Howie & Joe Getting It Done

Posted: November 2nd, 2017 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 181 Comments »

Carson Wentz has gone from fan favorite to the greatest QB, if not human, of all time. Doug Pederson has gone from questionable hire to the unquestioned leader of the team with the NFL’s best record.

How has the 7-1 start affected Howie Roseman and Joe Douglas?

I wrote a piece for on how the personnel department deserves a lot of credit for how this team is playing this year.

I know Howie remains a polarizing target. Sure he drafted Carson Wentz, Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, Lane Johnson, Mychal Kendricks and Jason Kelce, but he also had Marcus Smith and Danny Watkins. He signed Malcolm Jenkins, Connor Barwin and Nigel Bradham, but also had his hands all over the 2011 Dream Team failure, as well as 237 mediocre CBs.

It is fair to say that Howie needs some postseason success (no playoff wins under him) before we praise the moves too much, but I think it is fair to say that he has learned some valuable lessons from the past and they are serving him, and the Eagles, well. At this point, it looks like Howie’s resume will be defined by Carson Wentz. Right now, that seems like a good thing for the Eagles GM (or what the heck ever his exact title is these days).

As for Douglas, it feels to me like the organization is doing things his way. The Ravens usually focused on their own players, which the Eagles have done this year. Jordan Hicks get hurt, Joe Walker gets his job. Jason Peters gets hurt, Big V gets his job. When you do look for outside help, focus on young players with upside. Caleb Sturgis is replaced by rookie Jake Elliott. At the trade deadline, the Eagles didn’t go grab a 30-year old RB. They traded for a 24-year old player with talent and upside.

The Eagles feel like a true family right now. There is no dysfunctional Juan Castillo-Jim Washburn-Todd Bowles thing going on. There is no Howie-Chip thing going on. There is true stability at QB. All of this gives me hope that this isn’t just a hot start, but is what the Eagles can be for an extended run over several seasons.

Sure helps to have this guy.


181 Comments on “Howie & Joe Getting It Done”

  1. 1 daveH said at 10:59 PM on November 2nd, 2017:
    F YEAH !!

    Forget the silly dilly dilly, BRING BACK THE YAGERMEISTER GUY !!!!

  2. 2 the guy said at 11:04 PM on November 2nd, 2017:

    Can’t wait until late December 2020 when I can finally stop waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  3. 3 dandynator said at 11:23 PM on November 2nd, 2017:

    the look on ray lewis face when talking about our dfense and front 7 just made my day

  4. 4 Masked Man said at 1:11 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Howie 2.0 has been awesome.
    Only 40 years old.
    Potentially the best GM type in the NFL now.
    He might run the organization for the Lurie Family for the next 20 years.
    Bodes well for the Philadelphia Eagles.
    And that Joe Douglas dude ain’t bad either!
    It’s the HOWIE AND JOE SHOW!

  5. 5 Guy Media said at 5:01 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    So much for that whole “check down” BS from last year with Wentz. 60% on completion is low by today’s standards, so ball is definitely being pushed down the field this year. Hopefully the air yards guy apologizes of electrocutes himself. We’ll get Fahey and Skip soon enough as well.

  6. 6 D3FB said at 10:21 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    F/O wrote a “whoops we were wrong Air Yards are actually a WR stat not a QB stat, haha awkward, Wentz is good too” piece yesterday.

    Cian’s just a troll at this point.

  7. 7 Guy Media said at 6:07 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Nice updates on the air yards douche humbling himself. I Fahey can continue to troll all he’d like, but he’s also in need of a humbling.

  8. 8 Masked Man said at 11:49 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    While the completion % is on the low side around 60%, the TD-INT ratio is outstanding. A 2:1 ratio is not bad and Wentz is better than 4:1 in October at 14:3.

    I think Wentz is forcing the ball less and throwing it out of bounds a little more, causing the somewhat lower completion %. Maybe somebody around here can tally that more exactly.

  9. 9 Guy Media said at 6:08 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Yeah, all good points. I was just pointing out that he’s been that good even with not completing a particularly high % of his passes.

  10. 10 ChoTime said at 3:35 PM on November 4th, 2017:

    He was a shortballer last year, and he didn’t play that well. This year, he’s airing it out and is one of the better QBs in the league. I don’t see how any of that is the fault of a talking head, a stat, or football outsiders.

  11. 11 Jean Souza said at 6:17 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Hi guys, I’m from Brazil and this weekend I’ll go to Philly to watch the Eagles!! My first time in Philly. I would like to know if you could give me some tips, like the best places to eat a Philly cheesesteak and where is safe to leave my car (i did not buy the ticket to the parking lot in the Financial Field). Thank you guys.

  12. 12 Rob Jarratt said at 7:31 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Can’t help you out, Jean (I live in Maine), but welcome to Philly. I’m sure someone on this site can help you out. May you be our good luck charm on Sunday. The Linc is a great place to be among fellow Eagles’ fans. I’m sure you know about fan intensity coming from Brazil.

  13. 13 Jean Souza said at 8:56 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Yes, soccer fans in Brazil are really insane. It is going to be a fantastic experience.

