Hammer Drops on LJ
Posted: October 11th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 191 Comments »The news we feared finally came down today.
Eagles' Lane Johnson suspended 10 games, beginning immediately. https://t.co/DHwlwyhbVL
— Tim McManus (@Tim_McManus) October 11, 2016
In a word, ugh.
The Eagles O-line has played very well this year. Johnson has been a big part of that. He’s been good in pass pro and very good as a run blocker. Losing him will hurt and there is no way around that.
The plan this summer was to shift Allen Barbre from LG to RT and put either Isaac Seumalo or Stefen Wisniewski at LG. Barbre has played so well at LG that the coaches have decided to scrap that plan. They want to leave Barbre where he is. That leaves RT open. For now, the job will go to rookie Halapoulivaati Vaitai.
There is no easy solution here. In terms of individual play, the smart move would be to move Barbre and insert Wiz. But the OL is really a unit. Moving a couple of pieces around would throw off the continuity of the whole group. By putting Big V over at RT, the Eagles know the weak spot and it is then up to the players and coaches to help him out.
Reports on Vaitai were not good this spring. He really struggled. Things weren’t a whole lot better at Training Camp. Vaitai had a big adjustment to make. He played LT in 2015 at TCU and was almost exclusively in a 2-point stance. The Eagles played him at RT and had Vaitai in up and down stances. They had him firing off the ball on some run plays and then dropping back in pass pro. This wasn’t the simple offense that TCU ran.
While Vaitai was slow to adjust, he did get better. I recently re-watched part of the preseason finale. He looked a lot better in that game than he did just a few weeks before in the preseason. The more snaps he got and the more coaching he got helped Vaitai to make serious strides. He has gone up against the starting DL in practice since then and the coaches say he’s continued to improve.
You could dismiss that as coachspeak, but their actions do speak volumes. They wouldn’t go with him for the heck of it. The coaches have seen enough from Vaitai to make them think he can succeed. Doug Pederson had a rookie starting at C last year for the Chiefs so he’s dealt with young guys up front before. He isn’t afraid to take a chance on a talented rookie.
And Pederson is taking a chance here. Carson Wentz doesn’t play to this level if he’s behind the 2012 Eagles O-line. He’s running for his life and making risky throws. This year the OL has been a big part of Wentz’s success. The good news is that Pederson is the kind of coach who can adjust to a rookie OL. Pederson tries to run a balanced offense. He is willing to mix in different players and formations. He can use TEs and RBs to help Vaitai. Heck, he will line Matt Tobin up as a 3rd TE and have him play over there at times. There won’t be any Winston Justice vs the Giants in 2007 moments.
While this can work, it also might fail. If Vaitai really struggles, the team can consider trying Matt Tobin at RT or they can just make the double switch with Barbre going to RT and Wiz taking over at LG.
Experimenting with the RT spot while your prized rookie QB adjusts to the NFL is not ideal, to say the least. Wentz might help the situation. He does a lot of pre-snap reads and adjustments. That could help ease the pressure on Vaitai. Wentz also has excellent mobility. Just because Vaitai gets beat doesn’t mean the rusher will get a sack or even a hit on the QB.
What about Johnson?
Lane Johnson will lose 10 games worth of $675K salary and $10M signing bonus. Remaining $25M no longer guar, but 2017 ($10M) virtually guar.
— Jeff McLane (@Jeff_McLane) October 11, 2016
Lane Johnson can be back on roster 12/19 (Monday). Eagles play 3 days later vs. #NYGiants (Week 16).
— Adam Caplan (@caplannfl) October 11, 2016
Pederson has made the right call at just about every critical moment in his short tenure as Eagles coach. This is arguably his biggest test yet. If he can make this work, that will be huge for the team’s outlook on the rest of the season. The Eagles lack elite playmakers so all the parts of the offense have to work together for the group to have success. Vaitai doesn’t have to be as good as Johnson, but he does need to do his part.
Keep your fingers crossed that Jeff Stoutland and Pederson made the right call on this.
*****
Now for some good OL news. Watch Jason Peters do his thing…
Jason Peters display of overwhelming power to wash down. Make a hole. #FlyEaglesFly pic.twitter.com/PiEjDXLUnz
— Brandon Thorn (@VeteranScout) October 11, 2016
Not a great run by Mathews to be sure.
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[…] Tommy Lawlor The news we feared finally came down today. Eagles’ Lane Johnson suspended 10 games, […]
I am going to take a positive outlook here. Remember Jon Runyan?? He was great right? He used to say that only reason the backups did not shine was because they just needed a chance to play and show how good they were. He would say that they just needed that opportunity. Of course it was up to people like Big Jon Runyan to make sure the backup never got that chance right? Well, LJ has put himself in this situation and now someone gets their big shot. Who’s to say that Big V will not be more than capable of replacing LJ for the next few months? As Tommy mentioned he does not have to play at an all pro level he just has to do his job . I also have some faith that the coaches would not just make this decision w/out believing it can work. Fingers crossed here, but lets hope for the best.
I’m going with desperate optimism, too. If it works out, that’s one more starter out of your ’16 draft class. Fingers crossed…
I just literally laughed out loud watching the Jason Peters block clip…then I watched it 10 more times trying to figure out just what the hell Mathews was doing.
I think maybe Ertz tackled him?
Ertz with a pretty lame block there, don’t think it was Mathews’ fault.
So it wasnt Mathew’s fault that he ran right into the blockers instead of the giant hole?
