The DT Mystery
Posted: June 12th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 78 Comments »Fletcher Cox and Bennie Logan could be the best DT duo in the NFL this year. Cox has become a dominant player and Logan could really thrive in the new system, now that he’s asked to make plays rather than just eating up blockers. Watch him when he was able to attack upfield.
Velocidade e movimento lateral do Bennie Logan nessa jogada é impressionante, ainda mais tratando-se de um NT.https://t.co/bQEZhf1i0V
— Eagles Brasil (@EaglesBR) October 13, 2015
Or check out this play. The C tried to reach block him, but Logan was so quick off the ball that he blew up the play. He’s got the ability to be very disruptive now that he can fly off the ball.
Obligatory shot of Bennie Logan destroying the construct of a run play. Penetration off the snap is high quality. https://t.co/apdAWFPxWL
— Starbiter Satsuki (@FerragamoDurag) September 1, 2015
It will be a lot of fun watching Cox and Logan make plays.
Who will back them up?
Beau Allen is hurt and didn’t practice this spring. He played in the 4-3 in his first 3 years at Wisconsin. Allen totaled 6.5 sacks in 2011 and 2012, showing an ability to make some plays. Since his Senior season, Allen has been a 3-4 NT. He had 1.5 sacks as a Senior. Since coming to the NFL, he has 1 TFL and 0.5 sacks in 2 seasons. Allen isn’t the kind of guy who is going to make plays regardless of scheme. He must attack at the snap if he’s going to make a play on his own.
We didn’t hear much about Taylor Hart. I know he got some reps with the starters early on in the OTAs, but I have no idea how he fared.
Mike Martin was signed in the spring and got some praise from his teammates. He has played in 46 career games, including 5 starts. Martin could be a good backup for the Eagles. He is a better fit as a backup NT than 3-technique. Martin is 6-1, 298. He can be quick off the ball and shoot gaps, but isn’t explosive.
Derrick Lott was a UDFA last year, spending time with both the Titans and Bucs. The 6-4, 305 DT began his college career at Georgia before transferring to Tennessee-Chattanooga. You can see why Jim Schwartz would be interested in him when watching some clips.
Derrick Lott beats the chip block, then throws the OG off to make the play. pic.twitter.com/tXWhcit8AK
— Terry Lambert (@TLambertFB) March 2, 2015
Everybody check out #UTC's Derrick Lott https://t.co/enYJi8YtCR #GoMocs #Mocs #Chatanooga
— Bob Mulkey (@gomocs57) January 18, 2015
We didn’t hear much about Lott this spring so I can’t say much about his chances to really push for a roster spot.
What about the UDFAs this year? Will one (or more) of them stand out?
Azziz Shittu missed most of the spring because Stanford is on the quarters system and the NFL has some dumb rules.
Connor Wujciak did some good things, but got hurt and needs a pin in his hand. He should be fine by Training Camp. Wujciak is a good athlete and fits the Eagles system. He had 7.5 sacks at Boston College, but wasn’t allowed to attack on a consistent basis. He did have 21.5 career TFLs. Wujciak might be a guy that needs time on the practice squad before he seriously challenges for a roster spot.
The most interesting DT is Destiny Vaeao. He had a good career at Washington State and then played well at the NFLPA all star game.
End zone view of Destiny Vaeao with the strip. pic.twitter.com/kxenp4lEoF
— Brandon Smart (@BrandonSmart684) January 24, 2016
Another view of Destiny Vaeao beating the DBL team pic.twitter.com/ZXm2zHAvGy
— Brandon Smart (@BrandonSmart684) January 24, 2016
You can see some impressive traits in those clips.
Vaeao has good size at 6-4, 298. He is quick off the ball and knows how to beat blocks. He is athletic enough to win 1-on-1 matchups and is strong enough to handle double-teams. Vaeao was productive last year, racking up 4.5 sacks and 12 TFLs. He is able to play both NT and the 3-tech spot.
