Some Roster Talk

Posted: August 23rd, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 128 Comments »

The Eagles made a trade earlier today, acquiring OLB Adrian Robinson from the Steelers. There will be quite a few moves coming in the next couple of weeks. Most will be cuts, but there could be a couple of signings and maybe another trade or two.

Don’t expect big moves. They just don’t happen at this time of the year. Right now we’re talking about roster tweaks, not foundation moves.

There is one big move that’s possible. Safety Jairus Byrd might be on the trade market. We don’t know anything for sure. The Bills aren’t actively shopping him. Byrd hasn’t come out and publicly demanded a trade. The question is whether the Bills want to to spend big money on him. They obviously don’t want to give him as much as Byrd is asking for right now. The sides might be able to work something out, but both have to move off their current stance.

There was recent speculation that the Bills might not want draft picks, since teams aren’t likely to give up a 1st or 2nd rounder for a Safety. I can’t say I understand this. Safety is becoming more and more of a critical position. I would think there would be some teams eager to give up a good pick for Byrd. Maybe I’m wrong on the market for Byrd due to the fact you have to give up a pick and a big deal.

The theory was that Buffalo would ask for players instead. The obvious thing to say is send Nate Allen to the Bills. They also don’t have a great LG situation. Send them Danny Watkins as well. Add in a mid-round pick. Problem is that the Bills have to want what you offer. They may have no interest in Allen or Watkins. You have to give something to get something.

I’m sure Howie Roseman has called Buffalo to talk about player moves. And you can bet he was feeling out whether Byrd is available and just what the price is.

I do not see a Byrd trade involving the Eagles as likely. I think a team that is a bit more desperate could make a better offer. You’ve got some desperate coaches and GMs out there. Those guys might be willing to mortgage the future since they don’t know they’ll be there to deal with the repercussions.

* * * * *

Jeff McLane wrote an interesting piece on Howie and how the Eagles intentionally built up the offense, despite knowing that was already the strength of the team.

“When we went back and studied the teams who’ve won, they have a strength,” Roseman said. “They’re not just in the middle on both sides of the ball. And when we looked at our offense and looked at where we had players rated in the draft, we saw that there was an opportunity to really strengthen positions there that we thought could really help us be successful on offense.”

Some of you will like this. Some won’t. I’m just interested in the thinking.

Howie does like to study successful teams and to try and see how they were built. Is there a pattern that can be copied?

I have no problem with trying to build up the offense. Today’s NFL is all about offense. You must be able to score points. Don’t make this out to be “ignore the defense”. You must play effective defense to be a good team. But if you can’t score, you’re going to struggle to win, especially in the postseason. Out of the last 11 Super Bowls, only 3 teams have scored fewer than 24 points to win the game.

The Eagles aren’t ignoring the defense. The 2012 draft netted Fletcher Cox, Mychal Kendricks, Vinny Curry and Brandon Boykin. This offseason the Eagles signed Connor Barwin, Isaac Sopoaga and 3 new starters for the secondary.

Most people expect the Eagles best chance at being competitive this year to hinge on the offense’s ability to win some shootouts. The offense has good starters and good depth. That side of the ball should be solid, barring some epic disasters. The defense still needs work. It may take a couple of years to fix that side of the ball. And the defense may never catch up to the offense. In today’s NFL, that might be okay.

* * * * *

A reader asked whether the Eagles could look to deal Trent Cole  and/or Brandon Graham. Cole costs more to trade than to keep. That complicates things. Also, the Eagles do value him as a leader and good locker room presence. The other consideration is that I don’t think the Eagles would get much in return.

The reader wondered about dealing Graham to Dallas for Anthony Spencer. Graham is a DE moving to LB. Spencer is a LB moving to DE. Could the teams help each other out? Not likely. Spencer is coming off his best year. He had 11 sacks, 2 FFs and 7 TFLs. In his career, Graham has 8.5 sacks, 4 FFs and 4 TFLs. The Eagles could sweeten the pot with picks, but the NFL isn’t a trading league.

I don’t know what the Eagles think of Graham. Some of you think the coaches are idiots for not starting him. Some of you think there is some kind of bias there. Graham is a shorter guy and Kelly does like taller players, but that isn’t enough to make a guy a backup.

Just because he’s not starting doesn’t mean the Eagles don’t value Graham. I think they see him as a valuable rusher in the Nickel and Dime units. Graham is a good player. The Eagles are trying to figure out how to use him in the new defense. I do not think they will shop him around, but I do think they would listen to trade offers. Because Graham is a good pass rusher, he would require a good offer. I don’t know that anyone will want Graham enough to pony up an offer they Eagles can’t refuse.

I have speculated about Jason Avant being trade material for a while. That changed after the Maclin injury. I do wonder if the Eagles would be open to moving Avant. The argument for keeping him is that he’s a terrific role player, good blocker and good leader (he was key in the Riley Cooper thing settling down). The counter is to deal him and see if Greg Salas could take over that role. That would allow you to also keep Russell Shepard and you would add a draft pick. This would be a roll of the dice, but you would be making the WR corps younger and more athletic.

I would not make this move for a 7th rounder. I’m not sure about a 6th. I just don’t know if anyone would be willing to give a 5th for Avant. The knee-jerk answer is no, but if this is a contending team, they may see this a not much different from a 6th round pick since they expect to be at the bottom of the round anyway.

