Eagles Notebook
Posted: April 1st, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 83 Comments »The Texans released Safety Danieal Manning the other day and a few fans have asked about whether the Eagles should be interested. I haven’t had a chance to watch any tape on Manning. Would the Eagles be interested in another veteran S? Adam Caplan said this on Twitter recently.
#Bears and #Eagles also had varying interest in Ihedigbo.
— Adam Caplan (@caplannfl) March 25, 2014
@caplannfl – Did Eagles still have interest even after signing Jenkins + Ihedigbo and re-signing Allen?
— Greg Richards (@eaglesnut) March 25, 2014
@eaglesnut: Yep.
— Adam Caplan (@caplannfl) March 26, 2014
Interesting. The Eagles might be open to adding another veteran. I don’t know if Manning is that guy. He’s getting ready to turn 32. The Texans wanted him to take a pay cut, but he refused. He doesn’t seem like a guy the Eagles would go for, but I can’t completely rule out the idea. Just think of it as doubtful.
* * * * *
Another note from Caplan.
The #Eagles recently restructured WR Brad Smith's contract: Lowered cap # by $350 K. Lowered base by $395 K; guaranteed $450 K (base, SB).
— Adam Caplan (@caplannfl) March 28, 2014
I’m not sure that means a whole lot, but it is interesting that they made the adjustment. The Eagles obviously saw some advantage to it.
* * * * *
Many of you still want an explanation from the Eagles in regard to DeSean. You’ll get some comments eventually, but they will never satisfy you with a long, detailed explanation of how and why things went down as they did. There isn’t just one thing. This is a combination of things. The Eagles, like all teams, prefer secrecy to being an open book. They aren’t going to offer details on who thought what and when this all happened and if there was one event that broke the camel’s back, so to speak.
* * * * *
One question regularly posed by some is this…are the Eagles a better team now with DeSean gone?
Obviously they want you to say “no” and then try to explain how dumb the Eagles are for making the move. I completely get that mentality and the logic behind it.
I think asking if the team is better is impossible to answer. The team is less talented. There is no question about that. You can’t take away the team’s best WR and not lose talent. Better? That’s more complicated. Football teams are like annual chemistry experiments. You add this and adjust that and see what happens.
I can’t tell you how the 2014 Eagles are going to perform. It is possible that they will be better. Jeremy Maclin could have a monster year. The Eagles could add some stud rookie who turns out to be a dominant player. Maybe Darren Sproles is an impact player. Maybe Zach Ertz has a breakout season and turns into a huge weapon.
It is also possible that the Eagles will miss DeSean and the offense will struggle at times.
I think we need to see the rest of the spring before making any predictions and even then…we’ll be guessing. Time will tell if the team is better off or not. We can all throw up opinions on the move, but we won’t have answers until we see how things play out on the field (and off it to a certain extent).
_
I think Manning to the Eagles is a done deal given the love of the Eagles FO for former Texans players.
why are the eagles signing former texans? is it coincidence??
Because the Texans used to be great in 2011 and 2012. I wish we would be signing former Seahakws players instead though…
problem is, how many former Seahawks are hitting the market?
We also added one former Hawk this off season
you didn’t get my irony, did you?
They ran a zone blocking scheme on offense, and a 34 defense. Similar schemes.
Because they all want to get the hell out of Texas (the state)???
This is what is so great about the NFL off season – the planning and manipulation of the roster to get the best culture and blend of young and veteran players to either fit a system or to fit a great QB’s style. Factor in short term versus long term goals as well as the unknown of injuries. Kelly should be thinking longer term with a solid future versus win in 2014 at any cost. Obviously CK is developing his own brand and cannot yet be certain about many key factors such as is Foles a legitimate Pro Bowl QB and leader. If so, you build the offense to his game and receivers become plug and play – look at Brady and Peyton – receivers matter, but they are not necessarily the central figures. He must believe the team is better off long run without the dude.
Chip likes to take hidden gems and then shape and polish them. Oregon never could compete with USC, UCLA, and Washington in recruiting 5 star recruits. Chip uses coaching and scheme fit to plug players into his system and make them great. He loves this side of coaching. He also does not like the baggage that comes with ego driven, selfish 5 star recruits – he’ll take ’em if the can but he knows the baggage that they usually bring to the team.
I imagine he also enjoys polishing bright, shiny gems with all the right measurables too.
