The Pusher
Posted: June 7th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 58 Comments »Good football coaches can be awful, awful people. They take players and push them to their limits, mentally, physically and emotionally. Upon finding these limits, the coaches push some more. By pushing players in such a way, the coaches get the players out of their comfort zone and truly challenge them to do amazing things.
The military does some of this. Medical training as well. Parenthood may be the ultimate challenge of just what a person can deal with.
You don’t know just how much you can do until you’ve been pushed to significant extremes. Find your limits and break them.
Chip Kelly needed to make the Eagles uncomfortable. Things had grown stale under Andy Reid. This is no insult to Andy. That just happens when a coach stays in one place for a long time. Andy did a great job of getting the Eagles out of their comfort zone when he was hired in 1999. The new guy comes in and pushes the players to see who they are and what they can do.
There are plenty of differences between Reid and Kelly, but a major one is the QB situation they had to deal with. Reid inherited Koy Detmer. Reid then signed Doug Pederson to come here and help install his system. Reid drafted Donovan McNabb to be the QB of the future. There was a clear delineation of duties. Pederson was there to teach. McNabb was there to learn. Detmer was there to play when needed.
Kelly inherited more talent, but a much less clear situation. Michael Vick can be a starting QB. So can Nick Foles. Matt Barkley appears to be behind them, but the hope is that he can be a starting QB in the future. There is no perfect plan here. This is an open competition. Kelly has 3 guys fighting for the QB job.
Competition is a great thing, but QB is a strange position. All QBs have a bit of prima donna to them. It is the glamour position. The QB gets the hot cheerleader, not the RG. The QB is on ESPN, not the DT. The QB gets paid the most. He gets to wear a red jersey in Training Camp, warning players not to hit him.
Not all QBs are going to respond well to being thrown into a competition. This just isn’t something they’re used to. Clearly the situation is starting to bother Michael Vick. His comments yesterday show that.
Before we make too much of this and start ripping on Vick, realize that Kelly is probably okay with it. He now knows that Vick is out of his comfort zone. That’s actually a positive sign. The bigger problem would be if Vick was delusional and didn’t get the situation. Vick may have been slow to acknowledge the competition earlier, but he now fully understands that he’s not guaranteed anything, let alone that he’ll be the starter.
Good.
Vick’s biggest enemy over the years has been the man in the mirror. Vick has needed to be pushed. Reid did that in 2009 and 2010. Vick had the best year of his career in 2010.
Vick does have a good work ethic now. His issues aren’t a simple question of effort. That’s the old Vick. The question now is one of what is good enough. Think about this incredible quote from Vince Lombardi:
“Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it. But along the way, we shall catch excellence.”
Vick’s greatness lies in his natural ability, not his honed skills or execution of the offense. Vick has been comfortable with this. He believes in his ability and trusts that he can make plays. Reid didn’t want this, but settled for it. Kelly will not. Vick has to do things his way or he won’t get the job.
The first step in Vick doing things Kelly’s way is to understand he must do things Kelly’s way, as odd as that sounds. I think Kelly got Vick’s attention in the OTAs and minicamps. Vick isn’t going to get the job because of the great plays he’s made in the past. He has to earn the job based on what he does now, and that means running Kelly’s offense the way Kelly wants it run.
This is new to Vick. He’s had coaches kissing his butt for years and years. Reid did some good things with him initially, but didn’t keep pushing Vick. Now Vick finds himself truly competing for a job. Handling that is easier said than done.
Some of you have wondered if Vick is trying to send a message to Kelly with his comments about wanting a starter in place by the time Training Camp starts. I don’t think so. I think Vick is just frustrated with the situation and answering questions about it. He hasn’t had to go through this before and it is affecting him.
Vick hasn’t had a character issue in the last 4 years. He is truly a changed man. I would be highly surprised if he suddenly tried to go rebellious against Kelly. That wouldn’t help him in regard to winning the job and Vick doesn’t have a lot of other choices. His best option is to win the Eagles QB job.
