Saturday Notebook
Posted: May 23rd, 2015 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 176 Comments »Eagles OTAs start soon, which will give us our first look at the team. Are you excited to see players in shorts running around in non-contact drills? It isn’t football, but we’re all desperate for news on the new players and the young players we hope improve from last year. This is where we start to get our first nuggets of info, even though much of it is useless.
Jimmy Bama wrote a good piece (even a broken clock is right twice a day) on the OTAs and some positions to watch. I thought he had a really good breakdown of the Safety position.
Safety: Hard to keep track of what’s going on there
The Eagles are set at one safety spot, with Malcolm Jenkins. And then there are all kinds of contenders to be the “other safety,” which are broken up into three buckets:
1) Actual safeties: This would include guys like Earl Wolff, Jerome Couplin III, and Ed Reynolds. Wolff is clearly the leading contender to start among this group.
2) “Versatile guys” who have played safety at some point, or could get some looks there: This would include Jaylen Watkins, Nolan Carroll, Walter Thurmond, E.J. Biggers, JaCorey Shepherd, and Randall Evans.
3) Special teams mavens who also play safety: Chris Maragos and Chris Prosinski
There could be 11 or more guys competing for the starting safety job opposite Jenkins. That’s going to be a confusing competition.
It hadn’t occurred to me to split the players into sub-groups, but that’s actually an interesting way to look at them.
The 2 guys I’m most interested in are Couplin and Prosinski. Couplin has a good combination of size, athleticism and physicality. I’m just not sure he covers well enough for the Eagles and their style of defense. Prosinski came here during the season and made his mark on STs right away. He’s had time to learn the defense. Can he challenge for playing time or is he another guy that lacks the man cover skills?
I think the 2 key players are Wolff and Watkins. They feel like the guys with the best chance of winning the starting job.
Make sure to check out Jimmy’s article to see his ideas on how to take advantage of the Eagles depth at ILB. Typical Bama creativity.
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Eric Rowe had some interesting things to say about his first meeting with Chip Kelly and the Eagles.
“[Kelly] wasn’t doing anything, he just had his arms crossed,” Rowe said. “He didn’t ask any of the questions. Everything I would say, he was jotting it down. It was just really intimidating.
“When I left the room, I was just like, ‘man, that was tough.’ They were asking me questions left and right.”
“I remember a question like, ‘how many tackles have I missed,’ and when I gave him my answer he was challenging my answer. It was intimidating.
“I said, ‘In the past year, I’ve probably missed four or five tackles.’ And he just kept challenging me, saying ‘So if I look back at all of the film, only four or five?’ I was like, ‘yes.’ He said, ‘The whole season? If I see over five in there, I’m challenging your answer.’ “
According to the article, Rowe said Kelly has gotten much more friendly since then. Rowe also likes Bill Davis and the way Davis is bringing along the young guys.
I think it is smart for a coach to challenge a player on some of his answers. Agents teach players what to say and how to act these days so you have to find a way to cut through the BS and get real answers. That’s the only way you’ll know what’s genuine and what’s a polished interview performance.
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Here is some perspective on the Eagles OL from someone who focuses on evaluating that position.
Top-5 @nfl Offensive Line units when in tact without injury: 1) Green Bay 2) Dallas 3) Cleveland 4) Ravens 5) Eagles
— Duke Manyweather (@BigDuke50) May 22, 2015
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From the Humor Dept.
I might have to unfollow Tony Romo if he keeps tweeting about how much he misses DeMarco. HE PLAYS FOR THE EAGLES NOW. Let it go, Tony.
— Skip Bayless (@RealSkipBayless) May 20, 2015
Don't hold off on Mariota to the Eagles just yet… http://t.co/VwFhrzqXME
— FakeWIPCaller (@FakeWIPCaller) May 23, 2015
FakeWIPCaller might be my favorite person on Twitter. So relentless and always entertaining.
_
Thinking Maragos, Jenkins and Jaylen Watkins are locks to make the roster. I would assume I can add Wolff to that list, but there are so many contenders, he won’t be gifted a roster spot, but I would be surprised if he didn’t make the roster….
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no clue who will seperate themselves from the pack of contenders. I don’t think Reynolds should be ruled out. And I won’t be surprised if Rowe ends up starting at safety instead of corner…
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I don’t view Prosinki as a safety, like Maragos and Braman, I view Proz as a ST player, lucky for him, few coaches spend more roster spots on ST guys then chip, so he certainly has a spot to stick..
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If a young fringe player wants To make the roster as a safety, he would be smart to try and out play Proz in special teams…
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I like Rowe at safety more then CB.
Out of Rowe and Byron jones, I viewed Jones as the better corner, Rowe as the better safety.. I think Rowe can grow to play eithet at a high level, but I could see us having better corner options if we play Rowe at safety, then better safety options if we play Rowe at corner..
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But who the hell really knows. Truth is we have so much youth at safety, no fan or media member really has a clue how our safety battle will unfold… These are all young players. We can project their ceilings, but we have no way of knowing which will Improve the most since we last saw them… Going to have to play the wait and see game, and trust that coach Undlin will find a solid starter out of all these contenders..
I see Rowe as a better S then CB, but better at both positions then Jones. Rowe has better game tape at CB then Jones does. It’s Jones’s combine that made him as attractive as he was. Not saying Jones won’t be a good player.
I’m not saying Rowe will be bad at CB either, I like him there, I just like him at S more. Ideally Thurmond stays healthy which allows Rowe to take a stab at S.
Can’t really disagree with you about Rowe. I do believe we can grow him into a nice player at either spot, but if I had it my way, considering our current roster, I would probably prefer starting him at safety… I’m anxious to move him back to Saftey and See how much better he can be at safety now that he got a year of cornerback experience. Having now seen the game thru the eyes of a corner, and now knowing what the corners are really doing, should help him become a better safety. Rowe is physical enough to play safety, and it looks like he has plenty of room on his frame to add Some more muscle if we decide to go the safety route with him.
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Needs to improve his tackling to play safety for us, but our coaches already have proven to be able to fix tackling problems in playërs games, and even more I pressive they can do it without tackling each other down to the grow in practice risking injury to our players… Its awesome to see that we don’t beat each other up in camp, but we can still be a good tackling defense even tho we practice “Thuds”, Instead of full blown tackling in practice.,,
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I would throw Rowe into the safety competition, and keep him there unless we start to be dissapointed with the Nolan/Thurmond/Boykin/JaCorey starting outside CB competition… I’m hoping Walter or Carroll can be a better CB option then a rookie..
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I think we can use Rowe at CB, keep him there his entire career and he will have a great career, but even tho I love this kid, I DESPISE ROOKIE CB’s… I fundamentally don’t believe in It..
I agree with everything you said. I know you are high on Thurmond like I am, and not as low on Carroll as others are. I have the same view on Thurmond and Carroll as you do and that’s another reason as to why I would like Rowe to play S besides the fact that I think he is better suited to it then CB.
As far as his tackling I believe it’s something that may take a full year to really develop. He is a physical player, has a good frame, and has the mindset to become a better tackler so I don’t think it’s an issue that will haunt him for long. It’s not like he is a bad tackler.
It’s possible that Rowe could be the best safety candidate, but if he’s the least sucky CB, they’d probably keep him there.
Shouldn’t Rowe be considered under the versatile guys since he has more experience at S then CB?
I think they will play him at CB all season. They need a CB2 next year (no one under contract outside of rookies and Watkins), and all DB’s tend to need a year to bed into the NFL and learn the game.
If you decide he does not have the skills or athleticism to play CB after a year you move him to Safety at that point.
I hear you on that point. You are absolutely right in the aspect that we don’t have a #2 CB signed for next year.
However unless Wolff or Watkins really show up this year we may not really have a legitimate safety across from Jenkins THIS year.
