Trade Winds Blowing?
Posted: August 30th, 2012 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 36 Comments »Former Eagles scout Daniel Jeremiah posted an interesting Tweet late last night.
https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/241057095980548096
Interesting. The Eagles have an elite starter in Shady McCoy. After him they have 3 interesting backups. Bryce Brown I think is the one untouchable backup. He’s shown big time ability this summer. The only way you move him is if someone blows you away with a great offer (3rd round pick). That’s not going to happen. He’s got too wacky of a background for someone to overpay like that.
Could Dion Lewis or Chris Polk be of interest? You bet. Some teams might want a small, elusive, quick RB. Others might prefer the 220-pounder that can push the pile. The Eagles won’t get anything great for either player so don’t get carried away.
The question for the Eagles is if they would be willing to trade Dion Lewis. That would leave Brown and Polk as the backups. Interesting idea, but risky as well. Lewis is the best blocker of the trio. He’s also the only guy with NFL experience.
If the Eagles truly believe they have Super Bowl potential, do you risk going with Brown and Polk as the backup RBs? There is no right or wrong answer. I thought the Eagles were a bit crazy for going with Lewis as the primary backup, but he’s been terrific this summer. Brown has very good potential. Polk is a polished RB, as we saw in the CLE game when he stayed inbounds late in the game.
I’ve recently been thinking about whether the Eagles could have Brown active for games. I think he’s a guy you want on the field, even for just a play or two. Moving Lewis would get him on the field more. And he would be a natural complement to Shady. Brown is big. Shady is smaller. Brown is more N-S. Shady is more elusive. And so on.
I’m sure teams are talking to the Eagles about the 3 backups. I just don’t know if anyone will make a good enough offer or if the Eagles are willing to trade Lewis and go with the rookies behind Shady.
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Jeremiah also Tweeted this:
https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/241044815234605056
That made me wonder if the Eagles could get anything for one of the CBs on the roster. Nam, DRC, Marsh, and Boykin are set in stone. They’re not going anywhere (other than to New Orleans for the SB and Canton, OH for the HOF of course).
Brandon Hughes, Trevard Lindley, and Joselio Hanson are fighting for 1 or 2 spots. Could they be of interest to other teams? I know teams had a shot at Lindley and Hanson last year and no one showed interest. Both guys played well this summer. Lindley is playing the best of his young career and I think is pushing for a roster spot. He has good size. He runs okay. He could help somone.
Hughes is a jack of all trades. He is good on STs. He is fast enough for outside, quick enough for the slot and can cover pretty well at either spot. The problem is that he’s a backup or role player and not a starter. You could try him as a starter, but I don’t necessarily see that kind of upside.
Hanson could be valuable to a team that has no slot CB. That’s it. You’d be just as good with me on the outside as him. Love Hanson for what he’s done with his career, but he lacks the size and speed to play outside.
The Eagles would be hoping for a conditional pick (probably 7th rounder) for these guys and that’s it, but it is better than just cutting them and getting nothing.
At this point, we don’t know which 5 or 6 CBs are going to make it. You can bet the Eagles are talking to teams and seeing if they can get anything for one of these guys. Probably unlikely, but possible.
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Darryl Tapp is definitely available. His price tag is slightly higher than a 6 or 7. While Tapp isn’t a full time starter, he is a valuable backup DE and terrific team guy. He is the kind of hard working veteran you want on the team. A team like Tampa that has young DL on the roster would be wise to bring Tapp in. Good rotational DE and the kind of presence you want in the locker room and on the practice field. I’ve heard nothing about the Bucs. Just an example.
In a fantasy world, the Eagles would love a 4th. Reality says maybe they get a 5th for him. I’d do it. We’re deep. The pick can be of value next April.
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I hope the Eagles are shopping Antonio Dixon. The guy can play…just not in Washburn’s system. We need a DT in return. Ideally, we’d get someone with a 6-2, 315 type of build who could play NT in the W-9.
