A Convert?
Posted: April 10th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 371 Comments »Quinten Rollins was one of the most interesting players at the Senior Bowl. He had played college basketball for Miami of Ohio for 4 years before deciding to try his hand at college football. And boy did that prove to be a wise decision. He picked off 7 passes and played his way onto the NFL’s radar. Rollins was up and down in Mobile, but you could see his talent. He is a legit NFL prospect.
Jimmy Bama and I got to speak with him one night. Rollins was bright, funny and fun to talk to. He started off with the usual answers, but we got him to let his guard down and be honest with us. I came away very impressed.
I’ve watched tape of lots of DBs since then and went back to do more tape study on Rollins recently. He is one of my favorite prospects in this class and a player I’d love the Eagles to target aggressively. Here’s the interesting part. I’d like them to try him at Safety first.
Some NFL teams, including the Eagles, have been trying some Safety drills with him during workouts. And Mike Mayock liksted him at Safety on his latest rankings.
Rollins has great ball skills. He picked off 7 passes in 2014. Some of them were really impressive. You want a S to have good hands so he can take advantage of any balls that come his way.
Rollins has great instincts. He took up football in his 5th year of college and looked completely natural most of the time. He showed an understanding of routes and plays. He has excellent field awareness. Some players only see what is right in front of them. Rollins saw the whole field.
One of the things that really impressed me is that Rollins is a physical player. He will hit and tackle. He will fight through blocks. Watch what he does to the RT at the 4:25 mark of this video.
That guy was a basketball player? Wow.
Rollins would be perfect for the Eagles scheme. He could play deep, in the box, Cover 2 or slide down and play the slot. He has the size, skill set, athleticism and toughness to handle those roles.
If he doesn’t pan out at S, you can always put him back at CB. I think he could be a good starting corner in the NFL. I just think Safeties are harder to find. And Rollins combination of ball skills and instincts makes me think he could thrive at that position.
If Rollins is on the board in the 2nd round, I hope the Eagles take him.
For now, enjoy his highlights package.
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The preseason schedule was announced yesterday.
Mark your calendars: #Eagles 2015 preseason schedule has arrived. #FlyEaglesFly pic.twitter.com/s36F5FGGhY
— Philadelphia Eagles (@Eagles) April 9, 2015
3 of the 4 teams are in the AFC.
3 of the 4 teams are very good.
We’ll get to see some ex-Eagles in a couple of the games.
How is that for some in-depth reporting on the preseason schedule?
Oh yeah…and the Eagles will have vanilla gameplans.
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Jimmy Bama breaks down the odds on who the Eagles 1st round pick will be.
Oh, and we did record a new podcast in case you missed it.
New Iggles Pod @JimmyKempski & @lawlornfl breakdown down what the #Eagles should do at 20 & more! Via @LibertyPods http://t.co/HEbrGbrjmU
— John Barchard (@JohnBarchard) April 9, 2015
Nice find Tommy, looks like a Beast! Awesome that he played BBall 4 years too.. not a lot of wear and tear on him, very instinctive it seems as well, highlights will do that do a guy tho.. but looks like a nice later rounder..
still, the first video wasn’t a highlight video, the physicality doesn’t go away. Still no idea if he’s got the chops to play safety, or if Philly has the coaching to pull it off. We aren’t exactly known for getting the most out of our secondary talent.
fortunately we have a new coach, maybe he can do a better job with the DB’s..didnt we get the coach from Denver? he worked with Talib, and helped develop two decent young DBs, Chris Harris and whats his name, the safety we didnt go after in free agency from denver, whats his name damn it?
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Fortunately we dont have to worry about half of our starting secondary. Malcolm and Byron will be better then any safety and CB we had since Dawk and Shelden/Assante…
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if Walter Thurmond can stay healthy, I could see him being one of the steals of our offseason. “IF HE STAYS HEALTHY” unfortunately is a MAJOR QUESTION……This kids career has been hindered by durability issues, but if for some magical reason we can keep him on the field, he could be the Steal of our offseason.. This kid was supposed to be a 2nd round talent, but fell to the 4th because of ACL surgery
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for a 5’11 CB, he has almost 33inch arms which alllows him to defend taller WR’s better then alot of the CBs under 6ft.. He is athletic, Great ball skills, and has a Knack for playmaking like Boykin(at least he used to)…. I think Nolan Carrol and Thurmond will be a heckuva battle for that starting outside spot…. What I really love is Byron, Walter, Boykin, Nolan, Jaylen are ALL capable of linning up outside and inside. This means we can even have cornerbacks shadow specific players if we want, because they cant get away from us just by moving to the slot….. Really really hoping Walter and Wolff stay helathy, I think they can be the keys to making this secondary a lot better then most people think.
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The CB film room is more talented then its been in so long… I expect the cornerback competitions this summer to be very good for our defensive development.. whoever wins the starting jobs are probably going to earn it, having beaten out some quality competition
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I strongly believe we are a starting safety play away from having the personnel in place to really be ready to grow into a top defense…of course we need guys to stay healthy for this to hold true. But at least we have some decent CB depth, and they are all versatile so we can mix and match to fill in for CBs that get injured…
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We Need to upgrade:
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1 Safety
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ILB depth(Meco cant be counted on as a backup in september)
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we Need another interior pass rusher who can rotate in for Cox or Curry as a DT when we go to our 4 man lines.
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we dont NEED a CB for this year, But we do NEED to get a quality rookie outside CB to start grooming on our bench since CB is not a position that you draft a kid and pencil him in to start right away. Draft a young outside CB now, to get him groomed and ready to start in 2016 or 17….
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Oh and we also need to find a 4th OLB/edge rusher.. we have two ballers on second contracts(BG and Brama Bull Barwin), but we need to have two OLBs on cheaper rookie contracts on the bench. MS2 needs a young running mate to grow up with, and when Barwin and BG contract expires, the young backups will be ready to sign their second contracts, and HOPEFULLY they will be good enough that we want to extend longter,,,
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It looks like we have 5 Defensive NEEDS, but its not THAT bad because a lot of it is depth need, and getting young kids in now so they can be developed to fill a NEED down the road.. Defense is coming along nicely. Its closer then people think…
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We had the 5th ranked run defense, and we will probably be better with all our puppy front 7 beasts being a year older, more experienced and stronger… and I think our improvements in coverage and getting off the field on 3rd down will be a pleasant surprise for alot of peeps
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I’m hoping the new blood helps. The way our CB’s were coached, just seemed like someone said “oh there is no face guarding penalty in the pro’s, lets try to exploit that.” It doesn’t work, play the ball please.
Right on about our secondary. Note how Jenkins started the year great, then as our coaches worked with him during the year, he actually regressed.
Yeah, Boykin regressed, the fact that when Fletcher was struggling as badly as he was and there was no one there to relieve him is terrible, and when Jaylen Watkins finally got some time, he looked like a week 1 rookie, flashes of promise but very very green, rather than a player who had been professionally tutored for the better part of a year.
I’m way down on the the secondary coaching staff to the point of irrationality, like I won’t be surprised if Cary Williams and the new Byron Maxwell and vice versa, like even a little: “what!? Byron Maxwell isn’t as good without the best coaching, scheming, and safety in the league??” But I’ll spare you the rest of my rant.
Good think we hired a new DBs coach that coached up pretty good players recently in Denver.
I like the kid, but basketball players grow up playing hours and hours of playground basketball and all that running,jumping and landing on concrete is bad for the knee’s…. but thats shouldnt effect him before he turns 30yrs old… its just a different type of wear and tear.
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I just cant make up my mind where I would prefer us playing him.
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Either way, I dont mind drafting him, but if we do draft him early, I dont want to hear fans bitch when he doesnt play as a rookie. Draft him, understanding he hasnt played much football, and that he would be an UPSIDE pick that probably wont start paying off til year 2….
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last year we spent our first rounder on a kid that was NEVER going to be ready to play as a rookie, yet our city was too dumb to understand that and they spent the year ripping the young man….
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Im fine with adding him as long as the media educates the fanbase and its understood that this isnt the type of kid you draft assuming he will provide instant gratification..
I agree with you that many players cannot be expected to come in and start. In retrospect though, I think the first round pick last year will only be vindicated if MS2 plays and plays well this year. I know the Eagles moved back and snagged another pick, but they cannot be pleased or satisfied that their first round pick barely made it onto the field. And I’m not at all writing off MS2. Based ONLY on MS2’s performance thus far, and assuming NO insight on other players a year later, I would bet Chip would go back and take Cyrus Kouandjio or Xavier Su’a-Filo instead.
not really… i mean, if MS2 doesnt play this year its going to cause a shitstorm from the fans and Media, but even if he sucks this year, he can still end up being a great pick if the “light goes on” for him the year after… Its not like if he becomes great later, fans will say, “too late, you had your chance to be great, took you too long, now we dont like you”.. fans will forget once he turns it around, Just like we did with Brandon Graham, who ended up being a pleasant surprise as a late bloomer.
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For me, Ultimately, what constitutes a good draft pick is taking a kid who grows into a player you are NOT WILLING TO LOSE when his rookie contract expires, but who also is eventually playing at a level worthy of his draft selection.. for example, we spent a first round pick on Marcus, if he grows into a player we want to extend longterm, but Only as a cheaper Backup depth player, THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH for a first round investment… so its not totally a case of just becoming someone we extend. You need to become someone we extend playing a role thats worthy of where you were drafted…
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Ideally, the normal developmental curve is, by halfway thru the rookie season you should start getting some small amount situational snaps during the second half of the season… By year two you should be playing a pretty significant role, at least rotating in for 33% of the snaps (similar to the role BG played last year), but by year 3 you should be starting and ready to take the league by storm…. but every young player is different, they all vary in experience levels. One first round pick may have played that position his entire life, and then the next 1st round pick was just moved to this position a couple years ago like Marcus
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Marcus is going to play a role this year. Im pretty certain about that… We could have already used his athleticism in coverage last year if we needed to, but at OLB, not Inside where he never played… most of why he didnt play was lack of strength, which is pretty common for the OLB transitioning to the NFL..
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with improved strength, he can start having success at setting the edge, and when he can handle setting the edge, we will see him play a consistent role..
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OLB IS NOT a position where you just play two starters the entire time. You need edge rushers to rotate in, playing at the very least 3 EDGE rushers in Each game, like we did last year… OLB is one of the most crucial positions on a football team and free agency has ended and we are looking at Marcus as the inside track to the #3 OLB spot… that has to be viewed as some type of vote of confidence for Marcus, No? especially since the #3 OLB spot is a position that you NEED to give snaps to in each game…
99.9% agree. I just don’t think you want to spend 1st-round capital on a player that needs that long to develop. And I know what your response will be: he wouldn’t have been there in round 2. Even if he breaks out in year 3, that is too much time, money and games in the can, given the caliber of talent every year. I agree whole-heartedly that OLB is up there with QB in terms of importance, but look how many picks have been wasted on 1st-round QB? Those are games nobody can get back. I hope your logic holds, that strength work will get Smith on the field this year. I will be ecstatic. But I still believe that Chip expected more.
There was a guy drafted as a LB a few years ago. His team kept trying to coach him as a LB for TWO YEARS. then they tried him out as a Defensive Tackle.
His stats
*9× Pro Bowl selection (1977, 1978, 1979, 1980,1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985)
*9× First-Team All-Pro selection (1977, 1978 ,1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985)
*3× NFC Champion (1975, 1977, 1978)
*Super Bowl champion (XII)
*1978 Co-Super Bowl MVP
*Ed Block Courage Award (1988)
**Outland Trophy (1974)
*Lombardi Award (1974)
*UPI Lineman of the Year (1974)
**2× All-American (1973, 1974)
*NFL 1980s All-Decade Team
Pro Football Hall of Fame (1994)
His name was Randy White.Too bad he was a CryBoy.
as if what some other player did has anything to do with a MS2 conversation… good one, congrats, I see you learned how to work the “google”… thanks for the valuable contribution smh
Don’t think that is the case here. White was NFL-ready, but his coach wanted to maximize his productivity. MSII has not been on the field much because he wasn’t NFL-ready. I would love to see Smith tear it up at some point, but he’s got to get on the field first.
