on-field product, but will worry about things where his input can make a difference. It seems to me that one of Lurie’s big strengths has been listening to his people. For 18 years that was largely Joe Banner. Now when Lurie listens, the messengers will be different. That could alter the way he reacts to what he’s told and the way he hears what is being told to him.
If there is a change from this, it could come from Lurie being less of a rubber stamp “yes” to questions and being a more active listener. Is this good or bad? I have no idea. Heck, could be that this is much ado about nothing and business will stay the same.
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Colt Anderson is ahead of schedule, but still might not be ready at the start of Training Camp.
Mike Patterson is still recovering from brain surgery and needs approval from his doctors/specialists before he can go full tilt.
Vinny Curry’s ankle slowed him in June, but won’t be a factor at Lehigh.
No update on Keenan Clayton.
The comment about Jarrett does not bug me, Coleman is just as athletic as Jarrett, so there is no way he is going to pressure him in an environment where only athleticism shows. Where Jarrett can impress is in the film room with his understanding of the defense and with his tackling abilities.
Yes…but remember that this is a nugget from Dave. When he says something like this, it can’t be casually dismissed.
Let’s hope Jarrett shines at Lehigh and ends any negative talk.
I don’t take Spuds’ comments at face value. I’m not saying he’s dishonest, but he is a representative of the organization. He likes to pump up the fans, for one thing. In this case, someone in the organization may be delivering a public challenge to Jarrett.
That could be true.
He could also be trying to pump up Coleman so much that the fanbase forgets that they totally reached and whiffed for Jarrett. They want to make him an afterthought.
I was willing to give Howie more time with his drafts, but its pretty obvious that he needed some work (Teo-Nesheim was a bust and its looking like Jarrett is too). He killed it this last draft though, so maybe it was more of Andy Reid having larger input or a better staff or Howie just managing to step it up. Either way, I’m keeping my fingers crossed that this draft class pans out. Kendricks looks solid but we’ll only know for sure when the pads go on.
So you already determine that a player there was drafted last year is already a bust even tho this is his first real offseason and he is player type there shine more in TC and preseason then in shorts?
Also you determined he killed this draft even tho we have havnt seen a single rookie in TC yet? Cox could be the biggest bust ever (God forbid).
Howie’s drafts will look a whole lot better if Nate Allen and Brandon Graham stay healthy and play up to potential.
Teo don’t bother me, you gamble late in the 3rd and he was a much better fit in their old system (where you could have bulked him up to 280 and have him play a conventional LDE role). He’s not explosive enough for Washburn, crap happens.
Jarrett was a bad pick, period, it’s one thing to draft a big physical SS with good instincts, but to draft a 195 lb safety who runs a 4.6 in the 2nd round? Stupid. You can find guys like that in the 6th and 7th rounds. Look at Grimm on TB (too bad about the knee). I think that’s the pick that galls Howie, he said as much when he talked about “reaching.” On the other hand, Coleman is exactly what you’re looking for in a savvy late round safety pick.
I’m intrigued about Marsh as a FS, though if he keeps playing well, he’ll probably stay at CB. He has the size, the speed, and the 30 wonderlic, pair him with Allen and you can forget about safety for a few years. As a former RB, contact won’t faze him. I think they need to find someone to push Coleman, he may be a solid player, but he’ll always be marginal as an athlete.
I think Howie had a killer draft, like Heckert used to do, he traded up cheap, traded down and got his man, and was patient and had Boykin fall into his lap. No guarantee they’ll work out, but drafting is ex ante, you get the best value you can knowing what you know at the time. The one thing I like about Howie as a drafter (and given Heckert did this as well, which may reflect first rate scouting) is they don’t throw away later round picks, they find some real players.
The best moves Howie made was a measured off season, they already had a lot of talent, he just carefully shuffled the deck, Ryans was the perfect fit, more talented than Tulloch, the perfect mentor to a group of athletic young LBs. Dumping Asante was both about promoting DRC but also signing DeSean and McCoy and leaving plenty of financial flexibility this summer (because crap happens). That means AR can make final roster decisions without worrying about a million or two of cap room.
