A Different Take on DeSean
Posted: March 29th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 353 Comments »Chris Brown is a terrific football writer and analyst. You many know him from his site, SmartFootball.com or from the work he does for Grantland. He’s written a lot about Chip Kelly from the Oregon days to now. Brown offered some interesting thoughts on the DeSean situation this morning on Twitter.
Clear to me Chip Kelly thinks he can plug and play on offense and use cap room to spend on players on D. Obviously, we'll see how it goes.
— Chris B. Brown (@smartfootball) March 29, 2014
@Eaglesadvocate He was clearly a fit but they decided wasn't worth the money+headache. But it's a risk, clearly
— Chris B. Brown (@smartfootball) March 29, 2014
.@sndjabbari @SheilKapadia Chip might be looking at WRs as a value spot like the Saints; NO has gotten great mileage w/o all-pro spending
— Chris B. Brown (@smartfootball) March 29, 2014
@RobertKlemko Seattle, even New Orleans with value based approach to WR. Remember when Brees threw for 5000 and had no 1,000 yard WR?
— Chris B. Brown (@smartfootball) March 29, 2014
@sndjabbari @SheilKapadia to be more specific, I do think Kelly's view is he's rather spend money on D players and let his system work on O
— Chris B. Brown (@smartfootball) March 29, 2014
@ZBerm there is data that supports idea that easier to have top O without top talent than top D
— Chris B. Brown (@smartfootball) March 29, 2014
Go check out his Twitter timeline to follow the discussions that ensued as he posted his thoughts. Lots of interesting info.
Obviously the one counter to his theory about spending money on defense is that the Eagles didn’t do that this offseason. But there are some players who will need new contracts soon and they won’t come cheap. Fletcher Cox, Cedric Thornton, Mychal Kendricks and Brandon Boykin will need new deals in the near future. And you don’t know where the team might want to spend big FA money in 2015 (OLB or CB?).
Brown’s theory might be totally wrong, but I found it interesting to get the opinion of someone who is informed on the situation, but not emotionally invested. He appreciates Kelly as a coach and Jackson as a player, but isn’t cheering for them. That gives Brown the ability to see things a bit differently.
Just another perspective.
* * * * *
Many of you are still confused by the Eagles not being able to trade DeSean.
The minute a team lets it out that their top WR is on the market, other teams know something is up. That could an injury or contract issue or some off-field situation. The player immediately loses value.
Obviously the DeSean situation moved exponentially fast. He went from key player to toxic asset over night. The point to debate is whether the Eagles should have lied here and tried to convince other teams DeSean was still their guy and a key player. Of course, if they did that, fans and the media would have been screaming the minute the team did trade him.
There is no right way to play this, but the Eagles didn’t help themselves by staying silent so long.
You also have to factor in contracts. DeSean was due huge money. That made him very unattractive to other teams. The Titans are getting ready to release RB Chris Johnson, in part because of his contract. The Bucs had to release CB Darrelle Revis, mainly due to his contract. All 3 players can be dynamic game-changers, but when due huge money, teams said “No thank you.”
The business side of football can be highly confusing at times.
_
Does anyone have a preliminary list of 2015 Defensive UDFAs? Wondering if this is when the Eagles make a “splash” signing on a stud pass rusher or LB. Greg Hardy?
I think Football’s Future often has future year’s free agents.
Overthecap seems to have them.
http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=34OLB&Year=2015
Another thing that’s important is that the Eagles probably didn’t want to trade DeSean because they will get a really bad rap if teams find out later that he had problems. Similar to how a used car salesman gets a bad reputation from selling what turns out to be a lemon. Teams may not negotiate with us in the future if we ship damaged goods.
DeSean because they will get a really bad rap
I see what you doing here…well played!
Not buying the White-Hat stuff. At all.
If the Eagles knew something more serious than what NFL teams apparently have known for years about Jackson since college — like a federal/state indictment was coming down — then that’s one thing.
But otherwise, this is all just PR for the fans. No market for DJax. Kelly didn’t care.
Do you think there is a point where the message outweighs the compensation?
I think we all agree the Eagles motives are solely to improve their team. It is questionable whether the long-term improvements from the culture outweigh the short-term decrease in talent, but the motive is pretty clear.
So, say the Eagles best offer was a 5th rounder. Is there a conversation weighing the worth of a fifth round pick versus the worth of the players on the team seeing DJax cut and lose out on, what, 10 or 15 million over the next two years? Is that message more valuable than the message where players watch Jackson get his money from a different employer?
The Saints took a 5th from us when they suddenly realized there was a market for Sproles. There probably was zero market for DeSean. Can’t see them turning down a pick “on principle.”
A_T_G:
I like your theory. And I think you’re right (on the assumption a very low pick was on the table).
This is about sending a message, which is far more valuable than a 5th Rd pick.
I posted this in the last thread before noticing the new one was up, but since we are still talking about Jackson:
If Damarius Johnson had been doing these things, would you expect the team to give him a long leash and acceptance? I think the message here is that it doesn’t matter who you are or how talented you are, there are certain expectations that must be met to stay with the team. The fact that no player is speaking out seems to suggest that everyone in the locker room knows what those expectations are and knows that DJax failed to meet them.
It is very telling that there hasn’t been a peep from anyone. With social media these days I find it hard to belive that if any players are outraged they wouldn’t say anything. Not even a “Eagles lost a good one”.
I’m a blind homer though so I’m well on my way to convincing myself that this was the best move for the team.
Just think back to when the Texans traded Demeco. Half their team took to twitter with torches and pitchforks.
Think that’s because the loss was logical. People can argue with logic.
Can’t argue with any sort of logic, and I think there is explicitly a public line the Eagles expect all the players to mind.
`People can argue with logic`.
`Can’t argue with any sort of logic`,
which is it?
Demeco:move to 3-4 and expensive ill-fit.
Desean:we don’t like you anymores.
How is `Desean:we don’t like you anymores.` logic?
Maybe they were just scared shit-less. If one of the best players on my team just got released in his prime at the direction of the HC, I’d keep my mouth shut too.
Obviously, you don’t lie to another team. He’s no longer a Kelly/team chemistry guy and takes up too much cap space. His value is lessened. But please get something back for him. I don’t think the teams silence is what doomed it, it was the leaks. Go read Sheil today.
“Lying” is part of negotiations. Some people call it “bluffing.”
Lots of literature on whether/when “lying” may be acceptable.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of that approach.
Among NFL teams, I suspect the GMs run the gamut in how they do business.
The Eagles’ acquisition of TO involved a grievance by the Ravens, based on allegations of double-dealing.
Stuff goes on. And teams can do what the Ravens did if they feel cheated.
Anyway, I’m not buying the “White Hat” Eagles here. There was no market for Jackson — he made too much. And his availability spoke volumes, too.
If it is true,as many sources indicate ,that the Eagles tested the market before last season,got nothing of value,then again this off-season, after probowl numbers, and still got nothing,there would not have been a lot of room for bluffing, and transparently seen as a lie (whatever that tale may have been to raise his trade value)
What`s this ~White hat~ you speak of…like holy,the good guys?
The metaphor comes from hacking culture. There are a spectrum of hacker deeds that exist, ranging from Black to Grey to White. Black is destructive or purely for monetary gain while White is inquisitive and for the benefit of all. White Hats discover vulnerabilities and disclose them for “The Good of All.” In this case, Howie fully disclosing “The Deep, Dark Secret (TM)” while in trade negotiations would be White Hatting.
Or, think White Knight.
Wilfork finally agreed to a restructure with the Pats, so that option isn’t going to happen…
ICD:
What team would even want a 320lb multi-time All Pro coming off achilles surgery?
By the way, what Wilfork did to Vlad Ducasse on the infamous Sanchez fumble was truly impressive.
Foles with Maclin (4 games in 2012): 24 41 59% 331 13.8 2 TDs
Foles with Cooper (11 games in 2013): 43 69 62% 787 18.3 8 TDs
Foles to DeSean (12 games in 2013): 56 84 67% 929 16.6 7 TD
What stands out is Foles.
Vick primarily focused on DeSean, Foles makes it work with whomever is out there, except Avant in 2013, which is why he was cut.
With Foles, a big WR with average speed and good hands can be effective, because he can throw WRs open, and these guys can be found in rounds 2-5 and even as UDFAs (Colston wa a 7th rd pick).
Combine Foles (and notice that Barkley and Sanchez were similar in college, mediocre athletes who were smart and accurate, Sanchez regressed with the Jets, but Chip may be looking at USC Sanchez, who had a great season with an relatively untalented group – no high draft picks on his offense) and Chip’s scheme, based on big WRs, fast scat backs, and undersized athletic TEs and overpaying for a WR is an inefficient allocation of resources.
Now add in DeSean’s negatives and it’s not a shock he was cut, they tried to trade him last year, they tried this year, obviously there wasn’t much of a market.
Foles’ success with Maclin and Cooper, plus all the other skill players they have, suggest DeSean’s departure will not have a major impact on the offense, Foles continued development and the play of the OL will be more important in 2014 and going forward.
Generally agree.
But there’s no “system” in Denver. It’s just Manning. Same effect, though.
Locking up Kelce was fine but he is a ‘real star?’ No way. He is a solid young C who does some things well especially in this scheme but struggles at times too including getting overpowered too much.
With experience playing the position I can say that Kelce does things that make him one of the best centers right now. For example his calls at the line and intelligence in knowing where to be to keep the pocket clean are superb. It’s really his high football IQ that make him into a great player.
He needs to get run over less often by bigger NTs / DTs.
That doesn’t really happen as much as people think especially with the scheme employed by the Eagles which involves a lot of combo blocking, where Kelce and one of the guards start blocking the NT or DT and one bumps off to move to the second level. And just so there is no confusion this isn’t done to hide the centers weakness its a common blocking scheme especially when zone blocking.
We need more hard-hitting Kelce analysis from you. That guy is so under appreciated.
