Senior Bowl Talk
Posted: January 26th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 559 Comments »I’m down in Mobile, AL for the Senior Bowl. I’m here to scout some football players and stalk Alex Flanagan. She’s normally here, but the NFL Network has reduced their coverage so I hope she’s here. ESPNU will cover practice on Wednesday and Thursday.
Due to the change in coaches, I don’t yet have a great feel of what exactly I’m looking for. I will be focusing in on QB, OL and WR. I’ll check out LB and S as well.
Only one QB here could be worth pick 13 and that is Carson Wentz from ND State. He is a good athlete. He has terrific size. I want to see how he does going up against top flight competition. I’m also curious to see how he does throwing the ball downfield. He has a good arm. I didn’t see much of a vertical game from him this year.
The other QB I’ve become fascinated by is Kevin Hogan. He’s awkward, at times reminding me of Philip Rivers. But he has some athletic ability and played the last 4 years (seemed more like 10) in a pro style offense. He understands throwing the ball to the TE or the FB, as well as WRs. I think he might be a good fit in what I expect Pederson’s offense to be.
I’m excited to see OL Cody Whitehair. He played LT for Kansas State, but easily could slide into LG and thrive. Love watching him play. So smart and technically sound. And nasty. He could be in play when the Eagles pick at 13.
The LT I like the most right now is Kyle Murphy. He is long, tall and athletic. Good run blocker with pass blocking skills. Just needs to get stronger.
Willie Beavers played LT for Western Michigan, but projects at OG in the NFL. He was an adequate pass blocker in college. He just doesn’t have the foot quickness to handle explosive edge rushers at the next level. He is a tough, physical blocker and could be good on the inside. It will be interesting to see how he does this week.
Connor McGovern and Vadal Alexander are two more G/T tweeners. Alexander is a really impressive run blocker. He played RT for LSU.
This isn’t the greatest group of WRs. The guy I think everyone is most excited about is Braxton Miller. He played QB for Ohio State in the past, but moved to WR this year and played well. He is dangerous with the ball in his hands.
Leontee Caroo from Rutgers intrigues me. He’s not huge, but has okay size. He has good hands and plays the ball aggressively in the air. Too many WRs let the ball come to them. He goes and gets it.
There are two big Safeties I’ll be watching. Miles Killebrew lists at 230 pounds and was a star for Southern Utah. He can hit like a ton of bricks. But can he cover?
Jeremy Cash from Duke is a guy that I think would be outstanding playing in Jim Schwartz’s scheme. He is 210 pounds and is a major playmaker near the LOS. Cash had 18 TFLs as a Senior. That’s unheard of for a SS. He can blitz, stuff the run and pound on receivers. He isn’t great in coverage. Can he be good enough? Roman Harper has played in the NFL for a decade with mediocre cover skills. Cash is a terrific student and team leader. He’s the kind of guy you want on your side.
If the weather holds, should be a fun week.
*****
Who wants an extension? Everyone apparently.
Zach Ertz signed an extension yesterday, which is great news. Lock up the young stars.
BGN has the details of some other contracts that are being worked on. Keep your fingers crossed for Fletcher Cox and Vinny Curry.
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VINNY Curry is the most important contract to get done…not just because he should explode in our new defense but also because you can bet your ass the Giants will try to poach our lifelong eagle if he makes it to Free Agency. Curry in a Giants uniform is just a despicable thought
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If the Eagles lock up Cox, Lane, Ertz, Curry, I would think that fans would feel better about paying to retain SAM
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Howie and Doug Pederson are speaking on Wednesday from the senior bowl
If we lock up all them, I hope we get Sam under 20 or it will cripple us
We will NEVER be crippled with Roseman. It’s the one thing he is exceptional at… Doubt having to pay our most important player 21 instead of 18, an extra 3mil WIL “cripple us”…that 3mil difference can be made up by one starter on a rookie contract instead of a starter making 3 mil. If that “cripples us” we don’t deserve to win… QB should be the first player we pay. Picked the wrong position to look to save money
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Even if our Cap gets tight, it’s only temporary until money is moved around, more expensive veterans get axed, or SAM restructuring two years from now..
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I highly doubt after a year without SAM that you will still be happy we didn’t sign him over 3 mil… Easy to talk that łet sam walk shit now. Doubt you will be as willing to deal with the Rammifications as you claim to be now….
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Hopefully it all works out..
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Even if SAM contract looks expensive now, in 6 months 3 other QBs will be paid and it will make Sams deal look better, which is what happened with us losing MACLIN over some extra chump change, and it’s what will happen when Ertz expensive deal becomes more in line after 3 WRs are extended and make more than him… We are entering a new era of QB pay.
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Doubt our cap will ever be in trouble while Howie is in charge…. Not a bad time in this franchise for a GM with his contractual skillset
But Sam is not our most important player. He is not that good that you break the bank. If you keep Sam, you pay him Alex Smith money so that you have money for the defense
Lol stats might not be THAT good, but his QB play was much better than you seem to realize, I get it, hard to tell in the ultimate team game with everything around him falling apart… But we would be very fortunate to have 3 more years of Bradfords play, especially since he still has a lot more ceiling to grow into
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Find a different position to look to penny pinch from
Bradford’s best 6 weeks in 2015 still put him 24th in the NFL, when compared to every other QB’s best 6 weeks.
He’s never been better than mediocre. No matter how many excuses people want to make for him.
I much rather bet on Wentz, Prescott or Boykin than pay Bradford 21 mill.
Lol ok…. How do you bet on someone that probably won’t even last Til 13?
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If we let SAM go, don’t you think every team that needs a QB will know that they have to trade ahead of us?. Betting on a QB who probably won’t be available at 13 in a year where we don’t have a 2nd round pick to trade sounds like a terrible”bet” to me..
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How much longer will we pretend that we can just lose SAM and replace him no problem?
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Mark my words, lose SAM, and you are pushing any chance of success Til the next era of coach after Doug P is fired… You talk like this,but I have a very hard time believing you will be so willing to live with the consequences that are very real if we lose SAM..
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Roster is too good, and im tired of this franchise kicking success down another 3 years not when we are fortunate enough to not have to rebuild…
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If we had the Browns pick, this “Gamble” would make some more sense, but not at 13 in a week draft with no 2nd round pick…Id rather tie up 20mil in cap for 3 years, than deal with having to wait AT least 3 years for quality QB play… Thinking we can just hit on a franchise QB any time we need a QB is like the real life equivalent of planning to win the lottery, especially if we dont have a top 10 pick
Well thinking we had a QB (Foles), is 1 reason we do not have Carr or Bridgewater now.
Also who infront of us will take Wentz? and if he is taken, take a guy like Noah Spence and slowly build like Carolina did.
We just fired our coach, we aint close to anything if we do not build the right way.
FOles was a QB, we were fortunate enough to parlay him into a supperior QB…I don’t know that chip ever considered Nick untouchable, how can I when he traded him after 2 years, 998 years Short of his Committment to Nick 🙂
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With Chip kelly, even if Mark Sanchez was our QB, we can’t assume chip would have taken Teddy or Carr… Would you be surprised to find out that chip DIDNT like those two QBs? Wouldn’t surprise me the least bit…. If Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, SAM Bradford were available in the draft, im not sure Chip passes on them because he has Nick FOles even coming off 27-2 year… When it comes to a QB, you either really believe that he can be special, or you pass… Im not sure many coaches take QBs that they think are solid, but ARENT completly in love with… And I can’t assume Carr or Teddy were guys chip loved and passed on… If you see A Russell Wilson in the draft, you DONT pass on him because you think you have a QB.. Especially when you can always flip one for value… Carr and Teddy are on the right path, but i haven’t seen enough yet to think we made some huge mistake passing on them and will end up watchng them lead other teams to SB’s for years to come
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Passing on Teddy and Carr, doesn’t mean this draft will provide opportunity to land similar QB talent… Im kind of happy that we don’t have a top 5 pick because I’m not even in love with Goeff or Paxton… I don’t know that either will be better than Tannahill caliber QBs, good, but nothing special which puts you in a bad position 5 years go when you are forced to overpay to keep him, or some other team desperate with no QB will throw stupid money at him…
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I guess it’s easier to Want to let SAM Walk If you LOVE QBs in this class that you think you will have a shot at. I WISH I felt that way, it be great to feel like we have options… I just don’t see it that way, even tho i would love to
There is no qb I like like last year but you do not give Dennis Kelly top rt money just because you ain’t sure about the draft. Extensions need to be done separate from your draft because the draft isn’t a sure thing.
I do not mind Sam back, but nothing suggest he is worth more than 18 mill
Lol good one… U can’t possibly believe the Bs you say. I don’t believe you one bit
could say same about djax or mac or mathis
Which is fine – if they don’t think Sam can be the guy, go ahead and enter the draft Powerball. I just hope everyone involved (including fans pining for this scenario) realize the odds are much better for the next decade being somewhere between Cleveland and Cincinnati than it is to being Carolina.
Yeah but see even if people say they understand and that they are ok with it now, I have a hard time believing they really mean it and will be ok with being the Browns for another 5 years, easy to say now, but people sound like they are full of shit to me,,. We are talking about a FANBASE that was in Friggin LOVE with Chip Kelly after two 10 win seasons and turned on him the first time he had a set back during a year we knew would take some time making so many new changes work…. Now im supposed to buy this BS that our fans are so willimg to deal with the very real possibility of QB Hell for God knows how long after already wasting so much time with Kolb, VICK, FOles, Sanchez, Barkley…. Took us years to get our hands on a QB as Talented as SAM, God knows how many years it takes to adequately replace him… F THAT! My Patience for this franchise is at a all time low. Im tired of it… Win Now, or Clean house and hire someone that can win from the front offive to the coaches..
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Lurie is a great owner, but I have never been so down on him as I am now… Patience ran out..
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I watch the Sixers lose for years with a smile on my face because I know we have no other options to build a winner. NFL is different, you can change an entire franchise in an Offseason. time to get it right, and stop pushing success down the line to the future
I know, but betting on Sam’s potential might also make us the lions or this years eagles
I actually agree. Can’t chain yourself to Sam at a high number, ’cause he hasn’t proven that he’s good enough to overcome the holes that a huge number will create. But so far, we have no solid idea on how much he’ll cost, just like we have no solid idea where Wentz will be drafted. It’s all just pure speculation. In which case, I remain open minded about bringing him back. If we start a season with Sanchez or Daniels at starter, I know that my Sundays will be much less cluttered next year, and probably the next few years as well. That’s going to be some really fugly football, and it will impact the development of the rest of the offense, IMO.
gotta see what a guy like cuisins gets paid. skin’s gm is no joke if that K is reasonable then i think you can slot sam at a somewhat cheaper price since unquestionably cousins had a better year.
but if you’re hearing skins are looking in the 25 mil range then you either get a 20m deal done fast or use the tag. skins might also use the tag to make sure it’s not fools gold.
It’s not even gonna be this crazy deal people make it out to be. It will be a front loaded comtract they can get out of in a two or three years if need be, not to mention renegotiation later down the road if we need to free up money for playërs who matter..
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Hardly being financially ruined for a decade like people seem to think
Yea…theres got to be a contract structure that would be acceptable to Bradford and would still allow us an out after 3 years if he doesn’t progress.
SAM Wasnt still improving when the season ended?
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I’ll take the Lions and Eagle path over the friggin ClevelNd Brown path you pretend you would be ok with
sam has way better character than stafford just not numbers.
Are you saying betting on Sam will make us the next Carolina? How’d it work for the Rams?
Nope. Like I said, IF they decide he’s not the guy, then fine. But if you just want to dump him because he’s not elite, and you think that you want an elite QB, you have to realize that most likely, you’re going to draft QBs that are worse than Sam, especially if you’re not drafting in the top 5. I think a lot of people think it’s as easy as simply wanting to draft a generational talent, and you will. Voila!
I think you can win with Sam and a good team. I think many people overrate some of the younger QBs in this league. Andrew Luck hasn’t won anything yet. Russel Wilson has had at least one truly atrocious game in the playoffs in each of the last three years, such that without fantastic ST and D, that team doesn’t sniff the success it’s had. The great Kaep played to form this year, but he no longer had a stacked team to cover his deficiencies. Bridgewater hasn’t accomplished anything yet. And those are the cream of the crop of recent draftees. I’m curious to see how the two top 5 rookies fare now that teams have a season of tape on them. The grass ain’t always greener is my only point. If Pederson and Roseman conclude that Sam isn’t the answer at a number they like, that’s fine. But just saying “We’ll draft the next franchise QB at 13 or later” is like planning your retirement by playing Powerball.
Well said, but people are delusional so you probably won’t get anywhere… People who turned on their beloved coach the first time he had a down year pretending they will be willing to support years of QB hell to save a few dollars on SAM are fucking delusional.. Especially with no adequate plan b
I feel like this is a daily routine for us AC in constantly sticking to the truth about Bradford. I’d like the kid to be an Eagle but the price just doesn’t match the production. Also how long can fans bang the drum of Bradfords “potential”?
What’s the price? Is more or less than the number of draft picks it will cost to select someone who is clearly better than he is?
I’m not saying that of the Eagles draft someone that said player will immediately come in and be better then Bradford but at the cost of retaining Bradford I would much rather go through the growing pains of a rookie or stopgap QB. The Eagles are not 1 or years or even Bradford away from winning the super bowl so why spend elite money on a mediocre QB.
Again, what is the cost? I have no idea. What’s elite money under this year and coming years’ cap? I have no idea. And how many draft picks are you willing to sacrifice to a shotgun approach to getting your franchise QB? Multiple 1sts? A high first and multiple seconds and thirds?
Too many unknown variables for me to make a hard and fast call on Sam.
Film tells the truth … Go watch the Panthers game, a loss where Bradfors stats werent good and wasn’t even one of his best 5 games and get back to me pal… There’s your truth.. I’ll stick every eagke offensive player who matters opinion’s Truth.. I don’t know what “Lie” you are referring to…
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If you have an option THATS realistic that is half as good as what SAM we be, Id love to hear it, so far I just hear crap from liars who won’t even be willing to put up with one season of the rammifications their silly opinions would have us deal with… If I actually believed that people meant the bS Yous say, I might actually respect it enough to even read it lol
texans analogy spot on. best they can be is a good team in a bad division
Thank you
I can’t argue with your stats. They are what they are. But, it’s the context of game tape plus circumstances that makes me a bit more hopeful that his potential stats are much better. No running game, no outside WRs, a bad scheme, and a line that was getting him killed regularly if the ball wasn’t out in less than 2 seconds.
