Sunday Ugly Sunday
Posted: October 27th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 266 Comments »Rather than offering up some good analysis, let’s keep this quick. I know you’re pissed off and want to vent about Chip Kelly, Mike Vick, Matt Barkley and many others. Heck, Jonathan Tuttle and Tyler Durden aren’t even safe.
The defense played well enough to win.
The offense sucked. There were a variety of issues. Poor QB play hurt. The skill players didn’t do Barkley any favors.
Chip Kelly didn’t do any of us any favors with some of his decisions.
A few fans have already started to gripe about Kelly. The guy had a bad day, but I’m still thrilled that he is the Eagles coach and think he is the right long term answer.
It would have been so cool if he came in and won right away, but NFL history shows that doesn’t happen very often. There has to be a perfect marriage of roster and new coach for that to happen. Clearly the Eagles aren’t exactly what Kelly wants. He needs time to get the roster the way he wants it.
The Eagles are 3-5, one game out of 1st place in the division. Make of that what you want.
The offense needs a QB. That guy could be on the roster, but he hasn’t stepped forward to this point.
The defense is heading in the right direction.
And STs is doing a great job of turning bad punt snaps into TDs. So that’s definitely key to building a winning team.
Long, crappy day. But at least Dallas lost and did so in dramatic fashion. That was a nice gift for the Football Gods to offer us.
_
Watching David Akers kick the game winning point against Dallas helped me forget the fact that I haven’t seen the Eagles offense score a point in 8 quarters of play.
I do not count last week’s INT against Dallas that the offense failed to advance and we settled for a FG on.
Part of the problem is that opposing defenses are adjusting to what the Eagles are doing. And now it’s the Eagles turn to make adjustments. Although having a QB who could actually make plays might help too.
The adjustments are there and for the most part, guys are getting open. Just the QB play the last two weeks is horrible
If anyone think any offense could work with a 4th round rookie, they are kidding them self.
Looked a hell of a lot better than when Vick was in
Granted Vick wasn’t 100%, maybe not 90%, but I agree, he should look better than a rookie who has yet to start a game in the NFL.
sorry, that vickscuse doesnt cut it for me.
If Vick wasn’t ready to go, he shouldn’t have played.
Not even sprinting full speed till friday set off big alarm bells for me.
Am I making an excuse? I hope he never wears the Green again, because I believe either of the other 2 are better QBing options.
Vick should have rested Friday and not tried sprinting all out. Having 2 extra days to heal could have been crucial plus it is taking a big chance to get injured again.
That said, if he was having big problems with mobility he should have told Kelly he couldn’t go.
Vick shouldn’t have taken first team reps away from a rookie with one quarter under his belt
If he knew he was that bad off, I agree with you. I appreciate he is a warrior and chugs though pain but he has to tell Chip he can’t go if he is that bad off.
If you’re not confident enough to sprint 2 days before the game, you’re not ready to play.
The Dallas game put a smile on my face at least.
Amen. Matt Stafford’s play is the stuff of legend.
Legend.
Legend
Sorry… not sure what’s going on here.
I blame alcohol.
Tommy what do you think of the offensive playcalling?
Is Chip really calling as many read-option plays as the announcers made it seem? Why would he do that with Barkley?
Some are read-option, but others are straight hand-offs that look like read-option plays.
I found it offensive.
Ha!
It wasn’t offensive enough for me.
Seriously. Thank you for being voice of reason, as always.
Detroit just beat Dallas because they had Matthew Stafford throwing to Calvin Johnson. The Eagles have exactly zero players on the same level as those guys. Maybe Shady.
CJ is peerless, Stafford is not.
I don’t think he meant they were on the same level. Rather that we don’t have anyone with their ability at any spot.
I agree with CJ, but not with Stafford.
Stafford made two ridiculous throws, under fire, in the clutch. Just saying. He’s a top 10 QB. We don’t have many top 10 anythings. Like I said, Shady. Definitely Evan Mathis. Is DeSean a top 10 WR? I guess…but towards the bottom of the list.
DeSean is capable of the ridiculous, he can also disappear. DeSean and Stafford are interchangeable at the start of the last sentence.
True, I guess the difference is one plays QB and the other plays WR. But point taken.
DeSean thinks he is but no. He’s a very talented player who does several things well but is limited by his size in the red zone (and at times his foolish decision-making)
Saying Chip Kelly needs his roster in order to be successful is a bit disingenuous in terms of Kelly’s issues today. If the issue was players were open and we had a QB missing them (like last week), then having his own players is a reasonable argument. However, the issues had more to do with decision making in terms of play calls and game management. That has nothing to do with having the right marriage of roster and coach. Kicking an onsides kick down one score with 4 minutes left is a bad decision regardless of roster. Not going for it on 4 and 4 down 15 points with the opportunity to spark an offense that needed something, anything to get itself going has nothing to do with roster, but everything to do with decision making.
I’m not trying to call Chip Kelly an absolute failure by any means. I too like him as the head coach, but let’s not make up excuses that don’t match the issues he has had just because we want/believe he can be successful.
I think you’re confusing my point. Talking about winning now and the roster wasn’t specifically related to today. That was more a general comment to the people who want to think of Jim Harbaugh taking over SF and being great from the start.
Does anyone really think this O could possibly score having to go a full field today? Chip had to try to get us a short field. It was our only chance.
Barkley led us 78 yards before coughing the ball up on the 2. That was after almost 2 quarters of nada offensively.
And how about the following 2Q of nothing? Are we discounting that so we have something to pick at?
If you aren’t wining now, then we should be developing young players….we are doing neither
But the Eagles can still win the East.
Maybe even at 6-10.
