Eagles Finish with DT, Start on UDFAs
Posted: April 30th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 326 Comments »The Eagles spent their final draft pick on DT Elijah Qualls, a player they had shown interest in for a while. He is 6-1, 313, but don’t think of him as a fat, run-stuffer. Qualls is surprisingly athletic and a terrific fit for the Eagles scheme.
DL Elijah Qualls (Washington, 6'1", 321lbs). This is about what you can expect; good awareness, ability to disengage 1-on-1, & locate. pic.twitter.com/jQgRaLh2Bl
— My Colts Account (@MyColtsAccount) January 26, 2017
Any time that you can ask 321lbs DL Elijah Qualls to rush from the outside in a 2-pt stance, you gotta do it, right?
That said – not bad! pic.twitter.com/inU4aivuXB
— My Colts Account (@MyColtsAccount) January 26, 2017
Jim Schwartz wants DL who get to the QB. Qualls had 7.5 sacks over the last 2 years, a solid total for a big DT who wasn’t allowed to attack up the field on a regular basis. Schwartz will turn him loose in Philly.
Qualls offers depth. Beau Allen is rehabbing from an injury, but we don’t know for a fact he’ll be ready to go this season. He’s scheduled to be back in early September, but you cannot count on him. Destiny Vaeao flashed as a rookie, but the team needed depth and competition. Qualls helps in this area. If he isn’t good enough to make the team, Qualls could spend a year on the practice squad and push for a spot in 2018.
Good pick, in terms of need, value and talent.
***
UDFA signings
RB Corey Clement – Wisconsin
C Tyler Orlosky – West Virginia
WR Greg Ward – Houston
DT Winston Craig – Richmond
LB Marcus Oliver – Indiana
CB Jomal Wiltz – Iowa State
TE Billy Brown – Sheperd
CB Tre Sullivan – Sheperd
P Cameron Johnston – Ohio State
Clement is the key addition. He ran for 1,375 yards and 15 TDs this year for the Badgers. Clement is 5-10, 220 and has the potential to be a good NFL RB. The problem is that he’s not special in any way. Ran 4.68, which is average speed for his size. Had a 28.5 VJ, which shows a lack of explosiveness. Was better at his Pro Day, running 4.59 and jumping 32 inches.
There are some character concerns and some durability issues that affected his value, but he is a terrific UDFA signing. Clement gives the Eagles a talented RB who was highly productive in one of the best conferences in college football.
Clement might get cut or he might make the roster and show the Eagles that he deserves reps, not just a roster spot.
Ward is an interesting addition. He had a great season playing QB for the Cougars, but will move to WR in the NFL. Ward is a high character player who did everything in his power to get his team to the national title game. Ward is a good athlete, and is the kind of competitive, athletic player Joe Douglas wants fighting for a roster spot.
I’ll write more on the UDFAs on Sunday.
_
Tommy
In my honest and humble opinion the Eagles should really try hard trading for CB Kyle Fuller now after the draft, especially since our short term situation at CB is still suspect.
Also the Bears have reportedly declined Fuller’s 5th year option which means he could be had for cheap.
Personally I’d trade Kendricks for Fuller straight up in a heartbeat even if it means just another one year rental.
What’s your take?!
I’ve been hearing people here beat the drum for Fuller for a good month now. Why is he the new Urlacherzzz? And if he’s so good, why would the Bears be willing to trade him?
He’s not Urlacherzzz, but arguably better than any CB on our roster who’s currently healthy.
That’s not saying much. We have Mills of the 7th round, the CFL’s finest, the best CB in the draft that won’t be healthy Week 1, and the our third or forth favorite 3rd round corner. I see no reason to waste assets simply because there’s someone better than that heap when we’d only get an expiring contract in return. The plan is to let these corners grow and become something, which is not part of the plan with Fuller. I wouldn’t offer more than a conditional 7th for a player they clearly don’t want.
It would be a short term / bandaid solution until Sidney is returning back at full health and until the Eagles could find out what they really have with Douglas.
Eagles unwanted for Bears unwanted.
If Kendricks can get a 5th from someone else, he’s worth more than an underperforming CB on his last year of his first contract in a year in which we have about 20 other contracts expiring.
Can Kendricks really net a 5th rounder?! The own fans tend to overvalue their own players most of the time…
If he can’t net that, why would he net Fuller?
Because Fuller is in his last year of his rookie deal with the Bears obviously not planning with him long term.
Why would the Bears bother when trading for Kendricks has significant cap hit?
If they believe he can get to the QB for them and be a productive player in their scheme, the contract is fairly reasonable. If they don’t, it’s a non-starter. All depends on what they see on tape and how they believe he fits in.
I’d absolutely take the 5th, but we’ll have to see what goes on.
A few folks have been saying that Howie is up to some massive 2019 comp pick games.
Adding Fuller to Alshon, Jernigan, Matthews, and Warmack gives you a big list of guys who are going to sign elsewhere for potentially large deals in 2018. That “could” return multiple mid-round comp picks.
Fuller, also in theory, would be able to keep Jones’s seat warm for a year before Jones is ready for a return to full duty in 2018.
I’m generally not down with that plan in full as I’d like to see some top performing talent retained and some not to be here talent traded away to get some 2018 picks.
Yes! Yes yes yes on Fuller. He has the traits seemingly favoured by Schwartz. And he did flash his rookie year and the year after. High ceiling dude who for some reason has fallen off. Far as I know he is healthy now. Lets get him cheap and throw him in the mix on a one year rookie deal.
That’s positive on the salary front as well.
Hell yeah!
quick FYI; added Zurich, Vaduz (cool in a sleep way), Salzburg, and Vienna to the life list of cities visited on the trip. Paris, Lucerne, and Munich were all as great a remembered from prior trips.
I couldn’t go beer hunting in a premium manner due to supervisory demands, but we were in Munich for the Bayern / Real Campions league match; cool scene to walk through in the no car parts of Munich.
If they wanted to trade him, wouldn’t he be more valuable with the 5th year locked up?
No. It’s a fully guaranteed year. Brandin Cooks option year was $8.5 mil.
Ah, okay.
In addition to the 8 players listed above, QB Dane Evans(Tulsa) and WR Keevan Lucas(Tulsa) will be tryout players at the Eagles’ rookie mini-camp.
VERY skimpy on the RBs in total; hopefully they’re ready to get a few veteran free agents to play for bargain basement prices.
Teams typically bring 6 RBs to camp, sometimes 5. With Marshall being moved to WR, right now the Eagles have 5 with Sproles/Smallwood/Watson/Pumphrey/Clement. I’m pretty confident they’ll add another RB option at some point.
Press Taylor got that front office pull!
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/roster.html
Baring a few UDFA / on the street old heads; here is the roster.
I’m excited to see who steps up, who gets told to get to steppin, and how we address the remaining gaps in the 2018 off season.
What do you consider a gap?
Long term WR1, Long term RB1, future starting safety, SAM backer, blocking TE,
Id call those concerns. Lots of time to fix these issues before the start of next season.
I think they can hit those in the 2018 off-season for sure. I agree there is a lot of time to fix them; they’re just what I see as the next steps in roster building around Wentz.
Im more worried about the offense and Pederson than I am personnel.
Pederson had better have f-ing self scouted his HORRIBLE play calling this off-season and realized what he needs to fix.
I’m actually not worried about the offense in general IF Lane stays off of the juice and Peters gives us one more good year. They were light years better with Lane last year than without. Wentz year 2 is going to be light years better considering he’s been the #1 and getting all of the coaching and will be getting all of the reps, whereas last year he was the 3rd stringer, hurt, and then dropped in the lineup for week 1.
The best time to make mistakes is when you are a rookie. Also, the plays were only horrible because they didn’t work.
But they didn’t work because they were horrible.
have you factored into your reasoning about the horrible play calling all of those dropped passes? many of which, had they been completed , would have resulted in scores, 1st downs,better field position, etc…
not the plays called at fault there, in fact those were great calls as most of the time those plays would have resulted in all of those TDs,1st downs,better field position etc…
(although players dropping passes is the coaches` fault)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFP_q4WNnbI
Just run the damn ball
well i agree w/that
sadly the few times they tried, a fumble here , lost yards there
guess play calling reflected that(lack of confidence that running would get the job done
I agree.
Pederson scares the crap out of me. Especially without a RB1 to keep Carson from having to drop back 45 times a a game.
Carson can handle it
Another DE please
You can PUP Allen and keep a 6th DE.
RB
CB – short term
LB
Im not worried about RB.
They just drafted 2 CBs. Mills is there. Im sure they will acquire another CB before that start of next season.
