The QB Situation
Posted: March 13th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 149 Comments »The Eagles were able to re-sign Sam Bradford, giving them short term stability. They went into free agency and signed Chase Daniel, who gives them a solid backup and someone who can push Bradford.
Doug Pederson talked about wanting to build a group of QBs, to make that a position of strength. Some people see Bradford and Daniel and think that sounds great for a Big 12 highlight video, but not a 1-2 duo in the NFL. Certainly no one thinks the Eagles have anyone like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady or Cam Newton. But that doesn’t mean Pederson can’t think highly of his QBs.
Bradford returns to the Eagles. He developed good chemistry with Jordan Matthews and Zach Ertz. Bradford took on more of a leadership role as the season went along. There is value in bringing him back that goes beyond on-field performance. The same is true with Daniel. He played for Pederson in KC and can help teach the new offense to his teammates. Daniel and Pederson will be on the same page so he can act as a liaison between coach and QBs.
If Pederson and Daniel had been signed by the Browns, that would be different than having them in this situation. Some of you may think this is just a way of putting a positive spin on things. Not at all. Think about Matt Flynn. He was a terrific backup for Green Bay. He tried playing for other teams and struggled. He returned to the Packers and played well. He was a terrific fit for that system and functioned well with those teammates. Fit is important at all positions, but can be even more important at QB.
I think the Eagles have a solid combination with Bradford and Daniel. That hardly means the position is set. I think the team could easily spend pick 8 on a QB. Who is available? What do they think of the prospects?
1 – TEN
2 – CLE
3 – SD
4 – DAL
5 – JAX
6 – BAL
7 – SF
8 – PHI
Cleveland holds the first domino. They have the second pick and could take a QB. They are currently rumored to be looking into acquiring Colin Kaepernick. If they do that, I think they will pass on a QB. If they don’t add a veteran, I think they will go QB in the draft.
The Chargers could add a QB to groom, but I don’t anticipate that. It feels like Dallas will pass on a QB. The Jags and Ravens are set at QB.
I think the Niners could go for a QB. I can see them liking both Carson Wentz and Jared Goff. The only issue could be Goff’s hand size, which was a big issue for Chip Kelly. GM Trent Baalke might overrule him and take Goff anyway.
Let’s hope the Browns are able to deal for Kaepernick. That would give the Eagles a good chance to have one of the top two QBs on the board at 8. Nothing is certain. Both QBs could be there or both could be gone. We don’t know just how highly NFL teams think of the QBs.
I do fully expect the Eagles to draft a QB, whether in the 1st round or later. The team needs to add a young player to develop for the future. There are good 1st round targets and this year there are some really interesting mid and even late-round prospects. I will be writing more about the draft prospects in the coming weeks.
For now, here are my Top 5:
Carson Wentz
Jared Goff
Paxton Lynch
Connor Cook
Kevin Hogan
I’m going back and forth on Wentz and Goff for the top spot. I do think Goff is the most ready to play. That’s not critical for the Eagles because of the presence of Bradford and Daniel. The Eagles should have the luxury of bringing their rookie along slowly.
I’m excited to see what the Eagles do at QB. None of us knows exactly what Pederson is looking for. It will be interesting to see who he pushes for. Howie Roseman is the GM, but he’ll get the QB that his coach wants. That’s not a position where the GM forces his guy on a coach. They’ll be on the same page.
This is the most optimistic I’ve felt about the Eagles QB situation in recent years.
*****
Some of you didn’t like my comments about Pederson and his performance at the press conference.
I never said Pederson was a bad coach because of the performance. The ability to talk to the media doesn’t mean a guy can or can’t coach.
Pederson was an unconventional hire. Ray Rhodes was the DC of the team that won the Super Bowl. Andy Reid was a key assistant on a team that won a SB and went to another. He helped to develop an elite QB. Chip Kelly built Oregon into an elite college program. Pederson wasn’t on their level so I think it is fair to be nervous if he appears to be awkward in some way.
While I want Pederson to succeed, I think it is important to evaluate him accurately. Like it or not, media presence is part of being a head coach. Communication skills are critical. Pederson has to stand in a locker room of 53 men and get them to buy into his message. I think it is worth noting when a coach stumbles through some easy questions about free agent additions and recent trades.
There is no doubt that the presence of TV cameras and microphones can affect people. I hope Pederson is much more natural when he’s around his players. I’ll gladly put up with awkward press conferences if Pederson gets the team to play well.
Ultimately, Pederson will be judged on wins and losses. For now, this is more about my confidence in him. I’m optimistic, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a bit nervous.
_
I wouldn’t sleep on SDG drafting a QB. Rivers has maybe 2 years left and it’s been reported that they love Wentz.
Maybe.
McCoy is on a short lease so I’m guessing he will push for a player who can help them win now. Not sure who out there has the owner’s ear.
I think the same logic applies even more forcefully to the Cowboys. Have they signed a backup that’s an improvement over last year’s disaster yet? Because you know Romo will miss at least 4 games this season.
Chargers have one of the worst Defenses and maybe the worst OL in the NFL, while having a Top 10 QB (imo), talented receiving weapons and a talented RB.
I know, as a Franchise you hope to not pick this high very often. But Rivers has been incredibly durable, which means you don’t look at the QB backup position like we do, having Bradford.
The Chargers least of a problem is the QB position. That’s good. But having a team that can’t protect your Franchise QB and who can’t play Defense, imo you need to invest into your OL or your Defense. You need to be competive as long as Rivers is there, who knows how long it will take to find a QB like him again.
#3 is tricky for the Chargers if the Browns really get Kaepernick. That would probably lead to Tunsil and Ramsey gone at #3. But if the Browns don’t get Kaep, they will draft a QB and the Chargers will get Ramsey or Tunsil (I think Ramsey) – both would be huge upgrades at positions of need. I don’t think their GM would wait one second to pull the trigger.
Thing is, Chargers could trade back a bit and gain more picks. If someone trades up, you have to think they will take a QB. But I don’t think the Chargers are in play for a QB.