I agree with what you are saying besides one thing. He will probably be the guy behind Graham just like Graham last year was behind Cole, but I don’t think it will nearly be the same role. Graham came in when Cole went out to purely rush the passer. Smith has the ability to offer alot more then that due to his athleticism and ability to play in space. I think it’s going to be very interesting how he is used, and it will differ then how BG was used last year at times. If Smith improves it won’t surprise me to see him in there more then just Graham is tired time to put Smith in. He may very well have certain packages in which he plays instead of BG.
“free agency has ended and we are looking at Marcus as the inside track
to the #3 OLB spot… that has to be viewed as some type of vote of
confidence for Marcus, No?”
Well, they are checking out edge rushers pre draft. Not just one or two, a lot. And prospects who will go early. And checking out usually means interest in the Kelly era.
I would love if Kelly is confident about Marcus. I do think your first round pick a year ago should be able to handle 30 percent of the snaps in year 2. I am patient with Rookies, but first back-up with 30 percent of the snaps isn’t too much to ask for, imo, from a 1st rounder in year 2.
I have a bad feeling we will draft an edge rusher early. We had this discussion a few weeks ago. I totally hope you’re right about the confidence in Marcus, I just don’t think that’s the case.
Yeah but I don’t think that wear and tear is really as extensive as football’s. Hence why you see NBA players play their sport alot longer then football players. Also, all these players in the NFL are great athletes first. I bet the large majority of them played basketball ALOT when they were younger. I really don’t buy the basketball wear and tear will affect them somehow. Not to mention when Rollins played in all phases of school it wasn’t on concrete. It was on a wooden Bball court. Alot more forgiving then concrete.
Later rounder? He is a 2nd round guy.
Might make him a candidate for our annual raw player bust pick.
Technically any pick can be a candidate for our annual bust pick. The kid shows undeniable talent and the ability to learn quickly. While new I don’t think he is THAT raw. Give him a good DB coach and I think he can pick things up at an exceptional level. Our new DB coach has a very good record with the success of his players.
That’s the standard argument for reaching for raw, inexperienced players.
It’s also a fact. I think there is a reason why people live and breathe football have him in the 2nd round. Me, and alot of other people will side with their logic instead of your opinion, because you don’t seem to have any hard logic or evidence that backs your misguided opinion up.
Sounds more like Danny Watkins, Curtis Marsh, Marcus Smith still learning position type
Watkins just didn’t have the mindset for pro football, Curtis Marsh did not have Rollins talent nor did he show it on the field. I think comparing Rollins to Smith is very unfair.
Weird, the only argument I ever heard for taking Marsh was he was very talented.
He had very good physical attributes. He was talented in the fact he played RB and switched over to CB. That’s different then CB to S. There is a reason he was considered a gamble in the 3rd round. I never said Marsh wasn’t talented. I said Rollins is more talented. Please don’t be a child and twist my words.
thot the same thing – he’s got some beast mode! damn, pull this story down and keep him under the radar .. we wont care if CK draft’s him too high
As a diehard fan of defensive football, I wont ever complain about drafting a defender in the first 3 rounds. But I would prefer using our earlier draft picks to address the trenches: OL and Front 7….. especially since I dont view DB’s as much of an immediate need as most people… If we had to set our roster today, I would expect a much improved secondary. For me our DB needs are more about depth and getting young players on the bench to start developing behind all our free agent veteran acquisitions…. Obviously we can make an argument for NEEDING a starting safety, but A) I hate rookie DB’s, and B) I think its extremely dysfunctional to go into a draft not only looking for a good safety, but looking for a safety you think is polished enough to immediately start in the NFL: If I dont believe in drafting a rookie, and immediately penciling him in to start the way we did with Casey Mathews, how can I look at the draft as needing to find a starting Safety? Dont care how good the safety is that we draft, I dont care how high we draft him, in my mind I will assume Wolff and Jaylen watkins will be competing for that spot…maybe a rookie Safety can be ready to take that spot over after the bye week, but I dont go into a draft hoping we can get a safety that can start next year. You draft the kid you think your coaching staff can grow into the best player 3-4 years down the road. if you start eliminating high upside Prospects because they arent polished enough to start right away, thats a highly dysfunctional way of drafting, because you will make the talent pool even smaller, and its already a poor safety class…
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If I dont expect to Draft a DB that can start for us in september, then I can wait to draft a DB til rounds 3, 4, or 5…. a few positions like Guard and RB give you good odds of finding a kid that can start right away, but I dont view the DB positions as plug and play types.. If the DB you draft happens to handle the transition immediately with ease, thats a bonus..
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I also believe in dumping your top picks into the battle of the trenches, OL with the exception of the Guard position, i think you can get good Guards later… So if we are going to get a Guard early, I NEED him to also project as our eventual Tackle… If the Guard has NO CHANCE in becoming our Tackle of the future, then Id rather wait til the mid rounds for a Guard….. but Guys like Fisher, Clemmings who can play both, are the types I would look to draft early on,..
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If we go defense in round 1, I would hope its someone who can bolster the battle of the Trenches like Bud Dupree(wishful thinking), or Jordan Phillips.. If we cant get a Beast addition to our front 7, then I hope we bolster the OL depth… The stronger, the more dominant we are in the trenches, the easier it will be for our skill positions and Defensive Backs to be successful
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Only way I want a defensive Back in the top 50 is if he is graded a tier above everyone else thats available when we pick
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The Only position I would draft early outside of the trenches if i had my way is WR, because It can help out our QB who we NEED to build back up, and because WR’s are coming to the NFL so polished, that I think the WR bust rate will be lower then ever, especially for coaches who know exactly what they are looking for in WR’s like chip
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This is just preference, not a strict blueprint by any means… Like I said, when its our turn to pick, if a DB is rated above the rest, take the DB…… I just dont view drafting a DB as filling the immediate safety need we all talk about… No matter who we draft, my money would be on Earl Wolff to win the job, assuming the injury is finally behind him since we finally know whats really wrong with him,,, assuming he has taken mental reps and knows the defense like the backof his hand by now……
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but I like Rollins, certainly wouldnt mind welcoming him to Birdville..
“But I would prefer using our earlier draft picks to address the trenches: OL and Front 7”
I agree with O-Line, but why Front 7? Just because they are the, philosophically speaking, most important positions after QB, I don’t think you should add positions of strenght on the roster early while you have needs elsewhere. Even if you say our starting Safety in September is on the roster, doesn’t mean the Safety position doesn’t have a lack of talent. And we need a #2/3/4 WR also.
We will have a good D-Line next year. You probably will have to replace Curry next year, but you can do that next year. He gives you pass rush on 3rd down and that’s valuable, but it’s not like he’s a starter or sees a ton of snaps. You can add an interior pass rusher next year. Hart should be able to spell Cox for 10-15 percent of the snaps and you don’t want to play Cox less. Allen is a nice back-up at nose for Logan.
You are the biggest MS2 fan on this board. We have our starting OLBs under contract for the next few years. If you draft OLB early, you won’t get much contribution from him or MS2 and you should expect contribution from early picks.
And we don’t need to talk about ILBs. If Kendricks gets traded, and we all hope not, it’s becomes a position of need again, especially down the road. But as it stands right now, Kendricks is on the roster and we are filled with ILBs.
Why do we seemingly always play the Jets in the preseason? Silly thing to get hung up on I know, but just seems strange….
always week 4, teams try not to travel far in the last week of preseason. We have a nice arrangement with the Jets that is mutually beneficial to that end.
Thanks for the info, makes sense
Geographical convenience?
So Troy P. Retired today. Great player. One of the articles on PFT is about how he might have to wait to get in the hall. It then goes on to say how him and Reed were a cut above Dawkins. I’m not just being an Eagles homer here, but it does upset me because I don’t think that’s true. Dawkins has more Int, FF, tackles, and sacks then Troy. Besides Int Dawkins leads even Reed in all categorys. Add to the fact that he was a big hitter just like them, and was also FAR more durable then both of them. Dawkins really changed the way safety was played.
They just have the hardware. But I agree, Dawk was a pro bowler till the end, those guys dropped off badly.
WOW, Thats crazy talk…… You may get me to agree that they are AS GOOD as Dawk, but there is no way I think there is a modern day Safety that is BETTER….. The things he used to do at that position were one of the greatest joys of ever watching eagles football
It’s a shame. I really don’t know how Troy could be listed as better. It’s a shame because outside of Eagles nation that’s a widely believed thought. Troy because his hair and knack for making a remarkable looking play now and then received far more national media attention. Dawkins numbers are really amazing for a safety. 26 sacks!! Most NFL DL don’t get that in their career.
Still think Dawkins will be in the hall of fame..
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Id give anything for a time machine trip to go back and get to see Dawk play in person one more time in his prime…
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By far, my favorite things about the Andy Reid era were getting to watch Dawkins and Trotter, 1 year of T.O and the Wizard of westbrook… To this day Im so thankful for getting to see his career. special special player..
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IMO he was better then Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor, todays best,…
It is probably to be expected that the guys with rings get more glory than the plodders who just plain master their position. I cannot imagine BD not going to the Hall. His light burned hot.
Just the history of the hall shows that it is not easy to get in as a safety.
I agree on Dawk, but they have the rings and media attention and they did play very well during those playoff runs for their teams…if there is one weakness about Dawk, it is his and the defense’s performances in the big games outside of the 2004 NFCCG where the whole team played well….as the defense’s leader, Dawk takes a hit on that front…I can also still see him falling down in the end zone as the WR from Carolina catches the TD…
I guess that is true. If you really dig in to it though durring those playoff games the D was put in horrible situations by the offense. I guess an outsider won’t see or recognize that though.
I think you’re reaching to bash Troy P, but I do not care if Troy makes the HOF…
On Dawk and the Eagles D, I think blaming everything on the offense is weak and deflecting….besides 2004 when the D and Dawk really did step up and, along with the O playing well, did help us handle the Falcons easily, the defense, including Dawk, did not make many game changing plays or hold up their end of the bargain consistently…
Dawk was revolutionary in many ways, combining coverage and regular S duties with run stuffing and blitzing skills…he is one of my favorite players and I think should be a HOFer, but one reason he is overlooked at times is because in most of those big games he and/or the defense he led did not perform at a high level which was one of many reasons the Eagles never won the SB during that era.
To me, it is ok to admit Dawk was human and did not always play well; no HOFer is perfect or played well every game.
I think you are misunderstanding me or I did not state my opinion correctly. I am in no way blaming it all on the offense. The D played a part as well as did Dawkins. I think Troy is a GREAT player. I just think Dawkins was better. I was just simply comparing Dawks leadership qualities to the lack of Troys. What I said regarding Troys leadership is not made up, those are facts. There was a few articles written over the years that showed how his freelancing at times really did hurt the D. I’ll say again he was a GREAT player, a HOF player but I think alot of the national media thinks he is better then certain player (Dawkins) in which he really wasn’t.
who are the eagles going to joint practice with? Id guess.. Bmore since its close… that might be all though.. id like them to practice with GB and the Colts too though.. but GB in NFC so maybe colts would link up w them as well.
Baltimore Head coach John Harbaugh was talking shit to the media about Chip on Monday, running his mouth about how they also have great sports science “but that they dont go around self promoting their sports science like some people(cough cough chip)… which is funny because if it were up to chip, he probably wouldnt tell us a damn thing about his sports science, but everyone always asks him
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MY money would be on them having Joint Practices with someone like the Colts, or Steelers, with Kansas City as my dark horse pick…..
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No NFC contenders like GB… doubt they will do it with a team they play next year like Pats, Jets,Bills or dolphins…
They wouldn’t do joint practices with a team unless they are playing them in the preseason as was reported multiple places, so no stealers or KC
Thats why I went with the colts as my best odds… but they only have 4 preseason games, if none of those teams agree, what would they do, not have joint practice for a year, or try to set something up with another team?…..
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Dont some teams do joint practices and then spend the last day of practice Scrimmaging each other when its not a joint practice with a team they play at the end of the week?
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you could still work something out if you felt its THAT valuable, you would just have to switch the timing of it… You would have to do it before the preseason games start…..instead of doing it during one of the weeks of the preseason..
