Big Red
Posted: October 4th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 242 Comments »Sean McVay is the hottest young offensive mind in the NFL. The oldest? That’s Andy Reid and it isn’t close.
Big Red has his Chiefs playing at a high level. They’re undefeated, they’re explosive and they’re also fun to watch. Why the heck did the Eagles ever let this genius go?
According to radio host Colin Blowhard, Reid was run out of Philly because it is the dumbest sports town in America. Blowhard made a very compelling case, if you omit the facts and focus on half-truths.
- Reid is a proven winner with a great track record. The Eagles were fools to let him leave.
- Reid won with average to below-average QBs. The Eagles were fools to let him leave.
- Reid is a QB whisperer, having single-handedly saved the careers of Michael Vick and Alex Smith. The Eagles were fools to let him leave.
Discussing Reid’s departure is an incredibly nuanced discussion and not for mid-season, but let’s focus on the key points. Bill Walsh believed coaches needed to move on after a decade with one team. He felt players started to tune out the messages and the coaches got stale. A change of scenery was needed for both sides. There are rare exceptions like Tom Landry, Don Shula and Bill Belichick. For most coaches, change was needed.
Think about what Andy has done differently in KC. He went back to calling the plays, something he gave up years ago in Philly. Reid had a strong GM to run the personnel side of things so he could focus on coaching. He changed his playbook, on offense and defense. The 4-3 was out and the 3-4 was in. The offense embraced college ideas and became the most creative in the league.
Reid went 8-8 in 2011, with a team that was heavily influenced by mercenaries. Injuries destroyed the 2012 team, along with all kinds of internal issues, and the Eagles went 4-12. Reid and owner Jeffrey Lurie agreed it was time for a change. That was a mutual decision.
The greatness Reid brought to the Eagles early in his tenure was gone. The 2008 and 2010 teams were a lot of fun, but still very flawed. As Reid tried different things to get back to the old days, he got further away from them.
The change of scenery has been a fountain of youth for Big Red. He’s been able to start fresh and build something, just as he did when he got to Philadelphia. I think most Eagles fans would tell you that if the guys in green can’t capture the Lombardi, they want Big Red hoisting it.
As to the notion of Reid winning with average QBs, that would be news to Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia and Mike Vick, each of who guided the team to the playoffs. McNabb isn’t Hall of Fame material, but at his best, he was pretty damn good. Early in his career, he showed special potential and had some truly great moments. Garcia was terrific down the stretch in 2006 and helped the Eagles win the NFC East and then beat the Giants in the wild card game. Vick was magical at times in 2010 (I think we’ll all remember the MNF “Starship 7” game for a long time).
Reid did win games in 2002 with Koy Detmer and A.J. Feeley. Those were average QBs. Give Big Red credit for that.
There is no question that Reid should get a ton of credit for the work he did with Vick. Reid turned him from a runner who could throw into a true dual-threat QB. The only shame is that they got together so late. At the same time, Vick was a transcendent talent. He is the most dynamic QB I’ve ever seen. It isn’t as if Reid got the most out of Josh Freeman, a former 1st round pick who had some talent and one terrific season.
The man who saved Alex Smith’s career is Jim Harbaugh. Blowhard says the Niners got rid of him and Reid saved his career. Not true. Smith played well for the Niners and got hurt. Colin Kaepernick took over and did freakishly amazing things. SF traded him for the 34th overall pick in the 2013 draft. Does that sound like he was a bum that no one wanted?
Reid does need to get credit for having Smith play the best football of his career. Harbaugh saved him, but Reid has taken him to the next level. Let’s just not act like Smith was some castoff that no one wanted. Reid actually expressed interest in Smith while he was the coach of the Eagles. This is a player he has liked for a while.
I’m not going to link to the video ripping Philly because Blowhard is one of those guys who thinks all attention is good attention. I just wanted to set the record straight on some of the dumber points in his segment.
*****
If you watch the KC offense, you can see some old elements of the Eagles offense in it.
2002 – Using WRs to help the run game. First up was having them run the ball. James Thrash had 18 carries for 126 yards. That’s a tremendous amount of reverses and end arounds. That helped to keep the run game creative and also led to another benefit. The Ghost Reverse. This is when the WR would fake an end around. It caused the backside DE to freeze so you could leave him unblocked. Essentially, the WR blocked the DE and he didn’t have to touch him. This allowed the OL to go pound on LBs and helped the run game. The Eagles finished 7th in the league in rushing.
2003 – WRs James Thrash and Todd Pinkston decided to struggle at the same time. McNabb had to deal with an injury. Reid had to build his offense around the RB trio of Duce Staley, Correll Buckhalter and Brian Westbrook. They combined for 339-1218-20 on the ground. They also were lethal in the passing game, going 83-847-7. Think about that. The trio of RBs produced 27 TDs. That’s crazy. Reid used all kinds of screens, swings and every other pass route he could think of to get the RBs to boost the passing game. The final 10 games of the year were a lot of fun to watch. I loved that offense.
2010 – Vick took over as QB and the offense embraced QB runs on a regular basis for the first time in a while. Vick ran the ball 100 times and scored 9 TDs. DeSean Jackson ran the ball 16 times. Reid wanted to get the ball to his playmakers. He also started to love gadget players. Chad Hall ran the ball 9 times and caught 11 passes. Chad Hall.
Reid had some great ideas all along. The shovel pass is something he’s run for years. He’s found the right players to execute his offense and continued to bring in new ideas to bring out the best in his playmakers. The real key is Smith. He is extremely smart, very experienced and an outstanding athlete. Reid has never had that combination before.
_
On top of the football stuff, Reid’s family situation absolutely necessitated the move. Cutting him loose was the right thing, the decent thing, and the only thing.
It’s worked out for him, and I’m happy it did. He’s a hell of a football coach, and I wish the man nothing but the best.
Yes, the situation with his son… He needed to move on. I can’t imagine something like that wasn’t’ affecting him.
The way his players liked him and respected him would indicate he is a great person as well. I hope it is never us versus Reid in the SB. No matter how much of a die-hard Birds fan I am a SB win would not feel the same to me knowing it came at Reid’s expense. That is unless he won one before we play him in that scenario.
Wow, Tommy, nice article. I didn’t hear Colin Cowherd’s segment on Reid. I know that over the years, he was very pro-Reid and pro-Eagles in his views. I think he quoted Belichik as saying that most NFL organizations basically beat themselves, and that the Eagles were one of the few who did things the right way. This was a few years back, of course.
I would not at all put Colin in the category of the shock-jock, click-baitey hosts. He does have a knack for saying striking things, but he can usually back them up. I find him to be most insightful radio show host, at least that I hear where I live.
Nope, this segment was just trolling Philadelphia fans.
I heard part of the segment and it was pure troll…he skipped the Santa Claus story oddly, but every other canard about Philadelphia was thrown in.
The most humorous to me was when Philadelphia lost being the Capital of the USA to Washington, D.C. – Cowherd stated that we likely ran George Washington out of town, forcing him to find a new place to setup shop. Ridiculous but funny.
imo he’s gotten a little more shock jocky since leaving ESPN. Not that ESPN is all great, but when you leave a Giant like ESPN you get to say all the things that would get you in trouble back at your old job. Which is great at first while unleashing that first wave of catharsis built up over the years, then it becomes your brand and you have to make crap up. Now you’re a shock jock.
I stopped listening to him while he was still at ESPN. Got tired of tuning in at lunchtime to hear same ole same ole while he would only stop fluffing LeBron long enough to sniff his jock.
I’m not a faithful listener, but we get three stations and he’s still my #1 choice. But NPR and silence are also in the rotation. I like to think sometimes.