  14. 14 Ray888 said at 11:50 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Is your electric back on, do you have a generator, or did Mother Nature pas you by?

  15. 15 Forthebirds said at 7:34 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    For a cheese steak go to Jim’s on South Street.

  16. 16 A_T_G said at 7:42 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    If you are not flying directly into Philly, or maybe even if you are, the SEPTA train/subway system is a good option to get to the game. When i go, I drive to the furthest out station, park, and take a train that quickly fills with midnight green passengers and often breaks into a few rounds of the Eagles fight song before arriving at the station by the stadium.

  17. 17 GermanEagle said at 8:34 AM on November 3rd, 2017:


  18. 18 Sb2bowl said at 8:42 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    You can still park at or near the stadium- usually runs about $40 for the spot though.
    Get there early (9am or earlier) and walk around. The stadium offers a number of activities around the sports complex. Food and drink is expensive.
    If you have the opportunity, Center city is pretty neat to walk around in; lots of good cheesesteak places. Jim’s, Pat’s, Gino’s. A number of others in the different parts of the city.
    Have a great time! Are you flying into the Philadelphia airport? If so, the stadium complex is only 15 minutes (drive) from there. You might be able to take an Uber and get dropped off, rather than pay for parking.

  19. 19 Jean Souza said at 8:55 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    No, I will arrive in Pittsburgh, then I will drive to Philly.

  20. 20 Julescat said at 9:33 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    long drive

    probably 6 hours on the PA turnpike.

  21. 21 Sb2bowl said at 9:43 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Have a safe trip.

  22. 22 P_P_K said at 8:56 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Have a great time in the City of Brotherly Love.

  23. 23 Jean Souza said at 8:56 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Thank you guys from this awesome community. The comments were very helpful.

  24. 24 Buge Halls said at 9:51 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I’d stay away form the big “name” places like Geno’s or Pat’s – their assembly-line subs suck! Find a small Italian place that makes them to order with real shaved beef, not pressed meat. And the steak should be chopped, not served in slices like Steak-umms! I prefer provolone cheese (or American if they don’t have provolone) instead of the cheesewiz, but that’s just a personal preference.

  25. 25 Dragon_Eagle said at 9:57 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    100% agree with this. The small pizza shops do cheesesteaks the best.

  26. 26 D3FB said at 10:19 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Go to Jim’s on south street.

    That way you can have the best cheesesteak and then do some walking around.

  27. 27 SteveH said at 10:28 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Oi Jean, what part of Brazil are you from? My girlfriend is from Fortaleza, she is still learning football but has become a dedicated Eagles fan :).

  28. 28 Bert's Bells said at 10:29 AM on November 3rd, 2017:


    (had to do it)

  29. 29 SteveH said at 10:30 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    She would murder me, literally, lol. :p

  30. 30 Jean Souza said at 7:00 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Hi, I’m from Curitiba, but currently I’m living in Campinas/SP

  31. 31 Bert's Bells said at 10:29 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    To move from the Eagles a bit – Philly has some of the best museums in America. Even though I hate hate hate the new Barnes, their
    collection is awesome (not as a good an experience as it used to be), the Mutter is great for oddities, and the Art Museum is all that and a Rocky statue.

  32. 32 Guy Media said at 6:05 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I think a lot of them are good and you’ll enjoy trying them from several spots. I would just skip Geno’s.

  33. 33 eagleyankfan said at 7:31 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    What a start to the season. I’m certainly not the type to start parades mid-season or start congratulating front office after 8 games. Good start and ship is pointed in the right direction. Just now entering the important part of the season…Nov/Dec…Good teams win in those months…

  34. 34 levdog said at 8:28 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Everything is good, my only question is where is Geagle? any sightings

  35. 35 GermanEagle said at 8:31 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    He seems to be ok. Thanks to ATG I decided to follow him on Twitter, only to unfollow him the next day. He was spamming my Twitter timeline with hundreds of political tweets only…

  36. 36 Sb2bowl said at 8:44 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Had the same experience with him. Love the guy, but my Twitter turned into GeagleTwit and that would not do.

  37. 37 CrackSammich said at 12:01 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Ah. So he focused his all-seeing-eye on politics instead of sports. I guess that makes sense.

  38. 38 Guy Media said at 6:05 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    What is his twitter handle?

  39. 39 GermanEagle said at 7:05 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Ask ATG. I have deleted it from my memory. lol

  40. 40 Ark87 said at 11:10 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I half suspect him being responsible for all the strange occurrences systematically clearing all the obstacles off the Eagles’ path to winning the superbowl. Look out TB12 and everyone propping up these Zeke Elliot suspension delays.

  41. 41 Buge Halls said at 9:43 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The draft is always a roll of the dice – except to those with 20/20 hindsight!

    And it’s a shame that Caleb Sturgiswasn’t health before the trade deadline – the Eagles probably could have gotten a pick for him – there are a lot of teams still trying new kickers.

  42. 42 Stephen E. said at 12:50 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It’s OK… we’ll get a pick for him after next preseason.