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I know that preferably we do it during a the preseason with a team we are playing at the end of the week, i just dont know what happens if they cant work it out with one of the 4 teams?
pretty sure Chip said they will see if any of the teams they have in preseason want to join up for a practice… its just worked out in the past he said but isnt something that will take place every year, since he cant be sure the teams they are playing preseason will want to do such a thing. he does like doing it though, if the other coaches are interested.
thanks boys..
From my understanding, Chip has specifically mentioned he would be open to joint practiced with a team on their preseason schedule. I don’t think he would be open to the wasted time of moving practice or sharing his practices with a team outside of that context because it reduces the reps for his players and changes the nature of his high tempo approach. If he felt that joint practices were essential, he would have done it with more teams than just the patriots (pats doing with more than 1 team per year). It’s just not efficient unless you are already playing the team…
Colts may be a favorite. Ryan Grigson still knows a few folks at NovaCare Centre, and I bet Chip would love to get his re-tooled D to get a closeup look at another HOF QB.
Curious to see what side of the field will be harder to throw on this year since we use a Right and Left safety instead of strong and Free?
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Will the Right side be our strength with our best Corner Maxwell, with a young safety providing support(wolff,watkins or rookie)?
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or will the Left side be harder to throw on with our Best Safety, the crafty, talented, cerebral Jenkins providing support to Walter or Nolan?
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which side of the field will be our strength in coverage?
cant get over how dirty this defense would be had McCourty decided to leave the Patriots… He was the missing link of a top ranked defense.
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would have been cool to line up with:
Maxwell…..McCourty…..Jenkins…..Thurmond
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Thats a starting secondary of all RECENT SB winners, who started for their teams the year they won the SB…
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Having McCourty providing over the top help for Byron Maxwell would be “Alcataraz” aka WR LOCK DOWN, Maximum Security… sucks that we cant see Malcolm and Byron play on the same side.
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nstead Maxwell will have a young Safety behind him, so instead of McCourty or jenkins helping Maxwell, Maxwell will be helping out Jaylen or Earl, making their lives easier because he can handle his own and wont have to count on the safety support as much as Cary Williams had to……
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Sucks that Cary was on the opposite side of Jenkins. I think Cary with jenkins behind him could have been solid on one half of the field…. of course letting Nate Allen help Bradley Fletcher would have been a nightmare..
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Curious to see who will end up starting for us at safety this year, Its basically a battle of hungry young players: wolff, watkins, Reynolds, Couplin, Rookie?
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My best case scenario is Wolff playing 16 games. Not sure how realistic that is, but it has to be more realistic then in the past when we were misdiagnosing him. At least they finally found out what was wrong with him, and gave him the proper treatment… Can anyone speak on his injury? Lesions? hard to overcome/treatable? risk of it happening again later in his career?
His pro day measurables are off the charts for a safety, 6.52 three cone and 4.49 forty. I say give him a shot
certainly cant hurt…
talking about converting basketball players, and I found this nugget just posted on rotoworld about a kid who took a similar path to Q-rollins:
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“The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel’s Tyler Dunne calls second-year CB Demetri Goodson the Packers’ “best-kept secret.”
Goodson was last year’s 197th overall pick and is already 26 (in June). The 5-foot-11, 197-pounder played college basketball at Gonzaga before taking up football at Baylor. Mike Goodson’s younger brother, Demetri runs 4.52 to go with a 37-inch vertical. With Tramon Williams and Davon House gone via free agency, Goodson has a chance for a major role after playing zero snaps as a rookie.”-roto
Kempski wrote that if we sit at 20, he thinks the pick could be the UConn CB. What do you all think of that?
Wouldn’t be totally apposed to that happening as long as we get a -o-lineman in one of the top rounds.
Jimmy Bama nugget.
https://twitter.com/JimmyKempski/status/586237220778020864
What u tryin to say OD? HMMMM?????
I still can’t get passed the Jimmy has a nugget part.
…
So 1) Eagles have had visits that are slam dunks round 1(obviously)
or 2) Eagles will be making a trade to get 2 first rounders?
I kind of feel this way every year, but to me the strength of this draft (value-wise) appears to be in the 2nd-3rd rounds. Whereas last year we had 6 guys on our radar at 22 all of whom ended up getting picked earlier, this year –other than that one Hawaiian guy who’s supposed to go pretty early– most of the players we appear to be honing in on would feel like reaches at 20. If the value isn’t right for Mariota, and we still have our 1st, a trade back, combined with the possibility of moving a Kendricks, Boykin, etc. could leave us with a lot of ammunition to pepper that early 2nd to mid-3rd range. Give me any 4 of B.Jones, Rowe, Rollins, K.Johnson, S.Anthony, McKinney, Fisher, Marpet, Agholor, Perriman, Dupree, Odighizuwa, D.Hunter, Hundley or Petty, and I’ll be a value-happy layman.
I think this is how we all feel unless you have a really good pick. Picking 20 naturally feels lukewarm. It is. When we picked 4th we didn’t think the strength of the draft was 3rd round.
I mean, it varies year to year. Picking 4th it’s always going to feel like you’re more in control of your own destiny, because you are. But even before the 2013 draft, picking that high still wasn’t all that comforting, as it was a really weak top of the draft. Retrospectively, it looks even worse. A top 10 of: Eric Fisher, Luke Joeckel, Dion Jordan, Lane Johnson, Ezekiel Ansah, Barkevious Mingo, Jonathan Cooper, Tavon Austin, Dee Milliner, Chance Warmack? Gross.
Last year, going into the draft I think most of us, as well as the Eagles’ braintrust, were pretty confident that one of our six targets (Barr, Beckham, Cooks, Fuller, Clinton-Dix and Mosley) would fall. It didn’t turn out that way, but I’m pretty confident our draft board had more 1st round grades on it than it does this year. Here’s to hoping this year’s Manziel (whoever that is) falls to our pick, and someone who covets him offers us a decent return to drop back 15 or so picks.
We definitely picked the wrong year to suck. That was evident even at the draft.
So…… Trade back?
Reach.
exactly just means he is going to trade up for 3rd round talent.
Yes.
Or trade up.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the Eagles went back-to-back DBs in the 1st and 2nd round. WRs tend to drop and you can get a good one in the 3rd round. Ideally they’d take an OL higher but most of the guys they’ve been looking at are 4th/5th round types.
I thought they took a look at Fisher, and Marpet. IDK, maybe I’m wrong.
That would shock the hell out of me. DB in the first is always a hard sell, and we have a stable of DB’s currently. OL and WR – both needs and both offering some promising talent. A good WR can be gotten in a later round, but one with greatness potential may be there only in the first.
Like this post a lot. Would be happy with Round 1: Fisher/Clemmings, 2: Rollins, 3: Conley
I’d but that for a dollar.
I remain convinced getting one of these recent conversion prospects in the 2nd is a more managed risk than in the first. The OL value at 20 should be good and is no secret,, though I like the mid-first guys they haven’t worked out better.
Byron Jones and Rollins become more risky as they climb into the 1st. I was screaming against Dion Jordan and Mingo.. a guy who hasn’t excelled consistently in college is not imho worth a first. I was against Jason Pierre-Paul, mind you, but he was an Division I All-American as a junior.
I remember Tommy getting excited about the UDFA signing of Ced Thornton, no other columnist/ blogger mentioned it.
when you really think about what the eagles need, OL (big time), DB’s Wr’s, there is no way it makes sense to give up picks and great players to acquire a rookie qb. no way it makes sense at all. especially since we have a capable QB on the roster now.
I understand the excitement for fans about getting MM for Kelly’s offense but it’s not the end all can’t win without him type of thing.
if we don’t’ bolster the OL and keep our young bad ass D linemen and Kendricks we can’t win anyway.
I’m getting my Bradford jersey as soon as they start selling them, and then flipping it to my friend for his Jets MAriotta jersey and calling it a day.
tons of playoff teams w/out franchise QBs. Colts were in AFC champs with no running back, no pass rusher, and a mediocre secondary.
I see what you are saying. if you have someone like LUCK you need less everywhere else?
MM is no Andrew luck though right?
he is if ck says he is.
I don’t think he thinks that or anyone else does for that matter, do you?
Arm talent probably not, but mentally he’s called him Peyton Manning, said he’s the best player he’s ever coached, etc. that could all be non-sense but he’s put himself in a position to go get him so you gotta think it’s not all smoke and mirrors.
I don’t get how manning can be so good with such a subpar arm and zero mobility. its really crazy.
The amount of time Peyton puts into film study is ridiculous. More times than not he knows exactly where to go before he snaps the ball. He’s always had a pretty solid Oline to keep him protected.
He didn’t always have a noodle arm…he is what, 39?
I thought he had a laser rocket arm. That’s what that one commercial from about ten years ago said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G0loI0Jn5M
I would love Jones and Rollins in round one and two
I think that is my ideal if we stay put with those picks
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 10 (STL): Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon (A+)
Round 3 Pick 32 (N.E.): Eric Rowe, CB/FS, Utah (B)
Round 4 Pick 2 (N.E.): Cedric Ogbuehi, OT, Texas A&M (A)
Round 4 Pick 14: Chris Conley, WR, Georgia (B)
Round 5 Pick 9: Jeremiah Poutasi, OT/OG, Utah (C-)
Round 6 Pick 20: Ben Beckwith, OG, Mississippi State (C+)
Round 7 Pick 20: David Mayo, ILB, Texas State (F)
….meh. First time i used the website. Pretty neat though.
So much fun.
Is anyone else starting to see how much better of a prospect Jameis Winston is than Marcus Mariota?
people are saying the opposite now though I thought.
he throws a lot of INT’s and apparently is a problem off the field?
I agree though he is more NFL ready for sure.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say he’s “much better”. Winston’s only advantages on Mariota are that he played under center and came from a pro style offense. Besides that I don’t see a big discrepancy in the 2. Winston throws too many ints, he is an absolute nightmare off the field, and is just a flamboyant jackass. Mariota on the other hand was a model kid, quiet and very professional. He didn’t come from the pro style offense like Winston but I don’t see either one being much better then the other.
The arm talent isn’t comparable at all. Winston’s arm is in a whole other league than Mariota’s. Not to mention the spread offense Mariota ran typically left WRs wide open for some easy completions.
I think you’re exaggerating the Oregon scheme. Yeah there are more easy reads for Mariota than there were for Winston, but after watching 7 Oregon games last year, I saw Mariota quickly go through multiple reads every game several times and he generally did well at this. This is the aspect of the game where he made the biggest leap from 2013 to 2014. If there is a knock on Mariota, it’s inconsistent footwork, not the mental side of the game.
On football talent alone, Jameis is far more advanced. Much stronger arm, reads defenses pre-snap, calls out protections. People are comparing his football IQ to Peyton.
He threw a lot of INTs this year because he throws with anticipation, something we Eagles fan don’t get to see. The slightest difference in the route between what Jameis’ Freshman receivers (outside of Greene and O’Leary) would run could make the difference between a reception and interception. Lot of INTs also came off the receivers hands.
Off the field, it’s a whole other story.
comparing someone’s football IQ to Peyton seems ridiculous. Yes, I know Chip compared MM to Peyton too. But shouldn’t they first be compared to a mid-tier starting NFL QB?
Peyton now is prob 100x higher football IQ than Peyton coming out of TE. So how can a college QB be compared to that?
I think we are taking the comparison too literally. I don’t think anyone assumes Jameis is gonna be able to step on the field Day One and be Peyton. Cerebrally, people see similarities. His ability to absorb and understand concepts. Understanding of schemes, coverages, blitzes, etc.
Jameis came into those Elite 11 camps and had the offense down in two days. Faster than any QB they’ve seen go through there, including Andrew Luck. So no, I don’t think the comparison is ridiculous when viewed through that lens.
The more I’ve watched, the more I keep coming back to “Geno Smith with more mobility.” And I was never a fan of Geno’s.
How good do you feel about handing Jameis Winston a $15,000,000 signing bonus this summer?
Nope.
Not impressed with Fat FSU Jay Cutler?
no probably already knew that winston was much better.