Alex smith will have a new deal, similar to SAM by next year… New era of QB pay, forget the alex smith contracts. Those days are done
I am certainly not against bringing Sam back, but this rationalization sounds like the thoughts of someone who considers those commercials on the radio for credit card debt forgiveness a viable financial path.
No commercials, I have plenty of history to go by, when was the last time You saw an eagle team in a bad Cap situation while Roeman or Banner was in Charge? NEVER! And enough history to base off of to shove your cunty snide comments up your ass… MUah! Lol
Ignoring the misogyny and Internet bravado, that is exactly my point. Howie is smart with money and the cap. He spends money that they have and money that they brought along from last year. I have trouble seeing him spend money that they are going to have in a few years. That is credit debt rationalization.
Exactly! People only look at next years cap and fail to look down the road. In 2017, both Maxwell and Murray can be cut which would free up a ton of money. Same with Peters. All we need to do is make it through this one year and then next year we can easily free up around $20million dollars through just those three players.
Wentz just got meassured with 10 inches hands, so he is now Kelly proff.
yeah but what was his knee circumference?
He is a 7th degree Eagle Scout who spends his weekends helping old ladies cross the street. Chip is all over that
Gotta stalk the dudes in Eagles caps. Will be interesting to see which players they take an interest in.
Hopefully someone VIOLENT!!!
Really intrigued by jeremy cash
I don’t even want to bother looking at safeties since I doubt we will have any idea what this new regime looks for In a safety before we see what type of safeties they add.. I do know that it’s a position Howie has failed miserably at evaluating since we łet Dawk walk… Hopefully Undlin, Schwartz or some defensive coach knows what a great young safety looks like and can help Howie the way Washburn did with the Fletcher Cox pick…
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I have a lot of faith in certain areas when it comes to HOWIE, unfortunately his track record of scouting Safeties and Corners has been pretty scary
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When it comes to our QB play, THAT better be decided by the HC, NOT the personnel department
Got to imagine if a safety will occasionally have gap responsibilities we will need to look into a thumper just to have on the team to be versatile enough to employ the wide 9
Hope so. Defense is in need of some hitters…not enough violence in the back 7.
agreed
Denver defense just made that crystal clear to us
Let’s talk about the defense. Assuming Cox and Curry are taken care of:
DT – Cox & Logan
DE – Curry & Barwin/Graham – MS2 as depth
WILL – Kendricks
SAM – Kiko
MIKE – Hicks
CB – Maxwell & Rowe
SS – ? If Thurmond isn’t resigned, draft pick?
FS – Jenkins
I think with Curry on the field more often, this defense will be much better. I look at 3/4 of the line as dominant. I don’t know how fast Barwin/Graham/MS2 adjust back to DE. Graham I think will do better than the other two, but I at least expect Barwin/Graham to get a decent amount of snaps to give Curry a break on the other side (unless MS2 is that rotational player).
I like our front 7 right now. I also think our secondary is good (not great). They only need to get a solid player at the SS position to not make that a weakness.
Won’t favoring a 1 gap scheme make us more vulnerable to the run, and how does that work (what impact)? Like we really need a Kuechly or Sean Lee type LB to run around making the tackles. Will this just put more pressure on the LB’s?
I am not arguing to stay with the 3-4, just asking what people think this means, how does it play out etc.
Look at the size of kiko and Hicks compared to Lee and kuechly.
What it really means is that the as needs to be more involved
This is my thinking as well. Let the players go make plays.
Being that they won’t be running the wide nine every play it really shouldn’t be a problem stopping the run. Schwartz’s defense still uses a 1 gap attacking DT ,Cox, and he uses a NT, Logan. For the most part Cox will be told to shoot gaps and get after the QB, while Logan will still have basically the same role he had in the 3-4 which is 2 gapping while diagnosing the play.
It’ comes down to execution, both work in theory. 2-gap in theory the 3 down linemen covering 6 gaps, but really they are occupying 3 blockers, if someone gets through their gap, the LBS have to sift through 2 or more blockers considerably bigger than them to make a play.
The fear with 1 gap is the DL explodes through his gap and fails to impact the play, leaving a mob of OL to steamroll your LB’s. More often than not though that DL is highly disruptive when he manages to shoot a gap. If a DL commits to gap integrity on a running down, it is almost impossible to run a gap occupied by a DL. If you try to wash him out with a double team, it’s easy enough to plug the hole back up with a LB.
I think both Cox and Logan win 1-on-1s, so the question is whether our LBs are able to pick up the pieces.
Yeah it’s a give and take. Now when Cox beats his man, he has a chance of causing a big loss, or maybe he misses and it is an explosive run play (if the LB’s can’t clean it up).
It’s funny, a 5 yard loss (and loss of down) reward canoutweigh a risk of a 20 yard gain. We just don’t realize it because 3rd and long has spelled automatic first down for us for 3 seasons straight, uhg.
I’m conditioned to want to give up 7 yards and make them convert 3rd and short!
We’re all in therapy over how bad we were on 3rd down.
me too!
don’t we need to get logan a deal? sad to say but barwin would be a trade for a 6th type of player
Contract isn’t too bad for team trading for him. He’s still in his prime. I think a 4th is a reasonable expectation. It’s similar valuation to Demeco when we traded for him.
Honestly I’d probably trade Barwin for a fourth in this scenario
I’m all about keeping people for depth. Teams get hit with the injury bug too much to let good players go.
I’m not sure how effective Barwin is gonna be at DE… You guys should know I don’t like Graham but his deal we’re stuck with him this year probably
Barwin has played both LB/DE. I think he can still be an effective player for us. Schwartz is a guy who could figure out how to make it work.
but worth the $$?
I think so. Once the injuries come, if he’s not there, people start to wish that they had a better player to be able to step in. The better teams in the league have depth. But that’s my two cents. I swear by insurance, backup all my data, and have spare parts/cables ready at hand.
Please, you just spent 3 years watching Barwin used more like a 4-3 DE with his hand in the dirt and can probably count on two hands how many times he was used as an actual 3-4 OLB rushing from stand up spot
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Barwins role in a Shwartz scheme will be much more similar to what you actually watched Barwin do the past 3 years if you ignore the difference in defensive labels that is causing this ridiculuos narrative..
Barwin should be the SAM LB and that’s undisputed. Kiko might have the size to play it but unless he beats Barwin/Kendricks out at LB then he’s not starting.
Barwin is not a shoe in at sam if we are playing a 43 over. Can he? Maybe, hell probable even. But stone cold lock it is not.
Unless Kiko returns to form (I highly doubt he does) then we don’t really have another person that’s as good at SAM.
It’s a return to health not form.
Kendricks was out of form. Kiko wasn’t healthy.
I don’t think health is the issue when he flat out looks lost on the field.
Ok so lets walk through this with the following play.
OL blocks down. Step up. Expecting Power, Iso, or something coming playside. Secondary read (FB) goes away. Read is now muddy, slow play, chop feet.
So far so good.
Where we come to “OK WHAT THE HELL!” territory is when he comes up to take on the fullback. He clearly doesn’t trust his knee to coil up and stack and shed. So instead he tries to make a pile.
As far as keying/diagnoses he does everything right. He was clearly injured. Frankly the coaching staff shouldn’t have played him after they saw this on tape. He’s clearly not healthy.
https://twitter.com/JohnBarchard/status/668660442991079425
Is he playing hopscotch? Jokes aside he just isn’t the same and he needs to show that he deserves to be a starter. Kiko has one good year and one terrible one (that might not be his fault) but for what we’ve seen? He’s been like Kendricks for us and that’s not really a good sign.
I feel more comfortable projecting Kiko to health than I do saying Barwin can play off the ball 45 snaps a game.
I feel less comfortable knowing that Kiko would more likely get hurt again trying to set the edge.
has long offseason to recoup
Not sure I track the logic here.
it’s interesting to see how dramatically he acts to the guy falling near his leg, or was that from reading something?
That mis step seemed the difference between being able to attack the gap and clog that up, and catching a lineman where he stood.
Kind of a sick move by Jenkins though, did he just put an OT on the ground?
Like I said he clearly knows his knee is not right.
And it’s a TE Jenkins tossed.
I was just mentioning the TE thrown at his legs and him jumping away like a startled cat. Trying to add to your case.
Coach . . .
Nothing better than the “football porn” you give us.
This is what I saw too. A lot of him ducking low at contact because he’s scared his knee can’t take the strain of standing up the blocker.
Hell I appreciate that he still tried to spill the play. It’s not like he’s running the other way to avoid contact. Frankly the coaching staff did a shitty job at not recognizing this.
came off an acl, then partially tore it again. Think he just didn’t trust it. Plus new scheme, with no time to learn it. I blame chip and billy for keeping him on the field.
kendricks is the guy where i’m like WTF.
Yea the Ernie Sims comparison is getting too real. I hope Schwartz can get all of these guys in better positions to succeed.
Id bet we keep Barwin in the edge rusher rotation.. After all he linned up as a 4-3 DE like 400 times the past 3 years when everyone was happy with his production…. It was Rare that he rushed the passer from a standing 3-4 OLB spot… Probably spent like 90 percent of his pass rush snaps with his hand in the dirt…. He can be used on a TE at times if need be, but I would bet he plays the majority of his snaos at DE, not SAM…
Barwin played a lot with his hand in the dirt the past few years. And, when we played a lot of nickel and dime the year before he put up some really stellar sack numbers. I think Barwin will surprise a lot of people at DE, when he can attack and not have to worry about dropping into coverage most downs. Plus I’m excited to see him work that spin move with all the space the wide 9 will provide for him.
SEND TOMMY TO THE SENIOR BOWL!
(Need 16!)
Fellow Igglesblitzarians –
It’s the time of year when our very own Tommy Lawlor stumbles out of the tobacco stalks of North Carolina on his annual trek to the Senior Bowl to scout draft prospects, haze Bryce Petty, trail a weaving Rex Ryan in his rental car, and initiate his very own power struggle with Howie Roseman on the sideline.
This will be his fifth trip to the nation’s premiere all-star event where representatives from the Eagles will scrutinize the country’s top senior talent in hopes of unearthing the next maddening disappointment (SEE Hunt, Tony). Like other bloggers, Tommy will patrol the sidelines during the practices and post his observations, but unlike the rest he won’t have the luxury of expensing his trip. That’s where we come in…
CHALLENGE: If we can generate 45 donations (one for every point Tampa/Detroit scored on us), I will donate $200 ($1 for every crushing third down drop!). Any donation, large or small, will go a long way toward helping Tommy out. Think of it as buying him a beer in exchange for his unique, on the-ground reporting that we all enjoy so much.
To participate in this year’s Senior Bowl Challenge simply click on the “Donate” button along the right hand banner of the page (underneath the “Blog Roll”), give any amount, and then reply to this comment. No need to post how much you gave, simply that you have. And if you’re unable to donate at this time, please consider an up-vote so we can get eyeballs on this son of a gun.
Hard to believe that just last year we were looking for an OT and a CB. Now we just need an OT and a CB, QB, WR, TE, GM, mascot, JUGS machine, and a defensive philosophy…
Fly Iggles Fly!
******************
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(looking for 16 more…)
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Forgive me, but isn’t he there?.
Yes he is. Tommy was going no matter what. But this is about helping to offset some of the cost of taking time off, getting to Mobile, hotel room, and a couple beers at the end of the night.
We do this annually as a thank you to Tommy for all the wonderful work he does.
Indeed, Tommy is already there – D3FB summarized it nicely below…
Done.
Seriously though if one of he or Bama don’t fucking pet Cody Whitehairs beard I’m going to be pissed.
got to draw up a donation contract with bonus incentives
Thanks, D3FB!
Do you think Pederson would be jealous if we drafted Whitehair?
Done. Thanks to Tommy for his work on this site.
Thanks, MAR!
Done.
Thanks, Bill!
Done!
Your user name has ne’er been more appropriate!
Done. Appreciate the great work Tommy.
Thanks, TD!
Done, don’t know what i’d do without Tommy and this site
Yeoman’s work, T-dot!
Done. Anything for Tommy!
JERNST!
Imagine some of the other deals might get held by the Bradford talks and exactly what he wants.
Thanks to Kelly’s offseason last year the Eagles have several underwhelming/bad contracts including Murray, Maxwell, Ryan, and Kendricks among them.
I think all but Ryan have a chance to still pan out for us. The OL woes affected the whole offense, not just Murray. Maxwell IMO had a bad DC, and Kendricks is having a problem staying healthy. All of those guys have been successful in the league, so there’s no reason they can’t still be for us.
I like Ryans, but I think he went to high school with Teddy Roosevelt.
I don’t buy placing all of the blame for Maxwell’s struggles on Davis.
Fletcher and Sconces were benched/cut. Maybe Maxwell’s performance was hindered a bit by injury but at best he was average-below average last year as a starting CB.
Certainly isn’t the worst contract but the Eagles got poor value for the production they got out of him. Little faith he’ll be much better this year. Hoping for ‘adequate’ and that next year is likely his last year here unless he restructures the deal.
Maxwell the first four games was pretty bad. After that I thought he played much better, above average even. Considering the whole defense fell apart last year and most of us were screaming about Billy D – I would like to see what a different DC can do with this team.
Yeah he wasn’t as bad as the first 4 games but that is still a quarter of the season.
I thought he was adequate last year after that but a lot of teams went after him and picked on him even in the 2nd half.
Spoke volumes to me that teams were willing to challenge Maxwell instead of Rowe late in the year too.
Is he a starting NFL CB? Yeah
A No. 1 CB for a team? Shouldn’t be
Alot of the stuff he gave up was scheme. Deep crossers and in breaking routes vs. cover 3. It’s just the inherent weakness of the scheme. Just like cover 2 has holes between CB and S.
He wasn’t great. But he was above average overall. If he was making 8mil a year it wouldn’t have been a problem.
Agreed! Maxwell didn’t justify his large cap number by any means but he was still a substantial improvement on the other two we had there last year.
once he settled in the system you stopped hearing his name so much
That’s both good and bad. Good that he wasn’t getting torched, bad because he wasn’t making the game changing play. I think he’ll be better this year to be honest. Some of those troubles were that we couldn’t get pressure on the QB, and that makes any CB look bad.
I don’t on Murray. It just wasn’t an issue with the line. It was his vision to hit the holes and his acceleration was non-existent.
