Terrific Offseason
Posted: March 19th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 196 Comments »The Eagles have “won” the offseason a few times in the past. They made bold and exciting moves that drew lots of praise and attention, but they didn’t always lead to success on the field. The one big exception would be 2004, when adding Jevon Kearse and Terrell Owens put the team over the top.
The Eagles are getting a lot of praise for their moves this offseason, and rightfully so. Howie Roseman has done a brilliant job of making moves. Chris Wesseling, an excellent analyst for NFL.com, offers his thoughts.
Eagles executive vice president Howie Roseman couldn’t have played this any better, starting with his pre-free agency plan to lock up prime players Lane Johnson, Zach Ertz, Vinny Curry and Malcolm Jenkins to below-market deals. Having solidified his nucleus, Roseman jettisoned ex-coach Chip Kelly’s mistakes, moving up in the first and fourth rounds of the draft by finding takers for DeMarco Murray, Byron Maxwell and Kiko Alonso.
Franchise quarterback is the most precious commodity in the NFL. With no avenue to secure one on the open market, Roseman re-signed Sam Bradford for upside, adding high-end backup Chase Daniel as premium insurance. It’s a creative approach to a quarterback problem faced by a handful of teams every offseason. Not done yet, Roseman picked up the underrated duo of Rodney McLeod and Leodis McKelvin for the secondary while adding Jim Schwartz-favorite Nigel Bradham at linebacker. How could Roseman have played the market any better? Grade: A+
One of the things that makes this offseason different from others is that this wasn’t all about going after the shiniest objects. Roseman’s first focus was locking up his own players. He got young high picks to sign extensions (Johnson, Ertz and Curry). Those type of players make up the core of the team. Keeping them is critical.
Roseman then signed Jenkins to an extension. When you hit a home run in free agency as the Eagles did with Jenkins, you want to keep that guy around. Jenkins is a terrific player, but also a leader on and off the field.
The Eagles had a lot of uncertainty at the QB position. Roseman signed Sam Bradford to an extension. The deal gives the Eagles stability at QB, but didn’t lock them into a bad contract. Chase Daniel signed, giving the team a good backup and also someone who can help teach Doug Pederson’s offense to the other players. Even though Daniel came from another team, his addition helps stabilize the QB position. He was more valuable to the Eagles than any other team in the league because of his experience with Pederson.
Roseman did spend big money on a couple of free agents, adding OG Brandon Brooks and FS Rodney McLeod. Brooks is a player that a lot of teams had interest in so spending big on him made sense. If you pay for steak, make sure you get steak. McLeod played in a scheme similar to what the Eagles will run to that lessens his transition. And both players are in the prime of their career. The Eagles will get those players best years.
Nigel Bradham, Ron Brooks and Leodis McKelvin were all signed to reasonable deals. They each had a career best season while playing for Jim Schwartz in Buffalo so adding them at the right price made a ton of sense. One of the keys with players like this is that you are bringing them in to fill a role they can handle. Byron Maxwell got #1 CB money, but he wasn’t a #1 CB. He struggled when facing top receivers and not being able to cover them. That hurt his overall confidence. McKelvin might be a starter, but he won’t be expected to shut down receivers. He will be expected to play the way he has in the past.
Roseman is also getting praise for the players he got rid of. Maxwell wasn’t a bad player, but he had a bad contract. Apparently Schwartz wasn’t a big fan of Alonso, making him expendable. Murray had to go. He clearly didn’t want to be in Philly any longer and was going to be a problem if the team tried to keep him. Roseman managed to get rid of these guys and get improved draft position in return. That’s a creative solution to a complex problem.
Mark Sanchez was also dealt. He wasn’t a bad guy and didn’t have a bad contract, but he was a bad QB. Daniel sure feels like an upgrade. By trading Sanchez rather than cutting him, Roseman got the Eagles extra cap space. That was also a key in the other deals. Roseman’s moves gave the team more financial freedom.
The extra cap space allowed the Eagles to bring back CB Nolan Carroll and add WR Chris Givens. Carroll will compete for a starting role, while Givens gives the team a veteran WR with some speed. Not flashy moves, but they add depth and competition.
The Eagles still have holes. They have 9 draft picks (4 in the Top 100) to help build up the roster. The Eagles still have cap space. Roseman wants to sign star DL Fletcher Cox to a contact extension, but he has the flexibility to still look at veteran free agents.
Some people are frustrated that the Eagles haven’t been more aggressive in going after Nick Fairley or some other D-linemen. I think the old Howie Roseman might have done that. He was very aggressive and loved adding players with big names. Right now he’s being a smart shopper. The top players are off the market. You don’t overpay for the guys that are out there now. Roseman is trying to maximize his cap dollars and find good deals.
Building a team is a mixture of adding and subtracting players. You want to maximize your resources to build the best team you can. Roseman has done an excellent job to this point. There are moves left to make (draft picks and free agency). If Roseman does as well in the next 6 weeks as he’s done to this point, the Eagles will be in good shape heading into the 2016 season.
_
The Wesseling article was even better because he flamed the Giants for throwing boatloads of money at guys who aren’t event close to worth it.
Called this months and months ago.
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/711294402740817923
hmmm.. rg3 looks like a cartoon version of eddie murphy…. lol am i right?
Shame their ages aren’t reversed for the eventual RG3 Biopic.
I can’t look at that picture and not hear the Eddie laugh now.
I was just listening to Delirious this week and that made me think of my favorite short from elementary school…Hit By A Car
“I was just walking down the street…minding my own business…minding my own business…just walking down the street minding my own business…and this truck…yeah, this truck comes around the corner and bam….”
Just happened to watch the dinner scene from Nutty Professor today.
“Where did the car hit you? In the ass? Well how in the f— do you cross the street?”
He fits right in with Cleveland. Stinko QB, Stinko Organization.