I’ve not heard a word about Dixon from anyone, but the game tape isn’t good. He needs to play 2-gap. He’s just not made for attacking upfield.
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GAME PREVIEW
The Jets game is the PS finale. Might be meaningless to some fans/media, but it is critical to a few young careers.
There is one battle royale…Phillip Thomas vs Jaiquawn Jarrett. Thomas is the UDFA, JaiJar the 2nd round pick. Thomas has off-field issues in his past. JaiJar is clean as a whistle. Thomas is a rookie. JaiJar has NFL experience.
You’d love JaiJar to win this battle and then put Thomas on the PS, but I’m not betting that happens. Thomas played really well vs CLE. I think another strong game from him could be enough to win him the #4 Safety spot and send JaiJar off to the wilderness.
I need to see Thomas make coverage plays and tackle well. No mental mistakes. Needs to show up on STs as well. JaiJar needs to be great on STs. He needs to make some big hits and physical tackles, whether vs the run or pass. He needs to make his presence felt.
* Dennis Kelly – I hope he gets snaps at LT. I want to see him there to get a feel for what he could do if we needed him on the left side in a game.
* Demetress Bell – Can he do anything? Bell was bad vs PIT. Got better vs NE. Was very bad vs CLE. He is fighting to stay on the roster. He needs to show Reid and Mudd that he’s worth keeping around.
* DJ Jones – A good showing from him could help his push for a roster spot.
* Interior OL – We need some backups to emerge. Reynolds, Vallos were good last week. Do that again. We need to see Brandon Washington play a lot to figure out what to do with him.
* Marvin McNutt – Would a great game from him put him on the roster? Is he just PS material?
* Ollie Ogbu – Does he show enough to warrant a spot on the PS? Could he be the 5th DT?
* Monte Taylor – I think a strong showing from him will lock up a PS spot. He’s 6-5, 260 and has good COD ability. That’s the kind of player you want to work with.
* Ryan Rau – I do not think he will push for a roster spot, but he has really gotten my attention. He was very good vs CLE. He went from complete afterthought to a guy who could win a PS spot.
* OJ Atogwe – I’m pretty comfortable with him as the #3 Safety, but it would make me feel better to see him play well.
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Jimmy Bama and I recorded a podcast on our concerns with the 2012 Eagles. There were no major surprises. Good discussion with some rants and oddball references. Jimmy enjoyed my tale of seeing Nick Cole at TC back in 2006.
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Word is, Nick Collins may be cleared to play by his doctors within the next week or two. You think there’s any chance Eagles give him a look if JaiJar and Thomas poop their pants tonight?
Nick wants to be a starter and there are some teams who need starting Safeties. If he’s willing to be a backup or fight for a job, Eagles could have interest. Hadn’t heard about him getting medical clearance.
Not cleared yet. Supposedly expected to meet with doctors this week. Can’t remember who I heard that from (on Twitter).
I wonder if Reid will play one of the backup RB’s more than the others tonight to showcase him to another team.
Good question. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Re: Philip Thomas / Ryan Rau
T-Law’s set the stage for a Thomas v. Jarrett battle. What struck me last week during the Browns game, when both players were on the field, was that Thomas not only seemed so comfortable but that he was — as I remember it — calling coverages and adjustments. Thomas just seems to be playing faster than Jarrett.
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Ryan Rau put on a better show against Cleveland than I remember Matthews delivering at any time against any team. I know Matthews was facing 1st-teamers last year. But this preseason, while bulking up and being in the right place, Mattthews still struggled to shed block. I’m almost believing that Rau has a better upside than Matthews.
IR Matthews, Rau as backup MLB?
Casey only played in the PIT game. Can’t judge too much on a PS opener. Look how much better other guys have gotten since that game.
Rau was quiet for first couple of games. Really came alive last week. Curious if that was an anomaly or him emerging.
Thomas does play faster than JaiJar. The off-field stuff is something that could hurt him. You wonder how well Thomas knows the scheme. In terms of play, he looks better. Intangible stuff will be big for him.
