Back to Draft Talk
Posted: April 29th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 99 Comments »The story of the day on Monday should have been a rumor about the Eagles and Johnny Football, but that got overwhelmed by the first public comments on the DeSean Jackson situation. Now that DeSeangate has been discussed, let’s talk about the rumor from yesterday.
Peter King shared this nugget in his weekly MMQB column.
- There’s a rumor (apparently faulty) making the rounds about the Eagles moving up to try to get Johnny Manziel. I wouldn’t pass it along if the person who told me wasn’t smart and, to this point, reliable. But I just can’t see it, and I have someone who would know better than the rumor source telling me it absolutely won’t happen. Which seems smart to me, seeing that Nick Foles’ 27 touchdowns and two interceptions and 119.2 passer rating would be pretty damned foolish to throw out the window for Manziel. I just put it out there as an example of the kind of stuff that makes the rounds when so much of what happens at this time of year is designed to be a misdirection play. As Bills GM Doug Whaley said Friday, speaking to western New York reporters: “It’s finally one time where we can use you guys [reporters] to our advantage. There are things that you put out there to see if someone bites, and there are some things you put out there that are true. You have people read between the lines and you don’t want to show your hand. I’m sure everyone is doing the same thing.’’
Chip Kelly recruited Johnny Manziel to come to Oregon. Chip absolutely loved him and thought Manziel would be perfect for the Oregon offense. Someone asked Chip about Manziel on Monday and he joked that Johnny broke his heart by not coming to Oregon. There is now a very distinct possibility that Manziel will be on the board at pick 22. Would the Eagles take him? Is Manziel still a player that Kelly covets?
My take…no. The Eagles don’t want him. I think they are spreading the rumor that they like him so teams in the late 1st round and early 2nd round will have to consider trading up if they want Manziel.
While the Eagles might want Manziel, they could be talked into trading pick 22 since they already have Nick Foles in place. At least that would be the story they sold other teams who called to inquire about a deal.
I doubt teams will buy this, but Chip Kelly is enough of a wildcard that you never know. I think he surprised people by moving up for Matt Barkley last year. And Chip was at Manziel’s Pro Day, although more likely there to focus on WR Mike Evans. Add in Chip’s comment from yesterday and that might just be enough to make some team move up to 22 to get Manziel.
Lots of BS at this time of the year, and much of it is generated by NFL teams.
* * * * *
Add CB Dontae Johnson (NC St./6'2" 1/10, 200) to #Eagles pre-draft visit list. Senior Bowl and #NFL Combine participant.
— Adam Caplan (@caplannfl) April 28, 2014
This makes sense. Johnson is a big, physical press corner. He would be a good fit in the Eagles scheme. Johnson could go as early as the 4th round or as late as the 6th. The Eagles need some young talent at CB and he could be good value if the team looks at other positions early in the draft.
* * * * *
There has been discussion about the Eagles and Canadian OT prospect Laurent Duvernay-Tardiff (didn’t even have to look that up…got it memorized). Here is a good article on him that explains the meetings he’s had with teams.
Seven NFL teams flew in Duvernay-Tardif this month for an official pre-draft visit ahead of Sunday’s deadline: Green Bay, Kansas City, Miami, Arizona, Seattle, Buffalo and San Francisco. Two others — Cleveland and Indianapolis — tried but couldn’t swing it. The Philadelphia Eagles privately worked out Duvernay-Tardif in Montreal.
So no visit to Philly.
Jon Runyan won’t fully approve of LDT’s comments on blocking.
“I think my teammates and my coaches would say that I’m really aggressive on the field and I try to finish my opponent, and blah-blah-blah,” he said. “But, honestly, I just try to go there and play 100% and I don’t try to be mean. I just try to do my job until the whistle.
“If I can get into the head of my opponent, that’s good. One way to do that is to play really, really aggressively. If I can finish every block with a pancake, I’m going to do it every time. That’s my mentality. At the same time, I’m respectful. I’m not going for a cheap shot.
Not mean? No cheap shots? What in the name of Conrad Dobler is going on out there?
I’m guessing LDT is in the 4th round area, but guys like him can go earlier if a team falls in love with them. He’s smart, big and athletic. That’s a good combination for an OT. On the flip side, he is a Canadian prospect that would be a major projection. That could hurt his value.
* * * * *
Someone asked about replacing DeSean with a small receiver like Brandin Cooks. Wouldn’t that be dumb, since the Eagles just said they got rid of DeSean for football reasons.
Cooks isn’t DeSean. Very different players. DeSean bulked up for the Combine and weighed 174 pounds. Cooks is 189, and that was probably going light so he would run well. Both players are 5-10, but Cooks is naturally thicker and stronger.
DeSean is a finesse player. Cooks is more physical. Obviously he’s no Calvin Johnson, but for his size, Cooks is a tough guy. He is comfortable playing in traffic and taking hits.
Just because players have a similar build doesn’t mean they are the same guy. We don’t know that Chip Kelly has interest in Cooks, but if the Eagles do take him, it won’t be a hypocritical move. Cooks and DeSean are different players.
_
I know it is off topic, but I found this comment strange:
“To an outsider, that might make all the sense in the world to just go get bigger, stronger corners,” says ESPN analyst Eric Allen, a six-time Pro Bowl defensive back who stands 5-10 (maybe). “But the philosophy has always been that speed and fluidity, even in smaller packages, are how you play one-on-one pass defense. What’s happened over the last two years is a real departure from that. Honestly, I don’t know if these guys even existed 10 years ago. Now they do. But you have to dig for them.”
Yes they existed 10 years ago, on the same team he once played for. They Eagles had 6’1 Troy Vincent and drafted 6’3 Bobby Taylor to do the same as what people are looking for now, to shut down those big WRs. Bobby Taylor was drafted to counter the big WRs of the Cowboys.