  43. 43 Philadelphian said at 10:39 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    When it comes to Roseman what too many never understand is even though he lacks a football pedigree he isn’t stupid. Roseman has made mistakes, though I question how many mistakes were actually his, but he’s smart enough to learn from them and appears to be better at his job.

    While constantly demanding Roseman’s firing too many in the fan base don’t seem to understand that finding the “right” GM is about as easy as finding a needle in a haystack.

    The bottom line is no matter how extensive a person’s background in football, unless already proven, he or she is unlikely to have a better chance of succeeding than Howie Roseman.

  44. 44 Bert's Bells said at 11:34 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Most of us lack “football pedigree”, but honestly, it ain’t rocket surgery. Any intelligent person can learn evaluation and management.

  45. 45 CrackSammich said at 12:07 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Any intelligent person can learn to *coordinate and trust the people who can do* evaluation and management.

    The best thing Howie can do hire good people and trust their judgement. It seems like he’s doing that with Douglas.

  46. 46 D3FB said at 3:17 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    This. The argument that he’s not a “football guy” and can’t evaluate, despite the fact that he’s been involved in that process for a decade on a professional level with all the resources he needs should he ever have a question is just silly.

  47. 47 Philadelphian said at 8:06 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I do believe whether you have a football pedigree or not you still have to learn the job, but more than anything it comes down to the people you hire.

  48. 48 CrackSammich said at 12:00 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I agree with your statement that Roseman is doing better because he seems to be learning from mistakes. That’s the whole issue with GM’s in the first place, is that most never last long enough to gain any kind of useful experience. And by they have that “learning moment”, they’re on the way out the door.

  49. 49 Bert's Bells said at 12:02 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Great point.

  50. 50 Gary Barnes said at 12:19 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It is very rare that a GM would get two shots at the same job like Roseman has here.

    Likely made him re-evaluate everything and make sure he got it right this time which shows his growth as an executive and manager of people.

    The Chip experience seems to have humbled him and taught him he needed help. Talent evaluation has always been his weakness so Douglas filled a vital need and complimented Roseman’s strengths in contracts/cap mgmt, trade negotiations and coordination with Lurie.

  51. 51 or____ said at 12:32 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It’s a bit of a stretch to call it 2 shots though. The way it was handled – the “in between period” – was very clear that Jeffrey didn’t want to cut ties.

  52. 52 Gary Barnes said at 1:50 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Roseman was made GM in 2010 when Heckert left. Reid still had final say authority, but Roseman was involved in all decision making and handled all the normal facets of the job.

    When Reid left after the 2012 season, Roseman stayed as GM and was given final say authority. Chip was brought in as HC. Lurie could have let Roseman go at this point, but decided to keep him on.

    After the 2014 season, Chip was given final say authority while Roseman was shifted over to EVP of football operations. Lurie could have again let Roseman go, but again kept him around.

    When Chip was fired, Roseman got his second chance to be GM with final say authority.

    Roseman had a mixed track record until this second opportunity; he has been much more effective this time which shows me his growth and understanding of what the job requires.

  53. 53 Tumtum said at 8:43 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    How long does one have to scout football to be considered adequate at evaluating talent? I think the dude has been doing it long enough to earn a couple doctorates. I hate that knock on the guy.

  54. 54 Tumtum said at 8:44 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Well I just read Bert’s comment and now mine is useless oh well.

  55. 55 Philadelphian said at 10:35 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The thing is no one really seems to know at what point Roseman took control.

  56. 56 SteveH said at 10:41 AM on November 3rd, 2017:


  57. 57 A_T_G said at 10:57 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Yep, the motion to delay things until a decision can be made on the appeal to the failed motion to delay things until a decision can be made on the motion to overrule the decision that was made has been granted…obviously.

  58. 58 or____ said at 11:12 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Stop oversimplifying.

  59. 59 Howie Littlefinger said at 12:28 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Stop simplyoverfying

    Fuck the cowboys fuck Zeke. i hope they have him in against us and he gets shut down. i’m going to enjoy when they finally start using this as an excuse or distraction to the team. This hype train wreck is proof football is simply for entertainment lol

  60. 60 Tumtum said at 8:40 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The only thing I was able to decipher in what you just said is that lawyers are making a lot of money.

  61. 61 Ark87 said at 11:06 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    it’s unreal, I can’t imagine how much cash is being sent to various judges across the country to keep this circus going

  62. 62 A_T_G said at 11:19 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Would it be the greatest thing ever if the suspension ends up stretched over two seasons and gives them 3 losses in each?

  63. 63 Bert's Bells said at 11:32 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I’d love it if they landed a wild card spot and he was suspended for it.

  64. 64 Eagles4life said at 11:25 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    No worries, he will be suspended from Nov 19 for 6 weeks and comes back last game of the season with against when cowgirls have missed the playoffs already

  65. 65 Julescat said at 12:06 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I had posted about a week ago that the NFL should just let the union decide punishments. The response to that post was derision but basically that is what is happening now.

    I saw this at an auto parts plant that i toured once. The plant manager said he caught workers violating rules every day but the union would fight any discipline. Every hearing would result in no punishment for the worker (but a stern warning to not do it again). The workers knew this. The union knew this and so did the manager. There really weren’t any enforceable rules.