Nah.
Not fair, you get 5 upvotes for just saying ‘Nope’.
Here you go Sean. I threw you an upvote too! There is nothing better than a little validation from Internet strangers.
You didn’t exactly ask a nuanced question.
There seems to be some kind of story about Chip and LeSean and punching going around twitter – but i have no idea what the source is or what the hell is going on. Can anyone fill me in – feel like i am missing a first half of a conversation….
The source is a high school student.
An “inside source” at NFL films says they have it on tape from the season finale.
Actually what McCoy said -seeing as he’s a star -was “To the moon, Chip! To the moon!”
that would mean he wouldn’t have been surprised by the trade then no?
It is interesting how your opinion changes week to week in the draft process. 2 weeks ago i wanted first 3 picks to be on offence and 2 of those to be OL, because it is the most important position in the chip kelly offence and if we can build a young dominant unit that will give us success for the next 3-5 years.
However i am starting to do a 180, having watched some more of the DB’s i am starting to want to go after secondary targets early. I think CB is a bigger need than people think – we have no no.2 CB signed for 2016, and none of the current players (Carrol, Thurmond, Boykin) have the kind of size and skills we want long term. Even if one of the 3 excels this year are we wanting to pay 8-10mil next year to retain them? CB’s need a year to get ready for the NFL normally so bringing someone in and developing them this year is a real important need.
Finding a true quality CB would be transformative for this defence – we have all the other building blocks but need a top class CB alongside Maxwell. If our CB’s can keep a WR covered those 0.75seconds longer it allows our flexible and multi talented to get to the QB consistently, forcing quicker route concepts, cutting down big plays and allowing you to get away with weaker secondary play and bringing our potentially special LB crew more into the game.
My dream draft at the moment is Byron Jones in the 1st and Rollins in the 2nd as our playmaking Safety.
We need OL long term – but i think we can last 1 year without someone being ready to contribute straight away, so we can look at injured or project players mid to late rounds who we like long term but do not need this year. WR is such a deep group – i love Dres Anderson and Kenny Ball as mid to late round prospects who can do what chip wants at WR. The Eagles seem to be able to find OL and WR prospects well and make them work so i would rather trust the scouts to find players in the late rounds in those positions and to spend premium resources on DB’s.
Very few teasm have 4 all Pro Bowl DBs. We have 3 pro bowl calibur LBs, 2 pro bowl calibur DL, a pro bowl calibur outside CB and a decent safety. Given the offense i feel like that should be good enough.
Totally agree i am being greedy, the reality is even with a hodgepodge secondary our defence has been solid the last 2 years considering the pressure our offence puts it under.
However i want to feel like if we are playing with a 4 point lead with 2 mins left and they have the ball on their 20yard line to expect to win the game – rather than praying for a miracle like how it has felt the last 4-5 years!
yeah that’s totally true hard to have any faith in crunch time defense
I think I get where you’re coming from. Our pass D, particularly trying to preserve slim leads, has been less than stellar. I think this Rollins kid could be a nice fit at FS. I think Jalen Collins possesses the ideal measurables for CB in Kelly’s D. What I don’t expect is he’ll be available after round 1 and he may be gone by the time we pick. However it shakes out, Rollins should be available, and that’s where we really need the help. Outside of a promising FS prospect, I don’t see any DB coming in and lighting it up in year one. Hopefully our re-tooled offense will make the pressure-filled passing D less of an issue.
The 2 reasons we fell apart last year were due to Oline and secondary issues. The secondary has been addressed pretty adequately. Our Oline while talented can go from a strength to a real weakness again this year. We can’t afford that. We are trying to be a running team and we need good Oline play for that. Not to mention we have a talented but extremely fragile QB. I think it is extremely important that Oline gets attention early in this draft. I understand after this year we don’t have a CB to play next to Maxwell. We after this year if we don’t get good young Olinemen we are going to have a bunch of senior citizens playing OL at a few positions. OL is definitely the most pressing need that requires attention during this draft.
Considering how much the safety position sucks in the NFL; why not?
I’m not sure if Rollins is worth the pick at 20, but in a trade-down he could be a great prospect to add to the mix.
And he better not be “here to break records” while refusing a trade to another team. Or pop up in a big at bat. Or swing first pitch when he needs to work the count. Or get benched for not running out a ground ball.
Rollins is in my opinion is not the 20th pick in this draft. There are players with as much upside and higher flaws available. Would love him as a player you could target in the early 40’s however. Ideal situation is trade down to 26-28 for a 3rd, then swing around and use it to trade up to 40th pick in the 2nd and maybe grab a 5th/6th round pick.
I’m all about the trade down and still get my guy.
Rollins is more of if he is there at 52 target. I think anything before that he is a reach and you only take him at 52 if you don’t like anyone else better. The guy is a project.
I don’t want him in the first. He will definitely be there when the 2nd round starts, but I doubt he lasts untill 52. I am higher on him then some, I wouldn’t mind trading up in the 2nd to get him.
Said earlier that most of the linemen the Eagles have been looking at were day 3 picks. In terms of having private workouts. We’ve been to just about every pro day and of course there are top-tier linemen there. Well, now it’s been reported that we had T/G La’el Collins in for a pre-draft visit. I’d love to get him but I don’t see him dropping to 20.
If he drops to 20 he is a no brainer. I don’t think we would trade up for him though.
That’s interesting. If so, do you think that means they like the value more in Rd. 3?
I think it may be a case of the fact that it’s known what the big time OL in this draft are about so they are doing extra work to find out about the non big names. Could be wrong.
I’m starting to stalk Kenny Bell. D3 is all over him and Bell was in a great interview yesterday on Sirius.
Round 1 Pick 20: Alvin Dupree, DE/OLB, Kentucky (A+)
Round 2 Pick 26 (BALT): Ali Marpet, OG, Hobart & William Smith (B+)
Round 3 Pick 20: Nelson Agholor, WR, Southern California (A+)
Round 4 Pick 14: Jesse James, TE, Penn State (A)
Round 4 Pick 23 (BALT): Kenny Bell, WR, Nebraska (B+)
Round 5 Pick 9: Clayton Geathers, SS, UCF (A)
Round 5 Pick 20: Robert Myers, OG/OT, Tennessee State (B-)
Round 6 Pick 20: Ladarius Gunter, CB, Miami (Fla.) (A)
Round 7 Pick 20: Trey Williams, RB, Texas A&M (B)
Or this one if you’re down with Mariota
Round 1 Pick 6 (NYJ): Marcus Mariota, QB, Oregon (A+)
Round 2 Pick 20: Byron Jones, CB, Connecticut (B+)
Round 3 Pick 20: Donovan Smith, OT, Penn State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 14: Jesse James, TE, Penn State (A)
Round 5 Pick 9: Kenny Bell, WR, Nebraska (A)
Round 5 Pick 20: Robert Myers, OG/OT, Tennessee State (B-)
Round 6 Pick 20: Zach Wagenmann, DE/OLB, Montana (B-)
Round 7 Pick 20: Ryan Delaire, DE, Towson (A-)
Hey, hey, what’s going on? It’s been awhile since I popped in here. Want to get the draft over with. Draft season is just waaaaaaaaaaaay tooooooo loooooooong, and I’m bored already.
Definitely on the boat with a 2nd round selection of Rollins, but I doubt he’d drop that far.
Bradford or MM where do you stand. Don’t just say they both suck.
Boooooored.
It’s a pretty hard decision to make, because of Bradford’s injury history. A healthy Bradford>>>>>>Mariota.
Ultimately, the issue with Mariota is that you can’t see what he’s made of before you see him hit the field (and you’ve picked and signed him already). Geno Smith was a very reasonable talented college QB, and in the NFL, he showed off a better arm and running skills than I thought he had. On most plays, Geno Smith is perfectly capable of doing some of the basics of QB’ing. He just has a tendency to make really, really, bad mistakes. With the general history of spread QB, it’s just not really the drop back that’s the issue here. It’s basically that the QB enters the league having never made refined judgment of risk. Alex Smith won’t pass into tight spaces. Geno Smith can’t see when “It’s A Trap!”. Other QB don’t maintain mechanics under stress, particularly in dealing with a pass rush, say, Andy Dalton, despite his athleticism. I.e. all the stuff that happens *after* you drop back. In the NFL, even in shotgun, this actually matters, still, given the higher level of defense quality. See where I’m going? While pro-style QBs have many of the same issues, just because the level of competition is higher, they are MORE likely to have dealt with SNAFU, and made throws in tight windows, handle the pocket, etc, etc. You don’t automatically prefer pro-style QB, lots of other things matter, but a pro-style QB that makes throws in windows, handles blitzes presnap, moves in pocket properly, etc, is going to be a strongly superior QB prospect to a spread, unless the spread QB are capable of heroics, like Cam, Vick, Culpepper, VYoung, running, throwing, whatever.
That’s why when, say, Benjamin Allbright goes…Teddy Bridgewater and Derek Carr are both better than Jameis and Marcus, you can pretty much think he’s just being full of shit. That’s also pretty much why, despite everything, it does seem likely that Tampa will pick Jameis, and that the actual gap in talent between Jameis and Marcus is bigger than the one between Andrew Luck and RGIII. Derek Carr…heh. Derek Carr ain’t saving you from nobody, and it’s taken Ryan Tannehill three years just to give you that glimmer that maybe he could. And Tannehill is a *good* spread QB prospect!
Tannehill didn’t play in a spread offense in college. Mike Sherman was his head coach. He never played in Sumlin’s Air Raid.
He didn’t really do particularly aggressive passing in the draft breakdown vids. What sort of system did Sherman run? Wouldn’t he be really rather far out of TAM’s tradition?
Pro style west coast.
Thanks for the response. Wish I really knew what chip is thinking.
David Shaw, Stanford coach, says Mariota is somewhere between Luck and RG3. He is very impressed with Mariota’s QB skills. In an interview, he specifically mentions Mariota’s ability to hit small windows, and his QB IQ.
Here is Daniel Jeremiah’s podcast that contains Shaw’s interview and comments.
http://www.nfl.com/podcasts?id=f963f32f7c659437923affa48bd1b936
This is why Mariota is better than Winston.
I saw somebody excuse Winstons ints in college because he compensated for his WRs not getting open….
So that guy must think Winston will have more open throws in the NFL or some crazy shit
Straight up Jay Cutler INT mode with Winston.
One of the biggest knocks against Aaron Rogers was that his coach, Jeff Tedford, did not run a Pro-style office. Hence, Rogers was NOT well suited for NFL offenses. This is one reason he dropped in the draft.
What is latest you hear? Buy the beer at golf and get the real scoop
Titans are still full of Sh*t. Raiders are interested but unsure; although they are not ridiculous like Titans.
Browns want to deal but won’t give #12 only #19.
If deal is done with someone, we may be temporarily hurt on D, pending end of draft or next year. That’s really all I want to say for now.
Consistent with what u have been saying the whole time.
If we could get to #6 with #20, Bradford, and Kendricks; I’d do it.
Only differences is that there was zero pressure on Rodgers to play on day 1 due to Farve’s entrenched position as the starter. We never got to see how “college” Rodgers was or wasn’t because he recieved several years of high quality coaching in Green Bay before he was called to play.
I’m not saying Mariota won’t be great, but unless you’re Peyton Manning / Andrew Luck; you would benefit from sitting and learning.
I thought he was known as a QB guru of sorts
As I recall, wasn’t Tedford considered QB poison back then? Lots of good QBs going through his program(s) but none of them had NFL success. I think Rodgers was the first to buck the trend. Can’t recall who the other QBs were.
Three different TWO ROUNDS scenarios, pick yours:
A. Byron Jones + Quinten Rollins
B. T. J. Clemmings + Nelson Agholor
C. DeVante Parker + Grasu
D. mariota
B
C. I like the idea of a large, soft-handed, ball magnet. Eagles haven’t had that for forever.
Wait, you don’t remember Na Brown?
hey we all like the idea of a large soft handed ball magnet don’t we?
A.
A.
I like either half of A + half of B possibility: Jones + Agholor or Clemmings + Rollins
I like B. But I’m crazy.
My super dream is A+B.
