Moving On Up?
Posted: April 5th, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 232 Comments »Another day, another report about the Eagles and a QB prospect.
Football analyst Lance Zierlein went on 97.5 and talked about the Eagles and Carson Wentz. Tim McManus has the details.
“Make no mistake about it, I still think the Eagles first and foremost are trying to find a way to get Carson Wentz. I know Doug Pederson loves him,” he said. “I know that from people behind the scenes, in the know. That’s who he wants and that’s who he likes. It’s just going to be tough — to move up that far is going to be a challenge.”
Though not necessarily impossible. Zierlein believes that Tennessee could be convinced to move out of the No. 1 slot. Similarly, he thinks Cleveland could also be swayed “if someone is willing to give up an RGIII deal.” (Washington surrendered the No. 6 overall pick, two additional first rounders and a second rounder to the Rams to move up four slots in the 2012 draft for Robert Griffin.)
“I think one or two could be for sale. For the first time in quite a while I do think there is at least a 50-50 chance that No. 1 or No. 2 is a potential trade-out spot,” said Zierlein. “Usually we talk about it a lot, it doesn’t happen, but I think it could happen this year because of the amount of excitement that Carson Wentz is generating in this draft.”
Let’s start by talking about Zierlein. His father is an NFL O-line coach so he has lots of connections and knows what he is talking about. Lance writes draft profiles for NFL.com. He does a lot of research and gets his share of inside scoops. I completely believe that he’s heard the Eagles like Wentz. I’ve thought for a few weeks that Wentz could be the guy that Pederson really covets.
Trading up for Wentz is where things get complicated.
If he was an Andrew Luck type of prospect, multiple teams would be fighting to get the top pick. Wentz isn’t that good and there are some legit questions with him. The Eagles may still covet him, but they simply might have a lower breaking point when it comes to moving up.
Washington went all out to get RGIII because they felt they had to go get him. The Eagles “want” Wentz. That’s different than going all out. Would the Titans be willing to trade out of No. 1 without a king’s ransom? I think they realize their roster has a lot of holes and one player isn’t going to make them a contender. My guess is that they would take a reasonable offer.
What would that be? Howie Roseman would have to get creative with current and future picks to move up. I don’t know the exact combination, but not cheap, obviously. That said, there will be no mega-packages like the Rams got in the RGIII deal. This is a different situation.
Roseman has traded up in the 1st round before. He knows how to work the phones. He has a good sense of what fair value is. If the Eagles make a move, I think it will make sense from a cost standpoint. Just understand that QBs don’t come cheap.
If Roseman and Pederson truly believe Wentz is a guy they can build the franchise around, go get him. I prefer Goff, but do think Wentz is really talented and has a bright future. I recently wrote about the Eagles and Wentz.
It would initially kill me to see the Eagles pool a bunch of resources to move up for Wentz, a player who isn’t likely to contribute for a year or two. But that’s the beauty of the draft. This is all about the long game. How smart were the Packers to draft Aaron Rodgers in 2005? How smart were the Eagles to draft Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown when they already had the best secondary in football?
The draft is a mixture of the present and the future.
The Eagles would be taking a risk in moving up for Wentz, but if the move pans out even to a reasonable degree, the Eagles would be adding a talented player at the most valuable position in all of sports. I’m not sure how you quantify that.
For all this to make sense, the Eagles have to really believe in Wentz. History is filled with teams who talked themselves into QBs. I think Buffalo did that with E.J. Manuel back in 2013. I think the Titans did that with Jake Locker and the Vikings with Christian Ponder back in 2011. Those are just some recent 1st round examples.
I think Wentz is better than those players. I don’t think the Eagles would be reaching at all on Wentz if he fell to pick 8. The question is how steep a price do you pay to go get him. That’s where things are tricky because you aren’t just risking a pick. All draft picks can fail. When you invest several resources in a move up, the risk is that much more costly and has to be examined all the more closely.
The draft is still several weeks away so be ready for more rumors, reports and speculation.
*****
Wanna meet The Wiz?
Interesting guy who is keeping it real. Someone asked about him winning a job and then possibly getting an extension during the season. Wiz was like “let’s not get ahead of ourselves”. All players are a little delusional, but he seemed to understand that he’s here to compete.
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[…] Tommy Lawlor Another day, another report about the Eagles and a QB prospect. Football analyst Lance Zierlein […]
Nova! The shot gets better the more I watch it.
what a game!!
i wouldnt be mad at trading up for wentz, but i feel like i could be mad if they traded up for goff
howie has done pretty well in FA there really inst one position we need this year, next year is different tho
What if they only had to trade up a few spots for Goff and didn’t give up very much?
id guess id be ok with it. still would be less thrilled with goff than wentz.
Hoping Goff becomes a cowboy or a Niner….
While on paper, we have a solid starting lineup in place, we still have so much work that needs to be done building this roster. Even if we don’t trade half our picks for a QB, it’s going to take at least two drafts to build this roster up to the level we need it to be… So this notion that our roster is so set, that we can just invest 3 or 4 premium picks trading up for a player is a load of crap
meh.. i mean building a roster is never done. its a never ending process.
