Next QB Up

Posted: December 12th, 2017 | Author: | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 369 Comments »

The news is official. Carson Wentz has a torn…I don’t even want to say it. The three letters we all dread when reading about Eagles players.

Wentz is done for the year and Nick Foles is now your QB. This is the news everyone feared. Losing your starting QB is never good, but having that happen in mid-December seems awfully cruel. It also hurts because Wentz is such a special player. This isn’t a guy you’re going to replace very easily.

But…the season is not over.

Many people are all gloom and doom right now. Wentz is gone and that’s it. This team can’t win without him, right? I understand the mentality, but that’s only true if you’re an outsider. No one is happy about this, but the players and coaches are looking at this as a challenge, not the end. The season isn’t over.

At a time like this, you look to the great philosophers to offer some words of wisdom.

“What? Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!”

Bluto got the boys from Delta House pretty fired up with that and they ended up doing alright.

Let’s talk about Foles and the rest of the season. This is a tricky subject because subtlety is important. Carson Wentz is a franchise QB. He is someone you build your team around. He makes the guys around him better. Foles is a good backup QB. He can be an effective starter under the right circumstances, but Foles needs the guys around him to make him better.

People love to point out the 2013 season, when Foles threw 27 TDs and only had two interceptions. He posted some of the best numbers in NFL history. While Foles posted amazing numbers, he wasn’t doing amazing things. Go watch some highlights.

You will see some impressive throws. You’ll also see some players running wide open. You’ll see players catching a pass and running for a TD. You’ll see DBs falling down. You’ll see WRs winning jump balls.

There aren’t any special throws on that video. When you watch Wentz, he makes some special throws. He is a truly gifted QB. Foles just isn’t on that level.

At the same time, Foles has some critics that are unfairly harsh. He was 14-4 as the starter under Chip Kelly. He threw 37 TDs and 12 INTs in those starts. In those two years, he was 73-289-3 on the ground. That’s more impressive than I remembered.

Go back to the video. While you don’t see bullets into tight spaces, there is plenty of good QB play. You see an accurate passer. Foles is able to keep plays alive with his feet. He’s not going to make highlight runs, but he can move around in the pocket. He made good decisions. He put good touch on his passes.

Foles is a good leader and is loved by his teammates and coaches. This is a guy who can win you some games.

Can he win big games?

That becomes the key question. There are only three regular season games left. If the Eagles needed Foles for most of a season, that would be tougher. You would need him to play at a high level for an extended amount of time. The Eagles need him to finish the regular season and to start one, two or three playoff games. These will be the biggest games of Foles career.

Foles did play in a winner-take-all game with Dallas in the 2013 season finale. He then played against the Saints in the playoffs. He has experienced pressure. Foles led the Eagles to a win in Dallas, but the team lost to the Saints.

This is different. This is a much better team and there is more on the line. This team still has Super Bowl hopes. We’ll have to see how Foles handles this kind of pressure.

I do think Foles can have some postseason success. The playoffs are about the best teams, not the best QBs. Aaron Rodgers lost some games he shouldn’t. Peyton Manning lost some games he shouldn’t. The rest of the team will have to help out in a big way. Foles needs help. The O-line has to stay healthy and play well. The run game must be productive. The defense has to be better than the past two weeks. Dave Fipp’s STs unit need to start making plays and stop giving them up.

The Eagles will win or lose in the postseason based on the way the team plays. Foles has to do his part, but we’re going to find just how good this team is.

_


  • daveH

    Trey Burton might be the most athletic dude on the team .. all those tosses to Riley Cooper..we gotta at least have a shot ..2 games to get get Folesy Rollin again

    • anon

      Trey Burton is sleeper monster. Love to see him and ertz in 2 te sets.

      • SteveH

        Burton is one of those guys who has delivered when called upon his whole career, yet never seems to be able to carve out a bigger role for himself. Him and Ertz in 2 TE sets seems like it would be a nightmare for defensive coordinators.

        • CrackSammich

          It is and it isn’t. Ertz is a willing blocker, but still not great at it. Same with Burton, but he’s smaller. I wouldn’t hinge your play on his ability to hold off a LB. It limits your options, since they know it will be a pass. You’re not going to get the great mismatches you want if they know you’re not going to run the ball.

          • SteveH

            I say run it and catch them off guard then. Let them run the dime package onto the field and pound the rock man.

          • CrackSammich

            If they are working that in, I hope they save it for the playoffs and catch someone off guard.

        • EagleOne1983

          Burton is earning himself a nice fat pay raise this offseason. Some team is going to drop a big sack of money in his lap because of his ability to get open and make catches.

          • Buge Halls

            Depends, the Eagles will need another TE after Celek is done after the season (I can’t believe they keep him just to block any longer). Celek is due $5 mil next year with $1 mil dead cap – so they can roll that right into Burton (and add a few years to it to stretch out the cap burden).

          • EagleOne1983

            I think Burton is working on a resume that will get him $7-9 million a year. I don’t think the Eagles have the cap space for it. I hope they can keep him, but I can see him leaving for a shot at starting. He’s a guy I see New England going after.

  • Daniel Lee

    Which team is better offensively that 2013-2014 team or now? Our d is way better now and if memory serves foles walked off that field winning vs the saints.

    • anon

      Much prefer a team where we aren’t relying on Riley Cooper to win a playoff game.

      • Guy Media

        Yup, either vs. the Saints OR the Pack.

      • Daniel Lee

        that drop still bothers me

  • CrackSammich

    As stupid is it is to type this… Wentz might be more risk adverse than Foles is on long balls and 50/50 passes. If Foles just starts throwing it up to Jeffrey and the TEs, he might be able to Eli his way to some success.

    Another stupid thing to type: I hope they dial up a fair amount of screens. Foles is a statue by comparison and is going to get demolished if the pass rush heats up around him. Back in the day, that led to him backpedaling 10 yards and throwing off the back foot.

    And I don’t know if it was Chip not calling them or Foles not being able to throw them, but one of our mainstays this year is the slant pass, and Foles never did have much success with them. I hope he’s gotten better.

    • SteveH

      Foles never did have much a problem just heaving it did he, even with his generously mediocre arm strength.

    • Ankerstjernen

      Let me put a negadelphian spin on this. Foles playstyle is different in this respect because unlike Wentz he has never had that elite arm strengt that allows him to force the ball into tight windows on long and intermediate passes. In stead he throws it earlier, as the ball needs a little more time to get there. He actually does this quite well, especially on touch passes where he releases the ball well before the receivers breaks free. His focus on getting the ball away faster might make life a little more easy on the left side of our O-line and Vaitai. But it creates more situations where the DB has a chance to break on the ball if he can outleverage the receiver. This is why Jeffery is going to be so important the rest of the way. He is going to be Foles favourite target much more than he was Wentz’s. I am guessing they will be force feeding him and we will find out how far that goes.

      • xeynon

        I don’t think that’s Negadelphian, just realistic. If Foles is going to be effective throwing the deep ball he’ll need his receivers to make plays for him.

        • nybri

          Mack Hollins is a big step up from Riley Cooper.

  • SteveH

    Big pole Foles. Big Dick Nick. Nine inch Nick. Big Dick Saint Nick. Foot Long Foles.

    The real reason I believe in our continued success is the phallic continuity we have on this team. Long Cox Smallwood Johnson, who better to lead them all but Big Dick Nick? They’ll be like Voltron, only now will we experience this teams true power.

  • Philadelphian

    Tommy, please tell me you were only joking when you said it was the Germans that bombed Pearl Harbor?

    • Masked Man

      Hey Philly!

      That’s a classic comedy line by a character called Bluto Blutarski, the famous frat boy party animal played by John Belushi in the movie “Animal House.”

      So he’s only partly joking when he says that! Lol!

      • Philadelphian

        That was one of my favorite movies, but I don’t remember that line. I guess my wife is right when she says my memory sucks.

        • Masked Man

          Bluto didn’t know much about history. But his speech rallied the frat to save the frat house and whatever else!

          Classically stupid! The Dean told him “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son…”

          • Buge Halls

            He actually said that to Flounder!

          • P_P_K

            But, as the movie portrayed, it’s sufficient to get one elected to Congress.

        • sonofdman

          At least your memory was good enough that you remembered that it wasn’t actually the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor. 🙂

          • Philadelphian

            Believe me, there are some people that don’t even know that.

    • animal house…sorry, responded before I saw that MM explained

    • John Dunkerley

      You’ve never heard of Animal House?

      • Philadelphian

        Read below.

  • Philadelphian

    It is imperative that the Eagles get much better play from the left side of the line in order to give Foles a chance.

    • Guy Media

      Wiz playing helps that.

  • SteveH

    So here’s a whale of a story. Hold onto your horses Mcnabb enthusiasts.

    https://deadspin.com/nfl-network-suspends-marshall-faulk-ike-taylor-heath-1821206708

    Marshall Faulk, Ike Taylor, Heath Evans, Warren Sapp and our very own Donovan Mcnabb along with some executive I’ve never heard of but evidently is President of The Ringer right now are named in a sexual harassment suit.

    Donnie’s part in it is apparently sending sexually explicit text messages, Faulk evidently is a groper, and Taylor would appear to be the most dead in the water of the group having sent the employee a video of him jacking it.

    Some of the texts Mcnabb evidently sent her are: “asking Plaintiff if she was a “squirter,” telling Plaintiff she “looked like the kind of girl that squirted when getting fucked,” “CUM to dinner with me,” and “why don’t you CUM over after work.”

    • Sean E

      gross

      • SteveH

        What, you don’t casually text your co-workers asking them if they’re squirters? I feel like I know way more than I want to about Mcnabb’s sexual preferences right now.

        • CrackSammich

          I guess I’m just not the alpha male stud that some of you are, but I can’t imagine texting that to anyone, ever.

          • Ryan Rambo

            Lol that’s just an Alpha Dumbass. Nothing more.

    • Guy Media

      I’ve always said everybody associated with Pittsburgh is a jerkoff; Ike Taylor just confirmed it.

    • xeynon

      I’m not surprised… jocks are often entitled assholes who aren’t nice to women. If that was true of the low grade jocks you knew in HS, imagine how true it must be of these guys who have money and stardom. Some of them seem like nice stand-up guys, and I’m sure a lot of them are, but I’m rarely/never surprised when they turn out not to be.

      My guess is we’re only going to see more of this as this whole #MeToo movement continues to unfold.

    • A_T_G

      What an ass. You’d think he would have realized he was headed down the wrong path when he was calling her Plaintiff in his texts.

      • RobNE

        Love a good law joke

      • Alan Green

        Now that is the funniest line yet concerning this story. I am still laughing. Calling her “Plaintiff”, that is rich!!!!

  • Greg Tulino

    Well, the Dolphins with Jay Cutler just beat the Patriots. So anything can happen in this league. If we win 2 of 3 remaining games we get home field advantage. With Wentz we could win games by 2 td’s. Under Foles we will likely have to get used to winning tight games with good defense, solid running game and winning the turnover battle.

    Winning with style points and blowing teams out is cool and all, but in the playoffs I could care less if we win 13-10. Even with Foles we will have a legit chance to win any game we play at home. We might as well all rally around this team and see if we can make some noise in the playoffs. Personally I like being the underdog and can only hope other teams will take us lightly.

    I am still stoked that we will get to see the Eagles play in the second round of the playoffs this year. That is something few people thought was realistic before the season after going 7-9 last year. Lets enjoy every bonus Eagles game we can. This season is far from over.

    • Someguy77

      Brady and the Patriots have struggled down in Miami over the years with no rhyme or reason.

      Just came out completely flat off a short week and Brady looked like the short week really hurt his ability to properly rest. Looked like a 40-year old QB last night with some underpowered throws.

  • T_S_O_P

    The O-line needs to stay healthy…. No Chance

    • Masked Man

      Hoping Wiz is healthy and ready to go.

    • P_P_K

      Clever.

  • CrackSammich

    We’ve now lost our best LB, our best OL, our best RB and best returner, our best STer, our kicker, and been without the best CB and TE for portions of the season, and now the QB. The original captain of all three units is now out for the season. Ugh.

