Random Draft Thoughts
Posted: April 28th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 279 Comments »When Roger Goodell started to announce the Eagles pick, I wanted him to say “Jonathan Allen”. That’s who I wanted the team to take.
The fact that the Eagles passed on him tells me their doctors had serious concerns about his arthritic shoulders. Allen should have gone in the Top 5. He slid down to the Eagles area because of the condition. The Eagles had to weigh risk vs reward with him.
Some of you wonder why it is such a big deal when the guy was just dominant in college the past 2 years. That’s a fair question. Allen played in 29 games over the past 2 years. He had spring practices, Training Camp and regular practices during the season. In the NFL you have OTAs, passing camps, minicamps, Training Camp, 4 preseason games, 16 regular season games and possibly the playoffs. That is a ton of wear and tear.
The level of competition is completely different. College football is played by boys and young men. Pro football is a man’s game. Players have incredible strength and power. They brutalize each other all game long. Playing against Middle Tennessee State is nothing like going against the Tennessee Titans. Allen’s body held up in college just fine, but the NFL is different. He might be fine, but there is serious risk as well. There is a reason teams spend so much time and money to do medical checks on prospects. That stuff matters.
With Allen’s shoulders not getting a passing grade from the Eagles, Barnett is the player I wanted. Malik Hooker wasn’t a good fit. I didn’t like Reuben Foster for the Eagles. I was fascinated with the thought of O.J. Howard, but Barnett was my preference.
*****
Wild…. Browns talking w/ #Eagles about potentially moving back up to 14 from 25…. Wild Draft, Folks. Teams thrilled QBs went early…
— Chad Forbes (@NFLDraftBites) April 28, 2017
Either CLE didn’t make a strong offer or the Eagles really wanted Barnett.
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Jonathan Allen didn’t slide too much farther. The Skins took him. This could be a great pick for them…if he stays healthy.
The Giants took TE Evan Engram. They have a ton of weapons, with OBJ, Sterling Shepard and Brandon Marshall. Eli has some guys to get the ball to. Will he have good protection? That’s the key question for the Gmen. All those weapons don’t do you much good if Eli is getting pummeled by Derek Barnett.
Dallas took DE Taco Charlton. Great name, solid prospect. With him and David Irving, Dallas has a pair of long, talented pass rushers. Irving flashed big time potential last year, but hasn’t played consistently. Charlton was an underachiever until this season. I guess Rod Marinelli thinks he can get the best out of the gifted DE.
*****
I have never been a fan of moving the draft. I’m a traditionalist and I liked it in NYC.
This has been a wild first round… lots of fun. City of Philadelphia should be proud with the job it did hosting this event.
— Patrick Causey (@PatrickMCausey) April 28, 2017
The city of Philadelphia put on a great show. More than 70,000 fans came out to cheer, boo and just have fun. There was a great atmosphere. Seeing the draft in NY every year was cool, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a draft like what we saw on Thursday night. That was special. Kudos to the league for choosing Philly and Kudos to my Philly friends for doing such a great job.
Philly approves. ✅#EaglesDraft pic.twitter.com/BK2jkmaToQ
— Philadelphia Eagles (@Eagles) April 28, 2017
That’s like a concert or something. That’s the NFL Draft? Crazy how this thing has grown.
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Reminder: when Jets fans boo their pick, it's adorable, but when Eagles fans boo, it's because they are terrible people.
— Sam Lynch (@shlynch) April 27, 2017
So friggin’ true…
_
I would like to say that I am so proud of our city along with the most passionate and loyal fans in the NFL. I am so proud to be a part of Eagles nation and one day when we win the super bowl we will have the greatest party the world has ever seen.
Barnett might not be the “Sexy” pick many wanted, but he has the potential to be a stud at a premium position of need. Nothing disrupts an offense more than a fearsome pass rush . Let’s hope he becomes an elite pass rusher for this franchise for the next decade.
I hope so. Our last 2/3 first rounders have been really uninspiring.
Have you been in a coma for 2 years?.
I’m not terribly excited about Barnett. I’m having trouble visualizing how his game translates to a perennial 12+ sack guy who terrorizes the opposition on every snap. My concern is that he’s only going to be a Trent Cole type (80ish sacks in 10 seasons as an Eagle) who isn’t exactly the type of star / superstar type player I think they lack and needed to get with pick 14.
I don’t see a bust at all, but he just strikes me as “a guy” who plugs along with 6 to 8 sacks every year.
“I’m having trouble visualizing how his game translates to a perennial 12+ sack guy who terrorizes the opposition on every snap.”
Those guys are like franchise QBs. The only way to really get them is to have a top 5 draft pick in most years.
You’re looking at it in a vacuum and by some arbitrary beliefs of value and what a 1rst rounder should be. I get your angle, but he’s playing on the DL that we already have + Long + development of Smith, Curry, McAllister, Means etc… + the added pass rush of Jernigan over Logan, + the fact that BG is really a stud #1. I know you were worried about that quote about Barnett being at best a “#2” DE – well we have a #1 and very very good if not great DTs. Everything you seem to be worrying about to me has nothing to do with what will happen at the linc on sundays – draftnick quotes don’t play OL.
I don’t know…it sounds like mike just doesn’t think Barnett is ever going to be all that good of a football player, because he doesn’t see his skill set translating to the pros, which seems like a valid gripe to have with a first round pick and not something born in a vacuum of arbitrary beliefs of value and draftnick quotes…whatever that means.
If he turns out to be Trent Cole 2.0, it will have been a fabulous pick.
In all fairness, Cole had stretches of really good play, where he was the guy on the D-line that the other teams was worried about. He anchored and solidified our pass rush for pretty much a decade, and on some quite good defenses too. Coaches from our division rivals have come out and said as much in interviews. And he played at a high level for us for many many years while being an exemplary pro and representative for the team. If Barnett turns into Cole, we have done very well in the middle of the first round, by all accounts. There are only a few real super stars/HOF’ers in every draft, the rest you hope become solid long term starters.
I don’t disagree with you, for me the people I wanted were drafted before our pick. On a positive note his measurables really aren’t that far off from Bosa.
Something people aren’t talking about enough is that this guy is only 20 years old. When I think of the jump in my athleticism from 20 to 24, it’s not even close. Of course the sharp decline in my athleticism from 24 to 37 is wholly depressing. It’s like I’m wearing one of those weighted training vests, except it’s made from malted hops and self loathing.
I’m gonna go eat some chips. They’re my only friend now.
Its crazy how young some of the guys are this year.
Barnett been only 21 when the season starts means a lot in terms of development.
JuJu is insanely young. He’s not 21 until November
Such a cool event. I was really disappointed with how the draft unfolded. I really wanted an offensive playmaker in the first and I love foster but barnett is a good player. I hope he can play to that level in the NFL.
Some of the guys I like there are left in no order (I will miss some guys)
Taywen Taylor
Dalvin Cook
Joe Mixon (the player, not the person)
Teez Tabor (guy can play)
Forest Lamp
Dan Feeney
Sidney Jones
Cordrea Tankersley
If we can get 2 of the above players in the next 2 rounds, I would be very happy
The list of names that tick off of the board in between 43 and 99 is going to be horrific.
And I like you list minus the two RBs. We can just add Zay Jones in there instead.
It’s going to be long… and painful for sure. But the ability to watch Timmy Jernigan play for the Eagles should ease the pain a bit.
So did we draft Cook in the 1st round?!
Amazing enough a guy with character questions playing a non-premium position is still on the board in round 2.
No we drafted a guy Jimmy Kempski mocked to us all the way back in January 😛
When you post double digit mock drafts I am pretty sure that something finally sticks for throwing shit against the wall.
He did 5 total, and when he was asked throughout the whole process, he consistently said he believes it’s Barnett. He picked it early and stuck to his guns – very consistently.
Jimmy used to be the Anti-Christ around here when he was criticizing the Chip Kelly teams. Nice to see his image has been rehabilitated to some extent.