I do wish the Eagles used a slightly different strategy in the third though. Maybe my expectation for a 3rd round pick is too high, but we seem to regularly get more production from our later round picks than our 3rd round picks. Since AR got here, these are our 3rd round picks:
1999 – Doug Brzezinski – G – started first 16 games of his career, then 6 more after that before going to the Panthers and then out of the league by 2004
2000 – No 3rd rounder
2001 – Derrick Burgess – DE – The one that got away. Until Dawk, he was the fans favorite player to cite whenever complaining about the team letting go of a player and being wrong. As an Eagle, he had several injuries that limited him, but he put up double digit sacks two years in a row in Oakland once he left.
2002 – Brian Westbrook – RB – No need to explain his greatness.
2003 – Billy McMullen – WR – Has 2 starts to his name and they came in 2008 for the Seahawks. Most significant impact he had for the Eagles was as trade compensation for Baskett.
2004 – Matt Ware – DB – Was done as an Eagle after 2 seasons. Had 3 starts in his career (1 as an Eagle).
2005 – Ryan Moats – RB – Promising rookie season but he never took the next step. Gone from the Eagles in 2 seasons.
2006 – Chris Gocong – LB – One of our many failed projects at OLB. Started 35 games, for us, so I can’t really say he was a bust, but I also wouldn’t call him a true hit either.
2007 – Stewart Bradley – LB – Our best 3rd round pick since BWest, but only really had one impact year. You can certainly blame injuries on the Bradley pick though.
Tony Hunt – RB – Lasted 2 years in the league.
2008 – Bryan Smith – DE – People had him labeled a bust 30 seconds after he was selected. I guess to be fair, that happens a lot and fans are wrong, but not with Smith.
2009 – No 3rd rounder
2010 – Daniel Te’o-Nesheim – DE – Lasted a year as an Eagle and played in 1 game as a Buc so far.
2011 – Curtis Marsh – DB – Considered a project from the start. Sounds like he will continue to be that at least this year, but it is obviously too early to make any conclusions about him.
2012 – Nick Foles – QB – TBD.
From that list, since BWest, no one has been a true hit in the 3rd round. Granted, Bradley was heading that direction before getting injured, but it just seems to me, you should still be able to get impact players in the 3rd round and we have gone almost a decade without one (not counting Marsh and Foles). I just hope they can find a way to get more production out of their 3rd round picks.
I think teams miss in the 3rd round more then people realize and from your list I would say Westbrook, Burgess, Gocong and Bradley was above from what you can expect from a 3rd round pick.
Right on target.
Haven’t updated my numbers, but where the Eagles usually drafted (after pick #80 in most years) the odds of landing a solid starter are well under 50%.
picks 76-100:
Probowl/Solid starter – 18%
top backup – 16%
So 1 in 3 will start or be a 4th LB, nickel back, etc
45% will be flops who only last a couple years at the end of the roster (i.e. Teo).
The odds of landing a starter really fall off after the first 100 picks (10% or less) and the odds of any contribution fall off after #150.
So picks like Kelce, Coleman, Chaney, Rolle, Cooper are better than people think, after pick #150, only about 26% on average stick on a roster for a few years and contribute at least as backups.
While I think there are good points to the contrary, I would have been happier if we signed Jason Campbell as the backup QB, and then made a small move to draft Sanu in the third round.
But who knows…
To me it seems fair to say that there are two draft grades for the guy who is running the draft… the initial reaction, and the reaction people have 3 years later when you see what the players have developed into.
In a way, the initial reaction may be more telling… 3 years from now some players will be injured, some will be superstars, others starters, serviceable backups, and out of the league.
Position coaches, conditioning coaches, wives/family, friends, the medical staff, and many others will influence how the player develops. The guy who drafted him… not so much.
Part of the reason we fans get excited about the draft is due to the natural human tendency to be intrigued and sucked into random schedule reinforcement. It’s a form of gambling (probably more akin to playing the stock market). Risks are taken, fortunes won and lost.
Roseman worked this last draft like a master. He worked his board and maneuvered the Eagles into some prime draft day real estate.
Those who wish to nit pick over one draft pick (i.e. Foles) also need to be mindful that in that particular instance the trigger may have been pulled by Reid and not Roseman. And I would also encourage the critics to be wary of the fact that there is a reason we fans aren’t invited into the war-room on draft day.