I find that most sports radio is either ex-jocks spouting the conventional wisdom (which is usually wrong, swagger and bandwagon BS), loudmouth radio guys, or fantasy football/betting crap. To my mind, Colin is obviously the smartest of the bunch and his takes are usually right. They show insight and intelligence, really the opposite of someone like Peter King. He isn’t always right, and when he’s wrong, it’s like a coach who goes for it on fourth down–because it’s different, it’s going to stand out.
From an external perspective, firing Andy seems absurd–look at the accomplishments he’s racked up in both PHI and KC. For people who follow the Eagles on a daily (okay, who are we kidding, hourly) basis, it makes a lot more sense.
I haven’t listened to him in a long time, but the problem I always had with him is he starts with intelligent thoughts (e.g., Andy Reid is a good coach) and adds strawmen and hot takes to make more adversarial/controversial (e.g., the Philadelphia fans ran Reid out of town), then handwaves away any nuance or context that is contrary to his argument.
In this case, the general sentiment after the 2012 season from most fans was that Reid had run his course here, it was time to move on, and we wish him well.
I used to think Cowherd made some good points (also thought he was an arrogant prick) when he was with ESPN. Now that he is on FS1 he’s turned into another Skip Bayless/Stephen A. Smith. Don’t waste your time anymore. Now he’s just a arrogant prick grasping at anything to get ratings. JUST DON’T LISTEN!
The return of Andy Reid with Brad Childress needs pointing out. History shows that they work vey well together. His coaching record with and without him is startling.
ALL RISE!
…
Not sure why there’s an article addressing an idiot that has a daily motive to be controversial. 3-1, Cards coming and we’re talking about something that happened years ago. WGAS.
What was that you put at the end of the post? Maybe I’m being obtuse or a grumpy old man, but these millennials (I’m making an assumption) with their acronyms…oy veh
that’s exactly why I put it — I can’t figure out half the tweets/etc out there anymore. I made it up(not a millennial by any means) — Who Gives A Shit :). GOAT is the worst out there but everybody uses it…
Oh ok. Not sure I quite understand your logic there but I guess I understand it more now than before.
I’d suggest, if you can’t figure out stuff, then don’t use stuff that other people can’t figure out… but that’s just me I guess…
It makes people feel like “wtf?”
So long as we can all agree that Odell is still and will always remain the BOAT.
does that first letter denote a word that ends in “itchiest”?
Haha… it means whatever you want it to mean.
Does it mean …bofa?
Hahaha.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b5a843bba10577e27ff24afd9d0e0111734797fe8570e5b29ea94541986b5c65.jpg
I don’t know… every now and then I appreciate it when folks who actually know what happened (like Tommy) rebut idiotic comments. And this was a very well crafted rebuttal.
Only thing missing is the problems that Andy’s sons were having in Philadelphia. I still can’t believe he continued to coach through all that. (as DustyRyder points out below)
did a judge enter the room or something?
eagleYANKfan…figured he was bragging on Judge.
Ohhh, baseball player, I’m out of the loop on baseball
PTI also noted this similarly yesterday. . They called him a great regular season coach, but at 1-3 in the playoffs he is a great regular season coach.
That’s a big 10-4, Tommy!
Completely off-topic: is Isaac Seumalo ever going to be decent again?
I think so. Remember, this kid came into late last year and had to play catchup and did well. This year he’s picked up bad habits that can be corrected.
He had one bad game.
OK…
Your belief is that it was just “one bad game”.
Why do you believe that the Eagles have stuck with a rotation at LG instead of giving Seumalo his job back?
Clearly the Eagles believe that Wisniewski / Warmack are the better option right now. That would seem to indicate that their concerns extend beyond the “one bad game”.
Has Warmack been good?
You can make an argument that Wiz is a better player right now. I’d argue that after 1 bad game you bench a guy and force Warmack into the lineup, your OL coach is on some bullshit.
Stoutland is forcing Warmack into action.
I would think that Stoutland has the first call on O-line play. However I find it difficult to believe that he is the only one getting a say in this.
Hypothetically: Jeff Stoutland loves Warmack but Doug Pederson and Frank Reich (or Joe Douglas, etc) see that Warmack is playing like hot garbage… don’t you think they would say something along the lines of, “Jeff, get your favorite pupil out of there and put Isaac back in!”?
I may be mistaken, however I believe that the decision to play Warmack / Wiz over Seumalo is more than just Jeff Stoutland.
“The real key is Smith. He is extremely smart, very experienced and an outstanding athlete. Reid has never had that combination before.
Shots fired!
Listen, just because Alex Smith is extremely smart doesn’t mean that any other qb Andy has worked with is an idiot. There’s nothing wrong with being just “regular” smart.
I thought we were talking about Mike Kafka and his athleticism, what are you talking about?
His time in Green Bay with Brett Favre.
ooo good one
Nicely done.
Yea, if I was McNabb, I’d be all like WTF
are u referring to our great athletic QB who didn’t know a game could end in a tie and has been arrested for several DUI’s after retiring? I wouldn’t call him smart, thats for sure.
You’ve confused intelligence with knowledge, and lack of intelligence with alcoholism. Since none of us have ever sat in a QB room with them know either’s “football IQ”, we are left with reputation…Which is historically…biased, when it comes to a particular physical attribute.
I wasn’t singling out that aspect though. To compare every QB that Reid has ever coached unfavorably to Alex Smith…SHOTS FIRED!
Well I love Mcnabb but he never struck me as “smart” or hard working. Mcnabb was “safe” with the ball but not smart. Poor time management might also be used as evidence as well
He came off as a talented athlete who happened to be a QB. Yeah he would throw the ball around but he also had his clothing line and soup commercials kicking around as well
I think its a fair assumption that Alex Smith is the best combination of those traits and Andy never got them all in one package.
Andy has also seemed to learn how to run the ball even when its not working well
I’m not quite sure, definitely possible, but both are good either way. Happy for Reid and Smith, both have grown a lot. We’ll see if they can surpass those early 2000’s Eagle’s teams together. I like Reid enough that I wouldn’t begrudge him for it.
McNabb scored a 14 on the Wonderlic, so it’s safe to say he wasn’t academically brilliant.
My biggest beefs with DMac were the streakiness (those awful bad days) and what appeared to be a slight deficiency in reading defenses. Whether that had to do with academic capacity, processing speed, or lack of study, I have no idea.
Hey, did you hear that Ryan Fitzpatrick scored a 50 on the Wonderlic and went to Harvard?
It’s obligatory to mention every time it’s brought up.
That was my counter. Fitzpatrick is a brilliant man with a terrible knack for stupid football
Yeah, Dan Marino, etc. etc. But my point was not about QBing, but about academic capacity.
I loved Reid as the coach, but the fact of the matter was he did poorly when it came to the draft.
I’ve always said that if not for players he inherited from Ray Rhodes, Reid’s tenure in Philadelphia would have been short-lived. This wasn’t because he couldn’t coach, but because he couldn’t draft.
By the time the Eagles reached the Super Bowl, they had very few players left over from Rhodes’ tenure (Trotter, Tra Thomas, Dawkins, who else?)
By the time they made their last playoff appearance with Reid in 2010, they had none left.
Reid’s drafts were a mixed bag but calling them “poor” is an exaggeration. He drafted McNabb, Simon, Sheppard, Brown, Westbrook, Cole, Celek, McCoy, Jackson, etc. A lot of good-to-great players on that list.
Also Mayberry, Hugh Douglas (coming back like Trotter) and Hollis Thomas. So, only 4 starters in total. Basically, only the good ones, which is called talent evaluation.
Mayberry was a decent guard, Hollis Thomas was a role player, as was Douglas by 2004.
Most of the starters, as you point out, were Reid acquisitions, and almost all of the best players on the team (McNabb, Westbrook, Owens, Sheppard, Brown, Kearse, Darwin Walker, etc.) were.