Interesting that you thought Lindley would be cut when they whittled to 75, and now you think he’s playing the best football of his career, and pushing for a roster spot. Did you re-watch games and key in on Lindley, based on what Juan said? If so, it might be interesting to hear about specifically, what you saw that made you turn your opinion around. Despite Castillo’s comments, I think Hughes has been the better player of the two, and more deserving of a roster spot.
Tapp should fetch something in return, a 6th or 7th rounder, I’d guess. The other guys…meh. Probably not.
Do you think the battle will be fair between Jaiquwan and Phillip Thomas? Personally, I think it should be Thomas’ spot to lose. He’s impressed more in 1 game than Jarrett has in several. During his time with the birds, Jarrett’s created worse video tape than Troma Entertainment! His lowlight reel should be accounted for when making the final decision, since he has no real athletic, “upside” to speak of. That being said, I’m guessing Jarrett’s draft position is going to factor in, and Thomas will have to be twice as good to unseat him on the final 53. We’ll see.
I thought Cliff Harris was going to be the guy battling for the last corner spot. I thought Lindley would be the odd man out, not due to his play, but due to numbers. I’ve said good things about Lindley. Just sometimes you see a group of players and you have to start guessing who gets let go.
It sounds like Harris had some issues, off the field. I don’t mean drugs or anything like that. Just sounds like maybe he wasn’t ready for professional football. The NFL is 7 days a week. You don’t show up and play. You must work all day every day and be focused on getting better. You need to be smart, to learn the system and take coaching. You need to listen. You cannot let up after a good showing here or there. Football is a game in HS and college. It is a job in the NFL. I think that stuff got the best of Cliff.
Didn’t know/think that when I kept him over Lindley.
There had to be more to the Cliff Harris story than we’ve heard. On the field, he was a playmaker. Tough to see a kid with potential waste it. I think the Eagles have some vets that have kind of been through the fire “off the field”, and seen the ill effects on an NFL career. If a kid like Harris ignores that kind of peer example to avoid, and continues on with boneheaded decisions, or displaying a poor work ethic, there probably isn’t a great chance he’ll ever get it together.
Let’s not exaggerate Harris’ play in camp, he was clearly behind Lindley and Hughes, he’s got a good break on the ball, but lacks deep speed and is really skinny. Combine that with his inexperience and off season questions, they might bring him back for the PS, but I doubt he ever had a shot at the 53 man roster.
What Tommy said is basically what Roob said on Twitter. Practice issues, studying the playbook, etc.
If the Eagles really felt like it, couldn’t they put Tapp on IR as a pre-caution given the new rules?
There would need to be a legit injury. Can’t just put a guy on IR for nothing. That’s a myth. If you could get Tapp to IR, that would be interesting.
I still don’t believe that Gocong went on IR in 2006 because of his “stinger”. That IMO was a fabrication. That’s clearly a short-term injury. Man I miss Gocong: he’d be perfect for this defense.
isn’t the short term IR designed for a major injury so you can have a player come back in 8 weeks instead of 6 (PUP), it doesn’t change anything regarding Tapp does it? What am I missing here?
It’s hard to imagine a team putting up a draft pick at this time of year unless they think it is likely the guy they are trading for both won’t get cut and is better than all the guys who will be cut. The number of people cut in the next 72 hours will create a free agent pool so large I can’t see a team paying up a draft pick for someone who is likely to fall into it and whom they can pick up without relinquishing a pick. I think teams will play the pool of cuts first and pursue trade 2d.
sometimes it’s better to give up a 7 for the guy you want than battle 30 teams in FA…
Bingo. Especially if you’re at the bottom of the waiver priority and you know the Colts or someone else may need that same player as you.
Words of wisdom.
I think GM’s cultivate relationships with agents to get the agent to steer the player who has that many choices towards them.
That certainly does happen. That’s why confrontational GMs like AJ Smith of SD make no sense to me.
is that really a factor for these circumstances? i’m not 100% sure how the waiver wire works, but i think that each of the 32 teams has a shot at the guy in order. If a low team wants the guy, it doesnt matter what his relationship is with any other team.
once they fully hit FA, then yea, i’d say that does become important.
