Better Defense
Posted: December 2nd, 2014 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 138 Comments »If you’re an Eagles fan, you like defense. From Chuck Bednarik to Bill Bergey to Reggie White to Brian Dawkins to Trent Cole…there have been defensive stars for every generation. The Eagles haven’t always been pretty on offense, but you could usually count on tough defense.
Things were far from great in 2013. The Eagles were 29th in yards allowed. They did finish 17th in points allowed, but that’s hardly reason to set down your PBRs and start high-fiving Bill Davis. Still, I’ve written a few times about how the Eagles defense would need to be judged differently in the Chip Kelly era. Due to the up-tempo offense, the defense would be facing more plays than ever.
The Eagles did face the most plays in 2013. If you adjust things and go off yards per play, the defense was 21st. That’s better than 29th, but still not impressive. Davis needed to deliver better results this year. And he has.
The overall numbers aren’t great. The Eagles are 24th in yards allowed, but 19th in points allowed. There are some signs of improvement. They are all the way up at 11th in yards per play. The Eagles are 2nd in sacks and lead the NFL in FFs. Prior to the Dallas game, the defense was ranked 8th in DVOA by Football Outsiders. The defense has made some big plays this year. They have 4 return TDs.
Fletcher Cox and Connor Barwin are having Pro Bowl seasons. Mychal Kendricks might get some Pro Bowl talk if he continues to play well. Role players like Brandon Graham and Vinny Curry are having great years.
Last year the defense played two really good games. They held the Lions to 231 yards and 20 points and the Bears to 257 yards and 11 points. The Lions game was the Snow Bowl so that helped the Eagles to keep Megatron from going nuts.
This year the defense has a shutout (that did really happen, right?). They just held Dallas to 10 points in Dallas. The Panthers trailed 45-7 before scoring a pair of garbage time TDs. The Rams trailed 34-7 late in the 3rd quarter when they went nuts to somehow make that a close game. The Eagles have held 5 teams to 317 yards or less. When the defense plays well, they can be pretty good.
There are some ugly games as well. Aaron Rodgers and the Packers were like a machine. The Skins somehow put up 34 points and 511 yards on the Eagles. That’s the biggest head-scratcher of the year.
There is still a ton of room for improvement, but it does feel good to see Davis getting the defense headed in the right direction. The pass rush has come alive. Takeaways are now coming. The Eagles had 11 of them in the first 8 games and have had 11 in the 4 games since then. That’s very encouraging.
I would love to see the Eagles end the season with 50 sacks and ranked 19th or better in yards allowed and 15th or better in points allowed. Those stats wouldn’t necessarily mean anything, but it would show good defense down the stretch run and that would help the team to win games.
There were some times this year when I wondered if Bill Davis was a good guy, but bad coach. Just because you like someone doesn’t mean he’s the right man for the job. I want him to succeed in the worst way so I’m glad he’s got the defense showing definitive improvement and headed in the right direction.
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We can probably all agree that it’s the big play which kills the Eagles defense.
Whether that’s giving up 40 plus yards on bomb to Dez Bryant or a 14 yard draw on 3rd and 10 -cut the big plays in half and you’ve got a top 10 defense.
Ok it’s fantasy play-offs time. Rank these 3 in full point ppr please!:
Isaiah Crowell, Giovani Bernard, Tre Mason (for this week).
I’m leaning Crowell and Mason… am I crazy? Washington (Mason) is actually stingy stat wise against fantasy backs, but I mean they don’t seem all that bad when I watch them.
I have to say you are right..I have Gio in two leagues and am scared to use him because of his 50/50 timeshare…also have Mason, and am starting him over Gio. He probably won’t go nuts like last week, but he is the main back there and that offense is clicking a bit. Crowell i think is a decent start or flex start based on his number of carries.
Also, noticed you were an O’s and Eagles fan…as am I! Live in bmore, grew up an O’s fan and was watching the Eags when there were no Ravens. Disappointed about Cruz, but not surprised. Knew he’d chase the money.
Yeah, the spots are for my RB2/Flex spot. Lacey has RB1 locked up (thank god he came around). It’s a tough decision. Based purely on match ups, Mason would be the sit, but it is hard to bench a guy after a monster game like that. These dudes tend to snowball. Also watching all 3 this year Gio looks the worst.
Same exact way I got into the Eagles. I grew up in SoMd and live outside Bmore now. I don’t blame Cruz. We were never going to give him anything close to fair market value and have the ability to keep some of the younger talent. I think it was the best for all involved.
Agreed…we weren’t going to give him 4 years. I think we have to keep Markakis but that’s probably going to happen, and can probably fill some of those AB’s with an outside bat, plus weiters and manny (hopefully) healthy.
deaza left and young DH. Boom.
Mason
Crowell
Bernard
Mason and Crowell are close.
This belongs in the last thread, but alas:
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/99446/power-rankings-sanchez-boosts-eagles
It’s a good read. And I present it without further comment.
“Sanchez may be working the Chip Kelly offense more to design than Foles had been this season. Sanchez is getting rid of the ball quicker, throwing shorter and getting more yards after the catch than Foles was.
