Safety Upgrade?
Posted: February 4th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 111 Comments »The biggest mystery of the 2014 offseason is what will happen at Safety. Reuben Frank talked to Howie Roseman this weekend on a variety of subjects, one of which was Safety.
Go here to listen to the full interview.
My takeaway is that the Eagles will make a move at Safety…but it may not be what you think. Roob asked about whether the Eagles would be comfortable with Earl Wolff and a rookie starting together.
“We want to be careful of going into the draft and just having a big hole there,” Roseman said. “And I think there are things you can do at any position that are short-term stopgaps to get you through the moment if you had to, if you didn’t find someone in the draft.”
Howie isn’t saying the Eagles will go get TJ Ward or Jairus Byrd. He is saying the team will have at least a serviceable starter to go alongside Wolff. This could be an impact free agent. It could be Nate Allen. It could be a mid-level starter signed through free agency. It won’t shock me if they hold on to Patrick Chung as an emergency option. I repeat…emergency option.
If the Eagles do sign a stud Safety in free agency, they won’t feel pressure to take one early in the draft. They still could, but there won’t be a sense of need. If the Eagles have a marginal player in there, Safety will be more of a priority in the draft.
Some people took Howie’s comments to mean that the Eagles would go for one of the top guys. I just don’t think that is the case. The Eagles will look into those players, but Howie made mention of how tough that situation is. You end up paying great player money to good players and good player money to pretty good players. That might be okay now, but can affect your cap situation in the long run.
There is no question the Eagles would love to add a talent like Ward or Byrd. The question is how much those guys are worth. Heck, Ward might not even hit the market. That could lead to a huge bidding war for Byrd’s services. Is he worth mega-bucks? I don’t think so. I’m sure the Eagles will talk to their agents and see if the players have reasonable demands or if they are asking for crazy money. The Eagles aren’t going to hand a blank check to those guys.
You can go here to read Roob’s take on the Safety situation and his interview with Howie.
One name I’d like to throw out as a possible target…Saints S Malcolm Jenkins. He played CB at Ohio State. Jenkins isn’t athletic enough to pull that off in the NFL, but he’s got a versatile background, having played some Nickelback as a rookie. He’s 6-0, 204, which is solid size. He won’t turn 27 until December. Jenkins can play in the box. He had 2.5 sacks and 5 TFLs this year. He had 2 FFs. Jenkins can also make plays in the passing game. He had 2 INTs and 5 pass deflections this year.
Jenkins isn’t an elite player, but might be the kind of guy you’d be willing to spend good money on. He seems like a high character guy. Jenkins has been a team captain for the Saints. He won some big games at Ohio State and has been a winner with the Saints.
I need to watch tape of him and other FAs before I say anything definitive, but Jenkins could be an interesting name that the Eagles wouldn’t have to break the bank for.
_
If we can get a safety or OLB early in the draft I kinda like Martvius Bryant. At 6’5″ he sure is tall and had an yards/catch of 20.5!!!! I’ve read he can also run under a 4.5.
Plus he has pretty good hands. Just check out the highlights from the Orange Bowl against Ohio State.
he had a what?
20.5 yds/catch?
for a S/LB??? lol
Bryant is a WR that may go later in the draft.
ahhh.. u made it sound like he was a s/LB u wanted to draft.. lol
Talking WRs, I want this guy above else. He really reminds me of Fitzgerald in some of his catches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cjvErKu35g
Doubt he makes it to our 54th pick
Sadly yes, but he is the kind of guy who can win jump balls even tho he isnt the biggest.
Me too, but who knows, if we like him enough, and he falls enough, Howie has definitely moved around a lot in drafts past.
He’s actually projected to go late 1st to early 2nd. I love Beckham. He’s a guy that can rotate inside into the slot and outside. Tough, physical WR.
Is he big enough Chip would want him in the first 3 rounds?
He is 6’0 190, so I say yes.
I think people overreact in certain positions and as you can see he can actually fight for the ball, something many not even big WRs can.
Liked what I saw there and he has good size at 6’3
A little concerning that he’s only caught 61 passes in three years in college…
He was behind 2 1st round picks in DeAndre Hopkins last year and Sammy Watkins this year
How bout Michael Mitchell ex-Raider current Panther..?
jenkins seems like a good idea… anyway i just want the best WR/TE in the 1st round..