Not sure its a lock since they are apparently calling around to get opinions of his work ethic from giys who worked with him in the past… Probably won’t get many glowing recommendations… But at least Cleveland interest is legit, where the Jets just brought him in as added leverage for the Fotzpatrik talks
“The Eagles still have holes. They have 9 draft picks (4 in the Top 100) to help build up the roster.”
On that note
Round 1 Pick 8: Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame (A)
Round 3 Pick 14: Jaylon Smith, OLB/ILB, Notre Dame (A+)
Round 3 Pick 16: Jonathan Williams, RB, Arkansas (A-)
Round 4 Pick 2: Connor McGovern, OG, Missouri (A-)
Round 5 Pick 14: Ronald Blair, DE, Appalachian State (A)
Round 5 Pick 25: Ben Braunecker, TE, Harvard (A-)
Round 6 Pick 13: Adam Gotsis, DT/DE, Georgia Tech (B-)
Round 7 Pick 12: Deiondre’ Hall, CB, Northern Iowa (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Derrick Kindred, SS, TCU (B+)
Bookend tackle, shot at a superstar OLB, strong RB prospect, quality guard, rotation DE, blocking TE, possible rotation DT, big framed corner prospect, and a violent mo fo at safety to give a shot.
I like it but even with the injury some team will take Smith in Round 2.
With the 5th year for a steep discount, why shouldn’t some team take a shot on him at the end of round one?
These guys (star talents with major baggage via injury or off field) generally seem to fall farther than anyone expects.
Jaylon Smith is on another level talent wise, but if it’s true that he has potential nerve damage, I could see him in Round 3.
Philly would be a good fit for him considering the resources that have been invested in sports science.
Love McGovern in the 4th, Smith won’t be there in the 3rd, but howzabout Carl Nassib ?
Smith could legitimately go anywhere from the teens to UDFA.
I would bet against the latter, but you have a point. I was just expressing my expectation.
They are definitely going to draft a QB in some round. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them pick one at #10 and then try to deal Bradford for a second rounder. Then pick up a veteran FA to round out the roster.
Round 1 Pick 10 (NYG): Laquon Treadwell, WR, Ole Miss (A+)
Round 2 Pick 9 (NYG): Mackensie Alexander, CB, Clemson (A)
Round 3 Pick 14: Kyle Murphy, OT, Stanford (B-)
Round 3 Pick 16: Joshua Perry, OLB/ILB, Ohio State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 2: Connor McGovern, OG, Missouri (A-)
Round 5 Pick 14: Paul Perkins, RB, UCLA (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: Charone Peake, WR, Clemson (A+)
Round 6 Pick 13: D.J. Reader, DT, Clemson (B+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Daryl Worley, CB, West Virginia (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Curt Maggitt, OLB, Tennessee (B+)
Nice mock. If you were to put a QB, who would you prefer?
Upvoted you for the “violent mo fo” remark.
Cheers !!!
If this is true, maybe they do try for Wentz/Goff if they are there.
https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/711328977793585153
Nobody knew who Wentz was this time last year…and Hack was still a first round pick.
No that’s false.They absolutely did. I didn’t know about him until last summer. I watched all of his playoff games on youtube and he was in the 1st televised game this year and I watched that because I knew about him. He won an FCS Championship. He did way more as a junior. He missed about 1/2 this season.
It’s definitely.possible some could rise or fall though.
Thx, I stand corrected.
It’s cool he’s from NDSU so it’s understandable . I had heard about him , it may have been on Eagles TATE and I wanted to know the QBs to follow so I researched and some people were talking about him.
He won 4 playoff games including a championship game. Just luck someone had all 4 full games on youtube – they’re gone, I tried to find them for my buddy in the late fall but couldn’t. He was only in that one nationally televised game. Then he got hurt and was able to come back for this year’s championship game only.
Out of curiosity, who were the other QBs mentioned last summer? Lynch?
Goff was projected a 1st round pick last summer, and Wentz was on teams radars after a great 2014 and all the measurables you could want. Lynch had the tools but teams needed him to show he could put it all together which he did the first half dozen games of last year.
Well Wentz was not a consensus 1st rounder in preseason but he was on everyone’s radar. He’d only played one season at low level of competition.
Not sure we were disagreeing here ^^. Think it is hard to say what 2017 draft class will look like… but i suspect it will continue the theme of recent years, athletes with upside but huge projections due to limited and simple college schemes meaning longer development times and more patience or running simple college like schemes.
You have few pro schemes in college and Cook was supposedly in the most pro scheme. It’s crazy what’s going on in the NFL at QB. They can’t even talk to players about football from Jan. through April so young QBs development at NFL level is a joke yet I hear guys say they have 1 1/2 years (that’s playing in games though).
The best way is to groom a high talent but you need good coaches (note we have 3 QB coach types).
The advantage with Goff is he’s the youngest and most experienced of the three but long term who will be the best? Maybe Wentz but Goff is the safest.
Lynch was a mid round like 4th-5th rounder. He vastly improved this year. Remember he has said he didn’t even start throwing until he got to college. I thought he was clunky. I really like Lynch but there’s no question he is not a sure thing andcsomewhat risky.
Goff, Cook, Wentz, and to a small extent Hackenberg. He looked good (sort of) in the bowl game maybe he’ll mature and turn it around. Also Brissett was in the 3rd/4th conversation.
Some liked Cardale Jones.
Prescott and Hogan were seen as enigmas. Both helped themselves a little it seemed but Prescott got a DUI and looks dumb at best. Hogan is tinkering with his throwing motion if not trying to overhaul it.
Wentz wasn’t considered a top 10 guy this time last year. He was considered a 2nd-3rd round guy, who if he played well could work himself into the late part of the first round and if not could be a day 3 guy.
I’m thinking they go QB in 3rd if the right guy is there, or maybe they trade up back into the 2nd to get Lynch if he is there. I’m hoping its OT, Myles Jack or Hargreaves with the 8th.
