Stay or Go?
Posted: December 1st, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 484 Comments »Chipmania continues.
The media was all over Chip at his afternoon PC with rumors that he had met with or talked to USC. Chip categorically denied them. He said he has no interest in any college job and remains committed to the Eagles.
There are lot of opinions out there about whether he should go or stay, as well as if he will go or stay. Peter King thinks Chip will be sticking around. BGN has the details.
However, I’ll just say that Andy Reid coached in Philadelphia for 14 years. The last six years he won one playoff game. And it wasn’t until after that sixth year when he went whatever he did, 4-12, that Jeff Lurie decided that it’s time for a change.
So if Chip Kelly jumps, he’s going to have to jump on his own because it’s not going to be a case where Jeff Lurie is going to go to him on January 4th and say ‘We want you out.’
In addition, I’ve been told by people in Philadelphia who know that Kelly is absolutely resolute about finishing the job there. Now whether he does get to finish the job there two, three years from now, who knows? But personally my feeling is Kelly is going to be back in 2016 coaching the Eagles.
Actually, Reid won 2 playoffs games in that span, both in 2008. But that’s beside the point. King is focusing on the right person in the equation…Jeff Lurie. We can all have an opinion about what should be done, but Lurie’s is the only one that really matters.
Lurie was loyal to Reid, but that was built up over time. They had a good relationship. I have no idea if Chip is close with Lurie or not. They have spent almost 3 years together, but Chip isn’t known as a big time socializer so who knows.
I do know that Lurie is both smart and patient. He won’t be afraid to make a move if he thinks it is the right thing to do. He also won’t make a move for the sake of change. He went all-in with Chip less than a year ago. Is all that faith gone this quickly?
Many of the most successful franchises around the league have had the same head coach in place for a long time. The importance of stability at the head coaching level cannot be understated. However, there comes a point when the negative outlook of a franchise dictates that a move is necessary to begin the process over again. I believe the tea leaves say that a continued regression is more likely than a turnaround to some kind of Super Bowl contender.
The only thing keeping the Eagles alive at this juncture in the 2015 season is that the NFC East is woefully incompetent, with the division-leading Redskins at the top with a 5-6 record.
Barring some sort of miraculous turnaround that involves the Eagles playing well down the stretch, winning the division, and playing reasonably well in the playoffs, the Eagles should be looking to part with Kelly after this season.
Go read Jimmy’s piece. He offers a lot of good thoughts and makes a strong argument.
Bill Barnwell, on the other hand, makes a good case for keeping Chip as coach.
Start with Kelly as a coach. He doesn’t exactly have the résumé of a guy about to be forced out of a job. Put the Thanksgiving mess aside for a moment and consider the body of work. The 2015 Eagles are a disappointing 4-7 after Thursday’s blowout, but Kelly is a combined 24-19 (.558), leading a team that had gone 4-12 in 2012 to consecutive 10-win seasons. To contrast, Gus Bradley took over a 2-14 Jaguars team that same offseason and has gone 11-31 (.262) since, and there has been no rent deposit put on a guillotine in Jacksonville. The argument from Kelly doubters is that the man has gone 5-10 in his past 15 games, but that’s a totally arbitrary end point. For reference, Kelly went 11-4 in the 15 games before that stretch, and you can see how much predicative value that 15-game sample had.
What’s even more impressive is thinking about who Kelly’s quarterbacks were during this stretch. He has managed to stay above .500 with Michael Vick, Nick Foles, Matt Barkley, Mark Sanchez and Sam Bradford taking snaps under center. Getting that motley crew of passers to keep their heads above water both speaks to Kelly’s ability to coach up limited quarterbacks and hints at the promise of how his attack could sing with a more accomplished passer at the helm.
Barnwell makes a compelling argument in favor of Kelly.
That’s the craziness of this whole situation. There is no obviously right or wrong answer. Just 2 weeks ago, I’d have thought the question of firing Chip was utter nonsense. Now I’m reading those articles and understanding some of their logic. This is just crazy.
I think the real key here is to let things play out. Kelly is facing a crisis unlike anything he’s ever dealt with. We need to see if he can push the right buttons or if this team is going to fall apart. If the Eagles pull off a miracle finish and go 9-7, Kelly isn’t going anywhere. If the team only wins one more game, that might be enough of a disaster to force Lurie’s hand.
We need to see what happens so we can put the whole season into context.
The past 2 games have really gotten Chip’s attention. I’m interested to see if that leads to any changes, big or little. I’m also curious to see how the team responds to his reaction from Thursday. Maybe it will bring out the best in all involved.
Or maybe this is the beginning of the end.
We’ll know a lot more in 5 weeks.
_
So at least we’re still not the Browns… The expressions on those players’ faces at the end there, that pretty much says it all.
I would be more upset To be a Ravens fan, see our team piss away top draft position to get a meaningless with against the Browns
Eh, they lost on a fluke play. At least they were in the game the entire time.
The magnitude of the Eagles awfulness the past two games–blown out by the mediocre Buccaneers and Lions–is what makes the prospect of Kelly getting fired realistic. If Kelly recognizes why things went wrong and has a solution to fix them, I would keep him around. If he fails to articulate this to Lurie, he should be fired. Namely, I do think there is a case for keeping Chip if he finally acknowledges that Billy Davis has wasted the talents of the Eagles defensive players.
The defense has been regressing for a month and we are seeing a pattern with Billy Davis being unable to use a potent front seven to generate a pass rush or contain run games to 200 yards! Not to mention Davis’s habitual failure to make basic adjustments like not leaving previously Bradley Fletcher or presently Eric Rowe on an island against a top 5 NFL receiver. I give more credit now to GM Chip than Davis for the defense’s earlier successes in the sense that it was and still is a talented group. GM Chip signed Maxwell and Thurmond, and drafted Jordan Hicks, not Davis. The failure of a coach to get players (Maxwell, Jenkins, Kendricks, Alonso) to play up to their potential indicates a firing is necessary. Whether Chip should stay or go is an open question. But there is no case to keep Davis around anymore.
I find this Davis hate fascinating. Until 2 weeks ago Davis’ defense was the only reason the Eagles had won any games at all. Two bad games and he must be fired?
The defense got better every year while the offense got worse every year. Why wouldn’t Kelly and/or Shurmur be the ones on the chopping block?
I would normally agree, but this issue of accountability that we’re hearing about from people like Jenkins and Barwin is troublesome.
If Davis is able to scheme the defense that Chip wants, that’s great. We finally saw pieces of how that could work in spurts this season.
But if he can’t motivate these players to consistently play at a high level, if he defers that to his position coaches, then there’s an issue. I don’t like coaches like Rex Ryan because of their bluster. But they definitely inspire their players to play hard for them. Davis seems to be missing any shred of that capability. If, indeed, he’s the source of the lack of accountability.
And Jenkins clearly stated how the Eagles D in the red zone is predictable.
Fuck what these pussies have to say about Redzone defense… Talk is cheap, tape says it all..
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In the Redzone, the friggin Lions lined up with Golden Tate as the fullback and a RB behind him… Anyone with half a brain knows that If you see Golden Tate lined up at Fullback, safe to say he won’t be lead blocking for the RB, and the ball won’t be handed off to Tate running from the Fullback spot. So it’s pretty obvious When you see a WR lined up at Fullback in the REDZONE that it’s going to be a pass play, Probabky looking for Golden Tate in the Flat, None of our defenders paid attention to golden Tate Linning up at FB, consequently he caught and easy TD pass…. The defender should have known he wasn’t going to block or run the ball, give him a one way go to the flat, turn, sprint to try and make the play
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Really pathetic to see such a simple basic play, lead to a TD..
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Billy Davis Wasnt on the field, why didn’t ANYONE, Jenkins, Thurmond, the LBs, Maxwell diagnose what Golden Tate Linning up at FB Probabky meant for the playcall?
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Blame Davis all you want, but if players aren’t identifying easy concepts like a WR at FB in the redzone, changing DCs probably won’t solve that problem… Shame on Captain Malcolm Jenkins for Noy diagnosing this in time to stop it..
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Kendricks is just as bad, he saw Theo Riddick line up too far to the left of the QB,,for it to have been a shotgun run, they Riddick would have had to be lineup up much closer to the QB… How far Theo Lined up away from the QB in the backfield was a dead Gve away for a passing Play, and Kendricks did nothing to stop such an easy to diagnose play call.. Once Kemdrcks gave Theo a “two way go”, Kendricks goose was cooked…
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defenders are underperforming so much, that for me, blaming Billy ISNT going to solve our curremt problems…if there is someone chip thinks can do a better job at DC after the season, be my guest and make the Change… But reality is that Billy Davis has done a much better job than chip this year, so I find it pretty useless to scapegoat him for chips shortcomings..
To me, the first 9 weeks of this year don’t make up for Davis’ larger body of work. His defenses in Arizona and SF were middling units, as they have been for much of his time here. When we’re creating turnovers and getting to the QB, it masks the consistencies with his defenses: tons of passing yards and TDs and poor to mediocre success on 3rd downs and in the red zone.
And I couldn’t believe when I heard Jenkins say that. During the second half of the Dolphins game, as they were making their come back, I turned to my brother and said, “it’s almost like Tannehill knows where the open receiver is going to be on each play.”
Oh, and how many leads have we given up this year? Let’s see … Atlanta, Washington .. we let Dallas tie multiple times a few weeks back … Miami … took a 7-0 lead against Tampa in it’s been a nightmare ever since…
Sometimes when the defense is performing well, I think it may be in spite of Davis. We’ve changed personnel in the secondary and the DB coach. But it’s been 3 years of the same problems and I just can’t believe the players are so bad that they can’t cover anyone. I watch a lot of the Red Zone so I see pieces of every team. I swear, no team gives up as many uncontested completions as the Eagles.
I had a point when I started that rant … I guess it’s just that I don’t think Davis is very good and our defense will always be inconsistent with him at the helm.
You could put Rex Ryan, Jim Johnson, or Bill Belichick in charge of the D and it still wouldn’t give the Eagles a winning record.
They are dealing with an offense that not only turned the ball over at one of the highest rates in the league and exposed them to more drives/snaps than pretty much every other team, but one that mostly couldn’t score more than 2 TDs without the D giving them a short field from a turnover.
I don’t believe Davis is a great coordinator, and I’m not even sure I’d go so far as good. Perhaps after the season when Chip or Pat Shurmur are let go for this pathetic offense, Davis should go with them. Having said that, the only reason to be angry with Billy Davis right now is his defense prevented the Eagles from getting the 1st overall draft pick their play has deserved.
I’m not saying anyone should go, or that Davis is the main problem. I agree that the offense is the main problem.
I disagree that Chip or Shurmur should go. I think they’ve committed to Chip, to they need to ride it out for at least another year. Chip the GM tried to do too much in one offseason and it cost us.
And while I don’t think a top notch defensive coach would be a sure fire fix to the problem, it sure as shit wouldn’t hurt. There are talented players on this defense, but they’re not playing consistently well. Regardless of what the offense is doing.
You should also check your stats.
* Eagles are #12 in offense. By comparison, Denver, a team with a great defense and a 9-2 record, is #18. So, yeah, a team with a good defense can overcome a crappy offense.
* Eagles are middle of the pack in turnovers. Nowhere close to “One of the highest rates in the league”. Highest turnovers given up is 14 by cleveland, followed by Tennessee with 11. 3 teams with 10, 2 teams with 9, 4 teams with 8. And then the Eagles, with 7, along with 3 other teams.
Rex Ryan, Jim Johnson, or Bill Belicheck could easily have this team with a winning record, especially considering the number of close games we lost. Only 2 were blowouts out of the 7 we lost.
You appear to be suffering from the endemic Philly rage that seems to strike so many Eagles fans. It obliterates reason. It leads to hyperbolic statements. If you want to vent, that’s one thing, but don’t confuse venting with actual breakdowns or analysis.
Perhaps you should check your stats, or at least explain where you’re getting them.
* #12 in offense based on what? That is not a meaningful statement without more detail. They’re #28 in yards per play and #26 in points per play. If you prefer DVOA, they’re #26 again (defense is #6).
* Eagles have the 2nd worst giveaways/game rate in the NFL (you only looked at fumbles):
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/giveaways-per-game
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake/sort/giveTotal
I’m not full of rage. I left anger behind weeks ago. Around that time, the Eagles had a top-ranked defense. Perhaps a better coach could have given them the slight edge required to hold on a win in a few games. You’d certainly hope it would help with 3rd and long. But perhaps most of the back 7 isn’t really that good, and Davis had them performing at a higher rate than should be expected.
On the other side, look at how the offense actually did in most games this year (including turnovers and 3 & outs). Look at the scoring drives and see how many were short due to the Eagles D being tied for #4 in takeaways/gm.
A better coach would help the defense, but unless you believe it’s a highly talented unit that’s going to waste (and I don’t), I doubt it would be enough.
NFL.com. And I’m not trying to say that the Eagles offense is good. I can say for certain that the Broncos offense this year has been pretty putrid outside of a few outlier games. That’s backed up by the stats. My point isn’t that the Eagles offense is good. It’s that there are teams with worse offenses, but better defenses (playing in harder divisions), with better records.
And I do think there is a great deal of talent going to waste. You’ve got talented players with a history of high performance at every level of the defense: Cox, Barwin, Kendricks, Alonso (injured), Thurmond, Jenkins, and Maxwell (yes, even him). All of these players have played demonstrably well with both Davis and other coordinators. I’m not saying this defense is stacked, or should be the best ever, simply that there is a lot of talent spread out there, and that a good coach would take advantage of it. Other defenses are playing as well or better with less talent, including Atlanta, Dallas, and Washington.
And I don’t know for certain that Davis is entirely the problem. I’m starting to wonder, though, in light of what the players have been saying. Players whose opinions I tend to trust.
At the end of the day, I think there was simply too much turnover at skill positions on offense, and too bare a cupboard on offensive line, for Chip to have overcome everything in one offseason. It was Chip’s inability to fix the OL problems, along with a series of gambles that could have paid off but really didn’t, that doomed this team this year.
As long as he still has the support of the players, I believe there is hope for next year.
NFL.com’s team rankings don’t mean much since they just do it per game (also you didn’t mention the “20th in points/game” ranking). Jimmy covered that whole per-game/per-drive deal a while ago and again recently in this piece:
http://www.phillyvoice.com/barring-miraculous-turnaround-eagles-should-fire-chip-kelly/
Cox is elite. Barwin and Jenkins are good (if not elite) players, I agree. Kendricks is a mystery at this point. Maxwell was good as a part of a top defensive unit. Alonso had one good season as part of a top unit. Thurmond? Signed a 1 year deal for $3m and if you think he’s good that’s a point *for* Davis and his staff.
I suspect we’ll have to agree to disagree about the quality of the ATL/DAL/WAS defenses. DVOA disagrees as well, if that means anything.
The sorry state of the offensive e line is the single most important reason for the team’s decline. They don’t open lanes for RBs of give QBs time to go through progressions. No. Ex tended drives leaves the defense on the field too long and. Leaves them exposed.
Also, I think you’re overrating the talent on defense. Jenkins is a good safety. Maxwell is adequate, if overpaid. Barwin is versatile and valuable, but not exactly a top pass rusher. The ILBs are a confusing mess.
About the only player you can say is elite is Fletcher Cox (and maybe Logan), and he has played consistently well.
You don’t have to have ELITE players at every position, just good to very good at most, and ELITE at some key positions. Talent-wise, we do have that, and they’re underperforming. It’s not like last year, where there were simply talent holes (or like this year on the OL and at WR).
basically what kelly said today.
More than two bad games. The D hasn’t been getting key stops from the Carolina game forward. The repetitious nature of non-adaptations in coverage and pass rush coupled by odd breakdowns in run D vs inferior personnel falls squarely on Davis.
