RB Rumors
Posted: April 15th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 156 Comments »Another day, another set of Eagles rumors.
Ohio State RB Ezekiel Elliott said he feels the #Eagles are showing the most interest. Philly swapped first rounders w/#Dolphins last month.
— James Walker (@JamesWalkerNFL) April 15, 2016
This report made one person very happy…Howie Roseman. I’m sure the Eagles do have legit interest in Elliott, but Roseman has to love this getting reported. If the Eagles are sitting at 8 and some team covets Elliott, it will make that team think strongly about moving up.
This also helps to confuse the other 31 teams as to who the Eagles really do want to draft. Is Wentz their target? Goff? Is it possible that Roseman actually wants a RB that early?
Sometimes you spend draft night waiting for your guy to fall to you. Other times you have to move up. And then there are those times when all your key targets get picked and the smart move is trading back. The less other teams know about your true intentions, the easier it is to get the results you want.
Teams can ignore reports from NFL insiders because they know some of those reports are completely bogus. Teams having interest in players can be bogus as well, but it is much harder dismiss these reports. No matter what you think about the Eagles taking a RB early, the team has spent a lot of time on Elliott and made him feel like a key target for the team.
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BGN posted an interesting item from Tony Pauline. According to Pauline, if the Eagles do draft Elliott, they might trade Ryan Mathews and the two teams most interested are SF and Dallas. The Eagles might be reluctant to deal Mathews to Dallas because they’re a division rival and SF because of the presence of Chip Kelly.
I can believe the Eagles would be hesitant about dealing a good player to Dallas. I cannot think the team would honestly have any issues with dealing Mathews to SF. Kelly isn’t in charge of that team. Roseman would negotiate with their GM, Trent Baalke.
I don’t understand the logic behind trading Mathews, if this report is true. If you go draft Elliott, he is going to be your feature back. But you need a good backup. Are you going to stick with Kenjon Barner and Darren Sproles? Keeping Mathews for a year would seem to be the wise move. Or the Eagles could sign someone to be the backup to Elliott and then use Sproles and Barner as role players.
Honestly, I still don’t have a good feel for what the Eagles are doing at RB.
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Want more schedule talk?
Jimmy Bama wrote a good piece on the advantages and disadvantages of the Eagles 2016 schedule.
I just can’t get too fired up about the schedule. A lot will change between now the NFL regular season. For example, are the Eagles playing against Dallas with Romo or without him? Little details like that end up making a huge difference.
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[…] Tommy Lawlor Another day, another set of Eagles rumors. Ohio State RB Ezekiel Elliott said he feels the #Eagles […]
Not too worried about the schedule. It always looks different once you get close to the games. Also not worried about teams having bye weeks before playing the Eagles. And can’t beat hosting the division in December.
Now if we only had a good enough team to believe in…
I agree. If our team is good enough, the schedule takes care of itself.
I figure Wentz and Goff are top two selections in either order. I also think there are 6 top tier talents not counting Lynch, who I like more than most. That said, one is a running back and another is a 3-4 DE, and many would not draft one or both. There are also character questions with another.
The other 3 are unlikely to still be on the board.
Would I draft Zeke? Damn right I would. Even considering how many high profile failures there have been at running back. If there is a guy with a good chance to be great, you take that chance as opposed to a safer choice with less upside.
He also checks the boxes for needing a weapon on offense, and for needing a starting running back.
This is not a tough call for me.
Buckner, now he’s excellent, but not sure if the Eagles can make him fit. Someone probably would make a pretty good trade offer at that point, though.
Well said….
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Im not pounding The table to draft Zeke, there are a few kids I want much more… But I am pounding the table to not pass on Zeke for a lower graded prospect at some other position…
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I think at #8, we will be chosing from the last 1 or 2 top tier prospects left. I would hate to pass on the remaining top tier talents, so that we can draft a kid at the top of the next tier… I would hate to take a tier two CB (or whatever position people value more) while passing on a Tier 1 RB..
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I think this pick is going to be very simple for Roseman. Sit at #8, watch the top 7 unfold, and chose between the remaining 1 or 2 top tier talents left on the board.
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Tier 1:
1) Goff
2) Wentz
3) Ramsey
4) Jack
5) Bosa
6) Buckner
7) Tunsil
8) stanley
9) Zeke
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That’s my guess for the top tier playërs, choose between the two that are left over. would hate to miss out on a GREAT RB, for a Good player at a position we value more
Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t have Stanley in tier 1, otherwise same as my top tier
I just want to say I can’t stand the so called “National Pundits” coming out and saying the Eagles will be 5-11 or 6-10. WTF do they know! They do not follow this team like we do. It is an absolute joke to predict a record prior to the draft. Our roster is going to look very different in late August after final cuts. Am I the only one that believes our team is going to be much better on defense ? I also think our offense has a chance to be fairly prolific with an improved O-line and ascending talent at both TE and WR. I can’t wait until we prove people wrong and compete to both win the division and a playoff game this year!
Maybe if the eagles had a qb that didn’t suck they would get some national love.
They might not have a great QB, but they don’t have a QB that sucks. “He sucks” is thrown around way too easily by people who have no perspective on what bad play actually looks like.
Bradford being just a guy who isn’t good enough to really elevate a team vs. Bradford being Mark Sanchez, Mike McMahon, and/or Bobby Hoying is a big difference.
I am an eagles fan I am an aficionado on crappy qb play. Sam is crappy.
You must not watch the NFL at all if you think Sam is crappy. Is he great? no. Is he even good? Maybe not. Debatable. What’s not debatable is that he is not crappy by any sane measure. There are a lot of crappy quarterbacks out there. Sam is easily a tier or two above complete crap.
Hyperbole is fun but it’s not real.
If you are not good and you are not great then you are?
Bad? Correct. He is a bottom third tier QB in the NFL. Crappy is a way to describe those qbs.