Trevone Boykin, & Media Mike’s head explodes.
He said Quarterback, why are you bringing up running backs?
Is Eli Apple on the radar of Roseman?
http://nfldraftreport.sportsblog.com/posts/14394009/the-nfl-draft-report-s–by-the-numbers–series—before-an-nfl-general-manager-drafts-a-cornerback-in-the-first-round–they-might-want-to-check-out-these-numbers.html
I hope
Good player. Not worth it at 8, but a good player. If we were in the trade down business, I’d be happy to add him.
Me too. And that article raises some good questions in regard to Hargreaves..
I like Alexander more than him
My draft predictions:
* If Tunsil doesn’t go #1 (someone moves up for QB, or Tenn takes Ramsey), then I believe Howie will scramble like mad to grab him at the #3 or #5 spot.
* I’d guess they love Jack and Ramsey, but don’t see a realistic shot at landing one. And neither would be so gamebreaking that they’d want to trade up to #3 or #5.
* I’d also guess that they love one of the QBs more than we think, and that it might be Lynch. A move to #8 gives you a much better shot at landing him than #13. It would be interesting to see their Pro Day and visit schedule with the big 3 QBs. But remember that now that Howie is back in play, subterfuge is the name of the game. Chip’s draft posturing was like playing poker with an 8 year old; Howie knows how to smokescreen. So maybe those draft visits don’t mean as much?
* Failing any of those moves, I’d guess they go either Stanley or Hargreaves, though I’d put my money on Stanley.
None of this is my own preference for what they SHOULD do (I actually like the idea of Elliot; don’t hurt me). This is me taking guesses at what I think they WILL do, based on how Howie and Reid acolytes think.
Why would the Eagles spend large resources at a position they already have a solution for with Lane Johnson. Lane will be better at LT where he is a natural fit, and Tunsil while a great prospect is a pure breed LT.
Chip needed a pair of pseudo LT’s because he didn’t want people left in to block, and liked to pass protect with just 5 guys. West Coast offenses you almost never see 5 guys out as genuine receivers, there will always been 1-2 guys helping at least initially with pass protection. Because that is the case you want a more robust run mover at RT (not to say you want them to be bad in pass protection but it is simply less of a priority).
I genuinely think the Eagles fan base need to unlearn what it learnt under Chip – where he required an elite line to have his scheme function (and then it could be dominant), and remember that the west coast is a bit more robust at being able to making do with average-good line play.
The move for Tunsil would have nothing to do with anything Chip related. It’s actually based on Reid’s philosophy of having two bookend tackles. If they can land Tunsil, they can keep Lane at RT.
Maybe the Eagles fan base could also refrain from jumping to incorrect conclusions about what people mean?
To get Tunsil you need to get to no.3, since there is no way that the Chargers pass on him. To get to 3 (and to persuade the Chargers to pass up on him) you are going to have to pay at least our 3rd and 4th round pick as well as no.8.
That is huge resources committed to having 2 LT’s, which is nice but hardly necessary luxury in a west coast system.
Do we need a RT of the future for 2017? yes absolutely. Does that position need to be a top 3 pick for it to work? not at all. Draft a project guy in the mid rounds who is raw with upside of a RT, and if he does not look like he is going to be a solution you can either shop in FA (where you can always find a RT even if it is expensive), or can wait till the draft and get one in the late 1st or early 2nd.
been no ol development in his team
well been no draft investment the last 3 years… i would expect that the Eagles will draft at least 2 OL this year maybe 3 if they find a late round guy they like.
but same coaching staff…hopefully mid round guys fare better than udfas we tried to develop
I think Gardener and Tolbin are NFL quality backups, which is probably plenty good enough return from UDFA’s. But i am of the thought that a lot of the woes that people perceive about our OL over the last 2 years is a function of scheme and system as much as lack of coaching or talent. Our OL was left in situations where they had to be excellent not to fail… and that is hard at the NFL level.
You are the only person I know that wouldn’t be happy having 2 tackles that can play LT and RT at an extremely high level.
What is wrong with LJ staying at RT if need be? It means you have a better option then him at LT.
“What is wrong with LJ staying at RT if need be? ”
What if we try Lane at LT full time and he never makes the transition to being very good? If we have Stanley, we can easily put Lane back at RT.
Exactly my point.
That is one philosophy on how to handle tackles, but unfortunately for your point, it is not the philosophy espoused by Andy Reid, and likely not the one shared by Roseman/Pederson.
As has been recently documented, Andy believed in getting two stud tackles as the cornerstone to his offense. The fact that he used a #11 on Tra Thomas, combined with the fact that his first major free agent signing was Runyan, both show that he did not at all share your ideas on finding mid rounders there. He invested quite a bit in the position. Then traded a first round pick and more for Jason Peters.
I really don’t care if the “right” way to handle the tackle position is to go first round, mid round, or last round. I’m predicting how the Eagles think, not how I think or how you think, and they have shown a tendency to invest very heavily at both tackle positions. Recent quotes from Reid back this up, as has been mentioned in reference to how Pederson views building a team. If that is the case, and I believe there is more than ample evidence that they have had and will likely continue to have that philosophy, it is not at all crazy to assume that they would highly value a player like Tunsil.
As to where he falls, if he makes it past Tenn with the 1 spot, it is likely that SD would take Tunsil, based on their own needs. But they might value someone like Bosa more. Either way, if they don’t go with Tunsil, there’s no way the Cowboys are taking him, so he’d be there for Jacksonville at 5. In either case, trading up from 8 to 3 or 8 to 5 isn’t outside the realm of possibility, and it is my whole point in saying that if a player like that is even remotely available with that relatively low cost (a second and a third to move to 3, for example), I can see Howie pulling the trigger.
I think your argument against this idea is based on you not sharing the same ideas with them on how to allocate resources, which is fine, but you are not them, so that argument doesn’t really prove that they WOULDN’T do what I’m saying.
