Don’t Overlook Nick
Posted: January 27th, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 398 Comments »Nick Foles posted great numbers in 2013, but was then highly erratic in 2014 before getting hurt at midseason. Right now he is the Eagles best option heading into 2015.
Is that a bad thing?
Not necessarily.
We could speculate for days on why Foles took a step back in 2014. Those would all be guesses, though. Let’s stick to some facts for now. The first and biggest factor had to be the OL. Look at the group for each game.
1 – Peters – Mathis – Kelce – Herremans – Barbre
Those guys started. Barbre got hurt early and Andrew Gardner then played RT. Mathis got hurt and David Molk took over at LG.
2 – Peters – Kelly – Kelce – Herremans – Gardner
3 – Peters – Kelly – Kelce – Herremans – Gardner
Kelce got hurt and Molk played C most of the 2nd half. Peters got ejected in the 4th Qtr and Gardner took his place.
4 – Peters – Tobin – Molk – Kelly – Herremans
5 – Peters – Tobin – Molk – Herremans – Johnson
6 – Peters – Tobin – Molk – Herremans – Johnson
7 – Peters – Tobin – Molk – Herremans – Johnson
Herremans got hurt in the 4th Qtr and was replaced by Gardner
8 – Peters – Tobin – Kelce – Herremans – Johnson
Herremans got hurt in the 2nd half and was replaced by Gardner.
Think about this. Foles had 3 different OL start their first ever game in the NFL while blocking for him this year. Dennis Kelly started his first ever game at LG. Last year Foles had the same 5 guys blocking for him virtually every snap of the season.
Aside from blocking, there were some receiver issues. Veteran slot receiver Jason Avant was replaced by rookie Jordan Matthews. It took Matthews a couple of games to get his feet under him. He was terrific once he did. Riley Cooper took a step back this year. He was a playmaker in 2013. Not so much this year, to put it mildly.
Foles still made too many mistakes, no matter what the reason. He failed to see some wide open receivers. He had the terrible fumble against the Rams that made that game tougher than it should have been. Foles threw a pair of terrible INTs in the Giants game. He was just sloppy.
At the same time, Foles went 6-2 as the starter. And the Eagles easily could have won the 2 games that ended as losses. Cooper failed to catch a great pass in the end zone that would have given the Eagles a lead with about a minute left in the SF game. There were numerous chances on offense and defense to win the ARZ game.
One of the biggest arguments for Foles is that he has the presence of a starting QB. Like it or not, intangibles matter at that position. Foles always takes the blame when things go wrong. He always shares the praise when things go right. His teammates seem to genuinely love him.
The Eagles had 3 impressive comeback victories to open the 2014 season. Foles made some really key plays in the wins over WAS and IND. He was clutch. Mark Sanchez won 4 games as the starter. There were blowouts of TEN, DAL and CAR. There was a tight win over the Giants in the season finale. When things were good with Sanchez, they were very good. He did lead the Eagles back from deficits in games against DAL and WAS, but ended up losing both. An INT by Sanchez really hurt the Eagles in the Cowboys game and an INT ended the Skins game.
Foles played in a huge game late in the 2013 season. He led the Eagles to a win over Dallas that secured the NFC East title and a playoff berth. When Foles left the field in the playoff game against the Saints, the Eagles had the lead. He’s not scared of the big moments. He can handle pressure situations, which is one of the key tests for how good a QB really is.
Watch these 2013 highlights. You forget how good Foles looked at times.
I’m not telling you Foles is the answer at QB and the Eagles are all set. I do think we might be a bit quick in dismissing him. I don’t know that the Eagles are going to find a better QB for 2015. And I think Foles can play a lot better than he did in 2014.
The one issue that can’t be ignored is durability. Foles has gotten hurt in each of his 3 NFL seasons. If he is the Eagles starter this year, they need a quality backup in place.
Chip Kelly will keep looking for QBs until he finds his guy, but it is possible that guy is already on the team. The 2014 version of Foles looked like someone you would want as your backup. The 2015 version better be a whole lot better if he plans on remaining a starting QB.
It is easy to say we’d prefer a true franchise QB to Foles. It would be great to have a clear-cut star to build the franchise around. But that is an abstract idea. Reality says we need to judge Foles against available players. Would you rather have Foles or Jay Cutler? Foles or Kirk Cousins? Geno Smith? Brian Hoyer? Would you trade Foles straight up for Johnny Football right now?
If somehow Marcus Mariota falls to pick 12 or 15 or something like that and you can go for him, fine. I just think that is extremely unlikely. There are too many other teams ahead of the Eagles that are desperate for QB help.
If Foles isn’t the guy for 2015, who is?
You can draft Brett Hundley or Bryce Petty or Blake Sims and try to develop them, but none of those guys are ready to play. Unless Chip Kelly can pull off a miracle, it sure seems like Foles will be the best option for starting QB in 2015.
GE’s Off Season Plan v1.0
Draft (5 rounds only, simulated by Fanspeak)
20: R1P20
CB JALEN COLLINS
52: R2P20
ILB ERIC KENDRICKS
84: R3P20
WR SAMMIE COATES
110: R4P14
WR DEVIN SMITH
116: R4P20
CB ERIC ROWE
148: R5P20
OLB TONY WASHINGTON
Free Agency:
– Re-sign Maclin (5 years, 52.5 million, 18 mio gtd)
– Sign S Devin McCourty (6 years, 59 million, 20 mio gtd)
– Sign G Carpenter (4 years, 29 million, 12 mio gtd)
– Sign CB Chris Culliver (3 years, 12 million, 6 mio gtd)
– Re-structure Trent Cole
– Re-structure Demeco Ryans
– Re-structure James Casey
– Cut Todd Herremans
– Cut Cary Williams
– Cut Riley Cooper
you practically swaggeracked my entire mock offseason..
…
jalen collins my fav corner prospect since desmond trufant
..
erik kendrivck, no one ever mentioned him before i did
..
devin smith, my perfect deep ball threat opposite maclin
..
james carpenter, reuniting stoutland with former first round bust starting to play better
..
McCourty, #1 eagle wish list, the perfect fit in every way
.
chip will def draft Tony Washington in the mid rounds…
..
culliver is a jackass who wont even be considered due to being a scumbag
…
you arent building depth if you cut herremans and sign Carpenter..
…
you got my vote, since its practically the blue print i been laying out for months lol
heh. insecure much?
on my dick much? consistently…..inferiority complex much?? you want an autograph.. i love how this bitch reads my every word, yet you cant get me to read more then 2 sentences of yours per week…. you sweat someone who thinks NOTHING of you, who barely pays you attention, and you read my every word and memorioze it hahahahahahahahahaha. 90% of your comments are minimized from my screen before i can read more than two words LOL yet you keep swinghing from mny nuts under everything i post? pathetic poor excuse of a man
3 words < whatever this is. I guess it's you not reading or responding though.
I believe the point he made is that your comments to GermanEagle were backhanded in that you felt it necessary to try to convince the readership that these are, in fact, your ideas. Twice. Beginning and end.
So you got called out. Let it go. For someone who doesn't care about all the people on your "nutz", you sure react poorly to them. Like I can't tell if you're 14 or 35 poorly.
You can't dish out sh*t here about "fanboys" and "donkeys" and then have a tantrum when someone clearly views you similarly.
Well you can – but it kinda proves their point.
You have a dick?
Didn’t know Culliver was scum. What did he do?
Also if the Eagles sign Carpenter I don’t think he will come in here as a backup. Same with Todd who’d probably like to start.
I’ll give you Carpenter though. Like that idea.
McCourty I brought up well before you could spell him. Lol.
You’re probably right with Coop, because of the dead money. But how my draft fell he just became unnecessary.
Edit: my response was directed to GEAGLE, not you. Sorry.
Releasing Coop doesn’t make sense financially. And you can’t really claim that he can’t be at least a #4 WR for your team.
I do think we should sign Todd as 6th man for the O-Line. While you grow a few young guns at 7, 8 and 9 + PS.
2016, Mathis will be gone, Carpenter would be a starter + hopefully one of the young guns.
I would love to keep the Toddfather. However only if he’s willing to take a pay cut AND be happy with a reserve role.
reserve role? thats not happening pal. todd will get every chance to fight for his spot in camp.. if he isnt a starter and his role gets reduced, it means he lost the camp battle, you aint signing anyone and immediately demoting todd… that has to play out in camp
Well, all GermanEagles is saying (I think…) is let Carpenter and Todd battle it out. 😉
that would be accurate…. a long time eagle who played thru a shit ton of injuries is going to get a chance to fight for his job in camp, he isnt getting demoted the moment we sign 2011 first round bust james Carpenter… i like Carpenter because i think he is starting to get it together and like Barwin will play his best ball during his second contract…. but Iupati is a signing that gets a starting job day one….Carpenter aint that type of signing, especially with how much we respect herremans
While we’re at Iupati – let’s ignore Todd for a minute, does he fit into our zone blocking scheme?
He’s kind of interesting to me because we have to replace Mathis in 2016, maybe 2017, but sooner than later. He’s a very good run blocker, but seems like the Mauler type to me – but I’m no O-Line expert. Don’t know if he would fit.
He didn’t play a good 2014 season, so the price could be reasonable.
some will say he doesnt fit… and stylistically, thats probably a fair argument. he probably isnt ideal for our scheme, but i think he is one of the really talented OL who can play in any scheme….niners were much more power based than we were, but they also ran all types of zone reads similar to us….
…
ideally he should probably play in a power blockingscheme, but i think he is talented enough to play for any team in the NFL…..now THATS someone you can sign, and immediatly cut Herremans if you want…Carpenter was a first round bust who is recently getting it together to be the player he was supposed to be. signing him you would be projecting his best will come during his second contract like Barwein…i would def sign Carpenter(depending on what stoutland says, they were together at alabama), but signing Carpenter isnt a move i would cut herremans for…Iupati tho, we could cut Todd if we wanted to…
…
we can sit carpenter on the bench for a year if herremans beats him in camp, but we cant sign Iupati and then bench him for a year
If Mathis would be around 29, I wouldn’t even be interested in him. But one really good OG, like Iupati and Mathis, is worth the money, imho. Especially in our run heavy scheme.
Having Mathis and Iupati together for at least one year – well, that would help, also.
No he doesn’t.
Is there a Guard who fits into our zone blocking scheme perfectly in your opinion, who could be cheap (cheap in FA, Day 3 in the draft)?
Some kind of Mathis back in 2011. 😉
Plenty of depth at G in the draft. My personal favorite day 3 G would be Greg Mancz from Toledo. Played everything but LT for them.
“Starter
on offensive line for 38 consecutive games, every game in his Rocket
career…Nominee for All-America and Academic All-America…Nominee for
Allstate Good Works Award…On official watch list for Rimington Award.”
As far as the next Mathis, that’s not going to happen. The next Barbre though? I’m not familiar enough with every depth chart, but I would expect the team to look for a vet with some experience and upside at the bottom end of FA.
Toledo Rockets . . .
Eagles needed Chuck Ealy from Toledo — with 71 consecutive wins from HS through college (undefeated and untied every year).
Took John Reaves from U-FL instead.
I see another German speaking my language. 🙂
cutting herreans is foolish… if you cut todd and sign Carpenter, you arent building depth which is supposed to be the point… we arent cuttin Coop when its cheaper to keep him, upgrade Maehl AND Brad smith,. then we can talk about upgrading coop next year when the $$ makes sense to waive him,
Have to re-work Todd though. Can’t be in the books with 5.2m. He’s a proven vet and a long time Eagle, but not worth THAT money.
agreed..;. i assume Todd plays ball, he likes living here, he has made alot of money, he is fair dude, shouldnt be a problem
That was the reasoning behind.
lol ok….
You’re the reason why we all exist.
I thought this blog actually belonged to GEAGLE, and Tommy was just some weird psycho that came on here and tried to pontificate??