Actually, forget what I said. I was focusing on the situation to the left for some reason. Don’t know why he didn’t run to daylight.
I think that was celek its #87
From what I’ve seen it’s mostly Celek’s fault. Celek didn’t seal his guy off so Mathews made a cut to the left. I’m guessing Mathews was thinking the guy on Celek was going to plug up the gaping hole in the middle.
also a nice choke-slam by Barbre as he’s surfing the wave of bodies in front of Peters. At least the refs missed that one.
Wow. Lane lost $11 million dollars this year because of this.
That is not a happy domestic conversation.
Hi honey, guess what?…
Hello IRS. Can i have please have back the 5.5million in taxes i paid
Sorry but, every time I read LJ in a conversation in reference to the Eagles, I’m reminded of the agonizing LJ Smith. Somehow I need to get over this.
There is no “getting over” LJ Smith. That pass dropping / fumbling bum being drafted ahead of Jason Witten never goes away. It’ll still be a sore subject when Witten goes in the HOF.
He had 5 career fumbles. He had a few issues, but fumbling wasn’t one of them.
LJ was a good player before he stopped being flavour of the month. I remember how earlier in his career Andy and Brad Childress would be creative with his skillset, it seems that around late 2005/early 2006 things changed for whatever reason
Is it weird to anyone else that they’ve been using Matt Tobin as the blocking 3rd TE instead, of you know, the guy they’re putting at RT?
No, we’ve seen him at RT.
Agree. He sucks on the right side and isn’t embarrassing on the left.
Let me clarify: why isn’t Vaitai the blocking TE, if he’s good enough to start at RT? Just seems incongruent.
I would think because Big V is a rookie and they probably just want him to focus on learning the tackle position and not worry about learning TE packages too.
That’s because Vaitai isn’t active on game days. Tobin only seems to play well on the left side of the line for whatever reason. From what I’ve read on Vaitai, he also is a better pass blocker than run blocker. So it makes sense to have Tobin out there since they mostly run or throw short screen passes when using our 3 TE sets.
Tobin is massively one sided. He’s solid on the left and not very good on the right.
You can get away with it if he lines up for 8 snaps as a TE on the right side because 1. Size advantage 2. 8 < 65
Cool, Lane Johnson gets suspended for taking an approved substance. Sounds great. Thanks NFL. Now the next time something happens he’s out for a year.
What is kind of baffling about this is that someone like Leveon Bell can tage illegal substances multiple times while on the watch list, and keep getting his suspensions reduced. Again this year is was reduced to 3 games. Why? What was his excuse, he accidentally smoked some pot that the NFLPA had approved? I don’t think so. And then, with Lane and the whole app thing, nothing comes of it, ten games, bang.. I think we have to assume that that was all just a poor excuse they made up, and that Lane really did try to gain an advantage by taking something performance enhancing that is illegal. But with the arbitrary and unpredictable way the NFL is enforcing its rules in this area, you cant really feel too certain that he didn’t just get screwed where others have gotten a pass.
Goodell needs to be replaced. He is screwing up the league.
This can’t be stated enough.
I don’t know if you’ve heard the latest policy, but teams can no longer post game gifs during the game. Teams. The one who’s playing. They can only retweet if it comes from the league itself.
you hear about nfl ratings being bad?
This was in the CBA, not from Goodell
Exactly. The union, elected and supported by the players, approved the CBA of their own free will. If they do not like the rules, then next time fight harder, stay unified and make the NFL give ground. It was Lane’s 2nd offense which is known as a 10 game suspension. It is very clear on that front.
Lane Johnson wasn’t in union.
To act like sports unions aren’t inherently flawed is a joke.
Huh? Lane is not part of the player’s union represented by the NFLPA? I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Whoever said sports unions are not flawed? I never said that.
The point is Lane is responsible for what goes into his body and he should not have relied on an app alone before taking supplements. Especially when he had already been caught once and knew he would be facing a potential 10 game suspension if caught again.
He should have known, since the NFLPA tells the players constantly and offers services to have supplements tested for them, that supplements contain unknown ingredients and thus the player could be taking something that puts them in jeopardy of violating the PED policy.
Basically, before you take any supplement, make absolutely sure. If not sure or if it is not possible to make sure, then do not take it. Period.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2016/8/13/12466438/nflpa-lane-johnson-eagles-comments-suspension-drugs-supplement-list-philadelphia
Lane wasn’t in the union when the CBA was negotiated.
If he had consumed tainted milk, he would have also been liable. Should he have every container of milk sent off and tested?
If the league and union are going to have this by all means take it but it’s all on you policy on supplements, and here’s a shitty app that makes you think it’s cool, it’s bullshit for the players.
I did not realize Lane was not in the union at the time the CBA was agreed to – had no idea a player could play without being in the union.
However, I assume Lane is in the union now and was in the union at the time he took this supplement and thus should have been fully aware of their repeated instructions to players on supplements and the program they offer to have them tested etc.
If Lane thinks it is bs, then he should make absolutely sure the union stands up against the NFL during the next CBA negotiation and does not back down. But as soon as he agreed to play in the NFL and take the Eagles money, he agreed to work under the CBA rules in place.
He is a repeat offender who got caught and did not do his homework on what he was taking. That is his responsibility and trying to pass the blame onto others is not constructive.
Take the hit and make absolutely positively sure from now on whatever you’re taking is ok or, if there is any uncertainty, do not take it. Simple as that. It is well known most players take some type of supplements and most players seem capable of staying clear of violations fine.