Yes, it is mathematically possible
Wouldn’t that be great . . . another “NFC EAST CHAMPION” banner to hang at the Linc.
The Eagles could really use another high draft pick. Winning the division in an off year with a terrible record and getting a poor draft pick in (supposedly) one of the strongest drafts in years would be a pyrrhic victory.
I do agree they should be evaluating our younger players and seeing who is a keeper or not.
If we are looking for a bright spot, I thought Nate Allen has improved a lot since the start of the year.
Mr. Stormbringer:
Your points strike home with me.
I’m not sure, though, that Laurie, Kelly, and Roseman — and numerous readers here — concur.
Thanks AC. I like your posts and rationale too. 🙂
If Chip has a year where he’ll get a ‘pass’ this is it. This is the year when he can have a crummy record, try out some of the youngsters and see what parts of his offense work and what needs tweaking. This is the only year he can really go and say “they aren’t my players”, “I haven’t installed the full scheme”…
It might be painful (upset fans, ownership, etc.) but it is better to take the growing pains now and hopefully get another really high draft pick. If they pushed to ‘win now’ (seems it started that way) they would get a middling draft choice and be in the same boat the Sixers were for years (mediocrity, but not bad enough to get a top pick).
I’ve come to the conclusion if he wants to run the read option, he needs another QB that can run (if only the opposing D is forced to respect it). I think if he keeps Foles or Barkley, he can probably still be successful but he’ll have to adjust a lot more (as we’ve seen the last few weeks).
I think the fans that are frustrated with Chip Kelly right now are not frustrated because he is not “winning now” but because he is making coaching mistakes. No one really questions that this roster is flawed and that we are not a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Fans expect to lose games because of weak talent.
Still, coaching mistakes is something that is harder to accept because we expect Kelly to be a good coach. That is where the questions in regards to Chip Kelly are coming from. Not because we are not going to win the Super Bowl this year.
I’d venture that the frustration is building because the offense — in particular, the vaunted running game — gives the appearance (real or memorex) of regressing.
That would mean, if true, that Kelly’s not making adjustments.
In truth, receivers were running open last week. Maybe this week.
But on the ground, the team looks like crap at the moment.
Where’s the play-call for a “power run” at the Giant’s 2 yard-line with a rookie 4th Rd QB in the game?
Frustrating, yes.
I bet most fans would be willing to tolerate a losing season this year but not a boring team especially one that struggles on offense.
Kelly fingered the ‘instability at QB’ and the difficulty Barkley has in coming into a game as the 2nd option for the 2nd week in a row in his post-game conference.
Definitely is some true to both of those but I am really looking to see what adjustments Kelly and his staff make next week if Barkley is going to be named the starter which seems almost inevitable at this point.
Cut vick now
That would be a one-way ticket to Shciano land.
Explain, please.
Bold premise.
Pretty good chance that the players don’t feel the way Finlay Jones does wrt Vick. More than that, I suspect that with a commitment to Foles or Barkley, everyone’s packing in the tent on Kelly.
Yeah, Schiano-land.
S-8:
Cutting Vick is madness. Not “mad scientist.”
But, it seems to me from the players’ point of view, starting Foles or Barkley is only a problem if (a) Vick is sufficiently healthy that his hamstring won’t pop again, and (b) the Eagles have a chance to win the NFC East.
If, on the other hand, Vick’s sidelined (hypothetically) for the next 4 weeks and the Eagles go 0-4 — resulting in a 3-9 record — should Vick go back in?
well, he came back for that horrible game against the Giants last year too.
But seriously, truly seriously, I’m hoping I hear of some sort of trade for a WR by the trade deadline. Bad WR play outside of Jackson is the primary cause of offensive dysfunction.
I think D-Jax is very good.
But I’d be thrilled to swap him for V-Jackson.
We’re in an age where big WRs are more dangerous, especially the way DBs can’t hit them.
I know DJax started hot and has some nice numbers.
But long term, a big guy is desperately needed here. With or without DeSean,
And I don’t mean of the quality of Cooper
I think committing to Foles for the rest of the year would be acceptable in the locker room. Especially after today. Vick is clearly not healthy, and hasn’t really performed well since Week 2.
But cutting him would be throwing him under the bus, when he’s only one of many of the problem on this team, and certainly not the sole one. As a leader, and someone with substantial seniority and impact on the psyche of this team, he’s more important on the sideline than as a ritualistic or “making a statement” cut.
That sort of reactionary, macho, over the top “message” is one of the many reasons Schiano is flailing in TB, and I hope Chip has more smarts than that.
nicely put
It’s really a problem when the obvious needs to be said all the time.
“I think committing to Foles for the rest of the year would be acceptable in the locker room. Especially after today. Vick is clearly not healthy, and hasn’t really performed well since Week 2.”
Agree with everything after this paragraph. This paragraph not so much.
Dallas lost and Dez Bryant continues to make TO’s sideline antics look rather tame.
What did Dez do?
I agree with you Tommy but football is, when all is said and done, a form of entertainment and the last two weeks have been far from entertaining.
Chip has failed to (and stop me if you’ve heard this phrase before) put his players in a better position to make plays.
Billy Bill as I like to call him is seemingly making the right adjustments for the most part and calling a decent game (with IMO less to work with talent-wise)
No entertainment today. More like punishment.
Character building. Can anyone remember the last time we held a team to 0 TDs from 5 RZ trips?
If anyone remembers the game when Westy tore off a PR to win the game. Boy was our O ugly that day! We had more belief back then than today, but I think we are still going in the right direction.
How did the Cowboys lose?! I turned it off when the Lions failed to convert on 4th down near the end of the game.
