A Goode Move?
Posted: September 3rd, 2013 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 186 Comments »The Eagles threw us a curveball today. They cut ILB Emmanuel Acho and added ILB Najee Goode from Tampa.
Weird move.
I have watched college tape and parts of 2 preseason games today to see Goode in action. My reaction…meh. He does some good things, but never looked like a player I’d cut Acho for. My one hedge is that I liked his college tape more than the NFL tape. I mention that because West Va ran a 3-3-5 defense. In Tampa he was in a 4-3. Goode doesn’t have the speed to go sideline to sideline. Playing behind a 3-man line usually means less ground to cover.
There are things to like about Goode. He has a thick, squatty build at 6-0, 245. He is a physical player. He’ll take on blocks. Tampa had him blow up FBs on iso runs. In the preseason finale, Goode broke up one pass (that he probably should have picked off) and then a few plays later made a good pick and returned it for a TD.
I just didn’t see anything special about him. He doesn’t have great instincts. He’s not speedy. He isn’t a great hitter.
I wonder if Tom Gamble maybe liked him a lot for SF’s 3-4 defense prior to the 2012 draft. Goode did look like a natural 3-4 ILB to me. It could be that the Eagles had a high grade on Goode. Ironically, I had Acho rated just above Goode in the 2012 draft rankings. I didn’t love either guy, but preferred Acho since he seemed more athletic.
The Eagles obviously value Goode since they did make the move. I hope he does prove to be a natural fit in the 3-4 and plays well.
More than a few fans are upset that the Eagles kept Casey Matthews over Acho. I agree with that. I’ve said the last few weeks that Acho looked like the #3 ILB to me. I stick by that.
I went back and re-watched 2 1/2 quarters of the Jets game to take another look at Acho, Matthews and Knott. I still like Acho best of them as an ILB. I do like Casey better in coverage and STs. Knott is the bottom of the group.
The one knock on Acho is that he can look confused on some pass plays. He’s really good on runs. He moves through traffic, finds the ball and tackles well. Some of you will throw PFF grades at me. I just re-watched the plays over again and focused on each LB. Casey did good things in coverage. There were 2 separate plays in the 1st Qtr when he knocked down the receiver. This is legal inside of 5 yards and something DeMeco Ryans is really good at. Casey must have picked it up from him. I love it. You take the guy out of the play, within the rules, and get a chance to knock the crap out of him in the process.
Casey did look better on STs from what I could tell. It can be tough to judge certain aspects without the All-22 tape, but I watched and re-watched to see what was going on as best I could.
I think Casey, Acho and Knott all played well enough this summer to deserve spots.
I thought Acho had starting potential. I didn’t see that from Goode due to his lack of speed, but again…that was in a 4-3, 1-gap speed defense. He might be a much more natural fit in the 3-4.
As an outsider, I don’t fully understand the Acho for Goode change. The coaches and personnel guys saw this as the way to go and I trust them for now. They’ve made good decisions so far this year. Not perfect, but good.
This one does have me scratching my head. I hope over time I’ll come to understand the thinking and the move will pan out.
* * * * *
The Eagles added Trenton Robinson to the practice squad. He is a 5-9, 193 S/CB. Good speed. Plays bigger than his size, but still has limitations because he is small. Played both S and CB in college. Primarily a S, but filled in at CB when needed. The Eagles needed a S with some cover skills so this is a good move.
There was a lot of buzz on Robinson prior top the 2012 draft. Some thought he could go as high as the 3rd/4th round. I never bought into the hype. Solid prospect, but you can’t ignore the size factor.
* * * * *
There is a report that the Eagles will add S Keelan Johnson to the practice squad. He’s 6-0, 209 and a good athlete. This would be a good move. We need some size back there.
_
One thing to remember, both Davis and the two LB coaches knows how to coach LBs and spot talent. So until they prove other wise, I will trust them because they have so much more information than us.
I’m willing to trust this group with LBs.
the issue is we don’t know who to trust? was this a Billy move? Chip move? I have a hard time believing Billy Davis would rather keep Casey then a guy he brought over from Cleveland who has done everything right..and I for one, couldn’t care less what chip Kelly wants on Defense. Billy Davis is the coordinator, Billy is the guy that knows these guys the best, and I have a hard time believing that Billy Davis made the call to keep Casey over Acho. I just don’t buy that.
Maybe it was Fipp’s call.
Great point. Backups must play well on ST’s. If Acho was not that good, that could be a problem.
I think we have dedicated a nice chunk on making sure our special teams is drastically improved, and I don’t believe that Casey would make us or break us…it looked to me like Acho could have been a primary backup….Guess I will add this to my “god I hope I’m wrong column”
You sound like me word for word in another post I left. We’re in TOTAL agreement!
I think nearly universally every coach and personnel guy agrees with every move. They have meetings where they discuss these things to get to that point. That might sound like it would be impossible, but it’s really not when every participant comes in with one goal, an open mind and control of their emotions.
I don’t know Tommy. In my humble opinion, I’ve seen a host of decisioins made to this point at LB that not only appeared to fly in the face of reason , they seemed to drop trow & flat out moon logic…
I’m not sure Tommy. There really have been some decisions at LB lately that in my humble opinion not only fly in the face of reason, they seem to drop trow & moon logic…
I don’t love the fact that Matthews is still on the roster either, but I thought the fanbase and media reaction to Acho getting cut today was completely over the top and uncalled for. You’d think we’d have just cut Levon Kirkland in his prime (not the Eagles’ version). I realize a large segment of the fanbase feels a distrust with the regime after the way the Andy era ended, but honest to God, can we give Chip a half a season before panicking on every move the armchair scouts disagree with? Ridiculous!
The problem is that players like McCoy and Acho flashed and therefor are bound to be HOF players (this is btw called the Baldinger syndrom or sometimes PFF syndrom).
But I mean one would have thought that after guys like Na Brown or Hunt last year, that people would overreact less to pre season and TC.