* * * * *

Many of you are starting to ask about players from other teams. Should the Eagles be interested in So & So if he’s cut by the Niners or Bengals or whoever?

The Eagles roster has holes. The team has scouts looking at the other 31 teams and trying to find help.

Let’s make one thing clear. We’re looking for upgrades, not change. Too many people say “Nate Allen is a bum. Anyone would be better than that guy.” No, that isn’t true. Nate hasn’t proven to be a good player with any consistency in his 3 years. He has good games, but they are definitely outnumbered by the bad ones.

Someone on Twitter asked about Taylor Mays. He’s 230 pounds. He’s fast. If he gets cut, should we be interested? No. Actually, hell no. Mays hasn’t been good enough to regularly get on the field in SF or Cincy. Nate might be an underachiever, but Mays is a non-achiever.

As much as anything, the Eagles are looking for depth and competition right now. You aren’t going to find many starters in late August, but you can find a player to come in and improve the depth. Those players could eventually become key role players or starters. It just isn’t realistic to expect instant answers to be out there.

The Eagles will be making moves in the next couple of weeks. Most will be minor, but you never know when you might land a key player. Back in 1998 the Eagles picked up some guy named Al Harris late in the summer and he turned out to be kinda decent.


128 Comments on “Some Roster Talk”

  1. 1 ICDogg said at 11:13 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    What Roseman said is basically what I’ve been arguing the Eagles should do for years, so obviously I have no problem with it. Balance is overrated. If you have a great offense, you can plug enough holes on defense to make it work. If you have a great defense, you can do the same for the offense. If you’ve just got good solid players across the board, you end up mired in above-averageness.

  2. 2 TommyLawlor said at 11:30 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    Why the hell didn’t you tell Howie this a few years back? 4-12 is all your fault.

  3. 3 ICDogg said at 11:41 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    I tried to but apparently he doesn’t read TATE.

  4. 4 TommyLawlor said at 11:53 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    Ha. Fire Howie!!!

  5. 5 ICDogg said at 11:19 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    I have a nagging feeling that someone should try Taylor Mays out as an ILB or WILL backer.

  6. 6 TommyLawlor said at 11:30 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    He’s a puss. No way. He’s been soft since USC. Likes to hit defenseless receivers, but isn’t good at playing in traffic.

  7. 7 ICDogg said at 11:45 PM on August 23rd, 2013:


  8. 8 I Drink Weed and Smoke Beer said at 11:31 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    trade avant to keep shepard? oh hell no…

  9. 9 ICDogg said at 11:48 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    I agree with you. I think Avant is valuable to us even in a rebuilding mode.

  10. 10 GEagle said at 8:21 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Absolutely….with rumors swirling about his questionable future here, he takes young WRs under his wing. Class Act…if they do ever trade Avant, I really hope they do right by him and send him to a contender

  11. 11 Media Mike said at 8:26 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I’ll agree to stop hating on Avant if he agrees to keep his stupid hands down after routine catches.

  12. 12 GEagle said at 8:54 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Lol…sort of like my Beef with Celeks 1st down signal celebrations….Lucky for us, High Tempo should eliminate a lot of tht crap

  13. 13 Media Mike said at 8:56 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Celek’s is more annoying than Avant’s but in either case I only want celebrations on plays that merit celebration.

  14. 14 GEagle said at 9:01 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    The only play that I’m ok with Celebrating that’s not a TD or turnover is a Sack…..Blast a QB and you can celebrate all day as far as I’m concerned..

    OMG, did anyone see the Giant’s Hynosauraus Celebration? That Dude, doing his RINO dance is just awesome!!! I’m so jealous he is a Giant lol

  15. 15 Media Mike said at 9:02 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    F him, he’s garbage and so is anybody wearing a Giants uni.

  16. 16 GEagle said at 9:05 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    you can Not tell me you would not love jumping off your Coach on Sunday and doing The Rino in your living room…I just want his Celebration and his nickname…the player, I could do without lol

  17. 17 A_T_G said at 9:38 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    You watch the games on Sunday sitting on your Coach’s lap?! I think that is frowned upon, especially in PA.

  18. 18 Media Mike said at 9:41 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. I want to coach Jennifer Lawrence, Evangeline Lilly, Karen Gillen in that case.

  19. 19 GEagle said at 10:13 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Hahahahah well played sir. Well played

  20. 20 Arby1 said at 11:11 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Avant is probably still our most clutch receiver despite a few bad drops last season. And he’s showing it in preseason. Mister 3rd Down.

  21. 21 Matt Hoover said at 11:43 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    You keep mentioning Avant as a possible traded player, even after a good summer and 2 good preseason! I have never bought into this notion, yes he’s older but when were talking about Chip wanting to win, gambling on salas isn’t something Chip will do if he wants to win now. You fail to mention Celek who has had a up and down summer and 2 preason games. If you mention Avant then mention Celek or even the toddfather.

  22. 22 ICDogg said at 11:51 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    I don’t know if Celek still has it or not, but I do think his hands must have taken a pounding in the last few years with all the blocking he was expected to do.

  23. 23 TommyLawlor said at 11:56 PM on August 23rd, 2013:

    Celek remains the team’s best blocking TE and that does have value in a running offense. But Celek getting traded could be possible. That wouldn’t shock me.