80 yard drive in 1 minute
50 seconds, actually, with zero TOs
Dallas still had 12 seconds to score.
Brilliant QB sneak on the goal line. Did Stafford freelance there?
I am having trouble keeping up. Is the debate this week Foles vs. Barkley, or Barkey vs. Kinne? Kinne vs. Casey?
I wonder what McNabb is doing next week…
Polk vs. Tucker.
I’m gonna guess radio?
He has a good face for radio.
Geno’s vs Pats
I’m got ready to switch to the Jets-Patriots rivalry yet.
I think it is abundantly obvious that the QB of the future is NOT on the roster. Therefore, one will need to be drafted. Therefore every loss helps us get one step closer to Chip being able to get his guy.
I think it’s time to give James Casey a look at QB.
I’d settle for giving Casey a look at TE
“Sunday Ugly Sunday.” Very nice. Some alternatives…
“I Still Haven’t Found the QB I’m Looking For”
“Where the Safeties Have No Name”
“New Year’s Draft Day”
“(No) Pride”
“With or Without D”
“Bad”
“The Unforgettable Fire (an ode to Brian Dawkins)”
“Mysterious Plays”
“Red Zone Fumbling Town.”
“Done”
“Hold Me, Throw Me, Drop Me, Punt Me”
Punt, Eagles Punt
Chip’s first big error was letting Vick start this week and take reps from Barkley. I can’t believe he was fooled into thinking a 33 yr old would recover that quick from a hamstring. Honestly that’s my only disappointment this week. I’m very happy with the defense, good job by special teams, and ok with Barkley.
Kelly got outcoached today against a team that ran vanilla schemes on both sides of the ball & challenged the Eagles to beat them offensively
My confidence in Chip eroded a little today, no question about it.
I’ll admit that after 14 years of questionable clock decisions I’m oversensitive to coaching calls, but between the on-sides kick, the 60 yard attempt last week, the non-50 yard attempt this week, and a few others over the first 8 games, I’m concerned about Kelly’s game management.
The optimist in me is chalking it up to his relative unfamiliarity with close games and league parity…
don’t forget, not going for it on 4th and 4, and then going for it on 4th and ten and 4th and 20 next drive.
Ugh. Yeah.
It would be one thing if he was bringing a new perspective to 4th down aggression (see “Eagles Rewind” for some great thoughts on 4th down strategy), but it seems like he’s kind of winging it – or worse – reacting to previous decisions… i.e. “you guys gave me crap about going for a 60 yard field goal last week so I’m NOT going to go for a 50 yard one this week.”
All of that said, I actually DON’T believe he’s easily swayed, or that he can’t or won’t admit and learn from his mistakes, but game management is something to keep an eye on.
And to be very fair, I don’t think “game management” is anywhere near the biggest hurdle for this team right now (talent, experience)
60yd kick was with the wind, 50yd kick was against. Not saying the calls were right, but positive that was part of the decision making process.
Oh I’m sure he has a reason for all of his decisions, and they may all be correct… I’m just saying per Bob Brewer that I’m starting to ask questions that I wasn’t before… like, “did he factor in the Giants multiple field goals and consider how they fared with or without the wind?, and given his relative inexperience in the NFL does he respect an NFL kicker’s leg?, and is he familiar with the importance of taking 3 points when you can get them when he probably had very few close games at Oregon?”
And although the above sounds sarcastic, it’s not. I’m just curious how he will adapt to what seem – at least on the outside – to be some questionable decisions.
Something else to consider, how long will it take him to get a ‘feel’ for the NFL 2-minute drill? I didn’t see today’s game (which sounds like a happy coincidence unfortunately) but reading the comments I think the aspect of him being “college boy” has some relevance. I’m not suggesting he doesn’t belong in the NFL, but I would think that an analogy can be made to rookie players thinking more than reacting and Chip’s playcalling, especially when the clock becomes more of a factor. In college, the clock stops (at least temporarily) every time the refs have to move the sticks, which definitely effects a coach’s gut instinct on what plays are right for that situation. I’m sure they’re gameplanning this out and practicing these situations, but you have to think if the unfamiliarity (or at least having to think about the difference) is making him second guess himself a little bit in these scenarios. Just a thought.
Very good thought. Nobody’s calling Kelly stupid or dismissing his concepts or anything (okay, some people are), but it does stand to reason that he needs to adjust to life inside the headset in the NFL. I think he will, but again, something to keep an eye on.
there is no way in HELL henery can ever kick a 67 yard kick. Now, I think he probably misses the 50 yarder too. Kelly obviously thought so as well. which begs the question… if you dont think your kicker can hit 50 yard fgs, why is he on the team?
Please give Barkley the start and the full week of 1st team snaps
The thing that spooks me is that maybe our OL isn’t any good. That would really suck.
Yeah. Maybe Howard Mudd was a genius.
Mudd had Peters pre injury where he had the best LT performance in a decade.
Not sure how much the OL is to blame. It seems the D is loading the box and daring us to throw it. Our QB’s have to make them pay.
A big part of me wants to see Vick on IR. Let the two young QB’s play without the threat of Vick coming back. He’s obviously gone after the season. Let him finish as a mentor.
If Foles/Barkley are to succeed, they need to play.
100% of me wants this.
It’s looking like the Eagles are going to be the joke of the NFC East again this year.
