The Case for Marqis Lee
Posted: April 9th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 95 Comments »The Eagles are going to be bringing in USC wideout Marqis Lee for a pre-draft visit. This is really good news to me. Lee is coming off an up and down season due to injuries, but he looked like a Top 10 type of player a year ago.
Lee isn’t the huge guy the Eagles have mostly looked at. He is “only” 6-0, 192. With that frame, he could bulk up to over 200 pounds and carry it well if the Eagles want him to do so. Lee only ran 4.52 at the Combine and he’s not a burner.
Put on the tape and you’ll see why Lee is so highly thought of. Check out this game vs Stanford from 2013.
That game shows Lee doing a lot of good things. You see that he’s got very good hands. You see great body control. He’s got the ability to separate from defenders in tight space. He will work the middle of the field and catches the ball well in traffic. He’s got terrific RAC skills. Lee is a willing blocker and has the size/strength to do a solid job.
Put on his 2012 highlights and you’ll see Lee healthy and making some dynamic plays.
He posted huge numbers in 2011 and 2012. Having a star QB like Matt Barkley helped him go 73-1143-11 and 118-1721-14. With a younger player in 2013 and nagging injuries slowing him down, Lee was only 57-791-4.
Lee would fit the Eagles offense. He can move around and be successful in a variety of roles. He could help as a RS. He will block. Lee is a RAC weapon and that would be perfect for Chip Kelly’s quick screens.
It is possible that him visiting is a smokescreen, but I tend to think Kelly saw just how good Lee was for 2 years and has definite interest. Kelly has acquired players that lit him up at Oregon. Lee was 8-187-1 in 2011 and 12-157-2 in 2012. I’d say that got Kelly’s attention in a big way.
I would be happy with the Eagles getting Lee at pick 22. Really good player who has the skills to succeed in the NFL.
_
I think the further down you go in the draft, the fewer smokescreens there are. It’s harder to predict what will happen at pick #22 than pick #4 because more teams will have already picked. Teams are wasting their time if they bring in a player who they have no interest in. How can they possibly know whether he’ll be available at all?
Doesn’t seem like a smokescreen to me. I think that they are truly interested. he does look like a good fit for this offense. I could see him being the pick at 22 if he truly is the BPA. As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if a WR is the bpa at 22.
I would like them to take BPA. If no elite OLB pass rushers, no elite Safety talent and no elite CB talent fall to #22, then Lee will likely be BPA. I really do not want to see the Eagles take a project in the 1st. I do not want to them take a 2nd round Safety talent.
He has good hands, wish he wasn’t such a body catcher. Like ODB better, but if he’s gone Lee’s a decent consolation prize.
As always Good Post Tommy. Long time reading but today is my first time commenting. My Main concerns with Lee as compared to some of the other guys in the draft are that he is to similar to Jeremy Maclin in terms of size and playmaking ability. Look back to Maclin’s college tape. His “upside” was that he was an outstanding RAC player. In the pros I would argue that his game has been more Catch and get down/Out of bounds..Not saying that Lee is the same but I feel like we should be looking for other types of WR. I know it could be a moot point because we are going to go BPA. I like cooks better and even Beckham Jr. seems like a better pro prospect.
Good post. Good analysis to back your opinion.
Taylor. I think that its not a far stretch comparing Maclin to Lee coming out of college. I do think the difference has been the QB’s throwing to Maclin and his exaggerated athleticism. Lee is a smoother athlete to me and Maclin never really learned how to avoid big hits like some other receivers. He always seems to get tackled in a awkward way. This might be due to him being too cautious, since he has been nicked-up frequently. I know he’s coming off a serious injury, but Maclin was hobbled a lot during games. I think he’s a bit gun-shy now and it shows in his RAC. I haven’t seen that from Lee during his time at USC. There’s a good group of receivers I see as (good) fits for the Eagles and Lee is one of them. He’s my 3rd choice for this team if they were to draft one in the 1st round led by a trade up for Mike Evans. (Evans / O’delll Beckham / Lee / Cooks) in that order.