    Maybe we really are the team of destiny. Maybe we can overcome one more? Ugghhh.

    • meteorologist

      “The original captain of all three units is now out for the season”

      Sheeeesh

  • Guy Media

    Looking the the Giants and Raiders leaves us in a very good spot to lock down home field. Then you get a week to test out a lot of depth vs. Dallas, a week off, and then a chance to prep up extra well vs. whatever evil doers come in here for the divisional round. I’d like us vs. anybody but Seattle in that game. Same goes for the next week as well.

    IF the D decides to rise up and play like it should.

    • Rob Jarratt

      Lost in the scenario options is that the Dallas game would be sweet revenge for last year’s humiliation of playing the Boys’ scrubs in the last game and “winning.” Turnaround is fair play. But, note to self: don’t get ahead of the game at hand. With the Carolina game on Fox here in Maine, I will turn to Merrill & Co for my audio feed.

      • Buge Halls

        watch it on firstrowsports (google it)

        • Rob Jarratt

          Many thanks, BH. I will do just that.

          • Buge Halls

            just don’t install anything they tell you to! I suggest Firefox or Chrome with an ad-blocker installed

    • Stephen E.

      With all these injuries, we’re already testing our depth every week.

  • Westpaceagle

    You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.

    The only silver lining is that the magic of this year can never really be tarnished by a defeat in the playoffs. At least we can always say ‘if only…’

    11-2! Good job guys! Go Foles! You are playing with house money. Go Birds!

    • A_T_G

      I had this thought, albeit less poetically, this morning. We can take heart in knowing in a few years we can fondly remember how we were unquestionable headed to our first ring before that fateful day.

      • Jernst

        That is not comforting

      • xeynon

        *Eyeroll*

        Sorry, but this kind of thinking annoys the hell out of me.

        There’s no such thing as a curse. There’s just random variation. If we were a contender this year with Wentz, we’ll be a contender next year with him, and the year after. He’s good.

      • sonofdman

        The imaginary Lombardi trophy we definitely would have won this year if Carson didn’t get hurt will look great in the imaginary trophy case next to the imaginary Lombardi trophy we definitely would have won in 1991 if Randall didn’t get hurt.

        • xeynon

          They’re both going to be outshined by the real Lombardi we’re going to win with Foles. 😉

        • P_P_K

          They would both pale before the fancy watch I was going to buy with my winnings from the 2004 SB.

        • A_T_G

          Interesting, I would put them chronologically, so the imaginary Lombardi from 2004 had the Pats not cheated would be between them.

          • sonofdman

            I thought of mentioning that one, as well as the imaginary Lombardi from 2003 if Westbrook and Carlos Emmons hadn’t gotten hurt and McNabb hadn’t got injured on a cheap shot in the Carolina game.

    • DustyRyder71

      This generation’s 1991.

      Mark Barron is this generation’s Bryce Paup.

  • eagleyankfan

    AND the Yankees officially signed Stanton! Is there no end to all the bad news? Wait – that’s good news :).

    • xeynon

      It’s going to be more fun to laugh when the Yankees choke in the playoffs now. Last season’s team just want any fun to hate.

    • Rob Jarratt

      Living in Maine and being anti-Boston in all sports, it gives me shivers of delight listening to sports talk radio with hosts and commenters alike wringing their hands in despair. While I despise NY teams, I abhor Boston teams. Let the bloodbath begin!

      • xeynon

        Sorry, but no. Along with the Cowboys and Lakers, the Yankees form the unholy trinity of American sports, which all decent people who do not hail from their respective cities should be required to hate as a prerequisite for citizenship, or even full recognition as human beings.

        Cheering for the Yankees to get Stanton is like cheering for the rich brat in your town to have his parents buy him another Escalade, or cheering for Walmart to put your local mom-and-pop grocery whose proprietors you’ve known for 40 years out of business. It is known.

        • sonofdman

          This is the correct take.

  • xeynon

    Foles isn’t nearly as talented as Wentz is, but he doesn’t have to be to win. The team is going to have to adjust its strategy and try to win games 20-17 instead of 45-17, and as fans we’re going to have to get used to very narrow margins for error and a lot of chewed fingernails, but they have the right personnel to pull this off if they don’t suffer any more injuries. The ingredients are:

    1.)heavier and more creative use of the run game (Ajayi, Blount, and Clement should be combing for 35+ carries if they’re going to win);

    2.)play action to set up some favorable throwing opportunities in the mid-range and deep passing game;

    3.)the occasional aggressive throw to keep defenses on their toes;

    4.)turnover-free football – we no longer have a guy who can bail us out from stuff like the Agholor bumble-interception or fumbles on the goal line.

    5.)a next level, dominant performance from the defense – pressure pressure pressure, suffocating run defense, and taking advantage of turnover opportunities when they’re there.

    If we get all of this, we could duplicate the approach used by the Hostetler or Eli Giants, or the Brad Johnson Bucs. It will be a challenge, and I don’t expect them to win the SB – I’ll be content if they get the first round bye and win a playoff game. But I don’t think it’s impossible.

    • GreenBleedin

      I’m partially with you on this one.

      Losing Carson sucks, I get it. Affecting not only this super bowl run but also 2018 season, I get that too. I share that feeling in the pit of my stomach that all Eagles fans feel.

      Alright, Eagles fans let’s get a grip.
      1. Nick Foles is the best backup QB in the league. He is better than several starting QB’s.
      2. You don’t go 29 and 2 in a season without sufficient talent to win football games
      3. All he does is win (ala all he does is catch touchdowns). He was 8 and 2 in 2013. Even in the 2014 season when he regressed, he was still 6 and 2.
      4. Jeff Fisher would ruin Aaron Rogers. That year in St Louis was a disaster and Foles obviously regressed further. But when he went to KC, and got some real coaching, he filled in twice for Alex Smith and won games with QBR’s over 100.
      5. He outplayed Brees in that 2013 season playoff game. He left the field winning when Chip Kelly’s defense was gassed and couldn’t hold the lead.
      6. Don’t compare him to Carson, he’s not in that class. But do compare him to Super Bowl winning QB’s, like Eli who inexplicably won two because he was carried by the defense. In fact compare Eli’s stats to Nick’s and Nick blows him away.

      Eagles fans, this team can still do this. Foles has a bad rap from many of the talk show hosts and writers in this town, but I’m confident he has enough talent and experience to adequately handle the offense. He will surprise many of you. That pass to Agholor Sunday is just a preview. He had many moments like that when he was here previously and before being ruined by Chip Kelly (bruising his confidence by trading him and telling him he’s not in the class of a bust of a first round pick), and then by Jeff Fisher who must have pictures on the owners to keep a job so long.

      Just keep an open mind and watch as Nick progresses over the next weeks. I always thought he was the real deal, not in Carson’s class, but more than good enough to win a Super Bowl. I even have two large bets that he will win a Super Bowl in his career that I made in 2013. I may have been prescient.

  • Forthebirds

    If we manage to get to the Superbowl and we win, does Nick Foles become our starting QB next after he achieves legendary status? (Just kidding) But wouldn’t it be an amazing turn in his career if he did. And he would become a legend.

    • RobNE

      No

    • A_T_G

      He would become a top 100 draft pick in 2019 is what he would become, right Howie?

      • Buge Halls

        Along with a couple others thrown in. I wouldn’t hold my breath for a #1, but a mid/high #2 and a #3 (two 2’s?) – who knows.

    • Buge Halls

      He becomes huge trade bait is what he becomes is he wins it all. Look what we got from a desperate Vikings team for Same Freaking Bradford! Imagine what Superbowl winner St. Nick Foles would bring in!

    • Guy Media

      Foles Super Bowl win = Howie gets the Jets #1 pick plus a player for Foles.

  • AsianEagle

    I’ve been reading Tom’s site & the great comments for years. So where’s that guy who posted constantly before? N some cry babies were always asking Tom to ban him lol. I haven’t seen him since last season or maybe it was 2 seasons ago. I think his name was GEeagle or something like that. He called Nick Foles The Rainmaker during Chip Kelly’s first season lol 🙂 So what if Nick just lights up the Giants next week? All the talking heads ( I guess not Marshall Faulk or Heath Evans 😉 r gonna jump back on the Eagles train. I feel like Nick gets no respect. He’s the Rodney Dangerfeld of backups. I certainly hope it motivates him. His new nickname – the Texan Gunslinger!

    • sonofdman

      If Nick Foles plays one good game, the new narrative in the national media will be “Maybe Carson Wentz isn’t really that good.”

  • A_T_G

    The Animal House quote reminded me of when a fresh new commenter took offense to someone blaming the bombing of Pearl Harbor on his homeland

    • ChoTime

      Ge?

  • RobNE

    I will say may optimism is higher than if we had Chase Daniel

  • Corry

    Whole team needs to step up starting with Pederson. You can’t have Foles throwing the ball 50 times a game and the defense needs to not play like they did in LA.

    Also let’s all hope Pederson is more like early Andy Reid and not like Mike McCarthy when their star QB gets injured.

    • kajomo

      I have more faith in Doug than that. We all know He’s going to force feed Blount the ball in the first half of games while Ajayi warms the bench.

  • Crus57

    One good thing is we have seen the team develop and improve this season, so there’s no reason Foles can’t follow that trend too.

    On another topic, did anyone else notice that the “game winning” 3rd down conversion to Agholor was on almost the exact same route and throw as the INT at the start of the game? Of course it was a different DB covering him by then (and a different QB throwing) but Ags made better space and a confident grab. Great to see them call that after the problem in the first quarter, great to see it so well executed by all involved.

    • meteorologist

      True. If aghs can make a jump, so can Foles

  • xeynon

    If you need to feel a bit better about Foles, review his 2013-2014 highlights:

    https://youtu.be/GTPhTV_HHpw

    He’s not Carson, but that is a competent NFL quarterback. He does benefit from having some wide open receivers at times, but he hits them in stride, and his deep ball accuracy might actually better than Carson’s (granted that’s not one of Wentz’s strengths). He also drops a few absolute dimes into tight windows.

    This is a highlights package and obviously doesn’t show the misfires or throws into coverage that we all know Foles is also capable of, but it should remind us that the guy is not a stiff. You can field a respectable NFL offense with him.

    • Jernst

      With Foles it all depends on whether he’s scared in the pocket or not. When he stands in the pocket and moves forward to avoid the rush he’s a good QB. When he backpedals and heaves it off his back foot he’s atrocious.

      • xeynon

        No doubt. We’re going to need our O line to step up.

    • kajomo

      I have consistently said that I don’t trust the Vikings because I don’t buy Keenum as a big time playoff QB. That same principle goes for Foles. HFA is the only glimmer of hope we have.

      Who knows, maybe two formerly bad starting Rams QBs who had to replace 2 formerly starting Eagles QBs will compete in the NFCCG to a chance to lose in the SB.

      • xeynon

        Judging Foles and Keenum by their performance with the Jeff Fisher-coached Rams does both a disservice. That staff clearly had no idea how to coach quarterbacks effectively, as evidenced by Goff going from being talked about as a Ryan Leaf-esque bust in his first season to a top 10 QB in his second.

        Pederson, Reich, and DiFilippo know how to coach quarterbacks. We are likelier to see the good version of Foles than the bad. You have to count he and Keenum as relative weaknesses when assessing their respective teams’ chances of making the Super Bowl, but to say neither team has a shot is ridiculous. The Super Bowl has been won on numerous occasions by teams playing QBs comparable to or worse than these guys.

        • kajomo

          Dude, your optimism is nice, but you continually ignore context.

          1) I am not saying either guys winning a SB is impossible. It’s just unlikely.

          2) Guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won with elite defensive ply carrying their asses to a SB. The Vikings defense may be able to do that for Case, but this eagles D is not good enough

          3) how anyone could argue that they expect Foles to play like a championship QB is beyond me. I like Foles. Nice guy, hard worker. He is physically limited. Good defenses and coaches are going to expose all his weaknesses in the post season.