Ah man, thanks for the memories, I miss Troy and Bobby..!
Manziel to the Eagles? Sure, maybe in the 6th round. Any higher and just no, please no!
After this off-season nothing would shock me anymore. Maybe Chippah loves THAT kid Manziel so much that the Eagles will draft him while trading Foles for 2 1st round picks…
Wouldn’t talk like this make teams who want Manziel to trade with teams who pick before the Eagles not with the Eagles? Seems to me if your a team who wants Manziel, you wouldn’t want him available for Eagles while they’re on the clock.
My thoughts, too. Still it has an advantage: a QB taken before 22 means that there will be one more option the Eagles may like at 22.
It would be great if the Eagles could generate interest in all O-Linemen and QBs, so three teams or so would trade up to get them and Kelly comes away laughing with Barr. 😀
Not going to happen, of course.
yea, i hear ya. i’ll be cheering each time a player thats not a LB or CB or WR is taken, ha
Let’s see…Chip drafted Matt Barkley. Nick Foles had a great year running Chip’s offense. Chip signed Mark Sanchez. When are people going to let go of the notion that Kelly wants a mobile QB? He’s obviously blowing smoke with his Manziel comments. I would love it if he’s still on the board at #22 so we have trade bait.
Kelly wants, foremost, good decision-makers playing the “point-QB” position in the CKO.
But, I think, in a more perfect world, the CKO presents more challenges if the “point-QB” is more mobile than Foles.
But I don’t know that any QBs in the NFL substantially more mobile than Foles could run the CKO better than he does.
That said, I think Kelly will always be peaking for the more perfect mouse-trap at point-QB, i.e., a great decision-maker who’s mobile.
Dumb not to do that.
____________
Bottom line, I agree the media outside Philadelphia reflects their lack of knowledge by making arguments that suggest mobility trumps decision-making.
Yup yup yup…we can compare a QB size, arm strength mobility, and it’s all important, but at this level it’s rare that a kid gets drafted without having a skill set that has been successful in the NFL…typically you don’t see a Kafka get drafted..
..
If your arm strength isn’t ATleast at the Chad Pennington level, you would never get drafted…but a QBs Brain and accuracy will always be the most important traits when choosing a QB.
I say Andrew Luck or Aaron Rodgers would be more perfect in terms of mobility and decision making.
I still stand on that McNabb would have been perfect QB for Kelly.
Sounds like a perfect setup to a smokescreen to me.
Seems more like Kelly just likes having a backup plan.
he isnt blowing smoke, he was asked about johnny and oregon and said yeah he broke my heart..
Dude, every time I see one of your posts I just crack up. I can’t help but think of milk steak, eating cat food, and killing rats.
chicken denim ?
LMAO
T-Law:
Brandon Cooks looks like someone who can excel in a spread or WCO offense. That includes Chip Kelly’s offense, too, I’m sure.
I mean, besides Iffy Momah, who doesn’t seem to excel in the CKO?
That said . . . can we please add a B-I-G wide receiver who — unlike R-Coop — is considered a Top 50 player in his draft class.
PLEASE. With PBRs and pudding on top?
Mr. Viking,
Out of curiosity, what do you consider a B-I-G wide receiver? I feel like with WR’s (and CB’s) there’s an antiquated notion that anything over 6 feet and 200 pounds is big, while to me that seems average.
6’3 and up maybe? Also, they should play like a big receiver, too… Which is hard to define other than “use their size to their advantage.”
Fair question.
Coming up in an era when WRs were routinely 6’2″ 200 lbs — as big as HBs, really — and CBs were 6’0″, they’re my benchmark.
HOFer Charlie Taylor was a college HB and converted to WR in the NFL (after winning ROY as a HB). Taylor was 6’3″ 210lbs. Best WR the Eagles played year after year.
Mike Quick, at 6’2″ 190lbs was a “big” WR.
Michael Irvin 6’2″ 210 lbs was a “big” WR.
LFitz 6’3″ 225lbs – very big.
Same for Calvin and Andre Johnson. These guys are genetic freaks.
Harold Carmichael was a “gigantic” WR, even by early ’70s standards.
(I’ve left Chris Carter and Randy Moss out just because. I suspect you understand.)
Currently, the Birds have Riley Cooper – a “big” WR . . . but not in the class of any of the guys above.
I want someone in the Charlie Taylor category. Big, physical, catches like a WR, runs like a HB.
___________
For CBs — anyone 6’0″ 195lb or so and up is “big.” Then and now.
Former Eagle Nate Ramsey, 6’1 200 lbs was a “big” CB (back in the ’60s and early ’70s). Not a very good one, unsurprisingly.
Former Eagle CB Roynell Young — who’s talent seemed to disappear over night — was 6’1″ 190lbs. Great size. Very, very good speed. Had some pretty good years.
HOF Mel Blount — Carmichael’s college teammate — 6’3″ 205 lbs. A very Big CB.
HOF Roger Wehrli 6’0 200 lbs – Big CB
Yes, yes. Yes, yes yes yes yes yes yes yes 🙂
…
Bobby Taylor 6’3 215 was a giant at CB.
Just don’t get why we would spend the 22nd pick in the draft on a 5’10 WR, and if we were to add a WR who lacked size, I’d assume ODB would be higher on our board…
…
Basically our HC,said there are two ways an NFL WR can be successful, winning by either using his size, or with his speed…and the rare size/speed combo are the Elite WRs…..we are talking about a draft where we know for a fact, that there will be ATleast 5 prospects available with that rare size/speed combo our coach used to define ELITE WR….
