Beware Fool’s Gold?
Posted: September 12th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 311 Comments »Putting any NFL game into context can be difficult, but season openers are especially tricky. Remember how shocked we were last year when the Niners dominated the Vikings 20-3? SF was expected to struggle and the Vikings were a team on the rise. That game made a lot of people re-think their evaluations. In the end, that game meant nothing. It was lightning in a bottle. SF was terrible and the Vikings did emerge as a playoff team.
Another game from the 2015 opening weekend involved the Jets and Browns. The Jets were slight favorites, but they had a new coach in Todd Bowles and a new QB in Ryan Fitzpatrick. The Jets won the game 31-10. They didn’t dominate in terms of yardage, but 5 Cleveland turnovers and 12 penalties gave NY a big edge and they took advantage of it. The Jets went on to finish 10-6, just missing the playoffs.
So compare that to the Eagles win over the Browns from yesterday. The Eagles dominated in terms of yardage, 403-288. Cleveland did drop several passes, but had only one turnover and 4 penalties. The Eagles had 7 penalties and also had some dropped passes. The Browns had a terrible shotgun snap that led to a safety, giving away 2 points. The Eagles missed a FG, giving away 3 points.
Both teams were a bit sloppy, as most are in openers. The Eagles simply played at a higher level. They were clearly the better team. The Browns look like they will be one of the worst teams in the league. That’s part of why putting the win into context is so tricky. How do you rate the Eagles after watching them manhandle an inferior opponent?
Let’s keep this simple. You can break the NFL into 3 tiers: top teams, middle group, the bottom of the league. I think most people had the Eagles in the bottom group heading into the season. After a game like yesterday, I think it is fair to say the Eagles looked more like a middle group type of team. The Browns didn’t have a bunch of fluky turnovers. The Eagles didn’t score TDs on blown coverages or weird plays. The Eagles controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball and made more plays.
Go beyond that. The Eagles dominated on STs. Rookie Kamu Grugier-Hill made a big play on the Browns ridiculous fake punt. The Eagles were much better coached. Anyone arguing for Hue Jackson in the offseason must have been wondering what was going on yesterday. He did some strange things and some dumb things (that fake punt was incredibly dumb). And Jackson has been a head coach before. So has Pederson I guess, if you count high school. That was not a good opener for Jackson. He looked like the novice, taking questionable chances and doing gimmicky things. Pederson looked like the guy with experience. It will be interesting to see how the two of them compare a month or two down the line.
I think the Eagles can take a lot away from that game. You did see Connor Barwin beating star LT Joe Thomas for a sack. You did see Nelson Agholor beating Pro Bowl CB Joe Haden for a 35-yard TD. This wasn’t all “Let’s get a WR on Jordan Poyer in space” kind of stuff. The Browns do have some talented players.
Eagles fans should be optimistic about this team.
*****
The debut game for Carson Wentz has everyone’s attention.
A rookie QB that didn't get a lot of run with the 1s during the preseason, shouldn't be throwing passes w/ the anticipation Wentz has. Nice!
— Jayson Braddock (@JaysonBraddock) September 12, 2016
Wentz just audibled when he was cross dog blitz coming for big gain. This kid is wise beyond his years.
— Ross Tucker (@RossTuckerNFL) September 11, 2016
Carson Wentz vs. the blitz yesterday:
11/12, 129 yards, 7 first downs. (@jawsespn)
Those ain't rookie #'s. #Eagles
— Tyler Steege (@EaglesFanTalk) September 12, 2016
This is what @gregcosell would call a 'DNA throw'. You either have this, or you don't. Wow. #Eagles pic.twitter.com/i0syncgsbn
— Fran Duffy (@fduffy3) September 12, 2016
Interesting. @MikeGarafolo says #Eagles QB Carson Wentz won’t have limitations playbook-wise today. Sounds like he got after the mental part
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) September 11, 2016
That last tweet is is key. Plenty of QBs have a big arm. Plenty of QBs have good size. There are more than a few QBs who are good athletes that run well. You don’t find many that combine those attributes with intelligence and work ethic.
Wentz didn’t play like a typical rookie on Sunday because he doesn’t act like on the other 6 days a week. He works his butt off to be prepared off the field so that when he gets on it his brain will be as much a weapon has his arm or legs.
I think we also have to praise Doug Pederson, Frank Reich and John DeFilippo on both running a creative offense and developing Wentz. I guarantee you that if you flip Jared Goff and Wentz around, Wentz would not be where he is now in terms of development. Goff would be ahead of where he is. Some people know how to coach QBs. Others, not so much.
The Eagles did a good job of hiring the right group of people and then spending a high pick on a QB for them to work with. Chase Daniel, and even Sam Bradford to a lesser extent, also deserve credit for helping Wentz to come along this quickly.
_
[…] Tommy Lawlor Putting any NFL game into context can be difficult, but season openers are especially tricky. […]
I remember when Nahmdi only played one side of the field.
Who?
I think he was the team valet.
And he would warm his lunch on the dash.
Nnamdi Asomugha liked to play RCB. So did Cary Williams. So did Byron Maxwell.
Ugh
Better we just dont talk about them.
Gandhi’s cousin.
So, Tommy, tell us how you really feel about the fake punt with no punter.
I’m surprised this play isn’t getting more ridicule. It’s right up there with that ridiculous trick play with Colt Anderson running an unblocked QB sneak the Colts ran against the Pats last year as far as monumentally dumb play designs go.
It might get more ridicule if it wasn’t the Browns.
It was definitely noted in the articles I read by Cleveland writers. Hue Jackson was portrayed as an amateur.
Also, the punter was a blocker, but they still only had 10 guys on the field for that play.
So, are you saying I should hold off on getting the 3rd mortgage to buy tickets to see the Eagles in Houston come February 5th?