Yup…and I get the fact that if we’re forced to watch the dreck that is the preseason, it’s only natural to try to make observations and takeaway SOMETHING meaningful from the action. But the bottom line is that, due to the talent (or lack thereof) you’re going up against and the circumstances/lack of scheming, it’s nearly impossible to make useful judgements based on the games. Maybe Kelly will indeed flop, but I really doubt this move is going to make or break the 2013 Eagles or beyond.
Stop with the smug, bullshit, bound to be hall of famers crap…
Fans can’t like a backup player? We should only care about the hall of famers?
People can like backup players, problem is some people act like we just cut a super good player. Fact is 99% of the players cut and claimed around this time of year amounts to nothing more than backups or are out of the NFL in less than 1 year
Respect every position…respect all 53 spots…maybe you don’t remember the Andy days when we devalued LBs, went into seasons with Greg Lewis as punt returners….but I can’t forget the scars….Respect your roster, respect every single position on the field…the backed of the roster matters to me, and like you said, since none of us really know a damn thing, I’m not trying to be scoffed at for caring about the back end of the roster….I have no idea what this new kid did, and IMO its absurd to get rid of a primary back up, for Casey Mathews “versatility”….let’s see what happens if Mykal or Meco go down in Washington how much you are still scoffing at Acho…let’s see You then waive that Casey Mathews Flag!!
They will probably need to address LB and secondary (although maybe some of these additions pan out) in next year’s draft and offseason. Whether STs was a factor in their backup LB decisions and how much I don’t know.
I didn’t like 4 of their cuts – Shepard, Tucker, McCoy, and then Acho. But I don’t think it’s a huge deal yet. None of these guys have NFL real game experience at all.
Plus I think you have to give Kelly time which some (many? or vocal minority?) apparently feel otherwise about him. He may actually make some mistakes.
I just laughed my ass off thinking back to levon kirkland (eagles version) number 93 was the biggest guy on our entire defense. I was literary in tears. Chip Kelly hasn’t done anything at this level yet. As far as I’m concerned, he’s an inexperienced college coach with a gimmicky college offense. Until he proves otherwise, he needs to earn it.
He is unproven. His offense was not gimmicky at Oregon. He may have some plays that you might construe as gimmicky but overall his offense is not that way.
It was actually very basic. The concepts were to spread the defense out as much as possible for the run and the pass but he actually has a lot of basic plays and uses many of the same formations.
This is one of they myths about Kelly. You can read up about his offense at fishduck.com and there are actually some things written by Kelly.
Any non-conventional offense in the nfl is gimmicky imo. History tells us that they usually never work. The level of talent and coaching dwarfs anything at the college level. He’s not going to be given much of a learning curve in this city. Hope I’m wrong though. Go Birds!!!
I think you may be wrong. The NFL is plagued by nepotism and coaching has become stale.
Andy Reid didn’t go a week without a job.
The best coach in franchise history shouldn’t have gone more then a week without a job. Big Red won alot of games here. Chip Kelly has been the definition of nepotism this past training camp. How many undrafted Oregon players did he invite to camp? Please don’t tell me there weren’t more deserving kids out there. How exactly is coaching stale in the nfl?
You mean there was more deserving CAMP bodies that everybody knows have zero chance to make the team? Three Oregon ducks have made this team, 1 is the starting safety, the other is the 5th WR (and deserved it) and the other is Matthews.
Cafone state league is plagued by nepotism. Camp body or not, that is the definition of nepotism. What exactly did air maehl do to deserve a spot? Chad Hall has more skill then him.
And Reid wasn’t??!! Reid would go to a few college games a year, and since we’re not exactly living in a hotbed of college football, the Eagles would end up with draft picks from Temple and Rutgers. I’ll take camp bodies from Oregon over draft picks from the local colleges any day. You don’t find a guy like Westbrook from a school like Villanova every year – that’s the exception to the rule.
Luckily for us all, a Gator (Roseman) is running the show now so I don’t think huge mistakes like LJ Smith (Rutgers) over Witten (Tennessee) will be as common. He has some respect for the level of competition in the major conferences.
What’s non-conventional about power draw, split back stacks, and the zone-read? This is ancient stuff he’s using. Education is key, my friend.
In grand scheme of things I’m not sure a Goode for Acho exchange will mean anything this year. Maybe the Eagles FO is a lot smarter than the average fan/observer. Or maybe the FO is overthinking it.
This is going to keep players on edge. Even a guy like Acho who we all believed to be pretty safe can get cut.
We need to shift the focus from back-ups to the starters cus if they dont play well then theres going to be trouble. I’m talking Cole-Kendricks-Ryans-Barwin. They will play most/all snaps with Graham mixed in.
Based on track record and pre season, I doubt the starting 4 will be a problem.
Anders I don’t think you doubt anything about this team.
Im less optimistic about the TEs. They dropped way to many passes for my liking.
Also the depth at OLB and CB is scary
Cole and Graham do not have track records as OLBs.
Graham is not part of the starting 4 😛
From what I saw of Cole in the pre season. He will be fine.
Friendly gentlemans bet…..Graham plays more snaps this year then Trent!!!
That is a tough one. One way I hope it because that means Graham is doing very well and we are often in nickle (most likely with a lead), on the other hands, that means my favorite current Eagles Cole is not doing well.
I think Cole and Graham will both be in the nickel.
What would your preferred nickle look be?
I personally have hard time, because I want both Graham, Cole, Barwin, Curry, Cox, Ryans and Kendricks on the field in nickel and that is 1 too many.
Barwin would come off the field.
The 2nd best cover LB in a passing situation?
Right now I would most likely go with a 3-3-5 look
Graham-Cox-Curry
Barwin-Ryans-Kendricks.
All 3 LBs can blitz and be effective zone cover guys so the OL does not know who will come.
I’m doing a traditional 4-2-5 nickel and I want pass rushers up front. Graham-Cox-Curry-Cole.
Yeah, 4-2-5 is the way I’m headed as well…with a versatile backers like Barwin and Kendrick’s who can shift from coverage, and even give defenses a 5-1-5 look with Barwin moving down to the line on the fly
Cole Cox Curry Graham—Barwin Kendricks— Fletcher Boykin Williams Allen Chung
Perfect!!!