Yeah. He’s really developed into much more than stick fingers and snark. I think he’s matured into his role and continues to. But seriously, he seems to have strong credibility now and likely a direct positive relationship with Howie in my opinion.
He did like 5… 1 per month and an extra one late
Hey Guys, do you know where I can watch the replay of the draft? Heard it was quite the event.
I don’t know if you can get NFLN but they’ll usually do a rerun during afternoon hours here.
闲着没事，随便逛逛，心静自然凉。
Interesting read from August.
“For all of his strengths and production, Barnett is not a flawless prospect, and he could be somewhat polarizing in scouting circles. Some of his statistics are manufactured, as the Vols do a nice job of creating matchups for him, moving him from his customary right defensive end position to the left side and allowing him to rush out of either the two and three point stances.
Barnett often guesses at the snap count, drawing some penalties for offsides when he gets too early of a jump and sometimes being the last one off the ball. He needs to do a better job of recognizing cut blocks, showing only average lateral agility and balance to avoid them, at this time. Barnett does not possess ideal flexibility to flatten around the corner and explode towards the quarterback, rounding off his rush. He needs to do a better job of stripping the ball, forcing just one fumble, thus far.”
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/top-nfl-draft-prospects-derek-barnett-a-productive-but-polarizing-nfl-prospect/
Again, I don’t see any way he’s a bust level player, but I have trouble seeing his as a foundational player on D.
“Some of his statistics are manufactured, as the Vols do a nice job of creating matchups for him, moving him from his customary right defensive end position to the left side and allowing him to rush out of either the two and three point stances”
Isnt this what smart coaches do with EVERY player except maybe OLs?
But what does Schwartz do is the better question. I’m more worried about the guessing at snap counts. If he gets hard counted into oblivion; he’ll be in for a lot of booing.
Meh, 99% of scoring reports have something like this in them, can go crazy obsessing this time of year. Have to have a little faith in the vast amount of data the team has access to and we don’t. Can certainly see why they like him.
The game tape on him was from the age 18 and 19. He is far from a finished product.
And now just a couple of the positive paragraphs from that article:
“Barnett is a quality all-around edge rusher, winning with a
combination of initial burst, power at the point of attack and hustle in
pursuit. He is not truly explosive off the ball but times his get-off
with the snap well, taking full advantage of the raucous crowds at
Neyland Stadium.
Barnett chops at the hands of pass blockers, showing strength and hand placement to keep opponents from latching on. He accelerates smoothly around the edge, but isn’t afraid to cut back inside between the tackle and guard if that is the closest route to the ball. This comfort in the pit allows Tennessee to slide Barnett inside to defensive tackle on occasion, where he shows impressive core strength when anchoring against the run.
Barnett creates a lot of tackle-for-loss opportunities for himself and teammates with his ability to get upfield, forcing running backs to either give up yardage in an attempt to run around him or cut back inside. He pursues well laterally and downfield, locating the ball quickly and showing good straight-line speed. Barnett is a physical tackler who is willing to leave his feet and wrap his arms to secure the immediate stop.”
Typical of so many Philly fans – just post the negatives. 90% of the article was positive, yet you decided to post the little bit of negative in it!
Ah man. If only we would have made that trade with Browns. They could have gotten Malik Hooker instead of Peppers. And we could have gotten Tre’Davious White in the 1st, RB/WR and a good pass rusher in the 2nd…
If the Eagles had dropped to 25 with the Browns, the Eagles would have selected Takk McKinney given how the draft went from 14 to 25. Especially because the Eagles had a hard on to select a DE no matter what.
Cleveland would have owed us 380 points. Pick 2-20.
I’m not sure if that would have been enough for the Eagles to want to move down.
Perfectly happy with Barnett. And extra 3rd or whatever would have been nice but i cant fault them for taking Barnett.
Can I understand why they didn’t trade down, agree with not trading down, but still be underwhelmed with Barnett?
I best wanted a pass rush who could bend the edge and they got ones in the draft. He can be a terror off the edge. I think this pick makes sense even if it isn’t sexy.
If they dont draft at least one CB today then i will start to worry.
Yeah, I don’t see a clear projection of Barnett as that impact type of a player. I’m just worried that the best we’ll be able to say about him is “solid” for a lot of years.
Lots of people we calling Bosa a bust this time last year and Agholor was supposedly pro ready. People hated the Hicks pick.
I dont know what kind of player he will be but I dont think hes a guy that will make our pass rush worse.
good points!
Exactly, spot on
Pushes MS11 down the depth chart too!
Who would have you taken at 14?
And kudos for being so high on Corey Davis. Apparently the GMs agreed.
I feel just like mike, man. I loved Corey Davis. Thought he was the best WR I had seen come out since OBJ. Would have been ecstatic if we drafted him, but unfortunately he went way earlier than expected.
After him I wanted Sidney Jones, after he got hurt, Gareon Conley, after all that I was hoping maybe McCaffrey of Allen or Howard or even John Ross would be the pick if it wasn’t Davis.
By the time it was our turn to pick, the only guy worthy of the pick left was Barnett and maybe Howard. And, Barnett was one of the players linked to us that I was the most Luke warm on. So I get that he was probably the best choice of what was left, but I’m still kind of disappointed because I just don’t see him ever being special.
Who is this good pass rusher that was sure to be available in the 2nd? I’m not familiar with him.
Seeing Barwin washed out over and over at RDE at the most important position last yr was sickening to watch. This D got significantly better regardless of the corners.
For people getting up to speed on Derek Barnett here are some complete games of his to get up to speed with (which is far more useful than just watching highlight packagaes.
1st Game: Barnett vs Florida.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEDD4bmYHIg
Interesting game – he is pretty much a non factor in the 1st half, play is generally away from him in the run game and gets close on a couple of screens. Then the 3rd quarter happens and he suddenly he is getting pressure and defence comes to life. His sack here really shows off his ability to bend the edge.
2nd Game: Barnett vs Alabama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuY-dqf62HU
Again lot of the play is away from him – does make 2 huge plays, strip sacking and intercepting Hurts. Kept the energy up even in a blow out late.
3rd Game: Barnett vs Nebraska
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMPVh-3hRcI
Game where he looked the most consistently dominant. Neither Tackle could handle him 1v1, and they had to switch to doubling him quickly. Still got pressure and kept up his effort to get his sack in the end and to break the Tenn sack record.
Take away’s from watching the 3 games. He is a really interesting prospect, and a little different than many DE’s in the league. I understand the Graham comparison, they have similar body shapes and are not freak twitch athletes.
However there is something Barnett has that Graham really does not which is the ability to get really low and to turn the edge hard, there are 3-4 examples in the games (1 against Cam Robinson is really nice) where he just seems to be able to swim under the block he gets so low turning the edge – Barnett has really special body control and flexability. There are very few guys who have his body shape, power and ability to bend the edge to use as a comp, the only one i think is a really fair comparison in terms of hight/weight/speed/bend is Suggs.
I don’t think Barnett is going to be a 18+ Sack guy, but it would not surprise me if he had multiple 10-12 sack seasons, and if he can produce that in the NFL he will be a huge addition to a DL with Cox and Graham already on it.
It’s a custom here to jump on someone who has a different opinion or who questions a pick. When someone puts up a well thought out, well researched opinion – you sadly don’t get any ‘up votes’ or comments. The saying goes something like — If I have something nice to say, I won’t way it. (or something like that)…Any way — great post Fufina – always enjoy your insight and thoughts.
Yeah, he got 11 upvotes.
up to 13 now. Compared to the 40+ plus comments of “you’re negagtive” above…
Add in the fact that he’s only 20, and I’m really liking the pick. He can gain so much more strength in the next 2-3 years in an NFL training program.
He may not have an insane first step like Garrett or Solomon, nor does he have a ridiculous spin move like Harris…but one doesn’t get 33 sacks (28 against the SEC) on accident. He’ll never be as stupid athletic as Garrett, but there’s a chance he could end up as or more productive than him; most of the things he lacks can be coached into him, like better counter-inside moves against some of the more athletic OTs like Tyron Smith.