Good to see that your still a complete weirdo.
miss you over at 24/7 Geags. I like McCourty (RU), based on their FA pattern since 2011, he doesn’t seem like a possibility. Don’t you think he’ll be the #1 FA DB, should the Pats even let him go?
thought about posting something there yesterdaqy but i saw that it was a bunch of that worthless rashy moron token trashing up the board so i logged off… no reason for me to post there, some groupie always keeps my name alive on that site lol…. havent posted in over a year, yet you can find my name on that site every single day lol….
….
if the eagles spend big on a free agent, it would be for the perfect fit in every single way… thats devin McCourty… if i told you to go find the safeties that can be mirror images(stylistically) of Malcom Jenkins, im sure McCourty would be towards the top of the list. McCourty/jenkins two former corners, perfect mirrored safety tandem…. I dont expect the eagles to be busy in free agency… i dont believe we will sign any corners, i assume we draft the corners, go into the season starting Cary and Nolan on the outside until the rookies we draft are ready to take their spots…
…
if the Eagles have the quiet free agency I expect, they can afford to make 1 quality expensive signing. i dont think we are against spending money on quality free nagency, i just think it has to be a perfect fit in every single way… thats devin McCourty…
…
i have a feeling we try to sign him, and sign a veteran guard for depth, something between Mathis and Barbre type…and thats about it…. if we only sign a free agent or two, it absolutely could be an expensive one… heck the cap is about to go up 10 mil, give that money to McCourty, keep operating under the current cap and you can look at it as getting McCourty for free lol
…
there isnt much quality in free agenc at DB… horrible year to need DB help, especially CORNER, half the lleague wants a corner, Mcourty will be expensive, but not as expensive as the absured bidding war that will take place to sign a cornerback from the Legion of BOom Maxwell, i have a feeling his contract will be absurd. some dumb teams with dumb owners are desperate for corners…
…
Patriots just paid Chung, they cant keep Revis, Browner and McCourty… I assume they will chose to keep the corners, and let McCourty walk…but we’ll see
….
if McCourty becomes available i would be very surprise if we didnt aggressively try to land him,.
..
heck just think how many big plays we could have eliminated if Nate didnt suck and made some plays down field…
…
if the eagles want to sign corners too, then we wont sign McCourty, but we have a handful of young safeties to let battle in camp, but we dont have any young outside corners…so we will want to pay for the safdety, draft the corner upgrades, and keep Cary and Nolan as the stop gap until the rookies are ready to take their spot…
…
if you think the eagles will go sign like 5 free agents, then its probably not realistic to expect us to go after McCourty….. but i expect a quiet free agency, if we only sign a backup Guard like Barbre, i dont see why we cant invest in McCourty, a perfect fit who like Jenkins, and Barwin will give us our moneys worth…
Expecting a Halestorm, but what the heck….Speaking of converting CB to S, I believe you could convert Bradley to S. His major weakness is turning back for the long ball and he wouldn’t have to do that much as a S, he is a good tackler and has good instincts. I think it would be worth a shot and cheaper to boot.
He can’t play man off. I suspect he’d struggle with zone. His biggest strength is man press but he lacks the top gear to prevent himself from being regularly beaten over the top. He’s physical enough for safety, but I think he fails the other qualifications despite being athletic enough for it too.
Why do you like Collins so much? I did not come away all that impressed after watching his Bama game and another game a few weeks ago. Would be interested to see your thoughts. To me, Waynes looks far better. I guess it remains to be seen if Collins can improve quickly in the league but right now Waynes look like he can battle for a spot in week 1. Dude is smooth and intelligent, plays the ball fairly well too. Rarely got beat over the top if ever (haven’t watched his Baylor performance yet).
Wow. I’m a pretty huge fan of that draft. My only critique would be to trade out a receiver for an OL, even the guy from Syracuse later in the 5.
Hickey won’t be around in round 5.
Can’t cut Riley. Restructuring Cole crushes next year’s cap, better off paying him now or just cutting him, preferably cutting him. Cut Casey, and restructure Todd so he’s hopefully first man off the bench.
It’s easy to ask for Casey getting fired, but I’d rather keep him for less money. Our special teams didn’t finish first without a reason…
I think we have enough ST aces.
chip aint cutting the most unselfish eagle, and hrdest working player in the building who made more sacrafices than anyone for this team….coach isnt going to stress building a culture for two years and then piss all over it and cut the poster child for the culture you are trying to build
Time will tell.
Trey Burton, Chris Maragos and Casey are the BIG Three when it comes down to the coverage units. While the latter is certainly not irreplacable, it sure won’t hurt if we keep him at a reduced price instead of outright cutting him.
And Chris Prosinski and we’ll probably re-sign Casey Matthews because Oregon. Trick is getting real production from Trey Burton as the #3 TE. Only it’s worth keeping J. Casey is if he’s on the vet minimum or he can actually produce more than blocking on offense.
Braman was signed for his ST as well. If he’s not a top contributor, he should be gone.
If you could add a couple of undrafted free agents it would be quite the complete picture.
I made my off season plan v1.0 rather in a hurry this morning before my 16 monhts old twin daughters needed their nappys changed.
The next version will include a full 7 round mock as well as a more thorough planning in terms of undrafted Free Agentes. Thanks though!
Russ Lande’s mock has the Eagles going with CB PJ Williams at #20 with Trae Waynes gone but Collins still available. Thoughts on Williams over Collins or Waynes?
Like the Kendricks reunion, I think its incredibly optimistic to think he lasts until middle of round 2. I’d even consider him at #20.
All those players were still available when I doing the mock draft at fanspeak. 🙂
Williams is talented, but due to the NYT story, I don’t know how the Eagles feel about him. Do they think he was just young dumb stupid and made a mistake or was it symptomatic of something larger.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/sports/ncaafootball/for-an-fsu-football-player-a-hit-and-run-becomes-two-traffic-tickets.html?_r=0
no chance we pass on Jalen Collins for PJ Williams, atleast IMO… collins is going to be rated a tier above PJ after he makes the combine his bitch….assuming LSU isnt listing him 3 inches taller than he actually is…. i dont really see PJ as a first rounder… i can see a team at the end of round 1 taking him if there arent any round 1 prospects left, or if there was a run on corners…
…
but we have the 20th pick in the draft, and i know there will be atleast 20 kids with legit first round grades, if we decide not to trade back, add a legit 1st round talent regardless of what position he plays
Collins is listed at 6′ 2″ but ESPN’s scouts inc. has him at 6′ 0.5″ which seems about right. LSU giving him 1.5 inches is absurd he’s not that tall.
Carpenter 0% fits on our OL.
If you want a Stoutland reunion OL go with Franklin, not Jabba the Hutt.
So you’re saying that Carpenter is not in shape?
He may be in shape but he’s built like Jason Peters without any of the athleticism. He’s a phonebooth guard.
If he could move, more beef up front wouldn’t hurt us.
Apart from Franklin, who else would make sense as a FA target?
james carpenter!!!
I’m more of the Ravens/Packers school of thought, where you don’t really do much in FA. Find a value player here or there, but in general build through the draft.
Carpenter and Iupati aren’t scheme fits, despite others claiming they are. OL and WR I think you’re going to see them want to build through the draft. TE and RB would be a poor use of resources.
Defensively, a corner not named Maxwell, perhaps Cromartie or Tramon Williams if you can get them on short deals.
At S, proabably Rahim Moore if he can play any level of man (which our new coach should be able to tell) since he’s a solid player and only 25 so he will be in his prime for the length of the contract.
An OB Schofield at OLB as a hedge against a run in the draft /Cole’s age/MSII development.
Maybe a Nate Irving or Mason Foster at ILB if the money makes sense and it doesn’t prohibit you from playing a younger guy we draft this year or next.
I really don’t think you’re going to see much in FA. Hopefully two starters and possibly another corner to compete with Watkins/Carrol/draft pick. Maybe a few low-tier pieces for competition and depth at other spots. We aren’t going to go hog wild and come out of it with 4-5 starters and a couple more contributors.
I really don’t think you’re going to see much in FA.
Fair enough. I am not saying that we will see another ‘Nnamdi’ like Free Agency again. However I happen to believe that the Eagles will go for ONE big name ticket while signing a couple of ‘Irving’ like projects that can turn out either to be a steal or meh.
I guess time will tell though.
I just think you’re more likely to see Mario Gotze in an Arsenal jersey next summer than an aggressive free agency 😉
I could see us targeting a single player. I doubt we’ll ever see another spree like the Nnamdi mess.
Ha! Real is always likely. 🙂
This is perfect. Geagle has been saying pretty much the same thing. Best of all is, it could actually be done. Not completely unrealistic. ANd its definitely a win-now scenario for a team who has been winning 10 games a season with major holes, scheme transition and injury problems. Lets start a partition!
Cutting Cooper would be stupid. We’d save 1 mil and have 3 mil dead money. I’d rather just have him as a 4th WR.
If you had this draft would you really re-sign Maclin? Also I believe we can safely assume that Devin Smith won’t make it to our 2nd round pick.
The FA starts before the draft, but to answer your question if that was the outcome I’d probably pass on paying big bucks for Mac.
Idk about where Devin Smith will end up. Have seen him all over the place lasting from round 2 to even 5 in some mocks.
That’s just my opinion on Smith, I think he did better than well enough at the Sr. Bowl in the aspects of WR that were ?’s. He does catch with his body too much but he does catch them.
You don’t spend big money in FA. Sign your own guys. McCourty will be 28 not sure I want to pay that money to a safety. Culliver’s character is a turn off to Chip, would be shocked if they were interested in him. I think they continue to try to find undervalued talent and bargains in FA. No way they throw $102 in FA to get 3 non-Eagles. As Geagle said, Cooper isn’t going anywhere in 2015. I’d try to restructure Cary, but definitely would not be excited about having him back at 8M. I don’t like the guy but not sure you’ll be able find 2 better CBs than him for 2015.
Thx for your input.
you’ll have to excuse me as I didn’t quite feel like reading the very long string (tl,dr, whatever) but I do like what you have hear. Not sure if I cut Herremans and as much as I would like to cut Riley Cooper he’d come with a pretty sizeable cap hit. Just curious, but why aren’t the words “cut bradley fletcher” on the list or is that just implied?
I didn’t list those FA that aren’t likely to come back.
QB is not the team’s biggest problem, obviously. Fix the DBackfield, add a G, an ILB and OLB, and upgrade from Cooper and, looking at next year’s schedule, we can be top seed in the NFC with the same QBs. We were 2 plays away from 12-4 this year, although it would have taken considerable luck to make it all the way to the SB. Mortgaging the future for Mariota won’t pay off for years and the veterans now won’t be around when it does.
Great post, Tommy. There aren’t only Pros and there aren’t only Cons. You are able to sum it up pretty good.
Three things are bugging me with Nick:
– making the same mistakes more than once or twice. Could be not so good QB coaching (Musgrave?), but there shouldn’t be an excuse. He has to learn from his mistakes. I’m sure he’s willing to, but he has to do it and he has to show it on the field.
– his footwork needs to improve. Even Sanchez, who isn’t a standout QB by any means, is way better at moving in the pocket than Nick was.
– durability
But on the other hand, the record is good. He showed in 2013 he can be a very good decision maker. Nobody will confuse his arm with Joe Flacco or Rodgers, but the arm strenght is good enough to win a SB with. Good leader.
And he’s still young. He isn’t a finished QB yet. If Nick would be a finished product, I could see the argument that we have to get rid of him more. He should be able to improve based on pure experience in playing in the NFL.
I think putting his bad season ALL on the O-Line is wrong. Some Foles fans do this, I don’t like this simplistic view. But the O-Line situation sure wasn’t easy and is partly an excuse.
if Nick foles was a finished product i woud kick him out of this city myself…. but he has another 2-3years of growth before he matures into a veteran QB… his best ball is still ahead… if you dont believe in a young QB who is still growing, that means you must think he is lazy, will get complacent, not work hard…… because it doesnt exist that a kid with ability we have seen with our own eyes, works his ass off, but doesnt improve…thats just not possible,,,, you work hard at something, as you gain experience you will improve at it…and we know Nick is a smnart, hard working, driven leader who will put in the work, so its extremely foolish to not give Nick the time to see just how great he can become…
…
“if you dont believe in a young QB who is still growing, that means you
must think he is lazy, will get complacent, not work hard…..”