…
If your coaching staff are good at developing young players, and if you aren’t ever going to add real gamechangers in free agency, than you better be spending your first two draft picks on kids with ELITE ceilings, and NFL superstar potential…
…
I am a huge fan of cooks and have been way before he ever started being mocked to us, but IMO, I just don’t see us drafting him. I’m a big big fan of his, and if I hear him announced as an eagles draft pick, I would be thrilled, but if I’m being honest, drafting him would really really surprise me…
…
I think Cooks is one of the top 5 most ready NFL players who will be ready to contribute day 1, but I don’t see how anyone can say, Cooks has a top 5 ceiling in this draft.. It’s really hard to see us drafting him, when we have a chance at ATleast 5 WRs 6’2-6’3 220lbs, 4.4ish, 35-40inch verticals…
…
Now if you were to tell me we can draft Cooks because we will go out and sign a Josh Gordon,Demryious Thomas in free agency next year! I’d be thrilled. But I think it’s pretty obvious that we won’t be adding $40million dollar WRs from other teams in Free agency….the big, explosive, monster WR won’t be coming until we draft and develop him ourselves..and this is as good a draft as any to land that player…it’s very rare to go into a draft picking in the 20s and you know for a FACT that you can chose between about 5 WR prospects with the rare speed/size combo when it’s time for you or draft…it’s even more rare to know for a fact, that if you trade out of round 1, get an extra pick, you will still find a rare size/speed talent on the board…
..
I have a feeling the vision of this offense is to really blur the lines between TE and WR…basically an arsenal of explosive big body pass catchers, and teams simply won’t ever have as much size in their secondary to matchup with what we have in mind….this offense is pretty darn simple, if you can count lol…too many men in the box. Switch to a pass play or throw a screen. Not enough man in the box, switch to a run and punish the defense…
…
A tall CB is like 6’0.
An average,WR is 6’0 tall
…
If the vision is to stockpile explosive pass catchers who are 6’2 and taller, it’s going to be extremely rare to ever run into a defense that has 3 tall CBs and two tall safeties…
…
As much as I like Cooks, I just don’t see how Chip could pick him over a 20yr old baby, who is already good at beating man coverage and coming down with jump balls like Allen Robinson..
…
if 6’2 is the shortest WR we will add going forward, their are teams that don’t even have 1 CB who is 6’2
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
After seeing how putrid Earl Wolffs college tape was and seeing that with a few months of training our coaches had him getting PBUs against Antonio gates playing him man on an Island in the redzone…and knowing we just won’t be spending 40million on other teams free agent stars, I want NOTHING to do with safe players. Swing for a grand slam and take the guy who will be the best weapon assuming everyone realizes their full potential….Cooks will be one of the 5 best rookie WRs, but 3 years from now, he won’t be one of the 5 best WRs from this class, and he may not even be in the top 10…and that’s not an indictment of the kid because I’m a huge fan…that speaks to how high the ceiling is for so many of these WR prospects…
…
Just look at Martevis Bryant,..raw as it gets, elite size/speed combo, very rare…He us basically this drafts Stephan Hill…in a normal draft, a guy with The rare attributes of Stephan hill won’t get out of round 2…this year, you can get that guy in round 3, because there are a handful of guys just like him…
…
I believe in the ability of our coaches to identify who they want, and coach them up. I also believe that the emphasis we put in our interview process will drastically lower the bust potential of our draft picks…
…
If you draft the biggest. Longest, most athletic players, and you make sure you are only drafting highly Commited, and coachable kids who live this game and have the insane drive and work ethic, sooner or later, we will have molded them into quality football players….
…
If you draft an undersized player with average athleticism and skills, his insane drive and work ethic isn’t going to guarentee you a quality NFL player..
…
If you draft a the biggest most explosive athlete…and he doesn’t live this game and work at it relentlessly, you may not have a quality NFL player on your hands
…
But when you put a premium on: BIGGEST, FASTEST, Most EXPLOSIVE, and you are only chosing from the MOST DRIVEN, MOST COMMITTED, most coachable players with a crazy work ethic, and you put those kids in the hands of quality player development coaches, sooner or later it will click for the kid and you should have a quality player on yours hands…
I must admit I had to look up Conrad Dobler. Very interesting and depressing Wikipedia read.
I’ll yield to AC for any personal memories of the NFL’s dirtiest player…
B —
I thought about writing on Dobler. Then decided that T-Law’s reference was enough.
But since you ask . . . .
In Conrad Dobler, you’re talking about a player about whom, as a fan, you felt as much hatred as you did for the entire Cowboys team.
The Eagles and Cards were never really rivals. But Dobler? H-A-T-E-D him the way the most ardent Eagles fans have hated the Cowboys for years — regardless of who they have.
Dobler wasn’t just mean. He wasn’t just dirty. Dobler treated every play as an alley fight — just without the knife. He’d bite. Kick. Kick in the most precious spot. Punch.
He was such a consistently dirty player that the refs couldn’t call everything. So they’d pick and choose . . . kind of like how the Seattle DBs are now judged.
So back when Dobler — who deserves credit for reaching the Pro Bowl with very sub-PB talent — played for the Cardinals in the ’70s, particularly under Air Coryell, he was surrounded by some great linemates. In a great offense.
In fact in 1975, the Cards had THE BEST offensive line I’ve ever seen for one season, when — with journeyman Jim Hart at QB — the team allowed just 8 sacks in 14 games.
Hart was already in his 9th year. He was as immobile as Nick Foles. Even more so.
Coryell’s offense was not a “quick pass” Walsh-like WCO. It was constantly attacking downfield. The pass-pro was incredible.
On top of that, Coryell turned former Ohio State FB Jim Otis, pulled from the scrapheap, into a 1,000 yard rusher. The Cards also had the electric HB Terry Metcalf . . . a more athletic, albeit smaller, version of Brian Westbrook.
The O-line was LOT Rogger Finnie, LOG Bob Young, C Tom Banks, ROG Conrad Dobler, and HOF right tackle Dan Dierdorf.