This FO is all, all about value. Top FAs are often too expensive, and don’t represent good value.
The only reason they would splash out on Orakpo, Byrd, TJ Ward, is because they think this position has more value in their system than in most team’s, hence why the value would not be that bad.
For example, I think if Clady would hit the market, the Eagles could break the bank for him. He’s not just a good to very good LT, which commends big bucks, he is the best LT possible in their system (after a healthy Jason Peters).
So to me, looking at things with that angle, it would not shock me to have them breaking the bank for Orakpo, because a good ROLB has great value in this system (maybe the key player on defense), while I don’t see them doing so on a CB, ILB, NG or DE. Safety is still a mystery to me.
Skins are already in talks with Orakpo, Riley n Hall already n talks
Yeah I heard Orakpo wasn’t likely to be leaving Washington…it blows my mind that people aren’t dying to get as far away from that defense…that franchise…that owner as fast as humanly possible. Not even going to talk to anybody else?? Guess my perceptions are off.
Most of the top free agents are gonna get resigned or just tagged this year. Saints aren’t letting Graham go anywhere. Same with Skins and Orakpo. Both the Bills and Browns have tons of cap space to resign Ward or Byrd. If not they can also just tag them since they will easily fit under the cap. The only big ticket guy who I think will become available is Greg Hardy since the Panthers aren’t in all that great a shape cap wise since their previous GM was such a moron.
I’d LOVE Orakpos backup Rob Jackson
Malcolm Jenkins has had his own Chung! moments.
Also, it’s getting a little tiresome about having to be careful about cap money, so let’s not spend any money on difference making talent that’s owed what they’re worth. At the end of the day, Howie’s Job is to make Lurie’s Money count.
We don’t have a playoff caliber defense. The main reason we don’t have a playoff caliber defense is because we just don’t have very many actual difference-makers. I mean, the Saints do all right, but they spent most of the year with a more evenly applied layer of pretty good talent, and then scheme to spread it around even better. We don’t need any more try-hard guys. We need more stars. We really need three more high performing assets on that defense, at least one of them has to be a real star.
Agreed bro!
I don’t agree with you very often, but I do this time.
The Eagles need at last 1 or two difference makers on D and we all know these won’t grow on the trees.
We all want difference-makers for the defense. Those guys rarely hit the market as a known commodity. The Eagles have gone after some of them (Troy Vincent, Jevon Kearse, Asante Samuel). Lurie will pay elite money for elite players. You don’t want to pay for steak and get hamburger. That’s what hurts your cap. If the Eagles think Ward and Byrd are worth the money, they’ll go after them. They just might not think those guys are worth elite money. And I’m still not sure Ward is a FA. Seems like franchise tag candidate to me.
Hey, I seem to remember we paid that Asomugha guy pretty good coin as well. I don’t remember what happened after that though.
I think the strategy for team building and cap management is much like that for crafting a good offense. You want to be efficient most of the time but explosive when there’s a serious opportunity.
Sea has both FA booms like Bennet, and FA busts like Rice, and sorta both but explosive like Harvin. They can get away with it because they get production from their draft in a way we haven’t most recent years.
Zach Miller….what….the…hell.
Kills me that their GM is being worshiped for his late round success, when he whiffs in the high rounds and during FA regularly.
Seattle is all coach.
^ this x1000
Just so we’re all on the same page, these wiffs you speak of include a pro-bowl LT and the envy of all Eagles fans, Earl Thomas. If we could get anything close to 50% of our first round picks becoming pro-bowlers, you’d be singing Rosemann’s praises for years.
The Schneider hate is mind blowing. You’re all like a bunch of FO hipsters.
It’s not hate, it’s realism. Those are 2 picks of their 5. Going back the same number of years, we got: Maclin, Graham, Watkins, Cox, and Johnson.