Not the defense..”holding teams under 21 for weeks now
I enjoyed the Dallas game more then this crap
A couple of weeks ago, I was going to post a comment that Pat Shurmur was looking like a genius for signing on with Chip. He’d be a hot property coming off a huge offensive season. Now I’m wondering if Chip picked the right guy to integrate NFL passing concepts with his offense. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I had lots of questions about Chip today, but I do think he’s being criticized unfairly on the call to start Vick. It’s been three weeks since the injury. Vick practiced during the week immediately following the injury. He’s a veteran, and a team leader, and is saying he’s ready to play. I don’t see how you sit him. Also, both he and Vick said after the game that Vick reinjured it on the 2nd or 3rd drive. For anyone who’s ever had a hamstring injury – is it really so hard to believe that Vick might have started the game nervous about it? I don’t think it’s so easy to diagnose that Vick was in no condition to play from the TV or the stands.
Chip has made some interesting comments, though. About how it was unfortunate to waste those 1st team snaps during the week, that instability at the QB position has been a big issue, that he’s concerned that Vick felt good all week but couldn’t get through the game. Add to that Vick saying he decided he was going to play when he learned Foles was out, and that he admitted to a groin injury earlier in the season. I think Chip is going to make a change, regardless of who’s healthy.
You can tell by the lack of confidence Vick spoke with all week that he wasn’t ready….nobody believe he would get thru this game, but it’s not chips fault? He let Vicks ego play him out of getting Barkley ready to play….history just repeating itself…Chip should have been smarter then to be the fifteenth coach that needed to learn the hard way…..if you aren’t going to develope our young players, then you better be winning…we get neither
Next Sunday during game time, I think I’m just going to pop in the tape of Eagles vs Tampa and pretend I’m watching the Eagles live
Vi e un metodo per la follia
Scusi, dov’e il bagno?
It’s down the hall.
With all that alcohol you’ll be well taken care of
Sooooo, Tommy, when can we expect a post about the QBs in the NFL draft?
How do you rank Bridgewater, Mariota, Hundley, Boyd and Manziel?
First you write their names down and then put them in order of how good they are.
Love it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOmD-xqK2Es
Mariota
Bridgewater
Hundley
Manziel
Boyd
Carr
Mettenberger
Murray
did I do it right?
1. Your name is Tommy Jack Waggoner? Awesome name for a boyband! 2. How much did you have to drink tonight? Not judging, I’m hammered myself, but just wondering if I should recommend some good quality H2O and some breadsticks to suck up the alcohol.
Chinese research has shown that Sprite is the beverage of choice to avoid a hangover.
Mariota
Bridgewater
–
–
Manziel
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
Boyd
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
Hundley
Hundley isn’t ready for the NFL, should really stay in school. Has the body and the arm, but no poise, not presence, and no accuracy. If he’s there in the 2nd, maybe you take him, with the understanding that he needs to develop for at least a year.
Manziel is being underrated. If he’s there when we pick, I think we take him. Remember Chip recruited him and he almost went to Oregon.
Chip recruited him before he was outed as a me-first ego case. Not sure how that would change things. What kind of guy would Kelly want in the locker room?
Someone who can (a) lead the team to wins without getting hurt and then not really being fully honest with himself or the staff about his status, or (b) lead the team to wins without getting hurt and then not really being fully honest with himself or the staff about his status.
Wins are the great cologne.
Hundley getting too much blame for all his lineman getting injured.
Wow, Denver is choking big time. Redskins up by 14.
The home crowd, weirdly enough, played a role. You could see the boos deflating all of the offense in the first quarter or so…
Or…
The offense deflated the crowd.
No, this really was a pretty quick trigger. The second possession of the game, pretty much. But seriously, at this point, we have an anti-home advantage, and every game is a road game.
I bet if Vick had thrown it away instead of right to Antrel Rolle there wouldn’t have been as many boos. But that’s just speculation.
Hmm? Thought that was a miscommunication, Celek went one way, Vick thought he was going the other.
Very possible. Probably why there were boos.
Hon. T-Lawlor wrote:
“The offense needs a QB. That guy could be on the roster, but he hasn’t stepped forward to this point.”
Not fair as applied to Barkely . . . in the post-game PC, when asked home what percentage of practice snaps he had this week, he said “Not many; I can’t give you a percentage; but not many.”
Seems fair to argue that it’s too early to complain that Barkley’s not stepped forward yet in light of the almost complete lack of preparation Kelly’s given him.
Yes.
And not throwing the ball away on 1st and goal from the 2 when the convoluted pass play fell apart is a classic rookie mistake. Hard to both commend him for getting the team down there AND write him off for that error.
B . . .
I never argue with a man who can turn a phrase as well as you do.
Seriously, yes, Barkley failed at the GL.
But he’s been playing catch with Kelly most of the season. Even Peyton Manning turns the ball over.
As for being at the 2 yard line, Andy Reid routinely run a power play behind Peters and Mathis out a formation with the QB under center. That’s how McCoy scored many of his 17 TDs 2 years ago.
I remain perplexed by Kelly’s decision, given he had 1:14 on the clock and 1 TO.
I think we’re in agreement… sorry if it seemed like we weren’t. I’m having an off-day (caught it from the team, I guess).
I was just writing the same thing.
I had to re-read your comment a couple times . . . precisely because you’re so good at penning ironical thoughts.
You should check out the mess I made below trying to juxtapose Bob Marley and Tom Cruise in the film classic “Legend.”
I’m a nightmare!
How many reps did Barkley really even deserve to get? At this point, he’s getting reps because the other two guys are hurt, not because anyone really wants to see more of him right now.
I think that’s AC’s point, no?
no
Oh. Okay.
How reps did he deserve?
Barkley was the only other healthy QB this week, backing up a guy with a bad hamstring. Who runs for a living.
Seriously, how many did Barkley deserve?
Maybe the question should be, how many did Vick deserve given his injury and history?
Given Barkley’s performance, going back to that point, well, just how much does Barkley offer? Teams come out with gimpy QBs all the time, and they do that for good reasons. Betcha the only reason Vick started was because it was a divisional game in the first place (and Foles Flop).