Trade back in 1st, get an extra 2nd.
Draft Jones with the 1st round, trade up with our own 2nd for TJ, pick Rollins with the other 2nd and trade up with our 3rd+4th for Agholor.
B – Clemmings would step right in and kill people at RG and Agholor is solid as well.
B. Agholor is closer to Parker than Grasu is to Clemmings.
#Eagles will host Stony Brook WR Adrian Coxson, according to source. 6-1, 215 lbs. 86 recs for 1,425 rec yards and 11 TD in career.
I can already hear the bad jokes when Stony drops a pass…
he;s got the right last name.
Cox + Coxson, son!
Have you seen the seventh son of the seventh son?!
Is it weird that I think Bradford will play less games than Sanchez in the next 2 years?
my man better get a long term deal… hype
..
“The Eagles are expected to sign restricted free agent LE Cedric Thornton to a long-term deal.
Thornton has a second-round tender, but the Eagles want to extend him beyond 2015. A two-down run stopper, Thornton has graded as a top-20 end at Pro Football Focus the last two seasons. Thornton turns 27 in June.”-roto
,,
they better pay him, couldnt happen to a better dude…
I like Thornton but I think extending him versus extending Curry is an either/or deal.
not sure about that… two very different roles…. and we are weak where curry is strong… Curry and Cox are our interior pass rushers when we go to our 4man line on 3rd down… There is a major drop off from them, to their backups… actually there is such a big drop off that Im not even sure who their backups are projected to be..
..
Curry is going to be a very difficult deal to get done. But he will work with us as much as he can to stay..
,,
If we extend vinny,. dont be surprised if its a lucrative 2 or 3 year deal, instead of the 4-5 yr deal with 17-20 in guarantees he can get on the open market….but im certainly nervous about the vinny situation
I think they’ll play it the same way they played bg. Reasonable deal but wouldn’t be surprised if he tests the market.
yup… good chance his agent is going to insist on dipping his toe in the open market….
*Don’t get mad*
In a deep draft, an extra 2nd rounder isn’t bad compensation if it happens. I like Ced, but if we nab a player with better skill (not the same position tho), it might not be that bad.
trade quality young players for unknown draft picks?… no thanks…..fortunately I think our coach isnt as frivelous as fans are with wanting to trade away quality young players…
.,,.
im going to need more then a made up rumor by a media hack to start assuming we are pissing away quality young eagles
..
lol the goal of the draft is to hit on young talent.. what god is hitting on young talent if a year later you want to trade it away? lol
..
when Cad signs his extension it means he wont be traded….
I hope so. I like Ced and like to see if he makes improvement this year as well.
I don’t think anyone would be willing to give up a 2nd for Ced. I wouldn’t, if he were on another team.
Doubt its either or. Both have two different roles on this team and the job Thornton does is cheaper to sign long term, but is just as valued by the Eagles as what Curry does.
Also if you look at how the NFL/College is going. Having that 2 gap run stuff monster helps counter some of all those spread option power run teams like Ohio State/Oregon in college and what the Niners, Hawks, Eagles and Cowboys did last year
I can’t see Curry here long term. 3-4 is slowing his achievement as a pass rusher. Another team would be more likely to pay him more to leave.
We thought the same about Graham right?
Only difference being Graham had multiple opportunities to start in a 4-3 (2010 through 2012) and was hurt and/or under-productive. Curry has never been labeled a bust and doesn’t have a missing knee part.
But Graham still went and found out before he came back. Curry, at a minimum, would be wise to do the same.
Curry did zero in 2012 where we even waivered Babin and Cole was hurt.
we? no… i said BG was going NO WHERE speak for yourself
Every dog has his day.
Damn… Braman, Acho, Burton, Sproles, and Dorenbos ALL MADE ALL PRO Special Teams…. how was Maragos, Parkey and Donnie left off?
..
either way, Congrats, and way to represent one of the very best special teams I have ever seen, let alone have had the pleasure to root for.
,,
Congrats to coach Fipp
I love Kempski’s drawings and think he writes some interesting stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised at Hundley in the 1st. Really, I wouldn’t be surprised about anything. All this MM talk really has me believing that it’s a smokescreen.
Maybe not Hundley, but MM talk makes me less and less that it’s going to happen.
That would be terrible. I want no parts of Hundley.
If we draft a 2nd/3rd round QB, I think it will be Bryce Petty.
Spending a first round pick on an already super raw player to then convert them to a new position? Count me out on that. Red flags all over the place.
Sounds familiar. Didn’t we just do that?
MSII wasn’t SUPER raw, just in his pass rush skills. He could already cover and set the edge decently.
lack of strength, not being able to set the edge was the main reason he didnt get snaps last year, which isnt that uncommon for a rookie OLB
funny, you dont seem to complain when we did that with Lane…
I don’t think he is that raw. New yes, extremely raw no. He is an extremely quick learner it seems and has a true knack for the game. When you watch tape his technique really doesn’t seem that raw.
Yes he is raw., especially when you start comparing him to the rest of the DB class who has been playing football since Pee Wee. He’s a great athlete. He also played in the MAC.
He struggled at the Senior Bowl. He has all the athletic tools to be a good player, but he needs experience.
I’m pretty sure Rollins played cb in high school, so he not like he is raw raw and his tackling is the best of any cb in years and as Tommy said he is a natural on the field opposed to a guy like Collins who has zero skills but is just an athlete
Yes he is raw raw. How much technique do you think these guys learn in high school? Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have talent or isn’t gifted athletically, but he absolutely is raw.
It’s a huge jump from high school football to college, and an even bigger jump from college to the NFL.
For me raw raw is Lane Johnson who played high school QB, then college TE before playing last two years as first RT than LT.
Atleast he played college football. As a QB he had to know oline protections. As a TE he had to block. We’re talking about a PG.
It seems odd that you that you say he was raw compared to “the rest of the DB class who has been playing football since Pee Wee,” but then argue that not much technique is learned in high school. If that is the case, why bring up other players’ Pee Wee experience?
I don’t think that was proposed anywhere in the article.
“If Rollins is on the board in the 2nd round, I hope the Eagles take him.”
Jeez, there you go again, actually reading the articles before commenting on them.
I am still scarred from the last Rollins we had in town. Hopefully this guy is nothing like him.
Last time I checked Jimmy was a good Phil.
Good? One of the all time greats. Without Rollins the Phillies would have only 3 good stretches of baseball in 130 years and not 4.
There was some subtle sarcastic understatement in my post, mate.
Right on. I’m a huge fan of Jimmy and it drives me nuts when knuckle-dragging Philadelphians bash him.
Bordline HOF and played for the philly team for over 10 years? to be honest i will take that at safety at the moment!
I’ll take that at ANY position.
My scars may never heal from the time Rollins was a leader on a Phillies team that won the World Series and brought Philadelphia its only championship since 1983.
Cool story. Thanks.
No problem. I thought it would help since October 2008 was 6 1/2 years ago and you don’t seem to remember it.
http://youtu.be/94RNWpmncaM
Precisely why i don’t see Collins as versatile at all. You can’t be versatile by just being bad at another position. He has no idea how to play CB. Thanks but no thanks. I’d rather have Boykin all day.
Nice breakdown. If Eagles can get a WR or OL in the first I wouldn’t mind taking Collins in late 2nd. He’s a coaching project, but he’s got the tools.
Why would you take a guy who might make Curtis Marsh look like a refined prospect in the 2nd round?
It would depend on who else was still available, but I’m not in love w/any corners. Jones is not a first imo. If it came down in late second to Jones or Collins, I’d take the latter because he’s got much higher ceiling. Both are probably 3rd round material, so I probably go WR or OL first and the other in second, but if the other isn’t there or if Rollins is still there, I leave CB until the 3rd.
He’s got the physical tools, just not the technique. I certainly wouldn’t take him at 20 but late second to the third you would have to take a look.
wont last til the 3rd.. too much talent for coaches to work with
To me this seems like coaching.
well you happened to pick probably Collins worst game… Not a polished prospect, the team that drafts him will do so because of what they think they can grow him into…
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if you are going to take a raw kid, CB isnt a bad position to do it, since even polished rookie CB’s tend to suck, and need time to grow to handle the NFL game…
If the eagles can somehow get 2 second round picks, Rollins and Agholor would be great picks in the 2nd with Byron Jones as the 1st round pick.
Conversations with Bucs are now getting warmer! Yes! Winston’s star is falling….
I still haven’t ruled out that you are in fact Chip Kelly…
That would be the coolest thing ever.
If it includes Cox I’m going to be upset. Though Cox & McCoy would be fun to watch.
Funny…you rip GE for so called sources, yet when us trading up for Mariota a month ago was all but a done deal and we still aren’t sitting in a position to draft him, suddenly we have a new credible source?
Don’t forget that I also rip GE for spamming the board, lying, attacking other posters, being a condescending asshole, and his revisionist history.
OD has been nothing but a positive contributor, has guaranteed nothing, and brings an interesting perspective to the comments section. Show me his post where a trade up for Mariota was “all but a done deal”. No? Okay.
OregonDucker RobNE
a month ago
From what I hear tonight, there is not ink on paper. I still think it will get done. But the NFL is crazy on contracts. Nothing is certain yet.
0 Reply
Close enough when asked a direct question about MM. Go back and read the threads during Combine, and up to the start of FA. Even a post saying Todd, Shady and Foles would be part of a trade. Hell, you were involved with several of them.
I’m not denying anything with your first paragraph (which quite frankly you can be guilty of as well), and there isn’t any place for it here. My point was surrounding these “supposed” sources at every turn to get Mariota, which I don’t think is happening.
There’s a big difference between posting what you’re hearing from sources, correctly stated as just “what you’re hearing”, and stating something as unequivocal fact, based on your sources. The gap widens further when one person states very clearly that the information is not guaranteed, and the other person cries VERY loudly that this is 100% fact and anyone who disagrees is a moron.
All I’m saying is, OD’s info may be complete BS, but he’s sharing it in a way that is entertaining and inoffensive. I wish I could say the same about others with so-called “sources”.
crazy he wants to go up to pick 1.
OD, I’m sure you’ve commented on this before, but I figured nobody has watched MM as much as you. In your opinion if MM becomes an eagle what does he become. Is he Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, Kaepernick? I think anyone would give up the farm for a Luck or Rodgers, but most fo us are too unfamiliar with him to have faith he will get to that level.
KAJomo – My personal opinion is that he could become a cross between Aaron Rogers and Russel Wilson. He has Aaron Rogers potential for elusiveness (athleticism), football IQ, accuracy, and INT avoidance. Like Russel Wilson, he can extend plays and also run but in such a way that he protects himself from Vick-like injury. (Side note: David Shaw, Luck’s Stanford coach, says MM is between Luck and RG3 which is similar to my view.)
And to make it perfectly clear, I will be very upset if any Chip deal for MM is even close to a RG3-like fiasco. MM is an unproven NFL commodity that still comes with a lot of rookie uncertainty. Like Aaron Rogers he would greatly benefit from a learning period while warming pine. I really want Bradford to stay to teach MM.
I know you’d love this to happen, but I personally will be terribly upset if we give up multiple high draft picks plus our own young stars just to draft one player who’s not guaranteed to succeed in the NFL.
In fact I don’t see any way how to be competitive next season with Mariota, but still holes at OL, WR, CB and S.
Let’s say for the sake of argument that I’m right and the cost is Cox and Bradford as well as our first. You’d still have your full draft (counting Mariota as the 1st) this year and next (less thw 2nd we gave up for Bradford). But another hole at DE.
As much as I wouldn’t want to trade our best player on defense, it would at least fulfill the goals of not mortgaging the future as well as obtaining our “franchise quarterback” (if you think that’s what you’re getting).
If I am that sold that Mariota is the guy, I don’t think that’s an unreasonable cost. No team is going to trade down from 1 or 2 to 20 unless the offer is enticing. Draft value charts go out the window. It’s all “which would you rather have” from the perspective of both teams involved.