Until the TB game in week 11 the D hadn’t allowed more than than 27 points in a game and was highly ranked in “per drive” stats and DVOA. It was a flawed defense, true, and the 3rd and long breakdowns especially annoyed me, but it was by far the best unit on the team.
The Kelly/Shurmur offense has been terrible all year, except for perhaps one week against the *Saints defense*. I’m looking at this like triage: fix the gaping wound on offense first, then we can worry about the rash.
Davis wasn’t being “canonized”; he went from being viewed as incompetent to being OK if he had quality players. He’s never been considered a defensive genius and certainly is slow to adapt in-game.
No, people were canonizing him a few weeks ago after the Giants game. Tommy had a post about it.
The only canonizing I remember being suggested for Davis involved an actual canon.
There was a lot of talk about crow consumption. It’s like they completely forgot Davis’ defense allowed Kirk Cousins to lead a 90-yard game-winning drive.
Blue tablets & an actual canon. Well done!
In the last 50 years, the only DC who would take the first step to sainthood would be JJ. Some would also include Buddy Ryan. Marion Campbell might get some consideration. Davis doesn’t even warrant mention in this circle.
It’s because it’s easier to fire a DC. Firing Chip would mean total reboot, would mean everything we’ve done the last 3 years has been a mistake. That’s a hard pill to swallow.
Billy’s D has improved as massive resources have been allocated to it. His inability to adjust, win Xs and Os matchups, and finish off teams when a stop is needed is a deal-breaker. He needs to be upgraded; but it’s an open question whether it should be now or later.
Keeping a rookie CB on one of the best receivers in the league for the entire game – with no safety help! That’s poor coaching!
They have been consistently at or near the bottom of pass defense since he came here. Same with points against. Most of the stats for the last three years show an overall poorly-coached defense.
If you look at points or yards per game, sure. Not sure why you would.
In more meaningful stats (like yards/points per drive) or using a method like DVOA, the defense has shown improvement. Especially compared to the last few years under Reid.
Points per drive? Really? Have you been watching the games?
Surprisingly, yes, as an Eagles fan I regularly torture myself by watching the games. If you want to argue stats, you should probably back that up, preferably with one that’s meaningful. If the Eagles defense faces 30% more snaps it’s reasonable to assume the yards and points allowed will be inflated. Yards/points per game isn’t very meaningful, because there’s no context.
It is interesting that the talk on this blog has turned to Bill Davis. I have to wonder myself about him. Why he does not plan to give help to help who are weak (Fletcher last year against Dez, Rowe replacing Carroll, etc.) I do not pretend to be an expert on football, but I do see other coaches trying to take away strengths (eg, Belicheck).
Chip to me is most interesting. I find his singular focus of getting the players that suit his system commendable and valuable. No other GMs I have heard of spend the amount of time devoted to this effort.
However, that is not the problem the Eagles have right now. Exactly what is their problem is a mystery to me. If Chip needs to be more engaging with the players that is potentially an easy fix. However, the one potential problem I see as not so easy has to do with time of possession. The defense takes the brunt of the offenses inability to sustain drives. Are the defensive players showing the stress, giving up/shutting down because of the offenses lack of success ? Chip working on being more interactive with players could be easy resolved. However, the sustaining drives by the offense is a bigger issue, if, in fact, that is the problem. there are ways to adjust the offense, but that would require Chip to change his strategy of fast, fast and faster. Can he/will he consider this ? If he does will he make a change ?
If this is the problem then correcting it will require a major change in Chip’s strategy/philosophy of running the offense.
That seems a bit disingenuous. Winning 2 playoff games in his last 6 years probably mattered less than the 8 playoff games he won in the 8 years before that. That earned him the right to struggle.
Acknowledging Andy had Donovan and JJ to help him out, he made the playoffs 2 of his first 3 seasons. He went from 5th to 2nd to 1st in the NFC East. He went from missing the playoffs, to winning a wild card game, to being narrowly beaten in the NFC championship by the “Greatest Show on Turf”. He showed progress each year and not only made the playoffs but won games once he got there.
This season the NFC East might be the worst division in football. The schedule wasn’t particularly tough (it’s week 12 and they’ve only played 1 good team). Chip had a roster he hand-picked. And we’ve seen the results. Lurie was patient with a coach with a plan to build a franchise team and who started winning playoff games in his second year. Not sure that patience means anything when it comes to Chip.
lurie knows we don’t have a qb
I think Bradford sucks and always have but better roster management by Chip and they could/should have easily won the division this year.
We went 10-6 twice in a row, not sure 1 losing season should matter at all.
Not saying they are equal, but look at team like the Bengals, Panthers or even the Saints before the last 2 seasons.
The Saints went 10-6, 7-9 and 8-8 the first 3 years under Sean Payton.
going 10-6 in year two is tainted because if you take into consideration the fact that we started 9-3, finishing 10-6 DOESNT look as good
So what? Point is, you do not fire a coach after just 1 losing season unless you are Al Davis or the Browns.
Or if he comprehensively destroys the roster while losing a locker room full of players hand picked for being boy scouts.
Whoever coined that phrase has never tried to lead a boy scout pack meeting.
10-6 in a weak division with no playoff wins isn’t necessarily enough to keep the average coach’s job safe, especially if the needle appears to be pointing down. I expect Lurie to give Chip at least another season, barring an epic collapse, but it has little or nothing to do with his well-earned trust in Andy Reid.
Again, somehow people forget or ignore than Reid PICKED JJ and McNabb…they did not show up by accident, lol
The last few games have sucked hard, but I still think this team can turn it around. It won’t be where we hoped to start the year, but if they can put together a statement win against a very banged up Patriots team I could see them winning out from here – the Cardinals are the only other good team they play and I’m still convinced this team has talent, they just got ta remember they have talent.
The most ridiculous part of all of this is that wins against Bills, Giants and Redskins could win us the division at 7-9. And its not unthinkable. I would contend that all these teams are worse than both the lions and the bucs right now. Which is to say they are bad. These are winnable games if the eagles just get Bradford back, play to the level of their first 8 games and stop missing easy fieldgoals. Of course they will be expected to be trounced in the first round of the playoffs, but with the way this team is extremely up and down I could see them suddenly playing a great game on offense out of nowhere and win one. In fact, I think the irony of that whole situation would be the perfect way to close out this season for the eagles. Kelly gets his first playoff win in the season where he absolutely failed as a GM and coach and everybody was screaming for him to get fired. Let me check the Vegas odds on that real quick..
The math says you’re correct.
The way the team has played says you’re incorrect.
In either case, this will be a fascinating end to the season.
I generally like it when math agrees with me. So often in life it seems things have to be the other way around.
Whoever wins this pathetic division is going to get screwed Big Time in draft position.. If 8-8 wins This division, they should pick in the 13-17 range…. But winning the division will make a team fall into the 20s, and NFC east teams really aren’t good enough to where they should be picking outside of the top 15
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We don’t draft well enough to really care that much about draft position, but it’s intersting that the crappy team that wins this division is going to get screwed in terms of draft positioning
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As crazy as this sounds, think the skins have the best chance of winning a playoff game if they make the playoffs. Simply because the division winner gets a home playoff game, and Cousins and the skins play real tough at home, but are a disaster on the road
I agree about the Redskins. They dont play a single team with a winning record the rest of the way. And thats fine by me. I can’t wait to see Snyder ink Cousins to a five year, 100 mio. dollar contract.
It took a very long time to see Andy Reid get fired, but Andy never had the team quit on him like it happened the last 2 games. Completely different situation.
Using the W/L record of previous 2 seasons to justify keeping him while the team just go trashed by 2 average to below average NFL teams in a historical way is like saying “Yeah Jenni did cheat on me with 10 different guys the past few months, including my best mate, my father and my 12 year old cousin, but you know, those 2005-2007 years we had together were so great, I can’t really end such a great relationship!”
2005 the team quit on AR after just reaching the SB.
If you overreact to 1 bad season, you end up been the Raiders (although hitting on Carr in round 2 means their future looks better, but they still aint there yet) or Browns.
I remember the Owens nightmare, the opening game fight/suspension(Mike Labinjo!), injuries everywhere (Westbrook, McNabb) but apart from a blowout vs Seattle (I have nightmares of Tatupu on a regular basis), with an offense led by MacMahon, Greg Lewis and Ryan Moats, they were not as ridiculous as the more talented 2015 Eagles the last 2 games.
The team NEVER quit on Reid. Players always loved him, and loved playing for him. That was a huge reason he stayed for so long despite his playcalling, time management, and roster building issues.
The locker room was split in Owens versus McNabb, that is quiting on the coach/QB
So locker room divided over those 2 players mean quitting on the coach? Wow, I guess we don’t have the same definition then.
The locker room was toxic that year. Also read Hugh Douglas comments about McNabb and Reid (he was one of the biggest Owens supports)
I thought Hugh Douglas got into a naked locker room brawl with Owens?
Trotter
Wasn’t trotter, was a DL. Which was weird, because the story was that Owens managed to body-slam him. Trotter would have killed TO 🙂
Darwin Walker?
The locker room was divided, yes, toxic, maybe a bit, but that does not mean players hated Reid. McNabb in fact was one divisive figure during this tenure, Reid never was. How many players stated multiple times they love(d) playing for him?
Have you seen that much those last days? I’ve seen a few players saying they need to react, do their job, etc., I’ve seen no one stating it’s a blast playing for Chip, they’re behind him 200%, etc. You can be the biggest genius on the planet, and have a stellar record, if the team does not buy into what you’re doing anymore, it does not matter.
Juan Castillo’s press conference after getting fired says everything you need to know about Andy Reid.
Mike Labinjo!!! I sometimes think about that game but I could never remember his name. Another young Eagles linebacker that looked so good in pre-season and spot duty, then sucked a d*ck when it really counted. Ugh.
Oh, and I agree with you 100% on this.
They did not quit on Reid…the team has massive injuries and TO went nuts.
“King is focusing on the right person in the equation…Jeff Lurie. We can all have an opinion about what should be done, but Lurie’s is the only one that really matters.”
This is why I’m still not calling for Kelly to be fired.
I’d much rather focus on upgrading the DC and roster.
I guess there are two roads.
1 – Fire Chip. Anybody have any good possible names for the next head coach. Preferably better than that mental midget Sean McDermott (and parroted by Ruben Frank) and his all-time worst red zone D and inability to handle a D without Ron Rivera setting up the scheme and all-pro level guys at 4 or 5 spots?
2 – Have Chip make the necessary improvements to the team. If so, what should we do? I’m a firm believer in “dream team” level of free agent additions don’t work for the entire team, but we MUST fix this O-line. I’m also of the believe that a DC (and I wish I had a name) who can match players to scheme to in-game adjustments would get more stops in key spots. I’m prepared to get flamed over the following contention; this team can win a division with ease if the o-line is improved in front of Bradford in 2016. We can transition tag him for appx $16 to $18 mil and I doubt we’d lose him to a big money offer sheet to another team. We can draft a QB and go from there. But we absolutely must not add any type of trash running QB to this team. I don’t want my team sullied by having that type of garbage on the TV each week.
The trash running QB Cam Newton would be so bad for this team right?
Also was McNabb, Vick and Cunningham so bad for your sanity that you didnt watch em sully your TV?
Cam isn’t trash
Sadly Mike thinks so
Winning changes a lot of attitudes.
Cunningham, as the ultimate weapon, was enthralling to watch as I came up watching him quarterback the Eagles. Sadly, all of his running around created a dead end of a QB who didn’t develop the necessary skills as a passer to really win anything. It took until after he left here for me to understand why people would call him Candle Runningham and swore the Eagles would never win with a QB running around like that. It took until his time with the Vikings for Cunningham to really learn how to sit in the pocket, read a D, and let his passing talent take hold. Shame he was never coached to stop running learning and learn how to play QB the right way until after he left the Eagles.
McNabb quickly became one of my favorite Eagles because he made a career out of learning how to read a D by not running and avoiding throwing INTs. Sadly his footwork never settled down enough to make him a truly elite player, but I remain a huge fan of his work as our QB. But he was never a running QB.
Vick, with the exception of an amazing stretch in 2010, was an imbecile of a QB. He never played the game the right way in Atlanta and reverted to a turnover factory in 2011 and beyond here.
Scam Newton, is an overrated clown. The record of that team is a team accomplishment. He is the twentieth rated passer in the NFL and has an abysmal completion percentage.
I need to have a QB here who plays the game the right way.
WTF is the right way? I mean does Nick Foles play the right way?
1- Finding a new HC would be way down the list. The next GM would be more important. He would then pick his guy. I have no names for possible GM.
2- If Billy goes I’d rather make a splash than get a retread like Mike Nolan. I got a name for you
Jeremy Pruitt: DB coach of the ’10 and ’12 national champion Tide teams. DC for FSU for their Natty. Been at Georgia for the past two years. They are top in the country in pass defense (he’s DB coach as well). Bamas and FSU were both 43 but more hybrid in nature. Georgia is a 34. His players want him to stay but if he doesn’t love the new HC Chip could offer him a ton more money and complete autonomy.
Jeremy Pruitt is a very interesting choice, but not sure Kelly fires Davis.
What if Lurie grows some balls and forces that on Chip?
Why would Lurie ever do that? If he does it, he can just as well fire Chip first
Not sure what you’re advocating, but I’d be perfectly fine with that. Getting rid of Davis seems like a no-brainer, and if Chip can’t see that, all the more reason to dump him.
You’re advocating an owner micromanaging.
No I’m not
I’m not either
in this scenario why isn’t Howie the GM?
I don’t think they can move forward with Howie as GM. And I’m a Howie fan, but he was kicked out of football operations 12 months ago, It would be rash to give him back the reigns. I think Lurie kept Howie on because he didn’t deserve to be outright fired. I think they part ways this offseason with or without Chip.
so you don’t think he’s being kept around in case Chip fails?
Seriously. There was no reason to keep him around otherwise, much less give him a raise.
Bringing in a college coach for DC seems really weird to me.
Unless Lurie writes a statement that Chip won’t be fired in either 2015 or 2016, and signs it in blood, I think Chip will be on a really hot seat next year.
Given that, I don’t think he’d want a DC without NFL experience who has to learn the changes from college to the pro game with potentially only 1 year to do it, and do it well. Unless he were looking for a scapegoat for a bad 2016 season, and given that he’s the one who hired him I’m not sure that would work.
Just since it’s a source of drama with the in-laws, Alabama did not win the 2010 national championship… That was Auburn. (‘Bama won in 2009, and seemingly every other year throughout history). (Double complete parentheses: technically Alabama won the 2009 championship in 2010, to confuse matters)
Thank you, that is a name to follow.
[…] Stay or Go? – Iggles BlitzLurie was loyal to Reid, but that was built up over time. They had a good relationship. I have no idea if Chip is close with Lurie or not. They have spent almost 3 years together, but Chip isn’t known as a big time socializer so who knows. I do know that Lurie is both smart and patient. He won’t be afraid to make a move if he thinks it is the right thing to do. He also won’t make a move for the sake of change. He went all-in with Chip less than a year ago. Is all that faith gone this quickly? […]
There will be changes, at the least scapegoats will be jettisoned, and CK’s wings will be clipped ( if only privately). There. Is one person walking around the Nova Care complex with a “I told you so” .look on his face – Roseman. And remember Lurie didn’t cut ties with him and Howie didn’t quit in a huff. Lurie hedgeed his bets by keeping him around, as if to give himself options if total authority for CK didn’t work. For the public, changes will be made in the coaching assistants – DC will be gone and QB coach will be replaced by a seasoned NFL veteran. Internally, HK will be back in the loop on football matters ( though this will be done quietly inside the organization). In any future trades, 2nd round draft choices will be coming to the Eages not going.