I would say there is a fair amount of potential there still untapped, so there’s at least some gamble involved in locking him down. But I agree that I don’t know if he qualifies as “star” in the sense that, say, Peters would, or that Runyan did when they signed him to lock down that side of the line. At least not yet.
Yes, because a top center anchors your OL. Look at Saturday in indy. He takes pressure off the QB and makes both OGs better. It’s not just what a player does on the stat sheet, it’s what a player does to make his teammates better players.
Kelce is the next Jeff Saturday.
Foles can’t throw open WRs, man.
I know I know, but it’s just the “throw open WR” junk in general. That’s something idiots tell other idiots to add mystery to their favorite QBs. More generally, to the extent that it was ever true, it doesn’t apply to young QBs. They generally do not know what they’re doing, and are relying on their youthful athleticism. Yes, even Andrew Luck.
Foles throws to the place where his receiver can make a play and the defender can’t when his receiver is fairly well covered.
Better?
Why, specifically, do you think I complain about all the underthrows?
Because you’re fixated on a few bad throws?
No, he doesn`t like Foles(.)
You`re beatin a dead horse…Foles has done what every single QB in the history of the NFL has not been capable of doing ,except 2 others… and you still bad mouth him…incredible…Sometimes what you write has merit, but most of the time you sound like Tanya Harding crying over the fact the Nacy Kerrigan was the star,and not her.
That’s why both Maclin and Cooper played much better with Foles, in either AR’s or Chip’s offense. Nothing to do with the QB, I mean we’ve never seen McNabb or Vick hesitate and not throw the ball if a receiver isn’t wide open.
None of that’s really true. Just because you say it’s so, or wish it to be so doesn’t make it true.
Just because you remain utterly impervious to evidence that contradicts your preconceived notions doesn’t mean everyone has to.
In my Prozac-induced Jackson withdrawal hallucinations, I have visions of Maclin going down again. If Mac’s 100 per cent, we’ll be fine. But if not, (fingernails on blackboard) we will have a real hole in our offense.
We need to hit a home run in this draft–a playmaker on defense, and also an explosive WR. Hard to get both.
I think Maclin is 100% healthy. The Eagles wanted to sign him for five years I believe and you aren’t going to do that if you don’t think the player will stay healthy.
D3C:
Thoughts, as asked elsewhere, if Maclin has a break-out season. Do the Eagles pay? At what yearly rate for cap purposes would they go? [Mike Capelli comment asks this question]
Always like what you and D3F post.
Since the team already tried to sign him long term I think as long as the numbers reasonable, and I won’t discuss cap hit because to be honest I don’t know what the Eagles cap strategy is, then he should be back. Especially considering it seems to me the Eagles have no problem rewarding their own guys.
Good stuff.
He’s my former roommate so he gets all his good ideas from me.
Sprols is a huge upgrade over avant, if maclin is fine the offense will be better this year.
This kind of thinking utterly baffles me. The offensive was almost completely healthy this year with the exception of Maclin including an o-line which didn’t have a significant injury all year.
If anything completely breaks right and they are completely healthy again, the offense might be as good again but that is ‘ a lot of ifs’
Well the offensive line has nothing to do with desean release.
Is it “utterly baffling” to think foles and ertz will improve, sproles production will vastly outpace avant, and those increases will make up any shortfall from desean to maclin (who have very similar stats anyway).
Does that mean they’re going to let Maclin walk after he has a breakout season on his one year deal?
I also now have to question if the Jason Peters deal was smart.
“Talked to the NFLPA today, they said that’s the highest guarantee for any o-lineman at 32 years old or above. We just had to look at it almost like the pink elephant — what is it
worth to you? It may not be worth much to the next person, but what is
it worth to you? And they felt like, hey, that’s what he’s worth to us,
and we settled”
If money is so damn tight they probably should have thought about paying Jason Peters as a 32 year old lineman and not a pink elephant.
MC:
I’ve wondered the same thing about Maclin. He’s at $6MM for 1 season. If he puts up DJax 2013 numbers, how much will he want and — more important — how much of a bonus will it take to keep the WR-share of the salary cap somewhere in the teens compared to other teams.
Maclin may be the reason the Eagles take at last 2 WRs in the first 4 Rds. (My bets: Jordan Matthews and Josh Huff. Matthews is remarkably dedicated to his craft for a college kid, plus big and fast; and Huff’s from Oregon, has decent enough size . . . and knows the Kelly drill.)
As for Peters, I have to believe — after the past 3 weeks — that he’s viewed by Kelly as a real leader and great example for the younger players. A culture-setter. Not only does he come back from his injury, he loses weight and talks up how great the “Kelly Science” is, and he spends time schooling the younger kids.
Robert Herron from Wyoming may be another WR to keep an eye on a bit later in the draft.
Problem with Matthews is, for somebody who works on the jugs machine every day, he has terrible hands and the Eagles have hands as the number 1 trait they look for:
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/The-Four-Traits-The-Eagles-Want-In-A-WR/5eeac42b-5d3c-4959-8fb0-9376fd7fca54
My bets is Cooks and Beckham Jr are top (not even think about Evans who most likely are no. 1, but will be long gone). Both have great hands, run good routes, have great YAC ability and can block.
Great point on Matthews bad hands.
I’d forgotten that.
Still, as great as Cooks and Beck are, I really want a BIG receiver who can play . . . better than Cooper.
How about the idea of drafting Benjamin in the 2nd and Huff in the 3rd?
Please take a look at the breakdown in the link: http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-reports/2014/3/24/5538328/kelvin-benjamin
Benjamin has bad hands, doesn’t know how to run NFL routes, and Gil Brant brought up some off the field issues with his crew from home being mixed with money and NFL free time. The Eagles just indicated they’re not down with that already.
No thanks.
I’m firmly in the Benjamin will be a bust camp. To many red flags to take in rds 1-2
The thing is with Beckham and Cooks is they play much bigger than they are listed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCwKdJUVrno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCwKdJUVrno
I know they are highlights, but see how big the both play
Btw check out Davante Adams of Fresno State, guy is the whole package as well
For some reason, I didn’t see the word “machine” in your first sentence, the first time I read it. Changes things significantly…
well played
I’ve thought for a while that when Maclin’s contract needed an extension it’d be a straight choice between him and Jackson – there was just no way the Eagles would pay both of them as much money as they’d be able to get elsewhere.
When Maclin got a 1-year deal, I figured we’d wait until next year to move DeSean (or let Jeremy walk if that’s what was decided) but I’m not all that shocked to see it happen earlier. Maclin’s bigger, he runs better routes and, from what I can tell, he’s not as much of a douche – if they’ve already made their decision, might as well get Jackson’s salary off the books and use it to extend Maclin during the season.
As for the draft, I don’t think they need to take more than one WR early – they’re obviously happy with Maclin’s progress from his injury (based on the fact they tried to extend him long term already) and now that Jackson’s out of the way they can make him a better offer. If the right guy’s on the board then grab him, but I genuinely don’t think WR is a bigger need now than it was a couple weeks ago.
Oh and because everyone’s throwing names out there, I’d keep an eye on Abbrederis – seems like the kind of guy Kelly would love.
Tommy i can’t wait for your thoughts on how this affects the eagless’ draft. I tend to think this makes it more intriguing. Definitely think they are going best WR at 22.
Wouldn’t this article suggest defense in rd 1? If WRs are plug and play, why spend a 1st on them?
Roseman’s been laying the ground work for this move since the playoffs ended for the the Eagles.
First, a story comes out about how much money the Eagles have invested at the WR spot.
Second, he tries to get Maclin signed to a multi-year deal.
Third, Roseman says that in every round of the draft he expects the Eagles will find WRs they really like.
Conversely, Roseman’s talked about the shortage of pass rushers in free agency and among draft-eligible players.
Makes you wonder whether even if Mike Evans did a free-fall in Rd 1 and was within trading distance, the Eagles would make a move for him.
As opposed to Anthony Barr free-falling (which, I think, T-Law wrote is more likely).
i get that but at 22 would a defensive player be BPA? i would take cooks /OBJ over Haha /Pryor. Now if Barr slides to 22 then that’s a no brainer!!!
If Haha is available at 22 he is the clear cut best player available no question.
AA
ZZ
CC but NEVER CK
@ T-Law
“The minute a team lets it out that their top WR is on the market, other teams know something is up. That could an injury or contract issue or some off-field situation. The player immediately loses value.”
That’s correct. But not all the time. Harvin was injured, was in the last year of his contract, said he doesn’t want to resign with the Vikings and wanted a fat contract (so cap hit was more of a question for the Vikings than the Seahawks) and they still got 1st, 3rd and 7th. I know some are tired of the Harvin comparison, but I still think it’s fair to bring it up. And I expect the FO to be great, just like Chips expects his players to be great. Getting nothing is the tough part for me.
Isn’t a big difference there that Harvin wanted out? The Vikings could have kept him. Clearly, the Eagles decided they no longer wanted DeSean, which makes it a buyer’s market. Also, as discussed elsewhere, there were public, known risks about Harvin, not suspicious and subjective fears about his social activities or habits or whatever.
The Vikings said: “we have a talented but injured WR who wants out of here. We’re happy to keep him, but we also realize we’re unlikely to win it all with him this year so go ahead and try to blow us away,”
The Eagles had to say: “We have a talented WR who makes us super nervous with his off-the-filed behavior, work ethic, or whatever issue we have with him that we won’t share publicly. We would like to keep him because he makes our team better and we just made the playoffs, but we’re shopping him because of the above, so go ahead and try to blow us away,”
It’s just not a strong sales pitch and is very different than Harvin, other than
B —
Great point.
If the Eagles wanted to max-out their chances, they needed to start negotiations with DJax on a restructure. Let that info get out. Then make the play for a draft pick.
If things didn’t work out, cut Jackson.
Why crap all over the guy? What did Jackson do to tick off Lurie, Kelly, and Roseman that much?
That’s an interesting strategy for sure… Though you also diminish his value in a sense by saying “this guy won’t take a pay cut and now it’s getting ugly, can you take him off our hands?” Of course you might get something in return rather than nothing.