Even in his 30’s, Vick is more physically gifted than Foles or Barkley can ever dream of. Vick has said the right things, in regard to the QB position. He’s talked about how accuracy and decision-making are more important than arm strength. Just because he says the words doesn’t mean he believes them. If Vick is going to win the QB job, he must start putting actions behind those words.
The sky is the limit if that ever happens.
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Kelly is pushing the whole team, not just the QBs. DeSean Jackson had a talk with Kelly recently after playing with the 2nd and 3rd teams. That had Jackson concerned. I don’t know if Kelly was sending a direct message or not. I tend to think he’s letting his assistants do this kind of stuff. Still, the coaches got Jackson’s attention.
Other players have been shuffled up and down the non-existent depth chart. This is not punishment. This is a wake-up call that what you did last year or in 2010 or 2008 is irrelevant. Kelly and the staff want the best players for 2013.
Kelly is also trying to reward younger or new players. There is no pecking order here. The best man will get the job, whether he’s a rookie or seasoned veteran.
Kelly has said time and again that he doesn’t expect perfection. He knows there will be mistakes in the practices. He wants players to learn and improve. Kelly is realistic with his expectations. This isn’t Mike Shanahan holding every QB to the John Elway standard and then going nuts if they don’t match it (ask Jake Plummer).
What Kelly isn’t going to tolerate is players that settle for less. Oregon wasn’t the land of 5-star recruits, but Kelly and the staff developed plenty of guys into being star players.
The Eagles have had plenty of talent in recent years. The results were that of a team that did settle for less.
No more.
Kelly is going to push and push.
In order to find out about players, you need to get them out of their comfort zone. See who responds the right way. Those are the guys you want to keep around. Other players are going to be exposed as simply not being the right types to play for him. That’s okay, too. Not all matches were made in heaven.
It is way too early to come to any conclusions. The Eagles have had a bunch of non-contact practices. As Kelly will tell you, that’s not football. This is just a warm-up exercise. Football begins in July. That’s when players hit and the pressure goes up several notches. We’ll really find out who belongs and who doesn’t.
Kelly can be a nice guy for the next 6 weeks. Then he has to go back to being the pushy jerk so that he can get the best out of his players, and start winning us some games.
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Even if Vick does it Kelly’s way during camp and wins the starting job, he’ll revert to his old ways once the games begin. What we saw the last couple of years was the same Vick that was the QB in Atlanta.
That’s not fair. This is the first time Vick has really been pushed by a coach. Those changes could take root.
What you say is possible, but can’t assume that.
Is there a precedent for a 33yr old QB drastically changing his stripes that late in his career? Not trying to be sarcastic, its actually a serious question
Randell Cunningham,
good one!! He did change his game late for the Vikings
Exactly
He never learned to slide or run out of bounds without taking a hit, and he never learned to hold on to the ball tight so he doesn’t fumble. Reid and Vick made these simple things a priority for the past 2 years – and look where it got us. Reid was fired and Vick may be unemployed soon.
And…didn’t Jimmy Rollins teach Vick to slide?
No thats not correct. Vick saw a clear improvement when he came to Philly.
ATL: 53.8%, 75.7 QB Rating, 1.36 TD/INT, 4.76 any/a, 23.77 epa
PHI: 60.1%, 87.8 QB Rating, 1.73 TD/INT, 6.81 any/a, 49.68 epa
Sorry, I wasn’t talking about passing numbers, I was referring to him learning simple things like sliding to avoid a hit.
He had a Braves player as far back as Atlanta teach him to slide. He either didn’t pay attention for whatever reason, didn’t practice it or simply has a Zoolander like inability. I mean the last time the guy attempted a slide is when he was concussed. It is frustrating, but you know what? If he just keeps up with the holding style Kelly has shown him and finds it in his heart to go down on contact occasionally, I’m good.
He can teach that holding style to Bryce and Shady while he’s at it!
