Happy, But Not Satisfied

Posted: December 1st, 2013 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 181 Comments »

The Eagles are 7-5. They are 6-2 in the last 8 games. The defense hasn’t let anyone score more than 21 points in that stretch. The QB has the highest rating in the NFL. Life is pretty good.

There are still concerns.

But that’s okay. We knew all along this was a flawed football team. Chip Kelly wasn’t going to come in here and solve everything all at once. And let’s consider the problem right now…the Eagles are able to build big leads, but not sustain them. All in all, that’s a good problem for a first year coach.

The funny thing here is that part of what got Andy Reid fired is that his team was building leads and then losing them altogether. Kelly is still winning games. He’s just not making it very pretty at the end.

The Eagles had some chances to put today’s game away. There was a PR for TD that a penalty negated. There was a long run that got the team into FG range that a penalty negated. Dumb mistakes. You can bet that Kelly and the staff will be working to clean them up.

Part of being a good team is finding a way to win. Last week Brandon Boykin had the pick in the end zone. This week the D got the Cardinals to go 4 and out and then the offense did just enough to run out the clock. It wasn’t pretty, but it was winning football.

I’m curious to see what the ceiling is for this team. They had a 24-0 lead last week. They were up 24-7 on Sunday. The Eagles look pretty darn good in building up those leads. If this team can somehow start to play complete games, they’ll look pretty good. I don’t know if that will happen this year, but I’ll certainly keep my fingers crossed.

One thing that is encouraging is the play of the front seven. They had 5 sacks today and got regular pressure on Carson Palmer. I wrote on Saturday about Trent Cole and the LBs being on the rise. Cole had 2 sacks and a FF. Brandon Graham had 2 sacks. DeMeco Ryans had a sack and played the run well.

We know the DL is good. If the LBs start to turn it on, that will be another big piece to the puzzle. Cole now has 5 sacks in the last 4 games. He told Chris McPherson that he’d figured something out about playing in the 3-4. I had my doubts about that, but he was a force off the edge today. It would be great if Cole really did figure something out and he can play at a high level for the last month.

I need to watch the tape before saying too much about the OL giving up 5 sacks. That’s not good, but it helps to see why things happened to understand them. I know Lane Johnson gave up one sack to Abraham due to over-setting to the outside and leaving himself vulnerable to an inside move. I do know that Foles had good enough blocking to throw 3 TDs and finish with a rating of 112.o.

The one upside to all of this is that the Eagles can’t get complacent. Everybody will stay a bit on edge due to the tight finishes. That could serve Kelly well as he tries to keep his team focused and hungry down the stretch.

_


  • SteveH

    Tommy, you foresaw Nate Allen getting an interception this week, tell us what hoodoo you are consorting with so that we may know its power.

    • P_P_K

      Nate has been playing so much better. I wonder if it has anything to do with confidence in his injury recovery.

      • Mac

        Probably has something to do with that, but even more so with having coaches and a scheme he can buy into this year. He has let the coaches mold him into what they want him to be (to at least some extent).

      • theycallmerob

        you mean, not playing the run first behind a wide 9 with coleman next to you and a stable of ineffective DBs might actually make Nate look better? no…..

      • BlindChow

        Alas, Casey Matthews still appears to be a lost cause…

    • phillychuck

      On the prediction thread was Ertz having a break-out day, Allen INT, and Trent Cole getting multiple sacks.

      I seriously need lottery advice…

  • sprawl

    Foles made some good plays under pressure but made some bad throws without pressure when things stalled out into the 3rd. Think the 5 sacks and a bunch of hits got him rattled/jumpy throwing him off a bit?

    I’d kind of like to see the numbers for Hits / Sacks compared to his other games

    • ICDogg

      The O-line was pretty bad for a while there. Hard to work under such conditions.

    • Mac

      I saw that play as Nick being frustrated and feeling the need to make something happen for the offense.

      • JJ_Cake

        Not frustrated, I didn’t see that; but I agree, he seemed to have that “Brett Favre” thing where he felt like he had to force a play to make something happen.

        Just stay cool and take the sack Nick. God that was a potential game changer if the Cards had good field position with how their offense was starting to click.

        I think we were lucky that the refs saw a penalty that wiped out that INT.

        • BlindChow

          The disturbing thing is even Eagles fans and writers are suggesting the call was questionable. That makes me think we got really lucky, not just standard lucky.

          • Igglez

            But the replay showed Mathieu holding the crap out of Avant. That still is no excuse for Foles’ prayer ball, but it was a legitimate penalty

    • BlindChow

      Reminded me of how he looked in Dallas. Seems like a lot of throws were off. Made me wonder if his head got knocked on one of those hits.

      Hopefully it doesn’t undo the improvements the hit on him in Dallas made.