For the start of this season they will just have to rely on who is ready to go by the start of the season. This why i was shocked they didnt offer Carroll a 1 or 2 year deal.
Walker is coming back and they just drafted another LB.
I’m not sure that I’d count on Gerry to be anything this year given his weight. I think it’s more likely that Grugier-Hill gets the backup spot at WILL.
Probably the only chance is to replace Braman as the LB-in-name-only-special-teams guy.
They drafted two CBs, but one is injured and they’re both rookies. Rookie CBs tend to SUCK. Therefore, our CB situation remains turrible.
Need another young DE
Need another young DE to groom!
I expect next year to be RB (saquon barkley hopefully) or DE in the first round. Obviously it’s early yet
We’re going to be picking in the early 20s (yeah, I said it!) and Barkley is a top RB pick.
Guice, Scarborough or Chubb would probably do. And there will be risers. Damn, I wish we had a second rounder.
I’m still holding out a modicum of hope for a Brandon Graham type turnaround for MSII this year. He had a decent off-season and camp in ’16, if he builds on that this year, maybe he does enough to push the need for a DE down a notch and they can focus on getting an elite RB. Hey, I can dream, right?
Hey, he got a sack on Tyron Smith this year!
Marcus Smith has tried really hard to find way to contribute, but I can’t envision a quantum leap in his production for 2017. Especially with Barnett and Long both (and I insist on this!!!!!) being more useful than Curry and Barwin were last year. I don’t think Marcus is going to have the opportunity to even play most weeks.
He’s not your typical bust. You can see the label eats him up and he’s been working hard to shed it. You’re right, the numbers are stacked against him, but I’m rooting for the kid. Be a damn shame to throw away that kind of athleticism.
I hope he does well as well, but do you see DE5 being active much this year?
Hope not. I guess my best case for him is stealing a job from Vinny Curry and earning that fifth year option. $11M for a DE4 just grosses me out. And I’ve run out of next years with the guy.
There’s a YouTube of Marcus going airborne to bring down Eli in the last game of ’15. It’s electrifying.
nice
https://youtu.be/Osh6z8bxzhQ
With a bit of luck and resignings, next years hard needs will amount to a new starting OT, A 3-down back and an inline TE, and then, hopefully, we will have good starters at almost all positions (LB depth? We’ll see..) That all sounds doable if you add together draft and free agency. I see a real chance for the 2019 eagles to be a factor. (At that point I am also counting on Eli to be completely washed up, Redskins back in the cellar without any offensive playmakers and Dallas O-line to be back down to the pack. And Dak as ‘the guy’ does still not scare me anymore than Nick Foles would.) I imagine that Lurie is having those same conversations with Roseman and Pederson. That could explain their willingness to draft a CB for 2019 and not this year – they already know they are aiming a few years down the road before Lurie will demand real results.
I’m with that. One small change; I’d like to have one of our d lineman do the “washing up” for Eli for him. It’s absolutely disgusting that a piece of crap like Eli passed Jaws on the consecutive game played list; Eli’s number needs to be up.
Oh absolutely. He has had enough luck in his career at this point. Including the good fortune to never get any injury. But I’d also like for him to really suck for at least another season, maybe two, just to put the Giants further behind the curve in getting him replaced, but also to make sure that everyone remembers how genuinely pedestrian he has been over his career before they start talking about putting him into the HOF.
I might get banned from the internet for life if they attempt to enshrine Eli.
I guarantee you they will try. Because he is sufficiently harmless and bland and acts poorly in embarrassing ads which makes him kind of folksy to certain types of people, and also he has the right last name after all and if there is one thing sports people and media people agree on, its that dynasties make for great sports stories and that narrative is just too good to pass up. Of course he does’nt swear, in fact he rarely speaks an word that feels authentic or displays any sort of character or conviction about himself or the sport he plays, and that is exactly the kind of player we badly want to cannonise over thugs with extraordinary talent like that Terell Owens-guy who sometimes dared to be controversial and does not belong in the fine company of upstanding citizens in the HOF community who smile a lot and show up to be poster boys for various league events. And don’t forget that he won the superbowl, so he must be an all time great HOF’er simply for that reason, since rings trump game tape and int stats no matter how the games and career played out. (Except, that is, for if your name is Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett, Joe Theismann, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler or Mark Rypien, in which case winning the superbowlis not enough to overcome your lack of connections and name recognition to make you a HOF’er.)
…Look we all know how this is going to play out. And I am not going to pretend like I am not prepared for it.
In what world do you see Eli not getting into the HOF? He’s got two rings.
Lets build a 53……………..
Special Friends (3) – Sturgis, Dorenbros, Jones
QB (2)(5) – Wentz, Foles
RB (4)(9) – Clement, Sproles, Smallwood, Pump
TE (3) (12) – Ertz, Celek, Burton
WR (5)(17) – Alshon, Torrey, Ags, Hollins, Gibson
OL (10)(27) – Peters, Warmack, Seumalo, Brooks, Lane, Barbre (y’all talked me into it), Big V, Greene, Gordon, Orlosky (D3 talked me into it), Wis
DE (5) (32) Graham, Long, Curry, Barnett, Smith
DT (5) (37) Cox, Jernigan, Qualls, Allen, Shittu
LB (6) (43) Hicks, Bradham, Walker, Gruiger-Hill, Goode, Marcus Olivier/ Don Cherry sweepstakes, there can be only 1
CB (6) (49) Mills, McKelvin, Douglas, Robinson, Brooks, Grymes
S (4) (53) Jenkins, McLeod, Maragos, Brooks.
Traded – Kendricks, Kelce, J Matt
GTFO my roster, I hate you – DGB, Jaylin Watkins
P Squad pals – CJ Smith, PT Cruiser, Destiny, Nate Gerry, Marshall, Watson, loser of Cherry/Olivier, McAlister, two randos.
Was that an error, or do you have them resigning Leodis? He was cut.
Error, I’ll edit.
You think Qualls and Shittu beat out Destiny?
I’m not 100% convinced Matthews gets released yet.
Destiny has fulfilled his destiny already. Qualls gives you something you don’t have with anybody else on this roster and Shittu was (hopefully) done a world of good with some NFL nuitrition, strength, and conditioning.
Turron Davenport, who doesn’t know a f-ing thing about quarterbacking, has been talking up Shittu a lot. If the beats start discussing him more, I’ll know its not totally just one guy’s deal.
That $4 from Ryan Mathews is going to be vital given some other salary needs coming up. I really really don’t want to lose Jernigan given how much we paid for him.
I feel both him and Sproles can go. I would eat not having them if it helps pay Timmy and AJ
Sproles won’t go, and he probably shouldn’t. Immense part of our special teams and will help Wentz develop, especially with his skills on 3rd down. He’ll also retire after 2017.
Throw the ball to Donnell on third down.
I dont think Sproles will go but I wouldn’t shed a tear of he and Mathews arent on the 53.
I think Howie’s hoping Sproles un-retires and goes to a contender as a UFA in ’18 to add to the 2019 draft bonanza he’s plotting. Plus, the whole mentor for Pumphrey thing this year.
Destiny had a good rookie year. He has to be a favorite to make the roster but it’s good to have competition.
I hereby nominate Qualls for the Annual Igglesblitz Back-of-Roster All-Pro.
I’m also pumping up Joe Walker, Aaron Grymes, and CJ Smith for those jobs.
Yes
Glad to see, on this one at least, that I’m not totally off base.
I doubt we’re trading all of Matthews, Kelce and Kendricks. I actually doubt we’ll trade even one of them.
By my count, you actually have 11 OL listen. I hope we dont keep both Greene and Gordon, wouldn’t.
Cant really figure out why Grugier-Hill is still on the roster.
We already cut McKelvin and you dont have any mention of Sidney Jones. Doubt we keep 6 CBs, especially when Grymes is the 6th. Not enough talent to do it.
I’ll edit again.
Jones will be on PUP until weeks 6 through 10. Then we’ll see. He doesn’t count on the 53 until then
Losing Jordan Matthews for some mystery 2019 comp pick is immoral. Signing Jordan Matthews to market ($8 mil / year as of 2016 season) is immoral. Kelce and Kendricks playing at that level for what salary they’re earning is immoral.
So Howie has a moral obligation to get me some 2018 draft picks for players who I’ve decided shouldn’t be here and need to be converted to assets.
I agree on Kelce and Kendrick. Cant really give any good value on the field, but i just can’t imagine anyone trading for them, and i’m not eating their dead money. Also just seems dumb, money aside, to cut Kendricks when we have 0 LB depth. Kendrick might suck, but still better than Walker/Goode and with no gain on the cap, cutting is just a waste. Keep in mind that well still eat the dead money if they’re traded, im not trading them alongside out 7th for the Pats’ 7th rounder, thats just bad cap.