Sanchez’s passes have been thrown an average of 2.45 seconds after the snap this season, quicker than Foles’ 2.73-second average. The difference might seem minimal, but of the 39 quarterbacks with 100 passes this season, Sanchez’s time from snap to release ranks as the 11th-quickest. Foles’ ranks 33rd.
One of Foles’ biggest faults this season was his deep passing. Foles threw the ball at least 30 yards past the line of scrimmage 22 times this season. He hasn’t played since Week 9, and that’s still within three of the league lead. Foles completed four of those passes (18.2 percent), and although three of those were touchdowns, he also had four interceptions deep.
Sanchez has done a better job of picking his spots, going 3-of-6 on passes thrown at least 30 yards downfield with no interceptions. And by picking his spots better and getting the ball out quicker, Sanchez has been more effective passing to the Eagles’ biggest play-making receivers.”
those deep passes are also the reason why his time to throw avg is so high… gotta wait for the guy to get 30 yards downfield, right?
wonder if those were called to be deep pass plays, or if Foles changed something to forego the shorter passing game. (why would Foles have more deep passes than Sanchez?)
Good points, will be interesting to see the coaches’ take on all of it when Foles is healthy. Words won’t be worth a whole bunch, but action or lack there of will. I’m really not sure, as long as we keep winning games, I’m good with the decision.
Quite often isnt a deep pass that much longer. The biggest problem was him often not throwing to the first open guy
Most of the time people made those claims, they were later refuted by informed analysis. For instance, many times people were screaming that Foles was missing Maclin on 4 verticals plays. Then coach Flin (or someone like him) said that Maclin was the fourth read, and that QBs are coached to go through the full progression, because that’s really what happens when QBs “look off a safety,” the play is designed to look off the safety if the QB follows his progression.
Another informed source made the point that all-22 is really dangerous in the hands of people who don’t have any clue what the QB is coached to do on the play.
And on some of those plays Maclin was wide open and Foles was looking directly at him
Ok, so you expect Foles to perform at Rodgers’s level. No missed throws, no mistakes ever, in his first full year as starter. Because Rodgers is the only guy I’ve watched who hasn’t missed throws or open receivers. Glad we cleared up where our dispute is.
To be clear (again) – Foles underperformed this year, but while he was underperforming, so was Shady. And Shady’s turnaround just so happened to coincide with the OL’s return to relative health and dominance in several games. It’s not out of the realm of possibility, to me at least, that Foles’s performance would have improved pretty significantly, too. No one operating in reality can say that they know either way with complete confidence.
and sometimes foles just threw bad balls. just like mark sanchez throws bad balls. I’m just happy that MS isn’t turning the ball over twice every game — just some games. Hopefully he can continue to eliminate that (though i can’t fault him for throwing a pick against SEA).
Absolutely not trying to absolve all of Foles’s sins. He’s a young QB who struggled with a non-existent run game and a turnstyle offensive line in his first full season as a starter. The injury was bad on a lot of fronts, because the real test would have been seeing him playing under the near perfect conditions Sanchez has playing with. Maybe he would have looked like last year’s edition of Foles (not exactly, 27-2 ain’t going to happen again, but let’s say very good, bottom of top 10 level performance). Maybe not. I just cringe and need to respond when I see so much criticism that screams “I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I hate Foles, so I’m going to cling to whatever some hack threw against the wall in order to generate page clicks…” There’s legitimate criticism, and then there’s the folks who cling to the pretty thoroughly debunked theory that Chip needs or wants primarily a mobile QB.
Very well said Bill and I agree w your take on foles circa 2014 vs foles circa 2013 in comparison to shady 2013 vs shady first 8 games 2014 w no oline to his revival.
Does seem that sanchez gets it out quicker (he also did this in the preseason) than foles and alot of that is his penchant to throw it short vs long and his ability to get rid of the ball quicker (remember even foles 2013 worst problem was holding ball long and taking alotta sacks – but some wrs couldn’t beat man coverage so maybe thats why).
One thing of note — everyone sees the advantage of chips hyper speed offense on the opposing defense when we go fast for a few drives …. if sanchez is completing shorter quicker more high percentage balls … one would see the offense would run quicker and more consistently and defense tire quicker vs when foles played goes deep …. going deep too much hurts this offense two ways 1) lesser percentage completed play so its produces more less successful drives 2) slows down drives w more incompletions 3) doesn’t allow our offense to tire the opposing defense on current drive and lesser cumulative tire effect on opposing defense later in game. w healthy offensive line it may not matter either way but tempo effect seems integral to chip’s offensive success — making me think shorter RAC throws and sanchez style is better if run optimally.
downside to sanchex style is his lack of ability to throw deep may soon be taken advantage of by a strong opposing defensive secondary (seahawks) where they push everyone up to stop run and short/intermediate throws knowing sanchex isn’t comfortable throwing deep to keep safeties and corners honest. Thats how i would defend eagles w sanchez.
This makes a lot of sense, kinda like how everyone was complaining about Fletcher not getting his head around in coverage, until Chip explained that we coach them to keep their eyes on the receiver’s hands.
Gotta say my keys to SB are pass rush and run game. We might just get there.
If we get to the superbowl it will be a cake-walk compared to the miracle of beating the packer’s in Lambeau, that’s the real superbowl.