Hopefully it was due to injury but even next year I don’t see hi mbeing a guy who should get 20+ touches and be the primary back.
Sure that won’t go over well with Murray again too and will be an issue almost immediately too.
I’m also starting to believe because he didn’t buy into CK, he didn’t play as well. That brings up other issues with him as a team player, but I think he still has the goods to be a great back.
We have a major concern at ILB… On paper Kiko, Mychal and Hicks looks great, but 3 starting ILBs with injury history need at least 1 quality backüp
,.
Secondary is more set than it’s been since Dawk retired, but it’s still not Where we need it to be, mainly because of questions about whether Nolan and Walt will be retained, how much longer will they keep Max contract before giving it the Axe? If Roseman is eyeing getting out of the Maxwell deal ASAP, we need to start grooming an eventual replacement now to step in opposite of ROWE in a year or two
..
There is some work to be done, hopefully must comes from hitting on draft picks, im fed up with free agents on the open market.. But I do think Schwartz probably feels pretty good about the horses he has in place
Kendricks contract didn’t seem bad at all when it was given, Maxwell was the best in a bad market and isn’t even a top 10 paid CB that contract may not be bad if he plays somewhat better, Murray contract was laughably bad when it was signed and somehow looks even worse now
Maxwell can go after this year i think
Only 25 guaranteed so yeah if you wanna eat a little but you can next year if that’s needed
Think this year’s cap may be tight, no 20m rollovers but if you play some cap roullette i think you can get through it, dump max next year keep carroll and draft one and be set.
It was odd though especially since Kendricks got criticized a fair amount by Kelly regarding his durability, willingness to play through injury, and consistency. All were issues again last season too.
Interesting article on Schwartz’s time out of the NFL this past season. Maybe he’s grown some as a DC.
https://twitter.com/PHLEaglesNation/status/691956694826553344
Oops this was for a different post. LOL. Here’s the Schwartz article.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/10/27/jim-schwartz-nfl-return-2016
Franchise him with some of the downsides (not being able to franchise Cox) unless they can construct a deal where they get out under it after 2 or 3 years.
I think SB might get a front loaded contract so that in a couple years, they can let him walk if need be. Hedge their bets on the front end.
Sound about right
Eskin also reported that no way, no how, no chance that Nick Foles wold be traded.
Not disagreeing with you, but Eskin’s sources left with Andy. It’s possible that Pederson has reconnected some of Eskin’s links.
Still don’t believe this one at face value, though. I’m probably as big a Sam backer as there is left, but no way do I think he’s coming back at $25M per with big guarantees. So if that’s his asking price to stay (which may indeed be higher than what he’s willing to take from a Denver or Houston), then he’s gone.
QB Salaries. Interesting just to look through the numbers.
Everyone making 20M (damn that is a lot of dough) is either very good or has done very good things. Looking a little lower, it starts to get questionable: Kap and Tannehill are making 19M, and as you trickle down you get some good bargains for the teams and some pretty lame players.
The top QBs are worth the huge chunk of the cap they consume, but it is highly questionable that an average QB getting paid 20M is good ROI. One of the interesting aspects of this is that, for the cost of a big QB contract, you can theoretically get several high-end non-QB players.
A top QB is worth more than several top non-QBs. The difference between a mediocre QB and a less-mediocre QB is not worth the difference in cost.
http://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/
With the new cap, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get Bradford at $20 mill. If so, I think that’s a deal. Cousins might get $23 or more, and I think Bradford is better than he is.
It’s hard to justify it. If the Eagles want him, they would likely have to pay him that, but they will want a clean way out if he ends up not worth that figure (injury, fit, or w/e) or some basic incentives to actually make that much. It may come down to if they can establish an easy out if he’s a Lemon or if Bradford’s camp is hard-line on guaranteed money. I have to imagine Eagles walk in that case.
Here’s the thing with Bradford:
-He’s going to cost right around $20mil a year.
-That’s the equivalent of 2-5 other starting players on non rookie deals.
-He turns 29 this year. He’s never been better than mediocre.
-It’s going to be yet another new system for him
-He’s got an extensive injury history.
-If Chip was still here, I could have lived with it.
But now you’re looking for a guy who is not young, to perform at a level he’s never performed at. He’s one more knee or shoulder from very likely being done for good. Building a great team around him to make up for the fact he’s not a top 10 QB on his best day will be very hard because he’s eating up a large amount of cap.
Basically youre looking for above likely positive variance on multiple fronts for it to work out and be a legitimate contender. With a much higher probability that it becomes a burdensome albatross hanging around the neck of the franchise.
To Roseman:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fb9zfRibh6I/UtL5c4yaGnI/AAAAAAAAeZ8/m2noEMXo6sk/s1600/keep-calm-and-just-say-no-10.png
Belichick . . . you don’t get it.
Bradford throws the best spiral of any Eagles’ QB since Norm Van Brocklin.
Van Brocklin won the Birds their last NFL title.
So it logically follow that Bradford will win the Eagles a title.
It’s all about how sweet the spiral is.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Respect the sleeves, that is all.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/football-nfl-championship-philadelphia-eagles-qb-norm-van-brocklin-in-picture-id143597858
Well done. Now that man wearing those sleeves I would give $20 mil a year to.
Heard that Jamarcus Russel fellow throws quite a nice spiral…
Here is a of all the QBs in the NFL ranked by salary after Sam Bradford (excluding Tom Brady). All these guys are either non-starters or starting QBs on their first contract.
Outside of picking #1, 2, or 3 in the draft (which we will not be doing), Bridgewater, Carr, and Cousins are the best type of QB we could expect to draft at #13 based on the past 4 draft classes. How does Sam stack up to Bridgewater, Carr, and Cousins? That’s debatable. How does Sam stack up to the rest of the list? That’s not debatable, Sam is head and shoulders above them.
So this is the problem, in the past 4 drafts, Bridgewater, Carr, and Cousins (& Sam) seem to be the only QB’s that will be getting big paydays for their 2nd contract. That’s 1 QB per draft after the top 3 picks. Those are not good odds.
Player
Nick Foles
Andrew Luck*
Robert Griffin III
Jameis Winston*
Marcus Mariota*
Brian Hoyer
Blake Bortles*
Josh McCown
Mark Sanchez
Chad Henne
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Chase Daniel
Shaun Hill
Matt Hasselbeck
Drew Stanton
Matt Moore
Derek Anderson
EJ Manuel
Austin Davis
Johnny Manziel
Blaine Gabbert
Charlie Whitehurst
Matt Schaub
Matt Cassel
Teddy Bridgewater**
Bruce Gradkowski
Colt McCoy
Tarvaris Jackson
Kellen Clemens
Scott Tolzien
Derek Carr**
Geno Smith
Jimmy Clausen
Ryan Mallett
Tyrod Taylor
Dan Orlovsky
Luke McCown
Michael Vick
Tyler Bray
Brock Osweiler
Jimmy Garoppolo
Matt Flynn
Garrett Grayson
Joe Webb
Sean Mannion
Mike Glennon
Josh Freeman
Thaddeus Lewis
Josh Johnson
TJ Yates
Kellen Moore
Bryce Petty
Matt Barkley
Ryan Lindley
Ryan Nassib
Landry Jones
Matt Simms
Kirk Cousins**
Tom Savage
Brett Hundley
Brandon Weeden
Aaron Murray
AJ McCarron
Zach Mettenberger
Case Keenum
Pat Devlin
Trevor Siemian
Logan Thomas
Ryan Griffin
David Fales
B.J. Daniels
Sean Renfree
Ryan Williams
Taylor Heinicke
Zac Dysert
Brad Sorensen
Alex Tanney
Connor Shaw
G.J. Kinne
Matthew McGloin
Dylan Thompson
Keith Wenning
Stephen Morris
Jameill Showers
Jerrod Johnson
Phillip Sims
Matt Blanchard
Garrett Gilbert
* Top 3 pick in draft, first contract, solid starter
** first contract, solid starter
very well reasoned. you should send to howie.
No, it’s not good odds and I agree it will be hard to get a better QB than Bradford. It is always hard to successfully replace a starter, and QB hardest of all. That being said, if you feel (as I do), that Bradford’s upside is an illusion and he is what he is, I personally would let him go without hesitation. The top QBs are worth it, the average QBs are not. I’d rather have a low-average QB and upgrade the team than pay a high/mid average QB and cut corners elsewhere. Better to churn through random QBs on rookie contracts, looking for the answer, than settle for the best bad QB on $20M.
I hate to overreact to playoff games, but take a look at this year’s field. Bradford will never be as good as Cam Newton or Russell Wilson or Big Ben or Tom Brady. Some very optimistic folks think of Palmer as his ceiling, and Palmer just threw, what, 6 interceptions when he finally played a good playoff team. The only QB worse than Bradford is the remnants of Peyton, maybe… and that team rode a stacked, historically-good defense full of ring-chasers.
I assume we are trying to build a contender for the Superbowl and not just trying to get to the top of a bad division.
I would disagree with everything you said.
A below average QB on that list is equivalent or worse than Mark Sanchez. Sanchez is not getting you to 8 wins. Sanchez even had a great pedigree coming out of USC. It would suck having that as your ceiling why waiting for the next Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers.
Sam has never played on a good team, let alone a great team. The QBs you list above all have good to great defenses. Cam and Russel had excellent years, and their defenses still carried their teams.
Sam dealt with 12.85% drop rate, or put differently he had 195 passes dropped this season. I’d like to know another QB in the league that would be successful with numbers like that. That’s more than 11 passes dropped per game.
Add to that the offensive holding and illegal procedure penalties, the offense was playing behind the sticks much of the season.
According to this site, on the season, the receivers only dropped 37 balls for a 6% drop percentage (1st in NFL). Not sure where you got 195 from.
http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-receiver-drops-percentage/2015/
13% number was from WRs. But PFF puts it about 9%. Still a very high number, and the number of drops is their calculation. Still very high if they are incorrect. And not very helpful to QBs. Rodgers dealt with drops midseason and people didn’t say they were losing because of him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/eagles/comments/3qg8eu/bradford_has_thrown_for_208_yards_in_the_air_on/
I agree they dropped a shitload of passes and completely changed the season. But you had 195 passes dropped. Obviously that was a typo as others have it between 37 to 58. I did the quick math in my head and over 1/3 of passes dropped seemed improbable.
I’d be curious if the tempo lead to some of these drops. I guess we’ll see in San Fran this week.
Yes and apologize for misreading it. It may have been from another article which I read that shows Bradford at like 6.5-6.9% drops from when he entered the league. If people believe in bad/good luck – Bradford has had the worst with drops.
I think he could be the guy, but willing to hedge on a 3 yr deal. Slower pace, added with a real run game and consistent ol play should change things. But we have to wait and see.
I think he showed real ability. Funny thing is, he’s better than McNabb as a passer and its not even close. I can’t imagine a scenario where McNabb would even be drafted in the first round today. Teams care about accuracy more than anything these days.
Here’s a 9 minute video of the some of the drops from each game. Killer are the ones on 3rd down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnvyIdos4w
BGN did some stats of what Bradford would look like without all the drops. Huge difference, and we wouldn’t be talking about trying to find another QB.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/11/10749892/sam-bradford-drops-philadelphia-eagles-wide-receivers-quarterback-contract-nfl-stats-2015
Last one, from BGN and this is more recent:
https://twitter.com/BrandonGowton/status/686609703623897088?s=09
1. I don’t believe in Cousins. Carr is a better QB today than Sam. 10000%. Teddy is better at being efficient than Sam and is being held back by a defensive HC. So I’d take Teddy.
2. You’re list weirdly omits guys (even with your non top three). All of these guys were not top 3 picks.
Andy Dalton
Kaep
Tyrod
Tannehill
Osweiler
RUSSEL Fing WILSON
Carr
Bridgewater
Garropollo
3. I’m not giving 20 million dollars for a guy who will win 1 or 2 more games than some shitty backup.
4. I get it. QB hell is scary. Expensive ass QB purgatory scares me far more.
He said people making less than sam currently. I think Andy, Kaep, Tannehill and RW are making more.
TT is deal of the century for Bills.
Osweiler – even 4 years behind peyton looks….
Garrapollo – same
But I don’t give a crap about who makes less than Sam right now. It’s a weird jumping off point. Because Sam isn’t going to make 13 mil next year. If he wants to sign for 13 a year sure I’m down. No way in hell I’m paying 20.
20 mil a year is for Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco guys or better. Sam may be that good. But I’m letting someone else take that risk.
Hard to use old numbers, Qbs are going to eat up their fair share of new cap space.
Point still remains, I’m not paying a guy a shitton of money to be mediocre and maybe if everything breaks right he’s a Flacco or Ryan and then if everything breaks right I have to build a team around him to elevate his play, and then I have to have a good enough defense, and then have everything break right with health, and then have everything break right in the playoffs.
I’m just not that into if everything breaks right maybe kinda sorta possibly for the equivalent of 2-5 other starters. I’d rather take my shot at the QB. And if it doesn’t work out well the Jets and Texans were about as good as peak Sam is gonna get you anyways.
You’re giving a lot of praise for Matt Ryan when many in Atlanta wish they could get out of his contract. Even with Julio Jones, Ryan had a year on par with Sam, even with Sam’s atrocious first half of the season.
I’d still rather have Ryan, because Ryan has actually had spells of being good in his career.
When he had a younger, healthy Roddy White, Julio Jones, and a HOF tight end Tony Gonzales? Yup, he played good on some super-talented teams and regressed each year for the past 3 years. Not to mention he’s played 3 more years than Sam.
I was referring to QBs on their first contract since being drafted. All the guys above Sam on the annual salary list are on their 2nd or 3rd contract. Basically, if a QB gets to his 2nd contract and is a decent starter, he’s going to get paid at least $18 million, as both Cousins and Sam will be getting in the next few months.
Bottom line, you’re either drafting a rookie outside the top 3 picks in the draft and hoping for the best (Cousins, Carr, Teddy), or you are shelling out $18+ million for Sam. Not a simple call.
As my list shows it’s a bit deeper than Cousins, Carr, Teddy.
Not in the last 4 years.
RUSSEL FUCKING WILSON WAS DRAFTED IN THE LAST 4 YEARS
So what’s your point?
That you’re overly narrowing the window to the point that it makes it appear far more unlikely than it is.
The point I was trying to make is that only 4 QBs drafted after the first 3 picks of the first round in the past four years are legitimate starters.
