In-Depth: Wendell Smallwood
Posted: May 5th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 271 Comments »The draft may be over, but I’ll be writing a lot about it for the next couple of months. I’ve got a lot of thoughts on the picks the Eagles made, both in terms of the players themselves and also how the moves make sense (or don’t) from the team’s perspective.
I haven’t said a lot about Carson Wentz in the past few days. He got a ton of coverage from the major media so I focused elsewhere. I’ll have plenty to say about Wentz, but let’s go elsewhere for now.
From my perspective, the two most interesting picks were RB Wendell Smallwood and DB Blake Countess. Smallwood is the more noteworthy player for now so we’ll start with him.
First, I liked Smallwood quite a bit. He came to my attention at the Scouting Combine and grew on me from there.
During the college season, I tend to focus on Seniors and elite Juniors. Smallwood, unlike Ezekiel Elliott and Derrick Henry, was not on my radar. I watched a bit of West Virginia, but simply wasn’t aware of him. I start checking out Juniors at the Combine.
I remember seeing RB22 going through the drills on the field and wondering who that was. The player was fluid and moved very naturally. He really impressed me. I figured out that was some guy named Wendell Smallwood. It didn’t take long before I found out he led the Big 12 in rushing in 2015 and suddenly I had to take him seriously as a prospect. Here’s the quick snippet I wrote on him back then.
RB Wendell Smallwood – Good showing. 5-10, 208. Ran 4.47 and posted great 3-cone time of 6.83. Only jumped 33.5 inches. I was impressed by him in the drills. Also looked good catching the ball.
Just for fun, here is LeSean McCoy’s Pro Day.
5-10, 204
4.50
VJ – 29
3C – 6.82
That’s pretty interesting, huh? No one is saying Smallwood will be Shady, Pt. 2. McCoy was a great college player and went in the 2nd round. Smallwood was a good college player and went in the 5th round. While similar in size and athleticism, they are different guys.
One thing they do have in common is the ability to make plays. Shady did a great job of that at the NFL level. For now, Smallwood has only done it in college. But he did lead the NCAA in runs of 10 or more yards in 2015. Smallwood averaged 6.4 yards per carry. He isn’t just going to move the chains. Smallwood can help you get chunk plays, something the Eagles offense lacked in 2015.
Let’s watch a bit of Smallwood in action. I think this game shows his overall skill set.
The first thing I look for in a RB is vision. The runner has to see where the holes are. He has to be able to read the defense so he knows where to go. The next thing for me is footwork. The greatest vision in the world is wasted if the runner can’t get where he needs to be. Might as well have Stevie Wonder out there at that point.
Smallwood shows both good vision and good feet in the video. He’s able to make quick cuts and change directions when he needs to. You see him break plays to the outside and maneuver well in traffic. You can’t do those things without footwork and vision.
One of the things that stood out is that in the 4th quarter, his team had the lead and Smallwood played accordingly. He ran inside. He focused on moving the chains and wasn’t trying to hit home runs. Smart football. Understand the situation and do what is needed at that moment. There was a late 3rd down when he finally did bounce the run outside and moved the chains. He needed 7 yards for the 1st down so cutting outside at that point was a smart bet. You aren’t going up the middle for 7 yards very often when the other team is focused on stuffing the box.
There were some moments when defenders were free and right at the LOS. Smallwood showed the discipline to settle for nothing. Some runners get in the habit of trying to create something out of nothing. Is there anything more frustrating than watching a RB loop backward to avoid defenders. That works occasionally, but more often that not doesn’t help at all. Better to get nothing or lose a yard than to run circles behind the line and lose 10 yards. That is a drive-killer.
I loved the fact that Smallwood is such a North-South runner. He gets upfield as quickly as possible. Some runners force things to the outside. Some look for clean holes. Smallwood just needed enough room to get going. He was able to get through traffic if he saw daylight behind it. That’s where a lot of those 10-yard runs came from. He also has the burst to make teams pay. If you give him some room, Smallwood will accelerate through the hole and get to daylight in a hurry.
Smallwood is hard to rate in terms of the passing game. He caught 68 passes in college, but I haven’t seen enough of those to label him a good receiver. I thought he caught the ball well at the Combine so that gives me hope that he does have good hands. Smallwood was a willing blocker when it came to pass protection. Like all college backs, he will need a lot of work in that area. Tony Hunt was a great college pass blocker. I remember his first preseason game. A LB blitzed and Hunt went to hit him. The LB used a spin move, got right by Hunt with ease and just crushed the Eagles QB. That’s life in the NFL.
One of the concerns I had with Smallwood is whether he could be a starting RB in the NFL or whether he was a role player. He’s talented either way, but there is a difference. One thing that makes me believe he could be a starter is that Smallwood will run up the middle. He is willing to “trust the play” as Bill Parcells used to say. This ties in to the point above about not just running around wildly. Blockers think a runner is going to a specific hole. They block accordingly. You want the runner to hit that hole. If not, the blockers are wasted. The RB is behind them so they can’t see where he’s going. That’s why they need him to trust the play and run to the assigned hole or area.
The biggest issue I have with Smallwood is physicality. He doesn’t lack toughness, but I’m curious to see how he will do when it comes to taking on NFL tacklers. In college, he was able to fall forward most of the time. Smallwood wasn’t huge, but broke some tackles and ran hard. Doing that vs Texas Tech is one thing. Doing it vs NFL size and strength is another. This will be another factor in determining if Smallwood is a starter or role player. He doesn’t need to be Earl Campbell, but Smallwood has to show that he can break tackles and knock defenders back with some sort of consistency. Guys who go down on first contact don’t last long.
There were some people comparing Smallwood to Darren Sproles. I don’t like that at all. Sproles is a great RS and undersized RB who is the very definition of a role player. He’s great in that role, but isn’t someone you are just going to feed the ball to as a runner. Smallwood has potential to be a productive RB in a conventional way.
There were some character questions with Smallwood. The police were involved with one issue, but that was cleared up. West Virginia, the NFL and the Eagles all looked into the matter and came away thinking Smallwood did nothing wrong. As to his Twitter account, there is no denying that is wrong. Smallwood wrote things in the past that were pretty deplorable, but he was a teenager at that point. You want to be careful about defining a person by what he said on social media as a kid. I got into some trouble for things that were written on a chalkboard. Thankfully I didn’t have social media to worry about or I’d have had to answer questions more than a few times about my juvenile sense of humor.
I don’t want to paint Smallwood as some angel, but the Eagles spent a 5th round pick on him. That shows real interest and real expectations. If they feel that way about him, they must be comfortable with his character.
I read this and found it to be interesting.
As important as that versatility, West Virginia coach Dana Holgorsen noted Smallwood’s attention to pre-snap details and insistence on playing fact-checker in the huddle.
“Our quarterbacks don’t have any problem communicating. They do a great job with signals, never miss a call, and Wendell says, ‘That’s because I keep correcting them.’ He’s a smart, smart, smart kid,” Holgorsen said.
“All the guys in the huddle are looking at Skyler (Howard) except Wendell, and he’s looking at me. So I asked him what’s he doing. And he said ‘I’m watching your signals to make sure we get the call right.’”
Coaches can make or break some prospects with what they say to NFL scouts and teams. There were reports that Clemson coaches were less than flattering about Mackensie Alexander and that’s part of the reason he slid to the mid-2nd round.
I had Smallwood rated as a 5th round prospect so I thought he went right where he should have. If the West Virginia coaches. said good things about Smallwood privately, that may have helped teams get comfortable with him and eased any concerns that the young man was potential trouble.
One of the reasons I found Smallwood to be such an interesting pick is that I did not have a good feel for what the Eagles would do at RB. They showed serious interest in Ezekiel Elliott, but that changed after they traded up to the second pick. The Eagles worked out some RBs, but never went crazy with visits and workouts. It feels like they were picky and Smallwood was someone they had targeted.
I’m excited to see if Smallwood is going to be a good number two running back or if he can actually develop into a starter down the road.
If you just want to enjoy some highlights, here you go.
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Ok then i like the pick also. tanks again for keeping me level T law. Hope Mom Law is well & has a good Moms Day
If the game you included is representative, I hope WV didn’t break him. There were too many plays where he trusted a blocker and almost got killed for it.
Repost, from the tail end of the last thread:
There seems to be a lot to be excited about with some of our long shots.
(The last one is our guy.)
https://twitter.com/andrewgreif/status/708083000550948864
https://twitter.com/russelljclay/status/623928104743006208
https://twitter.com/benfennell_nfl/status/699301283686150145
Little Howie’s draft track record gives me cause to pause.
I’m hopeful, but nowhere near “a lot excited” about these selections after Carson Wentz.
Will Howie ever be a football guy, top notch talent evaluator?
