Assessing the Defense
Posted: October 8th, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 169 Comments »The Eagles gave up 468 yards on Sunday. That’s not good. But look inside the numbers. In the first 43 minutes of the game, the Eagles played good defense and limited the Rams to 7 points and 276 yards. In the final 2 minutes of the 3rd quarter and the entire 4th quarter the Eagles gave up 192 yards and 21 points.
Bill Davis cut back on the blitzing and played a more conventional style. He rushed 4 and had the DBs try to keep everything in front of them. The goal is to make the offense move down the field in short chunks and burn the clock. You hope a sack or holding penalty will put the offense in 3rd and long and that you’ll then be able to get them off the field. This if defensive football 101.
The problem is that the Eagles did a lousy job of playing that way. I’d love to blame one person or position, but this was a group issue. There were mistakes on each level of the defense and from a variety of players. I do think the absence of Mychal Kendricks really hurt the defense in that situation. The one thing you really want when playing like that is speed in the middle of the field. You need defenders who can fly to the ball.
I do think we also need to put some context on the situation. The Titans blew a 25-point lead on Sunday. Detroit and Chicago blew 14-point leads. Atlanta blew a 10-point lead. So did Dallas, but they recovered to win. Tampa blew an 11-point lead. We’ve seen this kind of stuff all year long. The Eagles have 3 big time comeback wins. Dallas trailed the Rams 21-0 a few weeks back and won that game. The Seahawks juggernaut defense couldn’t protect a late lead over Denver and had to go to overtime to win the game. This season has been all about comebacks.
Teams throw the ball better than ever. Getting behind isn’t the scary proposition that it used to be. It also seems like WR play is better than ever. Brian Quick made a really tough catch for the TD against Bradley Fletcher. The week before, the Niners had a handful of incredibly impressive catches. Did you see the grab that Dez Bryant made on Sunday? He made a spectacular sideline grab on 3rd/long. There is no way that catch should have been made.
Defensive backs can be in good if not great position and still get burned. Receivers are just doing insane things this year. You wonder if this is a result of the emphasis on illegal contact and defensive holding. We saw a ton of flags this summer. Players have adjusted since then so we aren’t seeing those penalties called over and over, but the lack of downfield contact might be a factor in why WRs are playing so well. They are running free down the field.
Bill Davis said he and the players went over the 4th quarter mistakes very carefully. They covered every detail. That will help with some of the mistakes, but will that make a substantial difference?
The Eagles will have another big lead at some point. It will be interesting to watch a couple of things. Do the Eagles execute better and play smarter? Also, does Davis use the same style or does he decide to keep blitzing and take his chances? I also hope Kendricks is back on the field for the next big lead.
* * * * *
Here is Bill Davis’ PC from Tuesday. Always great to listen to him.
He staunchly defends the CBs, which will upset some folks. I don’t think Davis is being delusional. He explains things in a logical way. And one of his key points is something I touched on above…the Eagles played good defense for most of the game. That final 17 minutes was a disaster and no one denies that. The point is to fix the 17 minutes and not the overall game.
This ties in to something Chip Kelly talked about. Kelly got defensive when discussing the CB situation because the pass defense was a huge problem late in the game…when the Eagles were almost exclusively in Nickel and Dime. You can’t put Boykin at LCB if he’s already on the field in the slot.
The Eagles need better CB play. There is no question about that. But let’s be fair in assessing the CBs. Bradley Fletcher was awful vs the Skins, but played better the next 2 weeks. Cary Williams was awful awful in the season opener. He’s been up and down since then. Theses guys have their good moments. They do make some plays. They were close to receivers on most of the catches on Sunday. They just couldn’t break up those passes. As Chip Kelly pointed out on Monday, the corners need to make those plays. Getting into position is only half the battle. You have to play the ball or the receiver at the moment of the catch. That’s when you can knock the ball away or get the hands/arms of the receiver and prevent him from making the grab. Williams and Fletcher need to start doing a better job of that if they want to have a chance to start anywhere in 2015.
* * * * *
The Eagles are 28th in yards allowed. They are 25th in points allowed.
There was a Twitter argument about whether or not the Eagles had the worst defense in the league. That led to this response.
Eagles allowing 15th most yards per play and 15 most points per play. Rank 16th overall in defense DVOA. Worst defense in the league IMO.
— Brandon Lee Gowton (@BrandonGowton) October 8, 2014
Just a tad bit of sarcasm there at the end.
I don’t see how anyone can think there is a worse defense than the Jaguars this season. They have been just dreadful.
_
Nail on the head. This is not your father’s NFL. The emphasis is more and more on generating turnovers to stop teams rather than punts. This leads to large swings in a game. High variance, high scoring, exciting offense. This is the kind of D Chip wanted, and it seems to be working, more or less.
“15th most yards per play and 15 most points per play” and they are also scoring or contributing greatly to points generated by the offense and special teams.
The punt block TD against the 49ers goes down as a great special teams play but who forced them to punt from their own end zone?
With our offense struggling, who is forcing fumbles and setting up good position for the offense to finish the job?
Getting burned by Austin Davis is troubling but there’s something to be said for how this defense is actually keeping us in these games…
Bingo. There really are only two ways to play defense; stop their offense or steal the ball … but the NFL is making sure offenses have it easier. So it’s all about turnovers now. Said it last year; that team got bashed for giving up yards, but it wasn’t really even trying to stop the other team because it knew it couldn’t … so it was selling out for turnovers instead. It worked too, we drastically turned around our turnover ratio & had similar stats in points-per-game-against compared to yards given up.
That CAN be a sustainable strategy IF you have an offense as potent as last year’s offense; its a strategy that says, “I can score on as many drives as you can even if I let you score, but to win the game I’ll be stealing some of your drives”. The problem has been the turnovers on offense.
I can’t remember the number of times I got frustrated with 60 second
3-and-outs last season, but those clearly weren’t a problem for that
offense either. While the offense is still trying to find its groove its not bad by any means, it’s mainly that we’re giving away more drives than we are stealing. There have just been way too many fumbles for a playoff NFL team (and that’s not a jab at Foles for last week, it has been a season long issue).