There’s mediocre, poor, crappy, etc. If you have a 2-level system, awesome and crappy, then fine. You win. Not the most accurate view of reality, but if it works for you, then that’s great.
”lf you ain’t first, you’re last.”
“Oh, hell, Ricky,I was high when I said that. That doesn’t make any sense at all.’You’re first or last.’ You can be second, you can be third, fourth. Hell, you can even be fifth.”
I clearly just said there is a three level system. If the majority of people in your profession are better than you at it should you be commended?
No. Sam is not a good QB and I would go as far as to say that only the broncos and jets are worse off than the eagles right this second at QB.
Now the browns could be stupid and not draft the qb they need and file in line behind us but the situation in philly is pretty bleak we have a Qb entering his 7th season who has yet to put any anything resembling adequate QB play for a team seeking a title.
Now you want to be cute and attack my vernacular to describe said player but the truth of the matter is that Sam is not a good QB. He is not the answer, hell the eagles don’t seem to think so either if you believe rumors. So why defend a bottom of the rung player? Oh no I said Sam sucked. He does.
Nope. You’re wrong.
Nope. I am right.
Now you’re wrong twice.
I on the other hand enjoy that the Eagles are flying under the radar this offseason.
Agree. I prefer them talking bad about us even tho I disagree
I don’t see how adding talent on o-line, upgrading the coaching systems, and keeping many part the same would equate to being worse than last year’s 7-9. I don’t see anything worse with this team. They might not be any better either, but 5-11 is a tad rude.
Upgrade the coaching system? Maybe, but I don’t think national writers can be expected to think that Doug Pederson (who?) is an automatic upgrade of coaching systems.
There’s not really anything to suggest the offense will be prolific. I agree, trying to predict records at this stage is foolhardy. Still, I’m not expecting much from this team this year. They are, after all, in the midst of a rebuild.
Most draft experts ( if such a thing exists) consider zeke a more talented player than Stanley yet most iggles fans want the less talented player supposedly because it’s the safer pick. At 8 you take the guy with the higher season …it’s a no brainer. My favorite player in the draft is Treadwell but no way I take him at 8 over a more talented player. All I keep hearing is rbs are devalued..blah..blah blah…next year the RB class is stacked blah..blah. who knows where those so called elite backs will be next year…injuries, regressing to the mean etc. You take the more talented player at 8 period! What do you think franchises like the steelers, Packers, ravens,seahawks would do??…exactly!…ignore the noise take the best player and move on. If its zeke..then it’s zeke. He’s the best at his position in this draft by a mile. How can you be pissed by drafting the best anything??…I just don’t get it
Yeah, those damn Packers, Steelers, Ravens and Seahawks and all their top 10 picks spent on RBs and the succes those RBs brought them…
Not like those teams play good defense and have at least above average QBs, and thats why they’re continuously succesfull…
Its the RBs, which is why the team with sure in HoF RB “Purple Jesus” Adrian “All Day” Peterson(because he is so good you can’t leave him without his nicknames), has been so dominant for his entire career, multiple rings and a almost a 100% succes of making the playoff. Obviously he had to compete with other top 20 rushing leaders Frank Gore and Steven Jackson for those Super Bowls, because no playoffs without the Rams and the 49ers..
you missed my point .i’ts not about the RB. it’s about drafting the BPA. if the iggles think stanley is BPA..then fine draft him. but most don’t think stanley is top 10 but zeke is almost a consensus top 8 pick. some have him as the best overall player in the draft. btw steelers, ravens and seahawks. had pretty good rb’s when they won the superbowl.
A RB is never BPA in the first round, similar to a kicker or punter.
Werent Marshawn Lynch and Eddie Lacey round 1 RBs? Laveon Bell wasn’t exactly a 5th round pick… Seattle wouldn’t have a Super Bowl rimg of it wasn’t for their round 1 RB…
Marshawn Lynch was a first round draft pick yes, but Seattle plaid a 4th and a 5th for him, albeit with issues. Still, 4 years into your career and you’re value goes from a number 12 pick to 4th/5th after 2 1000 yards rushing seasons? Even with Character issues, that should tell how much value RBs have.
LeVeon Bell was picked in the middle of the second round, which I totally can get behind. I’ve said dont pick a RB in the first round, I could even get behind breaking that and selecting a RB in the later first round, if you have a huge need and theres no other option, either in terms of another player you like or an acceptable trade offer. You’re talking about taking Elliott 40 picks before Bell went, and 55 picks before Eddie Lacy.
I’d love to add Ezekiel Elliott to the Eagles, absolutely love too. Just not at pick number 8. If we trade back and get him, even if thats still in the first round, fine, because then you got Zeke and the value from the trade.
The only situation I would consider a RB at 8, if he was similar, but better than Brian Westbrook, but from a bigger school and thus better competition. I’m not just talking about a good RB, who can block and maybe even is good catching the ball out of the backfield. I’m talking a legit weapon in the passing game with the full ability to line up as a WR and be as effective as other WRs. Also a guy who is a really good returner, both kickoffs and punts. And even then, a top 10 pick? I dont know, because how long ago has it been since a team build around a single RB won the Super Bowl. As good as Marshawn Lynch was for the Seahawks, putting that all on him with a literally historic defense and Russ Wilson.
Obviously, you need a broad and well rounded team to win the ring, that includes a running game, even a running game you’d built with considerable resources at RB and the OL. But i’m just seeing way to many good prospects at more important positions in this draft, that i’d rather add, even though Zeke might be the best player. Similarly, I’m sure theres a motherfucker of a kicker or punter prospect in the draft. I’m not spending a high pick on him, even though another stupid team might. Hows Anger working out for the succes of Jacksonville?
I acctually think Stanley is the less safe of the two since recently reading about his lousy work ethic. I dont think people in general think Stanley is safer, just that he is an OT which holds more positional value then a RB.
I’ll speak for myself on this, but others might have other views.