Vegas has the Eagles at 30-1 to win the NFC and make it the SB. A $100 bet would win you $3000. That would cover tickets and expenses in Houston. I’ll chip in for a stamp so you can send us a card.
$3,000 wouldn’t cover the expense of Superbowl tickets plus airfare plus hotel plus food/drink. Might cover half of it…if you get the “partially obstructed view” seats.
Well, at least the offer for me to cover the stamp still holds.
If we all chip (pardon the word) a dollar, we can give him cab fare from the airport. Never mind He can ta!e the bus.
We could also chip in for a smoothie.
One of the frustrating realities of trying to evaluate prospects is that often you don’t get a clear picture of whether you were right.
For example, some of our amateur scouts liked Goff, but as Tommy pointed out, no one can claim each player would turn out the same if switched.
Like Tim Couch probably would have been better than Donovan McNabb has their situations been reversed.
Like Cleveland fans now saying they should have taken Wentz but if they had taken Wentz he would have been a horrible bust and they would have called it a dumb pick.
Hell hath no fury like the fanboy scorned.
The amatuers hated Wentz and loved Vernon Adams and Connor Cook
Highlights: Every Carson Wentz Throw From Week 1
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/videos/videos/Highlights-Every-Carson-Wentz-Throw-From-Week-1/e17fa21e-73c0-42f7-aec1-81e22cf81ad5
wow, no incompletions. perfect game.
Deangelo Williams looks fresh!
and your earlier comment about WAS is very stale!
🙂
So you are saying not to get too excited, but we should probably be excited? Tommy come out and say what you want. It was the first game in a HOF multiple championship career.
I think the term you are searching for is either game-changing or transcendental.
Good start.
If he’s half as good as i am looking foward to watching him..no one in philly will have to get NFL TV cause every Eagles game will be national! !
Tommy, I’m still waiting on a longer version of your opinion of Jeff Fisher (which you hint at here)…
I don’t think we can read too much into the defense’s performance from this game. They were unquestionably aided by the Browns’ offensive incompetence. However, I don’t think we need to grade Wentz on a curve. The Browns’ D didn’t play terribly. They got some pressure on him. They didn’t blow coverages. They had the Eagles’ receivers blanketed on several plays where Wentz just made great throws and they came out with plenty of blitz looks that Wentz correctly diagnosed and beat with audibles or hot reads. That TD throw to Agholor was a perfectly thrown pass against a Pro Bowl caliber CB. I think we have every reason to be optimistic about #11.
If the NFCE title goes through Washington, it shouldn’t slow down there for long.
How bad do you have to be to finish 3rd in a QB competition that’s won by Case Keenum? That guy is not a starting NFL quarterback.
You wonder if Fisher was even rooting for him.
They may also have playoff aspirations their first year in LA and a rookie QB may not be the one to do that.
Not that this is the way to read it … but if our QB coaches are sofa king good. . Then Chase Daniels is getting 4 of his 7mil to coach
Maybe having a crappy QB who can run is the key to making Chip’s offense work.
I don’t miss this offense at all.
I agree, thought the same thing the first time they showed everyone looking toward the sideline.
I wish Chip didnt get to open the season against such a shit team.
Its even better when they get beat down the rest of the season.
Man, Chris Berman is just brutally bad as a play-by-play guy.
Was better 30 years ago. But that ended 20 years ago.
I feel like Steve Young just doesn’t say enough so it makes him have to grunt even more.
The game plan worked, and Wentz didn’t have to make a lot of progression reads. His first read was almost always open. We will see what happens when the game plan isn’t so good.
On the other hand, he did run the offense, attacked down field, and generally looked like a seasoned pro, which is fantastic for a rookie. I want to believe
What makes you say his first read was almost always open? From my memory, I recall him looking from receiver to receiver and throwing balls away.
http://chipwagon.typepad.com/eagles/2016/09/a-debut-to-remember.html
I’ve seen this, and it is good stuff.
Maybe I am reading one of you too literally but “more often than not” is a far cry from almost always. The Eagles lost more often than not last year. The Browns lost almost always.
I honestly feel like something is getting lost in the narrative with the “Wentz + Progression Reads.”
First, none of us are really equipped to evaluate this, but let’s pretend that we are.
When guys like us say “Wentz didn’t have to make a lot of progression reads”, we’re effectively saying “I didn’t see him scan the field and then throw the ball to the open guy.”
But by all accounts, Wentz is an exceptionally intelligent QB.
What if Wentz only needs to see the alignment pre-snap, see the first rotation as he’s dropping back, and then he has a good idea of where the ball should probably go?
I feel like this was the case at NDSU, and was one of the reasons people knocked him.
I think this is a very good point. Around the time of the draft, I remember seeing the same NDSU play analyzed by two different people is separate videos. The first guy saw an issue with how Wentz had his eyes locked on one receiver the whole time. The second guy pointed out that Wentz knew from the coverage that the receiver was going to be open and was locked on to him waiting for his opening to throw the ball.
No one’s complaining about the touchdowns. Or making a quick, accurate pass to someone who’s open. It’s the ones where he holds on to the ball, either doesn’t see who’s open or doesn’t realize that no one’s open and it’s time to bail on the play. Those come down to knowledge, processing speed, experience, and instinct and are probably the biggest difference between excellent QBs and the average ones.
It’s almost like the full field look deep right, look short right, look left, move in the pocket, come back to the middle of the field for a checkdown plays are far less common than people think…
ahhhh lol, the quick screen pass in the dirt on the sideline on 4th down. I love Chip.
I’m interested to see how Wentz handles Chicago. I want to see if the noise can shake him. He smartly used all the play clock to read the defense, hard count and motion to get defense to show their hand, audible, etc. When the noise kicks in and it is hard to get the play called and the guys lined up and all that, on top of the “it’s a rookie, throw everything and the kitchen sink” blitzes. I don’t think the hostile environment will render him useless, but I think it may bring out some rookie moments that we didn’t get to see in the opener. Hard to call this one. I expect a win, they need to be able to win these sorts of games, just not sure if it will happen in the early season fog.