I’d imagine camp bodies are still needed for safety. I was hoping the Eagles would take a peek at Britt. I know, he’s trouble. But he has shown some talent. Just wondering if the DJ was going to happen no matter what … would it have made sense to sign Decker or resolve the issue earlier in the season.
Britt signed with Jeff Fisher and the Rams.
Gardner is strictly a camp body, after this much time in the league he should at least be a solid backup, not a fringe roster player, look at someone like Maragos, for example. Classic tweener. If he makes the team at age 28 that would not be a good sign (i.e. lack of better talent).
Whether the team will be better is tricky, but I can say confidently it will be a better team. DeSean wasn’t a good fit as a full-time player, forget the stats, he limits your flexibility, as a part-time boy scout tinker toy making $6M Chip would love him, as a $12M starter who demands the ball or pouts, and whose lack of size makes him a liability against teams with good press CBs, he’s not a great starting WR. Talent only matters relative to scheme (unless you’re Reggie White).
They’ll add some big WRs in this draft (and UDFAs) and probably a quick slot guy for returns and part-time duty (D Johnson on steroids). Chip likes to roll out different group of players against different defenses, and he’ll reshape the WR core to allow him to set up mismatches.
Where cutting DeSean will help is 2015-16, $29M in cap relief spread out over two years – that’s a lot of fiscal flexibility.
Gardner kind of seems like a Barbre-type guy. A journeyman looking for a backup spot. One certainly doesn’t want too many of those guys taking spots from young guys with potential. If they both make the 53-man roster, I’ll be concerned for the future of our OLine.
Gardner has never really played, he has something like 48 career snaps. Barbre had been a key backup and made 7 starts before coming to the Eagles.
Honest question: does that make you more or less excited about his prospects? Is he a potential untapped resource, or is he a 28-year old that was never good enough to get on the field?
Less. Texans don’t invest heavily in their OL and see them as largely interchangeable parts. The fact he didn’t at least see some playing time by this point in his career means he’s likely a camp body. If he makes great strides perhaps he gets to be the inactive OL player on game day. I don’t think he makes the team. The five starters, Molk/Vandervelde, Kelly, Bamiro, Barbre, any rookie all have better shots at making the team. Only way he makes it is if we see a run of injuries.
Mathis was a journeyman too before he got here. Never hurts to look…
Once again, I’m not claiming journeyman linemen have no value. I’m saying that the big difference between, Mathis and Barbre vs. Gardner is Gardner hasn’t played. He has like 48 snaps, most of which are special teams. Barbre had made 7 starts and Mathis had 22. Big difference. It’s like Mike Mcglynn vs. Julian Vandervelde.
“DeSean wasn’t a good fit as a full-time player, forget the stats, he
limits your flexibility, as a part-time boy scout tinker toy making $6M
Chip would love him, as a $12M starter who demands the ball or pouts,
and whose lack of size makes him a liability against teams with good
press CBs, he’s not a great starting WR. Talent only matters relative
to scheme (unless you’re Reggie White).”
–This is one of the most intelligent well thought out reasons why long term DeSean wasn’t in the plans.
Still I think it was 1 year too soon and getting nothing in return is a huge failure on their part. If we got a 1st and 3rd, I wouldn’t even blink…it’d make total sense. Add with what you said, the fact that hes a negative influence, a distraction and shitty team mate and it all makes perfect sense. I just would have like to have seen them ensure his replacement was on the roster first and actually get some compensation in return for such a great commodity.
They tried two straight off seasons.
No one was offering more than a used bag of footballs.
Sometime you just have to cut your losses and move on, I think Chip feels it’s better to figure out how to live without DeSean now than drag it out another season.
You’d figure if 49’s/Browns etc are going HARD after DJ that they would have paid a pile of used Gatorade cups for him in a trade…just so he wouldn’t sign elsewhere, like DC…
The Raiders were able to trade a washed-up Randy Moss in 2007, who had an even worse dedication, work ethic and me first reputation for a 4th rd pick. Moss at the time was 30 years old, coming off of a 42 rec 553 yard, 3 TD season with base salaries of $9.75 million in 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008 due on his deal at the time.
While I respect your view point and you very well might be correct in regards to Chip’s thinking, I can’t agree that giving up DeSean for nothing was the optimal utilization of that resource by the FO.
That being said…if in league circles it is starting to become clear that Jackson is possibly funding some criminal enterprise or is more heavily involved with gangs than a few hand symbols would indicate…then it all starts to make sense. Now the urgency to get rid of him makes sense, now the lack of a trade market or even really a FA market makes more sense. The gag order around Nova Care makes sense. That’s all I’m saying.