(Back in that era, the LDEs were generally the best pass-rushers and best DEs all around. So the ROTs were the best O-linemen. It wasn’t until Lawrence Taylor that the back-side DE/ROLB became the hunter.)
Everyone of the Cards’ O-line played in the Pro Bowl and reached All Pro status — except LOT Finnie — at some point during the Cards tenure.
But turning back to Dobler . . . just the mention of his name conjures up memories of hatred that no other player held. None.
“…played for the Cardinals in the ’70s, particularly under Air Coryell…”
Football coaches sure had some great names back in the day.
awesome to get a first-hand take like this, wikipedia doesn’t do it justice.
FANTASTIC post. Really, I didn’t want it to end!
It’s really hard to think of squeezing all of my hatred for the Cowboys into one player. The closest I can think of is Michael Irvin, which obviously doesn’t work because of physics.
yikes, Karma must have one hell of an interest rate…
Manziel in the first? No.
Manziel if he fell to the second? That one would be hard to pass up.
Slightly off-topic: did anyone catch Manziel on Gruden’s QB Camp?
The most interesting part to me was when Gruden pulled out a laceless ball and had Manziel throw it around. He also pushed him on the injury thing, which in fairness he does to every QB, but seems especially prescient for Johnny Football.
Also, the Tajh Boyd QB Camp was enlightening. I walked away thinking I don’t want him at all, even in he 7th. Granted we can only take away so much from what we see, but he seemed to have little awareness of plays and defensive tendencies — compared to other guys who have come in and gone up to the whiteboard and could diagram plays. I actually came away with even more respect for Watkins in that it seems Boyd might have just been heaving it up there.
But, the scariest part is when Gruden was talking to him about peaks and valleys, and how that’s what NFL evaluators are saying about him. Boyd responded by saying that he’s known for consistency and that you can take check downs all day, but eventually you have to take risks to be great, just like Brett Favre. Run away!!! Gruden just smiled, but I could imagine Chip watching that and puking up his smoothie.
Yeah I found Tajs alarming as well.
..
Wish they would do one with Logan Thomas. Heard that their are a lot of NFL coaches salivating over working with him. I don’t like or believe in him much, but if we are to draft a QB I would hope that it was Logan Thomas. We have the Oakland rainmaker and hardest mofo to hit philly since Rocky balboa! some know him as Nick FOles…and CANchez might Be known for butt fumbling, but in fairness to the frat boy, he never really have much talent around him on offense. Wouldn’t be shocked to see Chip turn him into one of the NFLs best backup..if you have a young veteran QB who has made it to the AFC championship and has over 60 starts under his belt on your bench, I think that’s an opportunity to take a late round flier on a high risk, but extremely high reward QB with a ton of bust potential, like Logan Thomas
..
That kid has all the tools and potential in the world. If we can fool teams into thinking we got him to put it all together, by making him look good in the preseason, we can end up flipping him for a much more valuable pick that we spent on him…..making GJ Kinney look good in the preseason isn’t going to fool many GMs and make them pay a kings ransom for the QB who also plays ST lol…but Logan has all the sexy talent in the world, making him look good could really get a desperate GM to bite…with only 6 picks, this isn’t something we can do, but a lot can change on draft night…we have 6’picks today, would anyone be that surprised to see us end up drafting 10 kids? Every pick, every extra pick you get is potential for a trade back. Some teams have an insane amount of compensatory picks, which will probably make them more willing to use their normal picks to move up to really get the guy they want in each round…why not trade away your 4th round pick, to move up and secure the guy you really want in round 2 if you are sitting on 3 compensatory picks in the 4th round? Gotta trade back as many times as GMs allow us to….and at the very least we need to end up drafting 8 kids, 3 on offense, 5 on defense
I think Dontae Johnson is a very real possibility for the eagles….thinking we try to come out of rounds 4-5 with either Dontae or Antone Exum…. I can see us liking Dix(but he won’t be available). I would love Buchanon, but I’m not sure he is the best fit for what we do. If I had to guess which safety would become an eagle, I would have to go with either Dontae,Exum or Sunseri…no earlier than round 4…our depth at CB and safety is pretty much identical and I think we would be thrilled to add Exum or Dontae and figure out if we will play them at safety or cornerback later…
…
If the eagles had real interest in Manziel! you can bet our HC wouldn’t be announcing his love for the kid the week before the draft…..
Unless… that is exactly what he wants everyone to think!
Boy, moving the draft back really gave the media time to point to more smoke and mirrors than most years. Tomorrow’s report will be that Miami accidentally cut a player in half during a medical exam, but then The Great Mersa and his staff will admit it was all an illusion.
Yeah moving the draft back was just cruel and unusual punishment…
.,,
If us fans had any balls, America,would boycott this draft and not give it any live ratings…it’s not like we wouldn’t know what happened, and we could easily go back and watch it a day later…Goodell has done a lot of crap I don’t agree with! but this was just cruel and totally unnecessary
If we hear a dolphin was cut in half I’m going to assume Sea World had something to do with it. Yeah, I sorta watched that CNN documentary “Blackfish.”
Is that the one where Nemo and his special ops squid team get dropped into Sea World on a mission that goes wrong, or is that Blackfish Down?
Manziel seems unlikely to me. Foles played at a very high level last year, and Chip has repeatedly said that he has no issue adapting his system to an immobile QB.
Johnson and Duvernay-Tardif seem like good developmental prospects to target later in the draft. The Eagles are solid at CB and OL right now, but with near 30 or over 30 players like Williams, Herremans, and Mathis starting, that won’t be the case in a few years. Drafting guys who could develop into starters is smart. The Eagles have had mixed luck with Canadian OL – Danny Watkins washed out, but Mike Schad was a good player for several years (albeit on a bad line). Third time’s the charm?