Oh, and he’s also playing across from some guy who had to become a beast technician to survive in the NFL after some of his athleticism was sapped from injury….I think BG teaches Barnett a lot.
Yes, especially at #14. People here tend to forget, we didnt actually have a top five pick. Flawless prospects dont last till 14. But solid players with good production do, and at DE you really want that.
You’re late to the party but welcome!
I really hoped this was the year that we finally dealt with our CB situation. It won’t be and I really wonder if we will get even one long term starter out of this supposedly historic cb draft. More likely, we get a couple guys in 3-5 range and have this discussion again next year
There was nobody worth it at 14 at CB imo.
Also, no matter who we picked this year, we most likely wouldnt know if the player was the right player, as CBs historically struggle the first couple of seasons.
Let’s say we did trade back with Cleveland. You feel better about Barnett than the combination of say Tre White and Jordan Willis? I sure don’t.
How do you know White would be there if we traded back? (Who knows who the Browns would pick, changing the whole dynamic after that pick) and how do you know Jordan Willis will be there 43?
I take Barnett+ one of the guys I wrote below over Tre White+Willis
It would White + Willis plus whichever of those guys you wanted below.
What kind of pick are you expecting to get?
Moving from 25 to 14 seems pretty clear to me would have cost that 20th pick in the second that they have
Lets say we could get that 2nd round pick (I really doubt it), who says White would even be there at 25? (cant just assume the same guys will go in same order after a trade unless Brown was after Barnett)
Then pick different names, I don’t care. I’m sick of using all of our high picks on the lines, which somehow still take up a huge amount of our cap space and yet are just ok.
You have a GM, HC, DC and VP all from the school of thought that you build from the lines.
Simply put, the people making the pick all believe in value of DL
Cool and I disagree with them.
That’s why you aren’t employed by the NFL and they are
Falling back on tropes already.
If by “trope” you mean “truth”, then yes. Or, are you employed by the NFL?
No, which makes my opinion disliking the pick just as valid as your opinion liking it.
Those clever people employed in the NFL and media are currently writing articles on how 99% of the choices are great fits. The grading of the 1st round are majority A’s. Yet most will fail.
Why are people complaining at peoples complaining?.
Why not just block the comment sections of every article and stick a fat smiley face on every eagles website.
Because this is the time where these guys want to rationalize every move the Eagles make so they’re in the process of convincing themselves that Barnett is some guaranteed 10 sack a year guy where no contrary opinions are permitted
Go back and read. I was high on Barnett for a long time.
Sorry not directed at you. I appreciated the discourse with you and hey, if you would prefer Barnett over the trade back you’re opinion is as valid as mine. Just the dudes who want to dismiss my right to have an opinion because it doesn’t jive with theirs.
Nobody is dismissing your opinion, just your know-it-all armchair-GM mentality, overall negativity, and repetitive posts telling everyone you are unhappy.
My overall negativity because I voiced displeasure with one pick. But here’s a solution that should solve all of your problems (at least the ones that manifest themselves on this message board), ignore me as I will now ignore you.
I have a feeling that if we took a CB in the first round, you still wouldn’t be happy.
You’re incorrect. And you really have no basis for saying that so you can f off
My basis for saying that is your incessant whining.
Oh ok, what other picks have I complained about in the past since you clearly know me so well. Go on….
If the Eagles had take Lattimore, he would have complained that he has an injury history
Unfortunately Lattimore was taken before our pick and Sidney Jones and Gareon Conley were sniped off by fate herself. Not many other options unless you really wanted them to take Humphrey or Tredavious White at 14.
Some people are just never happy
I barely ever post here so you can’t possibly have an informed opinion of me. I loved Wentz last year, hated the Chip drafts, loved the couple before that.
I admit that our continued refusal to devote resources to solving cornerback is a sore spot for me. How does that translate to never being happy?
Draft is young.
We all know you based on your couple of comments here this morning. “Continued refusal to devote resources, blah, blah, blah…” It’s ONE FREAKING PICK! They Eagles have a 2nd round and two 3rds coming up (let alone the rest of the draft). Every talking head keeps telling us how stacked this draft is with secondary players.
Should they have reached to draft a CB who wasn’t worth it in the 1st? You’d complain. Should they have mortgaged the rest of the draft to move up to draft Lattimore (with his potential health issues)? You’d complain.
Oh they have two 3rds this year? Very informed opinion.
And here is how unbelievably stupid you are. You say you know who I am because of my opinion on “ONE FREAKING PICK” but somehow use that to make an assumption as to my opinion on all picks instead of “ONE FREAKING PICK”
You clearly are a very intelligent person. I’ll say hello next time you fill up my tank at the gas station.
A great pass rush does a world of good, for the secondary.
Sure and if Barnett is a great pass rusher, I will happily be wrong. But these “high motor” DEs don’t exactly have a great track record for us, which is why we are constantly drafting DE help
Then, lets all hope you are wrong. No one has a crystal ball, so it’s a crap shoot.
I don’t think anybody projected a CB in round 1. It’s believed to be the heaviest cb and rb draft class. I believe they aren’t done drafting yet, so there’s hope for your quest of cb’s…
It should have been addressed before the draft. The last several years have all been a rolling clusterf__k at CB. The high point was Sconces! From paying big money to an overrated system CB to jettisoning a 2nd year player to the underwhelming swing and misses, this year they didn’t even try. Which left us in the position at 14 when picking a CB would be bad value.
Now we’ll pick up some second or third day picks and guys who get cut and hope to get something that doesn’t sink our team.
I was Jones’in hard for a round 1 corner. Hardley a Hump-hrey day went by where I wasn’t thinking about interceptions or watching WRs get folded up like cheap portable seating.
But, I’m down with the Eagles getting what amounts to their pick of the litter of pass rushers from this class.
And, there’s still CB talent on the board that can be had in rd 2.
Does this mean that guy Sean Stott or whatever will now be gone and we’ll only find him if we for some reason go to some Carolina Panthers blog?… just sayin
Hopefully his sources inside the Bank of America Stadium are more reliable than the Novacare ones.
We will never see him again.
wait what, is he a Panthers fan? what was he doing here?
See my response to Cho
Why would he leave?
He was first a Christian McAfferey fan, second a person, third a football fan, and maybe – just maybe – an Eagles fan after that – really truly not sure.
haha
And a Devin Nunes fan (straight shooter and patriot). Sorry couldn’t help myself, back to football.
You know that feeling when you wake up an hope whatever happened the night before was only a dream? Well, we actually did draft Derek Barnett with pick 14. Damn it!
After sleeping in it I don’t feel better about the pick. I think that the argument that “the eagles are a better team today” is total BS. Of course they are. They got to add a first round pick. That doesn’t make it the correct pick.
Barnett isn’t garbage. I get what people like about him. Highly productive, good motor, can bend. I just don’t get how people watch him
lumber around on tape and think he will be an elite NFL pass rusher. I think people get too caught up in the results that they don’t focus on how those results are being achieved.
I personally would have taken Hooker, Conley, or Harris (if they needed to take a DE) with that pick. Those 3 have the ability to be impact players that other teams must game plan around,
Hopefully this is the last time we will be picking in the top 15 for many years. This was our best chance to add that true difference maker. I think we wasted that opportunity, but hey, “we are a better team today than we were yesterday.”
I don’t think the team is better either with that 1 pick. Not this year anyway. But his future should be bright. Somewhat feel like the Eagles now really need to nail the next few picks though…if they hope to see improvements this year(for the record – I don’t have high hopes for this team anyway – next year though)
I don’t care about this year. I’d take Cooks and pass on CB again because we aren’t winning anything this year. I’d take Lamp for the same reason. I’m BPA because we are building towards something greater than this year. That’s why I don’t like Barnett. He wasn’t BPA in my book. To me he was kind of forced because they knew they needed an edge rusher and he is perceived as a safer pick.