I will say you’re then hiding your real reasons, which if they came to light post trade would reflect negatively on future trades. I think Arby said “buyer beware” which is true, but unless you at least hint at something you become the guy nobody wants to do business with.
Separately, I’m curious what you think – with your legal mind – about the issue of slander. Are the Eagles tight lipped because they’re worried of future legal action from Jackson? And how would the slander angle apply to trade discussions if at all?
B–
1. In my scenario, the point was to project what the Vikings did with Harvin: “we like Jackson, we’re working on a restructure, but we’ll listen to you.” Nothing negative.
2. On the legal side, Jackson’s a “public figure.” Liability for defaming a public figure — by slander (oral statement) or libel (written statement) — requires, because of the 1st Amendment, proof that the speaker acted in reckless disregard of the truth. Essentially, the speaker either lies or ignores what’s so obvious and says the opposite. On the other hand, a statement about a public figure is NOT actionable if, even though false, the speaker engaged in some due diligence — even if those sources turn out to be wrong.
Here, I think there’s plenty of evidence out there for the Eagles to have said, with no threat of liability, that “based on our investigation of DeSean’s activities and associations, including his own postings on Instagram, that he *may* have personal associations that we deem detrimental to the team and the NFL.”
Or something like that.
But that’s if the Birds wanted to go there.
The easy out was for the Eagles to say, “We weren’t satisfied with DeSean’s commitment to the team.”
All that said, you always tell your client, “Don’t say anything you don’t want to see on the front page of the newspaper.”
Regarding DJax, I think Lurie’s call would have been “let’s leave the kid alone already.” Silence is golden.
Silence IS golden. Which is why you and others will enjoy the following response:
Great. Always great.
I bet it wasn’t a coincidence that you described libel as “…proof that the speaker acted in reckless disregard of the truth…” and that the release from Jackson’s camp yesterday labeled the reports of him being in a gang as reckless. That was a threat from his PR people, wasn’t it?
Just had a discussion with my in-house counsel re: slander and she said despite DeSean being a public figure, the fact that it might have direct professional consequences “could” make it a case. She also guessed there are plenty of outs in his contract, so maybe the slander thing is moot anyway.
She then suggested I stop posting about this and sit down to eat, so at the advice of my counsel I will refrain from any more rambling.
“I think Arby said “buyer beware” which is true, but unless you at least hint at something you become the guy nobody wants to do business with.”
To be fair, I also mentioned the WR cap burden. And also added team chemistry concerns. His value is lessened and perhaps that explains the “at least a 3rd rounder” opening request. But your point about not wanting to burn bridges with other GM’s is well taken.
Very true… I would never knowingly misrepresent you, Arby1 -you’re one of my faves, and not just because I start salivating when I read your name because I think of horsey sauce.
Horsey sause is in the mail, my good friend.
Show me where the Eagles crapped all over the guy…WIP callers, message-board posters, NJ reporters, yes, but not the team, nor team sources.
I will add that I’m also disappointed not to get any value for him, but I’m not sure how we could have presented a trade in such a way to get a good return, given the odd and mysterious nature of the situation.
In all seriousness, pretend you’re the GM and have decided you must get rid of DeSean – how do you do it and get return?
Well, I don’t like the decision. System is important, but talent is more important. Seattle, SF, NE, Denver did not dominate because of their great systems. Pro sports is not like the army where you can order 18 year old boys to charge a machine gun. You have to deal with grown men that are mini-businesses in themselves and make it all work somehow. You’re not a general, more like a CEO. “NFL team as college team” doesn’t work either. Now, DeSean Jackson was not a transcendental player who could consistently beat teams by himself, but he was a very good player who could sometimes do that, and anyway certainly take advantage of weaknesses when they presented themselves. WR just went from a position of strength to a Pinkston/Thrash level of mediocrity. Nor do I think that an exaggeration. Opposing D’s have one less thing to worry about, Foles’ margin for error will be less, Shady will have to do more.
Wow, are you saying that Maclin/Cooper are not better than Pinkston/Thrash? I will have to disagree. When Maclin is healthy he actually put up bigger numbers than DeSean in the past. Cooper has shown last season that he can play at a higher level than previous seasons. Your logic is flawed, DeSean is not Megatron and losing him may hurt alot less then you think. Do some research on Chip Kelly and his history as a coach from his early beginnings until today and you will see a pattern. This guy knows how to win games. I think he’s lost six games out of 40 in his tenure as HC at Oregon. he has done this with inferior players at times. I think our Eagles will be just fine and will be even better in 2014 without DJax.
Seattles system turned 5th round CBs into lock down CBs, there was a reason why Byron Maxwell could step just right in.
NE has a very specific system on defense as well. Kelly has that on offense and an idea what he wants on defense (just opposite of Pete Carroll who is the defensive master mind with and idea what he wants on offense and he will only draft/get players who fit that system)
Also if we are talking Seattle offense, they have a very specific type of WRs, that are the exact same as what Kelly wants. He wants WRs who can block and make plays down the field
Coaches make the diffence;
John Wooden
Phil Jackson
But would Phil have bought out Michael’s or Kobe’s contract if he threw up a gang sign? If Phil did, would he have still won?
Not that DJacc is Michael/Kobe… But still hard to replace.
In Chicago few teams had the same personnel,
same coach(admittedly MJ)
UCLA won 10 titles in 12 years
players moved on coach remained
(7 undefeated teams in NCAA history ,
4 of them coached by JW)
Coaches make the difference.
You meant to say Larry Brown. Phil Jackson walked into two ready made title situations and stayed out of the way.
OK, maybe but sometimes doing nothing is the smart thing to do…Not everyone is able to understand that…
Like, if you build me a great car and I drive to victory,
do you still want credit?… I`ll give you a wave and mention you as I accept the trophy.
http://miketanier.sportsonearthblog.com/small-receivers-big-impact/
Small Receivers, Big Impact
I’m willing to buy that Chip subscribes to this line of thinking, but why let Jackson go now? It’s not like there are good, available defensive players on which to spend this reallocated cap room. If the point is that Chip views him as expendable and isn’t willing to pay him 10 million to not do things the Chip Kelly way, then that makes sense.
Take the cap hit this season instead of next? Is that how it would have worked?
Dead money is dead from the moment you pay it out as a signing bonus. The only difference is when you get the cap hit. The Eagles could have designated Desean as a June 1 cut and split the 6M dead money between this year and next, or just take the hit this year. Probably doesn’t make much difference, though, since they’d be rolling over more than $3M into next year in any case. It still saves the Eagles over 6M this year in cap even if they take the full dead money hit this year.
I seem to remember an Eagles head coach who thought that his passing scheme was so good that he didn’t need a top-shelf WR to win.
And that same coach thought that pass rushers were the most important players on defense.
Seems that Kelly and this “former Eagles head coach” shares some of the same personnel principles. Yes, the current 3-4 is different from the previous the 4-3. But *Pressure* on the QB is what both coaches want.
Come to think of it, Sean Payton sees things much the way Reid and Kelly do.
_________________
Who’s idea was it to give Jackson $10.5 million per season? Management had to know that, at that number, Jackson would be nearly unmovable in the future — short of a restructure.
Great point. It’s easy to overlook that Desean’s contract was a big mistake. Could resigning Desean to reduce his cap hit this year and then trying to move him have been viable?
Regarding a restructure, if Jackson weren’t the headache Kelly found him to be, I think a restructure would’ve been doable.
But it seems Kelly wanted him out. Fast.
@ AC
“Come to think of it, Sean Payton sees things much the way Reid and Kelly do.”
Not a bad group to be in, if you ask me. Plus, all three are masters at working with QBs.
One remark, though: it’s Reed. Haven’t you reed what DJax wrote?
Bill Belichick thinks the same way. If you have the QB and the OL. Funny how both Kelly, Payton, Reid and Belichick all had no problem paying the big men and potential the QB, you can just plug and play the skill position players
After reading everything that was listed/printed about the entire incident, it is clear that this has been in the works since the offseason ended.
Still don’t understand why the Eagles didn’t move more decisively and quickly though this offseason. If they wanted Jackson gone, they should have done it prior to or early in FA.
Essentially now they achieved the worst outcome: $6M cap hit, little left over in FA, and no draft pick/player in return.
You can debate if Jackson on-field’s contributions were outweight by all of the other issues but from a tactical and a strategic standpoint the timing of this move & what the Eagles got in return (nothing) is a failure. Can’t spin that any other way.
absolutely, justified or not, this was a fiasco. Going to need a pretty sick draft.
Birds may have had to wait until after free agency’s first couple weeks.
Why make a trade if you can acquire a WR for money only?
But the Birds were dropping a trail of bread crumbs, it seems, to lay the groundwork.
Didn’t work out so well, though.
Possibly given Jackson’s salary but now the Eagles just have egg on their face and nothing to show for it.
BS77:
I agree with you. But I guess I wasn’t clear.
What I’m saying is the Eagles could have put out *dis-information* about negotiation with DJax to restructure his deal. All they had to do was call his agent and raise the subject.
That creates the illusion of the Eagles wanting to keep DJax but being willing to move him for the right price.
Maybe a team bites and gives a pick.
That said, a competent GM would check with the agent to see if a restructure is possible before trading anything but a 7th Rd pick.
Not like the Eagles didnt have the money before to go after any FA they wanted.
This also enlightlins on us why they secured Cooper and Maclin so fast.
The cap hit would had been here no matter when they released him this year, we had enough money and now has an extra 6.5 to carry over.
Could have improved the depth on defense a bit especially at LB where there is little/known right now.
Who should they have gotten?
If you were going into the draft anyway for a WR, why not sign Decker instead of Maclin? Or Tate instead of Maclin.
Because Decker wanted more money?
Decker was 5 years $36.5 million. That is only $1.5 mil / year higher than Maclin’s deal. Considering Decker’s far superior skill to Maclin, it would have been fine. It isn’t like Decker was out for Vincent Jackson / Mike Wallace money.