    Herremans isn’t likely to be dealt since he can start anywhere but C. That versatility gives him real value. And he did play better last week.

    And I’m not trying to get rid of Jason. I have tremendous respect for him. You just have to ask tough questions when you’re figuring out who to keep and who to move.

  24. 24 ICDogg said at 2:03 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I am not anxious to move anyone on the offensive side of the ball, other than who we were going to cut anyway. I think we’re pretty well set on O unless there’s a decent backup center on the wire, who might be an upgrade on Reynolds or Vandervelde there.

  25. 25 GEagle said at 9:03 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Same…I’d wait til the draft to move Celek, unless someone is desperate and is willing to pony up a higher pick than What Celek would fetch on draft day…
    I would however “consider” a Watkins for Byrd trade 😉

  26. 26 Mac said at 2:23 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I’m willing to trade Celek straight up for Tom Brady.

  27. 27 A_T_G said at 10:43 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I’m not sure it would be worth the risk of upsetting the chemistry by adding the competition for Dorenbos in the Mrs. Category.

    Of course, if we could get a charity pudding wrestling event out of it…

  28. 28 A_T_G said at 9:06 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Trade Celek? We barely have four starting worthy TEs as is, and that seems to be the minimum in this new offense.

    With Barbre playing well, I am actually surprised we haven’t tried to mave Peters back to TE.

  29. 29 TommyLawlor said at 10:32 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    No need to. Matt Tennant showed last year what a dominant TE he can be.

    Joking aside…Derek Carrier would be the wildcard here. If they like him more than we know, that would give them freedom.

  30. 30 GEagle said at 12:21 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    I don’t see how Carrier can replace Celeks blocking….would Harbors blocking be sufficient to jettison Celek if Carrier emerges as a pass catching weapon that they don’t want to lose?

  31. 31 Maggie said at 1:09 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Odd, I made the comment on another board that perhaps the Eagles were building the offense, THEN the defense. A little at a time. I got several comments back about how stupid I am.

  32. 32 TommyLawlor said at 1:36 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Eagles fans are not subtle with criticism. 🙂

  33. 33 ICDogg said at 2:04 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    The boards are brutal sometimes

  34. 34 RIP illa said at 10:28 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    SMH!!! I have no idea why you feel that you’re always being persecuted but I assure you are not.
    If anybody has any disagreements w/ you on that board, it’s mainly due to how, when people are talking just about the football related topic at hand, you come out of nowhere and reply w/ some comment trying to turn the issue into a socio-political argument! Or if by chance you stick to just talking football, you will sometimes reply w/ comment(s) that are completely stray away from the context of the conversation, that leave people saying…what! And/or add statements of facts that have already been taken into consideration. This does not happen every single time, as you do have valued and intelligent comments. Yet it happens more than enough.

    As a matter of fact, for the comments in question, you replied to one of my comments where I was discussing the defense and defensive building going into the future w/, a couple other people. I replied back to you disagreeing w/ Roseman’s process of building our D but not disagreeing that he was focusing on the offense more than the D, which I don’t really agree w/ but it wasn’t even part if the conversation to begin with. Anybody who watched the team this offseason knew that he was doing that. So in reply to your comment I was disagreeing w/ the fact of how ROSEMAN was going about things, since you brought it up, out of nowhere. At no point did I insult your intelligence and/or call you stupid. And as far as several comments…how do you get several from on reply?!

    Comment about whatever you want, as this is what we do in discussing our team. But please leave the Drama Queen antics and made up personal attacks out.

  35. 35 TommyLawlor said at 10:33 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Whoa dude. Let’s keep things from getting too personal here. The above comment was generic. Respond if you want, but do so in a semi-friendly manner.

  36. 36 RIP illa said at 10:49 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Forgive me. It’s just kinda of hard to take it as a generic comment when I was one of the two people involved w/ that particular convo. Nor did I think I was being Agressive or hostile towards her. Blunt yes. So in the future I will work on trying to pull back on my bluntness and try to phrase my comments in a more semi-friendly manner.

  37. 37 TommyLawlor said at 11:20 AM on August 24th, 2013:


  38. 38 GEagle said at 12:23 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    It’s sort of like the refree dynamic….He who retaliates is the one that gets caught

  39. 39 TommyLawlor said at 1:37 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Watching Matt McGloin play QB for the Raiders is blowing my mind. He looks good for a #3 QB. Executes the system well. Accurate. Still has physical limitations, but I’m shocked that he’s playing well. I thought his limitations were too much for the NFL.

    Just proves what a great QB coach Bill O’Brien is. PSU fans need to enjoy him while he lasts.

  40. 40 Media Mike said at 6:32 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I have a right to expect O’Brien to be there for another 409 win dynasty!

  41. 41 goeagles55 said at 12:39 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    You must be misremembering. The NCAA and I only recall 298 wins, followed by JoePa’s disappearance in 1998.

  42. 42 holeplug said at 8:46 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Also shows just how far behind the times Paterno’s staff was.