So I’ll say it, and say it loud and clear: I am a fan of how Howie has conducted the draft and free agency. I believe he has done just about all he can to put this team in a position to succeed over the last 2 seasons, and this one looks pretty promising as well.
Great point about the two reactions. I think, intentionally or not, people often blur this difference to support their case.
Yeah, I can see that. Most people are naturally inclined to highlight arguments which support their case and downplay those that offer no support.
Great philosophical saying: There is no such thing as a standpoint from nowhere.
I think, from all the stories about how Jarrett used to be in the vet (for Temple) running into Eagles’ brass, it’s clear they fell in love with him, and with the unpredictable nature of 2011, they didn’t want to miss out on him, so they reached.
He might well turn out to be not much, but to judge a guy for not doing much as a rookie — nevermind the limitations on the past 2 years’ rookies — is significantly premature.
I don’t have the exact quote, but Spads has also mentioned a few times that Cooper is way ahead of McNutt. I don’t know that it is all that surprising considering Cooper has a lot more experience, but it certainly adds to his earlier comment where he mentioned he thinks only one of Cooper or McNutt will make the team.
McNutt definitely needs pads on and contact to show what he can do. Solid athlete, but not great. We got him to be a big, physical WR. That kind of stuff wasn’t on display in OTAs. Lehigh should be a much better setting for him. He did fail to stand out this spring.
I think McNutt and Cooper make the team. Chad Hall will be the odd man out.
Cooper was ranked 4th among non kicker/holders on STs by the Eagles own scoring system. That pretty much guarantees him not only a roster spot, but that he’ll dress on game day – April won’t want to replace him with a rookie.
There’s a good chance they can stash McNutt on the PS unless he has a great exhibition season, in which case they’d probably find a roster spot for him anyway. He’s a 6th rd pick, and fringe WRs are a dime a dozen these days. It’s a lot harder stashing DL, because of the injury rate at that position – at some point in the season someone will come raiding your PS, which is why we paid Thorton a NFL salary on the PS.
Which has a better chance of happening, Reid being more media-friendly at news conferences or Vick sliding?
I’m gonna go with, the NFL moves the Eagles to L.A.
Tommy,
Besides Dixon loosing weight, I am very interested in knowing all the players weight, because I think it’s a great way of seeing how they use the off-season to become better and stronger. Is there ever a time, when the team tells us the correct weight?
I think the weight measurables that are on PE.com is from the time each player was drafted/signed by the team.
If we can’t trust the team to inform us, maybe we could track down the weight numbers ourselves…
So far I’ve got:
J. Maclin: 205
J. Kelce: 305
C. Matthews: 250
M. Kendricks: 247
P. Hunt: 260
B. Graham: 265
S. Havili: 240
If the Kelce number is correct, that is great because I know Mathis correct weight is around 290 on game day.
The weights on PE.com are…loosely accurate. Players can tell a team to adjust them. That’s why you see guys measure 6’1 at the Combine and then 6’3 on NFL stuff. I don’t know if the team asks them or they go and request it. Seems dumb to me. Just list your real size and deal with it.
Once a team has numbers on a guy, they don’t change unless specifically requested. That’s why you see some huge NTs listed at 325. They were that size as rookies and got listed accordingly.
Kelce at 305 I’ve got my suspicions about. He’s got such skinny ankles.
Tommy, just read your Fan-demonium over at PE.com. I dont agree with the Giants needing turmoil, I thin its the opposite. The Giants played great down the stretch once Jacobs and Osi shut there mouths and just played. Also take the 2009 season, the Giants was dominating everybody, Plax shots him self and the team collapsed.
Losing Plax hurt that 2008 team to be sure.
I think there is something to be said for the Giants and chaos/turmoil. I think it has to do with Coughlin. He’s got an odd personality. When things get weird maybe it causes him to back down a bit. The Giants have won 2 Super Bowls, but those weren’t there best teams. There was some weird dynamic with each team that came about during the season. And neither season went anything close to smoothly.
The years when the Giants started hot and things seemed smooth, they completely fell apart.
I might be wrong in my conclusion, but there is something going on there.
