They’re Listening
Posted: December 9th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 80 Comments »Doug Pederson isn’t good at PCs. Too some, this won’t seem like a big deal. But it is. Pederson’s answers to questions can create a narrative before or after each game. The media runs their stories and they get through to the players, even if the players try to avoid them. Pederson might say one thing behind closed doors and another to the media. The players are getting both messages and might not like the public version. That proved to be the case this week.
Jeff McLane wrote a good piece on the situation. Here’s part of it.
Doug Pederson meets with the Eagles’ leadership council every Tuesday, but this week was more contentious than others after the coach questioned the effort of his team, according to several players who were in the meeting.
A day earlier, Pederson said that “not everybody” on the team had played hard in a 32-14 loss to the Bengals. If he had intended to send a message, it wasn’t consistent with how he handled two earlier questions concerning effort when Pederson said that he had not seen any quit in his players despite a 29-0 deficit.
But a third attempt elicited the above response. Whether Pederson decided to finally take the opportunity to call out his team – he didn’t name individuals – or whether it was a slip of the tongue remains unclear. Either way, he took a narrative and gave it life.
“I think it puts us in a little bit of a tough position as players,” Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins said Wednesday, “because now everybody wants to know who you’re talking about.”
The leadership council consists of at least one player from each position as voted on by their peers. The 13 players are quarterback Carson Wentz, running back Darren Sproles, wide receiver Jordan Matthews, tight end Brent Celek, offensive linemen Jason Kelce and Jason Peters, defensive linemen Connor Barwin, Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham, linebacker Jordan Hicks, special teams representatives Chris Maragos and Jon Dorenbos and Jenkins.
Various topics were discussed during Tuesday’s gathering, but Pederson’s questioning of the effort was the primary focus. “Testy” was how one player described parts of the conversation. The issue for some players, specifically on the defensive side, was that Pederson implicated the entire team when it was believed he was referring to examples, particularly tight end Zach Ertz’s non-block, on offense.
Pederson addressed the entire team Wednesday and said that player response to his comments was “great” and “positive.”
“They’re players and they understand,” Pederson said. “I’ve been in that chair before, and so I get it. I think that’s the great thing about having played the game, is you can relate to those guys and you know exactly what they’re going through.”
Two Eagles players said they felt that if there was any lingering resentment over Pederson’s remarks it was resolved after Wednesday’s practice, which many described as spirited.
Pederson has to pick and choose his words very carefully when speaking to the media. He didn’t do that when he answered the question about effort. He gave the media an answer they could run with. That got back to the players and suddenly they have to deal with answering questions about his answer. Not good.
The best coaches know how to use the media. Bill Parcells would rip some of his players publicly to try and light a fire under them. Jimmy Johnson used the media to build up and tear down his teams. Andy Reid was the master of saying nothing. He took the blame for everything, which infuriated fans and bored the media, but it made his players love him. Bill Belichick flat out says nothing.
Pederson tries to answer questions in a thoughtful way, even when he’s giving a BS answer. He needs to stop doing that. The media isn’t there to be his friend. He needs to stop trying to be theirs. Don’t take the bait. Give them bland, generic answers. That keeps you out of trouble and it keeps the players from having to answer questions about what you might be thinking.
I’m not saying Pederson should turn completely into Reid. There are times when giving a full answer is smart. If you are too safe, the media will turn on you because boring answers mean they don’t have material to work with. That makes them unhappy (as you would expect) and it leads to stories with more of a negative slant.
Pederson really needs to learn to control the message. He needs to go into a PC with a gameplan. Do I want to call out some players to get them fired up? Do I want to praise my players after a tough game to help their confidence?
Psychology is a huge part of success in athletics. I think it is especially true in football because you play so few games. You can’t afford to have a slump. You need to be at your best as often as possible. Pederson needs the men in the locker room to fear him, respect him and to listen to him. If they also like him, that’s great. But it isn’t as important as the others.
Players were scared of Jimmy Johnson. Leon Lett cried in the locker room after the famous 1993 blocked field goal fiasco that cost Dallas a game. Lett, who was huge and very talented, was just sure he was going to get cut. Some players hated Parcells. The Gatorade bath that coaches now get to honor big wins started when NT Jim Burt dumped Gatorade on Parcells because he was so mad at him. Even Bill Walsh, who seemed so nice, was tough on players. Steve Young isn’t his biggest fan. Walsh was a perfectionist and not every player handled that well.
Pederson needs to figure out what message he’s trying to get through to his team and stick with it. He can’t say one thing to the players and the complete opposite to the media and expect that to go smoothly. He can tell his players one thing and then tell the media nothing, but don’t open a can of worms with a dumb comment that creates a lot of confusion.