I was watching the game with my brothers and was like, “they’re taking their foot off the gas” on defense. I’m a big fan of sticking with what got you there. The Rams struggled against the pressure all game. Why stop bringing it? You are up by 21 points. If you get beat deep once or twice, then adjust. I would say you have a good 7 point cushion to just keep doing what you’ve been doing. They tried keeping everything in front of them and got gashed for big plays anyway.
That’s why there is that old adage, the prevent defense prevents you from winning. And I don’t know that they were necessarily in straight up prevent but philosophy was the same. Once you start giving an offense short throws, they gain confidence and timing. Then before you know it, they’re moving the ball and then the big plays come. Not to mention, we can’t get pressure with just our front 4 and anytime you give a QB time in this league he’ll pick you apart.
those 4 got 4+ sacks the last 2 games each….seems like pressure to me.
Great as always…you talk of the lack of downfield contact as to a possible reason for the up-swing in the WR production. Probably true, however the rules have always been for no contact downfield, and due to the blatant mugging by Seattle`s DB`s last year, the rules are finally being enforced, like they were meant to be. Rules are written for that purpose. Should have been done long ago.
I disagree. There are many rules that may be written a certain way, but enforcement and practical application are another thing. Players and coaches know what a real hands to the face penalty is. They know what the difference between hand fighting and pass interference are. By tightening up the rules, the league is artificially create more offense. Because the casual fan enjoys offense, and the only room left for the league to grow domestically is with casual fans.
D3FB:
Your insights are relentlessly sharp.
We’re very fortunate to have you commenting here.
I’m convinced that the NFL has decided the path to continued growth is through Fantasy Football as that brings in more casual fans also. Since FF is driven primarily by offensive #’s they want more scoring to make it more exciting for the pretend GM’s.
so then why have them in the first place? no contact
(hit,grabbing on,leaning on) means no contact.
give you a for instance.
lighter db runs with Calvin Jonhson. qb passes ball hands above CJ, but lighter(shorter db) uses johnson to elevate himself enough to bat the, incomplete pass. Because the db is lighter-and not as strong- his use of CJ to elevate himself had no visible affect on CJ.How is that legal? the db used the illegal contact to enable himself to force the incomplete pass.
Rules are rules….if left to the interretation of the refs and will be called differently, even in the same game. not good for anyone.
Because the game needs to leave refs room for judgement call. There would be holding on almost every run play, if the refs had to call it by the letter of the law. Also your example is flawed because if the DB is facing the ball, he has equal right to attempt to make a play. The new enforcement is ridiculous. Think back to the preseason when either Thornton or Smith was called for a hands to the face because his hand momentarily slid up to the side of the offensive linemans helmet and grazed off. That’s ridiculous, it’s not hands to the face. I’ve seen at least a dozen illegal contacts this year where the WR runs into a DB to initiate the contact. How is a DB supposed to defend against that. The new enforcement is blatantly an artificial way for the NFL to drive up scoring. It has nothing to do with the quality of the product on the field, or player safety.
Oh, and I agree that the DBs were in position on a lot of those plays. They just weren’t getting their heads around and their hands up. I couldn’t believe some of those passes were getting in there for completions.
If they turn their heads, how many big plays does it negate on Sunday? Like 3?
Yep
“hope” is defined as football 101? Anyway — if your defense is playing great for 43 minutes — why change? It’s not like your taking a rb or QB out of a blowout to save them from injury/reps. Chip is about numbers and statistics. Wouldn’t numbers and statistics of not “letting your foot off the petal” be a more logical call? Playing prevent, as proven over the years, is not the greatest of ideas. I get it, prevent defense is suppose to stop the home run. Weren’t the Eagles already stopping the home run? Couldn’t one argue that if the Eagles stay in their original attack move, Rams would never have clawed their way back in?
……
Another angle is — not only did the defense get abused – it was done vs. a “who” at qb. I’d expect better from the veterans on defense. I think I can guarantee, if the Eagles are lucky enough to be up by 3 td’s near the end of the 3rd quarter vs. the Giants, they do not go prevent.
They did that last year against Washington on both sides of the ball starting in the 2nd half. I hope they never go prevent against the Giants and just pound them all game. Stick it to this team.
Amen!!! I’m trying to think back at any point in history has anyone said “WTF — why didn’t we go prevent up so many points”? I wonder if there are statistics somewhere. Teams up by so many points vs. prevent and outcome compared to teams up by so many points not going prevent.
There wouldn’t be stats for that, because no defensive coordinator in his right mind is going to be blitzing in the fourth quarter with a three or four score lead. You can continue to bitch and moan about the defensive strategy but to act like what Davis was calling was anything other than responsible and the conventional football norm, you’re full of it.
Only Buddy Ryan did stuff like that.
He could afford to back in ’84-’85 with the group he had.
And the lack of the kind of sophisticated offensive blitz-pick up schemes we see now.
It sure was fun.
No one liked running up the score more than Buddy. Even more than his nemesis Jimmy Johnson.
Belicheat?
What seems to get lost in all of this is that it actually worked. Sure the game got close, but the Eagles won. If the Eagles had stayed aggressive on defense, who knows what would have happened.
ehhh we were 2 drops from losing.
And we were one slide from it not even being close.
DING! DING!mDING! You sir won the internet today!
…
Billy and Chip accomplished what they wanted…they don’t even think about trying to preserve the 30 point win…
.l
You give up completions to your opponent in exchange for time off the clock… And our strategy worked..
…
I think one of the things that gets lost here is the personnel of the offense. When an offense is down by 3 scores they don’t play their normal game. They have to abandon the run. Therefore you see alot more 3 and 4 WR sets. So what is the defense suppose to do? Stay in a base 3-4 with Jenkins and Allen in man coverage and no safety help or cover WRs with LBs? They had to go Nickel or Dime. And what coverage does every fan on here say is best for our DBs? Press-man cover 2. So you have 4 CBs in man coverage with 2 safeties deep. Call it prevent if you want but to me it looks like a dime package (dictated by the offensive personnel) with press-man cover 2 (best coverage for our DBs). Right call, poor execution.
