Denied!!!

Posted: February 4th, 2017 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 239 Comments »

Dawk did not get into the Hall of Fame today.

Nor did TO.

Voters did elect this group.

I can live with those guys making it, but Morten Andersen? A kicker? That stings, to put it mildly.

He was a great kicker in his era, but his numbers pale in comparison to today’s kickers. And it isn’t like Andersen was some great postseason kicker. I could see Adam Vinatieri making it because of all his amazing clutch kicks. Andersen played for 26 years and does hold some NFL records (most career FGs made), but putting him in over a dominant position player seems silly.

Some people were upset with the choice of Jason Taylor. I think he is one of the best DEs I ever saw play so I can live with that. He wasn’t on great teams, but posted very good career numbers.

Dawk is a special player and deserved to make it.

That’s pretty incredible.

I think a couple of things worked against Dawk. First, he never won a Super Bowl. Fair or not, that is important for making it in.

He wasn’t part of a great defense. The Eagles never finished first overall in yards or points allowed in his career. They were second a few times, but that’s not the same. As a LB or DB, it helps a lot for you to be on a great unit. You can glance at Taylor’s sack totals and see when he had big seasons. Dawk never had more than 4 INTs or 3.5 sacks in a season. There is no “wow” year for him statistically.

It may take a year, two or even more, but Dawk should get in. He did have a great career.

I thought TO had a real chance to make it in. He is being punished for his erratic behavior off the field. Owens deserves to be in, but I’m not going to feel sorry for the guy. He is paying the price for his own behavior. If he hadn’t been such a jerk over the years, he’d already be wearing a gold jacket.

In a way, this is fair punishment by the Football Gods. I think Donovan McNabb had a real chance to make the Hall of Fame. He finished 2nd in the NFL in MVP voting in 2000. He threw 25 TD passes in 2001 and almost got his team to the Super Bowl. Injuries slowed him the next 2 years, but McNabb and Owens did team to lead the Eagles to the SB in 2004. McNabb threw 31 TD passes and played really well. At that point, McNabb was on track to make it to Canton.

Then TO went TO. He split the locker room and forever eroded the relationship between McNabb and his teammates. McNabb never threw for more than 23 TDs in the rest of his career. He never ran for 250 yards in a season. TO got in his head and never left.

If TO hadn’t gone nuclear on McNabb and the Eagles, who knows how things might have gone. The team might have made it back to the Super Bowl in the ensuing years and both those guys might be in Canton. Maybe not, but those guys made a dynamic duo in 2004. They could have been special if they played together for several years.

The Eagles are undoubtedly the ultimate “What If” team.

*****

Dawk would not approve of that language, BLG. But yeah…you’re right.

_

239 Comments on “Denied!!!”

  1. 1 daveH said at 10:54 PM on February 4th, 2017:

    1 QB

  2. 2 Media Mike said at 6:51 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    The best Dawk hit is when he ended Ike Hilliard.

  3. 3 GordonGekko said at 2:06 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I remember that play and it was awesome, however, that didn’t derail Donte’s career, it was the torn ACL that did it for him.

  4. 4 daveH said at 3:27 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I agree with you but that hit broke his morale and his attitude changed after that he didn’t run the same. Put fear in him. He was the biggest fastest strongest player in the NFL the time but his attitude changed after that hit

  5. 5 Denied!!! - said at 10:58 PM on February 4th, 2017:

    […] Tommy Lawlor Dawk did not get into the Hall of Fame today. Nor did TO. Voters did elect this group. Your Pro […]

  6. 6 SteveH said at 11:35 PM on February 4th, 2017:

    Take Jerruh Jones out and put Dawk in. That’s fair, right?

  7. 7 CaliEaglesFan said at 1:26 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I’m sorry Tommy, but there is no justifying Dawkins and Owens not getting in. This makes the Hall of Fame look like a complete joke.

  8. 8 anon said at 2:31 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Cowboys coach for coach of the year. Dak for rookie of the year? Insult to injury. Dak’s numbers were crazy though.

  9. 9 Media Mike said at 6:52 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Game manager

  10. 10 Ankerstjernen said at 4:31 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    Every year they have to come up with some kind of false narrative in order to avoid giving COTY to Belichik. Its laughable. It is like he broke the system and now they just have to pretend that he doesnt exist in order to make it fair for the rest. Dan Quin, by the way, should be up there too. Screw the cowboys.

  11. 11 Eagles_Fan_in_San_Fran said at 2:53 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Did some quick research:
    — Only 73 of the 310 HOFers were elected their first year of eligibility (less than 25%).
    — Dawk was in the Top 10, so he just missed out (the other 4 that just missed were Tony Boselli, Ty Law, John Lynch and Kevin Mawae).

    So while disappointed, I’m confident he’ll get in next year.

    Now, on the other hand, TO wasn’t even in the Top 10 – he was dropped in the first cut, so he was in the 11-15 group – and this was his second year of eligibility. Plus Randy Moss becomes eligible next year. Uh-oh, TO.

  12. 12 Insomniac said at 3:01 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    According to the HoF committee, kickers are more important than safeties. The league is obviously behind the times since they don’t draft kickers in the first anymore (RIP Al Davis)!

    LT was going to be an unanimous first ballot guy. Dawkins were way more deserving of being a first ballot HoF than Taylor. I don’t think Taylor should have been a first ballot guy, there’s going to be at least 5 guys that will pass him in the sack numbers by the end of their career, Warner and TD are controversial guys, but both guys deserved to get in eventually. Warner is one of the best playoff QBs of all time, turned around two franchises out of three and was close to winning 3 Super Bowls. TD would have had the stats and the ring if he could have stayed healthy. However, what ifs shouldn’t have made up for the fact that it never happened.

  13. 13 Jamie Parker said at 10:43 PM on February 8th, 2017:

    I know I’m late, but TD does have the rings, 2 of them.

  14. 14 Media Mike said at 6:48 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    To all of the HOF voters who put in Taylor (deserved it, but not over Dawk), Andersen (deserved it, but not over Dawk), Davis (didn’t deserve it), and Warner (didn’t deserve it and one of the dumbest beings alive) over Dawk:

    F U!

    Taylor isn’t as high on the all time list of best DEs are Dawk would be for safeties. Taylor isn’t as high on the list of best DEs of he era as Dawk would be for safeties.

    Andersen was a great kicker for his era, so I almost understand it.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_yds_career.htm

    Terrell Davis is 55th on the career rushing list. He’s one spot below Chris Warren and and spot above Mike Pruitt. I’m really happy Bronco fans cried Davis into the HOF.