I do think there is a benefit to the current situation. It seems to have gotten everyone out of their comfort zone and that’s something this team needed. Pederson is a rookie coach and he’s learning lessons just like the players. It will be interesting to see how the team responds on Sunday. It will also be interesting to see his PC after the game.
_
We just all need to pray that Dug can keep developing into a “good” coach.
I’m more praying that Lurie becomes a better owner.
no CB on that committee?
Given how much slot CB Jenkins has to play, he’s virtually a corner…
No one plays CB on this team.
probably supposed to be 1, but they keep showing up late to the wrong room.
Good piece but one of the things (among any others) Lurie really highlighted about Pederson was his ability to think on his feet & give very intelligent responses to questions.
I understand that there is always a degree of hyperbole with a new coaching hire but here is nothing to date I’ve heard from Pederson in his press conferences/interviews that begins to validate the statement.
At best, he labors though press conferences. At worst, he struggles with struggles with labored responses that can be puzzling or even contradictory. Maybe he is different in a private setting especially 1-on-1 but there is nothing I’ve seen to date that impresses me in his ability as public speaker.
He struggles to get through his public speaking appearances let alone begins to command the room & project presence.
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/12/09/eagles-carson-wentz-rookie-quarterback-philadelphia-stats-on-pace-2016-records-passing-donovan-mcnabb-numbers/
“Only one quarterback in NFL history has attempted more passes than Wentz is on pace to throw. That would be Andrew Luck at 627. He only had a 54% completion.
Wentz is currently projected to be one of only four rookie
quarterbacks with at least 3,868 passing yards as a rookie. The other
three players include Luck (4,374), Cam Newton (4,051), and Jameis Winston (4,042).
Only seven quarterbacks have started all 16 games and finished with
better passer ratings than what Wentz is projected to finish with. The
names include Russell Wilson (100), Matt Ryan (87.7), Newton (84.5), Winston (84.2), Jim Kelly (83.3), Andy Dalton (80.4), and Joe Flacco (80.3).”
Good perspective although to me it is pretty damning that Wentz has thrown anymore near that much given most of their games. This team generally has been effective or semi-effective at running the ball too this year. That is also a red mark against Pederson and his play calling critics.
The stat about starting 16 games and passer rating is bizarre. First, I am suspicious it is even true. Second, it is not impressive. There have been hundreds and hundreds better performances than that.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_single_season.htm
He’s talking about rookies.
That makes sense, but it’s not clear in the article.
“Wentz is currently projected to be one of only four rookie
quarterbacks with at least 3,868 passing yards as a rookie. The other
three players include Luck (4,374), Cam Newton (4,051), and Jameis Winston (4,042).”
When stat cutoffs get this arbitrary, wouldn’t it be easier to just say he’s projected to be in 4th?
“In the last two weeks, Aaron Rodgers and Andy Dalton released the ball on average in less than 2.5 seconds — which is considered very quick — and they had surprising success doing so. On throws when the two quarterbacks got rid of the ball in less than 2.5 seconds, they combined for a 121.3 passer rating, three touchdowns versus zero interceptions and a 79.8 completion percentage, per Pro Football Focus.”
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/12/08/philadelphia-eagles-defense-jim-schwartz-leodis-mckelvin-jalen-mills-nolan-carroll/#CjUpqVVdto7JKkwM.99
Why bother dinking and dunking when you can complete it 30 yards downfield 80% of the time too?
Players are upset from something that even Reese and Quick were questioning during the broadcast?
Go out this week and give effort. Yeah fans will still harp on stuff if they lose but to me it will be pretty apparent quickly whether they got angry or just at this point had too many how have checked out.
Several whiffs and “non-tackles” during the last game. Ertz wasn’t alone in dodging tackles/blocks!
“Just a few months ago, the team traded away 2015 second-round pick Eric Rowe, who has reportedly allowed only four receptions out of 12 targets for 45 yards in the last three weeks for the Patriots. In that same span, each of the Eagles’ three main cornerbacks has allowed four catches for at least 74 yards in a single game”
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/12/08/philadelphia-eagles-defense-jim-schwartz-leodis-mckelvin-jalen-mills-nolan-carroll/#CjUpqVVdto7JKkwM.99
Eric Rowe and Jalen Mills are the two main reasons Schwartz cannot be given final say (or even much input) on defensive personnel moves this offseason. Not to mention Ron Brooks (who at the end of this year will have missed 27 games over 5 years), McKlevin, and Tulloch. Throw in the huge contract and limited production from Vinny Curry, Schwartz has been less than stellar with his personnel input.