That all might be true….it was a safe pick to be sure…
I think that so what bothers me most of all. We had all this talk about Joe Douglas and how the draft was going to change. This is the same Eagles. They draft safe. There is no philosophical change here that is going to change our fortunes. This is status quo.
Barnett is a Mike Patterson type pick. Not flashy, never elite, but plays forever. The difference is MP was like pick 30. We will go to Seattle this year and see what it’s like to play a team that focuses on adding high ceiling players. See how well our safe picks match up against true talent. And they do it by trading back every year.
Eagles pumping their chests with — We signed on a master talent evaluator. We signed on a draft wiz who took Baltimore to new heights with his wizardry. He grades in a way not other evaluator grades. He’s unique and un-conventional — With the 14th pick of the nfl draft — Eagles select a player that an entire fan base could have selected with only knowledge of a chart.
…
I’m not disappointed with the pick — I just expected – different…
Exactly. Barnett is just my whipping boy, but not the source of my ultimate frustration.
like when Jerry Seinfeld dated the gymnast 🙂 …
The Seahawks 1st round draft pick since Earl Thomas:
16: German Ifedi, Guard, boring pick
15: No 1st rounder
14: No 1st rounder
13: No 1st rounder
12: Bruce Irvin, athletic DE, they converted to SAM and didnt pick up his 5th year option
11: James Carpenter, T, not on the team
Look at the Seahawks draft since 2012 (the year they go Wagner and Wilson). How many drafts would you swap with the Eagles?
I look at more than 1st round picks. I’d take Frank Clrke over Barnett for example. He was a 2nd round pick.
He really reminds me of an early 2000s Andy Reid lineman. One of those solid guys that can play and will help you win plenty of games, but lacks that extra edge of talent that puts you over the top.
Of course there better, they could of not had a first rd pick and had to wait till 43. This is all a plus from where I see things. I would rather have a Barnett at 14 who will only be 21 when the season starts, then to not have him will all of the needs for this team
“I just don’t get how people watch him lumber around on tape and think he will be an elite NFL pass rusher.”
I get that most scouting reports say he is not a quick-twitch player, but your use of the word “lumber” seems to be a reflection on his slow combine results.
Partly, but more that he looks slow on tape. Add in his slow 10 yard split and you have a guy that lacks explosiveness.
He had the flu at the combine and didn’t participate on Saturday with the defensive ends while he recovered. While still under the weather, he ran on Sunday with the defensive lineman. Again, he had the flu virus, not a cold.
Howie indicated he had an ankle injury at his pro day.
It doesn’t appear that those numbers are accurate.
Marshon Lattimore and John Ross pulled Hammies while running their 40s. They ran 4.36 and 4.22 respectively. Jason Avant had a cast on his hand while he ran his 40. He was still slow when it came off.
Maybe he runs a little faster without those issues, but likely not by much. He is what he is. A solid pass rusher that lacks the explosive traits to be a dominate force. That’s ok. He does a lot of other things well. He just shouldn’t have been pick 14 because of those limitations.
I’m assuming you never had the flu.
If he had improved at his pro day I would feel differently. He was the same athlete at his pro day. Maybe he had a slight injury that slowed him a bit. I just think it did much. His times backed up the tape. His lack of athleticism was a surprise to no one. If you want to believe is a drastically better athlete than he test go ahead, but his tape shows that the testing was pretty accurate.
You were at his pro day?
“but his tape shows that the testing was pretty accurate.” Joe Douglas disagrees wth that statement and said so last night in several interviews when questioned on his subpar workout numbers.
Have to admit, I am disappointed. Eagles didn’t get the flashy player I wanted on offense(they were all taken). Nor did they get the defensive guy I wanted (Conley). Instead they got a very young, solid pick. Someone who has several veterans who can coach him along. B- grade from me. However, at 14 — very rare there is an A grade because that’ll mean 13 other teams whiffed. B grade is good enough.
This draft seemed to have a ton of players with first round grades with various major red flags, whether health or character. Moreso than any draft that I can remember. I think for [i]this[/i] draft, Barnett is a good outcome given the other talent available. It’s not a great pick as you pointed out, but definitely a solid one.
Exactly. Thought it was interesting that a few players with injury/questions were still drafted. Giants fans were texted me about the pick last night, kind of teasing about a ‘who’ … my reply was simple — who on their OL was going to stop him. LOL.
I don’t get this mentality. We had a top 15 pick and you are happy to have a “solid” player. What’s going to happen if we start picking in the late 20s.
My mentality is based on this draft alone. In my opinion (and suuuuuper amateur analysis), there was only one player who was a blue chip talent and that was Myles Garrett. A lot of the other players available had red flags for character, health, or health and character. If we ended up with Derek Barnett in a top heavy draft, I wouldn’t be happy. I’m more interested in what we do in rounds 2-5 given the depth of this draft.
Next year, I’ll feel differently as I felt differently last year (of course I was ecstatic with Wentz). Not all drafts are created equal, and not all #14 picks are the same based on available talent pool.
I am willing to miss on players due to character, healt, etc as long as the players I hit on are studs.
Remember when Chip said if you start making exceptions on size eventually you have a small team? I feel the same way about talent. If you start making exceptions and play it safe by draft solid/average talent than you will have an average team.
My issue is less to do with Barnett the player and more with an opportunity lost. Barnett was just the poster child for mediocrity for me and why I have been so against him.
I guess there’s the difference. I described Barnett as a “solid” pick, but I do think his ceiling is higher than what you believe his ceiling is. To me, a “solid pick” in the first is still a pro bowl player. Sure fire Hall of Fame? No, but still capable of multiple pro bowls through his career.
It’s not a great pick? Let’s just wait and see. You can’t judge the pick till a couple of years later. Case and point many sites have NA17 positive reviews after he was picked, and look how he’s turned out. Let’s see how he does
One thing. I have to give the Chiefs kudos for drafting for the future instead of been scared and drafting for need.
One can argue if the QB they went after is the right one, but Mahomes combine a lot of what made Favre, McNabb and Vick successful (and also some of the worst qualities)
If Mahomes is willing to be coached, I can’t think of a better landing spot for him than with Andy.
I’m totally fine with this pick, we could of not had a first round pick (thanks you Vikings).. I wonder how many people would be complaining about not having a first if teddy didn’t get hurt. I also don’t get how people point to his combine performance to knock the guy and his production when a DE from BC killed the combine and went before a couple hall of fame players that year. Our current DE are closing in on there 30s and C.Long who is in his 30s only signed a 1yr deal. The corners will be there the rbs will be there, let’s just see how tonight goes. But let’s just take a step back and be thankful for the Vikings lol
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-gD2RUXcAI3ZV8.jpg
Classic, F#$*k DALLAS! LOL
It’s crazy to me how people are critical of certain picks when teams have so many scouts who spend hrs upon hrs driving to campus to campus watching practices and games 365 days of the year. While most fans admittedly don’t watch too much college football all year long only to start paying attention during the senior bowl week, then through the combine were people fall in and out of love with players. Then people start to “bang the table” for player x, y, and z, when just months prior they had no clue about the guy. Then after mock after mock from hundreds of sites around the web create buzz and a hype builds to a raucous anticipation and excitement when draft day approaches. Then when the pick is in and your guy is either gone or not taken somehow the actual pick is a bad pick, a solid pick or a pick with terrible value. “Well we could of traded back and taken player x” is the argument most want to make, well sorry this isn’t Madden and it’s just not that easy to make trades with no guarantees of the player you wanted to trade back for will be there when you do. To borrow from the Sixers, just trust the process people and trust the paid professional’s who do this for a living when most people only start to somewhat follow the draft and the players till around February.
Nah, man, the point of the comments is to discuss. I think we all pretty much know we don’t know $hit. It’s more fun this way.