Or just a numbers cruncher.. stay tuned
If you include the UDFA Rutgers linebacker Howie signed, you can say:
“…gives me cause to pause about Gause.”
[…] Tommy Lawlor The draft may be over, but I’ll be writing a lot about it for the next couple of months. […]
Tape is hard to watch b/c of that Qb he’s awful
Worst QB play i’ve ever seen. I didn’t realize it was possible for college QBs to miss wide open guys by that much. Not to mention he appeared to have zero rushing skill either.
I was going to say similar. . Dam glad we didn’t draft any QB or WRs from this team
QB was a JUCO RB the year before.
Why does a big 12 program has to settle for someone like that as a starter? I’d get transferinng him and redshirting him, but his play really sucked in that clip above.
3000 yard passing, 500 yards rushing. 26-14 TD/INT. 54% completion rating. He’s not great but as far as college QBs even power 5 confrence QBs that’s not awful.
He’ll lose the job this year once Will Grier is eligible. All the other scholarship QBs last year were freshmen.
It happens alot in college football. If the previous QB is an upperclassmen when he wins the job, most of the underclassmen QBs transfer out rather than waiting. With large lead times in recruiting, it can take a while to replenish the QB room with guys who are ready.
Howard gave them a guy who was dynamic enough in the run game to help open things up. He wasn’t great but the Tech games was also one of his worst of the year.
Nearly spit out my food
That was the first thing I thought. He’s terrible.
Thanks Tommy. To each their own. I still don’t see it at all with WS. You say he “gets downhill quick” but i see a guy who pulls a Willie Parker by running into the line as fast as possible showing zero patience or vision. He doesn’t appear to let blocks set up at all. He doesn’t appear to have the Westbrook trait of consistently getting more than is blocked either. Throw that on top of almost always going down on first contact and i see a guy who’s ceiling appears to be Charles Sims. Guess we’ll see
Theres a fine line between being too patient and watching the alley close or just charging where it should be. He may be closer to the latter but overall I thought he trusted his line and hit the hole hard.
JAG.
He does have some highlight runs of 4 yards, but they ended in TDs. Better than the other guy who had 4 yard runs in the middle of the field end up on his highlight reel!
i see the same. maybe not waiting for blockers was a system thing, coached to hit the hole as fast as possible instead of waiting for a later hole to develop as planned. I’ve read that he does not have a second gear, but that could be more that he does not use his first gear much, but could with coaching. he gets to full speed very quickly.
He gives the impression of more of a fast guy you find off the street and give him the ball and tell him to run as fast as he can in a specific direction. Polk also looked like an athletic guy from a bar more than a running back. But Polk ran like he was in a bar brawl while Smallwood appears to go down fast on any contact, any touch. I see zero running over people, zero beast in him.
Smallwood when he cuts seems like the cartoon character that waves one arm in a circle as they turn while running. He does a stutter step and puts the opposite arm from his cut out and waves it. Nothing like a running back type of cut.
But i certainly know nothing about running backs compared to Duce and if Duce likes him i look forward to seeing what he can do.
He is a leaf on the wind.
Thing you never know on tape is how he was being coached or asked to play. He was very effective in college in a traditionally pass first offence so if the coaches were telling him to do a specific thing or to run hard along the lines of the play then i suspect that is what he would do.
Focus on traits of things he can do and have question marks over the things he has not been able to show yet. Think there is a big transition to the NFL level but he is a productive back with physical tools to be good – will probably need a quality OL and scheme to thrive but i think he could be an interesting back if things click.
Offtopic but:
http://www.csnphilly.com/ncaa/insurer-child-told-former-penn-state-head-football-coach-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-molestation-1976
Presented without further comment.
Yeah i’m not a penn state fan/alumn but it’s better Paterno isn’t around to deal with this and just as people were rehabbing his image.
Yeah, it would be a shame if Paterno had to answer questions about why he allowed a child molester to walk free for decades. His family does have his image to think of after all.
Sorry, my post was sarcastic not sympathetic.
Unfortunately, Disqus only let’s you have one upvote.
This had better be cleaned up quickly if President Trump is going to reinstate Paterno.
Ha!
He’s got some wiggle. Shady isn’t a comparison I would make looking at the tape. Maybe @cutonasilverdollar
Is it just me or is 16 UDFA higher than normal?
2015: 16
2014: 15
2013: 9
2012: 12
2011: 9
2010: 13
Thank you, CT. Take away last year and the answer is yes. It’s because the Eagles had fewer picks in the draft and they need to nail 2-3 UDFA’s.
We had 8 picks this year, 1 more than if you havnt traded a single one
OK, I should have nuanced my comment. They had fewer picks at the top level. They needed to find some diamonds in the rough. Will that do it for ya?
No because it makes no sense.
We missed 1 single 2nd round pick in the top 3 rounds.
The real answer lies more in that the bottom of the Eagles roster fitted a 3-4 defense more, so we had sacked a few of them for more 4-3 fit guys.
That too. The answer doesn’t have to be one or the other. Yes, they switched out 3-4 to 4-3 fits, but they also had other needs that they couldn’t address in the draft, because they had so few picks in the top rounds. So, again, looking for diamonds in the rough. Both of us are right.
Yep, just me
I have an idea for a good meme. The base is Sad Keanu, except you put Sam’s face on him. Sitting on the bench next to him is a bulging bag of gold. Swooping down on him is swooping Dawk (from the Giants playoff game where he’s attacking Tiki). Optionally, and especially if the hoped-for Sam vs TO feud escalates, TOs head may replace Dawk’s helmet.
Anyone else think Kenjon Barner could be productive this year? I heard he really bulked up this offseason. Let’s assume for a moment that he fixes any fumbling issues.
depends on the oline
I think Barner stays another year. Smallwood will probably be on the practice squad.
if anything i think it’d be the other way around unless barner has a lights out TC/preseason.
You’re absolutely correct.
RB’s are about as plug n play as it gets….. I don’t expect a 5th round RB to spend a year on the practice squad because of Kenjon Barner, but I guess it’s possible
I agree. That doesn’t make much sense to me. Also, is Barner even eligible for the PS (too lazy to research).
Yeah probably not, but im just as lazy lol
No. He’s limited athletically, has poor ball security, and is clearly less talented than Mathews, Sproles, and Smallwood.
He’s not worth a roster spot. Especially because many of our draft picks this year have special teams potential as well.
Depends on whether you’re asking Media Mike or not.
Indeed!
Spadaro won’t shut up about Barner…lm pretty indifferent to him
Hard to make a definitive opinion about Smalldick. Hopefully he works out as an NFL RB. Hard position to project, clearly.
Justin Forsett 2.0. Absolutely no power or moves, but great vision and burst. Not the sexiest pick but could be good for a 5th rounder.
Seems like a good depth draft pick. I’ll look forward to this guy being RB3 on the roster.
Tommy, I hate to say it but I have to say it. It’s hard to criticize Smallwood for his tweets when the same shit goes on here, unmoderated, from one giant human turd. If what Smallwood tweeted was really that bad in your eyes, then it’s a shame to see worse here when it could be solved very easily with a bare modicum of moderation. I know you have your reasons for leaving discussion open, but many and various lines have been crossed recently by someone whose mom seriously needs to turn on parental controls. It’s happening to the shame of many longtime members and supporters of your site and hard work.
I do agree.
Very well stated, laeagle. Agree completelly. In fact, that his posts don’t get vetted only emboldens him. It also is a huge distraction from reasonable arguments. Yours is the site I go to for relief from the vitriol.
The problem is just as much people who responds. If nobody responds a guy like him will disappear because you aint giving him what he wants.
Yes I know this self-resolving dynamics on some forums like you suggested. However in his case I think everybody would be happy with a straight ban, as simple as that.
yea 100%, but it rarely happens here and everybody here should be smart enough not to reply
Not me buotch
Amazing that people can’t grasp such a simple concept… Even crazier that people read a post from a known lame, and feel compelled to reply. No idea why they even read it to begin with
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I don’t get it… The same people who bitch at Tom for not moderating, are typically the ones that instigate the trolls to post more…
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Looks pretty weak to see people łet a troll pull their strings like a puppet master. But whatever…
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Tom hooks us up with a ton of the best eagle content for free, and people bitch that he doesn’t have time to moderate a site? Moderation is BS anyway, he can get around it, the best communities are the ones that police themselves, instead the same people every day bitch to Tommy, and then they instigate the troll, feeding him exactky what he wants and giving him amo to post more.
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Stop crying to Tom, hit a fucking minimize button next to his post, and get on with your day instead of helping the troll continue his lame boring ways
Boooo.
Wrong. He responds and posts no matter what. I’m all for not feeding the troll but he’s gone too far, and mostly without being fed.
The burden to constantly click on the minimize button should not be on the majority of readers. We’re spending entirely too much time doing that on your incoherent ramblings as is. This is a situation that needs fixing and that has an easy fix.