I’m just going to stop looking at defensive rankings all together. They are worthless. Tom is absolutely right that you can’t judge this defense the way all the others are judged.. It’s not like you should need rankings to know if you are playing good defense or not, your eyes should be enough.
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I don’t even think these defensive coaches get anywhere near the credit they deserve, Billy, Azzinaro, McGovern, Minter.. These men have done a spectacular job….. Coming into this season, the consensus was that we would have trouble rushiñg the passer this year because fans and media didn’t see that 20 sack monster that they think you need. Are pass rush was supposed to be a major weakness this year, after all, they didn’t add any pass rushers from last years underwhelming group (besides a rookie),,…. Yet we are seeing the same exact players that were supposed to be “average pass rushers”, combine for second in the NFL in sacks…. THATS COACHING!
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Billy Davis mentioned it again today, but he has said this in the past. Talked about how last year, they really focused on teaching the OLBs to move backwards, and once they got comfortable moving backwards, this year we were able to focus the coaching on the pass rush, no coincidence COLE, Barwin and BG are having monster pass rush years compared to last year…that’s ALL COACHING!! billy also mentioned how the staff really prioritized fixing the tackling since coming to philly and now we are one of the more sound tackling defenses…that’s coaching!
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Billy praised BG,for his POWER, “when he gets that bull rush going, it doesn’t matter how big you are, he is Goimg to knock you backwards”..”also added,a nice counter. And spin move to his repertoire , but his power and leverage is really his bread and butter
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Much of the improvements also should be attributed to continuity, along with the coaching. for example all the twisting, and stunting we do, requires a lot of chemistry and timing… really need more than 1 year to get that timing down between two team mates….
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this article mentions the head scratching defensive performance against Washington early in the season. If you look at the defense that shut down dallas and the Giamts, and compare the Washingtn game, sure it’s head scratching, but we aren’t the same defense today as we were in September. People are excited about the defensive improvements, but they have to understand that we are far from a maxed out unit. We have a bunch of young defenders who are playing well, but still have more growing, and improving to do. Fletcher Cox is still younger than Rookie Zack Martin. As great as Everyone thinks Cox is playing, we aren’t seeing his best football yet. He still will get stronger, as he gains more experience he will get craftier. As great as Cox is, as awesome as it is to see Logan leading all NFL NTs in tackles, as great as it is to see Curry and Kendrick and Boykin… Their best football is still ahead of them.. This entire defense is still pretty young, as individual players, and young in terms of as a unit…..Think these players don’t even have a year of chemistry with Malcolm Jenkins yet, and he is the friggin QB of the defense
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We could add no new players to this defense, and we will continue to see improvements, because as individual players, our puppies still have room to grow into their ceilings and as a defense we still have gelling and chemistry to build. We could do Nothing, and bring back every one of these players, and we will see a better defense… Wait til year 4… When our puppies are close to their primes(second contracts), and the entire defense has 3 years of experience playing together, than we will really see a scary defense..
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Of course we won’t do nothing, and keep every single player, so we can still improve as a defense by adding personel, but having these players and these coaches is very exciting, because we don’t have to do ANYTHNG, but just keep working, and this much improved defense will continue to improve. Think Cox is Nasty this year, wait til you see the chemistry between him and Barwin next year running stunts..
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It’s a proven fact that we have the right defensive coaches. We aren’t drastically changing the personel to make these defensive improvements, these improvements were home grown, coming from the coaches teaching these players the new scheme….it’s very exciting to think how much better they can whip this defense into with another offseason of coaching and continuity to build on our chemistry, plus our GM blessing us with some more defensive Talent… By year 3(next year) and year 4, we will be seeing a BEAST of a defense, made up of most of the defenders you have been watching the past two years
Thinks i care about with our D, Points, QB Pressure, Turnovers. I think that’s how they judge themselves. The idea not being to stop the other team but to give us more opportunities to score more points than they do.
Don’t give up hope on stats! They’re just another way to present data. In our case, I think we need to rely more on advanced stats. E.g. 8th in DVOA seems just about right to me and reflects the way we’re playing.
It’s also important to think about stats in terms of goals for the defense. Turnovers seem like an unusually high priority when rushing the QB in our D. This skews the normal risk/reward comparisons, and the defense should be judged in terms of goals like this. To this point, we’ve been really successful. There’s usually a huge amount of variability from year to year on turnovers, but when you combine it with qualitative data (e.g. film study, eye test…), I think it’s pretty clear that this isn’t just luck.
All I’m saying is that quantitative data is only information. It’s not evidence for anything unless it’s interpreted as part of an argument. By putting the qualitative and quantitative data together in appropriate ways, we can build stronger arguments in the end.
Still like some defensive stats, but I doubt we will ever see our defensive ranking as an accurate judgement of where our defense is… Stats I do like:
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– Second in the NFL in sacks, and the impressive part is that an bunch of dogs are chipping in, and i really think it’s impressive how well they rush the passer as a unit. It’s a very Discaplined pass rush were no one is just doing his own thing to rack up sacks. Often the player getting credit for the sack isn’t really the player that made the play and that’s just a testament to how well and unselfish our guys are rushiñg as a unit….. The best part about this stat, is we reached this high ranking with the same exact players we had last year, that shows that we have,some SERIOUS coaching, because this pass rush is homegrown and considering what McGoverm has done with BG and COLE, Maaaaarcus Daaaaaarling is in good hands!