That was without alleged gang ties and before Aaron Hernandez.
Times they have a changed.
Either the gang affiliations run deep and are a big concern, which would go along with my point that revelations about serious gang ties are the only thing that makes this make sense, or the gang ties were nothing more than he occasionally hangs out with/raps with same naughty people, which hasn’t stopped any team in this league from handing out money and contract extensions to any of the number of players in this league that still have connections to the unsavory people they grew up around.
“Washed up” Randy Moss?
He was 30 years old in 2007, and over the next three years racked up 3757 yards and 47 TDs.
In 2006, he had Andrew Walter and a washed up Aaron Brooks throwing to him, in 2007 he had Tom Brady.
Randy Moss at 30 was far better than DeSean at 27, at 6’4 215 with long arms, soft hands and great body control, if he lost two steps and was only a 4.45 guy he was still one of the best WRs in the NFL, if DeSean loses one step he’s a JAG.
I think you missed the point…I in no way think Randy Moss was actually washed up, he went on to have 4 more incredibly productive, HOF worthy years in New England. The point was, at the time, the prevailing opinion was that he had lost a step, was not motivated and was washed up, that he no longer was an elite WR. Hence why NE was able to get him for cheap. The point was to compare compensation received for Moss coming off his worst year statistically and DeSean coming off his best year, in the middle of his prime.
And, yes I know Moss is a better WR than Jackson…
You can see how much the opinion of Moss league wide changed during his 2 yrs in Oakland. In 2005 Oakland traded the 7th overall pick, Napoleon Harris and 2 7th round picks to Minnesota for Moss. Two yrs later they were only able to get a 4th rounder. The reason was, most people (wrongly) believed at the time that Moss was washed up. No one thinks DeSean is washed up.
It’s interesting how quickly the narrative has coalesced around the idea that he was cut “for a variety of reasons”, including attitude, professionalism, gangbangerie, and being overrated. The idea that there might be a BIG reason is being systematically ignored. Just find it odd how out of the morass of uncertainty comes this fairly consistent narrative in the blogosphere.
I actually completely agree with you. I am convinced that there’s some serious dirt that will come out about Jackson in the near future that will make all of this make a lot more sense. All the nebulous, “Chip didn’t like his attitude” — while he was racking up yards and points with him all last season with no incident. And, “he missed meetings” — which was never reported at all last season. Or, the “he didn’t fit the culture and was a terrible influence” — despite never being punished, benched, demoted or reprimanded in any visible way last season. Or, “they wanted to make an example out of him” — despite never making that example while he was playing here last year.
All of it reeks of BS and doesn’t add up in my eyes like one big reason would.
Gangbangerie. I get so many questions on that one on my resume. Glad to see I’m not alone.
This was an interesting read. Albert Hayensworth hangover?
http://www.hogshaven.com/2014/3/31/5562782/looks-like-someone-has-a-sixpack-of-the-mondays-just-say-no-to-desean
And feeling the burn from the McNabb trade as well.
My favorite part:
“Our track record of picking through Philadelphia’s trash is horrible… They just ALWAYS seem to get rid of their star players at exactly the right moment.”
Yeah it was nice reading an outsiders view on that.
Enlightened D.C reporter/blogger types have said this for years. Unfortunately the majority of them are not enlightened, or very good in general.
The things they were saying last off season about the Eagles. I could only laugh to myself at the time at how clueless they are.
I think the “Are the Eagles better?” question is also ignoring the fact that 2014 won’t be our last season, unless Lurie pulls an Irsay. 10.5 mill will almost certainly make a bigger impact in the future than the loss of Jackson, given how many other weapons the team has. He was a luxury. 20 mill and no one would even be discussing why he’s gone. 1 mill and he’d be on the team or traded for a high draft pick. So it’s just a question of how much you feel he’s worth. I’m excited by the move, not because DeSean is gone, but because this shows the foresight and discipline that great organizations have. I’d like to be thinking Super Bowl for the next 5-10 years, and not just in the preseason like Skins fans. 😉
I agree with you that it is hard to answer the question of are the Eagles “better”, but I think this second part is not the correct analysis:
“Jeremy Maclin could have a monster year. The Eagles could add some
stud rookie who turns out to be a dominant player. Maybe Darren Sproles
is an impact player. Maybe Zach Ertz has a breakout season and turns
into a huge weapon.