Perfectly said… This debate seriously shows how ignorant people are.. To blame Billy Davis is a serious lack of football acumen
I’m okay against the Rams, but against an opponent where there’s no respect – pound the crap out of them (Giants, Cowboys, Seahawks).
If you don’t take your foot off the petal, the flower will die! ;~) The young Rams QB has already received some praise for his play, from other sources, so let’s give him some credit.
Yes, indeed. The pass plays given up by Williams and Fletcher annoyed me as much as the next guy, but…they were in position to make the play. That beats the heck out of the 2012 disaster where players were simply blowing assignments and allowing receives to run free all over the field.
they did when they were running through our zone coverage.
“I don’t see how anyone can think there is a worse defense than the Jaguars this season. They have been just dreadful.”
I get your point, but I’d like to set the bar just a tad higher than that.
Yeah what a straw man. This team is something like like 13-3 in the last 16 games. We should be in contender territory.
I don’t think it’s a straw man – it’s addressing an assertion on its own terms. People were asserting that the Eagles had the worst defense in the league. Pretty clearly, those people are clueless, as the Jags are far and away the worst, and there are several other defenses that are at least arguably significantly worse the Eagles’ defense so far.
I don’t think Tommy was arguing the opposite – that the Eagles’ D has been good, or even “good enough.” Just that there really is no reasonable way you can argue that they are the worst.
i think worst is sarcastic. worst among contending teams.
Cowboys, Saints, Falcons, Giants, Bears, Panthers, Colts, Cardinals, Ravens, Chiefs are all teams that have a playoff caliber roster. All are giving up more YPP than the Eagles defense. So even worst among contending teams is a fallacy.
Surprised to see Cards, Giants, Ravens on there.
At the end of the third quarter, the opponent was no longer the Rams but rather the clock. Ideally it runs done with few stops, limiting the number of opponent’s possessions. So you run the ball on offense and on defense make the opponent use lots of “clock” to score. It works if you can effectively run the ball and then force the opponent into limited gains per play. It worked against the Rams, sort of. A more effective running game, a less predictable prevent defense, and better defensive execution would have helped. Lots of ‘owners” of the fourth quarter play.
this team has never been successful at shutting down. might as well just go for 60 minutes but when offense isn’t scoring that might facilitate a move to defense.
Green Bay and Tampa bay games we killed the clock well.. Need to work towards that level of execution… Probably going to need our starting line to accomplish that
Switching to the other side of the ball, there’s an interesting article on the Eagles’ offensive issues so far this year on nfl.com by Bucky Brooks.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000407369/article/philadelphia-eagles-offense-whats-curbing-chip-kellys-attack
Basically says it’s a combination of Foles, O-Line and missing Desean. Nothing new, but I think it’s pretty well put together by a guy who played in the league and then worked as a scout after that.
Read this one earlier. I disagreed with a few of his points, one of them being missing DeSean Jackson. Mentioning what Jackson bought to the table a year ago doesn’t really help in trying to dissect the issues on offense, yes the offense is missing the vertical speed threat, but there are many other issues. Brooks didn’t even mention Maclin and his great start to the year, he only emphasized the injury he sustained a year ago.
I also couldn’t agree with Foles slow feet affecting the offense. It’s not his mobility, it’s the poor execution and lack of running game that has our O on its heels.
He did break down the offensive line issues. We need to get better up front and everything will fix itself.
Kind of an interesting point about Maclin’s injury, though. He still might not be at 100%, which bodes well for the rest of his season.
deep game has to work to relieve some of the pressure on the running game, screens and crossing routes.
Absolutely. Calling more play-action will also serve us well.
I thought the part about how DC’s had time to study the offense with Foles running the show and what adjustments were being made vs last year was something I hadn’t seen yet.
The Desean thing to me is one where it’s not an either/or. I don’t think there isn’t any question that having him on the field would add an element that the opposing D would have to pay attention to. I don’t think his absence is the primary reason for the struggles however.
In any case, just thought it was an interesting read from a national perspective.
I do agree that DC’s have adjusted to Foles quite well in the first 5 weeks, but I am skeptical on whether it’s the defensive adjustments made this offseason, or the offenses slow start due to offensive line injuries. Im going with the latter.
It’s definitely a good read for sure.
Does everyone remember the McNabb radio interview from August? He was actually well reasoned in his analysis and conclusions, but everybody in Philly slammed him. Turns out it was actually very prescient with regard to defenses game planning for Foles, getting him off his spot, etc.
This continued emphasis on missing DeSean is just nuts. To whatever degree the offense is missing a vertical threat, it’s not because of the WRs – Maclin has been open deep in every game I think – it’s that defenses aren’t respecting it because Foles can’t hit it.
And speaking of Foles, “slow feet” doesn’t just mean necessarily that he’s a slow runner; if he’s slow to get his feet set that could be throwing off his mechanics (which would affect his deep ball especially since you need more time to throw that). This is something that Foles and the coaching staff can (and must) work on but…
…it all comes back to the O-line.
How on earth does he comes to the conclusion we miss Desean when Maclin is posting better numbers than him (Jackson 2013 versus Maclin 2014). Hell the whole passing offense is actually better this year than last (Jordan Matthews been upgrade over Avant and Ertz been really fucking good)
First, I’m not a Desean apologist, and I’m fine that we cut him.
BUT
The point they’re making isn’t even about passing yards, it’s actually about the rushing yards. The argument is that having DJAX creates a more spread out field where you can run better.
Again, not saying that’s reality, just what they’re trying to say, and saying that Maclin has better stats so far than DJAX last year is unrelated to the point they’re making.
