Risk
Posted: July 11th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 143 Comments »Jason Pierre-Paul looked like the most dominant defensive player in the league in 2011. He racked up 16.5 sacks, 8 TFLs, 2 FFs and even batted down 7 passes. The Giants won the Super Bowl that year and many wondered if JPP would be the new LT, striking fear into the hearts of offensive players and coaches around the league.
JPP didn’t handle success well and wasn’t nearly the same player in 2012. He still had 8 TFLs, but only 6.5 sacks. And his run defense was an issue. The Eagles ran at him repeatedly in an Sunday night win where the team piled up 191 rushing yards. TE Brent Celek was able to single-block JPP more than a few times.
Injuries hit in 2013 and JPP really fell off. He rebounded in 2014 and showed glimpses of the player he had been in the past. JPP finished with 12.5 sacks.
Now his career is very much up in the air. The Giants want him back, but no one knows how he will perform.
JJ Watt came into the NFL in 2011 and got off to a good start. He was lights out in 2012. He played well in 2013, but really took things up a notch in 2014. Watt is the best player in the NFL right now.
JPP and Watt both have a rare combination of size and athleticism. Both can take over games. There is one big difference. Watt stays focused and does everything he can to be great.
Every #NFL Rookie needs to read this and learn. Well said JJ Watt. pic.twitter.com/D3q4k2487F
— Ben Leber (@nacholeber) July 8, 2014
JPP got out of shape for a while. He lost his work ethic. This comes as no surprise to the NFL teams who scouted him prior to the 2010 draft. JPP had the measurables that every team coveted, but he wasn’t on all 32 draft boards because some teams thought he wasn’t dedicated to the game. Other teams thought he partied too much.
On July 4th JPP made a careless decision to play with some very powerful fireworks. Why on earth would you ever do that when you are in the prime of your NFL career? JPP had millions of dollars at stake. His coach might be fired if JPP doesn’t play well. There is a lot on the line for JPP, his teammates and his coaches in 2015. That’s all more complicated than ever due to the fireworks mishap that cost him one finger and left the rest of his hand damaged.
Chip Kelly is trying to build the Eagles with the right kind of players. He has yet to take any real chances in terms of character when it comes to draft picks and giving out huge contracts. JPP is a poster child for his thinking. As good as JPP can be, is he worth the risk? You don’t know which guy you are getting from year to year. What kind of a team are you building when the best player can’t be counted on to consistently work hard and stay focused?
DeSean Jackson posted great numbers for the Skins in 2014, but the team was still highly dysfunctional and went 4-12. Jackson has incredible talent and blows you away when he’s at his best. Unfortunately Jackson wants to be a celebrity and/or rapper as much as he wants to be a football star. His new reality show is doing nothing to change the image of Jackson as a talented, but flawed individual. Thankfully Eliot Shorr-Parks has taken the time to watch the show and share some “highlights”.
The first episode of the show starts off with a bang, as Jackson is shown producing a rap album, yelling at the police, smoking a cigar and drinking in a club.
“You know what the downfall of every great athlete is?,” Gayle Jackson, DeSean’s mother, asks during a dinner. “Alcohol, money and women.”
Right on cue, the show cuts to shots of Jackson smoking and drinking surrounded by women in a bar. In the prior scene, Jackson is seen shouting at police as they drive by outside.
“Haters!,” Jackson yells. “Bye, bye!”
Jackson is also quoted as saying the Eagles tried to “blow (him) up” and ruin his reputation by releasing him.
Then comes the second episode.
Jackson is asked by his sister, A’Dreea, about his financial situation and a recent charge on a credit card.
“What could you have spent $5,000 on in one night in the club?,” A’Dreea Jackson asks, before finding another charge for $25,000.
“Alcohol,” Jackson responds.
Jackson, in a private moment with cameras, then admits that he has perhaps lost his way since his father, Bill, passed away in 2009.
“When I have football, I’m focused. Then once the off time comes, it’s like, ‘Ok, what’s next?'” Jackson says. “When my dad was here, it was always, ‘Ok, we’re working out, we’re training, we’re training. But when my dad passed away, I did a lot of crazy things. I partied, I was spending money I shouldn’t have spent…because I don’t have that dominant voice to tell me I’m trippin.”
His brother, Byron, also speaks to the bad influences around DeSean.
“My dad was very protective of who DeSean came out with and some of his friends,” Byron says. “Since my dad passed, some of the friends have come back around, and they weren’t good news for DeSean.”
A constant theme of the show is Jackson’s mother and sister having to control DeSean. In one scene, his sister (who admits she has to follow DeSean around to make sure he is following the rules) sits him down to discuss him and his friends jumping off of a roof into the pool.
“Does nobody have common sense in the group?” A’Dreea says. “You take enough risks in your every day-to-day life.
“There are definitely some people around I question,” A’Dreea says of DeSean’s friends. “Their life is just like a big party.”
Compare that to what we’ve heard about Jordan Matthews and Nelson Agholor. There is no question that Jackson is more talented. It isn’t close. But can you ever build a championship team with a guy like him?
People love to point out the Cowboys teams of the early 90’s. Listen to Michael Irvin talk and you understand that they worked hard and played hard. They busted their butts in practice. Those players were so ultra-competitive that they weren’t going to allow the partying to affect the on-field product. They wanted to be the kings of the football world. There was no desire to be a rap star.
Kelly wants players who want to be great players. He wants stars that he can count on. Guys that will motivate themselves and will help others. Kelly doesn’t want to have to coach effort. That should be a given.
Tim McManus has a great story on some Eagles getting together out west and working together during this down time. This is exactly what Kelly wants.