10,000 upvotes. If we keep responding he’d just come up with a new handle and come back. It’s up to us to police ourselves.
It shouldn’t and never will be the fault of everyone else, that’s stupidity. Besides, evidence clearly shows that everyone ignoring him isn’t feasible, it’s a pipe dream, so it’s time that something was done to remove him.
Not to mention that it’s not even the easiest option, that would be making someone a mod, there’s no lack of reasonable people fit for that duty here. Ban him, if he comes back you ban him again.
It’s not like he’s even just trolling any more, it’s devolved into homophobia and that should not be allowed, it makes the site experience worse for old visitors as well as new ones, it would be in Tommy’s best interest to deal with the problem.
I pay him money. Do you??? . Next payment i am asking for God abilities
Good post. It would be great if everyone ignored him, but that’s hard to do and new people likely float in and out. It seems far easier to ban the IP address, there are quite a few reasonable people here that could do the work for Tommy, and those of us that want that done don’t deserve to be flamed (e.g., well you are crying to Tom, don’t be weak). I’ve actually never seen a post from Tommy as to whether he routinely reads the comments, sees this happening, and has a view on why it’s tolerable. I don’t think it’s such a slippery slope where the moderators will be threatening folks all the time and IB will be down to 5 people.
Yes, it’s just a matter of troll discipline. Start a conversation on racism or something if you’re bored enough to interact with a troll.
You ever send him money faggot?
I love fags!!
https://youtu.be/kS8H4NAa3RQ
Have you ever er donated to Tommy you faggit? Well I have sent him money. You know why. . Because I. Am rich. . So he agreed to never ban me unless someone gave him more money than I. Did. . So until you put your money where your mouth is, shut up, faggit
Tommy
I almost stopped reading when you mentioned Tony Hunt. Thanks for the memories..NOT!
You know who Wendell Smallwood reminds me of of,
Guys?! Brian Westbrook. Yeah that’s right! And their last names even rhyme…
I was just about to say that. Vision, footwork, smarts and “undersized”
Thank you sir. Really surprised that this comparison hasn’t been brought up yet!
Is 5’10 and 205lb really undersized as a RB these days? Think people are trying to type cast Wendell into being a small shifty back but i think he has enough size to be able to be more than that.
I think Wendell has pretty good RB measurables and traits and a lot of college production the big question is he going to be able to read and react to the NFL game… and i have no idea – he has shown little at the college level to suggest he can… but then players with great college vision bust and cannot translate it to the NFL. RB busts higher than almost any position except QB at the NFL level at almost every round level – think Wendell has a chance to be a very good back or nothing much at all and only time will tell.
That’s why I put undersized in quotes. I think he’s got a pretty good build for RB. And you can just look at him to see that he has a more than adequate RB body.
The one thing I liked from these videos, that reminds me of Westbrook, is how he moves in small spaces to set up the defenders to be blocked by his lineman. He makes the linemen’s life much easier.
His north south running style reminds me of a mini ryan Mathews… But smallwood is Probably more suited for the passing portion of the west coast offense..
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My dream is a 2017 tandem of Smallwood and Chubb..
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Lol I just realized Chubb fits perfectly with, Cox, Johnson, smallwood and all the perverted last names we giggle over like a bunch of 12yr old school girls
And for those that don’t know The back story, the “Chubb family” is a famous american family like the hatfields/McCoys… “Chubbtown” is one of the very first thriving all black communities in American history, the Chubb family created a little town and they were able to thrive as a community at a time when America was still very much anti Black… They did such a good job running their community, that the Racist southern army would even leave them alone… This kid comes from a very hard working, proud, lineage… Do not bet against that young man..
last names need to be part of the scouting profile.
“the search for a RB in round 2 ends up giving the Eagles a Chubb”
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Want to see what local media comes up with the best perverted headline for the Eagles drafting Nick Chubb
Too upright, lacks dynamic ability to cut at speed.
https://igglesnest.wordpress.com/2016/05/04/wendell-smallwood/
Good stuff. I also rebelled at the Shady comparisons for the dead cuts, the upright style, but some of those slip and falls are Sanchez-esque.
Not just the slip and falls but the not turning a 8 yard run into a 20 yard run by going out of bounds. Those were aggravating. None of them were short clock situations either.
Yeah, I don’t get that. He had the vision to pick out holes in the slop, but once he was in the open just didn’t have the coolness to plant and pick up an easy 3 or 4 at least!
“But despite looking similar on paper, Wendell Smallwood is bringing a different style of running than LeSean McCoy and Brian Westbrook. LeSean McCoy and Brian Westbrook were probably the closest things to Barry Sanders since Barry Sanders. Both brought electrifying change of direction ability, patience, creativity, and the able to create plays from nothing. Their flexibility, balance, and usage of varying speed, and tempo was great. These are traits that Wendell Smallwood doesn’t possess, even though it might look like the physical traits are similar (if not superior) on paper.”
Too bad about that whole “lose McCoy get Demarco Murray” thing… ;^(
Maybe to Emily Dickenson.
Doubt we will ever see smallwood running WR routes like B-west
It wouldn’t be the first time. He lines up at WR twice in the game Tommy included above.
Apparently you miss where I talk about how he is a complete back that fits well in the Westcoast offense, which implies a pass catching back..
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It’s not too unheard of for a RB to run some WR routes, but to do it at the level westbrook performed, give me a break. We friggin wish!
I am sure I miss a large portion of what you discuss, like anyone limited to a 24-hour day.
A complete back catching passes in a WCO is not the same as running WR routes. He did both, in the linked video.
I kinda see him as the anti-Shady, circa 2014. He’ll hit the holes when the OL makes them, but will struggle otherwise.
I wasn’t comparing him to McCoy. 😉
Wait, Westbrook and Smallwood rhyme? We’re taking back your poetry card.
Well in German their names are actually WestbrooekenvondieNovasechsunddreizehn and SmallwooderdsingenvonLandstrasse so I think something is just getting lost in translation.
Hard to argue with logic like that.
yes, in a German rap!
so Condon not only wants his client traded, not only is he against being traded to certain teams, but his weasel agent wants SAM to keep all his money?
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Now I’m getting annoyed.. Hope Roseman puts his foot down and refuses to negotiate with terrorists/agents of chaos (like little finger)
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I like Howie for the most part, but at a time like this, I wish we had a “War Time Consigliere”….
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How great would it be if Roseman hired Joe Banner and his only responsibility is to deal with Condon? lol Unleash joe Banner on the bradford Camp
He wanted Bradford to be traded to Denver. Philly’s asking price was too high and I don’t blame Bradford and Condon for raising shit to force a trade. The NFL is a business.
But right now they don’t have much leverage nor do they have many suitors for a long term deal.
Do you blame them for signing a two year deal with a new head coach while standing at the doorway to free agency?
They overplayed a weak hand. It happens – “only the bold succeed beyond expectations,” etc, etc. But now is the time to accept the fact that you lost your gamble and make the best of the situation as it stands. They have absolutely no credible leverage left. I don’t harbor ill-will for taking the shot, but I think that continuing to make that play is irrational at best, and childish at worst.
I agree, Bill. I think the time is right for his camp to start the peace process.
They overplayed their hand, yes. The part that bothers me, though, is that they had the whole deck a few months ago and chose this particular hand.
Much different information then vs now.
Is there really, though? When Bradford agreed to a two-year deal with a exit after one, when Howie avoided calling him a franchise QB and said they were looking for a guy to develop in the draft, did anyone think Sam was going to be here for the next 5, 6, 10 years?
If Sam and Tom sat in those negotiations where they were either (a) not offered a longer contract or (b) decided not to take a longer contract to get more money immediately, and thought that they were getting long-term security, shame on them.
why? everyone said he needed to prove it, he took a prove it deal. That’s when we had the 15th overall pick and a bunch of other draft picks to build a team around him. Now they traded a bunch of assets for a guy to be the franchise guy. Look at RGIII — look at how many chances he got from the owner if even he was terrible.
Nick Foles has a two year with the Rams negotiated last year – back when he thought he could be a franchise guy — they’re about to cut him. He might not have a job this year.
I don’t blame sam for wanting a draft trade, he could have hadnled it like sanchez, he didn’t that’s ok. Now i think he needs to get back to work but i’m never a person that’s like “you signed the deal, honor it” because we should say eagles should have “honored the deal” if they traded him at any point while he was under contract.
Exactly. I don’t mind their leverage play, but it is time to STFU and play football.
So he only wants to be traded to a team with a non-competitive backup that has no interests in starting? I don’t get it. Sam AND Condon can go to hell in a handbasket.
yes also a team that will compete for the SB.
I don’t think Sam and Tom would be comfortable with that, since it is pretty clear that Brady will be QBing there as soon as he is eligible.