Furthermore, it meets the stated requirement of not mortgaging away the future. The only pick lost is the 2 already dealt in the Bradford deal (taking into account that you’re getting a first back for the first you’re trading away). Otherwise you have your full future draft slates.
chip talked about how when he evaluated the team after the season, it was evident that we had too much invested in the offense and not enough in the defense and that it showed in our play……. If Thats the evaluation of our coach/GM, it doesnt sit too well with me to take away our best and most important defender to improve the offense.
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Fletcher is fantastic. I think he will have a good chance to go on and have a hall of fame career and easily for almost the next decade he will be a top 5 player at his position… He is so young, we havent even seen his best ball yet. No doubt he is going to take his game to an even higher level this year which is crazy because he was flat out impressive last year..Its not just losing a great defender, Its losing a Baby defender who happens to make so many of our other defenders even better, putting them in positions to make plays off of his domination doing the dirty work..
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there will never be a prospect I would trade Fletcher for. Cox is the holy grail of draft picks. He is a grand slam pick. you go into a draft praying you find a kid like Cox…. Losing Cox would set our defense back a ton. Mariota has a nice skill set, but he is far from a lock to become one of the best 5 QBs in the NFL… Fletcher will be a top 5 gamechanger at his position that single handed transcends our defense..
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we allegedly have too much invested in the offense and not enough in the Defense, and we are going to set the defense back, by trading the player that makes everyone around him better? I always respected your opinion, but we will have to agree to disagree on this one man…
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There wont ever be a prospect that I will want enough to trade away a dominant sure thing, that has such a drastic effect on the game and our team… Prospects all come with risk… Cox is too important and comes with No risk, never missed a game,..
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maybe after he turns 28yrs old I can entertain trading him for a prospect, but before that I dont see how I could possibly be ok with that…. and i dont how convinced someone is about a QB prospect, because every top QB prospect that failed had smart people who completely believed in them. you can know a prospect inside out, but there is still some level of risk of how they will transition to the NFL…. Cox is too damn good, too damn important, to trade for any type of RISK, because there is no risk involved in Cox’s greatness…
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lets pretend MM didnt exist for a second, if we were ever going to discuss trading Fletcher Cox, we would be talking about getting Multiple first round picks in return….. I cant be ok with losing him under any circumstance.
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his greatness doesnt grow on trees.,.. Its not every day that a kid is as versatile as he is. He can lineup anywhere he wants on the DL, in ANY defense and play at an Elite Level. you can line him up at:
3-4 DE
4-3 DE
4-3 DT
3-4 NT
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nothing against Mariota in this post, it has nothing to do with MM, Fletcher Cox is the holy Grail of defensive draft picks.. hopefully once every 7-8 years we get a kid like him in the draft.. I cant be ok trading that for ANY prospect
Do you think that gets it done?
I have no way of knowing, but that’s my best guess at what it would take.
Broncos signed TE James Casey to a one-year contract.
not sure why the hell he would sign with them. He spent two years buried on our bench playing ST. So now he signs with a team that has “The Hulk” and Owen Daniels?
Buchanon says his mom told him the bill for raising him was $1 million, and she wanted it paid back right away.
“Soon after the draft, she told me that I owed her a million dollars
for raising me for the past 18 years,”
Sometimes it’s not the player’s faults….
Eh, we have no idea what their relationship is like. If my father said that to me when I graduated college I would know that it was a joke. Same if I said it to my kid.
“Buchanon, who has written a book offering cautionary tales about athletes going broke despite multimillion-dollar contracts, says that once he was drafted, his mom began to demand money.”
Buchanon wisely declined to write his mom a $1 million check, but he did buy his mom a house, which turned out to be more expensive than he expected when she also started demanding money for upkeep not only on the new house, but on her old house, which she declined to sell.
“I bought my mother a house,” he says. “I also advised her to sell the old one I grew up in when I put a new roof over her head, but my mother had other plans. Instead of selling my childhood home, she decided to rent it to my aunt. So I had to finance my mother, the budding landlord. Only this wasn’t an investment. It was an encumbrance,because I didn’t share in my mother’s profit-making scheme. For the next seven years, I continued to make mortgage and maintenance payments on both homes.”
Gotcha. I didn’t know the context.
I agree, a lot of these guys come from bad environments.
Sounds like a good guy to me. The mother…not so much!
What’s the deadline for exercising the 5 year option? We will find out soon if Cox is in the Eagles long term plans…
May 3. Kempski has a nice breakdown with a link to post grad 5th year options studies.
ttp://www.phillyvoice.com/fletcher-cox-contract-extension-fifth-year-option/
lol
Yeah I loled so much when you predicted something.
There are 2 players from the whole 2012 draft who have had their option picked up.
After the draft in May.
Mike Mayock has 8 WR’s as 1st round caliber. In order of ranking: White, Cooper, Parker, Perriman, DGB, Agholor, Dorsett and Strong. He sees White and Cooper as top 10 and Parker and Perriman as top 20. Assuming Dorsett and DGB are not on Chip’s board (size and psyche matters), Parker, or Perriman would be a great pick at 20. If they’re gone, but Nelson and West Catholic’s own Jaelen Strong are still available, I’d move back, pick up another 4th or 5th and pick whoever is still available. I know it’s probably unlikely that Chip has all of the cited 6 receivers on his board, but any of them would be #1 WR caliber.
would love to end up with Parker, Perriman, or Bud Dupree, if not, trade back….
There are only 3 WRs I would take in the 1st round round: Amari Cooper, Kevin White, and DeVante Parker.
I would trade down for every other WR.
Strong is definitely worth a first. He is the 4th best WR in the draft.
I guess that depends on the type of WR you are looking for. I think the VERY best he may become close to Boldin. He doesn’t really get much separation and I don’t see him as a WR that is going to give you many big plays compared to other WR taken in the first. His separation issue is why I think he goes early to mid second. I really like Perriman over him. I think he has the ability to become a serious weapon in this offense. There are 2 knocks on Perriman. Both I think can be worked on or due to situations in college. 1- he wasn’t a volume catcher in college. I attribute that to QB and style of O. 2- his hands, he has drops, partially due to his 9 inch hands and partially due to concentration. I don’t think he will ever become a great hands guy, but like Ertz and Mathews he can definitely improve with hard work and good coaching.
Mmm, I don’t see the separation issues. Even if he did he has an amazing catch radius. If he drops the the 2nd, Chip better go up and get him.
The separation issues show when he is playing against the better CBs in college. I know that is an obvious statement to make, but he will be facing much better in the NFL on a weekly basis. Every WR is going to have a separation issue at times, but it just shows up more with him.
I disagree. If you watch him against Marcus Peters, he gets seperation all over the place. A perfect example is the 16 yard 93rd around 2 minutes in. Peters even grabs him several times with no flags thrown.
I’ll have to check that out. Don’t get me wrong, he can create separation. It’s just over a course of a season he isn’t as consistent with it as other top prospects. I think he is a very good player, I just think Perriman has the ability to be a very dangerous player. A more rounded Mike Wallace without the personality issues.
That’s fair enough. I will have to check out more of Perriman too.
Lol, I check out Coates and Strong more, you check in on Perriman and then we will come back to this. Sounds fair enough sir.
The only game that I could watch was against NC state. The one against ECU did not load for me. I came away impressed by his easy acceleration off the line. I could not get a feel for how well he can drop his hips for hitch routes. He seemed to be a pretty good route runner, his cuts were crisp for the most part. Again, I am very impressed with his speed off the line and he burnt his defender several times with ease, unfortunately the QB was so terrible at throwing, he rarely showcased his down the field potential. The only drop issues were due to concentration. I feel like he disappeared in the game and even though he has RAC potential it wasn’t vastly apparent in the game I watched. Overall he is a great combination of speed and size, however, I like Coates RAC potential better and I believe Sammy is more physical. Don’t listen to the stigma of him having “terrible” hands. They aren’t terrible, he just has problems tracking over his shoulder. It is a concentration issue. In summation, I personally would not feel comfortable spending pick 20 on Perriman because 1. I still believe Coates is similar and although he ran a 4.44 at the combine, I think his speed is better than what the combine says and his other numbers are better than Perriman. 2. Even though Strong is not a “burner” he can still create separation against one of the best in the upcoming draft (Peters) while Perriman showed off against inferior position. I would gladly take Perriman with a trade back in the first round.
Appreciate you looking at it. You saw alot of what made me excited about him, and you confirmed what I thought about the drops. I do have to apologize because I ended up having a very unexpected busy weekend. I thought I could relax this weekend but work found a way to haunt me this weekend. Before I comment regarding the prospects I would like to do the due diligence you did and be able to watch their film. I’ll be able to get back to you tomorrow or Tuesday at latest.
Deleted. Double post.
If he has trouble with drops, you may as well go with Coates who can be had in the second round. More explosive and more physical. People saw his hands are terrible, not a natural hands catcher, blah blah blah. He catches fine. They are concentration related and mostly with tracking over his shoulder.
Idk man. I think Perriman is far more explosive. Something like 20.7 YPC last year, and at his pro day ran a 4.27 which is probably like a 4.37 at the combine. I think he is like 6’3 212. That’s impressive. While his hands are 9 in. I think the drops are more concentration. He will come down with that wow grab now and then. Chip will fix the concentration issue. He excels at tracking the ball and over shoulder catches, probably just as good if not better then any WR in the draft. For a guy that has such speed he is also physical and a good run blocker for a WR. I really think he is a notch above Coates.
Did you see Coates wreck the db from A&M? So destructive.
No I haven’t, I do have to check it out.
its all bullshit when talking about top 50 WR.. he cant seperate, he cant catch, he cant get off the line of scrimmage against press, its all a bunch of bullshit when we are talking about WR talents that will go in the first two rounds… they all have talent to be nice weapons at the next level… people are nuts, acting like scouts are so bad that a kid gets drafted in the top 50 that doesnt have the raw tools and ability to be a nice player at the next level… its all pretentious bullshit,
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you dont get drafted in the top 50 without ability..
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whether you succeed or not will come down to work ethic, coaching, commitment, being used in a way that makes the most of your ability.. top 50 picks dont fail because scouts were wrong about their ability..
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find someone who says a player cant get seperation, Ill find you 5 respected opinions who say the opposite. its all crap
and we are in the beginning of a WR BOOM, where it becomes easier and easier to draft quality WRs, and the percentages of how many WR drafted in the first 4 rounds will succeed are going to shoot to an all time high…
It’s really not, because within that top 50 there are players that are better then the others. You make it sound as though all are equal as long as they all put in hard work. That’s ridiculous. Some have natural abilities that you just can’t learn that make them better. Some have physical limitations that may hurt them in the NFL.
i think him and Peerman have to duke it out for #4.. gladly root for either
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I would really love to have Perriman. I wouldn’t go Strong, Angholor or Dorsett in the first. In a different year in which WR wasn’t so strong in the draft then maybe, but not this year.
Which of our new free agents sign contracts that are easy to get out of and can be waived if they dont perform and earn a roster spot in training camp?…..I like signing a bunch of new players each year to get a closer look at, that are only guaranteed a spot on the 90 man roster and an opportunity to battle their way onto the 53 man roster
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If we lose Chris Polk, I hope we give Trey Burton a look as our short yardage back.. Feel like Ryan Mathews lacks high level of toughness. He is talented and should have no problem winning the #2 spot and thrive in it under Chip.. but Id hope we give burton a look in the gritty, tough, short yardage situations, when Demarco subs out of course…. Speaking of Burton, we ONLY have 3 TE, which means its a virtual lock 1 or 2 more TE’s will be added for Training camp purposes(90 man roster)… wondering if Chip Kelly ends up signing Burton’s little brother Clay if he goes undrafted? Not as good of an athlete as Trey, but he is bigger and stronger, and with the loss of Casey and Celek getting old, we may need a TE that can block….
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but Im holding out hope for us drafting Jesse James…
Without shady we don’t need a short yardage back
I’m not sure if I agree about Mathews lacking physical toughness. If you watch him run he runs pretty Damn hard. Not as hard as Murray, but pretty Damn hard. He has a VERY effective stiff arm if he has to bounce outside.
he suspect…when the games get gritty he puts the ball on the turf .,.. I dont like his fumbles for a RB in this stage of his career. Not so much the numbers, how he fumbles… I have been able to call a few of his fumbles watching his games, and that bothers me….