    Kurt Warner, in addition to be a fan fiction spouting moron, is 39th on the career passing total list. Right behind Jay Cutler. That’s certainly impressive. Kurt Warner is 60th all time in wins. Right in between such world beaters as Jim McMahon and Chris Chandler.

    There isn’t any specific reason that Dawkins should have been named on the first ballot, but he was better than 4 of the 5 folks enshrined.

    TO being left off was a joke. Faneca, Jacoby, and Mawee would also have been fine to have seen included.

    I’m just mega-insulted by Davis and Warner.

  15. 15 Fufina said at 7:10 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Problem the Hall of fame has now is that so many ‘good’ not great RB’s are already in the hall that when you compare Davis to other RB’s already in the Hall he actually has a compelling case.

    Posted this yesterday but this is the list of RB’s who have gone into the hall since the last pure safety: Dickerson, Marcus Allen, Sanders, Thurman Thomas, Emmit Smith, Faulk, Curtis Martin, Bettis, Davis, Tomlinson.

    Some of those guys were the best in their generation… others not so much.

  16. 16 Media Mike said at 7:16 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    The only bad admit on that list is Bettis. But all of those guys have better career totals than Davis. He pulled the bar downwards.

  17. 17 Patrick said at 8:21 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Bettis is like top 10 all time in rushing yards and TDs, albeit with a pretty low YPC and low receiving yards even for the era.
    Its not ludacris to put him in the Hall when he has a ring, a couple of all pros and a Man of the Year award.

  18. 18 Media Mike said at 8:25 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    When you use yards from scrimmage, a much better accounting of any RB’s contribution from the 70s forward, Bettis falls far below the other guys on that HOF list.

    Look at Bettis from a pro bowls, yards from scrimmage, total TDs, yards per carry, and average season standpoint vs. Ricky Watters, Edge James, Warrick Dunn, and Tiki Barber. He fits in with that group; and not at the top of it.

    His ring is 100% irrelevant; as that is a team accomplishment and he was a specialty down substitute on that team.

    Bettis is in the HOF due to a nickname and an overly generous accounting of Pittsburgh players by the HOF voters.

  19. 19 Media Mike said at 8:29 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Here are the RB numbers

    Ricky Watters – 10 seasons, 5 pro bowls, 14891 from scrimmage, 91 TDs, average year 1489 yards 9.1 TDs
    Bettis – 13 season, 6 pro bowls, 2 all pro, 15111 from scrimmage, 94 TDs, average year 1162 yards, 7.2 TDs
    Edge – 10 years, 4 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 15610 from scrimmage, 91 TDs, average year 1561 yards, 9.1 TDs
    Tiki – 10 years, 3 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 15632 from scrimmage, 67 TDs, average year 1563 yards, 6.7 TDs
    Dunn – 12 years, 3 pro bowls, 15306 from scrimmage, 64 TDs, average year 1275 yards, 5.3 TDs
    ____________________________________________________________________________________
    Tomlinson – 11 years, 5 pro bowls, 3 all pro , 18,456 yards from scrimmage, 162 TDs, average year 1678 yards, 14.7 TDs
    Martin – 11 years, 5 pro bowls, 1 all pro, 17430 from scrimmage, 100 TDs, average year 1584 yards, 9.1 TDs
    Faulk – 12 years, 7 pro bowls, 3 all pro, 19154 from scrimmage, 136 TDs, average year 1586 yards, 11.3 TDs
    —————————————————————————————————————————————
    Tomlinson – 11 years, 5 pro bowls, 3 all pro , 18,456 yards from scrimmage, 162 TDs, average year 1678 yards, 14.7 TDs
    Smith – 15 years, 8 pro bowls, 4 all pro, 21579 from scrimmage, 175 TDs, average year 1439 yards, 11.7 TDs
    Sanders – 10 years, 10 pro bowls, 6 all pro, 18190 from scrimmage, 109 TDs, average year 1819 yards, 10.9 TDs
    Payton – 13 years, 9 pro bowl, 5 all pro, 21264 from scrimmage, 125 TDs, average year 1635 yards, 9.6 TDs

  20. 20 Jerome_Brown said at 7:17 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Thank you! While everyone is justifiably up in arms over Morten Anderson, I am floored by Terrell Davis. That guy had 3 amazing years, that’s it! He was either pedestrian or hurt every other season of his short career. Kurt Warner led the Greatest Show on Turf and won a SB. He played in 3, yet for most of his career he was just bad. Remember him on the Giants? He had 3 great years, that’s it. I remember Artis Hicks owning Jason Taylor in a Monday Night game. Artis Hicks, people! Again, he was a good player but I would have never considered him for the HOF. Then there is Kenny Easley. All this talk about safeties but Kenny Easley was a safety. He did not even touch Dawk. What a joke.

  21. 21 Media Mike said at 7:25 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    HOF = career excellence.

    Career excellence = strong career totals vs. other guys at your position and multiple years of being in the top group of players at your position.

    That’s my HOF criteria when awarding the excellence of individual players.

  22. 22 Fufina said at 7:57 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Think there is a narrative, impact component that needs to be added to the consideration for the Hall. It is more than career longevity and raw counting stats and allpro nods. The question is could you tell the story of the NFL without needing to talk about that player.

    Take Warner – he was not a great career QB, but he not only is an background amazing story, but QB’d the greatest show on turf, one of the greatest offences in NFL history, that changed the NFL and offence expectations moving forward and won a championship.

    Then at the end of his career when over 40 he was the leading part of one of the greatest Cinderella stories is recent NFL history.

  23. 23 Media Mike said at 8:18 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    That narrative component, if placed in the wrong hands, can create a false impression of a player’s overall excellence without using the stats first.

    Warner, his personal narrative, etc. do nothing for me.

  24. 24 Jernst said at 11:56 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    This is what no one gets about the Hall of Fame. That was a very good way to put it. Could you tell the story of the NFL without needing to talk about that player? That’s completely accurate and that’s how the voters view it.

    Still that explains Kurt Warren and maybe TD as well. Still at a loss with Ken Easley and Mort. Figured you could do an NFL 75 seasons like documentary without bringing them into the conversation.

  25. 25 Jernst said at 11:51 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    And, let’s be honest…Davis only really had one AMAZING year. He had two other really good years. Rushing for 1700 or even 1500 yards like he did the two years prior to his 2k season is nothing to scoff at. But, 1538 yards like he had in 1996, thats good for the 70th best rushing total in a season ever. Good, but I don’t know if that’s AMAZING.