Trade Tennessee Jason Peters and #8 and some later round picks. They can draft Stanley and have two OTs ready to go now, increasing the chances Mariota will be alive in 2 years. And the Eagles could just let Bradford and Daniels get the shit beat out of them for a year or two until they can find another tackle.
That is a deal I would be happy to make, though I’d hate to lose Peters. Obviously we’d move Lane over to the left side, but who mans the right? Are there any 3rd round tackles that could start right away? Can our O-line handle losing another starter?
Winston Justice is a free agent.
Osi Umenyora would come out of retirement just to own him twice a year.
I seen more realistic trades in a madden video game
If we move up you can probably kiss that 3rd rounder goodbye…
Maybe 6 years ago. No one’s stoopid enough to make that trade for a 34 year old OT.
A nice prop bet for this year would be “which one starts more games, Tony Romo or Jason Peters?” As negative as I am about Romo’s ability to last a season at this point, I think I’d take Romo on that bet. 34 year old 300 + pounders generally break down sooner rather than later.
I’d take the bet if it’s starts, but if it’s minutes played, I’d go with Romo. Peters will miss significant portions of the games he starts.
Peters is in great shape for his age. Without the stupid Chip Kelly system running him ragged he should be fine this year.
Trade Peters to Dallas and the bet becomes more interesting.
And we get #1? I’d do this deal all day and three times on Sunday.
This trading up to 1 stuff is really upsetting, if there’s any truth to it.
I’m sorry but I just don’t believe Carson Wentz is worth anything close to that.
Pederson is the head coach now, so we kind of have to live or die by his judgement on that. With Reich, they have a lot of experience watching great NFL quarterbacks from the sidelines so hopefully that works out.
But it’s not like Howie is going to be making a decision on a QB and foisting him on the new coach.
We don’t need another 3 years of “a coach needs to get his QB before you can judge him”. Let Pederson choose his QB and if he sucks, Pederson gets fired.
So if wentz sucks does Howie get fired? Hard for me to believe you give a first year coach free reign on such a high pick but you make a good point. If you don’t take wentz and he’s good them you have to live with the earl Thomas what ifs .
No, Howie Roseman will outlive us all.
If Wentz sucks, can we fire all the fans Clamoring for us to trade our draft soul for a QB most haven’t seen play a single game?
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Wish all the people who wasted every single day last year talking about trading from 20 to #2 had been fired
You only live with those what-ifs if Wentz was on the board with your pick and you passed. The cost of moving up might have been prohibitive. So unless the terms of a possible deal were 100% known afterwards and it was not very expensive, I think people would always assume the cost was too high. We don’t look back at last year’s draft and think about “what if Mariota”.
There is no way Roseman would pick a QB that Pederson does not want, but I’m also pretty sure that Roseman will not throw his own level of valuation (based on scouts I’m sure) out the window to go get someone that Pederson likes. That is a way to get fired, if the player turns out to suck. Pederson’s input is only part of the valuation, and how much Roseman is willing to sacrifice to move up.
With you bringing up Reich that got me thinking about the past few weeks. It seems it was only Howie, Doug and Lurie working out and meeting the QB prospects. Wouldn’t you think bringing along Reich and DeFilippo would make sense for their input?
Pederson didn’t even Attend Wentzs pro day. But I would assume he at least sent the OC or QB coach to his pro day….. Just speculating
No Reich was there, there were pictures posted of them at dinner. Maybe he was back in coach on the plane.
Thx, I didn’t see that.
No, neither him or Goff are worth it. Stick with BPA at 8 or trade back for a 2nd and a mid round pick if possible.
Worth what, exactly? And how would you know? You don’t have a chance of winning the lottery unless you buy a ticket.
And FFS, stop with the trade back talk. You don’t trade up to trade back. You’re not getting that second rounder back, so get over it. I don’t understand why everyone values a second over a first.
I consider trading back a sound option. Depends on the board and the offer. If the top 2 guys on your board are Zeke and Buckner, maybe you consider if another team covets one of them enough to jump up a spot or three.
Early 2nd round picks are arguably better than 1sts in some respects.
To move from 8 to where you can get those two would be an astronomical price. Possibly along the lines of what Washington gave up for RG3. That price may fluctuate but doubtful. I don’t see the payoff. But if the front office or Pederson want to hang there hat on one those two then they’ll pay it. I think it is too risky. Pick best BPA at 8.
you’re right, trading back after already trading up is an unlikely scenario but if the guy you want isn’t there then field calls and see what you can get FFS!!!!
But Howie already said there were ten guys the considered “Elite” or “Want” so they’ll get the guy they want regardless if in fact that is true.
Yeah , wentz is totally not worth it
Thank god I’m not the Eagles GM.
Let’s all not forget the fact that it’s not just Howie, Doug, Frank an the rest of the coaching staff evaluating talent. That’s why every team has a crew of scouts, whose only job is to KNOW who is worth what.
Exactamundo. It doesn’t look like a good bet from where I’m sitting.
Here’s the truth… the Titans would like to know what they can get for #1 overall.