I think he meant Lane wasn’t in the league and therefore not in the union.
I couldn’t agree more. The way it’s setup is BS. Plus, they change the list often. Ritalin is banned (LJ gets suspended), but oh look two years later it’s not banned anymore.
I’d be interested to know how they come up with the list, and what (if any) science is used to back up their policy.
Levon Bell violated the substance abuse policy.
Not PEDs policy.
Rules, by agreement of the NFL and NFLPA, are totally different on punishment.
Thanks, I hadn’t realized these were two separate rules. Makes sense when you stop to think.
The NFL is ridiculous for how it policies non performance enhancing drug use.
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I respect the NBA the most for their drug policy. To appease the “Optics”, Marijuanna is also illegal in the NBA, but the NBA DOESNT actually WANT to catch its players and suspend them for pot which is ridiculous, so they do the minimal when it comes gotto marijuana testing, the test guys once a year, and playërs often know ahead of time.., that way they can still say they are against Marijuana, but they dont actually want to catch or suspend playërs for using it unless they have to,, if an NBA player fails a marijuana test, he is practically asking for it
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If the NFL is going to continue testing playërs for recreational drugs like Pot, there is no way that they should be testing playërs as often as they give random PED tests., NFL player should be tested once a year for Pot, and if you can’t pass that, then you are dumb enough to where you deserve to get suspended for Somethng so ridiculous,…. pot ISNT endangering the athletes, it’s not providing any performamce advantages, so there is no reason why they should ne making as big of a deal as they do about Marijuana use… If anything, if a player can substitute pain pills which narcotics by using Marijuana to manage injuries, EVERY person working in the NFL, and every single Fan should encourage that because of how much more dangerous and detrimental pain pills use is to a playërs health,,
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But it’s all a crock of shit…. When Pill companies donate tens of millions of dollars to fight against the legalization of pot, that’s all you need to know about how screwed up this country is, and how no one really has the players best interest in mind…. Any time we can use pot to get a person to stop using pain pills, we should be encouraging that to the fullest,,, of course, pharmaceutical companies don’t even want to cure patience, they are more interested in helping Patiemce maintain, so they can keep them alive, and using their pills
The CBA / NFL is pretty clear about this. Lane is an idiot for messing around with supplements.
If he’d like to sue the NFLPA to get his money back because their verification system has a flaw that cost him money, he can have at it.
He said he is suing the company who produced his supplement.
Good for him if he is. I hope he had an unopened bottle of their product to use against them in court.
Good luck with that. The companies are following what is required by law. The Congress is responsible for the requirements and the FDA in enforcing them.
The FDA doesn’t strictly regulate the supplement industry. Supplements are not drugs. The only rules are:
Manufacturers and distributors of dietary supplements and dietary ingredients are prohibited from marketing products that are adulterated or misbranded. That means that these **firms** are responsible for evaluating the safety and labeling of their products before marketing to ensure that they meet all the requirements of DSHEA and FDA regulations.
FDA is responsible for taking action against any adulterated or misbranded dietary supplement product after it reaches the market.
So it’s really pretty much a free-for-all since it’s basically self-policing.
Agreed. The narrative Lane is a victim is false. He willingly took this supplement and ignored options to check it out more. The policy is crystal clear that he is responsible for everything that goes into his body. Every player should know by now that supplement ingredients are not required to be fully disclosed and thus further testing is necessary before one takes anything. Lane should have taken advantage of the union’s programs to have the supplement tested instead of just relying on the app. Hopefully, now that he has been caught twice, he finally learns the lesson and will not let down his teammates & the team again.
I wonder how many other players feel themselves to be in a precarious situation because they used the same app?
nflpa offers free testing of any supplement. get your supplements tested
It’s more so the supplement company’s fault than the NFLs app..
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If a supplement is tainted with an extra ingrediants that isn’t supposed to be part of the supplements recipe, than the NFL App isn’t going to help you when there is something in the supplement that isn’t supposed to be there regardless.
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I hope we eventually see one athlete test his supplements before taking it and finding traces of Ingrediants that aren’t supposed to be in there so they can sue the balls off the supplement company
If this shit happens again I hope he jumps off a bridge.
our very own josh gordon
Actually, next time I believe he is out for two years. Even better.
“This wasn’t the simple offense that TCU ran.”
F-ing spreads and options are the ruination of football. I hope the NFL goes to a minor league soon where they can get more guys trained on how to play real football prior to starting their true pro careers.
Wing-T and Veer option really prepared guys for the NFL.
And don’t forget the triple option with a full house backfield.
As I stated in the previous thread, but our mindset should be to view LJ’s suspension as our only long-term injury of the season so far – plus he didn’t land on season-ending IR!
Provided the rest of the team can stay healthy – big IF though and *touching wood – the Eagles are still in a prime situation to control the NFC East.
Go birds!
With the bonus that we recoup his cap hit
Our Offense is completely healthy so if we can’t overcome the loss of one starter on offense, then we aren’t as good as we thought anyway.
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Bêtween coaching Playërs up, and scheming ways to help Vaitai, I think/hope the coaches have what it takes to overcome the loss of one starting OL, especially when half the NFL is already playing with at least one Backup on the OL
If Mathews makes the cut and takes the massive hole that Peters and the TE (is that Celek? Too blurry to tell for sure.) open up at 0.3 in the play above, he get a huge run. But instead, he hits said TE and the DET guy and he falls just past the LOS. I think we’re seeing here why his touches are going down while Sproles and the rest of the crew are getting more and more.