Paul, Thanks for the comment. Yes I agree with what you are saying. Lee is a bit more fluid than Mac is. My point in the above article is that IMO we should be looking for a different type of wr than we already have. Whether it be a outstanding speed guy like cooks (reminds me a lot of a the NFL Version of Randall Cobb on tape), Mike Evans with his height/Weight/speed combo that not many players posses, or even Beckham who seems to be the most fluid and explosive player who has already played in a prostyle offence, and I would also say that FSU big man Kelvin Benjamin who is the least explosive but has the size we could really take advantage off… And remember, these are only the WR we are talking about. I still think OLB and DB (namely safety) are bigger needs and Im praying that one of Pryor, Clinton-DIx, or Barr falls and we can get a top 15 talent who fills a need.
I’m not a fan of Benjamin even a little bit, but I hear ya on maybe wanting to get bigger at WR. In my perfect world (if they stay at 22) the Eagles Draft O’dell Beckham with the 1st, Kyle Van Noy with the second and Deone Bucannon in the 3rd.
For the record im not a huge fan of Benjamin either, however I will trust chip if he so chooses to select him because he would seem to have a plan in place of how to use him. As far as my month before mock draft if they stay at 22 my ideal draft would be Brandin cooks in the 1st, Deone Bucannon in the 2nd (I doubt he makes it to our 3rd), and stanley jean baptisite in the 3rd. Honestly my ideal would be trading brandon graham and our 2nd for dion jordan. I love his upside in our scheme.
You may be right on Bucannon not lasting till the 3rd. Brandon Graham might be traded for a pick come draft day…we’ll see. As far as Dion Jordan, I’m in the camp that doesn’t believe he’s as good as his hype. I can’t get by the fact that he really wasn’t a stand out college player (in making actual plays). Everyone harps on his ability to play the pass and he only has 2 PBU’s in 3 years at Oregon…how does that even happen? I think his potential (physically) and combine turned him into a superhero without ever really being a productive player. I don’t think he’s the most instinctual player either. I’ve had this debate with some other Eagles fans a few times….and everytime I look at it, I would much rather have Anthony Barr on my team…even a slimmed down Trent Murphy (who seems to lack elite physical gifts but knows how to play football). My favorite defensive player in the draft, although vastly undersized for the position is Telvin Smith. If he was an inch taller and 20lbs heavier he’d be a top 5 pick.
The thing that I like when I see these highlights of Lee that I don’t see with Beckham and Cooks is that he has amazing body control and when making alot, if not all, of these catches against the sideline he is getting both feet down.
I feel like when I see highlights of Cooks and Beckham they are making nice catches but they would be incomplete at the next level due to not getting both feet down. I feel like that is a huge plus.
Agree with one commentator he does kinda reminds me of Maclin at Mizzuo but at 22 if the top DBs are off the board I would not be too disturbed to have this guy in green.
I now live on the Westcoast so this is great that Chip is trying putting together the all decade Pac-12 team.
Finally, an Eagles fan with the courage to mention Earl Thomas.
Something odd about Earl Thomas. How many years have the Philadelphia Eagles been in existence? How many players have the Eagles drafted? How many were fails? Yet all anybody on these boards talks about is Earl Thomas. Was everybody here, except AC Viking, born after 1999?
I was just kidding around. I think Thomas hurts since we were all spoiled by Dawkins who had left a year before and the fans wanted to find a replacement and then we missed on Brandon Graham/Nate Allen.
I also think it was kind of beginning of the end of Reid getting the benifit of the doubt from alot of the fans.
Was the coaching(or lack of it) is what `missed` w/Graham and Allen.
Pryor is a huge reach in round 1.
?! I can understand not liking him, but “huge reach?” Half the places you look, Pryor wouldn’t even be available for us to draft at 22, let alone be a reach.