I see Stephen E. added to your list. However, let me include Troy Vincent, Bobby Taylor, Al Harris, and Duce Staley.
The key players were Dawkins, Trotter, and Douglas because Dawkins and Trotter were the leaders of Jim Johnson’s defense, while Douglas gave him a bona fide pass rusher. Yes, Sheppard and Brown eventually took over for Vincent and Taylor, but not before the defense was already established.
The fact is Reid never was able to successfully draft a LB and unless you want to include Michael Lewis’s too few years, he had the same problem at safety.
I believe Trotter and Dawkins might have been the most important holdovers on defense because without them calling defensive signals the defense would had been in trouble. You can get a good idea how things would have been when you remember what happened when Barry Gardner replaced Trotter after Trotter went to the Redskins. Gardner was the first of several LBS that Reid drafted that couldn’t play.
Vincent, Taylor, Harris, and Staley were good players from the Rhodes era, but none of them were left on the team when they reached the SuperBowl.
I agree, but they were there for the first few NFC Conference Championships and it could be argued that without them the Eagles would never have successfully transitioned into a dominant defense. I think it’s important to note that the defense played a large role on Reid’s early success until his offense fully developed.
That is true. I was going back to xeynon’s comment that “By the time the Eagles reached the Super Bowl, they had very few players left over from Rhodes’ tenure (Trotter, Tra Thomas, Dawkins, who else?).” I think this is the list of players that Stephen E. added to.
They didn’t sniff the playoffs with those players under Rhodes. And certainly not in Reid’s first year.
You don’t improve six seasons in a row coasting on a previous coach’s players. Banner and others had a lot to do with the draft then, but there were plenty of good players drafted. Dawkins and Tra Thomas were the main ones, which helped a ton to be sure, and yes Vincent and Taylor helped early on as well, but you don’t become the perennial deep-into-the-playoffs team without at least decent drafting and very good coaching. Vermeil was the only Eagles coach who came anywhere close with sustained success (at least since Greasy Neale and maybe Buck Shaw, who were so far before my time I can’t really comment).
Bad drafting will kill any coach, but he had the best drafts of anyone since Buddy Ryan, and Vermeil before that.
When Reid took over his defense was his strongest unit, especially the first few years. Of the 11 starters for Jim Johnson the first few years, 6 of them were inherited from Ray Rhodes. This included Trotter, one of the best LBS in Eagles history, which is saying a lot, and Dawkins one of the best safeties in NFL history. Also, Hugh Douglas was still at the top of his game giving Johnson a first class pass rusher.
I maintain that Reid would of had a difficult time winning without these players, especially the ones calling the defensive signals,Trotter and Dawkins.
As far as any of those players sniffing the playoffs under Rhodes, Hollis Thomas, Vincent, Douglas, and Dawkins (rookie year) did play in the playoffs. Tra Thomas and Trotter weren’t drafted until Rhodes last year and Staley was drafted in Rhodes next to last year. Trotter hardly played in his rookie year and we knew little about Staley because Rhodes insisted on playing Ricky Watters.
We need to remember that Reid knew very little about Trotter’s abilities or he wouldn’t had drafted Barry Gardner to QB the defense. Trotter overwhelmingly beat out Gardner during training camp. I believe a good indication of Trotter’s importance to the Eagles was displayed during 2002 season that ended losing to Tampa Bay in the conference championship game. It was the year Trotter left for the Redskins and Gardner was given the starting MLB job. Gardner was so bad that the Eagles were forced to bring in Levon Kirkland to stop the run. I believe that if Trotter played in the Tampa Bay game the Eagles would have won. That is how important he was to the defense and the player Reid drafted to play Trotter’s position (Gardner) was the perfect example of Reid’s inability to draft linebackers.
Sure. Most every coach inherits good players — Hugh Douglas was definitely one (one of the Eagles’ better trades), and Vincent/Taylor. Dawkins was just a decent player before Jim Johnson. Trotter was very good, though down the list of “Eagles best of all time” for me. He was just the best LB of that era, since Banner didn’t believe in paying LBs. He was also gone by 2002, yet the team still got better. Shawn Barber was great, for example, but the team let him leave as well. Trotter came back for 2004-6 and was good his first two years, but not quite the same. You can argue that (outside of Barber) the replacements at LB were the team’s weak link.
Staley was a solid RB. So was Buckhalter (other than the injury thing) and of course Westbrook.
You don’t continue to win for more than a couple years if you don’t draft as well or better yourself though. Talent erodes fast. Thomas and Dawkins were probably the most important inherited players. But the drafts from 1991 through 1997 were mostly wastelands, with just the occasional hit. You had to go to 2011 before you found a draft as bad (well… 2003 wasn’t so hot). Rhodes stacked his first couple of teams with veterans and got a lot out of them, so yes they were decent — but were also 1-2 in the playoffs, winning one wild card game against the Lions. Reid matched that win in 2000, then far exceeded that 2001-2004. They were a dramatically better team. No Eagles coach has matched that sustained postseason success. He inherited some good players, but they were not the foundation of his success. Rhodes was an example of someone who won with inherited players, but failed when he had to rely more on his own drafts. Kotite an even more extreme example — he was a terrible coach and worse drafter. Reid, simply just not an example of that. It was not a barren team to be sure, but his initial stretch was unmatched even by Vermeil.
Lack of drafting stars eventually did hurt. But I think the coaching development was at least as big an issue; drafts can look worse when players don’t develop. He never found a good replacement for Jim Johnson, and McNabb stagnated. Morninwheg was even more pass-happy than he was, etc.
We can go back and forth on this forever and again I’m an Andy Reid fan, but in my mind Dawkins and Trotter alone were such important players to Johnson’s defense that the Eagles would have struggled mightily to win without them. Maybe, I would think differently if there was success in drafting linebackers and safeties, but that didn’t happen.
Hugh Douglas was pretty much washed up by 2004 (he was a part time player) and the starters were Reid signee Jevon Kearse and Reid draftee Derrick Burgess.
Reid never drafted a great linebacker here, that’s true. Some of that may be due to bad drafting but some of it was due to bad luck (Stewart Bradley got off to a fine start before he ripped up his knee and he was never the same after that).
As I said, a mixed bag. But it’s not really fair to say Reid “won with Rhodes’ players”. By the time the Eagles made it to the SB, there were only a few holdovers (and none aside from Dawk on his last NFC championship team in 2008).
Wasn’t Tra Thomas still the LT on the 2008 team? I think they traded for JP in 2009.
Yeah you’re right.
Sorry to be a pain. I agree with your point that it is not fair to say Reid “won with Rhodes’ players,” but I tend to get stuck on the details. Mostly, I need reassurance that my memory is still in tact and I am not losing my mind. 🙂
The funny thing is I actually specifically mentioned Reid’s last playoff team in 2010 rather than his last NFC title game team in 2008 because I remembered there still being a few Rhodes players on the latter, Thomas being one of them. Then I promptly forgot it.
Man, I almost forgot about that 2010 season. That was a weird year.
Remember, I started my post indicating Reid’s tenure in Philadelphia might have been short without Rhodes players. In other words, the point I was trying to make is Reid’s teams may not even have gotten close to 2004’s Super Bowl because without Rhodes players they may never have smelled the playoffs.
Disagree. Drafts toward the end (after Banner left) were not good, but plenty of good players were drafted under him. The team improved every year from 1999 through 2004; that doesn’t happen if you are drafting badly. You can coast a couple of years on a predecessor’s players (see Kotite) but not that long.
A big part was getting the first one right (McNabb, not Tim Couch or Akili Smith). Reid was truly outstanding in most ways, though like most coaches he would be better off letting a GM handle most of the draft. And he was outcoached in game situations a bit more often than he should have been.