So are you calling Irvin a bust or including him? And FWIW…it does seem to be leaning towards a little hate. I mean I really don’t understand this argument against them and Schneider. So what he has missed on as many 1st round picks as we have. He has hit on the many, and I do mean many, of the picks that followed (where we have not). Doesn’t that make him good at what he does? His FA and trade list is pretty good as well. Not astronomically good, but still good to sa the least. Who cares how much Zach Miller is making? I think it’s a completely invalid point. To my understanding, that contract is not hard for them to get out of, plus they did draft Luke Wilson to groom to take over. And nothing is stopping them from drafting any other TE to groom. He may not have had this in mind, but he built that team from the bottom up instead if top down. It works for them. UFDA track record…outstanding. I don’t get why so many are trying to pick apart and tear down Schnieder’s accomplishment(s)!!!
2/4. Schneider came in with Carroll in 2010. Earl Thomas (who we passed on) and Okung vs. Lane Jonhson and Cox. Toss in a Bruce Irvin/BG comparison for the third one, I’d say even, if not slightly tilted towards the Hawks. But that’s subjective.
And I’m still confused how it detracts from him that Pete Carroll is a good DB coach? Its not like Pete Carroll has special DB juice he feeds his late round picks to imbue them with the ability to become some of the best DB’s in the NFL. His job as a GM is a talent evaluator. The coach tells him what he wants, and he finds it. He went out and found guys with talent that Carroll could harness. How on earth does it make him any less of a GM for finding these guys? How does this point get continually reinforced by Schneider detractors? It has zero rational basis.
I don’t think we can rule out juice with the seahawks.
I think that’s fair considering their recent history. But I wonder how much impact something like that has on the ability of a DB to do DB things.
So now that Howie is “getting the guy that coach wants”, isn’t he just as skilled a GM?
Say the Eagles win the super bowl next year. Will all of Howie’s detractors praise him as equally as Kelly?
I just see Schneider as a good GM, but there’s nothing otherworldly he did in building that team. DL is almost all free agents, save for two guys (Bryant and Mebane) who were there before him. Two early rd picks at LB last year to his credit, and of course the secondary. They can’t draft a skill position guy for crap.
I’m not taking all the credit from him. But I think the majority of that team’s play is due to Carroll, not necessarily the shrewd moves Schneider makes.
Ahh, I get it now. Don’t take this personally Rob, but it seems there’s a little butthurt coming out that Howie isn’t getting Love and Schneider is 🙂 When Howie puts together a SB winning roster he will receive the admiration that it seems you think is missing as of now.
Seriously tho, I haven’t seen a bunch of Schneider praise that diminishes Roseman. I could have missed it and if it’s out there, then it’s wrong and shouldn’t be the case. I don’t think the 2 are mutually exclusive. Liking and admiring Schneider’s approach should not require defense of Roseman.
I was just using Howie as a different example, it’s nothing to do with him personally. I could have said the same about Ted Thompson, or Baalke, or plenty of others.
The knee-jerk reaction after a Super Bowl is just heap praise on folks. Did Schneider make some good moves? sure. But did he make Clemons, Avril, and Bennett perform better once SEA signed them?
I posted their draft history yesterday, and the link to the roster above. If that’s somehow evidence of a great GM, you and I are seeing two different things.
Also, not sure where this butthurt thing started, but it’s pretty lame
Ok so I was wrong about the Howie thing. Told you not to take the butthurt thing personally. Lol. Just a phrase. I don’t know why it has to be that he’s a great GM or not. The man has helped to put together one of the greatest Ds and built a SB winning team w/ additions that he added that very few thought to, if they thought to at all. Nothing else need matter!!! Of course people are going to sing his praises and hold him up on a pedestal. The fact that he now has to be a “great” GM is where I and others start think that it’s just boiling down to hate(r). Let the man get his due. His record as of now speaks for itself. And as of now, it’s saying more towards him being a “great” (as you put it) GM than it is for the haters.
If the Eagles had acquired half the talent the Seahawks did since 2010, I think he’d have a lot less detractors. I also believe, and from what I gathered you do as well, that the coach deserves most if not all credit for how the team performs. But when a team puts together one of the most dominant defenses we’ve seen in the past 20 years, I think the guy who brings the players in should get his lion’s share of the credit and shouldn’t be detracted from. Same for Howie if he ever manages to do so.