That’s right, but still: I didn’t see an improvement from Week 1 to Week 6-8 from Nick. And yes, O-Line problems, but like I said, they are a partly excuse for me, but not EVERYTHING.
I do believe Nick will work hard to get better, I believe in his intangibles, but I want to see improvement on the field in 2015.
fact: center gets blown into a QB lap, brady and Manning aint doing much better than Nick did…
…
the best veteran running back in the NFL couldnt do anything behind that line… but a QB with less than 20 games of experience shouldnt be effected by it?
..
please go watch his throws out ofg max protect./..aka the plays he went into expecting to be protected… its completely different than the rest of his throws… thats a psychological, not trusting your OL issues…. has nothing to do with musgrave… he had a badly bruised arm and he couldnt take the hits he was always willing to take when playing this game….. i promise you its a mistake to judge him offd last year…. judge him from last year, andyou will be proven wrong. guaranteee it
I’m not juding him based off last year, but to me, it’s part of the story, like 2013 is. Why? Because the O-Line won’t be perfect in every game for the rest of his career. You have to find ways as a QB. Especially, you can’t see ghosts. Nick feared pressure even when there wasn’t any pressure. He needs to work on that, imho.
Russell Wilson had games with a not so good O-Line, Luck already got used to it (altough they improved at the end of the season), Rivers has KING DUNLAP protecting his blind side.
What I give Nick is the chance to improve in that area. Experience plays a role in that one, too.
nick does find ways, every single 4th quarter just about that he has played in, he gets us back into the game
…
ill im saying if you expect the Nick we saw this year, you will be pleasantly surprised. everyone says they factor the OL issues, but im not sure people really understand how much it effects EVERYTHING… there is a big reason these fat slobs that dont even appear in a stat sheet get millions and millions of dollars… there is a reasonb LT is more important than WR, CB, LB, S, RB
..
everyone knows says they know how important the OL is, but im not sure most people really understand the extent of it…Often OL play will dictate RB, WR, and QB play…. it will NEVER get worse than this past year, that was the worst OL luck a team could ever have…. i dont think people understand how great of a coachinbg job chip had to do to win 10 games this year…actually i know they dont understand since so many are down on chip for this season…
Oh, if I would expect the 2014 version of Foles in 2015, you would see me on the “sell the house for Mariota” bandwagon. 😉
The way it is, I’m pretty indifferent about Mariota as an Eagle. I do think he’s worth a trade up if he falls into the 12-15 range (and I think Chip would do that, even if he loves Foles the way you do, MM is too good of a prospect in Chips hands to not trade up 5 spots), but I don’t want the trade up into the Top 10 (where he will likely go). Indirectly, that’s the value Nick has imho. He probably will be better than in 2014, but by how much? The 2013 Nick, I’d even prefer him over Mariota in Chip’s system.
personally i dont want anything to do with Marriotta… even in chips offense i would much rather have Jameis Winston… i sure as hell dont want to trade up to 10 for him….but i have to acknowledge the reality of the situation so i cant complain if the eagles trade up 5 spots to get him…
…
the only thing i like about Marriotta, is it could result in keeping chip in philly longer, but i dont believe he will be a better NFL QB than Nick…but we will always need two QBs, so i can live with moving up 5 spots to get him, even tho i see way more value in moving up 5 spots for Danny shelton, sliding Logan over at DE and having the most dominante young 3 man line in the NFL…or even moving up for a dominant OL like the kid from Iowa
….
fingers crossed, Marriotta becomes a bucaneer so i dont have to worryt about it. mariotta getting drafted by the bucs means we can build a stronger team around our QB….but im a realist so if this coach moves up 5 spots for marriotta, i cant complain…
…
but honestly, im not even sure chip wants the kid… sounds to me like he is talking his boy up because he wants him to get drafted as high as possible….. but since some media hack like elliot shor jackass parks hasnt introducred the theory, i dont expect anyone to agree…. but i cant wait to find out
Concering your theory of Chip just wanting to help him: possible, of course. He spoke highly about Johnny Manziel and didn’t want him on draft day. But let’s not forget: Manziel always had the maturity issues. And I think that’s the main reason Chip didn’t want him.
Mariota, I think he loves as a player (most intelligent person he’s ever met, or something like that) and a person. So I think that’s the difference between Manziel and Mariota.
But I think we kind of agree. We both don’t want the mega trade up and don’t think it will happen, but I think we would trade up 5-8 spots. Only difference is: I’d welcome to 5-8 spot trade up if the opportunity is there, you, because of Foles, would not.
But I think we can both life with that different opinion. 🙂
i know all about how much chip loves marriotta, but people can deny there is an opportunity cost for drafting Nick Foles back up in round 1 aka Marriotta…. even if he falls all the way to #20, drafting him takes away adding an elite talent at a position that really needs it… we are like 3-5 quality players away from being a very good team…if you dont draft Marriotta, we can get those 3-5 players quicker, then if we spend a first on Foles backup, even worse you probably need to spend more than a first for marriotta.
…
FACTs are we cant get Marriotta without trading Foles, and i genuinly believe chip wont be willing to part with Nick, so realistically, we cant get marriotta, which im thankful for because we will build a top team faster if we dont draft Marriotta, then if we do…
Concering the importance of the O-Line (the points you edited in): trust me, I know the importance. I’m not blaming Nick for the sacks he took when there was inside pressure because Molk couldn’t hold his block for even a second. I’m “blaming” Nick for seeing ghosts even if there wasn’t any pressure. It’s tough, don’t get me wrong. Especially for a young QB. But he has to find ways to trust his O-Line enough to go through his mechanics if they get the job done for a few snaps.
Also, concerning the worst luck a team could have: we had a future Hall of Fame LT for the whole season. As much as the other parts were falling apart, LT is the most important position in the O-Line.
We still had bad luck, of course. But having Peters was very important.
normally i would agree…. but not many QBs would have lasted as long as he did… i can agree with your point pre redskins game, but after the skins game he shouldnt even be playing, that was pure toughness. his entire shoulder was black n blue, half way down to his biceps… this has been a big tough kid willing to sit in the pocket, take hits to deliver a strike since his crappy OL in college… after the skins game he was clearly too bruised to withstand the hits he is normally willing to take…
…
so pre skins game, i can agree with you/… but after the skins game, we should be impressed with his toughness, sanchez and Barkley owuld have never been able to play, instead of being down because a badly injured kid who was gutting it out didnt play his best ball..but pre skins game, i can agree with you
We both don’t really know how injured Nick was after the Skins game (nobody outside the organisation really knows). If you’re right and him even playing was pure toughness, then I would agree with you. On the other hand: why didn’t Chip order Nick to rest one or two games? Sanchez played a great PS, he could have played one or two games (at least at that time, it would have been worth a try).
i know for a FACT the week after the skins game, his entire shoulder was a giant black and blue bruise that ran down to like half his bicep… FACT… email sheil Kapadia or anyone with locker room access, they will confirm it
Foles is 14-4 as a starter under Chip! I think some of his regression has to do with the loss of Lazor. I think we’re all happy to Musgrave go. One thing that nobody talks about is how clutch Foles is when it matters. He led a lot of game winning drives the past two years. He was one Riley Cooper drop away from leading another in SF this past year.
hello preacher, im the choir… pleased to meet you
and were it not for nate it would have been a game winning drive in AZ too.
Ironic thing is that Coop’s drop in the SF game was probably one of Foles’ best throws of the season.
irony, indeed.
well done.
awesome highlight video! The glory days (of 2013) will be back in 2015.. Nicky Franchise.
Miss Netherlands 2014 Yasmin Verheijan
Miss Jamaica 2014 Kaci Fennell
..
if you ALL don’t take a peek then wtf cares about off season football
dont overlook Nick? HA!!! thast rich, yous been overlooking him for 3 years, why stop now?
He was never unfair to him, mate. Not being his biggest fan in the world doesn’t mean someone is “overlooking” him.
I’m not saying T-Law is perfect or anything, but imho, he was always fair with Nick. You’re a huge fan of Nick, that’s ok, but you’re not an idiot if you’re not a huge fan.
no no no….im not talking about Tom… please dont take it that way…. I said “Yous” south philly plural for all of You…no one specific, but Tom has def been a consistent fair voice of reason with Nick, so he is the last person i was thinking about when i wrote that….. it was aimed at the masses, no one in particular. the exceptions know who they are
Ah, ok. Thought “yous” was a smartphone typo and meant “you”.
Didn’t know the phrase “yous”. As a non-native speaker, you can always learn something about colloquial language, I guess.
Its not a “phrase.” Please don’t assume any educated people use that word. They don’t.
who yous calling ineducated?
lol… not exactly the best thing to learn…. picture Rocky Balboa saying the word “yous”..thats south philly, home of novacare lol some authentic native flavor… type it in a jocking manner, i would never say that out loud lol its like the cliche south philly idiot lol
So can I assume it would be a word that the characters “on the street” from The Wire would use, if The Wire would be based on South Philly instead of Baltimore? 😉
exactly…
the cops would use it too
D . . .
It’s very much like the word “youths” . . . pronounced, “Utes” by some folks in Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Queens.
first bellikchek, now you? whats it my cousin vinny memorial week?
Esilarante!!!
well played.
It’s actually written “youse”…the correct spelling for a non-existent word is the ultimate in pedantic excess…
I don’t mind saying T-Law is included in that grouping. He’s not a fan of him. Yes he’s fair. Just not a fan. Nothing wrong with that….
i read like 25% of the articles… i wouldnt really know
“Unless Chip Kelly can pull off a miracle, it sure seems like Foles will be the best option for starting QB in 2015.”
THEY CAN TAKE OUR LIVES, BUT THEY CAN NEVER……TAKE…OUR FREEDOM!!!!
“And the Eagles easily could have won the 2 games that ended as losses. Cooper failed to catch a great pass in the end zone that would have given the Eagles a lead with about a minute left in the SF game.”
I hate this narrative. The 49ers had a bad year. They were injured and Jim Harbaugh was effectively a lame duck coach. They went 8-8.
Nick Foles went 21-43 for 195 yards with 0 TDs and 2 INTs. The long reception was 22 yards.
The OFFENSE scored ZERO points.
Punt Block TD
INT Return TD
Punt Return TD
But yeah, Nick had one good drive at the end. Without D & ST he almost made it 26-7.
Meanwhile, all Mr. “One Read and Run” Kaepernick did was throw 17-30 for 218 yards with 2 TDs and 1 INT while running for another 58 yards on 7 carries.
You can hate it all you want but the fact is Pooper dropped the game winner.
Yes. That is one of many facts though.
It *was* a really nice throw.
So do u give RW no credit last week for winning?
Give me the QB that his teammates believe in and WILL give u a shot to win at the end. The 1st half of football games barely matters anymore, even less for Eagles fans lol.
The ONLY legit 2 knocks on Foles:
1. Health (piss poor pass pro doesnt help anybody )
2.Footwork
If you look at our run stats for that game you will see how those 0or lack of those) effected the pass game. DEF not one of Nick’s better games but comparing KAP to our crappy secondary and nick with no run game to a 9r D that was still pretty good is not fair.
Just look at our starting offensive line in that game. If pre-season I told you the only starter playing in his natural position on the line would be Peters and the other 80% of the line was essentially back-ups, but not just backups, that some of our 2nd stringers got hurt too and we were playing with a third string offensive line against the 49ers, on the road, and I told you the running game wouldn’t get going and nick would have a bad day, everyone would say, “of course…no way we win that game”
there is no room for being Rational lol
All this “what is Nick” stuff is silly. We just have no clue. But the coaches do from watching him in practice every single day and going through his tape ad nauseum.