Jordan Matthews produces, and he’ll help Carson this year. I can’t see anyone offering something even remotely worth the production from J-Matt, so i’ll rather take the chance on the miracle that he either shows that he actually IS worth a contract by fixing his mistakes, OR that other NFL teams aren’t stupid as fuck and we’ll get him at a more reasonable top Slot WR cap number.
I’d agree, that Grimes can be the 5th corner when removing Leodis, with the sole purpose that he’s gone when/if Sidney Jones comes of PUP.
I’m hoping Howie fulfills his obligation to you.
Kruger hill is probably the Special Team Ace replacement for Braman
10 OL and 10 DL? Don’t sleep tonight, Crazy Eyes will be coming for you.
Im already here.
I like to win games up front! And I kept all of the vital special teams wackos.
Not bad. Keep Kendricks if there isn’t a cap issue, and it’s done.
Edit.. oh no Jmatt!? You crazy.
What deal is he signed for beyond this year? If I don’t have him locked up under a team friendly deal, I don’t want to risk only getting 2019 comp picks.
Agreed. JM is the kind of guy they probably wont let walk at all. No matter whay, a show-me year.
Where’s Jordan Matthews?
Moved for 2018 draft capital because he’s not signed after this year.
Don’t know if I see that happening. If they can trade him for something that helps immediately maybe, but I don’t think they trade him before seeing how he performs this year and determine how much it would cost to re-sign him. Even if he walks as a FA they get a compensatory pick.
they maybe get a comp pick, but only if Howie isn’t signing other people. I don’t want spec, I want surety.
I’d be surprised if Ags makes the roster this year regardless of dead money.
We need that damned money. WAY too close to the cap with the current roster’s lack of talent. I’d be comfortable with our cap numbers if we had the 88 Niners roster, but not this group.
Still expecting trades of “my surplus/unwanted” for “your surplus/unwanted”. Dead $ washes, subtract excess, fill a need, and improves roster. Say Mathews for Fuller + 7th in 2018. Or maybe even a pkg. of Mathews + Kendricks for ?
Nice job w/ the 53; very helpful to see where the logjams are.
Why Shittu over Destiny?
..
Why Agholar over Mathews? Even if Jordan gets like 7 or 8mil per year extension, that’s only a couple more million than Agholars first round salary (that still has a few years left on his rookie deal) with all the new depth/competition at WR, could be an opportunity to save some money offering Jordan Mathews some security via a new extension before he ever becomes a free agent, Jordan wants to be here, and im not sure why anyone would want to be in a rush to get rid of him when he isn’t even close to the weakest link of our WRs. We have other Wrs that need replacing before we even consider replacing Jordan. He may have frustrated you, but typically driven hard working people with talent figure it out sooner or later, not even ready to entertain keepimg a mental midget in Agholar over Jordan,,.. DGB is as good as gone
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Be awesome if Brooks proves to be an upgrade from Jaylen Watkins
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I think the Eagles would keep 6 Wr’s (Nelson Agholar AND mathews) before they keep 6 corners. The #6 WR whether it’s Nelson or Jordan IMO is more likely to make the roster than the #6 corner (Grymes or CJ). More likely that they keep 6 WR than 6 corners especially when we have multiple safeties with corner experience too
.
Did we keep 5 or 6 LB last year?
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Just a hunch on Shittu adding some good weight and being ready for the job. He was better than Destiny going into the draft last year, but wasn’t large/strong enough for the job just yet.
Ags over Matthews for salary cap and future asset acquisition. Ags is gone after one more year anyway, but is too expensive to cut now. Matthews isn’t guaranteed to be here beyond this year and he keeps us from playing 2 TE because he’s only good in the slot.
Fair enough
Destiny Vaeo (sp?) makes it over Shittu), I doubt they trade Matthews although I’m not opposed, I think Byron Marshall makes the team (just a hunch), Orlosky gets PS, one too many LBers
Otherwise pretty good
That’s all valid.
“Qualls is much more than a run stuffer…”
(Video of him stuffing runs for a full minute.)
(Video of two failed QB rushes.)
I am unconvinced.
So, in rotation, he’s an upgrade from Allen.
Maybe. And maybe I am missing something, but I didn’t see penetration or push, just (mostly) holding his ground and grabbing onto the RB as he went by.
He’s a finesse (hippo mind you) rusher. I’m half joking, but kinda not.
That’s called “release” and is a good thing.
The current gimped Allen, for sure.
More likely, his rookie contract will be an upgrade in 2018.
He was 2 gapping in the run stuffing video
I was really impressed by his rushes on the outside. While he didn’t get there he impressed with the ability to get pressure
He got up the field, but it was going to take he 30 yards to bend around the corner. With Foles back on the Eagles, that approach won’t lead to any opposing QBs.
This is Bolles
https://twitter.com/BigDuke50/status/858430308085051392
That’s some nice agility and quickness there. Doesn’t look like just a fat guy.
He can do backflips
I know he was a champion wrestler. With that build and the hair he reminds me a bit of Trevor Laws.
The most vital athletic accomplishment of them all!
That looked much more impressive.
Anyone excited about Clement or is he worse than Smallwood?
Without putting too much thought into it I’d say Smallwood is the better talent based on he was drafted 5th round vs Clement who is undrafted.
Yeah I think Smallwood is a bit better, but it’s a poor comparison – different styles. I think Clement can be serviceable for eating up snaps and some decent RB play – potentially for short yardage.
Both on their best day, Clement is better. But he had a ton of issues with dedication, and can pass protect.
Smallwood showed heart and flashes of talent. Hoping he has trained hard during the off-season and comes into camp with his game leveled up. Maybe both guys can ball.
Yeah I was pleased with the ability he flashed last year and typically we have seen Eagle RB’s ease into the NFL as rookies, but then show significant leap in year two
.
The only problem is, as of today, I don’t think they can just assume that his pass protection problems will all be solved by week 1. I don’t have to be familiar with Pumphrey to know that they aren’t trusting a 175lb rookie in pass protection. So as Of today, tiny, old man Sproles is our most reliable pass blocking RB, which is a serious problem, and makes me think that either Ryan Mathews will be back, or that some band aid veteran RB will have to be signed. Smallwood can’t even be considered as a potential 3down RB until we can trust him to not get Wentz killed against the Blitz.
..
What happens if Darren Sproles has to miss games to injury? Even if we think the world of their running/catching ability, Pumphrey and Smallwood can’t be trusted enough in pass protection as of today to not add a veteran RB or bring Ryan Mathews back for 1 more year.
Ryan Mathews? Blount force trauma? Jamal Charles? Any other possible RB names out there? There is just no way that I believe that the Eagles will go into the season with only Sprolesy, smallwood, Pumphry and the UDFA. I just cant possibly believe that
Great post. I completely agree. I had hoped they’d truly address the RB situation by now via FA or draft.
Interesting piece by Kempski on keeping Jones off the field for all of 2017 http://www.phillyvoice.com/eagles-would-be-wise-shut-rookie-cb-sidney-jones-down-season/
Nice thought, but the benefit of redshirting him won’t trumpet the costs of not gaining any playing experience.
If Sidney Jones can be had for roughly 5 games (most likely after the bye) then putting him on IR doesn’t make much sense. Even if it means he won’t become an UFA one year later.
He’ll have missed all of camp. The only practice he will have had are glorified walkthroughs. Playing him this year is throwing him to the wolves.
Save the contract year.
If Jones is who we want him to be that contract year is worth 10 to 20 times what we’d get from him on the field this year.
I *think* they can keep him off the 53 for enough games for this not to count as an accrued year. If so, I would rather him practicing with the team this year, and maybe getting a few snaps towards the end of the year, to better prepare for next year. Starting though? probably not.
However, the RFA thing is a big deal. They probably do want to make sure this year does not accrue. He can be on the 53-man for five games and not have this year count. Question is do they start when he comes off the PUP list, or when they add him to the 53-man (there is a three-week window allowed between those two events).
I respect your opinion but beg to differ. If he can be had for 5-6 games he may even be able to help us in the playoffs…
Having him on scumbag wages for an extra year when he’d be a UFA otherwise presents more value. If Jones is what we think he is; he’s a $13 to $15 mil / year CB in 2017 dollars when he hits the market.
I’d rather find out early if he’s the real deal and if he does I am more than happy to pay him that money down the line in 4 years time.
I’m happy to see him get the money as well, but I’m happier if our cap has one less year of that level of a cap hit on it while getting play at a high level.