Problem is, that isnt true, even with Jackson we still faced 7-8 boxes
Yeah, I’m not sure where that myth got started. People were saying all last year how they were stacking the box to stop the run. (Remember all the “the run game doesn’t work with Foles!!!!1” complaints.)
This year, the 49ers had a 6-man front, and we still couldn’t run.
Want to upvote this more than once.
Lol your football ignorance has no limits today huh?
…
Tobin was just supposed to dominate Justin Smith in his first game ever? Lol
…
You wonder why lineman who just started playing next to each other 3 days prior couldn’t open up running lanes big enough against the stout veteran Niners DL of McDonald, Ian Williams and Justin smith?
..
Smh
Yea I agree, I’ve seen those all-22 breakdowns.
Might not be 100% true your statement. I remember a very good post by Derek on Igglesblog how much attention DeSean draws from opposing defenses. Maybe I find some time to look it up..
I looked at Igglesblog and couldnt find any posts of that from last season, but I remember a picture from the Saints game he posted (cant find it now), where Jackson had man coverage, slot WR to Jacksons side had a CB, safety over the top of them and Cooper having single coverage with rest near the Box (that 4 on 3 WRs and 7 near the box)
Im not arguing I wouldnt want Jackson (I would take Jackson over Cooper 10 times out of 10, Cooper is much better as 4th WR who can be used as RZ specialist), but Jackson didnt force anybody deep like the combination of Maclin+Jackson did in 2011 (Everybody remember Rob Ryan playing both safeties 30-40 yards deep?, that was fun)
Well, at least we are getting close now. 🙂 I would love to have a WR trio like Mac – Desean – Matthews.. Now we are stuck with Coop whom we can financially afford to cut not before 2016.
Here’s hoping that he will step up his game for the remainder of the season. And that our O Line gets well soon!
We can cut Cooper next year and only loose 1.6 mill more than if we keep him. If Huff steps up during the stretch or Cooper keeps underperforming, we might let him go
So DiccSean got his highlight catch, spread the field, blah blah on Monday night. Did his team win?
According to some readers here Bucky B. Must be ‘one of the dumbest’ analysts ever then…
It’s the classic cases of being up by 21 points so players relax. Just like in NBA when teams are down by 20, doesn’t mean they will lose for sure.
just to make sure we’re comparing apples to apples … the dallas game — They were down 21-0, but only 21-10 at half time. I’m not sure if the Rams went into prevent defense in the 2nd quarter. Titans were up 18 at the start of the 3rd quarter — were they playing prevent to start the second half? Denver/Seattle — Denver down by 14 — if you’re playing prevent, up only 2 scores vs. Manning — shame on you. Fully understand the point your making but I’m not sure the are quite the same thing the Eagles just went through….
The defense went to cover 3 / zone after building up the lead 34-7. Davis mentioned wanting to keep plays in front and letting the clock run after marginal gains. What ate us up in the 4th was Austin Davis buying more time to draw up the safety from their zones.. Backfired twice.
Ideally you would want to play zone while protecting a big lead.. All it takes is a couple of cover 3 break downs to let the oppisition catch up. It happened a good number of times last season as well.
why scrambling abs are so effective sometimes — takes defense to of responsibilities.
This “letting teams get back into the game” has been happening over and over. If it’s not the players, then it’s the defensive coordinator. Why do I get the sense that Davis won’t be making any changes to the way he calls a game if/when this situation comes up again?
I really wish Kelly gave a flip about defense. It sure would be handy during these times the offense is ineffective.
How do you know it’s not the players? The starting 11 is basically the same as last year with the exception of Jenkins for Chung.
A good deal of the defense is filled with guys from 2012.
No?
Allen, Boykin, Kendricks, Ryans, Cox, Thorton, Cole, Graham, and Curry were all part of that 2012 team.
Because they did a good job of shutting the Rams down until the 3rd quarter. The players didn’t change at that point, the scheme did.
So did the Ram’s gameplan and personell packages.
Kelly cares, I just let his DC coach the defense.
Its Kelly who demanded a 3-4 2 gap
Its Kelly who wants 7 feet long DL (if possible),
Its Kelly who wants 6’0+ CBs on the outside.
Its Kelly who wants his OLBs to mirror.
No shit billy ismt going to make changes…he called the game the way every DC in the NFL would when his team is up 30-7 in the 4th… Just because they came too close to make you nervous, doesnt mean billy did anything wrong,.. No one blitzes up 30 in the 4th…
…
What billy called, is the defensive equivalent of running the ball to kill the clock when you have a lead…
…
Billy did NOTHING wrong… Shows serious ignorance to suggest that bIlly is to blame for winning by less than you would have liked to win by
No, but I bet he won’t go into prevent D so early vs. the Giants if the Eagles are lucky enough to be up by so much.
Re: Defense, Talent, Performance
Back in his days as the Chicago Bears’ D-coordinator, Buddy Ryan had a 3-year run — from 1979-1981 — when his defenses went from middling to poor (10th, 19th, 16th).
Yet Buddy ran the principal basic scheme in ’79, ’80, and ’81 as he ran in ’85.
So what changed? The talent.
In 1979, the Bears drafted HOF DE/DT/NT Dan Hampton.
In 1980, the Bears drafted Pro Bowl OLB Otis Wilson and OLB Al Harris.
In 1981, the Bears drafted HOF MLB Mike Singletary and S Todd Bell.
In 1983, the Bears drafted CB Mike Richardson, the late Dave Duerson at S, and HOF DE Richard Dent.
So by 1984, when the Bears draft Pro Bowl OLB Wilbur Marshall, the final piece was put in place for what became the most entertainingly dominant defense in NFL history.
_______________
Yes, the game of pro football’s changed since Buddy’s 46 Defense terrorized the NFL.
But what’s not changed — I think — is relationship between having elite talent on defense and the consistent performance of that defense.
This Eagles’ defense is still a work in progress in terms of talent.
How many players did Kelly and Davis inherit who — if starting from scratch — they would want on the field?
Cox, Kendricks for sure. Thornton? Ryans? Very likely. That’s 4 of 11.
