Time for a Switch?
Posted: October 28th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 338 Comments »Sam Bradford is not having a good season. The numbers bear that out, in terms of passing stats, points scored and wins. None of those metrics is favorable to Sam.
He does not pass the eye test. You don’t watch him and come away saying “I know things aren’t clicking right now, but you can see this guy can be something special.”
So if this is true, why not make the change and go with Mark Sanchez?
There is a case to be made for making the change. I think the smarter course of action is to stick with Sam…for now.
We saw Mark Sanchez start for half of last season. He did some things well, but wasn’t good in other areas. I think most people came away with the conclusion that Sanchez is a good backup and can be an effective starter, but he’s not the guy you want leading your team.
The Sam Bradford we’ve seen from the first 7 games might fit that very same description. Why stick with him? Can he get any better? That’s the huge question.
More than a few people have the opinion that this is the very same Sam Bradford from St. Louis and the Eagles are wasting their time. Plenty of people didn’t like the move in the offseason and really hate it now. I think you have to understand Chip Kelly’s mindset.
He wants a great offense. After seeing Nick Foles start 18 games in 2013-14. Kelly could tell that wasn’t his guy. Foles posted amazing numbers in 2013, but anyone watching the tape knew a lot of things went right. Those numbers were a fluke. Kelly could keep Foles and win 10 games, but that’s not what he wanted. Kelly wanted a QB who had more talent and better potential.
Kelly would have loved to get Marcus Mariota, but that was a pipe dream. There weren’t very good realistic options out there. Kelly saw Bradford as a player worth rolling the dice on. Yes, there was risk. Sam hadn’t stayed healthy in the last 2 years. He wasn’t anything special when he did play for the Rams.
But…Bradford had potential. He was a legitimately great player in college. He showed big time flashes in St. Louis. Kelly figured that bringing in a talented, but flawed player like Bradford was worth the risk. When you don’t have ideal choices you have to figure out an option.
So Kelly made the deal.
Kelly knew there was risk, but he was willing to give this some time. The goal is to find the right QB to run the offense. People think Kelly wants someone with mobility. He is much more interested in a player who is a smart, accurate passer. Bradford fit that description.
To this point, Bradford has been disappointing. Can he get better? Kelly is going to find out, which I think is the right move. That doesn’t mean it will work. Sam might prove to the be the same guy that we see right now. But the risk is worth it. There isn’t a good option.
Give Bradford another 4 to 5 weeks. See if he improves. If not, you can still make the switch to Sanchez at that point and see what he does in the final month.
Bradford has improved since the season began. I know his numbers remain pedestrian, but watch the tape. He looks different. He is moving around better. He is throwing the ball more aggressively. He seems to be playing with more emotion.
Dropped passes have been an issue all year. Bradford has his share of the blame for that. He hasn’t been as accurate has expected. The guy in the summer put the ball right where it was supposed to go. For every precise throw this year, there are several that are better described as being in the right zip code. The passes are catchable, but aren’t getting caught. I don’t understand why, but this isn’t all on the receivers.
That’s part of the issue with Bradford. He hasn’t brought out the best in others. Some QBs do that, others don’t. Riley Cooper and Miles Austin both are playing better than expected. Most of the other pass catches would be described as some level of disappointing. That’s not all on Bradford, but for whatever reason, he’s not bringing out the best in those around him.
Maybe that changes after the bye. Maybe the week off is just what the doctor ordered and somehow will allow the players to clear their minds and start playing to their potential. Or maybe we get more of the same and remain utterly frustrated.
Kelly needs to find out if Bradford was a mistake or if he can play better. The only way to know for sure if to stick with the experiment. I would give it another month or so. Kelly might even stick with it for the rest of the year.
The worst thing you can do is flip flop between QBs. Look what Bill O’Brien did in Houston. He chose Hoyer, switched to Mallett and then went back to Hoyer. Mallett didn’t handle the situation well and just got cut. The Texans are 28th in the league in scoring and a decent number of those points came in garbage time of blowouts. O’Brien is now in danger of losing his job.
Trying to find the right QB isn’t easy. Seattle did a variety of things before they found Russell Wilson. Andy Dalton is having the best year of his career, but there were plenty of people telling the Bengals to get rid of him in the offseason. Andrew Luck has regressed this year for the Colts. I’d still take him in a heartbeat, but he’s not having a good year. Colin Kaepernick and RG3 both looked like elite stars not that long ago. And now both might be on the market in the offseason.
Finding the right QB is hard. Getting him to play at a consistently high level is even harder.
The Bradford experiment might end up failing, but Kelly was right to take a chance. Foles was a good guy, but never looked like a championship QB. If you don’t have that type of QB you have to take a chance in finding one. Soon enough we’ll find out there is hope for Bradford of if he’s a failure and the Eagles are right back at square one.
*****
Bill Barnwell covered the same subject for Grantland and came to a similar conclusion.
Think about what happened in Houston this year. Bill O’Brien started the year with Brian Hoyer and promptly benched him for Ryan Mallett during the fourth quarter of Week 1. When Mallett struggled under similar circumstances in subsequent weeks, O’Brien was basically stuck with Mallett as his quarterback until garbage time and injuries intervened to hand the job back to Hoyer, a move that disenfranchised Mallett altogether. O’Brien started with two mediocre quarterbacks and ended with two mediocre quarterbacks who had no confidence.2
It’s not crazy to imagine that occurring in Philadelphia if Kelly makes the switch to Sanchez. As much as Bradford has struggled, you can build a case that he needs more time to settle in the job than most other newly acquired passers. And while Sanchez’s 2014 was better than Bradford’s 2015, the Eagles traded for Bradford because they weren’t happy with what Sanchez accomplished during his half-year as the starter. The gap between the two isn’t large enough to justify turning the season over to Sanchez, at least not yet.
A coach needs to stick with his choice as long as he can. It helps him with team and it helps the players involved in the switch.
*****
Derek Sarley wrote about Bradford for The Daily News.
For as physically gifted as Bradford has always been, it seems he must have a mechanical issue affecting his accuracy this season. As nice a story as it was when Kelly hired his former New Hampshire player, Ryan Day, to be his quarterbacks coach, it’s fair to ask whether a spread-option guru from the college ranks is really the best choice to work with an NFL pocket passer.
It’s also unclear how much Kelly coaches quarterback mechanics. When we see videos of him from practice, he seems to spend a lot of time telling quarterbacks where to throw the football, but less on how to do it. That’s anecdotal, but fits with a guy who might be more offensive genius than quarterback whisperer.
Even if the Eagles don’t make the playoffs this year, that’s not a total harbinger of doom. In Mike McCarthy’s third season, the Green Bay Packers plummeted from 13 wins to six; they won a Super Bowl two years later. The Giants’ Tom Coughlin and Saints’ Sean Payton each finished 8-8 in his third season with his current team before winning the championship in his fourth.
All of those teams had both a quarterback and a coach in place, however. The Eagles are still just 1-for-2.
Those are legit concerns with Day and Kelly. Just because Chip can scheme and call plays doesn’t mean he can develop passers. And Day is a bit of a mystery to this point.
We’ll see how things go in the 2nd half of the year.
_
Yes it makes sense to stick with Bradford for now and see what he can do.
No it did not make sense to throw in a 2nd round pick in order to acquire him in the first place.
That’s my only residual level of disagreement with the deal. The original way it was reported was much better.
Maybe we can get Bill Lazor back from the Dolphins…
Finally — something that just might make sense…
Lions fired Joe Lombardi, who was their OC after previously being the QB coach in NO. maybe he’d go back to being a QB coach?
You might want to ask a few Detroit fans about that prior to hiring him.
Hey I’m going to totally hijack the thread for a second but, I missed the Sixers game tonight, but looking at the box score it looks like Noel and Okafor really shined. Anyone catch the game care to weigh in? Noel with solid offense and great rebounds/blocks/steals and Okafor with big numbers on offense.
Wish I had seen the game but it appears like it was a great start.
Okafor also had 8 turnovers. Wouldn’t pass the ball out of double teams (he’s a rookie so that happens). Really need a PG and Covington.
Yeah I saw the 8 TO’s, typical for a rookie I think, but still promising offense right?
This isn’t the Sixers year to shine, its still developmental, but maybe by the time next year rolls around they’ll be ready to start making some noise.
I hear ya. BTW, his 26 pts were the 2nd most by a Center in his NBA debut. The most? Kareem Abdul Jabbar, with 29. A good debut indeed.
Nobody moves when he gets double teamed, so that didn’t help him out any. Stauskas Covington and a decent PG would have really helped tonight
I think this sums it up perfectly. PG play last night was terrible.
Okafor used his length and touch to score, Wont work against bigger and quicker opponents, like D. Jordan. He will need to develop a fadeaway.
The offense looked comically vanilla. It was, go to the wing, pass to the big who passes to the other wing, then dump it into the post offense.
jakar Sampson sucks.
Every player Is one dimensional offensively. Okafor showed touch on his jumper. Noel needs more moves in the post.
Defensively they looked better, but they can’t cover the mid range swing game.
Noel is a superstar on defense, point blank. The guy is talented. Steals, blocks. That was the only thing bearable to watch.
Okafor did score in the post and cannan hoisted up a lot of threes, some of which sank as his usual. But Okafor is not gonna be able to do that night in and night out. he didn’t pass out of the double team well. They desperately need some sort of go to play on offense. Nik staskus or wroten are the only players I see changing this.
Convington, I cant remember if it was this game or the preseason game before. but he needs to stop driving so much with the ball. His ball handling is not high level. He is not crafty or serviceable. He needs to catch and shoot.
I think they playing vanilla on purpose.
Why they allow jakar Sampson to run into the lane aimlessly on offense is beyond me. It looks silly, he looks silly. They should stop insulting my intelligence.
I hate jakar sampsons game. Where was grant? idk. I saw him take a three pointer.
The only thing to me worth watching on this team is Noels post defense.
Okafor is kinda slow and lumbering. Is a stretch out scorer. Doesn’t really bully guys, doesn’t jump that well.
maybe they can get him on some pick and pop action.
also, the sixers suck at setting picks. especially okafor.
all in all, better than what I saw last year.
Here’s a crazy scenario for you, lets say Andrew Luck decides that Indy is a dysfunctional mess and doesn’t want to re-up with the Colts. In some crazy, weird, alternate universe, can you imagine Luck coming to Philly to team up with Chip Kelly?
Even though Chip Kelly wants that smart pocket passer, Luck has the added bonus of being a guy with the mobility to make those option runs work too.
Obviously we’d have to wait another year to get him but… Just saying, what if.
I was literally about to type this. That whole Colts organization seems to be in turmoil right now. Wouldn’t it be great if Luck said, “hey, Kelly looks appealing, I think I’ll try there.”
Trade chip to the colts for a second rounder.
That would be great, but that owner would get rid of every single last person on that team before he got rid of Luck.
Even after his option year next year the Colts still have the ability to tag him for multiple seasons after that. Jim Irsay would rather give up his oxi’s than let Luck go. Never going to happen.
The more likely scenario (althought still in the no chance in hell category) would be Chip going to Indy either through a trade (Chip gets frustrated about Eagles QB situation and threatens to take a college job if he isn’t traded)
Forgot about the tag. The dream is dead. What is there left to live for.
That’s a wonderful dream…but other than the Eagles, first-string QBs with a pedigree never seem to move in this league. I think Luck’s throwing arm is hurt and he’s gutting it out. He’d serve his career and his team better by sitting.
Let’s trade for Rodgers and Brady too.
“The Bradford experiment might end up failing, but Kelly was right to take a chance.”
Sorry Tommy, but I have to disagree with you on this. Taking a chance is different from taking THE RIGHT chance at THE RIGHT time. I agree that Bradford was likely the best QB that was available to take a chance on this offseason, but being the best available doesn’t make you actually good. Bradford’s flaws were well documented prior to coming here and chance Kelly took was based on what Bradford had accomplished 4 to 5 years ago before two ACL injuries. Foles may not have been the ideal QB for Kelly, but giving up Foles plus a 2nd round pick means you are no longer giving up JUST a player that doesn’t have good value to you but you are adding a resource that has significant value. When you do that, you need to assure yourself that the chance you are taking has a higher probability of success than what I think many fans believed Bradford offered.
The right chance at the right time isn’t apparent until after the fact. You can only say that with the benefit of hindsight. If you knew it was the “right chance” before taking it, there would be no chance involved whatsoever. You’d be dealing with certainties.
The results aren’t great so far, but the chance was worth taking, and Kelly was right to take it.