He’s a guy that can :
Put up crazy stats
7 touchdown passes, single-game (Tied)
27:2 TD-INT ratio, regular season
152.8 passer rating in a calendar month (Nov2013)
Pass Percentage 61.6
TD–INT46–17
Passing yards 6,753 QB Rating94.2
Win 4qtr even when playing poorly
But he’s also a guy who can:
Back peddle with the best of em
Have trouble staying healthy
Turnover the ball like a dream team player
He also plays fantasy football pranks on local Philadelphia citizens!
Good point. The o line was terrible. However, just as he did all season long, Shady put the offense in bad spots on 3rd and long. He refused to take the 2 yds the play would give him, tool too many losses and made our 3rd down situations rough. It was almost as if mccoy was scared of contact at times.
I take it you also have a negative view of Wilson’s game against the Packers, then? Because the biggest differences were 1) Beatmode produces even when the other team is putting 9 men in the box; 2) Seattle’s receiver makes the catch at the end, where Cooper drops it.
I have a negative view of both Wilson’s game against the Packers and Nick against SF. What’s your point?
Nothing, for you. I just have noticed a trend of double standards from certain people, whereby Wilson’s game was “great, because he won it in the end!!1!,” whereas Foles just flat out sucks, because they lost, even though if Cooper makes the catch, he would have pulled victory from the jaws of defeat. Just want to pin the OP down on whether there’s a double standard at play.
true don’t you love how its a TEAM game. some games the rest of the team does crappy and has to be helped by the offense and sometimes its the other way around. thats why we like football.
Our DST was pretty good at that point in the season. Though Kaps numbers are really 160 yds 1TD / 1Pick without that cah and run TD from Gore (grace a Smith II) that really broke the game.
But not moving the ball at all on offense was pretty bad.
it was definitely a bad performance for the offense. no doubt.
And how did the running game do? We have a superstar running back, I don’t think anyone claims we have a superstar QB, so if our superstar running back doesn’t get it done, what does it say?
Lol @ PFF:
From Jimmy K.:
If you’ll notice, LeSean McCoy is a “bad” player, in the same category with Riley Cooper and Bradley Fletcher. Apparently, Mark Sanchez, Nate Allen, Matt Tobin, and Casey Matthews are better football players than LeSean McCoy.
Curiosity got the best of me, so I figured I’d take a quick peek around the rest of the league to see what other players are better than LeSean McCoy. A player from every other team:
Clay Harbor, Kurt Coleman, Jaiquawn Jarrett, A.Q. Shipley, King Dunlap, Jason Avant, Quintin Demps, Darryl Tapp, Andrew Quarless, Frank Kearse, Ropati Pitoitua, Patrick Omameh, Benson Mayowa, Austin Davis, Michael Ola, Vladimir Ducasse, Joplo Bartu, Tyrunn Walker, Tony Jefferson, Shelley Smith, A.J. Bouye, Terence Newman, EJ Manuel, Mike Mitchell, Quinton Dial, Miles Austin, J.J. Wilcox, Marvin Austin, Kamar Aiken, and the guy who dropped the onsides kick in the Seahawks-Packers game.
LeSean McCoy: Worst. Player. Ever.
PFF: Worst. Website. Ever.
Until they start grading on a “per snap” scale and waiting until the All-22 is up……at a minimum….Yeah.
Great point.
PFF gets an “A” for effort.
But using the network feeds to evaluate coverage, WRs’ blocking on running plays, route running . . .
Not sure I get all the hoopla.
And it’s unclear if they even use football people to do evaluations. I read a story where they have random guys in england evaluating plays on a rush basis so they can have grades by the morning.
A:
that comment has me doubled over with laughter!
and I read somewhere that NFL teams apparently pay PFF for “premium” evaluations.
again . . . not getting it.
PFF’s snap count data and where players line up and where they produce and things like average depth of throw and yards per route run is very valuable and worth paying for.
like an hour ago, a senior analyst for PFF talked about how since 2007, they looked at all the teams that made it to AFC and NFC championships trying to see the similarities with how all those championship teams were built… they came to the conclusion that the eagles are like 3 good to great players away from having a superbowl contending roster…
…
he also said on average most teams have 2 GREAT players, and the Eagles were above the mean having 3 GREAT Players;
1) Jason Peters
2) Mathis
3) Brandon Graham
I have seen it, according to PFF McCoy is worse than Matt Tobin or Molk or Copper and Barwin is only average.
Kelly/Davis and the PFF folks would appear to have a difference of opinion regarding BGraham.
That’s true. There was a story up on Peter King’s MMQB site this week about them. One of the dudes that does the “evaluating” is a former minor league baseball pitcher for cripes sakes.
Some of the stuff they do for teams, with play design, tendencies, WR splits, etc. are actually neat and helpful (probably saving some poor quality control guy from offing himself) but the grades are pretty BS.
Belichick . . . delivering the insider info.
___________
THANKS FOR EXPLAINING.
All the stuff outside of the grades is actually really great and valuable stuff. If they just stopped the grades and only focused on the stuff that matters, it would be a great site
I wonder if, since they are contracted by NFL teams, they get game tape from the teams on Sundays and use that to evaluate. Is the network feed thing just an assumption or have they clearly stated they do as such?
No, they have said they first get all-22 on Wednesday
http://i.imgur.com/PuxLp6B.jpg
i swear i dont even have the slightest idea what that site looks like…. havent visited it not even once… piss in my ear and tell me its raining? no thanks…fraud site
I haven’t either.
Agreed but 40% of nfl teams have used pffs services
Including the Eagles, but it should be noted two of the Eagles high priority FA signings was 2 players that PFF hates.
Cris Collinsworth owns a stake in it.
does he really? wish that jackass would clean that site up…. It COULD be such a valuable site, but its a fraud…
…
if i bought that site, i would change everything. instead of pretending we can grade every single player by monday morning only using TV footage.. i would make the analyst do exactly what they do now to have all the players graded by monday, but i wouldnt post the data, i would sit on….then wed i would want the analyst to get the all 22 film of each grade, and go back and grade each player using the all 22 footage, then id have the analyst take the TV footage grades, and the all 22 footage grades, and try to come up with one grade, realistically that the most accurate way they could do it….but they wouldnt be able to list the grades til like Saturday, instead of mondAY MORNING THEday after a game….. id rather have real data on saturday, then fraud data on monday
The SF game was pretty much the equivalent of Wilson’s game against the Packers last week, with three exceptions: 1) Beastmode >>>>>>>Shady, 2) Cooper drops the pass that hits him in the hands while Seattle’s receiver catches it, and 3) Tobin, Molk, Kelly (OL # 7,8,9 on your depth chart) as interior line against a very talented, physical defense vs. a pretty stable line against a lesser (but still good) defense.
Seattle used 10 O-line combinations this season due to injuries.
During the second half of the season, C Max Unger was most out of the lineup. Missed the Divisional Round, too, I think.
shows you what mobility can do for you.
I’d still take the matchup of Seattle’s OL in that game against the Packers’ D over Tobin, Molk, Kelly against the 49ers. And it’s not even really that close.
I also take Russell Wilson over Nick Foles
[…] Here’s why you shouldn’t take Nick Foles for granted. […]
We need to retire the “he left the field with the lead” narrative. The team wouldn’t have needed a late comeback had he played a good game.
lol ok
Can’t argue with that incisive retort.
That’s ok, if you’re willing to discount all the wins guys like Kaep and Wilson have coming from behind while they played like trash all game, but their D kept them in it enough for them to play hero ball at the end. Can’t really have it both ways, although plenty of people try.
Who mentioned either of them? We should evaluate QBs on how they play individually, not the end result of the game.
We should also use realistic standards. Very few QBs are consistently great every quarter of every game. A good, but not great, QB is one who can struggle for portions of a game, but turn it on when it matters.
In the end, I think 2014 was just as much a mirage as 2013 – they were mirror images in terms of circumstances. 2013- dominant OL and run game, Riley Cooper having a career year in a contract year, not playing much in terms of quality defenses. 2014 – OL in constant flux, starting the 7,8,9 OL on the depth chart over multiple games, having only 1 starting OL in at least one game, Shady being extremely inconsistent – great against awful teams, non-existent against average to good defenses, Riley Cooper dropping multiple passes and just generally being the normal Riley.
Nick’s somewhere in between the two years, but that’s a large area. The key will be to see how he develops. This offseason and season will be the proof, one way or the other.
That’s not how football games work. The other players and coaches get paid to win games too.
Then why keep individual stats? You’re right that coaches and players are paid to win games, but more specifically they’re paid to perform well in their roles and contribute to victories. If a team wins a given game, that doesn’t mean everyone played or coached well, just as a team losing a given game doesn’t mean the opposite. Foles, on balance, did not play well in that game. Had they won, that fact wouldn’t have changed. Had he played better, they very likely would’ve won.
I hate that line of commentary. It is a known fact that all 31 other teams are full of bums with fans that are only fit to get punched in the face if they dare speak up and challenge Philadelphia.
But guys on my fantasy teams are permitted to play well.
And this is why I won’t play fantasy. I don’t even want to need to pull for a player on a team I don’t like, and frankly, I don’t like many teams at all besides my beloved Eagles.
Nor would have needed a late comeback if the defense didn’t give up 26 points…this is a team sport, no idea why so many people forget that.
Not sure if you remember since they looked so bad on defense this year, but the Saints were #4 in total defense and ranked #2 against the pass in 2013. So you are blaming a 2nd year QB for having a bad 1st half against that defense? Nick played well enough to win that game. He doesn’t play defense.
It was really special teams that killed it for us. Nicky Stix did have a bad half, people excoriated Djax b/c that nobody “keenan allen” shut him down.
The real culprit in that game was Riley cooper’s drop.
“Riley Cooper ‘s drop” seems to be a common theme.
Nick would be 16-2 if Coop catches two wide open passes
and he would 10-8 if his defense and ST hadnt bailed him out and he didnt have Darren Sproles.
and he’d be 0-18 if he only played by himself
I remember. Those statistics were misleading, though. 10th in DVOA, same as the Eagles this year, and fueled largely by spending very little time on the field (3rd in the league in TOP). Foles went 23/33 for 195 (5.9 ypa). That’s not good. He doesn’t play defense, but the guys who do gave him 2 turnovers, which he converted into 0 points. D also kept them in the game while he repeatedly went 3 and out.
I didn’t remember off the top of my head so I looked it up. The one turnover was an interception on the Eagles 3 yd line, returned to the 27 yd, basically a kickoff. The 2nd pick, was returned to the NO 44 yd line and Nick threw a TD on that drive. So that’s 7 points off of 2 turnovers. We were playing a HOF QB in Brees, and a top 10 defense then. We lost by 2 points with a 2nd year QB making what his 16th or 17th start of his career? Defense gave up 185 yds rushing, 5.1 ypc, its hard to win giving that up on defense.
It’s easy to come up with excuses, but you’re just obfuscating the original point: “He left the field with the lead” is not a legitimate endorsement of his play. How about leaving the field with a lead larger than one point? If he had played the exact reverse of the game he did (good first half, bad second half), would he then be a choker rather than clutch? Points at the beginning of the game count the same as they do at the end.
Please explain how this is Foles’ fault? If I’m not mistaken there were a HUGE missed opportunity in the Saints game when Foles hit Cooper across the middle with nothing but green grass in front of him and Cooper dropped it. Again, it’s a team sport.
COOOOOOPER! I forgot about that for a minute…
NEVER FORGET!
It doesn’t matter if you win by 1 point or 100, a win is a win. The Saints were 11-5, we were 10-6 coming off a 4-12 season. No QB plays perfect every single game. Brees played like shit that game, I guess he sucks too. Did Foles play a great game? No, but he gave us a lead the last time he touched the ball. What more do you want?
Actually it does matter how much you win by….
Brees has a long track record of outstanding, record-breaking seasons and a Super Bowl. He didn’t play well, but I thought wins were all that matter. Who cares about the last time he touched the ball? Like I said, if the game played out exactly the same, but in reverse order, he would’ve played just as well, and you wouldn’t be able to say he left the field with the lead.