Why do you think the DC will be fired? Also why should the QB coach be fired consider Bradford made serious progress before getting hurt?
The strange thing has been the collapse of the defense when Bradford went out. Maybe the Sanchez int against Miami let the air out. Very strange.
Defense is all about focus and intensity. If focus is not there, everything falls apart.
My hope is that players think sanchez is horrible. And bradford getting injured completely demoralized the defense that had been fighting to hold it down until the offense started to click…. But that is probably wishful thinking on my part… If by Some LONGSHOT, this is actually true, maybe/hopefully the return of Bradford energizes the defense
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If chip rolls out a predictable Gameplan against Belllichick, the Pats will destroy us…. Facing Bellicheat has caused opponents to do some crazy things trying to catch Bellichick off guard, for example the Colts crazy dysfunctional fake punt formation disaster.. Wonder how much change chip whips out for his fist time coaching against Bellichick…
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If Chip dares roll into New England with a very predictable game plan. Bellichick will devour us….better have some tricks up your sleeve that we haven’t put on tape yet
I actually have a good feeling for Sunday. Not sure why. Maybe it’s because it will be Brady and a bunch of backups. A win there would be huge for the fanbase.
Meh… A WIN does NOTHING for me, I don’t care who it comes against… We have had “a win” a few times this year, then when it’s time to build on the win, we fall flat on our faces… A win means nothing to me.. get a WIN, and then Follow it up with another win, and then they will have my attention..
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Beating Brady and the junior varsity Patriots means NOTHING to me unless they build on it the following week…. We have failed miserably to build on a win this year
a win agains the pats would be a HUGE moral booster. PATS OR ARI.
right I don’t get the oh well we beat the Pats but Gronk is out. Who cares beating the Pats would be awesome. I doubt it will happen, but I’ll be wicked excited if it does.
I dont care if Gronk plays, a win still does NOTHING for me. I been in this position too many times this year, hoping to get a win that sparks a turnaround… Fool me once, fool me twice, now you are going to have to show me that you can put together two wins in a row before I get excited..
And when we aren’t even competitive against Tampa, and Detroit, I don’t thumb my nose at beating anyone… But so far, a win hasn’t lead to shit… Show me you can win two games in a row against ANY TEAM, and then I’ll take this team serious
The offense needs to be beefed up and revamped even if it means the defense suffers. The system is built upon an offense that can demoralize and emotionally take opposing teams out of the game early. It can’t happen with a broken 0-line, and #3, #4, #5 receivers.
Another note Billy Davis needs to go first if anything. WIth the talent, age, & experience he has on that D, there should be no excuse for it to not be a top 10 (really top 5) D. I understand TOP is important, but it’s on par with the 2013-14 seasons With more talent and probably the best front 7 i have seen in a very long time. No excuse.
a few thoughts:
Lurie hired Chip because he was a program builder. Because he was a smart guy and could learn and innovate etc. I don’t see Lurie now firing him this soon. That seems like a big over reaction to me.
our front 7 isn’t ALL that, we get little pass rush. Let’s stop talking like it’s a HOF group.
I really think Chip was mean to Kempski at camp last year or something, because since then he’s been really negative and just piles on and on, so I can’t take his hot takes now as if it’s some well thought out, took a long time to get to conclusion. It’s the same conclusion he had made back then. Now he’s just filling in the facts to fit his argument.
NEED a pass rusher, i’d even take another curry since good 34 olbs that can rush are REALLY hard to find
Jimmy has gone to the Skip Bayless school of sports writing lately. Is it easier to predict great things or terrible things? Easy… terrible, because the odds are against every team every year winning the super bowl. The choice of writing terrible things increases clicks, and if you’re wrong it’s no big deal because the fans are all happy anyway. It’s like a formula that guarantees success. And that is the number one reason why I stay away from sports writers who take a negative slant the majority of the time. I’m kinda bummed that Jimmy is moving that way.
The Eagles have a losing record, a frankly terrible offense, and just allowed 45 points in consecutive games to teams that are mediocre at best. What slant should he be taking?
He could continue being satirical and funny. He could focus on the draft if he believes the season is over. He could spend time trying to get player interviews that are worthwhile or entertaining like the Vandervelde stuff. And that only took me about a minute to figure out. His career is trying to figure it out. Instead he is taking the easy way out… the Skip Bayless method.
“He is being satirical and funny”:
http://www.phillyvoice.com/chip-kelly-back-college-report-mad-libs/
“He could focus on the draft if he believes the season is over”:
http://www.phillyvoice.com/grocery-shopping-5-college-players-watch-eagles-13/
“He could spend time trying to get player interviews that are worthwhile or entertaining like the Vandervelde stuff”:
I can’t find *recent* examples, but I also can’t imagine the players feeling all that whimsical these days for obvious reasons.
Skip Bayless is an absurd comparison. Skip shouts something like “Fire Chip!”. Jimmy writes this:
http://www.phillyvoice.com/barring-miraculous-turnaround-eagles-should-fire-chip-kelly/
ESP and Howard Eskin are firmly established on the Bayless Highway. Jimmy isn’t.
I said lately he’s taking the easy way out. I hope the trend doesn’t continue and that he can make it fun again.
He did have some funny tweets last night, but lately in my opinion he’s been pretty extremist/negative.
I read the Fire Chip piece, and it is better than Bayless, but the QB section and the culture section felt like hyperbole to me.
It’s an opinion. You don’t have to agree.
It’s not a matter of agreeing, it’s that I genuinely don’t understand where it’s coming from. He’s been negative, but that’s not hard for me to understand.
Also, I should note that I haven’t watched Bayless, or read anything from Les Bowen, ESP, Eskin, etc in a few years so I may be using an unfair comparison due to not really being aware anymore of just how bad those guys are.
The people who were negative were RIGHT.
the team is 4-7 in an awful division. If you want to give Chip the coach of the year award thats cool but the season has been a disaster primarily b/c of the moves Chip made both on and off the field.
Chip has never built a program (his only previous stint as HC lasted a total of 4 years), so I’m not sure where Lurie would have gotten that idea.
As for Jimmy, bitching about him would make a lot more sense if he hadn’t been right about pretty much everything, for the right reasons, all season.
if the season ended today we would have the 9th pick, 70th pick and 77th pick…. No round 2 pick…
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Top 10 pick? Hello Jaylen Ramsey/Defforest Buckner
Unless Kelly 100% believes in Bradford long term, we gotta take a QB top 7.
Bradford is getting extended I assume, as long as he doesn’t shred his knee or Achilles again… There are only two QBs I see that have a shot at going top 10, and since we ain’t the only bad team looking for a stud QB in the draft, I have a hard time believing one of the top guys falls to #9..
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I worry there won’t be a QB worthy of the #9th pick… If we end up sucking the rest of the year maybe we get up to #5’or #6 and have a better shot at QB
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But if there is no QB availabke worthy of that spot, there isn’t a player who could be available that would make me want to pass on Ramsey…. It’s RARE that I like a DB prospect these days, and we are talking about a rare stud that could warrant a top 10 pick at Corner or SAFETY… Probably the best DB prospect since Desmond Trufant, and the first Safety worthy of a top 10 pick since Earl Thomas and Eric Berry, because Mark Barron was a pretender..
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QB, LT, Edge rusher, CB most important positions that provide the most bang for our Buck, doesn’t hurt that we could use help at all those positions.
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Of Course, falling to #9 May even be a pipe dream for Ramsey, but if there isn’t a QB available for us to pick, there is no player in this draft that I would be ok with passing on Ramsey for if he is still on the board… Rare rare rare Can’t Miss DB
Just out of curiosity:
How come Ramsey hasn’t picked off at least one pass yet? According to his stats he’s got 9 PBUs and only 1 sack on the season so far…
They need to take an offensive lineman top 7.
except for the blame he gets for getting hurt, Bradford is not to blame for the three game skid. When he got hurt they were up by 3 points. Then got hurt. Then collapse on both sides of the ball. Still wonder if this is coincidence, or if defense gave up because of a transformative distrust in Sanchez to lead an offense that would help the defense stay off the field.
If Bradford plays as well as he did the past three games he played, the rest of the season, then will be back if accepts an extension.
So far, the defense has been on the feild for 83 minutes more than the offense… At this rate, by the end of the year, the defense will have played an extra 2 complete games, which is really like an extra 4 games of defense and offense splitting 60minutes on game day
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The defense is on pace to play 4 games more than chips offense
time during plays or just time on the field?
Good article Tommy, It’s tough to tell, you’re right, everything depends on how these final games go. If the team quits on him and we get blown out the rest of the year, it would be really hard for him to get the team back. If he quick-talks the team back to playing competitive football (style points matter here), then has a plan the team can buy into going forward, I could see him staying, or rather being allowed to stay (I’m not a bit convinced Chip wants to be here)
Chip Kelly has always done things…different. The hook is when it all works. The science makes you feel better, the wins help you buy in. Take away the wins and I think Chip is in an especially precarious position. In these situations the Coach has to be as accountable to his team as the team is to him. “Keep grinding” won’t cut it, the team needs a plan to buy into.
That’s always been my biggest issue with Kelly. What’s the plan? Is there one or is he flying by the seat of his pants? With Andy, you at least knew the plan.
I’d say ride it out with Chip for another two years.
If the team falls apart, then at least the new GM/Coach combo will have some good draft picks to work with.
If the Eagles pull off a miracle finish and go 9-7, Kelly isn’t going anywhere. If the team only wins one more game, that might be enough of a disaster to force Lurie’s hand.
I kindly beg to differ, Tommy.
I strongly believe that Chip will be even back if the Eagles miss the playoffs and finish the season 6-10 or 7-9.
Remember that their remaining schedule is the most difficult in the NFC East, having to play two of the best teams in the league (NE, ARI). Provided the Eagles don’t lose those games by more than 28 points and at least finish the season with a positive NFC East record I can’t see Lurie pulling the trigger after only 3 seasons of Chip.
They are going to finish 4-12. What say you then?
Then I’d say you are Nostradamus.
and Kelly would still return.
I am replying to this just so that when they go 4-12 you can refer to me as Nostradamus from then on out.
I said this on the last topic and I’ll repeat it again, anyone who wants Chip fired assumes he has no ability to learn from his mistakes. Those that cite the teams record getting worse, never account for Foles record setting year being an aberration and how he’s sitting on the bench on St. Louis right now. They forget that Mark Sanchez directed the offense to a pretty terrible record last year and this year. They also forget the most important reason this team is failing, we have no franchise QB. I’ll repeat that to let it sink in, Chips been here less than 3 years with no franchise QB and people assume he can’t coach.
Everyone wants to bring up culture and “losing the team”. When you lose, you lose the team. When you win, you win over the team. Chip even said it in his press conference. I think you lose the team without a franchise QB to hold you together. If this offseason Chip drafts a QB in round 1, guys will jump right back on board…they will be given hope. Right now, they have no hope with Sanchez or Bradford. It’s easy to get down when Tom Brady’s not leading the ship.
Tommy, I know Jimmy Bama is your buddy, but using an article written by him really skews your analysis of the situation. The media anymore seem to fall into one of three categories; journalists, analysts, and instigators. Jimmy’s articles over the past 2 years follow the same pattern…how can I get clicks on my website and instigate reaction by negativity or belittling players and/or coaches. Ugh, for a person like me who tends to have a positive attitude on everything, it drains the soul right out of me. But these instigator articles aren’t written for me, they’re written for the negative masses…the Debbie Downers, the Negative Nancy’s.
It’s crazy to think that 20 years ago when I started reading Tommy’s posts on TATE, I was a recent college grad hungry for all information on the Eagles and reading all sources of information. Every year I added more and more websites to follow. Now it seems with the advent of Twitter, I am in the opposite boat, I unfollow more and more media members since most now fall into the role of instigator.
It’s a sad day when he media can now potentially get a coach fired by instigating negativity in the masses based on spewing misleading statistics and playing Monday morning quarterback.
Sorry for my rant. Back to my main point, if Chip is the man we were told he was when he was hired, he will analyze the problems, try to learn from his mistakes, and adapt his approach to coaching, drafting, training, and offensive/defensive schemes. Einstein said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I would argue that the definition of insanity is never giving someone the chance to learn from their mistakes because they didn’t do it perfect the first time.
I believe he has a chance as a coach to turn it around. His decisions as a GM though have been so poor and have set the team far back enough to the point that a small improvement is not enough.
Chip has no good will to draw back on from the personnel side of things.
Can you list the poor decisions that have set us back far enough that cannot be corrected?
Should they have overpaid for Maclin?
Should they have drafted a QB last year?
McCoy has been injured for Buffalo
Herremans has been benched for the Colts
Mathis has been injured and ineffective for the Broncos
Foles has been inneffective and benched for the Rams
Bradford has been a disappointing but without going all Monday morning QB, what should Chip have done at QB?
If he drafts o-lineman next year and picks up a few free agent o-lineman next year, we could be fine on the line.
QB is the major unknown. You speak in absolutes that in 11 months, Chip as the GM has caused irreparable conditions. What exactly cannot be repaired?
Chip also drafted Hicks and grabbed and converted Thurmond to safety. He also signed some of the most important assets we have on Defense. I’m right with you here, I think as a GM he made some mistakes (he really should have kept Mathis and cut him only after he knew what we had on the o-line in real-time live play). All GMs make mistakes, the great ones learn to learn and adjust from them. I hope Lurie will give Chip Kelly that chance.
I think they should have kept one out of DeSean or Maclin. Kelly knew how to use them and how to get them to be highly productive while he developed the younger WRs.
I cannot see any argument for Kelly being able to evaluate QB talent at an acceptable level. Bradford may turn it around, but even some of the most patient writers (Tommy) have already stated that it does not look like Bradford is a franchise QB *already*. Reviewing the moves made at the QB position since Kelly has been here, none of them grade out well. He gave up a 2nd round pick, so there was a significant draft asset in addition to a significant cap hit this year; that cap space could have helped when looking to extend current players. I hope Bradford pans out, but as of now the move does not grade well.
The complete failure to upgrade an aging OL is on Chip and is the #1 reason this offense is not clicking. Our OL play has regressed year to year, from being the strength of the team in 2013 to what we have now. Chip neglected the position. It will take time and resources to build it back. I never said it was irreparable… I did state that Chip the GM has set back the team and it is hard to take a stand that the OL has not been set back. Barbre should be a 6th man. Kelly, Gardner and Tobin should be fighting for spots 7 and 8 at best. This unit has a ways to go to get back to the 2013 level of play.
The contract to Murray… we are stuck with that at least one more year. Those are cap resources that cannot reassigned to other units. It was a poor contract to a player who took many snaps a year ago and had a career year running in a system that better suits him behind a very good offensive line. This move is hard to justify, even more so when considering how RBs are devalued financially and in terms of the draft in recent years.
The moves he made don’t seem geared to a rebuild – it was rather a face-lift. We are a much older team now than in 2013 in comparison to the league, but the talent level has regressed. We do not appear to be building towards anything positive.
All that said…
I understood the Maxwell move; he is overpaid but this was a position worthy of desperation. Kelly I thought had a decent draft, and some of his FA moves worked. The above failures though really soured me on him. They are worse than rookie GM mistakes… he wants a tough, physical team but failed to address one of the most critical units towards obtaining just that.
what should they do at QB?
Honestly… I don’t know. I don’t pretend to be a GM. My best guess at this point –
I tend to think that, for the Eagles, we need to go BPA 1st rd unless there is a definite franchise-caliber QB available. Bradford was not that. I would prefer to sure up the OL 1st – get an elite talent there since I don’t think there is an elite QB in this draft.
A very good OL will mask OK QB play.
I would try continue to draft mid rd QBs every two years though until I get a chance at a franchise-caliber prospect.