I wouldnt say Decker is far superior than Maclin
We’ll have to remain in disagreement on that. I see Maclin as one of the most consistently overrated players by the segment of the fan base that hates Jackson. Tommy didn’t dub him “self-tacklin Maclin” out of spite.
Odds are we won`t see that…if so,he`ll be off the field and with him the $$$ he wants. Self tacklin Maclin is a ghost of the past that will not come back to haunt the Eagles.
Tommy didn’t give him the nickname, I believe Kempski did.
Exactly. The timing of this represents a complete and total organizational failure. The gang stuff was known since, at least, 2009. Why not simply release him after the malcontent season of 2011 if that was a big deal? The Eagles would have been able to use the draft or free agency to acquire more talent at wide out in 2012, 2013, and 2014. Now we only have the 2014 draft. Even if they release him a month ago, there is a chance to hit the free agent market at WR and not be stuck with inferior talent at the position going into what needs to be a growth year.
Stupid all the way around, and I’m still not convinced there is a legitimate reason that outweighs the talent. If LT can be high on coke day and night, Charles Haley can put his junk in the face of teammates (google it if you don’t know the story), and Michael Irvin can STAB a teammate with scissors in the locker room; I can’t see anything other than Kelly not knowing how to manage personalities of pro athletes as the main culprit here.
How about Kelly spoke with the FO and said Jackson is not in my vision for the future of this team; Fo tried to trade,no takers;Kelley says OK I`ll take advantage of his ability this season,but that`s it…Tried again to trade but again no takers;all got together,discussed the future and Jackson`s time had run out.
FO,Kelly decided life would be better going forward w/o one extremely self-centered,non- team-first(me…look at me!!!) (great, however a pretty much one demensional) player…
just a thought
100% plausible, so they can feel free to have a press conference where Lurie / Roseman / Kelly all answer questions for as long as it takes to get all of this answered.
And one cannot possibly call Jackson a worse teammate than Michael Irvin, but Jimmy Johnson found a way to make that work. There isn’t a single NFL titlist in the past 20 years that doesn’t have at least one player of Jackson’s personality on it.
“Why not simply release him after the malcontent season of 2011 if that was a big deal?”
Reid was calling the shots then and he didn’t care about that stuff as much as Chip does. DeSean wouldn’t have even been on the eagles draft board in 2008 if Chip was here back then.
I may be misinterpreting the cap dynamics, but I believe this effectively saves 10.5 mill in cap space: 6.5 mill this year + 4 mill in future cap hits that have been accelerated. This could easily be justified as a sound decision for the future of the team, given the importance of cap for team building. If you are going to overpay to keep one of your own, he needs to be a positive influence. Considering the current WR market, a good argument could be made that DeSean is not worth 10.5 mill. The offense would undoubtedly be better with him on the field. But the team is probably better off with 10.5 mill in cap room and having it’s highest paid players be leaders. I think Sproles, Jenkins and Donnie Jones will combine to do more to help us win than DeSean, for the same money.
They don’t have $10.5M in cap room and what exactly are the Eagles going to spend that on now? There are table scraps right now left in FA at this point.
Might take on a veteran salary on draft day but Roseman has been like a broken record about building through the draft. Eagles don’t have an abundance of picks this year.
Cutting Jackson for purely cap room this season makes zero sense.
Cap carries over to the next year. The offense is better off right now than it was in 2013. Not because losing Jackson doesn’t hurt, but because Sproles and Maclin are great weapons. This was a move made with foresight that most franchises lack.
Eagles fans have ‘Stockholm Syndrome.’ Maclin is a downgrade from Jackson. Sproles is a question mark and if he isn’t an impact as a KR/PR on special teams the Eagles overpaid for him.
Everyone stayed healthy on the offense last year except Maclin. Chances of that again are pretty much close to 0%.
Basically leaning heavily again on McCoy next year and it just frustrate me a bit that the Eagles are apparently willing to risk a ‘mediocre season’, miss the playoffs, and waste what is likely one of the 2 or 3 remaining years of McCoy’s prime. He’ll be in this 6th season next year and yet the impression you get on here at times is that he’ll be a stud for the next 4 or 5 years. Maybe he is an outlier but I would bet against it especially if he sees the kind of utilization he did last year the next 2 years.
1 step back, 2 steps forward?
Best-case yeah although I do want to see how the draft plays out. This offseason was disappointing so far though without a real clear goal of moving ahead forward & heavily relying upon the draft to pay immediate and meaningful dividends this year at multiple positions.
Best-case scenario is that the Eagles win a diluted and mediocre NFC East again at 9-7/10-6 and worst case is they go 7-9 or 8-8 and are home in Jan.
Fairly mediocre team overall right now unless there is a real improvement in ST all around but the Eagles still have the same questionable K and no clear answer at KR/PR. If that unit improves, it will be due to the upgrade in coverage.
All of that is true (except the hostage thing). But overpaying for Jackson doesn’t make that stuff go away. He was not cut purely for cap room. He was cut because in order to make that kind of money you need to be a positive influence on your teammates, or be stupid good. Jackson has unique abilities, but is far from being well-rounded. Injuries happen, but resources are limited. He was luxury they decided they could not afford. It’s almost certain that for 2015 to 2017 this will be a move that improves the team. Obviously the Eagles decided that it would improve them more than the loss of Jackson for 2014. I might question a short-sighted decision made by a coach desperate to keep his job. But in this case I feel confident that Kelly and company are making a better informed decision than you or me.
I’m not sure I agree that Maclin is a downgrade from Jackson, either.
Didn`t he not play for almost two years,? so really would only be in his 4th season as far as wear n` tear on his body.
True. But take “this season” out of your sentence and it makes a lot more sense.
Think of it this way – if Jackson’s salary was 3 mill, do you think the Eagles would have had any trouble trading him? Other teams balked at the cap hit, not the char issues.
Brown’s theory is interesting but not applicable in 2014. It’s not like the team couldn’t have cut/traded DeSean a year from now to free up extra money for the defense in 2015. To say nothing of the $15 million in cap savings Philly would have if they could replace Ryans and Cole next off-season.
The Eagles’ cap situation does not offer a valid reason for the team to release Jackson at this time.
Show us where the Eagles’ other players rallied around Jackson. They didn’t. Hmmm. There’s one reason. All the questions about gangs. break in, etc. add up after awhile, along with salary too high for a WR in this year’s market. Many small irritating questions begin to equal one valid reason.
Good read Tommy,
When one player is getting paid over 10 million, he better be worth every penny. But when the same player voices through media channels that he wants more, it’s almost like a slap in the face.
As much as I loved DeSean, I have come to understand that he just wasn’t worth that much money and trying to convince him to restructure would have been met with major resistance, especially since he has a new agent looking to get paid.
The gang ties didn’t help his image and may have been the last straw in a long list of reasons for the Eagles to make this move. If we didn”t have Kelly as our HC, I would be more concerned but I feel confident that he will prove his worth when this offense soars again in 2014.
When you got Maclin, Coop, Sproles, Ertz, Celek, and then you consider Arellious Benn is due back from injury, we can still be very optimistic about our receiving corps. I hope Benn has fully recovered from injury and is able to crack the starting rotation. If he can come in and play at a high level, then we may just forget all about Jackson.
It basically is on Kelly although set up a tough expectations to hurdle. Clearly said he expects the team to improve next year & to take the next step forward. To me at a minimum that means making the playoffs again and winning at least a game (if not more). Imagine that also means 10+ wins and winning the NFC East again too.
I agree with the comments by a few people that noted the theory from Brown fails to address the timing of this. DJax’s price tag was a piece of the puzzle, but just one of the pieces that make up the background of the image. If it isn’t there, things look different, but it doesn’t draw much attention in isolation.
So much for “Smart Football” first tweet in. Iggles are already way under the cap, and cutting DJax is still a $6M cap hit. Stopped reading.
A Tale of TWO Cities? I only care about one city at a time. Stopped reading.
His second tweet references the fact that he’s not worth the headache. This is in part because Chip may not thinks he needs elite talent at that position. The next 4 tweets support that idea. He doesn’t even really suggest that the Eagles cut DJacc for the cap room.
Feeling surprisingly bummed out by the negativity surrounding the team ATM. Sadly I feel like this is a cloud that is going to hang over the team until we get back to winning football games next September.
I’ll be bummed over this until we have anther pro bowler who can put up 82-1300-9 AND be primed to improve upon it the next season.
OR
They can win a title, but it’s a shame they’re acting like they’ve won several when they’ve won nothing since 1960.
They are not acting like anything. They are still putting together a team of “Chip type players”, which includes very high character leaders and he’s going cut anybody that does not conform to his vision.
So far in is his very first season in the NFL and also becoming a HC no less, I think we can all agree that 95% of his decisions made thus far have been good if not great.
Taking a 4-12 team and turning that team into division winners in one season is remarkable.
With or without DJax, I think this team can thrive as Chips offensive schemes are sound and it usually puts defenses at a disadvantage. We always seem to have a hole for Shady to run through and receivers are getting open regularly.
If we can get our defense to play a little bit better then we are all in for a nice 2014 season.
Go Eagles !!!
There is always hole for Shady to run through and there is always a receiver open because there is always a safety staying deep on Jackson’s side of the field.
Ray Rhodes took this team to 10-6 (and a playoff win, rather than a choke loss) in his first season as coach as well. I believe Kelly will be a better coach than Rhodes, but I’m not giving anybody the benefit of the doubt in this situation unless they’ve earned it with some hardware.
There is always hole for Shady to run through and there is always a
receiver open because there is always a safety staying deep on Jackson’s
side of the field
Jackson had value as a deep threat, but this just plain isn’t true. He’s missed his share of games over the past several seasons and the running game and production of the other receivers did not suffer for it.
No. The fans are pretending that production by committee can replace what Jackson provided for us.You’re counting on 5 guys to make up for what one guy has done. That’s an additional gamble that an ascending team shouldn’t have to make when their window is going to close in a few years.
Sure the numbers might look good for Chip but this was already a talented team from the start. Chip just came in and removed the gunk from it. Besides playing in a regressing division with piss poor secondary has helped him win games.