          • xeynon

            1)It’s unlikely any QB is going to win a SB in any given year, even an elite one like Brady or Rodgers. Yes it’s less likely with a journeyman like Foles or Keenum, but it’s hardly impossible.

            2)The Eagles’ defense is better than the Vikings by DVOA:

            http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

            By conventional stats, they are giving up a whopping 1.1 YPG and 1.1 PPG more than the Vikings are. They have more sacks, more interceptions, more forced fumbles, and more defensive TDs than the Vikings do.

            http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

            If the Vikings’ defense is good enough to carry them to a Super Bowl, so is the Eagles’.

            3)I don’t expect him to play at an MVP level like Carson did. But you don’t have to play like an MVP to win a championship. Pedestrian QBs like Jeff Hostetler, Jim Plunkett, Doug Williams, and the aforementioned Johnson and Dilfer won championships. Eli Manning won two championships while being pretty average in both Super Bowl games. Ben Roethlisberger won a championship in his second year in the league going 9/22 for 122 yards and a 22.6 QB rating in the Super Bowl. Peyton Manning won the Super Bowl two years ago in a post season in which he was nothing less than godawful.

            Obviously it’s better to have a great QB than an average one, but this argument you’re making that it’s impossible to win in the postseason with average QB play is just straight up wrong.

          • Insomniac

            “Dude, your optimism is nice, but you continually ignore context.”

            Ain’t that the truth.

          • xeynon

            This dude is consistently disregarding the fact that the actual historical and statistical evidence contradicts his argument, and I’m the one who’s ignoring context?

            Okay, then.

          • Buge Halls

            “but this eagles D is not good enough” Really? Have you watched them this season? #1 rated run defense and top 10 (if not top 5) in almost every other stat. You might want to reevaluated you opinion!

    • Buge Halls

      Having a QB hit receivers in stride was something new to the Eagles back then. It was so nice after a decade plus of having receivers come to a complete stop so McFlabb could hit them!

    • bsuperfi

      This seems completely right to me. The formula seems much the same as when Eli won 2 SBs against the Pats. That front four for the Giants was light out, and we were reminded what happens even to Brady when he faces consistent pressure in his face. Eli made some big plays when it counted, and he got lucky on some other plays (he seems to have had luck streaks that even rivaled Favre when the gods smiled upon him).

      Like Tommy said, everyone else needs to step up. Foles has played a lot of games in the NFL and has won a bunch of them. He has his warts, but the dude is a decent player. He’s not transcendent like Wentz, but it’s not like there isn’t evidence that he can lead a winning team.

    • ChoTime

      Foles is not without talent. You can’t do that without some ability.

      That Raiders game should probably get an asterisk, though. Those guys were clueless.

      • xeynon

        Totally agree. The Raiders game was a crazy outlier even within a crazy outlier season.

        But I think Foles’ career numbers (2.07:1 TD/interception ratio, 60.5% completion percentage, 88.1 QB rating) are pretty representative of who he is, which is to say a lower tier starter or very good backup. Teams have won SBs with worse, as recently as two years ago with Peyton Manning ca. 2015.

      • sonofdman

        That being said, we play the Raiders again on Christmas and their defense is not that good. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect another 7 TD game from Foles (8 if Pederson wants to leave him in the go for the record).

        • ChoTime

          haha 🙂 (?)

          • sonofdman

            🙂

  • Jernst

    Losing Wentz was devastating, but (and this is not a shot at Tommy who I think wrote a very fair article above) the constant string of articles reminding us that the season isn’t over and we still have a chance to win the Super Bowl this year are just downright annoying.

    With Wentz I’d say we were the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl. With Foles we immediately become longshot under dogs. There’s no sugar coating that. That is a huge drop in expected outcomes. We all know there’s still technically a chance. We’re all going to continue rooting like crazy. But, some of these articles out there are starting to sound like Jim Carey in Dumb and Dumber…”So you’re telling me there’s a chance?”

    The most likely scenario is now that we lose at some point in the playoffs, and likely work through Wentz’s rehab next year. Two days ago the most likely outcome was we’d be Super Bowl favorites this year and next. I wish people would stop trying to tell us how it’s all ok and we still have a chance and just acknowledge that that is some shitty shitty luck.

    • xeynon

      With Wentz I’d say we were the odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl. With Foles we immediately become longshot under dogs.

      There’s no such thing as “odds-on favorites to win the Super Bowl”. Even the best team in the league has maybe a 25% chance of winning it all vis-a-vis the field, and the Eagles weren’t even the most heavily favored team before Wentz got hurt. I saw one model that dropped their odds from 18% to 14% as a result of the injury. That’s significant, but it’s not going from “odds on favorites” to “long shot underdogs”.

      I wish people would stop trying to tell us how it’s all ok and we still have a chance and just acknowledge that that is some shitty shitty luck.

      There’s plenty of that out there. What I’m sick of is all the moping, complaining, and pity party throwing.

      Wentz is gone for the year. Being miserable about that won’t change it. The team has to move forward trying to win with Foles, and as fans the only thing we can do is enjoy the rest of the season for what it is and hope for the best. Honestly, if you’re not willing to believe there’s any chance they can overcome this I don’t even see what the point of being a fan is. The truth of sports is that your team ends up losing in almost every year. The chances of that are now somewhat higher than they were, but they were never high to begin with.

      • kajomo

        I think most are just being realistic more than pouting. Saying we had a good shot of going to the SB with HFA before the injury and now those odds have drop significantly is reality. Knowing Wentz will be out a good portion of next season is reality. Acting like it will all be ok is blind optimism. It’s not ok. Seasons like this don’t come around very often and this injury has likely squandered a great opportunity. No pouting, just facts.

        • xeynon

          This site hasn’t been as bad as BGN, I should have specified that.

          Knowing Wentz will be out a good portion of next season is reality.

          Not really. Carson Palmer tore his ACL in the playoffs in January 2006 and returned for the preseason later that year. Joe Flacco tore his ACL in November 2015 and returned to start 16 games the next season. McNabb tore his ACL in November 2006 and was back for the next preseason. Palmer tore his ACL again in November 2014 and not only returned to play 16 games the next year but had a career season.

          http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/nfl-quarterbacks-acl-injuries-teddy-bridgewater-joe-flacco

          Assuming Wentz will be out “a good portion of next season” is not reality, it’s ridiculous, irrational pessimism. Nothing in the track record of QBs suffering this specific injury (uncomplicated ACL tear) suggests that that will be the case.

          • sonofdman

            You beat me by a few seconds on this one.

          • kajomo

            See above. The time table is 9-12 months. It is optimism that he will be ready in 9, in football shape, and ready to play in a game. Add in DP’s track record of being cautious with injuries and it’s reality to believe he will likely miss 4-12 weeks of next season.

          • xeynon

            The time table is 9-12 months.

            Doctors always give conservative estimates because they don’t want to promise a guy will be back earlier than he might. The track record of QBs suffering this specific injury – which I linked to in my post above – is that many of them return much sooner than 9 months.

            it’s reality to believe he will likely miss 4-12 weeks of next season.

            No, it’s not reality, it’s unwarranted pessimism. Stop it. You’re being ridiculous.

          • kajomo

            so Expecting him to return at the earliest possible time is realistic, but expecting him to fall somewhere in the middle of the time frame is pessimism? I would say you are being ridiculous, but I rarely agree with anything you post anyway. If it helps you cope continue looking at it through roses colored glasses. I guess we’ll see who is right (I am btw)

          • xeynon

            Expecting him to return at the earliest possible time is realistic, but expecting him to fall somewhere in the middle of the time frame is pessimism?

            If I had to bet it’s likely he returns sometime around the start of the regular season next year. Optimism would be returning for the start of training camp which is possible but not something I’d bet on. Predicting he’s going to miss half the season or more is pessimism, and since there’s no precedent I can think of for a QB with this type of injury suffered at this point in the year missing that much time, it’s irrational, silly pessimism.

            I rarely agree with anything you post anyway.

            You’re the one who chooses to be irrationally negative rather than realistic about the world.

            If it helps you cope continue looking at it through roses colored glasses.

            I’m not looking at it through rose colored glasses. I’m looking at actual evidence and track records of similar players in similar situations and guessing on the basis of that evidence what will happen with Wentz. That’s what rational people do. You’re the one pulling stuff out of your rear end to justify an emotionally derived expectation.

            I guess we’ll see who is right (I am btw)

            If it were worth my time to prove people on the internet wrong, I’d screenshot this post and rub it in your face when it’s November 2018 and Wentz has not missed half the season. But it’s not.

          • Buge Halls

            You’re saying 4 -12 (12!!!) weeks is the “middle of the time frame”? That is ridiculous!

          • Jernst

            I agree 12 weeks would shock me. 2-4 would not. And really 2-4 wouldn’t ruin a season. The bigger issue is the fear that he comes back like 2007 McNabb and looks like a rusty shell of his former self for the majority of the year. Although, given Wentz’s age and mindset I’m pretty optimistic that he returns fully (although he might be a little less athletic while still recovering in the early going next year)

          • xeynon

            2007 McNabb was not as bad as you remember him. He was statistically in line with his performance in every prior year of his career, except for 2004.

          • kajomo

            Please explain how.

            9 months has him finally able to return to full practice a week into the season. So if everything goes perfectly and he comes back in 9 months he already misses time. Add in conditioning and practice time and that adds probably another 2 weeks. So maybe 3 weeks at a minimum.

            Again I think they play the long game here with a Wentz. They will not rush him back for short term gain. They will make sure he is completely and unquestionably healthy and at no risk of re-injury before putting him out there. This leads me to believe it is significantly more probable that the time fram is extended.

            Again all assuming he meets the earliest part of that window

          • sonofdman

            From an interview with Mike Collins, P.T., ATC, MBA, Vice President and National Director of Sports Medicine, NovaCare Rehabilitation:

            “I would say (a return in time for training camp) is a possibility,” said Collins. “There are a lot of factors involved, and we have loose parameters based on the injury, and then there is how the individual responds. I’ve treated lots of people who responded more quickly than others. A few years back, there was more of an accelerated rehab type of approach in getting people back very quickly, and there are stories here and there of people who got back in a very short time frame.

            “I would tell you that six-to-nine months is not out of the question, so that would put him right in that wheelhouse for training camp. With that said, an isolated ACL is one thing. If there are other injuries involved, it makes for a slightly more difficult rehab.”

            On Monday, Doug Pederson noted that his understanding was that there were no other associated knee injuries other than the ACL

            http://www.phillyvoice.com/experts-opinion-carson-wentzs-likelihood-starting-2018-season-time-and-returning-100-percent/

            I will trust the estimate from the doctor who specializes in this field, at least until we have more information.

            Edited to add: This shows that if everything goes perfectly, Wentz could be back earlier than 9 months.

          • kajomo

            He said “possibility” and “could”.

            He never said “will”, “should”, “probably”, “likely” or anything else to suggest that it is the likely outcome.

            I’m not saying it’s impossible. We all know Wentz will do everything in his power to get back ASAP. I just believe that organizationally they will be very prudent with a Wentz. He means too much to this organization to risk rushing him back. They will make sure, without any doubt, he is ready to return before they allow him to even practice.

          • sonofdman

            Your “reality” doesn’t seem to be shared by a doctor that specializes in the field:

            http://www.phillyvoice.com/experts-opinion-carson-wentzs-likelihood-starting-2018-season-time-and-returning-100-percent/

        • sonofdman

          “Knowing Wentz will be out a good portion of next season is reality.”

          That’s not reality, that’s pessimism. 9 months is a realistic timeline for a professional athlete coming back from an ACL injury. Some have come back quicker, some have taken longer. There is a possibility that Wentz will not be ready for the beginning of the season next year, but I have not read anywhere that this is “known” at this point.

          • kajomo

            If anything DP has shown to be ultra cautious with injuries. He kept Ertz out twice (hamstring and concussion) when he was healthy enough to play. He kept Kendricks our for a similar reason. They added 4 weeks to Darby’s original time table. They have brought Sidney Jones along very slowly. He does not tush people back.

            All of this evidence leads me to believe they will not rush back their superstar franchise QB. Even at 10 months Carson will have missed a 1/4 of the season. I’d call that a good portion.