I feel your pain there…
Can acho still sign to practice squad ?
If he clears waivers yes. I don’t know when we’ll know if he got picked up, maybe tomorrow sometime.
Doubt he clears waivers though. Even if he did somehow clear waivers you have to wonder if he would join the Eagles PS if he has a chance to go to anyone else’s PS. As a player if you feel you clearly beat out two other guys at your position but you get the axe while the others remain on the roster you probably won’t want to go back to that situation again unless thats your only choice.
“Doesn’t have great instincts. Doesn’t have great speed. Sounds like a sideways move if I’m being generous. Backwards seems more realistic. I won’t even get going on the reasons I’m at a total loss on Mathews. It’s all been said. This deal bugs me because I don’t see no matter how hard I try that Acho wasn’t a better keep. I can’t even postulate that we picked him up for special teams given that unit seems strong. I’m stumped. Borderline annoyed.
I feel exactly the same way. I’ve disagreed with some bottom of the roster decisions before but this is the first time its actually really bothered me.
Acho clearly outplayed Casey and Knott in PS games. He was even praised openly by Coach Kelly for playing “smart football”. He also has a much higher upside than Casey. I agree Special Teams is a big part of the game but backup ILB can be even bigger if Ryans or Kendricks go down. Not to mention the fact that it would be nice to have an eventual replacement for Ryans on the roster at this point considering how quickly most ILBs careers can end. Lewis, Fletcher and Urlacher are exceptions to the rule. I guess Goode can fill that role at some point but Acho could have filled either ILB role with more athletic ability, height and reach. Goode will also have to learn the defense on the fly without many significant reps now that the season is starting. So basically if either ILB gets hurt this year we’ll likely see Casey in as the first replacement.
I’m sorry I’m not adding anything here to the discussion that hasn’t been mentioned before but I just had to vent. Even if Ryans and Kendricks stay healthy for years to come and this move is meaningless in the grand scheme of things it still bothers me. With C. McCoy the argument could be made against his poor run defense. Shepard was tougher to swallow considering the greater upside and ST ability but he didn’t really standout in games. But this move just sent me over the edge somehow.
Unless you have coaches tape, been at every practice and been in the film room. Saying one is better than the other is really tough.
I understand what you’re saying but that comment basically negates any statement that has ever been made on this blog or any other sports blog. None of us have that level of access so none of us should be saying anything about any roster move or coaches decision?
This site is here so we can voice our opinions and discuss the players, the personell, the team, the games and the sport. I’m just voicing my opinion.
Good point well made. It’s hard to argue with Dave S(Anders) re roster decisions though. 😉
I’ll happily argue with Anders all day 🙂 JK relax
I would hate to be fan of a team and be a Negative Nancy
Its okay to discuss it, but people on here and other places are already calling for Kelly to be fired because he let go of their pre season darlings.
My point was more, that criticizing a move is very very hard when we do not know what the coaches values (we can make educated guesses after some time) and how the players scored for the coaches.
Yeah – To be honest, I am a bit amazed at how upset people are getting at moves made at the bottom of the roster, and how some are ready to give up on this coach before they have played one game that counts. Just tells me that it is time for the season to start so we can watch how the guys at the top of the roster perform.and talk about real issues.
Why are you amazed? Fans don’t like Matthews one bit, and why should they? He has never shown anything to them (or us, I’m on that side too). Acho showed flashes at a position we bascially have ZERO depth except Matthews.
If it turns out the coaches are crazy about Knott, letting him play if Kendricks or Ryans goes down (and play well), and Matthews plays only on ST while Roseman adds an OLB (he has to do that, there is no alternative to it imho, I don’t know why we haven’t signed anyone yet) – I guess the fans will be OK with that.
Right now you have to think we’ll see Matthews on D if something happens to Ryans or Kendricks and that’s just a horrible, horrible idea. To be honest, I don’t know how that could not be a horrible idea to an Eagles fan.
There are things to like about Matthews like there were with Acho. If we were getting a guy thrown into the fire as a lateround rookie, I would agree with you, but frankly it’s unfair to act like he’ll never improve on his performance as A) a rookie and B) within an incredibly dysfunctional situation. As an outsider, I would take Acho too, but even if I’m right I don’t think casey’s a significant downgrade from Acho. And I might be wrong.
Maybe there are things to like about Matthews besides ST, never say never. But he never showed any of them, really any, while Acho got the job done. In preseason, against second and third stringers, of course, but that’s better then not even doing your job in preseason against second and third stringers.
Nobody is saying we should have kept Acho over a solid vet because he had a good preseason.
I’m over this. I thought Acho won the #3 ILB roster spot outright. However, as fans, we can only judge by what we see in preseason and the practices they open up to the public. We’ll never know the intangibles, the measurements / standards used by the coaching staff or fit for scheme.
I know we’re quibbling over essentially the bottom of the roster, but these are the players that become the foundations of your team in year 2, year 3. It’s hard to watch a player go and watch them get success elsewhere. That’s what I’m wrestling with.
At the end of the day though, a professional coaching staff evaluation > evaluation by jackpotsdad. They do this for a living, and I trust their judgment.
Go Birds!
The 53th best player is hopefully never the foundations of a team. That way you end up with guys like Akeem Jordan or Jamaar Chaney starting.
The foundation of a team is hopefully build through the draft and the first couple rounds (guys like Johnson, Ertz, Logan, Cox, Kendricks and Curry needs to be the foundation).
How dare you criticize Akeem “The Dream” Jordan!!!
Maybe we’re looking at the concept of a #3 ILB the wrong way. Kendricks and Ryans have pretty different styles/roles – maybe the #3 ILB depends on which of the starters is injured/rotated. If Kendricks were injured, I could see how Davis et al might prefer Matthews to come in to replace him rather than the bigger, run-stuffing guys.
With that in mind, it was a straight up choice between ‘is Acho the best guy available to step in if Ryans goes down?’ and it seems like they thought Goode’s skill set was an improvement. Knott is the developmental guy, Matthews is (essentially) backing up a different position/player and therefore Acho was the guy to go.