  43. 43 GermanEagle said at 4:57 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I don’t wanna sound jealous but the Bears D just forced more turnovers in one pre season game last night than the Eagles D in the whole regular season last year…

  44. 44 GEagle said at 8:24 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    peanut Tillman, easily one of my top 5 plays in the NFL…
    Bears and Steelers aka LBville USA just keep adding Studs, Bostic and “Uncle Jarvis” sure seem to be nice fits early on..

    If the bears ever were going to lose Melton, I would go after him relentlessly.. Big fan of him and Geno Atkins

  45. 45 A_T_G said at 9:11 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I would like to see that top 5 list someday. I am pretty sure more than 5 players have easily made it in various comments.

  46. 46 GEagle said at 9:14 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    James Harrison
    Bernard Pollard
    Cam Wake
    Richard Sherman

  47. 47 Media Mike said at 9:23 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Thug life! Those dudes crack some skulls!

  48. 48 GEagle said at 10:22 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Notice I don’t list a single offensive player!

  49. 49 Media Mike said at 10:27 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I take great offense at Sherman cheating the 4 game suspension he deserved for the fail drug test and then trying to slime the collection process as if he wasn’t guilty. I love the dude’s game, but he owes the football Gods 4 missed games.

  50. 50 GEagle said at 10:59 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I personally think they all cheat, so I don’t ever get on players for getting caught….Heck if it were up to me, they would all be scientifically enhanced demigods, who can levitate, and shoot fireballs out of their ass

  51. 51 A_T_G said at 9:44 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Not bad, but no DRC?

  52. 52 GEagle said at 10:14 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    he is just too physical for my list 🙂

  53. 53 Anders said at 10:40 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    The Bears also played a Raiders team there is a good candidate too go 0-16

  54. 54 GENETiC-FREAK said at 4:59 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Hey Tommy.. Few questions..
    1. Do you think Eagles should have drafted Wilkerson instead of Watkins at the time? Cox n Wilkerson on the DL would of been crazy good!
    2. Players like Bamiro n Kruger have alot of upside.. Any chance you see them making the 53 or get ‘injured’ some how n put on IR? Cant see them passing the waiver to Practice Squad.


  55. 55 TommyLawlor said at 10:37 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I liked Wilkerson, but think I had CB Jimmy Smith as the Eagles primary target. I liked Watkins. Everybody liked Watkins. The thought was just that he’d go early in the 2nd Rd due to his age.

    We don’t know how Kelly thinks in terms of an NFL roster. Will he want projects around or will he prefer guys that can definitely contribute this year. I think both Bamiro & Kruger need to play really well the next 2 weeks to have a shot at the roster.

    You can’t just put guys on IR for nothing. They need to have an injury or they need to have surgery, even if it is minor.

  56. 56 GEagle said at 10:55 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I had Jimmy as well that year…his career hasn’t exactly taken off either yet

  57. 57 Media Mike said at 11:38 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Good honesty on Watkins. I was a fan of the pick when they made it as well.

  58. 58 GEagle said at 12:27 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Yeah, I actually didn’t hate the Watkins pick atthe time…but I’m a defensive guy so I will always prefer looking at defense….
    The problem withthe Watkins pick, is we didn’t get any of the advantages that we thought we were getting by drafting an older player, but we got all the negatives..
    I still don’t look at him as a lost cause, but the clock is ticking for him.l just pictured Marrissa Tomei in her sexy brooklyn accent, bitching about how her “Biological clock is ticking” lol

  59. 59 mheil said at 6:33 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    adding tra to the staff makes me believe that his personal project, bamiro, will make the final 53; the puff piece wulf wrote that bamiro, kruger and poyer “have come a long way” is a clue that all 3 are in their plans

  60. 60 TommyLawlor said at 10:37 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Might be.

  61. 61 Media Mike said at 6:40 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I cannot wait to see what the final contract number is going to be for Byrd. Average Eric Weddle 5 years / $40 million and hit big / cover little DaShon Goldson got 5 years / $41.25. Where do we start with an impact football player like Jarius Byrd; 5 years / $45 million? 5 years / $50 million? Buffalo needs to stop holding this guy’s career hostage and either pay him or trade him to somebody who will.
    The above situation is why I don’t have a problem when guys hold out in the final year of a deal or when they’re free agents.

  62. 62 GEagle said at 8:26 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I just hate franchise Tags…can’t stand them. pay up, or let someone else pay up!!

  63. 63 Media Mike said at 8:31 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I think you should have to designate one guy as your “franchise” player per 5 year period and that’s it. The tag was designed to keep Dan Marino from jumping teams, not keep a kicker or a safety.

  64. 64 GEagle said at 8:43 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Yeah I would Actually like that idea, or ATleast a 3yr period…The game is too physical, too dangerous to be holding these guys contracts. it’s bad enough that the most loved sport in America is the only one without GUARENTEED contracts…that we can’t be forcing these guys to go 1,2,3 years in contract limbo playing on one year deals….You draft a guy, you got 4-5 years with him, Now Pay Up, or trade the man!!

  65. 65 A_T_G said at 9:13 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    As long as they aren’t our guy…

  66. 66 Media Mike said at 9:23 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I was ok with it when Westbrook was doing so in the context of truly being owed a new/better deal. TO doing so in year two of a 6 year deal was unacceptable.

  67. 67 A_T_G said at 9:34 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    What about DeSean? I was only kidding with my comment, but I seem to remember you being critical of DeSean for being concerned with his contract situation under his rookie deal. Maybe I am remembering wrong?