Thank you! An actual thoughtful reasoned analysis of Vick’s comments. Almost everyone else is just interested in stirring up controversy or trying to self-justify their caricature Mike Vick, life long thug.
the week 1 starter will be determined by whomever wins the job during the offseason.
then, its up to that guy to *keep* his job each week.
i’m not saying one bad game could get a guy to ride the bench for the rest of the season, but i’d hope that the coaching staff will be reviewing things on a weekly basis, not just picking a guy to start the season and leaving it at that.
Chip will give the QB some freedom, but the player will need to be consistent. Multiple bad games in a row will be an issue.
Agreed, accountability will be much higher than its been around here in a long time, and most players leashes will be much shorter than it was with Andy in charge..but Im not expecting irrational decisions either. Chip is a fair coach, and I expect him to have the proper pulse of the team and its players..
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IMO I dontt hink there is any chance a starter is named before both Foles and Vick each get to start a preseason game
Multiple bad games should be the key phrase there. Vick might have a bit of a shorter leash being the short term answer if he wins the job, with multiple talented youths behind him. If one of the young guys wins the job I would hope that leash would be a ton longer.
Hey Tommy, for some reason I read Vick’s comments and my thoughts snapped write back to your article from a few months ago –
“The Importance of Struggle” –
http://igglesblitz.com/2013/03/the-importance-of-struggle/
Vick has been the presumed starter for so much of his QB career. I don’t think he knows what to make of an actual QB competition.
Next week’s article will cover how this can be a good thing for Vick. But you’re exactly right. He needs this. Struggle can benefit him if he handles it the right way.
ok, but that begs the question, what if Vick doesnt handle it well? or, doesnt handle it well and is still named starter? part that i think gets lost is, the players know who’s better. we’ve all been on teams, you know. can kelly over-play this qb competition hand? i’m all for it, but my assumption is it’s an actual competition.
“The QB gets the hot cheerleader….”
And the long snappers, of course.
(I figured this was a pretty obvious comment, but why pass up the chance to include a visual? Any other good counter-examples?)
A_T_G:
There’s just way too much to discuss embedded in your comment.
Perhaps T-law will do a post during the coming dog-days about this topic.
Or not.
As eloquent as T-law is . . . some pictures do speak louder and better than words.
What is your obsession with that woman? Aside from her face and body, she’s only moderately attractive.
Jon Dorenbos is a great man *wipes a tear from his eye*.
Magic….. Damnit! If I only knew! Now my youth is wasted.
Re: Vick v.2010
T-Law:
I think that, although AR may not have been pushing Vick in the 2010 TC, Vick was pushing himself. He was back in shape. Every day he could see how he compared to Kolb. (So could AR and MM, too!)
Then, a couple weeks after KK’s concussion on opening day, AR gave Vick the starting job.
Vick went on a tear. But as the season went on, I think the quality of his performance went down. There was a point at which he had something like 15 TDs and 0 INTs — but that he’d gotten lucky with a number of drops by DBs.
Then came the Vikings game. And as much as the play-calling and “hot” receivers may have been at fault, ultimately, Vick was responsible for not just not seeing the same blitz over and over.
His 2010 season was special for awhile. Until now, I thought he had magic dust and used it all up in the first 14 games.
Now I wonder if, as the 2010 progressed, Vick’s hunger to be the starter diminished. Especially after that MNF game against the ‘Skins.
His bad habits slowly returned. And by then AR had not just committed to Vick. But reached — I think — the conclusion that he’d erred in judging Kolb the franchise’s future.
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To be clear, I’m totally on board with what you postulate in your post. As to every word . . . especially Lombardi’s “catch excellence” comment.
There are players from other eras who could be great today. Dick Butkus. Jim Brown. Deacon Jones and Merlin Olsen. Bill Bergey. Marion Mottley and Otto Graham.
I think the same is true of Lombardi. In fact I have no doubt.