A good number of the players in attendance have Southern California ties, like Ryan Mathews and Seyi Ajirotutu. Matt Barkley was there for a portion of the week as well, Durkin said. Others, like Jordan Matthews, wandered a little further from their roots to be there.
They are all staying in one house, says Durkin, and travel around together in a white van that he has dubbed the “Eaglemobile.”
“I said all you need now is a green pair of wings on that van and you’ll be set,” he said. “It’s cool, the bonding that is happening. You’ve got the guys driving around in a white van, they’re coming out and laughing and having fun. When it’s go time they’re working their butts off. We’ve got rookies out here, we’ve got guys that are trying to make the club, we’ve got proven veterans that are showing the young guys how to work.”
I especially love the nugget about the van.
You can take a risk on talented players with character flaws. More than a few of those guys have won Super Bowls. But you can also end up having a team fall apart and getting yourself fired. Kelly prefers players he can trust to do the right thing, whether he is watching or not. We’ll see if this formula pays off for him.
_
I think Marynowitz said something interesting during his first (and only?) PC. He said they want to build a team where the best players are the best people, meaning the leaders and the hardest workers.
Look at Belichick, for example. He signs some players with character flaws from time to time, but those players, while they can be important, aren’t the core of the team. The key core is Brady, McCourty, Mayo (Wilfork was part of the core before he left). Who are we talking about there? The first ballot HoF QB, the leader of the secondary and the signal caller and leader of the front 7 (and when Wilfork was there, he was the leader of the D-Line).
Belichick signs some headcases because he believes Brady, McCourty, Mayo and the rest of the Patriots leader are strong enough to keep these headcases straight.
I don’t know if Chip will ever sign headcases or if he’s against that no matter what. But he has built a solid core of young players who will all be leaders for this team, some of them are already leaders: Matthews, Agholor, Ertz, Kelce, Cox, Kiko. He also signed/traded for veteran leaders like Bradford, Murray, Sproles, Barwin, Jenkins, Maxwell. And there are veteran leaders who were there pre Chip, like Peters or Ryans.
We’ll see how it looks on Sundays, but from a teambuilding and team leaders perspective, Chip already built a very strong core. If they play football as good as they work hard every day, we’ll have something. If not, there must be new talent added next year. But from a leadership standpoint, the core is already there.
To answer your question about whether Chip will ever sign a headcase, we just signed a guy named Moffit, and if you do a little research on him, headcase may be a good description.
Having said that, I love me some crazy, when it comes to Football players.
Beau Allen, Celek, Cooper, Lane, and even Peters have been known to flip their collective lids every now and again.
Moffit, of course, is also a very low risk/high reward player. I guess he passed enough #culture tests to take the chance.
Moffit isn’t a headcase. He definitely
Drugs can do some crazy things to people– my guess is that while he may be a little “off” when sober, it’s not even close to the person he morphs into when actively using.
Another well written piece Tommy.
It sure helps me better understand how Chip thinks and makes too much sense as to why you would let certain players go.
I always felt that Chip is the kind of coach that would prefer having a team full of players who were all truly focused both on and off the field of one unified goal of winning.
What fan base could ask for anything more than to have a coach with this kind of philosophy.
Off topic, but in my daily search of anything Eagle related, I stumbled upon this really awesome article on Fish Duck, and I am sharing it with my favorite fans.
Click on the link and you will see one writers take on why Chip made all of these off season moves.
http://fishduck.com/2015/07/the-dawn-of-the-second-coming-the-oklahomafication-of-chip-kellys-offense/
So, do you think the front office gave an official mandate to Cooper to not go to today’s Kenny Chesney concert?
LOL, I doubt Coop will be making any public appearances anytime soon, with the exception of when he is playing.
He seemed to have learned his lesson IMO.
In fact, prior to that incident I would go as far to say that this man was considered one of the higher character guys on the team.
If he decided to skip that concert on that fateful day, we may have never suspected that he would have even been capable of such behavior.
If only he would have said, “I’ll take down every Confederate flag in here” on that fateful night….
A’Dreea is an effing cool name.
It’s what happens when you pick names based on the letters on your Scrabble rack.
No apostrophe in Scrabble, bro. That’s straight up creativity.
Maybe she had a blank tile…
My favorite creative name I ever saw was while working in an emergency room when a little girl came in and the name on her chart was Da-Da. I politely asked the mother how to pronounce the girls name, was is DaDa or DayDay or what. I was casually told, and I quote, “Just the way it looks motherfucker…DaDashda.” Now that’s creativity!
Desean Jackson is a moron, jumping off roofs into a pool. How stupid do you have to be? You’re an NFL player risking getting injured in order to have some fun. Btw I thought Michael Irvin partied a lot too?
So how long do you think we have until Gronkowski does something just a little TOO stupid?
I think the news of him breaking Antonio Cromartie’s most baby mama record will come after his career. Kraft has that hush money for Gronk.
#whitesoitsokay
Really? Let’s not forget he is in his mid 20’s. Should he not drive? Should he not be allowed to walk outside when there is lightning? God forbid he jumps off of something slightly high into a body of deep water.
Nope. He’s 28 years old he’s not a stupid teenager he’s a grown man. Plus, if my livelihood was dependent on my body’s continued health and lack of injury and millions of dollars were at stake I’d be very careful with that. I wouldn’t be jumping off balconies or lighting explosives in my hands to let loose. I’m not asking him to wear bubble wrap or not ever get in an automobile, I’m asking him to be a little smarter. Chip Kelly running with the bulls is completely different. If he get’s a broken leg, he can still do his job, a player can’t. It’s why the Eagles asked Babin not to do the run with the bulls but had not problem with Chip doing so.
JPP didn’t light a firework in his hand, he picked up what he thought was a dud. There is a difference in that.
Running with the bulls can get you more then a broken leg. Shit if you get a broken leg while running with the bulls you might just die.