I dig Tommy’s list of the top 5 QBs. I’m not sure how much I’m into Cook or Hogan, but they’re far better than Dak Prescott……….who far too many people want to fluff up into something special when he’s clearly not.
Prescott got a DWI so that will knock him down a peg.
As it should. He’ll be facing a suspension and will also be in the league’s loser program.
You wanted him in that program before, simply because he can run…
The Ravens will be in a great spot if one of the QBs gets through the first 5 picks. Teams will think they have to jump SF to get him. SF might even look to trade up 1 spot to prevent someone jumping them. It would be fun on draft day for the cameras to catch Howie, Ozzie, and Baalke while Baltimore is on the clock. Or to see Chip’s reaction if Howie is able to jump in front of him… then picks Mack or another non QB.
I have a hard time imagining that a former QB would have a hard time talking to players. A REALLY hard time.
I have no problem imagining him having a hard time, though, with a hundred mikes and cameras in his face. It’s a different dynamic entirely.
I agree that media presence is sort of important for a head coach, but it’s only important as a separate, additional skill; it’s not an indicator of strength or deficiency in other areas. Oranges and apples. Anyone who thinks there’s a correlation between speaking to a bunch of guys in a locker room and dealing with cameras, microphones, and an audience of millions has never had a camera or a microphone in their face, nor ever had to speak to a faceless mass of people.
Glossophobia!
Media presence is important for fans and the media, aka selling tickets. That’s it.
I totally agree that a HC of an NFL team should display the highest level of confidence when dealing with the media, especially when his leadership ability is in question.
However, I would not be worried unless I started hearing locker room chatter that he was less than confident when speaking to the players and coaches.
My hope is the browns get kapernick, so it’s only us and the niners for the top qbs.
I do think Kelly would want Goff bc he fits the type of qbs Kelly has target in the NFL
If not for hand size, I could see Chip loving Goff.
T-Law:
It’s great when you post comments in the thread.
Their infrequency makes them even better!
Hand size was only a thing you look at for him, he wrote that you look at how he grips it
Hmmmmm
Source
http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25495263/ers-chip-kelly-values-qbs-with-big-hands-which-jared-goff-lacks
My thoughts exactly. Do we “know” what Chips minimum hand size was? We knew he would like to have them at 10+, but who wouldn’t? It depends on which size the deal breaker is.
Kelly cannot want Goff.
Because once you make an exception to your H/W/S/HS requirements, you end up with a team of small, slow, small-handed guys.
The fact that some of these “exceptions” are great football players doesn’t factor into the Kelly equation.
Someone was paying attention in class.
It’s a shame “being able to catch” didn’t fit into Kelly’s system for evaluating wide receivers.
Goff is over the common threshold and Kelly never said he do not want small hands, just that he grips it if it is smaller
You’re actually wrong, Kelly has said on numerous occasions that hands size are a big determining factor in how he picks QBs.
Kelly has said many things and this was actually true. Matt Barkley had big hands for his size. Matt Barkley.
Matt Barkley.
Kelly recently said, I believe during the combine, that they’re just guidelines to go by and sometimes won’t factor into the player chosen. He would draft Goff if he thought he could be a franchise guy.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25495263/ers-chip-kelly-values-qbs-with-big-hands-which-jared-goff-lacks
If the 9ers take Goff it was Balke, not Chip. Chip will say that he wanted Goff too. After I calm down I will proceed to scream the following into the abyss:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b4/76/6a/b4766ab32cdbd36c49be2962bdc8cae3.jpg
Tommy
Let’s say both Goff and Wentz are gone by the time the Eagles are on the clock, however the following three are still available:
Stanley
Ramey
Jack
Who you gonna pick?
Tough call. I guess Ramsey, but Jack (mostly because I f-ing hate Kendricks) would a really fun to to play with at LB…….but Scwartz doesn’t really do exotic stuff with blizters, so I don’t know if we’d maximize Jack here.
I’d prefer Stanley, as I think he and LJ could be bookends for a long time. I love the idea of building the lines via the 1st round, as I’m more of a “win the trench” guy.
That said, it’s not like I’m going to be mad about a stud CB or stud S that happened to fall in our laps. Either one could be what puts us over the top as an elite defense.
Ramsey
Stanley
Jack
In that order
I wouldn’t be mad if one was picked over the other since there’s solid reasoning.
Ramsey – playmaking DB with the desired H/W/S and a ton of versatility.
Stanley – bookend premium LT that needs to get stronger but doesn’t have that nasty streak.
Jack – very athletic do-it-all LB that can be a cornerstone player for years
Ramsey easily
Not Tommy, but I would take Ramsey.
Ramsey
Jack
Stanley
Ronnie Stanley is good, but the other prospects are on a different level.
Can you imagine having the Honey Badger with size? Because according to most experts, Ramsey is just that. Plus, apparently he’s a very clean prospect who blows people away during the interviews with his football knowledge.
Ramsey won’t be there at 8, but if he is, just open a good bottle of whichever alcohol your prefer and celebrate. All of a sudden we’d have 2 good Safeties and 1 lockdown CB. The weakest link of our Secondary would be Rowe, and he did show potential as a rookie. Howie would have turned our defensive weakness for years and years into one of the best units in Football.
But, again: Ramsey won’t be there at 8. I’m thinking Cowboys or Jags, the latest.
any chance theQBs wentz and goff push ramsey down to 8?????..if so eagles should “usain bolt” it to the podium”.we would easily have the best secondary in the league….
The don’t think having Ramsey instantly puts us in the best secondary in the league category
I don’t even think we get the chance to draft Ramsey. Id be surprised if he makes it past #4.
I have Jim as my number 2 overall player in the draft, crazy talent, Id be shocked if he gets past 5
Cowgirls won’t let him get past them if he isn’t top 3 somehow.
You were right to say that Peterson was awkward in the press conference. In my view he did not know how to phrase some things in just the right way to keep that pack of wolves that is the press corps at a respectable distance. It’s clear that Peterson has not developed his own style yet at these press conferences, particularly as it comes to handling the press and repeating too many cliches. Nonetheless it seems to me he is struggling to find a way to be honest for the Eagles faithful while at the same time shielding his internal organs from the press. This I applaud. I agree the most important thing for a coach is to win. So I don’t have to learn a lot from these press conferences. But it would be nice.