Five, not six 🙂
Sorry. Was taking the NFC divisional playoff game into account as well…
Luckily, those don’t count for accrued season purposes 😉
If we’re in playoff contention we got there with the ones we have.
It’s a gamble either way. I wonder how far he would have dropped if we didn’t take him.
The consensus seems to be he was top 15 if healthy. A round for a redshirt year seems about fair. Probably the best way to figure it out would be to see where similar situations have drafted in the past. Wouldn’t be surprised if 538 had an article on that.
Don’t Think it matters much either way. We aren’t winning a Super Bowl in 2017, so Im thrilled that they took advantage of being able to use Patience as an Asset getting a corner that we literally could have drafted with the #14th pick had he not gotten hurt.
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And for me taking a chance on a 20yr old with an achilles tear is no where near as risky as what Dallas did spending a top 5 second round pick on a kid who was at risk of having significant nerve damage. jason Peters at the Age of 30 and 330lbs came back strong from two achilles tears, I have no problem Redshirting a top talent to give him the best chance possible Of putting the injury behind him and having a long career.
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If the corner we drafted in round 3 proves that he can contribute as a rookie, then there really is no serous downside to waiting a year for what could end up becoming the top corner from the 2017 draft.
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We don’t have a second round pick next year, and this draft was so loaded at corner that next years draft class can’t possibly be as strong as this years class, so waiting a year for this kid shouldnt be that big of a deal. Any time we can get the best or second best prospect at one of the most valued positions like corner in the second round is worth a 1yr wait IMO especially when you have a second year QB who isn’t winning a Super Bowl next year.
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Hopefully Patrick Robinson at least proves to be an upgrade from a hobbled Leodis
So if you played him for the last five games would that also not count as an “Accrued year”?
I’m not sure but I think you’ve indicated the essence of the debate: At what point does his health and readiness to play tip the cost/benefit ratio of sitting him the whole year?
If he’d make the difference between a sure fire title run or not.
im just wondering if you can have both. It says you need six games to have an accrued year. So can you rest him and let him play for the last 5 games, give him experience, see what you have in him.
I didn’t catch the 5 game rule. Thanks for the info. I’m not sure you’d be able to tell his full caliber if he plays five games after missing so much, but at least it would get him on the field for some NFL experience.
I hate the idea of bring him back for the last 5 or 6 games of his rookie season. That game experience just isn’t worth it. The kid is too important to our future so we should put him in the best position to succeed which means giving him a full year to recover and have him ready to prepare him with a full offseason of mini camp, training camp, preseason before throwing such an important 20yr old investment in an NFL game.
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Rookie corners worry me enough without them coming off a serious injury and missing every mini camp, training camp, preseason game. Let the kid fully prepare himself and give him the best possible chance of succeeding before putting him in his first NFL game
The 2 picks I really questioned were Jones and Humphrey. Knowing that the alternative was to trade those picks in order to draft Cook, I feel much better.
Did you just disrespect the Pump?
PUMPH up the volume
That Pump’s got GAS
No, damn autocorrect keeps doing that. More trouble than it’s worth.
God damn robots
I think Qualls paid the neighbor kid 100$ to make those highlight vids.
he overpaid
Love Pumphrey’s attitude, but if he taunts opponents like that in the pros, someone will take the PF and break him.
Ironic note: I’m watching his Cal game, and the bottom of the screen scroll flashes “Fournette DNP: ankle”. Worth remembering that anyone can get hurt playing football, and Pumphrey has proven he’s durable.
Pumphrey is super shifty and doesn’t seem to take big hits, which helps. He’s obviously tiny, but Warrick Dunn was basically the exact same size and had a very good NFL career so it’s not necessarily a deal breaker. Given his college production he’s worth a shot.
Kazee or Corn would have been a much better shot there, imo.
Those guys are both nice players but they’ve already hit CB twice in this draft. Only so many spots on the roster.
Really? It would be really depressing to think that there are no cb slots available on this roster. Jones won’t be taking one, at least not to start the year.
In today’s game, there are 3 starting cb slots.
I think he’s a solid pickup, if you already have a starting rb on your roster.
Looks like DP plans to do RB by committee; there isn’t going to be a “starting RB” per se. This seems to be the plan rather than happenstance. It fits what DP experienced in KC & to a certain extent earlier in his time in Phila.
Probably, but im Not 100% sure about that, still could see them add a veteran RB.
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Smallwood is currently our most well rounded RB, and I think he flashed some real ability last year but he has yet to prove to the coaching staff that he can be counted on to hold up in pass protection.
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I have a hard time envisioning the Eagles planning to put more on SPROLES plate than we saw in recent years, and we don’t even know yet if they envision “pump” as more of a RB or more of a slot WR.
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Typically The Eagles haven’t really asked rookie RB to play a major role but we have seen Eagles RB make significant leaps from their rookie to sophmore season, hopefully we see similar growth from Wendell this year.
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Ryan Mathews makes 5 million and has never proved to be able to stay on the field, so I have hard time envisioning them deciding to hold on to him considering he is coming off such a serious injury for a player who never plays 16 games anyway.
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Guess there is still a chance they sigń or trade for a bandaid at RB. I just don’t see them going into the season with smallwood, Sproles and Pump as their 3 RB’s.. There has to be another shoe to drop in the next month or two at RB. Any chance they are waiting Til they can waive Ryan Mathews before signing his veteran RB replacement?
Looks like “the shoe” is Clement – the plugger who keeps getting the bell w/ a lead in the 4th qtr. to run out the clock. The other 3 RB’s certainly aren’t suited for that role.
Ha Warrick Dunn who his Florida State coach said was the best football player he ever coached? C’mon now, Pumphrey Bogart has a long way to go to measure up to that level of badassery.
Pretty sure Pumphrey’s college accomplishments match up with anyone. Not saying he will be Dunn, but you can’t disrespect what he’s accomplished.
I’m not at all saying Pumphrey will be as good as Dunn was. Just that they are nearly identical in physical dimensions. Therefore we can’t look at Pumphrey’s size and rule him out as an NFL player on the basis of it. He was a tremendously accomplished college player so it’s not as if his resume is chopped liver.
Not to diminish Warrick Dunn, but Bobby Bowden is a senile liver spot of a human being who FSU fans want to undeservedly put on a level with actual all-time great coaches; none of whom needed to put up wins from Samford to make their case.
F FSU
Dunn was 190.
Pumphrey showed up to the senior bowl at 169
Dunn may have gotten up to 190 during his NFL playing days, but at the 1997 combine he measured 5-8, 176 – the exact same as Pumphrey. So he didn’t come into the league at that size.
http://www.sportsxchange.com/ds97/Analysis/TBDraft.htm
Interesting.
Still don’t think he’s anything more than a 5 touch a game manufactured touch guy.
That’s certainly a possibility. I suppose a lot will depend on whether he can get bigger and stronger the way Dunn did. Certainly the list of jitterbug college feature backs who washed out or became role players is much longer than the list of ones who had any kind of success as a feature back in the NFL.
It’s a skillset that’s long on supply so I don’t know why you pay a high price for it.
That’s a totally reasonable objection to the pick. Pumphrey wasn’t my favorite selection in this draft either and I don’t see why they traded up for him when there were so many good backs in this draft class. Willing to give him a shot though.
I mean I’m an Eagles fan. I hope he turns into Warrick Dunn. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a stupid pick, and in 2 years we will all complaining about player X,Y,Z,A,B,C who went after him being really good while he’s a run of the mill 5 touch a game scatback.
Dunn was 25 pounds heavier
I stand corrected…he eventually got up to 190 but you’re right he weighed in at the combine at 176 pounds
Still stuck wondering about Pumphrey. I liked him in college because he is such an oddity. Like him as an Eagle cus he is an oddity. But the Eagles need a RB, not a curiousity, so can he actually be productive in the NFL consistently?
Watching Pumphrey highlights is a lot, lot of sweeps, pitch outs, him beating college players (not NFL defenses with speed) to the edge and running for big yards down the sideline. Its impressive enough but left me not convinced he could run in the NFL.
But watching his performances against individual teams was much more impressive than his highlights. He runs a lot in between the tackles. Almost more of a power running style of all things. He quickly finds and hits the hole, and drives forward for as far as he can go, sometimes three players in on the tackle starting at 7 yards from the line of scrimmage going to 10 or 11 yards. He gets hit and then gets positive yards after the hit. I swear I saw a linemen size guy bounce off of him, or at least let Pumphrey slip through his arms.
He is not a dancer – not a homerun hitter who mixes one 50 yard gain with ten plays of -5 yards. He is a 3 yard, 8 yard, 2 yards, 11 yards, 10 yards, down the middle type of runner, with lots of sweeps mixed in as well. Very Sproles like actually in running – Sproles is not a dancer, Sproles is very downhill in his running, hitting holes and driving for as much as that hole will give him, which for a strong, small guy can sometimes be a surprising nice 8 yard chunk while surrounded by a mass of defenders.