Guess the best thing for him to do is get a big lead early. I’m ok with that.
yeah, our ability to quiet that crowd (by taking an early lead) could be the difference between a dog fight in the mud and an easy win.
Chip hasn’t taught Gabbert to slide either. If he keeps that up, Kaep will be the quarterback before long.
the niners are looking so good that chip might have to cut some key players soon
Only the black ones
#racistchip
Cool commercial, on MNF… FlyEaglesFly with Barwin and Wentz…
I wish the Eagles had lost that last game vs. NYG last year. Then we would have been playing the Rams in England as a road game vs. having to go to Seattle this season.
Anyone else as concerned as I am about the play of Jason Kelce at center? He got blown up numerous times yesterday. I was hoping that he would return to form this year, but I fear we will need an upgrade at that position sooner rather than later.
I bet Media Mike is concerned as well. Id bet a bottom dollar.
You could have bet every dollar.
Hes been terrible for years. I wonder if Mathis and Herremans were making him look good.
Yup. His last decent season was ’13 and his Pro Bowl nod in ’14 was ridiculous.
I still don’t think it was coincidence that they drafted an OL with C experience, signed a veteran FA with C experience, and signed the top FCS center as a UDFA.
I’d personally prefer more of a Jamaal Jackson type, and I bet Pederson would too.
Ehhh, he Rodney Hudson who is more of the Kelce mold for two years in KC, last year they drafted Mitch Morse whose probably a top 5 Center already. He’s a 6’5 former college T, whose the full package of strength and mobility.
Morse seems more functional strong in the run game than Kelce.
He is.
Yes.
Kelce is defintly a guy who might never be what we want going forward consider we are moving away from Howard Mudd’s 100% zone scheme to a more man scheme.
The new blocking scheme is more like Bama or Michigan than the Colts or Oregon.
The ChipWagon review points out a few blocks he missed in a disturbingly offhand way.
https://i.imgur.com/JaM1Hnj.gif
That might just beat the Burger King.
Absolutely wonderful. I think this is the year Tommy’s little blog begins to reach its creative potential.
Like someone mentioned yesterday, is that Chip’s playbook Carson is throwing?
Too big.
My gosh
Can’t possibly rec this enough.
Well the niners offense looks very chip like in this second half
Awful:
This is probably the worst football game I’ve ever watched. Makes me wish I still lived on the East Coast so I could be sleeping
That’s pathetic! I’m glad I was in bed!
Didn’t we have the highest point differential of all the week 1 games this weekend til tonight?
Do think SF fans will be bitching when their team doesn’t get moved up very far? 🙂
Lol. No clue. Rams have no pass attack….that was hard to watch.
Yup, NFL has to be embarrassed that was an opening week MNF game
Jeff Fischer= mediocre if not just bad. Cant believe he still has a HC job. Woof!
There have been reports all off season about him getting an extension too. Did he get it?(I wasn’t paying that close of attention). I would rather go through the pitfalls of a gamble with a HC(like CK) then hire Fischer. They are going to have to start a mini-series on AMC to show how this guy keeps a job…
If the Chippa got another job…
Normally ‘Hard Knocks’ doesn’t show you that much but man Fisher looked incompetent and a guy who should have been out of the league for a few years now.
He really looked like 2015 Chip Kelly last night. Literally no answers or adjustments being made while your team is getting whooped up and down the field.
Yeah, I don’t think he or Les Snead the GM are going to survive after this season. Both are on the last year of their contract. Kroenke kept Fisher only because of his experience moving a team to a new city. And one has to admit Jeff did a pretty good job of shepherding the move to LA. He’s likely going to have a tv gig next season.
Did he do a good job though? He basically came out last night and said they got their ass beat because they had to move 4 times in 7 months.
If you haven’t heard this yet, it’s gold.
http://deadsp.in/WFPW1vC
I missed the 9ers/Rams game. How did Chip Kelly win? Did he institute a whole new group of 6 plays or something?
he instituted winning
As part of the scheme, or more of a culture thing?
It’s really hard to describe. I literally don’t have any takeaways about his new offense. The Rams were so indescribably bad that… well, I really can’t describe it.
Their offense was even worse than their defense.
Is LA that bad, or did Chip, like Andy, wait to leave Phila before hiring a DC worth his salt?
Its week 1 so who knows. LA were beyond awful, one of the worst NFL performances i have ever seen, The sucktitude they showed on offence was mind blowing. 3/15 on 3rd down and 185 yards TOTAL offence
49ers were not much better frankly on the night but at least they executed in the redzone (4/4) and managed to put up 320 yards on 77 plays…. averaging under 4.2 yards per play, and under 5 ypa passing. So yeah hardly something to get excited about at this point.
Haha ya was awful having to hear Steve Young talking about Gabbert like he was the next coming just because the Rams d was so bad.
Last year we had a top defense before falling of a clip.
Great defensive front on the Rams. As good as Fletcher Cox is, Aaron Donald is even better. Have a little sympathy for the Rams players and coaches this year. They have already trained in three different “temporary” locations on the outskirts of LA. Now they’re settling into their season long home in Thousand Oaks near where most players have found homes. Things will stabilize now. The Rams have 8-8 talent similar to the Eagles. They will finish with a better record than SF but still not nearly as good as Arizona or Seattle.
i don’t know. I watched a lot more of that game than I should have last night. Their offense is basically Gurley, so teams will load up against that until they show they are able to do something else. Their secondary also got eaten up by Blaine Gabbert and Jeremy Kerley on a regular basis.
Plus, Jeff Fischer.
You can’t just keep saying it’s a great defensive front when it clearly isn’t.