Did Brees always have that track record? No. You have to start somewhere. We only have limited number of games to judge Foles. Brees had 2 turnovers, Foles had 0 in that game. Brees won the game, but did he play better than Foles? I don’t think so. In the limited games Foles has played, he threw 7 TDs in one game, went 27-2, and posted the 3rd highest passer rating for a season in NFL history. Brees never threw 7 TDs in one game or had a passer rating of 119.2 for a season.
I like how I give you stats to support my case, and you say that I’m “obfuscating the original point”, but you counter my agruments with a “what if” scenario. And if your scenario were true, everybody probably would be talking about how conservative Chip Kelly’s play calling would’ve been, not Foles’ play.
So you think the playcalling was the problem in the first half?
How about Drew Brees had to enter the field on the last drive of the game being down? If you are blaming a QB not putting their team up by enough points, wouldn’t the same be said about Drew Brees, and lets not confuse what Philly’s defense was to New Orleans that year, so if Drew Brees has to enter the field on the final drive of the game down, that says something than Nick Foles “leaving the field with a lead larger than one point”
So I guess all of those incredible comebacks by Brady and Montana (two of the clutchest of all time) were because they played poor games? It’s a team sport. The QB gets too much credit when they win and gets too much blame when they lose. For Nick, it seems like he doesn’t get enough credit for winning though. Give me a QB who’s been 14 and 4 in the games he’s played in and build the rest of the team.
Is it a team sport? I wasn’t aware of that. I’m glad people keep mentioning that. Let’s dispense with the platitudes, please. If you cite his record as his main merit, then surely you believe the QB is by far the most important factor in deciding football games. If that’s the case, then all this talk about the failures of other parts of the team is relatively insignificant.
No because it still is the most important factor, however he doesnt play D or dpecial teams, he doesnt catch or block, the other parts are needed to win also. Sometimes they fail to the point a QB cannot overcome it.
Do you really think that’s the situation here? That Foles is a great QB being weighed down by a terrible supporting cast?
In his good year, he had the best RB, OL, deep threat, and offensive coach in the league.
And didn’t he throw 27 TD’s, 2 picks and leave the field of a playoff game with a lead?
Where did i once say he was a great QB? You are putting words in my mouth. Im just saying when your oline is decimated it hurts your QB. It also hurts your running game, and when you have a poor running game it hurts your passing game. It doesnt help when your #2 WR drops a game winning TD too. Do you deny this? Yes or no? Are you so ready to discount one of the best seasons ever by a QB after 8 games in which he went 6-2 with all of the injuries around him? If you are, then you are simply impulsive. I think he has at least earned a shot to redeem himself. Im not saying he is the future, but he does deserve a chance.
Certainly, the circumstances were less than ideal for him this year, but if he needs every other part of the team to be firing on all cylinders in order to succeed, how good is he really? Sure, Cooper dropped that pass (which wouldn’t have necessarily been a gamewinner anyway), but Foles played dreadfully outside of that (21 for 43 for 195 yards (4.5 ypa?!?!!) and two interceptions). Oh, and that defense and those special teams that let him down happened to spot him 21 free points and he still lost.
They don’t want to hear it
The year before the D still sucked. Im not saying he needs all aspects on that team firing, but he does need some type of success out of them. The running game was non existent and the Oline was destroyed. I think he at least needs something working for him.
Where did i once say he was a great QB. You are putting words in my mouth. Im just saying when your oline is decimated it hurts your QB. It also hurts your running game which also hurts the passing game. It doesnt help when your #2 WR drops a game winning TD. Do you deny this? Yes or no?
I’m not minimizing any significance. You can’t win a Super Bowl with mediocre QB play regardless how good the team is. But you can win a Super Bowl with good to great qbs and a complete team behind him (see Wilson, Flacco, Big Ben, Eli). We’ve seen time and time again how even elite QB play won’t win championships without a complete team behind him See all of Peyton’s teams, Packers’ team that went 15-1 in the regular season but lost to the Giants in the divisional round, and lastly the undefeated Pats team – the common thread between those teams…either below average running game, below average defense or both. Hell, even look at the year Peyton won the Super Bowl. They rode their defense and running game, not Peyton’s arm.
So what I am saying is, it is more important to build a great team than it is to find a franchise QB. A franchise QB is nothing without a team behind him.
there is no HE in team
It really does say something when a QB can come through in the clutch. If he didnt come through at all it would be a loss instead of win. Even the best QBs have bad games, but they came through at end to win. So no, those statements should not be discarded.
But they didn’t win! If it’s all about winning games, then he failed by his defenders’ own standard.
which game?
Washington?
indy?
rams?
Cooper dropped the TD thrown by Foles. He led comeback wins vrs Jax and Colts.
Sean:
John Elway — in the years before Terrell Davis and Shanahan — built a reputation on 4th Q comebacks in games that ended 20-17 or 23-20.
Look at Elway’s numbers the first 10 years of his career, and they’re mediocre . . . except for his W-L record (and AFC Title Game record).
Foles is no Elway, of course.
Elway had a cannon for an arm.
Elway could run.
And Elway rarely missed a game (7 in first 10 seasons).
But Foles does seem to step up late in games — and has a pretty good record . . . for what that’s worth.
The key difference was that Elway really did have a genuinely awful team around him and he led his team to the Super Bowl 3 times. Foles has a very good team, innovative offensive coach, and no playoff wins.
Sean:
You’ve made some great points in this thread to support your argument.
My remarks about Elway are just some data points that may speak more about Elway than anything else (for the reasons you suggest, maybe).
Anyway . . . my compliments.
Thanks. I do agree that some quarterbacks have an uncanny knack for making comebacks. I just think we too quickly conflate playing badly early and then coming on late or doing just enough to win with being clutch.
[…] Here’s why you shouldn’t take Nick Foles for granted. […]
I don’t like the bad/hurt OL excuse for Foles one bit. We all watched him perform poorly and get outplayed by Sanchez in the 2014 preseason too. And that was against vanilla defenses. I’m not excited at all for more backfoot chucking charlie.
preseason?
You mean before teams had game tape on him and he went 3-1 but afterwards went 1-3. Don’t get me wrong, Sanchez did an admirable job but he is not better than Foles because he can’t make all the throws.
No one mentions how bad he looked in the preseason. He appeared just as spooked and scared of pressure as he did during the regular season, even when there was none. It was bizarre. He looked like a rookie.
lol fletcher cox looked like a bum in preseason
Difference is one of them didnt look like a bum during the season
ok
Thank you. He absolutely did. An entire offseason somehow made him much worse. At this rate I fear how bad he will look next year.
That was preseason. You are using preseason to judge him? What about the 16 games in 2013. How can you not use the Oline as a reason his play suffered? Even the elite QBs suffer when their line is hurt. Ours was decimated. The damaged line had an effect on the run game also which effects the passing game. Sanchez was also going against 2s in the preseason. Those statements are just plain wrong. Also factor in that was the first type of near real action in which he played with Maclin and Mathews. 2/3 of his regular receiving corps was new to him.
Seattle used 10 O-line combos this season. (Biggest problem was the 10 missed games for C Max Unger.)
Russell Wilson’s final stats for the ‘hawks in 2014 and, in parentheses, 2013:
285 (257) compl
452 (407) atts
63.1% (63.1%)
3475 (3357) yards [7.5 more yards per game in 2014]
20 (26) TDs
7 (9) INTs
7.9 (8.2) YPA
95.1 (101.2) Rating
Even with Wilson’s mobility, his key numbers dropped (TDs, YPA, Rating).
Seattle doesn’t have any receivers as good as Maclin, Matthews, or Ertz.
But they have a pretty solid defense.
______________
The biggest difference between Wilson and Foles, running side . . .
Riley Cooper.
So did his Ints — is that related? I think the metrics didn’t fall nearly as much.
I will say that RW isn’t a great example. He’s not a great pocket passer. Look at the Eagles game (that was our gameplan) he threw a lot of balls away when kept in the pocket. He thrives on rollouts, naket bootlegs, scramble throws and read option so the o-line is less important to him than than it would be to Nicky Foles who needs that o-line to operate.
He’s in the Superbowl and we’re barely a playoff team. I’ll take that over this 27-2 stat line any day.
honest question: if we can rewind to the begin of this season, switch Foles and Wilson, and press play,rewatch the entire season…. how different would the Eagles season have been, how different would seattles season be with Foles? would they even make a difference? curious to see how people view this
Wilson ran for 850yds 6 TDs, We’re likely 12-4.
russel wilson needs to put up 17 points to win games… kind of different then our situation… Nick is 14-4 with a flawed team, wtf would his record be with an all time great defense?
What is Bradley Fletchers win record? Win/lose does not matter in a team game when talking individual players
WTF are you talking about? GTFO here with that bullshit… when you nsee my posts, if you are going to respond, bring something to the table instead of your bullshit, twisting reality,. pretending to be stupid just so you can argue with the big bad wolf…
..
i know you arent stupid, so dont pretend to be.
…
i dont make the rules, FACT is that QB and COACHES are the ONLY people judged by their record… you never seen a cornerback, runningback, defensiove tackles win loss record ever listed…. but in REALITY, EVERY COACH and QB is judged by their record, EVERY SINGLE ONE…. you dont get to change the rules because you doint like Foles and he happens to win with a flawed team too mnuch for your taste… thats a personal problem, leave me the hell pout of it.
…
exactly what i always talk about this bullshit double standard by fraudulent eagle fans, that would rather be proven right thanto see a QB succeed…. tired of it,.dont waste my time unless you are going to have an HONEST debate and you judge Nicvk the same way you blow andrew luck, or Russel Wilson, Peyton manning
…
what kind of Moron ARGUES ABOUT A QB RECORD, when thats how all QBs are talked about and judged, BY THEIR RECORDS and you arent stupid enough to think anyone in the history of this game has ever cared about a cornernbacks record…. go edit your response, its friggin embarressing, you will say any BS just so you can debatre with Geagle? lolweak!!!.. i dont have to bullshitr to debate you..i can debate my points with FACTS and reality…. let me know when you are rready to do the same and have an honest debate
The fact that you can not comprehend why win/loss record is a bad way to meassure a QB just blows my mind.
I do not care what stupid fans think, fact is win/loss record tells you zero about a QB, Mark Sanchez was 11-5 in his 2nd season, Trent Dilfer went 7-1 and won a SB.
Why should Foles be the only one who gets credit for the win even if the defense and ST scores the majority of the points? Why should Foles get the credit for Sproles been a badass mofo?
Foles had a healthy line in preseason. Pointing out that he played just as poorly with a healthy line (against vanilla defenses!) is a legitimate observation.
It was preseason. Are you going to apply preseason to regular season? So every game he started last year was just an abberation?
Huh? I’m saying his play was exactly the same in both the preseason and regular season: jittery and scared. What on earth are you talking about?
In regular season he was behind a heavily damaged oline. Durring pre season it was his first live action in months. Alot of good QBs dont look the same durring pre season. Its called rust. Also durring pre season it was the first live action he ever has with Maclin and a rookie Mathews. The chemistry was probably not there. Using logic i am not going to fully judge him based on PRESEASON games and 8 games where he was behind a shakey to say at best Oline. Yes we did learn he doesnt perform well under constant pressure. Yes he is a QB that needs a good running game. That was learned. Im not saying he is going to be great. Im saying it is foolish to judge someone based on pre season and 8 games where there was almost no running game and no Oline. Esspecially considering he is only a 3rd year pro QB. Some people here completely disregard the year prior which i thinkit is stupid to do. Will he return back to that All Pro form? No. I think he will be between 2013 and 2014.
It’s interesting that his “rust” and “playing behind a shaky Oline” looked exactly the same…
So what about 2013!!! You keep dodging that. I guess we should just pretend only the pre season and the bad games he had in 2014 happened, and 2013 never happened. What is funny is that no matter what you say you are afraid to mention 2013 because for the sake of yur arguement you refuse to bring it up.
I will ask you again. Do you truely beleive that having a highly ineffective. Oline did not hurt Foles? If the answer is no, then you concede his play in the regular season would have been better with a somewhat functioning Oline. Its very simple, answer the question.