While I’ll happily concede Jimmy is an instigator on Twitter — mostly with regards to the rest of the NFC East — I don’t agree in the slightest with your evaluation of his articles. If you choose to avoid negativity, I can sympathize, but I’d rather read honest evaluations of the team rather than puff pieces or carefully selected stats. When the team is playing incredibly poorly and losing more games than they win, what exactly do you expect him to be writing about?
As far as Chip learning from his mistakes, it would be nice to see some evidence of him doing so. I can’t think of any, to be honest.
EDIT: Oh and sorry about being a pedant, but Einstein was pretty sure he didn’t say that.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. You see honest evaluations, I see a shock jock agenda. BTW, he seemed to be a much different writer back in his Bleeding Green Nation days. I enjoyed his work back then.
I always assumed that was from Einstein, I even Googled it before I posted to confirm.
There’s a possibility you could convince me if you gave examples. Even just one article would help, because I’ve seen this belief repeatedly and genuinely don’t understand it.
Perhaps you liked him the BGN days because the team didn’t generally have a losing record?
The issue, of course, is that he doesn’t have any examples.
Jimmy’s not ESP.
From his byline on Philly.com:
“Jimmy Kempski is the Eagles Writer for PhillyVoice.com. He has been journalizin’ about the Philadelphia Eagles for four years, formerly with Philly.com and the Allentown Morning Call. He covers the Eagles year-round providing analysis and breaking news, as well as drawing stick figures and interacting with his fan base on Twitter.”
Take out the politics, he is the Donald Trump of “journalizm”. He seems most intent on building his brand than journalistic integrity.
I’ll add that BGN used to be an excellent website with authors (an guest authors like Tommy) who contributed in depth analysis on scheme, salary cap (when it was much more critical to the league), scouting, and much more. It was literally my first read of the morning for several years. Now it’s just about clickbait and regurgitating “reports” based on somebody’s Tweet of an opinion or inflammatory comment regarding the team, coach, or player.
BTW, I don’t want to read positive puff pieces, just real analysis or opinion not based on an agenda of getting page reads. I enjoy reading the analysis on why something is not working (i.e., play call, scheme, matchup, etc.). Having an article ripping a coach and his “culture” not working, or playing Monday Morning QB on all the things a team, coach, or player should have done different, and generally coming across as a know-it-all does nothing for me.
I honestly don’t get your point here. A blurb, written by some unknown person, makes him Donald Trump? Please explain.
I think Lurie has to stick with Chip for at least one more year. Bringing in a new regime (HC, GM, asst coaches) after this season would be a huge and ugly transition. I do not see 14 years like Reid, but Reid was one of the best Eagles coaches of all time and had an unprecedented run of excellence here that Chip has not even sniffed yet.
Chip still represents our best chance to turn this around in the immediate term IMO, but Lurie should work with Chip on bringing in more experienced heads at the GM advisor level to help Chip and Maynowitz. They have clearly shown a lack of expertise in strategic planning, cap management, talent valuation and roster construction. Those cannot continue if we expect the turnaround to happen.
Chip will also need to re-evaluate his offensive and defensive schemes, coaches and figure out the root causes for what has happened since we stood at 9-3 last season. Barnwell states that is an arbitrary grouping of 15 games, but it is the most recent 15 games and thus the most valid IMO since they were played with Chip’s roster. The previous 15 games still included many of Reid’s players who made a lot of big plays to help us win.
Barnwell also states Chip should be lauded for winning with the five mediocre QB he has had during his tenure. The problem with that analysis is that Chip CHOSE three of the five. 60% of the mediocre QB are on Chip as a talent evaluator so there is no way to absolve him of their struggles.
Chip should definitely be on the clock; another season like this one and he’ll most likely be gone as even Lurie cannot stand by and watch the train wreck. It will be fascinating to see what happens.
Building something strong takes time. I believe that Lurie knows this, and that his plan has been to give Chip a certain amount of time to show what he can build. Would Lurie have expected great results from Chip’s transition to a 3-4 defense in year one? (no) Was Lurie excited to see Chip’s ability to squeeze points out of a team lacking an elite QB? (yes)
Some folks like to pan draft picks half way into their rookie season, other folks keep telling people that you can’t know how good a draft class is until they’ve played for about three years.
As fans, we’re not required to be patient, but I think smart fans are patient and I’m glad we have a patient owner in Lurie. Lurie has to know what the benchmarks are, and has to talk things over with Chip to make sure they are being hit.
Reid was the best Eagles coach of all time.
and McNabb the best QB, that’s turrible.
McNabb went 30td and 10INts in 2004 and led the team to the SUper Bowl. If you would have rather had Ricky Williams….well you probably did want Ricky WIlliams
People tend to forget how good McNabb really was over a long stretch of time because of how things ended. Its recency bias. If you look at his production, McNabb really had a borderline HOF career, and he did things that very few other QB have ever done and was among the very best of a generation of QBs. He threw twice as many TDs as INTs, and he had the lowest interception percentage of the 2000s at 2.05%. In that decade, McNabb ranks 3rd in completions and yards behind Peyton Manning and Brett Favre, and 3rd in TD/INT differential behond only Manning and Brady. McNabb was also one of the greatest running QBs of his generation. Fran Tarkenton is the only QB with more passing yards and more rushing yards than McNabb. He’s one of the very best dual-threat QBs in history. And he did all of this without great receivers – outside of one year with T.O and two years with Desean, which were his three best years as a passer. Among the top 50 passers of all time, he is the only QB whose leading receiver was a running back (Westbrook) and the only one whose leading receiver never actually led the team in receiving yards. So lets all just agree on this one thing: McNabb was one of the best to ever play the position; In the 2000’s only Manning, Favre and Brady were definitely better. There.
“Barnwell also states Chip should be lauded for winning with the five mediocre QB he has had during his tenure. The problem with that analysis is that Chip CHOSE three of the five. 60% of the mediocre QB are on Chip as a talent evaluator so there is no way to absolve him of their struggles.”
You can applaud him if those QBs were the best available to him. There really aren’t many other names that were open and available to him, which is why he took a flyer on Bradford (he could have very well just rolled with Foles, knowing that he was not the answer but Kelly showed that he knows you need a star QB and he took a shot on a QB with the potential to be one). People are acting like he decided not to pick up Tom Brady because Bradford was his guy.
Disagree, we should not applaud him since they failed as QB here in Chip’s system. Foles is the only one who did anything of special note under Chip and that lasted one season, Barkley was a total washout as a 4th rd pick, Sanchez remains the mediocre turnover machine he was in NY and Bradford has been an average turnover machine.
You’re setting up an impossible standard. The best an NFL GM can do is get the best players available, which often means taking some shots that don’t pan out when you don’t have a solid starter. You cannot realistically fault a GM or coach for not turning Nick Foles into a real starter in this league. The best you can do as a coach is to scheme the offense so that Nick Foles has a chance to succeed before he gets figured out, which is what Chip Kelly did. Sanchez wasn’t brought in to be a starter, he’s one of the more talented backups in the league. Case Keenum isn’t a very good QB either, but of course he’s a backup so who would expect him to be? No one. Barkley was a 4th round pick, so it’s not a huge surprise that he’s not a starter in this league. Again, before his injury, he was projected as a first round talent so as a 4th round pick, maybe you get a decent backup and maybe you strike gold. In this case, it did not pan out. That doesn’t mean that Kelly didn’t evaluate him properly unless he was looking for anything more than a cheap backup who might have some developmental potential.
You don’t know how Chip evaluated the talent, you’re assuming he expected or should have been able to find a true NFL starter. The only one that’s on him is Bradford. Sanchez was brought in to be a backup, so the argument is a non-starter, he’s exactly what Chip said he was (properly evaluated). He let Foles go because he wasn’t a starter and now he’s not starting so again, Chip was right (properly evaluated). He signed Vick to a short deal, so I guess you could put that on him if you force it, but the thinking at the time appeared to be that at worst, Vick was a least a decent backup (properly evaluated).
I don’t see where Kelly didn’t properly evaluate the talent available to him, it’s not like he came out and suggested that any QB he signed was the next Tom Brady or gave u gobs of money or draft picks for a guy that turned out to be a bum. Without someone clearly better available to him, what we he supposed to do, sign guys he couldn’t sign, draft guys he couldn’t draft or just cut all of the quarterbacks he did have and run the Triple Option because he evaluated the QB talent he had and none of them were franchise quarterbacks? You have to sign somebody, I don’t see who he didn’t sign who was clearly at the time an upgrade and was available for him to sign.
But I mean, you enjoy the impossible standard you’ve set; thankfully it does not exist in organized or professional football at any level outside of unreasonable fans and parents.
sports radio is the cause for this
Especially in the Philly market. I was born in and live just outside of Pittsburgh and with the exception of that blowhard Cowherd, the sports radio jocks here are far less vicious and preach much more patience than I see with Philly media. Now granted, the Penguins have a nice history with the Stanley Cup and the Steelers have a great history with the Lombardi trophy so maybe that makes a difference, but it shouldn’t. You cannot win by rushing things and making snap decisions every time things don’t go your way…just ask the Cleveland Browns or the New York Jets.
How was Mark Madden? lol
Actually, got him confused with Cowherd for a moment…Madden is the asshat I meant. Cowherd is a blowhard too I guess.
haha, im from the philly area…but i remember him referring to Hines Ward as “Wines Hard” The only thing i remember about Ward was that he was a player i wished the Eagles had…..did Ward have a reputation of a whiny player or bad teammate that i missed out on? it seemed to me like he was a leader
It looked like Madden was trying to create something that wasn’t there because that’s what sports radio guys do
Madden was on the same station that locally carried Howard Stern, so I think he was in that vein of trying to start controversy for ratings. Ward was highly respected locally and I don’t recall a time when he was not a fan favorite. All accounts says he played hard (defensive backs sometimes said he played too hard lol). The major complaints I recall seeing about Ward came about due to his rather enthusiastic blocking. I think Chip Kelly would have loved him and I’m sure Eagles fans would have. Honestly, there’s not a ton of difference between the two fan bases and the teams have drawn on some similar things; the biggest difference is that the Steelers’ ownership are a bunch of hypocritical dirt-bags that shit on the city whereas Lurie is by most accounts, pretty solid. I wouldn’t even be an Eagles fan if it weren’t for the Rooneys in Pittsburgh (and well, Chip Kelly helped that along quite a bit since I’ve been a fan of his since his OC days).
Let’s be clear: Chip Kelly has not gone above .500 with Vick, Sanchez or Bradford taking snaps under center.
He went 2-4 with Vick, and he’s gone 4-5 with Bradford and 4-6 with Sanchez.
The Eagles are 10-19 with the QBs Chip Kelly has signed or traded for during his time in Philly.
Not sure what you’re saying. Vick was here too when Kelly arrived. Sanchez was brought in last year to be the backup to Foles, he only started last year when Foles got injured. Are you inferring that if he kept Foles his record would be considerably better this year? Are you saying that he should have drafted somebody instead of trading for Bradford?
Vick was re-signed after Kelly was made HC.
So was Sanchez.
Looking at it from another perspective – we may very well be in position to draft a QB in the top 10 of the 2016 draft. Kelly’s moves @ QB have been:
* Re-signing Michael Vick
* Drafting Matt Barkley
* Signing Mark Sanchez
* Re-signing Mark Sanchez
* Trading Nick Foles and a 2nd Rd pick for Sam Bradford (both were on the last year of their rookie deals, with a vast difference in salaries)
* Signing Tim Tebow
* Signing Thad Lewis
(feel free to add any others)
Based on these moves, how comfortable are you having Chip Kelly make this decision?
If a guy I like is who Chip takes; I’m very comfortable.
If a guy I hate is who Chip takes; I’m very uncomfortable.
Going in, knowing what you have seen, what is your level of comfort with his ability to make the decision? I didn’t mean to ask after the fact… I meant going in.
Sorry for the confusion.
Not your fault, I realized you were asking it that way. I was just looking at it in a way that I don’t trust anybody in of themselves, rather I only like or hate moves at the time based on my own opinions.
So I don’t think I can answer your question based on how you asked it.
Vick was a free agent when Kelly arrived.
Interesting analysis on FO. They break down 3rd down success rates for all the QBs. Nick Foles is the worst performer, SB is the 2nd worst performer. What interests me is how this breaks down. You can see that Nick Foles outplays SB on 3rd and short and 3rd and medium. TWICE as many yards/pass! However, he has a miserable negative DVOA for 3rd and long, due to interceptions. Essentially, Foles moves the ball better, Sam throws less interceptions on long passes (probably because he doesn’t attempt long passes).
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/quick-reads/2015/week-12-quick-reads
The Reid teams were no where near as bad as the 1 playoff win stat makes it sound.
2008 NFC Championship Game … hey almost went to the Super Bowl in 2008.
2009 McNabb dances and plays guitar to lose to Cowboys in playoffs
2010 if the racist Riley Cooper breaks up Vicks’ pass in the endzone they would have won the Super Bowl.
2011 Vick just turned the ball over ALWAYS but the team was still okay.
2012 Reid’s son died
That’s a hell of a lot better than saying they won 1 playoff game in the last 6 years.
what a bunch of sorry excuses
Why don’t you post on the Chiefs message board, Mr. ‘pathetic’?
Unless there is more going on behind the scenes that we’re not hearing about, I can’t see Lurie firing Chip this year, if for no other reason than the terrible precedent it would set. Any new coach coming in will think that unless they win a SB then it only takes one year of mistakes and they’re gone. And injuries would apparently be no excuse, because it’s not like this year’s team have been lucky in that regard.
They are horrible. This team is pathetic. Would you want to have him coach your team that you sunk a billion dollars into and put this crap on the field. This is pathetic. Teams just steam roll the eagles right now.
Not sure I agree here. Obviously this all depends on how the rest of the season goes, but let’s say they end up at 5-11. The precedent that would be set is taking a 10 win team and then trading your star RB, cutting a quality OG, trading a starting QB, letting your #1 WR walk, and then missing on the majority of players you bring in to replace them, directly or indirectly, and ultimately end up close to the bottom of the league, THEN you can get fired. IMHO, if Chip gets fired, having a bad season is certainly part of it, but the biggest reason would be because Chip took huge risks in letting quality/contributing players go and didn’t get quality back in return. What significant move has Chip made as GM that we should be excited about right now moving forward into next season. THAT’S the concern, not that we had “one bad year.”
I think you overstate the quality of the players he’s let go. Herremans, Cole, Nick and Mathis are all benched or on rotation and all were expensive. Mathis wanted to be the highest paid guard in the league and is splitting reps w/ a rookie.
Mccoy has been decent but injured and less effective than Williams who is a rookie. Maclin is the only one who is above replacement level.
I hear what you are saying but I think that analysis is 1, missing the point and 2, faulty logic. In terms of 1, you can absolutely make logical arguments for letting players who contributed the year before leave. What you can’t argue however is the need to finding ways to SUCCESFULLY replace them, whether that means replacing a WR with another WR or replacing that WR’s production with another guy or guys who can fill in that production. I disagreed with many of the moves thay Chip made this offseason, but they weren’t illogical moves. They did have calculated risks and rewards. What failed for Chip however is that so few of the calculated rewards actually hit. The Bradford deal was a bust. Maxwell is overpaid. Kiko has done nothing of note. Murray has been bad and overpaid. Our oline has not held up. You can try to defend those moves by arguing there was some logic to them (although many argued the logic) at the time, but that’s not how a good GM is assessed. All GMs in the NFL use logic in making their roster decisions. You have to set the bar higher and measure the actual success of those moves. Chip has been woefully unsuccessful as GM. Lurie will have to decide if he trusts Chip the GM enough to not repeat the same level of failures going into next season and then hurting the team even more.