I was somewhat apprehensive until you suggested moving Tobin to RT. We’ve seen him there. I’d rather put Sproles at RT. Playing the fifth round rookie sounds just fine! See: Herremans.
We can’t afford getting called for that many chop blocks…
Herremans had a damn good year at RT.
Eagles drop to #2 in DVOA. Minny moved up to #1. The site has our special teams ranked only average, which is the difference. Sleeves is playing better than he has previously in almost every statistical category.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2016/week-5-dvoa-ratings
ironically sleeves has no run game, no o line and his no. 1 receiver was out last week, meaning he’s throwing to guys i’ve never heard of
Dare one say that Bradford is “making the players around him better”? 😉
But his last 7 games though…
With a defense like that he can afford no to play so scared. Not to mention I think we all sort of expected SS to continue to show the progress he was showing last year.
I am more than happy for him. Plenty happy with Wentz.
So I just picked up Kaepernick in my fantasy league to stash on the bottom of my roster. I’ve always wondered what the past-future-Kaep-Kelly union would bring. I’m of the mindset that Kelly’s offense only has a real chance of working with a running QB like Kaep. It could really work or completely crash and burn because of Kaep’s other issues. Should be entertaining either way.
Anyways, I can’t wait to see what our alternate reality could’ve held in store.
Kelly’s offense needs QB’s to make accurate throws and fast decisions, neither of which Kaep is good at. That doesn’t even factor in his baseball pitcher, Tebow-esque throw windup handicap that he has. The only way they’ll have success is to have Kaep as an extra running back that rarely throws, and that will last until he inevitably gets injured.
2012 Kaepernick may have been good in Kelly’s 2013 offense. But 2016 Kaep in 2016 Kelly’s offense not so much.
Last year Kaepernick was the ONLY QB who performed worse than BLAINE Gabbert… gabbert has similar mobility as Kaep, yet that didn’t help make Gabbert a good QB in chips system, it’s going to take a lot more than a few zone reads to turn Kaep into a COMPETANT QB, I’d cut him if I were you
So much Kaep hate! I’m just taking a flier on him. But he was really successful at some point. So I guess I’m seriously asking why was he successful, and could that map onto Kelly’s offense? Right now I am just thinking that it’ll be cool to finally see Kelly in the NFL with a QB who’s more a threat with his legs than anything else.
If that is true, his legs are his greatest asset, kap will eventually get his bell rung (or worse).
Kaep hate? I’d have to give a shit about Kaep to “Hate him”…
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It’s been years since he was an effective QB, and his development seemed to stagnant years ago… Keep him, cut him, start him, doesn’t make a difference to me
Just curious who you dropped?
Doug Baldwin. I have good WRs with D. Thomas, TY Hilton, Allen Robinson, and Jeffrey. But QB has been tough for me this year. I have Andy Dalton who I’m hoping rebounds this season (though probably not this week vs. the Pats). I’m hoping to pick up Stafford on waivers this week in exchange for Manning. And I just stashed Kaep. I’ll probably get rid of one of these QBs in the next few weeks depending on how it all plays out.
Would of suggested a trade personally. What other QBs on waiver?
My PTSD is kicking in again…
What do people think about going after Desean in 2017 free agency? I am hugely divided on the issue, and i guess $$ and years of commitment will be a big part of the decision making in the end.
I loved DeSean as a WR with the Eagles, so many magic moments that defined that period of the Eagles and he is still a genuine deep threat which as a team we lack. There will be slim pickings in free agency (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/wide-receiver/) and this Eagles WR group needs a free agent and draft picks to try and build up the weapons around Wentz.
At the same time DeSean can be a big distraction to a pretty ‘clean’ locker room, is getting older and when he losses a step will stop being a useful player and he could end up costing much more than you would want… But in the end my heart says stuff it, sign him to a 3 year 18-20mil deal where you can get out after 1 year having paid $7-8mil in Y1 and go for it…
Even without his speed he has great hands
his hands are underrated for sure.
And he is great at tracking and finding the ball in the air. Something few WR’s are really great at and makes a huge difference between being a speed WR and being a genuine deep threat.
I think he gets paid more than he is worth. Not in. Would much rather find the next Marvin Jones.
I wanted marvin Jones.
I have no interest in bringing Desean back, we need young WR talent that can grow with our young QB for years to come.
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Even if we assume Agholar will never grow into a quality starter, im very much excited about a future with Jordan and DGB starting and growing with Wentz, and it wouldn’t make much sense to sigń Desean to be a #3 WR..
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I want to keep developing Jordan, DGB, Nelson and Huff, while adding another young WR talent via the draft, in hopes that over the course of their rookie deals, at least 3 Of the young WRs Develope enough to become Longterm Eagles who we keep past their rookie contracts… jordan and Huff will be going into year 4 next year, so it’s not like we need to add veterans to help Develope the youngins…
.l
We WILL NEVER become good enough if we keep playing musical chairs with WR and QB every year, we NEED stability to where young Wrs and young QB can gel And grow together over a stretch of two or three years,.,. I have no interest in free agent WRs next offseason.
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Keep our 4 young WR at least until their rookie contract expires, and invest another draft pick to fill the #5 WR spot
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What good is the last two, maybe three years of Deseans prime? Once we Identified our young franchise QB, we need to build th right way around him, instead of looking for short cuts like adding Desean….Im not comfortable betting on Desean still playing at a high level 3 years from now. He doesmt seem like a guy who took care of his body so well that he will prolong his ability to play at a high level the way SPROLES has done..