If Rowe plays safety this year for us we do not have a legitimate safety starting opposite Jenkins. It is so hard to start as a DB in the NFL, projecting anyone into a starting position unless it is really hard and they are going to get burnt at times.
Think Watkins has skills to be average at Safety and i like Wolff when he is on the field….
I despise rookie corners
He’s better as a CB than a S.
Yes, there are alot of people that think that and there are alot of people that think the opposite.
I think it depends a lot on the scheme he would be playing in, but the way the Eagles use their corners is ideal for what I’ve seen him do.
Not that he wouldn’t be a good safety, but I think it would be under-utilizing some of the things he does best.
He’s a bigger Damarious Randall if you move him to S.
No thanks.
And one can make an argument that it would be foolish to invest assets to move up to get a guy who’d be an imperfect safety.
God, the Giants are f-ing stupid. I can’t wait to see Landon Collins toasted 3 or 4 times a game over the top………..after getting run over in the run game as well.
What I love about the CB / Safety competition is there will be multiple players trained to play corner, slot, and safety in this defense. DB coaches must be salivating at the influx of talent and possibilities.
I’m interested in seeing how Boykin responds to the competition in camp and his diminished play from last season (played hurt?). Does he step up and show growth or was 2013 his plateau?
The DB competition is going to be spirited – when Chip reached year 3 as HC in the Oregon program, the 7 on 7 and 11 on 11 offense vs defense drills became very competitive, with the defense winning more consistently than in prior years. Expect this year’s D to give our O all they can handle – really excited for our D.
What I love is, we are so deep with young DB talent, we are going to have a big competiton with a bunch of hungry young DBs for two starting spots in the secondary….we signed a big name Super Bowl champion from the famous Legion of Boom, which grew into an elite SB team based off of Hiungry daily practice competition. Byron Is going to bring the swag, and set the tone for the daily practice competition and WHATS HUGE is Before these young DBs even became Eagles, most of them probably looked up to Byron Maxwell, he okayee for one of the most famous secondaries of the decade.? These kids are going to respect the heck out of him, and he will set a great example with his competitive practice Habbits.. Heck We have 3! DBs from the seahawks, just the way guys like thurmond, Maxwell, maragos are’ used to practicing should be a great example got the young secondary..you can bet every single day Maxwell takes the field he will be focused on beating our offense,that day, and what’s even cooler is we have a bunch of Hungry, wotkoholic, young WRs that are looking to step up and win these starting jobs at WR who are going to get after it in practice.,
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You know Jordan, Agholot, Huff these guys are going to be foaming at the mouth to test themselves against a cornerback from the LOB… They are going to go hard at Byron, and that’s a proud dude with swag who played his way up from a late round pick,i doubt he is just going to let young WRs make their name off him in practice.,
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We should see more talent then ever, in a spirited, highly competitive camp environment amongst brothers trying to help each other improve… Iron sharpens Iron”.
GE – You’re optomism is great. After reading your post I can’t wait for training camp.
Do you ever not post a wall of text? You’re all over every article’s comment section.
Really solid OL rankings from Big Duke..
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In the NFC, I don’t see any other teams with an OL that can dethrone the Eagles, Cowboys and Packers as the top 3 OLs in the NFC when at full strength
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I really don’t love any of the OLs in the AFC.. Ravens and Browns probably deserve the top spots in the AFC. Raven have some older studs, they are also dealing with their own Mathis type contract headache..
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Out of these 5 lines, doubt any of them are equipped to handle the injuries we dealt with last year and still play at an elite level..think we are a little better at overcoming injuries then last year now that guys have more experience and their bodies are a year more mature..
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If our injury situation looks closer to 2013 then 2014. It could be a really fun year for us… But any time we ever have absurd amount of injuries as last year, we can kiss the season goodbye,
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Hopefully Hulls, training Staff and rHE sports science division earn their pay this year… Kind of would like to see Hulls and our training staff, exchange some ideas with the training staff of the Pheonix Suns.
I don’t agree with Packers having the best offensive line, they have a decent unit, but so much is set up off Aaron Rogers ability as the best passer in football combined with real mobility. Passing game stops them stacking the box, which allows run game to shine, and they don’t face to many exotic blitz’s because Rogers can roll out and just punish them with his passing or legs, bringing down sack numbers since people tend to play zone coverages and drop 7 into coverage on 3rd down.
Nah their legit.. Take rodgers out of the equation and they still outplayed our DL, I remember well because I was furious watching the game film at how well they handled us.. Rodgers helps, but I cant take nothing away from them..they took it to our DL. That rookie center was Legit, BLuga had a solid year and they have One of the best guards in the league…besides the Eagles and Cowboys I can’t think of a better OL in the NFC then the Packers… cardinals are also on their way to a solid OL
Yeah, I never felt as though they had one of the elite lines. I think running slightly more this past year helped them as well.
You’re optimistic at best, delusional at worst
Looking like Texans are probably going to do HardKnocks.. If Bill Obrien DOESNT completely oppose it, you can bet the NFL will probably want the Texans over all the other options,.NFL will eat up the chance to push JJ Watt in the spotlight,..Clowney coming back from injury, Arian fosters fake English accent. A quasi QB competition…. Should be a good season for fans, KInd of surprised if OBrien allows it
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Many think Chip will run back to college if he doesn’t win these next 3 years. I don’t know if we will ever have another coach for 14 years, but I could see chip lasting a decade… Think he loves the football 24houra a day of the NFL and WOULDNT have the patience to go back to college and deal with kids with priorities like “pesky classes” lol… I also think chip was never teying to build a team, he was trying to walk a balance of building a program, while trying to be as coetitive as possibke each year…2013 was a pretty good team, but when we look back on the chip era I think 2013 team won’t look anything like what we see in 2016,17,18… Think it will take chip 4-5 years to build the program he has in mind, and once he gets to that point, I assume he will want to play with that “toy” and coach that team for 3-4 years, so I don’t at all think it’s far fetched to see chip have an 8-10yr tenure…
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What’s interesting is if chip is going to stick around another 6 years, you have to think Goodelll is going to start snooping around, trying to pressure chip into doing HardKnocks. I assume chip would be emphatically against this, But if we have some success, people even other NFL coaches would be fascinated to see us on HardKnocks,.. Heck, you can probably take HardKnocks off HBO and put it on pay per view and the ratings would still be up there with past seasons if you could get chip and the Eagles to do the show,…. Give anything to see it after all the teasin from every rookie we draft raving about how “different this place is”….
Pretty sure if a team doesn’t have a new coaching staff and hasn’t made the post season in the past 2 league years they can’t deny hard knocks.
Yup. But I think the league would prefer to have a team agree to do it instead of forcing someone to do it
O’Brien will 100% lay grief to the camera crew at every turn.
Foster uses a fake English accent?
Yeah he jokes around with an English accent and now the media always asks him to do it in his interviews
Lol. I thought you meant he just started to try and talk in an English accent all the time.
You do know that FakeWIPCaller just rips-off BGN posts, don’t you Tommy?
In fact, Brandon Lee Gowton just posted an article today on BGN entitled “Mariota to the Eagles Isn’t Dead Yet” (it’s just below his “Why Tim Tebow is Much Better Than Nick Foles Ever Was Or Will Be” piece).
I think that if, and this is if, Byron Maxwell and Eric Rowe both work out how we hope, that we’ll be ok with being weak at one safety spot. Being set with good/solid players at 3/4 secondary spots sure beats the 1 or 1.5 good/solid secondary players we had last year.