They can’t even act like the denver situatuon is much diffrent for SAM future now that the Broncos gave up a 7th for Sanchez, and traded 3 picks to move up and take Lynch in round 1… That’s 4 draft picks denver dumped into the WR position this offseason… And we are talking about a Super Bowl champion that lost a ton of key talent this offseason that they need draft picks to replace, MALIK Jackson is a serious loss, Danny Travathan is a serious loss.
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They will probably have to sacrafice a few more key players once they give Von Miller “Suh Money”?
This is the perfect time to trot out my new lexicon for long lost insults. Here goes:
SB is a “moth of peace.” That is to say, a mere idler; one who consumes but does not work. In short, SB is a MOP.
Awesome idiom! Don’t hold back on us, old chap!
I’ll keep ’em coming, CT. Btw, watch what you post. I may insult you back and you won’t know it.
“we had a bunch of rb’s we liked and they started coming off the board quickly in the 5th round” — HR … that statement leads to wonder if this RB was their 1st choice or if they had a handful of them all rated the same. Aside from that feeling of ‘they didn’t get their 1st choice’ at rb the Eagles seem to have a good history at developing their rb’s. Will be disappointed if he’s on the practice squad though…
Smallwood will almost certainly make the 53. I think we’re pretty likely to carry 4 RBs.
Chiefs had 436 rushes last year. 84 were Smith (Bradford aint carrying 84 times) so some of that will have to come from somewhere else.
League average attempts is right around 425.
So we’ll use 425 attempts.
Where are they coming from?
Bradford had 26 last year, so we’ll say he has 25. We still need 400.
Sproles career high is 93. So we’ll be aggressive and give him 100. Still need 300.
Matthews career high is 285. He only has one other season over 185 carries. So again we’ll figure decent but not perfecet health and again make an agressive prediction of 200 carries.
That’s still at least 100 carries that need to be accounted for. Barner has 34 carries in his career.
Smallwood is a high probability to make the roster. Barner is probably competing with a waiver wire or conditional trade to be RB 4.
That last sentence is like a love letter to Media Mike.
It will be nice to see the meritocracy restored for roster decisions.
Agreed about Smallwood being on the 53. Is carrying 4 rb’s a lot? There was fan talk of carrying 10 ol and 10 dl too. 3 qb’s 5 wr’s and 3 TE’s … 5 lb’s? 1 long snapper, 1 kicker and 1 punter — 10 spots for corners n safeties? I guess 4 rb’s can fit…or am I missing something?
4 actual RBs (not including FB) is on the high side. I want to say offhand that only like 5-10 teams typically do.
Adam Caplan claims that people inside the cowboys organization believe they know something about Jaylon Smiths injury that none of the other teams know..
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God I want this to blow up in their face
if the medical records are shared, how can that be? If they held back records, that has to be a violation.
I think their Team Doctor performed the surgery.
he did but that doesn’t change my comment.
Agreed. But he might have stronger opinions one way or another since he was actually in there and saw the damage.
I agree, if he’s withholding info, that seems like a major violation.
agreed. It just seems like if the doctor thought everything looked clean and the surgery went well, that’s not “knowing something” that others don’t because the medical report should say that. If it’s that he has a bionic knee, that seems like a violation.
I wonder what they can know that other teams can’t find out with MRI and other tests.
Also the surgeon is the worst person to trust
I’d like them to ban college kids using NFL team doctors…. Probably not realistic, but I dont like the idea that team surgeons perform surgeries on elite prospects
It would be a tough sell to tell a 21 year-old athlete that they can’t go to the best surgeon because that doctor is associated with one of the teams.
That’s where the unrealistic part comes in unfortunately. Doesn’t mean I have to like it
The better solution is to just make sure all the best doctors work for us.
Trust me; this knee is brand new, the nerves are perfect, and Smith will be a 14 time All Pro………….
Probably some delusional Cowboy crap… A 4 win team talking playoffs in May, delusional as it gets
Wentzone reading: These weaknesses make for awful reading.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/04/pff-scouting-report-carson-wentz-qb-north-dakota-state/
It’s funny how all of these people who are writing these reviews, can have so many contradictory takes on specific skills. This PFF review is almost 180 degrees from the review posted a few days ago.
I’m a Wentz skeptic, but I’ve given up on trying to translate these prospect evaluations into some sort of expectations. We’ll see what he does when he gets his chance at the NFL, and until then, no one knows.
On the contrary, the analyses I’ve read about him all say about the same things. The only difference is the conclusions they draw from those factors–a wild spread of anywhere from “most pro-ready” to high prob. of bust. But as you say, the proof’s in the pudding.
you can be pro ready and probably a bust… QB’s are 50/50 at best. Wentz is rawer than some top QB’s taken and has less playing time to draw conclusions from so i would edge that more towards being a 55% chance of being a bust.
However he has the tools to be great – and almost no things you can project to say he cannot do at the NFL level – if he is able to develop every aspect of his game then he could be a complete QB in a Luck/Rogers mold.
Good discussion, all. Your 55% number is pretty much what I think. It would be interesting to see how these things usually work out.
This article has done some work on the issue and appears to claim that about 30% of 1st round quarterbacks bust.
http://www.footballperspective.com/which-positions-are-the-safest-to-draft-in-the-first-round/
I would have thought it was higher. Probably much more analysis is need, and each situation is different.
There were several disputes, but the one that stood out to me was the ability to progress through reads. The one the other day said that when he needed to, he did it very well, but that he didn’t often need to. PFF, on the other hand, really slagged him on that. Two completely different (hot?) takes on one specific skill.
For the most “pro ready” guy you’d think the offense had more progressions. That said we saw sammy get better at progressing through reads last year. Beginning of the year it was check down to RB or Jmatt all the time by the end of the year he was hitting people all over the field.
I think that was more of a lack of chemistry. Remember that Sammy B didn’t play much during preseason.
Scheme wise on offense he often had only 3 reads on a play – with 1 options sometimes being removed pre snap so Wentz not getting to his 3rd read seems a harsh criticism – and i think the criticism is silly considering so many college offenses do not even have conventional progressions within their game plan.
He definitely lacks play experience at the college level but he is no redshirt freshman and has spent 5 years working on his game but that is an absolutely fair concern. The final issues of deep accuracy and passing on the move i think are one and the same – he has poor footwork when throwing on the move which makes him inaccurate and that happens more when he throws deep. Does that need to be fixed? absolutely but if i wanted to have 1 flaw in a raw prospect poor footwork on the move is the most fixable in my opinion.
“Scheme wise on offense he often had only 3 reads on a play – with 1 options sometimes being removed pre snap so Wentz not getting to his 3rd read seems a harsh criticism”
harsh criticism or red flag?
Cosell had a very interesting discussion on this on a podcast back before the draft. He talked about the need to be careful about how you break down college players and especially QB’s regarding their tape when it comes to things they do and do not do at the college level and things they can and cannot do at the NFL level.
Wentz is asked to half field read and generally has limited progressions in NDSU scheme (which is a pretty advanced college offense for a QB comparatively… they only have 25 contact hours to install scheme, game prep and coach). That does not mean he cannot full field reads, nor that he cannot handle more advanced progressions than that it is simply that he was not asked to in that scheme. That leaves you with question marks and projections to the pro level. Where Wentz has shined in this draft process is with the coaching contact teams have had – either in work outs, combine or senior bowl – which is something fans have limited access to. Teams feel ‘confident’ that they can project many of his question marks well to the NFL level.
It’s only harsh if you love Wentz. Definitely a red flag.
No, impartially it’s a pretty harsh assessment of a college qb to say that he struggled getting to his 3rd read.
So basically they took everything that was already said here and put it on their article? Nice but they’re not wrong.
Hey! Vote to get the Liberty Ballers team (from the 76ers SB nation site) entered into The Basketball Tournament!
https://www.thetournament.com/teams/liberty-ballers?type=fan&f=572ca39490e7d639375749
They have John Salmons on their team.
“Is there anything more frustrating than watching a RB loop backward to avoid defenders.” – can’t tell if we miss shady or not.
Not as frustrating as seeing RBs slide…
Wonder when the last time an eagle RB did that before Demarco? And not counting smart RB like westbrook sliding instead of scoring to kill the clock..
Do you not remember when shady was here? When’s the last time that kid ran through contact. He was a “get down” player.
Yeah but self preservation for smaller weapons like Shady and Marvin Harrison is something I hope to see from all our key top players… But blatantly sliding to avoid a friggin CB, I can’t think of many times I saw Eagle RB do that.
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Once we invest a 2nd or 3rd down pick in a RB next year or the year after, I hope that player learns a thing or two from how Shady was able to avoid big hits…obviously there are times when I want to see the RB put his head down and run someone over, but I’d like for our best players to find a good balance between being physical, fighting for extra yards, and self preservation
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Same thing we have to hope for with Wentz
That slide will go down as the biggest slide in history. Don’t ask Mike Vick though….