I think it would be hypocritical because of the comments Chip has made. Big people beat up little people. Even last year when he said those words — on these boards it was question on if DJ fits that description. That same question would apply to Cooks.
If you get rid of a player the way Chip did and say it’s because of football reasons, you can’t draft someone same size (really does weight matter if both are under 190?) is hypocritical. If Chip draft Cooks — he will be(at least should be) asked what are the football reasons to drafting him vs. the football reasons to letting DJ go. You can’t compare the two and bottom line be “toughness” as the only difference and that alone be enough to drop DJ.
We know DJ was let go for reasons other than football but since Chip used those words, he’ll be held to those comments.
When you say it’s a football decision, I don’t know how else to interpret that other than a lack of size. I don’t know what other limitations D Jax has besides character issues..
…
Cooks is bigger Desean but be is still an average at best WR in terms of size, and average is probably generous…
..
Take Character out of the equation, when it hear it’s a football decision, THE ONLY thing that makes any sense to me is we plan on stock piling Pass catchers who are ATleast 6’2, with Maclin eventually becoming our “short WR”..
..
Chip is all about matchups…and if he builds an arsenal of fast, explosive pass catchers who are ATleast 6’2, once he gets to the playoffs, what secondary will have close to enough size to matchup with a team who’s shortest WR is Maclin?…taking Character out of the equation that’s the only sense of this move I can come up with…
…
Draft Cooks, and I’ll be totally confused!
Just look at the size of all our practice squad WRs..the Billy cunninghams and Momah’s are all ATleast 6’2…Brad smith and Arrelius Benn were brought in by Chip, and neither lacks size…Damaris is the only bench player who really lacks size, and I have a feeling he will be dealt to KC or the Jets in one of those, trade you my trash for your trash deals…
…
Sproles was added since Chip came, but there really isn’t such a thing as a big tall scatback…short and shifty is practically the definition of that position..
I’m with you on this. It’s not say I don’t like Cooks — it’s just the way Chip is presenting this “stuff” to us…
Yeah, I really hope I’m not coming across as someone who doesn’t like Cooks or would be disapointed to see the Eagles draft him…it’s just that when I try to read between the lines, I don’t see Brandin Cooks…maybe I’m missing something, but personally it would surprise me…that doesn’t Mean that drafting him would upset me…
GE . . .
I think — in this comment and your earlier one — your nicely articulating what all the evidence says “should be” . . . . .
I hope you’re right.
Thank you sir…that’s the best sense I can make out of it,, I think Lurie’s comments yesterday were the most Telling talking about Chip “wanting to reconfigure the WR position” and making it a point to mention “playoff production…if Chip was a defensive coach like Rex Ryan, I’d be extremely worried by the decision to cut Desean….but we KNOW that scoring less than 30pts is a fate worse than death for our head coach.. The man is obsessed with scoring points. If he thought losing Desean would mean, our offense would drop to averaging like 23points a game, than I’m sure we would have kept Desean a little longer, until we had enough firepower in place that would allow us to subtract Desean without it effecting our Offense
…
If we were up against the cap, and we really really needed to cut Desean and it was a situation where Howie told Chip we simply can’t afford him under our cap for 2014, I would be very concerned..
…
I don’t believe Howie will ever allow it to get to a place where we become desperate and are forced to cut players we hate to lose, so I don’t think Chip will ever have to really factor money into his decisions.
..
I Genuinely believe that Desean isn’t here because Chip thinks he can provide us a better alternative, which will increase our odds of success. Desean was a damn good player and a serious weapon last year, the fact that our HC wants better, and thinks he can subtract him and continue to improve this team is exciting to me because we know our HC is as driven, dedicated and competitive as it gets, and I for once can’t wait to find out what this man has up his sleeves.
…
I find it exciting that such a competitive coach who’s obsessed with scoring points would cut such a gamebreaking WR…and I have full faith that we will see a BETTER offense than the record breaking offense we saw last year. Dying to find out what this mans vision really is!!!
GEagle: “Dying to find out what this mans (Chip) vision really is!!!
Chip’s vision is to demoralize and utterly destroy the best defenses in the NFL. And he will do it by frequently scoring at will!
Cooks can play the slot, Djax can’t.
Re: Cody Latimer . . . some things I never knew
Latimer played only 2 varsity seasons of HS football — junior and senior year.
Also, he garnered Div-I scholarships (at mid-majors) in basketball, after his HS team won a state title.
Why did he choose FB over BB: “I was leaning more toward basketball at first . . . . But I love the contact.”
LOVE THIS KID.
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/sports/high-school/colleges-drooling-over-jeffersons-latimer/nNGbk/
I was really hopeful that he would last to our 2nd round pick, but I doubt he falls that far now.
Would be shocking, based on all that’s been written lately
I don’t think it’s out of the question to see the eagles swap first round picks with the Niners,patriots,Seahawks or Broncos and I think Cody has some chance of being on the board at #30. I’m probably not thrilled about drafting Cody or A-Rob at 22, but I’d be perfectly happy to see either as our first pick, if we got an extra 3rd,round pick in the process
When I think of a guy that needs a bit more polish, but has massive ceiling, its him.
TLAW’s thoughts from a few days ago:
“The Eagles interest in Latimer makes a lot of sense. He would be an ideal fit. Latimer has the size Kelly wants. He is fast enough to stretch the defense and be a vertical receiver. He is strong enough and tough enough to be a physical receiver that can catch the ball in traffic. He has good hands and is a body catcher. He has good body control, which is critical for WRs. Latimer has good RAC skills. WR screens are a big part of the IU offense. Latimer is also a good blocker and will play on STs.”
Whats not to love? I think he’s going to be great, and I would love to see him as an Eagle. And that’s coming from a Purdue grad.