不错，不错，看看了！
2016 1st n 3rd 2017 1st is how much it would take to move up from 8 to 1 on the value chart.
I would do that for a chance at a franchise QB.
“I would do that for a chance at a franchise QB.”
I would do that for a chance to draft a LOCK franchise QB.
That pick absolutely have zero risk to it if I’m pushing in that many chips into the pile.
Sadly the lock franchise QB does not exist.
Then I can’t give up an RG3 level of compensation to move up that far. The massive level of risk is far outstripping the potential reward in that case.
Not sure we see that kind of compensation soon
I hope not
Then you probably ARENT going to see us get from #8 to #1
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You aren’t just paying for the Titans to move down 7 spots, you have to pay them to move into a lessor Teir of prospects… I would think it would cost less if we are asking the Titans to trade back and still end up with one of the top guys like Jack, Tunsil Ramsey or BUckner… But moving down to #8 could cost them a chance to take one of the top guys, which would probably increase the compensation it would cost us
Speculation that it would take our first and both 3rds. That’s not RG3 level but I still probably don’t do it.
To only come out of the first 3 rounds with one of these QBs is like my nightmare… I can’t even imagine what it would feel like to see us trade a RG3 type package of picks.
No it doesn’t, but some prospects provide better odds than others.
How do you know?
Because he hasn’t been there yet?
Jake Locker was a chance at a franchise QB. Heck, Hackenberg would be a “chance” at a franchise QB. So is Bradford, to be honest. The question is just how good that “chance” is. It’s only worth moving up that much if it’s a near-lock chance. Otherwise, you’ll need that future #1 for another crack at a QB.
Well said… Drives me crazy when people talk about the draft in terms of positional generalizations… The draft ISNT about drafting positions, it’s about drafting Playërs, and playërs are human beings, and every human being is unique…. I wouldn’t ignore theories of positional value alltogether, that would be a mistake, but being a slave to positional value is just as big of a mistake,.
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“Don’t take a RB, they can only play 8 years instead of 10″… If our GM is drafting playërs factoring in what happens 10 years from now, than our GM is a moron with an inflated sense of Job Security..
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Draft a LT, they can play 10 years”… Blah blah blah….. Im sure the Jaguars said something similar in their draft room when they were ready to spend the #2 pick on Luke Joekel a valuable LT who could play a decade that was considered one of the very most CANT MISS prospects in the 2013 draft… How did that work out for the Jags? A few years later and the Jags may not even pick up the 5th year option on his “CANT MISS” rookie prospect..
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Every Human is unique. We should be aware of past history and theories about positional value, but it’s a mistake to be a slave to it. And its a mistake to talk about these unique Human beings in terms of what positipn they play… Carson Wemtz has nothing to do with all the great QBs who went on to validate their top selections, and he has nothing to do with an epic bust like RG3….. Nothing to do but throroughly evaluate each individual and take The MAN, not the Position that you trust the most to go on and validate the selection….. The ONLY time positipns and Needs should factor into this equation is to break a tie between two kids with the same grade…. We employ countless people to spend months and Months puttimg together these evaluations. Once the draft board is set, their hard part is done…. From there you have to trust all the work we did, trust our board, And simply take the kid sitting at the top of our board when it’s our turn to pick.
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Majority of the people who want to trade up for a QB just want a QB, most DONT absolutely LOVE the QB prospect in question. Most of these people would be rooting for us to trade up for a QB, no matter who the top ranked QB is,…putting way too much value in the position, when the value should be placed on the Unique human beings evaluation
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Proof of that is all the fans and media TaLiking about the need to trade up for a QB they haven’t even seen play 3 entire games..
In a hot second I would do that deal. And to Media Mike… There is no such thing as a LOCK. You take a chance on any selection. Your franchise QB could get struck by lightening on the practice field. There is risk in any pick. You need to take risk for a chance to succeed.
Or you could be the Rams and your “franchise QB” turns out to be Sam Bradford
I imagine (and hope) that teams do long term projections before making those sorts of deals. That means anticipating who’s coming out next year and projected needs. The Eagles are likely going to need a blue chip Tackle and pass rusher/interior lineman if the take a QB early this year.
Those are the players you’d like to have first round resources for. In my opinion, long term scouting should play a role in any deal for future picks.
That’s not even taking the slew of “mid-round” needs the team is looking at. Some of these will be addressed this year but still there’s: RB, interior o-line, Celek replacement (next draft maybe), and interior d-line number 2.
I have no opinion on whether the team SHOULD trade future resource for a current prospect, I just hope they look at some these things when making the decision.
I don’t believe THATS even close enough to get the Titans to do that deal, For starts, while the Titans want to trade back, I doubt they have any interest in trading out of the top 5…. And to get them to move all the way to #8, I imagine next years first and a third won’t even be close to enough compensation for the Titans..
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Think ideally. The Titans would like to get a pick for moving back a spot or two and still end up with Jaylen Ramsey… Whether their ideal scenario can become reality or not, is the question
“I don’t think the Eagles would be reaching at all on Wentz if he fell to pick 8. The question is how steep a price do you pay to go get him.”
I can’t justify going up any higher than 5th given the point chart.