I don’t think Zeke is that level of talent. Greg Cossell said that Zeke is not the “clear cut” best back in this draft and thinks Jonathan Williams from Arkansas (a 3rd / 4th round player) is just as good. I think Zeke had the luxury of running behind 4 and 5 start recruits on Ohio State’s O-line vs. some very shoddy Ds in the Big 10. So I don’t see Zeke as a transcendent talent at RB.
I also heavily question the positional value of RB as a top 10 pick unless that guy is really head and shoulders above everybody else. Tomlinson, Peterson, and Gurley are guys I’d take in the top 10; Zeke is a 16 to 24 type guy in how i look at RBs. They don’t have long careers, they a very blocking dependent in their production (look at 2014 Murray vs. 2015 Murray), and when one looks at the pro bowl rosters for RB there doesn’t seem to be a need to draft a RB in the top 10 to get good production from the RB position.
In contract, I think Stanley is great and I seem his both a better player and safer pick than Elliot.
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Murray has always been a North-South runner and those type of runners need some room to get going. Elliot is the clear cut best RB in this draft and Cosell should get his eyes checked. Williams didn’t run over Alabama or Oregon when they had Bucker + Armstead. I don’t need to mention his asinine Wentz and Luck comparison.
We’ll have to leave it at the fact that you, and a lot / most folks here, have a higher level of comfort with Elliot than I do. I just can’t talk myself into him at 8. If we get him by trading into the teens, I can handle that. Don’t hate the guy, just don’t see his as good enough for a top 10 pick.
I’ll just say that Zeke can do everything. The shit Cosell says sometimes makes me think that he already has dementia.
Take Cossell out of it for a minute if you’d like. I agree that Zeke does indeed do everything. But I don’t know if he does it far and away better than other RBs to justify taking at 8.
Simply put, there might be one or two areas where RBs have him beat. Everything else Zeke has them beat at.
Power – a full head of steam Derrick Henry
Agility – Dixon
Zeke has room to grow, Those two guys I mentioned above seem like they already maxed out.
Well I wouldn’t take either guy ahead of Elliot, but I’m not sure if his career production would really justify the pick at 8. I really don’t think there is anything anybody can say and/or show me with Elliot that’ll wow me enough to take him earlier than the teens or later.
Lets say the following guys are gone at 8, who would you take over Elliot (cant trade down)?
Goff
Wentz
Tunsil
Bosa
Buckner
Jack
Ramsey
As long as they don’t take over rated Hargreaves over Zeke, I won’t flip out
So you are fine with Gronklin like some have us taking?
I don’t even think that’s possible that he would get any consideration for the 8th pick…. If I can’t have Zeke in that scenario, Id probably want Rankins
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Stanley is still available
Stanley. Not a doubt in my mind. I’m not 100% comfortable that Lane is a long term LT. Even if he is, we can run him into the ground on this contract, and then make Stanley the long term LT once he’s ready for his 2nd deal. I just really see Stanley as a much better pick than Elliot.
But if the rumors about Stanley not really being all about football and his focus may lie elsewhere it could be Danny Watkins all over again. If it’ s not tonsil at 8..which it definitely will not be i’do rather trade back and take conklin..who seems to be grading out similar to stanley.
I’m very down on Conklin. I’d prefer to trade down further and get Spriggs.
Spriggs is a day 2 pick…..iggles have a bleak history of reaching for players see ms2, the fireman, and jarrett…
Rather trade back and draft a guy like Treadwell who I think might turn out to be the best player in the draft when all is said and done.
I dunno about Treadwell…. I like the kid, but when you look at our stable of WRs, think it’s more important that we add some top end speed at WR instead of another Big Body WR..
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Think Laquan is a better player, but the Corey Coleman kid may be a better fit with our existing WRs..
No we need guys that can actually CATCH the football!!!!..JMatt is always going to drop passes, that was his problem in college. Ags has enough speed but again last season had a problem with drops. Treadwell catches everything which is the primary job of a WR. He’s a bona-fide red zone threat. Ask the Raiders about drafting speed guys. I want a guy with stickem for hands. I don’t think he’s top 10 talent. But I think if all.the blue chippers are gone Howie trades back with the titans we get our second round pick back and they get to draft Stanley
because the past Raiders WR have anything to do with the WR’s in this draft
Coleman will surely fit in with his stone hands and body catching.
http://i.imgur.com/17cDWNY.gif
Picks 20-50 in this draft are all basically the same in this draft- it is just fits and flavors will decide where players go. If someone wants an athletic LT prospect they take Spriggs. If they want a Road grading RT they take Decker, etc.
Getting caught up in ‘mock draft’ value in is going to get you riled up come draft time.
Springs is a day 2 pick…..iggles have a bleak history of reaching for players see ms2, the fireman, and jarrett…
Rather trade back and draft a guy like Treadwell who I think might turn out to be the best player in the draft when all is said and done.
Ok, trade down to day 2 for Spriggs then! And Treadwell would be fine by me in a trade down as well. 40 times be damned, the dude runs good routes and catches the football in tight spaces.
The media has once again done their jobs by infuriating Eagles fans. Just remember every year this happens at this point of the offseason so take the rumors and throw them out the window.
As to who I want the Eagles to draft is Tunsil, Ramsey, or Jack in that order. I would also be okay with the eagles moving up a couple spots to land one.
Given the medical difference of opinion yesterday on Jack, you might get him to drop to us at 8.
I’m new here and I just started posting recently. Just wanted to thank everyone for posting. I really enjoy the discussion most of the time, and the solid insight that true Eagles fans bring to this blog.
And even those of us that are stubborn a-holes still enjoy dialog with everybody when we’re not hulking out on certain topics. Welcome aboard.
“Are you going to stick with Kenjon Barner……….”
NO! We should not stick with Kenjon Barner!
Well! lol
We’re sticking with Kenjon Barner, and I heard Pederson wants to give him a shot at quarterback.