That being said, something about the way things have gone with Earl Wolfe isn’t inspiring confidence in me, so I’m not overly optimistic about that second safety spot. If we can get even mediocre play out of the position that would be a huge boost.
outside of that safety position, the defense is going to be so much better then Last year, that I think we should be able to handle a young safety Learning on the fly… That safey spot might be inexperienced, but it’s well protected sorrounded with serious talent… That young safety will have Malcolm Jenkins to his left, Byron Maxwell in front of him and to the left, Kiko, Kendricks/Mufasa in front of him…. And a BEASTLY front 7..
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Double digit sacks for:
Barwin
BG
Curry
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Hopefully Cox and MS2 can combine for another 10 sacks…
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And everyone already knows we have one of the best run defenses in the league
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Hopefully the defense stays healthy, if it does, Going to be a fun defense
I really like Jaylen Watkins as a safety in our defensive scheme. I think he could be a pleasant surprise this year.
Is Kempski digital? Broken digital clocks on 24-hour time are right only once a day.
There is only one person who is truly digital.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IdsOra9NBxs/maxresdefault.jpg
I’d like to see Couplin get a chance with the ones. He seems made for Chip in that he’s tall, smart, and stuffs the run, and the team has a big time hole for him to fill. His cover skills are reportedly inconsistent but can’t he just move his arms back and forth and hope he tips it? Watkins would probably be a better at the slot and dime packages, but Couplin could be ok covering in the NFL. Forbes magazine thinks he’s the “next NFL superhero” and all the real football pros trust Forbes for their scouting reports.
I think you’re going to see just about everybody “get a chance” to start next to Jenkins. None of these dudes are known quantities. I’d love to see Couplin. I’d love to see Wolff now that he’s moved beyond the quack doctors that fouled up his knee diagnosis. I’d love to see Watkins.
I’d love to see ANYBODY other than Nate Allen.
Exactly. As long as someone steps up, I’ll be happy. We’ll see what Undlin can do. Defense has a chance to be fun to watch.
On a completely separate note here, In Ireland today the All Ireland Hurling series kicks off at 4pm (11am for you guys on the east coast) with Limerick (my county) playing Clare (worse people than cowboys fans) If any of y0u have not managed to see a game before, you should definitely try and get a stream going, I promise it would keep ye entertained in this Football-less Summer. Here is a quick promo video.
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Very cool. I’ve been to Ireland once, but didn’t get a chance to see a hurling match. Great country that I hope to visit again some day.
I went to Ireland many years ago w 2 buds .. we were doing that 80s travel Europe trip. So we say to each other “lets go to Ireland for 3 days, see the entire country and get outta the English speaking world”
well we were there for a week. loved every millisecond. met the prettiest girls funnest people. explored nonstop, ate the best food and more .. we literally jumped onto the boat as it was leaving with our rentacar still in idle fresh from the morning Heineken tour.
3 dudes literally cried we were so amazed and sad to leave.
have always dreamed of going back
Those are the best kinds of trips!
Hurling is the ultimate bar/pub sport. Last time in Ireland was there during the series, caught several matches in different counties, was the highlight of the trip. Won’t be the same watching it at home at 11am.
Hockey+Baseball+Football+Lacrosse = Win.
Nothing beats being there though, we won our first provincial championship in 16 years in 2013 and this was the pitch after the game.
What is this madness
Its the Irish national sport, but its all amateur.
(Chorus):
For ramblin’, for rovin’, for football’ or courtin’
For drinkin’ black porter as fast as you’d fill
In all your days rovin’ you’ll find none so jovial
As our Muskerry sportsman, the bould Thady Quill
At the great hurling match between Cork and Tipperary
(‘Twas played in the park on the banks of the Lee)
Our own darling lads were afraid of being beaten
So they sent for bold Thady to Ballinagree
He hurled the ball right and left in their faces
And showed the Tipperary men action and skill
If they touched on his lines he would certainly brain them
And the papers were full of the praise of Thade Quill
(Chorus)
The old wikipedia page for this song was hilarious.. full of unreliable information, invented stories, etc.. an amazing feat by someone I wished I had backed up..
https://youtu.be/13Iw_drPFAM
My continued verbal abuse of the “starting” options at RG aside, I’m excited to see this roster come together going into the season. As long as the injury bug stays away from already weak positions on the roster, I’m looking at a soft schedule that will allow some wins to get piled up. Outside of New England, every team the Eagles play has serious flaws or is massively overrated.
This is still Seattle’s conference to lose and Green Bay is really good, but I want the #3 seed, a home playoff win, and a hell of an effort on the road in the divisional round.
I haven’t seen either team’s schedule, but maybe the Eagles could sneak in the #2 seed?
Eagles could be #1 seed if Bradford works out, or 8-8 or worse if he does not. We have a deep talented roster to work with, defence should be solid enough to not cost you games unless you are playing elite QB play – which we are not really facing all season except Brady and maybe Romo.
Realistic goals / assessment, but ultimately I think you’ll be disappointed
I think Chip hinted to us in a recent presser that Jaylen Watkins will get a good look at safety.
If he plays well and earns the starting spot, and if Rowe plays solid at corner, then we can finally have a secondary that has more than just promise.
I think Maxwell will prove to be one of our better FA signings as a lot of balls came his way with Sherman opposite of him.
Like Sproles, I think Seattle’s D will suffer the same fate as the Saints O, when he was signed by the Eagles.
He was a key player in Seattle and will give Philly a solid starter at corner.
So happy Fletcher and Williams are gone, but I will miss the sconce references.
I would rather be talking about the stellar play of our secondary and believe this season could be huge for us on D.
Chip has upgraded, (on paper), the starters and even our depth on D, and most pundits didn’t think Chip was capable or even cared about building a defense.
I am curious to see how good this D can be.
Is it too much of a stretch to expect a top ten D this season?
Depends on a few things.
– How well do the new pieces fit at DB?
– Does Graham produce at the rate he should at OLB or does he fail to make those snaps productive as was the case after Cole got hurt last year?
– Does Marcus Smith become the 8 (+/- 2) sack player a first round draft pick should be in his 2nd year at OLB?
– Do Fletcher Cox and Bennie Logan continue to improve?
But a top 10 D could happen, I just don’t want it to be a McDermott “Top 12” where we’re all good on yards but an 30 year all-time horrible D in the red zone.
Yards aside I want;
– dead QBs
– take aways
-sacks on key 3rd downs
It would be nice to see what Chip could do with all those turn overs that Mc D managed to get. That was back when the Saints set the fashion of having a high powered offense and the defense couldn’t quite match so they sold out for turnovers. We followed suit in 2010.
All McD did was give up red zone TDs like the Prom King’s date gave it up on prom night. He was straight up bent over by every OC in the NFL.
The Seahawks have a shut down, put ‘im on an island, corner, the best safety in football and a pro-bowl safety next to him along with the most brilliant coach in the league when it comes to developing secondary talent and coming up with simple, elegant, coverages. Their secondary should be fine. The D as a whole won’t be at 2013 levels though, that team just had absurdly ridiculous depth in the front 7 and they used it for all it’s worth.
I think we could have a top 10 D as long as the other Safety and Corner spot shake out nicely. Our D-line might be the best in the business, ILB is loaded. The only thing we don’t have in the front 7 is a dominant pass-rusher that offenses have to game-plan for that really opens up the ways a D-coordinator can torment O-lines in other ways. While I’d say our over-all OLB pass rushing is ok, we have above-average (for their position) pass rushers everywhere else on the front-7.
Long story short, if we can develop even an few of the slew of young guys we brought in to play in the secondary into decent starters, there’s no reason this D shouldn’t thrive.
Looks like we’ll have more than enough talent on D to have a full referendum on Billy Davis as our DC.
Billy will prove to be our DC of the future… He has done a fantastic job with most of our young players and teaching the slop Defnse he took over in 2013 how to tackle..
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This city is crazy if they think Billy is going anywhere
We’ll see how the D does this year.
Bet this time next year it’s evident to everyone that we will be going into the 2016 season with a consensus top 10 defense after what they prove this upcoming year, but we’ll see….