Lombardi was — as he’d be the first to say — just a teacher, first and foremost.
Chip Kelly’s success will depend on how good a teacher he is. Pushing your students is great start.
Teams did start to figure out Vick in 2010. The Giants actually gave him real problems. The Vikings were able to come up with the best plan and executed it very well.
This is where Vick needed to be able to up his game, but couldn’t. He was relying on talent. In the NFL, that only gets you so far. Execution is what makes players and teams truly great.
I have NEVER seen a CB dominate a QB the way Antione Wynnfield did to Vick. That was an incredible defensive performance that im certain I will never forget
I’ve always thought this sentiment was wrong. Teams started to figure out Reid, not Vick. There is a standard play when you have delayed DB blitzes. Run the Ball, Andy.
It is up to the QB to read the blitz and get the ball out quickly. Vick always looked surprised that the slot guy was coming after him. The first few times I could understand, but not after that.
I do agree that Andy didn’t adjust well at all, but Vick still could have handled the situation better.
This thing didn’t begin and end with Vick, though. Delayed blitzed were dialed up against Brees and Rodgers as well, with some success. It was a general strategy against teams trying for deeper passes all the time. There is a reason you saw urgency from the Packers org in having a credible rushing attack now in the way it wasn’t before, in 2010 and 2011.
The worst part is that he was still surprised a few weeks later at GB. We still gave them their toughest match in the post season though. I was so confident if we could just get through GB! Man 2010 was a fun fun year.
I can remember the early games of that season when things were going great – Vick was saying he wasn’t all the way back to his former self yet. I’ve always wondered since whether part of the reason things fell apart for him later is that he eventually felt like he WAS all way back. That he felt like he could go back to doing some of the things he’d always done.
From the CSN article link… Vick has this quote…
“Why not? Who cares?” he said. “Y’all [in the media] kill me anyway, whether it’s right or wrong.”
I don’t like him implying he is the victim. This is not good. Sounding like Sergio Garcia and McNabb is not going to go over very well.
The Indiana Pacers’ Center Roy Hibbert made a similar comment last week during the East Finals against the Heat.
I wonder if this kind of “the Media is Ill-Informed” attitude among athletes will become more common.
i definitely see it as a “F-You” response to the media.
and to be honest, i kind of agree with him.
This is a very plausible, and well thought out interpretation and I dont really disagree with any of it. However:
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1)Asked by Mosher if Tension could arise between him and Foles? “Yeah, but hopefully we will have an answer before then, so Im not going to answer it”…
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Im sorry but I have a huge problem with that!
THE ONLY acceptable answer to that question is “ABSOLUTELY NOT! Nick is my brother, the best man will win and the backup will support them and root them on”. Nick will be heartbroken if he loses the job, but he will be a team first professional about it and root his teamates on, and help Vick in any way he can..Yet Vick might feel annimosity towards Nick if it doesnt go Vicks way?
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2) I have no problem with him wanting to know who the starting QB is. I have a problem with WHY he wants to know. He transparantly wants to know before camp, so that he can ask for his release if he isnt the starter, in time to latch on to another team and try to win their Job..
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And from a stand point of Human Nature, I understand him. but from a fans stand point I want NOTHING to do with him for two reasons:
A) He has been a starting QB too long, and He has been in this city too long, to NOT KNOW what a leader can and will say publicly.
B) We are trying to build something the correct way. High Charecter, Team guys, who all buy in. Guys who will sacrafice to be Eagles. I dont care who you are, if not being named the “starter” makes you NOT want to be an Eagle, then F OFF!!!
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3)Mosher almost couldnt believe what he was hearing, gave Vick a chance to ammend it, and Vick Puffed his chest out and Deffiantly told Geoff to “Print It”
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We have a college coach, drastically changing everything, trying to get a group of men to buy into his new way of doing things, and we have our veteran QB, who likes to fancy himself as our Leader, publically challenging the way our new coach handles his business? I dont like it at all, and even an immature Brat like Desean handled it better then this Dope.