As for the skill position debate, I would be inclined to agree a bit with you there, although I do really like Golden Tate. I’m more of the opinion that Russell Wilson is a synonym for hyperbole, although he’s certainly not a bad QB, but that is a discussion best suited for another time.
I do agree they could have waited until after the parade to tell Miller our way or the highway.
That and Russell Wilson still costs < $1 million against the cap
This. Having a franchise level quarterback getting paid like a punter is so big an advantage it can hardly be overstated.
like their super star CB and #2 starting CB
stop trumpeting the national media. They’ve had 4 years to build that team, and their biggest coups were getting a starting NFL QB in the 3rd round (sound familiar?), and a pile of late round DBs that the coach, gifted in secondary work, molded into a great unit. Tons of free agents, and plenty of busted picks- especially early.
http://nfl.si.com/2014/01/27/seattle-seahawks-team-building-super-bowl-xlviii/
To touch on your point about expecting production from our drafts; I might be a year premature, but I am expecting the trend of the last two years to continue. Not that every guy is going to pan out and become a starter. Just that the picks are going to make sense.
There have been no real head scratchers, or slappers for that matter, in the last two years. I expect that should continue forevvverrzz.
banner? franchise tag?? whoa….
Everyone here loves Earl Thomas so much, how about the guy he replaced, who is currently a FA. With some good sports science he might have a couple of years in him, and probably no bidding war. 6-footer, used to be called “Big Play Babs”. Pretty good credentials at one time.
Seems like their Center would be more of a tag candidate then Byrd…No? Isn’t the tag cheaper for centers?
Like GermanEagle, for once I agree with you.
I think, though, that it’s much better to draft and develop star talent than to try to import it through free agency. Firstly, it’s much cheaper (witness Seattle, with most of their best players being homegrown and cost-controlled). Secondly, if you’re good at drafting it’s more reliable. I can’t think of one team that built a dominant offensive or defensive unit primarily through free agency, but I can think of many teams (2011 Eagles, various incarnations of the Snyder Redskins and Jones Cowboys, etc.) that tried to do so and flopped miserably. The best free agency can do is add a star player that puts your unit over the top, and I don’t think the Eagles’ D is close enough to the top yet that splurging on Byrd or Ward would make the difference.
why isn’t ryan shazier getting more love from dratniks? he’s a palymaker no doubt he reminds me a a lot of lavonte david. Can tackle and cover. if he runs a sub 4.5 at the combine he might just be the ultimate safety/Lb hybrid. he’s an excellent blitzer as well. other than boykins we have NO playmekers on defense right. i love kendricks but he plays too out of control. he over pursues a lot!.
if pryor is gone at 22..i say we get shazier
Kendricks is still a play maker. He had 4 sacks, 2 FFs and 3 ints.
Shazier, C Jones or Van Noy are all good potential ILBs
I have mentioned Shazier as a potential target.
http://igglesblitz.com/2014/01/some-ilb-talk/
Dont think he’s worth the number 22 pick
Having a 230 pound speed guy next to Kendricks scares me a bit. Remember what Kelly says – big people beat up little people. I’d prefer a bigger LB who can be a block-shedding thumper like Ryans.
Mostly all prospects need to put on weight so don’t get too focused on that. But I ask you, who’s going to cover then? Block shedding thumpers are typically not good in coverage, not really effective in blitzing. Davis likes to blitz and MK is good at it. Adding a thumper just leaves us in the same boat as we are in w/ Ryans, w/ the possibility of a little better run support. But getting a NT can provide just as much, if not more, w/ the run support/stuffing improvements we need/want.
Why not get 2 Kendricks types (not height wise)? I’m more inclined to think that we need a guy who can cover, blitz, get tackles, and is athletic. I know…seems like an “of course” moment. Of course we all want guys that can “do everything”. The thing is tho, there are several prospects who can do just that. Jones (my fave), Van Noy, Shazier, Mosely, etc. These guys, and guys of there ilk, allow Davis to keep blitzing. They allow Davis to disguise coverages and blitzes. They allow superior versatility and even if they give up a little in what you want as a strength (run stopping) they more than make up for it by not being good enough to do so many other things. They allow Davis to play true situational football by extending the playbook.
there is something good to be said about having 4 LBs that are effective rushing the passer – Cole / new OLB would be pass rushing most of the time so it would be his primary duty.