  68. 68 Media Mike said at 9:39 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I only joined here a few months ago, so you’re mixing me up with somebody else. I supported DeSean in the goal, but possibly not the method used, of getting a long term big money deal together. A multiple time pro bowler playing for $700k was totally inappropriate given the team friendly deal he signed with no hesitation.

  69. 69 A_T_G said at 9:44 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Okay, my bad. There was someone clinging to the “MeSean” moniker right up through this offseason, but I must be confusing you with someone else. It isn’t the first time.

  70. 70 Media Mike said at 10:13 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    DeSean is my favorite guy on the team, so I guarantee it wasn’t me calling him MeSean. My anti list includes:
    Vick – ready to move on
    Celek and Avant – dislike celebrations on non-big plays
    our entire safety population except Wolff and Anderson
    Cheney – dude just doesn’t understand how to flow to the ball carrier instead of leaving cutback lanes
    Maclin – because people who don’t like DeSean try to overrate and overstate the skills of Maclin

  71. 71 GEagle said at 12:33 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    My immediate anti list would be:
    Cole since they continue to play him ahead of Graham, but I do understand the contract..
    Chaney.. I shouldn’t have to explain this one
    Nate….why should we lose out on better ST players for a guy we won’t extend?

    Next years anti List:

    Casey Mathews

  72. 72 Dominik said at 6:47 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    “Someone on Twitter asked about Taylor Mays. He’s 230 pounds. He’s fast.
    If he gets cut, should we be interested? No. Actually, hell no. Mays
    hasn’t been good enough to regularly get on the field in SF or Cincy.
    Nate might be an underachiever, but Mays is a non-achiever.”

    While I don’t want to get into the details with Mays (you can evaluate him better then I can), I don’t like the thinking behind that argument. SF and Cincy have good Defensive units (# 2 and # 8), it’s possible that a player can’t get on the field there and still be solid, because there are good players around him.

    Just because Allen played regularly, it doesn’t mean he has more value than a guy who didn’t play regularly on a good D. Allen played poor, that’s the point.

    Now if you tell me a player who couldn’t play regularly in a very poor D like the Saints or the Titans can be a help for us, I’m with you. But Allen playing bad in a very poor D doesn’t make him an ‘OK’ player, just because he played.

    On the Robinson trade: Tomlin killed that one for me (‘one trick pony’). Hearing that from your coach is tough. But we didn’t gave up anything, so why criticize?

  73. 73 Media Mike said at 6:54 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Except the Niners knew Goldson was going to leave as a free agent, but allowed Mays to walk anyway. They had no idea Eric Reid would be there for them to draft at the time they allowed Mays to leave and they trusted a future unknown draft pick over Mays for their roster. I think Tommy is correct that the hype on Mays doesn’t match the skill level.

  74. 74 Dominik said at 8:58 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Guys, my point wasn’t about Mays. My point was that being a starter doesn’t qualify you of being an ‘OK’ NFL player. There are always the competitors. It always depends on how you play (first and foremorst) and how you’re competitors are playing.

    Let’s put it this way: if Barbre doesn’t play this year, because our O-Line stays completely healthy (maybe not a realistic scenario, but for the sake of the argument), it doesn’t mean that he couldn’t help a crappy O-Line next year. The argument could be “Barbre didn’t see the field last year, and our LG played 16 games”, but it isn’t a good argument when that LG was playing very bad.

    Same thing with Allen. Only because he played doesn’t mean he was ‘OK’ or anything close to that.

  75. 75 Media Mike said at 9:01 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I’m buying what you’re selling on Allen, I just don’t want a guy gone to make a guy gone unless there is a purpose to it. I’ll rip on Allen all day and night, but I don’t foresee a clearly better player showing up.

  76. 76 GEagle said at 9:08 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I would like to see Wolff and Phillips play with the 1’s so we can actually know if we can’t get rid of him…Right now, NO I would not cut Nate…but I would like to see what other guys can do so that maybe we could cut him, trade him, or do whatever it takes to remove the last reminder of a historically pathetic secondary..

    Just the Fact that we Got Nate Allen for Trading Donovan was a bad omen lol

  77. 77 Dominik said at 9:09 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I guess I’m not making my point clear enough. I’m not endorsing to cut Allen, I just don’t like the argument that he was ‘only’ a underachiever, while players who didn’t play are non-achievers. You CAN be a good player despite not seeing the field (if your competitors are good). More playing time doesn’t mean that you are a better player.

    And again, I’m not saying that I want Mays on the roster. It’s more of a philosophical argument. 😉

  78. 78 Tom33 said at 7:55 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Watch this season’s “Hard Knocks”. Tells you all you need to know about Mays. One good play followed by three bad. Plus – he seems to be an odd guy – probably eats lunch in his car! No thanks.

  79. 79 Media Mike said at 8:00 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I typically don’t watch Hard Knocks, but that is some solid info right there.

  80. 80 GEagle said at 8:27 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Yeah he is definitely a weirdo

  81. 81 Media Mike said at 8:32 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Gary Cobb went on a rant about dudes that play football but don’t live football not being who you want on your team. He was mocking Antoine Davis for always talking about Jazz music instead of blocking schemes as to why the dude had no heart and couldn’t man up and play to his talent level.