  • TheRogerPodacter

    anyone else having problems loading the comments to the “first thoughts” post? Disqus is hating on me right now : /

    • ICDogg

      yep

    • phillychuck

      Me 2. Won’t load at all.

    • Spooonius

      Same here

    • laeagle

      Easy answer: geagle/mediamike overload. Those internal dialogues can weigh down a comment system pretty hard.

    • Anders

      Clear your cache and cookies or see if you have an extension blocking it

    • A Roy

      It loads on my Windows 8 laptop, but not on my Droid Razr. On the phone, I get the last two comments and cannot load the rest. Gotta be something new with Disqus.

      • Anders

        on mobile devices you get the top 2 comments and then have to press view discussion.

        • A Roy

          Thanks, but I tried that. I dunno, my phone’s getting “old.” I’ve had it more than two years. :-)

        • Andy124

          Our computers are just trying to protect us from some of the comments in there.

          • BlindChow

            I did post Vick’s red zone numbers yesterday.

          • Andy124

            lol. We may need protection from those. Nick had another redzone posession end in a kneel down yesterday, artificially de-yeasting his numbers.

          • Michael Winter Cho

            maybe our computers are biased against running QBs with strong arms.

          • Andy124

            Mr. Eight was certainly doing his thing over there.

  • P_P_K

    I hope the Eagles are also not satisfied. Stay hungry, young men.

  • Rambler

    I am happy for the win over a decent team, and I certainly did not expect the Eagles to be in this position at this point in the season. So I am maybe being greedy when I say I am still a bit disappointed in how this team plays with a lead in the second half. I know they are still improving and developing, but something is just off in the late stages of these games. I think it is a combination of things, including sketchy play calling and poor execution. But if they clean this up, and get 1-2 more athletes on each side of the ball, they really can be a dominating team. Excited for what the future holds, and I definitely have not felt that way in years about this team.

  • ICDogg
    • Insomniac

      Uhhh…..uhhh..we need to score until the game is over?!

    • mtn_green

      Palmer is really a hack that was pulled off his couch last year by the hapless raiders.

    • fran35

      That 8 men in the box > 5 men blocking and one RB who loves to dance.

    • theycallmerob

      Chung hates the color green?

      • BlindChow

        The Eagles were wearing the black jerseys. Maybe he got confused.

        • theycallmerob

          maybe that’s why he spent so much time tackling the grass

  • jackpotsdad

    I think you have it right Tommy. This is a flawed team. We seem to lack a bruising time killing back that will just run North-South. Shady is a great back but that isn’t what he does best. Maybe Polk could be that guy? Also, we don’t have corners that will defense plays – they’ll make the tackle after the catch but they’re exactly the sort that will be vulnerable to long passing attacks late in the game.

    Given all these mismatched pieces, I am absolutely ecstatic that the Eagles are 1 win away from being no worse than .500 for the season. Also, the team is the fourth or fifth youngest team in the league. There’s no doubt that with a draft or two and growth from some of the youngsters that this team will be very strong.

    • anon

      I dont agree w/ the point about the corners fletch has probably the most PDs per game, Sonces allows passes but not TDs.

  • Mitchell

    Is it possible that our recent half time woes are simple the result of random chance? Or maybe the players becoming complacent with leafs and getting sloppy?

    On another note, I’m getting extremely excited about Nate Allen. Can you imagine 2 more interceptions coming from him this year!?

    • BlindChow

      I think Allen is doing well, too. I keep seeing people mention getting Byrd next year, but there’s no way the Eagles are signing him for that much money (demand will be high) when Allen and Wolff both look as good as they have.

      • Mitchell

        Agreed. I think we are in a terrific position going into the draft where there is no need to pick for need. That being said there are obvious places to upgrade but nothing so glaring we would ruin a draft just to get ‘The One.”
        I don’t like the idea of spending a large sum of money on an older player especially because we aren’t the classical “one piece away” team.

    • fran35

      As excited as I am to see Allen play, I am scared as hell when Chung is out there. The guy is horrible. Can’t get Wolff back soon enough

      • Mitchell

        maybe we are just being spoiled by the more than competent play of Allen and Wolffe.

  • Vick or Nick

    We keep asking for a North-South runner.

    We have one on the roster.
    Chris Polk.

    #FreePolk

    • Mac

      Is his shoulder ok?

  • JJ_Cake

    Like Tommy pointed out in his earlier thread, Nick proved he’s human. It was a pretty good game for him overall, but the INT gods are looming large over him. Djax and Coop saved two INTs and we got lucky the Cards were called for holding on probably the worst decision I’ve seen Nick make since the Dallas game. Hope he stays focused on making good decisions and taking the sack when his protection falls apart like it did several times today.