As to the second point, you use what those players have done on their new teams to assess whether the moves made sense. While I agree this is the easiest way to analyze things, it is also an inadequate way. Take Mathis for example. He was a journeymen before coming to the eagles. He was basically an afterthought FA signing. Yet, he was the guy that was the most valuable signing that offseason. That is largely because he was put in a system that fit his skillset with coaches that knew how to get him to play well. The fact that he (and the others you mentioned) have played poorly for their new teams is not proof they would have played poorly here. In fact, we have the benefit of knowing that they DID play well here (I don’t really count Herrmann because he was clearly declining), so there is some added confidence that they could have had better seasons here. So while Mathis, McCoy, Foles have not had great seasons, we don’t really know if they would have played better here or not. But to bring this back to point 1, it’s not as if our oline, Murray, or Bradford have done anything to make us confident that those guy’s wouldn’t have at least helped if they were still here.
I partly agree with you; obviously Chip has made some risky moves that have mostly backfired badly, most especially the OL.
But then if Lurie was ok with handing Chip full control, is one bad or really bad year where you draw the line? Surely handing a relatively new HC the GM reins probably comes with a grace period of some sort? And 5-11 is terrible by our standards but not by the standards of the league this year, just very bad.
I’m excited about Kiko. I know with JM, CK wasn’t officially the GM, but I’m still excited about him. Success breeds success – which the opposite is true. IF Mac was here, I think JM would be better. We can’t do “what if’s” with Mac so I’ll give JM another year to learn.
….
I’m also excited about Hicks. Does LJ count as a CK GM move?
Since I don’t think there is any chance of lurie firing chip after 1 down year, I have to hope that he learn important lessons from this face plant.
..
Curious to see how different his offseason approach will be this year…
.
If this has taught chip NOTHING, then we Probably see Chip continue his past mistakes and End up Signing PeYTON Manning and Victor Cruz smh
1 down year? Have you seen how bad this team is playing? He gets fired. There is no way you can let this continue. It’s pathetic.
Barking up the wrong tree kid, poof dissapear…
its not one bad year. he is fired … poof how can you be that dumb?
still one year. it’s just math, dawg
yep. one.
I’ll take that bet too….
Agree
Now the questions get interesting. Since CK isn’t going anywhere(sorry to point out the obvious and/or ruin the end of the book) — what will CK do in the off season? Are their any headache players like Mathis that CK has to deal with where contracts come into play? Will CK approach the draft the same? Will he target linemen in FA and defense(CB’s) in the draft? Will he draft another WR? That’s without asking the biggest question — who’s the QB next year? Hate to say it, but the off season is by far more interesting than the season….
did he deny the meeting? I saw that he laughed and said he was in New Hampshire when the question was if he met with USC in Philly. That was some lawyerly dancing around the details
He flatly denied it, and for what it’s worth, USC completely denied it. These beat reporters can not be trusted and I encourage everyone to unfollow them on twitter and to stop visiting their sites.
they get away with saying literally anything. there’s no consequence for being wrong
Yes. Completely and categorically.
ok, cool. I had only seen summaries, and i laughed as I figured that it was Chip just giving shit to the reporters again, but couldnt be certain.
Not that I really think there are a ton of legs to this story, but in reality, what else was he going to do? If there was even a hint of interest from Chip about leaving for USC, that would have created HUGE problems in terms of credibility to his players and trust from his players. I don’t this this story is a big deal and I don’t really worry about there being any truth to it, but Chip really had no choice but to completely deny the story regardless of whether it occurred or not.
Iskar36:
If you’re still reading . . .
Your comments today have been fantastic.
100 percent agree with what you’ve been saying.
They’re level-headed, fair, thoughtful, and thorough.
Really enjoyed them.
Thanks!
I agree completely, but I think this comment should be directed one level up. Of course he will deny it, so why are readers concerned with his response. Or, one step further, why is he being asked?
Exactly…why chase a stupid rumor that Chip met with a USC rep in Philly on Friday when you could fact check that in 2 seconds and realize Chip was not in Philly on Friday….the local media continues to miss the point and bark up empty trees.
The questions should all be focused on what he is going to do to fix this football team. That is the issue.
questions about fixing a football team is way too much to ask and way too boring for these guys…..they need job rumors and plenty of them. The media isn’t about a solution just the shitstorm beforehand
Chip Kelly the wise has no abandoned reason for madness (unlike our buddy Kempski). Why did he come to Philly? (on Andy’s recommendation and for a shot at one of the most secure head coaching gigs in the NFL) Why would Chip (a smart guy) give up such a good gig? (he wouldn’t) Why would Chip give up a good gig for a gig he hates (talking with boosters)? (he wouldn’t) Why would he give up a good paying chance to run on of the hardest football jobs on earth to go back to college when he knows for certain he can easily get another college gig if he ever does get fired? (he won’t)
Put simply, there is no fire. And that isn’t smoke, it’s steam.
I bet we win against NE this week just to make things even more confusing lol, no Gronk = a punchers chance… cause why not? after being outscored by 50+ in the last 2 games…. this team has been so jekyl&hyde since kelly got here.
I’m willing to take that bet…
damn…. i really need to bet more with real money lol.
I would have lost the house on that one. It’s why I don’t gamble…lol
I have to wonder if the Titans come sniffing around for Chip and offer us some compensation if that just wont be the best thing for everyone involved.
How about that second rounder that Chip pissed away. I would gladly take that and get this guy outta here!
Chip the GM trades Chip the HC for Mariotta. Also signs Dion Jordannnzzzz.
It’s Lurie’s call but the players can force his hand. If it’s clear they’re not buying what Chip’s selling (and it’s looking more and more that way each week), Lurie has no choice but to cut bait and fish elsewhere. And that assumes Chip’s telling the truth about leaving on his own if the next five weeks are anywhere near as bad as the past three. I’m not betting on it.
when did he say he would leave? you make that up?
Re: The Franchise QB Excuse
The chant of “Kelly lacks a franchise QB” has grown louder as the Eagles’ record has grown worse.
But if Lurie’s gonna give Kelly time to find his “franchise QB,” then — as I’ve written before — give Kelly a life-time contract.
Selecting at the top of the draft is no guarantee.
Drafting a QB every year for developmental purposes is no guarantee.
Trading for another team’s disappointment or developmental project is no guarantee.
Rather, getting a so-called “franchise QB” seems to involve lots of luck — coupled to the options just listed.
________________
So, it seems, the question becomes:
How long should Kelly have to find his guy at QB?
And should Kelly be the person making that decision?
(The answer to the second question is far easier than the first.)
________________
I’m not arguing that Kelly should be fired.
But the “Franchise QB” argument — as expressed in Philadelphia of late — is the very same excuse that about 20 unsuccessful coaches have every year.
Like the “Injuries Killed Us” excuse . . . most of the teams have a spate of them every season. (And the most talented team with the fewest injuries has the best chance to win the SB.)
________________
We don’t know what Lurie’s yardstick is. He’s never said.
I assume it includes clear evidence of progress from season to season . . . however Lurie may measure “progress.”
But — as I’ve written before — Kelly may have warned Lurie that 2015 could involve a step back.
Not because Kelly told Lurie he’s just a 3rd-year guy in the NFL and he’s still growing and learning.
Hell, in Dallas, Jimmy Johnson went from 1-15 to 7-9 to 10-6 to 12-4 and a SB win.
So I don’t see Kelly or Lurie thinking that getting worse is a sign of the coach’s progress . . .
But Kelly may have warned Lurie that 2015 could be a step-back season because the roster has holes and finding “Kelly guys” will take a couple more years.
(I don’t believe that. I suspect Kelly said just the opposite after 2014 —
telling Lurie that not being the GM held back the team’s progress and, with personnel power, the Eagles would challenge for a SB in 2015. But who knows.)
________________
I’m not advocating — by implication or otherwise — for Kelly’s departure.
As I wrote after the Tampa Bay game . . . the conversation about Kelly’s future depends on the full 16-game schedule.
Sounds like your advocating the Cleveland Brown’s approach to coaches. If at first you don’t succeed, fire, fire again.
I would agree with your assessment if he drafted a QB early who failed. He instead tried to see if Foles/Sanchez/Bradford could be the answer.
I wrote twice in my post that I’m NOT advocating Kelly’s firing.
…until after the final 5 games are played.
Also, without knowing Lurie’s yardstick, it’s hard to say what should happen here.
My point is simply that using the “franchise QB” card as an excuse is a non-starter, either way.
So what should the benchmark for teams with non-franchise QBs be? 2 years, 3 years?
Would this be a conversation if receivers didn’t drop as many balls in the first 8 weeks?
How about if our kickers hadn’t missed field goals?
You seem so be looking at the teams record and the last 2 games played, coupled with the last 5 games that this season should be make or break.
I am by no means an advocate of firing Chip. In fact, I think it would be the wrong thing to do because then you start all over, and it definitely doesn’t seem like you would have given this system an adequate chance to succeed.
That said, any time you see a team “quit” like it seems they have the past couple of weeks, it has to be concerning.
As Tommy and others have said, this is Chip’s first real experience with “failure” in football. I think he will learn and change from it, but for sure Lurie will need to be convinced, especially if the team continues to play like it has recently.
jimmy j had a bit of luck, and a qb
And made a trade the likes of which we’ll never see again.
RGIII.
Pretty close, and the Julio Jones one as well. But he traded a veteran running back. That was some epic magical wonder stuff.
The Jimmy Johnson comparison is interesting. Two succesful college guys stepping into the NFL and not seeing great results in the beginning of their tenures. The only difference could well be that JJ was not wedded to the culture philosophy. He and Chip ran very different college programs with vastly different cultures.
I will go ahead and argue that JJ was better prepared for the realities of coaching professional men. Many of his guys at Miami were hardly the “good soldiers” that Chip wants on his Eagles roster. Like others, I’m concerned that Chip’s “My way or the highway” is leading us down a losing road. I’d prefer a coach who can work with wild guys and bring them into the fold, rather than exiling them from the team.
“Like others, I’m concerned that Chip’s “My way or the highway” is leading us down a losing road. I’d prefer a coach who can work with wild guys and bring them into the fold, rather than exiling them from the team.”
Like the Dallas Cowboys?
Those wild guys sure are doing great for them.
No, not like the current Cowboys. I meant the way Jimmy J handled his guys at Miami. As much as I might dislike the attitude of guys like DeSean and Shady, they are not in the category of idiots and criminals like Bryant and Hardy.
You might want to read this and then rethink your stance…http://articles.philly.com/1986-12-30/sports/26068056_1_bad-guys-hurricanes-second-best-party-school
Your point is well made. Honestly, I respect your stance. What I’m proposing, though, is to consider the the reality of big time football. In D1 college and in the pros, these young guys playing a violent game are not going to be a bunch of angels or selfless gentlemen. A coach needs to be able to deal with these guys. One could argue these types of men have no place on any roster, but you’d have to clean house at virtually every D1 and NFL team to an extent you could hardly field a team.
I also think it’s helpful to have a nuianced approach towards problematic behaviors. For instance, I can forgive a college player involved in a victimless crime pretty quickly, attributing his behavior to immaturity. I can’t accept a guy like Hardy, though, who shows no understanding or remorse about a serious crime.
I guess I feel behaviors take place along a spectrum and we all need to draw our lines in the sand. I can respect Chip for drawing his line, but it might end up in a bunch of less than stellar seasons.
I think you’re spot on with having a line in the sand. It has to be a nuanced thing and certain dislike-able traits can/should be overlooked… but not too frequently and only when talent warrants. Just like the injury thing: roll the dice once in awhile… do it too many times and you end up with the cripple-corps.
how do you know Chip’s line is also not a spectrum?
It probably is a spectrum. He doesn’t come across as an absolutist.
He kinda does though.
My counterpoint would be that how would these low-character players handle a 3 game losing streak? Would they make the problem worse? Surely your not inferring that by drafting and acquiring low-character players, we wouldn’t be losing in the first place.
BTW, I have no problem with moving the line in the sand, but at the same time, guys like DeSean and Dez are awesome when they put up great stats and the team wins. When challenged with some adversity that’s when their character will kill you.
Remember how TO singlehandedly divided the team with McNabb?
Barrett Brooks on comcast makes this argument all the time and it’s nauseating. He believes that if they had some “bad boys” on the team, then they would be a force to be reckoned with
You’ve got me checkmated with TO. We all remember that mess too well. I had hoped Andy Reid would have a healthy impact on him, maybe be a father-figure he never had. What a disaster.
Crazy times. I remember blowing off work one day to watch a practice at Lehigh. Everyone was singing TO, TO, TO TO TO. Dude had the entire fanbase in the palm of his hand. Little did we know he was a year away from blowing the whole thing up.
Because I honestly think TO has a mental illness, I can remain compassionate towards him. When I thnk of how great the Eagles could have been had he stayed sane, I break down and weep. I wonder if McNabb feels similar.
Tell me if this doesn’t sound about right…
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody’s life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today.
Edit: Check out this website I got for the reference, it’s creepy how spot on it it when you read the whole page.
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
Bullseye. Sort of circles back to our discussion: What does a coach do with an immensely talented but immature (or mentally ill) athlete? Andy Reid rolled the dice on TO and lost.
Jimmy was also a great GM and team builder who understood just how valuable the draft was and that it was mostly a crap shoot so he played the percentages better than anyone at the time. I don’t think Chip makes the Herschel Walker trade in a million years if he was put in the same situation back then.
Yes, lots of teams have the “Franchise QB” argument. Probably because it is an extremely valid point.
I just don’t see the point of turning everything over when the next guy is just as screwed.
—
As much as we hated some of the GM moves by Kelly, despite our results, they don’t seem too bad. Nick Foles is dreadful. Evan Mathis is hurt and declining. Shady has been hurt for most the year. Desean doesn’t play and continues to show that he isn’t very committed to the game anymore. Last I heard about Todd Father he was doing terribly.
We always preach that you need to stick to the board, and unfortunately that didn’t lasso any OL. Then there have been a bunch of injuries and decline from a player you would of never expected (Kelce). Demarco and Sam didn’t get a full off-season to integrate.
As much as I hated the off-season moves, it feels like they may have been right and the cards just didn’t favor us this year. Maybe I am just in denial, even though I have never been some ardent Chip guy.
I just feel like the highest chance of coming out of the dull-drums the quickest is to keep Chip. Am I confident in that? Nope.
I think Kelly already has his guy in Sam Bradford, and I think the two of them will be given time to develop this thing called football. In the mean time, we need a youth movement on the oline, cast off dead weight at WR, and add at least one talented guy to the defense.
Oh and, this season isn’t over yet.
His Bradford is his guy he is sunk.
yeah, but i can see how doubling down on bradford, talking up bradford to lurie can help keep his job. “we just need more time to grow together… etc..” if Kelly tells Lurie bradford sucks, and who knows where we get a QB, then a lot easier for lurie to let him walk.
doesn’t the JJ comparison enforce the “needs a QB” idea?
Troy Aikman?
I don’t like the “Franchise QB excuse” (henceforth known as FQBE), either. FQBE didn’t force the offense to execute a play every three seconds, Kelce to mishandle numerous snaps, Murray to run sweeps, Fletcher/Rowe/Maxwell to get torched, numerous injured players to get collected, numerous good players to get dropped. It is possible to get competent offensive play without a great QB. It is possible to modify the game plan if you have a bad offense which is torpedoing the team, game by game. Marty Shottenheimer probably would have had 3-4 more wins with this roster.
This is a tough situation. Unfortunately for us, unless we find a QB ranging from solid to stud, I don’t think it matters who the coach is.
Haven’t felt the way I do now about QB since the Detmer show.