Covering the small gap from the ledge to the pool is a VERY easy task. I would be more worried about the players playing on the EAGLES basketball team then that.
Good for him. He is 28 and having fun jumping into a pool.
Ehhh, I think this is a slightly problematic framing…
Who Desean Jackson is, is a known quantity, and Desean Jackson generally has been pretty professional when he’s at work. At least compared to JPP.
The more interesting comparison is Evan Mathis, who has quietly been a more pathological character for some time, apparently.
To push this along a little more–generally, in order to play the game at a high level, you have to cultivate a mentality that gets you up to the task. That means stimulus chasing, and adrenaline junky behavior even when, or especially when, the potential negative outcomes are very high for little gain. Such as Roethlisberger riding motorbikes aggressively.
when does training camp start?
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but in a long line of unsubstantied, moronic statements, this one is a new champion.
I’m not seeing the problem with the framing.
1. The article makes clear that a big part of being a professional, at least in the eyes of Chip or JJ, is how you act when you’re not on the clock. If you’re a professional athlete what you do in your spare time, and in particular what you do with your body, has a huge impact on your ability to be the best you can. On this DeSean is indeed a known quantity, and what we know is not great.
2. Even when at work, DeSean has admitted dialling it in for a season, been suspended for missing a team meeting, regularly provided zero effort when asked to block and committed one of the single dumbest acts you’ll see on a football field because he was so eager to showboat he forgot to cross the goal line first.
No idea what you consider pathological about Mathis. Dude just wanted some more money.
Jackson did the goal line thing more then once. For the record I am not a Jackson hater. I don’t think he is as bad of a person as many people make him out to be, but I completely understand why Chip got rid of him.
I agree. Wasn’t meaning to imply DeSean’s a bad person. Not particularly smart and more than a little self-absorbed to be sure, but if you threw a bunch of fame and money at *me* at that age my behaviour probably would have been less than ‘professional’ too.
I thought it was telling in his show last week when he was talking about being cut he said (paraphrasing) “what did I do wrong? Have I went to jail?”.
Chris Rock jokes aside, he never thought to ask what he did *right*. Did he look after his body? Did he put in extra work to learn and improve his craft? Did he do everything he could be to be a positive role model to team mates?
It’s fairly obvious Chip would much rather work with a bunch of four star talents determined to squeeze every ounce of potential out of themselves than five star talents who are happy to coast by on what God gave them.
I agree with you. I don’t think you are a Jackson hater.
I’m 100% with you about putting yourself in his shoes and what the money and fame would do to you. Like you I think all that money and fame would have caused me problems. Shit, probably still would considering I am only 26.
I think people are way to quick to to bash some of these athletes. They need to think how they would act with all of that money being handed to them at the age of 21 or so. Add the media looking for every wrong thing you do. Honestly a huge percentage of people that just throw hate at these athletes would probably not behave so well if they were given the world at such a young age.
“Desean Jackson generally has been pretty professional when he’s at work” except for the entire season he slacked off during his contract dispute!
That’s the thing though. “Jackson has been pretty profesional when he’s at work.” That’s the problem right there. He doesn’t dedicate himself like he should to his craft when he isn’t at work.
eh…I’m not sure if professional is a word I’d use for DeSean. When he’s not getting his way he acts like a child. Quit on his team and let his contract effect his play. That’s not professionalism. Often lacked effort prior to Chip coming to town with regards to blocking. Never ran out his routes when he wasn’t the primary target even after Chip got here. And, had multiple blow ups with coaches throughout his career. He’s a star player for sure, but professional isn’t the word I’d use to describe him.
Missing meetings isn’t professional. Cussing out your coach isn’t professional. Inconsistent work ethic and a me attitude aren’t professional. Just my opinion, but DJax is the anti-professional that lives off his talent and doesn’t put in the work to be better.
Dammit I’m bummed about Embiid.
Somebody needs to be out of a job over this mess up with Embid.
BS
Embid was sold to fan base as a guy who would need to sit out a year to due surgery on his foot, but then be ready to play in 2015-16. Here we are and his arrival has not hit expectations; that necessitates blame and consequences.
More BS. He was a known coin flip with high risk, high reward. Anyone who pretends to take what the teams say to the bank, ever, is either clueless or in the media and hence trying km g to play tough guy, gotcha, or both…..oh right…
Fire someone every time a draft pick has multiple set backs….so all front offices on all teams are musical chairs. Everyone gets a turn….ha
If the team says it / sells it, but it doesn’t come to fruition; somebody needs to be taken to the woodshed.
Still not BS.
You can say it however many times you want but it still will have no connection with reality.
As could you. Unless one simply wants to accept “stuff happens” in perpetuity from every team as an excuse for failure.
Right, I accept a reality of the world, a consensus one at that, while you bitch and moan till eternity.
Sorry, but expectations of progress cannot be undercut by “reality.”
And I might add you’re getting a tad abrasive on a personal note with your comments rather than speaking on the topic.
Sorry if I seem abrasive. I’m not talking about you, but your comments. I don’t think that the concept of having such high expectations, that people need to be fired when a draft pick doesn’t work out, or when what everyone else knows to be marketing/optimism turns out to not come to fruition. That’s ridiculous. If your wishes came true regularly, GMs/coaches/front offices and team execs. would be fired every single week.
Lets just institute a “if someone makes a mistake, shoot them” policy and hold everyone to it. Why not right? Expectations…
I see what you’re saying, but in the case of Embid we’re not talking a run of the mill bust possibility. Draft picks bust all the time, but when management is dismissive of concerns that the guy will never play again due to injury, we’re not talking Mike Mamula, etc.