    I think it’s important for us to remember that we were playing a top 5 defense today. The Cardinals have some superior players all over that D. Kudos to the Eagles for getting the win.

    I didn’t like Chip’s wildcat call in the red zone. The penalties were a shame as well. It will be interesting to learn what you find from the tape Tommy. Looks like AZ’s game plan was to take out McCoy and Djax. Coop too, they did a good job.

    The D made some boneheaded mistakes, but held at the end; another good job.

    And what a punter Jones is! Great to see the pieces coming together.

    (LOL, a lot of Cardinal fans are crying boo hoo about the last holding penalty on their DLman. I was hoping to see our Offense get a TD, but a wins a win; there were plenty of bad calls to go around. The better team won)

    • jackpotsdad

      I think that Cards fans have a somewhat of a legitimate beef that the ref calls in the last two minutes cost them the game. Then again, if you don’t put away a team decisively, you leave your team vulnerable to exactly those sorts of situations.

      The refs didn’t commit 3 turnovers, allowed 5 sacks or prevent the Eagles from scoring 24 points. At the end of the day, that’s what counts.

      • BlindChow

        Eh, missed calls on the Cards earlier in the game kept them in the game to begin with. (PI on a Riley Cooper pass for one.)

        I’d say it balances out, but probably only because we won.

    • Mitchell

      In regards to some of the stupid penalties we are getting. Could it be due to the youth on the team? Food for thought.

      • aub32

        I wouldn’t exactly say Kurt Coleman and Jason Avant are youths making young guy mistakes. Their two penalties cost us most.

        • Mitchell

          That’s my mistake. I didn’t know who they were called on.

    • xlGmanlx

      WR’s “save” INT’s every week in the NFL, some bad decisions? Absolutely, but certainly the norm not the exception.

      • JJ_Cake

        I guess I was remembering that pass from Vick to Cooper in the 2011 playoffs vs. Cooper at the end of the game. Cooper was a rookie I guess, but should’ve stopped that game ending INT.

        I also thought it was pretty clutch for Djax to breakup a potential INT to Peterson.

        • fran35

          While DJAX did save the int, it actually looked like he was battling for the ball and almost pulled it away. Either way, this is a new wrinkle to his game and we all welcome it.

    • A_T_G

      Paraphrasing, but in the post game interview Chip said, “We do not run the wildcat, lets get that clear. We were just running a play where Brad was the quarterback and Nick was a wide receiver.” That made me smile.

      • BlindChow

        It didn’t look any different than the Eagles’ standard zone-read play. If we had run a RO play there with Nick no one would have said anything. In this case, they actually had a guy who could run fast doing it.

        • RobNE

          but why put Foles outside where he can get hit. There is no way he is coming all the way across to get a handoff and throw a pass.

          But I’m biased, I don’t like the call at all.

          • BlindChow

            Outside receivers don’t get hit on read option runs. That close to the goal line, they don’t even need to block. They’re just there to keep a corner “occupied” along the sideline so they can’t get to a runner in time.

            I don’t know. This happens every time a coach runs some sort of non-standard play that fails: everyone is up in arms. But when they work, no one cares how unusual it was.

          • theycallmerob

            everyone’s a great coach, didn’t you know?

          • Anders

            Also they put Patrick Peterson on Foles. I take that any day of the week.

          • JJ_Cake

            Yeah, I didn’t think we needed any gimmicks at that point. The O was in control and driving well.

            But we wouldn’t have complained if Brad got a TD. Too bad he muffed the snap so we couldn’t see how the play would’ve run.

    • theycallmerob

      you mean this non-hold?

      • Spooonius

        Thank you for posting that. I thought it was pretty obvious at the time, but apparently not.

    • Stephen Stempo

      So are we applying the Gambler’s Fallacy here? The idea that because something has not happened that it is Due to happen? I don’t think INT’s work like that.

      Also, I’m lazy, I’m not going to go through NFL history and break down all the int’s that “should have been.” That’s only even relevant because Foles hasn’t done it this year yet so people are now looking for it. Every week there’s probably a dozen “should have been ” Int’s. There’s a reason CB’s are not WR’s.

  • xlGmanlx

    Credit to the Cards front 7, but the OL gave up way too much pressure, on the regular. I am still not sold on Kelce as the center and I think between him and Todd, they cause issues holding up in pass pro. Just my uninformed eye balls talking

  • ICDogg

    The Cards were a team on a hot streak who felt they were in a must-win situation but also felt that this was a game they could win and be playoff-bound.

    The Cards felt that they had one of the best, if not the best, defenses in the NFL. They also felt that their offense was starting to come together, sort of the way we have felt that our defense is coming together.

    This game put them in a position where a lot of things will now have to break in their favor going forward for them to have a chance at the playoffs.