Kendricks we know can move, and Barwin is effective, if not great at it.
Getting a 4th guy that knows how to get to the QB, but can also cover would allow for any one of them to rush the QB on any given play
One thing is for sure; the Eagles are looking for a guy who can tackle. If they were to sign him you have to defer to their opinion and just assume the guy is going to fit the mold.
We are all expecting as much anyway… there should be no Matt McCoys anywhere in our near future.
Agreed. That’s why I named the guys I did as examples. They all can tackle. They all may not be guys who lay the wood…but they can definitely tackle. I’m definitely w/ TheRoger on this. The more LBs we have that can do it all the better. Ray Lewis’s last season changed my mind on thumpers. I used to love them and wanted on so bad in the mold of the ax man. But that year Lewis dropped weight to be more effective. In addition he had Elerbe next to him, who at the time was playing in tombs 230s and playing very well. I think thumpers are going the way of enforcers in the league. Sure we still have and will have them, but both positions have evolved to having less of an ax man and Lott nature to more of versatile Luke Kuechkly Kam Chancellor nature.
Lets not forget R. Lewis was also “undersized” coming out of college.
True.
Christian Jones is probably our best bet for what you just said. He may or may not be there when we pick in the second round. Height, length, athleticism, versatility, and jack of all trades.
There is a few, but Christian Jones is 100% the best fit.
That’s why he’s my fav 🙂 had three in mind last year and was pretty butthurt that we didn’t get one…Alonso, Bostic, and V. Williams. I think it’s imperative that we get a guy this year so that he can study under a great leader and player like Ryans, be it through Ryans actively mentoring, or the kid just watching and learning by example.
Yea. I just hope he’ll learn faster than Kendricks if he does get drafted by us.
Kendricks just needs to learn how to harness/put it all together. That’s about the only thing I can think of, cause to me, he has shown that he has all the goods, including an understanding of the positron and responsibilities. I liked every flash of improvement I saw from MK this year. Just has to make it a constant.
I’d like to see Kendricks miss fewer tackles. We’re not going to morph him into Carlos Emmons when he’s covering TEs, but he needs to wrap dudes up more frequently.
Agreed. He did flash a decreased propensity to miss tackles for a few weeks, but then went right back to missing them again.
At least that string of a few good weeks in a row of good tackle show that he’s capable of doing so when he focuses on that task.
Kelly likes length and speed. Shazier got both. We got no need for a slow ILB who cant cover TEs or have speed to limit YAC
I don’t know about that. The FSU LBs aren’t really that heavy but they’ll tackle everything and cover well. I’d like to see if we have any interest in Telvin Smith. Someone who’s in a similar mold as Shazier is Smith. However, he weighs less and is taller than Shazier.
I only have two wishes for free agency:
Byrd and Orakpo.
Now I am aware that they won’t come cheap and signing two high priced free agents is not very likely, but it would make our defense instantly (very) good with the freedom to go BPA in ANY round in this year’s draft.
Besides free agents from other teams I hope we can keep both Cooper and Maclin. This would also allow the Eagles to do whatever they want in the draft.
Speaking of the Draft:
Does anyone know how to get tickets at a reasonable price? Since I live in NY now I am thinking of watching it live…
Info from last year.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000158366/article/nfl-announces-fan-guidelines-for-attending-2013-draft
Thanks, mate.
Sounds like a lot of queuing to me..
Day 3 is never full. On TV the seats are half empty. You could probably just show up when the doors open.
Fair enough. Don’t know if I want to spend my Sunday there if I could spend time with my lovely twin daughters instead..
Orakpo won’t get out of dc
Tommy, what are your thoughts in bringing in Chris Clemons from Miami in as a free agent? He should cost much less than Byrd or Ward and still solidifies the back end, although he does fail to generate turnovers.
Bringing back Chung as an emergency option seems a bit like giving cyanide tablets to skydivers. By the time it starts looking like a good idea, it probably doesn’t really matter much.
+1 for the metaphor
That seems like the only scenario in which Chung could bring anything to the ground.
Stevie Brown? Had a breakout year, then got injured…
giants resigning for cheap
Maybe he pulls a Kenny Phillips on them.