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The moment Chip was hired, I thought Foles would be ready to wipe the floor with Vick by the time camp rolled around. To this day, I have never seen a point in a limited 33yr old QB, who wont ever stay healthy, and has a 0.00000001 chance of ever winning a SB to take developmental time away from our young QBs. At BEST its time we could be using as seasoning for our young franchise QB of the future. AT WORST, its game time we could be using to find out for sure that we dont have a franchise QB of our future on our roster, so we know for sure that we need to invest a 1st or 2nd round pick in the 2014 draft on a QB. So after, NEVER seeing any reason for bringing Vick back, and starting him in 2013, what am I supposed to think when I see him acting like a mental midget that cant handle the pressure and is publically deffiant towards our new coach? I just cant see a good reason as to why Vick is here.
i agree with you on most of your points. but i think if the team decides to go the route of outright releasing Vick, they have to be careful in how they do so. regardless of what we all think, it seems that Vick is *very* well liked in the lockerroom. if the team were to unceremoniously kick him off the team, i’d imagine there’d be at least a little bit of backlash from it. maybe not a bunch of players handing in their jersey’s like in Rudy, but i think some players might not be too keen on the coaching staff after that.
it certainly isn’t the way a team looking to build a High Character team would do it, IMO.
i think the team is doing this the right way. make it a competition. make the entire team, from top to bottom, *see* who the winner is. then, if player X doesn’t make the team or has to play backup, what are the others going to think? “well he’s a nice guy, but we’re moving on to something better now.”
a better way to ‘punish’ vick for his comments is the same that we have seen from other players – take away their practice reps until they figure it out.
you do make a very valuable point!
Tension — This existed between Montana and Young. Jaws wasn’t happy with how Buddy used Randall. Roger Staubach and Craig Morton hated their QB battle and use in 1970-71. Let’s not act as if Vick is saying something crazy here. QBs want to play. Vick is nearing the end of his career. Of course he’ll be frustrated if he’s not the starter. Doesn’t mean he’ll hate Foles or be a jerk to him.
Knowing — How do you know Vick will want to get cut? Vick is due $3.5M more if he makes the roster. Will he get that much on the open market in August? I’m not so sure. Vick wants to know who the starter is because he’s assuming it will be him and he’s tired of the competition. That’s how I read it.
On the record — I’ve wondered about that situation. Would things have looked better if Vick said he didn’t think it was on the record? Then it might have looked as if he was 2-faced, saying one thing with the mic off and another when tape was rolling.
Vick was frustrated. The guy has done the right thing for 4 years. Don’t be so quick to think the worst of him after one day’s comments.
All Fair points, which is what I come to expect from you anyway..But You gotta understand my bias. I think the man has been a CLASS ACT since he has been here, and Im proud of how he has handled and carried himself..but I never saw a single reason for why he should be our starter, and I still Mantain that he should be head and shoulders better than our youngbucks, if he will take developmental game time away from them…Franchise QBs like Tony Romo dont interest me…A Superbowl caliber winning QB is the only thing that matters. If we already know that Vick ISNT that(sure there is a chance, but come on), then how could I want to see him win the job over someone who even if its just due to age, I dont yet know that he cant develope into a SB winner?
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Maybe if Mike didnt always use the 1st year in a new offense excuse for his bad play, I would have a little more faith…then again, No one will ever convince me that he is even remotely capable at this point in time of ever staying healthy for 16 plus games, and then another 3-4 games to win a superbowl. So when I see some Talented but Unknown players on our bench, Vick to me is simply not good enough to make me want to find out about our Unknown..just my humble oppinion
“He is a COWARD because he is TIRED!!! Don’t be TIRED!”
so true on Jaws. you hear him still today with a bit of anger when he talks about coaches being undecided or rotating qbs. his wildcat rants took me back to my early teens when RC was being brought in on 3rd down.