With drafting a qb after the first 3 picks in round 1, you’re looking for above likely positive variance on multiple fronts for it to work out and be a legitimate contender. With a much higher probability that it becomes a burdensome albatross hanging around the neck of the franchise with the high probability that in a few years you will have to draft another QB to be the starter.”
either they want to get the point or they don’t
Ok but in the meantime I can pay a bunch of other players because I’m not paying a ton for mediocre.
With that I would say welcome to 6 win seasons every year. But on the bright side, at least you can pay other players that don’t impact the outcome that much.
OH shit but we can win 7 or 8 with Sam! Sign me right up!
I’ll get right on that.
Lots of QBs taken that year, lots of moves made to get Qbs that year — only 2 good ones . Who knew RW would be soo good, no one or he would have went first.
Also taken RGIII, Tannehill, Osweiler, Foles, all those guys suck. Even Os sitting behind a hall of famer probably best teacher ever was meh and now it’s time to pay him.
That is an awesome post, Dave. Great research. I’m sure the Eagles are well aware of the odds. They’re not going to put all of their QB eggs in the draft basket. They also have to play football games in 2016, even if they don’t have their franchise QB. And they’re not going to tank, regardless of whether anyone thinks they have a chance of going to the big game.
If they think SB gives them a better chance to win games in 2016 than anyone else available to them, he’ll be back. Salary won’t matter. They’ll want the terms to be the best for the Eagles, but they’ll eventually work it out. They’re not going to trade even 1 win for a few million bucks. And they may still draft a guy and hope to beat the odds. But they’re not going to count on it.
Thanks. Not much research, just some realistic expectations. I can’t even imagine the statistical and scouting research the team has on the subject of QBs. I think one thing that may skew the odds of drafting a QB in the Eagles favor is they seem to have a coaching staff set in place that could really develop a young QB. I personally believe coaching and surrounding talent have a lot to do with a young QBs success.
I think I agree, but I’m still not sure what the opportunity cost is. First, I’m not sure what a journeyman QB (or maybe worse, like Chase Daniels) would cost. I’d think we’d need to go hard after a rookie 1st round QB too, and I’m not sure what that would cost (both in terms of the money and the risk that he’s not there when we pick/what we’d need to trade to move up). And then I’m not sure what else we’d buy with whatever savings is left.
One more obvious factor to consider is scarcity of really good QBs. I don’t think Kap’s contract is doing any favors to SF, but there’s at least an argument to be made that Tannehill’s contract makes sense given the market.
This isn’t an argument for keeping Bradford per se. I just want to know concretely what the alternative is. I get that it’s hard to know concretely because we’re really just talking about a pile of cash plus players with uncertain value, but I don’t even have a sense of what this value would be in terms of the players we could actually field.
no comments about how good the Spurs are today?
Was that directed toward me? I, like most Spurs fans, are never too happy playing other elite teams in the regular season. We tend to lose those. That being said, this was ridiculous. Can only hope to get better and that the Warriors get worse.
yes, I’m just teasing bc you like to talk up the Spurs on an Eagles blog. Of course, the Sixers aren’t good. Yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=294&v=3V-nvkz_aRI
Scary how much this guy is like looking into the collective inner workings of Pats’ fans.
You could pop into almost any sports bar on the North Shore, South Shore, or the Western suburbs out to Worcester and find numerous clones of this guy.
Adam Caplan
@caplannfl
6s6 seconds ago
#Eagles and TE Brent Celek agreed to a 3-year, $13m deal with $6m guaranteed, per sources.
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Had a cap number of $5M this year so this probably substantially reduces that. Still going to be relatively high paid for his role. Think it might have been better to simply release him and get a cheaper, #2 blocking TE. Celek is high-character though and I expect they want him on the team.
It is very difficult to cut ties with guys like Celek and Ryans but I’ve always appreciated to grittiness and moxy Celek has and being a career Eagle I am glad to see that it looks like he may end his career in Philly. Hopefully with Ertz and Celek locked up Pederson will use 2 TE sets a lot.
Hope he gets to retire as an eagle
Tôugh SOB too…
Damn right.
He has more value then what you see on the field, especially during a coaching change..if we are going to cut a guy like Mufasa, you will need a Celek type veteran or two that LIVE Eagle football… I prefer this to cutting him
eh, half the staff is form eagles / eagles connections. but agree sort of want to do right by him.
Staff does nothing for our Locker room chemistry..two very different dynamics/roles
..
I don’t really care which veteran the keep, but we shouldn’t exterminate all of them.. Im glad to have someone like Celek for two more years while we transition to the youth movement .. Basically Ertz and Celek almòst swapped contracts, which is what I wanted… Don’t see what’s to be upset about… Now we penny pinching from Celeks pay cut deal too?
Clear they are going to pay to have people retire on this team (philly feeling) gotta hope numbers are 3, 3, 7 or even more favorable. Clear JP not going anywhere. Not sure how i feel about the way this seems to be going – like why throw all that balloon $ on the end of the agreement?
“why throw all that balloon $ on the end of the agreement?”
Agents.
true, true
Why is it clear JP is going no where? No playërs have been cut yet. One player has been extend, and one has renegotiated(celek).. What “Tea Leaves” are there to read when it comes to JP? He hasn’t been cut yet? Neither has Riley Cooper… I don’t think JP is getting cut this year, but that’s because we have enough OL holes to fill without cutting him.. But I don’t think we know anything yet about what the plans are for him..
..
Im starting to worry that the Eagles are going to renegotiate a pay cut extension for Cooper instead of flat out cutting him. I want him Gone, unless he wants to play for 1mil a year as the ST replacement for Ajiratutu. I don’t ever want to see him line up as a WR again,… Unless he wants to put on 50lbs and be a blocking TE with CElek, I want Coop GONE! Tired of being able to hold the racist crap over our head, tired of judging Wrs off Blocking…
is celek worth 3 mil a year?
It’s fine if it’s
2016:4 fully
2017:4 (2 guaranteed) keep if still has value if not dead $ not hinderace
2018: 5 nothing guaranteed
Brent celek 3yr $13 million contract extension
Joe Banner congratulates the Eagles for Ertz signing, but says Zack is going to kick himself when he realizes how much money he left on the table, because the old contracts are worthless as a barometer entering this new Cap era…
..
Im dying to find out how much the jets will pay for continuity with Fitzpatrik… If he gets like 18mil, the QB price tags are going to start getting crazy, even tho it’s deserved. Pay should finally reflect the most important position in sports
Eagles were denied an interview request with Lion’s DL coach Kris Kocurek, according to Mclane.
Hopefully the niners will give us a new treadmill or a soda machine (Death to smoothies) in exchange for Taylor hart
Just have them send Tommy a case of PBR and I’ll be happy with that transaction and believe we get the better end of the deal on that one.
Fair enough, Ill take it
if the eagles franchise bradford or lock him up longterm you can say goodbye to carrol, curry and thurmond for sure. and that includes releasing cooper ryans and sanchez
Well if most reports are true, a big if, and Curry is the top priority then Curry will be locked up before Bradford. I am fine losing out on Carroll and Thurmond as long as Curry is locked up and they have a plan for the QB position. Thurmond may not be Pederson’s kind of safety anyways and you can find overachieving CBs in the draft to replace Carroll.
yeah thats what i figure happens. ive been playing around at overthecap which hasnt updated the ertz and celek extensions. if we franchize bradford and cut coop sanchez ryans were left with about 8 mil in cap space for curry/fa/rookies. unless that doesnt take into account the rollover money from last year
One thing Howie can do is manage the Cap. If they want Sam they will find the money for him
so our cb’s for next year are maxwell rowe and shepperd? thats pretty thin. and we would need to sign or draft a ss
Watkins is on the roster too. But I’m sure they will draft a CB and or bring a FA.
with what money?
One thing I’m not worried about with Howie in charge is the cap. The guy will move the money around through cuts, trades and restructures
i hope your right 🙂
The dream team happened with a much smaller cap. The dream team had no lasting financial repercussions of any sort. Since the dream team Howie has avoided top level FA in favor of midtier and bargain basement (smart). Howie will be fine managing the cap going forward, even if it means having to bargain hunt this year until Murray and Maxwell come off the books.
Howie no good at amassing secondary, one good thing about chip’s last year is that we at least have options.
Run Murray next year until he disintegrates. Either he plays great, or you have a good justification to cut him going into 2017.
But we should shoot for a ton of touches for Murray.
Yup. He’s here and you aren’t getting rid of him. I’d run him 30 times a game.
i want to believe that it was all on kelly for not using him right but he really didnt pass the eye test. no burst at all and was being brought down regularly by arm tackles
If John Elway and Denver can find ways to hand out new monster contracts every week then Howie Roseman can find ways to fit all these contracts under the rising cap.
Regardless of resigning Bradford, I would hard pressed to believe the any of those guys, with the exception of Vinny, will be back. Thurmond wants to get paid big money.
well id atleast want carroll back for about 4 mil a year. he was playing at a reasonably high level until the injury, which will also make him cheaper.
I think they should let Rowe start. He really came on towards the end of the season. Really only has one bad game. And Carroll is going to want starter money.
You’re going to pay a backup 4 mil a year?
i would have rowe as a starter as well but i dont trust shepperd at nickle which is a starters position. plus if rowe or maxwell gets injured i dont want to play watkins or shepperd on the outside. i think 4 mill would be worth the depth and having a better nickle. it also allows us to run a more effective dime defense. we are paying celek around that to be a backup in the same vein
Knowing Howie I can see him getting Biggers back for very cheap and he played decently in spot duty last year. Him and one draft pick would leave you with a cheap rookie and a veteran who has starting experience.
Well Schwartz doesn’t play dime. So that would be pointless.
Once again variance between good nickel and meh nickel is like 15 plays a year. That’s not worth 4 million.
Depth is great but that would be a shitty allocation of resources.
Would you rather have a starting G like Jeff Allen or a 3rd CB?
CB until OL plays poorly, OL until a team goes Bucs/Lions on us.
i didnt know that about schwartz. i would absolutely rather have jeff allen. although i dont agree on the point about only 15 plays a year. teams play nickle atleast 40% on the time and usually more than that
Yes so the average team plays about 900 defensive snaps.
40% is nickel. We’re not at like 350 plays.
Like half are runs (11 personnel is base for many teams)
We’re at 175.
How many targets is the Nickelback seeing?
Like 80.
Figuring natural incompletion rate where ball is only in area and not catcheable. So thats like 25%
We’re down to like 60.
Figure half of those are route patterns and well run routes where Primetime himself aint stopping it.
We’re down to 30.
Figure half of that is the difference between a very good nickel and a good nickel.
There’s your 15 plays.
damn send your resume in.. get on staff
lawyered!
Wait a minute didn’t you say a handfull of plays ends up being the difference between 10-6 and 6-10 or some such? 😛
Plus while we aren’t suddenly going to start drafting mighty mites, the size thing isn’t as much of an issue w/ outside CBs.
The thing is remember where we got Carrol. Bargain basement FA. I’d rather take a flyer on a guy for $2 mil on a one or two year deal than give Carrol a 3 or 4 year deal at $4 mil.
It’ll be interesting to see what Carrolls market value is. He’s proven to be an adequate, reliable starter, but not someone that you’d commit big money to. He’s coming off a broken leg. He’s gonna be 29 I think. He MIGHT be cheaper than we think. If not I agree completely with your assessment.
Will also be interesting to see what Boykins value is after his disastrous year. He might be someone that we could surprisingly sign as a good NB.
I think a team making a roster switch will want him for right around the 4 mil figure to be a starter until they can bring in young replacements. He’s going to be a better version of Cary Williams for somebody.
and i dont want to have to draft a cb.
Shepperd, Watkins, Rice, Bargain bin vets.
A CB or two is getting drafted no matter what.
Too much to pay for Carroll who would rarely see the field. Rowe is locked in as a starter with the way he developed.
agree sad to say for carroll, could be a casualty.
Not so. We have $15 mil in cap space this year. Plus we can roll $9.5mil forward from last year. Redoing Celek’s contract probably frees up another $2.5mil. Cutting Cooper saves about $3mil. Sanchez another $3.5mil. Ryans another $3.5mil. That’s $37mil in cap space we can work with this year. More than enough to resign all the guys we want back.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/cap/
And that’s not counting the $20mil in cap savings we can get in 2017 when we can cut Maxwell, Murrary and Peters.
Exactly. The cap situation isn’t in as good of a place as it was a year ago, but with the jump in the cap, and the fact we were well set up going into GM Chip, it’s far from dire.
We can keep whomever we want. It’s just going to be a sliding scale of keeping vs spending money on better scheme fits.
really i murray contact wasnt here we’d be golden
Yea, Maxwell’s overpaid but at least is a good player.
For someone who considers himself a forward thinker, the Murray deal was always going to be remarkably stupid.
I hated that contract from day one! Forget the overuse from the year before, the injury and the fact that he was never THAT great of a RB to begin with, it’s the most fungible position in all of football and one you can adequately stock for pennies on the dollar if you invest in OLine. Plus it all but negated the cap benefits of trading Shady and saddled us with a guaranteed contract over Shadys series of one year deals that got less expensive every year. Terrible GMing there.
that rollover makes a big difference.
All good points, though we do have to sign all the draft picks with that money too — will be a bit more than past years since we are in a higher slot. And if we replace Sanchez with someone like Chase Daniel, it might cost almost as much. On the other hand, I doubt Daniel would sign if we keep Bradford, but even then a veteran backup QB might not be all that cheap. Better than 3.5 though.
I’m guessing the Ertz/Celek moves in combination have actually lowered the 2016 cap hit though, so those moves don’t eat up anything (unless you were eyeballing Celek’s previous 5 million as a savings — we now just get a little savings, but also keep the player).
Looking forward to your analysis and general info from Senior bowl week, Tommy!
You know me, I’m all about the stats.
Pabst Blue Ribbon
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/447/1331/
BA Score: 70
compare to:
Budweiser
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/65/
BA Score: 58
my recent find:
Big Eye IPA
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/199/709/
BA score: 91
compare to:
Sculpin (same company as Big Eye)
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/199/29619/
BA score: 96
But Sculpin cost like $14 a six pack at Whole Foods and Big Eye was only $9 or so. When I tried Sculpin recently, it didn’t blow me away any more than Big Eye.