Isn’t that a contradiction? “Reach at 8” and “how steep to move up”? If there’s a 1% chance(taken from Superman movie) that Wentz can fall – why would you consider “paying a price” to move to get him?
Wentz is falling to #8? In what dreamland is that happening?
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Think Shefters claim this morning that both QBs will be picked in the top 3 has more of a chance of happening than Wentz falling to #8
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I can’t help to laugh every time some media member claims that he knows what the Eagles want
so that would push Jack to us?
Not neccessarily,,,, WOULDNT two QBs drafted in the top 3 have the same effect as cleveland taking a QB and the Niners taking the 2nd QB at #7?
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Goff and Wemtz are already assumed to be in the top 7… To have a chance at Jack, we need someone unexpected to move into the top 7 like Zeke, Hargreaves, Stanley, Rankins or whoever
Might make another team take Lynch before us, especially if a QB-needy team behind us trades up in front. Also, I’m not sure that both QBs were assumed to be taken before #8 until recently.
This is the season of disinformation… the more pressure you pile on a pick, maybe another team does something stupid to move up. If you’re lucky, that team is one in your division 😉 Most teams see through most of this media stuff though — they probably have a better idea on how other teams actually value a pick.
I’ll dance a jig if Wentz, goff and Lynch all go before us
Really? ?
I still think the top 2 QB are going 2 and 4 and Lynch could go 7. If that happens I could see Jack or Bosa dropping to the Eagles, but that assumes someone takes Elliott or Buckner.
Oh Man, I sure as hell am rooting for you to be right, that would be awesome for us. it’s certainly plausible. Wouldn’t be the first time that the top 2 or 3 Qbs get overvalued,,,Shefter seems to think two will end up going top 3. San Fran is hard to predict, but it wouldn’t shock me if they wanted a QB bad enough to take Lynch at #7… No idea how likely this is, but it’s certainly plausible….to be able to stay put at #8 and still get Jack, what more could I ask for? That would be amazing for me..
I’m not sure CLE goes QB now they signed RGme. His ego is so fragile, drafting a QB, especially at #2, would ruin him before he even gets on the field.
I kind of agree. In Cleveland, how can you get excited about another top QB pick? They’d be better off picking a different position and taking a later round QB to groom behind RGIII
Not sure I agree. Sign Bradford to 2 years and draft a QB? (that’s not any different) IF RG3 was a guarantee to do well — then I’d agree. RG3 is a bigger question mark than Bradford. RG3 can be a bridge while a young QB is groomed.
According to reports from people close to me, I really like a Porsche. Furthermore, I have been seen on a road trip putting a new Porsche thru its paces. Several sources have me talking to several different banks about what it would take for me to acquire the funds to do so. This all fits with a previous attachment to Sunbeam Alpines earlier in my career.
But later this month, after literally kicking the tires on this dream, reality will sink-in and I will acquire the more sensible choice and value proposition of a Buick coming- off lease. It will serve me well and will not require that the future be mortgaged.
This, of course, will not stop similar, far-fetched rumors from arising next year at this time from people close to me; I guess at this time of year they have nothing better to do with their time.
Basically…
SSDY. Can’t wait for this stuff to stop. Went through this crap last year…
Don’t turn on the radio, every year some donkey talks about including Cox in a trade up for some QB prospect they Barely know anything about..
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News flash: while Cox is a GREAT PLAYER, his contractual demands will lower his trade value significantly, so Cox probably isn’t the super valuable trade chip people think he is… Not to mention Howie would suffer a Mousollini type fate hanging upside down from city hall if he dares trade cox for a prospect.
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If all we heard about last year was this absurd notion that we could trade from #20 to #2, then we have no chance of the media not fixating on a QB while we are sitting at #8… I guess if they just talk about this every single yeàr, sooner or later they will be proven right
Trying to gain a broader perspective on this subject….
Really hard to believe that having two former NFL backup QB’s as #1& #2 men on the staff, and a supposed guru as the QB coach (who incidentally along with the OC, appears like they both made a lateral career move to get their position) HAVE to have one of the top two QB’s and pay the price (for years possibly).
I think their cumulative egos are more in line with seeking a diamond (or two with all those mid rounders) in the rough and bet on their ability to coach up WCO skillsets in low risk/high reward projects.
Now trading up for a difference maker on D, I could get behind.
JAYLENNNNNNNNNNN!!!!
This gets back to the whole nature vs nurture concept. If Donny was taken by the Browns in 1999, would Couch have succeeded with Andy as head coach? Many would argue yes, including me.
It would seems a little odd that with his skill set and apparent mental makeup (e.g., study habits, leadership qualities, etc.), that these guys would not be foaming at the mouth to coach Sam, but instead be looking to draft an unknown commodity and give up the farm in the process.
Well said…. This isn’t the first time Roseman has been in charge and there isn’t much precedent that points to him believing in trading 3 or 4 top 100 picks to go get a prospect. Fingers crossed, this won’t be the year he decides to start doing dumb dan Snyder type crap
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No matter how much we think we love a kid and vuew him as a cant miss, this isn’t an exact science, I prefer the strategy of casting a wide net, drafting 10 or 11 players, hoping that 4 or 5 end up being the real deal. Rather than Gamble three or four top 100 picks on a prospect
“there isn’t much precedent that points to him [Roseman] believing in trading 3 or 4 top 100 picks to go get a prospect”
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Of course there isn’t.