  26. 26 Patrick said at 8:12 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Im extremely biased as a Dane but Morten Andersen is one of the greatest kickers in NFL history and like Dawk has been disrespected because of his position. He deserved to be in the Hall, even though it sucks that it was on behalf of Dawk.

    Talk to any player, coach, scout or GM from the era about kicking and you’ll find out how extremely well respected Andersen was and in how high regards actual NFL people held him. Even though its very easy to look up career percentages and deem him useless and credit all of his many, many, many, many, many kicking records to the pure volume of his kicks because of his insanely long career.

  27. 27 Media Mike said at 7:36 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    An additional complaint about the “logic” used by HOF voters.

    If football is the ultimate team game and a Super Bowl victory is the culmination of the ultimate team effort; why the F are Super Bowls erroneously used as a HOF measuring stick? Super Bowl titles, for anything other than a head coach or greatest team of all time discussions, are the ULTIMATE cherry picked data point.

    And I reserve the right to bludgeon any person who uses that lack of a Super Bowl title to rip the Eagles or their players at any point. Immediate invitation to a critical condition.

  28. 28 Dave said at 8:38 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I find the Pro Football Hall of Fame voter’s preference on winning the Superbowl for it’s members no different than the Heisman Trophy, which should be renamed “The Quarterback or Running Back on the #1 or #2 Team in the Nation Trophy”.

  29. 29 Media Mike said at 8:40 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Agreed.

  30. 30 Jernst said at 11:43 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    It’s dumb, but the truth is it’s the hall of FAME, not the hall of the best football players. How famous the players are, how memorable they are, how quintessential they were to big moments in NFL history matters to the hall of FAME.

  31. 31 Dave said at 7:41 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    There should really be 2 football Hall of Fames. The Best Football Players Hall of Fame with zero consideration taken unit account on winning a Superbowl, and the Guys that Were on a Winning Superbowl Team Hall for Fame.

    Kurt Warner, Terrel Davis, and eventually, Eli Manning, are/will only be in the Hall of Fame because they won the Superbowl. What’s most important in the voters eyes is if a player’s team won their last three of four games in at least one year of their playing career.

    What are the odds Dawkins has to wait until Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Lynch get in? I understand Reed, but Troy and Lynch both have Superbowl wins and Dawkins doesn’t so voters will heavily skew that in their favor.

  32. 32 Media Mike said at 7:43 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Reed was a better player than Dawk. Reed is 2nd only to Lott all time with excellence at safety.

    Polamalu and Lynch aren’t fit to eat Dawk’s fromunda cheese on a stale ritz cracker.

  33. 33 Patrick said at 8:06 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Rod Woodson was pretty impactful as well, and while he played a lot of corner, Charles Woodson was incredible too. I do feel like Dawk was the better physical presence and overall better runstopper without sacrificing coverage abilities, and not leaving much behind in the playmaking department although Rod, Charles and Reed almost doubles Dawks interceptions. To be fair, Woodson times 2 can also hang with Dawks FF, FR and sack numbers.

    Rod Woodson did become a first ballot Hall of Famer, Ed Reed will probably do the same. Charles Woodson should probably do the same, but I dont know if he will.

    Rodney Harrison has great stats, very similar to Dawk, but lacking tremendously in the turnover department compared, especially FF and FR. Polumalu has a huge name, which is actually kinda odd considering his stats aren’t THAT great. Obviously a great player and its not like he has no numbers to back him up, but not comparable to Dawk. John Lynch is similar to Rodney Harrison, just with slightly lower numbers, albeit I feel like he was the best run stopper of all the mentioned.

    Dawkins belongs in the hall and anything else would be criminal. He probably belongs in as a first ballot, but the thing is that theres so many good players, not only at his position, but at other more valued positions, and while Dawk is one of the biggest names in Philly sports history, he apparently doesn’t have the national name of the guaranteed first ballot guys like Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher and some of the offensive players. Honestly, Dawkins might end up having to wait which is beyond disrespectful taking into account his leadership and being an overall great human being.

  34. 34 Media Mike said at 8:26 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Good names. I’d still put Dawk over Charles Woodson and half of Rod’s career was at CB, so he’s a tad different.

  35. 35 Patrick said at 8:29 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yeah, both Woodsons had loads of snaps as corners which bump up their INTs. They’re both great players though, and their respective fanbase might put them over Dawk and we couldn’t really be mad at that.

    The fact that Rod was first ballot should really make the case for Dawk as one too though, but in the end it depends on the class.

  36. 36 xmbk said at 8:37 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Reed was a better ball hawk. Dawk was better at everything else.

  37. 37 Media Mike said at 8:40 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I’ll ride or die all day with Dawk, but I consider Reed a transcendent player. I screamed some extremely foul language at the top of my lungs when the Ravens stole Reed two picks in front of us in 2002’s draft. Could you imagine this team with Reed and Dawk long term?

  38. 38 Jerome_Brown said at 8:44 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I thought Reed was better too but when I see the stats, not so much. He was definitely more of a ball hawk but Dawkins has twice the tackles, 4x the sacks, and 3x the FF. All around, at least statistically, Dawk was better. Regardless, he is not competing against Reed this year which is why this is a travesty.

  39. 39 Jernst said at 11:40 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Reed was AMAZING at 1 thing. Off the charts amazing at that one thing. Dawkins was better than almost everyone else at every other part of the job except the one area Reed blows everyone out of the water in.

  40. 40 Corry said at 10:26 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I don’t know that Reed was the better player, you can make the argument certainly, but I think Dawk was a more complete player. Dawk could cover the slot, come down and be the 8th man in the box, rush the passer, AND play center field. Reed was your classic deep man and excellent at what he was asked to do, but Dawk could do it all.

  41. 41 Jernst said at 11:39 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Exactly. Reed was the best centerfielder of all time. No question. But, he also ONLY did that one thing. Dawk could do things that Reed could never have dreamed of.

  42. 42 ChoTime said at 10:38 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Crazy talk. Polamalu dominated games at his peak.

  43. 43 Media Mike said at 10:45 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    ov-er-rat-ed

    frequently missed tackles due to running 100 mph with a bad angle and was often toasted in coverage. Typical Pittsburgh fluff job.

    I’m not saying he’s not a HOF player, but Dawk if FAR superior.