    This case just proves the NFL punishment is a joke. Unless the violation is so heinous that there is a public outcry then why bother.

  66. 66 Bert's Bells said at 12:21 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I actually agree with you.

    Self-regulating societies have a stronger normalizing impact on behavior than police states. Foucault wrote a lot about this, especially around the idea of the panopticon.

    There are lots effects and side effects but in a situation like the NFLPA those wouldn’t be likely to be in play.

  67. 67 bill said at 2:46 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Elinor Ostrom won a Nobel Prize about the benefits of self-regulating societies. Her work was a fantastic application of the scientific method in a field that has long disdained empirical efforts. I can’t recommend her work enough.

    And yeah, you’d have to totally re-make the NFLPA in order make self-regulation a possibility.

  68. 68 Bert's Bells said at 2:49 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Thanks for the tip! Don’t know her at all.

  69. 69 Dragon_Eagle said at 12:29 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Heh heh. Let the circus roll. Zeke didn’t practice all week. On and off again just makes it a bigger distraction.

  70. 70 Tumtum said at 8:39 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I want to mess them up when they are at their best. No excuses like when we were going to the NFCCG every year. I don’t want to hear we are beating up on a weak East. I want to hear that we dominated the best division in football.

  71. 71 or____ said at 11:28 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Nice, Hamilton back on the practice squad.

  72. 72 A_T_G said at 11:45 AM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I think the terminology is “Hamilton returns for an encore performance…”

  73. 73 unhinged said at 12:07 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Nicely played, maestro.

  74. 74 laeagle said at 7:10 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    We’re seeing Hamilton tonight. Very excited. Defensive linemen are always much more impressive when seen live.

  75. 75 A_T_G said at 12:03 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Watch how easy Mack makes this look:

  76. 76 CrackSammich said at 12:10 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Brown and Johnson also looked very sure handed.

    Gibson still bobbling the ball…

  77. 77 SteveH said at 12:10 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Of course Gibson with the 2 handed double clutch in a 1 hand catch drill.

  78. 78 Henly125 said at 1:13 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Poor guy’s overwhelmed.

  79. 79 A_T_G said at 4:10 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Yep, too many hand touches by 300%.

  80. 80 Henly125 said at 1:12 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Love Hollins. He’s so fluid and makes it look soo easy. I would be disappointed if he doesn’t snatch Torrey Smith’s job by December.

  81. 81 Mac said at 2:45 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Which makes Alshon expendable (imho)

  82. 82 A_T_G said at 4:08 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I’d say Torrey, but yeah, he is the future.

  83. 83 Tumtum said at 8:37 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    He is the new Stewart Bradley for sure.

  84. 84 meteorologist said at 2:59 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    They almost all make it look easy. NFL athletes are so impressive

  85. 85 A_T_G said at 4:07 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Totally agree.

    But even by that standard, he looks smoother. He doesn’t shudder step getting it lined up or contort his body or wait with him arm in the air. He just looks, reaches up, and plucks it.

  86. 86 Tumtum said at 8:35 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Almost as easy as Celek! Burton..use both hands my dude.

  87. 87 unhinged said at 12:06 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It appears that there is barely cloaked subtext to the Elliot suspension. Remember, Roger Goodell is little more than a spokesman for the majority of owners. When Goodell pressed the legal options for the NFL’s suspension of Tom Brady, it was at the behest of a majority, many of whom own franchises that directly experienced what they perceived to be a double standard being applied to NE. And, to be fair, there was also just simply sour grapes. The owners are typically private and confidential when it comes to how their group votes. But the Brady suspension was clearly a broad swipe at the regal highness of Robert Kraft.
    Now we have the owner that has used his experienced legal team, his folksy charm and his Texas-rooted political ties to openly pit himself against the retention of Goodell. It’s worth acknowledging that Jerry Jones’ track record in his quest to have his way in the NFL appears to be pretty successful. He took on Paul Tagliabue on the legal right to leverage his stadium costs by cutting exorbitant private deals with multiple vendors that didn’t have league-wide commitments.

    If Jones succeeds in canceling Goodell’s tenure, it will be hard to glean whether it is because a majority don’t want to take on Jones, or it may be that Goodell has irked more of the owners than the public knows about.

    Jones has this “my way” air about how he conducts himself. He clearly has no misgivings about signing talented thugs to amass more revenue, but he is all apple pie and Mr. Righteous about ordering (league-wide) players to stand for the national anthem. To my knowledge, it hasn’t been stated, but the handling of the player protests may be driving Jones’ push against Goodell. Whereas Jones wants a showdown – in the courts most likely – Goodell has sought to arrive at a negotiated conclusion to this distraction, where players recognize the costs to themselves if the league image is compromised more than it is already with CTE. I think the stakes for the league are profound. Jones and all billionaires like certainty and good odds when they risk sizable portions of their estates. Goodell has seen, perhaps more clearly than any single owner how seriously offended and aggrieved a wide swath of players are over the political status quo, where enforcement of criminal law is often times racially based.
    Add to this quandary, the public ranting of a president who has repeatedly given aid and comfort to angry white racists. With this latest confronting of Goodell, Jerry Jones has quickly and riskily jumped on the Trump bandwagon. Jones is slated to be voted into the NFL HOF. If Goodell loses out to Jones, and the league adopts a no tolerance approach on the anthem, the owners may need to accommodate the NFLPA on all manner of unforeseen, unrelated issues. There may well be bitter chaos that would make kneeling for a song seem like a very small controversy.