Rowe at a minimum could have taken the place of Watkins as nickel safety when Jenkins moves tot he slot. It’s crazy to think it was more about his laid back persona than skillset.
Schwartz is a good d-coordinator and a bad head coach. Because he has routinely had trouble with seeing the big picture and making big picture decisions.
I really wish people would stop trying so hard to make the spelling “Dug” a thing. Please desist.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b4/c0/5d/b4c05df2a3a91f9f21597e40dbb68a5d.jpg
*”love on you”
I really dug this.
“If the Eagles decide to wait until later in the draft, the team could use their first-round pick on a wide receiver or a running back.
Kiper mentioned USC wide receiver Juju Smith-Schuster as a possibility late in the first round.”
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2016/12/09/mel-kiper-nfl-draft-cornerback-desmond-king-christian-mccaffrey/
_______________
When someone says “draft a USC wide receiver” — let alone “in the first round” . . .
You should run in the other direction. And fast.
It’s been 20 years since USC’s turned out a really good WR:
Keyshawn Johnson in 1996.
Here’s a list of USC wideouts taken in Rds 1-3 over the past 20 years since the Jets drafted Johnson 1st overall (in reverse chrono order)
– Nelson Agholor (1st)
– Marquise Lee (2nd)
– Robt Woods (2nd)
– Damien Williams (3rd)
– Patrick Turner (3rd)
– Dwayne Jarrett (2nd)
– Steve Smith (2nd)
– Mike Williams (1st)
– Keary Colbert (2nd)
– R. Jay Soward (1st)
Thanks but no thanks
Times 100!
Only Steve Smith was even competent?
And I don’t know if I’d even call Key “great”. “Solid”, “Pretty Good”? Sure, but not great.
How many terrible ‘juju’ and voodoo jokes can the Philly media possibly make?
Fewer than if we had taken HaHa Clinton-Dix
Love to see where USC players rank in general over the past 20 years:
The ’04 Championship team had some busts (Leinart being the obvious one) but a lot of guys who had good/very good NFL careers including S. Smith, Bush, Kalil, Patterson, Tatupu, etc
Those moribund USC wide receivers could form a hall of fame level WR corpse.
Also be wary of drafting anyone named Mike Williams. I don’t think there has been a very successful one yet.
Adventures in speculation:
What if instead of Foles, that we’d somehow got Bradford? So Bradford got to set up behind the formidable steamroller that was the offense that year. Would we have broken the NFL? Is Bradford such an upgrade over Foles (such that his defenders would claim) that an already dominant offense would go into Patriots 2007 territory? Or would SB’s tendencies to throw 1 yard passes have brought it all to a halt?
What if instead of Chip, we’d gotten Arians? Would he have put together an old-school, tough-nosed team, featuring disciplined, excellent defense and long-ball oriented passing? Instead of the succession if gimmicks we’ve endured in the last 5-6 years? Would he have been more successful here than Chip and Dug?
What if, due to weird science fiction reasons, Wentz was drafted by the Cowboys this year? Would his apparently better tools have translated into even more success for them? Would they have won all their games? Or would his tendency to throw high sometimes have spoiled things and maybe resulted in a loss or two?
what if I won the lottery?
but on the other hand, you’ve got five more fingers
What if your comment was relevant to the article?
Know your enemy: Philadelphia Eagles.
It’s not just the players that are listening; so are the opponents. After the Week 2 win over Chicago, Doug was asked about the Eagles’ opening drive success in the first two games. All he had to do was say something like “the guys came out fired up” or “they really executed well,” but instead he gives this detailed explanation of how he scripts the first drive based on the opponent’s alignment and tendencies specifically during their previous opening drives on defense. Then bragged how he had noticed the Bears would be vulnerable to short passes. I was literally saying “shut up” over and over again while I listened to that presser.
With players avg career of approx 4 or 5y they owe it to themselves to .. and the coach to ….
Aw forget it
As a potentially soonish to be member of the media I can assure you we are not your friends. Of course in this weird blended land of sports/enthusiast press that surrounds the Eagles, I always wonder how you can separate the fan who wants the Eagles to do well with the journalist who might stir up some shit that causes problems for them.
Honestly I think it only makes a difference when the team isn’t doing well. Teams that are doing well right now get tons of clicks because people love reading about how good their team is. When your team isn’t doing well, the only thing that will get clicks is controversy pieces. Someone linked an All-22 in the last thread, and I jokingly said ‘no thanks’. I think that sums it up.
My recaps from the first three weeks did: 15k, 20k, 16k respectively.