Anyone else?
It’s going to take a few more drafts for the Eagles’ defense to be a Top 10 group. And in the free-agency era, that means Roseman and Kelly can’t miss.
Free agents are an option. But elite players don’t hit the market — particularly at CB.
_______________
I’m not writing anything that hasn’t been written here before by others, including the host.
Davis’s scheme may the best in the NFL. Won’t matter ’til the Eagles have more talent on defense.
Not that the Eagles can’t win in a shoot-out against other teams.
The only point I’m making is that expecting the Eagles to be a shut-down defense — even against a team like the Rams — may be on the unrealistic side of the dial.
NOTE: My points are all relative to (i) free agency keeps teams from collecting and keeping ALL their best players, and (ii) the rules so heavily favor offenses that the days of averaging 10 pts per game on defense are long gone.
This is a fair assessment and well put.
Ha, so talent matters?
Professore VIKING !!!!
thanks a.c.
it’s funny how many folks point to Davis’ pretty dismal statistical record as D.C., yet usually acknowledge the scheme he installs pays dividends after his exit (i.e. Arizona).
NFL and NBA may be the worst when it comes to overbearing owners and/or GMs bowing to media/fan/player/whatever pressure and terminating coaches just as a foundation is laid. Especially when certain talent evaluators (ahem Jerrah ahem) keep handing their coaches 47-card decks.
Of course talent matters. We’ve know that all too well, having been burned by talent missing a few screws or unable to assimilate (DRC, Nnamdi, Clemons, S. Andrews, T.O., Earl Thomas [i kid, i kid]).
Want to know why SEA is so successful? or the STL Cardinals in MLB? Or the S.A. Spurs? because developing a certain organizational Tao is critical to collective buy-in and success.
I’m constantly thankful for what Chip is building. Clearly, whether Davis sticks or not, the 2gap 34 foundation has been laid for all future defenses. And the Tao has most certainly been ingrained.
Doesn’t matter 4-1
“But what about that 4Q defense?”
Doesn’t matter 4-1
“But that stalling offense tho…”
Doesn’t matter 4-1
“But your wins have been ugly”
Still counts!
You are what your record says you are. Why do people only believe that when the record is bad?
Yeah . . .
I remember the Eagles losing in 2011 to the Bills.
Eagles dropped to 1-4.
Bills went to 4-1.
That’s a good point. The Bills finished 6-10 that year.
I bet their blogs were filled with people trying to raise concerns, getting yelled at by others insisting all you needed to look at was the 4-1 record.
It’s fine to be aware that it’s a long season. I just hope that people making this point keep it in mind ON EVERY JUDGMENT, as opposed to reaching firm conclusions on some subjects and proclaiming it’s too early on others according to no logic other than their personal biases.
Good teams are supposed to win games they should. Cause at the end of the season the record is what counts and no one will care if the wins are ugly or not. So win`m while you can, add up those wins and get better position in the playoffs, maybe even a bye.
Exactly, and I’m not worried that they haven’t peaked yet. We’re missing 3 starters, possibly 4. Once they come back, we get some continuity and then get it all together in time for the playoffs.
this goes both ways because none of us are psychic.
but we’re all fanatics
You are starting to reach “Token” status… That’s not a compliment..
You are the worst poster in the history of the internet. Stop posting.
Not really. Go home you’re drunk.
The intelligent fan can distinguish between being 4-1 after beating quality opponents and 4-1 after barely beating the Rams, Jaguars, and Redskins.
If the other fans want to cover their ears and scream “LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU, 4 AND 1!!” that’s fine. As long as they don’t get mad at those choosing NOT to bury their heads in the sand.
No argument about being aware that the 4-1 is not against a murderer’s row. But it IS against NFL opponents. Very few teams ever go 0-16 or 16-0. And as bad as the Redskins are, I think they are a definite step up from the Rams and Jaguars of the league this year, plus they played that game like it was their Super Bowl. They were up for that game and played an extremely physical, well prepared divisional rival game. I’m not willing to so lightly discard that win.
that was best game of the season by far, for both teams.
Barely beating is complete CRAP!…
Why are you talking to me?
I’m not, I’m berating you
they need to improve in almost every phase of the game, but that doesn’t take away from how awesome it is to be at 4-1.
They are improving,.. They have been improving for a few weeks now…they NEED to CONTINUE to improve.. Which is the goal of every team in hopes that they will peak at the right time and go into the playoffs with momentum playing their best ball..
…
That’s why it’s ridiculous to not appreciate a 4-1 start no matter what it looks like…
..
If you are winning in September when everyone is still working out their issues, and you are seeing weekly improvement, then you are on the right path…and that’s all you can really ask for especially when you trying to maintain until you get 3 of your best players back
Broncos had to come back against the Jags last year.The Seahawks barely beat the Texans, Titans and Bucs last year…
hear, hear.
Yup this isn’t college wins are much harder to come by in the NFL. Chip Kelly said it last year, there’s kind of a discrepancy in college but in the NFL you can possibly lose any Sunday just as much as you could win. Just look around at losing teams who don’t play good in any facet of their game and thank god we’re not them.
I just had wiiiins! And it felt so good, if yo team’s 4-1 then you qualified to sing with me:
I just had wiiiiins! And I’ll never go back (no no no) to the not havin’ wins ways of the past.
No way the Eagles are the worst defense in the NFL. I wouldn’t even classify them as one of the terrible one. They reside firmly in the bottom 1/3 of the “meh” variety of defensive teams!
the giants game could be shoot out of sorts since eli is playing well and our d is, well, our d….
if we don’t see more sproles this week i will be really bummed.
this is the game to show we can win for real.
be nice to see what odb does
Yes prevent style sucks… But you don’t blitz when you are up 34-7…
..
Like Billy said, you hope that allowing WRs to catch the ball in front of you helps kill the clock..it’s basically the defensive version of running the ball trying to kill the clock to protect a lead.. You want the offense to complete passes in front of you, keep the clock going…
…
Blitzing leaves you open to give up a quick TD which is the worst thing that could possibly happen when you are trying to hold on to the lead..