They have talent but they do not have coaching.
Jeff Fisher shouldn’t be a head coach.
Yup, it was embarrassing
JJ was definitely worth his salt
The Browns did make a devistating mistake. Because of the bad snap safety and the Eagles TD resulting from the good field position on the ensuing free kick the game was out of reach for the Browns. That was a gift the Eagles shouldn’t expect against a better team.
How different would the Eagles field position have been if the Browns had punted from the shadow of their goalposts?
A 5 point lead and the ball on our own 27?
I wish Hard Knocks wasn’t just the preseason. I cannot believe they got shut out.
Also, I bet the Browns aren’t even disappointed RGIII is out. Just helps the tank. He isn’t the long-term solution anyway. Now they have a (little) excuse and the tank isn’t as obvious. I think they aren’t regretting Wentz b/c their plan was accumulate lots of assets (picks), be terrible, get the QB1 later (not 2016).
I cannot not imagine the pain the Browns fan base feels right now. Regardless of the whole passing on Wentz decision, they look like they will be very bad…but not as bad as the Jeff Fisher-led Rams.
Ya, the Rams may be the worst team I’ve ever can recall watching in a game. They did absolutely nothing right and made Gabbert look like a stud.
Ya, their goal had to be getting a QB they really like this coming draft. They had to know they would be awful, they would hope we would be awful, and even if they didn’t get a top pick, the Rams, Titans who could be in the top of the draft already have young QBs that they could package picks up to get.
Way too much hype already including the Browns ‘making a huge mistake’ on passing on Wentz.
It is a single freaking week against the worst team in the NFL and with RGIII out might win a single game this year.
So, yeah, let’s just trash the new QB! No hope at all. Nothing positive to see in his performance. A performance where he came out (in his 1st game) and diagnosed defenses, called protections, changed plays at the line, made throws, and never once looked confused or overwhelmed. But yeah, let’s just say it’s over-hyped! Some people can’t just ever be happy with a freaking win and a good start to the season!
Didn’t remotely say that and you are overreaction is what I was referring to.
Wentz did surprise me with what he did but to bury the Browns’ FO as being ‘idiots’ based on a single game is ridiculous.
They were leery of Wentz for several reasons including the injury risk.
I don’t think we here are over hyping him, but my experience in life is many things like this I have no control over and I can either be pessimistic or try to be optimistic about it, but the end result is the same (b/c I can’t control it etc.) so being optimistic just leads to a slightly happier life. So why not? I’m not going to be even more disappointed if something bad happens (like Wentz doesn’t work out). There will be plenty of time to be sad.
See – I take the opposite approach. If I set my expectations low enough I will usually be pleasantly surprised. I find it’s a really good way to look at things if you are an Eagles fan!
I’m more like this. I will be pleasantly thrilled if Wentz turns out to be our guy. But there is something about me and irrational optimism that doesn’t mix. On second thought, optimism is kind of rational I suppose for the guys that enjoy things more that way.
well I’m talking really about life events. Sometimes bad things happen. If your expectations are that bad things will happen, it just means you left some happiness/hope on the table.
Not even about setting expectations low. It is about people going manic/depressive here based on a single game.
I have lived in several other cities including SF, St Louis, and Boston and none of them have the degree of extremity week-in, week-out based upon a single NFL game’s outcome.
He was the #2 pick. Hype comes with the territory, and deservedly so.
Without overhyping Wentz’s performance, in fact, ignoring it completely, would the fact that their fragile starting QB predictably went to the IR and now their is a real possibility they lose every game this season not be proof enough that they shouldn’t have passed on drafting a QB?
I think they did the right thing. They aren’t good enough to develop a rookie QB at this point. Wentz on the Browns would probably turn out like every other QB they’ve drafted. They should continue to build and grab a QB next year or the year after in my opinion.
They shouldn’t have drafted a QB simply for the sake of drafting a QB especially with that high of a pick.
It just seems that the Browns have gotten piled on since yesterday with all kinds of hot-take reactions.
Rams are the worst team in the the NFL or you don’t watch football.
Off topic: color rush jerseys were announced for our Thursday night game against the Giants. It’s all black. Or the absence of color rush.
Yea not sure why the Eagles Color rush jersey is black with a little midnight green.
Yeah we already see black unis. i would have liked all green
I actually like Green on white the best
Its sharp but having something different once a year would be cool.
Personally I am tired of the midnight green. Bring back Kelly green!!!
I’d be cool with the midnight green if they brought back the silver pants. They were bad ass.
the problem is that the green jerseys are teal now, because Nike is terrible
Holy shit the skins are a disaster.
When your jerseys make the Jags color rush uniforms look good, that’s embarrassing.
Since the Cowboys play the Redskins next week at least one team will start the season with 0-2.
I hate to say it but I might have to root for the Cowboys in that game since the Redskins have the overall better team and are a bigger threat for the NFCE title.
I just threw up in my mouth at the thought of rooting for the girls…Gotta spin it, I’ll keep thinking.
Yes same here. But it would be great to see the division favourite in a 0-2 hole already!
But when Romo comes back, the Cowboys might be better, and it’s not like it’s going to take a ton of wins to win this crappy division.
Rooting for the Cowboys? Et tu, GermanEagles, et tu?
I don’t see how the Redskins are a better team than the Cowboys
I think they are a better team in almost every way. QB, WR, TE, D, ST. Can argue the OL is better and definitely their DL.
The Philadelphia Inquirer’s Zach Berman reports Zach Ertz (ribs) could miss an “extended period.”
trey burton in fantasy?
I was afraid this would happen. And to be honest it will not shock me if they put him on IR.
Reading the comments on the philly.com articles by the people that claim to be doctors, if what they are saying is true, he is probably done for the year.
You are a brave man.
Or Celek? Or DGB? Who picks up the snaps?
“Ug, that’s the most exciting thing to happen tonight.”