Am rooting for him in KC, but he does have something of a playoff hump to get over there.
First of all, I’m rooting for him as well and understand, I don’t believe he got everything wrong. McNabb was a great pick and he did well with drafting running backs. Also, he did a good job early on in free agency. Jon Runyan, Carlos Emmons, and Chad Lewis were excellent signings and who can forget the trade for Jason Peters.
However, on offense Reid couldn’t find a decent WR in the draft until DeSean Jackson and by then the Eagles were in decline. The same could be said about offensive linemen where Todd Herrmanns was the only successful OL drafted unless you want to include John Welbourn or Shawn Andrews.
However, it was on the defensive side of the ball that was lacking the most. It can be argued that other than Shepard and Brown, Reid’s only other successful defensive draft picks were Corey Simmons and Trent Cole. Granted he ran into bad luck with injuries with Jerome McDougal and Derrick Burgess, but even then we are talking about a small number of players.
Unfortunately, I believe it was bad drafting that led to the infamous “dream team”.
There were plenty of misses in that tenure, to be sure. All teams have them. The inability to find stars did hurt. On the other hand, that does come with being a very successful team — they were always picking at the very end of the rounds.
Andrews was an awesome player — the depression was a total shame. Welbourn was OK, as was Brzezinski. And Bobbie Williams. Other than Andrews though, he didn’t draft them high — Eagles had a very good OL for a long time. A better center would have helped, but overall they were generally just trying to find backups, which they did. Their starters were set, and long-term.
Reggie Brown looked good for a while, then wasn’t. Pinkston was very useful, but a side piece, not a #1. Yes, WRs were a constant issue. McNabb stopped improving it seemed after 2004. Still very good
They did not find a ton of defensive talent. Trent Cole was great though. Michael Lewis was very good for a time. JR Reed was another shame. Mike Patterson was very solid. McDougle was very unlucky, but probably a bad pick as well. Everyone loved the Bunkley draft, but it didn’t turn out that well. Stewart Bradley looked great until he blew out his knee. Sure, there were some mediocre drafts in there. His predilection for reaches in the third round was extremely aggravating. But, they didn’t approach the unmitigated disasters that were the drafts before his arrival (save 1998, when Rhodes lost his say). If you were used to the quality of drafts under Kotite and Rhodes, Reid was fantastic.
Reid (and more Johnson) made better use of the players they inherited (Dawkins in particular). But really, the drafts before Reid’s arrival were worse. 1998 was an exception, as they finally got their LT in Tra Thomas after a decade-long quest (maybe closer to two), and also Trotter. Between Vermeil and Reid, Buddy Ryan was the only decent drafter — and while he was a better drafter than Reid, he could not coach offense to save his life. He never won a playoff game; Reid won a bunch, and consistently. Other than Thomas, and Dawkins (who only became Dawkins after Reid got there), the players Reid inherited weren’t all that much better than the ones he acquired. Reid’s drafts were not awesome for the most part, but not dreadful either — before he came, drafts like 2011 were more often the rule.
Thats what happens when the picks are all “scrappy” or “fireballs” or some other inane underrated quality that u do want to be used to describe ur entire team
(I’m going to preface this post by saying I know quarterback rating is not the end all of statistics for quarterbacks, and oftentimes can be misleading in terms of how a QB actually performed. That being said, I think that over time, as the sample size grows larger, rating can be a general barometer for quarterback performance. I never knew a quarterback who sucked all year who finished with a QB rating of over 100).
So, it’s been kind of bothering me lately in terms of how much of a microscope Wentz is put under. It’s not that I don’t think that we should be carefully watching how he performs, but it feels like people are coming to overarching conclusions about Wentz’s abilities based on a very small sample size and without considering the context. This isn’t a necessarily a criticism of people on this board, but Eagles fandom at large (including all media, web, radio, etc.)
Historically Eagles fans have been incredibly hard on quarterbacks (and everyone else on the team really), but I think it could be helpful to add some perspective in terms of what we can expect from Wentz.
Part of the problem additionally is that the days of giving quarterbacks time to mature seems to have passed. Because of the success of some rookies lately, it feels like people expect greatness out of the gate. The problem with that, is that none of those fast starting rookies has really built on that early success and turned into elite passers.
I contend, that it’s still very important to give quarterbacks time to gain experience and work on their craft.
In the past 17 years, I contend there have been only 4 truly elite quarterbacks: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers.
There are some second tier guys who have flashed at times, but haven’t been consistently great, such as Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo, etc.
It seems like those players excelled when the team was excelling, but weren’t literally carrying their team on their back during tough times like an elite quarterback would.
So, lets examine at what point did these quarterbacks truly come into their own and become “elite”, without breaking it down like a spreadsheet.
Additionally it should be noted for players like Brady and Manning, there were rules changes that influenced some of their earlier statistics.
Peyton Manning’s first truly good season came in his 3rd year, but he didn’t start posting “elite” numbers until the 2003/2004 seasons, when his QB rating and TD/INT ratios started taking off. Those were his 6th and 7th years in the league.
Tom Brady of course infamously took over for Drew Bledsoe in 2001, after spending a year on the bench in New England.
People talk about the super bowl runs of course, but in terms of how Brady played, his first 3 years as a starter were fairly pedestrian. He was a much more safe quarterback than Manning was in terms of TD/INT ratios, but he also had a lower quarterback rating. His play didn’t really start taking off until 2004, his 5th year in the league and 4th as a starter. The first year that I would say he looked like an “elite” quarterback in terms of something other than wins was 2007, the first year he posted a QB rating of over 100 for the season.
Drew Brees of course was infamously supplanted by Philip Rivers in San Diego. In a move that was probably fortune for him, the Chargers went with Philip Rivers and shipped him off to New Orleans, the best thing that happened to him in his career.
Brees early on in his career was incredibly underwhelming. His first 2 years as the starter were VERY difficult, including a 2003 season in which he finished with a 67 quarterback rating through 9 games.
In 2004 that changed, and he started looking like a baller, finishing with a 104 quarterback rating before regressing a little in 2005 and 2006 with an 89 and 96 rating respectively.
He was then dealt to New Orleans where he started off fairly middle of the road before taking off and posting between 90 and 110 season ratings for 7 or 8 consecutive years.
It wasn’t until his 8th or 9th year in the league that he started to display the kinds of performances that made him an elite quarterback.
Aaron Rodgers, another quarterback with an infamous beginning, slipping in the draft and then sitting behind Brett Favre for 3 years had the best start to his career in terms of when he took over the starting QB role.
His first full season as a starter he posted a 96 rating (behind one of the worst OL’s I’ve ever seen, I should add) and by his 2nd year starting posted a 30 TD / 7 INT and 103 rating season.
It makes sense that Rodgers would become an elite quarterback faster since he had 3 years to learn and practice at the pro level before taking over.
I personally think Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL now, he can make every throw from every platform, he has elite escapability and mobility, and he is the best pure arm talent in the NFL (he can make absurd throws with incredible power with what seems like a flick of the wrist.) He’s not a Tom Brady type who needs a clean platform to throw from for accuracy.
However, I think we need to take a deep breath and consider that the best quarterbacks of the 2000’s have all taken years of seasoning before they started posting “elite” quarterback numbers.
The other thing to consider is how much college experience these quarterbacks had prior to entering the NFL.
Aaron Rodgers started at Cal for 2 years prior to being drafted and posted huge numbers in a major conference.
Tom Brady was at Michigan for 4 years and started 2, and while he didn’t post numbers as big as Rodgers he was playing in a bigtime conference.
Peyton Manning of course was an anointed prospect from Tennessee where he played for 4 years, 3 as the full time starter, Tennessee being another school that plays against big-time competition.