Tra Thomas was drafted prior to Reid’s hiring
But the point was, he was top quality at LT, and then Reid went out and paid top dollar for a star RT. The philosophy of committing a large amount of resources to BOTH tackle positions remains the same.
I agree with that, just correcting your statement that Reid drafted Thomas at #11. Reid definitely believed in having two very good OT and holding onto them since continuity is so important for OL as well
If Tunsil somehow manages to fall in the Birds lap then after the Peterson departure (sooner then later), there will be open competition at LT. Whomever wins will obviously play LT with the other at RT. If LJ beats him out Tunsil could absolutely play RT at a high level. You are talking about possibly the best OL on paper.
T is not a position you pinch on. You take the best one available, and if Tunsil is available you take him in a heart beat, especially when there is going to be a T spot up for grabs soon.
I think Tunsil will be a better LT then LJ. I would be thrilled having both of them.
Agreed 100%.
Except Lane didn’t look good at his short time at LT.
I’m not sure they are going to have real interest in Hargreaves. I’m not saying they absolutely won’t or anything. The other night I was thinking about this. I kept thinking there was somebody else who had that question of deep recovery speed.
I remembered people loved Dennard but his not ideal size and deep recovery speed were questions. Kelly had less tolerance for shorter CBs.
But Howie was targeting a number of players and they all went so he traded down and Dennard went to Cincy the next pick after Manziel. Then Verrett and Roby went at end of 1st round.
They had Fletcher and Williams and they didn’t seem to value a fairly similar CB at 22. Now they’re going to trade up to 8 for one?
Opinions on Hargreaves seem to be all over the place. I see everything from “lockdown corner” to ‘evil midget.”
I could see the perks of both in a defender.
I just had a vision of Tryion Lannister playing CB.
I like Lynch. I like that he is tall but moves smoothly. I think he has solid upper body control. His footwork stinks, because he is a natural athlete and can get away with throwing from weird positions sometimes. That has to be fixed. But the Eagles have a bunch of former QBs on the coaching staff that can work on footwork.
He’s got a very good arm and touch on his throws. I think he’ll be a more athletic version of Flacco.
That is an interesting comp. I don’t like him as much as you do, but if we’re calling him Flacco-ish than we need to be talking late teens or later for a guy like him.
Comps can only be vaguely approximate. I like Lynch more than Wentz, who could be the next Jake Locker.:)
Ouch
If they move up I don’t think it’s for Tunsil. Especially to 3 because that’s costing next years first at least. At that point either Bradford plays well or everybody is getting fired.
A move to 3 would be for QB, no?
Yea, I think if the Jags or Ravens are willing to move back for only a 3 then possibly Jack would be in play, but if we move to 3 it’s for a QB.
They can punt on QB this year if they retain their first and say worse case we’ll hope we can offer a kings ransom next year but if you move 2017 first you have to get a QB.
Here is where I’m torn. I really want Goff, don’t think Dallas will take him, see his “soft spot” as right ahead of the Niners, but fear the Rams can jump us and steal him before we could get him at 5 or 6.
I think Howie knows who wants him. If they want him and he’s there at 5 they’ll go get him.
That won’t cost us more than a 3rd and maybe one more pick. I can live with that. I just fear the Rams using our ammo to move up and stealing our guy.
I’m doing the deal even if it’s 2017 1st and pick 100.
You mean in addition to pick 8? If I have to go to that level of compensation to get the QB I’ll need to the following;
– a written and signed agreement from the whole organization to kill themselves in public if the QB doesn’t turn into a perennial pro bowler.
– assurances that we can flip Bradford in the next off-season for a 2nd rounder to ease the sticker shock.
Yes. I’ll go down swinging before I go down with my wang in my hand.
I’d love to go with you when you buy a car.
He can’t buy working cars. Because they run……
BOOOOOOOM
Your car might run, but mine can definitely pass.
I spent 5 hours at the dealership being stubborn when I purchased my last one. It paid off nicely.
Why even waste your time at a dealer? Know the make, model, and specs you want and contact 50 dealers electronically. It takes at most several hours but is a huge time and energy saver ultimately. If the dealer refuses to give a quote or match a price, screw’em.
Just a matter of being methodical and remorseless in the process. Car salesman are almost uniformly full of it and add little/nothing of real value in the sales process if you due your homework.
Do you want him? Or any of the other QBs?
I pine for Goff. As I said below I’ll offer next years first plus one of our day 2 picks on top of 8 if it gets me Goff. I also really like Wentz but Goff’s the special one.
Yeah I saw that (should have kept reading before asking).
I hope they end up with a QB somehow… Just don’t want to give away the farm to get him.
– San Diego would be foolish to trade down from #3 if Tunsil is there. They can’t protect Rivers well enough as is.
– Agree that Jack / Ramsey are really not likely to be available at 8
– If they like Lynch, they should take a player at 8, then figure out how to trade back up into the end of the first / start of the second to get him. There isn’t any reason to take him at 8.
– Agree on Stanley. Bookend tackles seem to be more of a necessity given how often teams move their best pass rusher from side to side.
I am glad you ( Tommy) are completely focusing on the present and future and not the past. I am sick of hearing about “what if we traded for Mariota” or what if we kept Maclin & Jackson or McCoy. We can’t change the past. We can only concentrate on building our current roster into a competitive team. I like what we have done thus far. Our defense certainly has a chance to be a top 10 unit and I think our offense will benefit from having Bradford be able to audible us into a better play at the line of scrimmage since we are no longer going to operate a full time hurry up offense. The O-line will also likely be better and we will continue to add depth and competition via the draft. If Howie can score 3-4 impact players in this draft our roster will certainly be able to compete to win the NFC East and potentially a home playoff game. I think that is the best we can hope for heading into this season. Howie & company will need at least one more solid off-season to continue to add and develop talent to propel us into the conversation as a real contender in the NFC. I wish we could fast forward to draft weekend. The lull in the action after the first wave of free agency until then feels like an eternity.
right there with you about looking forward. but just as an aside;
if that report about the potential mariota trade is true, kelly is one of the dumbest piece of shit GMs this league has ever seen. that trade would have been on the hershel walker/rgIII level. 2 1sts, 1 2nd, and any defensive player on the team (fletcher cox) is ludicrous. that trade would have destroyed the future development of this team.
on top of that the moves he did make that off season, signing murray, bradford, and miles austin’s corpse, were down right horrendous. im down with chip kelly the head coach, chip kelly the GM can go fuck himself.