Can’t tackle and has limited coverage experience. Measured in smaller than expected and isn’t the athletic freak he was hyped to be. No thanks let some other desperate team pick him up.
I agree that the size is concerning, and I have become less and less interested in drafting Pryor, but my argument isn’t against drafting him or not, it is against labeling that pick a “reach”. Basically every where you look he is rated as a top 20-30 prospect. Those ratings are obviously not necessarily the way teams actually view him, but they give a reasonable approximation, and picking him may prove to be a mistake, but it wouldn’t be a “reach” at least not in the way I would think of “reach.” To me, “reach” would mean drafting a player way ahead of where any other team has that player rated.
I guess I am just arguing semantics rather than arguing your evaluation.
He’s simply overrated. There was an analysis by Sigmund Bloom on Pryor, I would link it if I wasn’t on mobile.
What impressed me the most
about the second video is how
far and accurate Barkley threw the ball.
I think you got a few extra syllables in there. ‘Round these parts we take our haiku very serious.
wudupirfirrunonfrzs
No, the phrasing was good. If I may…
Impressed by the second,
But bare-Lee by who you’d think.
Barkley: long and straight.
Great haiku, but the interpretation could take an awkward bend.
OK…nice but i was just makin a comment,seeinas how everybody knocks the guy for his arm strength..
Yeah, I know. The formatting just made it look like a haiku and it gave an excuse to try to revive something from last off season.
No matter how you
Try to Matt it down, A_T_,
Flutterballs abound.
One thing that concerns me is Lee doesn’t look like he’s 192 on any of that film. On film he looks like a 4.4 guy as well. I think he played at 175-180, put weight on for the combine and lost a lot of speed from it. That concerns me.
yeah, I noticed that too. Speed was good on tape, but definitely didn’t look as big as advertised. At least he doesn’t seem to play small.
He’s a willing blocker, and will fight for balls, but between some issues with his hands and him being so light, I have my reservations. He’s personally my number 5 receiver behind: Watkins, Evans, ODB, an Cooks.
Whats your thoughts on Allen Robinson losing 20 pounds to put up nice numbers at his pro day. Which weight/numbers more closely resembles his film, combine or pro-day?
Combine. Most people expected Robinson to test out in the low 4.5s. Alot of guys magically get a full tenth faster at their pro days wihtout dropping weight. Of the time movement from 4.60 to 4.47, I would .1 of it is just being on a faster surface and the other .03 is the weight loss.
Maybe its not a smokesscreen, but now that its out there….whoever wants him (lets say Carolina for just example purposes) can jump in front of us and take him.
That’s true of all the targets we bring in that could be viewed as a potential 22nd pick. So the same could be said about Benjamin for example. The idea is that these guys are possibilities some of them would be smokescreens while others would be guys we have real interest in. By mixing it up enough, you force teams like Carolina to simply guess.
True, I guess you are right…I hope it is a smokescreen that makes everyone jump up for Cooks and Lee, so we can get ODB…even though I think Bigger WR is the guy. I think Ebron would be a better option then a WR, but the chances of him falling to us is slim.
Agree 100% on Ebron. 2 TE sets with Ertz and Ebron would be lethal! I think he’s worth trading up for.
It’s hard to believe that anybody would fall for a “smokescreen”. Not with every team allowed 30 private visits. Would be a lot more intrigue if there were only 15 visits. Plus there are intelligent people running other teams too, all looking at the same film, all with their own contacts in college and even high school ranks or retired players/coaches.
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/dave-spadaro/article-1/Unknowns-Trying-To-Get-Known/b6ae82a6-7aeb-438e-8b14-fb32eb891ac7 Dave gave us some nuggets. Tommy I know you tend to decipher Dave to see what points are useful or not. From this and other things he has posted, what should we look at and what should we ignore when trying to read him for hidden gems of information.
When it comes down to the Draft Dave S. Knows as much as Megan Fox knows about the holy bible.