The reason couldn’t be more obvious.
How many times in the past 50 years — since the common draft began in 1966 — has any team moved from outside the Top 5 to the top of the top of the draft (1st through 3rd) using just draft picks?
Answer: 7 times . . . in 50 years.
Anyone looking for “precedent” is wasting their time.
http://i.imgur.com/pb27baO.jpg
classic, measured response as usual AC
Don’t tell him — Tell Tim McManus who thinks its going to happen because he talked to someone…
Glad we didn’t waste our time
because they might be out of a job in a few years because their “coaching up” didnt quite work out. QB is the beast that turns all these logical scenarios on their face
If we had the 5th pick maybe then we wouldn’t have to give the Titans a mega deal to trade up, but I doubt the Titans want to move all the way down to #8, so yes from #8 it would probably take a Mega deal to move up to #1. When the Titans say they want to trade out of #1, I would assume they wouldn’t want to trade down further than #5… To get them to pass on a chance to draft the top guys like Tunsil, Ramsey or Jack IMO it will cost way more than people seem to think.
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Basically, until we have a QB that media deems to be a “franchise QB”, every single yeàr, in every single draft the Eagles draft coverage will be Hijacked by these lazy, trade up for a QB pipe Dreams…. Lol if we spent all last year taling about this absurd notion that we could move from #20 to #2, I guess I can’t be surprised hearing this crap while we are sitting at #8….. All the talk about trading from 20 to #2 shows how serious we should probably take this trade up to the top 2 crap….. Basically, until we have a guy that the media deems to be a franchise QB, every single yeàr we will recycle this silly debate and be fixated on trading a boatload to move up for a QB, even if there is nothing in Rosemans history to suggest that he even believes in anything like this,
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I guess if we talk about trading up for a QB every year for the next decade, sooner or later we will be “right”…. i would think that there are more realistic worth while discussions to have, but once again the entire Predraft talk wll be hijacked by QB pipe dreams…. Only a few more weeks of these fairytales and media members pretending they know what the Eagles want. Most fans want to trade up for a QB, but then scoff at the real asking price that it would end up taking , rinse, recycle, repeat for the next draft
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Next year we can just copy and paste these articles and all our comments, change Wentz name to Watson, and save us all a lot of time
Lazy fairy tales made up by media…
So, just to make sure I understand, you are saying that not only are the Eagles not going to get Wentz, but that they aren’t even considering it, and furthermore aren’t even giving the impression to reporters that they are interested?
Im not saying they won’t take Wentz if he falls to #8, but I GUARENTEE we don’t see the Eagles trade into the top 4 to draft him. If anyone feels strong enough aganst that to put Somethng on it, please let me know. I’ll take any action I can get on that
If Ramsey or Tunsil is there, would you trade into the top 4?
But you are missing my point. There is a very strong possibility that the Eagles do not draft ___________ at the top of round 1. There is even less of a chance that they move up to get him. Any name can go in that slot.
Any yes, you are going to have a very hard time finding a site accepting your bet on who the Eagles do not draft, for that very reason.
Saying that these are fairy tale reports is a whole separate thing, though. The Eagles do like Wentz. They have shown repeated interest obviously enough that I know about it. They likely have hinted at interest in more discreet places that we (or at least I, since I don’t have sources) do not hear. They have likely talked to other teams about the cost to move up.
It is not nonsense reporting to present these facts. And the reports are not wrong just because we draft a different guy. The weather man said there is a chance of lightning tonight, but that moron says the same thing every year and I haven’t been struck yet.
Ok. Fair enough
I think there are 2 ‘trade’ scenarios the Eagles are looking at:
Trade in front of the Browns for a QB. That will cost at least 2 1st’s (and 1-3 mid round picks) or players to make up the value.
Trade in front of 49ers. That probably will cost you a 3rd rounder (perhaps with a later round sweetener). There is a QB you still rate and want to grab him now the cost is not prohibitive.
I am all in on the 2nd option, think it makes perfect sense for the Eagles and as long as they rate a QB that they like being available there i can see it as something that is quite likely.
Trading to 1 is a bit more scary, the cost is high with a significant opportunity cost, and the reality is that while i like all 3 top QB’s a lot, they all have significant question marks and projections to the NFL level. Having said all that, IF they do go to no.1 and get the pick right then it is all worth it, and the saving on QB $$ compared to paying for a Bradford for the next 5 years will pay for 2 quality starting free agents over the same period, making up easily for any loss of talent from the draft.
If the difference between qb2 and qb3 that great to move up to get qb2?