I agree completely about the fumbles. Let’s hope Chip and Duece have a Coughlin- Tiki Barber effect in him.
im hoping running out of a spread helps him…
Retooling his ball handling skills is what would really help. Playing out of the spread means less bodies around him, but he will still fumble, just statistically probably less.
I think TJ Clemmings is a future pro-bowler. I wouldn’t mind drafting him in the 1st round round and letting him sit a season.
I like him, but I wouldnt want to draft him at 20… for starters I think there is a good chance we can trade back and still scoop him up, but if someone happens to steal him, I think we can find high level alternatives..
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Under rating of Fisher reminds me a lot of Kyle Long, who I was banking on getting in round 2, after we drafted Dion in round 1… Fortunately the football Gods interfered, and we saw Miami steal Dion from us, which turned into a blessing because Kyle Long never even made it to #25, let alone round 2.. I cant say drafting one would make me any happier then drafting the other.. Clemmings is a little more polished, especially in the strength department, But Fisher has the advantage of knowing he can handle consistently playing and practicing at our tempo, and he is an excellent athlete. It will be scary to see Lane, Fisher,and Kelce Flying down the right side of the field blocking for Tiny Sproles on a screen while he hides behind our agile monsters… I dont Think we can go wrong with Fisher or Clemmings, so if both are available at #20, I would HATE to see us draft either. If Both are still available, it gives us odds of trading back and still ending up with one….. Fisher/Clemmings, either works, just trade back and get an extra pick first
If we draft him he wins the right guard spot pretty easily I would think.
That’s what I would like to see. Him starting off and playing well at guard, and eventually moving to OT once Peters retires.
I love TJ Clemmings! I wonder if he could survive Chip’s tempo though. Still, I must admit that he is physically more dominating then Fisher.
BTW, I was on OL and DL many, many years ago. TJ warms my heart. I loved to play with such violence!
OD:
I sure was hoping you were gonna write something like:
“I wonder if Clemmings could survive Chip’s tempo . . . . But it won’t be an issue worth wondering about because the Eagles will be picking 1st overall.”
Well said AC, well said. But only if the PRICE is right.
The tempo is not a problem for him as he will have around 4 months to get into good enough shape
Anders – I tend to argee here also. If you love to hit people, the opportunity to hit more often is a strong incentive.
As long as he does it on the field!
Tempo is not a problem for him? Blanket statement. You have no clue how we will handle it
Clemmings is stronger now, but Fisher will catch up once our strength coaches get their hands on him. Clemmings strength makes him a more polished run blocker, but fortunately much of our run blocking is based off of an initial Combo block, then peeling off to go hunting for LBs at the next level. Fisher Needs to get stronger, but he is certainly strong enough to execute an initial double team/combo block… so even if we want to start the rookie over Barbre, I still think Fisher can handle starting right away in our scheme…
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Fisher can, and Fisher WILL get stronger… can Clemmings handle playing and practicing at our tempo every single day/game? What happens to his weight, can he maintain it or will our system cause it to fluctuate? I also dont LOVE Clemmings personalty… he isnt a bad kid, or a charecter concern. Its just a stupid mental block that I have, that whenever I hear him talk, Jonathon Martin and Danny Watkins pop into my head…
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but at the end of the day, both can start at Guard and take over at Tackle in a few years, and either would give us a solid solution… so give me the one we can trade back for the most value and still get… Thats the one I want…
Why will Fischer get stronger? If Oregon couldnt make him stronger, how can the Eagles? Oregon has maybe one the top facilities in the country, even over NFL teams.
wow… every kid in the draft that makes a roster is going to get stronger.
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Are you friggin kidding? am I being Punked?
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sorry kids, might as well stop busting your ass, quit your training, put the weights down. You are officially maxed out as athletes at the age of 22 and 23… lol no matter how hard hard you work, you are destined to NEVER be any stronger then you are today, No Grown man strength for you!! no body maturity for you!… You are what you are, might as well stop training, you will never be any stronger then now….. You are right, please disregard my post. Im so sorry, Next time Ill remember this lesson you taught me today….
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thank you for the thought provoking response,. much appreciated
Jake Fisher is 22 years old and has been in a professional strength program for 4 years, he isnt going to be much stronger than he already is.
Fisher will NEVER be as strong as a guy like Kyle Long or TJ Clemmings. Fisher is more like Mathis in that he has to win with clean technique because he isnt a guy who can win consistently win with power in the NFL.
Also many former players and even our old OL coach Howard Mudd have said in interviews that functional strength is something you either or dont and its not something you just magically get in the NFL.
ok
Anders – You hit the nail on the head. Stoutland, I’m sure, sees the strength/meanness differential between TJ and Fisher. I doubt Chip would overule him if Stoutland wanted Clemmings. And I think he may have a bias in this direction, having come from Alabama.
Agree 100%.
LOL
It really depends on the body type. I’m not saying Fisher won’t get stronger but depending on the player going into the NFL due to his body type it may be minimal. I think it’s a stretch to say all college players will get stronger in the NFL. It’s very possible that they have already maxed out. Because of this I think Clemmings actually has the body type to become stronger then Fisher.
lol ask any offensive lineman in the NFL if he is stronger in year 3 then he was when he was a rookie.
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i cant even believe im having this discussion,… you guys probably should go tell ertz to stop wasting his time, because he is busting his ass doing strength training this offseason,,, agree to disagree, because this is crazy
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22 yr old kids probably dont even get their grown man strength yet.. Nevermind. let me shutup..
We are not saying he won’t get stronger. I am saying depending on the athletes body type and how fast he grew up it can range from minimal to alot. Clemmings is stronger then Fisher is now, and with how his frame is, he has the ability to add more muscle then Fisher does. Look at Bunkly, strongest guy in the draft that year. Players said he was strongest person on the team, it would be harder for him to gain alot more strength seeing that he was probably at or close to his natural limit. It is different for EVERY person. I did not once say Fisher couldn’t gain strength. I said it was foolish to say EVERY player will improve at strength. And looking at the body types, if both Fisher and Clemmings worked equally as hard, it may prove foolish to say that Fisher will ever be stronger then Clemmings.
First of all, I said Clemmings was clearly stronger today..
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secondly, No where in my POST am I talking about Fisher growing to be stronger or as strong as clemmings. I dont give a fuck how strong fisher is in relation to Clemmings today, and I dont care how strong he is in relation to him 5 years from now… He doesnt play against Clemmings on Sunday… I care that Fisher improves his strength enough to be successful playing offensive line at the NFL level… and you can bet against that happening if you want, but Id bet JAKE goes on to become strong enough to be a quality player worth the high draft pick that he will cost…
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who is stronger of the two doesnt concern me… Btw, Fisher is going to improve his strength much more then clemmings will improve his agility and speed,… you can bet fisher is strong enough to execute a combo block double teaming a defensive lineman, and after the initial combo block, Fisher is going to be better at peeling off and getting to that next level to execute the second part of our run play… fisher is more agile, quicker, faster, which matters in THIS offense with how much we ask our players to get down field..
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and why would i gamble that Clemmings can grow to handle our constant tempo and unorthodox football practice habits, when I can have a quality player at the same position who became a top prospect playing in our tempo and practice our way, and has already proved that he can keep the weight on…
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Clemmings isnt sooo much better of a prospect that makes it worth gambling on an unknown. After this year, chip isnt going to know as many of the drafts picks as well as he does… All the damn ducks I sat and watch us add, There are finally ducks I want, so I hope chip adds both Fisher and Grasu, add two highly rated talents and eliminate all the guess Work… YES PLEASE!!!
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It needs to be a bigger discrepency then Clemmings and fisher for me to be ok with pissing away this advantage of knowing exactly what we are getting..
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Now Sherff, Sherff is so much better that it would be worth pissing away our sure thing and gamble on his upside..
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but you sound like a man who made up his mindl so lets agree to disagree… and please dont ever say that absurd nonsense again of 22yr olds not being able to improve their strength, because if THATS the case, Taylor hart and Marcus smith should have been cut last year, and that would mean that there are a bunch of STRENGTH COACHES STEALING money from NFL Franchises…
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30yr old men, can get stronger… Laughable to say a 22yr old is maxed out in the strength department…. You dont think Fletcher Cox is going to be stronger this year then he was last year? wtf
Let’s make two things clear. I’m going to say what I want to say regardless of what you want to hear, it’s your choice of whether or not you want to read it. 2- You may just want to argue because for the 3rd time I will say this. I NEVER SAID FISHER COULD NOT GET STRONGER.
Speak for yourself… Anders straught up said a 22yr old lineman won’t get stronger, any way you want to reword it, it’s absurd
Yeah, I didn’t say it. If you read what I wrote it’s 100% true. How do you misconstrue what I said, or say I reworded to say that Fisher can’t get stronger?
Most guys struggle to even maintain status quo during the season, they then have an off season injury, that means the time to actually get “stronger” does not excist, they only really have time to get up to their desired weight. Maybe a guy can change his body like Marcus Smith needs to.
For a guy like Ertz to become a good blocker, its not about strength at all. Majority of blocking is pure technique, that is why Evan Mathis is such a good run blocker despite him not been able to move his man like a Jason Peters can do.
If we compare Fisher to Clemmings. Fisher will never ever be the guy you consistently see move guys of the LoS with strength, Clemmings is already that guy.
Short run I like Clemmings better. Long run I like Fisher better because I believe he will be better equipped to handle quicker speed rushers when he moves to RT.
Interesting. I was actually thinking the exact opposite. Jake Fisher is more experienced and can probably start right away at RG since he’s used to the up-tempo offense.
Clemmings is a raw player. He was a track and basketball player in high school that started college football as a defensive end and made the move to OT two years ago. He’s quick, athletic, and has a strong frame but struggles with technique in the passing game.
If Kelly is confident enough in his coaching staff and in Clemming’s ability to learn the game, then long term Clemmings would be the better pick.
Fisher is very athletic as well, he’s no scrub, and the Eagles would be fine as well with him long term. It would be really tempting not to take him when you brought in a new franchise QB who has a history of season ending injuries. You want Sam Bradford to be comfortable and confident in the pocket.
But Clemmings can be an elite player and the guy who eventually replaces Jason Peters. Jake Fisher can be good as well, but he doesn’t have the same ceiling.
It’s tough. I wouldn’t know what to do unless I had more tape to watch and had the time to sit down with each player.
id go with Fisher… better suited for what we do… heck he became a top 50 prospect playing very similar to how we play…id rather have Clemmings girth if we ran a power man blocking scheme… rather have Fishers agility and quickness to get at the second level… our Guards dont need girth to execute combo blocks… Need our OL, sleek and athletic
Clemmings is sleek and athletic as well. He pretty much has the same height and weight as Fisher. But it’s unknown if he can get to the next level like Fisher or if can get out and attack on screen plays. That’s the kind of stuff you can only gauge from private workouts since his college team didn’t run that type of offense.
i never said clemmings was a bad athlete… he just isnt AS fast, AS athletic as Fish..
He can, and his college tape shows that he can.
better equipped to get to the second level, you know, one of the most important thing we look for in our 300lbers.. and he has more ability then anyone in the draft in that regard. better at getting out in front of screens…I like Fisher more in our zone blocking scheme, Id take clemmings over him in a power man blocking scheme
I keep going back and forth on who I really want between the two. I originally said Fisher, then Clemmings, now I’m going back to Fisher. I’ll take either one, but you are right, Fisher would be the best fit, especially long term. I think Clemmings would be perfect for Seattle, and if he somehow lasts till their pick they may take him to replace Carpenter. Or they may go WR. They got Graham, it seems as though they may be putting a new emphasis on O weapons.
i dont mind either… i want the one we can trade back and get, that brings us the most trade compensation…
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i think either can get the job done for us, but I would feel so much better about Fish, because Chip knows exactly who he is, i dont have to worry about him having problems transitioning to our unique way of doing things,,
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But I like both players.. I like that they both have long term tackle versatility. so im good with either… I just dont want to hear people bash one, so that they can prop up the other when in reality we be lucky to have either
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and i dont ever want to hear again that a 22yr old player cant get stronger… 35yr old Dorenbos can get stronger if he works at it
[…] The rest of the article can be found here: Iggles Blitz […]
Not sure if folks have seen this:
http://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/
but there’re some interesting correlations between his ratings and some of what Chip seems look for at certain positions.