This is the best explanation that I’ve seen for this move so far. It also jives with what Howie Roseman said about not duplicating skill sets at the back end of the roster.
Looks like the “horrible 2011 draft” articles need to be updated again since we got Acho for Dion Lewis.
Still hoping they sign Ty Powell away from the Seahawks practice squad especially since we waived Acho. I heard he played LEO/SAM for them but I haven’t watched him play at all. The Goode move (no pun intended) still confuses me though.
No. (-> answer to your topic question)
Although I really try not to I can’t help to believe that sticking with Matthews has got to do something with his Oregon ties to Chip Kelly. With all due respect to better special teams play, but having a better backup on D (which Acho clearly is/was), outweighs any special teams performance in my honest and humble opinion.
That being said I give the new coaching stuff the benefit of doubt and hope that some recent roster decisions won’t come back to bite them.
Go Eagles!
Keeping Matthews over McCoy and Acho, when added to the confusing selection of Maehl over Shepard, makes it tough to ignore the Oregon connection; Allegedly, they are making these moves because of STs. Shepard was great on STs
Maehl was also good on ST, but also a better WR. Shepard offered nothing as a WR (he couldnt get open vs 2nd and 3rd string). Maehl is also a good blocking WR.
Sometimes it makes me think that you secretly work for the Eagles abroad, rigorously defending every move the front office makes. You mind if I call you Dave S(Anders)? 😉
it’s more like Dave Spa(nders)daro
Yea, because I dont believe in conspiracies, I must work for the Eagles (I wish)
we don’t need 30 st players lol….Acho was the only back up lb I quasi trusted to put in a regular season game if a starter goes down….but hey, we kept 600 st players so it’s ok
Consider Kelly is the offensive coach and have given Davis full control over the defense, I will bet that keeping Matthews is a Davis move and not a Kelly move. If Davis told Kelly that Acho is much much better than Matthews, then Matthews would not be on the team.
That how ever is not the case from what I can understand from Tommy (I havnt studied them so I cant tell and I have learned a long time ago that my eye test during games is crap).
Well, why did Davis trade for Acho in the first place then?!
Because he hadnt coached Matthews and Knott yet over an extended period of time?
you are assuming that this was Billy’s call
I agree with the sentiments here and do not like the move but we traded a knucklehead who had no shot sticking on this team at arguably our deepest position.
What has me scratching my head is why we are not making a move on a legit OLB. I know they are not easy to find but I would feel better if we had one more guy there.
Olb is a premier position on this defense, yet we have more TEs, then OLBs..head scratcher!!!!….of course we are supposed to believe that Casey is just better then every OLB that’s available
Well find me that OLB that is available.
Its the same with safeties. There is only so few of them that can both cover, rush the passer and stop the run, while also been a good ST player.
Considering Gamble’s ties to SF, I was surprised when Indy got Cam Johnson for a 7th. I don’t know how good he will be, but considering he spent a year in their 3-4 behind some pretty good guys, and the Eagles’ lack of depth there, you’d think this might have been a move they could have made.
or maybe it is telling that we didnt trade for him? Also Indy really have nothing at OLB (Both Mathis and there top draft picks is not OLBs at all)
It’s possible they’re waiting till after week 1 for some moves (CB, S, OLB), as veterans won’t have a guaranteed salary at that point. We’ll see…
No way I believe that…I would be shocked if this was a billy Davis move….this has chip and howie written on it if you ask me….
…
they tried to sell the fans that bullshit that Casey could backup OLB as well as ILB, well they actually went out a guy who is an ILB/OLB tweeter…..I have NO BEEF with Goode, but my did Acho have to go?
I did think it was funny when howie mentioned Casey could back up ILB, as well as rush the passer from OLB. I just kinda sat there and said, “That would be great if it were true.”
Anyone watch the Florida State game? Looks like we’ll have a new QB to obsess over for the 2015 draft…
One thing I haven’t seen discussed is who is the D miked up player, and who will run the D if they are injured?
I could see that Matthews has an edge there and its one of the things that Acho might have struggled with.
DeMeco has the headset. I’d think that Kendricks should be capable of taking over in that area too if Ryans went down though.
Im pretty sure Kendricks got the headset.
I just went back and checked out the Jags and Panthers games. DeMeco had the green dot on his helmet. Either way if one of them goes down I’d assume the other one would get the dot before Matthews or whoever steps in off the bench.
Also, in response to Dan’s comment they weren’t really huddling on D either. Coaches are sending in signals and showing signs pretty similar to the way they do on offense so I doubt the headset played a key role in the decision of who should have been let go when they picked up Goode.
Kendricks worked out with it in practice, bu I believe primarily it goes to Meco
I posted this sentiment in the previous post, but putting Acho vs. Matthews aside, was Acho really the 53rd best player on this roster? I would think as far as bottom of the roster competition that Acho > Coleman/Poyer. It would make us heavy at ILB, but we are carrying 5 safeties with 2 on the PS.
I just don’t understand. I get that Kelly loves versatility, but keeping a shitty player because he can be shitty at two positions instead of serviceable at just one seems stupid to me. I’m willing to go on faith, but man this makes me scratch my head.
Good post…I feel your pain Brah lol
You need 5 CBs to be functional during the season (starting 2, 1 nickel, 1 dime and 1 100% backup).
Again Coleman is a very good backup safety, that is good enough to be spot starter but you are screwed if he starts more than 1 game.
Coleman suffer from the same faith as Matthews that he was never a starter, but was forced into been a starter behind the crappiest defensive scheme I have ever witnessed
We have 6 corners. Williams, Fletcher, Boykin, Hughes, new guy, and Poyer. Hughes is out for now, but from what I understand, he will be back at some point.
I agree that Coleman is a good backup. I’ll never question his effort, but he just isn’t built for a starting position. He also had the unfortunate task of playing behind a wide 9. But we also have Colt Anderson who also is a decent backup who id someone you dont want as a regular starter and a special teams ace. To me, if you have Anderson, Coleman is redundant.
is Coleman better than Acho? Is Poyer better than Acho? Are any of the other guys at the bottom of the roster better than Acho? I just don’t see Acho as the 53rd guy on the roster.