You might wonder if a UDFA DT can do much to help a team as a rookie. Fair question. The Eagles have had some success. Hollis Thomas was a UDFA in 1996 and started 5 games for a defense that finished 5th in the league in yards allowed. Sam Rayburn was a UDFA in 2003. He never started, but played in 10 games and had 2 sacks. Antonio Dixon wasn’t originally signed by the Eagles, but they signed him when the Skins cut him in 2009. He didn’t even have a full spring/summer to learn the Eagles scheme, but still played in all 16 games and was a solid reserve as a rookie.
The Eagles don’t need Vaeao, Wujciak or Shittu to start or be key players. They do need one of the guys to play well enough to earn a roster spot and help provide some depth. Shittu remains a complete mystery because we’ve seen so little of him. Vaeao feels like the guy to watch for now.
Watch his highlight reel and you will see NFL ability. Let’s hope that shows up when the pads go on at Training Camp.
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[…] Tommy Lawlor Fletcher Cox and Bennie Logan could be the best DT duo in the NFL this year. Cox has become a […]
I really hope Eagles D plays well this year… so much potential, but so many things different from last year. Could easily go either way.
Double A Ron where you at??
..driving back from Avalon?
He’s last.
This D is far from a finished product. We need another offseason or two to fill out the depth for this style and scheme. With that said this D appears as though they will be good and fun to watch.
$98 sounds good, but I don’t want to lose my food stamps.
I offered up my social security number on the last thread. You know save the poor thing the hassle of using a key logger to steal my identity. Guess they haven’t programmed spam bots to just take free info yet!
Great, spammers have finally invaded. Wonder if Tommy will finally appoint a mod now…
Where on the planet can you buy a McLaren for $18,512 dollars except a rusted out body up on cinder blocks that needs a complete overhaul.
Bet Logan gets extended within 6 months of Cox signing his deal. He would have Probably been extended already if it weren’t for the fact that It would be grossly disrespectful to pay him before we paid Cox, and Roseman has too much “emotional intelligence” for that 🙂
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I expect a Logan extension during the season, doubt they want to give him much of a chance to inflate his stats before we pay him
I wish!
Bennie isn’t going anywhere….
Unless his side wants to gamble that he will not get hurt and will not partake in negotiations until after the season. It is a gamble, but one that could very well be worth it for Logan. Alot like Maclin.
I love the guys the Eagles picked up as UDFAs. Destiny has a great chance to be backup DT this season and play around 20% of the snaps (We have to remember that Vinny will most likely play a lot of inside DT as well).
Wujciak sound like a great guy to have on the PS or on the IR with a “phantom” injury
I suspect the D will be quite variable this year, capable of some dominant performances but with a few games where our depth in a few key areas (DT, LB, CB) gets very badly exposed. I’m more than happy to be patient while the roster develops though as I just can’t wait to see 4-3 lineman teeing off on QBs again. Without an outstanding rush OLB the 3-4 is DULL.
Like several other positions on the team, DT is one where the depth is unproven and built on a lot of ifs lining up right. We need to pray for good health for the starters.
That’s true for almost every team at every position. The good coaches and organizations handle injuries better, the losing ones use it as an excuse.
Does not make it any less true – the good organizations and coaches usually handle injuries better because they have drafted and developed better depth/talent and have made contingency plans if they need to go outside the current roster. The “next man up” attitude is helpful, but if that depth player is mediocre or sucks it is not going to matter. Injuries are not overcome by sheer willpower alone; preparation and a focus on development of talent are important components too.
The DTs are probably the reason Schwartz came here. If he thought there was no talent to work with to revive his career, no way would he agree to coach in Philly. When you consider how good these two are, and the fact you’ll also have guys like Curry and Graham flying to the QB, he might be able to choose his HC position in the next year or two.
I think he needs at least 2 years of dominant defense.