Tommy, I’m normally on the same page with you, however this press conference critic of Pederson is mind boggling. In no way did Pederson seem like an amateur. I rewatched it before I posted this comment.
I felt he answered all questions as honestly as possible..
Watching Chip Kelly repeat his routine with the 49ers made me sick, even though I bought in to his stick with the Eagles.
I’m am one that analyses personalities more than players, and I have no negative thoughts towards Pederson the Coach.
It really is rediculous. The presser wasn’t bad. This is what happens in the Philadelphia off season. People need to find a downside.
I usually agree with you Tommy, but this is malarkey. I have no idea how good of a coach Dougie P will be, but this press conference is no indicator.
I disagree — and maybe I’m being ridiculous and unfair, but part of a coach’s job is communicating with the media (sports is an entertainment business after all). No one denies he isn’t hitting it out of the park.
Good piece from Tommy
I have no idea who the Eagles are gonna take, but if I had to bet I’d say they will either move up or back from the 8 spot… Just guessing, but I don’t think they stand pat.
Roseman said they think there are 10 elite prospects in this draft and then there’s a dropoff. Daniel Jeremiah said the exact same thing, btw. Roseman could always lie, but he would have to think about a good explanation why the Eagles chose to trade back and NOT draft an elite prospect. Especially after Howie traded back for MSII.
Now, maybe they trade back a little, to 9, 10, 11 (Howie could then say he saw one of the 10 elite prospects fell and he still got one while gaining picks). But I don’t see a huge trade back. And there would have to be a reason for the other teams to slightly trade up, never forget that.
Looking into my crystal ball, I see Bradford struggling in the pre-season while Daniel’s plays lights out. Throw a high draft pick into the mix and, boom, we have the easiest prediction in the psychic hotline history — the annual Eagles qb controversy.
Like the old NFL saying goes “The backup QB is the most popular player on the team”
I think the crystal ball that says Bradford continues to be a practice/preseason wonder is clearer.
LOL – I want to disagree, but this is his last year for me to see whether or not something clicks. I don’t think any QB would have been successful under the conditions last year, but if the OL is solid (still need a T IMO), there’s no more excuses.
And I’ll have to let the hope that he can be salvaged go down with his career.
Playing wondrously in the preseason doesn’t preclude him from playing well is the season 🙂
Just don’t throw your crystal ball to any of our receivers…
Well done.
I think there is zero chance the Eagles draft a QB in the first round. Signing Bradford and Daniel means that they don’t have to waste a high pick on a quarterback who comes with question marks. Instead, they can draft a stud lineman, linebacker or cornerback and pick a developmental quarterback in the mid to late round.
You can look at that way but I’m here to play the yang to your yin. You saying the Eagles signing Bradford and Daniel means they definitely won’t draft a QB in the first round, yet on the contrary I actually think it means they have now flexibility to draft a QB. If they were to take one of the top QBs in this draft the Eagles have the luxury of not only letting said QB sit for one year but possibly 2 years. Bradford is essentially on a one year deal and Daniel is one a multi year deal. Draft a QB this year, let him sit behind Bradford this year and if he’s ready to start next year you start him if not you have Daniel to be as a stop gap for another year while the QB develops for one more year. My basic premise is the Eagles have set themselves up beautifully to draft a QB this year.
On the other hand, I’ll go back to my original premise that they have given themselves the luxury of drafting 8th to fix other needs since they have checked off the QB box. In this unremarkable QB draft class, getting a QB in the later rounds to develop may ultimately equal what I would consider a wasted pick at the top. Btw, thank you for being civil. In this day and age, it counts for a lot.
Zero chance is a strong statement. HR wanted inside the 10th pick because there are that many he believes are studs. If three qbs are rated on his board….well the odds just jumped up from zero.
If you’re saying there are not 3 qbs in his top 10…then he wouldn’t have he’d to move from 13. I’m not saying he will take a qb….I’m just saying there is someone he wants…and that player wouldn’t have lasted til 13. Odds are better than zero…..
Roseman has done a great job of putting the team in a position to draft whoever they want who’s available at 8. I’d prefer wentz or goff if either is available for the reasons TD states. Finding and grooming a qb is the key. If they’re gone, there will be another great player on the board. No need to reach. There’s always next year. But then the pressure is on to really draft a qb next year if Bradford doesn’t play lights out, and it could take serious resources to go get the qb they want in that situation.
Oh I think there is better than a zero chance.
I don’t know if I feel much better about the QB position. Still yet another new scheme and offensive coordinator for Bradford.
Still is a huge injury risk too. I’d be stunned if Bradford starts 16 GS next year. In fact, I’d be thrilled if he only misses 1 or 2 G.
Peter King at SI is a believer though as he states in his Monday Morning QB column this week:
“I watched a lot of Eagles games last year. In my unprofessional
opinion, they seemed to be running an outdated, rudimentary passing game
disguised by their pace. They ran a lot of deep crossers that required
Bradford to stand in and get blasted. He did, again and again, often
while getting the ball out with velocity and accuracy. And keep in mind,
the Eagles’ receiving corps was doubling as a beach volleyball team the
way they repeatedly hammered the ball into the ground.
The “quarterback competition” buzz around the Chase Daniel signing
seems a bit off. You have to get a quality backup behind Bradford due to
his injury history (and you have to pay to get a quality backup). But
working under Doug Pederson for the next two years, Bradford absolutely
has a chance to be one of the best dozen or so quarterbacks in the NFL.”
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/12/nfl-free-agency-mark-sanchez-denver-broncos-sam-bradford-eagles-olivier-vernon-giants
I’m not buying that Bradford can be that good. More like 15-20. If he a Top 12 guy (even say 10th/11th), this team has a good chance to make the playoffs though including next year.
Is there much difference between 12th and 20th QB?