That’s the same as the blind leading the blind, or stupid is as stupid does lol, your right it’s about discussion and coming together as a fan base, but I’m sick of the attitude of the armchair GM mentality of some people who swear up and down that they could do better. people can discuss, complain, cheer do whatever I’m fine with it really but keep everything in it’s proper context, and also alot of people need to chill more lol.
Given the ‘experts’ inability to consistently pick players that outperform expectations though, you have to consider that though too.
True, but every team gets it wrong, some more then other i.e. browns, jets, Jacksonville the raiders of the mid 2000s it’s a complete crap-shoot that requires a lot of homework but more luck.
Really, I love it and enjoy 99% of the guys on this blog.
You might be interested to know that in some fields, experts perform no better than average people, and in some fields, the longer you’re away from your training the worse you perform. Doctors, for example, diagnose some diseases worse the longer they’ve been practicing because they forget medical school. Despite all that stock-brokers know, they perform about as well as darts being thrown at a list stuck on the wall. NFL execs have a similar batting average. So despite that they know so very much more than all of us, they don’t really tend to do so impressively. The Eagles drafting has been nothing to write home about over the last decade.
I take the attitude you’re mentioning as passion and personally I think it’s both entertaining and enjoyable. But it’s all good. I like your stuff too.
Where they make their money is the late rounds. Anyone could pick the first round
That’s an interesting take with some validity for sure, and my thoughts expressed here aren’t reflective of the people on here because this has to be one of if not the best forum of discussion for football i’ve seen. It’s more so about the outside noise from people or the radio call in people, the draft is a complete crap-shoot that requires a lot of luck. The drama of not knowing is fun and having a group of players to want for your team is fun, the negativity that surrounds this area gets old which isn’t fun… I’m gonna root for the kid and everyone else who gets pick this weekend for us, up until they show that they can’t cut it lol
What? I figure I am always right and it’s the GM, coaches, scouts, and the rest of you guys who don’t know $hit.
about the Sixers…
Anyway, it’s totally viable to disagree with the philosophy behind the pick. Some teams love sparq, some love tape. Some like a nice mix of all of it, see what the tape tells you, then make sure the numbers match what you see. Great production through great skill is awesome, but it’s fair to question if that production stays if everyone you play against is bigger-faster-stronger than you.
Howie and Joe feel that there were justifications for a mediocre showing at the combine, and are betting on the tape, which they are absolutely more qualified to bet on tape than you or I. But no body gets to hide behind their qualifications from criticism.
That said, I’m fine with the pick. Everyone you could argue was a better prospect had some kind of ding on them. Be it Medical, character, or just wasn’t an ideal fit with us.
Good post
I’m fine with it too, it’s not like we have the power to change it lol so you have to be fine with it.. I guess I’m mostly sick of hearing complaints from people when the kid hasn’t played a down yet.
I do think you point is valid for those that just read a few articles and watch a few highlights to base their opinions on. That said many of us do study these players. I respect Tommy, D3, Mitchell, etc because they do their own tape study and come to their own conclusions. I don’t always agree with them, just as I don’t always agree with the eagles scouting department. Draft evaluation is a hobby for me that I do yet round. I have my own draft philosophy and develop my own opinions even if they go against the grain. Sometimes I prove to be right and other time I am wrong.
Also those eagles scouts have lead to the drafting of Nelson Agholor, Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Casey Matthews, etc. they are not perfect. Nobody is in evaluation do to the large number of variables related to a prospects transition and success in the NFL.
Barnett was the one guy that was a realistic pick at 14 that I did not want because it proved that the team building philosophy of this organization has not changed. We changed the players, but the game is the same.
people here are salty today
How so?
just complaining or second guessing, which is fine of course.
typical new englanders/massholes. “Whoa is me, I have so many championships…. snark snark snark….”
I am not a NE fan I live here. Also, calling me names and picking this argument with me is kinda the definition of being salty.
Oh my bad – I wasn’t intending to speak about you at all – whatsoever. I was referring to the people I knew when I lived in Boston for 5 years. And some friends and family up there. Honestly, wasn’t talking about you or your comment.
ok understood. Yes the we’ve won championships and are now asshole fans represent many, many people here. It’s prob made me like sports less, b/c it points out how ridiculous the argument of “I’m better than you somehow b/c my sportsball team is better than yours” is.
Exactly. There’s a real arrogance up there – and it’s not shocking or surprising, but it gets really tiring. I lived a few hundred yards from the garden for 5 years and the parades drove me crazy – and having to ride the t with sox fans all the time…so annoying.
Not me man we have rds 2-3 tonight! Cant wait like Bart Scott
Wentz on Mike and Mike coming up
Barnett is a stud but Johnathan Allen is better and Allen can play both inside and outside. We’re gonna be cursing Howie when Allen creates havoc twice a year when we play the Skins. But Barnett is ideal for Wide 9.
BUT – if it’s twice a year for 1 year, and then never again….
I hope so. His medical report must’ve been really bad for him to slip that low. Arthritis doesn’t concern me since most of the NFL play in pain that is treated wonderfully by narcotics (legal and illegal)
Arthritis causes cartilage to break down and once that happens there’s not much you can do.
Excellent point. I am reading the Skins board on Allen. Word is his shoulders are really bad but Dr James Andrews is the Alabama Team doctor and also the Skins doctor, apparently he gave him a clean bill of health.
And one scout said he heard his cartilage there is almost nothing – and that’s now….
You have to wonder how much of players from Alabama’s success has to do with the talent around them. Did Barnett have much around him in his 3 years? Idk.
I thought that too , is it the scheme or talent or both? I say both but for some reason the Eagles have avoided drafting Alabama players under Saban. While other teams seem to prefer Alabama players . I also recognize that Chance Warmack has dissapointed the Titans . But on the other hand, Allen, Foster, et al. get to practice every day against NFL caliber players.
Barnett is a stud and I’m happy with the pick but having Allen with Cox in the middle would be unstoppable. Just saying.
Everything was game planned around Barnett, and he still impacted games.
I liked Allen, too, BUT … 16 teams passed on him. And apparently no one below WASH was all that excited about trading up for him, either, even as he fell into their range. Allen might turn into a menace for Washington, but obviously something about the medical reports was turning teams off, and it wasn’t just the Eagles.
The redskins had one of the biggest train wrecks of front office upheaval ever this offseason. That coupled with they picked Allen when 16 others didn’t gives me hope the eagles made the right choice.
Agreed. He took a big fall, medical must have been bad. But when you look at this tape, he dominates.
Teams were undoubtedly scared. But until shoulder problems start kicking in, I will be cussing the pick twice a year. I really wish Baltimore had taken him.
https://twitter.com/Astonia67/status/857936698474455040
These facts do nothing to fan the flame of irrationality. Please stop.
Bellichick loves the 3 cone, so that’s something
someone I was happy to not see last night.
The 3 cone is proven to be a drill that translates for pass rushers.
easy on the proven stuff please. The top 10 3 cones from an edge rusher is a pretty mixed bag
Our boy Vinny having the 11th best 3 cone time
A correlation does not need to be 100% to be “proven.” I have no idea what rigor underlies the assertion, but it’s important to note that an established correlation doesn’t mean causation.
In any event, logically, 3 cone makes more sense than 40 yard in evaluating DEs. Not often that you’re running 40 yards in a straight line as an NFL DE. How well it correlates, I have no idea.
I know how correlations work. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that causation is very elusive in something this complicated and almost impossible to prove.
In something as complex an endeavor as NFL football, I highly doubt that there are any single factor causes for high performance. The best you can do is multiple high correlations, and even then, you’ll probably have an error rate greater than 25%.
it’s an interesting examination. If definitely matters.
here’s your best 3-cones:
https://www.mockdraftable.com/search?position=DE&beginYear=1999&endYear=2017&sort=ASC&page=1&measurable=3cone
here’s your vert for explosion
https://www.mockdraftable.com/search?position=DE&beginYear=1999&endYear=2017&sort=DESC&page=1&measurable=vertical
Here’s your broad for explosion
https://www.mockdraftable.com/search?position=DE&beginYear=1999&endYear=2017&sort=DESC&page=1&measurable=broad
Obviously the thing that sticks out is most of the guys that have the frame and/or tape to go with the stand-out performances tend to translate to success.