Not really fair, in this case. At the time we traded for Bradford , plenty of people (not sure if Iskar was one) said this wasn’t ‘the right chance’. For essentially the same reasons they are saying now – NFL tape wasn’t great, $ were too high, and the compensation (Foles + rd 2) was also too high. That was all without the benefit of hindsight. (Edit: injury risk was probably the other factor mentioned, but that hasn’t struck so far)
Having said that, I think once the deal was made, we were committed to Bradford for more than 7 games (barring injury). We’ve already paid to see if Bradford can become a quality NFL QB – might as well keep drawing ‘free’ cards to see if we can get the royal flush.
I was about to reply but you said it for me. I absolutely hated the trade at the time for all those reasons and thought the risk was WAY to high for what we gave up. When I say “right chance at the right time” I don’t mean the move has to work out. What I mean is that the risk has to be justified at the time of the trade. With Bradford, at the time I did not think it was along with many eagles fans (and just fans of the nfl in general).
this debate reminds me of the Sixes and Embiid. You are replacing your opinion for Chip’s. I know that’s what blogs are for, but I trust Chip studied the decision more than you. And if Bradford doesn’t work out, that doesn’t mean you were right. Getting a franchise QB or franchise NBA player is a risk if you don’t have the number one pick in the right year, so you have to take a chance.
There was plenty of data that Bradford sucked before this trade.
There is also plenty of data that Hinkie’s plan won’t work either.
This is just a place to talk, no one here thinks the GMs are going to be influenced one iota by our opinions.
Hinkie’s plan has never really been tried before, so I’m not sure that it’s fair to say there’s data suggesting it won’t work. Plenty of teams have tried to tank, sure, but few have ever been as committed to pursuing it as a strategy until they land a bona fide superstar as Hinkie is. Once all these first rounders he has stashed are in the fold it will be easier to evaluate.
of course and I tried to make a point that I know that is what blogs are for. I do the same.
I’m trying to make the point that the test here is really what are the true odds versus what he paid. And I just don’t know how to evaluate that. People can say “Bradford sucked and I knew it” and maybe that’s true. But it’s hard to put into the computer things like how hard it is to get a franchise QB plus how important it is plus the true % chance Bradford can be one + what is that worth in a trade. Who the heck knows.
And if I give you 80% odds on a coin flip and you bet and lose, you weren’t wrong to make the bet. So to others who say if Bradford is not a franchise QB then ipso facto Chip was WRONG, that’s just not true. It’s about the process.
I’m sure Chip studied it WAAAAY more than anyone here. I don’t question that he had reasons to go with Bradford over Foles, but using your logic, are we just supposed to always assume the GM is making the right move and agree with him? No. I accept Chip has his opinions and thay they aren’t just throwing darts at a wall, but I also recognize just like any GM of any team, he isn’t going to get everything right. I form my own opinion on what I think is the right and wrong move and don’t just blindly say, “because WE made the move, it must be correct.” Sure, my opinions may prove to be completely wrong, and frankly, I would hope that in the times I disagree with Chip I am wrong more often than I’m right, but I will still form an opinion and on a blog, I will express that opinion. In this case I think Chip made a poor decision. I said it at the time of the move. The fact that it has gone that way so far supports my opinion. Had it gone another way, I would gladly say I was wrong (for example, I was very much against signing Sproles at the time, and after last season, I fessed up I was absolutely wrong on that opinion). And while I agree the outcome of the move doesn’t necessarily mean the move was right or wrong in the first place, I stand by my opinion as well as plenty of well informed football fans, that I would not have done the move at the time.
Chip may have studied more tape than we have, but if Bradford doesn’t work out, actually, yes, it does mean that we were right, because our contention was “Bradford hasn’t ever been a good NFL player and it’s not worth giving up a high draft pick to acquire him”. Kelly knows more about football than fans like us ever will but that doesn’t mean there aren’t times when his judgment is wrong and ours is right.
The difference is that Embiid’s on rookie contract, and with his level of skill, it’s a free gamble. Also, Embiid’s skill at center is VASTLY higher than Bradford’s skill at QB.
The guy hasn’t won when healthy, and isn’t winning now. And isn’t that the criteria, winning? Especially when the QB you traded went 14-4 in your system.
You traded a non-sexy, but workable car for a banged up car that was once a Nexus. It’s CRAP now, whether Chip likes it or not.
And no, this is always the bad move to make(and Hinkie doesn’t make this move in a comparable situation). What Hinkie would’ve done, is waited for the Rams to release Bradford(which they were leaning towards doing)
I don’t believe the Cleveland Browns would’ve seriously pulled the trigger, I also don’t believe he remotely qualified on the market as a Mariota chip. I think the Cleveland stuff was St.Louis artificially driving up his price.
I would’ve easily called their bluff and hung up the phone. I could’ve at least saved the 2nd rounder.
The problem with your logic is that it can be used to retroactively justify pretty much any bad decision. Mike Mamula over Warren Sapp? There was a chance that Mamula would turn out to be the next Charles Haley as Ray Rhodes envisioned and Sapp would wash out of the NFL because of drugs. It was a risk worth taking – wait, no it wasn’t. Sapp was an all-time great college player who had been talked about as a potential #1 overall pick and Mamula had an impressive workout at the combine. Freddie Mitchell over Reggie Wayne? There was a chance Wayne’s college success was due to playing in a system and his lack of elite speed meant he wouldn’t be a great NFL player. It was a risk worth taking – wait, no it wasn’t, because whatever his flaws as a prospect Wayne was more accomplished and highly regarded than Mitchell and that was borne out in their respective NFL careers.
You don’t just take risks because “it’s worth taking chances”. You have to take calculated risks. A lot of people, myself included, saw absolutely no evidence in Sam Bradford’s injury riddled, thoroughly mediocre 5 year career prior to coming to the Eagles of the proposition that he was actually a franchise quarterback waiting to blossom. Indeed, if he had been, he’d be one of the only players in NFL history to play so poorly over his first half decade in the league and then morph into a good quarterback. Who else followed that career trajectory? Vinny Testaverde is the only one I can think of. The actual results so far back those of us who thought hitching the wagon to Sam Bradford was a bad risk and that it was dumb of Kelly to do it. You can’t just wish that away by saying “it was a risk worth taking because in my head Bradford could’ve played like a franchise quarterback”. He hasn’t, and you have to deal with reality – a reality which so far it appears other people predicted better than you did.
Our 2nd round pick we gave away also could’ve ended up being a jaquan jarrett or a nate allen or anyone else. There’s nothing to say, even at this very moment, that we for sure would be better off not making the trade he made.
Every person can have their own opinion, the FACT is no one is right at this time. Bradford hasn’t played up to what Chip envisioned, it still has not proven his trade to be wrong.
This is a really stupid argument, I think it can be re-addressed at a later point down the road.
I agree it’s too early to close the books on the deal. All we have so far is preliminary evidence in these first 7 games. It is possible that Bradford will pull it together and play well enough to justify the trade from here on out, and we’ll look back at this as a speed bump in the future. I don’t deny that. All I’m saying is that what we’ve seen on the field so far supports the “meet the new Sam Bradford, same as the old Sam Bradford” hypothesis instead.
The draft is 100% calculated risk. Taking Mamula wasn’t the risk. Taking Sapp would have been. It worked out for Tampa, but picks like him flame out all the time.
Bradford had a great pedigree and had shown flashes of talent. He had also shown inconsistency and flashes of bad play that well could have been attributed to the situation. He was the very definition of a calculated risk.
Every decision ever made in the league will have people say, “it won’t work out!”. Every signing like this has fans who just “know” EXACTLY what will happen. And it’s really funny how you never hear from those same fans when their iron clad predictions were wrong.
Jury’s still out on Bradford. You, the fan, based on your analysis, predict abject failure in the experiment. Chip, the coach and GM, based on his analysis and the analysis of the staff paid to analyze players professionally, feel differently. I’m not saying they’re going to be right, because I don’t know. But I’m willing to trust their judgement in what is a calculated risk and what is a foolish error a little bit more right now than fans from a fanbase notorious for trending negative in all situations.
Taking Mamula wasn’t the risk.
Taking a guy who had okay – not great – college tape and was projected as a 3rd round pick before the Combine based on workout numbers he put up in gym shorts and a t-shirt with the 7th overall pick wasn’t a risk? I beg to differ. Character risks aren’t the only type you know.
Bradford had a great pedigree and had shown flashes of talent. He had also shown inconsistency and flashes of bad play that well could have been attributed to the situation.
The same could be said for David Carr, Tim Couch, Joey Harrington, and many other failed high first round QBs. History suggests that after five years in the league, it’s 99% likely that a guy is what he is and Bradford had never consistently played like anything more than a mediocre quarterback. He is also injury prone. Taking a calculated risk on a guy like that by giving him a reasonable free agent contract? Sure, I’ll go for that. But giving up a second round pick, + your current starting QB who despite his clear flaws has accomplished more in 2 seasons as an NFL starter than Bradford has in 5? No way. To use Chip’s analogy of real estate from the draft, that’s paying mainline mansion prices for a fixer upper that may or may not be built on contaminated land. Yes, it’s a risk that might work out, but that doesn’t make it one worth taking.
And it’s really funny how you never hear from those same fans when their iron clad predictions were wrong.
Except when you do. I don’t do predictions per se, but I was skeptical that Walter Thurmond could make the transition to safety and of the assertion that trading Brandon Boykin wouldn’t hurt our nickel defense. So far, wrong on both counts, and very happy to admit it.
But I’m willing to trust their judgement in what is a calculated risk and what is a foolish error a little bit more right now than fans from a fanbase notorious for trending negative in all situations.
You’re just appealing to authority here. Sometimes, the experts are wrong and the plebes are right – the emperor has no clothes. I’m not saying that’s the case with Chip, but the nice thing about sports is that there are very clear metrics for evaluating the success or failure of personnel decisions. So far, more of Chip’s decisions have failed than have succeeded, so it’s reasonable to question his judgment.
don’t forget about the shurmer influence.
Do you have an opinion on what the right risk was to take?
Roll with Foles or Sanchez? Or target a QB in the draft? If so which?
While I didn’t expect Sam to work I did agree that Foles wasn’t going to take us to the promised land. Sadly given our defence that might not have been the truth.
Save the money on Bradford, keep Mac and get a different 1st rd pick. Maybe we’d be marvelling at the D taking us to a 5-2 record.
As for sticking with Bradford over Sanchez, I agree that you have to give Bradford every chance to succeed possible before switching to Sanchez. We know what Sanchez’s ceiling is, and while Bradford’s ceiling is seeming to crumble after each week, I think there is still at least some chance he can improve.
With all of that said, I do think one component of this discussion that is clearly missing (at least if I understand the conditions of the trade correctly), is the fact that we would receive a 4th round pick if we benched Bradford the rest of the season (I believe that remains true through the next game, but I could be wrong). I think I still stick with Bradford regardless, but it is worth noting that a switch to Sanchez isn’t JUST going to lead to a different starting QB.
The problem Tommy that you fail to mention is that time is up on Sam Bradford. He has to be benched now to ensure that we will get a 4th round pick back. You have to salvage something from this completely awful trade.
If Chip didn’t tank the last game of last season to get a higher draft slot he’s not going to do this.
Yeah Sam isn’t any better than Mark. So there is no real disadvantages to benching Sam. Just you get a pick back in the long term. If chip sticks with sam to try and prove that he isn’t an idiot it will just make him more of an idiot.
If your top priority less than half way through the season becomes trying to salvage a 4th round pick, the idiot debate has been settled.
AMEN. Starting Sanchez would be admitting defeat on the season and the trade. Nobody, not event he players, would get behind that move.
I agree with you. But there’s a very real risk of sunk cost fallacy in situations like this and at a certain point Kelly has to be willing to admit the experiment has failed if Bradford continues to perform at a mediocre level.
That certain point to admit whether the experiment failed, succeeded or requires further evaluation is at the end of the season
You’re right chip is an idiot.
I would love to see the reasoning that led you to agree with my statement and reach that conclusion simultaneously.
He traded for Sam Bradford to be his starting QB. Only an idiot would ever do such a thing.
Seeing if Sam can grow into our franchise QB vs a 4th round pick is in no way equal.