To be fair, this has divided the fanbase from the optimists to the realists. I see the team regressing. Division rivals have improved their rosters, our OL and only star offensive player is older, and our schedule is harder.
Optimists would probably claim it has divided the realists from the Negadelphians.
I cannot imagine how 54 straight years of failure would lead the most knowledgeable segment of the fan base to take a “show me” approach to moves by the team prior to being ok with them.
How about the fact that 50+ of those years took place under completely different management structures and are thus irrelevant? Whereas the returns from the tenures of the current GM/coach tandem are largely positive? The failures of Joe Kuharich, Rich Kotite, and even Andy Reid are not germane to evaluating the performance of Kelly and Roseman.
By your logic even if a 2014 Ford gets excellent reviews from the motor mags I should refuse to buy it because the 1975 Pinto was a crappy car. That doesn’t make sense.
I infer that this is a sarcastic comment attempting to equate those labeled Negadelphians with realists, but taking a wait and see approach is a long way from the Chicken Little, “I’ll be bummed over this until we have anther pro bowler who can put up 82-1300-9 AND be primed to improve upon it the next season.” position.
I am taking a wait and see approach. I question whether the improvements to the culture will be sufficient to counteract the loss of talent. But in the meantime, I’ll be looking for signs that the offense will be productive, which I think it will, and that the cultural impacts might carry over to the defense and special teams, which is where we need to improve.
Setting up the expectations that this move is a failure if they don’t immediately replace DJax with an equally productive player is myopic and (ahem) unrealistic.
And you don’t possibly see how the removal of a multiple time pro-bowler coming off of his best season at age 27 is a cause for skepticism?
Where did I ever give that impression?
I said I have questions. That skepticism is realistic. Where I get off is the stop before we head into ‘this ruins all our draft plans, we are lost until we find an equal quality WR, now our window will close’ territory. To me, those stops are in Negadelphia.
I look at it like Pink Floyd losing Syd Barret. He was a star, but he was bringin the band down big time. Roger Waters stepped up,and we all saw what happened…so ya never know. Management felt it was time to cut ties and move on. Hopefully to an improved group, of players.
First Pink Floyd reference I can remember on Iggles Blitz. Well done, rock n’ roll brother.
Well, Pink Floyd and The Trammps both did a tune about the Dark Side of the Moon.
have not had the pleasure of listening to the Tramps, but musically I`ll try anthing once.
Recently saw a bbc special about them,just sorta saw a parallel. Took a shot.
Is there any real difference between the two in the first place?
Not too long ago on the Blitz someone( too many well informed contributors to remember who) pointed out where most of Jackson`s impressive #s came when playing with Vick. After Foles took over Jackson`s production would have gotten him a cut in pay
(if the nfl would do such a thing(and why not, all want more after performing well,yet no one offers to take a paycut after under performing). Definately he contributed –as a decoy,since teams respected him as a threat…Time will tell,but I doubt he`ll be missed in Kelly`s offense.
I’m not too thrilled to have to spend a high pick on a WR when we have so many other positions to address. It’s a set back for the team regardless of not missing a beat on offense next season.
I wonder if a high draft for a WR has ever been in the plans…Offense will add players in the later rounds(deep talent); think they`ll go for BPA defensively 1&2,possibly 3 if there.
You’ll never know since the way Howie operates is pretty erratic.The Ertz and Barkley pick last year weren’t something we could have predicted. I just hope we don’t make another mistake like Watkins/Jarret.
Agree to an extent…however Kelly, for time being, has as close to first hand exprience(one year removed) as you can get, so he`ll have a better understanding of the college talent. Still think Barkely will be a quality NFL QB and Ertz has already proven himself.Each were chosen as BPA,where as Watkins and Jarret were drafted to fill a need, which they almost immediately needed replacing themselves.
Most head coaches have had experience with the draft/game since they’ve either transitioned from college to the NFL or vice versa.
It’s quite possible that Ertz was a need pick. Chip wanted to run more 2 TE sets and he wasn’t happy with Harbor/Casey/camp bodies.
This is the Year of the Wide Receiver, remember? There are undoubtedly several of interest to all teams.
This is a good point as it indicates the extent to which DeSean is a one dimensional threat. Foles doesn’t have the pure arm stregnth that Vick does, so Jackson wasn’t as valuable with Nick under center. I really wouldn’t ve surpised if DeSean ends up with the Jets (but not the ones in West Side Story).
At least that would make Vick happy…who knows maybe he`s the calming influence the young..man needs.
Division rivals have improved their rosters, our OL and only star offensive player is older, and our schedule is harder.
How do you figure? The Cowboys and Giants are both aging teams that lost key veterans in free agency, and the Redskins are going to remain a dumpster fire as long as Snyder owns the team because of his meddling. As for the schedule, the NFC East portion is the same, and they’re playing an AFC South with three of the worst teams in football and one playoff team rather than an AFC West with three playoff teams and one of the worst teams in football as was the case last year. The NFC West is likely to be tougher than the NFC North was but until the season actually roles around and we see who’s healthy there’s no way of knowing for sure that Seattle or San Francisco will maintain their previous level of play. I think this year’s schedule and last year’s are a wash at worst.
Vegas agrees. The rest of the NFCE all had longer odds after FA than they did before. Only we improved (although I imagine we might have slipped a bit in the last two days.
The Cowboys lost Ware and replaced Hatcher with Henry Melton. The Giants might have lost players like Nicks, Joseph, and Tuck but they’ve drafted to replace them last year. Their mess of a secondary arguably got better with just an off-season to recover.
The AFC South? You’d have be crazy to think that they’re not on the rise. The Texans have enough talent to get back into the playoffs. The Jaguars and Titans have always gave us fits. The Colts are the Colts. Not to mention, the other South conference could bounce back and we will have more competition for seeding/wildcard.
Seattle/San Fran are powerhouses because they draft well enough to mask some of their weaknesses. I don’t think that will change anytime soon..until they finally get hit in the groin by their cap handling.
Hatcher to Melton is a lateral move at best. Who are the Giants replacing the guys they lost with? Unproven younger players we don’t know are any good. And even if their secondary did get better, it’s still bad.
The AFC South? Give me a break. The Titans have a new coach, and Jake Locker sucks. The Texans had the worst record in football last year and will have a rookie quarterback. The Jags were for my money the worst team in football last year. And the Colts, while the cream of the division, are not a powerhouse on par with last year’s Broncos. That is not a difficult division.
As for the Seahawks/49ers – they are both good teams but in today’s NFL age and injury can bring down even the most seemingly robust contenders very quickly. The 49ers are already missing one of their best defensive players (Bowman) and offseason training hasn’t even started. You can’t take anything for granted, including the supposed “powerhouse” status of an opponent on the next year’s schedule.
Melton was easily one of the best DTs in the league before his injury. Hatcher had a good year but he’s old so that’s already an improvement if he can get back into form (which I hope he doesn’t). The Giants already had interchangeable DEs with Tuck and Kiwi. Randle has been pretty good for the #3 and has his chance to shine now. Jonathan Hankins is the only unproven one.
The Texans might have a rookie QB but with Foster returning and their starters getting time to heal then it’s very likely that they’ll be back in playoff contention. The Jags do suck but the times we’ve played them we stoop down to their level for odd reasons. The Titans have young talent and a stout defense. They hanged with decent teams. The Colts will.probably be wildcard contenders until Luck regresses.
Let’s see. The Eagles will replace one star player with others who won’t be as good, because you can see into the future. the cowboys have replaced a star player with another who will somehow be as good or better. Can you see into the Cowboys’ future too? Or maybe you’re a secret fan of Dallas?
Who’s the replacement for DeSean? Maclin? When was he ever a star? He has been a #2 since he was drafted and has his last chance of proving that he can finally be a #1 receiver. You’ve probably never heard of Melton in the first place.
I’ve heard of Melton. Did you forget that he’s coming off of a major injury that might change his style of play?
Only players the Eagles sign are considered injury risks. When something like the Cowboys signing Melton happens, it’s a rival getting a superstar player at a discount price. /sarcasm
Frankly I think the very fact that he described Melton as the best defensive tackle in football makes it easy to write off his whole line of argument as irrationally negative hysteria.
Mr. “worst case scenario” is heard from.
We think we know how Chip Kelly thinks but in reality we are just learning..He is a mad genius,they don’t think like the rest of us
I’m wondering something similar. is Chip a man of such integrity that he simply won’t abide by someone like DeSean on his team, a skilled businessman who thinks his wr wasn’t worth the money, or is he still a college coach at heart that doesn’t understand how to manage professional adults? Maybe some combination? The fine line between genius or idiot might be the teams record this year.
Andy Reid also had a bunch of bum receivers in his “system” with Na Brown, Torrence Small, Pinkston and Thrash. How’d that work out? He couldn’t get over the hump until he had a game changer in TO.
Except, no. T.O. missed the entire 2004 playoff run except for the Super Bowl, which the Eagles lost. Another myth busted.
Your right. We still would have gone 14-2 with Pinkston, Thrash and Greg Lewis leading the way.
They had the best record in the NFC and were the #1 seed in each of the previous two seasons with those guys. They also had almost identical offensive numbers. T.O. improved them but the belief that he single-handedly “got them over the hump” is not remotely supported by the evidence.
What he added was attitude.
Took`m to one puke away from a title
Show me data that support that, and I’ll believe it.
They didn’t get over the hump. maybe partly because TO was too busy making commercials about humping, instead of working with his teammates.
It was a better defense in 2004 that was the difference.
In 2006, they were a false start from the NFCCG with Garcia at QB, with a piss poor defense and Stallworth and Brown as the WRs.
TO was grossly overrated, say, how did he do in Dallas?
I also think if McNabb doesn’t get hurt in 2002 and Westbrook doesn’t get hurt in 2003 it’s possible they go to the Super Bowl in one or both of those years.
The T.O. mythology is over-the-top ridiculous.