Drew Brees was a 3 year starter at Purdue, and while his competition might not have been as stiff, it was a D1 school and he did have 3 years of seasoning.
Wentz, as we know, was a 1 year starter at a division 2 school, so his experience before entering the NFL is considerably lower than any of these other players.
So what’s the point? In his rookie season Wentz posted an 80 rating, and so far this year he has a 90 rating. He’s doing a better job of taking care of the ball this year, but he still isn’t posting huge yardage and touchdown numbers.
Is this making fans fidgety? I think probably. We’re all eager to see Wentz “Take the next step” and start dropping 350yds/4td lines on defenses.
The point is, we can’t say yet what Wentz is going to be. So in the meantime, if he has a boneheaded play, throws a regrettable interception, or struggles to post huge numbers, just remember the context.
Maybe Wentz will never become what we hope, maybe he will, but it’s just too early to cast any aspersions or heap too much praise.
If you actually read this whole post, kudos to you fellow passionate/obsessive Eagles fan, I hope I offered something of value to you.
Nice post. I would actually put Ben and Tony in the first tier, though. If not, then Rodgers and Peyton deserve their own place 🙂
Wentz’ QB rating is 10 above last year. If he can inch up 10 a year, I think he’ll be in pretty good shape. I hope people aren’t expecting him to be Peyton Manning, this year or year 6 or year 10. That way lies disappointment.
You are saying Rodgers and Peyton belong in a tier above Brady?
Yep.
I just expect the unfavorable comparison to Blake Bortles to stop by mid season. Wentz ALWAYS has his eyes down field. The big plays will start hitting, we are due (on offense lol)
I hope you’re right!
Great post. Wentz was a two year starter in a division 1-AA school (even though he missed a good portion of his final year with an injury). Other than that, I agree with everything.
Excellent post. Yo’, Tommy, move over, SteveH is in town.
MNF showed 2 QBs still working their way up to elite status
Alex Smith will never be elite. Otherwise Andy wouldn’t have drafted Mahomes. Same for Kirk Cousins. Otherwise Scot McG would have given him a contract
Chuckie thought both guys are. . Thinks Cousins gonna make a boatload of moola .. they think AR LOVES LOVES Alex smith .. but as we know AR is known to draft QB prospects
ND State
IS
FBS! NOT DIVISION II!
Oh dear, I didn’t mean to upset anyone ;).
Well thought out and written post!
GEAGLE is that you? (not substance, just a joke about length of post)
NOt ENouGh raNDOm caPITal LETterS
Great post. However, part of what Cowherd says about Philadelphia fans is true: we are very hard on our star players.
We expect greatness and consistent greatness at that. Mistakes are very rarely allowed and, once enough time goes by, any achievements are minimized with specious “evidence”.
Wentz will likely be no exception to the pattern. He needs to not only win, be a great teammate, come through in the clutch consistently, always take the full blame even if he does not deserve it, but he needs to win a SB title for the city. That is the bar. Fairness ain’t got nothing to do with it.
The fan base will split into pro and anti-Wentz factions (it is already starting) and the longer that goes by without him winning the more pressure and criticism will come flying at him.
I did not read it all – saw how long it was, and (hopefully) got the gist of it by reading the beginning and end. Based on that, I think I completely agree with your POV. As a society, we’ve become averse to ambiguity, analyses, and the type of gratification that requires time and patience. But we obsess over “noise.”
I’m really excited about Wentz because he has the potential to be elite but he also has the drive of those elite QBs.
Mcnabb and Vick got by on just talent sometimes. Wentz knows he has to out work everyone to unlock his full potential. The guy breathes football and u can tell he loves it.
Reid needed to go. He lost the team ( I was at the Giants game which was his last as Birds coach ) very obviously; His drafting was poor by any measure and his in game management suspect at best; having said that, the hiring of Juan Castillo as DC was the nail in the coffin.
Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any stranger hire in pro sports than Castillo as DC.
How about, in Nov ’80, when Notre Dame hired high school coach Gerry Faust to succeed the retiring Dan Devine.
In 6 seasons at ND, from ’75-’80, Devine’s teams won a national championship in ’77 and played for the national championship in his last game as coach (losing to Georgia, with Herschel Walker, in the Sugar Bowl).
Boom, you’re right. That was wild. It didn’t stick in my mind because Gerry was there for an appreciable tenure while Juan was kinda’ a one-night-stand.
I did remember Faust as being a warm, appreciative guy. Sure enough, I researched and found this quote of his: “I had only 26 miserable days at Notre Dame; that’s when we lost. Other than that, I was the happiest guy in the world. I loved walking on the campus, loved being there, loved being a part of Notre Dame.”
How about Reid hiring our HC as an OC after his three years as a HS coach?
Reid hired Pederson as an offensive quality control coach in 2009 after 3 years as a HS coach (and 14 years as an NFL QB). Pederson was then promoted to QB coach in 2011 and was the Eagles QB coach for 2011-2012. Andy then hired him as OC in Kansas City and he was OC for 3 years (2013-2015) before getting hired as head coach here.
So after 14 years as an NFL QB and 3 years as a HS coach, he got hired as a low-level coach (quality control) and worked his way up (albeit very quickly). He wasn’t hired directly as OC after 3 years as a HS coach.
ok,thanks for the headsup/correction
no, the firing was
Whenever I see an article/blog post/tweet/etc. that begins “Colin Cowherd said…” I immediately stop reading because I know whatever follows is going to be some kind of moronic hot take not worthy of engaging.
As far as Reid goes, he had a good run here and is a very accomplished coach. But things had run their course. It was time for a change when he left.
Tommy`s the exception to your rule.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000856069/article/offensive-line-of-the-week-eagles-front-dominates-all-phases
I respect a former O-lineman’s opinion, and I do generally like Shaun O’Hara in his post Giant’s career. But I wonder if he really looks at the film. If so that’s really encouraging to hear about our O-line. Anyone else want to weigh in on where our O-line is at?
Now that I think about it, the O-line has faced all good D-lines. Maybe I haven’t given them enough credit.
Well not being from Philly I have subed to the ESPN radio station on youtube and listen to their interviews. Joyner rates the line pretty friggin phenomenally. John McMullen talks extremely highly of them. PFF says JP is the #2 tackle in the league and Johnson is the #5.
Dallas and Oakland are probably still 1,2. I’d put our group in the next tier with GB, WAS, KC.
So same as it was preseason.
Wow, I was under the impression that GB was bad. Then again the only GB game I laid eyes on was against Seattle, who has a great DL, but made GB’s O-line look abysmal.
They’ve been missing their T’s, who are the best duo outside of our own. But Linsley is a solid C and Evans has been solid from what I’ve seen so once they all get healthy they’ll be really good.
I’ve been impressed our line has been as solid as it is. If you told me at the beginning of the season that Sem will be benched, and have had a rotation of LG’s every series. I would interpret that information as, “the O-line is a dumpster fire.”
There’s a reason I was so dismissive of the freakouts during PS and the first two weeks of the regular season about the OL.
The LG situation is still stupid.
Pretty much nailed the Reid thing. Imagine if he actually had like a Tom Brady. Would he be the GOAT instead of Bill? He is my GOAT. I just wish Kelce wasn’t such an ass. Really the only thing holding me back from doing what a lot of people do and embracing a team from the other conference.
edit—less Kelce being an over-all ass (which he is), and more the damn Eagle flap. That really got me…which he wanted…. he wins again 🙁
I think Belichik is clearly better than Andy, but lucking into a HOF QB is certainly a career builder. I actually didn’t want them to fire Andy at the time, having so much respect for him, but I now think it was the best thing. He came into a team with lots of talent and a clean slate, freeing him to do his thing.