So even though I don’t like Elliot at 8, what would a draft with trading down for Elliot look like? I’m obviously not going to be able to trade down twice and get 2nd rounders both times. So to be more realistic we can remove Butler from this draft and imagine I didn’t take Hunter Henry or Tyler Matakevich and took Javon Hargrove at DT instead.
Round 1 Pick 13 (MIA): Ezekiel Elliott, RB, Ohio State (A+)
Round 2 Pick 9 (NYG): Vernon Butler, DT/DE, Louisiana Tech (A)
Round 2 Pick 11 (MIA): Le’Raven Clark, OT, Texas Tech (B)
Round 3 Pick 14: Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas (A+)
Round 3 Pick 16: Tyler Matakevich, ILB/OLB, Temple (B)
Round 4 Pick 2: Connor McGovern, OG, Missouri (B+)
Round 5 Pick 14: Paul McRoberts, WR, Southeast Missouri State (A+)
Round 5 Pick 25: DeAndre Houston-Carson, FS, William & Mary (B+)
Round 6 Pick 13: Tyrone Holmes, OLB, Montana (C+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Doug Middleton, FS, Appalachian State (B)
Round 7 Pick 30: Daniel Braverman, WR, Western Michigan (A+)
Or if trading down for a corner is more your speed.
Round 1 Pick 14 (OAK): Mackensie Alexander, CB, Clemson (B)
Round 2 Pick 13 (OAK): Le’Raven Clark, OT, Texas Tech (B+)
Round 3 Pick 12 (OAK): Derrick Henry, RB, Alabama (A+)
Round 3 Pick 14: Javon Hargrave, DT, South Carolina State (B+)
Round 3 Pick 16: Sterling Shepard, WR, Oklahoma (A+)
Round 4 Pick 2: Jerell Adams, TE, South Carolina (B+)
Round 5 Pick 14: Scooby Wright III, ILB, Arizona (A)
Round 5 Pick 25: Isaac Seumalo, OG, Oregon State (B+)
Round 6 Pick 13: Tyrone Holmes, OLB, Montana (C+)
Round 7 Pick 12: Rees Odhiambo, OG, Boise State (A)
Round 7 Pick 30: Nate Sudfeld, QB, Indiana (B-)
Think it will prove that 14 is way too high for Mackensie
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I hope Derreck Henry isnt even on our draft board
Noted.
Although I think corner is a position they would draft in the event of a trade down. Seems like there isn’t one worth it at 8, but a lot of them worth it in the teens and later.
I assume we will be very interested in cormers somewhere in the first 4 rounds… I just think VH, Eli, and the William Jack kid will all end up drafted before Mackensie… I can see Mack falling to the 25-35(top of round 2) range…. I got at least 3 CB drafted ahead of him, but I could easily be wrong. Just the impression I get
Curious as to what folks think on the following front.
Pick 2 is worth 2600 points. Pick 8 is worth 1400.
To get from 8 to 2 we’d need to give up 8, next year’s 1, and a 3rd this year.
What is everybody’s willingness to do that for the QB the Rams don’t take?
That is a price i would pay… if they love the QB available at 2. However i think we have a problem with the way the Rams have set the market… Browns will be looking to get comparable value to move off the pick. A 2017 1st and an extra 3 this year is not helping them rebuild their roster, or putting bums on seats this coming year.
The Titans/Rams trade was very close to the correct number of points for a 15 to 1 move. And 2 isn’t 1 in terms of choice of player.
The never more accurate models say Rams paid around 170 cents to the dollar
True, those models are never more accurate. I looked at the trade quickly and it looked like the Rams “overpaid” by one 3rd rounder in terms of points. Not bad all things considered for going to #1.
The reason why some of the other models than the old Jimmy Johnson one is that the 1st overall pick is worth much less.
Yeah, I really prefer the Johnson model. I think it has help up well over time. Especially now that top picks aren’t making what they did when salaries got out of control in the last CBA. The new CBA really tamps down the financial risk in the draft, so those top picks have regained their Johnson era value.
But the most used model I have seen uses career AV which does not care about salary. There is just too many 1st overall busts that drags it down.
Different strokes for different folks. The bust factor is why GMs get fired, so they can own the risk. I’ll stick with this one when evaluating draft trades.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/
I also think NFL teams still use it, but the one using AV give a good idea what value you can expect out of each pick.
http://www.footballperspective.com/creating-a-draft-value-chart-part-ii/
Graph 2 shows the big difference early in round 1 and I think its true that the 1st pick is not so much better than pick 2 or 3 on average as the Johnson model assumes
Thank you for the link. He is an interesting one validating that the Johnson model is still widely used however.
http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2016/4/14/11422408/2016-nfl-draft-the-demise-of-the-trade-value-chart-is-greatly-exaggerated
Personally I think wentz’s ceiling is blake bortles and goff maybe a tad below that. I’m not giving up a 1st in 2017 for bortles. Cosel has everyone drinking the cool aid with wentz is the second coming of Andrew luck nonsense. The best player in this draft is Ramsey and I would only give up a first to get the best player in this draft…………..providing he was a QB. A blue chipper will fall to us because these QBs are way overrated.
Mayocks Kool aid is even worse than Cossels
I don’t think the Browns take that trade. It would cost more than that. Cleveland is The new #1 pick and in some ways it’s more valuable than #1 now that The top QBs have been cut by 50%… I would think it costs more than that. Points be damned
And that depends on how much the Browns like the QB that’s left. And how many teams are bidding.
Then they can pound sand.
No way I do that. I call CLE’s bluff. If they want Wentz and he drops to 5/6 then I pursue a trade to jump up for him.
I agree. Bottom line, is a QB from North Dakota State worth 2 first round picks? I don’t think so.
yeah seriously people gas these qbs so much, but no oline no wrs no good scheme and a qb not worth anything.
