Day 2 in the Books
Posted: April 27th, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 70 Comments »The Eagles added a pair of talented players on Friday:
2 – 35 – TE Zach Ertz – 6-5, 249 – Stanford
3 – 67 – DL Bennie Logan – 6-2, 309 – LSU
I’m going to start with Logan. I watched him to get a feel for him a couple of months back. I could see he had talent, but I didn’t see a guy that fit what the Eagles were going to be doing on defense (playing the 3-4, liking bigger, taller players). I focused my energy on others and hoped to get back and take another look at Logan. For a variety of reasons, that never happened.
I was extremely surprised when the Eagles picked him. I just didn’t see the fit based on my casual tape study and research. I was able to go back tonight and watch several games. My reaction to the pick has changed quite a bit.
I get it, now.
You literally have to watch Logan play in 5 or 6 full games to have a true feel for him. His responsibilities change from game to game. John Chavis is the DC for LSU. He is a gifted defensive mind and creative coach. He took full advantage of his versatile players by drastically changing the gameplans depending on the opponents.
Put on the Clemson or Texas A&M games. Both teams run the spread. Both have mobile QBs that are also talented pocket passers. Attacking upfield can create as many problems for the defense as it does for the offense. Watch Logan in those games. He generally came off the ball passively. He would shove the blocker in front of him and then back off. Logan would then mirror the QB and chase him if the guy tried to run outside. Sure enough, Logan got a “sack” of Johnny Football by chasing him out of bounds while doing this. He had a couple of plays like this vs Clemson, where he read a play and got in on the tackle (not just of the QB).
Logan isn’t anything special athletically. He is surprisingly agile. He has good field vision and awareness. If he had some closing speed, Logan would be dangerous. He does have good upper body strength. He can hold his ground with no problems against single blockers. He is inconsistent vs double teams. When Logan is fresh and uses his hands well, he is tough to move. He wears down and will then use his shoulders more than he should. That can be worked on.
Watch the Florida game and you see some stout play from Logan. Put on the Bama game and he more than held his own against Chance Warmack. That was impressive. There were at least 2 snaps in the Bama game when Logan lined up at DE.
I thought Auburn and Washington were his best games. He was regularly disruptive vs Auburn. Against UW, I thought Logan had a few “wow” moments. He fired upfield on one pass play and either timed the snap perfectly or showed some explosion I hadn’t seen before. That was really impressive. Since the LSU coaches didn’t fear the UW and Auburn QBs getting loose, they let the DL attack up the field. Logan showed he could do that.
I still don’t see a great fit for Logan in our defense, but his versatility may be one of the things that the scouts and coaches like the most. Logan could play NT and DE in the 3-4, NT and 3-tech in the 4-3. His best fit might be NT in the Nickel and Dime. He can push the pocket and occupy 2 blockers, to free up Fletcher Cox and let the DEs come off the edge. Logan showed some ability to push the pocket at LSU. There were some sets where he’d be the NT in a 3-man line and try to collapse the line.
Chip Kelly did say the Eagles had a 2nd round grade on Logan. I like the guy, but the Eagles must really like him. Kelly said the team thinks based on his frame that he can carry another 10 to 15 pounds pretty easily. Logan does have 34-inch arms and 10-inch hands so that will help him play DE if they want to try that at times.
I dug up some good stories on Logan and posted links here. He sounds like a high character guy that will come in and gladly do the dirty work. Darwin Walker wanted to rush the passer every play and that’s why he was so frustrating despite all his talent. Logan will do whatever the coaches ask.
One of the nice side effects of this pick is that it sounds like Dallas had targeted Logan. They had him in for a visit. Cowboys insiders were disappointed when he was picked and a few had mentioned him in articles as a player to watch. Nice.
Chip Kelly and Bill Davis say they want to run a hybrid defense. Well, they need some hybrid players. Logan is exactly that, with the ability to move around and do various things. The Eagles also needed to improve the depth of the D-line. The pick makes a lot of sense from that standpoint.
Here is his game vs Ole Miss from this year. Logan is #18 and generally the RDT.
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As for Zach Ertz, I’ve written a lot about him already.
Here is the post covering him and his versatility.
Here’s something from PE.com the other day:
“Chip Kelly is going to make the tight ends more a part of the offense than Andy Reid did. That means he needs depth and talent. Brent Celek is a good starter, but Kelly will want someone good behind him.