…
Billy’s strategy was sound.. Most defensive coordinators do the same thing up by 30 in the 4th…and it worked.. Only reason we are talking about this is because we let them get too close for comfort..
.. Like Tom and Billy pointed out, it’s not at all one or two players faults….
We see a CB give up a completion but we don’t pay attention to the DL who lost contain allowing the QB to run around long enough for Nate to lose his man on a busted play and get beat for a TD… We see the CB get beat, but we don’t realize the safety wasn’t where he was supposed to be…and some plays we are seeing corners do everything right, play their man perfectly, but a WR goes up and makes a spectacular play…
…
With that said, obviously our secondary needs to play better, however, I see some encouraging signs… We aren’t seeing corners get burnt on double moves or get left in the dust like the first week against the Jags.. ATleast half of the completions we give up, our corners do everything right but don’t turn their head in time at the last minute….we would have a major problem if our guys are just getting burnt…but they are usually in positive when they get beat..that’s encouraging because it can improve over the course of the season…it’s not a limitation that we can only solve by changing personel after the season… everyone shits on the corners, but it’s like no one even cares to acknowledge how well our corners tightened up and played down the stretch last season… there is room for improvement, we aren’t seeing the best these players are capable of… These are veterans who peaked at the right time last year, and I see nothing to suggest they can’t do that again this year
yes but given the weakness of the secondary why leave it in their hands, especially after they gave up the first 2 easy tds. my thing is the blitzing had led to 3 turnovers and no big plays why not just do that — let the front 7 eat. we probably pop a couple more sacks and some turnovers.
You are arguining against something that every single DC has been doing for the longest…. You don’t blitz! You prefer letting the team complete a pass in front of you rather than try to breakup the pass get caught out of position and give up the big play… give up a short completion, don’t let them get out of bounds, and keep letting the clock run…
…
It’s literally the defensive version of the running the ball to kill a clock and protect a lead…. Ultimately, Billy Davis and chip kelly don’t give two shits about winning 34-7 or winning 34-27… I’m their mind, they did nothing wrong sunday, so I can assure you that next time we are in a similar position, billy will call it exactky the same way…and he isn’t wrong.. You might disagree with him, but I doubt you can find many defensive coordinators that disagre with this strategy…
…
Nothing happened. I don’t even know why we even talking about it? Instead of winning by 30, we won by 6… What’s the problem?
so you’re saying you should do something because that’s the way it’s always been done? doesn’t sound like something i’d hear on a ck coached team.
Lol no we should do it because it worked, and it accomplished what we wanted to accomplish…
…
lol arguining against it is like sAyng, “so we shouldnt run the ball when we are up 30 because that’s what everyone has always done”?….sometmes, the wheel doesn’t need reinventing….
…
Chip doesn’t go against conventional wisdom just to go against it…sometime he has a better way, sometime the way everyone has been doing it is still the best way to do it
…..
Let’s reivent the wheel not run the ball to kill time when we are up 30, just to go against conventional wisdom…sounds brilliant
we don’t always run the ball sometimes we just keep scoring points. but you have to know your team. why put the game in the cbs hands when you don’t have great cbs. I understand what you’re saying.
Why put the game in the hands of your corners? Well let’s see, the offense probably puts a bunch of WRs on the field which means corners are going to have to defend them… Not allowing a big play for a quick score becomes the most important thing in that situation,.and if the most important thing is tp not give up a big play, blitzing isn’t worth the risk… You can’t just dail up a blitz and it will automatically work every time… If you blitz and they have the right call, you are fucked…yet if they end up scoring a TD and it cost them 5 minutes worth of play clock…not a bad trade
…
If not giving up the quick score is the most important thing…why would you blitz?
true – no meco and no kendericks you’re probably limited on what you can do out of base anyway and if safeties blow coverage you’ll look bad anyway. maybe you’re right.
It worked? Meaning it worked in the sense that we didn’t allow the biggest comeback in NFL history to happen, right? There’s a reason why former players say the only thing the preevent defense does is prevent you from winning. The only time it’s ever appropriate to go to prevent it’s when you’re playing the numbers game. What I mean is that you know how many possessions the other team needs in order to come back and tie or win the game. When you reasonably believe that you can allow them to score on all but one of thos possessions it makes sense to go to prevent.
Until someone shows me some data with good analysis that prevent is effective relative to something else the “that’s the way people do it” argument doesn’t work for me… That’s how you halt progress and keep people ignorant
Lol so I guess you need to see data to show you that running the ball to kill the clock to preserve a lead actually works too?
difference being, that data is clear and easy to show. prevent, not so much.
That’s might point, right there. Chip IS reinventing the wheel. As he has said, he’s not running anything different than what’s been run. He’s just tweaking a part here and there. Where is that mentality on the defense? Nate Allen couldn’t keep a toddler in front of him.
You want to know the grand mystery of what’s wrong with the offense?
…
Do people realize that right now (fingers crossed)’we are on pace to start the same 5 offensive lineman two weeks in a row for the first time this season?
..
Nothing is a bigger problem than that FACT! As we gain continuity, we will see an offense improve.. Guys continue to go down with injuries, then we will continue to have these problems…
I rant and rave about not being able to stomach any eagles coverage or discussion outside of this site, and I rip our pathetic media for making our FANBASE stupid… Outside of IgglesBlitz land, you know what the main discussion about the Eagles is today? Whether the Eagles are going to cut shady McCoy at the end of the season….Sal Pal started this crap after 3 weeks ago he proclaimed we were Goimg to the Super Bowl… And I’m supposed to respect the local media and this fanbase?
…
Without this community, I don’t know how I could stomach being an Eagles fan. Thank you to all of you, for the most part being the top 3% of Eagles fans who actually have a clue…
I don’t understand that conversation. I’ve been racking my brain trying to think if it has any slimmer of legitimacy, and I can’t find any. The team is struggling, but you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
I think it’s silly. But you gotta ask yourself — is McCoy worth $10m or $12 next year? Is there a way to better allocate those resources? Is he the type of back you need in the scheme – or do you want a one cut-sproles type for $3m.
seems to make as much sense as the Pats cutting Brady
Great analogy!