But 176 pounds? To be the all time rushing leader with 6.0 yard average, (even if he was a top 80 all time rusher at his size would be incredible impressive, but 1st? there has to be something there) at SDSU he was obviously big enough. But in the NFL i hope he gets up to 190.
Agreed. He wouldn’t have those stats if he could only run outside. But the odds are stacked against him bring able to find success between the tackles in the pros. Guess we’ll see.
I like the signing of Clement. He strikes me as a similar level prospect to guys like Gallman and Foreman who were drafted in the middle rounds and he only cost us a signing bonus.
I’m pretty happy with this draft all told. The big needs coming in were CB, RB, WR depth, and pass rushers. Those positions were all addressed with appropriately rated players, and they picked up some higher rated guys who slid like Qualls as well. I would’ve maybe liked a late round pick on the OL and a bigger RB prospect, but I can’t complain too much. I’d give it a preliminary B+.
Orlosky was a pretty good get yesterday. Not as versatile as some of the others I liked, but we already have two versatile centers, so it works out.
I still want Kyle Fuller. The Bears just denied his 5th year option. I find it difficult to believe they don’t want a Kendricks or Kelce. I understand Kendricks, but Kelce can be a good center in the right scheme. They have new quarterbacks that could benefit greatly from a “Pro Bowl” center.
I guess I am one of the few against a JMatt trade at this point. I don’t view Torrey Smith as anything other than a low-risk guy. We have some other guys that can play the slot, but I don’t want too much change for Wentz. Alshon and Smith/Gibson/others can open up the middle for Matthews and Ertz. Unless there is worthwhile return, don’t take away the extremely hard worker and locker room presence that Matthews gives us. Plus he seems to kind of orchestrate a lot of the offseason workouts and is a large influence on the other guys.
If you can’t guarantee me that J Matt can play something other than slot AND sign a below market deal for 2018-2022; I’d rather trade him.
Even if you can’t get anything for him?
It’s Howie’s job to get something for him.
Damn right.
I would rather keep him for this season and let him go for a comp pick. Unless one of the drafted guys looks good enough to beat him out.
He would be tradable I’m sure but not for much. And he’s still reasonably productive, and may be better as the #3 option instead of #1. I think he’s worth more to the Eagles this year than what you’d get for him. Still not sure we have much depth at WR and injuries can always happen — not worth the risk to trade him now.
Kendricks and Kelce are going to be much harder to trade, but they seem more likely to not be on the team this year to me. Cutting them can get some significant cap money back.
That comp pick isn’t until 2019 however. I need more near term value.
The near-term value would be making more sure you have a viable target for Wentz this year rather than hoping that the draft picks produce. Matthews is not a difference-maker but he can play — you couldn’t say even that for any other WR on the roster last year. Outside of Jeffery, who has missed games for injuries, and Smith if he rebounds from last year, not sure you can *still* stay that about other WRs on the roster.
For the money and compensation, I think he’s worth more to us. If Jeffery / Smith get injured for any stretch, and Wentz has to struggle with a lack of WRs again this year, it’s not worth it.
That’s a fair counter balance, but if I have Matthews gone I can run more 2 TE sets which will give Wentz just as many comfortable throws; with a few less drops.
Matthews can help the team win games this year. He’s also exactly the type of player you want to see what he can do with a “prove it” year.
But can he ever prove to be more than a slot only player? It’s on my last nerve that we can’t run 2 TE because of Matthews.
Yeah, that’s why i agree he’s probably gone. But we’ll find it for sure this year, at least he’ll have talent around him.
I just see the whole Matthews situation as something that will help the team the most in the long run by getting a higher pick for 2018 via a trade in 2017 than trying to play comp pick roulette for 2019. And considering how easily rookie WRs contribute, I think we can maximize what we’re going to get from some guys while they’re still being paid trash rookie wages if we move on from Matthews now.
We’re already down a corner for the year. Tanking seasons in football is bs. So much luck involved in a playoff run, the two reasons you see teams consistently there is qb play and because they put themselves in position to compete year in and year out. No one offered a third for him.
I don’t see offloading Kecle, Matthews, and Kendricks as a tank at all. I think there are more than enough ways to still improve this team without any of the 3 being here.
I don’t put Matthews (or Kelce) in the same category as Kendricks.
I see all three as guys from who we can move on and not miss anything.
Seumalo was drafted to be a center. He’s on a 4 year deal at pretty low wages. He proved last year to be a functional football player. I’d like to get 3 full years of him starting at center before we have to pay him for real. And I’m tired of Kelce getting deposited into Wentz’s lap by anybody over 300lbs.
Matthews is a UFA when the year is over, so I’d like to transition to getting Wentz used to new targets sooner rather than later. Getting a draft pick for 2018 for Matthews and getting other guys valuable reps now is worth it to me unless I 100% know Matthews is going to sign a team friendly deal. I don’t want to risk losing him for nothing as a UFA and he’s not so good that it’ll kill the team to not have him.
Kendricks is hardly on the field. He’s a waste of money.
Understood. Given the draft, losing Matthews might not impact the team much.
Right now we can only play 1 te sets because we only have one good te
Yeah there certainly isn’t a #2 TE on the roster that has more ability than what Jordan Mathews should provide this year. Burton/40 year old Celek are not very good reasons to be taking Jordan off the field
We’re not playing with a FB any time soon, so having Burton or Celek on the field gives you better versatility and than having 3 WRs when it comes to the run/pass ratio we badly need fixed.
everyone uses two TE’s, but we dont have the personnel in place to run more two TE than 3 WR sets this year, and we certainly don’t lack size at the WR position.
What if we sign Gary Barnridge on vet minimum after his cut from the Browns?
got money to spend? Rather get a RB, than a 4th TE just so we could keep jordan Mathews off the field during a year where I think it’s extremely important to further evaluate his growth rate of both Jordan and Burton before decisions need to be made on their expiring contract, and I certainly don’t hate jordan as much as you do to where I would want to go get a 4th TE just to keep Him off the field. I actually value Jordan and think he can help win games more than ever now that he will be on the field with other WRs that defenses have to respect as opposed to last year where defenses could laugh at Nelson and DGB and focus their D on Jordan, Ertz and Sproles.
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Just because Jordan Mathews could prove to be the Man in his 2nd and 3rd seasons and successfully carry an Incompetant group of WRs, DOESNT mean he can’t grow into a really valuable complimemtary WR to a big dog like Alshon.
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Wouldn’t hurt to give him more than 1 year of building chemistry with his rookie QB, nor would it hurt to let him get more comfortable in year two of a west coast offense which comes with way more nuance and volume than Chips over simplified playbook.
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I don’t go into this year expecting Jordan to have a pro bowl season, but Im very much interested in seeing how much more he can Improve this year being in a better situation in just about every way possble compared to last season:
Better chemistry with carson
Better understanding of the west coast offense
Better OL should give Carson more time in the pocket to succeed
Coaches have a better understanding of what they can and can’t ask of Jordan
better sorrounding weapons taking defensive pressure off him where as last year defenses could key in on him since Agholar and DGB were worthless in 2016. Just having a guy like Torrey who can stretch the field should provide Jordan more room to work.
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Jordan Mathews Wasnt exactly drafted in the greatest situation conducive to early NFL success. Playing with a new QB each year. Already on his 2nd head coach, 3rd WR coach, and second offensive system. drafted in a position where he has to fill a big role immediately without having much help in terms of other weapons defenses needed to really respect. I very curious to see what Jordans 2017 season looks like
“got money to spend?”
Yup! From the trades of Kendricks and Kelce along with the cut of Ryan Mathews.
Plus you don’t pay full contact value on a vet minimum deal. Some of that is exempted.
So you were on team OJ Howard at 14?
Yes but not over barnett
Depends on the value of the compensatory pick you’re going to get for him. If he nets you a comp 4 and they’re only offering a 5, use him up and let him walk.
What if I can get a 4th that becomes a 3rd if he hits certain numbers?
And what if the comp winds up being “none” because we sign a few guys?
What if you could get a second? Doesn’t matter because you won’t. You won’t get a 4th, either.
And we sign a few guys we won’t get a comp either. So why not get whatever we can get if he’s not going to be here?