I’m doubtful of Sculpin being so much better than other IPAs. Anything Stone makes I think is better, and Tasmanian IPA is a phenomenal IPA. I agree with you and would do Big Eye.
Cheap non-IPAs Dales Pale Ale and Pork Slap are my go tos.
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2210/108525/
Just tried some of this, not bad. an 87!
for a drinking bear pbr aint bad. budweiser is shit. i just got back from holland and belgium and their drinking bear (light bear) is so much better than in america.
Do yourself a favor and go watch Jeremy Cash. I watched him on Draftbreakdown last year and he is everywhere making plays. I don’t remember him being that bad in coverage.
Cash rules everything around me?
http://elitedaily.com/sports/justice-haynes-stiff-arm-dc-cop/1361406/ im sure most of you have seen the video of the dc cop stiff arming a poor soul in the snow, now meet the man behind it. he just happens to be my older brother and a die hard eagles fan
Awesome story. Your brother and the officer both seem like cool dudes. Oh and your brother took a vicious madden style stiff arm on that play.
thanks man. atleast he got back up haha. he called me to try and get me to come play but i couldnt get there. would have been sick
lol I do give him credit for getting back up for sure. I haven’t played a backyard football game in years let alone a snowbowl type game. Really wish I was there for that or at least living near by to witness it.
Haha, that’s insane! I can’t believe the cops played tackle football with their guns holstered to their waists. That seems a little dangerous, no?
yeah thats one of the reasons he thought it was 2 hand touch. you dont want to tackle someone with all that gear on, let alone a gun
seems like a reasonable conclusion for him to make
Plus…like he said…it’s pretty much ingrained in most people to not approach a uniformed police officer and physically tackle him to the ground
anyone here have madden 16 for xbox one and want to play online?
thatd be awesome…but I’m still playing with Vick and DeSean on PS3…haha
ahhh back when the eagles were nice on madden.
Best combo for me was Mac5 to Owens. They were literally unstoppable with McNabb’s arm strength and Owens just being so good. Add in Westy and man that team was sick.
i liked the 2008 team alot. desean was like 100 speed or something. they added an extra gear just for him. god i miss westbrook. still one of my favorite all time eagles
Underrated team for me back in the day were the 06, I believe, Raiders. Aaron Brooks (very poor man’s Vick) throwing to Moss and Jerry Porter. Don’t know how old you are pal so I hope you recall that team, no disrespect if you are old enough to remember.
im only 21 but i do remember that team to an extent. at that point i was mainly just focused on the eagles. i started watching football in 2002. first game i ever saw was the eagles bucs nfc championship game when i was 8 and i fell in love with the eagles
Wow what a hell of a game to witness for your 1st football experience. What a great game. We can definitely have some fun going at it in Madden. I am not much, at least I like to believe, older then you. I am 35 so I can still shit talk with the best of them.
wow…that was your first game and you still fell in love with the Eagles. I was at that game. And after the huge return and Duce’s quick TD to start the game I was sure we were going to the Super Bowl.
The ending of that game nearly broke me.
i guess you could say im a masochist. like most eagles fans who choose to be eagles fans
You fit in well! That was not a good day.
Unfortunately I have Madden 25 which came out after the 2012 season. The Birds have an overall rating of 72 and their defense is atrocious. Quite accurate actually. But, yea…Vick to Jackson with McCoy in those 2010-2012 issues was awesome. Might be time to upgrade.
I go on occasionally under my sons xbox live account and just bully people because I am that good. Maybe not that good but my son has never beaten me in his life.
Screen name – iSeeUjocknJavi
(he’s 5) 😛
He’s 13 now, but their is no love loss when we strap it and play Madden. He used to cry to his mother that I wouldn’t let him win when he was like 10 but now that he’s getting older and still cant beat me he gets real frustrated and kicks me out of his room without.
haha well he’ll thank you for it later. no one wants to win because their opponent let them
Well now that he is a little more of age I let him get away with some grown folks smack talk, which at times I let him get away with a little too much profanity, but being that he doesn’t curse in front of his mother I let him slide especially while playing Madden. I used to be really good and still consider myself good so he likes to play against me as a measuring stick then plays online all night.
do you drop some moves like these on him after you win?
http://imgur.com/gallery/JquUvuu
I’ll tell you one thing, if I could dance like that I would dance like that in his face after every win but I cant so I just let him have it verbally.
My father (RIP) once told me that the day I could beat him on the Intellivision was one of the best/worst days of his life.
RIP to your father BB. On another note he was absolutely correct in what he told you. I preach to my son all the time to have patience and it all paid off for him when, this is hard to admit, we were playing a quick one on one basketball game and he dunked on me. That moment right there was me as a dad being embarrassed and proud at the same time. Still lean more towards being embarrassed by getting dunked on by my 13 year old son.
please tell me that’s an 8ft hoop
It definitely was not regulation size but he is also already 6 feet tall and I am only 5’9.
What, no hard foul? Own your lane man.
Absolutely thought about giving him a nice elbow to the stomach but then my conscious kicked in and I couldn’t do it. He is lucky no one but his mother was around or else I would of really knocked him on his ass.
Go earn your two at the line son…………
cool ill add you. it shouldnt be as easy against me
Sounds good buddy, I am always up to the challenge. Just a reminder that if you send a game request and I do not respond, it is most likely my son playing. What’s your s/n so I know who to look for?
veritasaquitas5.
i added your son as a friend. hopefully he accepts
Senior Bowl is this Saturday at 2:30PM EST if you guys didn’t know.
Yeah, I’ll pass and just wait for Tommy’s review.
It has been pretty bad the past few years so I can’t really blame you.
Is it on TV?
NFL Network and I think ESPN?
“The Chiefs consistently used two tight ends while Pederson was in Kansas City, and Travis Kelce was a focal point of the passing offense. Ertz should be the pass-catching weapon in Philadelphia with Celek putting his blocking skills to work as the in-line option.” – roto.
i would have liked that 3rd TE to get some work
i really like burton. does anyone know what his blocking is like?
Anyone hear anything about the anonymous book about being in the NFL that some think might have been written by our own David Molk?
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/26/10833104/anonmyous-player-book-nfl-confidential-johnny-anonymous-eagles-david-molk-philadelphia
Haven’t seen anything too juicy in the reviews about what he wrote. But, it could be an interesting read if it really is by Molk.
scUM
Is he really different from anybody else who does not like their job but stays because they couldn’t make the same money anywhere else?
scUM is something folks say about University of Michigan.
Lol, I should have known that since my sister lives within 1/2 hour of the campus and my nephew decided against going there for Engineering this year. He probably said that to me and it went over my head.
Ike Reece uses it often.
I actually like the insider / realist view of a sport. Ball 4 was an amazing book.
People glorify playing in the NFL too much. They act like it’s a privilege to have to continually absorb contact from some of the strongest and fastest people in the world.
Don’t really know how to take that comment.
My favorite Chinese restaurant is called C-Fu. The owner is a huge old Chinese guy. One time I walked in with my Eagles sweatshirt and he pointed at him and said, “You liked them, huh? I got real messed up playing for those guys!” He does limp quite noticeably. I understand he holds a monthly get-together for old players, but recently he sold the joint, so that might be done.
Senior Bowl weigh ins done.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/26/10835196/senior-bowl-2016-weigh-in-results-nfl-draft-2016-players-prospects-carson-wentz-height
Deiondre Hall (a CB) has 34.3 inch arms. That’s OT length arms.
LeRaven Clark (OT). 36 inch arms.
Dadi Nicholas(OLB) 35 inch arms
Jerome Couplin has an 81″ wingspan as a safety. I assume Hall has a similar build.
Not a big fan of the money Celek got but there is a value to continuity. This isn’t the type of move the Eagles would have made 10 years ago since they don’t have the luxury of having guys like McNabb, Runyan, Tra, Dawk, and Westbrook.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/1/26/10835196/senior-bowl-2016-weigh-in-results-nfl-draft-2016-players-prospects-carson-wentz-height
Heights / Weights are in for the senior bowl.
I think all of this means that I still don’t wank Dak Prescott or Boykin at QB.
Dakota remains a mystery.
What would he have to show this week for you to say, “take a flyer” on him?
“take a flyer” as in 5th round or later; coach-ability in practice and keeping his eyes downfield rather than going full Johnny Football and running at the first hint of trouble.
Earlier than that; nothing.
There’s a kid who’s smart, fine leader, physical attributes.
He’d have been better served — from an NFL scouting perspective — at a school that runs an Erhardt-Perkins or WCO offense.
Besides Stanford . . . does any college run anything besides the Air Raid or Spurrier-Mullens spread? (NOT COUNTING OREGON . . . no more Ducks, please.)
_____________
OK. How ’bout that Kevin Hogan from Stanford?
Hogan, at first glance, strikes me as “career backup” in terms of his ceiling. I know he’s gotten better every year, but I don’t see a dude who is going to get much better.
Pencil in DE Bronson Kaufusi of BYU to the Chiefs.
He’s the son of Eagles 1989 12th Rd . . . DE Steve Kaufusi from BYU (now BYU’s D-line coach). A Buddy guy.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaufSt20.htm
I’ve seen his name on some draft boards. I guess the BYU connection is strong with Reid.
Always finds a spot for a BYU guy on the roster.
(Safety Dan Sorensen this season)
Yes, the poor Cards got shellacked, but at least:
http://www.weather.com/weather/today/l/Phoenix+AZ+USAZ0166:1:US
That helps me on neither account. I still have to suffer through Carolina and I’m not in Arizona.
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=32.76683614200044&lon=-79.96647850599965#.VqfymoUrLDc
This is my happy weather place and future (half of the year) retirement venue.
Only have bad memories of middle school in Columbia… grr. By all accounts, Charleston’s much nicer.
We don’t go too far inland from Charleston.
I asked a guy to plow my parking lot. Not a big one. Fits about 50 cars. He asked for $2000. No lie. The more responsibilities I have the more I hate snow.
Ski mask and gun.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20160127_Snow_jobs__Is__500_too_much_for_a_driveway_.html
Gold rush mentality
This a lengthy read but very interesting. The writer is not an Eagles fan, is impartial, has no misty-eyed, but skewed, memories. Uses actual numbers and clear thinking. Nice change.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/1/22/10817060/a-few-thousand-words-on-chip-kellys-time-in-philadelphia-and-a-hint
Thank you for posting this.
2013 part – The author is smoking crack in their support of Kelly in cutting DeSean.
The article got people thinking at least. Thousands of words, like the author says, yet still some nit-picking 1 point. Oh well. Nobody’s perfect. I saw the piece as a change of pace written by someone who has little emotional investment in the Eagles. Maybe a little more clear-eyed. ;~)
Yeah, I enjoyed reading it. I disagree with a lot of it, but it was worth seeing what San Fran folks are willing to rationalize.
2014 – fair assessment, but glossed over Sanchez being brutal with ball security and refusing to throw the entire route tree.
The guy refused to acknowledge Chip not benching struggling players but what can we expect from a guy who hasn’t watched every game?
The whole situation was a mess. Chip, Roseman and Lurie are all to blame.
I blame Billy Davis,
I blame Tommy Gamble for being related to roster genocide collaborator Harry Gamble. A stain exists on that family that will linger for generations.
Are you that desperate to find someone who agrees with your point of view that badly?
ha ha ha ha ha. I’m choosing to address the article.
I’m not disagreeing with some of the points in the article. Chip has done some things right but in the end buried himself in his own grave. What Lane said earlier in an interview made me feel less sympathetic towards Chip Kelly.
2015 – stupidly rips Kelly for non re-signing Maclin, who didn’t even come close to providing $11 mil worth or production in KC.
Totally glosses over Tom Gamble being complete and total snitch for the reason he was fired. And mostly incompetent as well.
“some” play calling problems for Chip is really soft pedaling how bad the play calling was.
PDXChip
joined Jan 19, 2016
last login Jan 25, 2016
posts 2
Interesting stuff for an unbiased author.
Chip kelly the coach got Chip Kelly the GM fired. There’s no good reason that Demarco Murray didn’t work out other than CK didn’t know how to use him.
And Murray’s visiion was shit and he’s slow as shit.
Impartial? That was really biased towards Chip Kelly
Most of the piece wasn’t even about Chip. It presented actual numbers about previous drafts, some players (DeSean’s eg ) actual production, Roseman’s awful drafting and how it is still affecting the team, numbers about Eagles wins/losses and lack of playoff success – including under dear old Big Daddy Reid – for the last TWENTY-FIVE years. Did you skip over all of that just to find a few nuggets about bad Chip?
Well, you ascribe the worst drafts to Roseman without a ton of evidence — Reid clearly had tons of personnel control those two years. And those drafts weren’t as bad after the first four rounds (the convenient cutoff) which may have been where Reid let Roseman make the picks, as those may have been more off the scouting reports than players Reid looked at closely, who knows. The team explicitly gave Roseman a lot more control over the 2012 draft, and there is no way on earth they do that if Roseman was primarily responsible for the first four rounds in 2010 and 2011. I mean, it was pretty clearly Juan Castillo who fell in love with Casey Matthews and likely forced that pick.
Reid did lots of good stuff, but the wheels were coming off by the time he hired Castillo as DC. The coaching staff was pretty bad by that point — Reid’s biggest success early on, and his biggest failure late. Obviously when you get to add in a couple of awful years at the end, the overall record will look worse. The Eagles were a playoff caliber team from 2000 through 2010 though. That is sustained success the likes of which the Eagles had really never seen.
I think Kelly just had a really bad year as coach — much worse than the previous two. Maybe that was trying to stick to Kelly the GM’s offseason plan too long, but he couldn’t fix it. He could well do better in SF, but a lot will depend on Kaepernick. But the biggest mistakes were Kelly’s, not Roseman’s.
Roseman’s drafts are awful if you count the 2010 and 2011 drafts against him. But, Lurie has been pretty clear that those picks were not Roseman’s call and rather were Reid’s. If you look at 2012, the only year we KNOW for a fact Roseman had most of the control if not complete control, Roseman looks pretty good. 2013 and 2014 had a lot of Chips finger prints on them, but were still very good. 2015 looks pretty decent potentially going forward, but that was all Chip. Roseman was busy ordering helmets, foam fingers and blenders for the smoothies that year.