Probably not, but I’m only looking at what is appropriate for a point value swap if we wanted to trade to 2.
8 and one of our 3rds gets us to 6.
Nice. Let’s do it now.
Depends on how highly the Eagles regard the one that’s left. If they really think he’s a franchise quarterback they should make that deal. No question.
But they can’t make that deal until draft day.
Agree you wait until the Rams turn in their card to go at Cleveland’s neck, but I’d like to be ready for all possibilities.
I’m not quite sure other 31 teams are confused. I can’t picture a gm under his desk fretting over a report about Zeke and the Eagles. Everyone says…you dont draft a rb in round one. If that’s too be true….y in the world would anybody move up to 8 to get one? …this report…like all others are pre draft gossip…If GMs are scanning tweets to get info they arent going to last long at their job….
No, they don’t scan tweets themselves but I can guarantee you they each have some lowly intern combing twitter for info and consolidating it into a daily report.
I also think, in general, every GM has a half dozen options they’ll be happy with. They might covet a player, but if another team gets him first they move on and the guy they get will likely be just as highly rated.
That’s to say, I don’t think these guys “worry” about what other teams are going to do. If anything, they’re trying to maximize their own draft boards.
Everyone always says you don’t draft a RB in round one…and someone always does. I think there was one year where no one did, is that correct?
Roseman being “happy” about this bring reported assumes that Roseman really doesn’t want Zeke which is very possible, but not something we can just assume. And it wasn’t really a report, it came from Elliot’s mouth when he was on ESPN all day yesterday
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A Zeke/mathews one two punch would be nasty, but I can also see why roseman would prefer getting something in a trade for Mathews now, instead of cutting him after the season for no compensation.
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Im pretty torn on all this RB talk with Zeke and Mathews… Whatever they decide is fine by me… If they do trade Mathews during the draft, I would think they would sign on trDe for a veteran RB. I would hate to carry Both Barner and Sproles this year. Keep sproles. Dump Barner (throw media Mike a bone)
If we did not have Sproles then having Mathews and Zeke makes sense, but all 3 RB’s are too talented to be share the RB snaps 3 ways, and get good usage of their talents. So trading an RB make sense if we draft Zeke. In fact if we do not only do i think we trade Mathews, but we will come back and draft another RB in the mid rounds, maybe someone with a more Sproles like skill set to be a long term replacement.
I disagree vehemently. For me the benefit of keeping Matthews even if we draft a RB high outweighs the potential benefit of whatever we could get for him via trade. “too talented to share the snaps 3 ways and get usage of their talents” – that’s just ridiculous. So it’s better to subtract talent? Quality depth at RB position far far outweighs the cost of not getting back whatever we could for him.
rather move sproles than mathews.
Id much rather keep Sproles over Mathews… I want to see Sproles as a Recieving threat in a west coast offense. His punt return ability hasn’t taken a step back yet either… If we trade a RB, I expect it to be Mathews, not Sproles
I’d agree; Sproles is a unique option.
Yes I agree, which is why I been talking about the possibility of trading Mathews for months.
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SPROLES is a classy team first guy and even he admitted that there would be problems if we brought all 3 RB’s back. That same problem would exist if we keep both Mathews and SPROLES while also drafting a RB in the top 100
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When it comes to Ryan, logically Roseman was going to get rid of him by next offseason anyway, and if we know a guy is only temporary, Id rather try and get a pick for him a year early, instead of cutting him for nothing a year later, Especially when talking about a plug and play position like RB. It’s not like we need mathews because a rookie RB has to be groomed on the bench for two years…
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I assume Roseman (a big Boy GM, no more of that AMATUER hour), will go into the draft having worked out a trade for Ryan Mathews, but wait to make sure we get a RB in the top 100 before pulling the trigger on the trade. Id be surprised if he made the trade official before the draft and telegraph a major need at RB when there are opponents like the Dolphins, Bears, Cowboys desperate for RB help.
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I do Have enough of a newfound respect for Ryans game to not want him traded to the Cowboys. that big explosive RB runs too damn hard, creates some Nasty collisions that are bound to get him, and opposing Linebackers hurt. Get him out of our division.. Seems like the Posterchild for Cali Boy surfer dude, so I would think that he would be happy to be traded back to Cali (Niners, raiders)
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Getting a 5th round pick for him would be great, or use him to swap a draft pick for an opponents pick one round earlier.. Like Pick 100 and Mathews for pick #77 or something like that
NASTY!!!!!!
I think Tommy more means that even if Rosenamn wants Zeke there are so many reports swirling around its pretty hard to make any strategic decisions based on what the Eagles are planning.
VHIII. 1) Good player 2) projected around our spot 3) at a position of need 4) with little media fanfare. That’s the pick.
Who really knows at this point? But if I had to put money on it I’d go with VHIII too.
How about this for a trade? This year’s first round pick for Cleveland’s first round pick next year. The Eagles basically take a pass this year and set themselves up with ammunition to get their QB next year (2 first round picks with Cleveland’s pick probably in the top 5).
I realize that on the draft value chart this would be to Cleveland’s advantage but you need to get creative if you want a top QB without tanking.
By our luck, Cleveland would somehow finish 8-8 next year before sinking back to their usual 3-wins a year status.
Jesus that’s terrible.
I’d rather give up a future 1st for a “known” quantity now than give up a current 1st for the possibility there might be someone worth taking next year. Even “sure thing” QB’s will fall over the course of a college season (remember future #1 overall draft pick Matt Barkley).
Besides, even if there’s someone amazing, you would have to hope the top teams in next year’s draft aren’t QB-needy. Remember Tampa Bay and Tennessee last year…
The QB class next year is considered better than the QB class this year. They get a shot at Deshaun Watson, and if next year rolls around and that supposed QB class dries up, chances are that the OT position is deeper than the one-deep OT class this year.