It would surprise me if they traded up and took either QB… But I can live with Them trading up to #6 (probably no point in trading up to #5 since neither the Jags nor Ravens will take a QB)… I wouldn’t want to trade up to #6 for a QB, but I can live with that if they feel like a QB is just too good to pass on this opportunity…. But I think there are many reasons why trading up to #1 just can’t happen. Way too rich for my blood (I assume), and the timing for us to do that is way off on a few different levels
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It’s not even that im so against drafting Wentz, I just don’t believe trading into the top 3 is a realistic possibility, I can’t force myself to believe something, I just really don’t see how trading into the top 3 is something Roseman can realistically pull the trigger on… I have to see it to believe it. It just seems so far fetched to me
great point about dropping to 8, totally plausible there that Titans would not want to go down that far. That only increases the value they would have to give up. It would be high anyway but only way they do that is if they really love a guy they dont mind taking around 8. Suppose thats possible if they are okay with another O line guy besides Tunsil. I tend to think thats the way they want to go, to protect Mariotta. Its possible to be okay with one of these other O linemen if the cost is future 1st rounders and even more picks elsewhere. They can build a plenty good o line that way.
Yeah, for the Titans to not charge us a shit tone they would have to really like Ronnie Stanley to the point that they are fine passing on Tunsil to settle on Stanley. But even that is far fetched because they would have to be certain that the Ravens and Niners WOULDNT take Tunsil.
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I just expect the price to be way too much to give up where we are right now as a’franchise. it’s so tôugh for me to imagine this happening when all we have to do is wait one more year and we will be so much more informed about our QB situation, and exactly how desperate we are for a QB… I consider us lucky to have a chance to evaluate Bradford for yeàr 2 before having to commit or move on from him, that it makes no sense for me to pay a crazy price for one of these QBs..
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is Carson Wentz really so great that we won’t see a QB of his caliber in the next 3’drafts?
Too bad we got wentz
At the very least, I feel more comfortable with Howie at the reigns in regards to the draft then I do Chip.
Yea. When Chip was the boss, it semed like every time a move was made I’d be thinking, “WTF?” This off-season, after most every move I was thinking, “Way to go!”
“WTG!”
BOC.
Re: Age Problems for 1st Rd Talent
K-State OG Cody Whitehair is — according to people far more insightful than I — a 1st-Round talent . . .
But he has a 2nd-Rd birthday. CW turns 24 on July 11th.
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But I didn’t know until this day that Oregon DE DeForest Buckner — a Top-10 1st Rd talent (per every source) — is already 24 years old.
Shouldn’t that push him well down in Rd 1 the same way Whitehair’s been?
I am pretty sure the name Whitehair is a key component in this egregious ageism.
Look at the past few defensive players from Oregon – Dion Jordon – Bust – arik armstead – Disappointing rookie season. Personally, I would be gun shy on any oregon players.
Part of it is Whitehair also plays a position that is devalued, and isn’t an athletic specimen (he’s just a master technician). He could go in the late teens or he could wait until early 3rd round. He will be a damn fine player though.
Buckner plays a premium position and is a HWS guy.
Doctson the TCU WR is also 24 and is a guy people don’t seem to know what to do with draft position wise.
I think the media is driving the narrative that Buckner is a top 10 guy. Nice college player but I highly doubt he’s going to do what he does at the next level.
This stuff about Wentz seems ridiculous to me. How does he stand out from all the other flavor-of-the-month QBs that become hot commodities right before the draft?
“right before the draft” is an unfair statement. He’s been mocked as a top 5 pick for a while.
From a guy who only really watches draft buzz and build up from afar, I agree completely. There is a BUT attached. Sometimes those guys wind up being really good. Cam’s hype seemed to only start a few weeks before the draft that snowballed incredibly.
Wait, Cam the QB of the national champion team, that guy?
Yep. I just recall draft people not being that high on him. Then all of a sudden he climbed to top 10 talk, then it became a given he was 1 over all.
I think its his size and athleticism that make him stand out and keep getting hyped. Who knows if it pans out, the GMs sure would like to have a crystal ball
I won’t say that Wentz isn’t going to be a franchise QB, I haven’t seen any where close to enough to be able to have an opinion like that about the kid….. But this notion that we will package multiple top 100 picks to trade up for a QB in this draft is completely ridiculously unrealistic…
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I don’t know what will happen if Wentz falls to #8, put no chance in hell we trade up for him…. Media throws out some bullshit, and we take it hook, line and sinker every year.
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This time next year, I bet anything. the media will be sAyng we are in love with some QB prospect, and we are one of the teams trying to trade up for him… Only Bradford having a monster season can save us from the media recycling this silly pipe dream Narrative again Next April
I am all about finding a QB by any means necessary. I don’t know about giving up a kings ransom right now for one. Not saying we shouldn’t, I genuinely don’t know how a feel about it.
The time to do that is when the team is constructed around the young guy already. Red shirt top 10 picks just ins’t a thing anymore. Does the FO feel like we have that now? If so go for it. Alternatively you do that when the guy is so special you can’t pass.
Not sure when a team has given up a ton in the draft for a QB and it has worked out though. The only time I can think of is NYG for Eli, and I think it is safe to put that situation on an island. Take the SBs away and that trade really doesn’t favor the Giants anyway. I agree its pretty silly to say “take the Super Bowls away”, but really Eli wasn’t exactly responsible for those.
Did the ball magically throw itself?