  44. 44 GENETiC-FREAK said at 3:21 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Ah finally someone sees Polamalu as overrated. Pass coverage was bad. Was a flying missle mahority of the game making fans go ooh ahh n thinking he was the best.

  45. 45 xmbk said at 8:34 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    This dishonors the hall of fame more than it does Dawk.

  46. 46 Media Mike said at 8:37 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Plus the continued exclusion of TO.

  47. 47 Patrick said at 8:49 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    The only knock on his stats is that both him and Moss were pretty low reception wise, which is ridiculous when they’re both top 15 with TO in top 5. And even more ridiculous when they’re 2 and 3 in yards and touchdowns solely behind Jerry Rice who is literally in the conversation as the GOAT of all time similar and has stats that like Gretzky probably won’t be broken.

    Shouldn’t that count as a PRO of TO and Moss? That they needed fewer receptions to put up numbers? Its just plain wrong, theres no discussion.

    Im actually really interested to see if they put in Moss the first time or they screw him too.

  48. 48 Media Mike said at 8:51 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yeah, the WR order has been criminal.

  49. 49 Patrick said at 8:56 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I’m legitimately not sure they dont screw Moss too. Its not like he was completely without controversy and we know they dont like putting in guys without rings.

    If the 2 guys who actually lead the NFL when you discount the freak of nature that is Jerry Rice, can’t get in first ballot, then the system is fucked up.

    I’d actually rather see them narrow down the list position by position of anyone deserving of the hall of fame. If theres nobody at a position, no-one gets in. If theres one, that guy gets in. If theres more, a committee puts in the best one. Maybe you can have a wildcard or 2 in case you end up with a situation like Brady and Manning retiring at the same time and both of them obviously being first ballot HoF.

  50. 50 Jerome_Brown said at 9:01 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I know the Pro Bowl voting is almost as flawed as HOF voting but when the disparity is this large, something is wrong:

    Pro Bowls:

    Brian Dawkins – 9
    Jason Taylor – 6
    Terrell Davis – 3!!!!
    Kurt Warner – 4
    Morten Anderson – 3!!!
    Kenny Easley – 4
    LT – 5 (and I am not arguing this one)

    He just does not have the ring…but neither does LT, Jason Taylor, Morten Anderson, or Kenny Easley.

  51. 51 Media Mike said at 9:16 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    The flaw in the pro bowl voting is that too many guys make it. So if you’re not making it; that’s not the “flaw!”

  52. 52 Anders said at 4:58 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I know its not everything but Andersen made two all decade teams

  53. 53 Media Mike said at 9:55 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Just for giggles
    Player A – 2001- 2169 from scrimmage / 10 TD, 2002 – 2287 / 24. 2003 – 2110 / 27. 2004 (in 8 games) 1079 / 15.
    Player B – 1995 -1485 / 8. 1996 – 1845 / 15. 1997 – 2037 / 15. 1998 – 2225 / 23.

    Player A is Priest Holmes. Player B is Terrell Davis.

    Anybody want to honestly make a case that Priest Homes’s 4* (3.5 actually) year run of 7645 yards from scrimmage / 76 TD is any better or worse than Davis going 7592 / 61 TDs?

  54. 54 Jernst said at 11:35 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Exactly neither belong in the hall. Davis had the benefit of being on the “it” team of the late 90’s that got all the NFL Films coverage and made it to the Super Bowl in back to back years. That’s the only difference.

  55. 55 Dave said at 12:04 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Davis also joined the media after retirement and made a lot of friends. He seems like the ultimate good guy who the media gives a break because they all know him. If Davis took the Marvin Harrison stance of avoiding the media at all costs, I doubt he gets in.

  56. 56 Jernst said at 12:34 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I think the Marvin Harrison stance of murdering a guy in Philadelphia is gonna work against him just as much as his media silence

  57. 57 Dave said at 1:08 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Marvin was inducted into the HOF last year.

  58. 58 Corry said at 10:23 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I don’t understand Terrell Davis and Kurt Warner making it in. Davis and Warner had great seasons in the NFL and super bowl wins, but they don’t have the careers that others have had. I get that they’re really good players in those years, but Hall of Fame worthy?

    I have no argument against LT or even Taylor really. Morten Andersen…just…what?

  59. 59 ChoTime said at 10:36 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    TD and KW were probably the best players in the NFL at their height. Quality vs quantity argument.

    Morten Andersen… quantity vs quality? A retro pick? don’t know anything about kickers myself.

  60. 60 Corry said at 10:50 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I can accept that argument for TD. I don’t think I can with Warner. He was VERY good when he was at his best, but I still don’t think he’s Hall worthy.

  61. 61 Jerome_Brown said at 11:04 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Ezekiel Elliott was the best RB in the NFL this year. If he retired tomorrow, should he make the HOF? TD was the best for one season. He had 3 really good years but only one you could call him the best. In the other years, he wasn’t the best. Barry Sanders was. It wasn’t close. Kurt Warner, the same. In one season you could argue the best. The other 3, he was competing against Brett Favre and Peyton Manning. He wasn’t close to the best. Then there is the whole, “level of talent around them” argument. How many “nobody” backs came after TD to the Broncos and looked almost as good? Several. Who was Kurt throwing to? Oh yeah, Isaac Bruce (HOF finalist) and Torry Holt (HOF), then Larry Fitzgerald (will be in HOF). When he had average talent around him, he was average, at best.

    As to Morten, yes, I guess quantity is the argument but I have watched a lot of football. He was NEVER the best in any particular season. Still, if quantity is the argument, Dawkins played a lifetime for the type of player and position.

  62. 62 iceberg584 said at 11:09 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I think that Warner coming back from the dead and bringing the Cardinals, a traditionally losing franchise, to the edge of a Super Bowl title gets him over the top.

  63. 63 Jernst said at 11:33 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    When Warner had average talent around him he was atrocious. 8-23 as a starter from 2002-2006.

  64. 64 Patrick said at 11:52 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    Morten Andersen was literally the kicker on 2 all decade teams.

    Yeah, never the best kicker. That measly points record is pure volume. Its not like he had a leg and holds the record for most 50+ kicks made overall, in a season AND in a single game. Wait, he does.

  65. 65 Jernst said at 12:07 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Only problem with mort is his atrocious kicking percentage. 62% on all kicks over 39 yards. And, that’s not from attempting a bunch of 55+ yarders. On kicks from 40-49 yards out he was 66%, from 50 and up 46%. Conversely, someone like Vinatieri is 81% on FGs over 39 yards, 67% on FGs over 50.