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– Bennie Logan leads ALL NT’s in tackles. Not only does this monster eat up double teams to let guys like Casey Mathews have success, but this baby beast is shedding double teams and making the tackles himself, while also possessing the ability to move laterally and be able to defend plays to the outside like that stretch run play we see from teams like Dallas and Washington…not to mention he does a good job of collapsing the pocket and isnt a complete pass rush liability like most NT’s…
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brandon Graham is the most efficient pass rushing OLB in the NFL. No one gets more production out of the snaps he gets than Brandon and he has been a selfless team player who is also performing like a monster on Special Teams, Big monster block to spring Huff two weeks ago.
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We have improved drastically since last year in 3rd down percentage. we are seeing a dfense that can now get off the field on 3rd down
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Defense that has only given up one 100 yard rushing game all year, managing to shut down some potent RBs…
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Tight Ends have been slaughtering the Eagles since Carlos Emmons it feels like, this year, Connar Barwin and Malcolm Jenkins have probably displayed the best Tight end defense I have seen in this city since Dawk or Emmons.
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The best part is that so much of our improvements are home grown that come from hard work and really good coaching. we see some really impressive defenders recently like Cox and Bennie Logan but the best part is these kids haven’t realized all their full potential just yet. As great as Cox looks, we haven’t even seen his best ball yet…
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For two years now we have been watching most of the players that will eventually make up a top defense… Add somemore young talemt in the drafts, maybe another veteran and with another offseason of work and continuity, it will be evident next year that the Eagles have a top defense, no matter what the rankings say
Interestingly, DVOA shows Seattle’s D as only a little better than ours (6th and 8th). However, its O grades out as significantly better (7th as opposed to 15). This runs counter to any standard narrative. Our advantage in special teams makes up a lot of ground. We are, however, ahead of them in weighted DVOA (recent games).
If all QBs went down as easy as Romo did on Turkey Day, Graham would have more than double his sack total. I don’t know what FF give as his missed tackle total, but he has had his hands on at least 5 more sacks only to see them wriggle out of it. I’d love him back.
Probably early to discuss, but what about Rex Ryan as DC?
How do you justify firing billy davis? Are you going to commit to paying for the secondary that rex ryan needs. Will Chip let Rex dominate the draft? Do you want to start over with a new scheme?
Obviously that’d be awesome to have a real defense but i think we’re at the point where continuity is king.
Ours and Rex Ryans scheme is pretty similar.
yeah we leave our corners on islands a lot even if we probably shouldnt
I would disagree with that.
would you take Ryan over Davis given the roster?
Rex’s current defense is probably schematically most similar to Bellichecks hybrid fronts. Rex is smart enough he could make it work in the short term, but long term he would want to move to something more attacking.
Honestly the biggest problem with Rex, is his mouth. I just don’t think he boisterous personality would fit in with what Chip wants to do.
No, it’s really not!
So 3-4 base, with lots of different looks up front and mostly cover 1 or 3 is not similar?
Well Billy Davis as HC candidate is one way he gets “fired…”
Have to be the dumbest team ever.
I think Davis is decent with scheme, but I question his ability to evaluate (particularly young) talent, which is what is, ultimately going to improve this defense. Look at our defensive selections over the last 2 drafts: Bennie Logan, Earl Wolff, Joe Kruger, Jordan Poyer, David King, Marcus Smith, Jaylen Watkins, Taylor Hart, Ed Reynolds, Beau Allen. Who, outside of Bennie Logan has really made a contribution? And while I do like Logan, I don’t think he’s good enough to justify whiffing on so many other picks. I wouldn’t expect Chip to let Rex dominat the draft, but I wonder if he would have made better selections at those spots. Who knows? Most of these picks are not early, and the Marcus Smith picks really, in my mind, inflates how bad this looks…and this might be as much on Roseman as it is on Davis, but I can’t help but wonder…
The DC isn’t a talent evaluator. The organization has a few dozen scouts for that.
And, really, sounds like you want Smith to be a poor player without giving him a chance or even comparing him to other defensive players from the same draft.
I think that it’s probably a stretch to say that the DC has no hand in evaluation of the defensive talent or input on the defensive players drafted.
I’m would love to be proven wrong about Smith. It just seems like a 1st rounder that can’t get on the field in garbage time is not something that instills confidence.
Overall, I’ve liked a lot of what Davis has done – I was just wondering what it might be like to have Rex Ryan as DC – that is all.
I’m a fan of Rex. (Oddly, not a Buddy Ryan fan though)
The Jets are just a terrible organization. The fact that he’s had any success there is a testament to how good of a coach he is. It’s like going to Washington -could you imagine anybody going to back to back championship games there?
Terry Bradshaw, drafted 1st overall, did not start a single game in his rookie season. When inducted into the Hall of Fame, he could hardly lift his hand for all the Super Bowl rings.