It’s wasn’t even just about the QB, guys…the rest of the offense did not play that well, particularly the interior offensive line. Better performance would have made a gimpy Vick more viable, or shiny new Barkley less of a liability, because both could lean on the run game.
Shah8:
In the big picture, I don’t disagree.
Very hard to project Barkley succeeding in Kelly’s scheme right now, particularly the way the running game’s gone Edsel and lost its explosiveness the past 3.5 weeks since Vick’s injury.
But in the 6 days before this particular game, Kelly should have let Barkley get more than a handful of snaps.
Vick’s a 10-year vet. He should be able to roll out of bed on a cold November morning and deliver plays.
In fact, I remember one day in September 2010 when he did exactly that . . . with ZERO 1st-team snaps. Next thing you knew, he was the Eagles’ QB of the future.
McCoy did fine against Tampa. And the Giants shut down Adrian Peterson. Just for the record.
McCoy did fine, yes.
But that’s why I use the word “Explosiveness” to modify the phrase “running game.”
McCoy’s yards in Tampa were hard-earned. 4.9 YPC.
Before Tampa, McCoy was over 6 YPC and ripping off good runs every game.
Something is amiss.
McCoy averaged 4.8 YPC against San Diego, LESS than in Tampa. But even so, the rushing numbers they were putting up before the first Giants game were “historic.” Concluding something is wrong because they didn’t keep up that pace is a bit knee-jerk.
McCoy actually started doing better once Barkley came in the game (I assume LB’s and safeties had to worry about passes at that point). The worst runs were the “read-option” fakes (assuming no read was going on); had Barkley actually kept one or two of those, even the read-option might have resulted in springing McCoy later.
McCoy started doing better because the line blocked better. And most of the effective yards was in one drive.
In that case, the mobility of the QB was irrelevant.
It was very relevant. It determined how the tackles lined up, and gave the LBs and DEs free reign as they didn’t have to keep reading after their keys pre-snap. That was for the Eagles offense.
For a more normal offense…well, for a more normal offense, I wonder if Kelce keeps his job. I suppose for Shanahan or Kubiak, yes, but for many teams, no.
Well, really thinking about it, it still goes straight back to the lack of a viable second receiver. It’s like Carolina in the beginning of the season. A second receiver would have punished the sort of man we’re seeing. And without man, LBs have more responsibility and has to think, giving McCoy the chance to make them miss.
Easy to do that when you’re fresh.
Emmit Smith with a dislocated shoulder can run for glory.
A beatup Favre throws the game losing interception at the end (when TJack should have been in to close out).
The really big problem is that Barkley isn’t really playing better than other third stringers. Brian Hoyer and Thad Lewis vastly outperformed him.
Respectfully . . . freshness has nothing to do with being able to hit open receivers. (QBs like Sonny Jurgensen used to dice up the Eagles after spending a week drinking a keg of beer.)
What made Vick great that opening day was his legs.
That’s the quandary for Kelly.
The other 2 QBs can’t run. And Kelly’s offense — at least with this O-line and these receivers — appears best suited for a QB with Vick’s kind of leg.s
Well, I think that Vick running so much was genuinely a problem, aside from the compression of the first three days. If Vick could have found Maclin, he would have much less, and even if he hurt himself, Foles would have fared much better backing him up against non-dysfunctional teams.
And Vick got a ton of long pass plays on that opening day, too. Vick ran as much as he did that game because he had few reps, much like Joe Webb vs Detroit in ’11.
Vick hadn’t played in three weeks, so there was a risk in taking reps away from him, too. But if it Vick looked this bad in practice, then Barkley absolutely should have had more reps.
Lost in all of this is that the Najee Goode era has arrived
You know what else is pretty mediocre but I inexcusably keep coming back for more?
Pumpkin beer
I’m in the same boat! I have several a week or so at the bar and was totally, meh. Friday I bought a twelve pack! What the hell is wrong with me (us?)
I don’t know! I’ve got in-laws in town so I picked up some booze including a sixer of pumpkin… you know, to celebrate the autumnal season. After they wisely turned it down, I began drinking it out of foolish pride.
Marketing works!
Here is a different way to look at things.
It’s June and someone tells you that the team is one game out of first place after 8 games and is 2-2 in the division. The defense has given up 17 and 15 points in the last two games.
Not too bad, huh?
I like that – in this scenario – the visitor from the future only shares Eagles news. I’d be like, “Hey, how about some stock tips, bro???” But he’d just offer coy, oracle-style nuggets about the team like, “Foles will lead the team from the bench,” and “Acho will be back-o.”
And then you ask, “So, how long ’till we finally win the SB?” and he responds, “That is the last great unanswered question in my age. That, and why women don’t just say what they mean.”
Then he jumps on his hoverboard and rides off into the sunset.
One thing that has to be said about Chip that hasn’t been said–
His attempt to do an onside kick was the correct one. The best time to do an onside kick is when it is relatively unexpected. Furthermore, part of the deal was trying to get a shorter field for the offense should they recover.
It’s not exactly “unexpected” when you line up in an onside recover formation. Had they gone with a trick play onside kick I would have been more inclined to agree with you but there was no surprise element involved, it gave the Giants a short field to work with, giving them a great chance at getting an additional 3 points and putting the game to a two possession game, and then finally, it gave us *worse* field position rather than better field position. Definitely was the wrong decision.
The Giants had their hands-team on the field, right?
Yep – hands-team it was
You changed the channel, didn’t you? It’s okay, be honest.
yup, I certainly did, and watched competitive football.