I guess I don’t understand how someone can argue the team has quit just because they suck.
if they had quit wouldn’t that mean they are good just not playing hard?
it seems more like the defense sucks the last couple games, not that they quit.
and the back up QB is worse this year then last, he didn’t quit. he’s not that great that’s all. doesn’t make sense to me.
are we saying they are good just not playing hard?
did rowe quit or get outmatched by a great WR and a good qb?
the lions don’t suck they were 11-5 last year. they started bad this year but were on a 3 game win streak before they killed us.
now did Billy D quit? maybe.
On offense I agree with you. The O-Line has pretty much sucked all year, Cooper/Austin have sucked all year, and Sanchez has sucked his whole life.
The defense, though, that’s a different story. They have shown an ability to stop the run and create turnovers all year. Yet they have done neither the past two weeks, surrendering 391 yards rushing and getting one TO, while also giving up 10 TD passes. Until Carroll got hurt against Detroit, they were playing with starters across the board.
So I think you could say the defense quit, and maybe it’s a bit of “why bother since the offense isn’t any good?” but that’s still quitting.
injuries to inside linebackers are killing the D
they had a bad game. players don’t quit. they can be demoralized and beaten down but if they quit its them quitting on themselves not on the head coach. and they then need to be axed. football aint easy and quitters never win.
2 bad games in a row. I said the same thing as you after TB, but I have to be honest, I’m starting to wonder after the Detroit game.
What about the comments by Barwin and Jenkins this week about the defense and the play-calling or the leadership? They didn’t come out and say they have serious doubt about David but you don’t have to imply that much to see that is what they were stating.
Davis is gone after this season regardless now of what happens with Kelly. I’m convinced of that unless this defense has some kind of miraculous turnaround.
I agree with them we need a better defensive coach absolutely.
Kempski’s argument is much more kneejerk than compelling.
He’s not even worth reading anymore.
I’ll have to agree. His cynical writing has become rather annoying than what used to be funny.
He’s gone off the deep end. It’s one thing to be critical. But he comes across like Chip Kelly bullied him in middle school and this is his way of exacting revenge.
Jimmy lost a lot of his edge when he left the Beast. Part of the glory of his satire was that it was aimed at four teams.
MS Paint was the sugar to his bitter medicines. now it’s just bitter
was he ever worth reading?
he seems to be more of a clickbait writer than actual journalist
i agree with everyone here, i have never liked the guy ever since i first read him and then saw him. Just get a bad vibe from him, he doesn’t seem genuine at all.
I thought he did a good job back in the Bloggingthebeast days.,
But then “he got too big for his britches, he got a few little bitches, he thinks he is Hugh Heff, but he is just ridiculuos”,..
..
amazing how someone I liked so much, became full blown Blowhard…
..
It has been at least a year since I read any article he wrote, I try to avoid seeing what nonsense he is spewing these days….shame, he used to be solid, but has become completely worthless
I’m apparently in the minority as I disagree with you guys. I like Kempski. His 10 Awards are funny and right-on. I also think he’s a pretty reasonable writer. In this case, regarding Chip’s future, he has gone out on a limb. That’s a hard thing for a writer to do as it could come back to haunt him. The easy way would have been to shuck and jive more, make his point and include a lot of caveats. I’m down with ‘Bama.
You’re not in the minority; lots of people like him, that’s how he got the job. It is weird to me how people are singling him out as if it’s his fault that the Eagles suck. That being said, I do not enjoy his Eagles stuff that much and stopped following him once his Beast column finished.
The press conferences make the reporters look like total idiots, spoiled brats.
I think chip needs to just coach his way and quit trying to prove the stereotypes against him wrong (i.e) don’t need mobile qb or gimmicks
“Now I’m reading those articles and understanding some of their logic. This is just crazy.” — Why in the world, would you read a piece from people and think there’s any substance to it? AND enough substance to change your mind? Understanding THEIR logic? oh bother. Women and children waiver.
…..
The very last thing I’m going to do is read an article, that holds no merit at all, and let that sway my decision. Might as well as go see a fortune teller.
….
CK fan and supporter no matter if the team is sucking right now. Writers aren’t going to change my opinion…
You may remember the famous study based on the apocalyptic prophecy of a flying saucer religion. When the apocalypse did not occur, instead of realizing the religion was BS, the group doubled down and began spreading their beliefs even more fervently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
Is this occurring with a subset of Eagles fandom? They had bought into Chip’s moves and philosophy so deeply, that even now they can’t acknowledge that they have failed. The team has given up 90 points in two games to two bad teams, something that has not happened in the nearly 100 years of the NFL. The unusual and often bizarre policies and personnel moves have led to a half season of boring mediocrity followed by two games of unprecedented failure. Yet some feel a need to attack the columnists, such as Jimmy Kempski, who correctly pointed out the flaws in Chip’s approach, even though they were _correct_. What rational explanation could exist for calling out the people who got it right? Is being accurate not valuable, even if unpleasant? Are we part of a flying saucer cult?
Perpetuated by the RELENTLESSLY STUPID Philly “media”.
“And that my liege is how we know the earth to be banana shaped.”
how do you know absolutely that one side is right? that must be a great feeling.
we’re talking about whether or not to fire Chip. The factors and permutations seem innumerable. He’s made a ton of moves, there have been outside factors (people playing up or down, injuries, whatever), you don’t have ANY idea who would be hired next. You are assigning variables to future events (Chip won’t change, won’t figure anything out). But you have it all figured out, like the answer is “7”. Fire Chip, move along, we are all totally right, everyone else is stupid.
I don’t know whether Chip will work out so that’s not the basis of my point. My point is we all don’t really know, or we know with something a lot lower than certainty.
thanks for saying it better than i could. it’s like some people look at a huge complex issue and grasp for an easy answer. it would be great if it were as easy as “chip sucks” but the truth is more like “chip has sucked at some things and done well at other things and there are very real unintended consequences that will come from whatever action comes next”
Yes, and that would be true for almost every NFL head coach. Almost all of them were probably great at least at one thing. Eventually they rise to their level of incompetence. Or they get bad luck.
Chip is good at some things and maybe not as good at others. However, the results this year have been awful and a clear train of evidence that they are due to a succession of bad decisions exists. Reasonable minds can disagree about this. Some arguments and attacks are not reasonable.
What we DO know, is that things aint good!
You are projecting big time.
i remember the countless times in human history when someone thought there was a simple answer to a complex question.
Kempski pointed out the flaws, yet picked them to win the division….guy likes to hedge his bets thats for sure
That cult is hilarious.
I guess I think the earth is flat because I have been on the fence about Kelly since we hired him and remain there now. I must really be bonkers in thinking that the franchise will be set back even further if we change coaches this off-season because the next guy is going to fail the same as Chip with no QB.
Chip is a unique coach with a unique style. I think his potential is probably higher than the next random coach hiring. He is the type of guy that if he puts it together he is going to dominate. Mediocrity is not something we will have to deal with.
Fire Chip, don’t fire Chip. Either way, I think the biggest likelihood is that we are boned.
Fence is the best place to be in these times. I never said to fire Chip, just offering an observation. I would give him another year, but I don’t expect much personally.
lol, you defend Jimmy Bama as part of your point. Next you’ll be telling us how Steven A. Smith was right too.
Let’s slow down with that Steven A Smith comment. LOL.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEduP9GyD62NpZVJK/giphy.gif
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4d8bc215958a8f10f03c16f385ae34609d5da9bdb40650e6bd81404c305eeb71.jpg
I’m with you on this. The trajectory of this team is the opposite of what you expect or want to see after hiring a new coach. And it got bad FAST. One might argue that Chip went to the playoffs with the same players AR went 4-12 with. Right. And that’s why AR got fired. But as Kelly has moved on from Reid’s guys and brought in his own, the team has gotten progressively worse.
And these last three weeks haven’t just been a couple of bad games – they’ve been astonishingly awful. What we’ve seen is the culmination of a few things. First, the offense lacks talent. It can be debated whether or not the league has caught up to Chip’s scheme, but it’s apparent that he doesn’t have the right players now — and this is the team that HE assembled. I’m sorry, but you just don’t lose explosive players like Jackson, McCoy, and Maclin and not miss a beat. The offensive line .. he let aging, expensive players walk. That’s fine. But he did nothing to adequately replace them. Look at this offense from 2013 to what it’s become. The o-line play was great that year and it made everything else go. Now it just sputters and gos, with frequent stops in between.
Then there’s the defense…Chip hired a coordinator with a mediocre resume to run the defense. No matter who plays in or coaches the secondary, that unit gets routinely burned. There’s some talent in the front 7, but Graham and Barwin are nice players, neither are elite edge rushers. Cox is a beast and I wish we could see what he’d do in a 1-gap 4-3. Curry is a solid player who’s not fit for the scheme. Ryans got old in a hurry. Kendricks … who knows. For every one play where he flashes, he has three where he misses a tackle or overshoots a gap. Kiko Alonso looks a whole lot like Casey Matthews out there. It appears that Chip over valued what he had on the inside. Jordan Hicks may have been a hidden gem. But there you draft a guy with injury an injury history and lo and behold……..which reminds me … Chip invested a lot in guys with histories of injury and sure enough, they’ve all missed time this year.
Basically, what I’m trying to say is that shit got bad fast with this team and Chip Kelly’s fingerprints are all over it. ChoTime is right .. people, for whatever reason, won’t believe Kelly’s failures. We didn’t just watch two bad games. We watched three years of bad drafting, poor poor pro personnel decisions, and mediocre coaching come to a head.
Not every coach gets it right in their first job. I think Kelly will be a good head coach in this league but it’s really hard for me to trust him to make the decisions to get this thing moving in the right direction.
It is only a few weeks ago that this defense looked better than any defense in the league.
I don’t know who to blame for that. Billy certainly is in the conversation. Just really funny how quickly people forget that this was the best defense we have seen since JJ, only a few weeks ago.
You cite my second favorite study. The first is the case where three guys who all claimed to be Jesus Christ were placed in the same room together. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/05/jesus_jesus_jesus.html
Nice, I will read and eventually use at IgglesBlitz!
Did you hear about the study where they put Eagles fans together in a room? Regardless of the number, the result was a quarterback controversy.
Your perspective sounds like a resolved endpoint which anybody who’s looking can see is the blink of an eye. Kelly has climbed the coaching ladder because of a strong football acumen, an indisputable record of success, and a reputation for innovation. The last month of slop on the field does not change any of that.
Add to that the clear disadvantage that affects every franchise without an exceptional QB, the leveling policies of the NFL which reward failure and punish success, and the acknowledged risk involved in attempting to go from the middle to the top incurring those policies. I get the impression that many of the Kelly haters expect him to be a motivator who has his guys playing over their heads, and clearly this is not his strength. He’s trying to fill a chessboard with the pieces to capture the queen, and he’s just getting started. 2 reasons I think he should be kept on: 1) The intricacies of his play design and 2) The rapidity with which he gets plays in to the offense. He has already displayed that his scheme is doable, but for a host of reasons – some of which may fall on his player selection – the execution rate is very poor. This is the definition of a work in progress. Don’t get me wrong – I am not offering excuses for pathetic play and prolonged frustration. I just cannot think of a prospective HC would give me more hope of getting the Eagles great.
I wouldn’t fire him, either, just pointing out what appeared an interesting phenomenon among the true believers (by the way The True Believer by Eric Hoffer is an interesting book that deals with somewhat similar behavior). That being said, the last two games have been the most awful results in… I can’t even figure out about how many. 100 seasons * how many games per season? “Since 1920, there have been a total of 14657 NFL games” (2012)
A loss is a loss is a loss.
Negatives:
Replaced Evan Mathis and Todd Herremans with Matt Tobin and Alan Barbre. Replaced Jeremy Maclin and DeSean Jackson with Jordan Matthews, Josh Huff and Nelson Agholor. Replaced LeSean McCoy with an overpaid DeMarco Murray. Drafted Marcus Smith and did not a draft a single offensive lineman in the last 2 drafts. Re-signed Riley Cooper. Predictable offense. Consistent 3-outs(even with with Nick Foles as QB). Hired DC who controls a shaky defensive unit.
Positives:
Made quality free agent signings with Conner Barwin, Malcom Jenkins, Walter Thurmond, Ryan Mathews, Cody Parkey, Donnie Jones and Nolan Carroll. Traded for Darren Sproles. Drafted Benny Logan, Jordan Hicks, Lane Johnson, and Zach Ertz. One of the top offensives in football the last 2 years. Two winning seasons. Top ST unit in 2014.
Uncertain:
Trading Nick Foles along with a 2nd and 4th round pick for Sam Bradford. Drafting Nelson Agholor and Eric Rowe. Signing Byron Maxwell and DeMarco Murray.
Am I missing something?
Playing Miles Austin.
Haha, yes. Who would have thought that a free agent signed to a 1 year dear worth $3 million to be the #5 receiver would cause so much frustration? He’s still living off his 1 great season in 2009.
Wasn’t he dating a Kardashian around that time to? Jeez players really do go to shit after linking up with those losers….good luck James Harden
I have really stayed out of the Miles Austin conversations because I don’t want to defend him, but the hate for him is one of those Phillyisms that is starting to drive me nuts. He is nobody, and unfortunately has out preformed young promising guys. Be upset at Huff, Ags, and J Matt, NOT Austin.
FASTBALLZZZZZZZ
he is the new Casey Matthews
Go get a tissue. He has 13 catches in 12 games. It’s not Miles I am upset with, I remain flabbergasted that he continues to play. I can stomach a bad game or two – but for the life of me I can’t see how/why he continues to be on the field. I don’t hate the player, I hate the game.
Oh thanks for the words of comfort. Always keep a tissue handy. I guess if you don’t hate Austin my post doesn’t apply to you though.
I’d move dumping Herremans and DeSean Jackson to the positive side.
I’d note that it’s significantly more likely to be a bad pick when you draft and OLB in the first round.
Did Chip bring in Donnie Jones?
Yea, Chip signed him in 2013.
I agree that dumping Herremans was a positive, but the guy was a probowler in 2013. We’ve had to endure Matt Tobin for half a season and Chip Kelly did nothing about replacing him during the off season.
I agree with the decision to release Jackson. But our speed threat is Riley Cooper. Seriously wtf.
Overall though, a very complete list.
And yes, the end of the Cooper era can’t come soon enough. ugh.
Remember Tobin was a back up to start the season to Andrew Gardner. Lots of similar small mistakes in OP.
More accurately Howie brought in both of those players…
I can hardly believe Howie pulled the trigger on that pick with statistics slapping him right in the face.
Well he was the GM at the time, and according to Lurie,before the draft, was running that draft. Also there were rumors that the MS2 pick was one of Chip’s primary points of issue when seizing GM duties.
I don’t mean that I think Chip made the pick, but rather I though Howie would have been aware of something like that and made any other pick with that pick. Ideally, trading out…
you would have thought SOMEONE would.
And with their first pick in the 2014 NFL draft the Eagles select “some random interior lineman for depth” Groan… would have been better imo. (trying to avoid the ole hindsight amaze pick)
i think fear of “reaching” is underestimated. so we let someone like bridgewater or carr go in favor of MSII because . . . some writer might give the draft a B- instead of B+? too clever by half
For so long we would scream and cry that the team drafted for need and didn’t stay true to the board. Now we seem to be going the other way. I think it boils down to the draft being more of a lottery.
I say we because I am certainly part of it.
That’s how I see the draft. Get me as many scratch offs as you can.
BPA doesn’t work if we can’t trust our guys to figure out which P is the B
Well look at a guy like Hicks as BPA. I’m not sure if any guards went in that area that would be an improvement for us (though that is a nice place to usually find them). What I do know is that Hicks has looked amazing, but he went to a spot that seemed to have very little need.