Because I think honestly think J Matt, Kelce, Kendricks have become your new Barner, although for different reasons. They’re overpaid underperformers who won’t be here in a few years, but they are worth more to us this year than the combined 4th round pick that we’d get packaging the three of them out the door. Forcing the issue makes them worth even less. If some team has a center go down in training camp or loses a receiver, sure. Exploit. But until then, NOPE. I think it’s equally likely that we have an injury which forces our hand to keep them, so keep them. a 4th round pick, btw, gets us players we apparently don’t like on this board.
FWIW, I give you a lot of shit, but I rather like this back and forth.
The Bears’ center is Cody Whitehair — a 2nd Rd pick in last year’s draft.
They probably could use Kendricks to raise the competition at LB.
But I’m not sure he’s worth Fuller even up, if I’m the Bears.
The Bears can also choose from Alan Barbre and Jordan Matthews.
They’ve got Sitton-Whitehair-Long on the interior they don’t need Kelce.
AS pointed out, they have Whitehair on the roster, but they also have Grasu coming back from injury. They don’t need Kelce at all.
I need this played when Pump is scoring TDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKO80WcO0eU
Great under rated song from The “above the rim” soundtrack
One of the best soundtracks of all time
Fuck yeah!
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“pain” is one of my favorite Tupac songs, and i don’t know why that song Wasnt more popular
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Lady of Rage “Afro Puffs”
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“Regulate” Nate Dogf/Warren G
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“Pour out a little liquor” thuglife
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And im sure there are a few more good songs im forgetting
That soundtrack was produced by Suge and death Row….
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I also loved the “DEEP COVER” soundtrack, “187” might be my favorite snoop song/Dr Dre song of all time
Interesting tidbit that Cleveland has now acquired 9 players with the picks received by the Eagles in the trade for #2. They still have the Eagles 2nd next year as well. I’d still take the quality of a Wentz in that exchange, but it will be fascinating to see how the players pan out for the Browns and if they can turn their franchise around.
I’m also glad Kelce, Kendricks et al. did not get traded during the draft.
Kelce should be the starting C until and only if Seumalo beats him out. Seumalo should play OG and prove further he can play at this level consistently.
Kendricks is a good LB option for the Eagles, play him at WIL and find ways to utilize his talents. Schwartz needs to figure it out.
Browns can win the pick accumulation game all they like. They still have to pick players at the end of the day, and they’re still the Browns. I don’t follow the Browns well enough to know what they’re doing (who the fuck does?), but I’ll believe it when I see it. I also hate Hue, so that colors my thoughts.
Besides that, I think philosophically/psychologically, when you have more picks, you take riskier players with higher bust chances. If you only have one pick, you’re going to make it count.
When Cleveland picks 9 All-Stars with those picks and Wentz gets worse every year, they’ll send out those 9 guys as captains for the coin flip next time we play.
Mixed feelings on this draft. Seems like an ‘ok’ draft (B- for impact on the team next year) but not much help for Wentz either. Also seem like they really relying upon Schwartz and his ability to scheme effectively this year to cover up some of the real weak spots on defense.
Schwartz showed me no-to-little ability to really adjust last year and the ‘fiery rhetoric’ types coaches generally don’t impress me much either. There are some exceptions but it seems that a lot more often not their schtick wears thin on people real quick & they have a limited self-life.
This is just such a strange roster right now. Bottom 5 at RB and CB right now and you could argue maybe the worst in the NFL right now.
Also areas of real depth right now including at WR, DL, and OL and each possibly being Top 10 (maybe top 5). S is decent too even though McLeod is overrated and is a liability in coverage.
You don’ think the two legit deep ball guys are a help for Wentz?
Minor. Hope one of them can be a complementary 4/5 this year and have a dozen big plays downfield this year.
Interesting to see what the offense looks like and if they go pass happy because that is the perceived strong suit of the offense.
Hope Wentz shows some signs of improvement (especially on the short routes) but if the plan is to have him throw it ~40 times a game I don’t see this team being positioned to succeed either.
What can improve Wentz / cut down on throws………..
– better o-line play. 16 game of Lane. 16 games of Peters-contest winner-Seumalo-Brooks-Lane. That will by default, run the ball better while also allowing Wentz time to set his feet better in the pocket. Kelce and Barbre frequently getting deposited in Wentz’s lap won’t be happening with those choads gone.
-better 3rd down D. The pass rush should be a tad better with Jernigan / Long as opposed to Benny / Barwin. Less points given up = less # of times Wentz has to be in obvious passing downs.
– Wentz getting a full off-season of work at the #1. Wentz was getting #3 reps from the moment he was drafted until the moment he was hurt. Then the season started with him as the starter. WAY better practice / training situation for him this year.
Good points and hopefully some larger receivers including Jeffrey will help in the red zone this year. That was something Pederson mentioned yesterday that they were looking to address this offseason too.
The weird part is Alshon, Torrey, Gibson, and Mack are all vertical threats.
Pump will do a nice job hiding underneath them.
You can’t play Pumphrey on passing downs. Unless you split him out. Cuz people can say he’ll be fine as a runner but that dude isn’t stuffing a blitzing LB
With his frame, he’s probably never gonna put on the size to be a strong pass blocker overall, but I don’t see why he can’t at least develop into a solid cut blocker which would allow for passing game usefulness.
You can’t cut block every time
Well yeah, but a really strong cut blocker can still break even as an overall pass-blocker, no? Which would allow for his actual receiving skills to be the determining factor of whether or not you wanted him on the field in such situations.
You can’t use him on 5 or 7 step (can’t cut on those). If all he does in protection is cut, that’s gonna get picked up on real quick and guys will time it to either swat him away or jump him. Also it’s generally gonna screw with your protections becauese you can’t use him on any DL, so teams that run games.
You could say we’ll just have him run swings but team’s will live with that if they get to kick the shit out of Carson.
These all seem fair critiques, and you obviously know a ton more than I do. I’d like to think if he can put at least SOME good weight on his frame, and has the willingness to put in the work as a blocker, I mean he’s still gonna get his ass kicked more often than not, but he could at least turn into someone you’re not afraid to have on the field for all the reasons you mention. While I’m no scout myself, I quite liked this guy’s take on his run skills:
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/847550194535337984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsection215.com%2F2017%2F04%2F29%2Fmeet-prospect-donnel-pumphrey-running-back-philadelphia-eagles%2F
Sure but stick Marshall behind a high quality OL in the MWC and the report reads the same. It’s just an incredibly fungible skillset.
He could probably stop Sidney Jones on a blitz.
This Summer:
What Happens when a piece of paper hits a feather?!
We Bring You:
D3FB has a stroke
You could argue that this is the worst record in the NFC łet alone the NFL? Ok…
All of the ‘ draft grades’ are always inflated and if you go to most websites most teams are A- to B which is ridiculous.
I 100% agree. Folks need to be more aggressive in giving out Ds and Fs.
As if handing out draft grades today ISNT every bit as ridiculous as handing out W’s and L’s as soon as the schedule is released.
I agree, but if you’re going to give them out………..stop inflating.
Fair point and it is always a ‘hot take’ to rate initial reactions & assign grades.
Draft grades? Don’t make me laugh.
The entire notion of grading the draft means you trust the media evaluations more than NFL front office evaluations even tho the media is fed true info while also being fed tons of misinformation as part of the info in which they are basing their evaluations/grades off of. Not only are front offices feeding the media misinformation, but agents are also feeding them misinformation.Anyone handing out grades the day after the draft is as big of a joke as the dopes that hand out W’s and L’s for each game as soon as the schedule comes out. Handing teams an A or B grade today is every bit as ridiculus as handing a D or an F today. Lol DOESNT make you any less absurd because you go with default pessimism instead of optimistic fans who give it an A or a B. Both groups are just as Ridiculuous for thinking they could realistically have a great idea today about how we did in the draft.
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Draft grades? From the same people that do mocks for months yet only end up getting like 3 or 4 first round picks correct? Outside of Fournette to the Jags and McCaffrey to the Panthers, mcshay and Kiper got like 1 or 2 other first round picks correct, yet their evaluation is the standard by which we grade NFL front offices the day after the draft?
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No one drafts for next year, so how do you grade it a day after the draft? Basically comparing what GMs did to the predraft value the media put in your head, even tho a large portion of the media predraft evalution has plenty of misinformation built into it
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I love how some Eagles fans ripped the front office for not taking Dalvin, Foster, Allen at #14, even tho the rest of the GMs agreed more with the Eagles value of those players instead of the predraft media thaf valued them as top 15 picks. Fans are forming opinipns without the medical that plays a huge role in assigning value. You can bet Medical played some role in jonathon Allen, Dalvin Cook, and Foster falling further than expected. Yet without having the medical and background info that played into the decision for many teams to pass on them, we just ignore it all and pretend that they were really worth top 15 picks even tho it didn’t work out that way. Just because Allen, Foster and I Cook are heakthy today, doesn’t mean their medical should be taken any less serious than Sidney Jones who is currently injured. If Dalvin DIDNT Go to the 40’s it means more front offices agreed with the value the Eagles placed on Dalvin, instead of the value the media placed on him talking about him as a top 20 prospect, Reuban Foster fell to the very end of round 1 that means a few other teams agreed with the Eagles not taking him in the Top 20, yet we take the medias predraft evaluation as gospel and hold it against the Eagles if their evaluation was different than the media predraft value.