          • sonofdman

            It is certainly a possibility, but it is not “known” whether he will miss any of next season at this point. I doubt even the doctors know his rehab schedule yet.

          • Buge Halls

            I love back-peddling

          • kajomo

            How it that back peddling? I clarified my logic.

            I am not saying it is impossible for Wentz to come back in 9 months. I believe the organization with draw it out to make sure he is healthy. I don’t care about what other QBs on other teams have done as much as I care about how this current eagle’s regime has handled injuries. They are overly cautious. Players have not suffered repeat injuries as a result. No reason to think they become less cautious with their most valueable commodity.

          • Buge Halls

            You went from being certain that he would miss up to 12 months to this, so yeah, backpeddling!

          • Jernst

            Hell even 9 months puts him at starting to practice between weeks 1 and 2. Might not be known, but it’s reasonable to expect he misses time/isn’t quite right for a significant portion of next year

          • kajomo

            Be careful. People will start telling you that you’re ridiculous with logic like that

          • bsuperfi

            Trust the process

        • Buge Halls

          “Knowing Wentz will be out a good portion of next season is reality.”

          If he were a RB or WR, yes, but he’s a QB, so he should definitely be ready by next September, if not August.

          • Jernst

            Ready ready or Donovan McNabb in 2007 ready?

          • Buge Halls

            But D-Mac was more of a runner than Wentz ever was (or will be) – even in 2007 with the gut! Huge difference.

          • Jernst

            After 2004 McNabb basically stopped running to a fault. So I don’t agree with that. I expect it to take a full year for Wentz’s athleticism to fully return. I’m worried more about the injuries effect on his mechanics, passing, moving in the pocket that might effect his passing more than his running. That’s just a roll of the dice. Some players come back like nothing ever happened, some like McNabb look like shit with horrible mechanics all year, some players become scared and overly protective of bodies falling around their knees (Stew Bradley), some are simply never the same (Culpepper).

            I have a lot of confidence in Wentz that he’ll return fully to form. But, can’t help acknowledging the real possiblity that he’s hindered by this next year or god forbid for the rest of his career.

          • xeynon

            McNabb in 2007 had 19 passing TDs, 7 interceptions, 3300+ yards, and an 89.9 QB rating. The only year he had prior to this that was statistically superior was 2004, when he was throwing to TO. He was ready in 2007.

            https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00.htm

            Can anyone else here please cite some actual facts to back up their arguments?

          • kajomo

            I sincerely hope I am wrong and you are correct. I will happily acknowledge I was wrong with a smile on my face

        • Jernst

          Ah finally someone who gets it

      • EagleOne1983

        The difficulty just went up. Like switching from Pro to Madden. It’s not impossible, it’s just harder. The Eagles team will have to play more precise. The superhero can’t come in and save the day anymore, so the regular people have to fight now.

        • kajomo

          It’s like Optimus prime just went down and we are waiting for Shia Labeouf to save the day

        • Jernst

          We all know that. Still sucks.

      • Jernst

        Whatever…semantics. With Wentz I fully believed we had a better chance than any team this year. With Foles I put us below 7 or 8 other teams. Yes there’s a chance, yes anything can happen, yes Foles is capable and the team around him is damn good. We all know the season isn’t over, that Wentz’s injury just makes it more difficult and more unlikely. I’m still sick of reading all the patronizing articles and comments telling us all what we already know and framing it like that’s a good thing. We all know that stuff I listed above and it’s ok to acknowledge that that sucks.

        • xeynon

          I don’t see anyone failing to acknowledge that it sucks.

          Time to move on to the next thing, which is getting over it.

      • FairOaks

        I think with Wentz we would have been favored in any playoff game we played, other than possibly the Patriots.

        Without Wentz, we will be underdogs against several potential opponents. But we may not be *big* underdogs, and we definitely have a shot.

  • Bert’s Bells

    I’m good with FOles!

  • Buge Halls

    We need St. Nick to win two games (or just one and a Vikings loss) to get the bye and HFA, then he can take off until the 2nd week of the Playoffs – in Philly! You have to wonder if, even if they clinch the home field, they let Foles play in the “meaningless” games just to get some reps.

    • xeynon

      I’d bet against them letting Foles play in any meaningless game, as keeping him healthy is an absolute must. I think we’re still in the mix to win it all with competent professional QB play, which he can provide. But if we have to rely on Sudfeld or a street free agent our chances drop to near zero.

  • Frencheaglesfan

    Just a thought with some perspective. Last year Dallas were 13-3 with a great OL, great RB, OK QB, Good Passing O and OK D. They were really close from making it to the NFC Championship. If Ajayi steps up, I’d rather take Foles than Dak. And Wentz may be the most valuable player of the next decade, a playoff game is still played by more than 40 players in a same team that can affect it. It’s not a probability over a season, it’s a probability over a game. I will have the same anxiety of having to play a win or go home game and will have the same hope that we can achieve it. Like Napoleon used to say: “Impossible isn’t philadelphian”

  • Jamie Parker

    This just brings us down to the Vikings level.

    • xeynon

      Correct assessment.

  • P_P_K

    If Bluto believe in Nick, then so do I.

  • Westpaceagle

    Any narrative that we can still contend for the SB is just NFL media noise trying to fill the gaping vacuum left after its leading MVP candidate and young, marketable superstar in the making was suddenly ripped from this year’s storyline. We know what Foles is, and if you think he is going to be hoisting any hardware then more power to you, but understand that Eagles fans generate significant percentage of clicks and interest in the NFL product and savvy journalists know this. I don’t recommend buying in emotionally to the hype that will continue for as long as people are still writing ‘How the Eagles can still win it all’ type articles. Foles seems like a really good dude, but as an NFL QB compared to Wentz and other quality starters, he is a clown out there.

    • Frencheaglesfan

      Westspaceeagle….

      you da true Negadelphian MVP!

      • Westpaceagle

        Call it like I see it Frenchy. This whole ‘Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostetler did it’ narrative is laughable. I mean, Jeff Hostetler? Haha that’s freakin’ hilarious. But by all means don’t let me spoil the fun- sure Eagles can make it work with Foles. Just need to declare big V eligible every play and we will be unstoppable.

    • or____

      Jason Peters, Malcolm is Jenkins, Fletcher Cox, Brian Dawkins and company would appreciate the opportunity to punch you in the face or do a verbal equivalent.

      And you’re factually wrong.

      • Westpaceagle

        its a fact is it? I sure hope so. We will get a buy, and this thing will drag out through the buy week. We might even get an inspired Defensive and special team performance to get us a win in a Divisional round game, but its pretty delusional to think we win the NFC and SB is all but out of the question. Hope I’m wrong, but come on man

        • or____

          Human beings have been proven to be shitty at predicting nfl playoffs, and history has proven that being sure of something in the NFL several games ahead is foolish. Seriously, Brian Dawkins would agree with me that you sound idiotic. No disrespect. I just wish you weren’t sounding like a front running wuss.

          • Westpaceagle

            Watch the name calling I have been bleeding green for almost 40 years. Every damn year I have been a fan. So I have watched and played enough ball to have as educated an opinion as any other DB on an internet message board and if you want to believe the fairy tales of Jeff Hostedler and Trent Dilfer go right ahead. Its not like I am going to try to rub it in when they lose, but Nick Foles man. Honestly

          • xeynon

            Jeff Hostetler and Trent Dilfer aren’t “fairy tales” though. They are actual, factual examples of QBs who actually won Super Bowls who are worse than Nick Foles is.

            You’re acting like a team winning the SB with a QB of Foles’ level is unprecedented and would defy the laws of reality. It’s not. That doesn’t make it likely to happen, and I’m not *expecting* them to do it this year either. But completely ruling it out is dumb and irrational.

          • Westpaceagle

            Fair point, not saying anything is impossible. Keep in mind that all of those teams that won SBs with sub-par QBs had all time Defenses and did not lose an MVP QB late in the year. While quite good, our D is not at that level.
            As a fan I am much more comfortable when my fandom is supported by analytically and statistically defensible data, rather than shear faith that something good will miraculously happen. Likewise I am skeptical and somewhat irritated by such blind faith in others with the same rooting interest, even though we are hoping for the same thing. And apparently I irritate some people here in turn.
            I am sure there are many behavioral studies that could explain and predict all of these reactions and surely none of them is ‘wrong’. I just honestly think you (rhetorical you) are a fool if you instantly bounce back from losing Wentz with a list of all the things that need to happen to still win the SB. Like peace in the middle east- is it impossible? I guess not. Are you kind of a fool to believe you are going to see it happen? Kind of.

          • xeynon

            Keep in mind that all of those teams that won SBs with sub-par QBs had all time Defenses and did not lose an MVP QB late in the year.

            The 1990 Giants had a good but not all-time great defense (4th in the league by DVOA that year, lower than the Eagles’ this year), lost their Pro Bowl caliber QB late in the year, and won the Super Bowl.

            This circumstance (a top 2 seeded team in its conference losing a Pro Bowl caliber QB this late in the season) has literally only happened twice before in NFL history, so we’re talking about a non-existent sample size, and yet still one of those two teams won the Super Bowl (the other was the Raiders with Carr last season).

            As a fan I am much more comfortable when my fandom is supported by analytically and statistically defensible data, rather than shear faith that something good will miraculously happen.

            In that case you should recognize that this team still has a chance to win the SB this year, albeit a lower one than they did before Wentz got hurt. This is the issue – you think your pessimism is rational, but it’s not. The actual data does not support the claim that this team has no chance. The realistic take is the one that people who are invested in the outcome but not emotionally attached to the team have (e.g. Vegas oddsmakers) – the chances are lower without Wentz, but not zero, and not insignificant.

          • Westpaceagle

            Well here is to hoping the improbable happens then. I am not sure how many Rams or Chiefs games you guys saw with Foles, but suffice to say he was trending toward flat out awful. I sure hope Doug gets better from him this time around, but I will be on pins and needles for the next fumble or terrible int. That 3rd down to Aggie was great though; pass to big V not so much. Cheers good chat

          • xeynon

            Foles was awful with the Rams, but every QB who played for the Fisher-era Rams was awful.

            He was good with the Chiefs (105.9 QB rating).

            I don’t blame you for being on pins and needles – our margin for error is absolutely smaller now, there’s no question about that. But just dial back the negative hyperbole a bit, that’s all I’m saying.

          • Stephen E.

            I can judge from Westpaceagle’s comment that he never saw Foles play with the Chiefs.

          • Westpaceagle

            You got me there, I missed the one game where Foles apparently played so well the Chiefs decided to cut him loose anyway. More importantly I remember him declining dramatically after 27-2 and then almost playing himself out of the league with the Rams. Look, I get it. Not long ago I’ll admit that I thought we would keep rolling with Sanchez. Ha! Foles is now close to that level and I won’t fall for it again! Of course there will be voices saying we have a shot negative assholes like me don’t get paid to write articles. But seriously how are more of you not despondent? Will you let it set in after a playoff loss or just block the whole thing out? We went from ‘probably going to play for a SB win’ to ‘ probably get beat up at home in the playoffs’. Honestly I think there is a lot of bargaining and denial going on! I’m not mad at you, just bewildered. Go birds

          • FairOaks

            Remember Goff under Jeff Fisher. And see Goff under Not Jeff Fisher.

            And then remember that Foles with the Rams was under Jeff Fisher.

            Foles was 1-0 with a 105.9 QB rating with the Chiefs.

          • kajomo

            While I won’t agree that winning a SB is impossible with Foles, it is unlikely. I think you take every word way too literal.

            If Trent dilfer and Jeff Hostetler arent’t fairy tales than expecting Foles to duplicate that is like a 50yo fat woman still waiting patiently for Prince Charming to arrive. Not impossible, but also not probable.

            Of course all eagles fans will be rooting for the fairy tale, but some are already anticipating the ending. Surprise ending are always the best anyway aren’t they?

          • xeynon

            While I won’t agree that winning a SB is impossible with Foles, it is unlikely.