Has everyone heard this? Harlan’s call of the fan running onto the field last night was hysterical. You could really feel for a guy trying to breathe life into an incredibly boring game.
https://twitter.com/DeAngeloRB/status/775650065876676608
LOL!!!
Does anyone know if he can catch?
Pretty bummed I had to listen to Boomer Stiffpants and Steve 30kids on that call (and any other).
In the Eagles box score, Josh Huff is not listed, even though he was targeted on that pass that bounced off his hands. Nelson Agholor is listed as 4 catches on 5 targets. Did they count that pop-up reception as a target for Agholor?
(I was kind of hoping to see Agholor with 4 catches on 3 targets)
I believe that counts as a target for agholor. I believe you cannot have a catch without a target – and my proof is that if you look at the SF box score from last night, Blaine Gabbert has 1 catch on 1 target. I have seen a lot of football and I have never seen a QB really “target” themselves, but I guess that is how scorekeeping works. I wonder if a pass gets batted back at the QB and he knocks it down (as Gabbert should have) if that counts as a target and a drop.
Good inductive reasoning.
One of my favorite football plays of all time was Brad Johnson completing a TD pass to himself when he played for the Vikings.
https://youtu.be/-zqNG3tl7Aw
MITCHELL:
How screwed is Ertz?
ACV:
Have the Eagles ever had a player incur this kind of injury before? Granted in 1954 it may have just been listed as being a wuss, but still.
D3FB: Does this make Burton a guy who catches 5+ passes?
Burtons role will increase but it’s not a like for like replacement.
Burton is more of a Flex TE or H-back type. He’s 6’2 and probably only 240ish (Ertz isn’t a stud as a blocker but he’s at least 6’5 255) You’re not going to want him trying to block 6’6 270lbs DEs. You basically can’t line him up inline without announcing it’s a pass.
As far as his role, it kind of depends on what the coaches want to do. They could involve him more and basically use him as Jordan Reed lite. Other options include going more 11 personel on offense as DGB starts to settle in, and using Celek as the primary with Burton on passing downs.
Expectations wise, I think it will be alot of 3 catches 35 yard type stuff, and one week he’ll probably have 7 for 85 and 2 TDs.
Good stuff. Burton has shown he has good hands and athleticism but, yea, he’s small for a blocking TE. Can a guy his size be succesful chip-blocking a D end and then acting as a receiver?
Yea it’ll be things like that, and using him to get up on linebackers and into the flat on screens that would be the best use of his blocking.
Thanks. There’s no way we won’t miss Ertz, but Burton is so fast it’s exciting to think of him blowing past the lbs.
Fantasy Fools Gold then. Check.
In 1956, Chuck Bednarik displaced two ribs in the first half against the Washington NotYetRecognizedAsRacists. Just before the half, he folded a WAS receiver in half, put him in his armpit and smashed his shoulder into the tunnel wall.
My avatar is my comment. Concrete Charlie is the senior, Dawk is the junior.
Let’s see if we all laugh if Ertz won’t come back this year.
I’m not laughing.
Having had a displaced rib, it isn’t a huge deal, it just sounds really horrible. You certainly don’t want to ignore it as it’s potentially a dangerous thing having a bone just kind of floating around your chest cavity. And obviously playing a contact sport is out of he question. He’ll heal and return, unless it’s waaaaay worse than they’re saying.
EDIT: Also, I’m not Mitchell so maybe he has a different take on it.
So the big kicker with this is that it is a FIRST rib fracture which travels under the clavicle and is supported by said clavicle and a boat load of muscles from the shoulder girdle. The first rib is really, really, really really, really, really, really hard to damage. That being said, compared to other rib fractures and subluxations, a first rib fracture is rare with only 3 (that I could find) in the past 24 years however a subluxation is EXCEEDINGLY rare (in professional sports) So rare in fact that when I went to pull up some case studies, there was one, yes one from 1998. The same thing happened to a professional rugby player from Union(?). This stuff usually happens to people in car accidents, or people with stress fractures already to the area (but I guess when you think about it, Ertz fits into both categories and so do most NFL players, so why don’t we see more but I digress). So as far as timetable and treatment goes, this is managed just like any other rib fracture/dislocation with pain meds, rest and in the absence of neurological or vascular pathologies, NO SURGERY. Finally, to your initial question, “how screwed is Ertz?”, it all depends. Screwed because in the case study it took about 12 weeks for the player to be fully recovered but he did however, fully recover, As far as how soon he could play, I’m not sure but I would venture a guess that if we can withstand the pain after a month or two, he could possibly go. Also this was 18 years ago so there may be some new tech to speed up recovery.
The Rams were so fucking godawful last night… Welcome your new (old) team LA!!
My favorite stat of the night is LA now has 6 consecutive scoreless quarters, dating back to Christmas eve 1994.
That’s possibly one of the greatest stats of all time. I wonder how far Jeff Fischer can push that stat.
Terrelle Pryor top 10 wide out in the league!!
I thought Agholor was open on that 3rd and 9 to go, but that’s picking nits.
My bottom of the NFL power rankings:
32. LA Rams
31. Cleveland Browns
30. 49ers
29. Chicago Bears
Redskins?
They have to be in the conversation.
they aren’t a bottom 5 team
One can hope they continue to get pounded in that direction.
I cant wait to see how we do In our first division game
Did you watch them yesterday (at home) ?
They got their asses handed to them again and again. It was embarrassing.
Pitt is also a Superbowl contender. if we played them on Sunday instead of the Browns the score would have been similar.
And we play all 4 teams this year correct?
LOL Curry absolutely destroys his man.
Jesus mother of christ, pray for that man.
Essentially takes out the RT as well as the RG.
Like an unscripted stunt.
takes out the LT as well. Graham gets completely loose after the RT via Curry hits the LT.