You forgot to mention that traded reportedly included any QB on the roster also. I agree it was idiotic. I just want to move on. Good offseason so far. Lot more work to do. Onward and upwards.
or maybe even samewards.
Its not idiotic at all if you believe Mariota is a franchise QB. That is the crux of the issue – a franchise QB is the rarest of assets and more valuable than a good DT like Cox or mediocre QB like Bradford or draft picks that we have no idea if they will pan out to anything or not. A very high % of the teams that win SB have a franchise QB. If you can get a young one like Mariota who fits your scheme like a glove, is cheap for several years and can be built around, that is extremely valuable. Sure, it is a high price, but, if Mariota turns into a franchise QB, you win the trade.
that’s all well and good but do you believe mariota is a franchise QB, bc the skins sure thought rg3 was. i’d have done it if was for rodgers or luck, but that’s about it.
Well, that is the risk. The only time we’d be able to get a young cheap franchise QB is by taking exactly this type of gamble and we’d never be able to know the future at that time. If we never try, we’ll never get that QB.
Rodgers and Luck would cost much more than that package since they already are franchise QB in their primes. They would never be available anyway.
Yeah cuz teams with the top QBs Rodgers, Brees, BRady, Rothlisberger, Russell Wilson all had to trade away half their franchise to get them…… Stop it
No, they all drafted and developed them, but the point is they had to roll the dice, take the risk and make the investment necessary to have a chance at having a franchise QB. No one knew if they would become franchise QB at that time and if someone claims to they are full of it. If they are never willing to take that chance, they’d have never gotten one.
The only way for the Eagles to get a young and cheap potential franchise QB last season was to make the trade for Mariota. Winston was not available nor was any of the already known franchise QB. TN was the only one willing to listen, but even after such an offer they decided to keep Mariota anyway. Why? Because they believe he is a potential franchise QB and that is worth far more than the package the Eagles offered.
“Its not idiotic at all if you believe Mariota is a franchise QB.”
Sure, if we’re talking trading the Titans the actual point value for pick #2. I don’t overpay however.
Good point
2 firsts seems like a lot, but remember one of them was Marcus Smith II, so really the deal was like 1 first.
but would the titans have taken ms2 with that pick? i doubt it. or are you saying that in this alt reality we wouldn’t have smith compared to this reality where he’s on the team. great scott, i need some clarification.
This was last years first. It would have been
Agholor, Rowe, This years 1st, Cox, some combination of (Bradford, Kendricks, Boykin), plus the fourth rounder that became pick 77 this year.
It’s a kings ransom. But if Mariotta becomes dat guy it would have been a fair deal.
Dat guy would have to be like top 5 QB of past 20 years in order to be worth it. If it turns out he is a Joe Flacco type, and you pay that you could be screwed. Sure the guy is really good enough to win it, but does he get thrown into perpetual system change due to impatient owners?
I really like the look under every rock Seattle strategy. Build the team up, so that when you get a guy he can have success.
Am I under valuing QB?
Ehhhhhh again I think that’s a bit much expectations wise. If he becomes a perennial top 10 QB it was worth it.
You’d be worse in years 1-3 but eventually roster churn would catch back up and the following decade the team would be in a much better position.
Also I think you’re overvaluing the rarity of finding a franchise QB outside the top 40 is. It’s basically Wilson, Romo and Brady in the last 2 decades.
Everyone complains about the opportunity cost of taking a QB high, but you’re talking two or three times at max and you’ll have likely found your guy. The keep throwing resources approach gives you a hell of alot more Mike Kafka’s and Tom Savages than Russel Wilsons, and in the meantime you’re blowing picks that are in the range to bring in young cheap quality starters.
Sorry to do this, Greg, because I know it can by annoying, but I had to struggle through a long paragraph to read your insightful comments. Thanks for a great post, but please break up long paragraphs into smaller ones. Much easier to read.
No worries. I can break it up moving forward. I never gave it a thought before, but I can adjust with ease.
Again, I won’t be surprised if they go for Goff/Wentz if they are available.
https://twitter.com/DMN_George/status/711369567281393665
Yeah, I’m not buying the “Cowboy will absolutely not draft a QB at 4” talk. I wont be surprised either way
I think they absolutely will draft a QB there
I am. Gil Brandt was speaking it and he’s VERY piped in down in Dallas.
Can we please not make “piped in” a thing? Ew.
One of them will be there, but I think Dallas is more likely to try to develop a guy behind Romo the next two years.
Dallas is in win now mode, so they want an instant starter from top 4 pick.
I hope this is the route they take. Having Parcells pick Romo is a lot different than Jerrah deciding who’s going to be the man. If they pick later thinking they can reproduce Parcell’s, I believe it will set them back a few more years.
As much as I hate them, they were just 12-4. That is a team to which you add a top talent at pick #4 and hope he puts you over the top.
My hope is that they take Elliot or Bosa there.
My fear is that they take Ramsey or Jack.
They were 12-4 with a 34 year old Tony Romo prior to breaking his collarbone for 3rd time and have a plate and screws inserted. He has also had 2 back surgeries.
I just have a hard time imagining a 36 year old QB with chronic back and collarbone problems lasting through a whole season.
Please please please please please use your 2nd round pick on Prescott Dallas.
I doubt Howie would take a QB without the full support of Pederson, so maybe Pederson is the guy we should listen to if we want clues to what the Eagles are thinking.