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I’d like to focus on BUILDING thru the draft.. Maybe sigń a 25yr old free agent or two coming off his rookie contract,…we are going to need our cap space to retain our young Talent long term, instead of letting some band aid free agent like Desean eat up a chunk of valuable Cap space
Problem is does that fit our timeline with this roster and defence? I think you need to commit to trying to win early with this roster, we have a really nice backbone of a defence, good special teams and some really solid parts on offence. We are no longer hamstrung with lack of draft picks and if the big V experiment is positive in the next 10 games we could be looking at a pretty solid OL down the line only needing a new C and LG.
Add in a no.1 WR and a no.1 CB and this is a contending roster especially with how Wentz looks early in his career. We wont have much cap the next few years to spend on FA’s so getting 1-2 cheaper 3rd contract stop gaps while we develop the future may be a smart way to contend in the short term while building the future.
I don’t see Desean as a legit #1 WR,,, not even close to being worth giving him 60 mil that #1 WRs get in free agency… I see Desean continuing to be a fantastic big play weapon, but not even close to a #1 type who we can count on giving us 7 catches each week… Then again, im very excited about our young WRs, not so much excited about who they are today, but excited about who they can become growing under these coaches with our young franchise QB. Im expecting a monster season out of jordan even in an offense that spreads the ball around, and im expecting DGB to make some huge strides in his development over the course of the season
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Desean Jackson is turning 30 years old in December… I could understand signing a 28 year old offensive lineman, but signing a tiny 30 year old speed WR in free agency makes no sense to me at all… If he would be willing to sign a 1 yr deal, I guess it could be fun, but I don’t see that as likely, and I’d hate to waste a roster spot on a stop gap WR…. The more young WR talent we add, the better our chances of seeing two or three of them growing into WRs we want to extend past their rookie contracts..
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Draft a WR, RB, LB, CB, OT in no particular order
Alshon? I don’t know if we can afford him.
I said it before and I will say it again:
BRING DESEAN BACK.
I’d love to see DeSean back. My hope for Agholor is all but gone, and I’m not interested in dropping some more high round picks into the WR lottery. O Line, RB, and CB all the way!
Absurd to be talking about giving up on Nelson when it’s not even half way thru his second NFL season
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Drives me crazy when fans or media don’t respect the player development process and the Patience it requires especially when talking about a kid with Talent and untapped potential who also comes with a solid work ethic
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Given our investment in Ags and the salary cap, it doesn’t make sense to “give up” by doing something like cutting him. Keep trying to develop him and see where he’s at come contract time. Really, I don’t think the Kelly regime did Ags any favors.
But I’m just not impressed with what I’ve seen. On top of inconsistency, I haven’t seen enough flashes to make me think that he’s a real player.
You know how many fans wanted to replace friggin Bennie Logan during his first 20 games as an Eagle? Way more fans wanted to replace HIm than fans who argued against drafting over him.
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You think what Nelson has shown makes me happy? Of course not. Im just not going to pretend that 20 games is enough for me to be able to decide what he will or won’t ever grow into. his talent and ability is REAL. his work ethic is solid, so it may be wise to wait a little longer than his first 4 games in a brand new offense to think we could have Possibly already seen the best it will ever get Nelson, and since he is locked up at an affordable cost on the rookie wage scale for a few more years, there is no reason to consider giving up on his development at the point, he spent his entire rookie season under the worst WR coach in the NFL, and you think it’s as easy as seeing what he looks like in his first 4 games of his second season transitioning to a new scheme which is way more complicated that the offense chip had him running?
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We are talking about a developing young WR with legit talent and ability… Bennie Logan, Brandon Graham, even Vinny Curry WOULDNT be here if we just gave up on kids 20 games into their pro career… I have no idea if he will continue and Develope enough to warrant extending past his rookie season or not, but I do know is he has shown enough ability to make it really foolish for us to give up on him after his second season… until we have 5 better WR’s on our roster, no reason to pull the plug on his development,. I can’t pretend to known how great he will be, but I do know for a fact that he has not reached his ceiling yet, and that he is not done developing.
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Heck people weren’t even willing to bet on Bradford being much better this year after finally getting a season under his belt last year (for the first time in 3 years)… To no surprise a healthy bradford with a years worth of continuity under his belt is playing the best football of his career even tho thousands of Eagles fans would have sworn up and down last year that they knew he would never be much better than we were seeing last year
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It’s not fun having to be Patient and wait for young players to Develope, but its not uncommon for playërs to need more than a year and a quarter to realize their full NFL potential..
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Think we treated enough young Eagles like shit in this city for failing to fullfill our need for instant gratification… We made that mistake enough times to where we should have learned from it by now
People are giving up on him in terms of him living up to the draft pick, which is justifiable. There aren’t enough flashes that make you think he’s going to be a #1 WR. Can he play in the NFL? Sure. Is he going to be the next Maclin like we hoped? Doesn’t look it.
you know how many quality Eagles WOULDNT even be here had we decided what type of NFL player they were destined to become 20 games into their NFL career?