Yeah, I think people are to harsh on him. He really has done a good job.
Transformed the front 7 into one that never played a 3-4 into one of the best in the league.
When he is given even a little bit of talent he has worked with it. Jenkins was very solid. Bradley sucked with STL and Allen sucked before Davis got here. Williams was the same type of player in Baltimore.
It also seems like our old secondary coach sorta sucked.
Yup yup!! When we signed a much needed stud corner from Legion of Boom, but classy jenkins is raving about the new secondry coach as the biggest addition, probably means last years DB coach Wasnt very good
I bet it is much more likely that Davis is the fall guy on the coaching staff especially if they don’t make the playoffs again or are 1 and done.
Don’t think Davis is terrible. Just very mediocre.
How do you feel about BG starting? I feel like he is definitely going to be more of a pass rushing threat then Cole, and I think with his talent he could get about 14 or 15 sacks.
I think with him, Cox, Curry, and Barwin with Kendricks and Alonso being effective blitzers you don’t really need that true number one pass rusher.
After all we did come 2nd in the league in sacks.
I agree with you, and he’s not bad against the run either, he isn’t a finesse pass rusher that will run himself out of a play, his signature move is the bull rush which you love because of the nasty style, but also because keeps him and his blocker in the play and really congests the pocket. My biggest question for him is if he can bring that aggression and physicality on a consistent basis. His role has mostly been to come in on pass downs, pin the ears back and just attack like a mad man. how effective can he be with the fatigue and mental demands of an every-down basis.
I have high hopes for him as an OLB, most of all in the pass rush department, he should be at least adequate with the pass rushers around him to supplement him. Connor Barwin is not a great pass rusher but he had great numbers, and that comes with the O-line having it’s hands full elsewhere and the QB’s eyes somewhere else (if you watch Connor’s sacks, a lot of them were just him being in a good position (discipline) to make a play and cleaning up, often a QB being flushed from the pocket by another pass rusher.
I think the biggest thing with BG this off season is getting into very good shape.
There have been reports in the past that state he wasn’t in the best shape.
When you look at him you can see it. Will be interesting to see if he shows up more lean.
If BG breaks 8 sacks I will be amazed.
He’s the weak link in the front 7.
If MSII can’t come on and suplement BG’s contributions we could struggle.
Why do you think this about him? Wasn’t aware you were so low on him.
Lacks burst to really threaten LT’s consistently. Therefore his primary move is the bull rush. That’s great as a change of pace, but without someone to get the tackle offbalance it’s not nearly as effective.
He’s solid at the point of attack, but he’s absolutely horseshit against pulling blockers. He doesn’t close down the point of attack and while he stalemates the blocker, he leaves a natural hole between him being kicked out and the downblocking OL. It’s infuriating.
He’s improved from dear baby jesus get him off the field to meh in pass coverage.
In otherwords he’s a stout defender but lacks any dynamism to truly excel as a full time starter. That’s fine for a 34 DE like Ceddy but for the primary pass rushing threat he just lacks any special qualities to consistently pressure the QB.
I agree 100% that bull rushing seems to be his only move that is worth noting.
If I remember correctly when he was a rookie he used to have a good burst, has his ACL tear really affected him that much or am I incorrect as saying that?
As I have stated recently think it’s VERY important for him to get into better shape, get a little bit lighter which may be able to restore a little bit of initial burst.
There have been rumors/reports that he previously was never in the best of shape and that he was a bit heavier/fatter then what the coaches wanted. If this truly is the case I hope he gets into better shape knowing he will see more snaps and therefore be more conditioned/lighter.
I thought with losing Cole one of the things we really needed was another pass rushing OLB. This position needs to be rotated, and the depth of it does really worry me. Smith could be that change of pace rusher which would greatly benefit BG. If he doesn’t improve considerably this year I think we could be in trouble the more I think about it.
I will say this though. From a pure pass rushing standpoint I do like Graham over Cole due to the point of his career Cole is in.
If Smith dramatically improves I think our predator position may be better at rushing the passer then last year, or is about even with it. If Smith doesn’t dramatically improve I think we could be in real trouble at that position and it will directly affect BG.
That being said, what is your view on Smith, and do you think he is capable of taking that much needed step this year? I think it may be possible to say that the coaches may be high on him this year considering the lack of attention paid to OLB.
I wanted the Eagles to take MSII at pick 22 last year.
I think he’s got the talent to be a truly do it all OLB. He’s already very good at the point of attack(really dont know where the narrative that he wasn’t began), and very good in coverage. The one area he needed to improve was with his pass rush.
His pass rush during preseason last year had become very “segmented” where he was either so focused on his hands and what they were doing that his feet and hips weren’t doing the right thing. Or vice versa. It’s a very common problem for rookie pass rushers (especially those asked to do more than fly off the edge like a bat out of hell 10 times a game ala Johnathan Newsome). Mack and Barr (the only two players I considered better OLB prospects last year than MSII) each had 4 sacks. Even the most physically gifted (Barr) or polished (Mack) still take time to acclimate. I was annoyed with the ILB experiment, that wasn’t a smart move, hopefully in the long run a deeper understanding of the D helps offset the half season or so of development of technique at OLB.
For me I see TC to BG as a lateral move at best. TC was slowing down, but he was a wily vet, with a bag full of tricks. He may not have gotten home all the time but he caused disruption. Oftentimes its the little things that go unnoticed. Does a player sell a pass rush game well so that the OL stay with him and allows the other man to go free, or is he selfish, and both players get picked up?
I mean I don’t think it’s a sound the alarm situation at OLB. Not ideal but you can still get creative with some blitz looks (33 stack in nickel with our 9000 ILBs). If BG doesn’t make an unexpected leap and MSII fails to progress it’s going to be a major need next offseason. But like I said you can go w/ a 33 stack in nickel this year and have Curry-Cox-Barwin up front, with Kendricks-Kiko-Hicks as ILB. Kiko and Kendricks are excellent blitzers and it gives you an opportunity to blood Hicks a bit.
As far as BG being in the “best shape of his life” I put literally zero stock into that crap. Why? Because we hear it literally every year:
2012:
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2012/6/9/3075206/buzzmeter-brandon-graham-is-off-the-charts
2013:
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Brandon-Graham-Embraces-Change-Again/45b5244c-c067-46c1-a5fc-7a7a3d701ef1
While I wouldn’t bet my right testicle they will be a top 10 D I think it’s pretty realistic.
Run D already in top 10.
Second in league in sacks.
Added a play maker in the middle with Alonso, and have really good depth there.
CB upgraded.
Young talented added in draft. Particularly secondary.
FS is good, but I am wait and see with SS. This is the NFL though, you are always going to have a few question marks on a team.
Really we need to think of the spot opposite Jenkins as the deep free safety. Yes they want to generally be able to mirror the defence and have both safeties drop into coverage, but generally last year they used Jenkins down covering the slot receiver and getting closer to the LOS.
Nate Allen played much more as the deep free safety, especially when we were in cover 3.
That was more due to Jenkins ability and Allen’s inability though.
I think if the S opposite of Jenkins is as versatile as Jenkins is then you will see both do that. I wouldn’t call the spot opposite Jenkins a deep FS spot untill we know the talents or deficiencies of the guy playing opposite of him.
When I say SS I’m saying it just for general football terms. I know there isn’t going to be what you would actually envision a SS to be playing opposite of him. It’s just how it’s listed on the depth chart.
Taking some “stabs” at division orders of finish and playoff teams:
AFC
East North South West
NE Balt Indy Den
Buff Cincy Hou
bleck, the AFC is so stale isn’t it? Specifically the AFC East the AFC North. Seems like it’s been the same story for a decade.