Yeah, examples from 45 years ago are pretty germane to today’s NFL…
I think she’s saying we need a weak-armed QB and the Steel Curtain, and we’ll be champs for sure!
While I’m not sold on Davis yet either, I don’t think that is a fair criticism, at least yet. There are some whiffs in there to be sure, but there always are. He’s certainly involved in the drafting but it’s not all him either.
Bennie Logan — looks like a terrific pick.
Earl Wolff — looked very good early, got hurt, and hasn’t been the same since. Can’t predict injuries, and maybe he’ll be able to get back next year. This year was lost due to injury but looked like a great low-round pick initially.
Joe Kruger, Jordan Poyer, David King — whiffs. Poyer is on NFL roster and other two are on practice squads, so could still pan out as depth, but… not for the Eagles.
Marcus Smith — jury still *way* out. Not expected to play much this year, and made even more moot by improvements by Cole and Graham, though a bit disappointing he didn’t get any snaps at all. Now moved to a different position which he didn’t prepare for in preseason, so you can’t expect very much.
Jaylen Watkins — jury still out but was hoping to see a bit more. He does have four veterans ahead of him.
Taylor Hart — 2014 pick who got injured in preseason and is now on IR. I don’t see how you could expect anything, or call him a “whiff” yet.
Ed Reynolds — jury still out (2014 pick) but I don’t have great hopes.
Beau Allen — looks like a great 7th round pick; has provided quality backup snaps for Logan.
1. Talent evaluation is done by scouts. The board is set by Kelly and Howie. The coordinators and position coaches may get brought in to help distinguish guys who are clustered together, but they aren’t putting a guy with a sixth round grade into the second. Additionally, Chip has certain size minimums that he will not stray from so certain players aren’t even on the board to begin with. (Per John Middlekauf former Eagles scout)
2. Out of all those picks, do you notice something? A certain 2 of those things are not like the others, two of those things are not quite the same. Exactly. Only Smith and Logan were top 100 picks. Anybody taken outside the top 100 is typically a bit player if they even make the squad.
You also are making the key mistake in assessing players by results (extremely early in the process) and not by the process. Every great NFL personel man who has been asked always emphasizes that the fact that they deal with human beings, adds a high level of variability in the outcome of a selection. You could absolutely think you have the best player ever, and for whatever reason (injury, headcase, lack of interest, drugs, off field problems) the player doesn’t make it. But if you have a proper system in place in the long run things work out.
Lets look at those later picks, and the process:
Wolff: GREAT athlete for the position, lots of game experience, solid tackler
Kruger: Very talented player, declared too early, needed time to continue to grow and develop, good athleticism for size.
Poyer: All American. Ball hawk. Not huge, and not super fast, but more than worth a 7th
David King: Highly rated recruit, never really found a natural position at Oklahoma, big athletic tweener. There are alot of good NFL role players who are tweeners.
Ok so in 13 you have a fifth round pick who has shown flashes, but has been hampered by injuries. Then you have three seventh round picks (you do know that like over half of all seventh round picks don’t make rosters right? and almost none are on rosters a couple years later?) who all had attributes to like.
Watkins: Decent size, bloodlines, extremely athletic, versatile, kind of got lost in the shuffle at UF, but certainly worth the pick
Hart: Played in a 2 gap 34. Good size, probably needed a year in the weight room, but had the injury situation at ILB happened at DL, would have been more than capable of being a quality rotation piece
Reynolds: Honestly this is the only pick in the two years I don’t get at all. Smart and bloodlines or some shit I guess.
Allen: Has played well. Doesn’t see a ton of snaps, due to him being more of a run stuffing NT and the amount of nickel we play, but has acquited himself nicely.
I don’t even know how you can criticize the Wolff pick – if he pans out or not. He’s an athletic freak. At a position who is very, very drought in the NFL at the moment. He was available in the fifth round.
Was he the smartest Safety in college football? Hell no. A smart athletic freak would have been a first round pick. But you can’t teach his athletic traits. You can hope to improve his instincts with good coaching – something we have.
There is never a guarantee for a 5th rounder. Wolff had at least a chance to pan out.
Now: we can’t even say that his instincts haven’t improved. We don’t know that. He played injured since camp. I have no idea if he was injury prone in college (if we knew it when we drafted him; if we knew, others knew, too). But it doesn’t matter. Still worth a 5th.
If there weren’t any medical concerns, it was just bad luck for Wolff and the Eagles. Could happen to your first round pick. As long as there aren’t any credible medical concerns, injuries can ruin a career. Doesn’t mean the players was bad when he was drafted.
Rex is obviously a great defensive mind. The Billy Davis question aside, you have to wonder how he would fit with Chip Kelly’s environment.
It’s more likely that he’d stay in North Jersey when the Giants clean house.
I don’t see him getting a HC job. Offenses under him have been horrible, you see what they put out there last night? He’d be perfect on a team w/ an offensive minded head coach. But rex is going to want to spend first round picks on D players, that’s how you build a sold D. He’d obvioulsy be a huge improvement over Billy D who is regularly outschemed by the better HC / OC in the league (see saints, GB). That’s what i think might get him fired.
Ryan will be the HC of either the Bears or Falcons next year.
He’ll have his pick of HC vacancies. I could even see the Giants going after him.