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Might want to give a young kid more than 4 games in a brand new offense which is way more complicated than what we ran last year, before you decide that you already know what Nelson will or won’t ever be…
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He is under contract for a few more years on a very affordable rookie wage scale, he works hard, and he has plenty of untapped potential to continue to work with
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People used to talk about wanting to replace Bennie Logan during the first 20 games of his career, which proved to be pretty fucking ignorant if we are being honest
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Then again, people weren’t even willing to see what Braford could do in year two after getting the first healthy year in 3 seasons under his belt. As if it was pretty easy to project him beimg much more comfortabke than he was last year…You would think people would learn from some of these blatant mistakes and show some Patience and restrain instead of shitting on a young player when he doesn’t live up to your standards early in his NFL transition…. But to each his own I guess
I am huge believer in patience with player development, players can take 3-4 years to become starters, and if you look at teams like the packers and Greenbay they often stay patient and get decent production out of those guys and get them resigned to team friendly contracts.
Having said that Agholor has a long way to go to being a quality NFL WR. While he is quick, he lacks elite speed and size and he is not one of those freakishly twitchy guys. Because of that he needs to be a quality route runner, have good hands and be tough and strong…. none of which he has made any progress on yet so far in his career. Maybe it clicks and he regains his confidence and he can become a fringe no.1 WR type but that is a big stretch at this point.
im certainly not ready to hand Nelson a big extension and bet on him figuring it out, but it’s way to early to view him as some lost cause. I don’t expect him to become a top 10 NFL WR, but I see more than enough ability to cultivate into a quality starter who can be part of good WR corp… Depends on how jordan and DGB Develope. There is a very real chance that those two grow to be good enough to where we don’t even need Nelson to become a #1 WR… As an Individual I dont LOVE him at this point either, but I am very much excited about the potential of what this group of WRs can become. I see enough potential to where I wouldn’t get rid of any of them while they are on their rookie deals, when their contracts expire, that’s when I would decide whether they should continue to be Eagles or not especially since we still have a roster spot or two that we can use to get a look at other young WRs..
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We don’t NEED Jordan, Nelson, and DGB to all become star WRs. If that happened, we wouldn’t be able to keep all 3 of them here Longterm anyway. But I do like our chances to see at least one of those 3 talented young men to Develope into a guy who can be Wentz #1 WR Longterm. I Guess I think the group has a chance to become better than the sum of its parts.. But that’s not a GUARENTEE either, but neither is them Never developing into a player who will be good enough for us,.,. My point is, whether you love him or hate him right now, it’s too early to know either way
“you know how many quality Eagles WOULDNT even be here had we decided what type of NFL player they were destined to become 20 games into their NFL career?”
No. How many?
Don’t decide, dude. Just don’t DECIDE. If you do that, well… you could be wrong. Give the kid a chance, don’t Marcus Smith him! Don’t Danny Watson him! Heck only an idiot would give up on the Fireman so soon. How many Eagles careers would have never gotten off the ground if we hadn’t allowed them to go fight fires for a few years. Now we’ll never know.
And obviously the last 4 games of Sleeves’ career, playing in a perfect situation, is far more indicative of future results than the previous 70.
He’s sliding and kind of a punk, but it’s worth a shot.
At the very least he’ll keep a threat at PR if Sproles is gone.
Half The NFL is already forced to play with at least one Backup offensive Lineman, so I don’t want to hear excuses for why we can’t keep the loss of Lane from completely derailing our season. We aren’t the first team to lose a starting a starting OT…. Now replacing two starting OL could be too much to overcome depending on the Talent level of your backups… Id like to think that Pederson, Reicht and Stoutland can compensate for the loss of Lane.. It’s not like Chip is still coach who’s “genius scheme” was based on only keeping 5 guys into block the majority of the time. Pederson and Reicht should be able to scheme up ways to help Vaitai in his transition to starter
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Teams are dealing with all types of injuries already, it sucks to lose Lane since he has looked like one of the best RT in the league this year, but our entire starting offense is healthy. No excuse for why we can’t at least overcome the loss of one starter on offense…. If Losing 1 starter makes us implode, than we weren’t as we thought to begin with
All we need is for Halapoulivaati Vaitai to hold a block for as long as it takes to say his name.
Living with and around many Pacific Islanders here in Hawaii, an acceptable nick name for persons of that decent that many people use is “Comfy Sofa”. Roles off the tongue better…
Tommy is posting at http://eaglesblog.net again
Tommy is loving this team so much right now.
If Dallass also beats GB I’ll start to worry about dem boys…
GB doesn’t seem as good this year though. The only game I’ve chalked up to a definite loss is Seattle and Atlanta (both road games). The rest are all IMO winnable games. Whether they do remains to be seen.
Yeah, their pass defense is bad. Guys running open constantly.
GB isnt a contender in my eyes.. But facing them in Lambeau is never a cake a walk.
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The one thing that gives me comfort that GB will be able to take care of Dallas, is that the GB Offensive Line should dominate the Cowboys DL, and if you protect Rogers at home he is going to put up points
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But unless you have an elite Defensive Line, that Cowboys OL/Zeke is going to cause some problems
GB comes to Philly. If we were playing them in Lambeau, I’d chalk that up as a loss too. Rodgers plays like a god in Lambeau.
Yeah but ISNT the dallas game in Lambeau?
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When the chip kelly Eagles went to Lambeau, we didn’t stand much of a chance
I believe it is. Can’t wait for SNF in a couple weeks. If we take care of business, shouldn’t matter what the other teams do.
True that!