It is also possible that the Eagles will miss DeSean and the offense will struggle at times.”
These two events are not mutually exclusive. Jeremy Maclin, Darren Sproles, Zach Ertz all could have great years, and had we kept DeSean, he COULD (as apposed to would) have added even more to that. On the other hand, the offense could struggle this year, and even if we had kept DeSean it COULD have struggled. Answering the question of if we are better is more complicated than simply seeing are we a better offense this year than last year.
To me, there is no question we will be missing talent, and that has a clear negative affect on the offense. However, the calculation that the coaches are making is that DeSean’s character/cost/attitude/whatever it is they didn’t like/etc. hurts the team more than his talent helps the team. Determining whether they are right or not will be relatively impossible because we don’t have a way of truly comparing the two situations with or without Jackson (last year vs this year isn’t a clear comparison for example since Maclin is a clear addition to the team talent wise, and player will be growing more comfortable in CK’s system, etc.).
Tommy is just sticking to the tangible comparison, whereas comparing the 2014 Philadelphia O as it will be with the hypothetical 2014 Philly O that could have been with Jackson is a purely theoretical and complicated (how do we really use that roster space, how are we really going to use that cap space, how does his presence change the game plans, let alone locker room chemistry). Basically, it will be the best comparison available, as deeply flawed as it is.
Understood, but that comparison is so highly flawed that it becomes meaningless. If you are on the “we should have kept DeSean Jackson” camp any conclusion you make comparing last years offense to this years offense you can argue, “DeSean would have made the offense even better by spreading out the defense even more”. If you are on the “In Chip I Trust” camp, any conclusion you make you can argue, “DeSean would have made things worse by being a distraction or costing the team money they could use elsewhere”. I just find making conclusions from such flawed and ambiguous data seems silly to me.
We need to get someone to play the season on Madden with DJax so we will have a baseline.
Let’s hope DeSean is on the cover.
Paralysis by over analysis brother. In the words of Steve Winwood, “Just roll with it”.
ugh… the Eagles just extended Henery. $6m guaranteed.
April 1st…
Sounds like he hit the “jaccpot”!
If the Eagles now have to use a draft pick on a WR, then they are not using that pick on a position that was already a need (aka OLB or S). So in this scenario, the Eagles will not be a “better” team.
Will the offense be just as effective? I can see that.
Well, they don’t really HAVE to draft a WR. It sure would be nice if they did now though. I do think it makes a WR BPA pick at 22 more likely though. Still, there is nothing to say that a WR wouldn’t be BPA anyway. This is going to be one of the most interesting drafts in a while. Even more so than last season’s draft.
They were going to draft a WR anyway, with all the WR talent in this draft they’d be stooopid not to. The only difference is that now they’ll resign Maclin instead of letting him walk after 2014..
Did they still have interest in signing Ihedigbo after signing Jenkins and Ihedigbo? Dang, whoever this eagles nut character is is an idiot.
I assume he meant the guy from SEA, but I read that about 4 times. It is a shame he didn’t read it just once.
In case you didn’t notice, that eagles nut guy is also named Greg Richards. He’s giving me a bad rep!
… Or maybe you’re Greg Richards. The plot thickens. Dun dun dun!
Another good read Tommy, I was wondering if you would agree to this possibility I have been contemplating.
I doubt this is the sole reason for letting DeSean go but he was due to make somewhere around 10.75 mill and that is a huge chunk of change.
Do you think his salary was too much?
Considering todays NFL and the back shoulder throw, with relation to a WR’s size, do you think the Eagles are going for a much bigger #1 receiver than DJax small but fast type?
I think it’s possible that the Eagles wanna go big at WR.
Maybe 6’3-6’5 type to create mismatches?
At 22 I think they will select Mike Evans(if he falls) or even a guy like Martavis Bryant. Both are huge receivers with speed and may be what Chip is looking for to team up with Maclin and Coop.
I keep hearing people say that the Eagles are very interested in Cooks. Not sure where that has come from. They definitely seem to be taking every opportunity to get familiar with Evans. If he does happen to fall around the late teens you have to wonder if they would consider trading up for him.
Oregon played against OSU and Cooks. Chip knows how hard Cooks is to cover, his skill set, and approach to the game. I’m sure Cooks is on the board.
Who would you prefer cooks or ODB?
I prefer ODB. I think we will see more jamming at the line, and we need big, physical WR to counter this trend. Cooks is more of a finesse player but I like his intelligence and ability to get open. He may be a little small for Chip compared to others in the draft.