I love that our guy has the tape. I love his 3 cone. I’m cautiously hopeful that he would have had better numbers in more ideal conditions to match what we see on tape. I like the pick, I’m confident he’ll be a starter that ends up better than Curry.
The links might not have them in order, there are arrows on the right to list the names in order.
In all fairness, if you had asked me 24 hours ago to choose between Barnett and Harris, I would have chosen Harris, pretty strongly. Obviously, the people paid to do this stuff liked Barnett better. I’m hoping they were right, but there certainly is reason to be worried (that vertical is very concerning). I’m wondering if there isn’t something specific to the wide 9 scheme that they are focusing on (I notice Curry, who was brought in during a previous incarnation of the wide-9 here, had even better 3-cone times), that might be different from what they would focus on given a more traditional 4-3 scheme?
One of my intuitions coming into this draft was that it would reveal that they really don’t value CB as much as Reid did, and what value they do place will put more weight on tackling than coverage. Maybe I’ll be wrong about that, too.
I had a lot the same thoughts prior to the draft. I mocked Harris to us. Also had a creeping feeling, to quote myself “When we see Mills line 10 yards off and still get burned deep we think ‘my kingdom for a corner!’, but there’s a chance Schwartz says ‘where was my pass rush!?'”
But I really hope we manage to nab one of the good corners left tonight.
DEs in the wide nine are vulnerable to the stretch run and outside runs, that sort of thing. They are asked to shoot up field, but they still have to set the edge if the QB hands it off. In the wide alignment 4-3 you cant count on LBs to be filling up all the run gaps, especially on the outside. Especially today where teams play the move TE’s more and more (11 personnel). For this reason, you really NEED your wide 9 DEs to have that ability to also shed and play contain on the outside. If they dont, teams will just run right at you, over and over and over. The deal with Harris seem to be that he cant play the run very well. Barnett can do all of it. I think we saw the value of that in this draft, and I think the casual fan disregards the importance of this because we all just want to see ‘explosive first step’ ability.
Proven was maybe a poor word choice.
There are a ton of factors that determine a players sucess. The 3 cone has been a fairly reliable drill for determining short area quickness and agility., which is one of many traits needed to be a successful NFL pass rusher.
The 10 yard split is a great indicator of get off and first step quickness, but again is only one part of the equation.
“But he’s not athletic”….
hold up now, he was “sick” and “injured”
Those are reasonable points that should be logically factored into a balanced opinion. What does all of that have to do with haters? They don’t make balanced opinions.
lets call it convenient inconveniences for the prospect. I’m fine with the pick, because I’m very confident he’ll at least be a starting DE. But people are stretching pretty hard for this one. Like the Suggs comparison.
But that’s the thing – it wasn’t a suggs comparison. Joe Douglass didn’t suggest that he’s a similar caliber player, or a similar player to Suggs. He suggested two very specific characteristics that compare and in the context of relating it to a Baltimore guy because that was his reference point.
Come on – do you really disagree with that point I just made. It’s lazy to harp on the myth of a “Suggs comparison”…
It’s the one going around like wildfire, “screw underwear olympics, look at Suggs”. That’s a very loud and convenient about-face from conventional wisdom. You always want your numbers to match tape, or else you get questions. I’ve asked that question and examined it. I’ve come out satisfied with the pick.
I’m not sure if it’s just being lazy for homerism sake, but people are acting like they’re allergic to the conversation.
Good points. This is getting “meta” – but that’s one of the very specfic points Joe Douglas was referencing about Suggs – he was a guy who had great tape, so so combine #s, and his career proved that “matching #s to tape pretty closely” – in fact did NOT matter….
I’m just saying it’s lazy to call what Douglass said a “comparison to Suggs”. It was not a player comparison, but it is indeed spreading like a wildfire – as a direct player comparison. I just don’t like when something starts as _a_, then it gets misconstrued as _b_, then spread around like a wildfire as _b_ – and then used in debates.
That’s fair
I know, silly me, I forget it’s 40 yards to the QB
Honest question: what was his 10 yard split? Isn’t that burst/closing speed what’s important?
Watch his tape and try to argue that combine stuff matters more…
I’ve seen his tape, and I’m not really worried. I said last night I don’t hate the pick, but I don’t love it either. I’m just curious about his 10 yard split.
Fair enough. And I didn’t mean that with a harsh tone. But I think combine focus is somewhat valuable (but barely), and only really around the time of the combine. It’s a small factor that goes into the actual team scouting departments assessments, but talking about it now to me is pointless. Curiosities are curiosities, that’s fine obviously. But I think people harp on that stuff too much and for too long.
OH yeah, I”m with you. The game tape should matter more than the combine results. I think it really only matters when it’s a case like Teez Tabor. The tape shows a good player, but his combine and pro day results were too awful to ignore.
Good point. But in the case of closing speed for this guy – it’s one of the things that the tape shows – he excels at, regularly. And it’s all in the context of our DL which I think has the potential to create so many complementary sacks/tfls/ffs. It’s the overall package of Barnett, next two the other 3, and with Graham getting so much consistent pressure on the other side…etc…
The rotations DL wide are just so fun to consider.
Yep. With Cox and Jernigan pushing the pocket, Barnett should have opportunities even as a rookie. Schwartz likes to mix and match so I”ll be eager to see Cox and Barnett on the field together with Graham.
1.7 10 yard which isn’t good.
3 cone is probably more predictive as it combines ability to bend, redirect, and explode. He scored 88% percentile
Speaking of explosion… that 31″ vertical jump. If there’s one test failure that would concern me for a pass rush specialist, that’s the one.
I still like the pick though.
Maybe, but it really is just one metric. There is so much more to pressuring the QB (and stopping the run, which people like to pretend doesn’t matter anymore). He has great balance, strength, and quick adjustment capability. Like a good RB, he also sees the play well, reading and reacting.
There is one drill that most closely resemebles what he will be asked to do on a football field and it’s the 3 cone
Thanks. I need some reassurance there.
I’d say his burst is average at best. But there’s so much more to the game than that, we just tend to oversimplify things online.
Right, and that shows. I think the people looking at his tape and coming away unimpressed, or concerned, are going into it with preconceived notions. He looks like a football player on tape.
Always inevitably get comparisons to a player that is drafted but I don’t get the Suggs-Barnett comparison.
Just didn’t seem that apt. DF3B mentioned Orakpo as a comp and if that was the case it was a really solid pick.
Orakpo was a stud his first year though and made a huge impact right away. Barnett isn’t as old nor does he strike me a guy who comes in next year and has a big impact right away. Also is going to need his share of coaching to have the kind of impact Orakpo has had.
Douglas explained that the comparison with Suggs was merely about closing consistently. The part of the rush between beating the OT/OL, and taking down the QB/RB. It wasn’t a general player comparison or “watch him on film and you’ll see Suggs”….
Still struck me as a reach and they just mentioned Suggs because of the Jordan connection.
Perhaps. I think “reach” is bs though. Most people had him either top 10 or right there.
Those same guys thought Humphrey was going in round 2.
Oh yeah, I don’t give pundits much stock at all – but the whole “reach” claim is usually based off of mocks/”punditry”…so…
Nah, plenty had Humphrey high. Mostly early, but then again late. He only dropped out because it was the silly season.
Yeah, that was mostly a sarcastic response to the random hate vibes I got for being a fan of Humphrey this year. lol
Not a ‘reach’ as in where Barnett was drafted but the comparison to Suggs.
Oh. Got ya.
The comps come from their poor combine performance against the college production and tape
Orakpo could have had a better career too, just seemed like he tore his pec or something every year. Hopefully Barnett can have better health.