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What’s exciting is Wentz has energized this FANBASE so much, that it has brought back a legitimate home field advantage at the Linc that we haven’t Consistently had in a while… The LINC has been ROCKIN so far this year
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I’d hate to play the Vikings in Minesota, or GB in LAMBAEU… It’s bad enough that we have to go into seattle… But I like our Chances at Home against the Vikings. but because that game will be so tough, it becomes so important that we beat the skins this weekend.. The last thng we need is the pressure of going into that Vikings game on 2 game losing streak, on the verge of blowing the 3-0 start to the season
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The skins ARENT world beaters, but this is such an important weekend, that it’s going to tell us a lot about this team. hopefully we step up to the Challenge, win our first division game of the Wentz era, and put an end to the recent losing streak against the skins… We beat the skins, and I like our chances going into that Vikings game with a 4-1 record.
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Need to stop the bleeding and beat the skins so that the Detroit loss DOESNT turn into a losing streak
For me this year is all about seeing how Wentz , Peterson and the whole team respond to different situations. That being said I expect to be competetive and win more than we lose. I think this year is a play off team because of the other NFC “competition”
Falcons are at the Linc.
Hmm that changes things. Still a tough game with our corners, but would make things better to have them at home. Seems the birds got some lucky breaks with who they play at home. Minn, GB, and Atl would all be very tough wins on the road. Having them here at least gives them a bit of comfort.
Already worried about Dallas.
CAN”T WAIT to play them
Green Bay better not choke like Cincy did.
I don’t think DAL is better than PHI but there is simply no denying they are a decent team. The upside is that the NFC overall looks pretty weak this year, and somehow the NFC East is looking like the best division.
Jordan Reed is being evaluated for a concussion.
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Someone needs to forced him to retire, he is too damn young in his career to have already suffered 5 or 6 concussions. It’s so bad that as a hated rival, I can’t even stand to see him take another head shot,,,,
he’s just about to get a deal
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/10/12/jordan-reed-being-evaluated-for-concussion/
Good for us / bad for my fantasy team.
Of interest, since I’m one of the most vocal people about his performances over the last couple of years. Kelce is listed by PFF as the 35th best center in the league, which means three backup Cs have graded out better than him.
https://imgur.com/a/u7ilQ
Doesn’t PFF have Wentz as the #1 QB in the NFL?
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Man, We must have the best offensive players in the NFL to have an Incompetant center and still manage to produce one of the top offenses in the first quarter of the season
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peters is washed up, Kelce is the worst center ever, Barbie is a journey man, Brooks has struggled, yet we are so good that we produce an efficient offense anyway,.. Who needs OL talent apparently?
I think Kelce is as good as the line around him. If the Guards are playing well, he looks fine. If not, he looks a mess.
At least one of the two delay of game calls was on him holding the ball too long.
Blame him for both,,, but comitting two penalties over the course of 60 plays DOESNT automatically equal a bad game. I don’t care how good the lineman is, unrealistic to expect him to win 100% of the Battles against the DL over the course of a game… The other team has DLineman making millions too
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It’s almost like there are fans who if they see an OL like Jason Peters give up a sack, or commit a penalty or two, and they automatically view that as a bad game regardless of what happened in the other 50 plays..
True, but notice I’ve been quiet this season about Kelce. I only posted this because it’s interesting that they rate him so low. Trust me, if I thought Kelce was doing bad, I’d be ripping him the same way I did last year (or the way I was ripping Daniel in preseason).
Was more so of a general statement of how we tend to judge OL play, than specifically aimed at you..
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Great or horrible, think we can all at least agree that Kelce hasn’t been perfect, and he has made more mistakes than we would like, so it’s certainly fair to talk about his mistakes and hope that we see him do better in the future..
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But with an experienced veteran like Wisnewski on the bench, Kelce WOULDNT be lining up in front of our rookie Golden Boy if he was playing as bad as some people like to pretend
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But as a former OLineman, I lknow first hand how hard it is to execute your offense if your center is getting his butt whipped every week. You need to be pretty damn good to consitently overcome Incopetant center play and still execute offense and put up an average of like 28 pts
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Not as good as we would like him to be, but no where close to as bad as some seem to think, if there were 34 centers playing better than Kelce, Wisnewski would be starting this week
True. I think it’s a testament to the coaches that they are getting the most out of these guys. Frankly, we should be 4-0, and with a horribly officiated game we still only lost by 1. I expect a big win this week, and I wouldn’t want to be Washington’s OL this week coming in against a very angry team.
Actually, for a lineman 2 penalties in 60 plays pretty much means a bad game (unless he’s dominant the other 58 plays).
Odds are, those are two drives that a killed by that player.
They were in silent count, with Brooks doing the thigh tap to let him know when to go. On at least one of those occasions, Brooks didn’t tap him until the clock was at zero. That’s not on Kelce.
On the plus side I’m surprised he ranked this high!
He’s brutal.
Cover me Pinkins.
Mckelvin has a lingering hammy issue, I think we should hold him out of the ‘Skins game. Hammy problems just keep resurfacing if you try and rush back from them, I say give it more than enough time to get all the way back so we aren’t in the cycle of re-injury.
Of course every year teams get players with lingering hammy problems back in and every year they re-injure, so I assume we’re just going to do that.
Makes you wonder what he was doing instead of rehabbing it while he was taking all of that time off.
So I was checking out the NFL FA list since Djax was brought up today. I picked out some targets of interest if they hit FA.