I really like Nick but this is a legitimate point. He really struggled early on with accuracy on crossing patterns and he was already showing a tendency to bail out of the back of the pocket that was disturbing during the preseason.
I don’t just look at pre-season stats and judge a guy great or not based on them, but it’s being blind to not watch how a player, especially a young QB, played during the pre-season and pretend it doesn’t matter at all. Especially when the same tendencies continued during the regular season.
Nick’s still salvageable and I agree with his supporters that the good outweighs the bad at this point, but I really hope he finally fixes these flaws.
My comment wasn’t meant to heap praise on Sanchez. Simply to show that with a single offseason he looked better than Foles did with much less experience in the system. And Sanchez isn’t even good. Makes Foles look plain bad
It was pre season. Sanchez was going against 2s and had alot more to prove in PS then Foles. So in the regular season did Sanchez make Foles look just bad? Because i count regular season, not PS. You can do more with Foles, Sanchez cant throw more then somewhat intermediate passing routes. Again, i refer to this. Are you ready to just completely discredit 2013 in which that was the majority of his games, including this past PS. Im not ready to discredit more good then bad, then just call it bad. Doesnt seem logical.
I know nick is super slow but every time I watch his highlights he looks a little faster then I thought. he throws well on the run. he made some really nice comebacks after some not so great games. that’s what a good qb needs to do. you can’t always have a joe Montana perfect game but you have to stick with it and keep your team around for a chance to win. that’s how sports works. this is competition not a walk in the park. Foles is a tough SOB.
The question for me is not who the QB is for 2015, it’s is he the QB to lead the Eagles to a Super Bowl win? I’m skeptical.
I agree, there isn’t a Qb out there besides the hail mary pick of Mariota (and he would be a rookie learning the ropes) ready to lead this team to the playoffs.
The scary thing regarding that is, say it does happen. MM isnt even as highly touted as RG3 coming out of college. There are red flags with him and their is the possibility that even after a few years he would not pan out. To me, drafting a QB is like an educated crap shoot with a few rare exceptions.
shady’s comment regarding trading up for mariotta is “we want to win now” ..but what if its HIM they have to use as trade bait ??
he can win now somewhere else I guess.
lol
Shady has a trade value of like a fourth round pick. He wouldn’t be the piece that put a deal over the top.
Would you make that trade?
I think we need tor ride him one more year given the $4.4 MM of dead money .
no way. He wants to stay, take his capt down to 6-8m and call it a day.
Heck no. And I don’t get why people think he’s going to take a massive pay cut either. He was just a workhorse back for us for two years. The only way you get his number down is by guaranteeing money in future years, and that’s just a cap restructure which is stupid since we have the space now and pushing money into future years would be a terrible idea.
I don’t think he takes a pay cut. I think he’s probably gone after next year though.
PFT running wild this this Foles to the Rams story which makes me feel like that’s definitely not happening. Would of course be a great move for the rams. With that defense they really just need a Nick Foles to really compete in that division.
Foles for 2015.. Enough said. If we can get Mariota or someone else… competition is grand.
The man is 6’6″. Not too many of us can look over him. I guess Geagle could, but that ain’t happening.
Rumor now on PFT is that the Eagles have been quietly putting out feelers on Foles and that the Rams have now expressed interest in trading for him.
I think (and hope) it is BS. I believe in Foles and pray Kelly focuses on upgrading the secondary/LB and OL/WR so Foles actually has a good chance to develop and we have a good chance to advance deep in the playoffs…
Its always smart to explore all options, so putting feelers out isnt a bad move. The bad move would be accepting anything less then a kings ransom, and/or making the trade without knowing you have an option in place that is better then Foles. Do to the second point is to why i highly doubt anything happens. If i read the PFT article correctly it doesnt really say the Eagles were putting him out there, it just states the Rams are interested. Teams calling other teams regarding players availability happens all the time, it doesnt mean the one team is willing to part with the player.
I agree we do not know for sure, but there has been quite a bit of noise that Kelly wants to upgrade the QB spot, likes Mariota and of doubts within the Eagles about Foles…so I’d not be surprised if the Eagles are doing it quietly and that the Rams either responded or heard Foles might be available and initiated. Either way, I hope Kelly realizes what he has in Foles and focuses on fixing all the other holes we have that can help Foles develop and the team win. Even if we get Mariota, he is not doing anything here without a very good team around him
Mariota i don’t think is happening. Can’t jump in front of no. 1 unless they want you to. The trade could be an “If Mariota falls on draft day we’ll trade for the pick and take him”
This trade talk of Foles is hurting my head. IF Chip wanted to trade Foles, he’d need a starter to compete for the Superbowl. They want to win now.
Preface: I’m not advocating anything, just listing out options.
So the options would be:
1) Trade for a QB on someone else’s roster (Kap, RG3, Locker).
2) Draft a Rookie and hope that the QB you select after MM/JW is the real deal.
Even if they got MM/JW, they’d have to give up quite a bit to get them, and gutting a team competing for the Superbowl doesn’t seem smart. Neither does mortgaging the future on an unknown.
Not a lot of options here that look promising. If they trade Foles, the price of another QB goes up. If they trade for another QB, the price of Foles goes down. Seems like a lose-lose situation.
I think Chip is playing the long game and putting stuff out there to mask what his real game is. I don’t know what that is, but for a guy that keeps things close and hush-hush, there’s a lot of stories coming out about who he wants and what he wants to do. I’m not buying it. We saw Jeff Garcia articles and that he might be an option and Chip hires Day – who was on no ones radar in the media. No one seemed to know he interviewed him.
I think we’ll see the same thing with the GM and exactly the same thing for the draft.
Agree media knows nothing.
A:
Can’t agree.
NJ.com, for example, accurately reported the snow storm yesterday in New England.
True, but NYC is shut down for like 2 inches of snow.
i was surprised to read about NYC
better safe than sorry, i guess?
Happy workers, sad bosses.
bosses are always sad.
who went first in the year Russell got drafted?
the seahawks never thought to trade up to get pete “his guy”.
but they did put together a good TEAM and brought in a young athletic QB from the 3rd round for competition. he ended up winning the comp. and then the bowl.
we can do that too. draft one of those guys like hundley or whoever can be coached and compete with nick and see what happens.
build a team. start with D.
Andrew luck
I know who… it was rhetorical
Not the same at all. They did bring in an expensive free agent and just got lucky with wilson. I’m sure wilson were on this team we wouldn’t be having his conversation.
He was also flying all of his recievers out (on his own dime) after his first year to have them work on routes, timing, coordination. I think RW is a different guy. Not sure Hundley has that “it” factor.
and he did not sell out to get the number one pick. yes he got lucky of course. but they built a team and didn’t mortgage the future on trading up. and it worked.
QB competition is what happened, not all in for one guy.
and you are “not sure” about hundley, ok, who is? but was anyone “sure” about Wilson?
SEA wih Matt Flynn would not be in the playoffs and they’d be drafting quarterbacks every year. I hear what you’re saying i just don’t know if it’s comparable.
its comparable because its what we need to do.
draft a guy to compete with foles. just don’t trade the farm for a rookie qb. draft players to help the team be better.
If people knew what RW was before he got here (his major knock was size) people would have traded up for him and taken him earlier.
The funny thing is that b/c of our marriage to size requirements we probably wouldn’t even take a RW if he was there. He’d take a Foles and the rest would be history.
As far as I know, Kelly do not have the same requirement at QB as he as at like OLB, DL and CB (funny how most of his requirement seems to be on defense)
I think they have it for everyone based on metrics of people that have been successful in the pass, I’m sure height plays a part, as does hand size (probably more important). He def has those requirements for WRs…
Kelly does have hand size for QBs
that’s true. small qb’s have a hard time seeing over the line
short.
not small.
yeah short like vick
Pete Carroll never wanted Wilson, he didnt think he could win over Matt Cassell
yea exactly. and he did win and the rest is history. the point is he didn’t trade away everything for LUCK, or anyone, they built a team and had a qb competition.
They didn’t trade anything for Luck. They lost their all time great QB and stunk up the joint.
im not talking about the colts
Poor wording and context on your part.
not if you read what I was responding too.. it was about carrol and the hawks
No Pete Carroll got lucky as shit, no way he has a SB ring if his QB was still Matt Cassell.
Russell Wilson would have went in the first before Tannenhill had Wilson been 3 inches taller
Cassell never played for the Seahawks.
Man that 6-2 as a starter thing is bs i reckon.. Its a team sport but focuses on an individual?? Dont get it.. Who has this team won against?? Padding stats against losing teams.. Compete n win against winning teams.. Like beating up the Jags week after week check my record 10-2 know what i mean sheesh.. I’ll stay open minded but sit on the fence with Foles
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/1/15/7553363/the-current-state-of-the-qb-conversation-in-philadelphia-is-unbearable
you can only play the teams on the schedule. no one can play the jags every week, or the giants or the eagles, or the seahawks.
The point is to beat the good teams you need good performances from every player on your roster.
absolutely
haha cmon man you know what i mean
ok ok
Those rascally Colts get to play the Jags, Titans and Texans twice each year!
*shakes fist* Cooooooollllllts!!!
Sounds pretty similar to Giants (of the last few years) and Skins. Texans were also pretty good until that QB situation fell apart.
That is my fear, that Foles is pretty much Matt Schaub 2.0
Schaub is a much better passer than Foles (before he got old).
Parts of the team stepped up to cover the flaws of the other stinking parts. Some people won’t accept that.
BUT BUT BUT 14-4!!!! lets not forget who won us the first 4 games this year (the defense and ST as well as Darren Sproles)
I honestly think this team would be 7-9 without Parkey.
Well he did lose us a game, but I also think he won us one or two and his KO’s really helped, so I say 8-8
so then who lost us the other games… the defense.
the defense and poor QB trough the season lost us all 6 games this year
The biggest BS of the “6-2 as a starter” thing is the “as a starter” part. Sanchez played most of that 8th game. Is it technically correct? yes. Is it also intentionally misleading? yes.
I’m just here so I won’t get fined
just keep your hands up where we can see them.
Jeff McLane @Jeff_McLane 6s6 seconds ago
#Seahawks GM John Schneider said that Scott Fitterer interviewed with the #Eagles but that he’s staying in Seattle.
Ugh.
Well that sucks lol
Hmm why interview if you know you want to stay in Seattle though? Bit of a weird one.. Coulda just flat out said nah im staying so no need to interview..
Maybe he is interviewing to get a fell for what the Eagles job involve? and after that he found out its not what he wants right now?
He can most likely get a better GM by next year
True true ah well Chip not getting any breaks in the GM search
Make a cake; eat it.
Leveraging it against another offer. Trying to get a pay raise out of Seattle. Holding out for a better promotion. Putting his name in the hat as the next up and comer.
Plenty of reasons why you’d want to do that in such a small and cannibalistic job market.
Maybe that means that means that he didn’t make Kelly’s final cut. Eckel reported that Sheldon White had also interviewed. But it’s Eckel so I wouldn’t assume that actually happened.
Well, it sucks if we don’t get him, but at least Kelly tried.
Nobody outside the league circles knows if he’s really that qualified. But damn, that CV, those late round gems while he was the director of college scouting – just sounds too good to be true from a fan perspective, imho.
With all of this QB “controversy” still going on, can we all agree that we hope that Cody Parkey doesn’t regress? We don’t need a kicker carousel now.
Only the rarest of kicking birds don’t take steps back and forward.
With all those O-line issues Foles was sacked only 9 time in his 8 starts. Substantial improvement in sack numbers from 2013 (28 in 10 games, with a healthy O-line). Looked to me like he was consciously working on getting rid of the ball quicker. Unfortunately that aggressiveness led to turnovers. Foles is still a young QB with limited starts that’s working on improving his game. I look forward to seeing his work pay off next season.
I just watched the Nick Foles highlights and I have one question, who was that #14 guy catching all those passes.