Thinking we try and trade back, get an extra pick in the top 100 and come away with Robinson,Cody or Moncreif, because I think they have the highest NFL seasons and are less risky than a prospect like Martevis Bryant…
…
Going to be so interesting and telling in a draft with such a plethora of stylistically different WR talent, what type of WR Chip ends up choosing. This draft should give us some nice info about where we are heading…
I read an article over at eaglesaddict that was interesting. Talked about best combination of WR/OLB in rounds 1-4 with the assumption we get one of each in those rounds.
http://eaglesaddict.com/http:/www.eaglesaddict.com/2014-04-28/eagles-draft-2014-finding-the-best-olb-and-wr-combination-in-rounds-1-4/
That article really made me want to a) trade up for Evans or Barr or b) trade back and get an extra pick or two. So I looked up Kempski’s article on possible trades
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Six-Eagles-draft-day-trade-down-scenarios.html
Would love the trade with St. Louis but no way it’s happening. The only viable option I see is a trade with the 49ers a la the Cowboys last year. And I think I would be pretty happy with that. Drop back to 30, pick up an extra 3rd. So here’s hoping someone SF wants is available at 22.
Here’s the thing tho…if we are able to move down to 30, there will be a very good chance that someone will offer us to trade,down again,ESPECIALLY if the Texans don’t draft a QB first overall. All the teams who were greedy and didn’t draft a QB in the top 10 because they said “we can just get one in round two” will all assume that the texans are drafting one to begin the first round, and there is probably a good chance if we can trade down to 30, we will have an opportunity to end up around #35-#37, not just because a team will want to jump the texans to secure the QB they fancy, but also because it pays to to take your QB at the end of round 1, instead of at the beginning of round 2, because you contractually will get to have him on his rookie year for one year longer…so if we can get to 30, not only will we get a 3rd from the niners(only question is will it be the early 3rd #77 that they have from a trade or their own late 3rd round pick), but we can end up with another 3rd, no worse than an extra 4th from a team like the jaguars or raiders who will want to trade up in that round and the best part about doing business with teams like that is they pick at the top of every round.
…
So if Oakland or the jags want to move up for a QB, you are going to get a very high 3rd round pick, in addition to the one you got from allowing the Niners to move up to #22 so they could get their WR or CB, I assume..
…
So, it would suck that we aren’t picking in round 1, but we can end up with a scenario where we traded back twice, our first pick is like #36 and we still come away with Allen Robinson, or Cody and we also got two high 3rd round picks in the process…who cares if we don’t draft til 36, if we then have picks 54, 72, 77, 86 before round 4 starts? Then if you really wanna get greedy, teams that have too many draft picks and not enough roster spots will be happy to convert one of their too many draft picks to a 2015 pick a round higher, rather than blowing them trading up, or drafting kids they know they don’t have the roster spots 4..
…
I’m not a fan of mortgaging our future, but we need to take advantage of chips familiarity with college footballs best players, while it lasts..in two years, he will no longer know the college players better than every NFL coach.’So I wouldn’t mind trading away our second round pick in next years draft for an extra 3rd round pick in this draft..as long as we still have our first round pick next year, we can use it to trade back and recoup the pick we traded away to get an extra pick this year…
…
So we could lose of our first round pick, and next years second round pick but end up drafting 6 kids before round 4 starts. Think it’s crucial to get out of #22, especially if the browns and texans didn’t take QBs with their first picks, because QB desperate teams will perceive them to draft QBs at #24 and #33 which will create a market to trade back twice and add two 3rds…or so I dream
I would love a double trade back scenario. I could go either way on trading one of next year’s picks.
That eaglesaddict.com article was awful. Hurt my brain.
Yeah, I don’t particularly like the guy’s writing but I thought the idea was interesting (i.e. who is going to be available at those positions when we pick and what combination do you want). Made me realize I’d like to have two of the rd 2 guys with two of the rd 3 guys rather than one each of the rd 1, 2 and 3 guys.
I suggested a trade with St. Louis 2 weeks ago. Kempski is a copycat! ;~)
He’s what Cooper should be doing but he’s already better.
“As Bills GM Doug Whaley said Friday, speaking to western New York reporters: “It’s finally one time where we can use you guys [reporters] to our advantage. There are things that you put out there to see if someone bites, and there are some things you put out there that are true. You have people read between the lines and you don’t want to show your hand. I’m sure everyone is doing the same thing.”
This is a great quote. “We know you’ll print anything we tell you, and even though I’m flat out telling you this we know you won’t stop to think about whether or not you’re being lied to, so that’s pretty awesome.”
Awesome quote!!!
If we draft Manziel I’ll be extremely disappointed. Getting rid of DeSean while undermining a young QB who had the type of year Foles did would take some massive cajones.
them Canadian’s are just so darn nice, eh?
Stereotype, hunh!
I will forever maintain that 99% of the stuff people wave their “smokescreen” flag at is just teams doing their due diligence. Can you honestly see anyone except Joe Banner sitting behind a desk in a dark room secretly plotting what prospects they will feign interest in and bring in for visits with zero desire to draft them?
You never know who is going to fall and who is going to go early, and you have to be prepared. Billion dollar organizations understand this. There are hundreds of players that need to have research done over the span of a few months, and its ridiculous to me that teams would spend one of their 30 visits on someone they had no interest whatsoever.
I know the narrative is fun to use, but a majority of the time it just comes off as a coping mechanism for people who are of the opinion that the team is in no way in interested in that player, and can’t find a way to justify the reasoning behind the interest (aka Manziel to our Iggles).
I think when people say that a team is doing a smokescreen, they mean the team is spending time/resources on a player that beforehand they thought they had absolutely no interest in. I’m sure every team goes in to visits and such with an open mind, so in that regard you can say it isn’t simply a smokescreen.