  88. 88 Julescat said at 12:11 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    good grief

  89. 89 unhinged said at 12:26 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    And now there is this:

  90. 90 Bert's Bells said at 12:40 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Not seeing that douchebag “Papa” John 500 times every Sunday, regardless of one’s stance on social justice, makes the player protests a winning cause for everybody.

  91. 91 bill said at 2:54 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Again, no matter your stance on the underlying issue(s), this is a pretty funny take:

  92. 92 Bert's Bells said at 3:06 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I was with him until Auntie Anne’s at the end. Auntie Anne can die in a gas fire and take her cinnamon pretzel excuses back to Hell with her.

  93. 93 CrackSammich said at 3:37 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The beauty of websites like Deadspin and Cracked is that they’re often pretty well researched, insightful articles masquerading as low brow dick jokes and takez.

  94. 94 Julescat said at 1:09 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    if they are losing business due to backlash from the NFL then who’s to blame them from reducing advertising there? Advertising is a tough business and we know that NFL ratings are down. The whole “pulling strings” theory is just clickbait from a site looking for attention.

    Give your audience what they want.

  95. 95 CrackSammich said at 1:16 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    You continuously have an attribution error on this topic.

    Facts: There is a protest. Ratings are down. Sales for Papa Johns are down.
    Assumptions: These have a causal relationship.

    It very well could be that ratings are down because of NFL protests. But there’s no real evidence to back that up. “Papa John” has been increasingly vocal and visible about his politics. That’s going to create backlash. Perhaps that’s a reason. Perhaps his pizzas just sucks. Who knows. You sure don’t.

  96. 96 Julescat said at 1:20 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I did start off my post with the word “if”. That would show that I don’t know and I was presenting my theory.

    I doubt the management at Papa John’s would do something that would materially hurt the business no matter their personal beliefs. I think the decrease in ratings plus people contacting sponsors has an effect.

  97. 97 RobNE said at 1:21 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I think you can’t assume all actors act rationally in their best interests.

  98. 98 Julescat said at 1:23 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I guess I’m assuming that all corporate decisions get run through committees and need tons of approval and legal research. That’s why I assumed it was a rational approach.

    then again, what do I know.

  99. 99 RobNE said at 1:25 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    doubtful when it’s basically one guy.

  100. 100 Julescat said at 1:27 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The company operates and franchises pizza delivery and carryout restaurants under the trademark ‘Papa John’s,’ currently in 49 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and 26 countries.

  101. 101 RobNE said at 1:31 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    yes that one. The owner we are talking about owns 25% of the public company and is worth about $600 million. So he can say whatever the hell he wants.

  102. 102 laeagle said at 7:08 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The automatic assumption that the size and corporate status of a company has anything to do with the rationality or worthiness of its actions is the source of a lot of problems these days.

  103. 103 bill said at 3:01 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    But he may actually be acting rationally in this part – he may be courting the “fire all them disrespectful *****s. I’m boycotting the NFL until they do!”

    The marketing data (And I’m making a pretty logical assumption that an operation like PJ’s has a ton of it) may reveal that these people are a large portion of his customers. This statement acts as a form of virtue signalling, and possibly gets them to buy more “because I want to support the guy who said that!”

    Who knows. I agree that it’s pretty obviously not a causal relationship like he asserts. Beyond that, there are a lot of question marks and assumptions.

  104. 104 RobNE said at 3:06 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It may be just marketing, if that is what you are suggestion yes it could be but is Trump just marketing his racism or is he racist or is it both, or does it even matter if in the end he is furthering along racism. Or autocracy. I’ve decided it doesn’t matter to me, just the outcome. I don’t need to know what they think in their heart of hearts.

  105. 105 Julescat said at 3:58 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    you tend to throw out the word “racist” or “racism” a lot

  106. 106 RobNE said at 5:56 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Because the president and lots of his advisors like the attorney general are racist. I’ve been using the word “corrupt” a lot more this year too.

  107. 107 Bert's Bells said at 3:18 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    This is a good point.

    He may not be losing business because the protests, but he can cynically gain business from it by suckering rubes with his phony victimhood.

  108. 108 CrackSammich said at 3:39 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It’s a tough gambit. He could also lose business from rubes on the other end.

  109. 109 bill said at 3:48 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Like I said, it depends heavily on marketing data, which I’m sure they have massive amounts.

  110. 110 CrackSammich said at 3:53 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I’m sure they have lots of marketing data. I’m not sure they’re using it. Consider the Browns. I’m sure they spend the same amount of money on scouts as everyone else. Then the GM ignores them and does whatever he wants. Papa might be the Browns.