Meanwhile NFC East is always a 3 team dance that anyone can win. NFC North has the always-competent to great packers, but the Viking, Bears, and now Lions are always churning and taking steps at bat to be great. The NFC South was famous for never having consecutive division champs until last year, and before that was known for having division leaders and bottom feeders swapping every year. NFC West seems to rise and fall as a whole division and is now an absolute power house (except the 49ers by all rights should be done this year and be pretty bad). NFC homerism all the way.
For Rowe to start at CB, it would mean that either thurmond or Boykin will become a bench player (assume Nolan would remain in the dime roll)
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I have a hard time envisioning guys like wolff, watkins, Couplin or Rwynolds starting while boykin vs thurmond loser rides the bench.,,
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If Rowe can win the starting safety job, we could play thurmond and his freak long arms outside, boykin in Nickel, Nolan in Dime
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But hopefully some of the young safeties show serious improvement so we have options…of course Thurmond has to stay healthy for this to matter
I don’t think the smart money is on Rowe going to safety, but I get what you’re saying.
I still think a strong camp by several of those guys could spell then end of Mr. Boykins on this team sooner rather than later.
I would prefer NEVER, I mean NEVER starting a rookie at CB…
I hear you there, but if the guy earns the job he earns the job. I just would prefer to avoid switching him out from CB.
Fair… I certainly don’t want to bounce a rookie between positions… But chip made a projection based off of never yet even seei grown practice… Long ways to go before we decide who is playing what…. But once the season starts, I prefer leaving Rowe at one position,..
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3yrs safety experiwnce, 1yr corner experience, I’m playing the wait and see game, too soon to know how we will handle a rookie
I’m not saying its going to be Rowe, I just know it won’t be Boykin.
What do we really get by cutting him? I don’t see a reason for that.
no no no no cut. Traded for a 4th and a conditional 5th through 3rd based on performance / re-signing with that team.
I think we can get more for Boykins by trading him than we would with a compensatory for losing him.
I don’t think chip has made decisions on young players without seeing their 3rd or 4th season yet. These are young players who Are still growing
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from everything I gather, chip was ONLY trying to trade away playërs to get draft picks to make the Mariota trade work…once Mariota was out of the picture, my understanding is all the trade talk ended… I even heard we turned down a 4th round pick for Mykal Kendricks at the beginning of day 3 of the draft,
I would turn that down too. I think MK is worth more than a 4th, especially with his speed. CK would pull the trigger if he felt he got great value, and I don’t think a 4th in this year’s draft would have been good value considering their board (since they traded away their pick).
I’d think that with the logjam at CB, that if Boykin is on the bubble in terms of starting, we’re in a good position. I’d think he might get moved at that point and get some value there. I think it depends on Shepherd and the other guy we got in the 6th. If either of them look like they can play in this league, I would venture a guess that some guys might get traded if another team needs CB help.
Understand. I just feel as though that is something that would have happened already. Maybe there will be a TC or PS injury to another team and it could happen.
What makes me nervous about that though is if you trade him then the guy that would move to his spot would be Thurmond. I’m really high on Thurmond, but more then anyone else on the team I’m worried about him being injured. He misses games to nagging injuries or just constant injuries all over his body. Guys like this are normally the ones that miss games more then the ACL guys.
Also, I think he is a VERY good CB when healthy and I think it would be great for the team to have him competing and staying at outside CB. Rowe has only played CB for one year and rookie CB historically struggle more then other positions.
Chip is saying he’s starting Rowe at CB. Worried about rookie learning curve PLUS shift to learning Safety in your scenario? I’m thinking if Rowe moves to S, its in year two.
Chip is only saying he will start Rowe off at CB.., truth is, Rowe has way more safety experience then corner experience..
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Chip starts rookies off in one role, some don’t expand on that role TIL year two, but we have seen rookies like Jaylen who can handle it, play outside corner, slot and safety in practice as a rookie
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I don’t really care what chip says before having ever seen a rookie practice…
I totally understand the allure, mostly because we did zip in the offseason to address safety (other than cut Nate Allen). I just think they drafted Rowe to play CB.
Hypothetical gun to your head Johnny, who starts at Safety opposite Jenkins week 1?
Certainly plausible…….. Wolff
Hope the knee holds up.
Seperate issue: who you taking with the 3rd pick? I haven’t seen any of your Sixers posts in a while.
MUDIAY is the best Player in the draft.. I wouldn’t touch Russell in the top 4
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I assume it comes down to MUDIAY vs. Hezonja… Top PG vs, the top wing prospect
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If russell played in China, no one would be talking about him
wow. I keep hearing Russell is the better shooter (I didn’t watch too many Ohio State games this year). Plus he’s got size. I’m surprised you’re that down on him. I feel like he’s the presumptive pick at this point.
He won’t be a SIXER. Only thing he has over MUDIAY is a polished jump shot, but MUDIAY shooting mechanics have come a long way the past year in a half… Russell will always be the better sniper, but I’d bet on MUDIAY growing into a Tony PARKER level shooter
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Don’t listen to the russell crap, people like him because they saw him and they didn’t seeMudiay… IF. Writer didn’t see MUDIAY, he isnt qualified to tell fans russell Is the pick… Funny how none of the russell fans even know what happened the 4 times they played head to head, it wasn’t even close. MUDIAY outclassed him every single time..
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MUDIAY will be the best PGs to enter the NBA since Kyrie.. Best PG im the 2013,14,15 and 2016 draft clase
I can live with that. I heard Hinkie was the only GM to actually travel to China to watch Mudiay play.
How about this for symmetry? Two league rookies of the year with ties to S.S. Africa? Agholor and Mudiay.
And Embiid… Opening night Inteoducing the African connection, Mudiay to EMBIID…Congo to Cameroon,,.
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One of these Africans is bound to know “the Jimmy dolan shake n bake” lol…. Who knows that movie refrence? Lol “the air up there”-Kevin Bacon
Russell isnt a bad player, but people lost their damn minds if they think he will be the next Steph curry… Talk about. Pipe dream
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Russell will be a blend of MIke Conley and Kemba Walker, which isn’t a bad player, but def not worth the 3rd pick overall… we didntoo do all this tanking for Conley/Kemba type
A lot of the deeper research guys are tweeting out about Hezonja. I’d love to project a lineup of Hezonja / Saric / Nerlins / Embid + top flight free agent PG.
Make no mistake about it, Hezonja will be strongLy considered… You can draft him, kick your feet up and count on getting Gordon Hayward with zack Lavine athleticm…. I assume our pick comes down to MUDIAY vs. Hezonja vs. Possibly Porzingis
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Porzingis complicates the draft, 30 GMs will have 30 different Opinions of him,.. I could easily see him go as high as #2 or 3, an I can easily see him fall to #8 or 9… He is a major wildcard
Gordon Hayward with LaVine’s athleticism is an all-NBA level player. Maybe that’s a ceiling, but it’s not something you can count on.
Stylistically Speaking… But I will be surprised if he doesn’t eventually pass Hayward.. Certainly not a lock…
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At the very least you can count on Hezonja sitting on the wing, and draining threes making defenses pAy Everytime they double EMBIID in the post
The hard part about srafting Hezonja, is that next year is a poor PG class..
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The best is kentucky signee Isiah Briscoe 6’3, poor mans Kyrie williams type..
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The only other decent PGs next year is Marylands Romelo Trimble or Dunn from Providence…good PGs, but not the SPECIAL MUDIAY types that come around every 4years or so
Is Mudiay that special of a player though?
YES!! He will blow by his man and LIVE in the paint.. When he gets to the paimt he becomes a Tripple threat:
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1) he can keep it and dunk on the defenses head
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2) if help defender leaves Nerlens or EMBIID to stop MUDIAY, he will throw an easy lob to open Nerlens/EMBIID
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3) when he gets to the paimt, collapses the defense, kicks it out to open snipers on the wing..