Ok, once again, I have to point to the first word of your screen-name. I don’t know who you are but if you really are in the media, maybe you lost touch with the fact that everyone BUT the media (and I always thought – and still do that it was/is just an act by the media for their agenda) knows better than to put one percentage worth of stock into whatever any management of any team says ever.
Most people understand that when teams talk, it’s because its mandatory and/or they have to market their product.
You could argue that it’s the media’s job to “hold them accountable and take them to task” – but then the public knows to take what the media says in cases like that, and take it with the same size “”grain” (try more like dead-sea worth) of salt” as when the teams talk!
To clear up the screen name, Media is the town in which I live.
And I agree with using filter on what to take from the teams and/or reporters as truth, but the simple fact of drafting a guy with the 3rd overall picks requires that the team not whiff in their evaluation.
If Embid comes back healthy after getting some competent level of medical care, than this is all water under the bridge, but if he doesn’t; there needs to be some level of accountability.
Ha, I appreciate that clarification.
Look, you and I clearly see these things a bit differently. Enjoy the Birds and Sixers seasons. And maybe they will fire someone in the front office for the Sixers if Embid ends up being a true bust long-term. But I personally think that ownership knows that if they took your approach, they’d never succeed because if they did do what you say, it would be “two steps forward, 1 step back, well then take that other step back because any “back” steps, and we start over”…
Do you you kill your kid if they screw up and hope to get pregnant again? People make mistakes with crap shoots – and even 3rd overall draft picks are crap shoots. Heck, #1 draft picks are all crap shoots. Expecting more than a crap shoot from a crap shoot….well….
And that is ultimately the rub. I really don’t mind the tanking to get enough good players in here to really make a great team long-term. I don’t think Hinke’s approach is wrong at all, but not having Embid out there (eventually) posting double doubles while intimidating the entire league out of the post is going to be an extreme letdown if he never gets healthy.
So then fire Chip…”Nick foles… qb….1000 years…
Who said that?
Well you said “If the team says it / sells it, but it doesn’t come to fruition; somebody needs to be taken to the woodshed.”
And Chip Kelly said “Nick Foles will be our quarterback for the next 1000 years”. So essentially, by your iron fist “trueism”, Chip Kelly should be fired because he went back on his word.
Everybody understood Kelly was being sarcastic at that point. The Sixers setting up expectations for Embid’s recovery and contribution to be parallel to Noel’s isn’t even remotely the same thing.
“Everybody understood Kelly was being sarcastic at that point.” – RIGHT – and Everybody understood (except apparently maybe you), that when the Sixers were talking about drafting Embid, that they were being optimistic and doing their job by selling the best case scenario at that point.
Your statement about “The Sixers setting up expectations for Embid’s recover and contribution” – it make you sound very similar to a guy saying “But…but …but… the used care salesman said it was a good deal…”…and this was not the same used car salesman that sold me that model called Bynam…
Next time, don’t believe the loud guy on the commercial doing his job selling whatever product he’s repping, and then you will have more realistic “expectations.”
But the 3rd overall pick in a draft isn’t the same thing as the used car. If the Sixers were trying to sell using a non-premium level draft pick on a guy who they attempted to put out there as a “good deal” in the manner of a used car salesman, I’d agree to avoid believing the hype from the franchise. The 3rd overall pick has a value more akin to a new Mercedes rather than a used Honda.
Embid was the supposed payoff from a season of tanking and it was perfectly fine they chose to take a conservative approach with his health by delaying his start by a full year. But the fact that their entire medical approach failed is completely negligent, especially when began to market around Embid as last season was winding down.
And front offices that screw up with high draft picks are often subjected to a change in employment status. Most recently the Greg Oden foul-up cost Portland’s front office members their jobs if you’d like an NBA type example.
If you’re arguing that they shouldn’t have selected Embid, well the consensus was that he was a “must pick” at that point – and there were no equal upside options available then.
As for “used car” v. Mercedes, I’ll agree there. But a salesman is a salesman.
Most people understand that tanking still involves risk with the lottery system. Anyone expecting tanking to produce the #1 pick reliably is a fool.
So now you’re blaming their medical approach? Everyone knows that big-men foot injuries are VERY difficult to handle.
And this one “front offices that screw up with high draft picks are often subjected to a change in employment status.” – well good job hedging your bet with the word “are often” – because “front offices that screw up with high draft picks” – THATS EVERY FRONT OFFICE EVER. FACT
The bottom line is that the 3rd overall pick needs to eventually contribute to your team’s success or somebody messed up. It isn’t a hedge at all to explain that front offices are consequenced when failing to capitalize on a rare chance at picking that high in a draft.
The fact that it could have been an error in the medical staff’s evaluation is another area of examination if this guy never plays. If the ultimate blame needs to rest with some incompetent medical “professionals”, so be it.
This is a dumb statement. The pick was a gamble. Gambles are inherently not guarantees.
They misread the medical situation. That is poor work. The only tolerable negatives of that pick were having to tank another year and not having Embid play for a whole season due to needing surgery on his foot. If he wasn’t able to come back from that surgery, they should have traded down out of the pick.
me too
Would have been nice to see him this year but hopefully they play it smart and get his foot right.
The most worrying thing to me is the selection of Okafor… Maybe they thought Okafor was too good to pass up, but it also might mean they’re not confident about Embiid’s foot long term.
Either way this year the Sixers should at least begin to be competitive again, and if Saric and Embiid start in next year along with whoever else they draft, this might be a really strong team in a couple years.
It really is a damn shame for that guy.
It also goes to show how high draft picks are overrated and why relying on tanking is not as smart as it may appear.
What is the alternative to relying on tanking?
Being mediocre.
Trying to win.
Well, you could examine the last 15 or so NBA champs and see how many of them built their team through the tanking.