I imagine Carson is happy with the signings of Smith and Jefferey. Those guys are an enormous upgrade of his receiving corps. I was hoping to draft Cook to boost the running game. I wonder if we would have taken him if he wasn’t chosen two picks before we got Jones.
I’m glad we didn’t take Cook. The stress of waiting for the other shoe to drop with a guy who has that many arrests and lives in Miami is too much risk.
I feel that way about Mixon (except for the Miami part). Not Cook, though, based on the things I’ve heard him say I think he’s a man who has outgrown his juvenile behavior. Time will tell.
I agree with you on Mixon. The fact he tried to run over a meter maid this spring doesn’t speak to any level of trust I have in the guy.
I still don’t trust Cook. The police department in Tallahassee is notorious for sweeping Crimanole behavior under the rug and if he’s going to continue to live / hang out in Miami trouble will find him and his new found riches.
I suggest he get a really remote cabin in upstate Minnesota or Canada for the off-season and delete every number in his cell phone that belongs to anybody that knows him from Florida. I see WAY too many guys involved in nonsense in Miami, Atlanta, and Vegas in the off-seasons.
Yeah and game tape almost always matters more than measurables but the fact that he tested so incredibly poorly from an athletic perspective as a rb is very concerning
Certainly no one is going to argue that getting more offensive weapons and better guys for the defense would have made for a better draft. Even with hindsight, though, I have trouble seeing how they could have done that. What picks do you wish they had done differently?
Mainly Jones. Roseman didn’t answer yesterday when he might be back but I get the sense he’ll be out for the year.
Pumphrey strikes me as an absolute steal or a guy who just is too small too.
I trust the evaluation on Jones medical and think we will be a better team a year from now than if we had reached for a lesser prospect.
For Humphrey, I think your evaluation is about all you can ask from a late 4th rounder.
Talking last night at dinner with some friends and what this draft meant for the Eagles long-term.
Not that they ‘wrote off this year’ but they certainly didn’t make picks might have help address more immediate needs either.
If you figure that one of the big advantages of drafting Wentz was that they had him under his rookie deal through 2020, it basically gives them 2 more drafts and they don’t have a 2nd round pick either next year.
Makes you wonder if the Eagles really aren’t targeting 2020 and just trying to put out more competitive teams in the interim instead of being willing to endure a 4-6 win season.
How would they endure a 4-5 win season, and end up better as a result? I don’t think I follow.
That was really last season. Even this year they went with a lot of 1-year deals this offseason (and maxed out their salary cap) in an attempt to fill roster gaps and field a competitive team instead of another 6-8 win season.
What I still don’t get is that all of that blame is still placed on Kelly (who certainly played a part including Kendricks extension) but seemingly ignore several of the poor signings that Roseman made.
“Teflon” Rosie, you mean?
I think you’re reading too much into it. To have a stable team, you need a constant influx of young talent. That’s true in every sport, all of the time. If they are truly projecting these players for later on, that says more about that organizations philosophy for longterm success than it does anything about Wentz. Draft for the future regardless of what the future brings, and things will eventually take care of themselves.
Comparing RBs to Sproles just because they’re small does disservice to the talent that he has. He’s not good because he’s small. He’s good in spite of it. There are players you can compare to Sproles, but size shouldn’t have anything to do with it.
I don’t see Pumphrey as being anywhere near the same type of runner.
There are tons of athletic 170 lb dudes. Very few of them are athletic enough to make up for being 170 lbs.
2- Awuzie
3- Tankersley (with pick we used to move up for Pumphrey)
4- Ryan Switzer
4- Literally any other RB
6- Elijah Lee
I’m with you on 6 (5 comp) for sure. Would your guy instead of Pump been Marlon Mack?
You prefer Tankersley over Rasul?..everything i’ve read/heard about tankeralsey is that he can’t tackle and panics whenever he gets beaten…totally the opposite of douglas..is it the fact douglas is younger and only started for a year?
I’m cool with hollins…thought it was too early, but i dont have the intel these guys do
Totally agree with #4 and 6
I do. I think Tankersley starts day 1 and is a solid starting outside CB. He’s not the best tackler, but he can and he can stick people in coverage. And he did it for more than 1 year. I don’t think Douglas sees the field week 1.
Okay fair enough..
The thing that bugs me about Douglas is my buddy was the starting CB for WVU in 2015. Love him to death but he was a 5’10 185lbs 4.7 guy who was a camp body.
Do you think that Schwartz, given the wide 9 and the increased likelihood that runners may get to the backfield more often than usual, may have preferred Douglas for that reason? That and maybe the interceptions, though Tankersley is no slouch there. I’m not a good one to judge, but there is “not the best tackler” (which I am fine with for a good cover CB), and there is “He’s the least interested defensive back in this entire draft in supporting the run”, which is Mayock’s quote on him.
Mayock didn’t watch Ahkello?
To be honest I do like Rasul. It’s not the worst pick in the draft. I just don’t think he’s going to be ready to play this year. Which would be fine if we hadn’t taken a dude who can’t walk before him.
That pick falls more into the wish we’d gone a different direction than holy actual what the fuck Joe Douglas come catch these hands.
Yeah, the Jones pick is obviously for 2018 and beyond — at which time we will like the pick a whole lot more (recovery provided). In 2017, we still have a gaping hole at CB. If Mills played a lot last year, I’m sure Douglas will play this year, but we still need more help there.
But comparing to Bob’s criticisms, you have added fewer weapons and possibly patched one hole on defense, but only if you view Kendricks as more of a hole than the absence of Logan (debatable).
I don’t know enough to quibble over which 3rd round corner projects better in our system. My point was just that they got good value and generally good prospects in each slot.
hole? I view Kendricks as an injury milking asshole. 4 weeks with a “day to day” calf in which he said “I’ll be fine” is an unforgivable sin. F Kendricks.
How?
I have 2 WR. I have a RB.
Oh, I missed that you skipped over the Gibson pick. Still, I think your list is a wash with the actual picks based on Bob’s criticisms.
Switzer does something very specific that we don’t have on the roster right now. And is an established return man.
Any other RB doesn’t max out as 5 manufactured touches a game and hey maybe who knows he may probably not be a returner.
I could completely undo it the draft and rework from the ground up. I just stayed with the same positions to show how easy it is to say we fucked up some picks.
Well, I mean it is easy to say we fucked up some picks, like two years ago when we fucked up the third round pick…
“The Jordan Hicks pick came as a surprise and was easily the Eagles’ least popular selection. Why are the Eagles taking another inside linebacker when they already have a logjam at the position?”
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/5/3/8539583/nfl-draft-2015-eagles-grade-picks-rating-eric-rowe-jacorey-shepherd
Hicks received 55% approval after the draft, far behind the 97% that Rowe and JaCorey Sheppard received. My point is that day after reviews are often more disappointment at not getting the guys we want (like that dirty rotten Barnett instead of McCaffrey) than a superior evaluation to the FO guys.
I think you could certainly argue Pumphrey may be a luxury pick when we didn’t have room for a luxury pick. Hopefully it works out like the Hicks pick did. The other picks I don’t see a frivolous picks or reaches.
This is essentially reverting back to the “well you don’t know how it will play out so you can’t say anything for 3 years!” argument.
Which is hogwash.
Hollins is Hank Baskett, which is fine, except you know Baskett was a UDFA, not a high fourth round pick. His ceiling is not a racist Riley Cooper with ST abilty. Still probably not worth a high four.
Pumphreys skillset is a dime a dozen.
Gerry there were actual linebackers and safeties on the board with just as much ST ability and actual potential to start.
Not really sure how its hogwash though. Its true. I think Hollins could been a 3rd personally.
You would take a WR4 ST guy in the 3rd?!
Even Mayock said that he had him as a sixth rounder until these ST coaches threatened to club him to death.
Ive actually done fairly well with WR grades the past couple years.
Don’t make me say it man. Don’t make me put my Coates on
As far as rounds go. I had him pegged as a 3rd.
what will you say when these players excel on the field this season?