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He has exceptional Vision, crisp pin point passing, elite ball handling, size, Explosive athleticism..
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Why would I want to watch layups blocked into Russell’s face like Evan Turner.. When I can have. Big strong PG who can casually take one lazy step and do a harold Miner dunk with ease..
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Philly will love MUDIAY, he is a pass first PG, prides himself on “setting the table” getting easy shots for his Bigs, but when you need him to score he can go bonkers and get to the hole at will….high Charecter, hard working.. Philly will love this kid. He puts CONSTANT PRESSURE on the heart of defenses
Two questions:
– Is he legitimately 19? Any official “document” from an African nation needs to be called into question as a fake. I don’t know if I can vibe on a birth certificate from Congo.
– How much of what he’s projected to do in the NBA is vs. nonsense competition in China?
No no no.. His age is legit. He has been in the USA almost all his life
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From someone who has sat and watched live pro basketball games in person overseas, the biggest misconception is russell played against better competition, what an American idealist, “ODOYLE rules” load of crap..
… 80% of the plauers russell played against would give their arm to be good enough to get paid to play In China, Italy, turkey, Spain after college.. MUDIAY not only played against professional men, but you can’t imagine the absurd level of contact allowed overseas.. It takes so much to get a foul called, you wouldn’t believe it if you saw it live,,, brandon Jennings only played 30 seconds a game in Rome.. He was to small, couldn’t handle the physicality…mMudiay put up 18, 6 amd 6 playing against men who were allowed ro close line and bet him up…NI love that experiwnce for a young PG, he was forced to have to be so strong with the ball, play thru more comtact then he will EVER experience
Funny for me to see american media praise russell when he played against mostly kids who will NEVER be good enough to play pro ball in China, who werent even allowed to touch russell without him getting a foul called
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no way russell is strong enough to thrive in China the way MUDIAY did.. No one would give Russell 1.2mil to play 12 games in China
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Russell is a very good player who can help a team, MUDIAY is truely one Of the special ones
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The ONLY thing I don’t love about MUDIAY is that Larry Brown loves him lol
In AAU they had to take russell of MUDIAY who was destroying him, put Russl on next years pick who will go in the #7-12 range (Malik Newman), and russell couldn’t stop him either
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Going into this year, MUDIAY was #2 player In his class, Russell Wasnt even top 15.. MUDIAY takes 1.2$ mil to play 12 games in China, and Russell blows up as the top pg in college lol… How convenient… If people got to see MUDIAY against college kids, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion
Don’t think the Chinese league is anywhere as physical as the Euro’s. Think with all the injuries this year you can pretty much dump his tape. 11 games pre injury is barely enough to even get used to to the league, team mates and style that coaching wants.
Think what matters is what you saw in highschool and at different national youth events.
I have watched a bit more of Russell, he is a better athlete than i thought (not as good as Mudiay), his court vision is excellent and he has a silky shot with quick release.
Think he can be a star in the NBA, and an additional thing he brings is he could realistically play the 2, which would open up more options down the line for the team.
I am going to be on board with any pick of Russell/Mudiay/Hezjona, and i trust Hinkie to pick the best for the team.
I have sat front row at iTalian league games before and China looks just as cray…hoe much contact they allow has been all MUDIAY talked about in interviews all year…
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Truth is out of all the kids, Hezonja has probably played against the best competition… Ohio st would get toyed with in the Spanish league, let alone Euroleague play..
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HINKIE has earned fans faith. He proved his youngplayer evaluation skills already. I’ll support his pick until proven otherwise, but I can’t possibly believe he will take russell over MUDIAY. I need to see that to believe it..
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Kind of funny how everyone treats this kid as if he is some unknown player from Africa, he has been dominating national high school tournaments since his Sophmore year, he is highly anticipating prospect who scouts have been waiting for fit years…mhe dominates in high school on a national schedule, AAU national schedule, all the best camps and showcase games, goes to China for 12 games as the #2 ranked player im the class, and now the lazy media acts like he is some mysterious unknown lol
Oh agree totally with Hezonja, Barca Basketball is no joke, very good and talented team, with significantly stronger roster and quality than any college team.
Mudiay has been the star at high school level – but just as being the no.1 recruit do not mean you will be a better Pro. With all youth evaluation you look to project physical tools over skills (since they are so raw and variable based off coaching level).
Now i am a big Mudiay fan (and Super Mario as well), i would rate all 3 almost the same at this point from the limited things that i have seen. The reality is that even more importantly than the NFL, the work outs and interviews are the most important things, since you are working with such raw product, and that is something we will not have access to. I trust Hinkie, Brown and staff to find the best fit for what they want to do and who they think in their system has the greatest chance to be a star.
I also trust Himkie… I hope he insists on Ruasell amf Mudiay working out head to head, but I’d be shocked if Russells agent allows that
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Mudiays agent already told the top 4 teams he will workout for them in June…mhinkie knows what he is doing, we are in great hands…
I like Russell more than you do — think his skill set is a great fit in the sixers’ system — but you make some fantastic points about Mudiay. It’s huge that he went over to China as an 18/19 year-old and prospered. Shows amazing maturity and poise. I love that we’ll likely be able to choose between Russell and Mudiay (and thrown in Hezonja), and I trust the front office to make a good decision.
The physicality in China is nothing like Europe, and it’s not that physical on the perimeter in either league. I think you’re over-selling Mudiay just a tad. He’s a good player, but he needs to develop a shot to be elite, and you don’t take “good” players with the 3rd pick.
Sorry THATS FALSE
The problem with Mudiay is that he really can’t shoot. You can’t drive by an NBA defender when he’s playing two steps off you and daring you to shoot a jumper. Hezonja is a transition scorer/3 point shooter who doesn’t have any “to the basket” game. He never draws fouls. I suspect that Hinkie will do something unexpected come draft day, so the Mudiay/Russell/Hezonja conversation probably isn’t relevant.
His jumper is far from broke.. Shooting mechanics have evolved nicely over the past two years. He is a.ready a better shooter then MCW and he is 4 years younger. His form is ahead of Tony Parker when he was MUDIAY
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Shooting is a teachable skill, our coaches managed to improve EVERYONEs shooting r except MCW.. Over rating polished shooting in drafts has led to so ,any draft mistakes
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We want the best player 3 yera from now, HInkie won’t give a shit about who isolished today….take a look at Mudiays recent shooting form in the CBAlayoffs, then tell me he has broke shooting mechanics that will result in a career poor shooter…
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His shooting will be fine twoyears from now.,. We rebuilt Noels form and taught him to shoot In one year, dount we have to worry about what our player develop,ent staff can develop his jumper Into
That’s a good point about shooting, but why didn’t MCW improve? Was it the shoulder surgery, or was he that uncoachable? Or is improved shooting an unreliable skill to depend on changing? Bad shooters make me nervous in the NBA. Mudiay was reputed to be bad, maybe he has gotten better.
Has the “doctor” that fouled up Wolff’s knee diagnosis committed seppuku yet?
Right!!! I assume wolff would be the leader to start, but that doesn’t really mean anything since I have no clue what Couplin, Watkins or reynolds will look like
Watkins or Rowe… Thurmond on the outside
That hypothetical gun has a better than 50% chance of ending any guesser at this point in time, possibly including coaches.
Exactly. He’s made it pretty clear that talking to the media about his plans is an inconvenience, and if they expect him to be honest about stuff that is not in the best interests of the team, they are foolish.
In other words, don’t believe what he says. Sucks for the media and certain types of fans, great for the team and fans who just want to see the Eagles win.
Rowe has far more experience at S then CB.
but they drafted him to be a corner. I’d be very surprised if he’s practicing as a S come OTAs.