Ertz is a very good prospect. He was the featured receiver for Stanford and led the team with 69 catches for 898 yards. I think he’d be an ideal fit in Kelly’s offense. Ertz can line up as a traditional tight end and work the short and underneath routes, but he can also split out wide and catch passes down the field. He has very good hands. He runs well. Ertz looks like a big wide receiver. His ability to move around and create mismatches is something Kelly would love. He will give linebackers fits. He’ll get open against most safeties. In college, Ertz even beat some cornerbacks. He runs very good routes and sells his fakes well. He does this at full speed and it gets him open.
Stanford is a running team. You don’t play if you don’t block. Ertz isn’t going to overwhelm anyone, but he gives good effort and is willing to do the dirty work. Kelly knows all about Stanford and Ertz. Back in November, Stanford ran for 200 yards against Oregon and Ertz caught 11 passes for 106 yards and a touchdown in a big upset. ”
I cannot stress enough that Ertz is here to be part of the TE group. He isn’t here to replace Celek this year. Chip Kelly wants both Celek and Ertz on the field together.
James Casey is an H-back. He doesn’t affect Celek/Ertz at all. I think the Eagles could still add another player, for either the TE or H-back roles. Expect Kelly to want to keep 4 TEs. Right now Celek, Ertz, and Casey are 3 of them. Clay Harbor, Emil Igwenagu, Evan Moore, and Derek Carrier are hoping for the final spot, but will have to earn it.
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I started 2 for 2 in my mock draft for PE.com with Lane Johnson and Ertz. Not too bad, huh? Logan killed me.
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I will put up a Day 3 preview on Saturday morning. There are still quite a few good players left. If only we had more picks…
_
Feel like Sanders Cummings could be the next target… Did Eagles show any interest in BW Webb?
My guess for pick 101: LB Kevin Reddick. I’m ok with him or S Bacarri Rambo – I like S Tony Jefferson better but he’s an inch shorter and that may take down his Kelly Green Book value.
I want Rambo because… Well, his name’s Rambo.
Yo Howie! Look me up if you need a new scout.
Yes, Rocky Boiman turned out so well
“Kelly Green Book” value …awesome!
Just An Average Joseph
You have think think Jeff Stoutland had some input on Logan, having faced him three times in the last two years.
Great point. And Logan played well vs Bama the last 2 yrs.
I must admit that I didn’t see the Logan pick coming, but then I reminded myself that the Eagles picked up Tom Gamble in the offseason. That being said I fully trust the Eagles brains in this regard. The draft is far from being over and if the Eagles can pick up another borderline starter and good depth/competition on the last day, we will be in a good position to compete for a WC spot, even in Chip Kelly’s first year.
Go Eagles!
I actually saw Logan to the Eagles in a few mocks
I was against taking any QB’s this draft, thinking they were going to be overvalued as usual, but the fact that this backlog of QB’s –Barkley, Nassib, Dysert, Tyler Wilson, etc.– might mean that Matt Scott is available in Round 5 is pretty exciting. I’d definitely grab him. His scouting reports make it sound like he has the right skill-set for a Chip Kelly offense, unless I’m missing something.
Cool narrative if we get Matt Scott: Foles took his spot in college, and now Scott might take his spot in the pros.
Rather have Dysert than Scott….but I would prefer us not using any pics on a QB….We barely have enough picks as it is…adding a QB means passing on a Kruger type
Trust me, I hear you on that, but good value is good value, especially for an athletic QB in the 5th.
I, of course, have no idea where the Eags have him ranked. The QB scouting reports are all over the place this year. I just read 3 or 4 vehement scouting reports insisting that Tyler Wilson is the best (or is “the safest bet”) in this year’s QB class (which seems ridiculous to me), so I don’t know what to make of these guys.
Thought I read somewhere that Scott had a few concussions (3?). If that is true, that would scare me away. I am starting to feel like it would be better to just roll with what we have till next year.
I didn’t hear he had 3 concussions. Wow. If that’s true, then I’d pass.
What you guys have to understand is that a player’s weight is only important to teams that don’t have a Sports Science Coordinator. It’s just the heights they can’t change, until they can coordinate that too.
Genetic modification smoothies??
I’m not excited about these two, I understand them, but to me they’re both role players.
Ertz is a smooth receiver with good hands, but he’s 249 lbs, I hear people compare him to Witten and that’s just stupid, Ertz ran 4.68, Witten was 264 lbs and ran 4.74 when he came out – Witten was a true TE, Ertz is basically a H-back and will need two years to develop into an in line TE if ever. Ertz lacks the kind of speed to really threaten the seam, he’s basically a faster, smoother, more reliable version of Celek with better hands, but it took Celek a few seasons to become an adequate blocker, expect the same with Ertz.