    In fact, since all his records are overall number stats like total FGs made, total 50+ FGs made, etc … I think it’s pretty easy to make the argument that his records are pure volume.

  66. 66 Patrick said at 12:11 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    That argument could also be made for Jerry Rice who literally played 5 more seasons than Owens and Moss.

    It does not take anything away from the production, that a player was able to maintain an incredible level of play longer than other players, its actually the opposite. Especially at a position like Kicker, where the mental aspect is huge and we literally see kickers loose their confidence and leave the league in weeks. Remember when Blair Walsh and Greg the Leg were rookie kickers and basically the best in the league. Walsh was cut and Zuerlein is not particularly safe from what im reading.

  67. 67 Jernst said at 12:18 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    No it absolutely cannot be made for Jerry Rice. Sure he has better overall stats like career yards and receptions because he played longer. That’ll happen. But, Jerry wasn’t a guy who had 50 catches a year for 700 yards for 30 years. He also led the league in receiving years in 6 separate seasons, led the league in TD recs 6 separate seasons, went over 1000 yards receiving 14 times including an absurd 11 times in a row. Compare that to Morten Anderson who, in a 25 year career led the league in made FGs in only 1 of those season with 28 and led the league in FG% in only 1 out of his 25 seasons. It’s actually tough to make a case that in any of his 25 seasons he was the best kicker in the league. Where as Jerry Rice was clearly the best WR in the league without question for at least 10 of his playing seasons.

  68. 68 Jernst said at 12:31 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Also let’s look at the idea that Rice playing an additional 5 years is the difference between he and Moss/TO:

    Total TDs:
    Rice – 208 (21 in last 5 years)
    Moss – 157
    TO – 156

    You’d have to erase Rices last 10 years in the league before Moss and TO beat him out.

    Receptions
    Rice – 1549
    Moss – 982
    TO – 1078

    You’d have to erase Rices last 9 years in the league before either Moss or TO beat him

    Yards
    Rice – 22895
    TO – 15934
    Moss – 15292

    Again, need to erase his last 9 years in the league to make it close.

    Rice played 5 more seasons than TO and 4 more seasons than Moss.

  69. 69 wee2424 said at 5:43 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Cody Parker.

  70. 70 Jernst said at 12:11 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Morts best ever FG percentage for a season ranks 131st all time. His career FG percentage ranks him 51st all time.

  71. 71 Anders said at 2:36 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    He also holds or did hold most 50+ yards fgs in career, season and games.

    Some of his records are just not for playing in the most games in the nfl.

    Remember he was drafted before Reggie white. Comparing fg% from almost 40 years ago is stupid

  72. 72 ChoTime said at 6:10 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Ezekiel Elliot looked good for one season, during an era when RBs aren’t the focal points of either offenses (so there isn’t much competition for him) and defenses (because it’s known that the passing game is much more damaging) behind the best line in the league. I don’t think he belongs in this argument.

    I think the argument that Barry Sanders may have been better than TD actually shows the plane that TD was operating on. Among the very best and most devastating weapons to play the position. Therefore deserving to be in the hall.

    On to Warner:
    I’m not going to argue that he had a better career than Peyton and Favre, but he was definitely operating on their level at that time. He had good players around him, but so did most QBs who put up top numbers. Peyton had just as much talent around him, and Favre’s supporting cast wasn’t too crappy, either.

    Warner was a video game QB when he was on. Like A-Rod.

  73. 73 Jernst said at 11:31 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I agree. Davis especially. He only had 3 really good years. After his injury he was nonfunctional. Those three years were really good. But, I don’t think they were otherworldly enough to get him into the hall.

    Kurt I can make a better case for. People forget that even though he started late, he still ended up having a 12 year career. The numbers that he put up with those St Louis teams were unheard of at the time. And, he continued to be a great QB until the end getting the Cardinals back to the Super Bowl. The thing that kills it for me though is the 5 year span from 2002-2006 where he went 8-23 as a starter with 27 TDs and 30 INT. Get out of here. How can you have a span of 5 years in the middle of your career where you’re literally atrocious and still be a HOFer. The problem with Kurt is that he was only ever amazing when he had a ridiculously good supporting cast. Whenever he lacked multiple HOFers around him he was down right shitty.

  74. 74 Insomniac said at 1:57 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I wouldn’t call him shitty, he was mediocre during those middle years. He was brought in to groom Eli when he was with the Giants and to some extent Leinart too when he was supposedly a stopgap for the Cardinals. He was injury prone and a late bloomer so people gave up on him really easily. Yea he had good talent at WR for most of his great years, there’s no denying that. But what choice did he have? It’s not like he forced a trade to a team that he thought would be good. He was a UDFA that made the Rams team. I doubt many teams believed in him anymore after his injury history and his brief time with the Giants. To blame him for talent around him that he didn’t ask for is rather silly. It’s not like he was Lebron or something. He took some bad teams and turned them around.

    The funky thing with Warner is that he could have been 3-0 and 0-3 in his Super Bowl appearances. He edged out the Titans by an inch. He lost to the Cheatriots after Vinatieri booted his second win away. He almost came back against the Steelers (who were the better team) after throwing a pick 6. Albeit, you can also blame Warner for contributing to those loses by turning the ball over at crucial times.

  75. 75 scratcherk said at 11:34 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    I think Anderson has the points record?

  76. 76 Patrick said at 11:58 AM on February 5th, 2017:

    He does, until Vinatieri breaks it and basically owns all the records for kicking from 50+ yards because of his consistency in being able to make them. Very few kickers were as trusted from that range for that long.

  77. 77 P_P_K said at 12:12 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Denied? It’s NE that will be denied!
    Julio Jones has 150 yds receiving and three tds. Falcons 34 Pats 24.

  78. 78 Dave said at 1:13 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Eric Rowe can make Howie eat crow big-time if he plays well against Julio.

  79. 79 Insomniac said at 1:22 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Hell would freeze over thrice if Rowe does well against Julio alone.

  80. 80 P_P_K said at 1:45 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Agreed, but I don’t see that happening. I think Julio is going to run wild through the NE secondary, which includes our ol’ friend, Patrick Chung.

  81. 81 since1961 said at 2:15 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    You need to finger our DC, who wants only feisty CBs. If Jim wanted to keep him, you think Howie would have said “no, I gotta get a conditional 4th from a team likely to be drafting in the 30’s to reduce our CB depth”?