Shaugnessy (sp?) actually wrote an article suggesting they trade him, but he’s just a sh#t stirrer.
Lol idiot still thinks you can trade players in the NFL.. When will the fool learn that you trade CONTRACTS in the NFL, not players
To be fair Johnson created a dynasty by trading Herschel walker coming off a huge season… Different era but if you could procure an RG3 type trade for McCoy knowing that running backs are a dime a dozen especially in this system actually doesn’t sound too crazy
Rg3 was a rookie contract. No one trades away a ton of pics for the right to pay a 27yr old RB 10million next year…
…
The simple media isn’t even clever. Monday Tuesday they wasted our time fixating on who’s decision was it to play Sproles on 3rd down instead of shady, in a play that actually worked I might add… And Wednesday that bullshit two day discussion about who’s decision it was to bench shady for a play that worked graduate to the Eagles cutting shady at the ends fa the year… Meedia is pathetic.. They aren’t even clever with their bullshit…and the dumb fanbase eats it up. It’s wednesday night and we haven’t even started to talk Eagoes vs, Giant,.. We are still dealing with drama from the Rams game…
…
TELL me chip kelly doesn’t look exactly like “jUdge Phalen” from season 1 of the “wire” lol…
…
Yes I started watching season 1 of the wire again, for like the 10th time
no side by side pic?
Dude, I don’t even know how to paste !inks using IPhones and Ipads… I suck with Apple..
…
He isn’t a famous actor, but when you see his face you will recognize him
touche’.. i looked him up, you aren’t wrong. great show.. season 2 is the worst and its still a great season of TV.
Yeah I would def say season two is the worst, but still not bad
I actually still haven’t gotten around to watching it.
You are one Lucky man… I would give ANYTHING to have 5 new seasons Of the wire that I have never seen before
Brad Smith and Polk likely out for the game.
If Meco doesn’t play, are we really, really screwed or just really screwed? So Acho and Matthews would be our ILB’s?
super really screwed. chalk up a loss without our linebackers
5-1 daddy… It’s coming…
Chip’ll spot Coughlin 21 points, just to make the second half interesting
I expect Meco to play but not kendrick…..
…
Giants Aren’t really a team that would make us pay for not having Meco or Kendricks.. They have down hill running power backs, and I’m actually still in shock over the fact That Acho and Mathews are playing the run well…. Giants runningbacks ARENT pass catchers that can expose Casey…they have an OK TE, but our defense is one of the best at defending TEs this year.mwhich is to be expected when you have Malcolm and Barwin…
….
Obviously not having Meco or Kendrick is always a big loss… But the Giamts ARENT one of the more equipped teams to take advantage of Meco and Mykal not playing…. Obviously it still hurts..
“Giamts ARENT one of the more equipped teams to take advantage of Meco and Mykal not playing”. What makes you say that?
Big down hill power running backs… I don’t mind Casey playing against power run games after what I saw these past two weeks on film…
…
Where Casey is a liability is asking him to cover anyone man…….Giants big power RBs ARENT the best pass catching weapons to worry about…
….
If we were playing against a RB like Giovanni Bernard or Jamaal Charles, having Casey Matnews on the field is my nightmare…. But I don’t worry about him anywhere as much against big down hill RBs..
I’m worried about ODB in the backfield or donnell in the middle. but i see your point.
ILB typically only have to worry about TEs if they are in Zone coverage and he comes in their zone… When we are in man, you will almost always see Jenkins or Barwin on the Tight End..
.,.
For example: you never see Meco or Mykal on Jimmy Graham in the playoffs…
…
When we know the Othet team is throwing im sure we play alpt of nickel and Dime so we don’t have to play many Lbs
how is polk injured again? it’s like 102yd sprint and that’s it.
same hamstring issue
If Polk is going to stay on this roster for another couple of years, I hope to see Chip add a two back portion of our playbook, where Polk can occasionally be a led blocker,for Shady… We are going to have to add new sections to the playbook every year…..
…
And I figure that if we don’t have Polk, we are still going to have Burton who can lineup in the backfield and be a lead blocker….just wrinkles that teams have never seen us put on film…
…
Figure no one has seen shady run with a lead blocker since chip arrived… If it’s 4th and short this week and we line up in two back pistol or something with Polk, James Casey or Burton lead blocking for Sproles or,shady, and we line up really quick after the last play, how could the Giants stop it?
They will have never even spent a moment preparing for what to do for the possibility of us running Shady behind a lead blocker
…
I guess I feel like by now, Chip has gotten Everypne used to his offense.. Everyone knows you play chip Kelly:
You don’t have to worry about fullback or lead blockers
We will lineup in Shotgun all game long
We are going to play fast
….
Since teams now have preconceived notions about this offense, why not run 1 play per game, that’s commonly used in NFL football, but it’s something that no one expects to ever see in Chips offense..
…
For example… This week, run 1 play out of “I formation”
..
Next game run one play out of “3 back Pistol”
…
Game after that, run an Andy Reid shovel pass out of ANDYs two back set
…
There are soooo many different ways you can play this game.. Now that everyone has come to expect a certain something out of chip..why not take advantage and run one play per game that we no for a fact our opponent hasn’t talked about defending all week?
I expect Polk to be injured all season or until late in the season with his hamstring. It’s one of the largest muscle groups in the body and if it isn’t gonna let you run, you’re not going to run.
Polk’s persistent hamstring problem has been so damned frustrating.
I’m assuming that at some point this season, Kelly planned to let Polk run the ball.
Or at least, Kelly banked on Polk being available in the event McCoy or Sproles suffered an injury.
And lately, Polk seized the KR job with some nice work.
(Those guys don’t fall out of trees, either. Yes, nice to have Huff.)