Logan is 6’2 309 lbs, 34″ arms but still did 30 reps, he fits the mold of the “long” player I’ve been talking about. I see him as more of a utility player, can play all three spots but will excel only as a “5”, adequate as a one gap “1”, will need to add 10 lbs before he can play significant reps as a true two gap NT, and isn’t explosive enough to be effecitve as a “3”. Similar to Sopoage when he came out.
Logan 6’2 309 34″
Celek’s college writeups said he was at square one as a blocker, while Ertz’ say he’s a good college blocker despite one year as a starter.
JS Online finds some great quotes by scouts (or he has a great imagination!):
Fourth-year junior and 1 ½-year starter. “He really runs good routes,” one scout said. “He knows how to get open, which makes a big difference.” “Now he’s strictly a receiver,” another scout said. “He’s not even their base tight end. He lines up in the slot or split. I don’t think he’ll ever become a good blocker
because he doesn’t have that lower-body power. He’s really smooth and runs well.” “He’s Stanford, smart (Wonderlic of 26) and all that, but I think he’s just a middle-of-the-road talent,” said a third scout. “Good underneath possession guy. I don’t think he’s a playmaker and he’s not a blocker.”
31 3/4″ arms (short) with only 24 reps, not a lot of upper body strength.
Celek
Have you watched the tape of Ertz? The guy may not have straight line speed but I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a TE prospect with better body control and fluidity – his moves were regularly effective in creating separation against safeties and even cornerbacks in college, so I think he’ll be effective against linebackers and strong safeties in the pros. Witten is not a speed guy either.
I see Logan as Sop’s understudy. And Kelly said he thought Bennie had the frame to add the weight. He has versatility but will eventually end up as NT I think.
I think when its all said and done, both Logan and Cox will be playing somewhere between 310-320lbs
You’re underselling Ertz in a big way. This is one of those times when you have to set aside the numbers and trust the tape. Really good player.
Oh I don’t doubt he’s a really good receiver. But Celek’s been top ten in TE receiving yards the last few years, while Ertz is an upgrade, he’s not a huge upgrade, and he’s not as good of a blocker right now. And he’s not as versatile as Casey. So the problem will be getting value out of him the next two years – as I pointed out above, that pretty much means trading a WR or two to get him on the field (and get additional value out of the pick). Eventually, if he can get to 255 lbs and improve his blocking, he can replace Celek.
It’s not a bad pick, but not one that’s gonna upgrade this offense substantially in the short run. It may have been the best value on the board at that point, but not the player that will help this team the most in the next two years. Which is the downside of BPA – it’s easier to do if you’re already a good team.
In terms of blocking, I would have rather had Kelce. That said, I’m happy with Ertz because Kelce didn’t last to our 3rd rd. pick.
The Ertz pick makes me think Howie will be trying to move some players today for late round picks. If you’re going two TE as your base offense, and want a big, run blocking WR on the field (much less 2 TE plus Casey), then having both DeSean and Maclin becomes superfluous (and Maclin won’t be a happy camper to see his reps and touches reduced in a contract year). So I can see Maclin offered today. Maybe Avant as well. Harbor is now a spare wheel, they’d be happy to pick up a 7th rd pick for him.
Sure they’d be happy to get anything for Harbor, who they probably are about to release anyway.
I think in the red zone Ertz becomes your X receiver. .Celek would be the Y and of course Casey is the F back. That leaves just a Z receiver, Jackson (and maybe even he comes out for a bigger receiver.)
Avant is outtahere too. He’s totally superfluous.
What is Maclin worth, though; I’d be after more than a 3rd day pick if I was trying to move him. Maybe you get a couple of picks this year or something next year? I’d be open to offers, just not convinced we’ll get much at this point.
Even if you don’t like the Bennie Logan pick, its still funny whenever we get to stick it to the Cowboys.
Apparently the Browns were calling him just as we picked him. So there’s sticking it to our good friend Banner too.
I think, just like with Ansah or Jordan, the front 7 will have many different looks featuring certain players/strengths. As Tommy alluded to, there will probably be a 2-man dime or 3-3-5 featuring Logan and Cox grinding, letting our pass-rushing OLBs do their job. Or a stout 3-man front against the run featuring Logan-Soap-Cox, allowing Ryans and Kendricks to eat up everything else.
Curious if this means that Curry will indeed be seeing snaps as OLB
Maybe Curry-Logan-Cox in a 3-3-5? With Graham/Ryans/Barwin? oh man, that would be some scary pass-rushing talent.