“Vick” and “slide” are antonyms.
Does Wentz know how to slide?
Not yet.
seriously?
At least according to Roseman…unfortunately..
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When Roseman brought that up to Wentz, his excuse was something like “I just love the contact” and talked about how it gets him going.
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Roseman said teaching him to slide and protect himself is high on our to do list, because he obviously can’t use his throwing shoulder to run Limebackers over in the NFL but that he is a smart kid who understands that he needs to change that part of his game at this next level.
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bring Utley in to teach him.
Lot different quality of athlete in FBS vs NFL. He’ll learn quickly, probably in pre-season.
From the highlights I have watched, he doesn’t even know how to step out of bounds.
He did speak about protecting himself being a skill he must learn, though, so there is hope.
Barwin gave an interview today. Surprised to hear that he actually talked to Sammy boy a few days after The trade demand. He didn’t want to speak for SAM, which is normal because generally teammates try not to get involved in the business part of the game regarding other playërs, but offered that Sam felt blindsided by the trade, but Barwin seemed pretty confident that it won’t be a big deal and it will work out… For whatever thats worth..
Him and Jmatt said same thing. For whatever Jmatt lacks he makes up for in leadership skills, good lockerroom guy.
IMO, the only thing Jmatt lacks is time to develope into the beast Eagles fans want him to be.., I see a kid thats going to become one of our better players, and he is just a victim of unrealistic fan expectation and their desire for instant gratification not understanding the player Development process,
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I see examples of it all the time,.. Rewind a few years ago to June after the 2013 season. 70% of posts about bennie logan where people wanting to replace him because he didn’t dominate his first playoff game as a rookie, you see a ton of posts about wanting To draft a NT like Louis Nix in round 1 because Logan needed to be upgraded, which drove me insane..fast forward a year and the majority of all those anti logan posts turned into bennie is a beast posts
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Unfortunately it wasn’t enough of a learning lesson and we see a lot of similar oppinions about some of our extremely talented hard working yoûng players like Agholar and Jordan.
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Ideally every rookie comes in and looks like Jordan hicks immediately, but it won’t always work that way, doesn’t mean fans should be so quick to think they know what a kid like Jordan or nelson WONT become and place limitatiòns on kids so soon.
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I think 5 years from now, Jordan and nelson will still be starting WRs for the Eagles… A true measure of a draft pick for me is “will he earn a second contract from the team that drafted him?”
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If Jordans 4th NFL season looks like last year, Then I would start to get concerned. But I see a kid who is capable of so much more than we have seen up to this point, I see a young man who we know won’t fail because of a lack of work ethic…it’s possible that he fails for a bunch of different reasons, but work ethic will not be one of those reasons. Will he ever become a julio jones or AJ Green, maybe not. But I do expect both Nelson and Jordan to Develope into Longterm starters for us. I also expect them to grow to become a better starting WR tandem than what plenty of Super Bowl teams had at WR… Better than the Panthers WRs, better than Seattle’s WRs, better than the WRs for a few of the Patriot Super Bowl teams… Many seem to already rule them out from becoming elite #1 WRs, and While that may prove to eventually be the case, they don’t really need to be AJ green…. We will be just fine even if both only Develope into high end “#2 WR’s”…
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Im hopeful that bradford comes back and provides a level of play that can give Jordan and Nelson a chance to make some big improvements this year…. It’s not in their best interest to waste an important year in their development playing with Chase Daniel.
Hi TO – this is JM – I need help. TO – catch the damn ball. JM – thank you, have a good night.
I’d like to see the wrs develop into a Green Bay like corps. Jordy Nelson is really great but he’s not in that transcendant category. I think agholor has more of a shot at becoming elite than jmatt, but if you paid them with ertz, a competent number 3 wr, and even a manufactured run game, it should be pretty solid. Assuming, you know, wentz….
Yeah that would be awesome, a high, but possibly attainable goal for our youngins.
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They probably won’t be top 10 Wrs, but yeah they should be able to Develope into part of a high caliber arsenal of weapons as a whole..as long as Wentz is the truth of course
Matthews is going to struugle on thr outside. He is a good #3 option must play from the slot. He can have a bjg role on this team, but we need to add either a stud RB or another good WR to really open up things in the passing game.
Strongly disagree
Jordan was able to speak to him too?
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That contradicts the media Narratives that players don’t really care and only 1 player reached out to Bradford, and that Sam has gone dark and no ones as been able to talk to him
Smallwood = slightly faster poor man’s Devonta Freeman.
be interesting to see if devonta goes crazy again this year or if he’s a one year guy (montee ball). Great sleeper for me last year. Only bright spot on a team full of eagles.
He ruined 2 of my leagues.
quickly becoming my fav. long shot to make the team: BM
http://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2016/05/06/byron-marshall-could-fill-a-major-role-for-the-eagles/
Seems like an interesting player.
Entire NFL live panel just slammed Sam Bradford when speaking about the T.O. comments.
Enjoy my opus!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0U42G_4yqQNMm9JMTMzYUVIRkU/view?usp=sharing
Is that a Tastykake Butterscotch Krimpet in his hand? I hope the Philadelphia snack dessert tastes bitter and artery-clogging as he waits for a bus with his bags of money.
Think McCalister makes the team? Wondering if Marcus Smith can make the jump in Schwartz’s scheme, can we really have both of them?
McCalister is interesting to watch because he doesn’t really look like a DE. Maybe a 3-4 OLB?
I think he can be a DE – in fact i think it is his best position but he needs to nudge Lane for some ‘advice’ and spend a full year working out and adding muscle. Think he either does not dress or practice squads the entire year. Ideally he comes in to camp in 2017 at 255lb-260lb and having worked on his pass rush technique and having the beginnings of a bigger range of pass rush moves and suddenly you have an interesting player for the future.
Dude has 36″ long arms (!)
Holy sh!t.
Like MS2 coming out of college, I don’t believe that McCalister is strong enough to play in the NFL as a rookie… So for me, it would be ideal if he mysteriously stubs his toe and is forced to spend a redshirt season on I.R so we don’t have to expose him to being poached from our practice squad.
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Like Ms2, im very much intruiged by McCalisters potential, but neither are strong enough to really contribute as rookies against NFL tackles.. This will be MS2 third year working with NFL strength and conditioning programs, so if he is still not strong enough to play in the NFL, there is something seriously wrong and we should consider pulling the plug, but I cant imagine that still being an issue 3 years later, so Im pretty excited to get a look at Marcus this summer
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I think both Marcus and McCalister have a lot upside and are in great hands under schwartz
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I would be upset if we lost McCalister because we put him on the Practice squad, yet I dont expect him to be able to contribute enough as a rookie to be ok with losing Braman or Marcus to make room for McCalister… So im hoping to redshirt him and put him on ice. I love having Braman on special teams and I really want to see what marcus can do this year before quitting on him,so this situation is a concern for me.
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Maybe we can count Braman or MS2 as an emergency backup strong side Side linebacker, or count Curry as Cox’s emergency backüp and find a way to keep Braman, MS2 and McCalister on the roster, hate to lose any of them to keep inferior Backup LB’s and DTs
Shouldn’t we at least let the guy go through a minicamp before we start lobbying for ethically-questionable maneuvers to hide him from the world? This hype train seems to be leaving the station ahead of schedule.
Hype train? Lol really? You call not wanting To put a guy on the roster “Hyping him up”?? Ok…
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He isn’t ready as a NFL talent, how do you hype that? But when you take a raw kid you already know probably isn’t ready to contribute right away, WOULDNT it make sense to not give up on him immediately knowing he wasn’t ready when he was drafted? Lol but thanks for playing, come again
Hell yeah!
I predict his natural talent will outshine Smith in camp and he will make the team and Smith will be cut.
I think you get both. They could count Curry as both a DE and DT.
I think McCalister has practice squad written all over him. Dude needs to pack on muscle for a year or so before he’s ready to play in the NFL. 235 pounds barely cuts it for a LB, let alone a defensive lineman.
He’s PS or IR if he does well. He’s far too light to be effective right now. And lacks any kind of pass rush arsenal.
After chip kelly proved to be a disgrace when It comes to the “VALUE” aspect of being in charge of personnel, I really can’t stomach Roseman waiving the white flag when it comes to this game of chicken with the Bradford camp.
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We lost Desean Jackson for nothing. I don’t expect some 2nd round pick for Desean. But it blows my mind how we łet him go and got NOTHING in return… How the hell weren’t you able to get a conditional pick based on performamce? How the hell weremt you able to get a 7th round pick for Desean? How the hell werent you able to trade him to move up 8 spots in some round of the draft? How werent you able to pull off a player for player trade for some backüp or Subpackage player? DISGRACEFUL!