To abysmal on the offensive side. This is an offensive league now. I think he will be hired as a DC.
It’s kinda scary to think what Ryan could do with a decent organization behind him. Only the Cowboys and Skins are bigger dumpster fires organization-wise than the Jets…and the ‘boys are arguable since they do win some games now and again.
If the Jags fire Gus Bradley, I would hire him to be our DC in a heartbeat.
My secret hope is that his firing coincides with Davis moving on, after the second SB victory.
Chip likes the 3-4 though
If that is where this scenario gets derailed, I will cope.
Bradley runs the Pete Carrol 43 under.
Sometimes continuity is the best thing for a team. Esspecially when you see constant progresion. Why change that? And like D3FB stated, he runs a 4-3, not a 3-4. Would you want our players converting back to 4-3 after just learning the 3-4?
Gus Bradley never ran a pure 4-3. It was a 4-3 defense with 3-4 elements. He has said numerous times he ran a 4-3 base in Seattle because of the personnel he had there. All defenses nowadays run different formations and rarely stay in their base all game. Davis has used four linemen at times rushing Cox and Graham off the ends.
I agree with you about continuity, but Bradley has a better track record than Davis.
Good to see that the D has improved this year and I’m hopeful the we’re able to continue to upgrade it for next season.
We’re still in need of upgrades at CB (2), S, ILB, and OLB.
But playing much better at more spots than we were last year.
We could do nothing, and just keep everyone together and it would still improve. We still have chemistry to build, figure the defense hasn’t even played an entire year yet with Jenkins. We also have a handful of high quality defenders like Cox, who we look at as awesome players, but who’s best ball we haven’t even seen yet, we have a bunch of quality defenders who are still improving as players.
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take Bennie Loganl that monster is already leading all NT in tackles.. Imagine what a beast he will be in two years when he know all the tricks of the trade and adds more weight and strength to his improved technique..
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Of course we will also upgrade the talent, but much of this promising defense still has about anotjer years worth of growth to undergo.
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Think the 4th year is when you really see your defense firing on all cylinders… Few more talemt additions next offseason, another years worth of growth and continuity, and by year 4, We should be scary on that side of the ball
My hope is that Allen gets a little better. If so, he could be a solid S moving forward as we continue to build out the entire team.
He’s been playing better over the last few games, and he seems to be making the right decisions on where to be. I think that’s most of the battle.
I think you also have to mention teaching a bunch of 4-3 guys how to play the 3-4. Not only that but the 2 gap system is a complete 180 to the wide 9. You also have to mention the amount of talent or lack of in numerous spots that he is working with. In some cases complete failures such as Mathews and making him compitent to say the least. Allen also having his best year so far, which honestly hasnt been great but it has been better. I really think you give him better talent in certain areas (CB) and this D could really take another large step forward.
I’m not sure that you can judge this defense on the same metrics that you base others, because to a certain extent, they’re not trying to do the same thing. I think the entire scheme is based on generating turnovers, and when that’s not possible, limit the big play so that you have more attempts at generating turnovers. For example, the team has clearly made an effort to emphasize FFs over sacks. With that regard, I can’t imagine that someone like Rex Ryan coming in and trying to play a traditional defense would do much better at the turnover game than Davis has. Get the guy some talent and see what he can really do.
Tommy,
You have to consider how teams play when the offense puts up lots of points. Plus you have a lot of games where the offense just died too. The difference iwhen you factor in a few extra drives because of the hurry up.
So, my eyeball test says pretty good defense. Around 8th.
Took the personel who every single person said would be destined to be “historically bad again” last year, needed 4 games and after the Denver game went on to coach this unit up to drastic improvements, every single person didn’t think was possible, and a year later, people are starting to realize how wrong they were about that personel… Considering every single one of you thought we had “NO TALENT” on defense, and now that same personel has been coached into quality defenders, who to a man have drastically improved since the players they were when billy got here, I’m not sure how anyone can be anything but impressed at the coaching job this defensive staff has done, considering how little you all thought of these young defenders…. Amd that doesn’t even take into account how many of these young exsisting players “weren’t supposed to fit the new 3-4”
…
I don’t get how any one can utter a negative word about the over job billy Davis and his staff has done, considering he made EVERYONE look very very wrong!
he gout outcoached by every playoff team we played. I think he’s been way better this year than last, but then he decided to play the run against green bay, which i didn’t totally understand.
His units are much improved, the line is much improved (is that billy d or azz)?
“Considering every single one of you thought we had “NO TALENT” on defense…”
Um, what? No. That isn’t even close to accurate.
Some, like myself, were confident enough to draft them as my fantasy defense. Others were concerned by the holes they perceived. Still others resort to hyperbole, overstating their worries. And, yes, some people were in full out, doom-and-gloom Eeyore mode.
Which defenders are playing worse than they were last year?
Boykin would be a good example, but he’s clearly dealing with an injury. Fletcher would be another.
the secondary was bad last year — hard to say they are worse this year.