Did they double team Allen? Dude’s a fullback, maybe slide the center to 91?
# Sacks vs Bears: 5.5
Over / under
push
Push means over?
push means the line hits on the money. Which is possible for sacks since you can get a 1/2 sack
edit: wait, I don’t know if you can tally 1/2 sacks total for a game, only players can share a sack. So it’s not possible to push a 5.5 sack line
An individual can, a team cannot.
good point. 5 then
So over or under then?! Lol
Does anyone know if Eagles can void Ertz’ recently signed contract due to injury?
Pretty sure that’s against the CBA unless they waive him with a settlement.
D3 here’s your reminder: Defense question for Tommy or D3 or anyone else – at 11:54 in the 2nd it looks like we had a two man front. was this just a nickel or something weirder?
I assume the play you are talking about is this?
https://twitter.com/fduffy3/status/775395857470484480
From his wording of “we had a two man front” I assumed we were on defense.
yeah it was us on D. video is here at 11:54 in the second quarter: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/09/carson_wentz_cleveland_browns.html
The comments by players on the Browns makes me question whether they actually play in the AFC North… so very different from Steelers and Ravens players. #culture -OR- are Browns post game interviews really interviews for their next team and next contract? #itsabusiness
Oh gotcha, that was because the Bengals are running an emory and henry formation.
Here’s some background:
http://chipwagon.typepad.com/eagles/2014/07/8-the-emory-and-henry-formation.html
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/10/6956009/bengals-emory-henry-andy-dalton-giovani-bernard
Is that an Eagles WR pushing forward toward a first down? What manner of witchcraft is this?
If so it’s a 2-4-5 nickel (Cleveland is a base 34). It’s effectively a 4-2-5, but Orchard splits out with Ertz because of the blitz they are bringing, if he lined up in a tighter alignment, either the ILB has to shift over to Ertz, the S has to come down (and since he’s cover cover 1 that’s not ideal) or you leave yourself exposed to Ertz crack blocking Orchard and being comically outflanked if it was a run play.
Does anyone know if Eagles can release and sign, ie ‘vandervelde’ Goode since he signed his 1 yr contract before game 1?!
From what I understand, since he was on the roster for game 1, his salary is guaranteed. What would be the appeal to releasing him?
Making room for another guy, eg a third TE?
They would probably play with an offensive roster spot. Like one of the WRs or OL. You often have 3 LBs playing; you don’t want to have just one backup.
Two guys may have to go. With McKelvin dinged we probably need to promote CJ Smith.
Where is that damned B sample?
F@@@& knows?!
What B sample?
They lost it.
Maybe. Or maybe Lane followed Vinny Chase’s example.
They can they’ll just be double charged for his services. I’m assuming he signed for vet minimum so that would be 760K. But he is eligible for the vet minimum benefit so it only counts 600k against the cap. If he were given the Vandervelde treatment it would be 47.5K a week additionally.
Although it sounds like he had interest from other teams, so they may choose to not yank him around lest he say screw it and sign elsewhere.
And if he already has a fully guaranteed Eagles salary, why not sign with another team and see if you stick there?
The Rams/Niners box score is depressing. The 2 QB’s combined for 300 yards on 70 attempts.
Feel for RGIII- he just does not have the body or the skill set to be a starting NFL QB. So hyped and so successful his first year. Really have to appreciate the great QB’s who do it year after year. On a related note, I wonder why the Rams drafted Goff first. He was definitely the “safer” pick out of college but the body type screams “Sam Bradford, injury waiting to happen”. I’ll take a Roelisberger/Wentz type body any day. Romo can’t stay on the field either.
There have been tons of big bodied QB’s who have failed miserably – way more than have left a mark, and Goff had marginally better numbers against better competition. Bradford is 6’4/225. Don’t think size is a valid indicator of durability.
why ya gotta kill the buzz man, cmon lol. It probably helps a bit though but knees are knees. Johnny football got tossed around too when he played, these tiny guys cant take much. Tavon Austin last night, guy just gets ripped down with one hand half the time
but Bradford looks skinny. his arms are skinny his legs are skinny. he looks like an injury waiting to happen
If I can just slip into my psychologist’s hat…I know it’s here somewhere…ah, got it. The patient suffers from a clear case of Retrospective Bias, wherein he/she explains the present by developing an emotionally-charged, fabricated version of the past. It is an affliction found among many historians as well as a whole host of non-scholars. As evidence, I give you a guy named Brady. He and Bradford have similar builds, but Brady actually seems to be a bit longer and skinnier. Has anyone ever remarked about the staggering odds that a QB with a frame like Brady’s could actually achieve prolonged success in such a violent game? Nay. Of course, if he played for a crappy team with a bad OL he would have been regularly abused, probably often injured and we all would agree that he doesn’t have an ideal build.
I was one of those guys who wanted Goff based on his experience and pedigree. Wentz didn’t play big time and he didn’t even play much. Remember, too, Carson was the guy who got injured and missed playing time. It will take a bunch of years before we’ll be able to evaluate their respective careers. At that point, let’s hope we’re raising a glass to Wentz’ success and to PPK being an idiot.
Had to look up who the Browns QB is now. Josh McCown. I feel like any team that employs Josh McCown is expecting to need him at some point in the season.
I second, and extend, the props to Chase Daniel. All of the guys yelling about how much of a waste it was to sign Daniel – notice every time Wentz was shown on the sideline during the game in-between possessions, Daniel was right there with a tablet coaching him. THAT is well worth the money the Eagles are paying him.
Is it? Is Chase Daniel the best quarterback coach in the NFL? Because if they brought him here to coach Wentz, he’s making more than any quarterback coach. He also making more than any offensive coordinators and making more than most NFL head coaches. So if he is here to coach, it’s objectively not money well spent. That’s just math.