2010 Draft:
– Graham (Andy “fast-ball” pick for sure. Left Earl Thomas, JPP, Derrick Morgan, Mike Iupati, Pouncey, Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant (who was taken with our initial 24th pick), McCourtey, Kyle Wilson, Kareem Jackson, and Jerry Hughes on the board…ugh)
– Nate Allen (taken one pick ahead of TJ Ward, 5 in front of Gronkowski, left Lamar Houston, Daryl Washington, Sean Lee, Jason Worilds, Jerald Valdheer, Emmanuel Sanders and Brandon Spikes on the board…ew)
– Daniel Teo-Neshiem (Another Andy “Fast Ball”. Left Navorro Bowman, Eric Decker, Everson Griffen, Alteraun Verner and Jimmy Graham on the board…ew)
– Trevard Lindley (left Darrell Stuckley, Walter Thurmond, Aaron Hernandez (dodged that bullet), Dennis Pitta, Geno Atkins on the board…ugh)
– Keenan Clayton (Another Andy pick for sure), Mike Kafka (Andy again), Clay Harbor (we end up with the only TE that wasn’t a probowler from that draft somehow.)
Left Cam Chancellor and O’Brien Schoffield on the board
– Ricky Sapp (Andy loved his fast balls)
– Riley Cooper (taken before Antonio Brown)
– Charles Scott, Jamar Chaney, Jeff Owens Kurt Coleman (rounds 6-7 is where Roseman probably had the most say, and he unearthed some decent picks there)
2011
– Danny Watkins (this was a confirmed Andy pick. Taken over Cam Jordan, Jimmy Smith, Muhammed Wilkerson, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Bruce Carter, Orlando Franklin, Stefen Wiesnewski, Stephen Paea.)
– Jaiquaan Jarrett (Another confirmed Andy pick. Shane Vereen, Randall Cobb, Demarco Murray, Justin Houston all taken a few picks later.)
– Curtis Marsh (Chris Conte, Jordan Cameron available)
– Casey Matthews (Juan Castillo was obsessed with his dinner conversations)
– Alex Henery (Julius Thomas taken a few picks later)
– Dion Lewis (Richard Sherman and Niles Paul taken a few picks after)
– Julian Vandervelde
– Jason Kelce
– Brian Rolle
– Stanley Havili
– Greg Lloyd Jr
Overall the entire draft class for the NFL that year was pretty lacking. Just a poor quality draft all together as you can tell by the lack of names listed for “left on the board”. Butm the best pick (Kelce) was again a late rounder where Roseman would have been running the board.
2012: Rosemans only draft run by himself
– Cox (nailed it! No one else you would have rather taken at that spot.)
– Kendricks (Decent pick, but could have had Bobby Wagner who was taken one pick later or Lavonte David who was taken 12 picks later. Other than that, no one else you’d rather them have taken.)
– Curry (Only Russell Wilson – who we thought was going to last till our 3rd round pick was a better selection at that point in the 2nd round.)
– Foles (wanted Wilson, Reid pulled the trigger on Foles. Not a bad pick overall. Slight miscalculation that Seattle wouldn’t take Wilson with them already investing so much in QBs by Howie.)
– Boykin (nailed that pick at the end of the 4th round)
– Dennis Kelly, Marvin McNutt, Brandon Washington, Bryce Brown (a couple lottery tickets in the 6-7 rounds. Kelly has stuck with the team, Bryce was turned into a 4th round pick expertly by Roseman.
Pretty damn good draft for running his first one fully.
2013
– Lane Johnson (best OT of the first round. Kelly wanted Dion Jordan)
– Zach Ertz (great pick)
– Bennie Logan (great pick)
– Matt Barkley (good value at top of 4th round even if he didn’t pan out. No one else of note was taken that entire round, except Alex Okafor)
– Earl Wolff (flashed potential, career ended by injuries. No on else of note taken the rest of that round.)
– Joe Kruger, Jordan Poyer, David King (lottery pick 7th rounders)
Another stellar draft headed mostly by Roseman.
2014 (Chip has a lot more say)
– MS2 (that’s all on Howie. Miscalculated thinking one of our 6 targets would be there and GB stunned us by jumping ahead of us to get Ha-Ha. Could have taken Jason Verrett, Deonne Buchannon, Kelvin Benjamin, Jimmy Ward, Bradley Roby, Bridgewater or Carr)
– Chip traded up for Matthews after releasing Jackson and needing a WR (good pick, but Allen Robinson and Jarvis Landry would have been available at our original pick)
– Josh Huff (Chip pick all the way. John Brown and Moncrief were on the board)
– Jaylen Watkins
– Taylor Hart (Chip had to be talked out of drafting him in the third)
– Beau Allen (Roseman again finding value in 7th round)
Another decent draft, mostly on Howie. Except for MS2 pick which could still come around now that Chip is gone, it was an OK draft.
So in the two years that Roseman had the most say in who we drafted we took Cox, Kendricks, Curry, Foles, Boykin, Dennis Kelly, Bryce Brown, Lane Johnson, Zach Ertz, and Bennie Logan. If it’s more of those types of drafts I’ll be very happy with Roseman’s awful drafting.
Chip should have stayed true to what made him successful with a mobile QB.. Not that repetitive accuracy statue QB.. Shady covered up alot for Eagles running game turning what would be loss of yards into positives.. DJax it isnt about the TDs with that guy sometimes its the position he gets you into score.. Where is the rest of the team during the playoffs? Always comes down to the QB pulling the trigger i see it n that trigger got traded to Rams.. Chip wanted a 1 cut runner but he tweaked the scheme a little when what was working before suited that 1 cut.. Check ChipWagons post to prove it
http://chipwagon.typepad.com/eagles/2016/01/where-did-it-all-go-wrong.html
He should have stayed true to his past years playbook — the offense got simplified a lot this year even over his past years, and the OL moves meant that was a weakness which was not accounted for at all with the scheme.
And given that simple playbook you are betting everything on the execution being awesome, and it was far, far from that — false starts, missed blocks, drops, you name it. It was on Kelly to fix the problems (maybe slow down the tempo until your team can execute, then speed it up only later as they get more comfortable), or run out of center a lot more often (since without the packaged plays there is so much less sense about running out of shotgun). It seemed Kelly picked the wrong things to be dogmatic about this year.
Shady didn’t cover up much for a horrid OL in the beginning of last year, though he likely would have done better than Murray did this year. But if Murray is the guy you have — run from under center, for goodness’ sake.
Those are mistakes he could easily rebound from though. He certainly did a better job as coach earlier on, and he could recapture some of that for sure. I don’t think Kelly’s ideas are all that bad, but I think he picked the wrong parts of his scheme to compromise on this year.
what do people think about trading barwin. i just dont see him as a de in this system. i really like him as a sam lb or a 3rd down pass rushing de, but that is not worth 6.7 mil. however, he is one of my favorite eagles and is amazing in the community. it would suck to lose him but is he really worth his price to us this year
What are you offering? Who will replace the leadership on the team?
I’m 100% willing to deal with Barwin in a split role between DE and SAM at his salary because he’s one of the absolute best people on this team.
But what are you offering?
idk who would replace him as a leader but 6.7 million is a lot of money for what is essentially a role player in this scheme. i also think he could be worth a 4th to a 3-4 team in need of a jack olb. so the question is: is barwin’s leadership and production on defense worth 6.7 million dollars and a 4th round pick
Color me optimistic, but I think I can get enough value out of him at DE if we keep a good rotation between Graham, Curry, Barwin, and Smith.
We can easily create about $37mil in cap space this year. So, the question is, what else are you going to spend that $5-6mil on if you trade Barwin?
Also, are you completely satisfied with going into the year with only Graham and Curry as DEs (two unproven but talented players) and only Kiko/Kendricks at OLB (two injury prone players who haven’t played well as late)?
I’m inclined to keep Barwin around
I need a really good offer in order to move Barwin.
Yea, a 4th is basically meaningless to me. You have a 30% chance of finding a decent but upgradeable player in the mid 4th round, and a very slim chance of getting anything close to Barwin in return. And, I’m just not sure that we’re going to need that $6mil all that much with the amount of cap space we can create by cutting a few players like Cooper, Ryans and Sanchez.
Now if we get offered a 3rd, or a starting guard in a player for player swap and can use that extra $6mil to make a splash on someone like Alshon Jeffery, then I’m all ears. But, I think Barwin is too valuable on the field (with all the question marks we have on defense right now) and extremely valuable as a locker room leader needed to set the tone for a new regime to just trade for the sake of trading.
Chicago is tagging Jeffrey, so that’s out of my head.
But me screaming “FUCK” at the top of my lungs when Jeffrey went one pick in front of us in the draft was a fun afternoon.
I say we wait until Schwartz gets to analyze how he would like to use him or not use him in his system. But if we get a 4th round offer than that would be tough for us to pass up.
If the value is right for a LB not named Hicks then I would trade them. I would prefer to trade Kiko and keep Barwin.
Kiko gets paid less than 1M this year. Id like to keep him to see if he can return to form in a 43
Correct. Cheap guy to keep around.
I think we need to draft a LB anyway, no matter what happens
If you’re going to fix the D by getting it back to a 4-3, you’re going to need more 4-3 LBs.
It seems like we were just here; needing LBs who fit a 3-4.
I think Hicks can play any spot in a 43. Kiko won DROY at WILL(assuming he’s finally healthy) and MK was drafted to play SAM. And all we have behind them is Meco(MIKE).
I think Barwin could end up being the odd man out, esp at that price. We have Curry, Graham and MSII at DE.
I absolutely cannot have Kendricks at SAM. He’s a full 6 or 7 inches shorter than the textbook SAM, Carlos Emmons.
Very true. I was reminded above.
Funny how we keep finding warts on all of our LBs.
Yeah Kiko being healthy would fix a lot of things.
We need someone to cover Jordan Reed, Witten and Larry Donnell. We have a division of dynamic TEs which is why I think a S might be the best option.
Would you take a flyer on the LB who tore his ACL? Guy is a stud.
The ND kid? Not in round 1 and even if we pick up a 2nd rounder he won’t be there either.
MK played SAM as a rookie but remember the Castillo defense inverted the names.
Yes he’s cheap but he hasn’t been good. He still has a small sample size but if he doesn’t get it together this year then he’s worth nothing.
Only one way to find out. Play him.
Gotta outplay the guys in front of you first.
Unless you’re playing Barwin at SAM………that ain’t going to be hard given the roster right now.
Barwin would be the best SAM LB we have right now. Kiko if he can’t regain his 2013 form is a backup WILL/MIKE.
That’s more of an indictment on Kiko than a compliment for Barwin. Plus he tweeted something out about having his hand in the dirt; so I think he’s going to DE>
That’s going to be a lot of money to play a backup.
There is a lot of running around full out asked of our DEs. There will be a ton of snaps for Graham, Barwin, Curry (if we keep him), and Smith II.
True but I wont be surprised if Barwin is traded if we sign Curry. I like the guy, but I know Howie is looking at that 7.3M
Put me down for “he is here next year” if you’re keeping score.
I hope so.. he’s one of my favorite players. Best hair on the team too
Hicks at MIKE, MK at SAM and kiko at WILL
And every TE has just scored 3 TDs on the mayor of munchkin land at SAM. Kendricks is too small to play over there, he’d get murdered.
Yea Kendricks has to be a WILL if you want to use him effectively.
Fair enough. I assumed SS was going to cover the TE. But I get your point.
We don’t really have a SS right now unless we sign one or we move Jenkins to SS.
That is going to be an interesting position to fill in the offseason.
This is why I think Thurmond is out a S. I don’t know if Jenkins is better at Free or Strong. He plays around the LOS and he covers wrs and TEs.
I like Cash from Duke. Both of the Bengals Safeties are going to be FA
Thurmond is going to get paid corner money and usually misses game. His work he this year was great, but I can’t invest in 2nd contract for him with confidence.
Guy is a tackling liability. I also don’t want to see Reynolds or Maragos play S while we are talking about the position
Reggie Nelson is old so I don’t think he’s going to be a target. Iloka might be but I really have no clue if he’s good. I’m not sure if Cash will be available in the 3rd round for us.
Iloka is good.
Kendricks can run really well to the play. You’re supposed to be a run AND hit guy at WIL, but I’m not sure if I can actually expect Kendricks to make any tackles.
Kiko was injured last year. I think we see a much better player this year.
I think Barwin will surprise a lot of people as a 4-3 DE. He played with his hand in the dirt quite a bit in the past couple years and when he got a chance to rush he did some good things. In fact, when we played a lot more nickel and dime looks (4 down lineman) in 2014, he put up some great sack numbers. This year we mostly stayed in base and he was asked to cover a lot and his numbers went way back down.
I’m also looking forward to seeing him use that spin move with all the space the wide 9 will create for him.
With Graham’s ability as a 4-3 DE unclear at this point (haven’t seen him play there in a while and he was good but not great when we did), Curry’s ability as an every down DE unclear since we haven’t seen him do it yet either, and no other true 4-3 DEs on the roster, I think you have to keep Barwin.
Add in the versatility he provides as a SLB and I think it’s a no brainer. Between Kendricks, Hicks and Kiko all having an extensive injury history and Kiko uncertain to ever regain his ability and trust in his knee (he could go all Stewart Bradley on us and never recover fully), I think we’d be dumb to trade Barwin.
Not that everybody is this athletic, but Robert Mathis played some good DE at 235 lbs. Barwin is 265.
Barwin is plenty big to play DE in this scheme. Especially given that the use of the wide 9 means the DE is often used to set the edge, which is the same job Barwin had as 3-4 OLB in our previous scheme. And, Barwin will never be Jevon Kearse, but he’s plenty athletic to get 8-10 sacks as a DE and provide versatility in coverage and as a SLB as needed.
DEs are far too important in this scheme to go into the season with just Graham and Curry with no one (unless you count MSII) behind them.
You’re damn right he’ll never be Kearse; you ever see Barwin taking multiple drives off because he’s standing on the sideline with nagging injuries after spending 5 minutes rolling around on the ground like he got shot by a sniper.
Haha…I hated that about Kearse. Dude always look like he just sustained the most awful career ending injury and then would be back out there two plays later.
I believe they keep him on the books at his current salary for, at the least, this year. As Jernst said below Barwin has played with his hand in the dirt in pass rushing formations and also played DE in college. Trent Cole played DE very well at 6’3 and 270 lbs so I have confidence that Connor can definitely play DE at 6’4 and 264 lbs. I actually like the idea of him playing DE at that size with the skills to occasionally drop into coverage if needed.