Hate to admit it, but I’d probably say Nate is having a better year than last year. He still had his share of costly maddening moments like bad over the top coverage on Desean and Jon Brown, but I feel like he is making more plays than last year, and cutting down on the costly mistakes…. Still would love to see him upgraded tho
He’s making plays, i think he’s “seeing things” better, I don’t think he’s better in coverage but he’s better playing a centerfield safety. Part of the game is being in the right position i suppose.
For the centerfielder, I think that part is the biggest.
At this point, Nate is the third guy I would choose to upgrade in the secondary.
Who are the first and second?
Nate and Nate 😛
The corners.
They might not be worse, but Boykin has been. His injury is preventing him from really hitting his top gear.
Safety play is better. Even from Nate.
I don’t see any difference in bradley Fletcher. He is this year what he was last year….
…
I haveh watched the slot corner close enough to agree or refute your claim about boykin, but personally I don’t neccessarily equate less interceptions to not playing as well as last year. At no point this season have i seen Boykin treated like a Pigeon were some other team thought they could just pick on him all game. He doesn’t have the interceptions he has last year, but I don’t notice any drop off in play this year. But like I said, I haven’t watched the nickel corner close enough to be able to say that.. Somehow I doubt you have either, but ok…
he got roasted outside, but he’s made plays inside.
A suggestion for all the great big, handsome athletes all commenting on this site. Get a friend, preferably another big strong athletic fella to grab you really hard right on one of your pectorals. Have him hang on tight. Dig right in. Then you try to reach up to the top shelf to put away that special Thanksgiving turkey platter. That’s what it feels like to play football with a pec injury.
Was under the impression that Boykin was dealing with hamstring issues? I’m not suggesting he should play through an injury–I was one of the people saying all along that Wolff’s injury had to have been more significant than we were hearing. I’m just answering the question as asked.
I feel that the Eagles fans feel that our corner players are much worse then they actually are. Fans need to remember that under this defense our corners are often matched up in 1 and 1 situations. Williams and Fletcher especially are not as bad as the perceptions is out there. Fletcher seems to have the scorn of the fans this season and I am not saying he is one of the better corners in the league, but do not feel he is as bad as many fans feel.
There is a reason why QBs have thrown at him more then.any other CB in the league.
“Carolina on Tuesday parted ways with cornerback Antoine Cason, releasing the veteran. The 28-year-old was on a one-year deal and will finish his time under Ron Rivera with a pair of interceptions and 44 tackles.
Cason will hit waivers on Tuesday afternoon and could be an interesting option for a competitive team looking to secure some cornerback depth down the stretch.
Cason was a first-round pick by the San Diego Chargers in 2008 and spent last season in Arizona.”
Okay folks. run, run, quick. Go get a CB, who is only 28 and has played on FOUR different teams. And has just been released by the PANTHERS.Surely he must be the savior for the Eagles. Hurry, quick.
Where do I sign up?
I think if we sign him it will solve ALL our secondary woes. Being serious though, he will be signed to a team that has injuries at CB. There is a reason he was cut. Not interested.
nah, they stink.
The Eagles are two cornerbacks away from a great defense. (another safety and ILB would be nice too)
Heck, I would argue just one good corner. If they don’t throw much to one side of the field you know where the ball is going. I agree our CB’s aren’t top notch but they do what they can.
Eagles were 7th in points allowed from week #5 and beyond in 2013. It was really just those first 4 games.
It was Denver, Dallas, NYG that killed it. We scored a lot against WAS, KC, SD.
I’m talking about points allowed not scored.
you’re right
yea because Matt Cassell didnt light up the Eagles
give me literally one more after week 4
It might be worth noting that it took an act of God (Victor Cruz knee injury) to get that shut-out against the Giants. He was wide open in the end zone.
lol. This is such a you thing to say.
You mean indisputable fact? Yep!
But if you want to pretend that it was all skill that kept them from scoring, knock yourself out.
Is it ever all skill though? Probably not. It’s just a pessimistic, glass half empty, you thing to say lol.
S**t happens. Dont make it an excuse. Stuff happens and the result is what it is.
Just stating facts. No need to be defensive.
I was sorta joking around in a d**khead humorous type of way.
Are you implying that God is an eagles fan?
Tough hypothesis given that God has given so much to the Giants…
Wait, does that mean God is a fair weather fan?
Pretty sure God is a Packers fans
doesn’t much hate the colts either
clearly a Colts fan
It was a reference to Reggie White
Nice. Well played.
If you combine this data point with the game when we avoided a shutout with an improbable and pointless blocked punt late in the game, maybe.
If you include a comparison to the figures in the Christian bible, at least, who suffer through years of feeling lost, neglected, and defeated before God reveals His intentions…I’d say we are right on track.
If you take the Bible at it’s word, it’s a cruel and merciless god who revels in destruction and pestilence – god is a Cowboys fan.
But even god thinks Jerry Jones is a dick.
But Moses only had to wander through the desert for 40 years…
There’s a god? Interesting.
Two things that are going to very much help us versus Wilson. The fact that Kendricks and Barwin are effective at shadowing or spying on the QB. Kendricks esspecially with his athletism, and Barwin has shown he is capable in the past, specifically against Newton. The other thing is something I love to see, and i notice it every game. Not just against mobile QBs but QBs in general. When we get pressure its a swarm in which the QB is contained. Its not just a single rusher gets free, because Wilson is very capable of making that defender look silly. Very much limits his escape alleys.