Good question. For what it is worth:
2015 (by QBR)
12. Fitzpatrick (11th was Brady; 13th was Bridgewater)
20. Rivers (19th was Hoyer; 21st was Winston)
2014 (by QBR)
12. Foles (11th was Manning; 13th was Luck)
20. Newton (19th was A. Smith; 21st was Dalton)
2013 (by QBR)
12. Brady (11th was Wilson; 13th was Romo)
20. Glennon (19th was A. Smith; 21st was Flacco)
2012 (by QBR)
12. Romo (11th was Schaub; 13th was Newton)
20. Dalton (19th was Foles; 21st was Vick)
Yeah I would argue it makes a difference even though this is a very limited SSS and crude way to do it.
QBs at #20 either seemed to either get criticized for their performances or are regarded as marginal QBs that year.
A lot of house holds names generally at #12 and solid QB play. Certainly not a lock to make the playoffs but there is a notable jump in the numbers too.
I don’t know what all goes into QBR. I don’t really trust it or rating either. I don’t know many people that go by QBR or QB Rating by themselves. The top 5 QBs in NFL based on that are now:
Palmer
Ben
Brees
Wilson
Dalton
I thought last year QBs got pushed closer together after top 8-10.
Bradford has an 86.4 rating and Alex Smith was 10th with 95.4. That’s between 10th and 26th. Bradford’s rating was 96 in 2nd half.
Bradford had a lame duck coach, he was rusty, he came off torn ACL, had inexperienced WRs also.
Wow, Alex Smith was 8th in QBR. Cam, Rodgers, and Brady were 9-11.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/espn-qbr-stat-worst-stat-tom-brady-behind-ryan-fitzpatrick-what-is-qbr
SAM can play…. The question with him still remains his health. If he stays healthy over a few yeat stretch, I expect to be a happy fan… Played the position better last year than results suggest. But you won’t be able to see that if you just go off stats and team results..pocket presence, ball placement, kid has a skill level that can be very successful if he ever puts it all together, and a big part of that is healthy continuity.
Pointless mock draft. Before I get blasted for trading down after the team traded up to 8 – Saints offered a 1(12), 2(16) and 3(15). So 6 picks inside the top 100. I in no way want the team to trade back unless there is a ridiculous offer. Ideally would’ve taken more OL but ehh once again, pointless mock.
Round 1 Pick 12 (N.O.): Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
Round 2 Pick 16 (N.O.): Mackensie Alexander, CB, Clemson (A)
Round 3 Pick 14: Su’a Cravens, OLB/SS, Southern California (A+)
Round 3 Pick 15 (N.O.): Joshua Garnett, OG, Stanford (A+)
Round 3 Pick 16: Kenneth Dixon, RB, Louisiana Tech (A+)
Round 4 Pick 2: Kenny Lawler, WR, California (A+)
Round 5 Pick 14: KJ Dillon, SS, West Virginia (B+)
Round 5 Pick 23: Glenn Gronkowski, FB, Kansas State (A+)
Round 6 Pick 13: D.J. Reader, DT, Clemson (B+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Anthony Zettel, DE, Penn State (B+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Halapoulivaati Vaitai, OT, TCU (C-)
Those first 2 picks… Nice
Run the firstpick simulation many times and Garnett doesn’t last until our 3rd round picks very often.
I think the Eagles should definitely draft the 7th round OT just to force the local media to have to spell his name.
Peter King also made a pretty good point here too. Normally I not a huge fan of his column anymore. He doesn’t do much in-depth research and his MMQB feels dated. Maybe it was relevant in say ’05 but not so much anymore in today’s online sports coverage:
“Think the blindside market has cooled off? We’re through the first
week of free agency, and the top left tackles (Donald Penn, Russell
Okung and Kelvin Beachum) are all still sitting on the open market.
You have quarterbacks getting the ball out quicker than ever, and
paranoia over the interior pass rush. But more than anything, just look
at the lack of world-beaters among last year’s final eight teams:
Denver: Ryan Harris
Carolina: Michael Oher
Arizona: Jared Veldheer
New England: Sebastian Vollmer
Kansas City: Eric Fisher
Green Bay: David Bakhtiari
Seattle: Russell Okung
Pittsburgh: Alejandro Villanueva
Veldheer and Okung are quality players, Bakhtiari and Vollmer are
good when healthy (neither was in the playoffs) and Eric Fisher has his
moments. But that collection overall?”
I be curious though to see if the salaries and % of salary cap devoted to LT over say the last 10 years bare this out though.
The advantage of having an elite LT is that you can just leave him 1v1 all game and focus on the rest of the OL when scheming up support.
I think the problem that elite LT’s have these days is teams just leave them alone, stunt the DE/OLB so they are going against interior OL or even against a RB. Think all the stunting and exotic interior blitzes is causing athletic and skill guards to be more and more important since you need to be able to pass off a DT, reset and take a LB or DE smoothly to be effective in pass protection.
Eagles needed a pair of elite Tackles since Chip was happy to leave just 5 guys blocking and if you do not have a pair of good tackles that is a way to get your QB killed. Think we do not need quite the same level of Tackle in a west coast scheme because you have your TE in line to chip and help with the DE/OLB in pass pro.
LT vs RT is ancient.. Doesnt matter much today… Your LT can’t help you when Monsters like JJ Watt and VON Miller come from the other side..
.
Devaluing any posituon in TODAYS game is a mistake. Every position can be a game changer if you have a good enough player..
..
Today more than ever, you need two quality Bookend tackles, not a LT who is so much better than your RT
I feel like the Patriots would have won the Super Bowl this year with a better offensive line
Tommy I’m curious what you thought of Hogan at combine. I saw a handful of throws and he looked terrible. I had read he’s overhauling his long throwing motion. He really scares me above the 6th-7th round now.
Don’t be afraid, embrace the Hogan.
Hug the Hogan. No don’t make me …
Adam Caplan
@caplannfl
2m2 minutes ago
#Bears announced: Agreed to 2-year deal with DT Akiem Hicks.
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Silly mock draft time. Used 1st pick.