I agree on the big point – it would be bad for a rebuilding organization if they had to go to a declining QB over giving a young guy the experience. I’ve always thought that it’s how Foles (or maybe Barkley) plays that will determine what happens with Vick (and to some extent, Barkley). If Chip decides that he can win with Foles (or Barkley), and that Foles (or Barkley) is ready. it almost doesn’t matter how well Vick plays. There would be no reason to use Vick and postpone going to Chip’s guy.
But I still think the Eagles are still in a similar situation to where they were when they decided to keep Vick. If they cut Vick today, and Nick Foles tears his ACL on the first snap of training camp, it’s Barkley and Dixon. If they cut him today, it will cost the team the same amount of money as it would cost to cut him on 9/1.
I do have a hard time seeing Vick staying as the #2, but I think unless he really becomes a headache, he’s here through pre-season.
I think if the other guys disappoint or Chip feels they aren’t ready, AND Vick shows he can run Chip’s offense, he’ll stay and fill the Doug Peterson role.
As far as him having animosity towards Foles I don’t see how he could possibly not. Just keep it on the level. I found myself in very similar situations in sports and always had a nice little ball of animosity built up for the other guy. He is the competition at that point. As long as at the end of the day he also helps Foles to be the best player he can be, that’s all that matters.
Where I take issue is the pining for Kelly to name a starter. Embrace the challenge don’t shrink away from it and remove yourself before it even starts!
Vick may not even make this roster Lawlor,is more trade bait than anything if he does.Vick is a gunshy turnover machine,who demoralizes both his offense and his defense with his inept play,the talk you reference that Jackson had with Coach Kelly,the one Kelly doesn’t recall,only goes to the very point that is this,Kelly wants football players not personalitys,not names,not 5 star recruits..the only push Vick will get will be out the door if he doesn’t learn how Chip Kelly operates
My favorite coaches over my life have been the ones who kept pushing me until I wanted to just go home… and then he pushed us even more. He would yell and scream and get red in the face but not in an angry way, but in a “you’re going to do this and I dare you to defy me by quitting on yourself” kind of way. Wrestling, Medical School, 2-a-days in August heat; all of these suck…a lot, but I feel that without the insane challenges they represent, I would never truly know how strong my mind/body really is
Exactly.
Most people can only push themselves so hard. When someone else does it, you keep going and do amazing things. Or break down. But at least you know just what your true limits are at that point.
I know the feeling. When Im working out alone, he will hardly push my self (working on actually pushing my self), but when I got a friend, I can push my self, but will often push my self to hard.
It’s not actually a good idea to have a QB competition that lasts for a very long time. Many of these so-called competitions aren’t that, just shows, and they waste a lot of reps.
Ultimately, Chip has to install his system, and his quarterbacks have to know it. It’s already likely going to be error-prone at the start of the year even with an established QB. So when Chip was saying he’ll take his time, I think he means that it’s May, y’all.
But… It’s June.
quote was in May.
You ideally have a #1 QB, but you can’t just give that role to someone. Kelly is smart to make the player compete.
I don’t think he’ll hold the decision until the last minute. He’s saying that because it gets the press to quit asking him, but I think Kelly knows the team needs the QB in place by the 3rd preseason game. Would be even better if done by the 2nd PS game.
We’ll see.
Don’t forget that all of these QBs are going to get a ton of reps no matter what team they are running with.
It’s not just about the QBs, you know. Vick’s lefthanded. Fole’s righthanded. The OL has to get instinctual, and so do the RBs. The unit gotta gel.
A QB competition like Seattle last summer is easier when the offense already has been installed, and all you want is someone better than TJack. You can afford to wait a long time, because the *only* one not up to speed was the QB, and after about 6 games, he was pretty good to go.
you stole the lombardi quote from the 4 letter networks special on top coaches. the finale was a special on lombardi. come clean ya bastid :P.
I had read it before then…
but yeah, I did see that last night. Guilty.