            Agreed, but winning the SB with Wentz this year was also unlikely. It’s unlikely that any team with any QB is going to win the SB in any year. Either Montana or Brady is the GOAT (or at least the greatest of the Super Bowl era), and they only won 4 in 13 seasons (in Montana’s case), and 5 in 18 seasons+ (in Brady’s case) – less than a 1-in-3 chance in any given year in which they played. Winning the SB is really hard and the odds are against you every year. It’s somewhat more unlikely with Foles, but it was never likely to begin with.

            If Trent dilfer and Jeff Hostetler arent’t fairy tales than expecting Foles to duplicate that is like a 50yo fat woman still waiting patiently for Prince Charming to arrive. Not impossible, but also not probable.

            This is where I think we’re having the disconnect. I don’t expect it to happen, but I didn’t expect them to win it all this year even with a healthy Wentz. But I do think as they still have a shot, I might as well enjoy it and hope for the best.

          • or____

            Alright buddy. Again, no offense intended. Have fun referring to well documented superbowl history as fairy tales.

    • xeynon

      Okay. In that case you can do something else with your Sundays for the rest of the season and ignore the team, and you don’t need to comment here. You won’t be missed.

      • Westpaceagle

        That hurts my feelings though

        • kajomo

          Some people don’t think you can be a fan, but also objectively realistic about things. Don’t take it personally

          • ChoTime

            dude, coming from you, this is hilarious. Talking out of both sides of your mouth much? come on!

          • kajomo

            I honestly don’t disagree with your comment and get where you are coming from.

            Being a fan is all about unbridled optimism and loyalty. I am as biased as any eagles fan and often let me emotions override my rational thoughts. I encourage this amongst other fans and normally embrace it. I have openly admitted times when i have done this.

            That is not the tone of this conversation. For one you have never seen me tell anyone never to post again. I am never that disrespectful or dismissive of other people’s opinions. I may disagree, but I try to remember we are all here as eagles fans.

            It’s ok to be optimistic about Wentz or Foles. For some the hope is what will get them through is a disappointing end to the season or a long offseason of unease. I am fine with that.

            It’s the idea that people are idiots if they :

            1) don’t see the eagles still as NFC favorites

            2) expect Wentz to miss any time.

            Any rational person knows that The loss of Wentz greatly decreases our odds of even going to the super bowl never mind winning it. Any rational person knows that we all hope Wentz gets back ASAP, but expecting him to meet a 9 month time table might be a stretch.

            If the irrational attitude was simply being a fan with optimism that would be cool. This has turned more towards attacking anyone who doesn’t have a Rose look on the rahle’s immediate future.

          • ChoTime

            I get you, although I don’t exactly see it that way. There’s a weird mood, of course, because the team just took a big shot. When things started to go sour with Chip, the same thing happened.

          • Westpaceagle

            Yeah, I get it. People were having fun and so was I. Sorry I guess misery loves company and I am freakin dead inside after today. I have been around long enough and watched and played enough football to be sure that our SB dreams are done. If I am wrong I will choke on the crow. Its not like I expect Tommy and Jimmy to pack up shop and stop writing, but as far as the national NFL media goes of course they are going to keep this idea alive. Somehow I am unrealistic and negative for saying we can’t win a SB with Nick freakin Foles- what alternate reality have we fallen into?

          • xeynon

            You are mistaking “less likely to win” with “can’t win”. That’s why people are calling you out.

            Saying the Eagles won’t miss a beat with Foles and that Wentz getting hurt shouldn’t reduce their chances at all is ridiculous, Pollyannish optimism.

            But that has its mirror image in equally ridiculous negativitiy, which is saying that they don’t have any chance to win without Wentz. Teams can and do win Super Bowls without star-level QB play. It’s not even all that rare in NFL history. Would I bet on it or consider the Eagles the favorite at this point? No. But would I completely rule them out? Also no.

    • Ryan Rambo

      Who do you want to start in Wentz’ absence then? Pederson? GTFOH.

      • Westpaceagle

        Nah man, just saying if you think that Foles can get it done and win a SB…well have fun with that.

        Of course he is going to start and play. That’s how back-ups work bro

    • FairOaks

      At this point, we need to get a bye, then focus on that first playoff game. We’ll have a better idea of how much Foles can do by then. If we win that game, *then* we can worry about the next one.

      Our biggest competition right now is another team with a great defense and a backup QB.

  • meteorologist

    If Nelson Agholar can make a jump, so can Foles. Plus Foles is under the same “QB incubator” coaching as Wentz was

    • kajomo

      Except Nelson Agholor always has the physical tools while Goles is athletically limited. No doubt he will be prepared and give it all he has, but I’m not sure it will be enough come playoff time

      • or____

        Many QBs are athletically limited.

        • kajomo

          That’s why many of them don’t win Super Bowls

          • xeynon

            40 y/o Peyton Manning who could barely move anymore and had a noodle arm is just the last in a long line of QBs who were more physically limited than Foles is who won Super Bowls.

            Get real.

          • kajomo

            Are you saying that our defense is as good as Denver’s was that year?

            I’ve said numerous times elite units win in the playoffs. Our only shot is if our DL takes over games. They have not done that recently.

          • xeynon

            Are you saying that our defense is as good as Denver’s was that year?

            No, but it doesn’t have to be, because our offense is better than Denver’s was that year, even with Foles as the QB.

            I’ve said numerous times elite units win in the playoffs.

            And I’ve given you numerous examples of teams that won in the playoffs with units that are statistically no better than what the Eagles’ is right now, or at least weren’t heading into the playoffs. Meaningless subjective descriptor aside, the Eagles’ defense is within the range of units that have historically been good enough to win without star-level QB play in the playoffs.

            Our only shot is if our DL takes over games. They have not done that recently.

            No argument with the first part, but I disagree with the second. Our DL had Wilson running for his life and the only success Goff had against us resulted from broken tackles or missed assignments in the secondary. They have to clean that stuff up if they’re going to win with defense in the postseason, and the front 7 can’t sacrifice gap integrity against a RB as good as Gurley as much as they did on Sunday, but this team is talented enough to do that. The execution needs to be better but it can be.

          • kajomo

            Again, I’m not saying it’s impossoble. I just think it’s unlikely. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think that losing Wentz significantly decreases our odds of a deep playoff run.

            I do think these last 3 games will clarify a lot for us before the playoffs begin. I will be cheering for him. I always liked him and hope he does well. I’m just not expecting him to be great

          • xeynon

            Nothing I disagree with in this post.

            See, we finally talked this out. 🙂

        • Stephen E.

          Brady runs like he’s pedaling a penny-farthing bicycle while carrying 20 pounds of ballast, for example.

    • Insomniac

      Ags has the talent, Foles arguably doesn’t.

  • ChoTime

    Let’s face it, guys: Case Keenum is going to be our daddy. Although backup QB to the overrated shortballer Sam Badford, he’s still obviously 10X better than Nick Foles. No way we could possibly beat Minnesota. Nick Foles has never done anything in this league… we’d be better off with Kaepernick or Joe Webb. Even though our O, D, and ST are ranked better by DVOA than Minnesota’s. And Case’ll probably have to come to Philly to play. Pack it in, Eagles fans. We took our shot. We have nothing left to play for. Let’s go hang out with our Browns fan buddies and drown our misery in PBRs.

    And if not Minnesota, one of the other NFC juggernauts is going to come in here and roll us. Seattle–oh wait, they’re not currently in the playoffs, sorry. Aaron Rodgers–oh… he’s out, right? Maybe Matt Ryan, that proven cold-hearted assassin, will be the one to curb-stomp us. Once Mattie Ice gets hot, you can’t stop him, only hope to contain him. Cam? Yeah, that guy is a pure winner. I can’t even imagine how this team could beat a Cam-led squad.

    Heck, if those guys don’t make it, probably Jared Goff will get revenge for this last game where he lost, and with his vast wealth of experience and proven talent, should make the Rams the prohibitive favorite to destroy us.

    No chance, guys. Just wash your Eagles gear and sorrowfully pack it away in the closet until 16 months from now, when Carson’s ACL is healed again.

    • Insomniac

      Sarcasm..?

    • Westpaceagle

      Great post man, truly. I hope they are all paper tigers. But I can easily see our playoff loss with Foles throwing 3 ints to any of those teams. It is undeniable that all of those QBs are much better than Foles. Plus don’t forget Drew Brees in the mix.

      • ChoTime

        I could see Foles being the weakest link, but I’m truly interested to see what this team can do without Wentz. To be quite honest, the SEA and LA games were both fairly traumatic, in that I think they revealed that this team was by no means indestructible. Some of us thought we were going to waltz to the Superbowl, but both teams strongly hinted we weren’t quite good as we thought. That was with Wentz, of course.

        The main difference in this team between this fabulous year and the disappointing performance last year has seemed to be CW. Now he’s gone. So now we get a chance to find out for sure. Are we better because Ags, Jeffrey, Ajayi, Blount, Clement, Pederson? Or was CW just carrying us all on his shoulders?

        I’m excited to find out. Also, I’ve always been a huge Foles fan, and even got to meet him and played guitar for him one time!

        I think these next three games will tell us everything we need to know.

        • Ark87

          I’m not so sure. I expect to win the next 2 games because those teams are garbage, should be able to win on the other strengths of the team, so the only significant outcome is if we lose, if that happens CW is the MVP in my mind without question. The 3rd game might be tough when the Cowboys have Zeke, but if we win the prior 2 games we will be resting key players.

          In the playoffs we will be playing a good squad one way or another. I expect to lose because I believe Wentz is the MVP, and you don’t shrug that off, the gap between us and the other top teams was never much to begin with. That being said, I am not without hope for the post-season as any of these things can be true:

          1) Any given Sunday fuckery. Turnovers, special teams, lucky bounce of the ball, favorable ref calls. The gap between Wentzless Eagles and any of these teams is not so great that a little luck can’t overcome them.

          2) The gap between Wentz and Foles isn’t that big via either or a combination of:

          2a) Wentz is not really an MVP caliber QB, he
          benefited from a Dak-esque favorable situation.

          2b) Foles had a rough few games as a rookie in
          a dead Reid regime, 1 capital G Great season,
          a mediocre-not good season with a dying CK
          regime, and a bad season with QB killer Jeff
          Fisher. Foles might actually be a starter quality
          QB or better in the right situation.

          • bsuperfi

            2a doesn’t seem likely to me. I like our skill players, but it’s not like we’re rolling Antonio Brown and Bell out there. The whole team is better, but I think Wentz is pretty clearly amazing. (Though, I think Ajayi now has an incredible opportunity to establish himself as a top RB for real.)

            2b seems possible. I think there’s an information gap with Foles, despite all the games he’s played, because he’s been in so many different weird situations. The breakdown on BGN today on Foles’ tape was good–it established Foles as a good but not great QB.

            He could thrive in the right situation. It’s happened to QBs before. Brees, obviously. Gannon. Etc. And this could be Foles’ last opportunity to play in a big game (because we all know Howie is going to fleece somebody with Foles’ contract in the offseason).

        • P_P_K

          A couple days ago, I had zero percent interest in seeing what this team can do without Wentz. Here we are, though, and it is exciting.
          Also, more about playing for Nick. He’s always come across to me as a cool guy.

      • xeynon

        I think it’s highly deniable to call Case Keenum “much better than Foles”, considering they’ve been in the league the same length of time and Foles’ career statistics are much better than Keenum’s.

    • xeynon

      Excellent satire. Perfect illustration of Poe’s Law.

      • ChoTime

        Thanks for bringing that phenomenon to my attention. I am such a sarcastic bastard, but I never really understood why I was so consistently misunderstood.

    • Bert’s Bells

      Moar Joe Webb

    • sonofdman

      So well done!

    • Man Of War

      i agree

    • Masked Man

      You forget the sarcasm font, but I got it…. Go Eagles!

    • Dragon_Eagle

      Post of the week. Couldn’t agree more.

    • P_P_K

      Dear Santa, be sure to move ChoTime onto the “good kids” list for having a great sense of humor.