Yayy glad i was wrong. Doesn’t mean I shouldn’t have a well thought out, film and team building strategy based opinion right now.
no problem…however,it`s always better to look on the bright side of life
Sure but I don’t think about these things for fun and watch a lot of cutups to get to the day after the draft and go ¯_(ツ)_/¯
dedication …do like your input here
am not able to go further in depth than the few available sites on the net here in brasil faithfully check in daily here,eagles,etc… just your basic
so fun is the objective was a die-hard fan(family had season tickets (60-97),2 years goin to Franklin Field:) it does bother me for a couple of days after a loss,i will admit
As far as why it’s hogwash
https://twitter.com/shlynch/status/727127024763047937
https://twitter.com/shlynch/status/328839817196630016
I understand the thinking but it doesnt take into account what a player could be. I imagine their are 2 different fields of thinking. He makes a very valid point. The picks I feel pretty iffy about are Gerry and Pumphrey.
The point is you don’t spend $1000 on scratch offs, win $5000 and claim you knew more than everyone else and are a genius.
Shelton Gibson was a good pick because he has useful relatively uncommon skills right now, and a big ceiling. The fourth round picks have half of the first part and none of the second.
As far as 4ths go, everyone is getting a lottery ticket. Who knows who is gonna pan out. I wouldnt say i was a genius just that I had gotten that pick right. May happen again may not. Just have to keep trying and try to get better at the process. Thats what they are doing with Douglass, trying to get better.
If the game is to evaluate how well you used your resources, though, everyone would need to accept the current evaluations.
It is contradictory if people say we can evaluate today and the resources were better used this way, and oh yeah the reason my guys are better is because the evaluations on those guys are wrong, you will see one day.
If a team takes a punter round one is that stupid or should we wait 3 years?
Is there a punter who is ranked as a first round prospect?
But see right there. You’re basing the selection on what you presently know.
Exactly. Almost. Based on the current common wisdom, yes. What I know is shit.
I didn’t say you can’t evaluate the use of resources today based on what we know today (Sam’s point). What I said is that you can’t say you have a better way the resources should have been used, but it will only prove to be better in a few years when everyone sees that Mayock didn’t know what he was talking about with Tankersley and Pumphrey gets his first, second, and fiftieth football injuries because of his size.
If you want to evaluate a first round punter selection today as stupid, it needs to be because he was evaluated as a late-3rd punter taken in the first, not because he is a commonly agree first round prospect and you think those rankings are wrong.
Or, shorter, you can’t do exactly what you are criticizing as hogwash from the other direction.
Dude, someone has seriously crapped in your Wheaties today.
Fair enough. Maybe your guys are better than the guys we took. I know that I personally can’t tell today one way or the other and I know both you and the FO guys know a lot more than me.
I thought they did well in getting quality and value.
https://youtu.be/ZgbcCX1CC5o
Interesting dynamic, national guys seem much higher on the draft than the local guys.
Humphrey or Pumphrey?!
Okay, so Pumphrey is a hot topic. I knew nothing about him. Brian Pillion posted a link to twitter in a conversation below. Follow the link and scroll down through the clips. If someone were to tell you they were clips from Sproles in college I bet few people would question it.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/847550194535337984
And a few of my favorites:
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/847559002401767424
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/847560421733040129
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/847562500019060736
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/847564381105922048
He is either going to be shockingly effective in the NFL and make a lot of defenders and other teams look stupid, or is just going to be destroyed by the impacts he will take. He somehow managed to stay injury free his entire college career on some serious number of touches so there is a chance that he somehow holds up. Maybe he entire body is rubber.
I hope not. Taunting opposing players with “I’m rubber, you’re glue…” would be embarrassing even if it is true.
You didn’t even mean to rhyme that one, yet, still impressed.
Didn’t I?
(okay, I didn’t)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo_H67Uzt6s
Can’t say I see many similarities. Marshall is bigger but Pumphrey changes direction much faster to my eyes and looks way more elusive (which he has to be at his size).
Eagles were obviously targeting him since that is the one guy they did trade up for.
We did have a need for a primary RB and Pumphrey is definitely not that guy. You are not going to trust him to block very often. Seems more like a change-of-pace back, or even someone that could line up at slot WR. He may be destined to be inactive on game days this year while we still have Sproles. If his elusiveness does not translate, it’s a total bust. But if it does… he could be a very interesting weapon going forward. He should be awesome in shorts and generate plenty of buzz during minicamps 🙂
All the above does not change the fact we need a workhorse RB, and did not get one in the draft. Maybe the team thinks more highly of Smallwood, maybe the team thought the UDFA RBs weren’t all that much worse than the workhorse-type RBs available at that pick and wanted the variety, or maybe they thought they could pick up a good-enough band-aid at some point. Understandable to dislike the pick if there was a RB you really liked who you thought could be the long-term RB… Pumphrey is a boom-or-bust kind of pick.
How about this guy:
X is the top natural runner in this class. His ability to break tackles and maintain his balance is unmatched, and he is fast enough to break off big runs. He led the nation in rushing and if he was part of a big time collegiate program, X would have be a legit contender for the Heisman Trophy. His best games came against Fresno State’s toughest competition, including a 234 yard – 3 TD performance against Boise State in which he averaged over 12 yards per carry. He is the kind of back that can be trusted right away to give a strong boost to the ground attack. He will need time to improve his pass blocking and receiving skills, but according to the Fresno State coaching staff, there isn’t a player in this draft that will enter the NFL with higher character and/or a
Too bad X is injured all the time.
I’m not entirely sure that guy is going to be the feature back in 2017 😉
I just don’t see the boom. Like best case he’s a gadget guy.
Yeah, and I can understand that. Most guys that size are either total busts, or very occasional gadget guys that you’d never give a big contract to. It’s a very rare occurrence that you get someone like Sproles or Warrick Dunn who can make it work and be a real weapon for a long time, so the odds are against the pick. But, most guys that size don’t break Dayne’s record either. And those guys are unique — so doubtful he will play like Sproles/Dunn, but something of his own style.
There must be something the Eagles liked, but it’s also likely the role they envision is not the primary running back, but something else. Which means they were drafting with different criteria than most of us expected/wanted. What that is, remains to be seen.
Unless they actually expect Mathews to be back (exceedingly doubtful), it would seem they failed to get that primary back in the draft, which would have seemed a need. Unsure if the UDFA they signed could be that guy, or if they simply like Smallwood more than most of us, or if they will just settle for a veteran castoff later for this year. It is a bit odd that they could plan for a year with both Sproles and Pumphrey on the roster — almost indicates we’d have to go heavy at RB — but we’ll see.
I can’t say I’m in love with the pick — the odds seem too long — but just playing devil’s advocate. The “boom” I guess would be that he has something unique that works against NFL defenses and which becomes a matchup problem other teams have a hard time defending/practicing against.
The aim clearly was not to ID the most rounded RB who was available in the 4th round. That gets you Joe Average who excels at nothing in particular. One attribute was in focus – elusiveness. That’s the ability the RB had to have. Such a player doesn’t usually have blocking ability as a secondary skill; if he did, he wouldn’t still be there in round 4.
Not sure how a running back who does 5 reps can succeed in the NFL.
He did 13!
(Five on one day and eight on another day…)
hahaha
Extending his arms has very little to do with the RB job description. I’d be way more interested in his squat, vertical, and spider drill. I concede that he will likely not be stiff-arming anyone except kickers.
Yeah it’s too bad if you can’t do at least 6 reps, your touchdowns don’t even count!
I really like this draft class and the first wave of free agency.
Timmy Jernigan is an attacking DT along with Cox. Graham is relentless and has redefined the Mamulas (Pressures). Add in Barnett and the amount of pressure and production he had from college. I have named them the “Dirty Pocketeers” Opposing offenses will no longer have clean pockets.
For whatever reason I have taken a liking to Mack and Rasul. Partly with Rasul is relating to sleeping on floors and no money to eat. Mack is a gifted receiver that needs the structure to make him better. I think it will be fun to watch them grow.
Sidney will be red shirted most of the year but Pump will surprise people. Crazy production out of shotgun. They will have to teach him to block so that he can become a third down back. But they have a year to bulk him up while he can learn from one of the best.
It takes me much longer to get on a first name basis – sequence is “tight end from X conference”, then “TE from y college, then TE’s last name from that college, then maybe a “first initial w/ last name & that college. This usually a Dec thru April process. It’s only in May that I start to learn the first names for Eagles picks & maybe a few others in NFC East. Any other process is TMI in a short period of time & puts brain on overload. So Sidney & Rasul I could ID, but I really had to work on Mack”
I figured out Doug’s reason for drafting Pumphrey. Give them similar number jerseys and no defender can tell Sproles apart from Pumphrey when they’re behind the line. Have to say that’s pretty genius.