So assuming no one ever gets hurt (then of course Gardner is healthy), which strategy is better? Do you want Hicks or some scrubby guard who is fairly marginal in comparison to Hicks?
I think if you BPA long enough you end up with a really good team. We just have not done it for more than 2-3 years. I really don’t know though. I just want my team to win the Superbowlz.
i’d feel more comfortable if we were talking about the marcus pick. i love hicks and it was classic BPA. marcus was SUPPOSED to be the bpa, but he isn’t. so my argument isn’t against BPA (i agree that it’s how the best teams draft). my argument is that you need to be able to trust your evaluators if you want to go BPA. if you take marcus and hicks together, it’s a coin toss that one will become a good player in the NFL.
but i guess my main point is that BPA within moderation is preferable. if bridgewater is #40 on my board and marcus is #33, i might argue for bridgewater on the logic that it’s a more important position
Lets not forget that Foles was coming off a historical season beofore the MS2 draft. So reaffirming my need point… maybe Teddy was 33 and MS2 was 40.
i guess there’s no way to know. hopefully whoever screwed up learned something
I thought at the time the feeling was that MS2 was a reach for a need?
i might be remembering wrong. i thought the FO said he was the best one still on their board.
The best OLB pass rusher, yes. I think they even admitted that they reached for him because there wasn’t much left in the draft.
HELL now that I am thinking about it maybe it made them gun shy to reach for OL this past year.
something screwed something up thats for sure
there is no way Marcus Smith was the pure BPA. Maybe only after you tilt the field by grading into tiers based on….need.
Is hindsight if everyone said so at the time?
No. I just can’t remember who everyone wanted with that pick.
Not a draft guy, but I remember thinking that when Tommy hated the pick, we were in trouble. Love Tommy but he is an optimistic guy for sure, so to hear him be immediately displeased about a pick is disconcerting.
Anybody else.
Yeah I would of hoped so too. Seems like a panic pick.
If those are negatives and positives of the team as a whole since it hired Kelly they would be more accurate and attempting to say what Kelly has done.
To say dumping Todd and Evan were negative seems to be incorrect at this point. Tobin who he replaced Todd with either. The lost Maclin, didn’t let him go. The list of errors goes on.
Trying to put together a comprehensive list would probably be a practice in futility anyway, especially when you are going as finite as specialists.
IMO dumping Washed up Herremans for Andrew Gardner was a GREAT MOVE… Problem is Gardner got hurt too early in the season to prove it was a great move…
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Tobin is a hot pile of garbage, at least they realized how much better Gardner is than Tobin…..
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Need to compare Tobin to Guards sitting on other teams benches to know what type of Caliber backüp Tobin is… “turnstile Tobin”
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Barbre I lke better as a backup, but I don’t know that keeping Mathis would have been much better. Seems like his body has been breaking down the past two years, im not sure he will even get his starting spot in Denver back when he is healthy…
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Plenty to rip chip for. But IMO getting rid of Herremans and Mathis was the right move. A good GM, gets rid of a player right before he drastically declines, not after he has already declined… Chip seems to have got those decisions right, problem is he didn’t adequately replace them.. Actually I like Gardner at RG going forward, but think chip over rated Barbre..
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My Ideal starting OL next year would be:
Rooke RT, Gardner, KElce, Jason Peters at LG, Lane at LT… Assuming JP is open to make the move… So really, I just need them to draft a RT.. Barbre goes back to the bench, and replace Tobin and Dennis Kelly with better backups… no idea if Josh Andrews can continue as Kelce’s backüp, No idea if BUNCHE is ready to move to the active roster
I am starting to feel like we replace JP if we can. I love the dude for what he has done, but his injuries are really screwing with the mojo. At least have the line in a state that the whole thing doesn’t get flipped on its head when one player gets hurt.
Yeah I hate that he seems To be tapping out of games more often than he actually finishes a game, and it’s frustrating to see him monopolize starting reps in practice all week, and then have to play the majority of the game with an ill prepared backüp ..
..
If he wasn’t willing to move to Guard, Id probably agree with cutting him…. But I think his Power can be GREAT Linning up next to a smaller Center in KELCE…. Usually, if JP gets beat these days, it comes from a smaller, speed rusher, like the VON Miller/Vic Beasly types….I wouldn’t be surprised to see him give a team another two good years at Guard, going up against completely different body types, stronger, bulkier DTs, instead of speed guys trying to beat him to the Outside… I would love to see what Lane at LT, next to JP at LG looks like before we allow chip to get rid of a hall of Fame Eagle who wants to retire in Philly, especially since Chip won’t get any value in return for Losing JP..
..
i can see a case for Moving on from JP… But I also find it very hard to believe that we will have 7 or 8 Guards/Tackles that are all better than Jason peters next year… So if it were up to me, I’d hold onto JP for one more year, see if a move to facing Bukier, slower DTs at Guard can rejuvinate him… Figure if he can give us one more solid year out of him. This offseason, And the following years offseason is enough time to have added so much OL talent to where we can reasonably say that we have 7 better OL than Peters..
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I wouldnt be totally against cutting peters, but I NEED to see the Eagles Upgrade Dennis Kelly, Turnstile Tobin, before they go and Replace Peters… Getting two NEW OL in one offseason is doable. More than that, is probably asking a little too much since we have other areas that also need an infusion of Talent… I know Tobin, and Kelly NEED to be replaced before we get to Peters, and that’s assuming Barrett Jones or Josh Andrews can be a quality backüp to KElce.. If those two cant play Center at an acceptable NFL level, than we need to replace 3 OL before we even get to Peters…
…
and if Tobin is going to continue to be horrible, I hope we see what Barrett Jones or Josh Andrews can do at Guard before this years over. ideally, experimenting with them starting while Sanchez is in the game.. Cant experiement with Bradfords protection..
Hey, now that their 4th round draft pick is secure, the Steelers might actually start playing Boykin in the league’s 2nd-worst pass defense!
Remember when trading Boykin was going to be the great mistake that doomed our season?
Sell high! Just a shame we didn’t move more guys at that point in the season.
And F Pittsburgh for not playing Boykin enough snaps to get us their 4th. I feel cheated.
We got a 7th for a guy we were going to cut. Thanks Bruce.
I’d still take him over Biggers, do think Boykin might have made a difference with an INT or a play in a game to cause a difference, and a 7th round pick is liking finding loose change in the couch.
We got a 5 for one year of Boykin. 2013 Boykin was great, 2012 and 2014 Boykin was solid but unspectacular. As far as game changing picks he had 6 in 2013. But in 2012 and 2014 he had 0 and 1 respectively so he’s not a huge ball hawk. Biggers has been fine overall. He’s had a few bad moments but like I said I think it’s really really hard to make a case that it changes much. Put another way he’s been unable to get on the field over Ross Cockrell (who the Bills cut in the first wave of cuts to 75). As I argued at the time of the trade unless it’s 2013 version of Boykin the variance between a solid nickel and a meh nickel is so small that doesn’t make any real difference.
A 7 isn’t much but it’s a lottery ticket we got for Barkley and we were going to cut him no matter what. It’s not franchise changing but it’s an extra shot at a 20% chance you get a role playing contributor, or you can move it to jump a few spots earlier on day 3 to make sure you get a guy you want.
I’d sure rather have him playing than Biggers or Maragos.
I think you’d have a hard time making the case that it’s made any differenec to W-L
Agreed. Just one more feather on the camel’s back.
made the cowboy’s game a lot closer. we’ll see what happens against patriots.
I dunno what is going on there, but I feel like he would of done us some real good in the slot.
In the end, I think Boykin being the thing to ruin our season would have been a far preferable outcome to what is actually happening.
According to his latest tweet Jimmy K. is still not over the fact that the Eagles included a 2nd round pick in the Foles/Bradford trade. Lol, his cynicism is on fire!
Nor should he be.
Yes, but tweeting about a trade that happened months ago in these days when things are not going well for the Eagles comes across like ranting for fun.
Jimmy’s always done a good job of making it fun. Lol
Not so much these days. And his bias against Bradford was obvious from the start.
I don’t actually know what’s wrong with this fella lately?! Did he really think that Bradford would not be rusty after two missed seasons in a row? Give Sammy a break for Chip’s sake. I am sure with another off-season and some weight training under his belt, he’ll be doing much better next year – provided he stays.
And that being said Jimmy K. just tweeted that Sammy is garbage. One man could think Bradford slept with his wife. Lol
just 4 months ago little Jimmy said Bradford would take us to the NFC championship game and he would be comeback player of the year…..now he’s garbage. The guy is like a 10 year old
I said yesterday: I think it’s the lack of sex thereof.
He’s a total clown, and I don’t mean that in the funny ha-ha way. I don’t know if it’s just his schtick or if he’s really like this, but he’s coming across as a real you-know-what lately. The media as a whole are completely intolerable.
My favorite is him trying to call out Matt Barkley in some sort of throwing constest. Dude just let it go.
I was pretty outraged at the time. Hard to forgive, but if Bradford becomes your franchise you are laughing all the way to a ring.
It matters for a team with so many needs to fill. It isn’t unreasonable to assume a 2nd round pick can become a projected starter in Week 1 depending upon how weak that position looks. Eagles have several right now where a good 2nd round pick might be projected to start next year.
So much negativity about Chip the GM, but Chip the coach is starting to worry me more than his GM ability..
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I can name plenty of personnel moves that proved to be a bad idea, I wish I had the time to look into it, wish this team was worth looking into, But a GM decision I would LOVE to know is, How is Allejandro Villanueva doing starting for the steelers at LT compared to How Dennis Kelly performed this yeàr?
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Dennis Kelly has had a few years head start developing at Tackle over Villanueva. if ALejandro Villanueva is already showing signs of growing into a legit starting Caliber Tackle, then Cutting Villanueva will go down as a terrible move by Chip. The fact that we never played him on offense also doesn’t look good for Chips talent evaluations…
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I do think chip deserves credit for getting rid of Herremans and replacing him with andrew Gardner, I still believe that move will pay off for us down the road.
.
mathis body seems to be breaking down the last two years. From the little I saw of him play in Denver, It looks like chip was right about his decline, it looks like Mathis ISNT worth 5.5mil, let alone the raise he wanted.. problem is chip over estimated Allen Barbre who is better suited for a backüp role… The Eagles were high on Barbre, and young player Tobin, and it turns out Andrew Gardner is better than both those chuckleheads..
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yeah when i saw villanueva on that dude’s jersey i thought “please don’t be the DL we tossed . . . “
i think at that point he was too small and clearly a better blocker than rusher. once he got big he went to steelers. nothing you can really control
not sure i agree. there’s an element of projection involved with UDFA, and PIT’s projection was better than ours.
Yeah, look how they projected Brandon Boykin;-)
i’d rather miss on a role-playing DB than on a starting OL! but yeah i see your point
I never agreed with the idea of making him a DL. He had more experience on the offensive side anyway. He didn’t bulk up until the Steelers coaches decided they wanted him to be an OL.
I thought I read that he added something like 100 lbs between last year’s camp and this one. That was done on his own.
At most he gained 20lbs of muscle. 80 lbs of fat on top of that, sheesh. Don’t think that’s too beneficial for an athlete tbh
i love jenkins and i trust his opinion more than Billy D’s: http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/12/1/9829984/malcolm-jenkins-eagles-safety-accountable-team-chip-kelly-coaching-style-bill-davis
but see barwin and graham’s opinions
where
Davis is gone at the end of the year if not sooner if this defense continues to get shredded. You can’t have multiple veterans on the unit basically questioning the coach publicly.
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Someone essentially help to make significantly posts I might state. That is the very first time I frequented your web page and to this point? I surprised with the analysis you made to make this particular post incredible. Fantastic task!
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/12/01/graham-to-chip-i-got-your-back/
that’s good to hear but it doesn’t really negate what jenkins said. he wasn’t dogging the organization so much as raising a concern. ok, several concerns. probably shouldn’t have aired it out but i’m glad he did because it helps me understand why certain players continue to do certain things.
Please ellaborate . Interesting .
just like, why someone could make the same mistake in multiple games, or why there could be misunderstandings between LB and S on a run play. nothing specific
The only way I’d be willing to let Chip go at this point is if Tennessee gives us at least a 1st round pick
two 1s and two 2s. I want the Gruden level deal.
You’d want to lose in the 2017 Super Bowl to Chip Kelly?
ouch, titans do have a defense,
who’s getting us there?
Me too if it was the #1 Titans’ pick this year which be the 1st or 2nd in the draft.
And do what with 1 pick? This doesn’t make sense. You get 1 pick, lose gm/coach/oc/dc/executives etc etc.
….
another words — where’s the win in this? There is no player in the draft that’ll help this team, so why do it?
I guess you missed the point where I said “the only way I’d let him go”. And with two 1st round picks, you can do almost anything you want in the draft or free agency. But yeah, where’s the win in that?
Why is Temple only 22 in the playoff rankings? Did they do something to deserved getting jumped by USC, LSU, and Houston? Really? They should be 19th.
They’d be higher in the rankings if the media thought chip wanted their HC job.
or if they got to play the eagles
that might drop their strength of schedule
Does anyone seriously believe that USC didn’t basically gave Kelly ‘the job is yours if you want it pitch?’
The more interesting rumor is the ‘Kelly to the Titans’ rumor especially if Kelly thinks he can’t win here next year either and wants to try this with the guy he really wanted this year in Philly.
Titans would have the #1 pick in the draft if season ended today. No way in hell the Eagles are getting that for Chip.
just goes to show what getting a high pick and franchise QB can do for you in one year.
drop you from 2 to one.
ouch
I’m not anti Kelly but if they got that kind of crazy unprecedented deal…I would take it and run.
Jon Gruden’s trade netted the Raiders way more tho
Exactly. The Gruden deal would be “par” in trading away Kelly.
Holy crap they did. I stand corrected. For some reason I thought they got a 2nd.
Two 1s, two 2s. That is the required rate of compensation for a head coach trade.
Chip Kelly’s isn’t going to a turnstile organization. In terms of ownership nothing beats philly. Reid got 14 years, 14 years!
Coaches are more about the ownership and organization, players come and go. Mariota could be injured tomorrow, you can’t jump ship for a player.
Chip is staying for 3 more years.
Just watched Lynch play against Memphis and Bowling Green. You can color me impressed! Good pocket presence, very mobile for a guy that’s 6’6-7″, calm and collected, runs and up-tempo offense with screens, accurate on short and intermediate throws with nice touch. Would love to be able to check out Goff and others but for some reason draftbreakdown isn’t working on my computer. In the meantime, I’m on the Lynch boat and would be tickled pink to snag him.
I far prefer Lynch to Goff, but that is because Goff arm strength scares the shit out of me.
How exactly to judge if his arm is “strong enough” is going to be a fun time this spring.
Arm strength might have been wrong word, because guys like Bradford and Sanchez have the arm strength, just the inability to throw deep with any regularity.
Kelly’s system works best when he has a QB that can at least throw deep a few times per game to keep the defense honest.
That deep ball is key. I just hope whoever our QB is next year has enough blocking to be able to wait long enough for somebody to get deep enough for that type of pass.
Eagles need a deep threat to catch those passes
UCLA tape.
So who’s better in your honest and humble opinion?! And who’s worth being picked in the Top 5 next year?
I’m a Goff guy. Like give up our first next year and a 3 this year to make sure you get him level. I like Lynch (done more tape work on Goff so far) but I think your taking a skillset and hoping to turn him into a QB more than taking a QB who has a hell of a skillset.
Goff
Pros:
-Pocket awareness on fleek.
-Mental processing and manipulating the D for days.