    So I don’t think we should underestimate being able to beat such a team with something to prove, even in this less-than-satisfying fashion.

    • Lewwyn

      I agree completely. I think it’s fine not to be satisfied with the final performance of the offense down the stretch, but we have to realize that we just beat a good team with a top defense in a playoff situation. Get happy.

    • anon

      Agree — huge must win game for us and I think our first win over a “playoff team”. I think Eagles are a lot more legit to outsiders than we were before. I don’t think you can make an argument for us not being legit at this point.

      I just love watching us play on offense and defense. I love watching the D line get after it — Cole starting to get his sacks up — Meco is a BEAST game after game. Secondary makes at least a handful of big plays each game — Scones looks terrible and makes a HUGE play every game. Even Nate Allen with the pick looking like he wants to stay an Eagle next year. CK has to be coach of the year. Given the pieces we had last year and the general how divided the team was last year. Couldn’t be more proud of the group.

  • ICDogg

    • ICDogg

      meh, this gif is not posting right

      • anon

        Dont need a gif to remember the Riley 1 handed + the spin move — he’s been watching too much madden.

      • BlindChow

        Hmm. Maybe disqus made some changes to the way it handles pics…

  • Steag209

    Idk why everyone seems to be so pissy after this game. These are the kinds of games good teams win, very rarely do you get 4 solid, smart quarters from coaches, players, refs, or whoever else people think influence games. I’m happy the D picked up the O, like the O picked up the D after Chung decided, again, that tackling our own player is a better strategy than tackling the ball carrier. Yes, the talent isn’t ideal on D, yes Foles is a youngin and still learning as he goes, and yes Chip is still figuring out how an NFL game is properly coached, but we didn’t win today because of “luck”. If anything, the Cardinals were even in the game in the first place because of luck. I’m the type of person who, after every game/match I’ve ever been involved in, has looked at what I did wrong and how I screwed up and tried to fix them regardless of the outcome, but you also have to look t what you did right so you can figure out how to repeat it against different people and different strategies. The biggest thing though is figuring out hat pieces you have and doing your best MacGyver impression every single day in practice and in games, so what annoys me the most is the fans moaning and whining about the players we DON’T have instead of talking about and figuring out the weapons we do have and how Chip is using them. As fans, I know it’s our job to freak out, but for the love of God people, we just beat arguably the best defense in the league and made it look easy at times, enjoy the em exceeding our expectations for once because next year the bar will be raised and it won’t be as fun winning games like these

    • anon

      I hear you. But our offense shut down against the Cards (good D) and the Skins (bad D) so hard to draw conclusions.

    • BlindChow

      People are pissy because they hate seeing a team that plays so well in the first half completely lose their mojo in the second.

      And some of us don’t have the heart strength to endure many more 4th quarters like the last two.

  • Anders

    Can somebody tell me. Was Ashley Fox always a crappy writer before she came to ESPN? I think she just wrote a piece challenging Mike Freeman or Jason La Canfora for dumbest article written about Chip Kelly.

    • Stevo

      She was arguably the worst writer here in Philly in her time. I actually think she has improved since moving to ESPN.

      • Anders

        That is scary

      • Lewwyn

        Agreed.

    • Spooonius

      yes, she was always pretty bad.

  • GermanEagle

    I really hope that the Interception Gods who are looming over St. Nick will have mercy until after the game against the Lions, when we could probably get away with a couple of picks against the Vikings.

    • A Roy

      How was watching the game in NY?

    • anon

      I just want one more TD to give him the record. Nick Manning!

      • Anders

        I want 2 more, just for the haters to come out in full force and proclaim that everybody can that.

  • A Roy

    7-5 in a rebuilding year and we’re looking for style points. Be happy with the “W”, folks. As Tommy says, we would’ve lost this game last year.

    • anon

      You’re right, but 2 games in a row it’s worrying. Frankly our D is better than its been in YEARS. People were talking about how good card’s D is you gotta believe that we played better than them today.

      I think at this point we have a top 15 offense and defense. We give up lots of yards but we get stops and takeaways like i haven’t seen. It’ll be a shame if we don’t get into the playoffs and capitalize b/c everyone is going to be gunning for us next year.

      • Stephen Stempo

        It’s “slightly worrying” This seems like a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. AZ still has a good D, and they were bound to stop us here and there. Watching the game the eagles were clearly the better team.. which is nice.

        I’ll start worrying about it when we start losing.

        I’m not convinced it’s anything more than coincidence (those things do happen, not everything is cause and effect).

      • eagleyankfan

        Why worry? It’s all gravy right now. This isn’t Chips final product and with 0 expectations this year … this is all gravy….

  • bdbd20

    I do wonder how many teams will use the Cards 2nd half strategy going forward. it seems that they played man and just loaded the box.