He had a great year in Buffalo and was forced to sit a year because nobody wanted him
I’m not sure any defensive coach said “wow, I have to be in (name any town) because of the DT’s”. Lot’s of reasons to be in Philly — but the DT’s isn’t “the reason”….
I couldn’t disagree more. It all starts up front, especially in an attacking 4-3, and especially in the middle.
no one is questioning that it all starts up front — but that is not “the reason” why a DC would go to any team….A coach would have to be an idiot to base a decision solely on DT’s…
Schwartz can’t even run his scheme without quality DT/DEs. It’s what his entire defense is built around
No shit. Schwartz ran a VERY good defense in Buf without the DL in Philly. Schwartz can run a very good defense probably wherever he goes. Also, there is no guarantee that Cox/Logan will be here in the near future(I truly hope they are) but they are both going to be expensive.
Ayyyyyy settle down sparky…
don’t make me hit the down arrow on your comments 🙂
Ohhh Dems fighting words right there… “You wanna Go?”in my Canadian Hockey player accent)
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If you are feeling Froggy, then LEAP mofo! 🙂
Think you are undervaluing a position that gets 100million dollar contracts.
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And when it comes to Jim Schwartz, his entire defense is built around the DL, so you Better believe who a team has at DT and DE is one of the more important factors when evaluating defensive jobs to take…. He can’t run his defense with average DL, or with a DL that lacks depth.
I’m not undervaluing the position. please re-read that again. I’m questioning his comment that the ONLY reason why the DC came here was because of the DT’s…not only do 100% disagree with, it’s a silly statement to make…
There is NEVER ONLY one reason that a DC takes a job, but when it comes to schwartz, you can bet the DT/DE’s are high on his list of what’s most important.
.l
Im sure the freedom Pederson will allow him also factored into his decision, as well as a bunch of other factors
again — NFS — and agree 100% — I never said DT’s weren’t high on his list. I never said he doesn’t like DT’s. I never said he didn’t like the DT’s that are here in Philly. All is said — and follow the words — DT’s were not THE ONLY REASON.
There is NEVER “ONLY” one reason so thanks for clearing that up captain Obvious… I thought the semantics bullshit left with Chip?
I thought my 1st response was obvious and clear. I’ll do my best next time…please don’t ban me from the site…
Im really just breaking your balls, no worries man
:)…its going to be a long off season. have to have some fun…
Spring board possibly back to another HC gig which I never thought was going to be possible after how much of a disaster his HC tenure in Detroit was.
Rebuilding takes more than one spring but so far looks like this defensive side of the ball is headed in the right direction…
That’s because the defense has been slowly rebuilding since 2012.
The guard who gave up the sack to Vaeao…
That would be fellow Eagles UDFA Darrell Greene.
hahahahaha….now that’s funny…
We just wanted to make sure we scooped up everyone involved in a great play.
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Jesus ESP is an idiot. Talking about cutting Mathews and going young at RB. Yeaaaah, cutting the only player who, albeit with injuries, is the only RB on the roster who have proved to start at RB in the NFL.
Proles cannot start, plain and simple, it would kill him. Barner is horrible, and even if you like him he has like 25 caries in his career. Smallwood is a 5th round rookie and Marshall is a UDFA. I’d love for them to show they were steals and dominate the league being a monster duo, but realistically, it won’t happen and best case scenario for Smallwood would be Mathews carrying the load, him subbing in and Sproles having his usual role. I haven’t even mention the 3 mil in dead money by cutting Mathews. ESP: ” Do this smart thing, because reasons”!
Sometimes I wonder why the Eagles fans haven’t enacted the rule that any reporter that stupid, just gets a ticket to Cleveland to cover the Browns and a permanent prohibition about entering Philly.
Eternally Stupidity Prone is undoubtedly horrible. But he is provocative in being so, and it’s hard to imagine that his bosses don’t value him for that. That’s his shtick. I never read him now. That’s the solution.