We could never run these fronts under Reid’s “OneTrickPony talent evaluation” reign of terror.
lol…our secondary couldnt perform high school coverages last year without blowing assignments…I literally have no clue, how such a basic, and Vanilla defense, had so many blown assignments….Its going to be such a nice change to have opposing teams, not know exactly what we are doing on every single play, on both sides of the ball….
On Offense, we are going from a stale/stubborn playbook, to a playbook that no one has any clue what its going to look like….
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On Defense, we are going from undiscaplined Vanilla, to schematic desquise and versatility…
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I think we could have brought back, last years exact roster,and have been much better than we were last year(not saying it would equate to alot of wins, but we would definitely be a better team)…The Coaching change alone, makes us sooooo much better. I still think returning to greatness wont happen overnight. But I really like the foundation that they are laying!
Not sure if anyone expected Barkley to be available in the 4th. Does he fit Chip’s system?
Barkley will be a steal for someone. Don’t know that going negative on the read option in your combine press conference is a good way to get Chip Kelly to call your name.
Could, but I doubt he’s a target. Limited athlete. Limited arm. Good intangibles.
Cosell saw this coming, or to be more specific, saw Barkley as a fourth round talent. This is not only a league of parity but also parody. Teams aren’t reaching for qbs this year. Look at Jacksonville, Tennessee, Clevland, Jersey junior and to a lesser extent KC (2nd for Cassell), AZ and if All Day wasn’t you could throw the Vikes on the list too. When you reach for a player you are also passing on better players. What if SF took Kaepernick first then Brooks Reed 2nd? If CIN took Dalton then Titus Young? Or if Seattle can’t pick up both Irvin and Wagner because Wilson went higher? These teams chose to improve by selecting players and not positions. SF got Aldon Smith and CIN got AJ Green as rewards for being patient and not reaching.
Michael Buchanan, OLB, Illinois
He’s definitely on the short list.
yep. we still need an OLB still. I was sad to see Lemoneir go last night. Buchanon is a pretty important get now. Okafor is still out there though, and Chase Thomas though I dont really like him. And again, Id love to have Okpalaugo. Chip knows him well because he wreaked havoc in the oregon game.
Tommy – kept checking back last night to see your thoughts on Logan and wondered what was taking so long. Reading your post this morning made me glad you waited and reminded me why your blog is my favorite. Always appreciate your well thought out and researched posts. Too many writers react without knowing what they are talking about.
Thanks for being patient. I really wanted to be able to understand Logan before trying to explain him to others.
I was doing the same thing last night. Finally I clicked over to Eagles Blog and lo and behold… http://eaglesblog.net/2013/04/some-bennie-logan-stuff/
[…] • Tommy and I recorded a show late last night. We recapped Day 2, and previewed Day 3. We only went about 38 minutes, so it’s a quicker listen this time. Tommy is 2 for 3 so far on his Eagles mock. […]
I had a hard time not feeling disappointed when they first announced the Logan pick, mainly because I had never heard of him, yet I had heard of the 20 or so names called after him (particularly all the DB’s). No one had mentioned Logan in connection with the Eagles, so at first it seemed like a reach.
But it sounds like the front office was staying true to their board, and I like the idea that we took a target away from the Browns and Cowboys…
I’d have to think DB and LB are the next 2 picks. Michael Buchanon, OLB, CB’s like Commings and that dude McGee would be considerations. Is Jordan Poyer still on the board? Safeties Phillip Thomas, Rambo are considerations in the 4th. In the 5th, Quanterous Smith and AJ Klein. OR will Zac Dysert come into play…?
why not draft LSU corner Thirold Simon? Whats wrong? not a fan of prospects that get arrested the night of the NFL draft? lmao
THirold: “Dont you know who the F I am? I run Eunice, Im the King around here! The mayor of Eunice has my back”
Eunice Police Officer: “you have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law….” Apparently that Eunice Police officer did not get the Memo,…
hahahahahaha I mean, prospects getting arrested the night of the draft? Can you get any dumber than that? Id rather you poop on a hotel floor. What a Fool!
Poyer is indeed still on the board. I thought he’d be a second round pick; could be this year’s Boykin?
My top target right off the bat today is Brian Schwenke. Yeah we need CBs and safeties and those positions are getting thin. But we signed starting caliber players there in free agency. And Schwenke is VERY important for this team. How poor was our depth at interior OL last year? Especially Center when Kelce went down? Schwenke will back up all 3 positions. And if Kelce isnt ready for week 1, he will be our starting center. Herremans and Mathis are both in their 30s. Schwenke will be a vital backup for a year or 2, and then will be a starter. He is hella athletic, really quick, and plays with a mean streak.