Right, which is what I’m getting at. But when most people say smokescreen (that word is getting right up there with high-motor for me), they use it in the sense that its sole purpose is the mess with other team’s perceptions of their draft desires.
How many trades do we even end up seeing anyways? 1 or two on the first day, max? It would be a stupid waste of resources to spend time on a prospect that has a very very minor chance to affect your ability to get the player you want. Its right up there with drafting a player early to trade him to someone later for added compensation. Just stupid.
Right now I am wondering if you truly don’t believe in the whole smokescreen concept, or if this is all a smokescreen so that we remain unsure of your true feelings.
We often talk about who will “Fall” in the draft. The Media pumps these mock drafts into our brains for month, they all start to believe each other’s opinion and a draft consensus is formed, where we start to believe a certain player should be drafted at a certain spot..Let’s take a guy like Sharrif Floyd, who EVERYONE assumed would go to the raiders in the top 5 last year, “fell” all the way into the 20s….. Then the media will talk about it as if it was this giant slide. did sharif Floyd really “fall” or was the media evaluation of him completely wrong? Did Geno smith “nose dive” into round two, or was the media consensus of him completely wrong?
…
The Media’s consensus ranking of a player could,d be drastically different than how NFL front offices see a player. I strongly suggest checking out the recent Ross Tucker Podcast, the episode where he had Louis Riddick on as a guest. I found it really interesting to hear him talk about the scouting side of it, and now that he is a media member he gets to see first hand all the media misconceptions of the draft…
…
Wondering who are the players that the media is really wrong about this year..Riddick says guys like Vinny Sunseri(Alabama safety) and the RB West( can’t remember the small school, maybe Townson?) are being drastically under rated by the media…wonder which players is the media drastically over rating, and which guys they are drastically overlooking this year?
…
My best guesses would be,
1) Over rated: Dee Ford, KB,McGill, David Yankey
2) Under rated: Moncreif(think someone takes him top 50), Exum(not sure he lasts til round 4-5. Jarvis Landry is a much more effective WR than his test numbers suggest. Dude can ball.. Jonathin Dowling who is talked about as a 6th, 7th or possibly even UDFA and he is such a better talent than that. This kid is such a PLAYMAKER, but it’s very alarming that he was kicked off of an Urban Myer team. I really don’t know what his personality is, or what type of character flags this kid has(I know they exsist I just don’t know what type). But I do know that 6’3 190lb safety with 33inch arms who can cover man to man, and brings 4.5 speed is a talent I would LOVE to take a flier on in rounds 6 or 7. This kid had 9 INTs and 8FF these past two years. he also has a knack for scoring TDs off of INTs or ST(blocked kicks) at clutch times, nice amount of PBUs…like I said, I have no idea what his character concerns are, and we all know how important the interview process is for this regime, but if we thought his red flags were manageable, there are few kids we can get so late in the draft with his type of talent and playmaking ability. Really hoping we think his red flags are manageable and have him on our big board.
We can assume that Geno Smith did “fall”, as he was invited to the first day of the draft, with the expectation that somebody there wanted him that early, and got someone they wanted better instead.
For Geno to have Fallen it would have to mean that more than half of the NFL teams had a first round grade on him…I don’t know that to be the case, do you?
Bill Polian just talked about this on NFL radio. He talked about why the media “experts” can be so wrong sometimes.
1. System fit. Every team creates a board os 100-175 players (give or take). Every team’s board s different. One bud reason is fit. Aaron Donakd will be a top 15 player for some teams, but may have a 3rd round grade from others because he would only be a situational pass rusher. The media has to rank players without cobsidering schene fits.
2. Teams all have their doctors do a medical check on these players. Many players fall for undisclosed medical reason. Boykin is a great example.
3. Character is also a huge factor. Teams interview these kids. Tge speak to their coaches, their parents, and their friends. They know their off the field behavior much better than the media.
When you combine these things players can rise and fall from a media perpective, but are really selected by more informed people. Bill did say that most of the draft experts are pretty good talent evaluators and do a great job cobsidering the limited information they are given.
As another example, did Jaiquan Jarrett really jump up from the fifth round to the second or did teams have him there all along?
I didn’t say it was a good example…
Doubt more than half the GMs had a second round grade on him, so it’s probably safe to call him an epic reach….Goodell is always doing ish to get fans more engaged! finding a way to make more money..
…
One thing I would love to see him do, is collect every teams draft board when the draft ends and make all 32 of them public..would be really really cool to see how teams valued different guys…heck, if that idiot has the power to start changing extra points, Eliminating field goals and start playing with a triangular ball, he can force teams to make their draft boards public lol
“Just because players have a similar build doesn’t mean they are the same guy. We don’t know that Chip Kelly has interest in Cooks, but if the Eagles do take him, it won’t be a hypocritical move. Cooks and DeSean are different players.”
But they still play the same position on the team, “y” flanker receiver. I think the eagles are looking for an x receiver since they’ve focused more on bigger receivers
Mel Kiper talking about Bruce Ellington,Brandon Coleman and Jarvis Landry in round 2 for the Carolina Panthers…are ANY of those players round two talents? Wtf?
I used to think that signing Tim Tebow would be about what it would take for me to denounce my Eagles heritage. I’m not so sure the same doesn’t apply to Johnny Football. I just don’t buy him as an NFL QB. At least not a great one. I think it will be harder for him to make the same plays he made in college against bigger, stronger and faster players. If the Eagles NEEDED a QB, that would be one thing. But the thought of moving on from Foles for this guy actually makes me sick.
I can’t wait to see the first time an eagle hits Johnny Manziel…btw, please don’t ever refer to that twerp as “football” again 🙂
LOL. My bad.