I’m not sure if that’s 100% penciled in like many think. The CB competition opposite Maxwell is going to be very deep and tough. Thurmond when healthy is a very good CB.
The talent opposite Jenkins is not as deep or talented. I would think if they really like Watkins at S this may have been tried more last year.
Chip said we will try Rowe at CB first and see where it goes from there. That is not saying we drafted him to definitely play CB. If Thurmond and others impress at CB, and the options opposite of Jenkins don’t impress, wouldn’t the logical thing to do would be try try him at S where he has more experience anyway?
That’s getting your best players on the field.
Again I’m not so sure as to why people think Chips words meant he is definitely playing CB. I think there are circumstances that are outside of even Rowe’s control that could move him to S.
Boykin is scheduled to make $1.5M+ and Carroll is scheduled to make $2.9M. Unless one of them, most likely Carroll, takes a pay cut it’s doubtful both will be on the team. Unless Carroll wins a starting job, which I see as unlikely.
Yeah, I think it’s very possible Carroll may leave the team, especially if Shepard shows flashes.
Is Thurmond capable of playing outside corner or is he a pure slot guy? If so, maxwell and Thurmond outside with Boykin in the slot carrol as dime corner and Rowe at safety
Both, outside and inside,..Havent checked his arm measurements.but former team mate Maragos, raved about his playmaking and claims he has freaky long arms for someone his size…
32 3/4 in.
For more comparison
Zack Martin: 32 7/8 in.
You’re wasting Rowe by putting him at safety. That should be the backup plan; his value is maximized by playing corner. Why project him at safety just to get a marginal player like Thurmond into a premium position.
Don’t mind playing Rowe at corner at all, but if that’s the case I prefer him not starting September of his rookie season.. CB just isn’t a position for rookies, espcialy a kid with one year of corner experience
came looking for Mudiay info today. great stuff on him.
If you think Thurmond is a marginal player when healthy you are wrong. He is an upgrade over Williams by a decent amount.
There is a reason as to why he was a very early first round pick. If the kid is healthy he balls.
What should I correct first?
1. “he was a very early first round pick” Nope, he was selected in the 4th round by Seattle.
2. Thurmond has been in the league for five seasons and has nothing to show for it. Injuries have contributed, but at a certain point, it becomes clear a player just doesn’t have long-term starter potential.
3. I don’t know how you can state with any certainty that Thurmond is “an upgrade over Williams by a decent amount.” By the numbers, Williams has had a far superior career to Thurmond, and is projected by Seattle as their starting corner alongside Sherman.
4. “If the kid is healthy he balls” Thurmond has had the benefit of playing on a defense (Seattle) that has gotten the absolute most out of mid-round draft choices, and yet he’s been the exception. Seattle tried to move him to the outside in 2011, but he that didn’t work and he eventually ended up on injured reserve. He’s got a Legion of Boom-sized mouth with nothing to show for it on the field.
(recall the ridiculous boasts that he was the league’s best slot corner last year, or how his addition was going to transform the Giants secondary into an elite unit)
You are right in that he was a 4th round pick. I confused his draft status with someone else.
However I WHEN he is healthy he is a better player then Williams. I absolutely stick by that. Of course Williams has better numbers, because he has been healthy whereas Thurmond has been the opposite of that.
Look at his film, he is a better CB then Williams. When in the slot he did perform like one of the better slot CBs in the league BTW.
Thurmond can play outside – or he did at times for the Seahawks when they moved their bigger receivers inside on TE’s or big slots. (like they did to us when we played). He also played outside in college.
My ideal scenario is this, Thurmond outside, Boykin in slot, Rowe as the 4th CB who is developing well for next year.
Thurmond has real talent but has struggled to stay healthy, think he has a decent chance to come in and be our starter this year.
Thurmond on a corner blitz is a thing of beauty, unless you’re the QB.
Two words………. Dead Eli.
ESPN Cleveland saying there Is a chance Tashuna Gipson situation won’t be resolved and he becomes a free agent next year. They are allegedly using a previous MCL injury to lowball him….if he plans on hitting free agency, he will have to stay healthy this year. IF our safety situation isn’t resolved this year, This CB/Safety kid would be a great consolation prize for missing out on McCourty… Until he signs an extension this is a kid to keep an eye on… But hopefully one of our puppies steps up and grows to seize Longterm control of that starting safety spot… This is a HECKUVA opportunity to compete for a starting safety spot on what should be a quality defense.. We should see a fierce camp competition…but it would be Nice to have a potentially safety net like Tashiuan in free agency next year in case we are still playing musical chairs with that safety spot
I really hope we do not need him, because spending so many fa resources into the secondary is bad imo
The only way FakeWIPcaller could be better is if he became RealWIPcaller. Can you imagine him doing his bit on Cataldi and Co.? That would be hysterical.
Eagles reportedly hiring former Bears’ director of college scouting Marty Barrett as their West Coast area scout. Trey Brown is currently the West Coast area scout so he’s likely either being shifted to SW area scout to replace Obee or being promoted.
Wonder why he is taking a demotion despite some great first round drafting under him
Barrett or Brown? Barrett was fired by Chicago. That’s not necessarily a reflection on his performance. They hired a new GM after Phil Emery was fired earlier in the year and the new GM wanted to hire his own guy.
New Fan-Demonium article: Lessons For The Draft Class
http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Fan-Demonium-Lessons-For-The-Draft-Class/ebe6ed9c-1bc8-4739-b94e-40c184ca31a9
Great link, thanks. That guy Lawlor is a pretty good writer. The Spads interview with Lane Johnson is awesome. I’m predicitng LJ becomes a fan favorite.
Who the $#%^ is Duke Manyweather? Is there really somebody by that name?! How do we know if he knows what he’s talking about or if he has any credibility?
He’s far from alone in that analysis.
Definitely more bodies to plug at the positions but I was hoping the Eagles would only have one real question in the secondary instead of two going into training camp.
Wish this secondary though had a few more playmakers (ability to force turnovers) though too. Only had 12 INTs last year which was tied for t-21 with 3 other teams.
Jenkins isn’t a playmarker and I doubt whoever else they start at S will be. Maxwell isn’t either dating back to his time at Clemson. Rowe/Thurmond don’t have strong reps either as playmakers.
Basically Boykins it is it in the secondary. Hoping he has a rebound year and is able to snag at least 3 INTs in the slot this year. If not, it is pretty hard to see this team exceeding the 12 INTs they had last year on defense.
Our DBs dropped a lot of pics last year… hopefully that changes this year. I wouldn’t count Jenkins out just, he made some really good breaks on the ball last year. Although I’ll settle for a secondary that wont give up 3rd and long all day
Question marks in August are a lot more of a concern than they are now. Lots of healthy competition.
So many factors in “playmaker”. Put a bunch of athletic guys out there with solid technique and pressure on the qb, turnovers will come. Play with a few leads and you get even more.
I agree that Wolff and Watkins are the front runners for the S spot…. I’m hoping Prosinki can make some noise. The kid can run fast(4.3, I’ve read) and he can tackle. Let’s see if he can cover. My favorite is still to win the Watkins job
Put a gun to my head and Id go with wolff and watkins as the front runners too… But there is no frontrunner and no fan is qualified to speak on the safety situation,, im sure we have a good idea about some of the safety options, but no one has any clue about what all these safeties will look like In camp
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Even if I have a good grasp on Wolffs game and I like him, how can I call him a front runner when he is competing with 3 or 4 safeties that I have no idea what level they are at right now
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Unless we have a good understanding about where each safety is at In his development right now, then no one has the info Needd to offer any worthwhile opinion….meveryone is entitled to an opinion, but sometimes we just don’t have enough info to be able to offer a worthwhile oppinion,,, nothing to do but play the wait and see game with that safety spot…
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Hoping Wolff wins because he is the most Talemted of the group, but I have no clue what his game looks like these days, I have no clue about Couplin, Biggers, Prainski,or Reynolda… How can I call anyone a front runner when I don’t know what 4 other contenders bring to the table this summer…
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Nothing to do but play the wait and see game in terms of that vacant safety spot
Well of course as fans we will never truly “know” what coaches see in a particular player or want at said position. But” real fans” who love/hate their team year long and not just when they become super bowl favorites (SEA fans), aren’t we allowed our opinions, gripes, cheers and jeers? Otherwise what’s the point of a discussion board?