    Now, they have two guys that can cover (Peterson, Honey Badger). If Chip is as good as advertised, he’ll come up with something to counter this.

    Overall, it should be a nice learning experience.

    • anon

      What’d the Chiefs, Broncos, etc. do? Play man and load the box. We’ve had trouble with it all year and if that long ball is not hitting then it’s game over.

      • bdbd20

        KC may be the only other team in the league (now that Seattle has issues) that has the personnel to do this.

        Maybe the bomb returns if teams start doing this.

      • Anders

        It worked for the Chiefs and Broncos because we had Vick as the QB. Teams have found out that man coverage does not work when the QB can throw the guy open and most teams do not have a Patrick Peterson to cover Jackson.

        • anon

          Seems like it’s also working against Foles — i think we’ve been trying to win with the over-the top game which works against a slower secondary. I’ll give it a kind of pass b/c AZ has one of the best secondaries in the league — but washington doesn’t. It’s crazy to me that we’ve been shut out in the last 1.5 quarters of each game.

          • Anders

            But both Washington and Arizona played plenty man coverage before the last 1.5 quarters. The Raiders and Packers also tried it.

            For me the problem is simply that we are handing off more even into 7 and 8 man boxes. Before we try to bleed the clock, 7 and 8 man boxes is almost 100% a pass play, but when we have the huge lead, we try to into that.

          • anon

            Yeah our run game is ugly since Vick left — i think the read option is clutch for sustaining a run game. I really want BB to be the north south power runner — he’s my favorite back — i miss watching him bust runs. Wonder if they’d put him out wide for a bubble screen or stacked play since he loves running near the sideline.

          • Daniel Spector

            BB by himsefl ended a drive in the 2ndQ with that 6 yard loss. I’m done with him

          • fran35

            Yeah, he is frustrating. I think I am ready for more Polk. At this point, our starting running back is a risk taking high rish/reward runner. We don’t need the number two guy to be that way as well. I would rather have a guy who puts his head down and gets you three tough yards instead of the guy who bounces it outside every handoff, drifting deeper and deeper outside and behind the line of scrimmage.(BB)

          • BlindChow

            The thing is, those are sweep plays, so he’s supposed to go East-West to get around the edge. In yesterday’s case there was a defender right there, so the play was dead from the start. I don’t think any runner wants to just lay down at that point (even if it makes the most sense to us), so he tried to back around him, like Djax likes to do sometimes on punt returns.

            But it does seem odd they don’t do more inside zone straight-up-the-gut stuff with him. They do that sometimes, and it works well from what I remember…

          • BlindChow

            Yeah, McCoy’s 6.2 yards per carry in Green Bay was brutal.

          • theycallmerob

            1st 6 games: 123 att, 630 yds, 5.1 ypc, 3 TDs,15 rec, 241 yds, 0 TDs, 1 FUML
            2nd 6 games: 109 att, 458 yds, 4.2 ypc, 2 TDs, 24 rec, 194 yds, 1 TD

            the 2nd 6 games also factor in Barkley playing against both DAL and NYG

            I’ll take that slight dip any day for an additional 4 wins and better passing game. and the zone read is more important, or “clutch”, than the read option

          • BlindChow

            NO!!! AVERAGE YARDS PER CARRY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STAT IN FOOTBALL!!!!

            Seriously, there are so many other factors involved in those numbers, but this guy won’t stop clinging to the “McCoy can’t run with Foles” thing. I mean, we run McCoy into 8 man boxes when we’re holding a lead. How many times did Vick have a lead?

            Plus, when Vick was in, we had the advantage of debuting a brand new offense. Foles has had to deal with defensive coordinators actually having film and being to able to plan for what they do.

            But no, Vick = fast, Foles = slow, so the run game is broken.

          • theycallmerob

            there are just some fans who prefer Madden football to W’s. I didn’t think it possible, but….joke’s on me. I’ve accepted it by now. Still love using my spare time doing this research than busy work
            numbers > strawmen

          • Stephen Stempo

            CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION. Go write that 100 times it is the most important sentence in the English language.

          • Anders

            In the 6 games Foles have started McCoy would be on pace for just over 1400 yards. I mean that is really ugly right? Add in another 600 yards trough the air over a full year.

          • theycallmerob

            Wonder if they’d put him out wide for a bubble screen or stacked play since he loves running near the sideline.

            I like it, not sure he has the pass-catching skills chops to succeed out there.

          • Daniel Spector

            You hit the nail on the head. We either have to go with a heavy line and pound it in that situation, or just say screw running out the clock and bomb it deep.