  82. 82 GEagle said at 8:57 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Seriously, that’s one of the very most exciting parts about Chip Kelly era. Him and Howie seem to have really put together a lockeroom of guys who live this game…Even guys who we questioned like Desean and his lucky charms label, are more focused then ever….It really is important!!

  83. 83 Media Mike said at 8:59 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Well, talk is cheap (And the Bidwell and Brown families are cheaper) so we’ll see how much anybody really “loves the game” once the going gets tough.

  84. 84 GEagle said at 9:16 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I’m willing to bet that they would still Genuinly care that they are losing….I doubt you will see this group quit on the field

  85. 85 GEagle said at 8:03 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Nate Allen is Bad!! The best you can get out of him is shadowing a WR/TE enough so the QB doesn’t throw the ball his way….that’s as good as it gets with Allen…besides that, he does NOTHING!!! I don’t want to hear Good and Allen in the same sentence ever again,,..I always hear how we overvalue our own guys, well Nate being “Good” is a prime example of that. Nate is a COMPETANT 2nd string safety at best

  86. 86 Media Mike said at 8:09 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Even if you’re 100% correct in everything you’re saying about Nate, it doesn’t mean that a better safety is going to be cut. I still would have preferred Glover Quinn (who I think you didn’t care for either) for his coverage skills, but at this point of the pre-season, you might not see anybody of quality hit the streets.
    Also, safety play in the NFL has SUCKED over that past 5 years or so. There is such a lack of quality talent at that position, the Eagles are hardly alone in lacking safety talent. If you look at the 8 “starting” safeties in this division, all of them suck at some aspect of football.

  87. 87 GEagle said at 8:38 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I don’t disagree about it not being easy to find someone better off the street…but is there really a chance of us actually extending his contract? he is going to walk at the end of the year, and he is “ok” at best….iF we start Labeling Nate Allen “Good”, then what is Fletcher Cox? Top 5 NFL player? Lol……If Allen had more years on his contract, I could see riding out another year with him, but I would rather start developing Wolff….I understand not wanting to start the season with a 5th rd rook, but I really hope to see him take over by midseason.
    with the state of our safety affairs, I am in no position to scoff at Quinn, I’d take him in a heartbeat right now, but No he wouldn’t be my ideal Safety. I like my boys Physical!!!

    Somewhere along the line we have been fooled into believing that we can either have A) A physical Safety or B) A cover Safety…..I want Neither!!! It’s still possible to find Both in a safety, and that’s what I am looking for. I want 11 Physical defenders who actually “like” to hit..I know, I know. What a crazy concept lol…The Desire to hit and get Dirty should be a prerequisite for playing Defense in the Midnight green…but there has to be good cover skills at well…..I would actually take a player with Nates cover ability if he were physical and could strike some fear n someone….who the hell fears Nate Allen?..

  88. 88 Media Mike said at 8:39 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I doubt they’re seriously considering extending Allen’s deal.

  89. 89 GEagle said at 8:47 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Exactly! Which is why I’m extremely frustrated with the handling of the safety position this preseason. If they would actually see what Wolff can do with the 1’s in a preseason game or two, we could actually have this debate. I can’t pound the table to start Earl Wolff in Washington, that’s just foolish. BUt that’s only because they haven’t really given him the chance to see what he can do yet during the preseason, and it’s really frustrating. Nate Allen is not soooo great that you can’t sacrifice 1 of Allen’s 3 preseason starts to take a real look at the Rookie. Frustrating.

  90. 90 A_T_G said at 9:29 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I think, with the situation he entered after returning from injury and the glimpse he showed before the injury (and coaching) caught up with him, I think Nate gets a clean slate this year as much as anyone.

    It would be hard to design a worse situation for him than what he has been in.

    Funny, I wonder how much different comments would be today if he had concussed Steve Smith on that pass over the middle. He pulled up, because Smith pulled a Ricky Watters. Yet he gets no credit for putting footsteps into the head of one of the toughest WRs playing.

    Maybe he still disappoints, maybe he can’t wash off the stink of last year, but I doubt Chip and Howie have closed the book.

  91. 91 GEagle said at 10:16 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    smith thought it was Chung lol…Clean slate is Fine, but I do not think he deserves to be monopolitizing first team reps during preseason games…

  92. 92 A_T_G said at 12:40 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    He was asked to play deep center field… and be the primary run support in the A-gap, coming off a knee injury, with a carousel of coaches, and surrounded by dysfunction and sometimes-players.

    Physicality from the secondary comes from confidence and momentum. He had little chance to develop either.

  93. 93 GEagle said at 12:50 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    When players don’t know what they are doing, I prefer the just Blast the first player in front of them…Plenty of times Nate had no clue what he was doing, but he never hits anyone. I can’t watch him. it drives me nuts…I welcome him making me eat these words and proving me wrong. Since I don’t have the power to cut him, nothing to do but hope I’m wrong about him…I just don’t like how he plays the safety position…In 4 years I can’t remember a single big hit. Not one!