The case against Marqis Lee: He’s not Mike Evans.
did LSU have their pro day today?
it is today
Landry ran 4.58. Vertical 30.5. 3 cone is pretty sad.
Nothing earth shattering. We knew this right? Landry is more football player than athlete
Yeah. The draft can’t get here soon enough.
He has a bad knee and you want him to bulk up? Are you serious? Just what Philly needs another Wideout with a bad knee…Good Grief…
Everyone says your first round pick should be a marquee name…
We’ve had Kings (Dunlap, Hill) play for us but never a Marqis!
Question for anyone who knows more about scouting prospects than me (read: anyone): in the videos in the post, Lee does some body catching, but also plucks the ball cleanly and smoothly. How is that viewed? Is it enough that he demonstrated that he can pluck it and the body catches are just seen as a byproduct of inferior opposition? Is it a major red flag? Is it a sign of good situational awareness?
His hands are certainly an area he needs to improve. In the games I watched he had one play where he was wide open on a deep pass and simply dropped the ball on the five yardline. In another game he ran a 12 yard in-route and had the ball hit him right in the chest, pop up into the air and get pick sixed.
The HANDS sections of this post also has some good stuff:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/27/5552738/nfl-draft-2014-wide-receivers-scouting-notes-traits-breakdown
IMO Hands is not easy to be coached. It will be a major issue for him a la Mike Wallace.
Agreed, he will never have great hands. He can probably make some small improvements, but the question for teams wanting to draft him will be does everything else he can do outweigh his subpar hands?
Thanks. What about in the more abstract. Does body catching always equate to bad hands, or is it forgivable in certain situations?
I guess the way I kind of think of it is similar to being taught to not “basket catch” everything in teeball. Everybody initially learns to simply hold the glove out and let the ball fall into the glove, that works well, but eventually you need to learn how to reach out and pluck the ball from the air with your glove. There are still time when the basket catch makes sense, on ground balls and when you get handcuffed, but the problem arises when you have people who try to use the basket catch way over their head despite that not being effective.
So what I’m trying to say in essence is that body catching is not automatically bad. Every receiver ever has had to make catches with their bodies. It’s certainly acceptable in a variety of situations, i.e. you’ve got a corner all over you and tangling up your arms, you get an awkward tumbling pass. you know you are about to get crushed so you let it into your body for security etc. The problem arises when you fall back on making body catches when they aren’t necessary because they aren’t the optimal way to catch a football. I saw an article earlier in the year that killed Allen Robinson for doing this. Basically while running crossing routes, Robinson likes to jump up so he can catch the ball in his chest, rather than simply plucking the ball out of the air. That shows he doesn’t trust his hands. Also its very detrimental because he loses speed, so he isn’t as productive when he goes to turn up the field as he could have been had he simply used his hands to catch the ball.
Great stuff. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I read the label “body catcher” in the comments sections sometimes like it is simply a yes or no box that gets checked off. I imagined it was more complex than that.
Lee do have soft hands when he uses the correct technique. The question will be, can he learn that? Such as not flailing with his arms like in the above piece.
Lee also dropped over 11% of his passes last year.
Pryor still my preferred choice at 22
http://youtu.be/0oC5QVHAhhM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2014/futures-louisville-s-calvin-pryor
Re: players’ 40 time
I read the other day that a player in this year’s draft cut his 40 time by re-working his posture out of the block. Stayed lower, slowly raised up.
(May have been Kony Ealy. Don’t remember at the moment.)
That’s not how football player’s play.
I think a more meaningful number would be a player’s time on the last 25 yards — capturing a players true straight-line speed.
True, you don’t get that split time. But the split is a function of a good start from a sprinter’s position.
I welcome all thoughts on this. There’s a reason Jerry Rice was never caught from behind during his prime, while having a lousy 40 time.
That’s a good point and it’s also why the 10 yard split is the most important one for offensive lineman because it shows their burst off the line.