Hard for me to be so sure Bill is better. The light of the Golden Boy is blinding.
I was on board with the Reid firing. I sort of felt just as Tommy described it. Everyone needed to hit the reset button, and that just wasn’t gonna happen unless he left town.
Cmon now Beli is the goat. Ask Parcells how he did without Beli
Made a terrible Dallas team a playoff team with meddling Jerrah. Sure he is the GOAT… but he had Tommy and and I can’t judge him outside of that.
But thats still not even as good as Jimmy Johnson.
But Kornheiser & Wilbon at PTI on ESPN (i love their approach & mad analysis) have called Beli & Brady both T.H.E uncontested GOATs.
Jimmy has a jacket, to be fair. Also I don’t think Parcels is close to deserving of a jacket.
I wasn’t attempting to argue either wasn’t the actual GOAT. Just pontificating on what never was.
When Beli gets his yellow jacket it will have Goat skin lining from a pristine animal from the finest Herd.
To clarify, accomplishment gives Bill the title for sure. In a different universe where Brady never comes back from the knee…who knows.
But he gets to take maximum credit for finding Brado .. that call only adds to his legend. .. and he seems to develop backup QBs pretty well also.
I mean he’s there every damn year. . Loses guys right and left. . It’s insane. His team isn’t that great this year and he is still a gamer.
He is bigger than a legend.
No denying.
Best coach of our lifetime easy.
AR can’t hold a torch to Marv Levy. Not in Beli realm.
Beli is greatest ever hands down. AR not in the top 20.
Who better than Beli ??
Would you really put AR evan close in top 10 ??
No way. . As a regular season coach when he did well, sure he has been great. But he is responsible for his down years and those have been horrible and his playoff records are bad.
..
I’m going to Google some greatest coaches lists and czech this out a bit
To contribute towards the GOAT conversation, in my lifetime, there has been Bill Walsh, and then everyone else. Maybe Hoodie is top of that “everyone else” list, but he’s not in the same league as Walsh. It’s like talking about the greatest president of all time and comparing yourself to some guy who invented democracy.
Given Darth Hoodie has racked up more Superbowls and had success over a long stretch of time, with a rotating cast of players (with the exception of Brady), I don’t see how you can say Walsh is in a different league. I guess because he gets extra points for the West Coast offense?
Being the first is important, but dominating in a mature sport is perhaps more impressive IMO.
Belichek’s contribution to the game is “do things really well.” And you can’t give him props for a “rotating cast of players” and then say that Brady is an exception. Belichek’s success is HEAVILY tied to Brady, more so than any member of a rotating cast.
Walsh gave the game the West Coast Offense and an entire set of philosophies on how a team and program should be run. A great number of successful coaches have spawned from his coaching tree, even today. The fact that no one who coached under Belicheck has ever had any real success is telling in this regard. Walsh was an innovator and a really good coach who changed the game. Belichek is just a really good coach. That’s what I mean by a different league.
Okay. Belichik vs Walsh, one game. I think that answers whether they’re in a different league. 🙂
Not so sure that’s the slam dunk you think it is. Walsh outcoached a lot of legends in his day, guys like Marv Levy, Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, etc.
Here’s another question: name one successful Belicheck protege head coach in the league.
Or another: name one thing that Belichek has given the league. Something he’s done that other coaches will use. Not much, besides “coach really good” and “draft Tom Brady”.
I’m fine if you want to give extra weight to innovations and coaching trees, although I’m not convinced that someone else wouldn’t have come up with the West Coast concepts if Walsh didn’t. Myself, I would pick BB for one game for the fate of the world. 🙂
AR w Brady wud have zero rings.
Cant disagree more.
In other news– RIP Tom Petty.
You played a huge role in my formative years, thanks for the great music and memories.
It’s not his fault “Into the Great Wide Open” was egregiously overplayed on MTV back when that was a prime form of entertainment for me. My daughter knows how to play only one song on the guitar, “Running Down a Dream.”
RIP Tom, you were a class act.
I used to love switching back and forth between VH1, The Box and MTV for music when I was younger.
Saw him in concert years ago. Other than getting into a fist fight with my brother in the stands (he spilled powdered sugar from his funnel cake all over me) it was great!
The Philadelphia Eagles signed free agent wide receiver Rashard Davis in order to fill out their 10-man practice squad, according to an official announcement from the team. The Eagles had an open spot after Bryce Treggs signed with the Browns.
Heard they have good bars near the factory of sadness.
I hope we can get Rashard on the field as a returner. He’s got some good speed.
Flyers season starts tonight. LFG
At 10:30 pm though, tough west coast trip. I like that some rookies made the roster and some of the dead weight was dropped
Yup, can’t believe AMcd is a captain but other than that a Flyers team hasn’t looked this good in a longgg time.
The top line is going to be a revelation, IMO. Really going to be impressive, night in/night out. Patrick’s going to be a player, but have to remember how young he is, and he’s not a generational talent – just a very good, very smart young hockey player. His production is going to disappoint a lot of casual fans. Fourth line is going to get a lot of time, and will impact games with intangibles.
The defense is going to alternate between what it has been (older, mostly bad journeymen) and wildly inconsistent (the young guns will have amazing nights sprinkled in amongst nights where their inexperience and flaws will be highlighted). Unfortunately, once again, their faults will be put in a spotlight, as their goaltending is somewhat underwhelming.
The key to the season is seeing whether Morin or Hagg can be the complementary piece to allow Ghost to really impact even-strength situations. Provorov’s a stud, even if he has a small regression this year. Sanheim is exciting offensively, but I’d really like to see him spend a little more time up here and try to learn to use his size (*not* become a hitter, but just in terms of strength and shielding) on the boards. That’ll be the difference between him being Matt Carle (who was unfairly slagged, IMO, but was not a true star due solely to his failures on the boards) vs. something much better (hard to talk about how good he can be without making comparisons to some stud defensemen).
The key thing is that the Flyers finally stopped trying to take shortcuts and focused on developing talent from within. Since Hextall took over they’ve gone from having one of the worst prospect pipelines in the NHL to one of the best.
I’m psyched about this season. With so many young players, especially in the defensive corps, I expect there to be growing pains, but I’d rather miss the playoffs with a bunch of twentysomethings with bright futures than with guys like Streit, Read, and Bellemare.
I love Big Red and Reid’s presence in Kansas City automatically makes the Chiefs my second favorite NFL team. He’s a fantastic football coach.
But after 14 years it was time for Reid to go. He had run his course in Philadelphia and he was having real trouble recapturing his mojo. The move to Kansas City has been great for him, it’s a great market with really good fans and he has plenty of license to do his thing.
I have two quibbles with Reid the coach.
— First, the man has forgotten more football in a single day than I will ever know in my lifetime. But I always thought he took that a little too far. Always struck me that Andy Reid was not satisfied just to win. He needed to win with his own personal stamp on the game as well. So if a team was having trouble stopping the run, the usual NFL coach would say “let’s run it at them.” Not Reid. He would dial up the passing game just because he could, and because he wanted to be unpredictable. But he was predictably unpredictable. I always felt he wanted everybody to know just how smart he is, every game.
–Second, he asked too much of his Superman QB in McNabb, and later Vick. I feel as though Alex Smith is actually a good QB for Reid, he recognizes Smith’s limitations and knows he has to help him with the run game. He put an unreasonable burden on McNabb for many years, IMO.
and didnt give him the help he needed until TO…even there didnt manage those two headcases very well, though thats more on TO than anyone.
why wasnt he able to sit down with the two of them and have them realize if they`d play nice with each other, hall of fame results would be the result!!
Not fair at all to McNabb to call him a “headcase”. T.O. was pretty clearly the problem in that relationship, given that he eventually started slagging off and attempting to pick fights with every QB he ever played with.