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Then we had all the leverage on our side, yet we thought it was ok to just cut Mathis, lose our best guard when we did not have some young stud on the bench being blocked by Mathis starting. You couldn’t trade Mathis to move up #8 spots n round 5?
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Lost one of the best backs we ever had for a LB coming off an ACL injury who only lasted here for one season.
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Lost Maclin, at a time where we couldn’t even get a Compensatiory pick because we were throwing Big money that we should have used to keep maclin, at some other teams free agent cornerback who only lasted here one season.
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Time for Roseman to put his foot down and Stop us from continuosly getting SCREWED when it comes to VALUE. I can’t take Roseman allowing Condon and Elway to screw us into losing the player that gives us the best chance this yeàr, so that we can pay
Iike 11million for some crappy 5th round pick from an elite team at that, which is basically an early 6th round pick. Please don’t allow us to get screwed While we bail ELWAY out of the mess he made at QB, and allow Bradford to go start for a Contender after the second round pick we lost trading for him. And the 22mil front loaded deal we gave him two months ago…
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please don’t let them make a fool out of us again! I Need Roseman to NOT budge on this. Put his foot down to the Point where we are willing to force SAM into retirement or missing another two years of his career if a team doesn’t give up acceptable compensation for Bradford.
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We lost a #1, 2, 3, early 4th this year because of Wenfz and Bradford. We will lose two more premier picks the next two years because of our QB need. Bradford is one of the best assets that we have that can fetch some trade value and that we are actually willing to trade to recoup some of our lost draft picks in the next two drafts. I really hope that Roseman is willing to hold bradford hostage for the entire two years of his contract trying to get suitable compensation in return.. I’d rather lose Bradford and get nothing two years from now, than to take some silly 5th round pick now, two months after he cashed a 5 million dollar check from us.
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As long as Bradford keeps this shit up, teams are likely to continue and low ball us with their offers. It’s unacceptable to allow him to do that to us, and go ride off into a denver Super Bowl sunset. IF bradford doesn’t change his stance, come to work, put all his focus into playing the best ball of his career, so that he can actually help us find a trade for Him that works for everyone involved. Help us find a trade that doesn’t completely screw us over… As long as he continues to fight us on this, instead of actually working with us to trade him, I need Roseman to take a ruthless stance with the Bradford camp and be willing to hold him hostage for the next two years, with NO COMPROMISE!
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Roseman has to only give him 3 options:
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1) Retire
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2) Sit out for two years, hoping that some team gets desperate enough to make an acceptable trade offer for him so it doesn’t come down to sitting out two years.
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3) Join your teammates, play 1 year if need be, working with us to eventually find a trade offer that works for the Eagles and Bradford.
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THOSE SHOULD BE HIS ONLY OPTIONS, and Roseman needs to be willing to not compromise on this and be ready to hold him hostage for two seasons if need be.
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I feel for SAM when it comes to the bad hand he was dealt when it comes to the injuries and being stuck with The crappy Rams… But he has been financially compensated extremely well for putting up with those circumstances, and Up TIL now he has made a fortune on his potential, and was paid a ton more money than what he provided to the franchises that made him a rich young man…. So while I know it sucks to have to learn another playbook and eventually start over somewhere else, having to start one more year for the Eagles before he can eventually find a team that offers him some stability ISNT the end of the world for him, when he isn’t even 30 years old years old yet and has barely had a career Up to this point…. It’s not acceptable for him to think its ok that he can cash a 6millilon dollar check in March, and feel like he is entitled to try and strong arm us into taking some lowball offer for him two months Later, that works for everyone involved except us..
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I want Bradford to be our QB This year, but I willing to see Roseman make a fair compromise and promise Sam that we will trade him as soon as a team makes an acceptable trade offer. So even tho we want him starting, Im ok compromising and trading him right now, or as soon as possible, but not until a team makes an offer that also makes sense for us. But SAM needs to also compromise, put an end to this crap that only encourages potential trade partners to continue and lowball us and be willing to play 1 more season if that’s what it takes to get his value up enough for a team to step up with a legit trade offer….. If that’s not ok for the Bradford camp, then I need to see Roseman stand tall, not give in, and be willimg hold him hostage for the next two years if that’s what it comes down to..
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Fuck outta here, I don’t feel sorry for him having to learn another playbook to make 20million for one more season
You can’t pay a QB, Cox, Maclin, Desean and Shady. You can’t pay shady $10m a year shifty backs don’t win SBs. Lost Maclin (tampering) got Nelson, i’m ok with that. At some point you had to turn over the roster.
Yeah that has nothing to do with disrespecting value and getting nothing in return…. You can turn over a roster without giving away a lot of your top talent
I agree. Part of me wonders if the team tanked djax’s value with the hope that chip wouldn’t straight cut a guy – then he did (and let ESP send out that trash article).
But the reality is with the exception of JP, Kelce and a couple of other guys, this is a completely new team.
Absolutely….Yeah I don’t really care that we got rid of any of them at this poïnt, with the exception of maybe MACLIN.. But too many times while Chip was here, the Eagles lost, while our talented players and some other franchise like KC, Skins, Broncos, Bills benefited from Chips disrespect of Value
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We just Witnessed Roseman find a team to trade for Demarcos overpaid contract coming off a season where he looked horrendous, while allowing us to trade up about 10 spots or so from our 4th round pick. we were able to get a pick for mark friggin Sanchez. we got value for Maxwells contract and Kiko… If we are able to get some type of value for players we didn’t want and were viewing as Cap dumps, it’s pathetic to think that chip got rid of so many talented players, barely getting anything in return.
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Turning over a roster is natural, but it helps turnover a roster if we get some type of value in return..
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I don’t expect us to have gotten a kings ransom for any of the players we lost, but to not get anything is really pathetic… Give us something, anything.. I don’t care if it’s a 7th round pick, or something like Trading Desean and a 7th for another teams 6th… Heck trade Desean to move up 5 petty spots in round 5…. Just get Something at least in return for crying out loud.
Really, all this complaining would be quieted by 7th? Silly.
This game of CHicken must be WON.
BInGo!!!
I’m SO FUriOUs!!
These never get old
Well it would at least show that Chip gave the slightest crap about value.
That’s nice.
If they had kept Jackson they would be down almost 20 mill in cap space. So kiss a long term contract for Cox goodbye. Every action has a reaction, and keeping him would’ve been bad for the team.
There’s no way he would have been kept on the contract he had. It would have been renegotiated.
Not so. After the $9M cap hit in 2014 the cap hits decreased every year after that by $1M. He would have only counted $8M against 2015’s cap and $7M against the cap this year. Very reasonable rates. He’s currently counting $9.25M against the Redskins cap this year as he did last year, by the way. That contract had a shitty year you had to bite the bullet on and get through in 2014 and then it became a very advantageous contract.
jackson wanted a pay raise, i think it was at that point chip flipped his shit.
redskins got djax on a sweetheart deal, i think there was little market for him and im sure he wanted to stay in division. that say hasnt been nearly productive enough,
You think he would have accepted a reduced contract without it affecting his already less than 100% effort?
That’s completely false. Cutting Jackson and signing Cooper in 2014 netted us an extra $1M in cap space in 2014. Having Cooper at $4.8M in 2015 as opposed to Jackson at $8M saved us an additional $3.2M. So we’d be down $4.2M.
I appreciate trying to examine replacement value, but you way oversimplify the analysis here. Jackson most certainly was not replaced by 5 players. A first round draft choice is reasonable. But look at it this way, if he had been kept we would be 18 million down and have him on an expensive contract rather than Agholor on a rookie. He clearly helps the team more than Agholor, but does he help more than over 25 million in additional player contracts? Because that would be the cumulative cost of still having him in the team. Fans never want to make the hard choices, but good organizations do.
I’m not sure where you’re getting your numbers. The year we traded him he had a $6.25M dead cap charge (with an overall savings of $3.25M), because he left we signed Riley Cooper to be the #2 next to Maclin and handed him $8M guaranteed. That series of moves right there cost us $1M, not saved. Going into the future Jackson’s Cap hits were $9M in 2015 and $8M this year. Agholar has cap hits of $1.7M and $2.1M in those years and we had to sign Miles Austin last year as well because we were so light on WRs and he made $2.25M. So in 2014 the combined moves of trying to cut and replace DeSean cost us a total of $11M. If you look into the future and look at the two most significant moves we made to sure up the #2 WR position (which I think is reasonable) we saved approximately $10M over keeping Jackson at his future cap hits. So overall we saved $9M over 3 seasons by doing what we did instead of keeping Jackson, letting Cooper leave and not drafting a WR at #1 and not signing Miles Austin.