Some were magically caught.
(but I think the question is: swap out Rivers for Manning and are the results any different? That’s the differential in the trade. Not zero QB v Eli.)
Rivers sucked in the playoffs. Eli is one of the most clutch playoff QBs ever. Give credit where credit is due.
David Tyree might tell you there was some magic.
Whatever voodoo magic Eli uses on the cheatriots in the playoffs should be shared. Else everyone would hear from cheatriots fans non-stop for decades. Thanks Eli, keep doing you.
At least for the first one, the key was that Giants’ front 4, who didn’t need blitzes to get pressure. Brady’s magical second half ability to diagnose blitzes in the huddle was of no use against that.
As much as I dislike the Patriots, would much prefer they win it to the Giants.
I think you’re missing the stability factor with Eli. Good or bad, the Giants had stability at the position for the past how many years. Without Eli, the Giants may well have been as bad as Cleveland or Buffalo.
Hey, its obviously worked out well. You can’t actually disregard two SBs. Maybe its 3 if they have Phillip Rivers and those extra picks though.
problem is when a guy is that special a team up top takes him, they dont get sold on a trade out. Seems like there are 5 plus elite QBs and some of them have already been playing for a 10 plus years so the sample size is always so small. Makes the risk always so high in these scenarios but I dont mind. I say gamble until you get a franchise QB. Even then it could be a Matt Ryan type and then the struggles become far and wide for building the team, getting the right coach, skill players etc.
I had a dream last night that Chip was hooking up with Sharon Stone, and they wanted me to not tell the paparazzi. Chip got mad at me when I told my brother.
I don’t know what this means but it felt like something I should share.
noooooooo you broke the bro code
If the Eagles really end up trading up all the way to draft Wentz you seriously can’t tell me that Bradford will be on our opening gameday roster.
Why do you say that? McNabb sat with a clipboard for several games. Granted, the Eagles did not trade up to get McNabb but both would be high picks regardless of what it took to be in that position.
Because I don’t see how we will go into a season with Bradford, the best paid backup in the NFL and a No.1 OVR pick at QB.
I can see how it works both ways, sitting a top QB pick or putting them in right away. The money invested in QB is skyrocketing, but you either pay for a capable backup or you pay in terms of what happened to the Cowboys without Romo last year.
I do. Its the Reid-model. And it kind of fits with everything Lurie and Roseman has been saying about the position all offseason.
I dont think there would be a lot of interest in trading for bradford barring some camp injury
I happen to think that there will be at least one team screaming for a QB come kickoff weekend…
Probably right. Still, they keep them all and for those Sam fans, maybe they can see if the light goes on and he takes steps up in growth. Then have Wentz learn on the bench, cost doesnt change much for this coming season anyway. Its why I think the Browns will draft a QB at 2. Widen the net, gets guys that may still become something along with youth that you hope pans out. Why not increase your teams odds I say, esp at QB, esp if youre the browns.
Trading Bradford this offseason is not realistic
wait’ll the browns see what griffin still has left
I disagree wholeheartedly. This is the perfect situation to draft a rookie QB and have him sit, no matter if you draft said QB in the 1st or 7th rounds of the draft. Bradford’s deal is essentially a one year deal so he should and will open the season as the starter. In Daniel, Pederson has a QB he knows and trust well so right there they have another place holder for the rookie. This situation couldn’t be more ideal for bringing in a rook.
I’m not sure I get how everyone says Sam in basically on a 1 year deal. If he is cut, that would be a $9.5M cap hit.
The only way he is on a 1-year deal is if he is traded, even that would leave a $5.5M cap hit.
Offset language means if he signs for any other team it’s also only 5.5 mil dead money. Doesn’t have to be traded.
5.5 dead money >>>>> 23.5 for mediocrity.
Sunk costs my friend. Sunk costs.
Got it, thx
Thank you, sir.
Think its a lock that the Eagles take a QB. They may even take 1 at #8.. I’ll even concede the possibility that they trade up to #5 for a QB…. But the notion that we will end up picking Wentz in the top 3 is absurd
The only legitimate trade partners I see would be the Browns and Jaguars, with the Jaguars being the more likely candidate.