The first guy I would have knocked off the roster is Maehl.
We need 5 WRs the same way we need 5 CBs (essential 3 starters and 2 backups)
I don’t think so necessarily, because we can use a TE or RB in lieu of a 4th WR. I’d rather go short there.
With Ertz (and his stone hands) having the ability to line up outside and Casey having some time in the slot, I think you could absolutely get away with 4.
It’s not ideal, but maybe we add another WR during the season. But we could definitely get away with 4 for awhile.
We don’t really have 3 starters for WR anymore. So I’m not really seeing this argument.
I saw a lot of 3 wr look during the pre season (might have been 3 wide with only 2 WR 1 split te).
Maybe it is just the many years of AR that are still clouding my mind, but I would not fell comfortable with only 4 wrs on the roster
Why?
I could see if we had good depth at the position, but how often were you going to use Maehl?
It had nothing to do with Maehl. Its just like Im not comfortable with only 3 OLBs.
Or hated when we only had 2 TEs on the roster (see last year when we sometimes played without 1)
I do think we need another OLB. But I think we can get away with 4 WR since we don’t have a good 5th WR.
I also see this as a fluid situation. You might get away light at a position through the first week, and then sign a veteran after week 1 (avoiding guaranteeing his salary throughout the entire year).
Honestly, if it was Jackson Maclin Avant Johnson Cooper, then I doubt we’d be seeing anyone(self included) mind 5 WR.
I value safety and CB more than ILB, so for me even tho Poyer and Coleman might be slightly worse player, there positional value makes em more valuable for me.
I dont see Anderson as a quality backup safety. He is even worse than Coleman (by a fair margin for me, but I can understand if you feel other wise).
I keep picking on Poyer/Coleman, but there are other guys at the back end of roster that could be cut. ICDogg pointed out Maehl.
This whole thing is just me struggling to understand why Acho was cut.
Preseason is a big mirage, an illusion where we only see a small part of a big picture. The coaches ultimately are deciding who they have the most confidence in to play against real NFL players in real games. The guys we see dominating 2nd and 3rd stringers might have looked great to us, but we shouldn’t fool ourselves… most of these guys aren’t going to be great players.
The coaches see these guys in practice every day. They have a good sense for how good they can and cannot be. A guy might look great at one level but it turns out he doesn’t have major league speed. Or maybe they don’t think he is consistently busting his butt. Bottom line, they know a lot of things we don’t know and can’t know.
I’m not of the delusion that I know more about these things than the coaches. They’ve dedicated a good portion of their lives to becoming good coaches and learning how to evaluate and work with talent, and can tell more about what to do than a bunch of us watching TV and YouTube videos.
Don’t get me wrong, I know that coaches have forgotten more about football than I currently know. And also that preseason ball can give you a false positive. Joe Mays is a great example of that, but when guys like Tommy, Jimmy K, McManus and Sheil are also confused by a move, it makes me even more confused.
If I like a player and he’s cut, I just assume I suck at player evaluation, but when guys who watch film and have been covering the game for a long time have the same “Wut?” reaction, I definitely question it.
Yeah, but let’s put it in perspective. There’s a pretty good betting chance that neither the player we got nor the player we gave up are ever going to be important NFL players.
And it becomes something like “Was it a mistake to cut Trent Edwards in favor of Mike Kafka” last year.
I think part of the issue may be carry over from the end of the Reid era. There were any number of situations where that staff made decisions that didn’t smell right, and in the end they weren’t. So now fandom sees a decision that doesn’t smell right, and we’re used to being right about its wrongness.
___
Still, with the strength of some of the reactions I’ve read you’d think Acho stepped in and stopped Casey from beating up their mom.
I don’t think anyone thinks they know more then the coaches, I think it’s more of a case of people questioning their motives…..Like really Remington is on the PS? you couldn’t find 1 better player then Remmington in all of football waivers?…please don’t feed me the BS of how versatile he is since he played two practices at Oline lol…Dude will never play a snap of nFL Oline in his life, so no he isn’t versatile, he is a Dlineman. .
…
Is it a case of there isn’t much difference between back ups so might as well show loyalty to Casey? PLayers and Fans were told that the 53 players who performed the best would make the team…now everyone knows that won’t always be the case. Watkins can outplay todd all he wants, but Todd is staring regardless…but especially in the back end of the roster is where you should really open up the competition,,,,I didn’t get to see as much as the coaches saw, so if the coaches thought Casey performed better, then so be it I can live with that….but howie isn’t gonna sit here and tell me that Casey is more versatile and Casey is going o rush the passer because that’s just crazy talk…Ultimately I don’t know who played best overall but the players do, and I don’t care if us fans are ok with it, my concern is that the locker room is ok with it
A practice squad has multiple purposes, one of which is, well, having enough guys at the various positions with whom to practice. Since anyone can grab anyone off anyone else’s practice squad, it is not a big deal who you put there, if he’s talented, some team will likely find him and sign him.
In the case of Matthews, it may well be that the coaches have a more positive view of him and what he brings to the table than the fans and the media do.
And I’m not saying we shouldn’t all have our own opinions about whether these were the right moves or not. I am just respecting the coaches’ knowledge and their motivations, not saying that they’re right or they’re wrong.
Yeah, people aren’t ready to accept that there is a possibility that Casey Matthews in 2013 might be improved over Casey Matthews in 2011.
Those are the people who close their eyes and see “Ahmad Bradshaw runs a wheel route.” Matthews will be forever unredeemable to those people.
He couldn’t cover Brandon Jacobs (who outweighed Matthews by 30 lbs at least) either.
I know what play you talk about and Jacobs is actually faster in straight line than him. There is more to coverage as an ILB than straight line speed tho
You’re right, it was “Brandon Jacobs runs a wheel route.” You bringing it up just proves my point.
Haha. I mentioned that on another thread. Too bad he has had more irredeemable play than just that one bad play. The guy has shown sever subpar play (and thats being nice) year after year. That’s all some fans need to know to want him gone. And ST is not enough for those fans who want him gone to change their minds. Especially when his ST play was not all that impressive last year and nowhere near the level of Anderson!