It might depend on whether we resign Curry or not. It would also have to be a trade, not a release — that is a $3 million difference due to guaranteed salary (6.1 savings with trade, 3.1 with release which is not worth it for a player like Barwin).
Obviously not a release
A random thought sitting around in my head.
The new personnel guy:
A few dopes like Reuben Frank are still beating up Howie for being a guy that “nobody wants to work for”, but they might not be able to get anybody of quality until after the draft is over. There are a few teams that hired new GMs, but most of the scouts and middle personnel management guys don’t get fired until the day after the draft ends because people don’t want any of their draft board info out there. We might not get our guys until after the draft.
Reub turned into La Canfora.
Most likely hire pre-draft is either going to be a guy not currently with a team or a senior personnel exec that works in an advisory role with his current team but doesn’t directly run the college or pro personnel department.
Is the general consensus on here that howie sucks? Because I still think he can be a decent gm
I like Howie, but I’m crushed that he’s responsible for Smith at 26.
yeah obviously not a good pick. wish we could have traded back at that point. also think smith will be better now that chip isnt the coach. chip obviously had a vendetta against smith
We traded back from 22 if I remember right. There were some players that are now studs left at 26. Knowing Chip they probably weren’t on the board because of culture fits or whatever.
should have just wasted that pick on bridgewater
And what’s unreal about that is Bridgewater was a guy who I was obsessed with drafting……………until Foles had the mega-year in 2013.
probably why kelly got rid of him. screwed us out of a good qb draft
Or Carr.
wow we could have had so many different studs at that spot. buchanan, benjamin, roby, allen robinson (hindsight first round pick quality) easley, joel bitonio, mewhort, richburg. and many more. god i wish we spent that pick on an o lineman now
I wish we would have traded down again AND gotten one of the guys you mentioned.
If we’re playing hindsight, how about Allen Robinson, Jordan, Matthews, and Trai Turner instead of Smith II, Matthews, and Huff?
that would be an unreal draft. how about allen robinson, bitonio/mewhort and turner, we would be so set on the ol
F it.
How about Jerry Rice instead of Kevin Allen in the first round in 1985?
The mega-reach of him a full round to a round and a half early is SOOOOOOOOOOO unlike Howie. I was totally stunned when Howie took credit for that pick.The impulse there was unreal.
Except that pass rushers were all completely overdrafted compared to the pre-draft ratings — so that likely changed Roseman’s value rankings, since those would be based on what other teams would actually do versus what the Mel Kipers of the world think. He was probably tied with a bunch of other second-tier prospects, and they took the position of need (after trading down some, at least). I don’t think there is any way Smith would have lasted to even the Jordan Matthews pick, really.
Then you might need to let others deplete the position and make yourself stronger at another spot as a result.
I’m sure if that same reporter asked if he was responsible for Jordan Matthews he would have said yes too — he said he was responsible for everything that happened while he was GM.
Still, that was obviously someone the Eagles had relatively high on the board — but I guess Chip didn’t really agree with it. I’m sure they were expecting one of those other six players to drop. Once that happened, and Roseman thought we could get Matthews in the second round, he figured he could use the opportunity to get another highly rated player (even if taken a little too soon).
We’ll see — he’s probably better than he’s shown so far, as he’s been given next to no opportunity. I think about 130 snaps this entire year, with 35 of them in the last game, where he actually did flash a little bit.
Another “FUCK” moment when watching the draft; New Orleans jumping in front of us to take Cooks.
yeah i dont think ive ever been so enticed by a wr pre draft (who was not an obvious top 10 pick). his college tape was unreal
And my mouth was on overtime telling people he was going to vastly better than Beckham because Jerry Reece overdrafts busts in round 1 all the time.
I knew Beckhma was going to be good. I wanted him but knew we weren’t getting him. I hated watching the Giants grab him. I thought he was better than Watkins coming out.
I would have been happy with Cooks in the first or Allen Robinson in the 2nd. I wanted Bryant over Huff.
Glad we didn’t draft marquis Lee
I’m pretty sure the second I hear the Giants are interested in a guy that I’m clearly able to see that guy as a crappy football player. I think Beckham is cheating by having the fingers JPP lost grafted onto his own hands to illegally assist his pass catching.
I think he’s just taking the high road. If people believe he was solely responsible for the smith pick then they must believe he was solely responsible for cutting DeSean. We all know that was Chip.
If you are goung to place sole responsibility on Howie whike he had the GM title he had a lot of successes.
Lane Johnson
Malcolm Jenkins
Zach Ertz
Fletcher Cox
Mychal Kendricks
Vinny Curry
Nick Foles
Brandon Boykin
Jordan Matthews
Jason Kelce
Bennie Logan
Connor Barwin
In my book that outways Danny Watkins, MSIII, and Josh Huff
I’m going to go out on a limb and say Watkins was all Reid and Huff was all Chip.
MM:
Not a limb.
Reid promised Howard Mudd he could have an O-lineman at the top of the 2011 draft.
And Mudd absolutely loved Watkins coming out of Baylor — especially his dominant play at the SR Bowl. (as did lots of teams, strictly in terms of talent-performance)
The Watkins pick — given his age — was “a win now” decision by Reid and Mudd.
Turned out, Watkins was a pathological fraudster.
And who is “you” in “If you are goung to place sole responsibility?”
Did you mean to say “people” there or do you think I’m ragging Howie?
People
Good, I’m generally a big Howie advocate.
fletcher cox at 12 is unreal in terms of value. dude is probably worth two firsts now
draft was stacked
As much as we all love Cox (pause), there are several other dominant DTs in the game right now like Aaron Donald, Dontari Poe, Marcel Dareus, Kawan Short, Geno Atkins, Gerald McCoy, and Jurrell Casey. Not all those guys were top 12 picks.
only one of those guys id take over cox is aaron donald. in terms of age/performance
So let’s get this straight, it’s OK to criticize Howie when
* He wasn’t responsible for the pick but he was the GM
* He picks a good player but it’s only because some other team picked a bad player first, making the good player available
* He makes only a GOOD pick, not a great pick
* He picks an All Pro, but other All Pros exist in the universe that were picked later than the one he picked
* He picks a good player but other good players are picked after that player, some of whom are better
That’s a hefty set of rules for how we should evaluate Howie. You might want to simplify it, because then it’s actually possible to compare to what other GMs do, and draw logical, sane conclusions.
My suggestion: judge him strictly on the quality of guys picked, traded for and signed. Everything else is you just throwing up bullshit covered smoke and mirrors.
Can you please highlight where I specifically said Howie Roseman is a horrible GM? Further, could you elaborate on that crazy set of parameters you think I follow?
I’m actually very ambivalent towards Howie, but apparently if I’m not gushing over him I’m must be some unreasonable jerk.
It’s just so impossible to say which guys he’s reponsible for. Some picks have been terrible, some good — the problem being you just don’t know what’s going on in FO.
eh…That’s just okay imo.
Had the Dolphins taken Lane Johnson like every one thought they would, we could be stuck with mega bust Dion Jordan. Kendricks was a 2nd round pick in a LB loaded class. Remember, Bobby Wagner and Lavonte David were both picked after Kendricks and both have been far superior players.
Jordan Matthews again – good pick but that was a loaded class. Jarvis Landry and Allen Robinson were both there in the 2nd and the Huff pick was awful value.
Curry – good pick, but we really haven’t gotten great value from him.
We’ve brought in some good free agents like Jenkins, Thurmond, and Barwin but we’ve also had a ton of duds – especially in the secondary.
Compared with other teams in the league over the past 3-5 years, I’d say our drafting and free agent signings has been very sub par and mediocre at best.
I think you’re being a little unfair. Sure we could have drafted Dion Jordan, but we didn’t. We drafted Lane who was the best OT from that draft. So I don’t see how that’s even a relevant critique since you’re critiquing Roseman not on what he actually did, but what he could have (in your mind) done, but didn’t.
There were two better options other than Kendricks available that round at LB that we passed on. But, Kendricks was far from a bad pick.
Jordan Matthews was another good pick that you’re critiquing on hindsight. Marquise Lee, Davonte Adams, and Cody Lattimore, were all also taken in the second round. Of the 6 WRs taken in that round only Robinson and Landry have performed better and not by a whole lot.
Curry was a great pick. Here’s the list of guys taken after him:
Kalechi Osemele
LaMichael James
Casey Hayward
Rueben Randall
Dwayne Allen
Trumaine Johnson
Josh Robinson
Ronnie Hillman
Devier Posey
TJ Graham
Bryan Anger (punter)
So how did we not get good value from that pick again? You can’t fault a GM for making a good pick in a sea of underwhelming players because he failed to create an all-pro out of thin air.
Right, I hear you, but you are also citing those guys as great picks. They’re good picks, but not GREAT picks like Carolina with Josh Norman, Kawan Short, etc or Of course GMs will always miss out on good prospects and it’s very easy to play the ‘what if’ game.
I’m saying, in comparison to a lot of other teams, we have been pretty sub par in the past 3-5 years.
WHY DONT WE HAVE 53 ALL PROS! FUCK THAT GUY!
Belichick drops the hammer!!!
That’s not at all what I was saying, but okay.
You are over simplifying things.
Ted Thompson and Ozzie Newsome are two of the most respected GMs in the NFL have done a worse job of adding talent to their teams over the last 3-5 years than Howie did. Plus those guys have not changed coaches/schemes.
There is also no guarentee we draft Jordan. If we did we’d have no idea how he’d gave panned our here.
Here’s the thing. They may have missed on Smith, but if the Eagles didn’t take him then very soon after he was gone then another team was going to miss on Smith. The Cardinals at 27, Patriots at 29, and Redskins at 34 were all reported by their respective beat writers to be targeting Smith at their draft slots. DE/OLBs with athleticism are coveted. Chip reportedly wanted Matthews to be taken at 22 but Roseman was able to trade down, pick up a 3rd, take Smith and then trade a 4th to move up and get Matthews. We don’t know who the Eagles would have taken in the 2nd if they had taken Matthews in the 1st but all in all Roseman’s plan was better. I’m still not convinced that Marcus Smith is a total bust anyway. He was raw coming out, obviously. It’s your job as a coach to develop him, not immediately treat him as persona non grata because he was “Howie’s guy”.
If other people wanted to take him that early, you have to let them.
And I’m not slamming the door shut on him not being a bust either, but taking him earlier than late 2nd / early 3rd screams reach. It’s upsetting that we could have gotten more.
Exactly. And, let’s be honest. It’s not like we passed on a bunch of world beaters anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NFL_draft
People always complain about bust picks but always fail to look at who was drafted afterward to see what was actually available.
Also, we weren’t going to take a QB in the first round after the year Foles had just had. And, as much as I like Carr and Bridgewater, I still haven’t seen them do all that much that makes me think we’d be set for the next decade at QB had we gone that route.
Otherwise, we passed on Kelvin Benjamin and Bradley Roby to take a chance on MS2. It’s not that egregious.
The same thing was said about Danny Watkins
Yes, it could. I still don’t think taking a 46-year old in the 1st round is a good idea though.
I don’t think there was a run on OG the way there was on pass rushers.
Plus from all accounts, it wasn’t Watkins’ ability that was a bust — it was his desire to play. Haven’t heard anything like that about Smith, though sometimes that can only be seen in retrospect.
Project Smith with a different coach in a different system coming out of Louisville.
For example, the Cardinals under then-DC Todd Bowles.
I’m thinking, in that scenario, Smith does okay his rookie year . . . like Markus Golden did this year for the Cards.
Why? ‘Cause the Cardinals really do scheme to the strength of their players.
They don’t just say that at the press conferences.
The good thing about moving Barwin to DE is that he wouldn’t look like Trent Cole wihen Sean McD kept dropping him back. The bad? He is our most reliable LB right now and we might reduce him to a rotational DE?.
F McDermott.
You were just trolling for a Media Mike comment, weren’t you.
Nope just flashes of awful memories.
And he got one!
49ers(Chip) hired ex-Browns DC Jim O’Neil as DC. A sampling of comments by Browns fans:
Ok. Wow.
Please let San Fran be on our schedule next year. Wow!
There’s no way. I’ll run to Vegas to bet the under on their wins.
Chip Kelly may be insane
If i’m a fA in Sf i’m telling my agent to get me outta there.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/san-francisco-49ers/
Who do you want?
hahaha time to go shopping boys
we could united the celek bros – they could be like the wonder twins.
That might not be a guy they let leave.
boone if he doesnt command more than 5 mil. boldin if he doesnt command more than 4 at this stage in his career. would be a great veteran for our young wrs to learn from. and while he doesnt have any burst left hes still tough and has great hands.
I dig Boone as well, but D3 had mentioned that Boone was a bit of a malcontent that you might not want around a first year head coach.
And Boldin would be my top target there. He’d bring some much needed grit to that group.
how much money do you think he gets?
I like this thinking here.
Someone worse than Billy D? That can’t be..oh wait Rob Ryan is still alive.
San Francisco would have to actually score in order to have 64-60 games…
wins the day
lol OregonDucker is already on NinersNation fluffing up this hire. Was wondering how this would get spun by the fanboys.
BC:
disappointing to see that.
not that OD’s over at NinersNation.
but that he’s fluffing for Kelly.
the last month of the 2015 season, OD was putting out some very harsh, single-sentence comments here lambasting the great one.
So has he left us? And did we ever rule out that he was not in fact actually Chip Kelly?
Chip is very strict about his system. He’ll hire anyone willing to run it.
My theory is that back in 2014 Chip had an offer on the table to trade up from 22 to the top 10 which involved giving up a future 1st and probably a 2nd in order to draft ODB.
Howie prevented it from happening.
Howie was in love with Marcus Smith just like he was in love with Brandon Graham and Jaquan Jarrett. Loved what he saw and decided he would take him not matter what.
Jordan Matthews, Josh Huff, Jaylen Watkins and rest of the draft class were clearly Chip’s picks.
I’m a little upset that we didn’t use a 3rd rounder to trade up for Ha-Ha. Especially considering that Huff sucks major ass.
Pretty well established that the coaching staff pushed for Jarrett simply because they needed a safety and he was the top player on their board at the position.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
You forget that Chip wanted Taylor Hart in the third.
I don’t get what’s so absurd about it. ODB was clearly Chip’s favorite player in the draft. The explosiveness, the height, the route running. Everything Chip wanted in a receiver. I bet Chip was willing to give up the farm to go get him.
but that doesn’t mean the other team will take the trade…
Why not? Unless it’s a franchise QB, I think any pick is available.