  • Insomniac
    • SteveH

      I’m not unhappy, YOU’re unhappy! I’m not mad, YOU’RE mad! I’m not upset, YOU’RE upset!

      We’re all mad unhappy and upset. The 5 stages of grief are playing out simultaneously on here.

  • Mac

    The last time an axe wielding superhero led a team into the Superbowl it was the Eagles.

    Here’s to the hope that Axeman 2.0 can seal the deal.

    • or____

      Having mister “kill, maim and destroy back could help too…

  • kajomo

    Sidney Jones tears his Achilles in March at his pro day. He is given a 4-6 month time table for recovery. Even though the option has been there for weeks the eagles wait until he is 9 months removed from injury to allow him to begin practicing.

    MOST fans wanted to just red shirt him all year. No need to risk re-injury right? Why risk it. Jones could be a key part of our secondary moving forward. These same fans now want and expect the eagles to rush our Franchise QB back in 9 months.

    I guess people just need hope and optimism right now. For those who are realistic expect Wentz to fall somewhere in the middle of that 9-12 months. Also expect that he may not come out clicking on all cylinders. He will likely be rusty and many players take time to trust that surgically repaired knee.

    My optimism is that Foles can keep us in contention until wentz comes back and he hopefully doesn’t take too long to get back in the swing of things

    • FairOaks

      I wanted him playing at the end of the year. That in-game experience could be invaluable to his off-season. It’s really hard when you go that long without actually playing, especially when you have never actually played in the NFL before.

      Especially if we sit starters that last game, he could play a lot there.

      I believe he will now be a restricted free agent at the end of his rookie deal.

    • xeynon

      You keep repeating this post and people keep posting all the links and evidence pointing out that a QB coming back the next season to play a full 16 games after suffering this exact injury is not unusual at all, and that plenty of people who know more than you (i.e. orthopedic surgeons, physical therapists, etc.) say it’s perfectly realistic for him to be ready for week one next season.

      Through arguing with you. If you want to be a miserable SOB and wallow in unwarranted despair and irrational pessimism, go ahead. Just stop trying to drag everyone else down with you.

      • kajomo

        When have I been miserable? Just because I don’t agree with your narrative doesn’t mean I’m negative.

        I hope you are right with him coming back to start the season. Just because I realistically don’t see that happening isn’t negative.

        You’ve been a belligerent a-hole to everyone who doesn’t think we are still SB favorites and/or think Wentz plays 16 games next season. Honestly neither of those things are impossible, but neither are all that probable.

        All you’ve done is call people negative, miserable, tell them they are ridiculous, and tell them not to post here any more. Your temper tantrums are way more negative than anything anyone else has posted.

        • xeynon

          When have I been miserable?

          Umm, in every post you’ve made over the past few days?

          Just because I don’t agree with your narrative doesn’t mean I’m negative.

          It’s not that you don’t agree with my “narrative” that makes you negative. It’s that you ignore objective reality and evidence (past precedent, the opinions of informed experts, etc.) in order to hold to an expectation that is significantly worse than what an emotionally uninvested outside observer would have. That is the very definition of being negative, sorry.

          You’ve been a belligerent a-hole to everyone who doesn’t think we are still SB favorites and/or think Wentz plays 16 games next season. Honestly neither of those things are impossible, but neither are all that probable.

          All I’ve done is post counterargument backed up by facts and evidence suggesting that people who are convinced that we don’t still have a chance to win the championship and/or who expect Wentz to miss half the season next year have no factual, rational basis for holding either opinion. If laying out facts and evidence that suggest people are wrong is being a “belligerent a-hole” to them then yeah, sure, whatever. Where I come from we just call that “making a decent argument”.

          All you’ve done is call people negative, miserable, tell them they are ridiculous, and tell them not to post here any more.

          Just keeping it real. People are being negative and miserable, and they are making ridiculous arguments. Aren’t Philadelphians supposed to be all about keeping it real?

          • ChoTime

            Yo, X, have you ever looked into Meyers-Briggs personality types? Us INTPs just don’t see the world the same as many others. Leads to conflicts.

          • xeynon

            I have yeah. I actually tested as INFP but I think one of the cases where I’m T rather than F is with regard to sports fandom – I think about all this stuff in terms of probabilities rather than in emotional terms.

          • kajomo

            I’m not responding to everything, but I never said he would miss half the season. I said significant time. 4 games is significant. 6 is a ton of time.

            You can talk about other QBs all you want. It’s the way this eagles team has handled injuries that make me believe in a longer time table. They have handled every single injury this year cautiously. They sit people with minor injuries. The extend time tables by several weeks. I get other players have come back sooner. To me the precedent set by this eagles team is more relevant here and something you are completely ignoring.

            Wentz is their most valueable asset long term. I think they do everything they can to ensure his long term health even if it sacrifices something in the short term. You may not agree, but I don understand how you cannot acknowledge this as a reasonable line of thinking. It’s not negative, it’s just an alternate view on how this will play out.

          • xeynon

            It’s the way this eagles team has handled injuries that make me believe in a longer time table.

            That’s fair enough, although I do think some of it has to do with whether they think they can get away with sitting guys (e.g. there’s not much of a production dropoff from Ertz to Burton so sitting Ertz, especially against a weak opponent like Denver, doesn’t carry much downside risk). In cases where there’s clearly a huge dropoff between the starter and the backup (e.g. on the offensive line) their guys have gutted out injuries. I don’t recall them holding anyone out for weeks at a time, other than maybe Darby who they didn’t exactly need to rush back given how well Mills, Douglas, and Robinson have played this year.

            I’m sure they’ll do the prudent thing with Carson and won’t rush him back to play on a wobbly ACL – and they shouldn’t. But he is as indispensable a player as there is in the league so if he’s ready to play he will. Based on the history of similar injuries, there’s reason to expect that will be in time for the regular season.

          • Jernst

            I agree. I think they’ll be super cautious with him especially if Foles proves to be an adequate backup in these next few games. It would not shock me in the least if Wentz misses the first month of the season. I also wouldn’t be totally shocked if Ginger Jesus is one of those rare freaks that is running around at training camp 6 months after his surgery. We’ll find out when we find out. But, I don’t think you’re saying anything ridiculous, Kajomo.

          • Jernst

            I think you’re being a little too sure of your statements regarding experts taking your side. The greatest sports orthopedic surgeon to ever live and likely the man who will be performing Wentz’s surgery himself, actually disagrees with you and agrees with kajomo.

            https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2017/12/11/16764822/carson-wentz-injury-recovery-acl-knee-surgery-9-12-months-dr-james-andrews-philadelphia-eagles-qb

            We won’t know the truth till it plays out. But when Dr James Andrews says 9-12 months and Xeynon says 6-9 months, I’m inclined to believe the man who essentially invented the surgery Wentz is about to have. Just sayin’.

          • xeynon

            Been over this before. Andrews is the guy performing the surgery and is therefore going to give a conservative estimate, because there is literally no downside to doing so. If he comes back earlier than that, great. If not, well, you warned them. If you say he’s coming back in 6-8 months, and he has a setback in his recovery, everybody blames you. When you’re the one whose professional reputation is on the line, it pays to be conservative. This is a CYA thing, not a definitive prognosis.

            I have heard at least half a dozen other orthopedic surgeons, including several who specialize in ACL tears, asked about Wentz’s recovery over the past few days, and literally every single one of them has said that for the type of injury he has (simple ACL tear with no additional ligament damage), it should be no problem to return by the beginning of next season. Other QBs who have suffered this exact same injury at a similar point in the year have had no problem returning by the beginning of the next season.

            Given the fact that other doctors who have less reason to be overly cautious disagree with Andrews, and that the historical track record for recovering from this injury has been less than 9-12 months in most cases, I’m inclined to think Andrews is just showing an abundance of caution.

      • SteveH

        To be honest though I’m perfectly fine with giving Wentz as much time as he needs. Our playoffs hopes probably aren’t going to hinge on whether he plays the first 3-4 weeks next year, unless of course we suck complete balls, which doesn’t seem too likely with the quality of the roster.

  • Bend_dont_break

    Watching Foles highlights from Kansas City and Philly reminded me of four things that Foles does better than Wentz:

    1. Sliding: Foles is much more willing to slide than take the hit on runs… but they are some ugly and unathletic looking slides…

    2. Swing passes: Foles gets the ball to WRs/RBs on swing passes faster and more accurately than Wentz does… hits a lot more of them in stride.

    3. Screen passes: Similar to the swing passes, Foles places the ball more accurately and with better timing than Wentz on screens. This might also be helped by the belief a pass rusher will have that they can sack Foles versus Wentz being a Houdini act.

    4. Jump balls: Foles will put the ball up there and let his WRs go get it (remember how he made Rilley Cooper look good?)

    I expect the Eagles change their game plans, but it might be more about changing the type of pass plays than leaning on their running game.

    And yes, there are clearly things Foles is worse at, like: not as much of a threat with his legs, worse at intermediate throws (not going to convert many 3&15+), lower arm strength, worse accuracy, no spectacular playmaking ability, etc. but I like thinking about the positives. Ertz and Cooper had great chemistry with Foles, which bodes well for this year’s skill position players (and it sure looks like he knows how to use Agholor).

    • xeynon

      I think he also throws the deep ball better than Wentz. Not as many overthrows/underthrows to guys streaking open down the field.

      That said, the stuff he lacks compared to Wentz, he really lacks.

    • RC5000

      He’s better at checkdowns…

      I personally think Wentz places the ball better for jump balls. His throws have been particularly amazing in last handful of games. No QB has ever worn an Eagles uni that places the ball more accurately on some of those throws Wentz makes into tight coverage.

      • xeynon

        Yeah, Wentz is phenomenal at throwing the jump ball, as well as the back shoulder throw. No way Foles duplicates that. Needing to adjust is one reason it’s good this injury happened now and not in week 17 as the receivers can use the final three weeks of practice/games to build chemistry with Foles.

      • BlindChow

        The checkdown thing might actually help with the 3rd and longs we always seem to be in.

        I can’t remember how many times this season I was thinking “Just throw it to the RB in the flat, he’s wide open!!” when Wentz was clutching the ball too long on 2nd and 10. (Though just as often he’d make some amazing throw and convert, so maybe not…)

        • Mac

          I do think Carson struggles with making the “easy” screen toss… which could mean a return to the screen game with Foles at the helm.

      • Bend_dont_break

        I agree that Wentz throws a better jump ball, but Foles is more willing to throw the jump ball, which could suit the Eagles very well with the WRs they have (Particilarly Jeffrey, Hollins, and Johnson). I will give you that Wentz was improving significantly over the last few weeks (introduction of an Aaron Rodgers-style back shoulder throw had me super excited)

        I can easily see checkdowns becoming an important part of the offense on 1st and 2nd down since Foles won’t often successfully push the ball into tight coverage over the middle in the 15-25 yard range like Wentz can to overcome 3rd and extra long.

  • Todd Blake

    The Eagles, obviously, just took a huge step back and I am just as upset as everyone else.

    But then I watched the Patriots last night and realized every team is flawed. The Eagles, with Wentz, is an close to perfect as you can get.

    With Foles, they are a more flawed team that brings them back down to the rest of the pack.

    Will the Eagles beat these other teams? I have no idea but I know they CAN. It wasn’t Wentz that led the #1 rushing defense. It wasn’t Wentz that was creating all those holes in the run game.

    Foles just needs to not be more than he is. Take what the defense gives.

    I also have a little comfort that this team with Foles is still a better team than the Giants and the Raiders. And they might be better than the Cowboys.

    They need to truely have a one game at a time mentality. If they take care of business, then they won’t have to face Wilson and Brees and Newton and Ryan. They might have to face two of them but not all.

    • xeynon

      Very rational, realistic take.

    • kajomo

      I was a Foles fan when he was here with Chip. I think he’s a guy you can win with if surrounded by enough talent.

      My biggest concern is not just the drop off at QB, but the fact that Wentz made everyone around him better. This will have an impact on the OL, WRs, and running game in addition to just a downgrade of play at the QB position.

      We will need this team to play to it’s potential every game in the playoffs to have a shot. Winning out here will go a long way towards helping with that. Foles can make things a lot easier on himself by winning out this regular season.

