The Morning After
Posted: December 11th, 2017 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 386 Comments »
Still hurting from the sucker punch we all got on Sunday? The Football Gods can be real jerks sometimes. I’m praying this is just going to be scare of the century, but it just doesn’t feel like that’s the case based on everything we’re hearing from the media.
The shame in all the attention going to the injury is that it overshadows a really impressive win. Perfect? Heck no. There were more than few problems on Sunday, but don’t overlook the fact the Eagles beat a good team in a big game.
Think about the flip side. If you’re the Rams, you just lost a crucial game. You knocked Carson Wentz out of the game. You blocked a punt and returned it for a TD. Todd Gurley played lights out against the #1 run D in the league. Cooper Kupp had 118 receiving yards. Jared Goff finished with a rating of 110.
And you lost!
The Eagles showed a lot of heart on Sunday. They were down 7-0 in the blink of an eye, but didn’t panic. Next thing you know they’re up 21-7.
The Rams came storming out of halftime, scoring a quick TD and then blocking a punt, which was returned for a TD. Suddenly the lead was gone and the Eagles trailed 28-24.
The Eagles led 31-28 after Wentz hit Alshon Jeffrey for a crazy TD late in the 3rd quarter. But Wentz headed into the locker room and the Rams marched right down the field. They scored to re-take the lead at 35-31.
It would have been easy for the Eagles to panic at that point. They were down by four, on the road (sort of) and missing their star QB. Instead, the team marched down the field and kicked a FG to cut the lead to 35-34.
The defense had given up TDs on the previous two drives, and looked somewhat helpless. With Wentz out, there was no way the Eagles could win a shootout. They needed the defense to step up. Someone had to make a play.
Enter Chris Long, former Ram. He got by the RT and was able to hit Jared Goff from behind, knocking the ball loose. Rodney McLeod recovered it and had the Eagles in FG range. The Eagles took the 37-35 lead.
The Rams got the ball back, but went 3 & out, not even gaining a yard. The Eagles were able to almost run out the clock after getting a key 3rd down conversion from Nick Foles to Nelson Agholor. The Eagles sealed the game with Brandon Graham’s defensive TD.
There were a lot of heroes in the game. Doug Pederson went back to being aggressive and that paid off in a big way. Foles made some clutch throws. Torrey Smith had his best game of the year, going 6-100. Agholor made some clutch grabs. Trey Burton and Brent Celek combined for 3 TD catches, more than making up for the absence of Zach Ertz. Jake Elliott hit some clutch FGs. Long’s strip sack might have been the play of the game. Fletcher Cox got pressure on the final Rams offensive series.
Oh yeah…and that Wentz guy was pretty good.
Remember that the Rams were the #1 team in the league according to Football Outsiders DVOA rankings. They are a complete team. They have playmakers all over the place. There is no shame in having that team make some plays on you. The run defense was leaky, but Todd Gurley is a big reason why. He looked great on Sunday. You can see that he’s a special player. Goff is making his case to be a Pro Bowl QB. The Rams have an outstanding front seven.
That really was a big time win.
Now go back to praying. Or make a sacrifice to the Football Gods. Or build a time machine and go back to yesterday and tell Carson to just throw the ball away.
_
it’s like waking up from a drunken stupor and praying a fuzzy memory from the night before didn’t happen….
The dreaded “Oh-no’s”
Hey man… about last night… I really don’t think the cartel minds about sparkles…
That feeling when you 1st wake up then a few seconds later you’re like fuck.
All Of our collective hoping didn’t work
Scouring the streets of Philly for a virgin to sacrifice to the football gods. So far, no luck.
Maybe you could read the entrails of our expectations to figure out where to look.
dude, poetic!
Ohh Snapppppp!!! MIght need to head out to the suburbs…
We could sacrifice Kempski?
Plenty of other media guys have to go before Kempski
The Football Gods will not be placated by the sacrifice of a mere ESP or Matt Lombardo.
This is a big one. Anything less than Megan Fox or the global supply of chocolate pudding would be insufficient and blasphemous.
Where’s Megan living these days, Tommy?
Throw in Marcus Hayes please.
And McLane.
Who said it had to be for the Football Gods? Whatever Belichick worships seems ok to me at this point.
Having slept on it, I am slightly more optimistic about our chances to still make a run than I was last night.
Obviously losing Wentz is a huge blow. There’s no getting around that. You don’t just replace a league MVP-caliber quarterback.
However, the rest of this team is pretty solid, and they have to the tools to win the Giants did when they won the SB in 2007 – with a run oriented offense, a playmaking defense, and a game manager who doesn’t make mistakes playing QB. Foles has proven that when surrounded by a good cast and not relied on to do too much, he can be a competent starting quarterback in the NFL. The rest of the team will need to step up their game, but I think he can get us 20-24 points a game even against playoff opponents. If our defense comes to play in January we could squeak through.
Need entire team to step up. They have the talent to do so…
https://twitter.com/Jeff_McLane/status/940230637432209408
I lost it when Jeff said go follow someone else.
He is such as ass.
Reporters should be objective and relay even unpleasant facts about the team, but McLane seems to have a specific shit-stirring agenda powered by his desire to generate clicks and page views. The stuff about players not respecting Pederson and Schwartz plotting a locker room coup was so clearly nonsense, and I have no idea why his editors let him run it.
Ok so a caller called into wip crying, not sure if he was real but if you think about it….Wentz is gone and this possibly hurts next year. Who knows what kind of team we’ll be when he comes back. Remember though he had been injured in college and his team didn’t skip a beat and he did end up coming back better than ever. I don’t know what I’m trying to say right now so whatever, guess I’ll cry now.
Find that rainbow in the clouds…
Actually literally crying over this is ridiculous.
It sucks, but it’s just a game. It’s just entertainment, ultimately. Nobody died. Nobody’s life was ruined in an irreparable way.
Perspective, people.
I’m going to go ahead and guess that there’s more going on in that person’s life than just football. For some people this game means more to them emotionally than just entertainment.
I would suggest those people are perhaps not emotionally healthy individuals then.
Health, safety, love, friendship, the well-being of your spouse and kids – these are things worth crying about losing.
The outcome of a sporting event, no.
John on BGN was sobbing during the post-game show yesterday.
#Trusttheprogress
https://twitter.com/SheilKapadia/status/940025591008411648
Simply Amazing!
Lots of green in the stands. Eagles fans were loud all day!
I was at the game yesterday. Easily 60/40 Birds fans. Crowd seemed to be cheering at all the wrong times. It was glorious. Same thing when the Chargers and Eagles played, and there’s a good chance the Eagles come back to LA next year. Super stoked; reminded me a lot of when the Phillies came to SD for a four game stretch and I got to watch Cliff Lee, Doc, Hamels and KK pitch.
It was an amazing game. Exciting and stressful and magical. To see Wentz just dominate after that first series was awe-inspiring and gives me hope for our future. And then to see Foles come on the field and lead the team down to that FG, it was truly bittersweet.
That said, it was depressing as hell after the game. There was one Rams fan on the train after the game and he caught a lot of shit from the Eagles fans.
Hopefully…. the Legend of Nicky Foles continues to grow.
Wow. That is at an “away” game!
With the exception of the obvious, it was one of the greatest games I’ve seen. My son (8) kept asking why the fight song wasn’t playing on the stadium sound system. When I reminded him it was an away game, he looked at me like I was crazy. The funniest part though was when the stadium speakers would blast ‘who’s house?!?!’ to almost no response. Or when they would try to pump the crowd up by flashing ‘LOUDER!’ on the stadium displays and you could hear a pin drop. The last 5 minutes was amazing though. The rams a fans in attendance looked helpless and perplexed and I think Goff had to go to a silent count in his home stadium. Just beautiful.
Well, I see the problem. It should have read, “Whose House?” Darn illiterates!
Any word on how Wiz is doing?
How’s the ankle?
What’s he looking like for next week?
I just want him ready for the playoffs. Put in Seumalo
Did Foles murder your dog or something?
We need Wiz back.
We can survive with an average player like Vaitai in the lineup. But Seumalo and Warmack are what actual OL liabilities look like and they will ruin our season if we have to play them.
“So the Eagles have a history of overcoming the loss of irreplaceable players. This version of the team has the tools to do it: a great defense (though it took some lumps on Sunday), a strong running game, even a backup quarterback in Foles who has led the team to the postseason before. Remember: One of the NFL’s other top teams is currently quarterbacked by Case Keenum. Anything is possible.
Those old McNabb and T.O. stories don’t end in Super Bowl victories. No Eagles story has ever ended in a Super Bowl victory. But they often end with the Eagles persevering through adversity and exceeding expectations. For now, that will have to do.
Enjoy the playoff berth as much as you can, Eagles fans. And don’t give up hope, because the Eagles themselves never do.”