I don’t know what to think. Part of me thinks if that Goff/Wentz are there, they will pounce.
If not, it’s easy for them to say they wanted to get a “project” that they could draft Rounds 3/4.
If Pederson is anything like Reid/Holmgren in his view of QBs, he will draft one early if the right guy is there.
Yes, I think it’s all very corporate, meetings with coaches, and with scouts, with the end purpose of giving Howie all the info he needs to make the decisions. Howie himself can only be as good as the people he has around him. He’s smart and decisive but he doesn’t need to be the main talent evaluator, but rather work at a higher executive level.
But he’s had that power before and it hasn’t worked out so well. I hope that this iteration is a lot better in terms of him making decisions. We have to hope that he’s learned something in the last few years.
Impossible to tell who screwed up in some cases, and usually we never find out exactly what went wrong and how. Howie is responsible because he has final say but I’m sure a lot of people’s input goes into that, and, garbage-in-garbage-out. Howie makes the plan and more often than not executes it well, the MS2 draft being the glaring exception.
GI/GO – “words” (initials) to live by
Or moreso ask schwartzy.
The first few extensions came so quickly it’s frustrating we haven’t locked Cox up yet… I know we have another year, but I hope we get that done ASAP.
Eagles off-season champions 2016. What else is new? We have like 8 off-season Lombardis now.
Here’s the issue with Cox’s negotiation.
His salary this year is far below his true value
The franchise tag next year is far below his true value.
So the Eagles have massive leverage over Cox and don’t have to rush an extension. It’ll get done, but they don’t have to fear losing him.
The Malik Jackson deal seriously ran up his cost however.
I think you’re looking at 6 years / $102 million for Cox.
I think his camp is waiting to see what Wilkerson gets. Whatever that deal is add like 3-5% and that will be Cox’s deal.
We might be waiting a while if the Jets keep tagging him.
Well Cox is going to probably need to get used to that since i think thats where this will end up with the Eagles as well.
Cox is playing this wisely. If he signs now he gets less for security. If he waits he gets what he is worth.
If he waits, then the Eagles would likely just franchise tag him 2 seasons in a row. Gets more security by negotiating long-term extension now.
That is the trade off. I don’t think either side wants that. Ideally for him they cave and pay him market value now. It’s a real gamble. Almost makes me nervous.
I think alot of it has to do with the fact that he will be playing a new position that better fits him, and a scheme that better fits him. He may be willing to gamble on himself and have an absolutely monster year and then return to the table.
Cox extension is like the last thing I worry about….. Kid ISNT going anywhere,
This is a very different sort of Offseason Championship, it’s basically praising us for not doing the same thing that won us all those “offseason superbowls” in the past…… According to our old offseason championships, the Giants would Probably be the “big winners” this year
The league meetings are from Monday-Wednesday The AFC coaches’ breakfast is Tuesday so I’d guess the NFC is Wednesday. Is it just coaches that eat breakfast together or do GMs too. I really want to see Chip ask Howie to pass the ketchup and Howie to squirt it right into his weasely face.
If Chip asks Howie for the ketchup, Howie will get The salt, pepper, Chip’s bacon and choice of Chip’s juice at next year’s breakfast.
Chip will end up giving it all away and getting no ketchup in return
Yes!
He’ll get catsup. In little McDonald’s packets
The trade back and get Jack draft. No OT, no QB.
Round 1 Pick 11 (CHI): Myles Jack, OLB/ILB, UCLA (A+)
Round 2 Pick 10 (CHI): Josh Doctson, WR, TCU (A)
Round 3 Pick 14: Jordan Howard, RB, Indiana (A)
Round 3 Pick 18 (ATL): Landon Turner, OG, North Carolina (A-)
Round 4 Pick 2: Shawn Oakman, DE, Baylor (A)
Round 4 Pick 17 (ATL): Jordan Jenkins, OLB, Georgia (A)
Round 5 Pick 14: Rashard Robinson, CB, LSU (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: Willie Henry, DT, Michigan (B+)
Round 6 Pick 13: Thomas Duarte, WR, UCLA (A+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Demarcus Robinson, WR, Florida (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Antwaun Woods, DT, Southern California (A)
Despite his injury I think Jack is talented enough that he will not fall out of the top 10. Unless of course teams medical staffs know something we don’t know.
too many WR picks
Duarte is a TE basically
I think Doctson is being undervalued by a lot of people. IMHO I think he should be the 1st or 2nd WR off the board
I think the Ohio State kid will end up being one of the first two WR drafted even tho he doesnt get much hype .
Michael Thomas.
I just think Doctson is better than everyone else
Yeah him,,. But I like doctson too…. Not sure that a Wr will be one of the first 4 picks Tho, But I wouldn’t complain… I just want the best players possible, positions DONT concen me the least bit
Braxton Miller has big play ability I don’t see with Doctson. But Doctson is a precise route runner and works better in traffic. Given the choice I take Miller
I can see that. I wouldn’t cry about Miller on the Eagles.
I love the flexibility the Eagles have in the draft. Bringing Nolan Carroll back was big because the chances of the drafting a CB out of necessity in the top 10 has now decreased. We’re in perfect position to draft Best-Player-Available and with the amount of blue-chip players on defense, a playmaker on offense at no. 8 makes the most sense (Ezekiel Elliott), in my opinion.
So what are some thoughts on this? Because the way I see it, with Nolan coming back, there’s no glaring hole that needs desperate attention. I get that the offensive line needs some new blood, but that can happen in the middle rounds.
Here is some sad reading for a Sunday afternoon.
https://twitter.com/BSO/status/711593031712034818
So happy we didn’t draft him. He can hit all day but he cant cover 🙂
ERtz will,be roasting him for many years to come
Classic.
He can hit but hasn’t learned how to wrap it up;-)
Even better.