Your score is: 9432 (GRADE: A+)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 13 (MIA): Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
Round 2 Pick 11 (MIA): William Jackson III, CB, Houston (A)
Round 2 Pick 29 (N.E.): Joshua Garnett, OG, Stanford (A)
Round 4 Pick 2: Javon Hargrave, DT, South Carolina State (A)
Round 4 Pick 9 (MIA): Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 19 (BUF): Paul Perkins, RB, UCLA (A-)
Round 5 Pick 14: Joe Schobert, OLB, Wisconsin (A+)
Round 5 Pick 23: Malcolm Mitchell, WR, Georgia (A+)
Round 6 Pick 13: Charone Peake, WR, Clemson (A+)
Round 7 Pick 12: D.J. Pettway, DE, Alabama (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: KeiVarae Russell, CB, Notre Dame (A+)
The first 7 off the board were Tunsil, Bosa, Treadwell, Ramsy, Apple, Jack, and Stanley. I don’t personally see Treadwell and Apple going in the top 5 but supposedly some rate Apple higher than Hargreaves and Hargreaves is a popular mock pick for Jacksonville. Would have willingly taken one of the QBs at 8. I could live with Hargreaves or Elliott there but don’t feel like it’s great value. Was offered Miami’s 1st, 2nd, and 4th to trade down to 13. Probably not realistic, but hey your argument with Miami is it will take a lot for us to move out of top 10. Dolphins took Elliott, Buckner and A’Shawn Robinson went 9th and 11th, Raiders traded up with Giants to take Hargreaves and the Saints took Goff. Had to take Carson Wentz at 13.
In the 2nd, I felt that William Jackson was better value than the OTs that were still available(LeRaven Clark and Shon Coleman). I tried to trade up to land one of the two OTs but was unsuccessful. I then targeted Garnett who I think is a tier above the other OGs that might be available in the 3rd round. I eventually ended up trading picks 77 and 79 to the Bills for pick 60(they had acquired it from NE) and pick 117.
In the 4th round, Hargrave is exactly the type of raw, physical DT that Schwartz would love. OT tackles were slim at this point, so I grabbed Haeg with my next pick. Probably not athletic enough for LT but he could be the RT eventually or at worst a backup guard. Went with Perkins at RB. The ranks of good players there were thinning and one of the Eagles’ draft guys on twitter whose opinion I respect thinks Perkins is a good fit for what he expects the Eagles to do on offense.
In the 5th round, Schobert played WLB in the 4-3 in college but is probably a better fit as a SLB in a 4-3 or a 3-4 ILB. Thought he was good value here. Then went with a bigger WR in Mitchell since the Eagles seem to want to add size to the position.
Went back to the receiver well in the 6th round with Charon Peake. I considered him over Mitchell in Rd 5. I don’t really see much of a chance he makes it to the 6th round in the real draft.
By Rd 7, my knowledge of the players is pretty minimal. I wanted DE depth and Pettway seemed like the best value and you can never have too many CBs.
I like almost every player. Seems high for Hargrave maybe but that’s picky. Garnett is more beef. Wentz and Jackson would be exciting but I wouldn’t have nerve to pass on him at 8. You’re saying that’s your guy at QB, you don’t mess around but I love Jackson pick.
I like Haeg (Wentz’s LT who is probably a guard in NFL I agree), Perkins, Big Mitts Mitchell too. KC took Conley from Georgia last year I think.
Wow, Russell in the 7th seems like a steal. I know he had the broken leg and some character concerns but damn, that kid can play!
I’m staying out of the trade down world with the #1 because of what we just did to trade up.
But I like the approach on players.
Round 1 Pick 8: Jared Goff, QB, California (A+)
Round 3 Pick 14: Kenneth Dixon, RB, Louisiana Tech (A+)
Round 3 Pick 16: Christian Westerman, OG, Arizona State (A)
Round 4 Pick 2: Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B)
Round 5 Pick 14: Travis Feeney, OLB, Washington (A)
Round 5 Pick 23: Kevon Seymour, CB, Southern California (A+)
Round 6 Pick 13: Tyvis Powell, FS, Ohio State (B+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Yannick Ngakoue, OLB, Maryland (A)
Round 7 Pick 30: Luther Maddy, DT, Virginia Tech (B+)
I’m really starting to be sold on Ezekiel Elliott at #8. Seems like a sure thing to be a top tier RB, he’s tough, and should lock down that position for the foreseeable future.
Montana – Craig (2nd round), Elway – Davis (6th round), Aikman – Smith (1st round), Warner – Faulk (2 overall), Roethlisberger – Bettis (10th overall), Wilson – Lynch (12 overall).
(Brady – who cares, he is Tom Brady… , Peyton Manning had James but no superbowls with him, but also he is Peyton Manning.)
These guys are some of the great, superbowl winning QBs of past 30 years, and a lot of them were paired with a great running back.
The greatest QB not to win a superbowl is often said to be Marino, and one thing that Marino does not have in common with the above is being paired with a great running back.
Dan Marino – ???
Marino had a full career of nobodies at running back. Tony Nation (3rd round), Lorenzo Hampton (1st round), Sammie Smith (9th overall – ended up in prison), Mark Higgs (8th round), Terry Kirby (3rd round), Bernie Parmalee (undrafted), Karim Abdul-Jabbar (3rd round), Lawrence Phillips (6th overall by St.Louis – ended up in prison), Cecil Collins (5th round),
The lesson is not really whether or not a 1st round pick is worth a running back, or if later rounds can deliver a Davis routinely. But just to see what happens when a team has a great QB but then whiffs on running backs year after year after year. If it is hard to pick a great RB in the first round, it is even harder in the later rounds.
If Roseman thinks Elliott is a once in a few years talent, with no signs of future likely jail time or other issues, then it would be worth the 8th pick to lock down the RB position for the next 7 years.
Well, Gurley had a scary injury history, at the RB position, and was chosen #10 overall. And after his Rookie season, he was well worth that. Have to see how durable he is (one great season isn’t enough to justify a Top 10 pick), but that’s what I’d call a once in a few years talent, maybe even a once a generation talent (the generation before would have been AP).
Elliot will probably be a good player. But 8 is too high for him. I think he will go between 12 and 20. And he should get his team good value there.