  82. 82 Insomniac said at 1:05 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    https://twitter.com/profootballtalk/status/828265148993388544

    Belichick will have the interns pinky by tonight.

  83. 83 Dragon_Eagle said at 4:29 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Photo has been released. Odds are, the Empire knows the Atlanta playbook.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4cd5d2a7e04a89f02f099cbf83961dada23eee92a69194f548c5c6b4857a5a3b.jpg

  84. 84 wee2424 said at 5:30 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    You are the winner of the internet today.

  85. 85 ChoTime said at 5:55 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Heh. Man, that thing looks awesome almost thirty years later.

  86. 86 CrackSammich said at 6:45 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Probably from the remaster.

  87. 87 TXEaglesFan said at 1:35 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Off topic…but did anybody see the video of Cousins shoving a volunteer ref at a Charity flag football game? Watch the video, this wasn’t some silly shenanigans. Quite a scumbag move.

  88. 88 Dave said at 2:05 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    link?

  89. 89 TXEaglesFan said at 3:04 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    http://uproxx.com/sports/kirk-cousins-shoves-flag-football-referee/

  90. 90 GordonGekko said at 2:05 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Not surprised that Dawk didn’t get in because they are only have a few safeties in the HOF and Dawk also played at the same time as other former greats Reed and Palomu from PITT. T.O. Should be in without question but he’s not because he’s a nutjob that sold all his QBs down the river. He’s an A S S HOLE.

  91. 91 ChoTime said at 9:05 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    So if you’re an A-hole you can’t be in the pro football hall of fame, but you can be the President of the United States.

  92. 92 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:17 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Sounds completely logical

  93. 93 GordonGekko said at 9:41 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    The A-Hole TO should be in and I’m glad the A-Hole Trump won too. Get over it, liberal loser.

  94. 94 Dragon_Eagle said at 6:31 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Go Falcons.

  95. 95 daveH said at 6:46 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Go Pats

  96. 96 CrackSammich said at 6:48 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Anyone else stuck watching the game not with friends?

    I’m at work, but I wouldn’t say I’m working. I’ve got one TV set to the game and two small ones on the puppy bowl.

  97. 97 Dragon_Eagle said at 6:52 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    That’s how one avoids getting flagged for roughing the Tom Brady. Drive his own OL into him.

  98. 98 CrackSammich said at 7:11 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I guess we have to deal with more Media Mike complaints about Cam’s commercial… What a thug, right?

  99. 99 BobSmith77 said at 7:21 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    TD was awesome at his peak but he has no business in the HOF. You don’t put in players who were really only great for a 3 or 4 year stretch.

  100. 100 BobSmith77 said at 7:27 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Those mid-80s Seahawks teams had some really great talent but never could seem to get out of their own way including their QB (Dave Krieg)

  101. 101 Insomniac said at 7:28 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Patrick Chung made a play. Oh wow.

  102. 102 Dragon_Eagle said at 7:29 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    And then gave up the TD. All is back to normal.

  103. 103 A Roy said at 7:29 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Chung!!!

  104. 104 Dragon_Eagle said at 7:37 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I realize, the Atlanta offense will get all the attention. But the MVP so far is the entire Falcons defense. They are playing well.

  105. 105 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 7:40 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    They have really good team speed on Defense. They have been flying around all post seasons

  106. 106 Insomniac said at 7:43 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Too many flags. Like one too many.

  107. 107 Insomniac said at 7:45 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

  108. 108 CrackSammich said at 7:45 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    oof. Nobody was even covering Edleman. Terrible decision by Brady.

  109. 109 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 7:50 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    He’s been getting hit every other play

  110. 110 CrackSammich said at 7:51 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Couldn’t happen to a better guy.

  111. 111 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 7:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Hit again lol

  112. 112 BobSmith77 said at 7:50 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Pick 6 was the game. No Gronk and not enough weapons for the Pats

    Like the good ole days when the NFC team would whoop the AFC team with a commanding lead by half time

  113. 113 Insomniac said at 7:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Brady is getting hit. He doesn’t like that at all.

  114. 114 CrackSammich said at 7:54 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Blah. Bennett catches passes not even throw to him. Compare that to our guys.

  115. 115 Insomniac said at 7:54 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Our guys would have batted the ball into a defenders hands for a pick 6.

  116. 116 Dragon_Eagle said at 7:56 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    You give them way too much credit. Our guys would never have turned their head since they never expect the ball anyway. At best it would have bounced of a surprised Ags helmet for a pick 6.

  117. 117 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 7:56 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I think DGB is the guy who lets the ball hit him in the facemask

  118. 118 BobSmith77 said at 7:59 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Been such a blah game so far and doesn’t have a good MVP candidate either yet.

    Commercials haven’t been much better.

  119. 119 CrackSammich said at 8:02 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    You must have missed the commercial where Coke ended racism. Air BnB would have ended it, but Coke already did.

  120. 120 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:02 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I missed that one :(.

  121. 121 Dragon_Eagle said at 8:03 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    There was a Christopher Walken commercial. Always good.

  122. 122 Mitchell said at 8:12 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Eric Rowe.

  123. 123 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:05 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    https://twitter.com/CTowersCBS/status/828406891546042369

  124. 124 CrackSammich said at 8:13 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Lumber 84 commercial- There’s gotta be an easier way to source your lumber than that, guys.

  125. 125 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:28 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I miss the SB shows with more than 1 performer

  126. 126 daveH said at 8:30 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    PA amber alert

  127. 127 daveH said at 8:34 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    No shot that Atlanta lets this slip away …Pats look wiped out and over matched. .. legarret Blunt may never see the field again

  128. 128 Dragon_Eagle said at 8:38 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    How many ex-Eagles are out there? I count 3: Rowe, Chung, and Lewis. Am I missing anyone?

  129. 129 daveH said at 8:50 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Amendola

  130. 130 CrackSammich said at 8:38 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    God dammit, Rowe.

  131. 131 Insomniac said at 8:39 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    They should have went deep, Rowe would have been torched.

  132. 132 CrackSammich said at 8:42 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    It looked like Julio had a step on his guy down the right sideline.

  133. 133 Insomniac said at 8:46 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I didn’t know our WRs were playing for the Patriots today.

  134. 134 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:48 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    They have had problems with drops at times this year

  135. 135 Insomniac said at 8:50 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Are you sure that’s not Agholor and Matthews just wearing foundation out there?

  136. 136 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:50 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yep… They lined up correctly didn’t they?

  137. 137 Insomniac said at 8:51 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Oh right..you have a point now.