Sure but sometimes we just don’t have enough pieces of the possible
I’ve reversed my thinking. I’ve been saying Wolff but I’m switching it to Watkins only because of our scheme. I think if this were still the Reid days Wolff would be the starter. Both players are very different from each other.
I think it will be Watkins really only due to his coverage ability. He is better in coverage then Wolff, particularly the deep ball probably which plagued us last year.
Wolff is more of the aggressive athlete that can fly around, but again his coverage isn’t as strong as Watkins.
I trust Watkins going 1v1 on the WR or TE then I do Wolff, and I trust him deep more then I do Wolff.
If Rowe goes to S I think he wins it, but again that’s IF he goes to S.
Agreed. Also don’t sleep on Watkins. Kid ran a 4.41 on a bad foot; if he can play that fast he should be able to make the plays Nate Allen was always a step late to making
Wasn’t aware that he ran a 4.41.
The thing that worries me the most regarding him at S is his tackling ability. I do think it’s an added benefit that S isn’t completely new to him though. He did play some S in college, and while it wasn’t a whole lot some experience at a position can dramatically reduce the learning curve compared to no experience.
The more I think about it, the less I like the offseason changes in the secondary. It really seems like throwing goopy stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. I doubt Cary Williams will be missed, but we lost two other starters and are replacing them with rookies and backups. And as much as people hate Allen and Fletcher, they were professional football players, each had managed to stake a claim to be one of the 64 best players in the world at his position (sloppy math, of course, but bear with me), while those replacing them–had not.
Sure, it’s possible we replace Williams, Fletcher, and Allen and it’s all an upgrade and our secondary all of a sudden is good. It’s also possible all the damaged goods we brought onto the team mends itself and plays great through the season. Probably… probably wouldn’t bet on it, though.
Not all the damaged goods needs to play 16 healthy games for the team to significantly improve. Heck, just Bradford doing that should be a noticeable improvement. It’s also true that previously healthy players go down every year, just part of the game. That’s where having extra “goopy stuff” comes in handy. Most coaches want depth and competition. There are advantages to relying on a system over a few key players, esp in a sport where injuries are so common.
I’ve just realized what Chip is doing. He’s been infected with Hinkies and this is part of his plan to tank the season.*
He knows Bradford may not start, and definitely won’t last. He knows he’s missing two starters in the secondary and has only rookies to throw at the position. He knows they’ll probably have two weak links on the OL, and that Murray will get dinged at some point.
It’ll be hard to get 8 wins out of this, let alone 10!
*tongue in cheek… a little.
A lot. 😉
Of course it looks negative when you don’t even mention that we signed Maxwell, or that we got Rowe in the draft, or that Carroll was a very solid player for MIA, or that when Thurmond is healthy he rates as a +4.8 on PFF and QBs only have a 67 rating against him, or we acquired a very respected DB coach who has pumped out some very good talent in Denver.
Of course it’s going to be negative when you only mention the negative.
They say pessimists are usually right, optimists are usually happy.
Maxwell rates out as equivalent to Cary Williams according to Football Outsiders charting. The only thing I know about Carrol and Thurmond is their teams were willing to let them go. As far as Rowe, rookies are rookies–relying on them is naive. During the “Dream Team”, we also had a “Dream Team” of coaches.
What our secondary has going for it what all bad teams have–hope. It is possible 2 unproven players manage to step up their performance and man the empty positions, and that Maxwell, after his huge contract, performs better than in a contract year. All I said is, I wouldn’t bet on it.
Would you?
If being a pessimism means your always right then that means there would never be any good outcomes. You can put a negative spin on everything. That statement is just not true.
As far as the Williams comment you can just watch tape of him and easily deduct that he is a far superior CB then Williams. There is a reason as to why Seattle did try really hard to retain him. Chip is smart, I highly doubt after watching hours of tape in him he would release Williams then spend that kind of money on Maxwell.
I’m not relying on Rowe but he is skilled and his presence makes the group stronger. Every year teams let good football players go. Every single year that happens. So saying they weren’t retained by their respective teams means they are not good is just ridiculous. Again I think before you can even say you think our secondary hasn’t improved you should watch tape and gather real information on the players added before you
Well, I think you’re taking things a little extreme… the things I wrote are based on defensible logic, you just don’t agree with them. I also offered up some “actual” facts, you just don’t like them. Free agents usually cost too much and rarely work out as planned. Rookies are a crapshoot. Switching position coaches rarely takes teams to the next level. Not being an expert on cornerback play, I am not going to cite the “eye test” as a thing…and I know how often the “eye test” is wrong, wrong, wrong. That’s why we have analytics, to counterbalance our human failings.
Yes, our great coaches wanted these new players, but great coaches on other teams ( for example, the ones in Seattle, they know a little about CB play), let their players go.
Notice that I didn’t say “never” or “always” as you wrote in your post–exaggerating. It really is okay that you are bullish on the D and I am reserved. I think there are way too many variables to even guess where they are going to end up. But Footballoutsiders had our secondary ranked 18th to finish the year… I’ll take the under. What about you?
It’s not the fact that I don’t like them, it’s the fact they are wrong. I also think calling a player or success or not while not watching him play isn’t smart.
Also I think some of your “defensible logic” is wrong because the logic behind it is wrong. The whole they didn’t retain them thing so they may not be good. Maybe that would carry more merit if SEA DIDNT try to retain him. The fact is they like him ALOT and did try very hard to retain him. They couldn’t afford to considering the contracts they have coming up. Therefore they didn’t just let him go like you say, they couldn’t afford to keep him.
The eye test as you call it is a quick look. What I am saying is if you actually watch good amount of tape on him you will see he is very good. That’s just not an eye test. So yes, like anyone else that has watched the tape with him against other NFL talent he is good. Consider the fact that Seattle’s D also puts more pressure on their CBs then most D’s and I was more impressed. Yes you can say the he played with Sherman, Kam, and Thomas thing. If anyone knew Seattle’s scheme they wouldn’t be saying that bullshit. Did you know there are some in Seattle that think he is better then Sherman?
I think by football outsiders saying we are 18th is just stupid considering they don’t know who our starters are.
If you feel like I’m being bullish then sorry. I just refuse to accept bad reasoning.
Don’t concentrate too much on the Maxwell signing. He was a starter and is replacing a starter. Most likely, he will at least be a decent starter. You seem to think he’ll be All-Star caliber. Well, he’s definitely being paid by it (see Winner’s Curse).
The main problem is not swapping two proven players, Williams and Maxwell, but rather that we are replacing two starters with unproven players, rookies and guys who’ve played in limited action and had never managed to win starting positions on other teams, and were let go by those teams. The odds of two unproven guys stepping up to be competent starters is low.
Thus, assuming Maxwell plays as well or better than Williams, but there are two liabilities at the other secondary positions, the secondary could decline as a whole.
Of course, if you assume Maxwell is the second coming of Darrelle Revis, that Rowe turns into Patrick Peterson II, that one of the other players learns how to play safety, then sure, we’ll be great!
But really, what is more likely?
The Football Outsiders ranking has nothing to do with name recognition, they have people who chart every single play, notebook in hand, and grade them according to situation (down/distance). The ranking is based on performance against the pass.
I’m going to reprint this on the main thread in case anyone else is interested.