    With that said NO ONE can convince me that he deserves to dominate the first team preseason reps the way he has. we continue to accept Nate out of fear that we don’t have anything better…well unless we give someone a chance, that’s just not going to magically change…and the time to give guys a look is during the preseason!…For my taste, Wolff has shown enough against backups to warrant taking a look at what he can do when thrown in there with the 1’s…I’m aggrivated that didn’t happen in the Carolina game, so we could have options on who to play with the ones in tonight’s dress rehearsal

  94. 94 TommyLawlor said at 10:41 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    After 3 years, a player will have shown good NFL ability or he doesn’t have it. No player, even on a good defense, sits for 3 years and doesn’t do jack. Guys become key role players or impact STers.

    I don’t just casually look at some stats and come to a conclusion. I watch tape of guys and do my research. I know the difference in a bum and a guy who is a good backup / role player.

  95. 95 GermanEagle said at 11:43 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    That being said Nate Allen is a bum.

  96. 96 GEagle said at 1:06 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Nate isn’t judged as a good backup…we judge Nate in terms of a starter, and I’m just not comfortable with the good label with Nate. We can agree to disagree, but I think Good should mean something, and at best I see Nates “good games” as adequate in terms of a staring NFL 2nd round safety…But since it looks like I will have to watch another year of “not so Nasty” Nate, I would love to be wrong about this.
    I would also be interestd in getting your thoughts on the play early in the Carolina game when there was a breakdown between Nate and Brad and someone didn’t cover the flat…without knowing their responsibilities your guess was that it was an error on Fletcher. I watched that play over and over, last night and from what the two other Eagles players near Bradley did on that play, it looked to me like the error was on Nate

  97. 97 Dominik said at 4:21 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    “After 3 years, a player will have shown good NFL ability or he doesn’t
    have it. No player, even on a good defense, sits for 3 years and doesn’t
    do jack. Guys become key role players or impact STers.”

    Fair enough. My point was just that a player who plays 3 years doesn’t have to be an OK player. Allen has to prove this year that he is an OK player, but I wouldn’t call him that at the moment, not even close to OK. Playing time alone (!) isn’t a good category, I guess that’s the main conclusion of my standpoint.

    “I don’t just casually look at some stats and come to a conclusion. I watch tape of guys and do my research. I know the difference in a bum and a guy who is a good backup / role player.”

    Didn’t want to question your expertise, Tommy. Just didn’t like the structure of this argument in particular. 🙂

  98. 98 GEagle said at 7:53 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Stop with the Nate Allen defense…Get him the hell out of here!!!..good games? You mean Abysmal games, and not so abysmal games?

  99. 99 mrparabolic said at 8:45 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I remember Personal F’Al Harris.

  100. 100 Dominik said at 9:03 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Re: Eagles switch weekly day off to Monday (article from Les Bowen)

    “Linebacker Connor Barwin agreed that “there has to be some reason
    [related to] recovery that he’s doing it. We all trust in him and think
    it’s going to work out.”

    Maybe this isn’t a big deal, but I do wonder why Kelly (apparently) hasn’t talked to the team about that change. He said back in March that he wouldn’t do anything if he can’t answer the “why” question from players. While I’m sure he has good arguments, why don’t tell them? It doesn’t sound like a big deal to us fans, but I’m sure players want to know why they now have Mondays off and Tuesdays not.

  101. 101 Media Mike said at 10:11 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    If I were to venture a guess, it was done to cut down on partying up on Monday nights. If I’m tired from playing on Sunday, I’m not likely to go out on Sunday night. If I’m tired from playing on Sunday, go to meetings on Monday, I’m ready to get f’ed up on Monday night and sleep it off all day Tuesday.
    Probably a smart move by Kelly.

  102. 102 TommyLawlor said at 10:43 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Maybe Chip did tell them and then told the players to be quiet about it. Chip doesn’t like to give out info on the science stuff. That’s where he’s the most secretive. And if he’s that way, you can bet he told the players to be quiet about it.

  103. 103 Dominik said at 4:28 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Possible, of course. I don’t know how direct the quote from Bowens article is (I have experience in journalism, so I know that you try to be as precise as possible if you quote someone, but oftentimes it’s more of a: ‘he said that, but maybe not in exactly those words’ kind of thing), but Barwin really sounds surprised to me.
    If you are right, Tommy (and again, that’s possible!), he could have said something like: Coach told us about his reasons, and we are all fine with it, but I’ll keep the reasons to myself.

    Players do that all the time, Barwin could have done it, too.

  104. 104 BlindChow said at 12:08 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Maybe none of them bothered asking. At this point they probably trust him enough that they don’t feel the need to question his decisions.

  105. 105 GEagle said at 10:10 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I am currently watching ESPNs sports science NFL preview, and they are about to show the effects of a high tempo offense on a defense, and they are doing it in relationship to Chip Kelly

  106. 106 A_T_G said at 10:34 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I am not sure I accept the premise that good teams choose to focus on one side more, at least as a conscious decision. I wonder if it is more of a case where a coach is dynamic on one side of the ball and so is more focused there.

    Within the parameter of BPA, it would seem that a good OLB would provide us with a bigger bump than a good TE, for example.

  107. 107 TommyLawlor said at 10:45 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Howie did say they didn’t target a TE per se. They had Ertz as the highest rated guy on their board.

    I really do wonder if Dion Jordan had been there with an OT at #4…who would they have taken?

  108. 108 A_T_G said at 10:49 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Yeah, I wonder about Dion too. I guess we can hope he hates the Florida heat and misses his old coach in a few years.