Not a popular factoid with Hinkoids. 🙂
To me, Houston, Atlanta, and Toronto are showing how to build a winner. They get good players, give the effective ones playing time, and are building winning cultures. Their continued success will help build their brand and possibly help them with key FAs. It’s only a matter of time before one or more of them breaks through.
Now how do you get good players? Well, get a good GM.
Getting good players depends a lot on what city you are in/what superstars are already on the team. You’ve already seen this offseason a bunch of players spurn higher contract offers in favor of joining rosters that are already loaded (Aldridge being the most obvious).
When Hinkie took over the Sixers had nothing to offer in terms of becoming a “superteam”. Lebron wasn’t going to team up with Wade and Bosh or Kyrie and Kevin Love and come to Philly, and there was no winning culture with hall of famers like Tim Duncan to lure in big name FA’s either.
Sadly, Philly is also not a glamour destination in basketball like L.A. or New York, so that plan is out the window too.
I would compare what the Sixers are doing most closely to OKC. OKC didn’t deliberately tank (which is almost worse) but the practical effect is the same, for several years they were high up in the draft, and didn’t really get out of the basement and on their way to being a powerhouse until after they had drafted their future stars.
Also, the Golden State Warriors just won the championship mostly on the backs of home grown talent, with their 2 best players drafted while they were in the midst of being terrible every year. Did they deliberately tank? No, but it was functionally almost the same since they were drafting pretty high every year. They picked up Steph Curry, Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes all in the early to mid 1st round, similar to where the Sixers have been picking, got lucky with Draymond Green in the 2nd (where the sixers have been stockpiling picks), and then filled in a few roster holes with good but not superstar free agents like Andre Iguodala.
That’s almost exactly the format the Sixers are trying to follow. Just because they are doing it deliberately rather than naturally being a crappy team I’m not sure makes much of a difference, unless you’re really nostalgic for Jrue Holiday and Spencer Hawes for some reason.
Will Hinkie’s plan work? I don’t know, but saying that it can’t work seems silly. After all the deals they’ve made they’re going to have plenty of chances to draft future stars over the next few years.
Right lets just get good players.
It’s about more than draft picks. Look at the Kings trade and you’ll see the true genius of Hinkie. Draft picks do mean something, but cap flexibility is even better.
1. Hinkie is absolutely a good GM. Even those that hate the process league wide don’t dispute the fact he’s a good GM.
2. Other than Detroit, no team that’s won it all in the last 15 years has done so without a superstar. Most of them tanked at least for the tail end of a season to get said superstar.
3. There are three ways to get a superstar. Draft him, trade for him in the rare instance they become available, or sign him in free agency, which requires you already have one.
4. Our approach to the rebuild is four pronged. Acquire assets, tank for a better pick, and have cap room available, and player development.
5. None of those three teams are particularly close to winning a ship. Houston needs at least one more damn good player to get them over the hump in the West (also Houston only has super stars because of the acquire assets and cap space prongs), Toronto and Atlanta may win a ton of games in the regular season, but aren’t going to get past an Eastern Conference final.
6. Yes, this year isn’t going to be great, but we’re now talking about a 25-30 win team. WIth 4 first round picks (2 being very high), and Saric coming over next year. We won’t make all 4 picks but you could easily flip a couple and a player for say Paul George, and still have a lottery pick and a mid to late first for a young wing and point guard. And you still have enough cap room to make a run at any FA you want.
7. So there is a legitimate argument to be made that you as a fan just want to watch a 45-50 win team each year. Forget championships, you have to get all the right breaks for that to happen, let’s just be consistently good and maybe we unearth a superstar and we’re off to the races. If not well at least you got to watch a competitive team play a round or two in the playoffs every year. That’s a fine argument.
8. But there is no argument to be made that the likely hood of point 7 is more likely to lead to a championship contender than the approach Hinkie is taking.
I think you understand my point of view. I do disagree with most of your points. 🙂 Hinkie must eventually be judged on whether or not he acquires good players. Gee whiz moves and winning the salary cap prove… very little.
Houston/Vancover/Atlanta is a great model because they are doing lots of small, smart, non-flashy things and that’s why they are successful. They need a bit more, but they will keep working at it. You could also put SA in that category for 2013. They had fallen into relative mediocrity, but came up with Kawhi Leonard.
The evidence is that the way to get great in the NBA is to first get good. There is no evidence that trying to draft the savior gets you to a ‘ship, and little evidence that it even raises you from the bottom of the rankings.
Ok but even if “the process” fails, in two years you’re at least as good as all of those teams. Even if you don’t get the superstar you’ve got multiple young all-star caliber players, and you can just go sign those mid tier FAs anyways.
Also as I said, it’s not like the sixers aren’t doing those little things as well. They uncovered Robert Covington. Richaun Holmes and Jerami Grant look to be solid rotational guys who just need some time to grow into their games. They are doing a good job at developing players.
Basically let’s check back in 12 months.
Also literally the only reason Morey is well regarded is because of “gee whiz” moves.
Also Vancouver is a terrible model to emulate, because they don’t have a team 😛
What? There is no guarantee the picks he’s hoarding are going to turn into anything at all. That’s the point. If he finds good players, he’s good. If he whiffs, he’s not. Lots of loser teams manage to blow their draft picks over and over.
If his players contribute to winning lots of games, he’s developed them, if they do not, he has not developed them.
I just don’t understand why he is getting so much cred from having done nothing. It’s not like Chip, who actually has won a billion games in college and 20 in 2 years in college.