When we played last year teams knew they had to double DeSean, but if you don’t have that type player its harder for them to decide who to double.. Watching Oregon it seems like they rolled Wr’s in and out of the game
Someone else may have touched on this, but there’s 100+ comments already so I’m not going to go look for it, but the front office couldn’t lie to other teams in order to work out a deal. Louis Riddick brought up the point on ESPN, that it’s a relationship league. If teams are actively trying to “win” trades by deception, then it’s highly likely that they will find it hard to work out deals later on.
Indeed. When you have a limited market, deceiving buyers about the nature of your product is a bad strategy. If used car salesmen only had 31 potential customers in the entire world, who all knew each other and monitored each others’ purchases carefully, they’d never even try to sell lemons.
agree, that’s not a smart way to operate, especially that in all likelihood they are going to be moving picks on and before the draft.. and if he had that bad a character that you wouldn’t feel good trading him to someone, you definitely don’t want him in your young impressionable locker room
No, talent is talent, regardless of whether it’s on D or O.
You can replace the numbers, as austinfan repeatedly promises. What I will promise is that the number will vary a lot more. You’ll beat bad teams with good numbers, but your numbers will drop more (during meaningful play) against good teams with good defenses. Then you will have to rely on the defense being great.
NO’s 2009 team featured a defense that had a good year getting TOs, if not quite to the level of the 2006 Bears or anything like that. More to it than, hey! that WR corps was cheap and not that talented!
That saints team is the D he is trying to get to.. cutting Jax this year rather than next gets the cap hit this year to keep the room extending Foles, Cox, Boykin and Kendricks, while still having room to sign FA’s. you cant scheme to create turnovers as much as you can scheme to get offensive players the football in space.
Eh, what?
Bill Davis isn’t Gregg Williams–Greg Williams ran a relatively exotic scheme
give a decent DC good pieces and he can produce great results.. Williams made the most of his pieces.. If Davis has better talent than Williams he might get the same results
It is more difficult to generate those results with sub par talent on D than it is on O,. For example a great receiver can have a bass game and the offence can still score 30 with production from other areas, a decent CB having a bad game can kill a defence because the opposing offence will pick on the guy all game.. So if the thinking is get the talent that fits the scheme(most important part. Ie not just good players) on D and let the system get decent but not great players the ball in space on O then I think that’s a good plan..
Totally agree. Scheme to get the offense back on the field. Turnovers are a bonus not an overall plan.
Jackson was often less productive versus good teams than he was versus bad teams. Your theory would seem to suggest that the reason is he lacked talent, but I’m thinking it was more due to the fact that the defense was good.
All good players are less productive against good teams. At the end of the day, against some of the better teams, DJax has made his plays.
and Jackson`s production in the last two
,especially the final and most important game
How`d that turn out.
Well, he made the catches responsible for the late comeback as good it’d do for the Eagles.
As for the Cowboys, nobody with speed go the ball, you know. Kinda the prerogative of the QB.
Big physical WR lke Nelson and even Stevie Johnson on Buffalo do well against good defenses. It’s the fast finesse guys who disappear when the refs swallow their whistles.
“You’ll beat bad teams with good numbers…”
Jackson in a nutshell.
I think you need to believe that more than it was ever true.
The other thing is I’m not sure how the remarks about NO’s D matter. You don’t see teams winning with stud WRs and no D. You definitely can’t win anything if your whole team sucks, but that’s obvious.
Jackson was great against bad teams. But against top-notch physical secondaries, he really was neutralized fairly easily.
Your true superstar receivers – Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, Dez Bryant, etc. – that doesn’t happen to. Jackson is a top 15 receiver, borderline top 10, but he’s not an irreplaceable talent.
Djax is the best deep threat wr in the league. he’s had one mf the most productive careers in the last 20 years.
Nope. Among players with 50+ catches, he was fifth in the league in YPC behind Josh Gordon, Calvin Johnson, Torrey Smith, and Vernon Davis (a TE). He didn’t lead the league in catches over 20 yards either – that would be Gordon, who had 30 to Jackson’s 25 (while playing with far inferior quarterbacks – none of the guys who started a game for the Browns last year could hold the jockstrap of Vick or Foles).
DJax is a good receiver. But he’s not the best in the league at anything – not even the thing he’s best at.
He’s got the highest deep ball catch rate of any receiver with over 40 catches (not bad for a guy that’s 5’10). In terms of expected points added he’s third behind Boldin and D. Thomas. By yds and approximate value Djax is one of the best WRs of the last 25 years (no. 15 in yds through first 6 seasons).
Thinking about J. Gordon, V. Davis, B. Marshall all of thse dudes were problematic for their franchises (moreso than djax) not may choir boy WRs that can do what he does.
I didn’t say those other guys are choirboys. I said that they are all around better players than Jackson. And I don’t think that’s disputable.
Again, even in the area where he’s strongest (the deep ball), Jackson is not the best. And for a #1 receiver he’s middling in other areas (catch rate, drop %, etc.).
I repeat: good player. But calling him one of the best receivers of the last 25 years is a joke. He’s not even the best Eagles receiver of the last 10 years.
Actually, DeSean struggles against any team that can press cover.
Cooper and Maclin are bigger, and can fight off the press better than DeSean, who’s big games came against soft zones last year.
Rileys dont? You think Cooper can beat a no.1 corner when he’s not dropping wide open passes in playoff games. Those two are no where near eachother in talent level.
IMO, both of them don’t play to their size.
So Ray Rice gets indicted by a jury for assaulting his fiance and gets to stay on the team, but DeSean does NOTHING and gets cut?
Different team, different circumstances. and Front Offices do not get all emotional over their employees.
I think saying DeSean did nothing is a bit naive, but DeSean and Rice do have one major thing in common – neither one of them represents the Eagles.
Ravens didn’t even release Ray Lewis when he was indicted on murder charges. Doubt they care about this either.
1. Redskins to meet with jax according to NFL.com. Lord help me if the Skins sign Jax and our piss poor secondary has to face him 2x a year. RG-3 to DeSean will be painful..PAINFUL.
2. Nick Foles is NOT Drew Brees. Brees receivers don’t need to bail him out. SO sure an actual elite Qb may be able to get away with so-so wide receivers, but I wouldn’t bank on that for everyone else.
And Chip Kelly’s offense is not Sean Payton’s. No one is saying Nick Foles is Drew Brees. Foles has something Brees doesn’t get the luxury of having, a stellar OL and a great run-game. Then again, with a QB like Brees, why would you run the ball.
Small aside, Drew Brees is my idol, but I really wonder what Sean Payton’s offense will look like without him.
Payton’s offense would look like the one he coordinated for the Giants under Jim Fassel from 2000-02. Not so great. Fassel eventually relieved Payton of the play-calling duties.
But Payton was well regarded in coaching circles, apparently.
He landed on his feet after leaving the NYGs as Bill Parcell’s Asst HC/QB coach in Dallas.
3 years later he was the Saints’ new HC.
The problem in NY may not have been Payton. Looks that way from here.
No surprise that DJax is going to D.C. first.
A chance to play twice per season against his old team.
A chance to play for an owner who’s a pretty reckless spender and loves nothing more than marquee names to tout.
Especially after we embarrassed them twice last year.
When did Brees ever go 27-2?
Look at both Maclin and Cooper with Foles. Great numbers.
Look at DeSean in Chip’s offense, career highs.
Maybe Chip and Foles are as good as Peyton and Brees?
Dude, I respect your love for chip and nick, however comparing this duo to future hall of famers is a bit far fetched. If it turns out to become reality though, I will buy you a hash tag.
austinfan is one of the best analytical posters here. he can back up any argument with numbers and stats to support his posts. I am not saying you have to agree, but if you want to disagree… have some substance to your rebuttal.
Griffin’s going to be so busy running for his life behind that crappy O line that he won’t have time to look downfield for Jackson. Chainsaw Dan Snyder has never gotten the basic fact of football that after you have a quarterback you build a winning team around him from the lines out rather than with splashy big name skill players and he still doesn’t. I’ll never fear the Redskins as long as he’s the owner.
As for DJax against our secondary, that doesn’t worry me much either. He’s never done particularly well against physical coverage and that is exactly what our cornerbacks are known for playing.
The Saints receivers haven’t been so-so, they are good, they just have a lot of them.
This is the reasoning that led me, back on Jan 20, to predict the Eagles would re-sign Cooper and Maclin and move DeSean, although I thought they would get some value for him. The prediction is in a comment on “A Few Notes on Maclin”, on Birds 24/7. It’s just too obvious that you can plug a rookie into that position and get 60-70% of DJax’s production for 20% of the cost, and invest the savings at other positions. Just basic cap management.
this is gonna be a total train wreck when the Redskins sign DeSean on monday
We’ll never see a more motivated DJax than the one who signs with the Washington team (if he does) — twice per year, at least, he’ll be ultra-motivated.
You should know by now that DeSean has a big Chip on his shoulder. Don’t think that signing with a direct NFC east rival will be of any difference.
OK, the big “Chip” remark is pretty clever.
Thank you. Finally someone could see my cleverness. lol 😉
I guess you and I are a Chip off the same block.
Heard the same things about Trotter, Owens, and McNabb. None of them came back to haunt the Eagles, not sure where the fear that Jackson will comes from.
TO in 3 years w/ Romo had 3500 yds and 38tds
Yeah and his team was mediocre, won exactly one playoff game during that span (fewer than the Eagles), and never came close to winning the Super Bowl. So my point stands.
Cowboys haven’t won a playoff game since.
A thought that continues to brighten my days.
yea, but I suspect majority of Eagles fans had nothing against the Eagles cutting a HoF WR because he took it out in the public. What if Jackson is like TO behind doors?
From an Xs and Os perspective, there are obvious downsides. But I can understand Chris Brown’s reasoning, that perhaps those downsides aren’t so huge and other factors outweight them.
From a locker room perspective, it might be a good thing, and result in improvements to team performance. Maybe.