My last two weeks have both been about 3500.
will you be covering the Iggles?
No, not my area of interest, journalistically speaking. Plus I’m a fan, how could I be trusted to report on the team honestly? If I had some news that I thought could damage or distract the team somehow, why on earth would I report it?
ok so tell us more, or are you deliberately not?
I respect your bias.
Somehow it seems apropos to mention that “post-truth” was declared the word of the year by Oxford Dictionaries:
‘The dictionary defines “post-truth” as “relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief.”’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/16/post-truth-named-2016-word-of-the-year-by-oxford-dictionaries/?utm_term=.b04e5535a34c
Yep, I had heard about that and found it to be a very useful word to describe the socio-political world we live in today. We’re almost living in a post-truth society today.
In retrospect, for which I need no correction or prescription, Andy Reid’s defiant contempt for the media and public perception doesn’t now look so pathetic to me. My sense of Pederson is that he’s not an asshole like Parcells was, not a shock artist like Buddy Ryan, not a grand calculator/mute like his mentor, and not an amped up cheerleader like Pete Carroll. What he does seem to be is an authentic coach who hasn’t devoted much of his time to shaping perceptions of himself. In the world of PR, that can be deadly. But if he offers less in his PC’s, I’ll mark him down as aware, because it has been his desire to take on questions and answer most of them honestly that has cost him. He has got one overriding responsibility as Eagles HC and that is to have the respect and unwavering accedence of each player. DP may be hurt, even angry , at how his words have complicated his job, but because I believe him to be emotionally balanced, I don’t see him becoming confrontational with members of the media a la Dennis Green or Jim Mora. DP has got to get across to his guys that he’s got their backs, but they won’t be around long if a professional approach to practice and self-improvement is not a goal to which they aspire.
I’m not in a place where I care to watch press conferences these days. Haven’t for a few years. Probably only did when I went to EMB daily, they were right there, why not.
I personally loved Reid’s PCs. If you are the captain of a navy ship and it runs aground at 3am, while you are an over night shore leave, you STILL get court marshaled. (Or so they used to tell us in NJROTC). Logically, if you are the head man and there is any mishap anywhere in line, you are at least somewhat responsible.
I didn’t watch much of Chip but really disliked his deferral of blame to the players, habitually.
wait, if you are on a permitted, excused leave you still get court marshaled? seems unlikely. what if it runs aground because your PT boat got halved by a Japanese ship? I’m mixing stories now.
If you delegate command to a subordinate, you’re still his superior and ultimately responsible (is I guess the rationale).
Lol I don’t know, its just something they told us about over and over to make us learn about responsibility.
http://www.phillyvoice.com/its-about-that-time-for-the-eagles-to-play-the-young-guys/
I agree 100% with Kempski but it really puts Pederson in an awkward position if they did it this week given what has transpired.
Personally, I bet you would see a better effort overall out of this team if they did it and likely a slightly better result too.
“The leadership council consists of at least one player from each position…”
I am glad to see no one is pretending that we have any CBs on this team.
Put some fans on that council
日复一日，年复一年，你的博客，让人流连！
“I’m not saying Pederson should turn completely into Reid”
I don’t know, I kinda liked Andy being Andy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZVJEeVAnI4
Gonna start watching CB’s on DraftBreakdown. What type has Schwartz typically preferred at his past stops? Big/Shorter/quicker? I know confidence is key.
I just hope we actually get the mythical “Good at Press Man” CB we keep hearing we already have, but never use…
Enough of these 10 yard cushions on every play!
Seriously. Keeping 7 in coverage and tight up on the 5 guys in the pattern should allow our front 4 time right time to get home.
I love the 17 yard cushion where the cornerback immediately retreats even deeper at the snap on third and 15, so that when the WR inevitably runs a yard past the sticks, stops and turns around our CB is still somehow 5 yards away from him allowing the easy conversion of a ridiculous 3rd and long. Those are my favorite.
I think the large cushion may be less about not being able to press and more about cheating because they can’t cover.
He plays a bit of everything. He doesn’t care about size and isn’t a whore for athleticism. In general you’re looking for more football player than athlete. Values physicality and ability to play the run. I think he would rather a guy who can stick the hip pocket over a guy who can just carry 9 routes stride for stride.
Desmond King may be the platonic ideal, especially if he runs not terribly (I think there’s a chance he could run worse than 4.55)
Humphrey from Alabama may fit the mold too although there isn’t the strongest recorrd of cbs cpmong from there.
I enjoy Pederson’s press conferences. I appropriate when a guy isn’t guarded, but I do understand why it isn’t always in his best interest to be overly forthcoming with information.