Perry Fewell is the skins DB coach… i dont like the incest of passing coaches around the same division…i wouldnt want us hiring from the cowboys, giants or skins…. only person i want from our division trash rivals is ODB….. i want nothing to do with anything related to skins, Giants and Cowtrash
..
lol “people in the dallas organization believe Joseph Randle can be a 1400 yard rusher.. last wweek Dallas morning News said that Cowboys will feature Joseph Randle next year after losing Demarco lol
…
WOW COLTS are either Lucky, or REALLY Slick… instead of making Trent Richardson just inactive for the AFC championship… thbose slick bastards suspended him which voids the guarenteed 3million dollar base salary of next year, allowing the Colts to dump him..wow!! sneaky sneaky!!! i like your moves….impressive shiestynwess lol
Hey, just posting this here since you said you wouldn’t read anything I post or respond to it.
I agree with you on not wanting other NFCE teams trash. Only ODB and Dez Bryant would be great here.
Randle will get over 1k next year, but he is not as good as Murray (who might be broken down next year).
Remember that the Colts GM learned by Joe Banner
lol good call…. such a BANNER MOVE!!!
…
exactly why RBs are so undervalued…if you have a good OL doesnt take a special back these days to rack up 1k…. but i pray they have the audacity to convince themselves that losing Murray is no big deal and can easily be replaced with Randle… Ill be THRILLED if they think Randle is good enough to not draft a RB in the top 100….although we all know Jerry is going to want Adrian Peterson, but they are in cap hell, hopefully they cant move cap around and find A WAY to add AP..that would suck
Dez Bryant? One of the best WR in the game, but I’m sure Chip would hate his guts. Exactly not the kind of player Chip likes to have in the locker room.
None of Dez Bryant problems has ever been in the locker room and he has 100% cleaned him self up. I wouldnt be surprised if Dez was one of the hardest working guys in the NFL. He might have great talent, but he also uses every inch of that talent
i dunno about that mate…sounds like he has been hiding it well… didnt we hear about an incident where he left a baby in the car or something near the practice complex?
…
this is an interesting debate to have. we know certain jackasses chip wont touch…but what about guys like Dez Bryant, Micheal Irvin, or T.O? REALLY hard workering jackasses….these players work really hard at being great WRs, but can chip trust him to follow all his strict sports science to a T? can he count on them getting their sleep, eating certain things, following CHIPS maybeunconventional detailed sports science Plan? T.O probably would have….
…
chip also mentioned “what are you willing to sacrafice for the team” being an important question to ask when consering adding a player… T.O probably would get high grades in the team selflessness department….,
…
i dunno what to think of Dez and chip… these are the interesting Grey areas about chip that we probably dont know yet…chip can count on Dez to work his ass off, can he count on commitment to the sports science training? can chip deal with him screaming for an entire game on the sideline? i dont know what to think about the Jackasses who are great players and rea;lly hard workers…
yea, guys like Dez Bryant is a grey area, because while he might not be a choir boy, nobody can question his will to win.
As you said, TO was a work maniac and most likely already did a ton of right things in terms of what he put in his body. Problem with TO was he wasnt a very good teammate.
Chip: so TOn, if we sign you, what would you be willing to Sacrafice for the good of the team?”
..
TO: ” NOT a DAMN THING! I want my money, I want my touchdowns, I want my yards, and I want my catches…..in that Order!
…
Wonder who will be the first Charecter exception chip makes? So far only thing close is Bryan Braman, and his issues were stupid kid drug issues from years ago, when we signed Braman he was a married man trying to deal with a new born baby…. His Charecter is no longer in question…
.
So far, not only hasnt chip added any questionable characters, but he jettisoned Desean after a probowl season for common WR diva Jackassery lol… But chip could be going to extremes with the character right now just to build the locker room.. Once he trusts our locker room can handle it, maybe we see some “Grey area” additions added, assume the guy would have to be really really talented, also assume we miss out on a lot of opportunities for talent because of not fitting Charecter requirements
Sign TO go to the super bowl. Some guys are just too talented. Yes Dez is a head case, but what would Dallas be w/out him. Yes Djax is a head case, but would they have won a single game without him last year? Say the same for Blount, Lynch, Suh, Adam Jones, Aldon Smith, James Harrison, i mean there’s tons of these guys in the history of football.
Not everyone is like Megatron.
I agree with your general point, but I’d separate head cases like TO and Dez from felons like All-done Smith and Pac Man. If a guy has a suspension history, that is a red flag no matter if he’s the nicest guy in the locker room………….or TO.
You gotta respect TOs dedication to the game, sits ups in the driveway…CK’s gotta love that
Shame the Reid didn’t let Runyan just beat the crap out of TO when that nonsense all started.
Yea but apparently the cops have been to Dez’s house 4 times in the last year, so I think you would have to start to slide him more into the latter category and out of the DIVA WR category.
I think in that story though, the cops were there because he locked his keys in the car with a baby inside and another because his house was broken into. And it was over a 3 year period, I think. I wouldn’t describe that as him being in trouble.
“and he has 100% cleaned him self up”
I’m not so sure about that. Plus, he’s in a contract year. That always scares me (it even does with Maclin, if you look at blocking, f.e., but at least Mac is known to be a high character guy), it scares me x100 with a guy like Dez.
I’m fine with Foles starting in 2015, as long as we have a backup plan that isn’t Matt Barkley.
Bucs are probably going to trade Mike Glennon, i would love to get that kid, start grooming him .. i always saw something in Glennon,and never understood why the Bucs werent giving him the time to grow so they could find out…. id love to get him on our roster…big kid, stylistically similar to Nick, perfect backup
The thing that gets lost in the offensive line injury excuse is that Foles didn’t look very good a lot this season. I think people tend to forget that. But we all saw those games and he didn’t look very good a lot of the time.
I could go either way on Foles, so whatever Kelly decides is fine with me (as long as he doesn’t give him away for nothing). Chip Kelly is the guy that’s going to be staking his job on the decision.
report: Pats havent ruled out picking up Revis 20million dollar option for 2015.. Revis and Bellichek have fallen in love so you can bet Revis is back, only question is will it be the 20million dollar 1 year deal or can they work out an extension by april… Keeping Revis is IMPORTANT, they just paid Chung… if they also keep Browner, that means Devin McCourty most likely hits the open market! if the eagles are going to spend big money, there are few players who are a more perfect fit than he is who also happens to fill a major need
…
the Eagles dont just go into free agency, look at a need, and go after the best player that fills that need… thats not how we work, if we sign a fr5ee agent, it isnt because he is the best availablke, its because we really want him and believe he is a great fit…. just because we have a major need, doesnt mean there will be someone available in free agency who the eagles believe is a fit to fill that need…. Devin McCourty reaching free agency is HUGE, because that means there will be a really good player available who the eagles are going to really really think highly of and go after…..really really need the Patriots to keep Browner!!
It’s interesting b/c for years Pats haven’t gone to the super bowl in part b/c they’ve had a TERRIBLE secondary. This year they get Browner and Revis and were are they (defaltegate aside).
truth!! i have a feeling Bellichek feels like he is in defensivce heaven with those two corners that are giving him the flexability to do so many things, where past years he had to scheme to help his corners…im hoping he just is so happy to have these corners that he isnt willing to part with them…and i wouldnt put it past Bellichek to think he can let a kid like McCourty get away..
…..,.
dont really believe in paying 4 DBs good money, feel like thats allocating too much to one thing, which is why i dont think Seattle can keep Maxwell, and why the Pats have to lost McCourt,or the corners…and probably go with a rookie contract. i find it hard to believe that they would pay chung, pay to keep the corners, and pay what it takes to keep McCourty… but who knows they could
always franchise him
I think your logic is probably sound – helps that they are paying blount the league minum to run for 150 yds and 3 tds
thats my one concern about chip… i worry that he is too limited and waste some good opportunities because of strict ideals…. for example, would chip EVER touch a guy like LaGarrett mid season after being kicked off the team for jackass behavior and getting arrested for smoking wee the day traveling to a preseason game? would chip have ever added Blount like Belllichek did? doubt it….and now bellichek is rewarded by riding this horse to the sduperbowl
.,..
Blount vs. BEASTMODE interesting that the big bruising backs, not the shift gio nernard. shady McCoy type backs are advancing late into the playoffs…. take a look at the last 3 AFC and NFC CHAMPIONSHIP Games, and what types of backls those teams had? /eddie Lacy? Lynch? Blount? Frank Gore? justin Forsett/bernard pierce…. kind of interesting. dont see too many shady or jamaal charles type feature backs..ray rice made a few afc title games…what other shift bacls have gone deep in recent playoffs?
We don’t need Blount. We have Polk.
c’mon. You can’t give Polk a full workload or he’s out 2 weeks w/ a shoulder or a hammy.
i love that kid… i think extremely highly of him/… i hate to admit this, but there were times where it crossed my mind that i wouldnt mind seeing shady have to miss a game or two so I can see Polk in an extended role….. Kid can run, kid can bang, he can block, and he is a surprisingly good pass catching RB… i really really like that kid and cant wait til the day we really see what he can do in a big role..
…
we also grossly over rate his injury issues, especially recently. He has been injured alot, but he hasnt been missing alot of games…its not the end of the world for me if he gets hurt and misses a month of training camp, he is a veteran with two years in this offense, as long as he doesnt miss games, im happy……. of course there is also the concerning possibility that injuries wont allow him to withstand a bigger role….. hopefully that isnt the case, because really really think he is one of the most under rated RBs…if he ever gets a chance, he will make noise..
Ray Rice was also a bruiser when needed (check the tape). But i 100% agree with you. I’m sure chip has noticed too.
Right the Pats finally paid more attention to their DB’s and if they win the SB, the top 25 stories will be Brady wins his 4th.
Yup yup… Fortunately I doubt they can win… I’m starting to think they are cheaters, who have cheated in various different ways that we don’t even know about over the years. I have a feeling they have been giving themslves all types of advantages in big games over the years. They have been linked to cheating in every Super Bowl they won….. NO OTHER SB champions have been accused of cheating…. I have no proof obviously, but im thinking all eyes will be on them so they won’t dare try any funny u business..and in a straight up. Fair playing field, seattle Kicks their ass…… ATleast I hope..
…
What has Bellicek ever accomplished all his years as a head coach before the first cheating allegation in the Super Bowl against the Rams?
My fear is: they let Browner walk. Great player (and has the size that’s so important for Chip), but we won’t be interested in him because of off the field stuff. They keep McCourthy and Revis, two player I’d love to see on our roster. And we’ll get nothing for that.
Would not surprise me if that’s the outcome.
my thing is…. i dont think Bellichek is going to want to Pay Revis AND give McCourty a 45million dollar deal.. Browner isnt cheap, but i dont think he would require they type of investment McCourty wants coming off his rookie contract… but we’ll see.
…
there are other safeties we might like and view as upgrades to Nate, but nothing like McCourty…McCourty/jenkins tandem is what allows the eagles to get away with Cary and Nolan until the young corners we draft take their spots, and once the young corners take their spot, McCourty and Jenkins behind young inexperienced corners would be a big help.;..
…
im not sure the eagles can sign a safety like Rahim Moore and get away with starting Cary and Nolan in september until the rookies take their spot
Since Fitterer is not a fit in Philly I won’t be surprised if we hear in the next 24 hours the Eagles announcing their new GM.
It’d be funny if they had a press conference because a good chunk of the Philly media is in Arizona.
An example of why I hate the media. John Schneider says at a PC that the Eagles interviewed Fitterer and that Fitterer is staying with the Seahawks. The media(Jeff McLane, Geoff Mosher) report that Fitterer “turned down the job.” That is NOT what Schneider said and, unless they have other information(which they did not report), that is bush league unacceptable reporting.
i couldnt possibly agree more… the problem is, what me and you view as “bush league unacceptable reporting” has become ” Reporting” in our Local sports media….. its sad that what you used as an Example, has practically become the norm… its amazing to me how a fanbase so passionate about a team, who cares so much, who wants to know EVERYTHING about their team, gets the most pathetic local coverage imaginable….i literally cant fathom what could possibly be worse than the coverage Eagles fans get (obviously there are few examples)
…
and actually I often wondered if what Makes Ty Law one of the really good few, is that he isnt local, thus the stench and crap of our local trash reporting hasnt rubbed off on him.