  138. 138 daveH said at 8:51 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    No clear mvp so far
    … giving it to Ryan wud be soooooo lame

  139. 139 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:52 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Alford?

  140. 140 Insomniac said at 8:52 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    When in doubt give it to the guy with the pick 6.

  141. 141 CrackSammich said at 8:52 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Only other option would be the guy who got the pick 6. But if it’s a comeback, no question that it’s not Brady.

  142. 142 daveH said at 9:37 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Falcons D Line

  143. 143 CrackSammich said at 8:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Nope. It’s Matt Ryan.

  144. 144 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:52 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    LOL Malcolm Butler got ate up with that move.

  145. 145 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Tevin Coleman and Freeman. Thats a nasty RB roatation

  146. 146 Insomniac said at 8:55 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Would have to get Freeman if he leaves for FA.

  147. 147 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 8:59 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    We should be able to find a back in this draft(Marlon mack) and we still have Smallwood and Marshall. I hope we dont need to dip into FA for a RB

  148. 148 Insomniac said at 9:06 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Ehh maybe Smallwood could grow but Marshall is always going to be a complementary piece. I don’t really want to take a RB unless it’s the top 3 guys this year. I think there’s better value in later round RBs/WRs than RBs this year.

  149. 149 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:16 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Lots of good RBs in this draft. No need to take one in the first. I think they will find a starter if they want one.

    I think WR drops off after Williams/Davis and again after Ross

  150. 150 Insomniac said at 9:25 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Going to disagree with you on that. The RB class got less deep when some guys didn’t declare. A lot of complementary RBs are there but none of them have starter potential after Mixon + Kamara.

  151. 151 ChoTime said at 9:08 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    So, kinda looks like Atlanta’s going to win. Does anybody care?

    Once Dallas got eliminated (which is good), I didn’t really have any other rooting interests here. I don’t dislike the Patriots particularly.

  152. 152 Dragon_Eagle said at 9:08 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I care to the extent that the Patriots lose.

  153. 153 Insomniac said at 9:09 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yes. I hate the Patriots.

  154. 154 Insomniac said at 9:13 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhDtFnpNOfE

    How Belichick must feel right now.

  155. 155 Dragon_Eagle said at 9:17 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Falcons just blew a chance to put this completely away with that field position.

  156. 156 CrackSammich said at 9:21 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    lol @ Chung.

  157. 157 CrackSammich said at 9:22 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Did he just kick that receiver to tag him down?

  158. 158 Insomniac said at 9:28 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Grady Jarrett MVP.

  159. 159 Dragon_Eagle said at 9:31 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Maybe. Good suggestion.

  160. 160 CrackSammich said at 9:38 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    And we have a game.

  161. 161 Insomniac said at 9:43 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Uh oh..

  162. 162 CrackSammich said at 9:48 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Holy shit, Julio.

  163. 163 Dragon_Eagle said at 9:48 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Wow, Julio.

  164. 164 Insomniac said at 9:49 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I want that guy.

  165. 165 Dragon_Eagle said at 9:51 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Run ball. Eat Clock. Kick Figgie.

    And as I type that you take a stupid, stupid, McNabb-worthy sack. Bonehead.

  166. 166 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 9:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    The one thing they couldnt do

  167. 167 scratcherk said at 9:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    That and a hold. Oh wait…

  168. 168 scratcherk said at 9:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Choke job

  169. 169 scratcherk said at 9:58 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Well this is our blueprint friends. Get your franchise qb, keep putting pieces around him and you’ll get your shot (likely against the patriots)

  170. 170 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 10:00 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    ALT trying hard to not win

  171. 171 Insomniac said at 10:01 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I think they’re going to lose.

  172. 172 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 10:02 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    They deserve too

  173. 173 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:04 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Have we had an OT Superbowl before?

  174. 174 Insomniac said at 10:05 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    We’re about to find out

  175. 175 Insomniac said at 10:06 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Holy shit

  176. 176 Insomniac said at 10:08 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I wonder if Jake Matthews and Jalen Collins are dead men in Atlanta?

  177. 177 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:09 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Why are you bothering to clock it?

  178. 178 Insomniac said at 10:15 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    How to beat Brady, lead 45-0 by 3rd quarter.

  179. 179 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 10:23 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Or stop playing not to lose

  180. 180 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:23 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Dammit.

  181. 181 Insomniac said at 10:25 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    RIP Falcons.

  182. 182 ChoTime said at 10:25 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Shit, what happened? I didn’t even watch the 2nd half.

  183. 183 Insomniac said at 10:25 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    The comeback and choke of a lifetime.

  184. 184 Will Ft. Daft Punk said at 10:26 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Turned into the Eagles

  185. 185 CrackSammich said at 10:28 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I hate these overtime rules. College football or even soccer’s overtime rules should be the guide.

  186. 186 Dave said at 10:29 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Matt Ryan will go down with one of the biggest choke artists in NFL history.

  187. 187 Insomniac said at 10:32 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    That entire team choked.

  188. 188 Dave said at 10:33 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Their defense looked like ours under Chip. They were on the field too long.

  189. 189 Insomniac said at 10:35 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    The holding calls eventually stopped and turned into actual gains. Doesn’t help that the offense scored too fast and then choked away their last chance of getting any points.

  190. 190 anon said at 12:55 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    Dan Quinn has to look at himself hard in the mirror and wonder if he should hire a coordinator. The last 2 quarters were terrible.

  191. 191 BobSmith77 said at 10:36 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    This wasn’t about Ryan choking as much as arguably the greatest NFL player & team doing their thing in the 2nd half.

  192. 192 Dave said at 10:38 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    The Pats can’t win without Ryan choking.

  193. 193 BobSmith77 said at 10:30 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Greatest 2nd half of a Super Bowl ever. Brady is the greatest ever and this game just ended that debate.

  194. 194 Ark87 said at 10:32 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yeah, he was always up there, but he just took everyone else out of the conversation

  195. 195 CrackSammich said at 10:32 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    but is he elite? makes u think

  196. 196 BobSmith77 said at 10:33 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Elite?

  197. 197 Dave said at 10:33 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    He’s still a cheating asshole though. No amount of Superbowl wins will change that.

  198. 198 ChoTime said at 10:41 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Maybe tells you something about the mindset of someone obsessed with winning?

  199. 199 Dave said at 10:46 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    No, it just tells me he’s a cheater and that rules don’t apply to him.