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748577-monday-morning-digest-eagles-lose-wentz-but-not-hope
People have been fluffing the Vikings all season long, ignoring the fact that they are playing a quarterback who was essentially their 3rd choice to play the position and whose resume is no more distinguished than Foles’.
If they’re still a contender with Keenum, so are we with Foles.
I like Foles, but his lack of mobility scares me. It’s a big reason Wentz has been able to overcome the loss off Peters imo. We keep saying Vaitai has been holding his own but in reality that Wentz spin move has helped Vai big time.
I don’t really agree with that assessment.. half the time Wentz gets into trouble with the pass rush, it’s because he holds onto the ball so long waiting for a chance to make a play, and the guys he’s dodging aren’t always coming in from his left.
Vaitai has gotten beaten at times for sure, and needs help against elite pass rushers. But if you watch him on every pass play, more often than not he holds his own. He stoned Robert Quinn for most of the game yesterday, and people focus on the one sack he did give up (which was as much or more on Warmack as on him).
Foles will have to make smart decisions and get the ball out quicker than Carson did, so we’re undoubtedly going to lose some of the big play strike capability of our offense to this point. But I think we’ll still have a competent offense, if not a dominant one.
Good point, but Wentz also is probably holding the ball because no one is open. Most qbs can’t hang in there like he can to make up for that. I mean if a QB is holding the ball, a QB like Wentz who can see the field, doesn’t that tell you no one is open? That won’t work out too well for Foles.
I don’t know if it’s lack of guys who are open, or that on the slower developing plays with multiple reads Wentz always thinks big play first and doesn’t take the shorter throws even if they are open because he wants to see if he can hit a guy deep. He’s as averse to checkdown throws as Bradford was fond of them.
Foles also has a tendency to hold on to the ball, and we saw that last night.
I am convinced that if Keenum breaks every NFL record and wins the next 30 SBs as a starter, people will still call him not a good QB.
I don’t think it’s that he’s not good so much as that he’s limited. Doesn’t have the talent to be an elite NFL QB. But he is clearly good enough to win with given the right circumstances. Poor man’s Jeff Garcia.
Yeah probably. But then what’s the point of everybody “asterisking” him every single time he’s mentioned? It’s becoming a pet peeve of mine.
This sucks, but we (or at least I) can still try to enjoy the ride. The Eagles are playing meaningful games at the end of the season and hosting at least one playoff game. They have a good chance of getting a bye. It’s fun to get hyped up in the playoffs and hope they can pull out each game they get to play in. It will come to an end at some point and probably will not end in a Super Bowl win (even though it is possible), but we can keep cheering and enjoying each game until then.
So if I expect a Super Bowl birth than they will exceed my expectations….
You have a deal
OT: “And for Bills special-teamer/receiver/emergency quarterback Joe Webb, playing in a constantly-shaken snow globe became the ultimate test in rolling the dice hoping for the best.
“There’s no way to prepare for it,” Webb told PFT by phone on Sunday after the 13-7 overtime win.”
Joe Webb FTW.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/11/joe-webb-no-way-to-prepare-for-playing-in-snow/
Shah dropped in yesterday just to brag about Joe Webb.
Every dog has his day I suppose.
So he thought that we were envious because we only have Wentz?
Ohh Lordy…its a Joe Webb article…GOAT baby…been riding that win against us when he played for the Vikings…amazing how the guy has stuck in the league between Minnesota, Carolina and now the Bills…
Im still amazed by Agholor’s development.
He’s got pretty live feet out there, and he seems to have had a hands transplant.
I think he was just struggling with confidence last year. Purely mental issues. If you go back and watch his USC tape, he looks like a good NFL receiver.
I think Chip broke him and it took time to regain that confidence. Similar story with Kendricks.
I suspect that is a part of it. Chip’s stench still lingers on, but kudos to Doug, Howie, and Joe for cleaning it up this much so fast.
I feel like Im starting to sound like a certain NFCE rival
“We are gonna be so stacked next year, with our whole core coming back and (Insert rookies)”
I have similar thoughts but I don’t think that’s similar to what that other team’s fans did. False equivalency. But I’m biased of course.
Seriously if it was a the start of the season then ok it’s over but we need to play 3 games at most that matter. 3 Games. Any Given Sunday.
People need to understand this. Let reason prevail over emotion pls:
https://twitter.com/JoeBanner13/status/940255474737467392
It’s going back a while, but for 3 straight seasons from 1999-2001 the Super Bowl winner started a QB who was not the intended starter going into the season:
1999 – Rams (Kurt Warner)
2000 – Ravens (Trent Dilfer)
2001 – Patriots (Tom Brady)
It’s not at all likely that the Eagles can win with Foles, but not necessarily impossible.
Go back to Hostetler for Phil Simms…different time and playing style but it happened…
This defense is good but isn’t going to carry them like the 1990 Giants’ defense did including against a historically great offense (Bills K-gun Attack).
Don’t have an LT and the signature group (Eagles DL vs Giants LBs which featured Banks, LT, Johnson, DeOssie) was better
In today’s game…no defense can do that anymore…
Yeah people tend to go overboard with the negative hot takes in the wake of something like this.
Ugh.
“This Eagles defense has arguably the best defensive front in the game, a secondary getting healthier, and a run game that has been built to be deep and productive at key times. Wentz was the glue holding it all together, but he has been put in fantastic position to succeed by the scheme this season. That same scheme should work to the strengths of Foles as well, and so the drop off from Wentz to his backup may not be as precipitous as Eagles’ fans fear.”
https://twitter.com/PFF_Philly/status/940254832430108672
missed the threads last night, so I’ll just say I know it’s just sports but this stinks. I’d say our chances of winning the SB just dropped to say 1/3rd of whatever they would have been. Even with its place in the world, it’s still really disappointing.
Man…that drive with Foles that got us a FG to get it to 34 to 35…you could see that the RB and everyone were stepping it up to make plays happen…I remember the Ajayi run and Kelce was on #50 leaning and scrapping for every yard…that game was like a playoff game…incredible atmosphere…please lord may this not be a terrible ACL…we have suffered enough as Eagles fans…make it so for us…#praying…
so what time will we hear? soon?
Pederson will speak at Noon!
We are not without hope, regardless of the MRI:
https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/940258889299382274
Even if the Wentz -> Foles swap drops us from the best in the NFL by these metrics to the 10th best, we still have a pretty good team.
:'(. Doug confirms, Torn ACL.
downvote
So now that we have a confirmed diagnosis, what do they do for a backup QB?
If Foles gets hurt, I’m not thrilled about the idea of playing Nate Sudfeld in a playoff game.
Who cares. We’re not winning it this year anyway. If Foles goes down we screwed even more
Too negative. The chances are lower now but they’re not zero.
They still have to plan to maximize their chances to win this year.
our hopes are on life-support if not completely dead as is, if Nick Foles goes down too, it’s over, move past all the rest of the stages of grief and get to acceptance at that point.
Too negative. See below.
here you go, meet you at the end
https://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/
Fair enough.
I ain’t got time for grief though. 😉
Kapernick? Then we watch the sports world burn with hot takes!
If it was earlier in the season, I could see that. Not sure about bringing in a guy who hasn’t played football in almost a full year though.
What would be hilarious is if we signed Romo out of the TV booth, we got to the SB with Foles, he got hurt, then Romo came in off the bench and won it all for us.. I think the entire city of Dallas would melt into the ground.
For football it may not make sense, but for entertainment it would. You are right though that Romo would be even more funny because of the reaction in Dallas and also because he would leave CBS hanging with 3 weeks to go in the regular season.
I so want this to happen. I could totally see Romo pulling off a couple sweet plays FTW.
I think Romo is still technically under contract with the Cowboys in some form or another.
Boy do I hate those three damned letters.
NFL?
DUI?
Watching Doug’s press conference I’m struck by how much his handling of the media has improved since his introductory PC.
I’ll eat crow on Doug’s public speaking, given the master class he gave today. Saying essentially nothing.
Yup, he’s mastered coach speak. He even managed a touch of Belichickian annoyance when somebody asked him a stupid, obvious question.
Well, there’s that.
So any medical knowledge regarding a potential time when Wentz comebacks?
No special medical knowledge, but it’s a torn ACL. Season ending injury, generally an 8-12 month recovery. Best case scenario is he’s back for training camp, but it’s more likely he won’t be ready until the regular season at the earliest. Once he does come back he’ll have to regain confidence in his knee. But it shouldn’t affect him over the long term.
Thanks for the insight.
unfortunately we’ll have to cross our fingers about the long term. After one ACL repair athletes are much more likely to rerupture the same knee (I saw a study that showed 6x more likelihood of 2nd injury after reconstruction) – as happened to Sam Bradford, and even with his “full” recoveries he still has knee troubles that have taken him off the field. Then there’s the increased probability of tearing the OTHER ACL (contralateral injury) like Deshaun Watson did earlier this year. So while barring setback Wentz could be back to normal in 2 years, he’s still more vulnerable than before.