All time great WR, all time headcase. Not just in the standard “he’s a selfish jerk” way either, I think he was legitimately mentally ill.
Yeah, I don’t think McNabb was a head case at all, but he didn’t know how to handle one either.
Because Andy’s ego was bigger than both of those 2 combined. . And i know is true. . I don’t fall for his shallow ” I’m a good ol boy’ rap
I agree, Brick. Teams knew McNabb was going to pass it on 2 out of 3 downs and really beat him up. And Andy wouldn’t balance it. I think it took years off McNabb’s career. But I do have a lot of love for Big Red. He put Philly football back on the map. Can see he’s keeping it more balanced in KC. Hope he wins a Lombardi before it’s done.
..but i hope he never wins it and gets stuck with the one Reggie got him
It was definitely time to go. Not sure he was stubborn in that he wanted to win a particular way, but I do think he overestimated what McNabb could do, for sure.
To me, the coaching staff had completely rotted out. We did not have good coaches at all. Johnson had stayed so long as DC that all the good talent under him had moved to other teams by the time we needed them — with the exception of McDermott, but he wasn’t really ready to be DC yet and it showed. And having Mornhinweg as OC was not the best idea to say the least. Then we tried to fix that problem by getting Washburn and then Mudd, but that backfired because they didn’t hire a DC first, and ended up with an even worse coaching situation in the end. He didn’t help himself by drafting for need towards the end, either.
I think Reid may have worked out if he did a complete clean sweep of the entire coaching staff. Politically that is a tough thing to do however — that can harm the friendships he has with them, etc. By letting Reid go, he got to do that naturally, with a new team. I was watching to see how many coaches he brought with him — basically none except Tommy Brasher, who was only brought back for part of the last season to salvage things somewhat when Washburn was canned, so he wasn’t part of the problem to begin with (he had retired in 2005).
In short, I think both parties were better of with a clean start. The Chip Kelly experiment did not end well, of course, but it looked good for a while.
If Reid had done a clean sweep as you would have preferred, he would have had a difficult time attracting a top-tier DC…as Jim Johnson was, because they had not repopulated the defense with quality players. They weren’t a bunch of slouches, but Trent Green was the lone playmaker, and he was typically worn out by week 12.
Yes, it may have been difficult. But the problem before was hiring a DL coach before DC, because at that point the line play was going to be dictated to the DC, and nobody wanted that. There was some defensive talent — we had Graham and Cox — but it was an issue.
Todd Bowles may have been good — he was a great addition in 2012, but was too little too late really overall on the staff. He became DC when Castillo was fired but that was already a hopeless situation. He may have been interested in actually being DC with his own plan (and did well in AZ).
There are always good young coaches hungry for a chance; the trick is to identify them. Reid did very well on that score initially with the Eagles, but that ability did not last. Sure looks to be better again with the Chiefs though.
Enjoyed. Agree. Nice read.
Smallwood didn’t practice today, no clue what his ailment is ATM. Cox doesn’t sound like he’ll play but, I think the Cardinals are awful so I don’t think it will matter. Outside of the Bears and the 49ers at this point the Cardinals I think are the weakest team on the schedule moving forward.
Probably true, but the Cardinals have been the Eagles’ kryptonite for years it feels like. At least it’s not in ARI, that’s an underrated HFA stadium.
For us it seems that way yeah. Larry Fitz is always ready to go beast on us, but I just don’t see them winning even if Fitz has a big day. Their OL is banged up and was dreadful even with the starters in. They lost their multipurpose all pro RB in week 1. Half of their pass rush is gone with Markus Golden out.
They struggled mightily to put away the Colts and the Niners, two of the worst teams in the league, needing overtime to beat both of them.
No gimmes in the NFL, but I feel really good about this game.
Wouldn’t get too comfortable. They might have the best WR 1-4 in the NFL. That is a legit D.
Fitzgerald aside, here is what each of the Cardinals’ receivers ran at the Combine (or their pro day if they didn’t attend the Combine):
J.J. Nelson: 4.28
John Brown: 4.34
Chad Williams: 4.37
Jaron Brown: 4.40
Brittan Golden: 4.48
“They can put a ‘4 x 100’ team together,” Schwartz said.
That is a little scary.
I’m sick to my stomach.
Injury report said knee.
Jernigan was also out, but word on the street is it was just a rest day.
He suffered a “heel contusion” vs the Chargers but by all means it’s not supposed to cause him any missed playing time.
I picked the Eagles in my survivor pool this week which means there’s a pretty good chance they will loose to the Cardinals…
I’m ok with them being loose against the Cards. Don’t change a thing.
Whyyyyy
Because I couldn’t pick the Steelers again.
Hey All! Best response to the Cowherd rant that I have seen. Says what we all feel who lived with the Eagles during that time, with loads of facts to support it. Cowherd is a Blowhard! Much appreciated!
Another great read, Tommy. Re: the change in defense from Philly to KC, Reid is in no way a proven advocate for any style or scheme of defense. In fact, I believe his success is in no small way linked to having autonomous DC’s who he never had to pay much attention to. Re: DMAC, let’s remember that he was a running QB who excelled at slinging the ball before he ever met AR. Reid’s attempt to make McNabb a WC QB is like the half-filled glass. I lean toward believing that #5 could have put up better numbers and had more victories if his strengths were exploited more than they were. I think he had a fine accounting as an Eagle QB, and I respect AR for demanding allegiance to his scheme – from every player on offense, but Reid’s commitment to WC and pass-heavy game-plans did not play to DMAC’s strengths imo. But it is hard to knock Reid when he is hands down the most successful Eagle HC since the invention of the super bowl.
Yeah, trying to make DMac into Joe Montana was always going to be difficult. You know, I think if Reid had used DMac kind of like Dug using Wentz the last couple games–run heavy, and using the QB more as a wildcard than as the workhorse, they would have been more successful.
Do you remember the PC that McNabb had when he first signed with Washington? “…And we WILL be running the ball!” A credible running attack coupled with some read option…who am I kidding? We’re talking about Andy Reid.
Yeah, I like DP’s approach lately with play calling. In fact, if Eagles can monopolize clock time with the run, they might escape with a win.
Arizona’s not so formidable this year. We should be favored to win.
What about Slants the movie and Fitz the Eagle killer? Apart from our game, I’m looking for 0-4 Chargers to beat the 0-4 Giants, and the Packers to infuriate Jerry Jones.
Fitz is 100 years old, man.
When I think of the DMac/Westbrook era I think of Shawn Andrews and the screen game. Holy crap was that effective… probably some of the best work from that time period.
THOSE NI GGERS ARE LITTLE PAVEMENT APES.
Not sure why we’re concerning ourselves with Andy Reid at this point, but does anyone know the situation with Wendell Smallwood? Apparently he was held out of practice today due to a “knee injury”….
I mean if you read the article it was because a national radio hosts basically called out the organization. Seems to be prevalent to present day Eagles conversation.
So who’s excited for the same game for the third week in a row? Palmer probably can’t throw it deep like he used to, but he doesn’t exactly need a cannon to get to the gaping holes in our soft underneath coverage. It’s gonna be Slants The Movie out there again, followed by one long run for a TD in the 4th and some pretty 25yd corner routes while playing catch up that makes you wonder why nobody has bothered to call them in the 1st quarter for 3 weeks in a row. Fitz catches 10 for 30 yds and 2 TDs.
At this point I’m excited but also know Palmer is probably going to scramble for a long TD or some other crazy thing to keep them in the game
I want a blowout victory in the worst, greediest manner, A whiney crybaby Bruce Arians press conference after and I will be on cloud9
I actually have Fitz down for 14 for 57, 4 TDs including the game winner. Because he always buries our hopes and dreams.