  200. 200 aron said at 11:28 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    or cheating to win

  201. 201 Insomniac said at 10:36 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    He’s going to play for another 3-4 years too supposedly. Damn.

  202. 202 BobSmith77 said at 10:38 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yup. Rumor is he wants to play to 44 or 45.

    Arguably might do it too. He lives like a Franciscan monk who is a zealot when it comes to diet, exercise, and training.

    After this, I would argue he is the one, if not, the greatest professional athlete in US history. Nobody has done what he has done at his age.

  203. 203 Insomniac said at 10:45 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    He undoubtedly is. I think age is going to catch up to his arm eventually but Brady is a guy who can reinvent himself. He even ran for a damn first down at his age.

  204. 204 BobSmith77 said at 10:50 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    4-game suspension was the best thing that could have happened to Brady this year.

    Pats still went 3-1, he avoided a month of wear and tear, and was fresh for the playoffs especially with the bye & 2 weeks between the Conference Game and Super Bowl.

  205. 205 anon said at 12:54 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    Serenea Williams had a good week last week.

  206. 206 A Roy said at 3:19 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    See George Blanda.

  207. 207 GordonGekko said at 11:19 AM on March 10th, 2017:

    DICKHEAD LOSER

  208. 208 PacificPurl said at 4:15 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    Gag. Hurl.

  209. 209 BobSmith77 said at 10:32 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Ate some major crow and the betters who took the Pats at 12-1 entering the 2nd half made some serious money.

  210. 210 scratcherk said at 10:34 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Second down pass by Atlanta with chance to ice the game had to be worst playcall ever

  211. 211 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:38 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Nah. It was aggressive and, yes, should have been run-ball, eat-clock. However, Matty Ice needs to keep his cool and throw it away in that situation. Don’t take the sack.

    And, off the top of my head, Doug’s lateral call against the Cowboys this season was worse.

  212. 212 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:40 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    And Seattle calling pass on the goal line in the Superbowl, when the Pats had no answer for Marshawn Lynch.

  213. 213 Insomniac said at 10:40 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yup should have tossed it away but who knows if Jake Matthews would have held the next play? The sequence of every worst possible scenario happened on that drive.

  214. 214 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:42 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    It did. That sequence changed the game. Pats made plays, Falcons made mistakes. But we’ve seen worse play calls.

  215. 215 FairOaks said at 1:07 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    Yeah, you have to trust your QB to not do the one thing he really can’t do — he’s got to throw that one away. Cannot take the sack. They were still in FG range, barely, but then if anything else goes wrong (hold) you are screwed.

    The lateral call was probably a worse play call (though it only risked losing a few yards instead of 12, and would keep the clock rolling). But really, if Doug had just gone ahead and kicked the field goal that would have been a wash. So to me the (by far) worst play call was the decision to punt on the next play.

    But it was really just about the same situation — the game was in hand with a FG, and the team was within FG range, so boring play calls from there on out probably win the game. The Falcons today and the Eagles earlier in the year made riskier play calls than necessary, and paid.

  216. 216 aron said at 11:26 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    it will rank right up there, that coach will kick himself from now on

  217. 217 Dave said at 10:36 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Eric Rowe, Superbowl champion.

  218. 218 Insomniac said at 10:38 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Added to the list with Evan Mathis.

  219. 219 Dave said at 10:39 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    But at least we get a 4th round pick ina couple of years. Maybe then we can sign Rowe as a free agent.

  220. 220 Insomniac said at 10:41 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Depends if Howie is still the GM and Schwartz the DC by then

  221. 221 P_P_K said at 10:45 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Patrick Chung, Superbowl champion.

  222. 222 Insomniac said at 10:46 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    2 time Super Bowl champion

  223. 223 P_P_K said at 10:49 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    You’d think his time with the Eagles would have jinxed him from repeating.

  224. 224 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:39 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Good. Season’s over. We can move on to the 2017 season. I feel its gonna be our year.

  225. 225 BobSmith77 said at 10:42 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I so wanted Brady and Belicheck to turn full ‘heel’ tonight with Brady grabbing the Lombardi Trophy out of Goddell’s hands before he was finished, hitting him with it to knock him over, and stating he was the ‘greatest ever and that everyone should be so fortunate to witness his greatness.’

  226. 226 Ark87 said at 10:43 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Jumping up on the stage with a folding chair, that would make it the best

  227. 227 BobSmith77 said at 10:46 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    That would have worked well too. Smashed Goddell in the face while he was mid-speech, knock him out cold, and then picked up the Lombardi Trophy to say he was glad Goddell brought back what rightfully belonged to him while going on a ‘heel’ tirade speech.

  228. 228 Dragon_Eagle said at 10:43 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Kraft just gave the middle finger to Goodell.

  229. 229 BobSmith77 said at 10:47 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Yup.

  230. 230 Ark87 said at 10:48 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    Dorenbos sighting, chilling with Belichick …odd

  231. 231 CrackSammich said at 10:53 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    You couldn’t pay me enough to get me to talk to a reporter after a loss like that.

  232. 232 ChoTime said at 11:03 PM on February 5th, 2017:

    I can already imagine an anti-Cam narrative shaping up somehow.

  233. 233 daveH said at 12:39 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    Cam was sulking w 6 minutes to go. . Cam can never ever evet hold bradys jock strap… but ooooo he’s a big badasss

  234. 234 ChoTime said at 8:17 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    I think Brady won.

  235. 235 daveH said at 12:40 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    The footage of Blank cheering on the sidelines w 6 min to go and then his mile long face is all time

  236. 236 A_T_G said at 6:42 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    Focus on the positive guys: at least it wasn’t the Cowboys.

  237. 237 Dave said at 7:56 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    I’ll admit though if the Cowboys would’ve lost like the Falcons, I would also be satisfied.

  238. 238 Dave said at 8:06 AM on February 6th, 2017:

    https://twitter.com/MacEngelProf/status/828466700324655104

  239. 239 unhinged said at 5:28 PM on February 6th, 2017:

    One unmentioned reason why Dawk would be bypassed: The years that AR’s squad made it into the playoffs, the defense, under the scheming genius of Jim Johnson was always central to their seasonal records. AR had the reputation of an “offense guy”, but Johnson’s defense was a rock compared to a predictable and often sporadic offense. The losses that were incurred in conference championships were NOT ALWAYS (read Carolina) but usually, a very good QB making us pay for the blitzing that our D thrived on. So if the D comes up a drive short in a playoff game, the D’s best player will get stigmatized. It’s BS, and he should still get there, but that’s my take.