I think that’s less likely to be the case for a QB than for a player at another position who more regularly places torque on his knees.
Even a QB who scrambles quite a bit like Wentz does doesn’t place his knee in nearly as many high stress situations as a RB,CB, OL, etc.
Strange, when we got Bradford there were medical articles that stated there is not an increased chance of tearing the same knee. Stating that the tendons actually repair somewhat stronger.
Don’t get excited about this team until the 2019/2020 season
Dammit I posted in the wrong article. Also I hate that ACLs are a thing.
Sports are dumb.
Did you guys hear? Sidney Jones is returning to practice this week! What great news on the injury front!
I’ll be surprised if he plays this season, but if he’s fully healthy they should consider it. Anything they can do that would move this defense from “good and occasionally dominant” toward “historically overwhelming” would be helpful to executing the Hostetler Super Bowl Championship plan.
Yeah, I was going for fake cheer and optimism while ignoring the other more significant injury new.
I figured. But Pederson’s right, the team can’t afford to wallow in misery or feel sorry for itself, they have a game to win on Sunday.
As fans I feel like we should have a similar attitude.. this was a terrible stroke of luck but there’s no sense in letting it ruin our enjoyment of the rest of the season. Just watch the games, root for the team, and let the chips fall where they may.
Yep. I agree with you 100%.
can he play QB?
What is the normal recovery time for an ACL? 6 months to be mobile 8 months to fully back?
Seems optimistic to me.
If Wentz is ready for training camp in July that would be very good news.
Yeah people are now saying more like 9-12 months for full health on twitter. FUCK
“Full health” means back to 100% pre-injury athleticism.. I think that is more critical for positions like CB and WR where speed and cutting ability are vital than it is at QB. I’m no orthopedist but my understanding is that the joint usually regains structural integrity before full explosiveness is regained so Wentz should be able to resume football activities and be effective more quickly than a guy at another position would. Still, though, he will miss the entire offseason at least.
Yip 6-9months full recovery. If max 9 he be back just before season. That be alot of rust to get rid of.
If we win a single game more, we are guaranteed the #2 seed. If MIN loses any of the rest of their games, and we win only one, we clinch the #1 seed.
Don’t know about you guys, but I still believe in this team.
Yeah people are forgetting that Foles played well enough here in 2013 that we were debating whether or not he was a franchise QB.. he wasn’t as good in 2014, but still went 6-2, and while he stunk it up with the Rams, so did Goff and Keenum playing under that awful coaching staff. He played in 3 games for KC last season and had a 65.5% completion percentage, 410 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, and a 105.9 QB rating. His career QB rating is 88.1. When competently coached he’s been a competent NFL QB.
Yeah i think he is being somewhat underrated by people, he’s as good as you can hope for as a backup.
The Ravens won with Flacco
Yeah, but he was actually really good. Then.
Just for the playoffs that year. Chuck it to Boldin.
It was like he was using a cheat code.
More like Boldin was because some of those throws weren’t even that good by 50/50 ball standards.
If this team wins a playoff game then you really have to be amazed with the whole organization considering the quantity and caliber of players we have lost.
If MIN loses to the Bengals and wins the rest and we lose to the Giants and Cowboys and beat the Raiders, I think MIN would have the tie-breaker because of conference record (2 losses for MIN / 3 losses for us). Any other combination of a MIN loss and/or Philly win and you are right.
I too still believe in this team.
I’m fascinated to see what happens the next few games. They looked totally winnable before, but does losing CW drop up to an average team? In that case, we could easily drop 2 or 3 of the remaining games and be 1-and-done. Esp. with all the injuries we’ve already sustained.
But if we win 2 of 3, all bets are off. Who knows at that point.
I think we’re an above average team even without Wentz. Foles has proven capable of league average level QB play, and our line, running game, and defense (the last of which is largely independent of Wentz) have all been above average by measures which adjust for situation and quality of opponent such as DVOA.
“Above average” doesn’t mean dominant of course, and I think over the course of an entire season a team with this personnel and Foles as the QB is more likely a 9-7/10-6 narrow playoff miss/WC round roadkill type of team than a serious contender, but a team like that should be favored to take 2 out of 3 against NYG, OAK, and DAL (and is capable of making noise in the playoffs if it gets hot at the right time – see recent championships by the Giants and Ravens in which they were that kind of team).
I don’t even like football, i just hate Philly fans
-God-
Sure you’re not actually the Devil!?
-an atheist-
the way Wentz has been playing all year and the fact that he is “a good guy” made me believe he himself may be the Anti-Christ lol
Lol
I want to punt a baby right now
I know there is a lot of sadness and sorrow today, but as I think about the immediate future and contingency plans. I think we need a proven QB in case we lose Foles. I can put faith in Nick, if we have to turn to Nate Sudfeld, we are officially done. Enter Colin Kapernick. I don’t want him to start in place of Foles, but if we are down to our last resort, I would rather have Kapernick to turn to, before Sudfeld. All the team has to do is beat the Giants, Raiders, and the Cowboys to clinch home field. In the playoffs, we need to have every resource possible.
They don’t need to beat all those teams, only one, really. Two to clinch #1 seed.
I was just thinking in terms of not needing any help. Not to mention, riding momentum and all…
If MIN loses one game, and we win one game, we clinch the #1 seed. No help needed.
Assuming that win is against the Giants or Cowboys or Minnesota’s loss is to the Packers or Bears, so our conference record doesn’t dip below Minnesota’s.
Also, relying on MIN to lose a game is an example of help needed.
If we win two of the next three we get home field – no help needed.
I’ve never seen Sudfeld really play, so I don’t know about that. It has been years since Kaepernick has been a productive QB in the NFL, and he wouldn’t know the system at all. At least Sudfeld has been in the system all year. Only the coaches really know if he’s capable of playing in a pinch. Unsure if they will sign another QB or use Wentz’ roster spot to bring back Jones.
We actually just need two wins to clinch home field. One to clinch a bye.
Mentally checked out and numb.
I’ll talk to you guys next summer.
You are still going to watch and root for the Eagles. No?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/Barnwellx171211/nine-questions-answers-carson-wentz-knee-injury-super-bowl-lii-chances-philadelphia-eagles-more-nfl-2017
Great article recapping Wentz’s injury and broader questions associated with it. Key takeaway for Eagles’ fans:
“Throwing out those two outlier campaigns, Foles has gone 387-for-635 (60.9 percent) for 4,328 passing yards with 22 touchdowns and 15 picks. That’s good for a passer rating of 83.0. The closest 2017 comps to Foles’ career numbers would be Andy Dalton and Blake Bortles. I realize going from Wentz to Dalton might not particularly excite Eagles fans, but it could certainly be worse.”
Can you win a SB with Andy Dalton?
I think you need your defense and running game to carry you, but it’s not impossible. Worse quarterbacks have done it. Hostetler, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, etc.
Eli Manning twice. 🙂
You kid, but Eli really wasn’t great in either of those SB runs.
He didn’t turn the ball over, and made a couple of HUGE plays over the course of each of them, but he wasn’t exactly tearing it up.
Hopefully Foles can replicate that performance.
Superbowl? You can’t win a playoff game with Andy Dalton.
“The injury doesn’t change Wentz’s long-term outlook. He looks like a franchise quarterback, and an ACL tear, while frustrating, shouldn’t change that. As tough as the physical pain might be, though, the mental and emotional pain might be worse. The Eagles look well-equipped to compete for the next decade, and there’s no guarantee they would have made it to the Super Bowl with Wentz, but this might go down as the best shot of his career.
Think of Dan Marino, who set NFL records during an MVP campaign in his second season on a 14-2 Dolphins team. The Dolphins lost in the Super Bowl, but with Marino and Don Shula, we would have figured Marino & Co. to make multiple deep postseason runs. Instead, Marino went 7-9 in the playoffs the rest of the way, and the Dolphins failed to make another Super Bowl during the rest of their star quarterback’s career. Even for wildly talented quarterbacks, just about everything has to go right for teams to advance to the Super Bowl. Even though Philadelphia won Sunday, we might look back on it as a day when things stopped going right for the Eagles and their superstar quarterback.”
Recap of the ESPN article I linked to and kind of how I feel. The window was there this year even with how competitive the NFC East was and now it is closed for at least this year.
Yeah, I just don’t see us having another season in which the stars align so perfectly again.
Maybe I’m missing something here, but how is it possible to argue that a season in which we lose 3 of the best 5 players on our opening day roster, as well as our ST captain, kicker, and best return man/receiving RB, is one in which the “stars align perfectly”?
The team has had worse than average injury luck and has been good enough to overcome it. That’s not the stars aligning.