Bet no eagle fan would be laughing today if the Giants drafted Gurley instead of Flowers
Right. Maybe we’d be laughing in 2 years, if Gurley would have his 3rd major injury by then. But not right now.
I really have nothing against Elliot, I just think he’s not quite there, talent wise, where Gurley is.
I’d be curious to see where Miami’s defense was ranked during those years. Riggins and Morris(two name a couple) of rb’s on Superbowl winning teams. Brady/Peyton had tremendous defenses. They didn’t win because “well, he’s Peyton”. Not so good younger brother wont 2 SB’s with who at RB? It’s a nice list – just seems half a story….
Running backs are fun. I’d be excited about it. But I seriously doubt Howie Roseman is going to spend an 8th pick on a running back. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Elliot is not on Howie’s top ten list.
After Richardson I am petrified to take a RB that early, especially from Alabama. They tend to have a highly dominant run blocking OL going against less dominate players. Taking that away from Ezekiel may not make him as dominate of a player.
I just think you can find a very good RB in later rounds while still drafting a stud at 8.
Besides late round G, late round RBS seem to have more success then any other later round positional groups, and the higher sucess rare of late round G’s can partially be attributed to the fact that there are simply two starting G’s on a team as opposed to one starting RB.
The cream of the crop picks will be gone within first 5. After that you’re projecting, or reaching for a QB.
I’d rather go with a safe choice with Elliott. Also, Elliott is from Ohio State, idk how good their line is. I’m not advocating Derrick Henry at #8, even though he also had a great college career and looks good on tape. I think with Elliott it’s obvious that he is special.
I accidently confused Elliot with Henry when I wrote the comment. Brain fart. OSU does have a very strong run blocking OL. My points besides the brain fart with Henry and Elliot still stand.
I think all of the QBS in this draft are a reach within the top 10. I am not fond of any of them, and I don’t se one as NFL ready. The reason they would be taken in the top 10 is simply due to the need at the position and lack of other options. I do think it is possible that teams may smarten up and draft none of them in the top 10. Doubt it due to the need at the position, but I do think this year it is possible.
“Dominant” is the adjective you’re looking for. “Dominate” is a verb.
Nice comment grammar police.
It’s actually a vocabulary issue, not grammar…
Thanks teacher. Have fun correcting people.
Someone’s got to pick up where the Philadelphia school system left off…
Yes, I don’t have time to review my posts all the time while juggling being at work and 2 kids, plus hiding it from my wife while we are watching a movie or TV.
Elliot played at OSU. Point about monster OL still stands though. He’s really good but like you said the value is really bad, next year is a really good RB class, RBs have a short shelf life. I just can’t see Howie doing it.
its a MUST hit first round pick for HOWIE.. id love to have Zeke.. but i think the risk to howies future might be to high to risk taking a rb/wr at 8 if a legit OL/D prospect is sitting there… if a QB is there they like.. jeez could get dicey..
They’re all getting fired in three years if they dont’ have a better plan than “well maybe Sam suddenly becomes good”
the ole.. wait & see game
Lol sorry, I had a brain fart and confused him with Henry while speaking of where he played.
Mike Mayock called Trent Richardson the best running back to enter the draft since Adrian Peterson. He was supposed to be a sure thing, too.
Mike Mayock is an overenthusiastic blowhard.
True, but that doesn’t make Elliot less of a risk.
Yet he is better the rest of the idiots on tv like Kiper.Elliott still isn’t worth the 8th pick overall. That’s too much of a luxury considering this team still had holes to fill.
Mike Mayock says officially became horse shit when he compared Wentz to luck
Nothing is a sure thing, Elliott wouldn’t be my first choice but if Stanley, Jack, Ramsey, Tunsil, and the QBs are gone, I’d take him.
Oh hell no, I see Prisco in his latest mock has the Eagles taking Lynch.
On Twitter, Jesus Zoidberg (a great follow) posted this list of former safe, can’t miss RBs picked in the top 10.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=1995&year_max=2015&type=&round_min=1&round_max=1&slot_min=1&slot_max=10&league_id=&team_id=&pos_new=rb&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all&order_by=
I am so conflicted on Zeke, I love him as a player, but my head says RB is nearly as risky as QB in the 1st round, and has no where near the same impact…. but i luv me some zeke….
That list is every top-10 RB taken in the last 20 years. All of them were sure things. How many of those guys would you want us using #8 to have on our team? AP, LT, maybe Jamal Lewis, and so far Gurley, based on a single season.
What the last 50 Runningbacks did have NOTHING to do with ZEKE elliot… Wanna rip him, find his flaws to rip him over,, can’t rip playërs because what another player did…. Find something that has to do with ZEKE to hold against him
I am sorry you do not see the value in the information above. For me, it is an important cautionary tale.
It is, but there are always exceptions, and for me a GM missing out on a special player proving to be The exception because of what other players did in the past is unacceptable, just like it’s unacceptable to draft a bust..
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I think precedent is important, but you can’t be such a slave to it that it causes you to miss out on special playërs..
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Im sure every GM knows the historic stats behind everything, but for me, I can’t excuse missimg out on a transcendent talent just because historically a certain position hasn’t panned out… If all you had to do was go by what happened In the past, any GM can do that…. Every player is different, and they all need to be judged individually..
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Doubt you can find any year since 2000 where you have seen me think it was a good idea for us to draft a Rb in round 1.. I’ll save you the trouble, this is the first year I have ever considered it, and that’s because there is a kid who I think can be Soecial enough to buck tradition…
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I think the past is important and generally i believe you shouldn’t draft RB, Center or Guard that early, but there will always be spcial exceotions, and I hole we have a scouting department that can see the exceptions when they present themselves
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It’s rare that I agree with drafting a RB in round 1, but for me, I hope our GM ISNT afraid to draft Special playërs when the opportunity presents itself… All I ask, is that if our GM is going to draft a Guard, RB, or Center in the top 10 because he sees a transcendent talemt, he better be right!.. Drafting Trent Richardson should be a FIREABLE offense,…
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If HOWIE passes on what will become a great RB to draft a good player at another position, for me THATS not acceptable either… At #8 I want a special player who will go on to be one of our 5 best players, THATS hard enough to find in this inexact science, it becomes much much harder if you start factoring in positions into the equation… Finding a great player at any position is a challenge, when you start asking a GM to find a great player and factor positipns into the equation, you are lowering our odds at hitting on a transcendent player, increasing our chances of making a mistake
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I see nothing wrong with being aware of historical precedent while still asking your GM to make a true and Fair evaluation of each prospect, and simply draft whoever the highest graded kid is….. If there is a higher rated player than Zeke, Then I don’t want us to draft Zeke…. There are always exceptions, can’t be such a slave to history that it causes you to miss out on a special exception
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I ask for a great trancendant player at #8 regqrdless of position, And I would hope that a fellow eagle fan would want The same thing.