2017 NFL FA WRs
Alshon Jeffrey
Kendall Wright
Djax
Pierre Garcon
Terelle Pryor
Jeremy Kerley
Kenny Stills
Kamar Aiken
Marquise Goodwin
Alshon all day.
How much would he cost?
Too much. 🙁
Right now he makes $14.6 million. I’m not sure if that’s the asking price or not.
I think he is under the franchise tag
According to sporttrac, around $12.5 million a year. I’d pay that if we had it.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/alshon-jeffery-9855/market-value/
Big IF though…
And another issue is that a team will probably pay him more. I think if he’s on our team, we are a legit superbowl contender as we stand. He instantly makes a mediocre receiver core good.
Thanks for the list.
Taking age, money and fit into account probably only DJax (and maybe Pryor) will make sense.
I honestly wouldn’t mind Pryor. And he wont cost and arm and leg. I really want to see what we have in Treggs sooner than later
Also cant keep going long periods where we ignore Matthews or ertz
pryor would be great. kudos to browns for believing in him and not having any real WRs to start in front of him.
Yes I’m hoping for a big game by Ertz against the Redskins next week.
We definitely miss having a deep threat.
I thought thats why we poached treggs from San Francisco
He hasn’t caught a ball yet..so I’m going to assume he’s not even on the field.
He hasnt been active. We dress 4 RBs instead
I would love to have him back. Best deep threat in the game but the price has to be right. I’m just not sure if he’ll come back here on a discount.
He sure didn’t sound against it today!
Insomniac made me go Google salary cap projections for next year. Looking for more info in the meantime, but it looks like our projected cap is less than $1 million.
If anything, they should restructure Chase Daniel. Or maybe he’ll retire.
http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-teams-facing-salary-cap-issues-2017.html/?a=viewall
Barwin has a huge number (like $7m). Sproles is up there too, maybe $5m.
Those two aren’t likely to be in Philly at those numbers.
Daniel would probably be re-structured. Who knows if Kendricks is around. Kelce could get re-structured -right there you’ve found a quick 20 million plus.
Peters too
Dropped that in an edit.
That seems awfully low – I thought I had read that number before the sleeves trade – are you sure the numbers you were looking at were post that?
-Peters can go. Time to move Lane to LT
-Barwin they could trade if they wanna make a run at like Jeffery in FA
-Kendricks is a lot of dead $ but playing too bad to keep. also trade possibility
-Ryan Mathews isn’t that good, is always hurt, fumbles
-Sproles maybe?
-dead weight like Marcus Smith and Josh Huff if they don’t improve
Off subject, but tangentially related to the issues of substances, PEDs, and personal conduct, I was talking to a college guy last night and he offered his disgust at the hypocrisy of meting out punishment for personal use of marijuana, as well as sexual conduct, in the fields of professional sports and politics. He said that when his demographic grows into maturity, the Facebook Generation (his term), no one will be able to run for public office because their computer history will be hacked and every guy’s porn use will be revealed. He said the only people who will be able to run for public office will be those who have been so repressed and restrained they can’t reasonably represent the great public. We also kicked around the idea of college athletes having their computers hacked and what that could mean for their draft status. Interesting discussion.
But as the norm evolves, will anyone care?
Perfectly said.
Was trying to be that erudite.
Great question. Wish I would have thought to raise it.
Yes, old people. I think of my father-in-law, who’s nearly 80, as quite conservative, given that he loves Fox News, calls it “Good News” for some reason. He also is an evolution-denier. Nevertheless, he has a PhD in Social Work, married someone from another race, and wrote dissertations on integrating East Asian immigrants. He says “I used to be a liberal, and I haven’t changed. The world changed.”
As we evolve it remains to be seen if future politicians value that demographic.
What demographic is that, old people..?
Sounds like a good man to me… I mean, you might not agree with his politics, but watching Fox News does not immediately disqualify anyone (and its content is often more relevant and newsworthy than CNN, for example).
With few exceptions, the news programs are no longer reporting as objectively as possible, they are presenting a point of view. This holds across the political spectrum. My liberal friends hate when I quote Bill O’Reilly. My conservative friends discount anything I’ve learned from Chris Matthews.
Totally agree. The only show I watch on Fox is Special Report; haven’t found anything on CNN that’s worth the time. MSNBC is not a news station at all.
The third pillar of our Democracy is failing our citizenry. I see the effects among my friends; few of them offer much respect to others on the other side of the political aisle.
As an aside, I think I posted this before, but you might get a chuckle. I saw a red, white and blue lawn sign that read:
They Both Suck
We’re Screwed 2016
I need to get my hands on one of those! 🙂 Thanks for sharing.
If you ever run for office, let me know and I’ll put your sign on my lawn.
Magee for Gubernatorial!
If you use “Dallas Sucks” as your slogan you can count on the Philly vote.
He is a good guy, we just learned to not talk politics. In a way, politics doesn’t matter.
Sounds like an interesting man. I like people who are intellectual strong but difficult to pigeonhole. I think it was Emerson who said, “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”
Is he an Eagles fan?
Like the Tunsil situation. He’s gotta be even more pissed now that he ended up in Miami.
Great example. I forgot about him.
On conf. call, DeSean Jackson says LeSean McCoy texted him this morning with a photo from their #Eagles days and “we was awesome together.”
They were..fuck Chip Kelly.
The entire last year of CKs tenure we all got repeatedly fucked and still were horny…
and then the Wentz wagon picked us up and we’re even more horny now.
okay, that sounded kind of weird
Life can be…