Tommy, let’s put the loss in Green Bay in context, okay?
Not Eagles’ context. The Packers’.
I just don’t get this article at all. Week 13 coming off a strong showing against a crippled QB is the week we decide to evaluate if Billy Davis is a decent coach??
Let’s be honest. This is all about maximizing talent and I think he has done a great job of that. Just the same, players make plays. The growth in year two of the 3-4 defense from the young bucks Logan, Cox, and Kendricks is the reason they’re more effective as a unit.
If you ask me, the single best move BillyD has made is develop the dime package with Carroll on the field as a linebacker. If not for that scheme, our inside backers post-Ryans would be a real flaw to be exploited. Be interesting if an offense could go hurry up against the Eagles and then try to pound it right at Carroll and the Eagles be unable to sub.
“This is all about maximizing talent and I think he has done a great job of that.”
Don’t those two statements lead to the conclusion that he is a great coach?
I believe we’ve only faced two top offenses this season – Indy and GB. Gave up combined 80 points, and split. So i think we are actually pretty good against the average teams considering the type of offense we run with TOP, etc – Tommy’s point, but we not yet very good against a very good offense. We won’t see one again until the playoffs.
I would say Dallas is a very good offensive team. Best in rushing, a QB that i beleive was second in league passer rating, and very good skill weapons. Not to make excuses, but when we played Colts it was game two and our defense has been really rounding into form later in the season. Our D then is just simply not the same D now. Switch the jerseys and watch tape from earlier in the year till now and you would think you are watching two different teams. As for the GB game, lol, we just got torched.
Also, they are top offenses for a reason, if we could shut all the offenses down and win all our games we would be a perfect team and winning the SB. The other guys get paid too.
No, if we had Djax we would be undefeated.
Well obviously. Cooper is hot garbage but I guess the blocking we would lose with Desean would be made up by his long ball catches.
lol i was being sarcastic.
cant tell if sarcastic or not
Highly highly sarcastic.
somewhat misleading considering that those points include a kickoff TD and 2 defensive touchdowns
Somehow, we continue to get no respect. last week on inside the NFL, everyone picked against us smh as if dallas was legit lol… After we smacked dallas around, last night everyone picked against the Eagles again…I can’t believe its week 13 and we are still able to fly under the radar. This is awesome. I prefer everyone picking against us, and our boys going into games as the underdog, I’m just really surprised at how we are still being overlooked.
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Tho I will say, props to Micheal Irvin, for shouting out how awesome the Eagles young DL is…
….
Getting anxious for sundays game.
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What’s the matchup fans look most forward to for Sunday? I can’t wait to see my baby beast DL DOMINATE the seahawks OL… Anyone ever stop to wonder why Wilson does so much running around? Because his OL is average at best. And our DL is going to DOMINATE! It’s too late, the league let puppies like Cox and Logan get a taste of blood, now they are blood thirsty and they know they Belong! I expect this defensive line to have some really impressive performance this next month….. I like COLE and BG to outclass the LT, and Logan is Goimg to dominate the backüp Center.
…
Matchup I’m mpst worried about this week, is seeing if we can make enough plays passing the ball against LOB…… And I’m curious to see if we can run the ball against a top defense that will completely sell out to stop our run, and dare Sanchez to beat them….if we can run the ball this week, the league is in trouble, but we probably won’t be able to run, if our passing game Gets completely shut down
Yeh we are consistently being picked against and its something I notice week after week. People won’t be able to pick against us as easy when we are hoisting a Lombardi. This will be a tough game but I’m not really worried. Its the strangest thing. I was worried about the Packers but not this week.
Those are both tough choices! But since our strengh is running the ball and their strengh is defense, I am most looking forward to seeing if we can be successful running the ball! I think that that is also the most important aspect of the game. I can’t see how we win if we can’t run the ball well. I think we could overcome any other circumstance but that.
Two games where I was worried about our running game — niners and cards … chip didn’t run the ball alot and tried to take advantage of the weaker secondaries because those dlines were stout against run.
Shawks dline without mebane or the dl interior depth they had last year makes me think that chip will try to run alot early and often forcing seattle to push everyone up and sell out against run. at that point we play action and take advantage of matthews vs lane and coop vs other corner and sproles/shady vs kj/wagner and ertz vs chancelor/kj
if sanchez has time … seattle can be beaten on double moves deep but i dunno if sanchez throws a powerful enough deep ball to beat the help from earl thomas.
GOnna be tough tough game … i think seattle pushes everyone up realizing sanchez doesn’t like to throw deep .. 8 in box … two corners wide and thomas deep … lotta single high … First to 24 wins
I was watching Sean Smith play the other night and my god he looks huge against those wide receivers! Where does everyone go to see how many yards cbs give up? Smith has 1 int and 13 pd.
The unstoppable force vs. the immovable object. Doesn’t get any better than this.
Because of how the rest of the season went people don’t remember how good of a game Kirk Cousins played against us. He played out of his mind and made some big time throws in that game. Washington came in with the objective to punch us in the face and make a statement. This team took everything the Washington Racists had and still cane on top.