Agreed, we should be able to come back again next year when i think we have 20/22 starters coming back and a group of corners who should have a big step forward in 2018 just due to being 2nd year in league/system.
Will there be some new holes in the roster? we will probably loose a lot of TE and Safety Depth, and probably wont be able to retain Bradham and/or Kendricks, as well as some nice depth/role guys… but that is stuff a good front office can find cheap in free agency and in the draft, like they have the last 2 years.
The truth is that luck always plays into any championship season, in the NFL more than in any other sport due to football’s high injury rate, and we don’t know what kind of luck we’ll have next year – it could be bad again and sabotage another run.
However, it is absolutely not the case that we have benefited from particularly good injury luck this season (unlike, say, the 2016 Cowboys). Therefore there’s no reason we should expect an injury-related regression to the mean next season – we’re already at the mean this year in terms of injury luck, if not below.
Very true. I just meant outside the organization the stars aligned in many ways. You are correct on internal organization blowups that the FO and particularly coaching staff handled amazingly.
Somber.
Foles isn’t chopped liver but this takes us from super bowl contender to dark horse.
That is the reality. I understand people don’t care about reality at the moment, they need time to vent, but that is the truth.
We are in the playoffs. Worst case, we play at home week 1.
If we beat a very beatable Giants team we get a bye week 1 and home week 2.
If we also beat a very beatable Oakland team (anyone have any idea how Foles does against Oakland?) we likely have home field throughout.
Hell, we might still be favored in some playoff game.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say “dark horse”.
The consensus among the stat geeks and oddsmakers seems to be that this brings us back to the pack with the Rams, Vikings, and Saints, which seems about right to me. Even with Foles at QB, this team will have to lose at home with a running game and defense built for the playoffs if we can secure the #1 seed.
Hm, don’t agree with that. Last night was the DVOA bowl, between two #1 teams (Rams and Eagles were essentially tied). You take a franchise QB out of that equation and we don’t fall back to the pack, we fall out of it.
I still think they have a chance, but the rest of the team’s going to have to come to play.
Aaron Schatz himself – one of the inventors of DVOA – still favors the Eagles to win the NFC:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21733829/are-minnesota-vikings-new-orleans-saints-nfc-playoff-2017-favorite-carson-wentz-philadelphia-eagles-injury-nfl-insiders-react
His take seems to be that having HFA, with our opponents being either dome or warm weather teams, is a significant advantage which will make up for what will be an undeniable drop in quality of play.
Seems reasonable to me. I agree with you 100% that on a neutral field we’re an underdog against any of the Rams, Saints, or Vikings (and maybe the Panthers/Falcons/Seahawks as well), but thankfully we won’t be playing on a neutral field.
The only thing that’s made me smile so far today are all the phallic nicknames people come up with for Nick Foles. I saw a few today I hadn’t seen before and they’re pretty clever.
How about this: if we beat NY and OAK and MIN loses a game, we can rest Foles against Dallas and let Sudfeld end Dallas’ season.
I believe we clinch home field advantage if we beat NYG and OAk, regardless of whether MIN loses or not.
After head-to-head (which doesn’t apply to us and MIN), the tie-breaker goes to conference record. If we beat NYG, that assures we will have no worse than 2 conference losses, which is the same as MIN. The tie-breaker than goes to win/loss percentage against common opponents, and because MIN lost to CAR, we would have that tie-breaker.
Yeah, that sounds right.
I do like the idea of Sudfield starting the final game and ending Dallas’ season!
Could we borrow Aaron Rodgers for, say, 6 games? We’ll give him back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zLfCnGVeL4
A masterpiece of music.
Okay, so as a distraction…fantasy
I mentioned that I traded away Cam earlier in the season. It served me well. I went 12-1 and will easily win the playoff game this week. But now I have Brett Hundley as my only QB. I picked up Foles last night. Anyone on this list you would start over Foles next two weeks?
(These are the only guys with projected stats in a 14-team league where everyone has a backup rostered.)
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/36db8e851d8ba91f97c8a02acfa366ef41ef074af8591850cd78cd962d5b620b.png
It’s a close call between Foles and Winston for me.
Yeah, I looked and said, “Winston, how is he available?”
He has 52 turnovers in 42 games, is fighting with his coach, and complaining about his team. That’s how.
It is close.
Yeah, he has not been very good and that team is a mess, but he put up ok fantasy numbers the last two weeks. I like Foles match up better, but I’m not sure what to expect.
Your attempt at distraction via fantasy football has failed. I had Carson Wentz in fantasy and was doing quite well with him. Way to keep kicking a man when he’s down.
He is the reason I am scrambling now. I left that fact out on purpose.
I guess Bortles is your best bet if he’s available. Other than that, Foles is your best choice (with a tiny chance of Kizer being viable).
Ew no
Lack of faith in the RaInMAKer? Tsk.
Take 29-2, (2 td in NO playoff loss)
Would like to apologise to eagles nation. This was my fault. I couldn’t stop talking shit to Redskins fans and Giants fans, I was warned karma would get me but I didn’t listen.
Good thing is we only need to win two games to get to sb. I think that’s reasonable, right?
I thought it was my fault for being Negadelphian and just knowing injury would eventually strike? 😉
why not both?
I was remembering your “doomed” comment. My challenge to it was whistling in the cemetery.
If word gets out about you, you’re going to need to go into the FBI’s witness protection program.
Hopefully he can come up with a name that conveys a generic identity and attempts to keep his real identity unknown …
I feel like I did my part. After losing Aaron Rodgers in one fantasy league and Deshaun Watson another, I turned down a chance to trade for Wentz because I didn’t wanted my fantasy QB curse to affect him. I guess it didn’t work.
I still say we sign Tony Romo, just so we get to see the meltdown of Cowboys fans everywhere.
Only if he continues to commentate from the field, I’m not having Phil Simms sneaking back in.
Silver lining: after Foles carries us to the Lombardi Trophy, albeit by a slightly smaller average margin of victory than Wentz would’ve, we can trade him to the Browns for multiple first round picks.
Buzz Bizzinger’s head would explode ala Screamers if that happens
Did you mean Scanners?
All kidding aside, all Foles has to do is win us 1 playoff game and look good doing it, and he’s worth at least a 3rd. Maybe. Hopefully. That would be some crazy Howie magic if it worked out like that.
Nick Foles + 2nd -> Sam Bradford -> 1st + 4th (Barnett + Ajayi)
THEN
Nick Foles -> 3rd
What would he be worth if he won it all?
Quarterback controversy!!!
It’s all part of the plan to trade for picks to use to get Mariota
Saw the Tom Savage hit and seizure. Wow! Someone heads needs to roll for letting that man back in the game.
That kind of play makes me hesitant about continuing to be a football fan, honestly.
how they don’t have someone in a booth with authority to call down to the neutral medical person and say here watch this, is nuts. This “no one saw it” can be solved so freakin easily.
Yip. NRL have guys upstairs watching the game. They make a call down to the refs that they want this guy off n he has to pass an independent doctors concussion test. NRL makes a fraction of what the NFL does but NFL are light years behind lesser sports when comes to money but bigger sports world wide.
Looking forward…
1.) Foles is not afraid to throw the ball in tight windows and downfield. As long as he keeps Alshon and Ertz has his main targets, his passing should be fine.
2.) Duce and Doug need to lean on Ajayi as a lead RB with Clement in on obvious passing downs.
3.) The defense’s tackling ability has declined the past 2 weeks. This seems to be correctable. Jalen Mills has played the run aggressive all season but his unwillingness to help tackle Gurely on his last TD is alarming. They kept showing the slow-motion on TV and I was dumbfounded how he pulled up instead of trying to stop the TD.
4.) Kupp exposed man our coverage of slot receivers. He was being chased all day and no CB seemed to be able to stick to him on short crossing routes or when he was put in motion behind the line.
If the defense can shore up their tackling deficiencies and the offense feeds the balls more often to Ajayi, we still have a fighting chance.
Ajayi can catch the ball. If taking him out for Clement is a tell, at some point I hope DP leaves him in and calls a pass. He looked pretty natural catching the ball at BSU.
What was more alarming was that McLeod couldn’t even keep up with Kupp on that long catch and run. Kupp is not fast at all and McLeod was like 2 steps behind him.
Kupp is a wide receiver, McLeod is a safety – my guess is that 90% of NFL WRs are probably faster than 90% of safeties.
No? Also even if that was true, Kupp is in that 10% and McLeod would be in the 1% if you want to apply your false narrative.
Wrong.
Kupp 40 time: 4.56
http://goeags.com/news/2017/3/28/football-annual-pro-day-features-six-eagles-including-kupp.aspx
McLeod 40 time: 4.60
http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2016/03/eagles_sign_safety_rodney_mcleod_5_things_to_know.html
Not a huge difference but Kupp is in fact faster.