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draft is for adding the best talent for the future… free agency is for targeting specific positions that fill immediate needs. Not that complicated,
I think part of Miami doing the trade is that they wanted to draft ZEKE at #8, and now think they have a shot at getting him at #13
I think Pederson is fine when it comes to speaking to his players. Players reportedly like him very much, and he had the social skills to assist in recruiting Bradford back. Having cameras in front of you with the knowledge that thousands if not millions are judging you on the other side is totally different then speaking to your team so I give him a pass on that. To add, I think one of the main reasons he was hired was because of his ability to speak to his players, which is a stark contrast from Kelly.
As a QB and someone that Reid brought in to mentor a young QB I would have to assume he has some type of leadership ability. Reid is a good coach and decided to bring him along twice in two different roles. I do think that does mean something. Reid was good with his players, so I would assume he would surround himself with like minded people.
We should all be nervous with him as HC due to the fact his only track record as far as HC goes is on the high school level. With that being said I do think he will be a good HC for us. He isn’t trying to do to much. He hired a very good and proven DC to handle that side of the ball. His other assistant coaches have NFL experience and many of them are very well respected, furthermore many of them have experience with this team. He surrounded himself with very strong advisors and generals so to speak, which is a very smart and encouraging move for a first time HC.
I wonder if Cataldi will start a Draft Elliot movement and go to New York and boo Vernon Hargreaves
I could actually see Cataldi doing that even though draft is in Chicago.
No we have to go full circle, Wentz falls to 8 after the Browns trade for Kaepernick, and both he and Elliot are on the board. That’s when you boo Wentz at the draft.
No one will boo Hargreves more than me
I love how he still defends it 17 years later. “We weren’t booing McNabb we were booing the organization” But the organization made the right decision. He doesn’t acknowledge that.
Benjamin Allbright tweeted in response to someone that the market for Nick Fairley was down to the Eagles, Jets, and Saints. He has a good, not perfect, track record so I tend to believe that news now vs. the sources who reported it before.
Allbright banned me on Twitter. He must have mixed me up with someone, because I never trolled him, not even a little bit. I generally don’t Tweet very often.
I really thought about finding a way to tell him to unblock me, because he’s a great follow. I don’t know who his source is, but he seems to be in the loop when it comes to the Eagles. He was last year and he still is (one of the first who had info on the compensation on the Dolphins trade). Has to be a scout who was here last year, Smolenski or even Roseman himself.
In an interview albright last week revealed that he is a really good source in the eagle front office but that his source is pissed that he released the #8 pick from miami compensation when he did….the source called Albright and thats when he took the original tweet down
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Im not sure if he is as plugged in around the league, or if someone working for the Eagles happens to be one of his better sources… We also don’t know how plugged in he will be since he pissed his source off..
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He said this all last week on Philly sports radio
The last thing I “hope for” is Wentz or Goff being available at #8…
If Cleveland lands Kap then there’s a chance (barring any trades). The eagles will still have to trade up if they are in love with one of them. I am secretly rooting for a first round qb this year.
Plausible for sure… But I can also make a case for why Hue Jackson would want a kid like Kaepernick, if he has his eyes on a project like Wentz. Kap would allow them to not have to rush Wemtz onto the field, and Hue could also look at it as Kaeps value is in the toilet, so maybe try and build his value back up while Wentz is learning on the bench, and once Wentz is ready to take over, the Browns may be able to trade KAp for more than they paid for him getting him out of San Fran..
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Of course it’s also plausible that trading for Kaep allows them to take another position at #2, and go with a project like Cardale or Hackenberg later in the draft
Either way Kaep won’t keep them from having to dump a top 100 pick into The QB position, but it might keep them from spending the #2 pick on a QB…
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I think the best odds would go to both QBs being drafted in the top 10, but it also wouldnt shock me if both QBs fell out of the top 10 with Browns, Niners, Eagles and all the top 10 teams thinking they can get a QB later in the draft, but that’s probably not likely… I can see chip being crazy enough to want to pass on a QB at #7 to go with Gabbert and a QB later in the draft, but I have a hard time believing that Baalke would go along with that crazy plan. drafting a QB high seems to be often used as a strategy for Coaches and GMs on the hot seat to squeeze an extra year or two of job security out of the owner
I wouldn’t have a problem with trading a future 1st to move up for Wentz.
Two first round picks for guys who are only top 5 QB prospects because there is no real Jameis, Mariota type elite QB prospects? God I hope not…
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I don’t want either, but I can’t complain if Wentz falls to them at 8 and they take him… But these kids aren’t even Close to the type of QB prospects you package multiple picks for especially two first rounders..
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Id much rather just give Cleveland our 1st round pick straight up for their first rounder next year positioning us to have a chance at drafting a better QB prospect in the top 4 next year, rather than spend a top 10 pick on a QB I don’t love…
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They wanna take a QB at 8, I will shut up and support them because they gave me bradford who I wanted and Replaced Sanchez with Chase which I saw a lot of value in…. But they BETTER NOT DARE package picks for Wentz or Goff..
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If we have to package picks, go get ramsey and turn our secondary into a strength
Why? Both have QBOTF potential.
My hope is Wentz as he has higher ceiling than Goff and sitting for a year or two behind Bradford+Daniel would be great.
If we get Goff, just trade Bradford straight away
Tell me your top 8 board for the Eagles. I’m curious as to how you guys have Bosa, Buckner, Goff, Elliot, Stanley, and Hargreaves ranked.