Yeah ive been obsessed with that site for a little while now and have noticed that the majority of prospects that we’ve been showing interest in are rated highly in their respective categories…Byron jones and eric rowe are the obvious ones but..Terry poole and adrian amos are some others. Ive been looking at those ratings, our visits/interviews etc., and kyle crabs ratings and trying to connect the dots to figure out who we may draft
SPARQ is a big component in how the Seahawks have built their roster. They focus on explosiveness. Everybody is brainwashed to focus on the tape and measurable dont really matter. Seattle focuses on what the finsihed product can be andtrusts their coaches to help their players reach that potential.
They also focus on guys that have an edge to them. That is why many of their players are so outspoken. This is the one difference I really see in what Chip wants and i’m interested to see how it works out. Having a locker room full of good guys is nice, but we make lac that killer instinct needed to be dominant.
I don’t know about SPARQ, but Im an SPQR soldier! Lol
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Seantus Populusque Romanus
Sparq is also invented by Nike so pretty sure Kelly knows everything about it and users it. It also shows that Kellys mantra about size/length isn’t just bs, but also have root in reality
I did a 7-round mock draft. Not just for the Eagles, but pick-by-pick every team. Actually I’ve done through our 7th round pick, I’ll finish up the last little bit later. Included a few trades, including one involving the Eagles. Randy Gregory dropped to 20. He’s a character reject for the Eagles but I figured he’d be coveted so I mocked the trade of 20 to Oakland for 35, 68, and a 2016 4th round pick. My mock picks are then as follows:
2-35: Nelson Agholor 6-0 198 WR Southern Cal
2-52: Eric Rowe 6-1 205 CB/S Utah
3-68: Brett Hundley 6-3 227 QB UCLA
3-84: Adrian Amos 6-0 218 S Penn State
4-113: Jeremiah Poutasi 6-5 335 G/T Utah
5-145: Kyle Emanuel 6-3 255 LB North Dakota State
5-156: Mark Glowinski 6-4 307 OG West Virginia
6-196: Obum Gwacham 6-5 246 LB Oregon State
7-237: Adrian Coxson 6-1 217 WR Stony Brook(NY)
If Gregory is there at 20 we need to pick him. Top 5 talent.
Gregory is not a character reject… he is an addict. Which is both better and far more scary. Addictive personalities can channel their behaviours into positive behaviour types – you can be come addicted to working out or winning or even football (common on this blog lol!), but it can go in the wrong direction as well.
So much depends on the predraft process with Gregory of what he is doing from a rehabilitation perspective and we have 0 access to that. If he is not showing tangible progress he could have an epic draft day slide, down into the late rounds.
I’m not making any personal evaluations of him and/or addiction, just saying based on what we know of Kelly and how narrow his assigned parameters are(not just with regard to character) that it is unlikely that he would be on the Eagles’ draft board.
Think the character stuff is overblown a bit… Not overblown, but I think chip DOESNT really care what you do, as long as it doesn’t effect your ability to give your all to the football team.
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I doubt many NFL coaches care about players smoking weed. I don’t think THATS the crime. I think THE CRIME in the coaches mind is that they were stupid enough to fail the drug test and let the team down…… If a kid smokes weed, but has it under control to where he never fails drug tests and doesn’t let his team down, I doubt chip cares… I doubt many coaches care that Gregory smoked weed. I think that the RED FLAG is that he let the weed interfer with his commitment to football doing something so stupid as to piss hot at a combine, when you knew months in advance that you would be tested on that day…
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Take Alcohol as an example. perfectly legal, if we take kids off the board who enjoy a beer at times there wouldn’t be anyone to draft….doubt chip cares if you drink…. But if you are staying out all night drinking on a Tuesday night and show up to wednesday practice Hung Over, effecting your practice/study habits, THATS a REDFLAG for Chip
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Basically I don’t think chip looks for these boyscouts, he looks for kids who put football above all else, Guys who won’t do anything to negatively impact your responsibility to the coaching staff and his teammates
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Be fascinating to see how chip would have handled inheriting Lawrence Taylor a STONECOLD psycho, but one of the greatest player to ever take the field..
“Weakness” – Tommy LaSorda
LIke it except for one thing;
– I want no parts of Hundley’s mentally slow rear end on this roster.
When I do a mock draft, I try to get in the mind of the actual drafters and project what I think they will do. I had both Petty and Hundley available. Tough choice. I personally prefer Petty. Thought Kelly would prefer Hundley, but I go back and forth on that.
That totally makes sense. I agree on preferring Petty, but by a WIDE margin.
my guess is chip would prefer petty, but I’m not sure he will be looking to draft a QB in the top 4 rounds…
What’s wrong mIke? You don’t LOVE that he is being mentored by McNabb? Lol but five will always love you man….
Hundley won’t make it past #30
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In what world does the #3 QB prospect last TIL round 3?
In a world where the #3 QB prospect is only worth a 3rd round pick.
yeah I’m not familiar with THAT world.. But ok… As if someone won’t trade back into the end off round 1’to steal him from the teams waiting to draft a QB at the beginning of round 2, justify it by the fact that they get a 5th year option from taking him in round 1… But ok….we can agree to disagree
You can never tell year from year. In 2011, all the QBs got pushed up and guys like Christian Ponder and Jake Locker were taken in the top 12. Teams started to learn their lesson from that and by 2013 guys like Matt Barkley who were hyped as 1st or 2nd rounders got taken in the 4th. If a guy isn’t a sure-fire franchise QB, you shouldn’t reach for them out of hope and desperation.
This make a lot of sense and worries me.
Don’t worry.
You’re going to have a lot of people cussing you out if things don’t go how you seem to think they are.
I’m still surprised people are falling for it.
I still think it is 50/50, and NOT a sure thing at all. I was just poking fun on a lazy Sunday. Sorry to offend.
Not offended. Just saying “Get ready for the backlash.” No one has a clue what will happen. A “good” mock draft is about 30% accurate.
I dont give a crap about Mariota.. i hope he gets taken with the #1 pick, but an end to this nonsense the moment the draft starts…
Regarding Ajirotutu signing, don’t you guys think it’s the brad smith punishment for the mistake he did on the kickoff opener against Dallas? That could be considered like the season changing moment and a pill hard to swallow for chip.
I wouldn’t say it’s a punishment to Smith for anything, he is a free agent and the Eagles went in another direction with a younger more talented special teamer
Yeah, no one is going to hold 1 play against a player, especially when Brad Smith made way more quality ST plays then he made bonehead plays…
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“Punishment for a bad play”???? Come on.
Mike McCarthy seems to disagree….
That TE was cut based on season performance or lack thereof not solely because of that blunder in the playoffs
That’s what the coaches say.
shhhh you arent going to talk sense with a fool
No. He continued to play didn’t he?
If we were punishing guys for 1 horrible play that killed us last year, we would have to lose some pretty good players
Good morning; here’s a draft
Round 1 Pick 20: Trae Waynes, CB, Michigan State (A)
Round 2 Pick 26 (BALT): Ali Marpet, OG, Hobart & William Smith (B+)
Round 3 Pick 20: Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami (Fla.) (A+)
Round 3 Pick 26 (BALT): Rob Havenstein, OT, Wisconsin (B)
Round 4 Pick 14: Jesse James, TE, Penn State (A)
Round 5 Pick 9: Clayton Geathers, SS, UCF (A)
Round 5 Pick 20: Kenny Bell, WR, Nebraska (A+)
Round 6 Pick 20: Zach Wagenmann, DE/OLB, Montana (B-)
Round 7 Pick 20: Kyshoen Jarrett, SS, Virginia Tech (B-)
Outside chance Waynes makes it to 20, but doubtful. Don’t think Dorsett lasts nearly that far. Don’t think Geathers is a good scheme fit.
True, true, and Tommy and D3FB both like Geathers; so I’d need to read more about scheme fit with him.
He’s a scheme fit.
He’s a bigger guy, but has a decent amount of experience in man. He doesn’t have the best range, but I literally saw him lean the wrong way only one time (and Hackenberg got most Ireland to bite)
I saw a similar thing D3FB, dude doesn’t bite. Doesn’t get beat deep.
Why isn’t he a scheme fit? He looks pretty darn good to me. He’s a hard hitter who can cover better than Collins for way cheaper.
Unless you think he won’t be the 1st CB drafted, he won’t fall to #20
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How often has the first CB not get drafted Til pick #20? Like 3% of the time in the past 15yrs?
I guess the Phillies are not the worst team in baseball after all.
What’s with the New Hampshire WR CSN making a big deal about chip scouting?
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Reports:
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Marcel Dareus looking at an extension woth $50 mil Guaranteed, on a contract that pays him more then Gerald McCoy
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Mohammed Wilkerson looking at an extension with $30mil guaranteed, which would be good news for Fletcher Cox fans
Late round-UDFA type. Nothing to hype one way or the other.
Do we currently have any players that can function as our emergency QB on gameday now that we jettisoned Brad smith and Casey?
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if Not, are we going to target a WR or TE who is a converted QB?
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Or are we going to dress 3 QBs on Gameday for the first time under chip?
Well, marcus smith did play QB in high school
So did Lane…
Looks like we’re set then!
Peter Schrager
@PSchrags
3h
3 hours ago
Two guys who NFL execs seem to have higher ranked than most mocks: USC WR Nelson Agholor and Wake Forest CB Kevin Johnson.
Peter Schrager
@PSchrags
3h
3 hours ago
Agholor’s going to surprise people on April 30. He could go before Strong and Perriman. Execs believe he’s a sure thing and can play ASAP.
Peter Schrager
@PSchrags
3h
3 hours ago
Ereck Flowers is the first offensive tackle taken in my mock draft going up tomorrow. He is top rated OT on multiple boards.
Peter Schrager
@PSchrags
3h
3 hours ago
Pass rushers are a pick ’em after Fowler. Ray, Gregory, Dupree, Beasley should all go top 15. Order can vary based on team.
i AGREE that people are seriously mistaken if they think we can get Agholar in round 2, same thing goes with Kevin Johnson..
,..
But I DOUBT Agholar goes before Brashuad, who I think you are under rating… Id bet Peerman gets drafted closer to #10, then closer to #20
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and Agholar isnt exactly some secret, even Mel Kiper rates him as his #18th best prospect in the draft… he is only under rated by fans who take their que from silly parrot media
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then again, same thing went with Marcus smith last year… i was a nervouse wreck that Dallas would draft him with the 18th pick, yet media fools brainwashed fans into thinking he was a 3rd round pick..
any idea how much longer Dorenbos will remain an eagle? whats the typical retirement age of the quality long snappers? Feels like he has been an Eagle forever
He’s 34, will be 35 in July. Should have a few more years in him. We did strangley use one of our pre-draft visits on Navy LS Joe Cardona. But he has a Navy commitment for a few years. Maybe his obligation will be up about when it’s time for Dorenbos to retire and Chip is just doing super-advanced planning ahead.
Maybe Chip should check out these videos to realise that size does not always matter…
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/4/12/8393215/brandon-boykin-dunk-eagles-video-cornerback-georgia-slow-motion-360
It does when the 6-3 guy you’re covering also has crazy hops.
True.
Maybe I was just preparing mentally for the days when Boykin won’t be an Eagle anymore.
Wow. If nothing else he has a high floor. Should provide solid depth even if he never improves radically. I’m starting to think Chip, even more than Belichick, has the temperament of a hoarder at a fleemarket. He has to follow a budget though so he does an incredible amount of window shopping to get the best possible deal on what he needs.
With that in mind, all the Byron Jones and Eric Rowes might be too high profile for him. His ideal case might be to build a championship team from all UDFAs, NOT that I’m predicting it or saying he expects to, just that most of the guys we expect aren’t who he’s after. Probably. Unless he thinks he can trade them on draft day for the ones he does want and/or future picks. Or Mariota. Who the heck even knows.