  111. 111 bill said at 3:59 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    That’s fair. Like I said – lots of question marks.

  112. 112 Bert's Bells said at 3:55 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    And so it goes, “no one ever went broke underestimating the American people.”

  113. 113 unhinged said at 4:22 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Did you leave out “the stupidity of”?

  114. 114 Bert's Bells said at 8:49 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It’s sort of a Mad Lib.

  115. 115 Julescat said at 3:55 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    “phony victimhood”

    is that like multi millionaire Michael Bennett of the Seahawks who claimed he was profiled and assaulted by Las Vegas cops. Then the body cam video was released showing Bennett refusing to obey, running and hiding and then using the “I’m an NFL player” card to avoid arrest. Bennett even thanks the cop and shakes his hand afterwards. Then he runs to the media to cry “phony victimhood”

    Funny how the kneeling crowd had no problem with this. Talk about “rubes”

  116. 116 A_T_G said at 6:28 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Wow, so much wrong here…
    Irrelevant deflection of a solid point, obviously, but also there is no kneeling crowd. That is just a false construct created to allow those who disagree to assign the worst traits of those with whom they disagree to everyone with whom they disagree. Certainly you must see that, right?

    Finally, why on Earth would Bennett run to the media crying “phony victimhood?” Wouldn’t that give it away?

  117. 117 Guy Media said at 6:30 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    “Wow, so much wrong here…”

    par for that one’s nonsensical course.

  118. 118 Julescat said at 6:38 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Bennett ran to the media before the body cam tape was released. I guess he wanted to get in front of the story. listening to Bennett talk, brains aren’t his strong suit.

  119. 119 A_T_G said at 12:32 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    I know the Bennett story. It was a stupid move. It gives people an excuse to dismiss the valid debate because of one invalid instance.

    Regardless, it is irrelevant to the fact that Papa Johns has been bleeding for a year and is now trying to blame it on protests that began months ago. Whether John blames the protests because of his own beliefs, or whether he is trying to exploit those that blame the protestors in the same way as the politician he supports, the timeline says it is bullshit.

    But I think you already recognized that, which is why we are talking about Bennett.

  120. 120 Bert's Bells said at 8:50 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    No. It’s its own thing. Stop moving the goalposts.

  121. 121 RobNE said at 1:20 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I doubt the other advertisers have seen a drop in revenue, so it’s much more likely a combination of: 1) he aligned himself with Trump, 2) bad pizza revenue is down across the board or 3) their pizza is particularly bad. 3 was already a constant, so I go with 1 and 2.

  122. 122 A_T_G said at 1:24 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    To add data to the conversation, Papa John’s stock has been falling for over a year, pretty steadily:

  123. 123 A Roy said at 2:23 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Well, his pizza DOES suck…

  124. 124 Bert's Bells said at 2:25 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I had it at a party once. Once.

    And I never talked to the hosts again.

    True story.

  125. 125 A Roy said at 2:27 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

  126. 126 SteveH said at 4:31 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Papa John’s is awful. I avoid it like the plague.

  127. 127 Julescat said at 6:35 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    how would you rank the national pizza chains?

    if forced to eat at one, you would choose……

  128. 128 SteveH said at 9:53 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Pizza Hut, if not them then Dominoes.

  129. 129 DarthBanner said at 9:55 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    The one fact we do know is that papa johns pizza sucks.

  130. 130 unhinged said at 1:45 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    That’s the big unknown. I doubt your conclusion. This looks like secondary instigating. The Elliot debacle is business as usual. When ideological feathers fly, as in the “my way” vs common interest exploitation, that’s a different thing. Jones has gone out on a limb, and this charge sounds very plausible to me.

  131. 131 RobNE said at 1:22 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I really, really doubt Jones will success in ousting him, I am doubtful that’s even his goal he is just working the ref.

  132. 132 Gary Barnes said at 1:56 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    As Guy Media says, Jones is a REMF

    In other words, a hypocritical and gutless scumbag

  133. 133 CrackSammich said at 12:11 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    “The Eagles feel like a true family right now. There is no dysfunctional Juan Castillo-Jim Washburn-Todd Bowles thing going on. ”

    I don’t know if you heard, Tommy, but Jim Shorts is angling for the HC job and is undermining Dug at every turn.

    And speaking of Bowles, that dude really doesn’t know how to tank. What an awful coach!

  134. 134 or____ said at 12:12 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    If you wanted to say Jeff McClane has a childish ego, you could just say it. No need to spread rumors.

  135. 135 Henly125 said at 1:09 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The Jets went into the season labeled as “having the worst roster in the league”, and yet, here they are a game shy of a .500 record. With a promising defense that limited Shady to only 25 yards last night.

    I respect Bowles from afar. Good defensive mind.

  136. 136 SteveH said at 12:12 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    So, anyone know the extent of Ertz’s injury? Not having him would be a big deal I think, against this Broncos pass defense.