From a fan perspective, though, Desean was always a difficult player to like. I didn’t know much about any gang/criminal ties. The thing I found offputting was the show-pony stuff – dropping the ball before the endzone, falling backwards into the endzone, etc. Even if he was ‘our’ show-pony, he’s still a show-pony, and there are few things in sport better than seeing a show-pony get their come-uppance. And relying on a show-pony in tough times is always fraught – I never felt comfortable relying on Djax in big games.
Hopefully, this is a wake-up call, and he learns from it. If he does, I hope he does well at his new team.
“NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports the Chiefs have dropped out of the running for free agent DeSean Jackson.
This should send up an immediate red flag to other interested teams, based on coach Andy Reid’s history with Jackson. Kansas City also has a wide receiver need. Per RapSheet, the Chiefs “did research” on D-Jax, and opted against signing him. Jackson is scheduled to visit the Redskins on Monday. Many national reporters expect Dan Snyder to out-bid the field for 27-year-old Jackson.”
We will be witnessing a brutal revenge of the football Gods on Monday.
When signing DeSean the Redskins will be the ones having the last laugh after the McNabb trade rip off and being made fun by all the Eagles fans over the last few years. If Jimmy K. has balls he will post #LolEagles on twitter for a change.
And whoever thinks that there will still be a gulf between the Eagles and the rest of the NFC East is probably as delusional as thinking to take out Megan Fox to the promised land…
This off season has all the makings to go down as one of the worst since the TO fiasco.
#lolEagles
Don’t sweat it yet…I think he will end up in Oakland. Redskins is just a stop to drive up the money, in my opinion.
Dude, it’s ONE PLAYER. Man up.
Chiefs just decided not to pursue DJax. Wonder why.
Yes, one player, dude. You better tell this Cary Williams.
Re Chiefs dropping out: I do wonder if DeSean is asking for too much money, maybe? Who knows? Until the Eagles FO steps up and don’t act like cowards any more we both know f@@@@ all.
Did you mean Bradley Fletcher?
Was Mr. Sconce cut as well…?!
No, but Desean lines up on the right side most of the time, Coop on the left. Cary plays right side on D and Fletch on the left.
The outcome will be same difference.
Correct, he will get knocked into the trainers room for examination either way.
Dude, I really don’t understand where your under appreciation from DeSean on the football field comes from, but you should have listened more to all those training camp reports from last year when DeSean smoked all the Eagles CBs, no matter if they were going by the name of Fletch, Sconce or Boykinzzz.
I am/was a fan of DeSean. Both of my kids have his jersey. He is not an Eagle anymore. He is now going to wear another teams jersey. I’ve moved on, and I wish the Eagles make his day a nightmare if/when we face him.
Yeah, I’m sure they allow the CBs to knock the WRs around in training camp.
Ummm, yeah..?!! We’re talking about bloody bump & run for DeSean’s sake, and not about any Oklahoma drills…
actually Boykin was able to cover him last year, so was DRC.
Also the other DJ was smoking it in camp last year and he saw the field for 1 offensive snap last year.
There is a reason why BGN has the Na Brown award.
TC /= real production.
I do know Jackson has smoked just about every CB in the NFL, but there is a ton of WRs who smoked us last year while we also shut down a ton of great ones
Lets ignore on field production.
Isnt it telling that the Eagles are willing to eat 6 million in dead space for him to not even play for them? The Jets who lack WRs and has Marty and Vick on the team, a ton of cap space and they wont touch him? What about the Chiefs who could also use a guy like Jackson, is coached by AR who loves him, wont even touch him?
four mil in cap space.
Oh, c’mon. How many “dollars” in “cap space” did the Saints have when they signed Jairus Byrd?
They could have made it happen if they wanted him in KC. You know this as well as I do.
Dan Snyder has a fifteen year track record of making terrible football decisions. If a dunce decides signing Jackson to a big contract is the right move, I’m inclined to believe the opposite is actually true.
I wouldn’t call signing a 27 year old top 10 WR in his prime with a humangous Chip on his shoulder a terrible football decision, especially without giving up any draft picks.
1.)DeSean is not a top 10 WR. He’s clearly a lesser player than Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Brandon Marshall, Michael Crabtree, Larry Fitzgerald, A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Demaryius Thomas, and Andre Johnson. It’s very debatable whether he’s better than Jordy Nelson, Antonio Brown, Pierre Garcon, Alshon Jeffrey, etc. He’s top 20, but closer to the bottom of the list than the top.
2.)He’s probably closer to the end of his prime than the beginning. Speed receivers tend to lose it early and fast.
3.)Scheme matters. The Redskins are likely to favor the run with RGIII, Alfred Morris, and a suspect O line. Jackson is less valuable in a system like that because he doesn’t block well, isn’t particularly effective in the short passing game, and tends to sulk when he doesn’t get the ball.
4.)Signing any player at a cap figure that’s not commensurate to his production on the field is a terrible football decision. DeSean at $7-8 million a year is a good value, at $12 million not so much. We have to see what he gets before drawing conclusions.
All other things being equal I would’ve preferred to keep him, but given the mounting off field concerns and the fact that he is apparently neither the best influence in the locker room nor the most beloved of teammates, I understand the decision to get rid of him. And I don’t think he’s likely to be a difference maker for any team he signs with, particularly not one that’s a mess like the Redskins.
That’s completely wrong you should check his stats including his route stats.
I’ve checked his stats. I also watch a lot of football. Jackson excels at one thing, which is getting deep. He’s no better than moderately above average in any other area.
I’ll repeat what I’ve said several times already: DJax is a good player, but not a singular talent and hardly irreplaceable. Out of the 64 starting receivers in football he ranks in the 12-15 range, and that ranking is only going to drop. Y’all keep acting like the Eagles just got rid of a 27 year-old Jerry Rice and that is just not the case.
Jaccson made Cooper better just by being on the field. Hopefully, Maclin can do that.
Getting deep stretches the field. Even if Jackson is not being thrown at he’s
opening things up underneath. Maclin is fast, but not that fast, plus
he’s coming off an injury. Nobody can say how this will turn out, good
or bad.
We’ll see what Chip’s offense is all about this year. My choice
is Jackson and Maclin deep, Riley and the tight ends mid-field and McCoy
and Sproles creating havoc underneath.Oh well, I also wanted to see Charles Barkley, Moses Malone and Brad Daugherty in the Sixers’ backcourt in 86.. 🙁
I wonder how other teams run the ball or have open WRs without guys like Jackson on the team?
Good point, may as well release Shady too.
My point is the whole decoy thing about Jackson is getting overrated.
No. It. Is. Not.
Or do you really think opposing DC will scheme around Maclin the same way they did for DeSean. I don’t think so.
So you say teams will play cover 0 now?
I was just saying that we won’t see the opposing safeties as back deep as we saw with DeSean. I am also of the strong opinion that Coop’s numbers will drop, maybe even significantly.
But maybe – hopefully – Maclin will have a career year… Before leaving in free agency. Lol
Psssd, don’t mention stats in connection with an ex- Eagles player. These stats are all useless. They only count and tell the whole story in case of Nick Foles…
You may want to re-think your first point in case you haven’t read this article:
http://eaglesrewind.com/2014/03/25/contextualizing-mr-jackson/
Any metric which claims that DeSean Jackson is a better receiver than Larry Fitzgerald is sufficiently flawed as to be more-or-less worthless.
So Foles’ last season has been a fluke as well…?
You’d think DeSean didn’t have a career before Chip came to town, as if 2013 is representative of his normal play. Go check his DVOA for 2008-2012, 2013 is the only year he was in the top 10, and guess what WR is practically tied with him?
But it had nothing to do with Chip and Foles.
I’m sure signing a one dimensional me first WR will instantly turn the Redskins into serious playoff contenders, the same way stealing a DT from the Cowboys who was mediocre in the 3-4 and had a career year in the 4-3 at age 31 to put him back into the 3-4 will transform their defense.
DeSean is NOT a dimensional player. It’s actually shocking that so many Eagles fans undervalue those players from the moment they’re not with the Eagles anymore. I would expected something better from you, austinfan.
Not one dimensional but can disappear against bigger CB’s, not always but can.. with that being the way the league is going coupled with him mostly relying on straight line speed, which we know an be lost very quickly, and his character concerns, we were probably right to cut ties… losing him a year too early is better than a year too late
It doesn’t seem I’m alone with my opinion:
http://twitter.com/JimmyKempski/status/450211884365795328
Will Jackson look good for the Skins? Most likely, but do you not think the Eagles have tought of that? The Eagles are taking on 6 million in dead space for him to not even play for them.
I hope they had an absolute valid reason to eat up 6 million of Jeff Lurie’s cash.
Re Jackson’s fit in DC. Fancy a cheeky bet?! I am saying that DeSean will have a better year than Maclin this season.
baring injuries, I think Maclin will have a greater year unless Foles turns into a total different QB
Deal! What’s at stake?!
Loser posts a rap video admitting he was wrong and praising the wisdom of the winner. To a karaoke track of “Happy”.
I’m in. Anders, what about you?
Not sure you guys want to hear me sing ever
It’s not singing man, it’s rapping! Duh.. 😉
even worse, I think.
They’re not eating up $6M of Lurie’s cash. That’s already been spent in bonus…a sunk cost. They’re only eating up the cost of whatever WR they sign to replace him while SAVING $10M in real money.
Is there any good reason why this move couldn’t have waited until next off season when DeSean’s guaranteed money fell of his contract, making his trade value higher? We’ve already committed to 50% of his contract for this year. Wouldn’t it be smarter to deal with him for another year, develop the receiver corp behind him and then move on?
It’s nice to talk about the salary cap hit, but there are two issues I have with that. First off Foles, Cox, Kendricks, and Boykin all have two years left on
their deal and aren’t likely to negotiate until after this season. Second, the Eagles only have about $100 million in contracts committed to 2015. That includes $12 million to DeSean(just released), $12 mil to Trent Coles(overpriced), $7 mil to Demeco Ryans(last year), and $8 mil to Bradley Fletcher(last year), which are all guaranteed to be released or restructured. It’s not inconceivable that the Eagles could have anywhere from $40-$80 million or so to play with come next off season, even if they did keep DeSean around for this season.