          • theycallmerob

            bingo. not sure why Barbre doesn’t come in, and LJ becomes eligible receiver. Big OL (like SF does), everyone knows it’s coming but Gore still gets his yards.
            Plus, motion LJ out wide every once in awhile when he’s eligible….really mess with the DC’s head

    • A_T_G

      We have seen this strategy before. It is what opens up the deep passing game. I think teams are rightfully afraid to use it until they reach a point where they are desperate and we are trying to control the clock.

  • A_T_G

    Not to sound like a raging optimist, but is it possible that the competition will solve this problem for us? Eventually, perhaps in six days, we will face an opponent that keeps pace and doesn’t allow us to develop a 3-score lead. When that happens it will be noteworthy whether or not the offense can sustain the level of play we have seen in the first half of many games. That will tell us if the problem is not being able to grind it out in low gear or if it is getting out adjusted within the game.

  • RobNE

    How would you rank the factors causing the problems with the Offense with a lead? Possible factors include play calling (now I am starting to see why the Pats were d#cks in 2007 and kept running the score up), this N-S runner issue (why not more Polk?), the OL, calling plays with too much time left on the clock, etc.

  • Aran

    2 major concerns Chip has to address:

    A) Turnovers are great, but you need POINTS off them

    B) Playing with a lead/second halves. It befuddles me.

    • theycallmerob

      re: your point “A”, not that big an issue. Got the 1st TD off the fumble.

      For the year, we’re tied for 6th in TO differential (+7) and 6th in Net Turnover Points (+30).

      Tied for dead last in TO diff. last year, and 30th in the net points. I’d say that’s a huge improvement, not major concern.

      http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-net-turnover-points-statistics/2013/

      • Aran

        Part of me appreciates improvement, while another part of me still shoots for being a “legitimate” team. To be competitive, not only must you generate turnovers (thus preventing the other team from scoring at perhaps critical junctures), but you need to consistently generate points from those, even if they’re 3 at a time.

        • theycallmerob

          I still don’t get your comment….6th in the NFL in both. how is that not “legitimate”? the teams ahead of us aren’t scrubs- KC, SF, SEA, CAR.
          ….well, DAL sucks. always one outlier

          • Aran

            You’re speaking in relative terms. I don’t care about relative or rankings. I, and I imagine this is a point the coaching staff is making, too, whether or not you want to acknowledge it, expect reliable points off turnovers. We left too many points on the field this game, as well as others (including DJax’s PR…which by the way, I suspect he was taken out of WR duty for a few plays afterwards so that he could calm down)

          • Stephen Stempo

            I believe this is what is called in statistics a small sample size.. since you’re using only 1 game.

          • Aran

            Not quite. Eagles rank 18th in points off turnovers and 6th in takeaways. That discrepancy means something, and still that’s speaking in relative terms, which I think is faulty for the long-term performance of the team. If you think the coaches aren’t trying to address this, I think you’re mistaken.

            http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake

            http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-net-turnover-points-statistics/2013/

          • theycallmerob

            you keep saying relative…do you know what that means? relative to what? the rest of the league? should they be better than a make-believe team? how does improvement from last year not bode well for long-term performance? and 18th is just in points off, not including points given up. In math it’s known as “net value”. 6th in the league in net pts.

          • Aran

            Man, you’re thick. You’re right that this is a waste.

          • theycallmerob

            ..

          • theycallmerob

            never mind, this is a waste of time.

          • Stephen Stempo

            oh I’m sure the coaches are trying to address this. I’m not writing it off but points off of turnover is an incredibly volatile stat given how volatile turnovers can be as a stat. It’s definitely important. I’m just saying that it’s a difficult thing to see a cause and effect relationship is. It could just be a few small mistakes that barely show up or just chance, which, believe it or not, plays a big part in games like football. This is one of those stats that you would need several seasons of data to draw any conclusions from.

          • theycallmerob

            you do realize this is an entirely new defense (and offensive scheme), correct? who in the league exactly is getting “reliable points”? rankings are based on stats, which are numbers, which don’t lie. you don’t make any sense at all

          • theycallmerob

            and thanks for the downvotes, too. not sure what point you’re making….hate the truth that much?

          • Aran

            No, downvoting because I believe your comments are misguided and are in fantasy-land, themselves.

          • theycallmerob

            what exactly is misguided? you harped on needing points off turnovers. We get them; I showed you numbers, not opinion, to prove it. Are you just mad at being wrong? Don’t be mad with me, brother, hate the truth. It’ll set you free

          • Aran

            Eagles rank 18th in points off turnovers and 6th in takeaways. That discrepancy means something, and still that’s speaking in relative terms, which I think is faulty for the long-term performance of the team. If you think the coaches aren’t trying to address this, I think you’re mistaken.

            http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake

            http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-net-turnover-points-statistics/2013/

          • theycallmerob

            so nice you posted it twice!

          • Aran

            One was written as a reply to the other poster, but I guess Disqus doesn’t show that. You’re a winner.