He can’t. Sam sucked before the trade and he sucks now. Why do people think he will stop sucking?
i can’t get behind wait to week 12 to bench sanchez, either switch now, try to save the season or don’t switch and let him play it out.
kelly was lucky his first two years poor performing qbs got hurt allowing him to make the switch.
kelly really stood behind bradford in the pc, i think he player relatively well on sunday. Tommy’ do you have any insight on practice performance i’ve heard that bradford crushes it at practice and then gametime it’s………
“Twelve coaches have won a Super Bowl this century. Only Bill Cowher had been with his team longer than five years before he did it. Across all of NFL history, only Chuck Noll, Tom Landry and John Madden join Cowher in the Late Bloomer Club, suggesting NFL owners aren’t as patient as they once were and perhaps should be again.” DS
Interesting. But guys like Belichik and Carroll coached other teams before getting their 1st superbowl with current teams. I wonder how the breakdown of all the other coaches would be.
Tomlin & Harbaugh come to mind as ones that actually did it within five years.
I don’t know Coughlin’s numbers. Not really interested to look them up, but he must in some category too. LOL.
LOL
I think Coughlin has been coaching since Lombardi.
Tomlin inherited a franchise QB.
i remember this roto article from 2 years ago when i was screaming for landry 2.5 drop %
“The biggest player to watch out for here is Jordan Matthews who has a slightly above-average drop rate of 7.69%. There were a few 50/50 drops that I hedged on Matthews’ side for. He could realistically be anywhere between 7-11%. If you’re watching Matthews intently, keep an eye on his hands.”
Bradford is a disappointment but I think if he keeps playing this average, he will be given the rest of the year as the starter. He is not playing bad enough to be benched during the season, and not playing good enough to be extended after the season. Some weird middle area he is inhabiting. If an average playing Foles in 2014, being only a year from 27-2, was not good enough for Chip to keep, Bradford will have to turn it around to be kept. I was impressed with how Foles felt comfortable with Chip’s system, couldnt run the read option well, but did not have problems with the option routes, the way Bradford is having. Seems to me Bradford is having a harder time “thinking fast” the way Kelly wants. And the slow footed Foles I remember was praised for being a fast thinker. Kelly might be wondering if Bradford just does not have the quick twitch brain that his offense needs.
Kelly comes across as someone that would know pretty quickly after a few games, if a QB has what he is looking for. I would not be surprised if Kelly has already determined Bradford just is not made mentally to be a starter for his offense, but the fact that he went out and got Bradford means he already determined Sanchez does not have what it takes either to be a starter.
“People think Kelly wants someone with mobility. He is much more interested in a player who is a smart, accurate passer.”
I don’t ever want those people to get their way. I’m very happy that Chip is sticking with the plan of trying to find a real QB.
I think that quote is, well, garbage. Vick’s history is well documented. He’s not the most accurate passer, but was selected by CK over Foles. I never liked that decision (nor that quote). EVERY coach is looking for a player is smart and accurate. I don’t think you can run CK’s offense to the fullest without some mobility(which is why Vick was tabbed the starter). A lot easier to defend if you know the QB is not going to run.
Vick was tabbed as the starter in 2013 because he clearly outplayed Foles in the preseason. When Foles started lighting it up in the second half of the season, Kelly stuck with him even once Vick was healthy. It had nothing to do with mobility.
go check your numbers before commenting. Vick – CLEARLY did not.
No thanks. I don’t want any of those scrambling street trash QBs here.
I’m glad we have Sanchez here on a two year deal as a backup. I’m in favor of starting Bradford all 16 games no matter what.
If we decide Braford isn’t the guy and go draft another passer, we can have Sanchez start next year until the rookie is ready to go.
Best point so far.
The plan is to give Bradford the entire year. Like it or not, Chip will give him every chance to get things right.
Sanchez will not play unless there is an injury.
Chip gave Fletcher plenty of rope last year, I assume Sam has at least as much, and probably has a fair deal more.
My thoughts: Bradford hasn’t played in 2 years and he barely played in preseason. I’m sure his previous injuries are affecting his throwing mechanics. And Chip is leaning on him too much because the rushing game isn’t working as envisioned. The ideal number of passes per game is probably about 30 instead of 40/45 we’ve been seeing. The Oline is the next obvious upgrade project. I think it’s too early to talk about benching him. And without having access to the coach’s tape how can a fan properly evaluate his performance?
Thought of the morning: I’m starting to think the Colts and their coaching staff are falling victim to something the Redskins went through with RG3. The Golden Boy Syndrome. It has to be very hard on a coaching staff when you have a QB that can do no wrong in the eyes of the fan base and/or ownership. I have always thought that Luck, although a good player, was highly overrated. Keep in mind people thought he was HOF material before he took a snap in the NFL. Reports are saying Pagano’s job is on the line and just feel like it’s a tough spot to be in when you can’t hold the QB accountable for anything.
The 2nd round pick is the only thing that bothers me. Although, had Preseason Bradford stuck around into the regular season, I’d be totally cool with giving up the 2nd round pick.
Also, I agree. Stick with Bradford. Making the switch to Sanchez means you’ve given up on Bradford. Chip wouldn’t be able switch back then.
The problem is, a 2nd round pick is a significant thing to be bothered by. And for those that argue “well we could have used that draft pick to select the next J. Jarrett.” Yes, we could end up doing that… but that also set the franchise back. On the other hand we could end up drafting a quality starter.
I don’t mean to trivialize the pick. Pretty damn good players come out of the 2nd round. I’m just saying that paying 2nd rounder + Foles for the current version of Bradford is too much. However had we gotten the version of Bradford that we saw in the preseason, then I’ll be happy to pay a 2nd rounder.
I think Chip has to stick with Bradford until the Eagles are eliminated from playoff contention, he gets injured etc. I would only use Sanchez when forced to do so.
Chip made the choice, gave up Foles & the 2nd rd pick and the Eagles are paying Bradford $13M with the obvious need to know if he can be their QB of the present and future. They have to find that out and the only way to do that is to play him every down and do everything they can to help him succeed.
Sanchez is a backup QB with no upside. He can run the offense fine, but only really has the arm to pass within the hashes, throws too many INT, misses too many wide open options and, while more mobile than Bradford, under pressure has a history of serious fumbleitis.
With Bradford, at least we have the chance of upside and improved performance. The problem so far is we are getting 2014 Foles or Sanchez performance from Bradford. That is not what Chip wants or needs.
The big issue is to what degree does Bradford need to improve to earn the mega contract from the Eagles he’ll be looking for and is that even possible to show in the remaining 9 games? Could the Eagles and Bradford agree to a bridge type deal for 2-3 years at reasonable $$ to balance out the risk?
Because I’m not sure the Eagles can afford for Bradford to fail and walk away after this season. Then we’ll be entering Chip’s 4th year (on a 5 year deal) with no QB again and no better prospects for getting one. I think the Eagles are committed one way or another to Bradford either on the mega deal or some type of bridge deal. Chip’s program cannot advance without a capable QB and continuing to change them every year never works.
I think I might be the person who despise the Bradford trade the most. I expressed my concerns with Bradford from the moment we traded for him. I have criticized him constantly. I am not happy with Sam Bradford. Sam Bradford should be benched. As it is now, Bradford should not return after the season if he demands anywhere close to a real contract. I see the raw talent, I just dont see result. Bradford is not a good QB, drop the excuses, its simple. He will never be the guy to win this team or any other team a Super Bowl. Waste of a trade.
I’m not benching Sam Bradford for Mark Sanchez. The Sanchize is just as below average, but with zero chance of improvement, at least Bradford has a theoretical chance of being better.
Yet another off-season where the quarterback position is a question that needs an answer. It has been that way since we lost McNabb and without a QB, you’re irrelevant.
spot on…
Also, the Cowboys are a mess
https://twitter.com/clarencehilljr/status/659615898496462848
Yeah. Jerry doesn’t care.
Really interesting group of players. Could blow up fast if they don’t start winning.
Maybe that’s what Jerry wants? Fire everyone and go after Art Briles?
I wonder if Jerry is going down the Al Davis path of losing his mind.
Al Davis was a football genius at one point, though. So he has a long way to stumble before picking a kicker in the first round.
Jerruh made brilliant/lucky decision to hire Jimmy Johnson and was crazy lucky that a UDFA QB turned into a franchise player.
He deserves some credit for those two things, but Davis -even in last years (to an extent) -had a systematic and cultural way of thinking that produced results. Not luck.
“and was crazy lucky that a UDFA QB turned into a franchise player” there was a lot of persistence w/ romo. he’s been the quarterback for the better part of a decade and it’s only been the last couple of year where he’s really come into his own.
Correction: it’s only been the last couple of years where the media has given him credit for coming into his own.
Check out his stats. 7.9 Y/A; over twice as many TDs as I; 98% career QB rating. Sam Bradford has never even sniffed Tony’s worst season.
What has happened with Tony is some high-profile failures after carrying bad teams further than they should have gone. I’m not a Cowboy’s fan and I love to see Romo on the ground with a fat guy in a green uni on top of him, but dude can play.
He’s been pretty consistent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Romo#Career_statistics
Funny thing is, that kicker is still playing well nearly 20 years later. Watching how some teams (ahem, cough) deal with kicker issues, that’s not a bad long term pick.
Though I doubt Al saw that kind of career longevity.
I hear you, but don’t you think they could’ve traded down and gotten him in the early second round?
Probably. If he had taken a kicker in the second round, it would have been just as crazy.
Still though, he’s been with them for 15 years now. That’s great value for any round, playing at that level, even if it is a kicker. That’s even more crazy to me than the pick itself.
The trade down bit was a joke. Obviously he wouldn’t have dropped THAT far.
I do fundamentally agree that you should go with the player you value most, Davis probably wasn’t too versed on game theory though. He might have deployed his draft resources differently and gotten other key players in addition to Janikowski with a mid round selection. The draft involves “conventional wisdom” insofar as the majority of teams will have a conservative approach. The trick is knowing how to use that to get the best value for your own team.
I know Randle is a real leader of the team and this is just a way he shows his passion to all of us.
-Jerry Jones
Give that man a multi-year extension.
“Panties and perfume for everyone” Joseph Randle on what he’s getting his hall of fame OL after his 2000 yard rushing season
Word on the street is that he is traveling from one barbecue pit to another, walking in, yelling and pointing at customers, “You left a lot of meat on that bone!” and then storming out.
He was also heard mumbling to himself, “Christine is a girl’s name.” and “Bo don’t know Darren.” and twitching.
One guy wrote “he might get cut or traded”
Traded? Lol.
Hah. I had him on my fantasy team. Karma for drafting a Cowboy?
http://blogs.kcrw.com/rhythmplanet/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Chuck-Brown1.jpg
Leadership
Spot on Tommy. It’s one of those situations where I’m on board with whatever the coaches decide. A strong case can be made to go either way.
What(how?) does giving Sanchez the last month as a starter make any sense on any level? What will that accomplish? You can’t make a move for the sake of making a move. IF Bradford is so terrible going into the last month, the Eagles will already be out of contention. So, what’s the value again?
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The real issue is — if this IS only a .500 team — or a team that CK deems ‘not worthy’ (like last year) — what’s plan B? Sanchez is not, will not and can not be a starter IF we’re expected to complete. IS there a viable QB in next years draft, say at pick 10 or 12? What if there isn’t?
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Let’s say – Bradford stinks the rest of the season. We look to a QB in the draft and Sanchez starts next year. That means, the game plan is yet another 3-4 years away from contention. It was stated after the trade — and it still holds true — if Bradford stinks — we’re in the long haul for a couple of terrible years….
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Here’s to Bradford not stinking…..Obi Won Kanobi – you’re our only hope….
Good points in this article regarding Day.
It is, but at the same time it’s kind of a bummer to have a new place to point the finger at without any way to substantiate the suspicion. I suspect that won’t prevent people from running with it, with way too much conviction for a non-fact.
I dont look at it as fully pointing a finger at Day, but simply Day just being a small piece of the puzzle. After all he is the QB coach, some responsibility does fall on his shoulders.
Kelly will never bench Bradford. Doing so would be crossing a Rubicon I don’t think he’s ready to cross. You can’t very well go back to him if Sanchez flops, and it would also be tantamount to admitting he screwed up arguably the biggest decision of the offseason. Kelly’s a smart guy and he may not fall for the sunk cost fallacy to the extent that he gives Bradford a multiyear extension if he continues to play poorly. But barring injury I don’t see any way Kelly makes the switch before the end of the year, even though doing so is arguably the better move football-wise (not only was Sanchez better last year than Bradford’s been this year, but we’d also get a 4th round pick back).
Completely agreed. It would be egg all over Kelly’s face for him to bench Bradford.
Unless Bradford goes down to injury, he’ll be the starter the rest of the year regardless of performance. Feel strongly about that for several reasons with the biggest one being that Kelly has a real stubborn/defiant streak.