Morey is well-regarded because he’s put together good teams, often from marginally-regarded players. Vancouver? $hit, I knew I was going to do that 🙂
This has been discussed on Liberty Ballers over and over and over. I don’t think the evidence does support your assertion that if you get to good, then you will get to great. The evidence is you need elite talent to win a championship. And with the stupid cap rules, if you are terrible then the draft is the best source to try to find that elite talent.
and I don’t agree that you judge him on “getting good players”. If you believe it’s the process, then grade the process. If you are playing poker etc. and you take calculated odds, you are not wrong if someone gets their card on the river to beat the odds.
Houston is where Hinkie came from. He got the job
in Philly based in large part of his description as to how Houston stockpiled assets etc and eventually moved that for talent. How can you say Hinkie is doing it wrong but he should be more like Houston, when he came from there.
Yeah, “process” is being abused here in this argument.
Hinkie fans are a priori judging his tank-strategy as correct, even though it has never worked in the history of the NBA. It is actually flabbergasting. Whether or not it works, whether it has ever worked, he has convinced people that he is doing it right.
How many titles do those 3 teams have combined over the last 15 years?
The Heat won on drafting a superstar in Dwayne Wade at 5th overall so that they could attract other super stars.
The Spurs won by having sucking so badly that they got Tim Duncan 1st overall.
Fact is you need at least 1 super star to attract others (and you need at least 1 to win a ring) and the best way getting a super star is high in the draft
I disagree. It shows exactly why Hinkie’s plan is the correct one: You can’t count on lottery picks becoming superstars, so you better get a bunch of them.
That’s right, because what’s better than one trip to a casino? Two!
Depends on whose money you’re betting.
Also what game you play and how good you are at it.
I’m psyched about seeing Okafor and Noel together!
I’m both.
I’m generally reluctant to get on too high a horse and crticize these guys. When I was their age, I did a bunch of stupid things. If I had the talent, fame and money back then, I wonder how I might have acted.
Having said that, I have immense respect for these young men who do handle themselves with maturity and focus. That Chip is forming a squad of such guys makes it very easy to be an Eagles fan. Back when we got T.O., I remember saying, “Yea, but he’s our a***hole now.” There’s no one remotely like that on the team now. Having an admirable group of athletes win the Lombardi would be a dream come true.
I don’t get the JPP hate. Sure he’s a dumbass and plays for the Giants but I don’t hear anything like him beating up women or getting DUIs. People take sports too seriously when they applaud players that are also decent humans getting hurt.
He just comes across as an ass. After reading the incident with him and Prince A in the locker room it confirmed that. Just seems like a bully. He has the ability to be a truly great FB player but just doesn’t want to give the effort.
I remember when Jerry Rice said that Moss would have been the best receiver of all time without question if he just applied himself more.
Even if he’s an ass or doesn’t play up to his potential because of work ethic or whatever, that doesn’t mean he deserves to lose a finger.
Injuries are an inevitable part of the game (as we know) so it’s hard to feel sorry when it happens, but you definitely don’t want to see something crazy like losing a finger. Big difference between pulling a hammy and losing a finger.
Thing is most of us were young at one time and often doing stupid things? But when a high-profile athlete does it, people will criticize and moralize.
Chip appears to be doing something very unusual here in Philly. He really believes his system and culture will win out over a typical NFL mix of personalities that will almost inevitably be more talented. DeSean called him “naive” for believing that. We’ll see.
Until then, I say this is DeSean’s theme song:
https://youtu.be/CtwJvgPJ9xw?t=14s
Not sure I agree that they’ll be more talented. The thing about culture guys is that they develop their skills, so the product they put on the field is superior to untapped potential. We aren’t talking about a team of Avants. Agholor, Matthews, Murray, Bradford, Alonso, Jenkins. These guys have some talent to back up their character.
I don’t think in anyway he deserves to lose a finger. I’ve never made a comment that comes close to me saying he deserved to lose a finger. I feel bad for the guy.
I’m not disagreeing that he’s an ass but I don’t see enough hate for a sane person to actually cheer for him losing a finger. A guy like Incognito or Hardy? Sure I can understand that.
Lets hope he doesn’t reach his potential with the Giants. I’m fine with that. They already have ODB and that’s enough freaky good players I want to face twice a season.
In no way am I happy about his finger. I truly wish the best for him in that regard. I’m not one of those people that is bashing him for this incident. I’m 26 so I still do risky things like that at times. I just think with previous things he has done he is an ass, but I still wish him the best.
I don’t think the missing finger will impact him as much as some people think. I think he will adapt, and with the talent he has he can still be elite. This could even be a wake-up call for him.
Riley Cooper got cut?
I was so excited Kenny Chesna was in town I forgot about Riley.
As crazy as TO was, the one thing I always respected about him was his work ethic. He trained harder than most, practiced harder than most, and wanted to win more than most. His only problem was his ego. If he kept that in check, I really think he’d still be playing now.
TO’s biggest problem was his agent.
If TO had had another agent, he would have stayed an Eagle.
I did stupid things too, sure. But, I also didn’t have millions of dollars on the line with little else to fall back on if it was suddenly taken all away. Plus, let’s be honest, when I was their age I was also working my way through medschool while joining the army to pay for it, and that was at 21 years old. DeSean is 28 now he’s not a teenager, he’s a grown man that acts like an idiot.
Perspective: “a particular attitude toward or way of regarding something; a point of view.” It can aid one in seeing the half-full glass, and it can totally obscure the glass from one’s eyes. JJ Watt is exploiting his abilities to maximize his impact, and DeSean is a guy trippin’ on his own reflection. To bring the comparison between DeSean and Jordan and Nelson some added perspective, when you look at all of them next to Dez Bryant, it IS close…very close.
I’m struck by how in both 2009 and 2010 the Eagles and the Giants choose the same position in the first round, the Eagles going with the accomplished college athlete and the Giants going for the athletic freak with upside. And, for several years, it seemed that the Giants made the right choice (Nicks vs Maclin, JPP vs. Graham). Not so much now.