The Eagles have Bradford and Peters for at least a year. Why not use that year to increase the chances the Eagles can find equal or better replacements? Ronnie Stanley is no Jason Peters, that’s for sure.
Plus, you would have Howie making the deal so we’d probably get a bunch of mid round picks thrown in as a bonus.
Watson SUCKS relative to Goff and Wentz. He’s scrambling trash. I want no parts of his nonsense. He’s not an NFL QB.
Compared to Wentz, Watson threw for more yards, with a better completion percentage and more touchdowns, against far better competition.
And he’s three years younger. Wentz will be 24 next season and he’s still a guy that people think needs a year on the bench to develop after taking 4 years to get out of div 1-AA.
He’s a running back.
Everything I’ve read about him suggests he’s a QB who runs, not a RB who throws.
I’ve seen WAY too many rushing attempts from him. I don’t like that instinct.
It could be very dangerous in the NFL…
Very dangerous indeed. He’d be exposed to injury, never learn how to make progression reads, and endanger my enjoyment of watching the game played properly from the QB position.
To be fair, most of the QB’s in the league play the game “properly,” but I’d hardly say they’re a joy to watch…
That is true, but I’d rather a classic drop back passing back and forth game than the disorganized garbage of QBs running all over the place.
It’s very funny to me that you’re so dead set against running quarterbacks, almost to a pathological degree, but you’re also an Eagles fan. I don’t think any team in NFL history has had the number of high profile, successful “running” quarterbacks that we’ve had.
Cunningham, McNabb, Vick, hell, even Garcia. And the reason they never won the Super Bowl had nothing to do with their “running”.
Not to mention that this time last there was certainly no shortage of people willing to give anything for Mariota.
Guy for guy.
Cunningham didn’t truly become great until he stopped running and let his passing talent work to his advantage in Minnesota. Loved him to death, but I wish he would have been coached better here. All of that “Ultimate Weapon” nonsense destroyed Cunningham’s development as a passer.
McNabb is one of my all time favorite Eagles. He was intelligent to a fault with not turning the ball over and developed into a guy I loved because he learned to really compartmentalize his running.
Vick – not a fan. 2010 was a revelation, but a true flash in the pan type year.
Garcia – in his “year” as an Eagle QB – 188 passes, 25 runs; hardly a running QB.
Career almost 3800 passing attempts with 468 rushing attempts; that really isn’t the frequency of rushing by a QB that I find so detrimental to playing the game the right way.
All in all, I don’t mind a guy who can use his wheels upon occasion to take off and run as a last resort. When I see a guy whose first instinct is to drop his eyes and look to run when he’s facing any pressure; I find it to be disorganized garbage football.
Kenjon Barner as our starting RB VS run first qb as our starter? Which is worse?
not being dead
Yes it is McNabb didn’t run a little and we lost. I kept thinking just run this one game.
It’s definitely an innovative idea, but I think giving up a chance on a current prospect would only make sense if 1) there’s absolutely no one on the board you want (and no one you feel is even close), and 2) no team wants to give you good value in the current draft to trade into that spot.
That is a somewhat creative way to look at things, but you’re supposed to count next year’s one as appx the 16.5th pick in that round. So I’d want the point difference between 8 and 16.5 as well; 425 points. That would be a 2nd rounder. You could then use that 2 and one of our 3s to jump into the back end of the first round if you had a player you liked then as opposed to 8 and don’t feel the need to get two guys in the 3rd.
Generally I like thinking around how to get some better assets, but QB in next year’s draft isn’t where I want to be looking unless somebody emerges to be better than their current projection and isn’t Watson.
And FYI on next year’s QBs
http://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php
This time last year Wentz probably wasn’t even on that list.
Quite true, or at least not anywhere as high. I’m not totally opposed to seeing if we can snag a QB next year, so this is the general list of names. I’m just DEAD set against getting a running QB; I want a guy who plays the game the right way.
Then don’t get stuck on the names. This is a weak QB class and at least one guy is already gone. Could the QB class be just as weak next year? It’s possible, but not probable.
The three top guys this year are a div 1-AA player, a stick figure with historically small hands, and Paxton Lynch, a guy who kinda sucks at QB but has great size.
Yeah, the general concept it interesting. I like Goff a lot more than you do I think. I think the hand size thing can be avoided if the QB keeps some awareness of where the rushers are relative to when he’s transferring the football.
But I have a feeling the Rams aren’t going to me discuss getting Goff at 2 with Cleveland’s pick.
I would worry less about his hand size and more about the fact that he looks like he weighs around 165 pounds. His waist looks almost as small as one of Kiko Alonzo’s biceps.
Slight build can be a concern if the guys leaves himself open to taking hits.
Why would Cleveland do that, if they have gotten their QB? Is there another player in the draft they would want *that* much?
Fair question, but the answer is that “They’re the Browns.”
… with a new front office, including one (DePodesta) who is probably very much focused on value.
Not a new owner however.
They’ve got a new front office and a new coach. Regardless of whether or not they take a QB, they have a ton of holes to fill. They’ve had 5 coaches in the last seven or so years so it’s not like you go into the Cleveland job thinking you’ve got a lot of time to turn it around.
I haven’t noticed this article posted. Goff had great workout in rain for Rams
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000653513/article/rams-topsecret-qb-tour-bred-blockbuster-trade-for-no-1-pick
Also, fwiw
Rand Getlin ✔ @Rand_Getlin
Been told multiple times that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff graded out higher for a number of teams than Mariota and Winston did last year.
“But the Rams had an important chip: an extra second-round pick in 2016, obtained in last year’s trade with the Eagles that sent oft-injured incumbent quarterback Sam Bradford to Philly”
It will forever irk me that the original report of us gaining picks was false.
that was a crazy freaking day.
A day that will live in infamy
they can talk up that shit all they want, but there isn’t convincing evidence they’re better QBs than the top two in 2013. I mean, if we’re all taking the white Jason Campbell with the number one pick, well…
First it was Goff and Wentz are as good as Jameis and Mariota.