I think having to admit a mistake is the last reason why chip wont bench him…beimg sort enough to know it can take more than 7 games is why SAM isn’t getting benched… What we think is the last thng chip cares about and he has the job security to know that even if he makes an obvious mistake he will still have plenty of chances to fix his reputation.. Say we finish 6 and 10 which is basically Rock Bottom, im sure he realizes how fair weathered we are and that if he performs well next year, a mistake or bad decision from the year prior will be Quickily mistaken
Sam Bradford sucks
yes, at this point he does, you’ve sucked all your teenage life
I’m only 12.not a teen yet
What a cute little jab, you silly joke.
Bradford looks really bad there but could be some hope that he might not be bad as he looks because absolutely nobody is helping him, especially Chip, his play calling has been abysmal this season outside of Jets and Saints game. Frequently leaving the offense in 3rd and longs.
Yeah, I really wonder what happens if Huff catches that pass before halftime.
It’s shocking how little help he gets. Hopefully Agoholar will excel as Sam’s favorite target.
Ags had a real bad case of the drops in the preseason as well. Don’t know if he’s the savior we’re looking for in that regard. Matthews is the only guy that gets open with any reliability and he’s been dropping the majority of what is thrown at him. If he can clean that up, and ags comes along as you hope, we might be ok.
I think Ags had that one big dropped on a comeback route. He’s a natural hands catcher so hopefully he will be an improvement of what we have out there
It’s pretty obvious that Agholar hasn’t even been close to good ENOUGH so far this season, but I still feel really good about the kid getting comfortable at some point and show how Talemted he really is at some point this season. For a kid who hasn’t had any success, I don’t think his lack of success has been because he wasmt able to get seperaation at this level. The kid even was able to get open at tImes against Revis, so once the game slows down for him a bit, and his timing with SAM improves, I think his talent will shine thru at some Poimt this season, hopefully sooner rather than Later.. Jordan Mathews success DIDNT come instantly last year, he needed time before he started to show his ability last year, so while Agholar has had a very poor start, im still very high on the kid, and I don’t think we will have to wait Til next season to see him start to make big plays for us..I EXPECT TO see it this season. Health permitting of course..
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I’m not down on Agholar at all… And it damn sure could be worse with a WR drafted ahead of him (Kevin White) and the WR drafted after him (Perriman) probably won’t even play a game for the Bears and Ravens Til next year.. Heck Agholar stil has a shot to have a better rookie season than Devante Parker. Phillip Dorsett ISNT helping the Colts much. Funchess hasn’t helped Carolina much.. the ONLY rookie WR that will clearly finish the season ahead of Agholar is Amari Cooper who is a real Gem..so no reason to be down on Agholar at this point, but we DAMN SURE could use him getting healthy and start making a few plays for us, since Huff cant be counted on for anything..
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Today, I’m really down on Huff. Long term, I still think he can be a very nice weapon for this franchise, but im down trying to figure out when he will get his shit Together and become someone we can count on.. Not every great young player shows the year two leap we would hope to see. Sophmore Slumps have been seen in guys that ended up developing into quality players. Hopefully it’s not the case, they can salvage what is left of their (huff and Jordan) sophmore season and not need to wait Til next year to produce.. But we are still a ways away from being able to count on Huff, so Hopefully Agholars development will be quicker, because SAM needs help BAD..
Rematch the tape Ags was open a lot. He had 1 bad drop that I remember. I think this was during the time when bradford was REALLY struggling with timing. Games 1-3 I think.
eric kendricks defensive rookie of the month, i thought for sure it’d be hicks but then learned kendricks had 4 sacks in 2 games, pretty impressive.
They knew to draft Eric Kendricks because we had his brother. The surest guarantee in football is that, given the chance, the Eagles will always draft the wrong brother.
When Mathews dropped the ball for the interception i think he was in between the two inside linebackers, jumping for the ball. That sort of throw in between inside linebackers is meant for 6-5, 250lbs tight ends. Mathews is not quick enough to take advantage of multi-directional slot receiver routes and too small to get hit regularly by inside linebackers. Not an excuse, but some players just cant take the hits by linebackers and catch the ball.
I wonder if Mathews had success last year because he was covered more by slot cornerbacks, or was thrown to lower, not treated like a tight end. I wonder if Bradford is too blame for thinking of Mathews as a tight end, throwing him passes that Celek often gets, taking lots of abuse and coming down with the ball.
Not an excuse, but if Mathews cant take hits from inside linebackers, and if he is always known to have long, straight line speed, his 4.4 speed takes awhile to reach, he should be on the outside. Or if he is going over the middle with linebackers covering him he should take them long.
He is a slot receiver. He isn’t special
problem is routes are simplistic and sam stares them down so linebackers are just waiting for him. theyll press on the line, then prior to the snap the drop right in that zone so that matthews has no chance of beating them on that route.
what there needs to be is a fake inside route coupled w/ the deep route, the ilb is taking themselves out of position, big pitch and catch play
I wish Davis would do more of what McDermott does. Have the lbs all come up to the line to look like a blitz and then back off. I love that because as the game wears on its a great disguise and when they do blitz it seems more effective. Seems like when we do send a lb hes coming in from 4 yds behind the line and just runs into the mass. Harder to find the hole or squeak through to generate a hurry at least.
Yeah think both need to happen, maybe we’ll see more of that once hicks, meco and kiko are in regular rotation b/c they have more range.
Part of the benefit of the delayed blitz is that it allows the DL to create seams so the LBs can run free. You can use “cross dogs” and stunts to hide the gaps that you’re going to be attacking though billy generally loves a gap pressure.
Think Matthews hit dropped the ball… I don’t think he even got touched by the defense. He needs to make those catches. He’s 6’3″ and 230, not a small guy either.
I thinks he’s pressing this year
Certainly pressing, hence the drops. He settles in and the O will click…. At least that’s what my wife tells me
Count me on the side of NOT benching Bradford. There’s simply no upside to the move.
100% agree.
disagree, Ill come back in a few months when everyone else finally admits the SB mistake. Im usually really objective, not anymore. How do we know Sanchez doesnt run the offense better. He already did. He ran into a really rough end of the year schedule minus the skins game. Otherwise it was at least watchable. The upside would be maybe winning the division instead of having to sit through this train wreck. Okay, Im done, Ill go now
At this point, it doesn’t matter to me, Bradford or Sanchez. Heck, even Tebow for entertainment purposes.
Now what does matters is that we do find someone for next year who does have that potential Bradford and Sanchez lack. Someone like a Tyrod Taylor that the Bills found this year.
tt would have been nice, but guess what running QBs get injured and he’s missed 2 games – 2lls. i think that’s what chp doesn’t want.
hundley would have been nice based on what we saw pre-season but i guess we all know now that’s fools gold.
That Barnwell comparison is terrible. Sorry but the difference between Houstons QBs is they are 4-12 material while Eagles are more like 8-8 material at this point. With a little luck in a league thats teams are separated by razor thin margins, a change can make a difference. Another thing is, with a good defense, often times you dont need a stat heavy QB on the other side to win games. Throw in a solid run game and its even less relevant. If Foles plays well at the end of games he could still be better than both of the current guys. I find it kind of funny that everyone seems okay with being average 8-8 or 9-7 team and winning this weak division and having a shot in the playoffs on one hand while completely parading around superbowl potential of QBs on the other.
Atl game on first possesion with ball in hands and chance to win game or
take lead. 3rd and 9. In Car game, 3rd and 16. Both money spots and he
couldnt even get anything started. Deer in the headlights guy, not a
good sign regardless of everything else. If you want to win games with a
good D, thats not the kind of QB you want. I get the good D was only just discovered so you would never plan a team that way. You want the best players esp at QB so I get the gamble. I think you have a high priced guy like Sanchez as a backup for just this reason, to actually use him if needed. Unfortunately its usually only for emergency situations per injury. He also didnt show much in preseason when easily had a chance to look better than Bradford and fell way short. However, nobody really predicted SB would be the practice and preseason superstar he is.
The Eagles are #17 in points/game. Not good, not bad, bunched with other teams within a point of #12 San Diego.
The Eagles are #1 in takeaways. Great! Nearly double the #13 team, GB.
They have forced 10 fumbles, recovered 8 of them. The historic fumble recovery rate is about 50%, and this stat has been shown to be random, _not_ skill-based.
What is the point? That, like last year, we are depending on the defense to score and bail out the offense. The turnovers are due to skill, but we have been lucky with the recoveries. Regression to the mean will make this hard to sustain. The O will likely have to perform better just to sustain current performance.
I wonder how the stats stack up in wins and losses individually. Way too busy to figure it out.
Yeah, it’s all a very small sample size, of course.
Healing a switch now is the worst thing we could possibly do… The Offense around SAM hasn’t been good enough. it’s one thing if everyone is firing on all cylnders and SAM is single handedly holding them back, but that hasn’t been the case at all… We Will NEVER Find a QB to move forward with If we only give new QBs 7 games to prove themselves…CONTINUITY is what we NEED, making change for the sake of change is nOT THE SOLUTION, and I would be more inclined to go with Sanchez had he shown any bit of growth that I would like to see from a QB in his second preseason of this offense… Sanchez didn’t show any type of year two leap… I think Sanchez can come in and win a game or two, but the longer he stays in the game, the more his Wharts and limitatiòns will start to show…
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great NFL QB’s Rarely switch teams, ANY QB we can get our hands on in the offseason will only have POTENTIAL going for him.. The closest we seen to a game ready elite QB changing teams was the Chargers and Phillip Rivers this summer, but San Diego smartened up and held on to him, and even if Rivers is switching teams, Zero shot he moves his wife and 37 kids to Philadelpha….. If you want to replace SAM, you will only be able to find a QB with POTENTIAL, and SAM still has plenty of untapped potential to try and squeez out of him… Kapernick, Rg3,”Tyrod Taylor, Bryce Petty. Hundley. Any of these other QBs would also just be POTENTAL signings, and I don’t care who it is, 7 games won’t be enough for them to prove that they are our Savior. If you only give a QB 7 games to prove he is the answer, we will be stuck playing QB musical chairs for another Decade…
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chip NEEDS a QB with passing Talent, and Football Intelligence and even tho It hasn’t paid off for us yet, SAM still ranks highly in those areas..
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My one criticism for chip is in hindsite, maybe you wait a year before you make so many changes on Offense, so that you can bring SAM into an already established and United offense… But, we were already going into year 3, so If chip felt the need to rebuild, probably better off dong it now, than to bring SAM in and wait a year before rebuilding the offense
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While the results hAvent even been close to GOOD ENOUGH, I REALLY LIKED a lot of what I saw from SAM against Carolina that wasn’t fucking around.. His WR’s gave him NO HELP, his OL had issues, yet SAM stepped up and BATTLED, even putting his health on the line fighting to Pick up a first down for us.. The Kid showed me something in the Carolina loss, so this damn sure ISNT the TIME to be talking about changing QBs.. Not when we just saw,the first game where it looked like his injury concerns were NO LONGER lingering in his Brain… the Kid started to sense the pass rush pressure, and maneuver around in the pocket buying time for his dissapointing WR’s to do what they do, he was rolling out with confidence, even running on 4th and short picking up the first down himself…SAM has had more success as any eagle in Spurts. But I liked how he looked in the Carolina game, more than how he looked even during the flashes where he had success… I saw a toughness and competitive Fire in SAM that wasn’t always evident this season, and going into the bye week that was the best possible time to see SAM start to get comfortable in this offense, so Im intruiged to see if he can build on it..
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SAM flat out NEEDS to be BETTER, Much Better,,. But unfortunately he hasn’t been the only issue.. Knowing we have a new QB who has only been running this offense since August and hasn’t played in two years meaning he would probably need time to get his timing down Amd accustomed to NFL speed again, it was IMPORTANT that the offense sorrounding SAM would do its part, and help carry SAM early while he got comfortable and our Offense has failed MISERABLY in that Regaurd.. The offense hasn’t been good enough to where we can think that switching QB will solve all these problems.. EVERYONE needs to step up and be better, and a QB switch ISNT going to help achieve that.. We need to improve individually and we need to improve as a cohesive unit on offense… The more SAM plays, the more of his potential and talent we should start to unlock…., KELCE, Lane, JP, Jordan, Huff, Agholar, Murray, Sproles… These players need to step up NOW and start to do their part.. SAM, Ryan Mathews and friggin Miles Austin were our best offensive players in Carolna.. that’s ABSURD!! These offensive players need to look in the mirror and start living up to their capabilities… enough is enough… We are approaching the second half of the season, it’s time to STEP up or Lay down.