Taking Nate Allen’s year into perspective would you rather have Jenkins than him Tommy? You didn’t specifically say that, you just listed him as an option. I don’t know that I would but of course I am going completely off watching live games. If so, what does he do better?
What about Antoine Bethea? He will turn 30 before next season, and isn’t one to pick off a lot of passes, but he is always in on a lot of tackles and has been a great leader. Would the price be right for a guy like that?
I personally would pass unless there were no good options after the draft. He will probably still be there.
doesn’t FA start before the draft?
we will have to decide which FAs to get before knowing who we will get in the draft.
i think a solution like Bethea would be very similar to what happened last season with Bennie Logan and…. um… crap. can’t think of that samoan guys name for the life of me. ..
There are always a ton of guys similar to Bathea that don’t get signed until after the draft. If last year was any precursor (and I think that it is) I would be willing to put some cashola on it in a vegas prop bet!
Which sorta of circles back to my point that I didn’t come right out and say. He isn’t someone you go out and get as a building block of your team.
While we’re talking about free agency, thoughts on Brandon LaFell as a potential replacement for Avant? Carolina might have trouble bringing him back since they have 21 free agents. He’s a willing blocker but doesn’t have the best hands. Good size though at 6’3, 211. Too similar to Cooper / Benn?
He certainly came around this year and cemented his ability to get another contract. To me he is probably a Riley Cooper lite, if only because he is slightly smaller and slightly slower to my eye. Probably a good alternative if we can’t get Coop signed. Heck, or take him over Cooper.. idc. I am no Cooper fan though.
Benn on the other hand probably has the potential to be much much better than either if he could every stay healthy.
If you can’t make it on Carolina you can’t make it here. They don’t want to bring him back. They are keeping Ginn and dropping him.
off topic, but I have a new favorite 7th round target – RB Isaiah Crowell:
http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/12/30/isaiah-crowell/
If I’m Ward, I’m leaving Cleveland no matter what. I’m not sure if they’ll tag him however.
In either case I’m fully expecting Byrd to be a Redskin for 5 years / $50 million and for all of us to be massively irked when it happens.
Cle is a QB, RB and WR away from being contenders. They have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. FO is kind of a mess but they should feel like their in a good position.
I agree with you. But you still have to live in Cleveland…
and Joe Banner is always trying to undercut your value
Do you men like the way some commenters are trying to undercut Ryans’ value in Philly?
I know right. Think there’s some agism going on.
Only in football is 29 agism.
Or anything dealing with women.
For 5 years / $50 million I will be relieved, not irked. For 5 years you could draft 5 safeties for rookie deals and maybe not one of them would be “elite”, but 1 or 2 may be good. And I still wonder about seeing Byrd sitting on the ground at the Pro Bowl with SOME KIND of injury.
NO WAY Byrd is a Redskin!! Redskins are about to make Orakpo Super PAID, and they will obsessively chace Aqib Talib. No way the can sign Byrd too. Oakland is worrisome as a Byrd fan.
…
banner doesn’t believe in the Tag.and he also has to worry about losing the FA center. I doubt Banner retains both, hopefully Ward can hit the market
How about upgrading safety this way?
Round 1 Pick 22: Hasean Clinton-Dix, FS, Alabama (A)
Round 2 Pick 26 (N.O.): Allen Robinson, WR, Penn State (A)
Round 3 Pick 21 (G.B.): C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE, Iowa (A)
Round 3 Pick 22: DaQuan Jones, DT, Penn State (A)
Round 4 Pick 22: Craig Loston, SS, LSU (A)
Round 5 Pick 22: Antone Exum, CB, Virginia Tech (B+)
Round 5 Pick 29: Ross Cockrell, CB, Duke (A-)
Round 7 Pick 22: Jordan Tripp, OLB, Montana (A)
Thank you first-pick for making it all possible!
How do they get GB’s third round pick?
It was via a trade down with a team that had picked up that pick from Green Bay. That game has a ton of trades.
Kempski on the useless fun of mock drafts (If I recall, Tommy was pretty good last year…)
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/red_zone/That-mock-draft-you-read-today-was-insanely-inaccurate.html