Understand about the hands team, but I think the field position was better got among all probabilities by doing an onside kick. Eeeh, there wasn’t any real right way to play this, but I don’t think this was a true wrong way to do it.
You’re a moron.
Oh look, someone who think calling other people names has more value than a queef…
Whew. Denver is ahead again. All is right in the world.
I’m pretty sure Moreno did some voodoo magic on Shady after he tweeted that Moreno thing.
When Moreno scored on the screen, I thought the same thing. Shady caused some bad karma with that tweet,
Megatron almost broke the single game receiving yard record.
Marvin Jones and his TD catches has outscored us in the past 2 weeks.
Dez Bryant crying and the Cowgirls lost.
A team that could shake up the draft, the Falcons.
Glass half-full, half empty:
Half-full:
– 1 back in the NFC East
– 3-5 (2-2) overall after 8 games
– Offensive stats overall despite injuries to Vick and Foles
– Solid defense since the Denver debacle
– Road play
Half-empty:
– Offensive performance past few weeks
– Pass defense
– Kelly’s clock management and game-management
– QB carousel
– Home play
I am still a glass half-full guy given my low expectations headed into the season. Today was really the first time all season though that the Eagles lost a game they should have won against a terrible team.
All good points.
I would say – in terms of losing a game they should have won – I’m not sure even that applies once we turn things over to our 3rd string, rookie QB.
3rd string, rookie QB coming in cold off the bench!
3rd string, rookie QB coming in cold off the bench, at the Linc!
RGIII yet another interception! As poor as the Eagles are playing, at leas I can see 2 out of 3 of the other NFC Least teams lose!
Yeah, it is just a shame one of them got to play against us.
And I realize that there were no other QBs on the bench, but the option for Foles to run was wide open EVERY TIME he handed the ball off. When your team is starved for yards and 1st downs, it’s time to take some chances!
I mean really, could the emergency QB have done any worse?
Barkley played today. All dem crackas be lookin alike.
To answer your point. QBs aren’t supposed to run because they aren’t supposed to put themselves in jeopardy. See Mike Vick for the reason why.
qbs like everyone else should do what it takes to win. if peyton and brady can lumber for 5 yards foles and barkely shouldn’t bee too good for that especially when they can’t throw.
Others brought it up but the boo birds were out really early today and were loud quite often.
I know the team was tough to watch today (and really boring) but this crowd is reminding me more and more of the crowd at the Big House during UM games.
Overly critical and very easy to quiet down at the first sign of things going wrong. Only difference is that you don’t hear the kind and level of boos at UM games.
Bobby April sighting in the Raiders/Steelers game…
Eagles tied the NFL consecutive losses at home record today (10 consecutive) and if they lose in 3 weeks to the Skins it will set an NFL record.
I think if Kelly pulls out the same game plan that blew up Washington in Game 1, the way he apparently used the same game plan against the G-men that put up 36 points, the Eagles are sure to win.
The old “score more points than the opponent” game plan? That is a pretty solid one…
I’ll leave it to our friendly, neighborhood “All-22” analysts to really dig in (and destroy hours of potential productivity later in the week), but I did notice one play that we used against Washington that the Giants were prepared for.
Barkley time, in the 4th. We lined up with a bunch set, trips to the left. Barkley faked the screen to DJax and was looking to hit Avant streaking up the seam. The safety was helping over the top, so Barkley didn’t throw… and instead took the sack.
Obviously only one play, but the Giants didn’t bite on the fake bubble… probably because despite throwing a lot of them, we weren’t exactly gashing them with it.
Just re-reading my gold (ha!), a thought occurred to me – am I insane? Actually, it’s about adjustments.
Kelly’s offense is predicated on multiple options out of a specific look… so once you start having success with one element (e.g. – “bubble screens”), you hit them when they overreact (e.g. – “seam pass out of the bubble screen set”). All of that seems to work off the assumption that you have success with one of the elements… but what if you don’t?
This is a long and rambling way of wondering how quickly and successfully can Kelly adapt when nothing seems to be working?
To the partially naked eye (in-laws in town so I couldn’t be fully naked), it seemed like the Giants were spreading wide to limit bubble screens and McCoy / Brown outside zone runs. Maybe working the middle with Avant and/or stretching them with a couple deep throws would’ve opened up the edges more. I honestly don’t know, but it did seem like trying the same set of plays over and over wasn’t yielding anything.
Maybe this is all moot if you can’t make those sorts of changes with Barkley off the bench…
Baloophi:
It’s only a matter of time until trying the same, unsuccessful thing yields different, better results.
Try, try, and try again. Eventually, the results will be different.
You just must keep trying.
Marty, Andy? I missed you guys.
Part of the problem with the ‘nothing working’ has to do with Maclin going down. Other than DJax, the rest of the WRs aren’t much of a threat. LBs are faster than Cooper and Avant. We need a 2nd WR that is a significant threat where man coverage is a risky proposition. Right now, double DJax with the deep safety and the rest of the guys are just that. Just a guy…
Good point… I hadn’t even thought of Maclin until they showed him today sitting next to Vick.
It does seem like Ertz should be able to handle some middle-of-the-field duties, a la Witten. Barkley missed him wide-open in a play eerily reminiscent of Hank Baskett wide open across the middle on the penultimate play of the NFCCG in Arizona, but there were a couple other plays today where Ertz seemed to be readily covered by an LB… hmm…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_(team)#Losses
says the Cowboys and Rams both lost 14 in a row.
I stand corrected. I just heard it on the radio in the 5th quarter. Thanks.
Cut Vick, sign Tebow. You’d win more games, as much as I’d hate the circus that would ensue. Tebow is killer in the read-option.
…runs and seeks shelter…
No.
“NO.”