Orakpo made the Pro Bowl with 10.5 sacks in 2016, so his career is still going.
Yesterday I was initially underwhelmed by the pick but understand a bit more in context of what transpired in the 1st round & where the Eagles are at.
Basically went with a player who has a high floor and doesn’t have the injury/character/production questions that were lingering for so many other players. Also went with a ‘safer pick’ because Roseman couldn’t afford to be linked to yet another 1st round dud.
Still wonder what the Eagles see him realistically producing this year. Starter by the end of the season and playing 50%+ snaps early on?
He will be part of the rotation; probably fits in where Means played last year (MS3 and Means battle for a roster spot). We need 5 DE’s going into the season. Let him learn behind the veterans, with the goal of taking over next year.
Learn, develop, play. Patience isn’t an NFL strong suit, but we need to exercise it in order to be successful long term.
We gave up Bradford for Barnett. And Barnett costs a helluva a lot less. And he fills a position of need currently (depth) and going forward (starting potential).
This is the 2016 salary for the #14 pick –
Karl Joseph $11,895,437 (total) $6,842,185 (signing) $2,160,785 (cap)
This is the 2017 salary for the #14 pick –
PHI (FROM MIN) $12,800,418 $7,449,395 $2,327,349
In other words, factoring in the dead money for Bradford ($5.5m this year) he will account for $7.8m this year on our cap. In the end, no matter how it goes- this deal worked out perfectly for the Eagles.
We have our QB of the future- lets build around him, get younger, and develop some talent that can challenge for the NFC in 1-2 years.
Overall I like the pick. I can see where people would be concerned with athletic ability but when watching draft breakdown, I see a powerful 20 year old who is great at anticipating the snap, has good bend, displays a decent array of rush moves and can play the run. Like I said I can see the concern and if tall, lean, athletic pass rushers are your thing you may not like it. Overall I would give a solid A for this pick. Howard would have been another interest and as Tommy said there needs to be 2 people for a trade back. I think the Eagles got one of their 5 guys.
Would love to come away with a RB/CB in any order today.
This was the best moment of the draft last night:
https://twitter.com/JClarkCSN/status/857748872436883456
I wonder if he thought in advance, “Draft in Philly? Here come the boos.”
He gets booed everywhere. He embraces it now. He was egging on the crowd when he first came out too.
You can hear him in the video: “C’mon Philly! C’mon!” Of course when he goes home he’s consoled by the bajillion dollars he makes every year which I assume he keeps in a large Scrooge McDuck like vault.
Yup he has adopted the role of a heel. At least he elicits some emotion from the crowd in that role.
One of the few people though I see as being worthy of such booing though.
Could we go 2for2 on Vols today with Kamara? Can Obi play corner, will cook and Mixon both be gone or will they both be on the board at 43? What if we double dip on corners, do we trade up trade down, or trade a player or 2? What about Wrs for Wentz, what are rivals going to do should be another fun night coming. Only under 9hrs to go
Thumbs up or down on Barnett? Philly.com (10088 votes)
Yes – 7753 (76.9%)
No – 2335 (23.1%)
It has been trending up too and was around 70% last night.
If we can come away with Cook in 2nd and Sydney Jones in 3rd, I’m good with that. Maybe a Cam Sutton in the 4th
Lol at Texans, spent 2 firsts, a second, Brock to Cleveland for Watson
As soon as I saw that pick, I thought O’Brien wasn’t long for his job in Houston. That seemed like a desperation move.
I think they wanted Mahomes and were surprised to see KC go up that far
That’s even worse because then there’s a chance that Watson was a total panic move. I can’t imagine they’d do that…but…
I sort of doubt that — just from reading, sounds like Mahomes may have more potential but probably needs a year on the sideline (which KC can do) but Watson may be ready to play sooner (which the Texans were desperate for). So yes, all of the trade-ups seemed like desperation moves but given how much each team gave, sure seems like each had fallen for that particular player and could not stand the risk of letting them be taken by someone else (probably the Cardinals, who a lot of people mocked Mahones to).
Maybe, but they’re in win now mode. Sounds like they’ve convinced themselves that Watson can carry over winning a national championship. We’ll see, he certainly is well set up with that D and Hopkins.
And don’t forget the $$ to sign Brock, plus the additional $$ to bring in Watson.
Nice job on the mock but I think Kempski will be giving you some crap for the next year.
Check out @RealGlenMacnow’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/RealGlenMacnow/status/857962204511031297?s=09
It was an amazing turn out last night – utterly unprecedented to see a fucking draft with that kind of public turn out and involvement. NFL will have LOVED it as a product and i am sure the draft will be back on a semi regular basis every 4-6 years.
I’m hoping that it comes back again next year.
Think it would be hard to keep this kind of interest/hype back to back years. Come back in 5 years time and it will be fresh and exciting again. I would get a rotation of the big markets, Boston/NY/LA/Chicago/Philly. Southern states cities get more superbowls so i think the draft should be more for the East coast cities.
I think they’ll throw Las Vegas into that mix as well for the NFL draft to drum up enthusiasm. Dallas is trying to host next year as well. The thought behind coming back next year is that’s what they did with Chicago, despite obviously shitty numbers of fans when compared with the Philadelphia turn out.
Either way, I hope draft weekend goes the way things did last night- and that we get a bunch of game changers which will bring a bigger party to Philadelphia in February some year.
Luck had quite a bit to do with the turnout. If it was 45 degrees and rainy, it probably would have been a disaster. With that being said, no risk, no reward, and I think its safe to assume everyone was rewarded last night.
and nobody was shot 🙂
Hefe filter? My favorite
so I just set DVR for tonight, espn 1 hour show – for two rounds? that doesn’t sound right.
Switches to ESPN2 at 8 because of playoff basketball
Just DVR NFL Network anyway
Network was good last night- enjoyed watching it.
It’s consistently better coverage
Its generally pretty damn good until day 3 where it tends to jump the shark in the later rounds since pretty much none of the talking heads outside of Jeremiah and Mayock know any of the players.
wth that is stupid I’m glad I asked thanks. *goes back to TV to set it again*
I’ll look for NFL Network thanks. I am so used to apple tv and user friendly set up that I get frustrated turning on cable and trying to find where the hell is NFL network. It’s like 100 times harder than apple tv. So I was taping espn just b/c easier to find (low channel numbers). But I’ll stop yelling at the cloud and try to find NFL network.
NFL is better, I’d rather hear Mayock.
And “live” profanity. lol- that was great
Depending on your provider…new Comcast controller allows you to hit ‘sports’ button and shows all the appropriate channels. You can set ‘record’ from there.
I have 7 guys that I would like at 43. I would trade a 4th or 5th to ensure we land one of these guys.
Dalvin Cook
Forrest Lamp
Cam Robinson
Quincy Wilson
Kevin King
Chidibe Awuzie
Joe Mixon
I’ll take Zay Jones too. Hell, if theres not a trade down option and the board falls out horrible for us, I’d consider Sidney Jones heavily.
After last night we need to nail this pick. I want to avoid trading down.
We made the right pick in the first round, but I’m starting to feel the heat on corner, I know it’s a situation that will need to be solved over multiple drafts, but I’d like to start now with an early investment this year.
CBs are going to get cleaned out before 99. Pretty much all of the 10 teams in front of us to begin the night need a CB. I’d rather just give up a 4th or 5th right now to go get one of King or Awuzie (or even Tankersley) than sit on our hands take a RB and then either have to draft guys that won’t start this year or use that 4th or 5th to trade up from 99 for a lesser guy anyways.
In other words CBs are gonna start clearing out. Day 3 RB options should be pretty strong
I really hope we can land King, would be ok with Awuzie. (please please please for the love of St. Peter draft a corner)
I’m not into Cook, but would add Cunningham to the list.
The pick reminded me a lot of taking Graham and while we like the player he has become it’s been a long time coming. But obviously there were medical reasons for that.