I’m (predictably) for (the unlikely proposal of) trading DRC and putting Marsh out there. Saying you were in the Pro Bowl doesn’t tackle the guy but it makes a GM look good til the games start. He can helmet to helmet Vick and it won’t hurt, and we can watch DJax and Maclin dance around him.
Monte Simmons Cut….Eagles sign Landon Cohen. Odd you say Tommy you wanted someone in the 6’2 315 mold to play NT in this scheme. Landon is 6’3 300lbs. I know this guy is a LONG shot to make the team, but the fact they brought in another DT, is intriguing. It can’t be very comforting to Dixon when they are bringing in another DT for a tryout, when it looks like Patterson is going to the IR and Dixon all but was on the roster.
Cohen was 280 in college, but that was 5 years ago. I liked him quite a bit when he was at Ohio U. 1-gap DT who could penetrate and be disruptive. Fits the Wide-9. No idea if he’s much of a player anymore.
Dion Lewis isn’t going anywhere and neither is Bryce Brown. Lewis is your primary backup and Polk has an injury history and there are obvious questions about Brown although he’s a great talent. Eagles should consider putting Polk on pup/ IR since it appears Havili will make team and there isn’t a lot of room on roster. Polk is worth more than a future 7th rd pick though I think he could get picked up depending on how teams feel about his shoulder
Once Brown gets established, the Eagles will have a nice option to pound the ball in the 4th Q.
Also all it takes is one injury to change things so where’s the biggest risk…4th RB or 6th DE? Considering all the DEs they’ve brought in and being able to move Cox, Thornton, Jenkins out to end part time, I’m not sure they should keep 11 DL.
Two possible PS candidates I am most worried about losing are Polk and Thomas
Polk isn’t injured so he can’t just be placed on the IR. And he isn’t eligible for the PUP. I also don’t think Lewis or Brown will be traded but I wouldn’t say either is untradeable so it is still possible.
My guess is Polk to the PS.
The scuttle is that Polk would get surgery on his shoulder.
Who knows if this is realistic, but it does present a path to holding on to him for another year.
Trading Tapp for a 5th would be a no-brainer but what if the offers were either a 6th for Tapp or a 4th for Hunt?
Hunt is worth much more and isn’t going anywhere so forget it. A 4TH now is basically a 5th round value. DEs aren’t easy to find either (see Eagles trading up for Graham).
I wouldn’t say he is worth much more. I also disagree with the notion that a 4th is virtually the same as a 5th. Nevertheless, I don’t think Hunt will be traded either but I imagine these hypotheticals do come up every once in awhile and curious to other takes.
He is worth way more to the Eagles and he looks ready to go. Only 465K in 2012 and 2013 and he’s perfectly fine as the 3rd or 4th DE right now. Tapp’s contract is up. Hunt is a few years younger.
Future draft picks are valued about a round lower than the pick is valued right now because you aren’t getting the benefit of a year of play and you can trade him after the season IF needed.
I find the last pre-season game exciting. Many of the guys on the field are playing for their professional lives. Perform well, and you’ve won the money, prestige, and maybe a career in the NFL. Fail to perform, you’re just another guy who now needs to find a job. These young men have been playing since they were kids, most at least through high school and college. They’ve invested a lot of themselves in becoming football palyers and, now, there’s a lot on the line.
I think Brown has shown a lot of potential as a runner, but I would definitely not want him being the backup running back to McCoy just yet. If he ends up as the backup, McCoy would end up staying on the field way to long. From everything I read, Brown still has a lot to learn when it comes to pass blocking and is also still developing as a receiver out of the back field. Ultimately, that would translate to our offense being limited in what we can do while Brown is on the field and eventually, defenses will be able to scheme against that. To me, Lewis is clearly he better primary backup to McCoy, at least for the short term. Once Brown develops, I think he very possibly could grow into that role, but I don’t think he is there yet.