  137. 137 or____ said at 12:13 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Nope, nobody does. He’s slated to play per bleacher-report so he probably will. But nobody knows and nobody will till the game. It’s a hammy afterall

  138. 138 A_T_G said at 1:15 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    The beat guys got to watch some of today’s practice. The report was that Ertz wasn’t catching passes with the other receivers and instead was getting stretched out on the sideline.

    I am pretty sure that report gives us no actual insight for Sunday, however.

  139. 139 kajomo said at 4:54 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Tom McManus said that it was no big deal and was expected to be full go on sunday

  140. 140 SteveH said at 7:30 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Great news!

  141. 141 Ark87 said at 12:32 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Maybe my memory is off, but when Lane got suspended and he went to the NFLPA saying, hey the thing that got me suspended was approved by you, you got my back? They told him to fuck off, you should have known better. But they will ride or die for an all-around scumbag like Zeke? I don’t get it.

  142. 142 Henly125 said at 1:03 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Very well said. My guess is that they’re fighting for Zeke to prolong the timing of the process so that when he’s suspended down the stretch, the Cowboys press can use that as an excuse for why they’re not repeating last year’s success.

    It just seems like a set of buttons a guy like Jerry Jones would be willing to play with in order to protect his team’s image and please his fans in the process. The guy has pull, especially with the NFLPA..

    Or, maybe I truly do abnormally despise Dallas for assuming this haha

  143. 143 Julescat said at 1:11 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    but one is a failed drug test and the other is a suspension for misbehaving in public. The second is harder to prove. There was no public outcry over his actions. I could easily see this suspension never happening.

  144. 144 Tumtum said at 1:33 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Exactly. Apples and Oranges. One violates the CBA, the other is for something that is left in very vague terms. Sort of like anything not covered in the constitution is governed by the states. It is less about fighting for Zeke and more about fighting for control.

  145. 145 Sean E said at 3:04 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It’s extremely easy to prove that he sexually assaulted a woman in public, because it was on live tv.

  146. 146 FairOaks said at 3:54 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    That wasn’t really what he was suspended for though — that was not the domestic violence incident. The report noted it, though said it did not add any games due to it, though reading between the lines that incident may have removed any chance of the suspension being reduced to less than six games.

  147. 147 Bert's Bells said at 1:49 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Also, the Cowboys are on Elliot’s side here too.

    With Johnson, the Eagles pretty much said “make an appeal, then do the time.”

  148. 148 FairOaks said at 3:48 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    Would have been worse to delay it and have it affect this season too.

  149. 149 Bert's Bells said at 9:03 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    Yup. Eagles made the right call.

  150. 150 FairOaks said at 3:52 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    One is a failed drug test, about there was little question, and which the procedures are detailed and agreed upon in the CBA. The main question is if there was any guarantee behind the NFLPA approval, i.e. would another group assume financial liability if they were wrong, and clearly they were not interested in that. That would actually hurt the NFLPA itself; the league was not really involved in that situation. Not too surprising the NFLPA wasn’t going to fight for him because they themselves might have been liable.

    The second is a somewhat arbitrary process invented in fits and starts by the commissioner. There are vague guidelines in the CBA, but much less which is explicit. The NFLPA will fight that stuff, for sure. They can (and should) fight for their players on this stuff; the NFL has not handled many other similar cases all that well.

    Unfortunately, it’s almost now a habit, even when the NFL does a pretty thorough job (deflate gate), and they can turn these into a circus.

    The criminal courts use “beyond a reasonable doubt” while the NFL (and civil courts) uses “preponderance of the evidence”, so it’s easily possible that something not worth it to try in criminal court could be something the NFL could decide was above its different threshold of the evidence. This one seemed investigated reasonably well — a baseline of 6 games for domestic violence had previously been announced by the league — but the NFLPA at this point will fight tooth and nail regardless.

    The only way it could be way wrong is if there was evidence that the photos were faked somehow, or someone else caused the injuries that were shown — there was no acceptance of that possibility in the NFL report. Otherwise they seemed to rule purely on the photographic evidence, and discounted any other claims from the victim, who apparently did have some credibility issues.

  151. 151 laeagle said at 7:03 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    let’s be clear, though: Johnson used a supplement that was listed in the PA’s app with a big green checkmark next to it saying, “All good!”, with fine print hidden away that essentially said, “don’t believe a goddamned thing we say on this worthless app of ours”.

    The union failed one of their members on that one. From a design perspective, if you say something is OK to use, but you probably still shouldn’t use it, don’t put a big fucking green checkmark next to it. Or just don’t say anything at all. Johnson got screwed.

  152. 152 FairOaks said at 7:25 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Oh sure. But the NFL had nothing to do with that, so Lane was arguing the NFLPA should pay his missed salary, or something like that. Not very surprising they wouldn’t spent much effort there. That was more a beef between Lane and the NFLPA, not Lane and the NFL (where the PA might have his back).

    The NFLPA’s app was the first basic level of vetting for drugs — there was nothing on the *listed* ingredients which indicated a problem. However, they don’t offer a service which does actual chemical testing to prove there are no bad ingredients (that would cost more serious money), so in the end the players are on their own. And they most especially won’t admit to any liability if they are wrong (that is serious money given the lost salaries). Given Lane’s situation, with one drug mishap already accrued, he should not be the first one trying new products. Only use ones that other players are using, and testing OK while using. Let someone with no previous suspensions be the guinea pig for a new product. That was dumb on Lane’s part.