  109. 109 TommyLawlor said at 11:21 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    We’ll just kidnap him. That;’s my plan for getting Sean Lee. We’ll use Herremans’ van and can swing by Miami o the way back from Dallas.

    Get lots of duct tape. And some candy.

  110. 110 Arby1 said at 11:30 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    The only candy in Herreman’s van is the kind you smoke.

  111. 111 GEagle said at 12:36 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    I wish Graham were playing at a first round level….then maybe you can call a 4-3 Team like the dolphins and ask about Dion without them laughing at us!

  112. 112 RC5000 said at 5:21 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Knott can become a Lee type of LB. If you’re going to play fantasy LB, you should have gone with Kuechly.

  113. 113 GermanEagle said at 12:04 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    I have to think that Dion would have been the choice.

  114. 114 GEagle said at 12:59 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    can’t wait for the day when he asks for his way out of Miami!! Lol…Positive thinking!!! Whoosah!!! Goosfraba!!

  115. 115 JoeD said at 11:24 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    Dion — no doubt

  116. 116 RC5000 said at 5:19 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    This is a rehash but I lean to thinking he would have gone with Johnson as Johnson is an ideal player. I like Jordan a lot but I think Kelly wants to get the offense going.
    Kelly is an offensive coach and he values the offense more. It’s his philosophy to score points. Not saying he doesn’t value defense. They also passed up Ansah who really in my opinion is arguably better than Jordan although obviously he can’t cover as well and wasn’t an Oregon player.

  117. 117 JoeD said at 11:24 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I KNEW mays would be a bust. A stud of an athlete,but never knew how to play football

  118. 118 Arby1 said at 11:50 AM on August 24th, 2013:

    I do wonder if the FO is considering fielding offers for Graham. In the beginning of the off-season, I argued for giving him a year to pick up the OLB position. But the coaches have worked with him for months and he’s still having trouble with his drops. Is he ‘getting it’ mentally, can he be taught to drop better, is this simply a case of trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole (a “natural” 43 DE into an awkward 34 OLB)? How much progress has he made so far and can they project that over the course of a year? If they can project that he’ll be all of the way there in 1 year, then of course you keep him. Of course, he has value to us this year as a nickel rusher but he might have more value right now as trade bait to a 43 team, especially if the offer was a starter at a needed position like S or a 2nd round draft pick.

  119. 119 GermanEagle said at 12:03 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Dream on if you think we’d get a 2nd rounder for BG. We may be lucky getting a 4th round pick in return.

  120. 120 Arby1 said at 12:40 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    I think he did a pretty good last year statistically on a per snap basis, although there’s always room for interpretation of that data. He’s a very good pass rusher and that has value. But he’s also compromised now with the weight loss for his new position, so there’s that. A 4th rounder? That’s pretty harsh.

  121. 121 GEagle said at 12:43 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    There is also the perception that he is not good enough to get on the field because people play Babin and Cole ahead of him…that doesn’t help

  122. 122 Arby1 said at 12:50 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Well, Cole had been our best DE for years and Babin was coming off a career year playing Wide 9 for his coaching buddy while Graham was recovering from a knee injury. But this year, yeah, still behind Cole – good point.

  123. 123 GEagle said at 12:52 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    it’s not the end all be all, but the perception doesn’t help

  124. 124 GEagle said at 12:41 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    I don’t understand this…we talk about Graham not being able to drop as if Cole is twinkle toes out there in Coverage. Neither should be dropping..but if I had to hope for one to grow to be capable of it, wouldn’t it be the much younger player?,..Until Cole becomes this great cOver guy, how does Graham not fit? if anything doesn’t fit is the scheme that they are asking them to play…instead of trading Graham away for peanuts, why not just alter the coverage a little, ask the 3tec to play single gap, and have Cole and Graham play downhill 90% of the time.

    we can’t say graham doesn’t fit, when the guy playing in front of graham has the same exact issues

  125. 125 Arby1 said at 12:54 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    You’re making the round pegs into square holes argument and I don’t disagree. I’m just wondering if we cash in one chip and draft an OLB high next year. This is definitely going to be a difficult year for us as far as OLB and the secondary go.

  126. 126 GEagle said at 12:56 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Maybe, maybe not….I still think there is a chance they alter their sheme, and play a 4-3U, and if that’s the case, then I definitely want to see what Graham can do as a predator…If they are stubbornly going to play a 2gap 3-4 all year, then yeah, I probably would agree with you…but at the moment, I still have hope in the 4-3under, so Im not there yet with Graham

  127. 127 Arby1 said at 1:42 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    Well, we already know they’re willing to adjust the scheme to fit the personnel so maybe we do give Graham a year. But we know we’re heading toward a 3-4 and will eventually need true 3-4 OLB’s, I’m just speculating on when Graham’s value would be highest. Coming off a good comeback year last year as a 4-3 DE or after floundering, if that’s what he going to do, for a year as a 3-4 OLB?

  128. 128 The Linc – Eagles take on the Gus Bus tonight | Sports Feedr said at 2:04 PM on August 24th, 2013:

    […] Some Roster Talk – Tommy Lawlor, Iggles BlitzTommy talks about the Felix Jones trade, Jairus Byrd, Trent Cole/Brandon Graham, and more. […]