I have no doubt he is on their board. I was just wondering where people have found the articles/sources that say they are “very interested.”
OK, time to officially move on:
Photo: The Eagles are removing the giant DeSean Jackson
banner on side of Linc
http://the700level.com/football-eagles/photo-the-eagles-are-removing-the-giant-desean-jackson
I don’t know why people are so insisting on that being DeSean Jackson on the banner.
Look at this picture of DeSean from California, especially the tattoos on both his upper arms:
http://www.syerasite.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DeSean-Jackson-3.jpg
Now look at the pictures in this article, again look at the upper arms, now completely missing tattoos:
http://the700level.com/football-eagles/photo-the-eagles-are-removing-the-giant-desean-jackson/
Its obviously not him.
Here is my question though… why would it even matter? The Eagles just CUT DeSean. Despite his talent, the Eagles made it clear that they did not feel for whatever reason that they wanted DeSean representing the Eagles. If that’s the case, why would the keep a banner of him up either way?!
And to be clear, no, that is clearly not DeSean. In addition to the arms, the first digit is clearly not a 1. Based on the part of the number we see on the player’s back, it looks like 00.
Yeah I agree, it doesnt matter one bit. If it had been DeSean Jackson, wouldn’t it have been a natural reaction to take down a banner of a former player?
I just find it incredibly odd that people on twitter, reddit, BGN etc. remains so insistent that it was DJax, especially because it was so obvious to me that it wasn’t. I didn’t even have to look at it for a second to realize that it wasn’t.
It looks like Thrash.
Jeremy Maclin could have a monster year
Oh dear God, I hope NOT! Just imagine if Maclin’s going to have a career year just to find out that he will leave in free agency next off-season, as Chippah rather invests the money in a 4th TE that doesn’t dress up on gamedays.
Please not another la gran twitta bonanza. #Maccpocalypse
someone needs a hug….still bitter I guess…
Oh, goodness. Let’s all hope no one has a career year so they’re easier to sign in the off season.
#sarcasm is a good thing.
You still in Manhattan?
Yep. Working in midtown east and living in queens. Where u at?
Me too — sunnyside.
Cool, Astoria here. Maybe we can catch up and talk/watch Eagles one day?!
Sounds like a plan.
Harrisburg. Daughter lives/works in Manhatten. Stay away from her, you’re an Eagles fan so, by definition, unlucky.
Who else is going to go see that Kevin Costner movie just because they can’t wait an extra month for the draft?
Here. Although I am not a fan of Jennifer Garner.
I like her .. well, at least they way she looks. Can’t say I’ve seen her in anything lately, although I did enjoy that show Alias. I just love how Hollywood has to add a female lead to EVERYTHING. Seriously, do we need a woman in a movie about a draft war room?
The 2014 off-season will forever be known as the “maybe” era of Chip Kelly. Maybe we could maybe be good because maybe we could maybe improve since maybe there’s too many maybes about this team. Maybe.
I got it! Chip and Howie’s master plan is to wait till after the
Redskins give DeSean a boat load of money before they reveal all the
evidence that he’s a secret child molester, drug gang king pin that
beats grandmothers, or whatever else he did that made us dump him for
nothing. And, sit back and watch the Redskins crumble. It’s even
better than draft picks. Tricky Chip…
That’s very..wishful thinking.
Clearly Djax isn’t getting anywhere near $10m. Im tired of talking about this though – next topic. If he goes to the skins he’ll be what he always was a big play reciever. They have some vets on that team that may be able to hold him down. Their receiving corps is much like ours was, possession reciever in Garcon (maclin), Moss is basically Avant and Jordan Reed (ertz). It’ll be better considering they don’t have a first round pick.
All this talk about “In Chip we trust”… I’m actually going to buy it for now. As a native Philadelphian, blind faith doesn’t come naturally. What’s so fun about Chip is that we *could* be watching greatness before our eyes… but we just don’t know yet. Tom Landry’s A Football Life was on tv yesterday, and he always believed in his system (lost Roger Staubach and went to 3 consecutive NFC championships afterwards). His system had a nice run. Walsh’s system had a nice run. We never got to see how long Jimmy Johnson’s would have gone, but probably longer than just 2. Could Chip Kelly’s system be the next game changer?
I’m excited to see this play out. Given the year 1 success, I have to say we’re at least on track. Crossing fingers and saying my prayers. Go Eagles.