Goff
Wentz
Tunsil
Ramsey
Stanley
Jack
Bosa
Alexander
VH3
Lawson
I know I don’t want Wetz,Goff, hargreaves and Bosa,,
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Wish list ranking:
1) tunsil
2) ramsey
3) Jack
4) Buckner
5) Zeke
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Stanley is the one Guy that im still conflicted about…. Being able to add a quality RT who can sit on the bench for a year and learn behind JP and Lane would be great, but I can’t shake the feeling that Stanley might be closer to Conklin than he is to Tunsil…. Not sure yet if I would put stanley behind ZEKE or after him.. Even before we got the 8th pick I wondered if stanley was being overrated and if we would end up seeing him go in the 11-15 range… Still can’t figure stanley out
“Not sure yet if I would put stanley behind ZEKE or after him..”
You sound pretty sure.
Not at all… I currently have no opinion of Stanley at 8, if it happened today I wouldn’t cheer it or rip it, because I have no idea what to think of him at this point…
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If Stanley goes on to be a Runyan type RT, then I absolutely put him ahead of Zeke…. But I also haven’t forgotten everyone going Gaga over Eric Fisher as some can’t miss elite OT prospects.. I had the same concerns about him that I have with Stanley, how did that work out
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Even so, having Zeke as 5th on my wish list iisnt exactly pounding the table to draft him at all costs, but thanks for asking
HISTORICAL PRECEDENT IS UNIMPORTANT!
-Literally you 10 minutes ago
I was just amused by the mis-wording.
Don’t let me stop your amusement
1. Wentz
2. Tunsil
3. Ramsey
4. Jack
5. Bosa
6. Hargreaves
7. Buckner
8. Stanley
Hopefully today is the day we sigń a corner, nolan is ideal for me…. People talk about the Patrik Robinson kid, but Im not familiar with his game.
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So far this offseason has been excellent, but I can’t relax and really enjoy it while we have this giant hole at starting Corner…once they sigń A credible outside corner like Nolan, I will be able to relax and not care about the rest of free agency…
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Hate to screw up all the great work we have done by doing something as dysfunctional as to go into a draft without having two starting Corners… CB is like the last position besides QB that I want to count on a rookie for….
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I really don’t like losing ascending playërs who are still improving like Nolan, especially guys who we can count on to work his ass off to be better during the offseason. bring Nolan Home today Howie!!
I wonder how much Nolan’s value is at, $5-6 million/year?
I have no clue…. I assume we are still in close contact with his agent, probably told Nolan to go find out what his value is, but before he signs with anyone, give us the chance to match…. Hopefully no one offers significantly more than the value we have assigned to him
Dear Lawlor, I really like your texts! I fell that I’ve been learned more about football every time that I read them. But sometimes I miss some kind of criticism of what might be being done wrong by Eagles’ coaches or in the administration of our team. I know that trying to understand all the moves, by finding a justification for them, is a really good exercise, but sometimes, as a reader, I think that would be good to have information like “I don’t agree with this because of that” or “I think that this is a bad decision because of this”. I noticed this in your texts especially when you posted on twitter that Roseman was getting rid of Chip’s mistakes. Then I remember of reading every text yours from the time Chip was in Philly and I never saw a real critic of what he was doing wrong. You were always supporting Chip’s strategies and explaining to us why they make sense. But now, we can point a lot of mistakes that Kelly did. I don’t know if I’m expressing myself well and I hope that you don’t get me wrong. I do this because I really admire your work and I have a tremendous respect for your opinion.
That said, I would like to know what you think about the salaries of our QBs. Don’t you think we are overpaying them since McNabb’s eras? Maybe we can believe that Bradford can rule this team and, considering the circumstances, it was necessary to keep him in Philly. But if Sam don’t play better this year Eagles will paying a lot of money for nothing. For Daniels is even worse, since he only played two games as a starter and all that story of keeping the seat warmed is strange since both players has never proven anything at the NFL level. Well, I’m really rooting for Bradford, but it seems to much money in a difficult situation. Even considering that we can draft a young QB to develop it.
Sorry for the long text.
For such a stacked DL draft, Is it really possible that only Bosa and Buckner go top 10 which seems to be the mock consensus?.. Nkemdiche and Noah Spence Charechter concerns Kill any chance of going top 10, but after denver won the SUPERBOWL with edge pressure and DE is already one of the top 3 most valued positions in the game, can Bosa really be the only DE that goes top 10? I see Buckner more as a 3-4 DE/4-3 DT.. Wonder if someone like Lawson from Clemson ends up taking Hargreaves, Zeke or Stanlys spot in the top 10?
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I also find it a little odd that with all these great DT prospcts, only Buckner ends up going top 10? Wonder if one of the handful of DTs slated to go in the 11-20 range end up sneaking into the top 10? I don’t know when that Rankins kid is supposed to be drafted but he is nasty
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When does the first 3-4 OLB come off the board? I assume it would be the kid from Georgie, no?
can a team turn around and Immediately trade away a player that it just acquired in a trade? Of does a certain amount of time have to go by before you can trade a guy that you just traded for?
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I ask because I can’t help shake the feeling that Sanchez will end up in San Fran, as part of a Trade that brings Kaepernick to the Broncos,,, something like Sanchez and 3rd to the niners for Kaepernick..
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Makes sense that Chip would go with Gabbert, sanchez and a Rookie…. sanchez would be Chips very own “chase Daniel” that already knows his offense and Practice style and can help bridge the gap between chip and the players who chip will ask to practice and have a different weekly routine than anything they experienced in the past.
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Allegedly Kaep actually wants to go to the Browns, but he wants much more money than what cleveland is willing to pay him, hopefully Kaep ends up having to go to Denver almòst ensuring that The Browns take Wentz or Goff
I don’t understand Kevin Hogan at the #5 spot for QBs. His arm is incredibly weak, and most guys with that weak of arms never have a shot at starting.
Just it of curiosity. If Matt Barkley were coming out this year where would you have him on that list? Also where is Matt Barkley?
Arizona