Lets again follow your narrative, pro days are a a joke for 40 times.
Kupp 4.56s
McLeod 4.6s
You do not get beat that badly by .4s.
That’s literally a step.
But football isn’t normally a North and south footrace. Most safeties are going to loose one on one vs a WRs. That’s the main reason why they arent CBs.
He was also beat vs Baldwin last week. McCleod is at his best blitzing or playing single high; not covering the slot Wr.
Yes but again no. Kupp ran 4.62 at the combine. No clue what McLeod would officially run but somewhere in the same ballpark isn’t out of the ordinary.
He has never been a center fielder but you can’t look that bad against a slow rookie that didn’t even run an amazing route.
You need to let go of 40 times. There’s more to route running and covering a guy than who runs the faster 40.
And McLeod played center with the Rams. He’s also played there most of this year. He isn’t a (pre injury) honey badger that can cover WRs.
He also tried to undercut the route and missed.
I didn’t even bring it up. Xeynon did.
I highly doubt that he tried to undercut. He got beat on a free release and plodded his way to Kupp. Do I need to mention that Kupp rounded his route too? I would understand if you get beat by a great cut on a corner route but that did not happen.
Easy fix. Stop making McLeod cover Wrs one on one. He’s not good at it.
We have Douglas, Mills, Darby and Robinson.
Tell Gym Shorts that.
If you want to get into other measures of quickness/agility, Kupp is definitely more athletic than McLeod. There’s a reason McLeod is a S and not a CB. He’s not good enough in coverage. Asking any safety short of the All-Pro types like Dawkins or Mathieu to stick with a WR in man coverage is asking for trouble, and if that happens and turns into a big play for the offense, it’s on the coaches, not the defender. You can’t put guys in positions where they have to do things they’re not good at doing.
You’re pretending like Kupp is Julio Jones or something.
A safety on Julio Jones is an even bigger mismatch obviously but Kupp isn’t chopped liver. He was a high draft pick for a reason and he’s been a very productive player in his rookie year for a reason. He’s not a guy you want to try to cover with a safety either.
You wouldn’t put any good safety on a rookie possession WR that has issues getting separation. Ok.
If you’re a smart defensive coordinator, no you wouldn’t. Getting separation on a corner and getting separation on a safety are two different things, and any decent NFL receiver (which Kupp is) will be able to do the latter on any safety who’s anything less than elite (which McLeod isn’t). There’s a reason offensive coordinators scheme to get WRs matched up on safeties and why good QBs salivate when they see that matchup.
FFS. This isn’t hard.
🙂
https://giphy.com/gifs/dancing-shark-forum-igR5863TALcSk/tile
Kupp had a good 3-cone and 20-yard shuttle. He is is a bigger, quicker version of Wes Weller.
McLeod isn’t catching any WR from behind.
Our DBs were always a step behind on the crossing routes when they played him tight on the line of scrimmage. When they played off, they tended to get lost in traffic.
No? Kupp is what Matthews wanted to be.
Which is sad because Kupp is easily in the bottom half percentile of athleticism in the league. You could have fit Fletcher Cox in between Kupp and McLeod on that play.
Dunno, Kupp was in the 80th % for the 3-cone and 20 yard shuttle. Mathews was in the 45th and 56th % respectively. Mathews had a great 40 time and was mediocre everywhere else. Kupp was just the opposite.
Yet he’s still in the 40th percentile compared to the rest of the league. The tape has never backed up his 3 cone or 20 yard shuttle.
You have to believe that some of the players are already getting tired of hearing that they have no chance in hell now. These guys tend to be pretty prideful (egotistical) in their abilities. I’m actually expecting a pretty inspired effort against NY.
The flip side of that is beating the Eagles at this stage when jobs are on the line and the interim HC wants to make a good impression…I expect NY to throw everything they have at us.
Rams had 43 plays – and scored 35 points(yes I know – blocked punt) – but still…Was Eagles DC even at the game? (kidding) Numbers are silly when you start looking at them…18 combined (targets/rushes) plays for Gurley. Almost 1/2 of all the plays to 1 guy and he was still a beast…
2 weeks in a row Schwartz come out with bad D plan. Noticed the DEs were slanting in alot. Gurley gashing them outside. 2 bad dropped picks by Bradham could have made the D look better. Eagles are getting beat alot playing man coverage. McLeod on Kupp was a big mismatch.
I thought we played some exceptional D (against a great offence) in the 1st half and 4th quarter. We did some horrible tackling and angles in the 3rd that really let the Rams offence take over the game. Not sure that is on the DC, he cannot game plan for missed tackles (that we have made all year), or for our secondary to seemingly lose the ability to actually take angles that didn’t run them out of the play against Gurley.
I can go with bad angles coz i did see alot of them. But angles can be limited by position of player. Playcalls can put players in better position. I do think Gurley speed caught alot of players out. Cox even said he one of the best backs he played in his career. Another thing i have noticed with the decline of the D is having Bradham moved to MLB. Could be a coincidence the D hasnt been that stout with Walker out forcing Eagles to play big nickle packages.
I blame the defense’s performance more on execution than on Schwartz’s game plan, honestly.
He seems like he mixed up his coverages decently against Goff, we just had a ton of blown coverages/missed tackles, which fall on the players. And Todd Gurley is a monster – he’s going to be tough for any defense to stop.
Thing is thats 2 weeks in a row now. Teams are slowly gaining ground in the run game on us. Big nickle package could be a factor in that. Watching that game i didnt get that feel like we could stop them. Rams were flowing to easy on us. Execution i can understand a few times. Multiple times not so much. Il be kind and says its a mixture lol Either way has to be cleaned up.
Two weeks in a row, yes – but both games on the road, against two of the best quarterbacks the Eagles have faced this season.
I don’t think that’s a coincidence, and I don’t think Schwartz suddenly being a bad coach is what explains the dropoff.
Woah woah now lol No way im putting Goff into one of the best QBs in the NFL. Dont go from bust to best in 1 season lol Those 2 dropped passes from Bradham would have shut alot of talk about Goff being that good.
Wilson gameplan im gonna call that game on Schwartz scheme n playcalling. Already mentioned it before about mush rushing Wilson n playing zone in the backend. No use playing full tilt up front n man in the back when Wilson ability to drop back further than the rush n being able to pass to receivers beating their man cause of the extra time Wilson gives them negated Eagles DL advantage. Thats all Schwartz.
Im not calling Schwartz a bad coach. Just saying things need to be cleaned up. Schwartz did same thing last year too lets not forget. He doesnt adjust on the fly. Like the gameplan is premeditated which most are but no adjustments.
I didn’t say he’s one of the best in the NFL, but he is one of the best we’ve faced this year.
You’ve got Wilson as the clear #1, then I’d say Rivers, then after that I’d say I don’t see anybody better than Goff has been this season. Maybe Cousins, maybe Alex Smith (against both of whom our defense also had some of its worse games of the season). Definitely not Osweiler, Trubisky, Beathard, etc.
Ah yeah i hear ya man. Agree with how you ranked them too with who we have faced.
Yeah, but the rise of Goff most likely caught Schwartz’s attention. LA isn’t Dallas, and Eagles could definitely confine Gurley if he was the crux of the offense, as Elliot is for Dallas. I think a shootout was anticipated by both war rooms. If these guys meet again, Gurley won’t have as much success. It will be colder in Philly, and I expect the total points would be considerably fewer than 78 points.
It occurred to me today that leading up to the Seattle and Rams games, I had said we were going as far as our run game and defense took us. And that’s even truer today than it was Sunday.
We’re still in the dance, so gonna root for the good guys and hope for the best.
Sucks to lose Wentz just like it did Peters and all the rest. However, no one player is larger than the team. Football is the ultimate TEAM sport and it would always have taken the whole team to win a SB. It still will. Wentz never won alone nor has any QB. The Eagles can win a SB without Wentz. The sky has not fallen. Is it harder now? Sure, but it was always going to be very hard even with Wentz. In a one-game-and-out playoff format, anything can happen. Get the HFA and do everything possible to win.
I watched a decent amount of the Jaguars manhandling the Seahawks to have a wishful agenda going forward. First, the kid needs to understand that his primary value to the offense is not his toughness, and not his leading by example. He has displayed a vast improvement in his field diagnosis, and decision making, and those are not to be held hostage to his big-eyed competitiveness. Mobility in the pocket is a great advantage, as is exploiting a run-pass option and sliding. Challenging big, athletic defenders who live to maim QB’s is not smart football. I know that there is no safe play in the NFL, but we lost CW because of his appetite…which needs to be curbed.
Anybody who saw any of the Seattle v Jacksonville game saw a savvy, veteran, hard-boiled defense slowed and softened (tenderized) by 32 runs among three big, tough, physical runners. Fournette had the bulk of the runs, but Chris Ivory and TJ Yeldon also pounded out some yards. Before the 3rd quarter was history, the makeshift Legion of Doom looked like an injured gazelle in the veldt.