I really want to like DeSean Jackson. I loved him before the draft when I saw clips of him working out with Jerry Rice. I know I’ve said this before, but my concern is that he has the personality type where he needs someone in his life who is a role-model and can keep him focused on what’s important. I believe that person was his dad. Will DeSean find someone to take on that role? This news of him hanging with “rap wannabe buddies” sure doesn’t make it sound promising.
Here’s to hoping that I’m wrong.
How is that news? Jackson have already been a part of rap video (So has McCoy but nobody is writing any stories about that).
I think that Reid functions as a pseudo father figure for Deseasn.
I certainly hope that Reid is a father figure to DeSean, but I doubt that extends much outside of the locker room. Often people who are gifted in a way that puts them in front of others (actors, musicians, athletes) are like a really sweet kite. Able to fly to amazing heights, but without someone to keep the kite grounded and stabilized it will come crashing down.
Maybe DeSean doesn’t have that kind of personality, but I believe it explains his erratic behavior on the field better than contract negotiations. But that’s just my opinion, obviously I don’t know him personally.
I would feel better if he spent his off season time chillin with guys like Brian Rolle or Jamar Chaney based on their twittery stuff.
McCoy isn’t trying to run a rap label. Big difference.
If DeSean worked minimum wage at McDonalds, i couldn’t care less how much he was involved in a rap label, but were paying him top dollar as a footballplayer. I think its fair to expect that he considers that his only job.
Worked so well with Andy’s actual sons.
This is where I am really hoping that Vick can explain something about your friends from back home. There are some people that you really need to drop out of your life, and now that you are absurdly rich, you have to be very very careful of who is included. These guys may act like you have to keep them around to stay “real” and true to yourself, but they have nothing to lose.
Good point, and hopefully that angle can work in DeSean’s favor.
Just found out that Jason Kelce was a walk-on at University of Cincinnati. It is crazy that he has come this far.
That’s the beauty of football. You go look at a list of top rercuits and you won’t recognize half the names. Then you have guys like Kelce that come from nowhere.
Basketball is so different. The HS stars dominate in college, if they go. They get drafted high. Not all top recruits become stars, but most stars were top recruits.
Effort only means so much in basketball. It can be a huge part of a football career.
Just to throw some interesting perspective out there on Jackson: I’ve met one of his “buddies” and I don’t think he’s coming from the kind of background you think he is. Jackson went to Long Beach Poly, which is pretty much a breeding ground for athletes. It’s not really for what we’d normally consider “privileged” kids, but you’re not going to play there unless you’re a superstar. They have a big reputation for that, and they take it seriously. This isn’t some inner city school, either, it’s a powerhouse athletic and academic program. Some graduates: Willie McGinest, Milton Bradley, Billy Jean King, Winston Justice (!), Chase Utley (!!). You get the picture.
The friend of his I met was also a star athlete, or at least had been. I believe he was a baseball player, but things just didn’t work out. Nice guy, quiet guy. Drives a Harley now (I met him doing a commercial for Harley). Stays in touch with Jackson quite a bit. Told me “that’s my boy!” but not in a rah rah way; more like a quiet, proud smile kind of way.
My point is this: I don’t know Jackson, and I don’t know who all his friends are. But based on the one I met, it’s a bunch of guys who are probably having fun with rap. Who (mostly) used to be great athletes. If Jackson wants to invest in the “rap game” (Goulet!), fine, so long as it doesn’t distract from his primary job. But I’m not nearly as worried about him and “his boys” as I would be with some other players.
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Now get busy stalking Megan Fox for me.
Oh, don’t worry, I’m on it as we speak. You wouldn’t believe how dirty she keeps these shrubberies in front of her house.
Bless you, my son.
Hey Tommy,
One questionI had in reference to DRC seeing a lot of balls come his way this season…
I don’t have the games taped like you but did DRC see a lot of throws go his side when he started the last couple games last season? If so how did he handle it?
He wasn’t exactly facing great QBs so those games aren’t all that relevant, unfortunately.
I’ll take a look back over my notes and see if I wrote anything on the topic.
didn’t DRC shut down Dez Bryant most of the time in the first cowboys game last year?