The difference is he does it for love not money. Means he can be fair and balanced.
It is the story of U.S. media in general: There is a shield, a brand, a credential that shouts “professional”, and the public generally eats it up and assumes there is “objectivity”. There is no objectivity. They are well paid, and under-educated. Because they are employed by a monied corporation they are arrogant. Tommy holds no such pretenses. He wants the Eagles to win, and he is sharing his pure fandom, along with fundamentally sound insights. Social media has really shown our American journalists to be seriously compromised by their own agendas.
They may have other information.
It wouldn’t be very tactful for Schneider to put it in those terms.
Speculating on what they may or may not know is doing exactly what you find so “bush league.”
This is an exact quote by Schneider: “He spoke with the Philadelphia Eagles, kept it on the down low. He’s staying with us.”
To characterize that as Fitterer “turning the Eagles down” or “opting to stay with Seattle” is absolutely bush league and unprofessional. If they have information suggesting otherwise then it is their responsibility to clarify that. It’s called journalistic standards. True professional reporters don’t misconstrue quotes and add their own characterizations of information. When true professional reporters report information, they detail the origin or source of that information. I can speculate all I want here on a message board. I am not a professional reporter. There aren’t many left out there.
Right, I get it. My only point is that you’re assuming those guys *only* have the *same* information we have.
If that’s the case, then I agree with you. Just don’t believe it.
That’s fine but if they have that info add the tag of “sources close to the Seahawks” or “league insiders” say that Fitterer turned down the job. Instead, they’re just misconstruing what Schneider said. McLane starts out his article like this: “The Eagles interviewed the Seahawks’ director of college scouting, Scott Fitterer, for their personnel executive opening, but he decided to stay in Seattle, Seahawks general manager John Schneider said Tuesday.” Then, a paragraph down he has the exact quote I said before and that quote does not justify his wording that Fitterer decided to stay with the Seahawks. Plus, it’s not as if McLane doesn’t say when he has sourced information. Later on in the article, he writes this: “The Eagles requested interviews with the
Chiefs’ Chris Ballard and the Buccaneers’ Jon Robinson, but they were denied the opportunity by both teams. Sources close to both situations said neither was interested in meeting with the Eagles.” If he says here that sources are telling him that Ballard and Robinson weren’t interested in the job, then one would think if he had sources saying that Fitterer indeed turned down the job then he would spell that out. It seems to me that he’s just not careful with his wording and maybe I obsess about these things too much but the issue I have is that one mischaracterization then gets spread around the other media and becomes accepted fact. I’m probably going overboard in calling him and others such as Mosher unprofessional, but IMO they are lacking in attention to detail.
We can argue about the Philly press all we want. The sad fact is that my personally favourite candidate is not coming to the eagles.
That’s fair
I mean in his defense just earlier this week the beats were claiming that Chris Polian was next to a done deal.
All of that aside, the remaining candidates are worse.
If you’re looking for the guy with the strongest background in just college scouting, perhaps. I think White has the best overall resume.
Yeah, but of a weak group. Like being the toughest kid in a Catholic or private school.
BOB Kraft was such a clown..came on TV getting tough, throwing haymakers off the bat, with his crap “i will demand appology if no evidence is found”…IF??? why didnt you say I will demand and appology WHEN No evidence is found? didnt you just tell us how you know you can 100% rust Tom and Bill…. i actually think CRaft is in the dark and in denial….i also like how a few times he reffered to “Roger” calling Goodell by his first name…a kind of reminder to Goodell about how close they are and that Craft had his friend Rogers back when the nation wanted his head for the ray rice debacle…
…
now, if Roger actually does side with Pats, brushes this under the table with a slap on the wrist again, is Roger going to piss off the owners of the steelers, Rams, Colts, Ravens, Eagles, Bills, Dolphins, Jets…. teams that have lost big games to the cheaters, often times accusations attached to the losses…
…
if this story was about the cleveland Browns, would Goodell be treating them the same as the Pats are being treated?
..
lol these idiots have the audacity to blame science, temperature lol.. i could see if it effected 1 or 2 balls…but you have to be a junkie or delusional to think you are going to get me to believe that temperature magically deflated 11 of your 12 balls, when the same temperature did NOTHING to ANY of the Colts ball..
…
video of an equipment manager taking 12 balls in the bathroom with him where no cameras were recording him…Pats argue that he was only in their for 90 seconds, how bad do you want to insult our intelligence? it takes two second to take two pounds of air out of a ball you dope… they could have easily done 11 balls in 45 seconds, with another 45 seconds to spare…
….
and why are the Patriots getting so angry at Goodell and the media? something Obviously wasnt right about the balls whether they were tampered with or naturally deflated, if we have an issue, why would you be mad at the NFL for trying to find out what happened? if 11 of the 12 colts balls lost air, would you be mad that the NFL is trying to find out what happened and why the colts balls were deflated?
…
Craft was one of the few Pats i respected…. i lost respect for the man last night after that press conference…. REALLY FOOLISH POOR TASTE, PRESS CONFERENCE
why does the guy going to the bathroom make it less likely of tampering? I would think that makes it more likely. You have the balls for only what 10 minutes, but during those 10 minutes you need to go to the bathroom and all the balls disappear from camera views. What a f’ing coincidence.
EXACTLY!! That’s what I said… And all the security around, you going to take a 90 second piss you can’t leave the balls with a security guard or assistant in the locker room while you go in the bathroom for 90 seconds? You rather take 12 footballs with you?
…
Basically, Bob Craft to me came off like someone who knows he is guilty, but confidently knows NFL won’t find out.. Like he paid someones off or destroyed whatever evidence,…for what it’s worth, the guy who was video taping the SPYGATE incident tapes from the Patriots almost a decade ago… Today he lives in a nice house in Hawaii… Lol I’m just saying…. Wouldn’t be surprised if the dude that went in the bathroom With those balls doesn’t magically recieve like 2million cash 6months from now, with 2 mil conveniently missing from one of Crafts accounts lol
It is exactly the kind of thing you do in the bathroom
The best Possible outcome of this Super Bowl has to be BEASTMODE a running wild for like 300 yards and 4TDs so he would undeniably be awarded the Super Bowl MVP, which means he would have to do a Big Monday Morning Joiint Press Conference with Roger Goodell….. My popcorn will be ready….
the best outcome would be Belicheck and Brady being suspended from the game 10 minutes before the game.
Ahhhh man, Best Super Bowl EVER!!! Lol
…
Jimmy Garropolo and josh MCDaniels vs. The Legion of Boom?.
..
YES PLEASE!!!
The only downside would be they would just come out like Jameis did this year, except Goodell would let them stay.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3887/15116218438_44b0774df3_o.gif
So Grantland does an article on the defensive championship belt, like which team from each year held the belt etc.
So 1991 Eagles, who we all know as the best defense of all time, wasn’t even considered the best defense that year.
Grantland is a bunch of NYC / Boston d-bag who can all die screaming of a terminal illness.
They are really biased. They give so much shit to the Sixers meanwhile celtics trade away pierce, Garnett and now rondo. That is somehow completely different.
I’m still waiting for the national media article saying “The zenmaster is ruining the NBA, I mean for God’s sake, He was actively trying for half the year and was worse than the 6ers”
Bill Barnwell needs to be punched in his f-ing face for listing Washington for 91 instead of the Eagles. I sense some Twitter based harassment coming on.
That’s absurd
Dan Dierdorf, another person who I can’t wait to see die of a horrible illness, said live on the air on a MNF broadcast in 91 that Washington’s D was better than the Eagles.
I don’t know how people could see the 91 Eagles D and come up with a conclusion other than it was the greatest defense in the history of the concept of defending things.
Yes, because being an annoying media personality, justifies wishing the plague on him.
I’ll wish more than that on him, but I’m afraid of using language that might get flagged.
Thx. Report back how it goes. I’m not on twitter.
New Orleans’s D was better than Washington’s that year. Not even close.
Saints were #1 in points against, #2 in total yards, #2 in passing yards, #2 in rushing yards, #1 in turnovers. 8 games yielding a TD or less. 2 shutouts. 2 games of only 3 points.
Washington’s not close at all.
My point was eagles are he pick not whether Washington or saints.
Grantland rarely mentions the Eagles if at all. Barnwell is a Giants fan, so I assume not saying anything is better than trashing us all the time.
my favorite part of this joke of a cheating deflate Gate is seeing how guilt Bellicheat looks showing up to one press conference in a nice dress shirt and Pats jacket, and he showed up to another in a suite and Tie…. OJ Simpson looked less guilty if he showed up to court wearing the infamous Gloves…
[…] Here’s why you shouldn’t take Nick Foles for granted. […]
The Fitterer thing is really depressing. The other candidates are either more suited to be a butler, working off of their dad’s name, or some stiff within our organization who nobody else is trying to hire.
I think Sheldon White is the best candidate personally. 2nd would be Grier.
Not impressed with either of those two guys at all.
Maybe this is the draft Chip wants, and no GM will put their name with it;
Round 1 Pick 20: Arik Armstead, DE, Oregon (B-)
Round 2 Pick 20: Jake Fisher, OT, Oregon (B)
Round 3 Pick 20: Tony Washington, OLB, Oregon (C)
Round 4 Pick 14: Derrick Malone Jr., OLB, Oregon (F)
Round 4 Pick 20: Erick Dargan, SS, Oregon (D-)
Round 5 Pick 20: Bryan Bennett, QB, Southeastern Louisiana (F)
Round 6 Pick 20: Connor Halliday, QB, Washington State (F)
Round 7 Pick 20: Jerry Lovelocke, QB, Prairie View A&M (F)
Lol just perfect!!!
Will this be the least talented group of WR’s between the two teams, in Super Bowl history?
…
I’m enjoying watching Dion Sanders explain to Doug Baldwin why him and Kearse arent Elite WRs LOL… Baldwin really doesn’t get it lol
Worries me Seattle won’t be able to score.
Seriously?
[…] Don’t Overlook Nick – Iggles BlitzI’m not telling you Foles is the answer at QB and the Eagles are all set. I do think we might be a bit quick in dismissing him. I don’t know that the Eagles are going to find a better QB for 2015. And I think Foles can play a lot better than he did in 2014. The one issue that can’t be ignored is durability. Foles has gotten hurt in each of his 3 NFL seasons. If he is the Eagles starter this year, they need a quality backup in place. […]
trade Foles for Kaepernick? Maybe Colin just needs the right system for him? And maybe Foles is more traditional QB that would fit better in SF? something to consider
https://bft.usu.edu/t67w2
https://bft.usu.edu/t67w2
If the NFL would increase the salary cap (and floor?) by 25% we wouldn’t be overly concerned about cutting or not resigning otherwise reasonably-price players. a Herrimans quality player for 5m/year is NOTHING in any of the other major pro sports. He may not be the best OL in the league, or even on the team, but he’s a solid player that’s well liked by us, well respected by teammates, and plays every position except C. That’s worth a lot even if he’s now an average lineman.
I hate to think this but, I just have the strangest feeling that if Mariota falls far enough, the Redskins, who select at number 5 will nab him. It was reported by profootballtalk Thursday that, in a promotional letter to their premium season ticket holders thanking them for their support the Redskins wrote, ” Head coach Jay Gruden, new General Manager Scot McCloughand defensive coordinator Joe Barry will lead a nucleus of Ryan Kerrigan, DeSean Jackson, plus Pro Bowlers Trent Williams and Alfred Morris. The Redskins are poised to rebound next season!” the letter read. Noticeably absent was the name of one RGIII. H-m-m-m!! What to make of this? Now most “experts” (okay, Todd McShay) think the Raiders may select Jameis Winston. Well…it could happen. I’d hate to think of the Redskins getting another highly ranked quarterback and this time, they wouldn’t have to break the bank.