Marcus Hayes is another. Garry Cobb is barely better. Jeff McLane is a tool, as is Eskin…the list goes on. I’m even getting bugged by that British dude Liam Jenkins now too.
That’s the nature of the beast. If we got rid of all the bad ones, the only people reporting, blogging, or writing about the team would be Tommy, Jimmy, BLG, and the Birds 24/7 guys. That’s not realistic.
Nothing baffles me more than seeing fans post in the comment section of a donkey ESP article…. How the hell does that dude have fans who follow his work every single day? Talk radio hosts might even be worth listening to more than elliot.
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ESP is the Rich KOTITE of Eagle reporters
Have you not seen Banner’s Hulk-like biceps? You want to carries away from him?! (hint sarcasm font not available)
Convinced that after This next season, Cox and Bennie will be recocognized universally as one of the top 3 DT tandems in the game.
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logan claims that he shed a nice amount of weight for this scheme change, and he plans on playing at 305lbs This season. curious to see what Lighter bennie Logan looks like in a Schwartz scheme that should allow him to attack more instead of always having to do the dirty work
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Beau Allen also claims that he trimmed down for this new scheme
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Hopully Martin can take Taylor Harts roster spot, but im not sure what to expect out Of him other than that this is the ideal scheme for him
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hopefully one or two of the UDFA DT’s really impress and prove to be depth upgrades to the backups in place that were drafted for a two gap scheme…be great if one emerges as a Cedrick Thornton type Gem
Isn’t this the last year of Logan’s rookie contract? If he breaks out this year, I’d be willing to bet he’s gone in free agency next off season.
Nah he ain’t gioing anywhere… Assume he gets extended early in the season, or right before the season starts like Kemdricks extension.
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We are NOT in the business of losing elite players that we drafted
I don’t think Curry is going to play as much DT on 3rd down like many seem to be expecting.
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Having an 8 man rotation under schwartz is crucial. Every DC wants to rotate his DL, but it’s more important than ever for a DC who is going to ask his DL to play balls to the wall and explode into the backfield on every single play. We probably won’t see DL often playing more than 8 snaps in a row. This scheme DOESNT work if you have winded DL trying to get in the backfield. It’s more important than ever to use a rotation to keep fresh DL in at all times.
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No doubt that we will see 4 DE’s contributing in each Game… curry is too important to the DE Rotation for us to dick around with moving him inside. Those days are OVER. I expect to see about 98% of vinny’s snaps this season at DE
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Another Bold prediction: this notion that Graham, Curry and BARWIN will be the key rotation, and MS2 or whoever is the 4th DE will play significantly less than those 3 will also prove to be False… I have a feeling Schwartz will get enough out of MS2 to be able and play with a straight two Platoon approach where NS2 will play almost as many snaps as Brandon Graham, because instead of mostly rotating the 3 DEs, I think MS2 will improve enough to allow schwartz to just rotate the two lines…. Vurry will pair with a more athletic BARWIN, and those two come off the field and BG and the more athletic MS2 will come in the game for 6 to 8 snaps at a time…… Basically I don’t believe we will see as big of a difference between the number of snaps VINNY, BARWIN, and BG play compared to the amount of snaps MS2 gets. I expect to see MS2 on the field, whenever BG goes in the game…
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We will Find out all we NEED TO KNOW about MS2 by seeing If Schwartz trusts him enough to go with a two platoon approach giving MS2 as many snaps as BG gets, or if MS2 still struggles to the point where Schwartz will have to try and Rotate the big 3 at DE and MS2 only gets a fraction of The snaps that BG (the Backup DE) ends up getting.
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If we see Schwartz have enough confidence to run a two platoon rotation at DE, that would indicate that MS2 is coming along better than expected
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised there are Eagles’ fans even in Brazil but having been there several times I never saw the NFL having any visibility. It is soccer, soccer, soccer with a few other things mixed in including auto racing.