So here is what I hope: Explain in firm language that CW needs to understand that he is not Joe Kapp or John Elway. Continue to load the defense with Joe Douglas china-shop bulls. Have Ajayi as your lightweight change of pace from two other punishing backs, and commit to running the ball. DP has run the ball more than anybody except Jax, but he does not seem interested in running ’til it hurts (the opponent’s defense). A commitment to run the ball in short and medium YTG scenarios is a concern of every DC in the league. I know that the point is to score points, but the latter can be facilitated by a demonstrated commitment to the former. We have the main piece in the personnel puzzle. When this season is over, I hope the FO begins to strategize ways to manage his longevity.
This has been all too common of a response and It’s way overblown. I’ve watched Wentz take a ton of hits all season, the vast majority of them in the pocket. I’ve held my breath after countless take downs and linemen rolling up on his legs.It’s because he holds onto the ball, the pay off is he makes tremendous plays because he doesn’t give up on plays. These plays are why he was favored to win the MVP. Those plays are why we’re 11-2. That is his game, his value. When you try to take out the dynamic elements of a Carson Wentz, Donovan McNabb, or Cam Newton to protect them, you end up with thoroughly mediocre QB’s.
He hasn’t taken on nearly as many defenders this year as last year. This was a game the Eagles needed. That was a TD the Eagles needed, the fact that the Eagles went for it on 4th down after a holding penalty called back the TD on the fateful endzone dive, makes that clear. Wentz protected himself as well as he could, he stayed low, evaded Barron’s hit targeting him in the head or shoulder region, would have been a harmless hit to his legs, just so happened there was a defender behind him that also hit him in the legs to combine with Barron’s hit to form a shearing effect at his knees. It’s a freak thing.
I think it would be a brutal mistake to try to reign Wentz in. He will learn what risks are worth taking over time. But I think he will take risks like that in big games in big situations every time. At the end of the day you just need to be lucky to win a superbowl, and that extends to injury luck. We didn’t have it this year.
I could not agree more.
it wasn’t even the hit that caused it, it likely happened on the left leg plant just before the hit.
Yeah I agree.
It’s a physical sport and guys get hurt sometimes. Even classic get-the-ball-out-quick-and-don’t-take-hits QBs like Brees and Brady have suffered season-ending injuries at times in their careers.
You just have to live with the risk.
Yep. There have been plenty of QBs that have been injured from the pocket.
He’s been better except at the goal line. His open field stuff has gotten much better — he often does try for some extra yardage and takes some light hits, but it’s usually one guy and he avoids the heavy hit. And he slides sometimes.
If there is a lot of traffic, with guys coming from multiple directions, he should get down. And normally does.
At the goal line though, that competitiveness takes over. And the goal becomes to get to that line, rather than maximizing yards without taking a big hit. He has gotten creamed a few times down there this year. And last week he fumbled trying to do the same (though was going to come up a bit short on that one regardless).
The injury may well have happened before the contact, but he was still walloped, on a day he’d taken plenty of other punishment. And you are still pushing your body to extremes to try and get that last yard, etc., which makes those injuries a bit more likely. Additionally, that was a 1st down play — he had 2-3 more plays to make a TD happen, and his success ratio on those passes has been superb. He could have even hung back there on that play and waited quite a while to see if a receiver came open. I was cringing the moment he tucked the ball and started to run.
He just doesn’t seem to have the instincts to run in traffic, like a Cam Newton does. He really shouldn’t be trying. QB sneaks, fine. He has an angle to the corner, fine. If he can get 5 yards into the end zone before being touched, fine. But ramming it in between defenders? Seems like a poor tradeoff; he’s way more effective passing. Now, he’s improved dramatically in most areas like this, and I have no doubt he will figure out the right balance at the goal line too. It’s a shame that an ACL had to happen first — though that could have also happened in the pocket — but regardless those big hits take their toll over a career and I’d rather have him save that athleticism for other areas.
Maybe. But look at some of the QBs who’ve been injured this year.
A-Rod, athletic scrambling QB
Mariota, athletic scrambling QB
Wentz, athletic scrambling QB
Tyrod Taylor, athletic scrambling QB
Andrew Luck, athletic scrambling QB
Ryan Tannehill, athletic scrambling QB
Deshaun Watson, athletic scrambling QB
Perhaps if more runs are called earlier in games it would take the starch out the team’s pass rush and Wentz would be taking less hits in or out of the pocket because we’re forcing a more honest approach by the D.
I did find it fun that Foles was the QB who led us to grab the win yesterday vs his old team.
Also fun to see the combo of Chris Long and Rodney McLeod, again former Rams, burn their old team on the strip sack and fumble recovery.
Foles will do what Case Keenum has done for the Vikings.
https://tenor.com/view/nick-foles-eagles-nfl-football-gif-10489243
One thing I’ve noticed these past 2 weeks is that the Eagles, and especially the secondary isn’t tackling as well. The defense as a whole were uncanny at tackling earlier this season. They attacked decisively, wrapped up, and got their man down. Been seeing a lot of bad angles and hesitation at the point of impact, Jenkins got juked a few times recently because he stopped his feet before contact. Once on the sideline, you just can’t let yourself get juked when you have the benefit of the sideline.
The whole defense is predicated on everyone tackling well. Now with Wentz out they all have to realize to keep the dream alive, they have to sell out every play to be a defense that can win a championship almost on its own.
There were signs of it before the last 2 weeks. People just ignored it because it didn’t matter then. Now it’s getting magnified against better teams. They were getting complacent and now that Wentz is gone, they need to get their shit together more than ever.
With Foles at QB and the questionable left hand side of our OL, Pederson is going to have to adjust his offensive approach. Pray Wiz comes back strong and Vitai can improve. Seumalo needs to sit, he was a turnstile last night.
Ajayi and Blount with Clement mixed in should be the dominant aspect of the attack – run the damn ball until the other team stops it consistently and play action pass in advantageous spots.
Control the clock, shorten the game, help Foles succeed and give your defense plenty of support and rest. The Rams run defense sucked and we passed it 40+ times(!). Foles will get killed in that scenario. Pederson must adjust and play to our strengths.
I suspect he will. When Pederson was the OC in Kansas City with a team that had a great RB in Charles and a limited QB in Alex Smith they ran the ball a ton, and we know that wasn’t Andy Reid’s doing.
Actually, when McNabb went down Reid did the same thing with Feeley and Garcia et al. That was the frustrating thing, he needed to do it with McNabb too! Just like Pederson needs to do it when Wentz returns. It makes QBs much more effective.
I’m not sure I buy that, to be honest. The teams with the elite QBs (Patriots, Packers, etc.) tens to throw the ball a ton. When you have a great passer it makes sense to pass the ball. Even the Steelers are primarily a passing team with Roethlisberger and they have a phenomenal RB.
I don’t want Wentz dropping back 50 times with only 12 called runs or anything that extreme, but when you have a guy like him you should be passing more than running.
Donnie wasn’t a great passer, though, just a very good one. With backs like Westie and McCoy, he should have used more balance.
I am not 100% sure about Doug leaning on Wentz as much as he has this year, but it had been working, so… it’s such a shame we won’t get to see CW in the playoffs against more good teams. I’m not sure how much blowouts against Chicago or SF really tells you.
McNabb was a way better decision maker than a pure passer for sure.
Oh I agree re: McNabb – the correct way to use him was in a run-heavier offense with play action and RPOs – he would’ve been great running the read option. Sadly he was a decade ahead of his time.
I am more referring to Wentz – he is a better pure passer than McNabb was. I think running an offense which doesn’t allow him to let it rip 30+ times a game is a waste of his talents.
But when read-option goes the way of the wildcat?
It won’t. You can’t run an entire offense based around it because the QB will take too much punishment, but as play concept that’s rolled out from time to time it’s here to stay.
McNabb would’ve excelled in the offense the Redskins were running with RG3 when he came into the league, or in the one the Panthers run now, is what I’m saying – offenses that are run heavy and use the QB’s mobility to threaten the defense and allow him to pass off of play action more. Reid tried to turn him into more of a classic WCO QB which wasn’t a perfect fit for his talents.
I just find the entire running QB stuff to be a vile dead end…….and as you said the QB takes too much punishment. It’s the worst sort of football.
Definitely don’t want to run it too much. But it’s a nice arrow to have in the quiver when you need a play that’s a good bet to pick up 3 or 4 yards in a critical situation.
Absolutely, I’ve just not seen the player who confines his running to that scenario for only one or two snaps a game and doesn’t devolve to taking his eyes off of his receivers to run when he should be looking to pass; well, other than Russell Wilson that is.