The best coaches in the nfl is underpaid based on what they bring to a team in terms of wins
I take it you were one of the guys yelling : ) How do you know the Eagles could have hired the best QB coach in the NFL even if they wanted to? And the “best QB coach in the NFL” may not be the best QB coach for Doug’s system. Based on that premise, I’d say it is highly likely that, in fact, Doug does think that, aside from himself, Chase may be the best QB coach for his system. And how much Daniel is paid is peanuts compared to the value he brings in supporting Wentz, who is here on the cheap cap-wise under his rookie deal. I’d take the dual-value that Daniel provides (excellent on-field coach/tutor + backup QB) versus the mediocre field player they might have gotten with that cap space.
Props to Daniel for doing his job. As Cafone says below, he is being paid very well, so he better be good at the task.
Oh and congratulations in advance to LA, on your inaugural beatdown at the hands of the Seahawks next week. What a way to open a stadium.
they are playing at USC’s stadium this season, probably next as well
If they play like this, taxpayers might pass a referendum to cancel the check.
I didn’t think the taxpayers were paying for anything. There’s not really an appetite for NFL football down here. Chargers fans are a joke, too. People only care about USC
Really? A new stadium without government funding is welcome, and surprising.
Yep but no public money needed also shows just how much money they print
i rewatched the game yesterday and boy it was close. at 13-10 it could have easily been 21-10 browns winning if rg3 could throw with any amount of accuracy. the browns marched down the field a couple of times but were ruined by rg3 throwing the int, which was not a great defensive play it was an awful throw. and then he over threw the td pass too, guy was open. Wentz had a great first drive then just stalled for a long while.
the main thing I came away with is wentz will never make 16 games, the guy got rocked quite a few times bad. wide open for big hits on the body. he needs to protect himself better. hey first game, they have some growing and learning to do and that’s good.
funny how I watch it totally different from how it probably went. All gravy for Eagles and Browns stunk when I ponder back. Meanwhile much more what you said, good stuff. Thought the shots he took were just normal football plays that will happen during games, you just hope for the best. Tough to avoid everything
there were a few times I winced thinking oh crap he is getting destroyed out there. he did get hit pretty hard and driven into the ground as well. he has a lot of target to hit, big guy, needs some meat on his bones I think. and we did not kill the browns really, RG3 killed them with some awful passes to open guys.
if he hit the guy on the crosser we got the tip and INT that was a score. also the over thrown td was an easy score for Mcgown probably.
ya good point, I thought RG was playing really poorly also. Or was it our vaunted D line lol. He actually looked disinterested later in the game I thought, almost like he doesnt even want to be out there. Of course, basing that on his expressions but just didnt ever look happy. Of course, things were not going his way so kind of understandable but the game was still in reach.
its true he is very unlikable because he doesn’t ever look like he is enjoying it. probably because he isn’t though.
It is fascinating what a different take you have from the narrative that we smashed them and are clearly in a different class. It just goes to show that we all see things in different ways. One reason I am not a fan of the “eye test.”
did you rewatch the game?
I think the excitement watching it live skews what you see… watching the second time I was less impressed by the defense and its more obvious rg3 is no good at all. and less impressed by the offense aside from a few great plays. but its the first game and we won, so that’s a great start
Most teams are sloppy first week (or a couple first weeks) of the season.
No, but I remember some pretty unimpressive stretches for sure.
Classic lesson for athletic rookie qbs — getting hit in the pros is very different than in college. Likely, more so than the Missouri Valley Conference.
Re watched game, don’t know what you expected. In an imaginary scenario in which the Browns don’t miss opportunities, the Browns are a good team. No body thinks we wouldn’t have our hands full with a good team.
1st drive:
1 pass, dropped at LOS with man all over him to make the tackle if caught. 3 n out
2nd drive: 2 passes, both near LoS and completed for 2 yards total. 3 n out
3rd drive:
pass for 6 yards complete.
pass for firs down dropped. Drive killer, but first down doesn’t mean points are coming. Fake punt, fail, 4 n out. (Eagles then fail to capitalize on awesome field position, settle for 3)
4th drive:
first down pass for 11 yards.
gimmick play with 3 linemen-dropped pass for about 13 yards
screen for 16 yards.
Amazing catch by Pryor for 44 yards
1st bad pass, Incomplete shot at endzone but doesn’t matter because…
Jenkins gets called for bs PI at the 2 and Curry got tackled but not called, setting up TD run
5th drive:
13 yard completion
12 yard completion
20 yard scramble
Interception, tipped by Jordan Hicks to put it way behind WR who foolishly tipped it up for easy pick. Not on Griffin, nice play by D (Hicks)
6th drive, small ball before half-time. Eagles in prevent. Browns take easy first downs to burn rest of clock.
7th drive:
58 yard completion, first terrible throw, way underthrown and into triple coverage, but it worked out for the Browns because our guys are idiots.
incomplete back shoulder fade, not a gimme throw.
2nd bad throw of the game, missed open man in end zone
FG
8th drive: The point we could have been getting killed in by, you suggest
Safety
Eagles take their 2 gimme points
Then drive 74 yards for 7 more (people pretend the Eagles were gifted this drive, this drive was literally receiving a punt on the 26 yard line, every yard after was earned)
Game was basically over after that, the 12 point deficit made the wheels come off.
All their points came off of 1 sweet catch combo’d with a bunk PI/missed hold, and a ridiculous 58 yard throw. That’s it. I can see a case for it being 14-13 Browns before the safety, but you are really pushing it beyond that. If you look at it the overall picture, the 3 drives they moved the ball much was the exception. Almost every other drive they got blanked. If you want to pretend those 3 drives were an accurate portrayal of reality, and we just lucked out every other drive, that’s your right. But arguing might-haves or should-haves is asinine. The Browns were beaten handily in the land of what actually happened.
ok fine you beat my pessimism with your optimism.
so 1-15? haha
Come now, 3-13!
im updating my prediction each week. so far Im now at 1-15. we’ll see how Monday night goes.
we signed up aaron murray to the squaad
In effect, Zac Dysert beat him out in Arizona for 3rd QB spot (they were both on the practice squad).
surprised we didn’t give him $12m to be a player coach.