Yes, the Eagles just announced a contract extension for Cox!
6 Year extension for the big man
Eagles fb account just put up deal with cox 6yr extension is done n done
No numbers yet.
Here’s a link to PFT’s breakdown of Bills DT Marcel Dareus’s 2015 contract extension for $95.1 MM (announced as $100 MM) — with $60MM guaranteed.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/10/marcell-dareus-gets-429-fully-guaranteed-at-signing/
Cox’s deal likely tracks Dareus’s.
Both Cox and Dareus are rep’d by agent Todd France.
I’m glad the Eagles and Fletch came to terms on a multi year deal. I love Fletch as a.player. The money is enormous; the cap is going way up and hopefully the Eagles have plans to make sure they have enough space to build an elite team around Fletch.
Given that he’s a) the best player in the division, and b) a top-3 DL in the league, I don’t get why so many people are calling the money crazy. This was not really directed at you. As you said, the cap will be going up, and in two years this is likely and under-market deal (depending on the structure).
Its the largest chunk of guaranteed money ever given to a non-QB in NFL history. That is enormous no matter how it is sliced. Yes, the cap is going way up, but I do hope Fletch continues to perform and the Eagles have a plan to build an elite team around core.players like him. I want a SB ring before I die.
For sure, and Cox needs to keep performing at the same level to make the contract worth it. But he’s a 25 year old stud. He’s the type of player you build around.
While I overall liked the Ertz and Curry signings, I felt those guys got overpaid. I don’t think Cox got overpaid. This is not much different than the Dareus signing a year earlier, and I’d rate Fletch over Dareus (although not by a significant margin).
Glad its done. Just hope the burden of the contract doesnt get to him. Dont think he is the type. Next time he can pay Nelson’s tab.
Excellent, now we can finally get our Super Bowl, just like the other teams that broke the bank for a DT the last few years: the Texans, Buccaneers, Bills, and Dolphins!
so… They would have won superbowls if they didn’t sign those players?
Maybe they just didn’t give them enough money!
Also, bye bye Bennie Logan ;(
Not!
Just read Bermans tweet bout our players tied up long term. til ’22 – Cox. ’21 – Ertz, Johnson. ’20 – Curry, McLeod, Jenkins, Brooks, Kelce. He didn’t note Wentz 5th year option is included in the ’20 guys.
This makes me pretty happy. Obviously a lot can happen between now and then in terms of injuries, performance etc BUT all we need is for these players to perform AS EXPECTED for that to be a great nucleus. We aren’t requiring them to go up a few notches for that to be a great core of players to have around for the duration of those contracts.
There’s so many stud DTs these days. Aaron Donald, Watt, Gerald McCoy, geno Atkins, Calais Campbell, Muhammad Wilkerson, shendon Richardson, Suh, Ngata, I mean the list goes on. And the draft was deep at DT. Is Cox worth it?
It’ll be interesting to see if he can single-handedly turn a loss against a good team into a win. If J.J. Watt—supposedly the best defender in football right now—couldn’t stop the Texans losing 30-0 in their playoff game, then I wonder how much value Cox will provide over an average DT in Schwarz’s DT-friendly scheme.
I guess we’ll just have to hope…
Well to be fair I think I heard Watt was seriously hurt (torn groin , like separated from the bone or something???)
And I could certainly see his PR team wanting to spread that information even if it wasn’t true. It would be pretty embarrassing otherwise.
He’s someone who’s benefited from playing the Jags, Titans, and Colts twice per season; I wonder how much that has inflated his stats…
He is a special talent. I would list him over the majority of those players. Look what he did as a 2 gap DE. Expect far more then that as a 4-3 1 gap DT.
Keep in mind the cap is rising.
Cox had better numbers then Suh in his first 4 seasons playing less games and in by far a less then ideal system for the vast majority of his career. Dude deserves the $. He is a better player with less controversy.
*fewer
Down vote me.