Given the medical, we’re really lucky he is what he is today. After the micro fracture surgery there was something he lost that he will never get back, it’s tempting for me to imagine what he might of been, but then Graham had such a chip on his shoulder from that point on. Glad to have him on the team either way, almost luck that he stuck around this long (given his career survived both the injury and the transition to the 3-4 and back).
I was going to take exception until I read your second sentence. Also, Graham had to become a 3-4 OLB along the way, too. If he had stayed in the same system and not gotten hurt, he would’ve compared favorably to Trent Cole…who some have compared Barnett to And while some may want a sure HOFer (unlikely) from #14, if Barnett measures up to Trent, I’ll be very happy. (And yes, I know Cole was 5th round…)
Remember SACKSEER?
Derek Barnett, Tennessee
SackSEER Projection: 25.5 Sacks Through Year 5
SackSEER Rating: 81.7%
Derek Barnett is a prospect for teams that prefer production over measurables. He was the second-most productive edge rusher in this draft class behind Myles Garrett, recording 32 sacks in just three seasons of college football. Barnett also accomplished this feat in the SEC, so it’s not as if he benefited from poor competition. Barnett’s passes defensed rate was solid, if not spectacular.
Barnett’s combine performance, however, did not measure up to his on-field success. For example, he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.88 seconds — a time that is more closely associated with a run-stuffing defensive lineman, rather than a 259-pound edge player like Barnett. Barnett’s best historical comparable for success is Terrell Suggs, who was both more productive than Barnett and even worse at workout drills. A closer comparable, however, might be former Georgia edge rusher Jarvis Jones, whose excellent college production and poor workout results did not lead to consistent production at the NFL level. Given the disparity between these comparable prospects, SackSEER is somewhat ambivalent about Barnett’s prospects for success.
Compare:
Name College Proj. Round Explosion Index SRAM PD/Rate 3-Cone Sacks through Y5 SackSEER Rating
Michael Sam Missouri 5–6 -1.02 0.40 0.10 7.80 0.0 4.0%
At the bottom of the page is a chart of all of the SackSEER projections for edge rushers who received an invite to this year’s NFL Combine. Of great interest to most readers will be Missouri defensive end Michael Sam, who seeks to make history by becoming the first openly gay player to play in the NFL. The Football Outsiders staff certainly has a great deal of admiration for Sam’s courage, and we will be rooting for him to succeed. SackSEER, however, is a series of equations that are indifferent towards a prospect’s strength of character. In Sam’s case, those equations are not kind.
SackSEER is not a fan of Sam’s production, which may be somewhat counter-intuitive considering that Sam was the co-defensive player of the year in the SEC -— widely acknowledged to be the best defensive conference in college football. But Sam was not consistently productive over his career: he had only nine sacks in his first 37 games with the Missouri Tigers. Although he certainly had a nice senior season with 11.5 sacks in 14 games, edge rushers who are one-hit wonders in their senior seasons rarely pan out in the NFL. The lone exception is Tamba Hali, and Hali had the additional excuse of being miscast as a defensive tackle for his two years -— an excuse Sam cannot claim. Moreover, it may not be a coincidence that Sam’s senior season coincided with the ascension of teammate Kony Ealy.
Perhaps just as concerning is Sam’s average of less than a tenth of a pass defensed per game. Sam had plenty of time to accumulate passes defensed -— a whopping 52 games -— but collected few. Moreover, we have relatively good proof in the form of Kony Ealy’s good passes defensed rate that the scorekeepers at Missouri and its opponents were not overly stingy with awarding passes defensed to defensive linemen while Sam played for the Tigers.
To top it off, Sam’s Combine was even poorer than his 4.91 forty-yard dash time would suggest, as Sam scored below average on every drill that SackSEER cares about. Particularly poor were Sam’s vertical leap and three-cone drill, which were the second-worst and the tenth-worst, respectively, among the 320-plus edge rushers in SackSEER’s database. Sam’s three-cone, in fact, was almost a full second slower than teammate Kony Ealy, despite the latter being ten pounds heavier than the former.
Overall, there have been only 14 prospects that SackSEER rating likes less than Sam. Half of those guys had exactly zero career sacks (even if you exclude Brandon Jenkins, who has zero career sacks but was drafted just last year). Only three of those 14 players had, or are on pace to have, double-digit career sacks: Talance Sawyer, Robert Ayers, and Ellis Wyms. Before the Combine, some projected Sam as a third- or fourth-round pick. SackSEER thinks he’s closer to a seventh-round pick or an undrafted free agent.
Just finished with a lunch with me ex colleagues in London. Boy do I miss those liquid lunches.
Did we draft Calvin Cook yet?!
Thumbs up for the civilized lunches and a toast when we draft Cook.
I really don’t see the fit for McCaffery in Carolina. Cam isn’t noted for his touch or accuracy, esp on short throws. I don’t see how they maximize his skillset. Really thought it was a smokescreen predraft, but maybe Carolina is planning to reinvent their offense this year, go more traditional.
If Jax can pick up Lamp today, they could really make the balanced offense approach work.
He is a football player and they are a football team, seems like a good fit to me to be honest.
Yeah, if I lived in Philly I’d be hitting the bars by now, too. 😉
#analysis
Just being smartass
I doubt I would have ever pulled the trigger, but I’m actually a little disappointed we didn’t end up with White Lightning.
I really wanted to see them get Fournette, how do you stop him, clog him up before he gets going. Hard to do that when you are watching Cam too. Also I wanted to see him go to a team that loves to run the ball.
A fair amount of people called for McCaffrey to Panthers in their mocks claiming the perfect fit. I didn’t see it, but it’s clear that Carolina’s FO did.
It will be interesting, in both Carolina and Jax. It’s not like teams can stack the box against Fournette down there, not with Robinson, Hurns, and Lee. Should also make it a lot easier on both the D and Bortles. They should do whatever it takes to get Lamp tonight. He could be their Zack Martin. They’re close, they have a chance to put Coughlin in the HoF if they pull it together.
I’m happy with Derrick Barnett. But of course I really don’t know if he will be good. Further I don’t really know how to evaluate the dissonance between his great production and lack of elite athleticism. That’s why I’m glad the Eagles have Joe Douglas for that. It gives me confidence that based on his expertise they were willing to sort through a bunch of highly rated defenders a pick a guy they really wanted.
Now take a look at the defensive line. You can double Fletcher Cox but you leave some very talented guys one on one. That’s what I want to see – let’s fuck up some quarter backs. And by the way: Fuck Dallas!
Here’s an analysis of teams that could go cornerback:
31. Green Bay needs a CB but Dalvin Cook or Forrest Lamp could be their guy.
32. Seattle has Shead with a torn ACL and signed Parrish Cox. They could take Lamp if GB doesn’t take him or Cam Robinson . They have four 3rds and another late 2nd. I think OL Cam Robinson makes sense if off the field issue doesn’t bother them. King may interest them though.
36. Chicago needs a CB. They signed Amukamara , Cooper, and Webb plus they are unhappy with Fuller. Many thought Lattimore was a possibility for them. They could take a safety though – Budda Baker, Obi Melifonwu, or Josh Jones.
37. LA Rams – They have Trumaine Johnson on franchise tag tender, E.J. Gaines and Kayvon Webster at CB. They could take a CB or S like Chicago.
39. NY Jets – They have Claiborne and Skrine. They’re a big threat to take a CB but need a center and TE. They have Brent Qvale at right tackle. Is he any good? Will they take a QB again and grab Kizer though?
40. Carolina – They have Bradberry and Munnerlyn at CB. They need an OT though and WR is thin. Would they take Eastern Carolina’s Zay Jones to replenish their depth behind Benjamin and Funchess with Ginn and Brown gone?
41. Cincinnati – CB is possible as people thought Conley was a possible pick for them but they did take William Jackson last year. He tore his pec last season. They could easily take a RB like Mixon. They could also use a DE and ILB even though they signed Kevin Minter. They have Westerman stepping in at right guard but may look for guard depth.