I respekt his coaching so far
when you put it that way, ouch. What ever happened to the Saints draft pick, Grayson, did he end up back on their practice squad?
That’s who I was rooting for.
No.
Yeah, he’s on their practice squad now.
This is a fun article to revisit:
http://www.phillyvoice.com/wentz-he-came-roseman-regresses-ridiculous-trade/
Oh Angelo….
Funny thing is that he’s still on the air. Like most Philly sports talk hosts, he’s lazy, doesn’t really know sports the way we do, and is full of ish.
This is also the same guy that said Ben Simmons was going to be a bust.
Pure. Quality.
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/775753792147099648/pu/vid/320×180/c3gfkxjy1VLkeSdv.mp4
Suck on that Dak and dallas…
Dak Dallas!
Eagles copywriter Jeff McLane on PST saying Wentz held the ball too long. Thoughts?
Not disagreeing with him since he did on a few plays but in general? I don’t think so.
Hmmm Pederson said:
Obviously watching the tape this morning, for him to have that kind of poise in the pocket for his first start, and really only having four series throughout training camp, you just can’t teach that. And the patience he had to let receivers come open. I remember the one third down play, he hit Jordan on a backside dagger route. He just hung in there, hung in there. Those throws are things you see from a more veteran type quarterback, where younger guys tend to want to scramble. The poise was tremendous.
ya right, that part and a young QB will need to work up to his timing to a degree. Bit of both there Im sure
With a rusher tight behind him ?? Was thst Peters saving Eagles again with that sweet blocking? Thats great highlight
Maybe. I couldn’t see it properly from block 236 at the Linc. However I can tell you I didn’t hold my beer too long.
Frau und kinder up there in the 236 with you in the 215 ?
No they stayed at the Kimpton. 😉
yeah that’s why he got crushed so many times
Agree. But it’s his first game. We’ll see how that works as the season progresses. He’s also a rookie, there’s not a problem he can’t fix…
Exactly. Typical rookie move, but he’ll work out of it.
If that is the most damning thing a negadelphian writer can find, he did all right.
Funny how some see Wentz as holding on to the ball too long while his opponent calls him very patient.
“I think he did a really good job. He was more advanced than I expected him to be. He is a good quarterback. He stands in the pocket, he is able to make all the throws, very patient, and does not take off running all the time. He looks down the field and picks his receiver that he wants to throw to.”
—Browns cornerback Joe Haden on Carson Wentz.
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/09/12/eagles-browns-day-after-wentz-is-special/#YxIFXOGeZl4jF0rB.99
Wow, Saints released C.J. Spiller. Would be good insurance to fill Sproles role if he got hurt.
Rand Getlin @Rand_Getlin 1m1 minute ago
I’m told the #Saints have released RB CJ Spiller. He’s fully healthy now. Wont be long before someone picks him up.
1 retweet 0 likes
You mean two ex Saints make one sinner?!
Is Smallwood still practice squad eligible? Spiller has the same issues as Mathews, so I don’t know if I would cut a younger guy for Spiller.
Wrong demotion.
He’s 29. I’d rather bring Byron Marshall up , Barner and Marshall can fill that role.
Ross Tucker:
After they guaranteed his salary by having him on Week One roster? Nobody blows $ like the Saints. Nobody.
ATG posted a video of the fan on the field last night.
Here’s how NFL players *used* to deal with fans on their gridiron:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdP2G7UtS9I
lol, ouch. Dspin interviewed the kid because he had his phone number on his chest. He was only 16, wasnt drunk and just always wanted to do it. Said he was running away from the players because he didnt want to get hit, not dumb on his part
Ordinarily, I’d call that kid a narcissistic ass -no one wants to watch him get his jollies. Considering the game, I think most people preferred to see him.
That never gets old.
What does Shah8 think?
He thought it was a nice first start. Not special or anything, but a good first start. Didn’t proclaim him to be missing some critical factor that will doom his career, which is about as high praise as you can get from Shah.
Wow that’s high praise
Where has that Joe Webb loving son of a gun been?
Got this from NFL site, which.by the way have the power rankings with the Eagles up 3 spots to 23 and the Bears holding steady at 30, but power tankings are like assholes. Anyway this is interesting
Historical note: While Browns at Eagles in 2016 turned up gnarly, Browns at Eagles in 1950 was one of the most significant games in NFL history. Paul Brown’s franchise won four AAFC titles prior to the NFL assimilating it as part of its membership. In his infinite wisdom, Commissioner Bert Bell decided to schedule this upstart squad against the two-time league champion Philadelphia Eagles in a special Saturday opener — kind of a 1950s “kickoff game” — to increase interest in what was then America’s fourth-most popular sport. It was no contest. As in, Philadelphia’s vaunted defense could do nothing to contest Otto Graham and the innovative Cleveland offense. Browns 35, Eagles 10.
Shame the league offices aren’t still in Merion where they belong.
http://www.chicagobears.com/team/depth-chart.html
Worried about our secondary, especially with that one guy out. McKelvin?
Does anyone else here watch Real Sports?
all MMA fans should answer “no” because that stuff is very fake.
LOL, I meant the HBO show.
I’m aware! And Real Sports is good upon occasion.
Seen this ? Pretty Real and really impressive
https://youtu.be/MWKPjSirbcU
Lol. You ever been on the Matt or in the ring?
As a wrestler. And not the scripted kind.
Who’s Matt?
Steve Orson, Chief Intel Officer, PATH NY/NJ
…
Ie
SO,CIO PATH
that Matt
New thread.