It reminds me a bit of Carson Palmer in AZ. His first 8 games were pretty terrible, but then the light came on and he’s been much better since (with a few clunkers here and there, but overall pretty good). Of course Bruce Arians’ offense is completely different than Chip’s, but the point is it takes some time to get into a rhythm, so I agree with Tommy (and Chip) that pulling Sam now probably isn’t the best move. Hopefully with time, the light will go on with Bradford and he can be closer to the QB Chip was hoping for.
Sarley makes some good points. Lazor appears to have some quarterback whisperer qualities.
I disagree,. Think Sarley is grasping at straws and his argument is absurd… I don’t care to defend our QB coach of chip right now, and no one outside of Novacare has any idea what type of a QB coach Ryan day is, but I don’t care if he coached pee wee football or the Lingerie league last year, to suggest that chip and his staff DONT coach QB mechanics is absurd.. There isn’t ANY staff in the NFL hat overlooks QB mechanics.
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How many times have you listened to a post game press Confrence and hear chip talk about footwork issues and all kinds of mechanical flaws as reasons for why certain throws were off? It literally happens every week whether we win or lose.. So to suggest that we may not care about coaching QB mechanics is just a really stupid argumement by Sarley.. What he is basically suggesting is that chip sees es mechanical issues every week (since he points them out in every press Confrence) that are holding us back, yet he doesn’t care enough to coach mechanics and try to improve those short comings? That just makes no sense
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I’d like to ask Mr. Saley, what exactly does he think Ryan Day does every single day as a QB coach, if he thinks that he isn’t focusing on fixing QB’s mechanical issues? That’s basically the job description of a QB coach.. does he think we are just paying Ryan Day to help tutor Bradford with Learning the playbook?
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I don’t think Mr Sarley thought this out very well….
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You can’t totally discount Foles and Tannehill with and without Bill Lazor like many others have noted. Can you?
I don’t understand what that means or what you are asking..
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But I have no friggin clue if Day or Lazor is any good as a QB coach, but neither does anyone else commenting on this site…. But what I do Know is to say that our coaches see flaws in our Qbs mechanics but don’t care enough about it to adress them, which is Sarleys argument is friggin Ridiculous. To suggest that any staff coaching in the NFL would overlook mechanical flaws is absurd
When you read the article, I am sure you noticed that out of the entire article, only one paragraph deals with QB mechanics and Kelly. In that paragraph, Derek never asserts that Kelly doesn’t care, or that he overlooks flaws.
I’d quote the passage, but there is already a link above and a quote by Tommy, so it seems redundant. Derek merely said that Kelly isn’t seen coaching mechanics personally, a comparison to Reid, and questions if maybe the brand new from college coach might not be excelling at it.
Where are you getting that Derek is concluding that Kelly doesn’t care or purposely overlooks flaws?
It’s one of those things, where all our QB’s under Chip have struggled with their mechanics, none of his guys in college had particulary pro-ready mechanics. Bradford struggles with mechanics and his best trait is suddenly one of his biggest liabilities. If Chip isn’t a QB guru, it’s fair to question if it was appropriate to bring someone in from his circle that he coached to mentor Chip’s biggest and most important gamble.
Of course Day teaches mechanics. Of course he works on it, that’s his job. All coaches teach, and they are all accountable to how well they do that job. But we don’t know.
It would be utterly irresponsible to scapegoat Mr. Day as a bad coach, and Sarley didn’t do that. It’s fine to recognize Day as one of the (many) ingredients that goes into the product that is Sam Bradford’s play so far this year, though.
Add in that Sanchez and Matt Barkley both regressed, yeah, people can wonder.
We had DB coaches last year that weren’t teaching fundamentals to DBs so it wouldn’t be too surprising to me if they didn’t teach fundamentals – Day didn’t come up as a QB coach so who knows how much he knows about fundamentals at that level.
That said after the Giants or Saints game (i forget) I remember Bradford talk about some fundamental stuff the other weak (weight transfer i think).
You do realize the job description of a QB coach is basically to Babysit the QBs Mechanics? What does a QB coach do when he is ignoring mechanical mistakes?
Lazor’s leaving seems to correlate pretty with the frustrating QB play. I think I would offer him his choice of titles and pay him more than Miami to rejoin us.
His choice of titles? After being an offensive coordinator I think the next step would be head coach, no? I doubt he supplants Chip and even more doubtful he supplants Coach Azz as assistant head coach. Also Tannehill is just a talented QB, and has improved almost every year since he started playing QB at A&M. I don’t get the notion of Lazor made Tannehill leaps and bounds better then he was.
I think AR had like 15 assistant head coaches at one point. He was trying his hardest to keep the staff in tact. Seems like Chip’s has been busted up even quicker.
That is true, but I think Chip is just keeping to his word of never denying an assistant to pursue better job opportunities.
I do appreciate that. Shows that he does care about the man more than the job.
That is why a little creativity is in order. Assistant Head Coach in charge of the Offense? Assistant TO the head coach? Arial Assault Coordinator? Air Force General? The Official QB Whisperer? Whatever.
As long as he gets paid more, and every other organization in the league knows he is coming back because he is talented, it should help his bank account and his career.
I hear ya ATG I do, but most of these NFL personnel men are usually too proud to take a demotion even if it does mean more money. I would much rather have Lazor then Shurmur, who I still don’t know what his role is, on this team.
Plenty of former OC’s, DC’s, and even head coaches take “lesser” jobs at other organizations, including as a position coach. It’s not unusual in the least.
Well obviously it isn’t uncommon for that to happen but most do those things after they have flamed out of their previous job. Lazor is an offensive coordinator that is moved up from college, to the pros to be a QB coach, then moves up to offensive coordinator of a different team. Why would he want to settle for the same job position for his previous employer when he is clearly moving up in the ranks?
question is do you fire schumer for him? That’s basically what you’d have to do i think.
I would do that but the real question is would Lazor do that?
I guess you’d have to see how the HC thing shakes out. Undoubtedly gm will want to do his own thing. wonder if any good hc are even available
Yeah, the title and responsibilities would have to be such that he feels he is closer to his goal.
we need some Lazoraide.
Somethings gotta be wrong in Miami when he was jumped over for HC after Philbin got fired.
I look at it as more of Dan Campbell’s many more years of NFL experience between coaching and playing that led them to anoint him the interim head coach. They can always not rehire him at the end of the year and hand the reigns to Lazor.
Tannehill hasn’t been very good for the most part. I know he had a great game last week but theres a reason Miami has a head coaching vacancy
You’re blaming Tannehill for the coach getting fired? That’s absurd man. If you have paid any attention to the tenure of Joe Philbin then you would of realized that he was in over his head from day 1 and was just a terrible coach. Its Miami’s fault for hiring a guy just because his title was “offensive coordinator” of the Packers when in reality he wasn’t even calling plays that was Mike McCarthy’s job and then the fact that Aaron Rodgers is the QB will make anyone look good. Also like I was saying if you look up Tannehill’s stats he has improved every year since making the swtich from WR to QB dating back to college. Also his last 2 years were solid so I really don’t know where you’re coming from with your statements because they are false.
More than Stats I watch a lot of Miami games. He has not played well and its funny he has one great game against a struggling team and everyone wants Lazor back over Day and Tannehill is a franchise QB.
The fact is Tannehill is an ok player with potential. Lazor has had a few good games as O coordinator
Backing Lazor is more of people wanting him back because of what Foles did 2 years ago. Nobody is saying Lazor is an extraordinary offensive coordinator in any way. I watch a lot of Miami games as well as my father lives there and is a die hard Dolphins fan so I pay attention to them and yes Tannehill has potentional but he is a franchise QB. Give Chip a QB like Tannehill and he can work magic. Also is Tannehill is still improving as a player every year which is really all you can ask for from a player that has not played QB his whole life.
I hear you on Tannehill but IMO hes not much better than Bradford. He did not look sharp tonight.
We have given a former #1 overall pick who hasn’t played football in 2 years 7 games. I don’t really think that’s fair to cast any real judgement. I also don’t think that its fair to call qb coach into question 7 games in.
I think if things are still like this 12 games in we have a problem. When WR cant catch it doesn’t really matter whos under center
Tannehill just broke mcnabb’s completion record.
Mark Sanchez played his best football as an eagle, and never spent a day with coach lazer.
..
personally, a healthy offensive line that played all 16 games together and performed as one of the Elite OL in the NFL in 2013, and has been one big inconsistent injury riddled mess since the 2013 season ends is what I correlate the frustrating QB play with.. Probably didn’t help that Foles was battered since the very beginning of the 2014 season, no idea how hurt he was, but I’m sure he was playing thru pain for some portion of his 2014 campaign..
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OL is way more important to me than a QB coach. If you are working as a pro QB coach it’s probably safe to assume you have a strong understanding of QB mechanics.. A QB coach ISNT teaching pro QBs anything they haven’t heard before.. QB mechanics DONT change once you get to the pro level
..
Give me a top OL over a QB coach any day, and I’ll take my chances that an offensive coordinator or offensive minded head coach will take care of the mechanical flaws of the franchises most important player
There are a lot of QBs who had their best years without studying under Lazor. That doesn’t disprove his effectiveness. There are a lot of people who died without being decapitated. That doesn’t disprove its fatality.
Seattle is a great point and ultimately why I accepted the Bradford trade (if not embraced in the preseason). They were a complete joke to the national media because they kept spending on and missing on quarterbacks. They just kept blowing through them in their NFL version of Tinder, until they found the right guy.
The biggest thing is not to resign Sam if he isn’t really the guy. Chip had nothing to do with bringing in Foles, so I can see it being easy for him to dump the guy. He seems hard headed enough to resign Bradford if it doesn’t work though.
Even if all things click and they make a nice little play off run I hope he can be objective about Bradford.
Good point Tum. People do forget the days of giving up picks for Charlie Whitehurst. They gave up draft picks for Charlie freakin Whitehurst and people are upset of the trade to get Bradford. Giving Matt Flynn big money basically because of that one historic game where he started for GB and set records. Oh and Tarvaris Jackson as well. QB carousel for sure until they got lucky and hit on Wilson.
Hopefully Chip finds his QB this year.
Wasn’t it a 2+ for Whitehurst as well? With a nice contract after that?
I believe so, which makes it even worst since Whitehurst never once in his career showed that he can be a capable starting QB.
BUT the strategy worked! So as bad as it looked, it was really actually a smart play. Sort of like progressive betting in Black-Jack.
Think about what hey have paid Wilson up to now. It all ended up hugely in their favor.
Very true, hopefully the Bradford debacle turns into a blessing in disguise.
All great points… But to add to it, now that Seattle does have a franchise QB, their offensive struggles and the Colts mess of an offense shows how important it is to have a quality team around the QB in order for the QBs to be successful… When I look at the offensive struggles of the Colts and Seattle, it looks a lot like us, the QB supporting cast not being good enough to see those talented Franchise QBs play up to the potemtial those kids have already proven to have,.
..
If Wilsom and Luck are struggling because their offensive supporting Cast ISNT playing well enough, how can we expect a QB on a new team who hasn’t played in two years to be able to instantly transcend the average at best offense around him and show the full potential of what he is capable of?
..
Seeing andrew luck struggle like he has, if we subtracted Bradford and replaced him with Luck these firat 7 games, I doubt it would have solved our offensive woes… bradford absolutely has to be BETTER. that’s obvious, but if his supporting cast dpesmt get its head out Its ass, bradford elevating his play won’t even matter..I can understand why SAM hasnt gotten off to a fast start this year, but I have no idea wtf KELCE, Lane, JP, Jordan, Huff and Murrays excuse is other than the fact that they still need to Jell and injuries have screwed with our continuity
..
Even if you are a Bradford believer, you still probably thought that his supporting cast would have to help him early on this season until he got comfortable and probably end up seeing his best ball during the second half of the season.. Understanding this, Sams offensive supporting cast has for the most part failed bradford Miserably
..
SAM NEEDS to be BETTER, but it won’t even matter unless our other offensive players get their shit together and don’t start playing up to their potential, and that goes for JP, Lane, KELCE, Sproles, Murray, Jordan, Huff. I don’t think any of them have played up to their potential so far this year… I can’t count on a kid like Huff. But I should be able to count on a guy like Sproles catching a wide open perfectly thrown ball in the redzone that could be the difference between a TD and having to Kick a FG… I understand that it’s not fair that Lane has already played next to 3 different Guards, same thing with KELCE, but they need to step up REGARDLESS. A new guard inning up next to KELCE is no excuse for his erratic snaps. Sproles killing our drive dropping open pass in the redzone has nothing to do with Bradford.