This kid is an ILB/OLB tweeter….makes me think that they figured they could add depth at two positions with this kid, but releasing Acho and keeping Casey is an absolute joke, and please let’s not sugar coat it
Sorry I fiorgot Casey was the second coming of Ikke Reese. My bad
yeah. you obviously know more than Chip Kelly. You troll a message board telling us so much and let’s not sugarcoat that.
Why visit a message board? Why not just visit a thread every morning and at the beginning of the day just type: I am a mindless sheep who blindly agrees with everything the Eagles do, and Howie can do no wrong”…Just type that every morning and you will save a ton of time….by the way, I think you spelled your name wrong, JULESpus
you obviously are some sooper genius who knows more about the Eagles and football than the coach. You do all this without ever attending a practice and are probably drunk through every game.
take your mancrush on Acho to some gay crush board.
I rarely take issue with your assessments, but a cursory internet search produces several discrepancies:
– At the combine, Goode produced a 35 vert and 40 times ranging from 4.55 to 4.64 at 244 pounds, so he’s more athletic than any ILB they have besides Kendricks. He’s considered a “workout warrior” who squats 600+ and has the upper body strength to take on blockers. The biggest fear is his short arms vs Acho- we’ve seen Acho use those long arms to his advantage in getting off blocks.
– Acho lacked the bulk to set the edge at LOLB or take on the blocker at SILB, so Goode’s superior strength makes him a better backup behind Barwin and Ryans. Knott and Matthews can back up Kendricks, so they needed a player with “a different skillset”. Even if Acho is a better WILB than Goode, the former’s skillset was redundant, making the latter’s versatility more desirable on the 53 man roster.
– Being a ‘tweener in WVU’s 3-3-5 might actually be a plus in Billy Davis’s eyes.(I want to call him “Bill” Davis just because of that dumb song) He filled a variety of roles and multiple gaps, being responsible for a lot of open field.
I agree that Acho was their 3rd best ILB and its possible the team did as well, but their rationale in cutting him can be understood with the following:
-Knott is their developmental ILB, perceived as having the most upside. They’re keeping him to see if he develops into a starting caliber LB, with DeMeco’s contract in mind.
-Matthews is their 2nd best coverage linebacker and an underrated blitzer. Considering the LBs shakiness in coverage and Davis’s increased reliance on the WILB blitz, those skills gave him an edge. I’ve never been a fan, but Matthews impressed me this preseason with his increased willingness to take on blockers, rather than duck around them. Matthews has also become somewhat of a “core” special teams player.
Essentially, Matthews’s superior coverage skills, relative experience and central role on special teams meant he was making this squad. Although Knott should be on the PS, they apparently saw something in him they couldn’t risk losing. The value of being the “3rd best ILB” in the preseason diminishes with healthy players at his position, and Goode’s versatility was considered a less redundant use of roster space. They realized Acho, Matthews or Knott could sub for Kendricks, but none fit well anywhere else.
I’m not saying I agree with this move, just trying to explain their rationale. Its entirely possible that the Eagles front office still believes Acho is a better player than Goode, but “the better player” is rarely the #1 concern when you’re talking about the 53rd roster spot
Very nice
Thanks, baxter (we know you’re really howie) 322!
Re: The Oregon Trail
Eagles bring back OL/DT Ike Remington from OU.
http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2013/09/03/eagles-practice-squad-tracker/#disqus_thread
Green is the new blue.
All they need to do is bring back Will Murphy and Dixon and the Oregon conspiracy guys will go into a feeding frenzy. 🙂
In all seriousness, I dislike this move too. Isaac didn’t impress even at Oregon.
He’s versatile though, he can play both offense and defensive lines in practice. Say one week we have two or three DL hurt, he can practice on that side of the ball for the scout team. Then a few weeks later a few OL get nicked up he can just bounce right back over. From a practice standpoint he’s extremely valuable in that regard.
The most important thing to keep in mind with these moves is that our team is going to likely be bad even if we never need our backups. And still, we’re talking about backups, that may never see the field. That leaves you with two options:
1. Go with Acho, who is not ready to be a starter. If the the starter goes down, you’re screwed.
2. Go with Matthews, who is not ready to be a starter. If the starter goes down you’re screwed, but until then your special teams are better.
Colts cut Safety Jon Boyet…and since we have become a haven for all Oregon Mutts, welcome to Philly kid…I will expect the announcement in the next few hours
We may be mutts but we do well in a dog fight.
I actually like Boyett to tell you the truth…just giving Yous a hard time for Casey “the ugly duckling” Mathews…
..
heck, I wanted to keep Maehl
We don’t seem to be taking any flyers on guys like Dontay Moch or Ras-I Dowling who have superior athleticism (or Russell Shepard for that matter). Parys Haralson was available via trade, but I never heard the Eagles mentioned. It’s like Howie took a week off for Labor Day.
Moch is on somebody’s practice squad, Dowling do not a team and is injured.
I bet the Eagles wanted Shepard on the PS over Salas, but he got claimed.
Friggin aggrivated that my boys dexter McCoil and Rontez Miles made NFL rosters…You BGNers laughed at my man love for those unheralded long shots, surprise surprise they are on Rosters lol
I liked McCoil and I know a few others did as well.
But Yous like to talk your trash regardless…heck Yous can’t even keep my name out of an article lol
I know Moch was picked up, but why not by the Eagles? The lack of aggressiveness in filling out the PS and end of roster has been frustrating. Especially when you consider Howie’s wheeling & dealing during the preseason.
The working of the bottom half of the roster has me scratching my head a bit, and not because I assume the people in charge are dumb.
It seems that chip emphasizes the 46 that dress on game day a great deal. 22 starters, 24 role players. The back 24 guys have many roles to play apparently and versatility is emphasized. Naturally when you fill the back 24 with versatile career back-ups (like Mathews), jacks of all trades, masters of none sorts, and cut prospects (like Acho), it raises some concerns about the long term health of the franchise. There are 7 spots open for prospects who don’t dress on game day who fit the description of not good enough to take a starting job yet, but will be poached on the practice squad (or waiver wire). Still, I’d prefer our future be dressed on game day and be worked into the rotation.