Just imagine for a second the Eagles win the Super Bowl with Nick Foles. How crazy and fun of a story will this have been?
Especially when Howie trades him to the Jets for 2 first rounders right after.
Wentz surgery this week said to be 9-12 months recovery. Wow that just make the crap smell even worse damn.
That seems normal. His recovery could bleed into next season.
12 months is quite long for me. From the guys i know and been around who have had it. 5-7months. Poor fella. Poor us Eagles fans. Whhhhyyy!!! lol
Who comes back plays football 5-7 months after ACL surgery?
Being playing Rugby since teenager. Still playing to this day. All the guys i know had ACL, Achilles, Miniscus tears the works. Never been a 12 month recovery.
I have never heard of anyone recovering that fast (5 months) from a complete ACL or Achilles’ tear. That has to be more the exception than the norm.
Not Achilles in 5 months but ACL. Just for me never heard of a full year out. Im wondering if it has to do with the leg development. For example Wentz is a QB so his leg n glute development wont be as strong or conditioned as a RB. Im pretty taken back for how long too be honest lol
In reading, you can return to some athletic activity in six months. It is probably one thing being able to resume a normal life, and quite another to being ready to play in the NFL.
Yip proper back to training then gametime. Talking Rugby and League. Im not an Orthopaedic surgeon or anything but yeah just weird to me for someone who has witnessed shorter recoveries. Well shorter than 12 months. People say Pro Athletes get certain treatment etc the only difference we get is full time physio lol We see the same specialist the same surgeons its just that we are covered full to have a physio treatment 5-7 days other than the public who have to pay for treatment 2 days a week. Also they are only covered for 6 weeks.
His pen name is Genetic-Freak….
hahaha
5-7 is too fast, but 12 strikes me as very long.
Sounds normal. Some come back earlier — AP injured his on December 24 and was ready for the season. But those are the exceptions. Matter of being able to rehab back to pro athlete levels. He may need to play with a brace next year too.
In reading, there is a newer ACL procedure that can sometimes be used that could dramatically cut recovery time, but not sure they are using it for pro athletes yet — may still be in trials.
Given that it sounded like there was no other damage, I was expecting more in the 6-9 month recovery time frame, so this is a little disappointing.
I’m still expecting that.
According to Rappaport on NFL Network just now, Eagles believe he tore it before contact and that it was only the ACL, no other damage. This supposedly help in recovery time.
So which straws are you grasping at?
I’m going with Doug Peterson has shown excellent adaptability and the coaching level of all the back ups has been superb.
With HFA we will be favored in game 1 and close to pick em game two then even a 40 percent underdog wins game 3 sometimes. The Rams win was very beneficial. Could have been swing from playing week one to number one seed.
That the Giants and Raiders suck, so home field gets wrapped up.
That the entire NFC, outside of Seattle, doesn’t really scare me having to come to our place to play.
But I can’t find a straw to grasp that gets us the Lombardi.
Yes this is similar to mine. Then you need luck in the SB.
Luck and Wentz are equally healthy for the Super Bowl; oh not that Luck.
Last time we played Pats we had like 4 ST td’s just do that again.
Just no Barner fumbles please.
Pittsburgh has won 4 straight at the buzzer.NE is losing by 17 to Miami. They’re both flawed teams. Pretty big straws, eh?
I’m wagering on the idea that the Football Gods have a keen sense of irony, and that it will be Nick Foles, the failed would-be franchise quarterback we’ve already rejected once, who many fans complained is overpaid and shouldn’t even be on the roster, and not the obvious real-deal franchise savior he’s subbing for, who will finally lift the Eagles’ championship curse.
As a kid I spent several years in New England and the Red Sox were the first sports team I ever rooted for (thankfully I got out of there before contracting Patriots, Celtics, or Bruins fandom though). After living through some of those heartbreaks in the late 80s and imbibing all the fatalistic, doom-seeking thinking prevalent in the fan base pre-2004 (very similar to the Negadelphian mindset now), I came to think they’d never win it all. When they finally did, it happened in completely unexpected fashion, in a season everyone had already given up for lost, but only after an agonizingly tense and drawn-out run in which one unexpected hero after another came up big (hello Dave Roberts stealing second on Mariano Rivera) and in which all the memorable plays that usually went against the team and crushed the fans’ hopes actually went in their favor for once (hello A-Rod being called out for runner interference for slapping the ball out of Bronson Arroyo’s glove on a play on which what had seemed destined to be the go-ahead run in a crushing loss scored). The lesson I drew from this that when a curse ends, you won’t see it coming – for once the dice will land in your favor and you’ll be as shocked as you are elated. I expect it will be no different when the Eagles’ drought finally ends.
NFL Network just had the Wentz video on he posted on his Twitter account. They left off the first 55 seconds where Carson said Jesus did this to him for a reason and that the Lord has a plan for him.
Popular culture is going further and further from faith, but man you look at Carson Wentz and have to wonder what we’re missing.
That’s the exact same thing people say when a 110 year old says they wash down their bacon and butter sandwich every day with a pack or Parliments. There’s a bit more to it.
lol
Good parenting, role models, a quality education. Some intelligence to begin with. But I think we dismiss too easily the degree to which athletes benefit from faith (whatever faith that is). Cynicism is fashionable.
Institutions in general have broken down and been replaced with consumerism and a grab-bag of belief systems. Increased freedom and increased anomie. Who knows if it’s for the best; as Zhou En-Lai said when asked what he thought about the French Revolution: “too soon to tell.”
Drive and commitment can come from anywhere and anything. Better God than gambling debt, I guess, but I wouldn’t draw any grand conclusions from it being God just because it fits a narrative. There’s plenty of devout Christians that can’t throw a football for shit, for example, and suddenly converting isn’t going to make you better unless you internalize it as motivation to practice more. And maybe those bacon and butter cigarette sandwiches are motivating to you, but it could also be tic tacs, for those of you who are working on potty training the little ones.
There are plenty of people of faith who are not role models.
What’s uber-wholesome Carson Wentz, though?
Injured.
An anecdote. A sample of one.
Man reading that make me have faith hes coming back better than ever!
I have zero issue with people’s personal faith and how they use that faith to motivate and comfort themselves. If it helps Wentz handle the situation and come back ready to roll, I’m all for it.
And?
I dont get why people freak out over his faith. Its not like the guy is sitting in his basement trying to bring about the new world order. He’s a good dude.
Yeah, it doesn’t move the needle either way for me.
People freak out because as we’re seeing in Alabama in present time, many people in this country (and the world) cannot separate their religion from reality.
You mean religion from politics/partisanship
A grown man in his 30s dating 14 year olds and then citing Bible passages on why that is OK has nothing to do with politics/partisanship.
People use religion to justify a lot BS, that’s obviously wrong…
I suspect the Eagles had planned to move on from Foles this off-season, to save the salary cap money. But given Wentz’ injury, and the very real possibility that a backup may need to play for a while to start next season, you wonder if that plan is now out the door. Unless they feel that Sudfeld could actually play well by then. Does everyone think that keeping Foles is now a necessity?
I think Wentz misses some time in 2018.
I guess it depends on how the coaches feel about Foles vs Sudfield this off season; and how well Foles finishes out the season(playoffs).
True. It’s possible that Foles plays himself into being wanted by other teams, and Eagles are given an offer they can’t refuse. That would mean we did well this year…
That could happen.
Yup; January through July. No big deal.
No
I agree; I now think that getting good value for Foles in a trade is a necessity after he leads us to home field and a playoff win or two.
Too early to tell.
A full year wow. Ick, yuck.. vomit .. a full leg transplant wud heal faster
It is apparently a simple ACL tear which is an easier surgery and faster rehab than knee injuries with multiple ligament tears. Shouldn’t be a full year.
TY for the aspirin. Data something that he was able to play sort of and that he walked off the field i was hoping a positive sign
Painful auto correct .. hopefully self driving vehicles don’t have Samsung autocorrect
Jimmy Rollins and Ed Rendell were correct.
Huh?
Frontrunners and wusses
Ha; I’d call Rollins a waste of money on his final contract who should have been traded after the bottom fell out of this team in 2012 and Rendell the ultimate version of yesterday’s news.
I can’t disagree one bit, but that’s entirely irrelevant.
So are Jimmy and Ed’s “points.” We’re the greatest fan base ever and tougher than anybody who ever existed.
Ok, i see a lot if pouting and emotionally throwing in the towel though, and suggesting that winning it all is all that matters.
Phooey on that. I think most here are open minded as to looking to see what Foles can do.
Expectations aren’t high though.
I’ve only taken “Super Bowl Champs” off of my possibilities menu.
Why? That’s silly.
Really? I think if the Eagles don’t win the Superbowl, they’re all gutless cowards who should be forced to push sleds all across the fields before they clean out their lockers!
No, that’s if they lose to the Giants or a playoff game at home.