Great point about OLs . . . they ARE in a sprinter’s stance to start.
You and your old roomie [D3FB] offer such great commentary here.
Interesting. I wonder if scouts capture a player’s speed from game film. It would seem most skill position guys are on film running in a straight line as fast as they can. I would think that would be valuable, for the reasons you suggest.
Yeah mate you right. The lower you can stay low before you raise your head the better your take off. So your stride out n if you can get to 20 steps without looking up thats good power out. Like a plane taking off. We train with sprint trainers in our sport n we train 80m slow down 10m then blast out the last 10m or 60m depending if its 100m sprints or 150m.. Your speed is normally hitting its peak at the 60m to 80m zone
I think the fact that everyone’s trying to do the same thing offers some parity in the stat; it’s like any standardized test.
I’ve always been more of a vertical jump man myself.
From hibernation,
An Eagles Blitz exclusive.
Haikus have been missed.
For all of us not familiar:
Haiku (俳句 haikai verse?) (no separate plural form) is a very short form of Japanese poetry typically characterised by three qualities:
The essence of haiku is “cutting” (kiru).[1] This is often represented by the juxtaposition of two images or ideas and a kireji (“cutting word”) between them,[2] a kind of verbal punctuation mark which signals the moment of separation and colors the manner in which the juxtaposed elements are related.
Traditional haiku consist of 17 on (also known as morae), in three phrases of 5, 7 and 5 on respectively.[3]
A kigo (seasonal reference), usually drawn from a saijiki, an extensive but defined list of such words.
Modern Japanese haiku (現代俳句 gendai-haiku?) are increasingly unlikely to follow the tradition of 17 on or to take nature as their subject, but the use of juxtaposition continues to be honored in both traditional and modern haiku.[4] There is a common, although relatively recent, perception that the images juxtaposed must be directly observed everyday objects or occurrences.[5]
In Japanese, haiku are traditionally printed in a single vertical line while haiku in English often appear in three lines to parallel the three phrases of Japanese haiku.[6]
Previously called hokku, haiku was given its current name by the Japanese writerMasaoka Shiki at the end of the 19th century.
Wow, great info. And remember, bonus points for double entrende and shots at NFCE rivals.
As is the ancient Japanese tradition.
DeSean got the boot,
So he goes on vacation,
Blows off the Redskins.
Saw Ryan Clark doing his thing on sportscenter today. I don’t think they care about OTAs, or paying a guy that’s got one foot into retirement.
We don’t need practice,
Or strength and conditioning,
It’s the Redskins way.
No draft to speak of,
OLine, mascot disgraceful.
Dan red in the face.
DeSean for no pick,
The draft is not a concern,
Got the names you know.
The star does not shine.
Old, expensive, and washed up.
Jerry’s cap heavy.
Jerry is a fool,
God enjoys his new toilet,
Star target for stool.
Ware is now elsewhere.
Jerry is coming undone.
Romo’s got his back.
Romo is so great,
His front intimidates you,
Jerry’s got his rear.
I’m totally shocked we have yet to see a compare / contrast of why Benjamin is better than Lee………….. or do we only get treated to that on 24-7?
I think it’s Marqis(e).
Landry’s pro day…hopefully he can be our late round guy
Landry also dropped “three to four passes” in what is being
described as a “rough” day. This all comes on the heels of a disastrous
Combine that saw Landry run a painfully-slow 4.77 forty before dropping
out of the drill altogether with a calf problem. He was also
significantly shorter than LSU listed him in college. Landry is staring
at a slide possibly into the 4-7 round range.
He measured in at 5’11 at the combine..so why is his height a concern now? He’s not going to slide much when he’s the best slot receiver in this draft.
had a hammy at combine so didn’t do any drills / measurables so today was probably a let down (not for me). I’m sort of wondering if sproles precludes landry 🙁
What? Every scout and even amateur draftniks knew he wouldn’t test well. He shines on the field and not in his underwear. He might have had a few drops today but that’s a small sample size compared to his entire season.
haha my original post was a quote from a scout. My fault for not giving credit where due. I’m with you. I don’t care about any of the combine / measurables stuff, had the fewest drops by far this year, can run routes, block, fights for balls, catch TDs, etc.