..
Looking back at this Panthers game, I thought our best offensive players in Caolina were Bradford, Ryan Mathews, ERTZ and Miles Austin… And THATS Absurd! No reason why Miles Austin can show up but KELCE can’t. enough is enough… Bradford can improve, but even if he does it won’t be enough to overcoming all these damn issues we are having.
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To me it looked like SAM was ready to turn the corner in Carolina..if SAM is ready to step up and play at a higher level, than shame on his supporting cast if they don’t get their shit together and start giving him the help he needs..
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I was understanding in September, I was Fair in October, but come November, It’s tIme to put up or shut up.. No matter what our stRting point looked like, by November you should start to show your true colors and if you are a serious team, you will play your best football in December.. The grace period is over, DEz is about to come back,our safety net is starting to wear thin.. These players need to step up, NOW..
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Going to Dallas after our bye week, losing for the 3rd time in our division and falling to 3-5 is about as bad as it gets.. I don’t care what these players have to do, they BETTER score more than 1 fucking point than the Cowboys score next week…. I wanted to so badly turn the corner as a team, winning in Carolina and finally being over 500… To Now have to go to Dallas and win a game just to get back to 500 is about as demoralizing as if gets
Well said brother. The basic premise between the Eagles, Seahawks, and Colts seem to be the same that the offensive line can completely doom a team no matter how talented the QB is. Seatlle trades a stud center and offense go into flux, Indy ignores the o-line and Luck is getting battered out there and its killing them, and the Eagles well I don’t have to divulge you get the point. I am the biggest advocate for everything in football starts in the trenches. I know a good QB is difficult to find which is why Chip took a shot but without protection to run the ball in an offense predicated on running then it is going to struggle.
yup
Very well said… Everyone knows the QB is the most important player of every franchise, but in THE ULTIMATE TEAM Game, even QB greatness can only overcome a struggling OL for so much..
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We can’t ever try to minimize the QB position, but you won’t be very successful if you can’t win the battle of the trenches..
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SAM Bradford may have actually played better than Cam Newton in Carolina, but the Panthes won the Battles in the trenches and were able to overcome our defense torturing their MVP candidate Franchise QB and find a way to win the game..
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our DL is where we need it to be, but if this OL doesmt step its game up the second half of the season, discussing our QB situation will be pointless
Agree 100%.
yeah exactly, they all need to play better and help each other. its a team sport for sure.
throw it well, catch it, block it etc… there is no one fault here so they can and will get better.
Eh, teams are going struggle on offense sometimes.
One of Tommy’s points is that great QBs make their skill players better.
Luck did that last season. Brady, obviously. Peyton. Brees in his prime (never really anyone on the Harrison or even Wayne level).
Keep on bringing them in until you get the right guy. I’m totally with that logic.
Yep…and spend to do it if you have to
“but Kelly was right to take a chance” Yeah you give me 12 million dollars and say that. What a joke. Kelly wasn’t right to take the chance. It was a mistake.
“we’ll find out there is hope for Bradford of if he’s a failure and the Eagles are right back at square one” They aren’t even back at square one Tommy. They are at square negative one with another glaring need. It was a huge mistake making that trade. Any way you slice it. It was a mistake and a horrible one.
I haven’t been here for a while, but may I kindly ask you: Who are you?
Just so you know. It’s a “no-talk zone” with that one.
http://en.wikifur.com/w/images/f/f3/Troll.png
Ha! Who else is in THAT zone?
Why do we care what Bradford gets paid for a 1 year Rental? I would be more upset if we were tied to him for more years even at a smaller salary.
He is just a troll. Don’t respond to him.
Everybody now…
Done!!. Such a shame that this is what we must to do ignore an idiot troll but oh well.
lets POLKA!
Tumtum’s not so bad. Tumtum want gum gum.
So never to dissapoint, Jerry Jones and “Americas Team” got rid of one of its 3 classy players they had, the regning scoring Champ who carried their team to the most successful season they had in like two decades it feels like, and replaced him with “Prince Charming” Joseph Randle, renowned Underwear and Cologne Theif who has managed to reward the Cowboys with the TRIFECTA of awesomeness..
The kid is currently:
1) out with an Oblique injury, won’t be playing in seattle
2) is going to finally get punished for his domestic violence incident last Febuary
3) might actually be facing punishment from the Cowboys for being AWOL for. Mid week practice last week, ultimately we know the Cowboys won’t punish anyone since the inmates run the asylum, but for now ATLEAST they will pretend to give him a “stern warning”
..
Jordan Hicks knocked Romo out and with DEz injury. Left the Dallas offense in the hands of this “Winner” Joseph Randle and he is sure repaying the Cowboys for all their faith in him…#TheCowboyWay…
Dez bryant back for sunday, hopefully he doesn’t reinjure that foot………..
Yes! I can’t wait to see how Maxwell/Carroll will do against Dez.
i’ll tell you right now if you want
No spoiler please!
fine, but it aint pretty
Pretty lies in the eye of the beholder.
Excuse me? He’s supposed to be out 2 years………..unless he has a better doctor than Embiid did.
Kind of wish he did have Embiid’s doctor so Bryant would have missed 2 years.
What would be the Eagles record if we had Amari Cooper instead of Agholor?
Still need a QB to throw it to him… Bradford was awful the first few weeks. He’s only now beginning to play OK. I know Ags had 1 or 2 drops during preseason but though he was catching the ball well with his hands once the season started
probably 7-0 obviously.
but wait, can he kick field goals?
play OG?
Or throw perfect passes to himself?
he’s pretty bad ass though
Wow…I would have said 5-2.
yeah probably 5-2 actually.
we still have Sturgis
Who has Agholor? He hasn’t played since Week 3.
haha, this is great
http://deadspin.com/weird-al-yankovic-is-every-coach-at-a-postgame-press-1739385761
Great perspective, Tommy! With regards to Sanchez, I just don’t think he has the physical tools (i.e. Arm strength, speed, height, accuracy) to ever be an elite QB. His lack of arm strength, in particular, has been a constant detriment to his success in the NFL. He’s simply physically unable to threaten all parts of the field. He has trouble with deep outs and the vertical passing game which shrinks the field that the defense has to defend and makes his job that much harder. Add his historical propensity for turnovers (compared to Bradford who despite this year, has been very good at protecting the ball) and it’s clear to me that he’s not the answer at starting QB. While I like him a lot as a backup, that has more to do with the lack of quality QBs in the league particularly nonstarters than with the fact that I think Sanchez has any chance of ever being elite.
Bradford’s stats have unquestionably been pedestrian. He’s been horribly inconsistent and has given the ball away at an alarming rate. However, he does have all the prerequisite physical skills needed to truly be elite, and, more importantly, he’s had stretches (though never for entire games) where he’s put those skills on display and looked the part of an elite QB. That at least gives me some modicum of hope that doesn’t exist for me with Sanchez.
Finally, the other players on offense have contributed to making Bradford look bad. Dropped passes have been historically bad this year and even more importantly guys simply haven’t been getting open with any regularity. Unlike in years past where we routinely saw guys wide open on every play, we’re now seeing more and more plays were everything is tightly covered, and even when players do get open the windows are a lot tighter. I certainly don’t think Sanchez will function better in the current conditions. It’s easy to grab the one or two screen shots where Bradfords 3rd or 4th read is breaking free momentarily and accuse him of not seeing the field, but what I’ve seen in rewatching the all-22s is that for the most part he’s making quick correct reads/decisions on the majority of his drop backs. His issues have been caused more by inaccuracies and poorly thrown balls than bad decisions. Since accuracy is something he’s known for being exceptional at, I have further hope that that’s something that can and really should improve.
Finally, we have Sanchez locked up for next year, while Bradford will be a FA at years close. After giving up significant resources to obtain him the best move is to figure out for sure if he’s someone we’d want to move forward with, especially when I presume the improvement to Sanchez would be minimal and would ensure were still looking for a QB next offseason.
Just ask yourself this, if Bradford was playing for another team and you were told his outside WRs were Riley Cooper, Miles Austin and Josh Huff, that his receivers were dropping a league leading 10% of his passes and his run game was struggling to consistently move the chains and put him in favorable down and distances, would you be at all surprised that he wasn’t putting up good numbers? I sure wouldn’t!
I think with this defense Sanchez can do just enough
Look at Sanchez losses
Week 11: It was Aaron Rodgers for gods sake. We had the 28th ranked defense with Cary Williams and Burnt Toast. No way we were winning.
Week 14: We played the 2013 Superbowl Champions & 2014 NFC Champions. I think they were holding opposing teams to an average 14pts.
Week 15: All Romo did was throw 3 TD’s to Dez Bryant who was on being covered by Burnt Toast with no safety help, Dez wins that every time and he did
Week 16: We lost by 3 to a bad Redskins team and even though Sanchez threw a costly pick at the end, If I remember Parkey missed about 3 or 4 field goals and once again we had Williams and Burnt Toast.
Now Sanchez is not a starter but I think with this defense we have now he can do just enough. Our defense has been keeping us alive but Bradford has no type of chemistry with these receivers at all. Sanchez has at least some type I think they should give him reps with the 1’s
That’s what i’m saying. Sanchez does fumble a lot, which Sam doesn’t do.
Are u agreeing or disagreeing?
I like sanchez
also
If
Preseason:
Bradford=amazing
Sanchez=garbage
and
Regular Season:
Bradford=garbage
then
Sanchez=?
A) amazing, preseason is bizarro world
B) hot garbage
C) Bradford
D) all of the above
Pretty sure it was on the SAT, tough one!
but pre-season sanchez was not at all garbage. so now what?
he was like 13-15 in one game I thought or something.
so now we are screwed either way?
I remember his first game, he was fairly awful. Looked like he had regressed substantially, but he did improve as the preseason moved forward.
It started as a joke, but the grim truth is probably your last sentence, stuff just got so real.
when keeping it real goes wrong
Yes lets put Sanchez behind a crappy line and see what happens… I think Ive read that story already and it ended in a butt fumble lol
plus his shoulder is better now so he can throw the ball
ha I just said something similar down below. Sanchez ran into a buzzsaw of a schedule minus the skins game. At least hes watchable unlike now. He can maybe save the season but CK will not make that move and I get that also. It is too soon if you put your eggs in that basket. If it doesnt work out and they keep losing it will be too late and everyone will say it wouldnt have mattered anyway but we’ll never know at that point. No use putting him in with a few games left and no chance.
So Donovan had some things to say about Chip today:
“Well, he better win soon,” McNabb said. “You talk about the tenure I had, over a decade of winning successfully, making it to the playoffs. First round meant nothing to us. It was second round, NFC Championship or Super Bowl.
“We’ve had a top-five offense, but he hasn’t had any playoff wins to show for it. We can talk about how smart you are and the numbers you’re putting up, but Philadelphia is used to winning. If you’re not winning, it’s going to be next man up.”
Does anybody really care anymore what Donnie Mac has to say?
tooting his own horn
That is basically it Botto. How do we know that isn’t sick and loaded up on “cough medicine” when he said this?
The response I heard was to cite a statistic: McNabb’s NFC titles: 1, McNabb’s DUIs: 2.
Well played.
“Philadelphia is used to winning” ?????
The anxiousness to break down the pros and cons of Bradford strikes me as a righteous practice, but unavoidably incomplete at this point. The Eagles are approaching the mid-point of a season with a team that is dealing with multiple issues, and some of them may be down to youth at certain positions, and inexperience playing together. But nobody paying attention can think that is the all of it. Having watched Josh Huff and Jordan Matthews look alarmingly mediocre, my mind wanders to the whole “wired right” ethos that Kelly touts when selecting players. I definitely don’t want to write off either player at this juncture, but their mistakes complicate any assessment of Bradford. Chris Collinsworth suggested that the whole effort to land Bradford was a good gamble whether it pans out or not, and if the latter, it will not be a monumental challenge to move on.
I suspect that Bradford will be resigned by Kelly, because the probability of drafting a keeper at QB is very slim, and if Bradford is no better from here on out, he won’t have much bargaining leverage. I do think that Bradford could look better with more stability at WR and OL, but Kelly’s offensive scheme may need a change-up before the offense looks formidable. It seems like the defenses the Eagles offense have faced so far have made very early breaks for the gaps that suggest a tell or a key is being exploited. If that is so, Kelly needs to show the tell and go a different way – maybe a quick slant to Matthews or Austin or end around. Kelly is astute, and I think it is not too late for this team to do some damage. A sound thrashing of the Cowgirls would be an excellent place to start fresh.