I’m in the camp that a healthy Polk could — if he were on the Colts, for example — produce some very good numbers.
At this point, though, Kelly’s gotta be wondering if he can depend on Polk. [“What have you done for me lately, etc.”]
____________
Goes without saying that Polk’s more frustrated than any of us.
Great kid. Tough kid. Promising kid.
He’s entering his 4th NFL season next year.
If I’m Kelly and Roseman, I’m looking for a RB with less pension/free-agency time to force me to move on from Polk.
l. blount! Any way to move tucker up? i guess you’d have to release someone on the roster.
Opposite. If Kelly was that concerned with Polk’s injury, he would have kept either Tucker or Josey instead of cutting them both and going with an injured Polk.
SS:
I’m talking prospectively.
No question about the past.
I would assume Burton starts taking RB reps in practice.. Might As well. He has experience at it, and you know he will be active because Of his ST play..
Those are major special team losses
For me, the two most surprising things from Sunday’s tape:
…
1) Just how comfortable and effective B DOT GRIZZLE is starting to look at outside Linebacker, no way he could back up Barwin and COLE last year.. It’s a huge addition for him to be able to spell both players at the level he is starting to play at…just watch Brandon Graham’s play every other game starting week 1, he is making HUGE strides in his transition to OLB.. It’s at the point where he looks like an outside LB this year… Last year he played OLB, but certainly didnt Look like an OLB
…
BG was running his mouth in training camp, talking bout how he knows he hasn’t lived up to his draft status and how he owes this fanbase some first round playmaking and he promised that this would be the year he delivered…and we should have paid attention, because he isn’t someone who talked a big game every summer and never lived up to it. I never really heard him talk like that before and the man is friggin DELIVERING!!.. Not only is he consistently making OLB plays, but he is startng to become a playmaker.. Not only sack fumbles, but also starting to have a gnack for poking the ball out and causing RBs to fumble…
…
2) Casey Mathews. I been talking crap about dude for years,,and he still is a liability in coverage but I have to tip my hat for the way he is playing the run…I find myself going back and doubled checking the tape because it’s hard for me to believe he made the plays that I’m seeing..against the Niners he wAs solid defending the runs up the middle, but against the Rams you also start seeing him move laterally and shutdown some perimeter plays (OLBs were fantastic at setting the edge last week after a poor showing against the niners)
G- spent to much time reading/interacting with some of the usual negative posters over at 24/7, was almost beleiving eags are lucky 4-1, and played poorly Sunday. i would suggest you not read this mornings article on Foles, you’ll pop every blood vessel in your eyes. did some good heavy lifting posting today, got me at least straightened out. thanks.
.
now, can someone do something about never-nasty Nate? what’s going on with Wolff?
LOL @ Jay Gruden pissed at his players laughing and joking during the 4th quarter and as after their game when they fell to 1-4… welcome to coaching a group of stone cold Losers jay gruden… Where their best players Brian Orakpo, gets half a sack in 5 games while asking for 40million dollar plus extensions.. Hopefully brilliant Dan Snyder breaks the piggy bank open for orakpo..
…
I promise you won’t see Jason Peters, and the Eagles joking and laughing after a loss..
I still remember Chip’s PC after that first loss against the Chargers.
He was visibly upset, and when prompted, expressed how “This doesn’t feel good does it?” something to that effect.
I’m looking forward to the Eagles bringing a huge beatdown on the Redskins in the rematch, “The Revenge of the Cheap (and illegal, we don’t give a sh*t what the league says) Hit.” Wipe those stupid giggles off of Snider’s sychophants.
Oh..I don’t care if we are 11-2 when we play them and they are 1-12, I want to beat them into submission when we play them. I won’t care about records or stats THAT day.. The fun part is that game is scheduled for after Kelce and Mathis return
…
I’m sure those two will have a thing or two to say to that scumbag NT Chris Baker… Hopefully he will be nice and healthy for week 14 Eagles game
Yup, let’s kick those scumbags so deep into the East basement they can’t even imagine coming up.
You probably know the old feeling about the season being a success even if we went 2-14, as long as the wins were over the Cowboys. After the 1st game against the BakerSkins, I now hate Wash almost as much as Dallas.
Hahahah Maclin is the man. Gave the best answer to one of our media dopes.
…
He was asked why the deep ball isn’t working that well..he answered “I don’t know. According to yall, I can’t run, and nIck can’t throw” LOL.. Perfect answer. Don’t give those idiots anything!
That’s about as well as I’ve ever seen a public figure — athlete, actor, politician, or otherwise — politely twist the knife to say: “How’s it feel?”
Really it was just the polite way to tell the media off. Basically just the politically correct version of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOKJTRHMdw
one of my favorite moments in film history. always creates an awkward moment when I recreate it, usually directed unsuspecting or unknowing parties.
Playing with a lead is an art of it’s own and part of a paradigm on the verge of shifting? It’s not as simple as “just keep playing the same way that got you the lead and you will win”. Simply because you aren’t exactly playing the same team that you were playing when you got you big lead. This new team you face is throwing the ball a lot more, is bolder, more creative, and desperate. Oh and if it’s dire enough they get 4 downs to get first downs. So yes, defenses must be able to shift gears when their opponents do. However, the by the book method of protecting a lead is under siege. Your strategy shouldn’t give your opponent a very good chance of winning when you have a significant advantage. The by-the-book method of protecting a lead is begging for innovation. I’d be surprised if it looks the same in 10 years with offenses able to move the football faster than ever. Sure current tactics will still be around, but only at very very late moments of a game.
Bring. On. The. Giants.
Oh boy I cannot wait for all black Sunday night Eagles football! I have a feeling that three players will drastically step their game up:
Nick Foles: 24/35 for 306 yards and 3 TDs
Shady McCoy: 22 rushes for 137 yards
Cary Sconce Williams: pick 6
#FlyEaglesFly
that’d be nice
‘nice’, just nice?! You know what my wifey once told me what nice stands for: NeverInComplimentEver.