Because sometimes the other team doesn’t take the trade.
Kelly’s love for ODB became a popular narrative only after Beckham began playing and putting up huge numbers.
I can’t find any published material saying Kelly was hot for ODB above all others in 2013.
Probably another Gamble hit-job with the media.
in fact he doesn’t match chip’s measurables at all.
The quote came from a pregame PC where coaches blow smoke up the asses of opposing players.
“Eli Manning is the greatest QB of all time”
“Cullen Jenkins is the best DT in NFL history”
“I’d let Prince Amukamara run my village anyday”
“Look I had ODB as the top rated WR in the draft”
“Cullen Jenkins is the best DT in NFL history”
“I’d let Prince Amukamara run my village anyday”
_______________
red hot tonight
The height? ODB is 5’11.
With the hair
ok
What’s your theory on Area 51?
Wasnt it reported Chip wanted Matthews in the first round n Hart in the 3rd? Roseman talked him out of it saying could get them later.
yes
thank god we still got hart lol
i bet roseman would have made a better pick than huff if chip werent here
What about the perfect measurable, ex QB, perfect off the field guy with limited ‘real’ pass rush skills and raw as fuck say that was a Howie pick? Who’s drafting and player evaluation MO does that match? Sure he was ‘in charge’ of the draft, and has to ‘take responsibility’ but Howie was not there like some crazy madman picking Smith while Chip screamed no.
He saw a guy that was explosive off the point of attack, high motor, coach-able, and someone who would probably be taken in the early 2nd round.
Great theory, except for the fact that the only QBs taken in the first round prior to us taking MS2 were Blake Bortles at #3 overall and Johnny Manziel who was taken with the pick we traded to Cleveland.
It’s been reported multiple times that we had 6 players targeted with that 1st rounder (Anthony Barr, ODB, Kyle Fuller, CJ Mosely, Brandon Cooks and Ha-Ha Clinton Dix). Cooks and Dix were both still on the board at #20 with us drafting 22nd. Howie thought one of those two would still be there and then there was a trade up in front of us and both were gone by our pick.
We traded back 4 spots (missing on Manziel, Dee Ford, Darqueze Dennard, and Jason Verrett) and picked up an extra 3rd rounder to do so which was great. At that point we tried to trade down further, but no one was looking to move up and we panicked and over drafted MS2. Sure we could have had Kelvin Benjamin, but we went with the DE in a draft that was light on DE/OLB and chock full of WRs. As for drafting Bridgewater or Carr. In hindsight, that would have been great. But, no one was going to draft a QB in the first round after the year Foles just had.
Kelvin Benjamin led the NFL in drops in 2014; I’m glad we didn’t take him.
Bad drops too. Like drops in the endzone bad.
And supplemented his stats with garbage stats. 130 of his yards and 2 of his TDs were vs. us after we stopped playing hard in that blowout win.
We had a few of those this year.
He could have had the greatest season of drops in history if he were on the field for the Eagles last year.
exactly. So when people lambast Howie for taking MS2 I always ask them, “knowing what we all knew then, that following Foles’ magnificent year, the QBs were reasonably taken off the board in the first round, who else would you have rather he took?”
Sure, it would have been better to take any of those other guys at this point. But, missing out on Kelvin Benjamin or Bradley Roby is seriously not that big of a deal. People act like that pick set us back 5 years.
I’m much more concerned with what happened afterwards. The trade up for Matthews was fine (we only gave up a 4th round selection.) But, we could have used our two 3rd rounders on any combo of John Brown, Donte Moncrief, Trai Turner, Michael Schoffield, Davonte Freeman or Martavius Bryant. Instead we took Josh Huff and traded our other 3rd for 4th and 5th round selections that we used on Jaylen Watkins and Taylor Hart.
And Smith was a guy I really liked a lot going into that draft. I just didn’t want to take him that early.
Joel Bitonio, Dominique Easley, or maybe they should have been more aggressive and traded up for Ha-ha Clinton Dix.
Yea…I’d take all those guys over MS2 right about now. But, again…they’re hardly world beaters. Bitonio had a really bad year in pass protection and then ended up on IR, Easley was functional and then ended up on IR for the second season in a row last year. And, we had Cox and Logan already, as well as Thornton, Hart, and Allen so it wasn’t worth really taking another DT in the first round unless he was clearly heads and tails above the other potential picks, which he wasn’t.
As for being more aggressive trading up for Dix. New Orleans spent an extra third going up ahead of us to get Cooks. So Arizona wasn’t going to trade with us for less than a third. Since we got an extra 3rd to trade back a couple spots after Dix was off the board, it seems like a 3rd was the going rate. Would you rather have Dix and no 3rd round pick in that draft, or MS2 and TWO 3rd round picks. Plus its doubtful that GB was even interested in trading back and losing out on Dix. It takes two to tango, so to say.
You would have cried like a baby if we gave a third round pick to move up 2 spots.
1 of the things that was always odd with chip was just how transparent he was about who he liked in the draft. Remember reading that the saints basically knew which players the eagles were locked in on before the draft and used that against chip to trade up and snag Cooks.
Yea Chip had no time for slow playing his cards.
You hanging out with Chandler Jones and his synthetic marijuana right now? Just don’t end up half naked in a police station.
Well this is 100% grade A nonsense. You literally don’t have a damn clue what Howie values.
For one Graham was Howie’s first season as GM. Under a Coach who had personnel control. Graham wasn’t Howie pounding the table.
Jaquan was 100% Reid. As was Watkins. Reid has pretty much said as much.
Chip very well may have wanted to trade up. But trading a haul for a WR is incredibly stupid roster building. Just look at the Julio and Sammy Watkins trades.
Howie had targeted the group of 6. And he was right in where they would be valued. The problem was when it became obvious they were all going to be gone the price of moving up a couple picks had become legitimately insane.
Them trading back shows they weren’t madly in love with a player. Howie and chip both said they tried to trade out again, but there weren’t any good offers without dropping wayyyyy down in the draft. So they took a guy with good size, athleticism, who played a premium position.
Jaylen Watkins wasn’t a Chip guy.
So if you’re going to wildly speculate at least base your ridiculous hypotheticals in grounded reality. This whole thing is just captain hindsight bullshit. So either know what you’re talking about or stop.
It sounds like a fun idea to make shit up and then get mad at it.
Last year when Michael Mitchell played for the Panthers he had 4 interceptions, 3.5 sacks, and 8 passes defended.
Kurt Coleman’s numbers were clearly better and I’m not trying to take anything away from him. But I really don’t think he’s some diamond in the rough we let go. He was a solid safety that’s thriving in a great defense.
Amazing what great pressure up them middle and avoiding Josh Norman at all costs will do for balls getting thrown right to a safety.
And Kurt Coleman’s career ended here with this
http://image.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/width620/img/browns_impact/photo/11543507-mmmain.jpg
only highlight of richardson’s career
And only thing that really matters for Coleman as well.
Kurt Coleman bane of Rex Grossman.
I hated all the slack he got for that. He put himself in front of a moving truck and made the tackle. I believe Richardson was stopped short of a 1st down that play forcing Cleveland to punt.
In the picture, even without a helmet, he didn’t let go.
Our LBs could use toughness like that
DK:
Mitchell left Carolina after the 2013 season.
In 2014, Safety Roman Harper led the Panthers with 4 interceptions (team total of 14).
This season, Coleman had 7 INTs to lead the Panthers (24 total)
Doesn’t this really speak volumes to how bad our coaching was? Nate Allen too looked like he was on track to have a better season with Oakland before he tore his ACL.
Like Pat Chung
This is really good news.
https://twitter.com/LesBowen/status/692104143952019457
Wade Phillips was Buddy Ryan’s defensive coordinator from 86-88, until he was fired and Jeff Fisher was promoted from defensive backs coach to DC.
I did not know this.
I hope Wade Phillips wins a super bowl.
My personal favorite:
Ever since watching that NFL Films piece on Buddy Ryan, I have a whole new perspective on him.
Good or bad? I haven’t seen it yet.
Very good, very enlightening. I was a preteen/early teen during his years here and there’s a lot of subtext that I missed. This filled in a lot of gaps.
I would be amazed if they found a way to beat Cam. As much as it will hurt Media Mike, they have a comparable defense to Denver, which specialises in taking away short inside passes (what manning still does well) and Cam is on fire and such a challenge to contain for an entire game at less than 20 points that they would need to win the game.
its all about pressure, cam has like a weekend to find a wide open reciever, if they can pressure him it will make for a more watchable game
DK:
Phillips resigned from the Birds — not fired — to accept the Broncos DC position (1st time in 1989) under Dan Reeves.
Under Phillips, the ’89 Broncos went from 22nd to 3rd in total defense, and from 20th to 1st in Points-Against.
And the Broncos went to the Super Bowl (clobbered by the 49ers)
D3FB AKA Tyler A AKA Belicheck: what lineman are you high on thus draft, sorry if I missed where you may have said it. Im looking to watch some tape on them but really have no clue what Im looking. While still poor, I consider my self better at watching WR and to an extent DBs. Also with the new system it makes the draft pool so much more vast. Hard to hone in on mid/late players.
No paticular order more just grab bag off the top of my head style
Cody Whitehair
LaRaven Clark
Kyle Murphy
Joe Haeg
Landon Turner
Christian Westerman
Joe Thuney
Evan Boehm
Max Tuerk
The real question and perhaps Ill find out after I watch but how many of those would I let eat crackers in my bed?
Whitehair is a firggin stud. The only question is value. He’s 24 and a G. But he’s plug and play very good day 1. Comps to Zak Martin or Joel Bitino
Clark is 6’5 and has 36 inch arms. Good feet but playing in an Air Raid he’s not great at vertical sets. Big upside but has some refinement needed.
Murphy is long and the rare Stanford OL I like.
Haeg is going to be a good NFL G. Was the LT for Wentz.
Turner is just one hell of a football player. Reminds me of Laken Tomlinson/Larry Warford/Gabe Jackson.
Westerman is very physically gifted. Don’t think he’s got huge upside but should be a good G.
Thuney is a late day 3 guy. Has played all over. Probably not a starter but a great Swiss Army knife guy off the bench.
Boehm is a nasty C/G.
Tuerk is the lovechild of Lane and Kelce.
Media Mike, not to rain on your draft Wentz at 13 parade, but holy ish, Mayock and Charles Davis were slobbering all over him just now on NFL Network. They interviewed Garrett about drafting him at 4 as the heir apparent to Romo. They believe he will go top 10. Not that it means anything now, but I definitely see QBs being over drafted high this year.
Considering how hard it is to find a franchise qb, this makes sense.
Perhaps Lynch will drop and if not Hogan will be available at some point.
Hogan’s a total gamer. Love the guy.
His delivery is unorthodox, though. Elongated — which gives NFL-level DBs that extra split second to read his passes/break on the ball.
Regardless, I like Hogan a hell of a lot.
Im with you. I think the anticipation is there, the pocket presence, the surprise mobility and the size. Really starting to like him as a target. As for the throwing motion, if he can develop chemistry with receivers, I wonder how much it matters. For instance Rivers and Bridgewater have unorthadox deliveries but how much does it actually affect performance? Hard to tell I suppose unless we had clones of the two with better mechanics.
Mitchell . . . totally agree.
But I’m no scout.
Looking forward to seeing what T-Law and Belichick say
Mayock projected OLB Bud Dupre as a Top-10 pick in 2015.
And he loved Randy Gregory as the FIRST pass rusher off the board (who was actually Dante Fowler at 3rd overall . . . Gregory went 60th).
Mayock’s forgotten way more than I’ll ever know about football.
But sometimes he falls in love with guys. Same as GMs.
All i can remember about Dupree was a CRAZY fast first step. Like lightening covered in Crisco. Im not sure how he played this year but i was kinda disapointed the Eagles didnt draft him last year
“lightening covered in Crisco”
____________
is that original or borrowed?
great turn of phrase either way
Original. Do I place a “R” or “C” next to it. Haha
Here’s your refresher
http://scoutsnotebook.com/2015/01/13/delb-bud-dupree/
I think “falls in love with guys” is a serious understatement when referring to Mayock. One thing about scouting that I never understood is how these guys on TV can make grandious statements about a player and then admit they only watched 2 or 3 of their games on film. To me, that’s no different than political polls on TV telling who is leading the race for president before the election based on some phone calls to old people at home.
Except…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/business/media/10silver.html
Politicians were told there would be no math!
Former New York Giants safety Tyler Sash was found to have an extraordinarily high level of CTE when he died in September at the age of 27, The New York Times reported Tuesday.
Sash died from an accidental overdose of painkillers, and his family donated his brain to be studied for chronic traumatic encephalopathy. The Times reports that “representatives from Boston University and the Concussion Legacy Foundation notified the Sash family that CTE had been diagnosed in Tyler’s brain and that the disease, which can only be confirmed only posthumously, had advanced to a stage rarely seen in someone his age.”
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14655379/tyler-sash-former-new-york-giants-safety-had-high-level-cte
Next season is transition. . Im psyched for 2017 draft!!
I wonder how many other teams can brag that they have a former starter whom they released now starting on each Super Bowl team?
And defensive coordinator
[…] Senior Bowl Talk – Iggles BlitzOnly one QB here could be worth pick 13 and that is Carson Wentz from ND State. He is a good athlete. He has terrific size. I want to see how he does going up against top flight competition. I’m also curious to see how he does throwing the ball downfield. He has a good arm. I didn’t see much of a vertical game from him this year. The other QB I’ve become fascinated by is Kevin Hogan. He’s awkward, at times reminding me of Philip Rivers. But he has some athletic ability and played the last 4 years (seemed more like 10) in a pro style offense. He understands throwing the ball to the TE or the FB, as well as WRs. I think he might be a good fit in what I expect Pederson’s offense to be. […]
[…] Senior Bowl Talk – Iggles BlitzOnly one QB here could be worth pick 13 and that is Carson Wentz from ND State. He is a good athlete. He has terrific size. I want to see how he does going up against top flight competition. I’m also curious to see how he does throwing the ball downfield. He has a good arm. I didn’t see much of a vertical game from him this year. The other QB I’ve become fascinated by is Kevin Hogan. He’s awkward, at times reminding me of Philip Rivers. But he has some athletic ability and played the last 4 years (seemed more like 10) in a pro style offense. He understands throwing the ball to the TE or the FB, as well as WRs. I think he might be a good fit in what I expect Pederson’s offense to be. […]