Then it became, Mayock claiming that Wentz can be a Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady which almost made me choke on my food.
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The Latest, was Merrill Hodge and JAWS this morning, showing why Wentz is an ever better prospects than Cam Newton was..
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Hopefully San Fran trades up to #2 tomorrow and puts an end to this crap
Check out Kalan Reed mid round CB especially if you’re a Vernon Hargreaves fan. Similar physical profile, not quite as thick as VH3.
Similar size at 5-11, 199 , similar VL, ran 4.38 40 at Pro Day which compares.
4 ints, 14 PBUs, 2 forced fumbles, better in run support (this year anyway) than VH3.
Had third-highest coverage grade in the class, notched 18 combined interceptions and passes defensed from only 89 targets. Despite the excellent play still allowed three touchdowns this season, one of which was admittedly a lucky bounce on a pass he contested at the catch point.
Had a solid game vs. Amari Cooper. I heard Cooper had good numbers but a lot came vs. other CBs.
They put de in filename but he’s CB
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/03/31/draft-pff-scouting-report-kalan-reed-de-southern-miss/
5TH ranked sleeper by PFF
5. Kalan Reed, CB, Southern Miss
Few analysts are discussing Reed, but we like him a lot as a prospect who brings athleticism and scheme-diversity to the secondary. His +13.7 coverage grade ranked third among the cornerbacks in the class, as did his 14 passes defensed. He intercepted or defended over 20 percent of his targets on the year, and those ball skills put him in the second-round range on the latest PFF Draft Board. NFL teams may overlooked Reed since he’s “only” 5-foot-11, but he’s proficient in man or zone coverage and may end up as one of the steals of the draft.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/15/draft-10-deep-sleeper-prospects-for-the-2016-nfl-draft/
Best that’s out there, you can’t judge CB by just highlights obviously but PFF grades him so there’s that.
https://youtu.be/n7evVI92QjQ
http://footballdialogue.net/posts/12273674/nfl-draft-prospect-interview—-southern-mississippi-cb-kalan-reed.html
This could be good or bad:
FD: Once your football career is over where do you see yourself? I saw your major is sports management. Could we have a future sports agent or GM on our hands?
KR: I would like to go to law school and possibly become a sports attorney.
For me CB is one of the hardest positions to project besides QB. it’s one of the positions I prefer addressing after round 1. Joe Haden, Patrik Peterson and Stephan Gilmore are the only CB’s this decade worthy of their top 10 pick, Yet 2009 was the last time we didn’t see a CB drafted in the top 11. I don’t know the CB position round 1 bust percentages compare to the other positions, but at least for me, it’s been one of the tougher to project, so I try to be extremely picky when it comes to round 1 corners… unfortunately, it also seems like CB and Safety are positions Roseman and his staff have struggled to evaluate. It’s bad enough when we struggle to project CB Prospects, but Roseman has also struggled to project free agent CB’s properly.. There is a lot that Roseman does well, but I don’t think Anyone would list CB evaluatipns as one of his strengths. Which is why I’m so THANKFUL that the ONLY CBs Roseman went out and got, where corners our Defensive Coordinator has coached and had success with. Eliminating Rosemans evaluation from equation….
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I don’t really expect VH3 to be the pick, but if Vernon Hargreaves becomes an Eagle, it BETTER mean that he was the defensive player that Jim Schwartz had #1 on his list out of all the defenders left on the board.
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CB is a crucial position, but one I typically rather wait TIL after round 1 to Address. Like Offensive Line, Id like to take a mid round flier on a CB almost every year, at least every other yeàr, understanding that not all of them are going to hit.
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So I def want to check this kid out, appreciate any other corners outside the top 50 worth looking at..
I’ve been seriously annoyed at rumors of Eagles trading up to two for a QB. If that happens, it’s same shit, different coach, and I’ll prioritize on the Vikings, who seem to be run right for once…
I really miss Big Red. He has his issues, but he was always more serious about the trying to win bit than the likes of Fisher, who’s mostly about his network…
Fisher played the role of Gadot waiting for Sam Bradford to molt.
Never happened. So the Rams cut bait with Bradford.
(many mixed metaphors there)
I don’t understand some of the comments attacking Fisher when the guy spent 4 seasons waiting for the very QB whom — at least for one (prolifically redundant) commenter — is the excuse for why the Eagles should not trade up for a young QB.
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Is the response that Bradford’s performance with Rams is Fisher’s fault?
Different OCs. Different WRs. Different schemes. Different OLs.
And all bad. So Bradford lands in Philadelphia and — boom — the Eagles, 10-6 back to back, become 7-9 . . . .
But not Bradford’s fault. Kelly was a fraud. Etc. Etc.
Seems Teflon Sam is kinda like Teflon Jeff.
This isn’t meant in defense of Bradford’s talents in general, but compared to the QB performance level the Eagles got in 2014 the Eagles were better at the position in 2015. The fall to 7-9 can’t be pegged on him.
Upvote for the most mixed metaphors in the first two sentences of any post.
I’m not sure what Gal Gadot movie you’re talking about, but any metaphor with her is a good metaphor.