          • BlindChow

            SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN ME! I AM OUTRAGED!

          • theycallmerob

            one minute it’s this…

            You’re speaking in relative terms. I don’t care about relative or rankings.

            10 min later….

            Eagles rank 18th in points off turnovers and 6th in takeaways. That discrepancy means something, and still that’s speaking in relative terms

            am I missing something?

          • Aran

            Pointing out the flaws in your relativity paradigm, which you refuse to think outside of. Angry much?

          • theycallmerob

            not really, dunno why you’re still trolling me. the truth is out man. relative or not, those numbers are across the year.
            relative implies direct comparison- so i’ll ask again, since you can’t answer. what team exactly is getting reliable points? how can you argue going from 30th–>6th is a “major concern”? but I guess all the supportive upvotes you’re getting are really showing me up….oh wait…

          • Aran

            People online downvote in mob mentality, if you’re unaware, and often against people espousing unpopular yet valid ideas. Try out reddit and you’ll see it there, too. I don’t care.

            You’re speaking relatively, referencing rankings against other teams. You may have your own measures and standards as to what makes a team “good,” “great,” or “legitimate,” but I think consistency is one of mine, and to me that involves some independence from how other teams are faring in the same areas. Foles has been consistent, but other phases will still need to catch up.

          • theycallmerob

            so….the mob is against you? you’ve yet to make anything you’ve said “valid”, but it’s certainly unpopular.

            you asked a simple question to start this; I showed you a dramatic improvement from last year (Reid) to this (Kelly). the improvement is there; how is it a “major concern”? I’m sorry for you that the numbers don’t support your opinion, but don’t be mad. it’s ok.

            for the record, i’m not even down-voting you brother, it’s your peers.

          • BlindChow

            It’s your hoodlum friends is who it is.

          • Aran

            You keep pointing to the improvement from last to this year. I’m not contesting that. This is still an area I’d like to see more improvement on and is thus still a concern to me. Am I flailing my arms and saying our world is ending? No. You may have interpreted it that way, though.

          • theycallmerob

            no, i can interpret just fine. maybe you need to clarify. you first said it’s a major concern. second point was that the improvement is not “legitimate”, and somehow points off turnovers are required to be considered competitive. Have any support for that? Cause I gave you mine.

          • Stephen Stempo

            I think you both need a thesaurus. Arguing over the “relative” emphasis of the words used.

          • theycallmerob

            hey, semantics and nuance make the world go round. If someone misuses a term and gets called on it, not sure how ignorance becomes an acceptable defense.

            I do print some of these threads to show my students the various logical fallacies. Football topics connect more with them than BS examples from the logic textbook. This one’s getting the ol’ CTRL+P treatment for sure

          • Lewwyn

            This conversation has been priceless.

          • theycallmerob

            I aim to please on monday mornings

          • bentheimmigrant

            News Flash: Everything in football is relative. Remove what other teams do and no stat means anything.

          • Aran

            It’s short-sighted and good coaches prefer absolute performance over relative performance. Believing otherwise is hogwash.

          • theycallmerob

            we are absolutely better than most at getting turnovers, and thus scoring off of them, while avoiding giving the ball (and points) away.

            better?

          • bentheimmigrant

            “Absolute performance”…. So let’s say a team averages 2.1 turnovers a game, and scores 4.3 points per turnover. How do you determine if that is good?

          • Aran

            You see if you can improve it. At least one score per turnover is good, I’d say. I’m not saying stats mean nothing, but relative rankings don’t mean everything

          • bentheimmigrant

            Obviously?… You’re really not making much of a point though. All that matters is how a team performs relative to the rest of the league. Stats can help us interpret that.

          • Aran

            To an extent.

          • theycallmerob

            22 turnovers this year. 60 pts for. 2.73 pts per turnover. there….absolute.
            now what? is that good?

          • theycallmerob

            edit: never mind, guess it’s not good…just saw you’re cut-off above

            but you need to consistently generate points from those, even if they’re 3 at a time.

            I cede the floor, good sir. Next year, Chip had better improve by .27 pts….or else

  • MattE

    Nice call on the Nate Allen pick!

  • CrackSammich

    True story:

    Last year, my coworker’s apartment burnt down. She tried to sell her Eagles tickets to raise money. We just gave her money instead because nobody wanted those tickets. Perspective, for when the 4th quarter gets to you next time.

  • TheRogerPodacter

    there was a lot of talk going into this game that AZ had not scored less than 27 points all season. why is no one giving the defense any credit here? i thought they played a great game, even with Chung hitting our own guys on like 5 plays in the second half…

    • BlindChow

      They scored fewer than 27 points in seven of their games.

      It was just the last 4 games where they scored a lot of points, but those were the “fool’s gold” games against the Texans, Jaguars, Falcons, and Colts.