-Throw from any angle
-Clean technically
-Good mobility
Cons:
-Air Raid
(I hate “not pro style” complaints, also Lynch plays in a spread)
-QB WINZZZ
(They’ve gone from 1 to 5 to 7 wins though and he’s had comically little talent around him)
-Arm Strength
(this is only real con that has merit to it, but he’s gone from a 170lbs freshman to 215lbs now and hasn’t completely grown into the weight, it will improve, he can already throw 35 yards off a backfoot, and 60 in the air, the accuracy just comes and goes, but it will improve with time and he’s not some noodle arm that people make him out to be)
What about prying away Hundley from the Pack?
I’d be on board but Chip had 4 chances at him and passed. He’s clearly not a fan.
Thanks, bud.
I’m a Goff guy at this point, but I need to see more of Lynch. The only game I saw of Lynch’s was vs. Temple, but I’m sure he’s had better games.
im with team barnwell. he is one of the best writers covering the nfl. the biggest question in my mind is Kelly’s status as GM. personally id like to see howie back in the saddle, but would kelly accept that?
Never.
kempski is terrible: The Sixers have more wins than Marcus Smith has career solo tackles.
He’s just become a miserable git who doesn’t apparently get enough sex these days.
Been such since Desean left. Maybe he can’t get sex without DJacc
Sex is always about hitting the Jaccpot!!!
Thumbs way up for humor. Thumbs way down for language butchering.
Ah, man, more Kempski hate? Guess that leaves me and Mrs. Kempski as the remaining members of his Fan Club.
clickbait hacks have fan clubs?
We’re a small but important bunch. Well, we’re small anyway.
Don’t get me wrong, I used to like Kempski when he wasn’t the click-addict he is now.
maybe marcus smith is terrible
Stephen Jones on Romo: Jones put the quarterback’s recovery time from his recent left collarbone fracture at six to eight weeks, which could have him back for a possible wild-card game or a conference championship game.
I needed that this morning.
If the Cowboys make miraculously the playoffs this year and reach the NFCCCG I will like to die.
It’s hilarious, but I assume we are all bracing ourselves for the Giants’ inevitable run.
Giants have the hardest road. Theyve got Jets, Dolphins, Panthers, Vikings, Birds.
I think you could have left off the Birds….
The Giants only win against Chip was the Matt Barkley game.
yes – the years the Eagles finished with 10 wins…this is not those teams….
Ok but THIS TEAM crushed them earlier this year, despite Sam having a really bad game.
The Eagles had 2 bad outing with their backup QB in the span of 96 hours. They aren’t great but they aren’t suddenly the wrost team in the history of the NFL.
But media prefers the latte narrative.
only the media? You saying the actual play of the Eagles isn’t enough evidence? So what I’m reading, you all are pinning your hopes on 1 win, vs. the Giants in which that game will mean nothing? That’s one glass half full for sure…
this team isn’t the same as it was when they played last time either. They aren’t the worst team in the nfl but I don’t see any team the Eagles would play and we’d call it a “gimme”…
Ok but that’s not at all what I said I simply said the Giants had a hard remainng schedule. Jets game is gonna be a slugfest, Dolphins are in dead cat bounce mode, Vikings and Panhers are both good, and the Eagles are the Eagles.
You stated that we should declare the Giants surefire victors over the Eagles. Which is fucking stupid. Is there a chance the team is completely in the can that game? Sure, but it’s equally likely that the game could have playoff implications for the birds. At present I’d call that game a pick ’em. You’re the one who thinks the Giants are going to crush the suddenly worst team ever birds.
where did I say they are “surefire victors”? I think the game is a coin flip on who’s going to win — but one thing is clear – -the Eagles are not tough and are not in the same category as Miami/Panthers and Bills. I get that nobody wants to call their own kids ugly, but let’s be a little realistic…
….
I just thought it was funny that you listed them as “tough”. “Fucking stupid” might be lumping the Eagles in the same sentence as the only undefeated team in the NFL and calling them tough.
The schedule is CUMULATIVELY tough. They may be slight favorites over the Dolphins but thats it.
no. IF the you’re listing the tough games AND end it with a “pick em” vs. the Eagles – -that’s not a tough game. What makes the schedule tough is the win/lose records of the teams they have remaining. The Eagles have the worst record of all those teams — so by definition — they are not tough and should not be lumped in. You’re a smart guy, I don’t see how you’re lost in this. Eagles are not tough. Period. Get over it that your team stinks.
……
NE had(has) Buff/Denver/Eagles/Houston. I hope NE can pull this off because they are in a tough part of their schedule.
I never said they aren’t bad. But you dismiss them. Why would you look at remaining schedule as a whole and then throw out the Eagles? That doesn’t even make sense. I didn’t go over their schedule from the begining of the year and list only hard games. I simply said the remaining 5 as a group are hard.
Easy boyz!
http://images.halloweencostumes.com/products/6639/1-1/sexy-referee-costume.jpg
Not reading this conversation, but the pic clearly deserves thumbs up.
Well done.
I know, they can argue all they want I just wanted an excuse to post it. She kind of looks like a hotter Ronda Rousey.
Think we need more pics, less chat.
That is rough.
ok, you made me look — Eagles have: Pats/Bills/Cards/Skins/Giants. Boy, that’s not much easier. If there’s 1 game out of that bunch, I’d really love them to beat the Bills.
Yes so once again lets go through this again
WAS: Cowboys (Favorites), Bears (pick em), Bills (pick em), Eagles (pick em), Boys (favorites)
Giants: Jets (pick em), Dophins (pick em), Panthers (dogs), Vikings (dogs), Birds (pick em)
Eagles: Pats (dogs), Cards (dogs), Bills (pick em), WAS (pick em), Giants (pick em)
I said it’s tough and the eagles don’t have a much easier schedule. So what’s your point? What do you want me to admit? Giants have(according to you) 3 pick em’s as do the Eagles. So you want me to say they have the same hard schedule? Ok, let me restate so you can follow. Instead of “boy…” let me say — man, oh man, the Eagles have a tough schedule as well.
WAS has to be the overwhelming favorite, with an outside chance of the Gmen or Birds.
DALLAS is dead. They have WAS x2 and Packers, Bills, and Jets remaining.
best scenario is they miss it by a tie breaker
per roto: we’re very close to the point where we can just fade the Eagles altogether as they appear to closing up shop on the Chip Kelly era …. (they reference Phili Inquirer and Daily news as their source)
The next game is against the Brady-led Patriots, a very good team we’ve never had much success against. We’ve lost our last two games against poor team by several TDs each.
Yet. These Patriots are decimated. They lost their skitterbug WR who would have likely murdered us. They lost their #1 receiver/TE who would have abused one of our hapless CBs in single coverage. Brady’s arm gots to be getting tired carrying them.
If Bradford can pick up where he left off and the rest of the team plays at the best levels they’ve achieved at points this year, is there a chance? What % is there?
Time is the best healer. Forgetting how poorly the Eagles have played on both sides of the ball. Forgetting they still have Beli. Yes, lets have hope Brady’s arm is tiring. LMAO. > 1%
0.0
.001
538 website says 12%. Ouch, that hurts.
DVOA has come out for this week. We went from #13 to #24. Defense dropped from #2 to #11 in the last 2 weeks. That is a huge fall for a system that accounts for every snap all year, and shows partly just how bad last week was. We have declined significantly in all areas, but the largest is in RUN DVOA, oddly, #8 to #26. I have not heard anyone mention that a worsening run game as a major cause of our problems. Is it possible that teams were daring a rusty Sanchez to beat them and selling out against the run? Remember DVOA is a rate stat, so being behind in the games shouldn’t affect it that much.
Also, opponent adjustments are making our earlier games look worse. These last two games were so bad that the guys at FO made special remark of them and are openly asking for explanations from the comments! If you know what happened go to FO and help ’em out!
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2015/week-12-dvoa-ratings
EDIT. Damn, KC has risen to #3. Don’t tell the troll!
Run game is bad b/c JP in and out no cohesion, etc. Had several games where we were running well but that’s over now. We’ll see if better against PATs but i gotta say, doubt it.
Ryan Mathews missing certainly impacted the rate. He is the big play guy. But I think teams are absolutely playing to stop the run more and worried about Sanchez less than they were with Bradford.
On the other side of the ball, our run defense is killing us. Can the difference really be as simple as hitting the jackpot on a rookie ILB?
I think it’s a combination of missing our rookie sensation and a washed-up Mufasa…Paired with the fact that Kiko is still rusty after his injury while Kendricks has been more miss than hit lately.
amazing how good that rookie played…
Something to be grateful though. Let’s hope he can stay healthy in the future!
Several weeks ago, Meco had a great game where had a couple big time plays for which he rightfully got credit. However, when I saw the plays, I wondered if the team was trying to pick on him because they noticed he was slow and he just managed to get through by heroic (unsustainable) plays rather than fundamentals and positioning.
Which reminds me: A comment on the FO article was interesting and said the entire difference between Good Eagles D and Bad Eagles D has been turnovers. That our ability to get TOs was the reason we looked so good, but once that well dried up, we were cooked. If true, that could be good or bad. Sometimes you go through a dry stretch due to bad luck, so perhaps simple regression to the mean will mean much better results going forward.
Re “dry stretch with some bad luck”:
Remember the Bucs game?! I can think of at least two fumbles that didn’t bounce our way and two possible picks (dropped by Jenkins and Barwin) that could have easily gone our way. I am not saying that the Eagles would have won against the Bucs, but the outcome and their D DVOA would have been different.
Anyone who can’t notice the striking difference in the run defense lately (by pretty much any metric, but especially the eye test) is being willfully ignorant. Turnovers helped, especially with the secondary getting torched, but run defense had been a fairly consistent positive beginning early in 2014. The Cowboys (great OL) and Panthers (good team whose OL just out-physicaled the Eagles) are games that you can chalk up to something like small sample or any given sunday issues. But once you see how Tampa and Miami pushed them around, there’s a clear break from the “good” D.
Turnovers would help, but you’re going to get less of them, generally speaking, when the other team can just run the ball down your throat. And I agree with you on ‘Meco. His smarts and drive can overcome his declining physical abilities for spurts, but it’s not sustainable play in/play out, let alone over the course of games. And current Kiko paired with Kendricks is a bad mix, as both are really struggling with their reads. Kiko may be able to return to form at some point, but I think Kendricks needs to be paired with a more instinctive ILB to allow him to be a pure playmaker, or else there are going to be explosive run plays against them; he just doesnt’ have the ability to read plays well at ILB.
From BGN: Eagles-Patriots Game to be Reffed by Bad Officials.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/12/2/9834972/nfl-pete-morelli-crew-eagles-patriots-game-sunday-night-football-colts-steelers-49ers-cardinals-refs
So, you’re saying there’s a chance…
Someone needs to post the Lloyd clip.
yeah there’s a chance they blow a call that gives the patriots the game sure
So, you’re saying there’s a chance (That made me chuckle)
Brandon Graham blocked Kempski on twitter. Lol
Someone should make a change.org petition to remove Jimmy from the internets. This has gone on too long.
Brandon Graham was trending this morning on twitter. Apparently he blocks whoever is critical of him.
kempski should get a week’s worth of click bait out of that
I enjoy reading Jimmy. Think he’s spot on about Kelly.
He’s always been like this. He’s blocked people who have never even @ him. It just got more traction today because one of the radio stations talked about it.
I heard it on the drive to work – apparently people are pissed – this was trending – #BlockedByBrandon
Yea like I said philly twitter has known for a year or two that he’s real quick with the block finger. I don’t really care either. I’m just surprised no one has told him about the mute button.
I could careless who he blocks btw.
please do care less than the amount of care you are caring now.
(couldn’t)
Random thoughts: D3FB do you see any o-lineman, draft eligible for next year, that are more late round picks like 3rd round and on that might peak the Eagles interest and can possibly come in and play immediately. I know big names like Tunsil from OleMiss and imo Elfein from OSU are some big names but I would like to know about some of the other lesser known talents to study and watch on tape.
I believe D3FB is of the opinion that the draft is going to be pretty stacked with OL this upcoming draft (I asked him a similar question). Should be a lot of talent in the middle rounds for us.
That’s always a good thing to hear. Did he happen to give you any middle round talents names? I watch so much college football, so I was hoping to get a couple of guys name to look at while watching.
I didn’t get any specific names, my post was more along the lines of wondering if it is finally time to press the issue of the O-line. By all accounts we had every intention of picking up multiple O-line in the past 2 drafts, just apparently there was a run of O-linemen that emptied the talent-tiers of O-linemen and BPA demanded we not pick O-linemen (both years, every talent tier). D3FB said something along the lines that the middle rounds should be stacked, no excuses this year, we’d best get 3 of them or some such.
i’m no d3FB, but i have had small discussions with him. I too believe this is a …..”thick” draft for OL prospects. A favorite of mine and his is Max Tuerk from USC. He came into this year as probably the best Center in College along with Nick Martin of Notre Dame. Tuerk can play anywhere on the O-line and i think he has a chance to play Tackle because he is a big body. Extremely athletic, but needs to get his weight up, i think he is still hovering just under 300 pounds. He could fall to the middle rounds because he had a leg injury this year and hasn’t played in about 2 months and im not sure when his return is next year. He is most likely to end up as a Center or Guard.
Other guys i would look at is Cody Whitehair, Vadal Alexander,Parker Ehinger, Le’raven Clark,Jason Spriggs, Jerald Hawkins (may not come out) All of these guys aside from Ehinger i think are tackles who probably move to Guard in the NFL. I like Whitehair, Clark and Alexander the best out of the bunch. A lot of people like Spriggs because he is a great athlete for his size, but to me he plays so soft. He looks like a nasty guy, but plays like a puppy. Another guy i like is the guard, although he may have been moved to T is the Arizona St. kid Christian Westerman, good athlete and plays pissed off
these are some of the guys i expect to go from late 2nd til the end of the draft depending on maybe how they test. Hope this gives you an idea
Cody Whitehair is goin to be my first write up this year (pretty much done the write up, but looking into adding more visual elements this year). My second or third post will be breaking down 50-70 OL by tranches with write ups.
Some guys I like and general thoughts: (Pocic only one who could go top 40)
Joe Haeg- LT for Wentz at NDSU. G/RT in the league.
La’Raven Clark- Good feet, possible LT, some technique to clean but the raw talent is there
Tyler Johnstone- Loved his sophomore tape (he’s better than FIsher was) haven’t watched much this year but seems like ACL isn’t 100% back
Max Tuerk- Think what happens when Kelce and Lane have a love child
Ethan Pocic- Very tall athletic C for LSU. Nasty but moves very well. Think Alex Boone but not a dickhead.
Joe Thuney- Going to be a late pick or UDFA but very clean technique wise. Can play multiple positions along the line. Probably never starts but can cover multiple positions off the bench.
Christian Westerman- Not a huge ceiling but should be a solid starting guard for a while. Decent athlete.
Landon Turner- Really good football player, probably not a fit for us unless we change schemes (reminds me of Laken Tomlinson or Gabe Jackson)
Shon Coleman- LT for Auburn. Very raw but big upside. May come out early because he’s 24 because he lost 2 years in college while kicking cancers ass. Good story but would take a full year to develop
Joe Dahl- Dudes a battler. Has to kick inside in the league. Massive overhaul in pass technique (he uses a weird shuffle instead of the kick slide)
Evan Boehm- Nasty mauling C/G
Austin Blythe- Athletic C/G. Very well coached in zone blocking
Much appreciated.
troll name change = he’s_back_scrambling
maybe..?
excuse me? I’m no troll! I’ve been reading Tommy since EMB when he was goeagles.
sorry said you had only 13 comments and you referenced AR.. my mistake.
No problem. Just a lifelong fan posting his opinion.
Re ‘decimated Patriots’:
in my honest and humble opinion the Eagles would benefit more if both Donta Hightower and Jamie Collins wouldn’t play on Sunday rather than Gronkowski…