I just really hope we get 3 division wins down the stretch, lose to Baltimore to keep Pittsburgh potentially out of the playoffs, and see the Vikings lose out.
So; a battle back to 8-8, demoralized Washington, NYG, and Pittsburgh fans, and a top 10ish pick courtesy of the Bradford trade with 16th/17th ish picks in the following rounds.
I’m still stunned about the lay downs vs. Green Bay and Cincy. I hope that gets turned around.
Did some scouting on RBs and I like what I’m seeing so far. I was reading up on some RBs and some of the more interesting comparisons I’ve seen so far is Dalvin Cook is Miami/Bronco’s Clinton Portis. It’s pretty much spot on too.
My armchair GM comparisons so far
Leonard Fournette = AP
Dalvin Cook = Bronco’s Clinton Portis
D’onta Foreman = Michael Turner/Jonathan Stewert
Christian McCaffery = Arian Foster (after he puts on 5-15 pounds)
Royce Freeman = a bigger and more durable Devonta Freeman (are they related?)
Samaje Perine = Legarrete Blount
Nice work. I really enjoy the player comps because it helps contextualize guys who I haven’t seen as much.
I would really enjoy adding a RB (and a WR, and a CB), but I’m still seeing making the O-line impenetrable as the bigger goal. Sadly, not a lot of premium talent this year.
And any chance you looked at Chubb from Georgia as well?
I have but medical concerns has put him off my list until the combine. He just doesn’t look the same right now.
Noted. And here is a run I just took through a mock
Round 1 Pick 22 (ATL): Desmond King, CB, Iowa (A-)
Round 2 Pick 11: Ethan Pocic, C/OG, LSU (A)
Round 2 Pick 22 (ATL): Mike McGlinchey, OT, Notre Dame (B+)
Round 3 Pick 11: Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma (A)
Round 4 Pick 11: Vince Biegel, OLB, Wisconsin (A-)
Round 5 Pick 1: Malachi Dupre, WR, LSU (A+)
Round 5 Pick 11: Davon Godchaux, DT, LSU (A-)
Round 6 Pick 11: Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio (A-)
Round 7 Pick 11: Jeremy Cutrer, CB, Middle Tennessee (C+)
Last year Jenkins was unhappy with players not being called out, this year he’s unhappy because they are. He should talk less to the media about this kind of stuff.
totally lost interest in this bum after the national anthem protest
Awww
I remember him wanting players held accountable, but only in the context of benching them. Did he ever ask for public tarting and feathering?
That might be one of my favorite auto corrects. Just trying to picture a public tarting.
Ha. Damn autocorrect never misses an opportunity.
Not surprised Peterson feels pressure speaking to the media. First, Philly media is probably the toughest. Second, I expect Lurie made it clear that he wanted a better relationship with fans and media than Kelly had. Owners who truly put winning above all else are rare, but they tend to run the teams who are competitive year in and year out. Coaching is hard enough without worrying about extra crap.
If you play like those players played in the last 2 weeks (I give them Seattle, because it’s brutal to play there), where the team showed no skills and no heart, you better accept your HC to call you out as a team. Pederson didn’t point out players, which is ok. But he has every freaking right to be embarrassed by what his team did in the last 2 weeks.
Family atmosphere is great and all that, but we talk about professional sports here. If you don’t come to play, you have no right to be sugarcoated by your Coach. And you can bet Andy Reid (I’m not even talking about Saban, Belichick or Jimmy Johnson) would have said the same things during meetings. Now, Pederson said it publicly, but you can do that as a HC if you think that needs to be said.
I hope that this team isn’t getting too complacent and cuddled because the owner of the team has freed them from a very hard coach and gave them a player friendly coach. Wouldn’t be good, anyway, but especially not in Philly with the demanding fanbase. And you can say anything you like about the demanding fanbase, they have every freaking right in the world to expect enough effort from their team. Nobody questioned it after the first 5 losses, because they showed effort and just weren’t good enough to win. But if you play like crap, which is what they did in the last 2 losses, people will question it and they are right.
Right? Where do these players get off acting like it’s an unacceptable travesty to be called out for their effort when they show up so undeniably flat and out of sync multiple weeks in a row.
As the great Rudy Ray Moore once said, “When I see a ghost, I cut the mutha f***a.”
Well maybe that doesn’t really have much to do with this but it will be intreresing to see if this team answers Pederson’s public rebuke or not. If not, that’s a really bad sign for Pederson.
This year wasn’t so much about wins and losses but how the young players developed along with how Pederson progressed as a head coach.
https://twitter.com/EagleFanProbs/status/807640269650857984