There was no guaranteed money left.
The 6 million in dead space is just prorated money all ready paid out. Next year it was 4 million
So, here is another take on it that I dont think its discussed. Releasing Desean will send a message to Evan Mathis (or whoever is at least thinking about it) that Eagles will not tolerate any behaviorial or contract renogetations (obviously without a valid reason) and wont think twice showing the door or trade them.
If I were Evan Mathis, I probably wouldn’t think that DeSean’s “situation” compared all that closely to mine.
Isn’t that want Mathis wants?
If the theory that the robbery of DeSean was a hoax is correct (a theory that I am growing more sympathetic to), would the Eagles take a financial or legal hit as his employer if it came out that he was guilty of tax fraud or money laundering, which would explain why he would do such a hoax? This could be the one reason for releasing DeSean that I would be sympathetic to. Every organization must do what’s in their own best interest. This is the only rationale for cutting DeSean that would serve the team’s best interest.
His mom would then be a main conspirator.
Stranger things have happened. Moms have been convicted for worse things. Either that or DeSean lied to her and she was duped (another real possibility).
From what I have read, the whole case seems odd. I don’t have any conclusive thoughts on the matter, other than it seems a little shady. However, the police seem to think all is good in their findings after correcting their mistakes.
Not sure the Philadelphia Police can be taken at face value
What?? It might be time for you to turn it in for the night.
Ball players get robbed all the time, there’s a case literally every single year. Easy targets, they have lots of cash and jewels. How would an employer be liable if you committed tax / insurance fraud, it’s not like he burned down NovaCare. Even if there was liability as the employee firing him after the fact probably doesn’t change that. Even IF all that’s true — aside from the police clearing him of wrong doing someone would have leaked the case to the media just like everything else gets leaked to the media.
Funny you think all of this about a guy with a clean record.
Suitable replacements for Djax.
1. Brandin Cooks
2. Odell Beckham Jr
3/ Marquise Lee
4. Paul Richardson
5. Martavis Bryant
6. Cody Latimer
7. Donte Moncrief
8. L’Damian Washington
9. Jeff Janis
10 Dri Archer/DAT/Fast dudes here
I put Davante Adams in at 4th. He is not a super smoker like Jackson, but he can get downfield as well
I was listing in terms of combination of speed and receiving skills. Adams reminds me of Hakeem Nicks before his injuries.
I have a feeling that we’re not going to replace DeSean with someone from the outside. I think Maclin will replace DeSean as the deep threat and if we draft a WR it will be a big guy/guy who plays big like Mike Evans, Kelvin Benjamin, Allen Robinson or Jordan Matthews. Unless of course Cooks or my personal favorite Beckham Jr end up being BPA @ 22
Would love Beckham to be there at 22, nut it depends on where teams value cooks and Benjamin, Sen some mocks with one or the other in the teens, I think if one of those and Evans/Watkins, go before we pick I think he’ll be there
Get the feeling ODB will be the 3rd WR off the board
…
Andy doesn’t have the imagination to pass on a safe Maclin clone in Lee
They could end up going ol it was 3 starters they lost in FA wasn’t it?
Think the jets could be interested in cooks since they were after Austin last year.. Not the same player but if it’s speed they’re after?
Marty was said to be raving about Cooks
Could definitely see it if they don’t get DJax, or did they pull off with the chiefs?
Jarvis Landry is a straight stud
My favorite WR in the draft. If he were a better athlete he would be in the top 15 pick conversation.
Maclin hasn’t played in a year and we don’t even if he still has his speed. We need depth at the WR position anyway.
In the vernacular he would likely use: “Ya Boi! #10 visiting DC. Cross ya fingers DC. Commin for ya numa RG!!!!!!!….”
Didn’t think of that, would be strange seeing him not wearing 10, like when Westbrook went san fran and didn’t have 36
Perhaps as a musician he will turn it up to 11.
Spinal Tap forever.
Bye bye “10mode”
Think its pretty simple.. At the owners meeting, in one breath Chip gave mild praise for Desean “I like Desean” and in the next breathe he said “those WRs with the Size and speed combo are the elite WRs in the NFL”..so by definition, Chip doesn’t view Desean as elite, so why pay him elite money for a guy who isn’t even a model soldier?
…
This is why I don’t get why fans keep talking about Brandin cooks, and Paul Richardson…they dont fit what our coach deems elite, and in this class, there will be plenty of players who won’t get picked before 22 that have that ELITE size/speed combo…so why wouldn’t the eagles swing for the fences, grab one of the big boys and try to develop them into an elite WR?
Moncreif
A Rob
KB
Mathews
Bryant
Coleman
…
The only smaller WR who I think is so good that we should be passing up a chance to develop the next Gordon.Jerfries, is ODB…
..
By chips definition. Cooks won’t be elite, so why settle on a guy with a Djax ceiling when their are some kid that will be available who have the talent to develop into a top WR?
I don’t think Chip got rid of DJ because of his talent. If anything, DJ proved that a little guy can not only be a major weapon in this offense, he proved a little can be a top NFL talent — in this system. When Chip got here, he said big people beat up little people so people though DJ was on his way out then because he was small. But he kept DJ despite his size and DJ flourished. (this isn’t to be confused with my perception of MeSean)
Didn’t say Chip doesn’t think Desean is a quality WR…said he doesn’t think we should have to deal with crap from someone making 10mil who has limitations
I thought you were saying DJ didn’t have the size so Chip didn’t want him(because of your quote)…if that’s not the case, I agree with you…
I’m saying he doesn’t view Desean in his elite WR mold, but Desean is a quality weapon…I’m willing to bet if he was a model soldier, we would overlook the fact that he making 10 mil, even if he doesn’t have the size/speed combo Chip uses to define ELITE NFL WR…
..
A combo of things, not just his height…
…
Not for nothing but a guy making 10mil who had a career year should be the happiest employee ever
100% agree. Just a thought. Not everyone is model soldier. I think you have to go above and beyond(read – being a ****) to make a team want to get rid of you in such a fashion.
Wish the eagles would take a flier on Jacoby Ford and his 4.25 deep ball speed. Dude is 26yrs old, has spent 3years in Raider hell, and will sign a minimum contract…don’t see why we wouldn’t sign him to the minimum and see if he can make the team…hand him a minimum salary and you can easily cut him if you don’t like what you see….rather add a Longball threat for cheap, and go into the draft taking two WRs ATleast 6’2
He RS at all?
Huh?
He was asking if he brings any return skills to the table.
Oh yeah abslutely,l,my bad…panthers are looking at him to replace Ted Ginn who was their Longball threat/return man,,,
…
Hasn’t returned any punts for a TD, but his rookie year he ha two KR TDs, and one in his second year…none last year….. A young veteran running a 4.25 is worth a camp flier on a minimum salary…plus it’s hard to say he sucks when he been playing with Raider QBs
He is on the bulkier side too. He seems to fit the backup need to contribute on special teams rule. I wouldn’t mind.
I just wonder if we will sign any WRs right now, or if the FO would look to avoid appearing desperate.
I have a question for the older Eagle fans. Who is better at this juncture in their career: DJor CC?
DJ so far. Carter wasnt a pro bowl WR until 1993, Jackson already has 3 pro bowls.
DJ is more similar to TO in that he is already an estabilished WR, but seems to be a locker room cancer.
What bugs me on watching this DJ stuff on TV — all the “pro’s” on nfl network and NFL Live talk about DJ as an “all purpose” wr because of his ability to return punts. Did they even watch him or at least look up his numbers from last year? I think part of the “souring” with Chip/DJ had to do with Chip making him return punts last year. DJ did not want to return punts. It showed in his lack luster attempts. DJ had his worst avg returning punt in his career yet these pro’s make it sound like the Eagles got rid of the greatest return specialist ever. I’m thinking they should have done some homework…
I imagine they are thinking of one particular return and just assuming a great return means a great returner.
Deangelo hall says he will take Desean “under his wing” lol this I have to see… Sign Desean and put that freak show circus franchise on hard knocks!!!
Wonder if Jackson just mention the 2010 game when he walks in and Hall has to eat crap? 😛
If Jackson signs with the Skins, he is gonna make Hall is little bitch in TC
Hall is Deseans, old stale candy bar….walk into that locker room and throw your gang signs up like what…
The good news for DeSean is that his rap career has finally gotten some legs. Nearly 1.5 million hits!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrU_ef7DQgs
This just isn’t as big a “fiasco” as some fans and the Philly media are making it out to be. It’s OK to disagree with the decision to cut DeSean Jackson (I was hoping it wouldn’t come to that), but this won’t be a distraction during the season and Kelly/Roseman don’t have to give us more info on why they made the move. There’s nothing to be gained from anything else. The Eagles moved on from DeSean, we should too.
In time, more will come out. That may/may not change some minds that are already made up. I’m ‘wait and see’ for a while.
Disagree. It’s very, very hard to understand why you’d give up a 27 year old, pro bowl receiver in his prime for zero.
It’s hard to see that DeSean was that bad in the locker room to merit such a decision. The Eagles are really putting themselves out there.
It also reeks of the old Eagles attitude that “we’re smarter than everyone else.” Who needs impact players?
Did you disagree with the cutting of TO as well?
Not as much because TO actively and publicly tried to undercut the leader and star QB.
DeSean certainly didn’t do that.
So what if he did it in another way. Quite a few reports has Jackson as a terrible team mate
No business is under any obligation to publicly discuss their business. Unless they have shares traded on the stock exchange. Even then, when a new management group takes control, they are under no obligation to discuss employee movement with anyone else.
Alright. I’m over it now. DeSean is not an eagle anymore. I wish him all the best. Just don’t choose the redskins please. I don’t want to see Nate Allen tackle him in the open field. Thanks.
You mean you do want to see Nate Allen tackle him in the open field. What you don’t want is to see Nate Allen miss tackling him in the open field.
Argumtenum e contrario.