      • Todd Blake

        Yep, I agree with that. Wentz was the MVP leader for a reason. He cannot be replaced. Every player will need to play lights out for sure. But the Eagles are not dead yet. They just need to concentrate on the Giants and see where they are after that. They cannot win or lose the SB this week.

      • xeynon

        I agree with that.

        I do think there are some ways a combo of Foles + a change in the scheme could actually benefit the OL (scrambling QBs who hold the ball for a long time like Carson does make plays, but they also do sometimes make offensive linemen look worse than they are), and it is possible Foles’ proficiency at the deep ball will result in a few more long completions, but yeah, on the whole there’s no question this can be expected to have a ripple effect and bring down the overall performance of the rest of the offense. You don’t lose a player of Wentz’s caliber without that happening. The big question is whether the coaches and the rest of the team can do enough to compensate.

  • bsuperfi

    Analysis and emotional flagellation aside, the thing I’m really sad about is how much fun we’ll all be missing. Wentz is just so much fun to watch. He’s must see football tv for me, like Randall and Barry Sanders were. Generational fun. I love that, while he’s good at running an offense traditionally, he’s a football wizard.

    I’m of course rooting for the Eagles hard over the next couple months, and I think they have a shot. I’m even convincing myself to glory in the drama of it all. But it definitely won’t be as much fun to watch, win or lose.

    • xeynon

      We’re missing 4+ games of fun (and if it gets beyond 4, it means we’ve at least made it to the NFC Championship game and should be having fun regardless of who the QB is).

      People are talking about Wentz as if he died. He’ll be back next year. He’s only 24 and almost certainly has a long career ahead of him. This sucks, but will likely be only a brief blip by the end of his career. There’s plenty more fun coming.

    • P_P_K

      Yea, but the next string of games, and into the playoffs, could also be a blast. If St Nick delivers the goods, the rest of this season could be an incredible ride. The question is: what does “delivering the goods” mean?

      • W’s

        • P_P_K

          Can’t argue with that.

      • Mac

        A 2018 1st round pick.

        • P_P_K

          A boy can dream.

  • RobNE

    Simmons on his podcast dismissed Wentz as MVP (before Brady struggled last night). Is it that much of a reach? I mean sometimes starters sit the last 2 games anyway.

    I am not saying this would make me feel ok, just curious. 11-2 is really good.

    • sonofdman

      I think Wentz’s best chance for MVP is if the Eagles go in the tank the next 3 games. Then everyone can say “look how great Wentz did and how the team fell apart without him.”

      Obviously, I am not hoping for that to happen.

    • Ark87

      Real-talk, the MVP is Rodgers unless the Eagles are roughly equivalent to the Browns without Wentz.

      • Bert’s Bells

        Packers still put up some Ws without him.

        • Ark87

          We’re talking overtime wins against the Buccs and Browns, and one solid win against the Bears. Losses to the likes of the Lions, and Ravens. So yes, if the Eagles look evenly matched with the likes of the Giants on Sunday, ok, then I can say Wentz is at least as valuable.

          But the way folks are talking here, it’s like Wentz being deadly in the run/pass option and play action had nothing to do with Ajayi having 6.98 YPA, infact Wentz being so good was taking carries away from him! Losing Wentz means we get to be a different kind of good! The defense is going to suddenly wake up and be good now that they can’t rely on Wentz to bail them out. Pederson, realizing he won’t have Wentz to bail him out 3rd down, after 3rd down, after 3rd down will suddenly stop dinking and dunking on 1st and second down. The O-line, realizing sacks kill drives, and Foles can’t do the Russel Wilson thing, will know they have to block now.

          It’s Kafka-esque. Here Wentz was doing all this stuff for his team, allowing them to be complacent and shitty. As soon as he tears his ACL everyone is betters themselves and are better for it without him. (Ref: Metamorphosis)

          Sarcasm aside, if the Eagles shrug off the Wentz injury and succeed, he’s not MVP in any sense. He just wasn’t a critical piece to the team’s success. And there are other player who most certainly are.

          • “if the Eagles shrug off the Wentz injury and succeed, he’s not MVP in any sense. He just wasn’t a critical piece to the team’s success.”
            after watching this team go 11-2,that is the most illogical idea I`ve read on here in a long time

          • Ark87

            Don’t give me that half-baked put down. You call something illogical youd best have some logic to your point. I can’t do anything with your comment but return an insult, so make a discussion next time.

          • Illogical in your reasoning because without the mvp level of play by Wentz the Eagles would not have won even half of their games. If the teams continues to play at a high level, and win, that takes nothing away from the performance of Wentz in the previous games up to his injury.

          • Ark87

            I assure you, there’s logic, if the Eagles could find a way to win the next 6 (the last 3 being the biggest feat in franchise history) games without Wentz now, they could have figured out how to go 11-2 without him previously. He would not be as key to the Eagles as say, Aaron Rodgers is to the Packers, a team that turns roughly into the Browns without him.

            I think Wentz is the MVP, for the record. I think you guys have serious cognitive dissonance to think Wentz is both the MVP AND the Eagles don’t need him to win a superbowl. By definition the MVP is irreplaceable. Make a choice, but leave the BS homerism for the tailgates.

    • Jernst

      On a side note…if this team continues to drop 30 points a game on people is there any doubt that Pederson is coach of the year

    • Dragon_Eagle

      I love Wentz and hope he wins it. But, if I’m being honest, I give it to Russell Wilson.

      • SteveH

        Even after his 3 interception performance against the Jaguars? Jesus people are forgiving of other teams star QB’s, if Wentz tossed 3 in a game we’d be having a full blown meltdown talking about what this means for the future of the franchise.

        • sonofdman

          Wilson is amazing at his best, but he has had a number of crappy games this season.

        • Dragon_Eagle

          Yes. We’re going to suffer without Wentz- we’re probably a 0.500 team, we’ll see. The Seahawks would be this year’s Denver Broncos level or worse without Wilson. He’s the entire offense. MVP.

          Wentz, now, would be forgiven a bad game, because we know what he can do when he’s on and he’s much more often on than off. Wentz would get roasted if it becomes a regular pattern of 3-INTs/game.

    • FairOaks

      Simmons is pro-Boston so he will try to find any pro-Brady argument.

      I don’t think it’s much of a reach, but Brady may have some time to catch up on the TD count.

      • xeynon

        Yeah I generally like Simmons but he is the biggest homer there is, to the point that it’s embarrassing and unprofessional for a guy who purports to be a national sports commentator.

    • SteveH

      Someone should ask him about MVP brady from last night, lol. Brady was hot trash, that was the worst game he’s played in a decade.

      • Mr. Magee

        I suppose it would have to be confirmed ay the all-22, but I agree he looked downright awful… Many of his balls were not even close, and he could have had an additional INT or 2. Looked more like Greg Brady than Tom Brady. I suppose the game did not really matter much to NE, since homefield advantage comes down to Pittsburgh game on Sunday, correct?

        Also, did anyone happen to catch any of Belichek’s post game presser? What a jackass he is…

        • SteveH

          His 2 picks that #25 from the Dolphins got were both bad throws, and he had a few more throws that were just like … What the fuck was that. I’ve never seen Brady play so bad, at least not in a very long time. Garbage time yards got his QB rating *UP* to 59, that should tell you how awful he was.

    • Guy Media

      Simmons needs to dismiss himself from the land of the living.

  • GermanEagle

    It’s either going to be Wentz winning MVP or Pederson becoming head coach of the year. Under the current circumstances both will not be possible.

    Also if my memory serves me well Nick Foles put the Eagles in a position to win against the Saints back then only to see the defense not being able to come up with a stop on their last drive.

    • Insomniac

      I think Doug will still get HOTC. MVP talks are a bit more wide open now that Wentz is done for the season.

      • BlindChow

        I think the Wentz injury might actually be the thing that propels Doug to COTY over McVay.

        If the team holds together and doesn’t take an enormous step back, it’ll show that the Eagles this year were more than just a middling coach riding a great player to a lot of wins.

        • Bert’s Bells

          Doug’s balls should win COTY, no question.

    • jshort

      Look at the bright side, we’ve won every game FOles appeared in this year.

    • xeynon

      I think it’s far more likely that Doug wins COTY than that Wentz wins MVP.

      If the Eagles win 2 of their last 3 to sew up the #1 seed, the story will be about how piloted a team decimated by injuries to the best record in football and overcame (at least temporarily) the loss of his All Pro-caliber QB and 3 of the best 5 players on his opening day roster. In addition, McVay, who is clearly his strongest competition, has a good chance of losing support because his team “fades down the stretch” if they lose at Seattle this weekend (very possible).

      Wentz meanwhile cannot do any more to add to his candidacy, and if Foles plays competently as his replacement it might even undermine it a bit. Brady has only won it twice and I suspect the writers might want to give to the aging legend one more time rather than the 24 y/o kid who will be around for years to come.

      • GermanEagle

        Very well written.

  • Mac
  • GermanEagle

    Such a shame that GEagle is not around these days:

    In FOLes we trust…

    • daveH

      Isnt Geagle. .G (erman) eagle ? .. can’t be; you both have diametrically opposite writing styles

    • BlindChow

      If there’s anything that can bring him back…it’s tHe RAinMakEr!!!!

    • Mr. Magee

      Why do so many people spell it FOles? Does it have any meaning, or is it just in homage to GEagle typographical randomness?

      • A_T_G

        According to the man, he accidentally taught his phone’s autocorrect that version and refused to fix it. Combined with his unabashed worship of the man and his abrasive disdain for anyone who did not believe Foles was the future of the franchise created a kind of comic parody that has stuck.

        • daveH

          Think he also changed his real jersey to FOles ..

    • Guy Media

      I miss that dude’s stuff. Often it needed to be shrunk down to a more manageable window size, but I got a chuckle out of him.

      And how about West Ham over Chelsea!!!!

      • SteveH

        Seriously, GEagle was fun but needed an editor very badly.

      • ChoTime

        I was getting carpal from scrolling down past his posts. That was in the bad old days before blocking…

    • LeatherWallet

      What happened to him?

      • GermanEagle

        He’s become a Twitter (politics) maniac..

  • Ryan Rambo

    Foles just seems more confident than I’ve ever seen him. IDK what that translates to on Sundays but man, we’re definitely not out of it. I TRULY wanna shock the world and show this league how resilient we are as a team and fans. LOVE MY BIRDS FOREVER!!!

  • Ryan Rambo
    • xeynon

      We can say this about him – if he fails, it won’t be because of lack of intelligence or maturity, or being overwhelmed by the moment.

      • Masked Man

        Nicky sounds like he’s more than ready. He looked ready when he stepped into the game Sunday.

        I was looking at some Fran Duffy cut ups of Nicky from KC and also from Sunday. The big difference I noticed is that his footwork looks cleaner here. It looks sharper than at KC.

        He talks like a guy that has command of the offense too. I think it’s cool that he has a three game run up as the starter to whatever it is he’ll do in the playoffs.

        Maybe hope is not lost….. Go Eagles!

        • CrackSammich

          Always looks good until the rush comes.

      • SteveH

        That third down pass to Agholor was a clutch clutch throw. Foles has never lacked the clutch factor, his limiting factors are a very mediocre arm and limited mobility.

        At his best he is the kind of QB who makes good throws on time, but doesn’t do anything that makes you go “Wow”. And that could be good enough for us, lets hope.

  • Ryan Rambo

    Seems like Burton is an emerging weapon for us. Any thoughts on his role going forward assuming Ertz is back and healthy, does he have an independent role?

  • Ryan Rambo
    • FairOaks

      Hm, who would get dropped I wonder. We do need special teams help. I guess we could use Carson’s spot for now, but Sidney Jones may need a spot in a week or two.

      • Ryan Rambo

        Good question. I assumed it would be Carson’s roster spot.

        • daveH

          If they drop him from the roster would he get a wing if we went to the soup or bowl event they have in Minnesota this coming Jan ?

      • D3FB

        It’ll be Carson’s spot and probably Means on game day.