Giants have luck.The helmet catch. Getting players/coaches to play optimally before they start sucking (Burress/JPP/Nicks). Hitting their stride when it matters. Winning with Eli somehow. Drafting ODB. It’s disgusting to think about really. The only thing even remotely positive is that they beat the Cheatriots.
Our bad luck struck early… Graham’s career was really derailed by the microfracture surgery, and then when he was back from that he had that dope Washburn coaching him. Remember when he busted out for like 6 sacks in the last 5 games after Wash was canned?
Seems like the tables have turned in the luck department now though.
Graham’s knee issues were caused by that horrible cheap shot chop block put on his knee by Tyson Clabo. That still needs to be avenged. Graham also lost a lot of progress in 2010 because he was misused by idiot McDermott.
Crazy how these things work out.
Takes a couple years to fairly evaluate a draft.
Or, maybe actually a career 🙂
I’m a BG supporter but how do you say that? JPPs career has been far superior to BGs so far and I don’t think the missing index finger will end up affecting him all that much. Might actually be a wake up call for him.
OMG…Just finished watching the best UFC fight card that I have ever seen.
If you missed it, I suggest you look for the replay.
I don’t want to give away any spoilers but I will say you will be amazed.
Good article Tommy; I’m not sure why it is so hard to understand that Kelly puts as much emphasis on positive personality traits as he does physical measureables.
I think in people’s minds they romanticize the “bad boys.” The Dallas Cowboys of the 90s, the Detroit Pistons of the 80s, people believe it only takes talent, but don’t pay attention to the hard work behind the scenes.
Would be interesting to measure fan response to this by age groupings.
I have to say, I’m down with this aspect (discipline) of the Kelly regime. DeThug is the antithesis of what Kelly is about / what he is trying to build. I’ve never had a problem with dumping his ass… In fact, allowing Jackson to go on a wildcat strike during the season he wanted a new contract ended up being one of the turning points in Andy Reid’s tenure.
Agreed. It was sad to watch how the team fell apart at the end of Reid’s regime. He went from the head assed coach who made George Hegamin push a sled up and down the field for an hour after practice for leaving camp for one day to sulk over being demoted and then promptly cut him after dolling out that punishment, to being a guy that let his players get away with almost anything. Watching him reward DeSean’s behavior and tolerate guys like Asante who openly talked about getting paid for INTs and not tackling who led the DBs onto the practice field every day chanting “Get money!”. Watching him sit by idly allowing the lack of effort from DRC and Nnamdi and seeing our tackling skills and effort nose dive was just disheartening.
I think Jackson would still be an Eagle if he had lost his father after reading more about what he meant for Jackson.
Take Kiko Alonso, he was worse than Jackson in terms of doing stupid shit and got suspended by Kelly at Oregon and now Kelly traded for him
I agree you can win with talented players with character flaws. It has happened many times. I think it is getting harder and harder, however.
With the spread of social media, recording devices in every pocket, societal expectation, and 24-hour sports-focused channels, it is much harder for players to have a flawed private life without it spilling over. Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle would have been at home watching the games with Josh Gordon, Wilt Chamberlin would have been overwhelmed with paternity and date rape rumors.
Right or wrong, it is today’s reality. It is smart to build a team around that reality.
Everyone’s discussing the amputated finger because that’s what’s in all the head lines and catches people’s attention, but the real dagger to his season is the skin graft! Losing an index finger sucks and will effect his grip, but not to the point that he can’t rush the passer anymore. DE can play with a club on their hands and still be reasonably effective. But, a skin graft takes FOREVER to heal, has a huge complication rate, and often doesn’t take completely and can require more than one surgery as well.
If the blast was bad enough to require a digit amputation, a skin graft and caused a broken thumb bone, I’m sure they had to debride a good amount of muscle too. His hand will not be very functional at all this year, it’s not like his hand will be just the same, only with 4 fingers instead of 5. So while the index finger isn’t nearly as important to grip and strength as the thumb and the middle two fingers, this injury will cause him a lot of problems this year.
Yep I think it will have a serious impact.
This might start a flame war in here and I’ll prefice the statement with acknowledging that some type of discipline should come down from the league; but how old/big does the “minor” have to be before one can consider the Aaron Kromer charges to not be that big of a deal from the assault end?
The “I’ll kill your family if you go to the cops” part of the whole thing is completely and totally vile and he should be punished for that statement, but I’m going with a “over 16 years old”, “over 5-10”, and “over 175 lbs” as the cut line for me really thinking throwing a thief of out of a chair and punching them in the face is a big deal.
I read an article, but it doesn’t really say how it went from “I think they are sitting in our chairs” or were they standing and fishing but had moved the chairs earlier. So was Aaron saying “get out of my chair” or was he saying “you need to move those empty chairs back to where I had them”. Really, either way….how is punching the kid ok?
if you are moving into the area where the kids physically threatened him, then who knows but you are just making up facts.
being involved with professional sports, you need to know not to do shit like this. And he is with his son right, so nice teaching moment.
I’m sure the particulars of the case are going to mold how I much I’ll ultimately feel Kromer should be punished, but if he punched some smart mouth 17 year old I’m not going to have a lot of concern that the league really needs to punish Kromer. If he struck a 12 year old, I’ll be livid if he’s not gone from the league.
Ok let’s agree to revisit when we know more. Not much else going on.
Some kids were sitting in his beach chair.
If a 48 year old man can’t think of a way of resolving that situation that doesn’t end with him punching a kid and threatening to kill his family I’m not going to waste time feeling sorry for him.
Possible the kids are lying, of course.
not to play high horse, but do you see the Eagles assistants doing this? I don’t. What shenanigans. Maybe he had been drinking. But I’d start taking bets he isn’t with the team long. What a stupid distraction for the team.