You’re the one oversimplifying things. You can’t just add up his projected cap hits and then compare them to Agholar’s cap hit. That’s asinine. You have to include the dead money that we were charged against the cap when we cut him and you should also look at the other moves that WERE ABSOLUTELY made to replace his production and they included at the very least Riley Coopers contract and should reasonably include Austin’s as well.
Yeah, my numbers research definitely disagrees with yours. That said, this is the first Jackson discussion that relies on some logic and facts. If my numbers agreed with yours, I’d be inclined to agree. Nowhere to go from here, so I’m out. Thanks (except for the asinine comment).
Hey, sorry for the asinine comment. You’re right that was a bit aggressive. Thanks for the replies and the discussion. Hope you got to read Brian Solomon’s article that I linked to above. He really does go into more detail than I’m able to and outlines my thoughts pretty clearly. But, if we’re working off a completely different set of facts for this discussion then you’re probably right, it’s best to just agree to disagree. Thanks again.
So I was a little bored, and actually curious about some of the numbers you raised. Here’s my source: http://www.eaglescap.com/Players/DeSeanJackson.html
They saved 10.5 million on the current year’s salary when they cut him in 2014. They would have owed him roughly 22 mill for the two years after that, a little more than 11 mill last year, a little less this year. That’s some serious change. Given his personality and previous contract, including admitting that he didn’t play 100%, I’m not so sure that a renegotiation was viable. He was already not the best locker room influence. He needed the wakeup call of being cut and not offered a contract to maybe get a better grasp on his true worth. I don’t mind seeing people claiming he made the team better, though I disagree. But the claim that they cut him for nothing is nonsense, cutting a player is virtually no different than letting a free agent walk. It’s also important to recognize the opportunity cost of signing a player. You’re the first person I’ve seen in a Jackson discussion who seems to have a good grasp of that. I’m ok with what we got with the money saved, but it was definitely a decent chunk of change. Also, as a coach and ex-player (college, no pro), I despise the type of player that Jackson seems to be. So it’s hard for me to miss him. 😉
As far as every action having a reaction (or in this case compounding reactions that make the entire team worse), please refer to the segment of Brian Solomons article I posted above.
That’s nice,,, unfortunateky my point has NOTHING to do with wishing DEsean was still here, or being upset that we got rid of any of them… But thanks for your contribution
Jackson was way overpaid, no one was going to give anything for him. Can’t wait to year this story 20 years from now, part of Philly lore. He was traded for 11.5 million reasons.
That’s a lazy argument that gets thrown around too much and people have just accepted it to be true when it really isn’t. Jackson was set to make $6.25M in salary the year we cut him. With the prorated portion of his signing bonus he was set to count approximately $9M against our cap, which is certainly a bit more than his market value, for sure, but not egregiously so. For comparison sake, his current contract with the Skins had cap hits of $9.25M last year and again the same amount this year.
However, you have to understand three things about his contract and the way trades affect cap hits. One: if he were traded the team would have only been on the hook for his yearly salaries and not the prorated portion of his signing bonus. So the team receiving him in a trade would only have realized a cap hit of $6.25M. (Riley Cooper counted $4.8M against our cap last year to put that in perspective) A $6.25M cap hit is not at all out of line for a player like Jackson. Two: Jacksons cap hits on his Eagles contract were at there peak in 2014, but were set to come down by $1M each of the next two seasons. So in 2015 he would have counted only $8M against our cap and this year he’d only count $7M against our cap. And, finally, Three: the way we had structured his deal with much more early roster bonuses than signing bonuses, he would not have had any dead cap hit if cut in any year after 2014.
Essentially, once we bit the bullet and got through the $9M cap hit in 2014, he was on what amounted to a series of 1 year deals with reasonable cap hits, that got smaller every year of the deal and we could cut him at any time with no adverse effects on our cap in the form of dead money.
So, instead of keeping him in 2014 at a $9M cap hit, and then getting to enjoy him at a discount with maximal optionality and no risk if his skills declined, we instead cut him, which caused us to absorb $6.25M in dead money on that years cap, with a savings of around $3M. We then turned around and gave Riley Cooper a new contract that counted $1.8M against the cap in 2014 (with $8M in dead money if cut) and then $4.8M in 2016 (with $7.2M in dead money if cut…so we were forced to keep him on our roster for two years because we traded a contract with maximum optionality for one that had basically zero until 2016). So, instead of keeping Jackson at $9M against the cap in 2014, we spent $6.25M on nothing and $1.8M on Riley Cooper for a total of $8M. So essentially, we replaced DeSean Jackson with Riley Cooper for a savings of $1M.
But, back to your assertion that no one would have paid DeSean the contract we had given him. As you can see with the decreasing yearly cap hits in each subsequent season and the lack of any guarantees it was actually a fairly beneficial contract for any team willing to bite the bullet and spend a little more than you’d ideally want in that one year. Things got much better though after that.
Further, look at the deals Howie pulled off for Maxwell and Murray. If you think Jackson’s contract was untradeable take a look at those two. Maxwell has an $8.5M cap hit this year ($13.5M in dead money), $8.5M again next year with ($5M in dead money) and then it jumps to over $10M a year for the final 3 years of the deal. Murray has cap hits of $6.25M for the next 4 seasons and cannot be cut financially speaking because of exorbitant dead charges until 2018. And, both are coming off of down years as opposed to Jackson who had just had a career year and made the probowl.
I’ll be perma-salty about losing DeSean.
Yea…he was never close to my favorite player. But, from day one of that fiasco I was more than salty over how egregiously Chip had mismanaged his resources there. We all tried to justify it in our own way, but I’m still pissed over it like you.
I could wrap my head around the idea of not wanting a Jackson style receiver, from a schematic point of view, but there’s absolutely no excuse for the absolute waste of resources that accumulated from him being unceremoniously cut for no good reason and with no compensation.
and turns out jackson was great for his offense.
Probably not a coincidence the offense started to suck as the good players were dumped and replaced by ones far inferior.
Keep this up and I’ll be perma-upvoting everything you post.
Brian Solomon states it much better than I did:
“No need to reopen old wounds. Jackson was always a polarizing player and annoying off-the-field personality, but he was (and continues to be) a bona fide speed demon wide receiver. The main argument (made by reasonable people) at the time of his release was that Jackson’s salary was simply too high for his production. In 2014, he was to be paid $10.25 million, a top five salary at his position. Certainly that’s expensive, but not unreasonable for a 27-year-old coming off an 82 reception, 1332 yard, 9 touchdown campaign.
But beyond its initial cost, the contract was tremendously favorable to the Eagles. The salary actually decreased in 2015 and 2016, bringing him down to 15th-highest paid receiver territory. But most important—there was zero guaranteed money left on the deal. Jackson, a three-time Pro Bowler, was locked up through his most productive years, until age 30, and if at any time he lost a step or couldn’t play, he could be cut without penalty. That’s solid value—and better optionality.
Releasing Jackson and receiving nothing in return was already value-destroying. But it gets worse because this type of decision compounds. With Jeremy Maclin recovering from a torn ACL, Riley Cooper needed to be re-signed—the Eagles guaranteed him $8 million more than Jackson had coming to him. As discussed, such a multi-year guarantee locks you in to keeping a player. In 2015, 75% of Cooper’s $4 million base salary is guaranteed, making him virtually uncuttable. So the Eagles are stuck paying their fourth-string wideout like the 35th-best receiver in the league—and keep trotting him out on the field to justify the investment, even after it’s clear he stinks.
Moreover, the Eagles had to replace the discarded young talent. They traded two picks to move up in the 2014 second round to draft Jordan Matthews, then added Josh Huff in round three. After Maclin left in free agency—a loss that hurts more without Jackson in the bag—the Eagles guaranteed another $1 million (and $2.3 million total salary) to Miles Austin, a 31-year-old who’s likely to be the fifth-stringer and play little special teams. Oh, and they used another high pick, their first round selection, to take Nelson Agholor.
Count it up: not only did the Eagles miss Jackson on the field in 2014, but they spent more than $12 million and four high draft picks (in total the equivalent of the #8 overall pick, according to the classic draft value trade chart) to replace his production. Instead of filling a new hole, that money and those draft picks could have been used to shore up the defense, an actual weak spot.”
“But beyond its initial cost, the contract was tremendously favorable to
the Eagles. The salary actually decreased in 2015 and 2016, bringing him
down to 15th-highest paid receiver territory. But most important—there
was zero guaranteed money left on the deal. Jackson, a three-time Pro
Bowler, was locked up through his most productive years, until age 30,
and if at any time he lost a step or couldn’t play, he could be cut
without penalty. That’s solid value—and better optionality.”
Both Shady and Djax were talking about getting more guaranteed $, djax had mentioned a raise. I don’t think any of these 0 guaranteed years work out so simply.