If SAM stays healthy all year, I absolutely think SAM will be here Next year. I don’t even think there is any doubt about that…. The only real question is what type of extension will we sigń him to, and his second half season growth is probably going to determine the longevity of the extension we offer him
My 2 cents:
It fairly complicated, since with 2 flawed QB’s, You can build a case for and against each QB separately. Essentially you can decide who should start in your own head from 4 distinct directions. I’ll try to do all.
For Bradford:
Up side (“arm talent”) and excuses for poor performance (talent around him not performing well, scheme possibly letting him down, still on the long recovery from missing 2 years of football, etc). In the macro of it all, the only hope for going deep in the playoffs or finding franchise harmony for years to come is for Bradford to some how become the guy Chip thought he was.
Against Bradford:
We’ve seen the first 7 games, he’s just about the same guy you imagined when you first heard we traded for the guy from the Rams. Checks out, nothing left to see here. Also doesn’t seem comfortable making use of that arm strength to push the ball down field. Just uses it to whip balls at a receiving corps with questionable hands.
Against Sanchez:
We know that guy, he was at the helm when we squandered a 9-3 record and missed the playoffs. He was mediocre at his height and that was with a completely different offense and they were *better, therefore he would also be bad in the current offense.
For Sanchez:
He’s healthier now. How do we know the 2014 offensive pieces were *better? We only know the rebuilt offense with Bradford at the helm is worse. Maybe a few less dropped/tipped balls from a QB with a little less heat is just what the offense needs to stick on the field and get things rolling. Maybe mediocrity is enough to do something with the defense playing so well.
Ark87’s opinion: I really don’t know. I think Sanchez gives us a better chance to win now. But that establishes an immediate ceiling on the offense (and franchise until we get another chance to look for The Guy). Measured against the odds that Bradford will be any better than Sanchez’s very defined ceiling, and how far the D can take that known but limited quality in Sanchez. It’s way too close to call, If it were on Who Wants to be a Millionaire I’d phone a friend. And seeing as that friend has to be Chip Kelly, I’m fully on board with whatever he goes with on this subject, no questions asked.
I basically agree with this. With the additional thought that more stability is better than less stability. So, you stick with Bradford.
good point to add to the for Bradford argument.
The pre-season performance is an excellent point. What happened to that guy?
Would love to know that myself. Must have been a mirage.
I think it’s also what happened to the preseason offense?
The Oline is still struggling with miscommunication, but at least it’s not as bad as the first 3-4 games. The WR are dropping balls like it has a disease.
I really think if they could just fix 50% of the issues with both of those things, we would look like a much better team.
Until this year I would have agreed with the statement “pre-season means nothing” but I don’t think I really understood it properly. After the way we thrashed teams in pre only for the regular season to be a complete mess (at least to start with), I get it now. About the only thing you can learn from pre is how people are recovering from injury, and maybe a tiny bit about individual skill, nothing more.
Holy shit, whoever the Dolphins punter is just kicked it from their own end zone to almost the Patriots 20 O.o
It’s depressing watching the patriots win all the time, every year.
Yeah, they’ll even go 11-5 with Matt Cassell at QB. Strange isn’t it?
Might have something to do with their head coach…
I got more depressed when they choked away two titles to those pieces of garbage from NY.
Here’s a positive: At least our QB isn’t Ryan Tannehill.
Why is that a positive? He’s better then any QB the Eagles have had in years.
I don’t think so. Plus we don’t have to worry about him throwing a hissy fit about the practice squad guys picking him off.
Which recent Eagles QB is better?. Vick in 2010 and that’s it,. Not Vick after, not Foles, Sanchez, or Bradford are better.
I think Foles or Bradford are probably his equal.
Foles is no where near as talented as Tannehill and maybe rookie year Bradford is his equal. Not trying to sound like a dick or anything but have you watched any of these guys play because that’s a ridiculous statement.
That’s ok you are named TypicalDouche after all. No offense taken.
We should all have handles that describe our function on the board. ResidentTroll. HistoryofFootballKnowingGuy. DudeThatHatesCamNewon. LadyWearingGreenShades. FunnyJokeMan. 1200WordEssayofDeepThoughtsWriter. etc.
Golf clap.
I’ll add BiPolarGuy, EternalPessimist, Belichick, FantasyFootballGuy, MockDraftKing, PunTer, O-Haiku, MemeGenerator
We’d need EternalPessimistOne, EternalPessimistTwo, EternalPessimistThree and so on. Oh, and instead of Belichick, shorten it to Cheater.
I think there may only be a few EternalPessimists here, but there are a lot of LivesandDiesWithWeektoWeekResultsGuys. Hmm, not that catchy.
ACViking can be 1-800-legalcounsel.
I’ll adopt the moniker NotQuiteasPecimisticasBlindChow
Yeah, judging QBs on so-called talent rather than performance is why we got rid of a better and cheaper QB for Sam Bradford.
I sort of liked Tannehill until I heard about that. Now would not want him on the Eagles.
This actually looks quite a bit like an Eagles game.
My 2 cents on the Bradford vs Sanchez debate. I’m my opinion, they are the same QB right now with the only difference being Sanchez is the anti-clutch. He seems to make his mistakes in clutch situations. So far, Bradford has had 2 opportunities to have a clutch moment and all he has done is put the ball on the money with his receivers letting him down. So the nod for me is Bradford. He’s getting better every game too.
that’s what’s so frustrating about half our fanbase – they’ll pretend he’s not improving at all because he isn’t improving as rapidly as they want him to. it’d be great if a light went on, but progress isn’t ever actually a straight line
wonder what happens to Miami after this trouncing, do they fall apart?
If you believe they rode a temporary rise in emotion and two week opponents to two wins; they fall apart.
How does Edelman STAY getting open. We must run terrible routes. I can’t believe that guy is uncoverable except by Revis. Brady is killing me in fantasy, he needs to spread the love to amendola.
And…he actually catches the ball.
The Pats have figured out that having a stable of receivers (both backs and wideouts) who have excellent short area and quickness and agility are deadly. Welker, Edelman, Vareen, Dion Lewis, they’re all guys who can beat you quickly off the snap and get open against 1 on 1 coverage.
It’s how they beat the Seahawks in the super bowl last year, (aside from the epic fail at the end of course). They nickle and dimed the Seahawks D to death with Vareen because Bobby Wagner wasn’t quick enough to cover him, and the Seahawks refused to budge out of the base defense they’d been playing all year.
Typically if the Pats offense is stalling, they just start throwing quick passes to their backs or Edelman and move the sticks for a while. When the defense starts cheating up to take that away, they start going deeper to Lafell, Gronk, Amendola, etc.
Then they mix in some bubble/smoke screens to keep you off balance.
It’s not really rocket science, they’ve just figured out that guys who are really quick and get open fast can pry open a defense like a can opener.
And as HawaiianEagle astutely observes, yes it helps that they actually catch the ball.
Interested why we dont use sprols in the slot, i guess part of that may be because he’s got bad hands.I thought we’d see him more at wideout this year but again maybe bad hands are limiting how much they go to that.
Yes, I think if Sproles had better hands we’d see him split out much more often, because he is absolutely deadly once he does get the ball in his hands.
Bradford on the bench now means the Eagles get a draft pick in 2016
Watching Brady’s skill and emotion ( Drive to win in every touchdown ) tonight
I am sure glad we have Bradford. I see a championship coming.
If you’re seriously trying to compare any other QB to Brady (except maybe Rodgers or Manning) then you deserve to be as miserable as you sound.
Exactly
Why do we Eagle fans always always always settle for second best.
Bench Bradford now get the draft pick. He’s NOT going to be the QB next year. Stop pretending Bradford is going to be any more than bland and boring like he was in St Louis.
Does not have the killer instinct
what an incredibly meaningless statement based on nothing
Get ready to be miserable when Bradford gets a new contract from Chip. This is a long haul mentality not a quick fix.
Well
Looks like a lot of losing football seasons ahead
My hope is Chip goes back to college ASAP
and then what
And hopefully you go back to another blog ASAP.
Wait, we have a shot at second best? Teams would kill for second best.
I am having trouble seeing how your proposal gives us an improved chance at getting first best.
Second best = Mediocrity
Bradford is horrible.
Bradford – 29 drops by WR
Brady – 23 drops by WR
Some prople want to win
Others make excuses for failure and never win a superbowl
And still others who endorse change for the sake of change when they are unhappy with the current results.
Where would we be if Chip had listened to that portion on Our NT situation following the Saints playoff game?
or the “billy D has to go” crowd?
did brady ever miss two years, and go to a new system while rehabbing?
This is what happens when you have continuity. Brady / Edelman have been together 6 years, Gronk has been there for a while Amendola has been there a few years. Only people that rotate are the lineman and the rbs.
And the ball boys…
Nah. They were forgiven. Or something. $$.
Now if only we can get that 6th round top 3 QB of all time on our roster.
Can someone give me a good reason why we shouldn’t bench Bradford for one game? We get that draft pick in return and maybe Sanchez’s mojo with Matthews might make him look like an average WR.
I believe the draft pick is if he plays less than half of the season’s snaps.
At this point lets keep riding the train and see if it can make a stop in the playoffs.
I agree. I was pointing out that the plan of sitting him for a game, collecting our draft pick and then trying to reinstall a confidence-shaken Bradford wouldn’t work.
Because when the fourth rounder isn’t an all pro after 7 games he will be deemed a bust
We’re more patient with our first round busts than our fourth rounders.
You wanna bench SAM now when he just had his best game of the season against a tough defense when EVeryone around him with the exception of Ryan Mathews and miles Austin shit the bed? ERTZ was solid until he dropped the TDAYS pass
This is how I feel
I was psyched when Chip brought Bradford on board. I agreed it was a gamble worth making. The nature of gambling, though, is that sometimes you win and sometimes, well, you end up with a mediocre qb. Chip made his bet and while the season isn’t over, it’s loking like a losing hand.
[Posted first time in wrong spot… :^o]
Well said. It’s not that anyone thought it was a sure thing signing
Bradford. Chip was just betting that he already had a losing hand (as
far as taking the team to the next level).
I liked Foles and was excited to see what he could do this season, but I understand this line of reasoning. I give Chip credit for not being satisfied with a 10-6 team. Coach placed his bet and, like all gamblers, he will rise or fall on his wager. Bottom line for me is that I’d rather have a Coach who goes all-in than a guy who plays it safe. Lombardi or bust!
Exactly. I figure I watch football for entertainment, and while a 10-6 teams gives you a lot of entertaining moments, the real entertainment high comes from playoff wins and, “Lombardi or bust!”
also, you gotta admit it was an entertaining free agency
Yeah man! Chip Kelly makes the team *way* more entertaining across the board.
I think a lot of people aren’t understanding your point. I couldn’t agree more. Everytime I hear people criticizing Chip they say something along the lines of…Bradford is his ‘hand picked’ QB. I’m sorry, but he’s not hand picked. Bradford would be way down the list if he could just hand pick whichever QB he wanted. He KNEW he couldn’t go far with Foles and took a gamble with someone with higher upside who also happened to be available via trade. I still think the jury is out. There are just way too many instances in history where guys started slowly and became a good QB. Not ready to write him off through 7 games. It’s amazing to think of all the slow starting hall of fame QBS out there and I can’t help but to think if they played in Philly, they would have been ran out of town before they became good.
I think most thoughtful fans understand Sam could still pull this out. Maybe he really is rusty. It’s frustrating, though, because his knee hasn’t been an issue and he looked so damn good in the pre-season.
Who are some HOF QBs that sucked after 5 years now?
Steve Young, Kurt Warner.
Namath…173 tds 220 ints..lead the nfl 4 times in Ints would have been ran out of town. Warren Moon…couldn’t make the NFL until he was 28 years old. Terry Bradahaw…first year had 6 tds and 24 ints, would have been ran out of town. Dan Fouts…had more Ints than TDS in his first 5 years as a pro, would have been ran out of town. Sonny Jergensen played 18 years, only started in 10 of them. Steve Young…never played good ball until after 30 years old. Kurt Warner…bagging groceries. Bradford has played the equivalent of 3.5 years. Won offensive rookie of the year…played 10 games and got hurt his second year (mediocre stats). Came back the next year and posted 3700yds 21td 13int, the next year played 7 games with 14td and 4int before he got hurt. The arrow is pointing up, even if most of you don’t see it.
were any of them crosseyed too?
just kidding!