  153. 153 Tumtum said at 1:29 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Very interested to see how many flees go flying from the bandwagon after this L Denver is gonna drop on us.

  154. 154 RobNE said at 1:33 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I’ll still be here (on the bandwagon, and here here at IB).

  155. 155 Tumtum said at 1:34 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I imagine most IBer will be here! Especially a guy like you who sticks around all off-season.

  156. 156 Mac said at 2:43 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    This post makes me feel uncomfortable.

  157. 157 A_T_G said at 4:04 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Hey, are you the owner of the Dumpster Fire team in the FF league that recruited from here? If so, I wanted to offer my condolences. You had a scary good team until Zeke and then Watson news.

  158. 158 Mac said at 5:37 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Yeah, that’s my team. Thanks… fantasy football is soooo very up and down.

  159. 159 Tumtum said at 8:32 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Lol, why? Most fans here are here year after year. I wasn’t really expecting most on this board to depart. I did have a weird typo for a minute earlier. You know..phones…work..big hands… ugggg

  160. 160 Mac said at 10:57 PM on November 4th, 2017:


  161. 161 kajomo said at 2:17 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Nationally people would cool on the eagles, but this fan base knows what we have in this team. The Dallas game is the real key moving forward.

    That said I really don’t see a loss coming this week. This will be Demver’s 3rd straight road game, coming on a short week, after a tough divisional game. Brock is still Brock. He is a guy who was traded just to get rid of his salary and could start for the Browns.

    I think it will start close before we pull away in the 2nd half

  162. 162 unhinged said at 4:16 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I’ll happily trade a loss to Denver for a sweep of the NFC East. My big concern this week is how roughed up CW could be by their DL.

  163. 163 Ark87 said at 5:18 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    We don’t get to make a trade. Could lose against Denver and get swept by the Cowboys, or beat Denver and sweep the NFC East too. Don’t bother bargaining, just root for 15-1. Be greedy, and expect your team to be greedy, no settling here.

  164. 164 daveH said at 5:31 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Copied & pasted. Sweet

  165. 165 unhinged said at 8:23 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Got it Mr G.

  166. 166 Guy Media said at 6:00 PM on November 3rd, 2017:


  167. 167 Insomniac said at 8:08 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    It’s just Von Miller that terrifies me in that front 7. Shaq Barrett is pretty good as well but he should be manageable.

  168. 168 Ark87 said at 5:16 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Lets let the game be played. It’s not destiny or focus or desire or someone being better than someone else, it’s a coin toss that has a side somewhat weighted in favor of the better team. It will be interesting to see if they drop an L on us.

  169. 169 Guy Media said at 5:59 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Depressed much? I know we could lose, but all that would show is that the Eagles choked.

  170. 170 Tumtum said at 6:29 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I see Denver as a highly talented team, simply lacking a QB and solid coaching. I very much believe in temporary burst in adrenaline that can carry a bad/inconsistent team through a superior opponent.

    Have seen it here too much.

  171. 171 Guy Media said at 6:31 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I 100% agree this could be a trap game for all of those reasons, but I still can’t predict a loss………..but everybody on the team associated with a loss, if it were to happen, should be called out as a completely gutless and unfocused piece of garbage.

    With no due respect to Denver, this is our game to win or our game to choke.

  172. 172 Tumtum said at 8:30 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Yeah, there is something wrong with me. I don’t think I have confidently predicted a win other than SF this whole season.

  173. 173 meteorologist said at 2:14 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    I’m sure this has been shared already but just in case:

  174. 174 Dragon_Eagle said at 11:16 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Saw this over on BGN. Sounds right, but Howie Fucking A Roseman traded Sam Bradford for Derek Barnett and Jay Ajayi.

    Good job, Howie.

  175. 175 FairOaks said at 11:20 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Might depend on how the 4th round picks end up, but could be about right. Eagles have their own, the Patriots, and the Vikings pick, and I think we trade the middle one of those. For it to be the Vikings pick, either us or the Patriots needs to finish worse 😉 (Or, miraculously, Rowe plays 50% of snaps and we get the Patriots 3rd round pick, and finish ahead of Vikings.)

  176. 176 A_T_G said at 7:38 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    The exact details might be a bit off, but it is still a good metric to marvel at Howie Doit.

    Bradford => Barnett and Ajayi
    Rowe => Ajayi

  177. 177 P_P_K said at 11:36 PM on November 3rd, 2017:

    Hard to argue with logic like that.

  178. 178 wee2424 said at 12:03 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    Hats off to HW and Doug. The past 2 drafts with lats years especially looks like hits. Cant wait to see how Jones turns out.

  179. 179 BlindChow said at 1:35 AM on November 4th, 2017:



  180. 180 Ryan Rambo said at 7:35 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    Howie WIZARD!! 🙂

  181. 181 wee2424 said at 9:03 AM on November 4th, 2017:

    Lol, my bad.