        I’m not sure they actually have to ever activate Jones. They could just let him practice.

        • xeynon

          It’s probably a long shot that this would be the case given that he had no offseason and is coming off an injury, but if Jones looks great in practice I think they should consider activating him. Adding a shutdown corner to the mix could take this defense from “good” to “the kind of defense that can carry you to a SB championship with a backup QB”.

          • D3FB

            Good job covering Torrey Smith in a glorified walkthrough, go stick Adam Thielen.

          • xeynon

            Like I said, probably a long shot.

          • D3FB

            We’ve got enough depth that I’m not sure it’s going to impct any offseason plans so i’d rather just keep him on the shelf.

          • xeynon

            I feel ya’. I’m not sure it’s a worthwhile idea either, just floating the thought.

        • Guy Media

          Yup; Howie goona get that extra year of team control!

        • FairOaks

          Think they have three weeks to put him on IR or activate him. But yeah, not sure how the playoffs work in this situation. But if we are sitting starters in the last game, that could be an interesting game to get him some experience.

          • Guy Media

            I hope they don’t activate him at all because I think he was the best corner in the draft and I’d prefer him stuck as a RFA as leverage against his next deal. If he never plays this year he loses a year towards UFA status.

          • FairOaks

            I think the RFA thing has already happened. If he plays fewer than six games it will not be an accrued season. Don’t think there is any risk on that score of playing him.

          • sonofdman

            I think he has to play 6 games to gain a year toward UFA status, so he can play at any point now and will still be a RFA at the end of his contract.

  • Someguy77

    There was a bit of chastising of Roseman this offseason when he brought in Foles on a fairly large-sized deal.

    Deserves credit in retrospect for not only bringing in Foles but also getting rid of Daniel. Roseman realized this team needed an adequate backup who could at least give the team a chance to win a few games if pressed into service.

    If Daniel was the starting QB the rest of the way, this team would have likely finished 1-2 and been very hard pressed to win a single playoff game.

    Foles at least gives them a decent chance to finish 2-1 and fighting chance to win their divisional round matchup game.

    • xeynon

      Agreed.. if you need evidence that it’s worth investing in a good backup you need look no further than what happened to the Texans once Watson got hurt.

  • daveH

    Bitcoin

  • Someguy77

    Maybe the Eagles WRs aren’t great blockers but with Foles back I want to see the return of the WR bubble screen especially to Agholor.

    With Ertz out, Agholor and Ajayi are the two most dynamic offensive players this team has capable of creating big plays.
    Talk
    Need to get them the ball more.

    More post-ups and fades to Jeffrey as well please too. Eagles actually have a tall, physical WR who can jump with big hands who knows who to use his size effectively. Eagles tried running that fade play with Cooper but he was a poor fit most of all because of how smaller more physical DBs would out work him.

  • Someguy77

    Call me crazy but the biggest injury the Eagles have right now is Wiz at LG.

    Seumalo has been mindboggingly bad his last two games and a complete sieve in passing protection.

    If Foles gets pressure up the middle on a fairly consistent basis, it is going to be a big problem.

    • Insomniac

      We need to send you to the asylum.

      • Someguy77

        Barring the obvious Wentz injury.

        • Mr. Magee

          Knew what you meant, and your point is a good one. Has there been any update on Wiz anywhere?

          • xeynon

            Doug said during his PC yesterday that Wiz was day-to-day with an ankle injury and should be fine.

    • xeynon

      Wentz, Hicks, and Peters are obviously bigger losses, but among guys who are still on the roster and nursing injuries which might or might not allow them to play over the rest of the year, Wiz is right up there. The dropoff from him to Seumalo/Warmack is frightening.

      Among healthy guys, though, I can think of several players we can afford to lose even less – Johnson, Cox, Jenkins, Bradham, Brooks, etc. Foles and Vaitai probably belong on that list now too.

      • daveH

        At least good to knows that no team can complain more than us about key impact guys lossed to injury

    • kajomo

      We all give credit to Ags for turning his career around after being so bad. Seumalo is like the anti-Ags. I don’t recall a guy looking so promising as a rookie to so bad the following year. I consider Seumalo’s regression as one of the season’s biggest surprises

  • or____

    Braman signing official per pft. I like this.

    • Mr. Magee

      Could he help? Definitely could use some help on STs

    • Guy Media

      x2

  • Bert’s Bells
    • Masked Man

      Awww, you got me Bert. How did you like my adaptation?

  • daveH

    Fwiw im the jjnx ground zero .. i went to the hallowed Hawaiian burial grounds high above Waimea bay in 1990 .. jinx us all. Sorry.
    I was respectful while there, but didn’t even realise as a haole i wasnt supposed to even be in the parking lot.
    Was watching some surf footage and some drone footage made me realise this after all this time.

  • Guy Media

    I know this isn’t related to our current pie fight, but ESPN can GO FUCK ITSELF.

    http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago-bears/post/_/id/4707314/is-devin-hester-a-hall-of-famer-you-bet-he-is

    If you want to call Hester a sure fire HOF player while B Mitch can’t get a sniff; FUCK OFF.

    • xeynon

      There is such a logjam of great players waiting to get into the HoF.. in a sport with 32 teams in the league, and 53 players and 22 starters on each team (25 if you count kickers, punters, and return specialists), they should really vote in more than 5 guys a year.

      • Guy Media

        Or take a few out; like Bettis, Swann, and Warner!

        • xeynon

          Bettis and Warner were borderline cases, and I think you can definitely make the case against both, but I can’t say I really object strongly to either being in there… As for Swann, it’s kind of hard to judge those 1970s receivers since it was a much less passing centric-era. He made 3 Pro Bowls and was a SB MVP, but he was definitely aided by playing on a dynasty.. if he’d played for the 1970s Browns or Seahawks I don’t think he makes it.

          • Guy Media

            He played for Pittsburgh, so I judge him as overrated.

    • Guy Media

      https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/all_purpose_yds_career.htm

      Seriously, 2nd all time to Jerry Rice vs. 43rd.

      • xeynon

        Yeah no argument re: Mitchell, he definitely deserves to be in. Even though he’s more of an ex-Redskin than ex-Eagle (I live down in the DC area and he’s a regular on the Redskins post game and radio shows the way guys like B West, Brooks, and Joyner have been on Eagles coverage in Philly).

  • Masked Man

    I just read that Eagles signed ST Ace Bryan Braman! They used Carson’s roster spot for him.

    We missed that guy. I was sad when they released him before.

    • Guy Media

      And a much better signing than trying to shoehorn a glorified running back onto this roster.

      • Masked Man

        Glorified RB like who..?
        Oh…. You mean Kap?
        Haha.

        • Guy Media

          Ask Marcus Hayes

          • Masked Man

            I will pass on Kap 10 times out of 10.
            Too big a distraction.

          • Guy Media

            I don’t mind that element of it, I just don’t care for how he plays the position.

          • Masked Man

            I think he would start a fight with Malcolm Jenkins the first week. Personally, I think he’s selfish. I’m not insensitive to the issues. I just think he’s basically a “ME” guy. All the rest is noise in his case IMHO. People can even say some of the right stuff for the wrong reasons at times….. Just me. But I think it shows because he says it in the wrong ways a lot. I’ll take a pass on Kap.

          • Guy Media

            I don’t have any doubts on Kaep’s motives, but he’s not been the most accessible dude to explain himself either.

          • Julescat

            it’s OK to doubt his motives

            Kap is a bonafide jerk

          • ColorSgt

            He’s not good.

          • or____

            There is no context imaginable that can make that wise advice.

          • Guy Media

            Even if you have some type of clandestine passing coach that the team hates?

          • or____

            I don’t understand that reference, but if it means having to read Hayes, i am content not finding out.

          • Guy Media

            Hayes tried to stir up stuff about the team being upset with Wentz going to a passing coach this off-season. It was baseless and stupid.

            http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/Eagles_Carson_Wentz_Doug_Pederson_Adam_Dedeaux_Tom_House.html

          • or____

            Oh right that crap, ha. I totally forgot about it. Thought you were talking about something in reference to Colin K…

          • sonofdman

            LOL

  • ChoTime

    Awful DVOA for the Rams game:

    DVOA OFF DEF ST TOT
    PHI 18.4% 19.1% -15.9% -16.6%
    LARM 62.5% -9.6% 4.1% 76.3%

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2017/week-14-dvoa-ratings

    • Guy Media

      That’s a hot pile of barf.

    • SteveH

      What the fuck? We won the game but lost the DVOA? Doesn’t that kind of invalidate DVOA’s usefulness as a metric?

      • Sean E

        No, see, we didn’t win in the way that the man-made algorithm says is best to win.

        • SteveH

          As far as I can see the Rams won big in DVOA because they had a few fast drives that resulted in scores.

          Evidently this is not counterbalanced by the bad drives they had, especially at the end of the game where they literally fumbled away the lead.

          Also I’m guessing DVOA doesn’t adjust for we lost our freaking quarterback and had to play our backup the whole 4th quarter who went on to win us the game against your DVOA darling anyhow.

      • ChoTime

        No, if you want to see who won the game, look at the score. No stat works that way. Stats are for digging deeper than who won or loss. They describe what happened.

        “No, the bigger issue here is the problem of measuring efficiency vs. total value. DVOA measures the former…The Rams were much more efficient, gaining 6.8 yards per play compared to just 5.4 yards per play for Philadelphia…”

        Funny, because for large stretches of the 2nd half, nearly everyone on the gamethread could see that the Rams were killing us on offense. Yet now when there’s a number that says that, it’s a big problem?

    • sonofdman

      I though this was interesting about special teams:

      “The Rams got 74 yards on four kickoff returns while the Eagles didn’t return a single kickoff.”

      Four kickoff returns for 74 yards is 18.5 yards per kickoff return, which means that the (on average) Rams were not getting past the 25 yard line on their returned kickoffs. It is odd that the Eagles are penalized for making the smart decision to take the touchback and get the ball on the 25 while the Rams were rewarded by accumulating return yards while starting with worse field position.

    • xeynon

      Which illustrates the limitations of DVOA as a metric, especially when applied to a one game sample size.

  • SteveH

    I’m almost through my grieving process… How are ya’ll doing? I’m going to miss seeing #11 out there on Sundays.

    I’ll pass the torch to Foles soon but I’m not quite there yet.

    • Ark87

      Marching to the post-season as an underdog that everyone wrote off is a very familiar and comfortable fan mind-set to slip back into. Maybe 27-2 Foles shows up for the post-season, there’s the faint hope that can be fun, but you just got to get past the loss of being the defacto best team in the NFC with home field advantage gave us as good a chance as we ever had to finally win a Superbowl.

      But the scrappy underdog is an Eagles team we all know and love.

  • Insomniac

    Rodgers back? Oh boy shit keeps getting worse for us (if they make it into the playoffs)

    • anon

      Hundley is either a bad QB or that team sucks w/out rodgers

      • Insomniac

        Could be both with the addition of McCarthy being a bad coach as well.

    • Ark87

      I don’t think they make it, honestly, Pretty sure they have to win out against the Panthers, Vikings, and Lions with Rodgers coming off the couch to save a pretty bad Green Bay team.

      If they do make it, it means Rodgers is red hot and freaking scary. Either way, there will be no easy games in the NFC. Vikings, Saints, Rams, Falcons, Panthers, Seahawks, Greenbay could all be scary, good teams are going to be watching the playoffs from home in the NFC.

      The AFC is a damn travesty. Kind of makes me wish the wildcards didn’t have conference boundaries.

      • Insomniac

        Neither do I but they have a punchers chance right now. I sure as hell won’t doubt Rodgers to get hot in a week especially after seeing that some of those teams ahead of them looking vulnerable.

    • xeynon

      They have a very row to hoe to even make the playoffs (they need to win out against a tough schedule, as well as get additional help). If they do make it, they’ll have to win a road playoff game against a very good opponent (likely LA, New Orleans, or Seattle) to even make it to the second round. Even with Rodgers, the likelihood of them pulling all that off is low. Their defense is terrible.

      To quote A-Rod himself: relax.