Thanks for the list. I am not really seeing much evidence these guys ever sucked. Warren Moon never was bad, he was black. Steve Young had a QB rating of 120 his 3rd year. Namath was in four Pro Bowls by 26. Bradshaw’s team won 11 games his third year, and started almost all the games following, winning 10, 12, 10, 10, 9, 14, 12, 9… etc. Jurgenson was an All-Pro and tied the TD record his third year. Warner, like Moon, was great everywhere he played. When he got his opportunity in the NFL, he was awesome there.
What any of these guys has to do with SB, who was good on a stacked college team (like so many other flame-out QBs) and rose to mediocrity at his best in the NFL, is unclear to me.
The point of the exercise was to show that, for better or worse, the best thing to do with Sam Bradford is let him play. All of those guys had some kind of slow start to their career and found a way to turn it around. Bradford has respectable career stats, it’s not like the guy is some garbage piece of shit QB everyone is making him out to be. If you take the average of all his games he is a 3600 yd passing, 20td, 13int guy that has only played 3.5 years of nfl football. Again, respectable. Not garbage. Something to work with? Sure. Maybe never pans out? Sure. Certainly not as bad as people are making him to be.
I would certainly start him the rest of the year. After all, we already rolled the dice by getting him.
His stats are not good. He is pretty good at not having his opponent catch the ball, but he is not that good at getting his team to catch it, either. Yardage is not a good stat, it mostly just means he had to throw it a lot (because of losing games). For Y/A he is ranked 30th in the league right now at 6.45. Career, he is at 6.3 Y/A, along with Billy Joe Tolliver, Dave Brown, Kordell Stewart. That mark would put him at 31st in the league for 2015.
Yards per attempt: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/the-importance-of-passing-yards-per-attempt/
Well said. It’s not that anyone thought it was a sure thing signing Bradford. Chip was just betting that he already had a losing hand (as far as taking the team to the next level).
There is no “wrong spot” for pork rinds.
Awesome! ;^)
Big performance by Vernon Adams last night although the winning TD wasn’t a TD because Addison’s toe was out of bounds.
‘Houdini’ played by Oregon’s Vernon Adams Jr. in ‘big play’ performance at Arizona State
Joseph Hoyt — October 30, 2015
TEMPE, Ariz — Before I take you to Oregon’s fourth and goal from the nine yard line, with 23 seconds left in the game at Sun Devil Stadium, let me first take you back to the practice fields at Eastern Washington University.
It was four years ago, during a practice in his freshman season, where the nickname, “Big play V.A.,” was given to Vernon Adams Jr. Adams was running from the pocket, backwards about 20-yards, making all his teammates on the defense miss. He then rolled to his right, located an open receiver, and fired a touchdown pass.
“It was there everyone started calling me Big play V.A.,” Adams said after Oregon’s 61-55 triple-overtime win over Arizona State.
But after Adams’ performance Thursday night — in which he went 23-of-40 passing for 315 yards and four touchdowns — the graduate-transfer’s teammates gave him a new nickname. It was a testament to his seemingly impossible escapes from herds of blitzing Sun Devils defenders all night.
“Now,” Adams said with a smile, “it’s Houdini.”
A smile wasn’t something Adams could muster after Oregon’s 31-28 loss to Michigan State on Sept. 12. Instead, the Oregon quarterback with a broken finger on his throwing hand sat at the postgame stage and relayed a simple message to reporters.
“It starts with me,” he said over and over again. “I’m putting this game on myself. I need to be better.”
The spotlight was on, and “Big play V.A.” had a shot to show the country in his first major game with Oregon that he had what it took to succeed. He missed it, overthrowing an open Byron Marshall for a chance to take the lead late in the fourth quarter.
A broken finger caused him to miss three of the next four games — he played against Utah but was pulled after completing two-of-seven passes for 26 yards — leaving the missed throw against Michigan State still fresh in his mind. He said it was tough for him. His teammates noticed, too.
“He’s a guy that wants to be the best,” Oregon wide receiver Bralon Addison said. “When he feels that he doesn’t play perfect, he puts himself in that place where he wants to be better. I think he’s a competitor — a true competitor.”
But after months of learning the team’s offense, Adams now feels a lot more comfortable.
“More so than I was (against) Eastern Wahsington and Michigan State,” he said. “And against Michigan State my finger was broken. But I feel really good now.”
An adjustment Adams had to make, aside from getting healthy, was learning to stay in the pocket. Coach Mark Helfrich made it a point with Adams during the bye week.
“He just needs to continue to trust the scheme a little bit and get his eyes in the right place, his feet in the right place, and then improvise,” Helfrich said. “That’s where a guy like that could be really lethal.”
Against Arizona State, Adams said he tried to stay in the pocket more. But he said he knew when he needed to escape, that he had the ability to do it.
A succesful scramble play is often two-fold. Adams needed to escape the pocket, but his receivers needed to get open too. Addison said it’s something they work on with Adams a lot in practice.
“We have a guy that can make people miss in the pocket,” Addison said. “He might seem like he’s wrapped up, but then he’s squiritng out of there.”
On fourth-and-goal from the nine-yard line, trailing Arizona State 41-34 with 23 seconds left, Adams pulled out a play reminiscent of one produced on the practice fields at Eastern Washington — the place where he became “Big play V.A.”
Adams dropped back, escaped the pocket, rolled right, and went backwards about 15 yards before locating Dwayne Stanford open in the end zone. He heaved it, and made the big throw to tie the game at 41 and send it into overtime.
In one play, Adams became Oregon’s version of Houdini.
“We have a quarterback out there who can be Houdini at any time,” wide receiver Darren Carrington said.
“It’s just exicting because you know whenever he’s out there, he’s going to make a big play. That’s why we call him, ‘Big play V.A.’ You have to always stay alive because the play is never over with him.”
http://www.dailyemerald.com/2015/10/30/houdini-played-by-oregon-quarterback-vernon-adams-jr-in-big-play-performance-against-arizona-state/
I’m not too down on SB. Not because I think he’s the next coming of Montana, but that I see him becoming more confident in the pocket. If his receivers didn’t drop the ball so much, we are having a different conversation.
I’m curious to see how the bye week will affect this team. Will the WRs come back and catch the ball? How will Ags look after not working the last few weeks on game day? Will SB keep gaining comfort and protect the ball better?
Or – will we see more of the same?
He needs time… probably more than one season.
I just want to see improvement. Last week was his best game. Stats won’t show it but it was encouraging.
Wow.
Can’t wait for Jerry Jones to say what an amazing leader he has become.
Hall of Fame post!
So what you are saying is the Cowboys are now going to try and sign Ratliff to a Longterm extension?
now THAT’s a killer instinct. franchise qb material even
If I were chip Kelly I would start Bradford all year, unless he has a explosively bad game. like the first two again. I think at some point you gotta bring up some young offensive linemen. I wanna see that guy bunche.
Can’t be experimenting with young Lineman as long as Bradford is in the game. SAM getting thru this seasn healthy is probably the most important thing that can happen to our Franchise.. I also like to get a look at BUNCHE, but not at the expense of Bradford..
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SAM NEEDS to get thru an entire season healthy…
My question to you now brother would be this. If Bradford does make it through the year totally healthy but continues playing at the level he is currently playing at, do you resign him?
i wouldn’t if he stopped improving, but if he continues to look a little better each week ( and i believe he has, for the most part, looked a little better each week) then i would. unless a better qb becomes available but i don’t see any
i guess i’d say resign him to something team-friendly, and don’t annoint him as our starter – if he’s better than the qb we might draft and any FA we can find, he starts next year, but he hasn’t shown enough to be exempt from open competition
My point exactly, treat him like they treated Sanchez. Good enough to get an ok contract but not good enough to be given big money and the starting job handed over to you.
gotta have some compettition in pre-season i say. Being in QB hell sucks. Like you might as well tank the season.
I would, and I would also expect Chip to… obviously if he doesn’t show some significant growth and results the second half of the season it will be a heavily protected extension and not the big crazy contracts SAM has been used to… Something like a cheaper pay as you go Kapernick type deal…
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The Kid is still as talented and has about as much untapped potential as any other QB we can get our hands on in the offseason. I would be strongly against giving up on him until we see what we can coach him into for ATLEAST 2 seasons… the Kid HASNT even had an offeseason yet in this franchise,.. to go from Not playing for two years, to learning a new offense and only been practicing in this new offense with these new teammates since August first, makes me think it’s probably not even possible to conclude that this is the best it will ever get for SAM..
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Essentially the kid rehabbed all offseason, started practicing with his new team August 1st and was thrown into the fire a month later.. And when he was thrown into a regular season game with only a month of practice, his OL And WRs haven’t played well enough consistently to be an environment conducive to a new QB’s success…. I have NO IDEA how GOOD SAM can become, but I’m fairly certain there is definitely More to his ability than we have seen… And not for nothing, but I liked a lot of what I saw from him in the carolina game, and if he continues to perform at that level, we should see a better offense the second half of this season, but for that to happen, THE OL and WRs NEED TO STEP UP AND DO THEIR PART..
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We can’t get any established top QB in the offseason.. Any QB we Can get will be attractive because of POTENTIAL that we will still have to coach up and be patient with.. And when it comes to untapped Potential and ability, SAM still has as much as any QB we will be able to get our hands on this offseason… And when trying to develope POTENTIAL, if you stick another developing QB in the mess of an offense Bradford finds himself in so far this year, I doubt another developing QB would have been much more successful than SAM has been..
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For me, matters get complicated if he can’t stay healthy and get thru the season, then I have no idea what we would decide to do…. But If he can get thru this entire year healthy, get thru the entire offseason/preseason healthy, with an improved OL and WR corp next year, I think we have to give him year two to show how good he can be.. I don’t believe we will find a better option with a higher upside and more untapped Potential than SAM…. I don’t know how good he can become, but I am fairly certain we have yet to even see close to his “ceiling” yet.. Just look at his play in the Carolina game, it clearly shows that he is still improving..
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7 games, in an offense that has had OL” RB and WR trouble ISNT enough to get an idea of what he can really become for us.
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Hopefully SAM makes this an easier decision by staying healthy and leading an Improved offense the second half of the season.. I do think we can win games with the QB we saw in Carolina, but not If his supporting cast dosnt get their shit together ASAP… curious to see how we look in Dallas and in Foxborough vs the Patriots…
That is how I feel as well. I would not be opposed to resigning Bradford but as long as Chip doesn’t hand out some nonsense lucrative contract because Bradford absolutely doesn’t deserve that. I just hope he isn’t so proud to the point that he wouldn’t accept a lower level Mark Sanchez like contract because that is what he deserves as of this moment, but that can change if he starts playing lights then he can get more.
NO EXCUSES HE DOESNT HAVE KILLER INSTINK CHIP IS GARBLE RABBLE GARBLE
That is a concern. However, I failed to mention I was talking about if we are in a losing season. Then we need to get some young players in there to develop them. I don’t think Sam would be pressing as much if the season is looking like a dud. He wont perhaps sit in the pocket and take unnecessary hits.
I’m with you. Unless things become an obvious implosion the move is to stick with Bradford. I think he’ll play better as the year goes on but I’ll be surprised if he goes into “this is our franchise QB” mode. I think he’ll play just good enough to talk about bringing him back, but not so good that it’s a slam dunk. FWIW, which isn’t much.
i’ve been quiet for a while but i have to weigh in. bradford has absolutely sucked so far but if you thought he’d come in lights out after two years gone and straight into a new system, you need your head checked. he’s shown improvement over time, which is the logical thing to have hoped for. continuity is key here, and making some dumb panic move because you don’t enjoy the discomfort of some bad losses is . . . just dumb. he might not be the dude but to think you know for a fact, at this point, what kind of qb he can be for this team is . . . just dumb. he’s looked terrible, but with limited time behind a patchwork OL and turds at WR. we better tear it all up and run chip out on a rail. and while we’re at it let’s get rid of that bum agholar, he’s had three months to put it all together! and billy davis obviously sucks too – did you see carolina run on us? i’ll bet this is all because luries so cheap.
Agree with you on Bradford and that’s it
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Agholor is a rookie and is currently hurt. No way you can label him a bum or bust already, that’s just dumb.
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Bill Davis sucks? The eagles have one of the better defenses in the NFL but yea lets get rid of Davis for that. The front 7 is still one of the best in the league but just because they gave up their 1st 100 yard rusher in like 25 games they’re bad to huh.
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Have any other expert analysis?
I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic at the end.
I certainly agree