He is the second best center after Frederick who went in the 1st round. He is versatile. I am shocked that he is still on the board going to round 4. Gotta get him now.
Im sure there are Olineman out there, no one has heard of, that will fit Chip Kelly to a T, the way Kelce did with Muddman…Unless you are drafting a guy like Barrett or Qberry who can play every position on your line, I would much rather wait til the 7th or priority undrafted FA, to find our backup centers n Guards…..Im expecting Sanders Commings or McGee as our next pick….
Im happy with our pics so far…but Im a little aggrivated that we havent aquired any extra picks yet, whether by trading back, or trading a few birds from the past Regime….I guess Maclin is safe. Curry is probably safe(because I doubt they would accept a 4th for him)…Cole, Avant, Harbor, Chaney, watkins(?), arent out of the woods yet
Well, Schewnke cant back up at tackle, Ill give you that. I still think he is talented enough, and valuable enough considering last years O Line disaster to warrant a 4th round pick.
Quessenberry is another guy I like, but I have Schwenke higher. I think Quess is a guard and I dont like him as much at Center. Meanwhile, I think Schwenke is a Center who I still like quite a bit at Guard.
Barrett Jones- Lisfranc injury. Very scary. Im not interested in him quite yet. No idea if he will ever be the same player.
As for trades, Im disappointed we didnt get more picks as well. ed.
As far as trades, Id still trade Curry for a 4th and a future pick. Id do the same for Graham.
I agree with you on Maclin. I thought either he or Jackson would be traded, but it is much too late for that.
I dont see Avant being traded. Who values him? Slow slot WR in his 30s. There are quite a few nice WRs still available. I cant see him being moved during the draft. Hopefully after. Maybe during camps.
I agree Cole, Harbor, Watkins, Chaney arent out of the woods. Id add in Matthews as well.
Yeah, I think he’s a strong possibility too. I’m all in favor of adding a backup at C/G, someone who could eventually be a starter, as opposed to our perennial backups.
Schwenke would be a strong choice. Surprised he’s not already off the board.
With Chip clearly looking at the TEs to play a bigger role in his offense, does this further suggest that the writing is on the wall for Avant. I just don’t see what Avant would give you that the TEs don’t. Plus they have some playmaking and blocking ability that Avant doesn’t. (Not that Avant is a bad blocker, he’s just not as big as a TE and big people beat up little people)
I certainly expected to see some trades, and he seems like a good candidate to be the first out the door. What does a team give up for a player like Avant, at his age, when they have a chance to find a slot WR in the draft?
There are actually a lot of pretty good WRs still on the board.
I think Avant will be employed somewhere as a WR but not sure he has any trade value (other than, perhaps, conditional).
Arrelius Benn(who to me is a LOCK to make this roster), and Riley Goldilocks cooper(because of his size and blocking), could very well make avant expendable….Tom, Can you see a guy like Avant, who was at our draft party thursday, getting traded two days later? Is it really possible that we arent going to trade away, and of our players???
We need an extra 5th and a 6th
I like Avant, but I don’t see a place for him on this squad.
Jason Smith, St. Louis’ 2nd overall pick back in 2009, had a pretty decent combine. His numbers were similar to Lane Johnson’s and he didn’t have much experience either. He was also taken with a high draft pick because the draft was pretty weak. There are just so many similarities between the two that make me question Johnson’s future.
I wasn’t sold on Smith. I completely am on Johnson.
Can you see them taking Gholston in the fourth?
Wouldn’t be shocked if they grabbed Nassib.
Obviously it would be nice to address the secondary early today, but it seems like there are some quality value WRs available…
Q. Patton
R. Swope
D. Rogers
J. Boyce
Again, what are we doing with Avant and/or Maclin if we pluck another WR early today, I don’t know…
Yeah… it is a pretty strong group considering.
Well, here’s where we find out (possibly) whether it’s all about “the board” or filling positions. To me, OLB and DB seem like positions to fill but if they take a “luxury” like a WR, then they’re probably just following their board.
Lots of good choices here… I’ll play the broken record and say “trade down”. Maybe some team is juicing for Nassib…
Oi, what’s going on?! The 4th round is kicking off in 60 minutes and still no top targets from tommy??
RE: Logan
I would hope he can play every spot on the line when his major was “General Studies.”