Well of course…players can always hold out when they get to those non-guaranteed years, but that is extremely rare. Howie has structured most contracts like this over his tenure as the contract guru/GM. That’s why we were able to cut Asomugha and Babin after 2 years with minimal cap ramifications. In 2013, Connor Barwin, Cary Williams, Bradley Fletcher, Patrick Chung, ect were all signed to similarly structured deals that leave us with flexibility later in the contract.
DeSean had mentioned getting more guaranteed money after the 2013 season, stating that he thought he had earned it with his performance that year. DeSean very well could have returned to being pouty DeSean that made business decisions the moment he got to that point in his contract. But, the point is that we would have had the option to either rework his deal if we felt comfortable with extending him and adding some guaranteed money and dropping his cap hits so we’d get something out of it too, or we could cut/trade him without having a single dollar in dead money charges (as opposed to $6.25M, which is, as it turns out, significantly more than $0).
McCoy, however, did not do this. He actually came right out and said he was very happy to just play out the deal he signed and collect his $12M salary in 2015, but IF the Eagles didn’t want to carry such a large cap hit for him, he’d be open to a restructure that would lower his cap charge, while giving him some additional guaranteed money in future years in return. Which is pretty standard if a team asks a star player to take a pay cut to make cap room they make it up with some guarantees that can be spread out over the length of the deal (this is why Tony Romo can’t be cut from the Cowboys without an insane dead money charge until like 2039)
The point is, that the vast majority if all contracts in the NFL are set up this way. After the first few years, the dead money charges go away and all NFL contracts become a series of one year deals where the player can be cut at any time. We all know this. We talk about it all the time when we say that NFL players get screwed because they have non-guaranteed contracts and a team can cut them as soon as the guaranteed portion of the contract (which rarely runs for more than 2-3 years, often times only the first year) has run it’s course.
So, yes…these zero guaranteed years do work out that simply. It’s nothing magical or super secretive that Howie put in there, it’s just the nature of all NFL contracts and why it’s beneficial to get to those points on your contracts before you cut players. And, having a smaller WR who’s guarantees run out right before he turns 30, leaves you fortuitously in a good position. Right at the time he might be expected to lose a step you can cut him at any time with no cost. Of course, any player can go all TO and stop trying or hold out for a reworked deal, but that’s a pretty rare occurrence.
Here’s Brian’s full article that goes into a lot more depth:
http://mcnabborkolb.com/blog/2015/9/18/how-cutting-desean-jackson-continues-to-hurt-the-eagles
Your numbers are off, though I appreciate the thorough response. Cutting Jackson had a much bigger effect than 6.25 mill, due to future savings as well. According to Over the Cap, it saved them 11.5 mill in the 2015 market, and off the top of my ahead about 18 mill if they had kept him until now. I say Jackson was untradeable because he wasn’t traded, and Howie was certainly involved in trying to move him. He has hardly been welcomed with open arms in DC, and there has been a lot of talk of him being cut. They will probably let him walk at the end of this year, which is in most situations identical to “getting nothing in return”. As for Maxwell, it’s hard to say what he was traded for, since Kiko was included. I know that many in Miami did not like the deal, at least until Tunsil fell. Still, Roseman did well there. Murray was traded for almost nothing, so once again we’re splitting hairs over miniscule crap. If swapping a 4th would have shut down all the Jackson complaining, then wtf.
Demarco Murray is overpaid coming off about as bad of a year as he could have had… Doesn’t mean he has zero value to the rest of the league. HOWIE pretty much proved that
That’s nice.
BARWIN saying that he expects Bradford to Join the team in a week or two…
..
From PE speaking about Wentz responsibilities As QB of the Bison:
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“When his coach would call a play, Wentz would be given the personnel grouping, the formation and the play call, but The coaches would leave the protection calls up to him. That meant, every week Wentz had to put together his own planning of opposing defensive schemes and their personnel. What were their favorite pressure concepts? What fronts did they like to run stunts and blitzes out of? What were their tendencies in down and distance situations? He did all of that so on every single pass play in a game, he could come up to the line, survey the situation and set the protection to what he needed.”
Who wrote the PE quote?
This comes from Fran Dunfy I think, but it might be a Cossell’s opinipn he was quoting…. BGN has a link to it
So setting the protection against FBS defenses is the end all be all? The kid is what he is. Think they were buying based on brains and moxy.
Yeah that’s exactly what Cossell was trying to say….. Not
Luckily our center has done that for yeara. He can focus more important things for the QB. I seem to recall that Don called our protectiona but ita been the center ever sincw?
I’d like our center to try blocking this year.
But his beard wont blow in the wind as he wiffs open field blocks.
I don’t really care if he has that responsibility or not in the pro’s(which he won’t have) But I do like that he was given this responsibility, proved that he can handle it, because it shows a studious work ethic and an understanding of reading defenses or he would have never been given those responsibilities… Its a nice added perk for a team that has had QBs like VICK who could Barely read defenses after 5 years in the pro’s…
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The next step in Wentz mental development is learning not be fooled by all the pre snap disguises defenses will throw at him, which probably won’t happen overnight..
He got a ton of coverage from the major media so I focused elsewhere.
I’ll have plenty to say about Wentz, but let’s go elsewhere for now.
Using “elsewhere” twice in two sentences? That wasn’t very…articulate.
*ducks*
Please post the link to your professional blog so we can critique your writing.
Shall I start with your incorrect use of the ellipsis?
This was as a throwback to the previous post with a discussion about the use of the word articulate about black people, I don’t think it was meant as serious critique of Tommy’s writing
Ignoring what else he said, the ellipsis is acceptable usage.
I think Tommy’s usage of ‘elsewhere’ was fine though.
In the near future, grammar correction will be as ubiquitous as spell checking is now so learning to write good is a waste of time.
This is a very good point.
Only people with professional blogs can critique writing. Only people who have made movies are allowed to criticize a movie. And of course, only people who have played football can express an opinion about football players, schemes, coaches, and teams.
Good job.
P.S. You have a problem with my…ellipsis?
If you haven’t accomplished something, how can you criticize someone who has and does it every day? I guess you’re one of those people who want to give a teoph5 to everybody!
What? You literally just said people aren’t allowed to criticize something someone else did. Clearly it is you, sir, who wants to give a teoph5 to everybody!
You can use them to indicate a pause. Serious question, is this a professional blog?
You can not use them to indicate a pause, that is incorrect usage, so you fail. They can on,y be used to indicate something has been omitted (typically from a quote).
This blog is more professional than anything you have put your name to. He also posts articles you the Eagles website. What have you accomplished besides being a two-bit troll?
I guess I didnt learn as much as you did in electric engineering school!
If you’re looking for Ed Begley Jr’s Emmy winning performance in St. Elsewhere on HBO you’ll have to look elsewhere.
If you have a star on your hat or elsewhere, leave or else wear Eagles gear, because if this place isn’t Eagles or else, where is?
Who can we trade to the Redskins for DeSean Jackson?
djax for ags, straight up?
I’d much rather have Ags.
How about Kelce? Their center sucks.
yeah, id give him another year and half so i have a good sample size to determine what he can do. plus way cheaper and younger
Regardless what Ags does this year, would you really be ok giving up on a legit young talent after his second season?
He had the same stats as Freddie Mitchell but was playing 10 years later. He sucks.
Why would you want to do that? How many years of high level play does DEsean have left? Probably will be slowing down by the time Wentz is ready to lead us to significant wins…. Im not sure I would even give up Huff to get Desean back, let alone Ags or Jordan
If we offer Mathis and Maclin, do you think they will figure it out in time?
probably quicker than if we offered mcnabb for djax and a 2nd
This reminds me of my best friend. I offer him retired players in Fantasy Football and he blindly accepts. 2 for 1 usually seals the deal rather quickly.
I assume you mean you ex-best friend.
Barner
Mathews Algoholor Huff
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sandusky-case-bombshell-did-6-penn-state-coaches-witness-abuse-n569526
Really disturbing.
Awful, awful.
As somewhat of an aside, I don’t think it’s right of the NCAA to strip those wins from Penn State. The players who actually took the field in the games had nothing to do with the horrendous behavior of their coaches. Punish those directly and indirectly culpable, including the institution, but leave alone the records of the athletes who had nothing to do with the crimes.
I agree with this. The NCAA has a pattern of odd behavior when it comes to regulation and punishment though.
Imagine being a guy who played ball at PSU when you were still a teen, or maybe in your early 20s. You bust your butt and earn a considerable degree of respect. You know nothing about Sandusky and his ilk. Now, decades later, the disgusting behavior of which you knew nothing merits your losing the fruit of your hard work. Gott’a be a better way.
All the ppl who went to Penn State and paid money to keep that money machine rolling are just as culpable as Jerry Sandusky. If you are a Penn State fan you should be in prison.
They need to disband Penn State football immediately. That money machine allowed a child predator to abuse little kids. What a disgrace.