57 yards on 14 catches? Well, at least you’re optimistic on our tackling.
True, though I expect a short passing game, Fitz will probably either beast his way through a few or just strait outrun everyone to the endzone.
Revised prediction: 14 catches for 287 yards and 4 tds, including the game winner.
Palmer likes 3 step drops and no step drops to frustrate the pass rush, so Schwartz ought to counter with Graham dropping into coverage (which he is probably not totally bad at), and Jernigan or Curry clogging the slot. This, of course, can only be effective if the quick pass is called, otherwise they’d run the ball down our throats.
“IF you don’t like Big red then F U”
Here’s why “how great was andy” is a futile pipe dream … from Wikipedia:
..
The NFC East teams have combined to be the most successful division in the NFL since the 1970 NFL merger with 20 NFC Championshipwins and 12 Super Bowl victories, the highest marks of any division in the NFL. Each of the current NFC East’s four teams has won at least three NFL titles during their existence; however, only Philadelphia has yet to win a championship in the Super Bowl era.
.
So andy got rich, made us competitive, drove us all nuts, delivered no ring.
But he’s our greatest but often not our favorite .. not worth the debate. Times yours.
…GEagle?
No. But Def miss him
Where has he gone?!
No idea. . Hope he isn’t bored or in jail or worse ..
Time to bring in Stolarz….
Reid got too much power and made bad decisions. Like Chip Kelly, he should have just listened to Howie.
The part of Colin’s rant that bothers me the most is that it resparked this old, tired argument. There is no new information to consider, opinions have been formed, and what happens in KC will not change how people feel about Reid’s time here.
I remember the good old days last week when I though 4th and 8 was the most overplayed debate this season.
Perfectly summed up. That’s ends it for me.
Goodbye to this subject finally.
Thank you ATG.
I can’t believe we are discussing Andy Reid solely because one radio prick has tried to curse a stir!?
Shall we not rather focus on the Cardinals…?
We’ve fallen into Cowherd’s trap.
The Eagles are bound to break all their legs and lose one zillion to nothing because of us.
Giving Cowherd something else on which to make a stupid comment..
Tommy has. I bet most of us would have been happy to ignore it.
Doesn’t matter if we focus on Cardinals or not, I’m sure the actual Eagles aren’t concerned with a radio shock jock and are preparing for the Cards just fine. But if you want to talk about the only possible way we lose to the Cardinals is if we drop a turd…yeah lets talk about literally anything else.
Hey that Cam seems like a real tool, am I right?
Cam is another prick, and a sexist one. Yes.
In all seriousness, this game does have me a bit nervous, because we really should win…which is always the murder scene of an Eagles fan’s hopes and dreams.
Here’s hoping that his stupid off-field remark will throw him an on-field curveball…
So who’s going to stop John Brown from torching us?
Dude has tiny hands and short arms, and is skinny af. Just beat him up.
Andrew Hunter.
That might have won the internet for today.
Technically the grass at the Linc (where Carson Palmer will be at times that he’s needed for John Brown’s “torching” to have any significant effect at all).
I’m not one who is easily offended (at all). But, the hypocrisy of kneeling during the national anthem, in order to protest social injustice, then 4 hours later laughing at, talking down to, and completely humiliating a woman trying to do her job?
WTF?
edit: If you have only heard the quote, you should watch the video. His body language is much worse than anything he even says.
Wendell Smallwood (knee) did not practice Thursday.
It is a big concern after he sat out Wednesday’s practice as well. He is looking doubtful to face the Cardinals. Corey Clement and Kenjon Barner would likely see more snaps behind LeGarrette Blount if Smallwood sits.
Carson Wentz will (have to) air it out…!
I think Corey can handle it. I wish we’d get to bring up Marshall.
Where did you copy this one from? Sounds like some speculation to me. Sometimes they rest guys and then play them…
It came from Rotoworld. It’s also on NJ.com, Eagleswire and Philly.com. I’m aware that guys get rest days. He missed Wednesday as well, thus cause for at least SOME concern.
Thanks. I just a) take Elliot S. P. with a hell of a lot more than a grain of salt, and i hate jumping to conclusions.
For example, (of course we don’t know what will happen still but)… Today Smallwood was officially declared “Questionable”, rather than “Doubtful” – but the report you cited suggested otherwise…
Call me nitpicky but…
Nitpicky
I was against the idea of letting him go because great coaches are hard to find but he is in a much better situation in KC since he has a real GM and a great Defensive Coordinator so he could focus on coaching which is where he really excels. In Philly, he had too much on his plate that took him away from coaching. He was a below average GM and Jimmy Johnson set the bar so high that new Def Coordinator’s couldn’t replicate.
As for being a mediocre GM, i know he had final say but it could’ve been Howie giving him the choices to pick from. We’ll never know how it really was behind the scenes but since he was ultimately accountable he gets the blame.
OT: This is _really_ OT. One of my hobbies is writing fiction, and I uploaded a story on Medium. I only mention it because it’s in the form of a comment section, which was generally inspired by our free-flowing discourse here. It’s an alternate history of the 2016 Presidential Election.
https://medium.com/@elegantspanishguitar/worst-case-scenario-fa7e6e5eeb09
Well done. I like the Aliens reference, even if you ultimately made me feel less cool for noticing it by making it explicit 🙂 The payoff was executed very well.
Thank you, maybe I should take out the callout, since it’ll only be cool to people who knew it anyway!
Nice. I can see how this alternate reality could become a future reality for a society in collapse mode prior to the internet being shut down.
Let’s hope not! I think it was back in ’07 when some National Guard units were actually called up, and some of our more excitable elements claimed that the _coup had occurred_.
Needs lightsabres.
I do not work at the Glendale Sleep Institute
This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places and incidents either are products of the author’s imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual events or locales or persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental!
Did I make the cut?
Everyone did!
Nice work, but I’m very disappointed I didn’t make the cut.
Note that when I was in third grade, and was cast as Jangles the head elf in the Christmas play, I wanted the Mrs. Claus role because she had more lines. So perhaps my disappointment is an offshoot of that.
You know, I didn’t mean to specifically use anyone’s names, even my own. I was more going for the general feel, how random people’s usernames are, the mix of personalities, the vibe of repartee. You can tell it’s fiction because there’s a girl in there.
*paging GEagle
I’m not sure if he still is living…. or ever on the internet….
Or gets wifi in the padded cell.
Harsh, but deserving of an upvote/golf clap nonetheless.
Where’s Morton?
WOah. That’s old school.
Morton had a niche which unfortunately has not yet been replaced. GE also had a niche.
What’s my niche?
Meant the other one. You’re the amiable German guy.
He is on Twitter. Seems to mostly focus on politics and 76ers.
What’s his twitter name?
Gian Giampaolo
@GEAGLEeye
Are you on Twitter? Do I follow you?
ATG
@ATG_Iggles
Yes I am. And you should follow me. 😉
@tog_rebele
As a European, american football wasn’t on tv for me until the beginning of this millenia – and neither was internet streaming, as most of you might recall. So I didnt fall in love with the sport until around that time, and I pretty much immediately felt that I wanted the Eagles to win and to root for this team. They never won the big game, but those teams has an amazing identity and feel to them and they were so exciting to watch. Reid was a big part of that. As a newcomer to the sport, with few preconceived notions or knowledge about the history of the league, he stood out as a genuinely brilliant, sympathetic and also demanding coach who did things his own way and managed to surround himself with other very smart, outstanding people. I still want the Eagles to win. I genuinely believe that Reid parting was the best thing for all parties involved. And there is no one person who I would rather see win the big game than big red. I think most Eagles fans think about him with the same admiration and respect and would cheer for him, should he go all the way with the Chiefs.