I didn’t really follow him as much as I wanted to last year. I remember the dropped pick that would have sealed a win against the Patriots.
Did he indeed struggle as much in coverage as everyone assumed he would?
Well played, but perhaps too subtle, I fear.
Seems like he has taste at least…..
Tommy – what evidence are you using that shows Daniel is a better backup or QB in general than Sanchez? The guy has played in six games during the last 3 seasons. He has started two regular season games and thrown 77 passes total in his entire 7 year career. In short, most of the play was during garbage time in blowouts. He’s played in a bunch of preseason games, but I cannot imagine you’d use unreliable preseason stats.
I think its obvious the choice of Daniel is based more on projection than performance and the belief that familiarity with Pederson’s scheme gives him a leg up on Sanchez. If that is the case, it does not make me feel any better, but at least it is a more realistic explanation. Sanchez showed little here and continued to make the killer mistakes that hurt the team badly. We’ll see what happens when Bradford goes down because we know it is coming.
Evidence? Do you need more evidence than our coach could have had Sanchez or Daniels and chose Daniel instead? You know the Guy only has like two starts, how you gonna ask for evidence at a time where everything is based of projections?
I like Daniels, but it is a fair question asked. The rest of his post went on to confirm it I’d based on projection.
No.. It’s not, because there is no evidence other then going off what people who played and work with him think… It’s a complete projection for us, but not for Doug..
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I used to go along with the Mark Sanchez is the best back up narrative, now I don’t even want him as the #3… All I know is sanchez can’t play, and Daniel can’t possibly be much worse… Nothing to do but hope Doug Pederson knows what a decent QB looks like…. But a guy with 2 starts isn’t going to provide evidence. It’s a total projection… But I feel better about it since Doug Knows him, instead of if I was a cowboy fan and they brought him in as the Romo Savior not having a coach who has worked with him up close in the past.
…
Chase clearly is valued by our Head Coach, and that works for me. I’ll give doug the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise… His career basically depends on the QB position, if Chase is his Guy, nothing to do but hope he is right..
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We are talking about replacing Sanchez…. Im not exactly expecting Filet Mignon
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If we have to Gamble on projections, feel a little better about Gambling on guys our coaches have worked with
But the original post is asking why Tommy is making the statement that Daniel is better than Sanchez. That is a bold statement that the OP is arguing lacks evidence. Projection… yes, but definitely not a sure thing.
Tommy stated he thought Daniel was an upgrade from Sanchez and a better QB. I’m asking a simple question: what evidence is he basing that opinion on. Daniel has played very little at this level during his career. If Tommy is just projecting based on scheme fit and as an anti-Sanchez re. turnovers etc., then I get it, but he may know more or have other information I’m not privy to and so I wanted to ask the question.
That’s a reasonable question, but I think the answer lies in the idea that as a backup, he would only be counted on to play part of a game, or possibly start a few games in case of a short-term injury to the starter, a la AJ Feeley or Koy Detmer. The hope is that the backup comes in and can run the offense effectively as a game manager, and not necessarily be expected to do something special to win the game. On the flip side, the last thing you want a backup to do is turn the ball over, which Sanchez seemed to do in spades. The backup may not win any games for you, but you sure as heck don’t want him to lose them for you either. At least in my opinion, that’s one of the qualities that Pederson sees in Chase, the ability to be smart with the ball and not force anything that would hurt the teams chances to win.
Sometimes the media and fans think you need a backup to rescue the team if a QB is injured for a long period of time or is out for the season. In the salary cap era, outside of Cassel in New England a few years ago, that hasn’t really happened. I think the value of drafting and developing a QB as Pederson wants to do was seen this year with Brock in Denver. He played generally well and helped the team get to the Superbowl. Too many times people act like any QB taken in the fourth of fifth round will be effective and can be groomed to be a starter, but they forget, even Brock was picked in the 2nd round, so it’s not like he was a mid or late round afterthought.
Chase, on the other hand, being undrafted, really isn’t looked upon as a future starter. Regardless of what the media says with his contract, he was brought in to help Sam, be a mentor to a rookie QB, and act as a player coach. He just doesn’t have the arm to succeed at this level as a starter. Last year, several members of the media played the “Sanchez is better than Sam” drum going in to training camp. They quickly did a 180 on their view once they saw Sam’s arm strength in practice. He made Sanchez’s passes look like they were thrown from a high school QB in comparison. Sanchez was a high first round pick and he still didn’t have the arm to make all the throws Sam can make.
Gotta love the flexibility the Eagles have now going into the draft.
It will fun the watch the draft with really no idea who they will take in any round, let alone round 1.
Yes it was a terrific offseason. An important reason for this is that Howie Roseman listened to the coaches. He obviously got feedback from Pederson and Schwartz in hiring guys that had relationships with them and fit their systems. Howie was brilliant in working trades and structuring the cap and we know he is good at understanding where players will be drafted. What we don’t know about him is how good he is in evaluating talent. That is why cooperation is needed and we can see how beautifully cooperation works. This is the same cooperation that Chip Kelly rejected and Jeff Laurie was ridiculed for wanting to instill in his organization. With the draft more cooperation will be needed, particularly with the scouting staff. And why wouldn’t they. Many people actually like to work together.
As an Eagles fan I have been following Laurie for a long time. He understands the an organization depends on the person at the top to set the tone for the organization. He does not micromanage but sets the standard for integrity within the organization. He is a brilliant chief executive and deserves praise not derision for insisting on cooperation.
Every single front office “collaborates” on decisions… In the End, one person will always be responsible for the GM decisions… Lurie has been a solid owner, but he shows weakness not having the Balls to admit that Roseman is the GM because of how the public viewed Roseman…. Grow a pair, and own your decisions and stick to your Guns,.. But other than that spineless press Confrence, I think Lurie has been a very solid owner
Ok but I think it’s fair to say that Kelly would not cooperate with Roseman.