Yea I just saw the fansided article. That’s literally one article that thinks he’ll slide out of day 2.
I’m trying to find trends as to what coach Kelly wants in players and I believe one significant ability trend that they might value a lot is the YAC or RAC however you’d like to say it. All of the WRs that they have brought in so far or have scouted thrive In this area. I truly believe that in this offense a guy that has sure hands can move the chains on 3rd down. Also have the ability to make someone miss in the open field and get those RAC yards for tds has greater value then Jackson one great asset with his deep threat ability
Admittedly, I haven’t watched anything on Lee recently. I’ve seen him a few years ago, but I wasn’t really watching deeply. I have to admit that I really like his game and if he is the same guy pre-injury, I could certainly see him thrive in this offense. Kid’s got some serious skills & I like his passion.
Anyone know the severity and specifics on his knee injury? That would be the only thing that scares me away. I need to look at some 2013 games and see if he’s got the same explosive traits.
uh-oh spaghetti-o
Penn State WR Allen Robinson ran forty times of 4.48 and 4.50 at the Nittany Lions’ Pro Day.
They’re improvements on his 4.60 Combine time. Robinson was
extremely impressive with his jumps, ripping off a 42-inch vertical and
10-foot-11 broad jump, adding a 6.54 three-cone time. For perspective,
Robinson’s vertical would’ve led all wideouts at the Combine, while his
broad leap would have come in third behind Ole Miss’ Donte Moncrief and
Baylor’s Tevin Reese.
injuries…injuries…injuries…will the Eagles ever learn?
Donte Moncrief 6’2″ 221 lbs.would be a wise choice great 40 time at 4.40 and a great blocker 59 rec 938 yds 6 TD’s…projected 2nd RD pick could be there at pick 54
I dunno I hear Chip whining about his wrs being able to beat man-press coverage and being physical …………. and that is Lee’s worse attribute. He isn’t physical at all. He is horrible off the press and literally cannot make a tough catch when a corner gets physical w him. He is horribly catching the ball after contact …. and that is what makes the good wrs great in the nfl …. exactly what makes anquan bolden and reggie wayne great and made Jerry Rice the greatest along w work ethic. I am concerned about both w Lee
Doesn’t do anything as well as Watkins or ODB, doesn’t have short area quickness or RAC better than cooks, doesn’t have size or physicality, and has lingering injury concerns and a poor combine leading me to think he may have some work ethic/conditioning problems. really bothers me he didn’t want to retest at his proday and show nfl evaluators he was better than that sorry performance at the combine. He is like a poor man’s maclin. W little upside.
Watched a few games w Barkley and while he made some great plays on short throws I noticed a ton of miscommunications and mistakes and errors on routes, etc …. dunno whose fault that is but there was a lot.
And that’s another thing … chip always says he doesn’t want players at the same position w duplicate skills … well maclin already does alot of what lee does … including the lack of physicality and injury concerns. Why duplicate that?
Sounds like a good kid who beat the odds and a tough upbringing. But I don’t see how he is BPA at 22 ….
I’d rather have watkins, evans, odb, cooks …. shit I’d rather trade down and take Lee at like mid 40s but even there I would rather have Robinson or Adams, or Latimer or Moncrief ….
I see way more upside w the bigger wrs who may not be as good as rookies but can improve in so many teachable areas whereas Lee has probably already peaked (other than running better routes) for a guy who already relies on his speed and quickness too much and has horrible vision.
The thing that I see in Lee that I like is similar to McCoy. Both aren’t burners (posted around the same 40 times at the combine), but they have that almost impossible on-field elusiveness that makes them able to create so well.