Even if the kids are telling the truth, I’d find it funny if one of them was 17, running his mouth, and got knocked out over it.
I don’t think Kromer should escape punishment (no matter the context), but some folks need to learn that you need to watch what you say and do and to whom you do it.
Now if the kid he punched was 12, Kromer can be gone from the NFL for good.
I’ve since read this was around 1 in the morning. wth? certainly increases odds that some of the players were drinking.
I think he was finally arrested that late. The actual incident may have taken place a few hours earlier.
Good point.
Seems like fair criteria.
“…the strongest group of rookie DBs I’ve ever been around”…Conner Barwin
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Barwin-An-Exceptional-Group-Of-Rookies/bc313732-23db-4f05-afa9-6dc262bd83ac
He also had praise for Marcus Smith.
I love the approach Chip is taking in building the Eagles. In fact, were the fan base given complete access to the inner workings, even the most jaded nega-delphians would come away with a better than glass half-full outlook.
Imagine having access to the background checks and psychological profiles of all the players. It’s the closest you can come to measuring the “heart” and motivation as it relates to projecting the intangibles that aid a player in competing and contributing in the NFL. Would be fascinating to see how a player like Danny Watkins would have graded out applying Chip’s criteria – measurables and skill sets a fit, but would the psychological profile have kept him off a Chip Kelly draft board?
Will also be interesting how this team building approach affects Chip the GM when it comes to contract negotiations. The talent exiting the Eagles organization certainly have been well compensated in their moves to new teams. With the cost of a franchise QB exceeding $20M/yr., I can imagine a good number of key Eagles’ players electing to remain an integral piece in the march towards SB wins vs. max contracts. Hopefully, for every Maclin type exits, we’ll have multiple Kelce-like signings.
And you can’t say enough about Lurie’s willingness to provide Chip with the resources needed to implement his plan. So many leaders get tripped up by internal politics and power struggles, coupled with inflated expectations. Lurie made the right call choosing Chip over Howie.
Training Camp cuts this year will be agonizing.
Training Camp cuts this year will be agonizing.
*rips open shirt and falls to knees*
MOMAAAAAAHHHH!!!
I mean I’m still in mourning over Manhart. Somehow that’s my least favorite off season move.
I’m strange.
“Would be fascinating to see how a player like Danny Watkins would have graded out applying Chip’s criteria”
Considering Watkins was a completely underhanded con man, he would have fooled everybody.
https://twitter.com/lesbowen/status/545230210481012736
Perhaps, though Chip has been very hands on in the pre-draft player assessments – especially with the early rounds selections. Chip being a football-passion-to-the-core type individual, I like to think he’s developed a keen bs meter when it comes to assessing another’s professed love and motivation for the game (not just players, but coaches, assistants, support staff, owners, etc.).
And it’s not like he’s telling players they can’t have outside interests and business dealings – Malcolm Jenkins has a bow tie business, Trent Cole was an avid hunter and outdoorsman, Connor Barwin does a lot of charity and community work.
From what I remember of the SI piece on DW, there were a lot of yellow flags surrounding his mere involvement in the game of football, let alone his motivation(s) for playing. I just don’t see Chip taking a first round flyer on someone like that, and believe his processes, criteria, and approach to player evaluation would have kept DW off the board.
Maybe Chip would have been more critical of his age as well.
I’m hoping we get that 8 (+/- 2) sack season out of Smith that you’d expect from a first round draft pick OLB in his 2nd season.
I thought this was interesting read of ranking the QB’s. I guess I chuckle at the fact he has Brady 7th and Manning 1st. I think he makes a good argument. Maybe I wouldn’t have Brady way back at 7, but his SB wins get a way, way disproportionate amount of credit as does Manning’s post season losses. One good point made is that the coaching between the 2 has a wide gap. thoughts?
http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-brad-oremlands-best-qbs-in-history-1-5/
A tailor-made argument catalyst that has Douchebag Elway ranked above Aaron Rodgers AND Kurt Warner AND Roger Staubach. Any such list is going to be highly subjective I suppose, but when Otto Graham and even Johnny U played, the game was much slower than it is now. Manning’s PS losses may not be a valid criteria to go on, but if you’re going to put him #1 on a comprehensive list like that one, for as many seasons and games as he played, to have just one Lombardi should immediately knock him out of the #1 slot, IMHO. A great distraction from pre TC angst.
so you said PS losses may not be a valid criteria…and that his only winning 1 SB knocks him out in the same sentence. I don’t see how winning multiple SB’s can be a hard and fast rule for grading all time QB’s.
Belicheck also is >>>> Manning’s coaches.
He has played forever, and his goofy brother has more championships than him. I don’t deny he’s great – or has been, but on a list that spans decades and leaves no one off, I would put Montana and/or Rodgers ahead of PM. I completely agree that coaching and team are both critical to any assessment, but Indy was not bad when Dungy took over, and I may not expect the best QB ever to go to the SB every year, but his team should win when they do go. I think Peyton may have been at a disadvantage playing in a dome. It isn’t great preparation for playoff competition IMO.
QB rankings are fun, but I’d take a ton of guys over that overrated dope Kurt Warner.
He has Warner 32 and have Cunningham at 26 and McNabb at 24th.
To each his own. I think Elway and Favre are overrated. I’d take Warner over either of them.
[…] Risk – Tommy Lawlor of IgglesBlitz.com […]
To say that matthews and agholor arent even close to Jackson is unfair. Thats 1 season in between them both. Matthews rookie season is essentially better than deseans, only 40 yds less with 5 more TDs and 5 more receptions. Different players, different offense but to say that its not even close is a rather big assumption.