This philosophy reminds me of Bill Belichick a little. But I always found Julian Edelman playing at db to be embarrassing to the state of his roster, not particularly clever. Oh well, can’t complain too much about the litany of similarities to a successful coach like Belichick.
Fun or depressing exercise. How many of our back-ups are you projecting to be starters, not role players, in our future? I got Earl Wolff….annnnd….Barbre or Kelly on the O-line? Hoping more than believing Chip and Davis aren’t too smart to figure out a way to harness Vinny Curry’s talent. Bennie Logan looks to figure into our future as well. Mmmmm I’ll add Ertz to the list of course. Leaving Barkley off for now, need to see how much he grows.
Good post and food for thought. Chip does put a premium on ST; hopefully he won’t overcompensate to the detriment of development.
Many coaches see Chip as a master of talent but many fans are now questioning his judgment. The verdict is still out for me, but I tend to feel that since he is surrounded by coaches with many years of NFL experience he will not ignore their advice.
Ultimately, Chip defies convention. Questions come with the territory. Good thing is it isn’t because he’s contrarian, he has sound logic behind everything he does, logic that’s taken him a long way. He’s one of those guys I feel like even if he is totally wrong, he can figure it out and get back on track.
As for the defense and it’s personnel, it’s going to be a sore subject in this fan base. For years we’ve seen poor personnel decisions or mismanagement. Even when we do land good talent, we’ve utterly failed to put it in a situation to succeed and grow.
You bring up a interesting theory point that I haven’t really thought of before in terms of the back of the roster construction. Is it better to keep a couple lottery tickets (Acho) that flashed some promise in the preseason (and probably wouldn’t make it through waivers) but would basically be a wasted roster spot this year or stock up on guys you know can give you something if you need them to. Mostly special teams contribution and position versatility.
“it raises some concerns about the long term health of the franchise. ”
Terrible drafting since 2005 minus 2009 (and potential 2012/13) have left the Eagles really empty both in blue chip prospects and back end of the roster
In terms of backups, Wolff, Boykin, Knott, Curry, Logan, Kelly, Foles, Ertzs, D Johnson.
We also have guys like Brown and Polk there could be starters in the rest of the NFL. We get Benn back next year that should be penciled as starter if Maclin does not return.
Remember we also got some young guys starting a key positions such as Kendricks, Cox and Johnson.
Clearly, Chip just had a bad experience with gazpAcho in his past. Scarred him for life. Will probably never eat cold soup again. Can’t say I blame him.
Good one.
Y’know. Everyone’s arguing over who should’ve been occupying positions 51-53 on this roster. There’s really only enough talent there for around 46 in the first place. If CK wants to keep an Oregonian or two, who tf cares? It’s not like Acho or Shepard were going to take us over the hump to the Super Bowl.
A lot of people share your opinion, but it is shortsighted. Why shouldn’t the Eagles fill the inactive/practice squad spots with the best available players? These 15 slots should be a mix of guys who can play adequately in emergencies and guys with potential that you can develop. Not maximizing these spots is sloppy player development and team management and as a fan, I care.
Oh come now. We have 6 or 7 “players” that are not and never will be effective NFL starters. And the “talent” being let go by other teams falls into that category, too. I’ll worry about those last two positions in another draft or two…assuming they’re more like 2012-2013 than 2010-2011.
Mostly, I agree. Occasionally you get lucky picking someone up at this stage but it is very much the exception.
As Whitey used to say; “A guy bats 8th for a reason, Harry.”
Here are just a few reasons why it matters – Jason Peters, Arian Foster, James Harrison, Kurt Warner, Rod Smith and Tony Romo all started out on the practice squad.
and Tom Brady was a 6th round pick.
Fact is majority of UDFA and low round draft picks never become anything. Just because once in a blue moon there is a good player coming from the PS does not mean you should bitch and whine over losing the 53th best player on the team.
Bitch and whine? Really?? I guess you didn’t major in intelligent conversation.
That’s my point. The place for true projects is the Practice Squad. If you have a couple you need to stash because their higher ceiling is too obvious, you have them in the 53 and they’re inactive on game day. We already have projects in the form of Tobin, Square, Poyer and, to a lesser extent, Knott and Geathers on the 53. If an ILB goes down, we don’t know yet if Knott can play. Mathews can, albeit marginally adequately. And, as ICDogg has explained, who’s to say he can’t/hasn’t improved?
You also don’t save projects who 1) don’t fit the physical profile (Acho) or 2) will be too old by the time they’re ready (McCoy).
While I might quibble that I would’ve liked to see them keep Shepard over Maehl, it’s really no big deal. You can beat me up in a couple years if anyone they released makes it. (Of course, I reserve to define “makes”… e.g it isn’t Joe Mays.)
This reminds me of a few years ago when we cut Jerome McDougle and the G-men picked him up. Everyone (myself included) had a conniption fit over that.
Then he didn’t do squat with them and he was out of the league after that.
Lesson learned: The bottom of the roster is the bottom of the roster.
Let’s worry about something that really matters: Our starting CBs vs. RGIII next week (now THAT’S scary!).
And if you need some comic relief, click on the Now This Is Funny Link under Tommy’s “Eagles Blog Feed” in the right hand column.
Seeing the photo with Jay Cutler as a real bear is priceless!
spot on
Most likely Fipp probably got to pick 2-3 players beside K, P, and LS to keep. Colt being number 1 and with the loss of Jordan he decided to go with our next best in terms of special team tackles. I’d much rather still have Jordan on this roster than Matthews.
The thing that concerns me is that in rebuilding years you still have to reserve a few spots at the back end for talent over versatility, otherwise you’re just building mediocrity. These could potentially be the core of our future. It seemed like Acho improved throughout each preseason game. My knock on Matthews is that for any bubble guy in a final preseason game, he clearly did not show up, he even managed to become a hindrance to the team by breaking up a Poyer tackle. For bubble guys that final game is where you show you belong in the league and may be more important than any other game that they’ll ever play. If you aren’t clutch when it matters most for your future, will you ever be clutch when it matters most for your team.