Just like that?
No discussion, no conversation?
Hmmm.
We’re a family here. These sorts of issues should be talked through.
No, please?
No, thank you.
Ditto re: my reply to Baloophi
Because in my current, weakened state I just might be convinced.
Ditto your ditto AC
C’mon.
What’s better than arguing whether a stiff like Tebow should QB the Eagles?
Has their ever been an NFL division winner with a record worse than .500?
Seattle in 2010 were 7-9 NFC West champions.
In 2010, Seattle nosed out the (LA) Rams for the NFC West at 7-9.
The beauty of that was Seattle got a home play-off game as a result against the wildcard Saints at 11-5.
And Seattle won.
For the Eagles, the worst thing they could do is win the division.
They’ll get a home game in Rd 1 of the playoffs.
Mail that loss in.
Damn you.
No cursing on T-Law’s site.
And we get a swing of draft position of around ten spots because a play off team will at worst/best get the 21st spot where a 7-9 record would draft around 10 th
Their home crowd lends psychic support. Same as KC’s crowd.
This game was all on Chip. How about having Barkley pull it back just once instead of keep giving it to Shady. It was wide open cuz the giants knew it was going to Shady. Barkley easily would have 15 yards and it would have opened things up for the run game!! And why do you go for it on 4th and 10 in the 2nd qtr but not 4th and 4 in the 4th when it really matters!!! And an onside kick with 4 mins left with a time out and 2 min warning left?? U got to be kidding me. Kick it deep and rely on your D!! They were playing a good game!! I have given Chip the benefit of the doubt up til now, but his coaching style is seeming to mesh in the NFL!!
That being said this was my first visit to the Linc traveling from CA. What an awesome place and the fans were the best!!
It is a great experience.
Barkley was the only QB left after Vick went out. I don’t think Chip wanted 300lb lineman falling on top of him to gain 4 yards on a read option. Barkley also ran a 4.9 40 at his pro day, he’s slow as hell.
Repeat after me, this is a rebuilding year.
this is a rebuilding year
I really don’t like how both Baloophi and xlGmanix show such total disrespect to Roseman.
Roseman’s on record saying the Eagles are just retooling. Not rebuilding.
Shame on you both. Shame, shame, shame.
Now go to your rooms and sit in the corner.
Can we all agree on “redecorating”? I know Cary Williams can…
Semantics. Still, it was foolish for the FO to not make that clear this year and lower expectations for themselves this year in a year where most of the fan base would have expected that.
It is always better to under promise & over deliver than vice versa.
The disappointment stems not from FO promises but from a single magical half against Washington.
You mean “not only” from FO promises…
Wish I could ^ this more than one time
This is a rebuil – WAIT!
Red and blue?! “Gman” between the fancy x and line thingies?!
It is a trap! It is a trap!
Don’t say it! It just like in Labyrinth! You won’t trick me Mr. Bowie!
A_T_G:
You’ve hit on it.
This was a trap game for the “retooling” Eagles. Damn.
Labyrinth is a great pull, A_T_G.
One of us lies, and one of us always tells the truth…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dgmgub8mHw
It’s a trap!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
Nobody – from Lurie on down – has used this term once
I understand the criticism of Chip’s game management, but in terms of the system, I still encourage patience. I still believe that Chip is teaching his system and is less focused on putting in opponent-specific wrinkles at this point. It stand to reason that those teams, with established systems and more time to tinker, will be able to be more effective as the year goes on.
Add to that the fact that Chip only had the QB he was expecting one out of the last 4 games – finished with Foles in NY, had Foles as expected in TB, Jimmy K. sneaked on to the field in Foles uniform against Dallas, and Barkley finished today – and the teaching an timing gets that much tougher.
Be patient, stay the course, and study college prospects.
Tough loss, horrible day, but I think we need to put it in perspective. Donovan McNabb was 10-31 for 129 yards in his 20th game, a 24-7 loss to the Giants. In Eli Manning’s 3rd game, he was 6-21-148 in a 27-6 loss to the Eagles. Matt Barkley has 2 career games, no starts. The Eagles have had their starting QB leave the game with an injury in 3 of the last 4 games. Buffalo, Cleveland, and Houston (all with 5 losses) are the other teams that have had to go to their 3rd stringer, Barkley being the only rook. This is a very difficult spot for any coach/team and it’s way too soon to draw any conclusions.
That’s a very level-headed view.
I’m afraid, however, that regarding this band of Eagles’ QBs, the standard is not so elastic.
The correct standard is whether the Rookie (or a guy with 8 starts) plays like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning during the 7-year period running from 2003-2010 — or even like a QB with 10-years’ experience.
We’re re-tooling here. Not re-building. Can’t have rookies (or guys with 8 starts) making mistakes at the QB spot in that situation.
It’s about winning NOW.
Hence, you need an experienced QB like Tebow, right AC? Just kidding, but more than a little desperate right now.
Is this sarcasm?
It is.
They’re ‘rebuilding’ but just won’t use that word. Not with as much roster overall as they had this offseason and implementing completely new schemes on defense and offense.
stop with the happy talk about how great chip is….he made a bunch of Kotite decisions today with Kotite explanations….he seems to be a weasel to me…he can’t recruit his way out of this league…may be Not For Long for your boy Tommy.
A weasel… or a snake?
ATTN: ACViking
HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT
Normally, after a game like this, I’d call upon your infinite wisdom to familiarize the assembled laity with an Eagles team that also lost a lot of games in a row at home.
However, I have a different request: get yourself an avatar! It’s not that hard, and it’s a great way to personalize your online visage… unless you happen to resemble a gray, neckless blob…
I’m open to recommendations . . . sans neckless blobs.