Hopefully Cox or Curry are the first to blast him. Really really hoping the jaguars draft him. So we can play against him to start the season
Why not? I mean his size and shape bear a strong resemblance…
You are looking at this all wrong. Chip didn’t try to recruit Johnny QB, he recruited Johnny Football. Manziel is our replacement for DeMeco. On offense, he will be taking over DeSean’s role. Meanwhile, Benjamin will be the ROLB of the future, while slowly taking over Celek’s role.
That is definitely the story here. Either that, or we have had to wait entirely too long for the draft.
Manziel has a higher upside than Foles, as I’ve said before, so I personally would not think that Foles being great is much of a barrier. I don’t think Manziel presents all that much more of an upside than Foles, and Manziel is not a consistently sound passer or processor of a QB’s duties.
What’s probably more pertinent is that Manziel doesn’t have very much on Tajh Boyd, or Tyrod Taylor, Boyd being a bit less accurate than the other two (Tyrod Taylor’s play being a decent translation to think of in the NFL). So if you reasonably believe that Manziel is some top tier talent, you can save a lot of draft power by drafting Boyd or Brett Smith in a later round. Not sure Boyd goes later than third round, though… Getting Manziel on the basis of his star power also doesn’t make sense, given the marketing effort behind Foles.
Nobody is going to take that rumor seriously, I don’t think. Same as the one that said that the Texans were taking Bortles. Doesn’t make sense. If Kelly is going to give Barkley the heave-ho this year, I seriously doubt he’s going to do it for anyone other than Smith, Logan Thomas, or Stephen Morris, and honestly, not even those guys are likely.
“While the Eagles might want Manziel, they could be talked into trading
pick 22 since they already have Nick Foles in place. At least that would
be the story they sold other teams who called to inquire about a deal.”
We’ve talked about a similar trade strategy with Geno Smith last year (and disagreed about the effect of that strategy last year as well), but by showing interest in Manziel, I don’t think will make teams interested in trading with the Eagles specifically at 22 for Manziel. By showing interest, it would make a team who thinks the Eagles may draft Manziel try to trade AHEAD of the Eagles rather than with the Eagles. If we get to pick 22 and Manziel is still on the phone, the Eagles will not be able to sell a trade of “we are KIND of interested in Manziel, but if you want to impress us with a trade where we move back a few spots, we will be willing to pass on a QB we rate as a first round talent.” The value in trading draft picks in the NFL is to get ahead of other teams who may be interested in the same player you are interested in, not to take a player away from a team who wanted to draft the same player.
And looking back in retrospect with regards to Geno, you have to wonder if instead of looking at Geno as a target at #4, they predicted he would fall to their second round pick and wanted to determine if he was worth their 2nd round pick, rather than them trying an elaborate strategy of having a team trade up with them for Geno at 4.
I agreed with this last year, and I agree now. The rumor we should be spreading is that he won’t make it past 23.
What A_T_G seems to be saying is this:
“I believed that then; and I believe that now.”
“…and I have someone who would know better than the rumor source telling me it absolutely won’t happen.”
Which is exactly what they would say if he really was the guy they want…
I hope we trade down. I feel as if there would be more value in the 2-3 rounds rather than at 22.
Attaochu and Bucannon? Yes pls.
attaucho and Allen Robinson, both will be 21yr old rookies…
…
Ideally, I’m hoping we figure out a way to trade down and come away with:
Allen Robinson or Cody Latimer
Kyle Van Noy
Attaucho or Marcus smith
…
If we can find a way to make those kids our first 3 picks, we should go on to have an amazing draft…..
…
This NEEDS to be Chips “money draft”
…
had a dream last might that darquez Dennard blew out his ACL in a predraft workout…
I had a dream someone did too but can’t remember who it was!
Just want to point out, both Kiper and McShay have Barr falling past 22. If we don’t trade down, which I’m also ok with, I’m really getting into the idea of drafting Barr now.
IMO,Barr is the only prospect whom could fall to us, that would be worth considering to turn down a trade back scenario to draft…he has the superstar upside we should be trying to aquire. He plays one of the 3 most valued positions which happens to be a weak position in this draft,,,,you run to the podium and turn your card in by hand if he is on the board at 22…. Trading back, getting an extra pick and landing Barr would make Howie a GOD lol, but that’s just greedy 🙂
One final thing. Please! From philly.com:
Of the 18 PLAYERS WHO HAD MORE RECEPTIONS last season, only two – Andre and Calvin Johnson – had bigger 2014 cap numbers than DeSean. Of the 13 PLAYERS WHO HAD MORE TOUCHDOWN CATCHES, only two – the Johnsons again – had a bigger cap number.
Jackson’s cap number would have been higher than that of 20 of the league’s 32 starting quarterbacks. It would have been $3 million MORE than that of teammate LeSean McCoy, who led the league in rushing last season.
After watching him fail to gain more than 60 receiving yards in 5 of his last 6 games last season, and after watching Saints corner Keenan Lewis manhandle Jackson in the playoffs, the Eagles weren’t interested in giving him another pile of money.
No matter how fast and explosive Jackson is, no matter how many 20-plus-yard catches he had last year, the fact of the matter is that it’s hard to justify having a 5-9 1/2, 175-pound receiver who got his lunch eaten in the playoffs taking up nearly $13 million of your cap space.
Comparing to …
…Bucs releasing cornerback Darrelle Revis, the Bears releasing defensive end Julius Peppers and the Cowboys releasing DeMarcus Ware. Revis, Peppers and Ware have a combined total of 20 Pro Bowl appearances….
It is about money first.
Cap money, that is. Cash money is not an issue for most teams, since the cap keeps that down.
Believe very good chance dontae and antone will get converted to safeties but definitely dontae ala j Byrd Both have safety experience as a starter
1) odb or latimer
2) Marcus smith
3) Christian jones
4) dontae Johnson
5) Bre urban
7) Colt Lyeria