According to article in nj.com “I did a lot more coverage in college, so I am more used to that,” Knott
said. “But I am starting to get used to rushing, and the techniques
involved in that.”
I’d guess that the coaches thought his coverage skills were much more advanced than Acho’s and saw enough upside in his pass rush to coach and develop him.
The bottom line is that we Eagles fans have earned the right to always be right. When Coach makes a call that I disagree with, there are two posible outcomes. One, if I am later proven correct, I retain my superiority, and brag and gloat as much as possible. Second, if I am proven wrong, I immediately ignore the facts and return to bragging about when I was right.
I know you are being tongue-in-cheek, but I do think there is plenty of value of discussing whether or not the coaches made a correct decision or not. In fact, I think that is why most of us are all here discussing topics on this blog. I don’t deny for a second that CK, Howie Roseman, and the rest of that Eagles staff know 1000x more about football than I do or than really anyone who comments here does, but football isn’t a game of exact science where there are clearly right and wrong answers. Every single year through the draft alone we see coaches miss on players and having wrong evaluations. That doesn’t make them bad at their job by any means, most of these guys, if not all of them throughout the league got to their respective positions on the team because they have been successful (and better than their peers at the time of their hiring) in the past using their strategies. Still, it also means that because there is evidence that all coaches and FOs make mistakes, we are entitled to debate whether or not the team made the right move.
My personal view is that every single move that the front office makes is carefully thought out and backed by a strong/reasonable argument. I don’t know what their reasoning was with Casey over Acho, but I am sure they had a reasonable one. Having said that, based on what we have seen and heard about the two players, it is a very debatable decision and questioning whether Kelly made the right one doesn’t make a fan any less of a fan. Kelly may prove to be 100% right, but at least for me, what makes it fun to come to igglesblitz or any other blog is to discuss the moves as they happen and try predicting and debating how successful or unsuccessful a move will be.
Very true. I’ve gotten some more insight to Acho and Matthews decisions today. Not that I agree with them, just I can understand the decision tree better.
I’m right with you. Yea, of course I was just goofing around. Part of my point, though, is that I can afford to be as opinionated as I want to be. I have no accountability (as long as Tommy deletes my previous posts!) and there’s nothing resting on my being right and wrong.
Is there value in our discussion? Damn right. That’s why we spend countless hours watching our Birds and conversing with each other. The Eagles, and this blog, are a big part of my quality of life. If this is a crime, I hope I’m judged by a jury of my peers. Sure to be found innocent by reason of insanity.
The problem with our discussion is that we’re trying to handicap horse races without being privy to all the information on the racing form. We don’t get to see practices, don’t get to watch guys interact in the locker room and on the field, and don’t know what they were supposed to be doing when they made the spectacular TFL.
Re: Bubble Boys
Commenter Jaren makes an interesting suggestion: Fipp was allowed to pick 2-3 guys besides K-P-LS.
If true, maybe Matthews was not on the bubble at all. Maybe he’d locked up a special team’s position.
Way back when — around the time of Chip Fever in January(?) — Kelly remarked that he liked to have LBs (and, it follows, to use a 3-4) because they can play special teams.
Well, Cole’s not a ST guy. Barwin’s not gonna play ST. Nor MK and DR.
On cutdown day, that left Graham and McCoy outside and Matthews, Acho, and Knott inside.
Maybe Graham’s on ST. He played during Exhibition games.
Knott? He’s the most likely LB not to be active on game day.
So Chipper and Roseman — I mean Chipper, since he picks the roster — had to chose from Matthews, Acho, and McCoy.
Of the three, maybe — and I’m just spit-balling — Matthews sewed up a ST job when compared to his competition.
And, while T-law’s noted McCoy’s point-of-attack problems, I’d equally point to ST’s as just as likely an issue.
Really . . . only the green shadow of Chip Kelly knows.
Agree completely. Just a thought exercise, if Fipp did pick 3 guys, they would be Matthews, Anderson, and… Maehl?
I would suspect Coleman sneaking into his ..No? Since its the only reason most people assume that he is here
I think Coleman is there because he is a decent backup safety and decent backup safeties are surprisingly difficult to find.
Jake Knott’s a poor man’s Luke Keuchley.
A very poor man’s LK.
Keeks was the 9th overall pick. Ryans is a poor man’s Kuechly.
Knott is also a poor man’s Cushing. I see Cushing just got a big deal – 21 million guaranteed.
I realize it was one play but Knott made a terrific block on one of Johnson’s long returns (I can not recall which one sorry), he’d have had a solid return and Knott turned it into a big return. Just saying.
So what you’re saying is Matthews is a poor man’s Knott.
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I’d love to hear (that is, read) T-Law’s “best case” projection on Knott vis a vis Kuechley.
No question, as our Host kind of suggested, Kuechley’s looking like a once in a (football) generation MLB.
Where on the continuum is Knott?
_______________
Tommy, can you hear me?
Casey is like a Knott that you can’t get undone.
I bet he’s hoping he can’t feel you near him, either…
Aren’t we all a poor man’s someone?!
I’ve been mostly pleased or atleast unsurprised at most of the work that got us to 53. That said, there have been a whole host of decisions made are LB that appeared to me to flat out drop trow and moon logic.
Acho clears waivers. Eagles could add him to PS… eventually.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/9/3/4691590/former-eagles-linebacker-emmanuel-acho-clears-waivers
This is for all your Carrier pigeons out there
http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/49ers-Add-TE-Carrier-to-Practice-Squad/ac0189b6-5727-4cc8-94d5-37143f290abd
Duplicate post
So according to Eagles site via The Howie Roseman Show on 94WIP, Howie basically said Knott was ahead of Acho and they like Goode as a Kendricks backup but Acho had a great preseason. That’s the explanation even if that’s obvious.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Acho was brought back at some point.
According to twitter they want him back in the future, but because of DB and OL injuries, they need other PS bodies right now.
Jo-Lonn Dunbar was cut by the Rams. Should we be interested?
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