A Norse warrior cooling off in the comfort of a window unit.
Nice.
Here’s something that appeared when I typed “eagle viking” into the search engine…
I think it’s a Dodge.
No thanks.
I don’t know what’s going on here, but for some reason I think you could explain it…
Some throwback action…
Not sure what this is… Leonard Tose’s personal ride, perhaps?
A fellow man of the law, who knows a thing or two about history?
B . . .
You’ve been white-hot today. Whatever you’ve been drinking . . . don’t stop.
I’ve moved from pumpkin to Ommegang Quadrupel… it’s like going from Freddie Mitchell to DeSean Jackson
I’ll send you a case so you can have it every Sunday
Please… make this happen.
Here’s one that’s totally not frightening…
It came up when I google Imaged “ACViking”. *shrug*
Oh, and at no extra cost . . . .
The 1972-73 Eagles went 9 games in a row without a win. There was a tie, however, in 1972.
Next closest is 5 straight losses at home by the ’68-’69 Eagles . . . a truly dreadful group that make the 1998 Eagles look like the 2007 Patriots.
I knew you’d come through…
This made me sad.
This is how I imagine him…
Amazing! Make it so, AC!
If you objectively look at the landscape of the NFL today, there are very few franchises I’d be willing to trade for the Eagles right now.
Seattle, SF, NOLA, Carolina, Green Bay, Detroit, *maybe* Arizona, in the NFC. Every other team is old, injury-prone, has no cap space, or is missing draft picks on account of trades. A lot mediocrity.
In the AFC, Denver, Indianapolis, KC, Cincy and….maybe Tennessee? Maybe Oakland? Maybe Cleveland? I’m not just looking at records, but overall direction, management, etc. NE looks good now, but that team seems to be skating on thin ice.
In other words, a lot of teams have a lot of problems – QBs, age, salary cap….
Eagles aren’t in bad shape in the big picture. Let things develop this year, and lets get psyched for an entertaining offseason. Hopefully we move some assets by Tuesday.
Compare to the Phillies, who are probably in the bottom 5 in terms of MLB franchises at this point.
I will trade for the pats where do I sign up?
That window is almost closed shut.
Brady looks banged up. What happens when he goes down? They haven’t drafted well. Belichek will always be Belichek obviously. But at this moment, I’d be hesitant to make the trade.
The window is open. This is an easy trade.
Problem is that a lot of those teams have a SB in their history. We don’t. You also listed almost have of the teams in the NFL…
The mighty Chip Kelly led Philadelphia Eagles offense is tied with the dynamic offensive due of Andy Reid/Alex Smith of the K.C. Chiefs for 13th in PPG…
Last thing I’m worried about is Chip Kelly, but I don’t know how you can run Shady in such a situation where he’s coming out of a shotgun all of the time. At the two yard line there, you need an I-formation run the ball up the gut sure fire TD, not a pass play out of the shotgun. All the plays where Barkley could’ve ran the ball, it looked so open, but who knows. Someone called WIP and said Tim Tebow would run this offense great….LMAO…whoa! Slow down there crazy talk.
if the play worked no one cares. i’m ok with his calls. he said it’s something theyd practice for months — barkely blew it. How someone that’s started at every level has game day jitters is beyond me. I’m ok with the onside kick gotta be aggressive and hope for the short field. Offense wasn’t moving the ball — these are the things that we wanted from CK.
Who do you guys consider part of the “core” of this team? In other words, you expect them to still be part of a successful eagles team in two years. 2015.
Lane Johnson, Zach Ertz, Fletcher Cox and Brandon Boykin are probably the only 4 “no brainers.”
Likely parts of the core would be Cedrick Thornton, Mychal Kendricks, Jason Kelce, LeSean McCoy.
Next tier is guys like Earl Wolff, DeSean Jackson (who will be getting old for a guy relying on his speed), Bennie Logan, Bradley Fletcher (who is still young).
I’m not saying guys that aren’t listed above won’t be on the team, but they may be considered more expendable than we think (wouldn’t surprise me if Peters, Mathis, Maclin are all still playing then either), or positions that we want to upgrade and/or get younger.
The point is, there are a bunch of legacy guys on this team still, that aren’t necessarily Chip’s guys, and the roster is going to look a lot different in one year, and even more different in two years.
So its hard to get too upset at how this current group is playing. I think Chip wants a team that looks like the Seahawks. This would be pretty awesome.
Way too soon to put Ertz in the no-brainer group.
Can we put him in the no-hands group?
I kid! I kid! Kinda…
frankly if the rest of the season is like this i hope no one is safe.
What, pissed? Us? Nawwww.
The vikings are playing even worse, to my chagrin. Horrible game day for me.
after watching the poor qb play for 2 weeks in a row, it’s becoming more evident that qb should be our #1 target. Vick is very skilled but flawed. Foles seems inconsistent. Barkley is not ready. He has moments where he definitely looks like he belongs but looks pedestrian at others. He may pan out to be a decent qb (foles may too) but chip needs to find a qb. Can you really afford to give one of these guys a shot next year. There is still a lot of season left, so maybe someone steps up and takes the job but that is looking highly unlikely right now, especially if vick is starting when healthy. So the question becomes, how much would you give up to move up in the draft?
i wanted vick. but i almost think we should just start matt. bunch of glass jawed qbs.
any chance kelly is secretly tanking the season knowing he cant make it anywhere with his current qbs…because the offence is starting to look quite predictable already and i dont think that should be happening so soon….
i think that whats going on. lorie knows how to make the team good enough to break your heart every single sunday. personally i’m happy he’s hearing the boos every week for the second season in a row. maybe it’ll encourage him to do some things to improve the team.