    • Stephen Stempo

      Who’s not giving the defense credit? I think the defense straight out balled yesterday 5 sacks and 3 TO’s.. When that’s your stat line do you need extra props?

      I mean if you’d like I could use fantabulous and awesomenishousness!

      • TheRogerPodacter

        i think the defense played great football. maybe i’m off by saying that ‘no one is giving the defense any credit’. its more of a ‘the great play by the defense is overshadowed by the concerns on the offensive performance in the second half’.

    • TommyLawlor

      ARZ scored 27 per game for the last month…not all season. Offense struggled early in the year.

      • TheRogerPodacter

        ahh i see. i must have misunderstood all of that talk, then.

  • Stephen Stempo

    Interesting thought I just had. I’m pretty sure the Eagles D has been on the field more plays than nay other D (if not it’s close.) Early in the year there was this big uproar over the team wearing down as the season went on. I think this part of the season is a huge test and seemingly so far a validation of Chips whole sports science approach to conditioning. I expect if we keep this up a lot of teams are going to be bringing in their own specialists next year.

    disclaimer:
    I never bought that teams “wear down.” It’s not baseball or hockey where you play constantly. You have a week off your body has a chance to get back to 100% (injuries notwithstanding, I mean strictly from a conditioning standpoint). Still an interesting angle to keep an eye on.

    • anon

      Pundits have been wrong about everything. I think our D is in better shape than most, but all teams are worn down at the end of the year to say oyu get back to 100% every week is oversimplification at this point in the season.

      • Stephen Stempo

        teams are injured. Which is why i said injuries notwithstanding. Human bodies are pretty awesome. Pulls, strains, bruises can all effect performance.

        The narrative is that teams in the NFL get “tired” when they play a lot of snaps and I think that’s BS in a seasonal sense. In game it probably holds to be true, even more so in drive.

        That term “tired” that the media uses is a lazy way of saying broken down. I am willing to put money that teams are no more or less “tired (in terms of total amount of stored energy) during the first game then they are on the last game, they just happen to be more injured.

        I guess it’s probably just semantics, but it’s a pet peeve.

        • anon

          I think if you places a week 1 against a week 17 team you’d see the difference. Bu think is everyone plays the same number of games so you dont’ see the difference in terms of quality of games.

        • BlindChow

          The example I’ve always seen regarding the Eagles is Trent Cole. I’ve always read Cole is much less effective later in seasons than at the beginning, on account of being “worn down.” That could be a matter of unattributed injury, though.

          Certainly he is looking better late in the year THIS season!

          • TheRogerPodacter

            its great to see Cole really get going late in the season. just in time for a late season run for the playoffs!

  • eagleyankfan

    Wow — what a ride. I get they are “barely” holding on but man that offensive is dominating at times. Cooper/DJ held in check… no problem … Foles will use the TE’s. A lot of weapons on a team that still getting use to the offense.
    Foles — has been dominating. Period.

    • Stephen Stempo

      well to be fair for 5 straight games “DB’s have been falling down” all the time. Which is kind of crazy.

    • BlindChow

      I get the sense that those early plays were designed to go to the TE’s, as that’s where the Cardinals have been having trouble on defense.

      I keep hearing about the adjustments the Cards made in the second half, so that’s something to look for in the All-22′s: did the Cards start focusing on Celek and Ertz?

      • eagleyankfan

        and if so — did the Eagles adjust? Also, I guess that means there were some good game planning in the by week. All good signs…

      • theycallmerob

        they stopped blitzing as much; had more guys in coverage.
        Cards sending 5+ rushers
        1st half: 70% of dropbacks. Foles was 10-14, 2 TDs and 2 sacks
        2nd half: 47% of dropbacks. Foles was 1-5, 0 TDs and 3 sacks

        those players staying home also made it tougher for Shady

        http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=331201021

      • TheRogerPodacter

        one thing that the announcers were saying is that they should bring whatshisname Tyrann something (brain fart, sorry) to cover Celek/Ertz and it looked like they started to do some of that in the second half.

  • jshort

    Can Foles qualify to make the pro-bowl?

    • Anders

      He is on the ballot now.

    • Andy124

      Yes. He’s currently on the ballot.

  • Daniel Spector

    My group of friends started an Ertz chant every time he makes a catch. EEEEERRRRTTTZZZZ in a low growl type sound. Hoping it catches on.

    • ICDogg

      Chris Berman… “More like Nazereth… Love Ertz”!

    • BlindChow

      I’ve always thought we needed a guy with a chant. I’m jealous of all those other teams that have one.

  • jshort

    Last year we scored 24 points and above twice….24 against Ravens with a W….33 in a loss to Dallas

  • ICDogg
  • ICDogg