If the Eagles don’t win the Superbowl, I’d make them all march out to the practice field at midnight and force them to start digging their own graves. That, or I’d just hope Wentz gets healthy and try again next year. Either or.
I hope you’re right. But I’m getting a different vibe.
I gotta disagree with you, at least on your second point.
People have completely gone to pieces since the news on Wentz came out. So much doom-and-gloom. Plenty of fans saying there’s no point to the season anymore, completely ignoring that while the odds are certainly longer teams have won Super Bowls with backup QBs before.
It’s pretty pathetic for a fan base that prides itself on resiliency.
Its just over 24 hours since the injury and less so since we knew for sure the severity. Ease up. The sky would be falling in NE, Pitt, Seattle, New Orleans, Carolina, Atlanta, etc. if their starting QB went down for the season, too.
Let the emotional outburst run its course (anger, denial, etc.) and we’ll see where we are in week. Chill.
I’m not worked up about it at all, actually. I don’t get too emotional about sports at this point in my life, so while Wentz getting hurt is a bummer it’s not like it ruined my day.
Just making an observation: Philly fans pride themselves on their toughness, but I don’t think they’re actually very tough. They’re quite fragile, actually. Way too quick to sour on/give up on their teams. It’s understandable given the history but it’s a real tendency.
“Toughness” can be interpreted in many ways. These fans care, deeply – in a tough sense. I interpret it to be diehard or loyal. So, the minors ups and downs show, and the major ones, like losing your starting MVP-candidate QB a month before playoffs, well, yeah, explosion/anger/ranting to be expected. But they are tough in that, no matter what, they’ll be at the games, they’ll watch the games, they’ll cheer on the team.
Ask the Rams about their fan(s).
Seems to me what you’re talking about would better be termed “passionate” and “loyal”.
Absolutely no argument that Philly fans are those two things. I think they’re as loyal and passionate as any fans in the country. But to me toughness connotes ability to withstand setbacks without falling apart emotionally and to endure suffering without complaint and I don’t think our fans are particularly great at those things.
Kaepernick doesn’t need to be better than Foles. He needs to be better than Sudfield. Sign him.
But we have Ajayi, Blount, Clement, etc.
lol
I swear I might be the lone person who 100% behind Kaep socially and 100% against him as a QB.
I guess that’s going to get you further than the exact opposite.
And again, I’d say he’s definitely a better QB than Sudfield.
If we’re talking who to sign week 2 I’d see it as a way better discussion.
No
Not sure if this is accurate:
http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/clubhouse/nfl/fa/free-agent
Ugh, looking at RG3 at the top there makes me real sad, considering the parallels.
I hear you. I think Wentz is way ahead, though, in reading the defense and passing. I hope at least. 🙂
The parallels are superficial at best.
RG3 was a read-option/play action QB who completely depended on mobility to be effective (not only running the ball but also throwing on the run), suffered a more serious injury (multiple ligament tears), had it happen six weeks later in the year, and played for an incompetent organization which didn’t oversee his rehab properly and rushed him back.
Wentz is a pocket passer (albeit a mobile one) who is primarily effective because of his ability to make classic drop back throws, suffered a simple ACL tear with no other ligament damage, had it happen a month before the end of the season, and plays for an organization which appears well-run and professional and which will give him the best care and rehab available.
The only similarities are that they’re both young QBs who suffered knee injuries. Beyond that, totally different situations.
Whewww…a voice of reason to quell my negadelphian thoughts
On QB 3 (now 2) forget winning games. Say you are up 7 with 5 minutes left you don’t need a hero. You leaving it to someone with zero NFL passes? I don’t know the answer.
Run for 2 or 3 first downs with your running back, take a knee at the end of the game, and hope that your fans don’t have to pelt disrespectful scumbags with beer because they’re trying to injure your O-line.
Go Dolphins.
Any updates on Wiz?
Pederson said he was day-to-day at the press conference today. Should be fine.
Thanks.
一言不发岂能证明我来过了？！
Dolphins held the ball for 13 minutes in the first quarter and only came away with 6 points. That’s why you’re going to lose, Miami.
Also, I realize I peaked athletically a long time ago, but I can’t help but laugh when an elite athlete at the top of his game drops the ball while running simply because he just drops the ball.
Nobody catches them all
No no, I don’t mean he dropped a pass, I mean he had the ball, was running with the ball, and then just dropped it. Like inexplicably just dropped it for a fumble. He wasn’t hit or contacted in any way, he just dropped it like it suddenly was coated in butter or something.
So on that sack, the safety lined up just past the left end, blitzed, came untouched and sacked Cutler. The back was to Cutler’s right, so he was on the side the blitzer was coming from, but he didn’t stay in to block, he ran a route out to Cutlers left, away from the Blitz.
Is that a mistake by the back, releasing with a clear rusher off that side, or a mistake by Cutler not keeping the back in to block?
Had me confused. .. ha!! I’m Watchung the Eagles game recorded
I don’t get why Patriots games are on national TV every year against weak opponents like the Dolphins.
Division
At the start of the season, with a healthy Tannehill, Miami looked like a potential playoff team. With Cutler, they suck, and New England cheats.
Jay Cutler is the most talented terrible quarterback since Jeff George.
I think there’s a guy like this in every NFL generation – has all the necessary physical tools, but is mentally fragile/is uncoachable/is a complete A-hole disliked by his teammates/etc. and thus founders nevertheless, ruining the fortunes of an organization which hitches their wagon to him for the better part of a decade because of his “potential”.
Their division and conference are full of weak opponents every year
R U watching?
Earlier in the season, the same people that are saying we are done now were saying that Minnesota was done because of Case Keenum. Obviously our chances took a hit, but there’s some talent on both of our lines. Let’s go for this.
What gets me is the fans who simultaneously argue that the Keenum-quarterbacked Vikings are a serious threat and would be favored to knock out the Eagles even with a healthy Wentz, and that no team with a backup QB like Foles starting can be a serious contender and that we might as well give up on the season because we have no realistic change to win with a backup QB.
Completely ignoring the fact that these two guys were equally awful on the Rams a few years back and spent the season being benched for each other, and both came into this season as backups.
*Facepalm*
Think of how unlikely it was for just one of them to turn into a decent QB. Whatever odds you just came up with, square it. That’s the odds that both Keenum and Foles will be great this year.
The odds that they play better than they did for fucking Jeff Fischer is 1 to 1, though. You’d have to give me odds to bet against that.
I think that framing fundamentally misunderstands/misrepresents how it works.
Firstly, these two events are independent. Whether Foles plays well is completely unrelated to whether Keenum plays well.
Secondly, the odds of a backup QB “turning into” a good QB are not like the odds of rolling a certain number on a die, or of getting two straight heads when flipping a coin. Whether or not a QB will play well or not is not determined by pure random chance, it’s determined by the quality of the coaching they receive and the supporting cast around them, as well as their own willingness to work and inherent talent. Foles is surrounded by good coaches who understand how to scheme an effective NFL offense and by a talented supporting cast, he seems to work hard, and he has demonstrated enough talent to be effective as an NFL QB in the past given favorable circumstances. There’s no reason to believe given all this that he is particularly likely to fail, and in fact good reason to believe he will have more success than most QBs who are thrust into this situation.
I think Foles can be Keenum esque. I hope.
I agree. People (even Tommy, I believe!) were quick to say last offseason that we were definitely not going to be SB contenders this year. Then, of course, Wentz happened… Oops.
I’ve never understood these absolute proclamations about the future. Weird stuff happens all the time in the NFL. Players break out. Coaches put together the perfect game plan. Sometimes there’s a perfect storm.
I get saying “unlikely.” But “never”? You’d think people would have learned by now…
I’m thoroughly enjoying Tom Brady being shit tonight. He looks like Brock Osweiler.
wow, illegal touch saved whoever that was from an all time special teams gaffe.
Man Tom Brady is out here chucking it like wild thing, all velocity but nobody knows where it will go.
The only thing that would make this sweeter is if the Pats were laying this egg in New England.
Not sure what the thinking was on a deep ball there. either run it or short safe pass to make em use their last time out. But I’m not a head coach you know?
Classic go to the soft zone late against New England. Watch them lose this game. Why stick with what’s shut them down all game? But like I said I’m not a coach, I can’t be in a situation where I can coach not to lose.
I am loving Miami failing right now. Every team that goes soft zone against new england deserves their loss. It’s like the coaches haven’t watched football for the last 15 years.
MVP candidate Tom Brady with that solid 59 QB rating. Wentz would be running away with it after Brady’s night tonight and Wilson yesterday.
I think Foles is going to throw 27 td’s to 2 ints the rest of the season/post season combined…
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/60edf388417ff53e70f1a4ab638adf7ad7cffdf9d44e21ed098ee2ece79b3aa0.png