No need to trade up in this year’s draft when you will have a top 7 pick next year. If you believe those ESPN ‘experts’ who believe Eagles won’t win more than 5 games this season…
Traditionally, when it comes to this time of year im extremely hard on CB prospects. It’s a position I really don’t like spending top 15 picks on because after QB, I think college corners are one of the hardest positions to project to the NFL. It’s not too often that I see a draft class with a top CB prospect that I love. If we are going to take a CB with the #8th pick he better “Check all the Boxes”.. He better be special in all areas, maybe Good in an area or two. When it comes to Hargreaves, there are just so many areas where you would like more out of from a CB drafted in the top 10.. When I look at the #1 prospect at a certain position, I like to think of how I would view the kid if there were two Elite once a decade prospects ahead of him at his position. so if Deon Sanders and Charles Woodson were in this draft class pushing VH3 to #3 CB in this class, would he still be viewed as so special Of a prospect that a team would take him in the top 10 even tho two CBs were already drafted in the top 5? i would say absolutely not. Yet if Tyrone Smith and Trent Williams (two LT) end up getting drafted in the top 5 of this class, Tunsil is special enough that he would likely to still be drafted in the top 10… Vernon Hargreaves deserves to be the first CB drafted this year, but that shouldn’t automatically make him a top 10 pick, so I’d rather let the Bucs or the Giants make that mistake. Actually he could be a decent pick for the Giants since they have DRC and Janoris Jenkins, so hargreaves could start his career on the bench, and when the Giants cut DRC after the season, they still have Janoris to match up with #1s, so VH2 would be much easier for me to bet on as a #2 CB…. We HOPE Eric ROWE will be our #1 CB of the future, but we don’t know that yet,. CB are one of those positions I would try to avoid in round 1. only take a CB if we are absolutely in love with one because he is everything we could want in a corner, elite in every aspect, and even VH biggest fans can’t say that about him.. We need to make this pick count.
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Recent RD 1 Cornerback history
2015
#11 Trae Waynes
#16 Kevin Johnson
#18 Marcus Peters
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2014
#8 Gilbert
#14 Kyle Fuller
#24 Darquez Dennard
#25 Jason Verrett
#31 Bradley Roby
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2013
#9 Dee Milner
#12 DJ Hayden
#22 Desmond Trufant
#25 Xavier Rhodes
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2012
#6 Morris Claiborne
#10 Stephan Gilmore
#17 Dre Kirkpatrik
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2011
#5 Patrik Patterson
#27 Jimmy Smith
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2010
#7 Joe Haden
#20 Kareem Jackson
#29 Kyle Wilson
#32 Patrik Robinson
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So in recent draft history, the #1 CB drafted have been:
1) Trae Waynes
2) Justin Gilbert
3) Dee Milner
4) Morris Claiborne
5) Patrik Peterson
6) Joe Haden
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Out of those 6 CB, only two, Haden and Peterson seem worthy of their high draft status. In fairness to Milner, Gilbert, and Trae they are still developing young players, but it’s do or die yeàr for at least Dee Milner.
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I counted 21 first round corners. I have left guys like Devin McCourty and Byron Jones who transitioned to safety off the list. Out of those 21 Corners the ones I feel like I would be happy today if the Eagles spent a first round pick on are:
1) Kevin Johnson (#16)
2) Marcus Peters (#18)
3) Bradley Roby (#31)
4) Desmond Trufant (#22)
5) Stephan Gilmore #10)
6) Patrik Peterson (#5)
7) Joe Haden (#7)
8) Kareem Jackson (#20)
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So that’s 8 out of 21 first round CB’s I would consider good picks if they were on the Eagles today. Out of those 8 Corners, only 3 were drafted in the top 10.. this also shows that every year at least one CB gets pushed into the top 10, last year was the exception but Waynes went #11. I don’t view Jaylen Ramsey as a CB, I think it’s a travesty to waste his special Safety ability at CB, so even if we are lucky to see him fall to us, he would get moved to safety in 2-3 years when Jenkins moves on. This Leaves Vernon Hargreaves as the lucky recipient of a weak crop of 1st round corners, that will get himself overdrafted because not since 2009 have we seen a CB not get pushed into the top 11 range. The first CB drafted that year was our beloved safety Malcolm Jenkins at #14
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Is Vernon Hargreaves going to be the first top 10 CB to be worthy of such a high pick since Haden and Peterson? Maybe, but im not comfortable betting on that to be the case. I see a solid CB prospect who doesn’t have to be a bust, but I don’t see what makes him this special rare top 10 CB. Lacks top end speed and vertical leap of a Ronald Darby who looks like a quality corner short of 6ft.. hargreaves doesn’t have special height, he will be giving up 4-6inches to outside WRs most weeks. He doesn’t have freakish arm length like Walter Thurmond to make up for the height disadvantage. He is going to have to be perfect in his technique to be able to hang with some of the insane Catch Radius of TODAYS Wrs… Lacks elite closing speed to cover for mistakes. gave up more big plays than you would like to see. Failed to step up in some of his biggest games..
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I don’t want to make it sound like this kid has no business being taken in round 1 or that he is destined to be a Bust because I don’t think that’s the case either. but we should be very picky and demanding when it comes to considering a CB with such a high draft pick and there are just too many apects that I would like to see more of when selecting a CB this high. IMO I don’t think VH belongs in that top tier of 8 or 9 prospects. I think it’s more appropriate to put him towards the top of the second tier of prospects which still means that he is a very good prospect, but because we will see a top tier prospect or two still available when we pick, I would hate to see the Eagles to spend the 8th pick on VH… I viewed VH as someone we should strongly consider when we had the #13th pick, so why would I want him now that we moved to #8 and have access to a higher tier of prospects? Thinking the kid is better suited at 13 then 8 ISNT exactly an insult. I just think there will be a few other players that I am more comfortable betting on them to grow into elite players at their positions, than I am comfortable betting that VH is going to be Joe Haden.
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Nice blog entry !
GREAT post…nice research
I definitely agree, I like Hargraeves but not so much at # 8. I would rather him in a trade back scenario…and even then, I think I would prefer Mackensie Alexander in that case. I know they’re both the same size, and similar ability, and Hargraeves created more plays— but Mackensie has more speed and just seems more like a lockdown corner to me.
My ideal scenario would be to grab the BPA at 8 (Jack attack, Tunsil) and a DB like Sean Davis, Keivare russell, or Jalen Mills, in the mid rounds
If Howie really has only had final say since 2012 then he has never drafted a small school kid before which makes me question the eagles interest in Wentz. Would he prefer a Goff who went to a major program?