Obviously,,,. But You can bet chip still heard the opinipns of his scouts. Marnowitz, and his assistant coaches, and then made his decision… Which is basically the same thing that will happen now, Roseman hearing EVERYONEs opinions, and then doing what he feels is best, even if LURIE is too chicken shit to admit it to the big bad Philly media
Chip may have heard the opinions of his scouts but he didn’t listen. He was out of control.
After Chip forced his hand, I’m thinking Kelly was gone as soon as he provided a plausible justification, and boy wasn’t last season just that?
“As an Eagles fan I have been following Laurie for a long time.”
Evidently not long enough to spell Lurie correctly;-b
Laurie might be a girl he’s crushing on
I think stalking is the word you are seeking.
I agree cooperation, teamwork and collaboration are all important aspects of a successful front office.
The point that Lurie gets criticized on is with whom the buck stops in football operations and personnel. That is also a vital aspect of a successful front office and for some strange reason Lurie and the Eagles have always been very reticent about clearly defining the hierarchy and who has the final authority.
There needs to be a person who is ultimately responsible & accountable for the success or failure of the football operations and personnel decisions. That person cannot be the owner because the owner cannot be held accountable. There needs to be a GM or President or whatever the title is who leads the process and makes the final calls.
If that person fails, eventually they get fired. If they succeed, they stay and are rewarded. Simple as that. We already know that Roseman is that person, but why the organization and Lurie are unwilling to confirm it and hide behind the “collaboration” mantra is confusing and bizarre. What are they so afraid of?
The other issue Lurie gets criticized for is the bs about hiring a top notch personnel person this off-season. They went through the motions and then dropped it. They still have not hired anyone and supposedly now will wait until after the draft, lol. So what is the new personnel guy going to advise on with FA, the trades and the draft all completed? UDFA, lol? It was a dodge on Lurie’s part and he should come out and admit it. They’ll hire a junior guy to work under Roseman and off we go.
Why does someone have to be held accountable outside of the owner, and why should fans know who that is, when they will never be in a position to make those evaluations because they do not and will never have access to the inside information that is needed to do so.
Howie is a good with contracts, getting deals done and setting up a balanced roster to fit coaching needs. Why ever fire him if he can do those things pretty objectively well. Why not have a person in charge of talent evaluation, and then hold him accountable for draft success and failure over an extended period of time?
Seems to me that is what Lurie wants to do – the fact it does not fit talk sport needs of having a single person to blame is not a problem to the team.
Starting to think it will be 1) Jack, 2) Buckner, or 3) Zeke….. With Buckner most likely end up being the pick
Read that the Cowboys want Buckner at 4.
Read that the Cowboys want everyone at #4, Jack, zeke, Buckner, Bosa, Ramsey allegedly is #1 on their board…..who knows…
They’re messing with everyone. They plan on taking a QB
It looks like you are trying to take a pure BPA approach, ignoring fit or positional value. This is certainly a noble pursuit and likely will draw a response that invites a dissertation explaining your philosophy.
I wonder though, if we want to make sure not to devalue any position, if you’d consider a once a decade talent like this:
Roberto Aguayo, K, Florida State
Height: 6-1. Weight: 204
3/5/16: Aguayo is one of the top kickers in college football history and was a three-time First-Team All-American. He connected on 81 percent, 90 percent, and 96 percent of his field goal attempts over the past three seasons, respectively. Aguayo has a strong leg and never missed an extra point over three years. With the change of the NFL’s extra point rules, Aguayo is even more valuable. He is a rare prospect who could go in the early rounds on the third day of the draft.
(http://walterfootball.com/draft2016K.php#FejQQBF9rGXgqLs3.99)
interior Pass rush is highly valued by every team……. And Buckner Fits our situatipn better than Eagle fans realize
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And Yes,I will always go BPA this high in the draft when I know we will be chosing between one or two of the leftover top tier prospects, not this Huge amount of possibilities to choose from people seem to think
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We are choosing between one or two of the top tier guys left on the board. Our options will be very limited…. They won’t pass on a top tier talent to take a position you think they value more from the next tier of prospects
Holy shit Notre dame…
The Draftek computer simulator Mock just provided my dream..
..
1) Titans…Tunsil
2) Browns- Wentz
3) Chargers ..Bosa
4) Dallas…zeke
5) Jags….Jack
6) Ravens…Buckner
7) Niners… Goff
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8) Jalen Ramsey….. Why must these mock drafts tease me like this? That would instantly give us a sick secondary… McLeod/Jenkins,,, Death ROWE/Ramsey on the outside, Nolan and Leodis as our nickel n Dime..
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If a Miracle happens and Ramsey falls to #6, Roseman better try and get up to #6 for him. Trade his first born if he has to….. That would make my entire offseason
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“Stop playing with my emotions smokey”-Big worm
It’s plausible. I think Dallas takes Goff in that scenario. Maybe SF takes Zeke in that case.
I am gollum
Back to your cave, until we get the ring.
I’ll be too old to care by then
And this whole time I thought you were just a clown.
I am, and I am
clearly
Don’t make a Hobbit of posting
Im gonna gibbs slap you one day
This is a bit of hyperbole by the analyst. I’d give Roseman A-/B+. I’m not crazy about a couple of the moves this offseason including the Daniel signing and Curry extension.
Best thing about this offseason is Rosemsn was able to improve this team a bit without sacrificing a ton of future payroll flexibility or draft picks. Still think the best move was being able to resign Bradford to the terms and contract he agreed to given the Eagles want to be competitive next year. Roseman didn’t panic, played a steady hand, and got a deal done that makes lots of short-term and intermediate term sense.
I would also give credit to Howie due to the fact that he was able to get out of the Maxwell contract, which will probably not look bad in a year, but more importantly, he was able to get rid of Murray. Who was unhappy, overpaid, overused( if not by Chip definitely by Jason Garrett), and over the hill. He not only got cap relief, he was able to move up in the draft.