If we are trading up specifically to take a QB, probably no reason to trade with the Jags since we know neither the Jags nor Ravens are taking a QB.. So odds are the QB we would want to take at #5, can still be had at #6
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The Cowboys could be a great trade partner in that, they could move down to #8 and probably get Zeke who they can really use to try and keep Romo healthy, but I have a hard time believing the Eagles and Cowboys would be willing to do business with each other that high in the draft
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With what we invested in SAM and Chase, we can afford to wait TIL after round 1 to get a QB. but I struggle seeing how signing Rg3 can afford Hue Jackson that luxury.. If Wentz and Goff are as good as they are being made out to be, I really find it hard to believe that the Browns will pass on one,,
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Titans apparently really want to trade back, but I have hard time believing they want to move all the way down to #8, and to talk them into that type of a trade down, I would assume ends up costing 3, probably 4 top 100 picks which im not ok trading for any prospect in this draft
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The Niners are interesting because the assumption is that teams will have to trade ahead of them to get the 2nd Qbs drafted, but would we really be surprised of Chip overestimates his scheme, and thinks he can win with BLAINE Gabbert and take a QB later in the draft? Chip is batshit crazy enough to not rule that out as a possibility. But on the other hand, Trent Baalke probably doesn’t have the most job security these days, and iTs not uncommon for a GM or Coach to draft a QB early as a way to buy some more time before being fired and hope the kid goes on to save their job, so the niners situation is pretty interesting, I can’t assume anything when it comes to them
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It’s also important to remember that this time of year, the media DOESNT know half as much as we wish they knew. These narratives start picking up steam to the poïnt where they become accepted as faux reality, and then the draft unfolds and we find out how wrong it was… The narrative that has kind of become reality now is that the Browns, Niners, Eagles and Rams are the teams that are really desperate to draft a QB. However, there are so Many other teams that I can see absolutely feeling like they have a real need at QB and they aren’t even being considered at this point:
1) I wouldnt call the Chargers stupid if they decided to start investing in life after Phillip Rivers
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2) Im hoping Dallas is stupid enough to pass on a chance at getting Romos successor.
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3) the Bears. I wouldn’t call them stupid if they started to look for an alternative to Cutler who was an epic mistake for them
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4) the Saints. Brees insanely expensive contract probably will keep them from spending a first round pick on a QB, but they are going to have to start looking for yoûng successor soon
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5) Bills,,, IMO Tyrod Taylor hasn’t even come close to proving to be a franchise guy yet, 1 solid season makes him a flash in the pan.. This next season will determine how legit he is
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6) Jets… Can’t completely rule out them wanting to trade up for a QB, when they offered their starting QB 7mil, that showed how much they resoect Fitzy with an offer than was basically a spit in the face
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7) Soon the Cardinals will have to start thinking about life after Carson
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8) The Broncos are also an obvious candidate to trade up for a QB, the only real question is how high do they trade up…. Sitting with The past pick in round 1 is a TERRIBLE place to be when needing. QB, for the simple fact that it has become somewhat common to see a team that planned on getting its QB in round 2, leap frog a few teams and trade up back into the end of round 1 to get a QB, with the added bonus of getting him on a 5th year option if they take him in round 1 instead of round 2.. So if the Broncos think they can sit at 31 and a QB they like falls into their Lap, THATS a dangerous game to play, because every team at the top of round 2 will know that they have to jump the Broncos to get a falling QB like Lynch, or Cook,,
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It’s probably foolish to give the Media so much credit to expect them to really know what an NFL franchise wants to do in the draft. Teams guard that info like its some nuclear launch codes… Even If a reporter manages to really find out what a team wants to do, odds are they probably won’t know what each of the other 30 teams plan on doing.
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If a Media member can even guess all ten players that will go in the top 10, I would consider that a GREAT JOB done by the reporter, even if he gets the order right, Expecting a media member to know much more than that, I have a hard time believing. and this isn’t even me ripping the media, they aren’t meant to know, teams are very guarded about their intentions.
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The latest news is now the Eagles are in Love with Carson Wentz, so much that we are aggressively trying to trade all the way up to #1… If this is Rosemans true intention, then I would assume that he will unleash a campaign of counterintelligence to try and blurr that line.. So if that report is true, about a week from now we should hear some reporter ranting and raving about finding out that Roseman loves Bosa, or the other QB or some other player.
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I don’t know anything that everyone else doesn’t know, but this trade up talk is almost I possible for me to believe
Really? Come on man, we ain’t trading all the way up for Wentz. That’s so unrealistic on so many different levels it’s absurd that we are actually discussing this as a real topic.
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For starters, if the Eagles were that serious about their desire to get one of the top 2’Qbs in this draft, there is no way in hell that Both Bradford and Chase would be here considering both cost a pretty penny, if the Plan was to get our “franchise QB” round 1 of this draft, Bradford WOULDNT be an eagle, and we would be going into the season with Chase being the Doug Pederson to Wentz’s Donovan.
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For them to trade a boatload for Wentz essentially ends the Bradford era before it even has a chance to start. If they already knew that Bradord isn’t their guy, we would have never given him 22mil. they gave him a short term deal because keeping SAM DIDNT require a Longterm commitment thanks To his weak market this offseason. Why wouldn’t they take an opportunity to evaluate him for another before committing to him Longterm?.. IMO, it’s so unrealistic that Roseman would workout a compromise with Bradfords super agent, and then be so disingenuous as to trade him to some other team Bradford and his gamp didn’t agree on… You may be able to do some slimey shit like that with a Novice agent, but you ain’t Fucking Bradfords super agent like that. When you see guys get franchised and traded, typically they are upfront with the player and the agent about them trying to trade them, and their opinion of the trade partner matters and factors into the equation.
..For the Eagles to give SAM 22 Mil, make chase the Highest paid backüp, and then go trade away a package of premier picks for a QB is just not even possible IMO… It would show such a level of incompetance and Indecisiveness by our front Office that I can’t possibly believe it’s a possibility, Roseman may not be the Greatest GM in the world, but I think way more highly of him than that level of Incompetance,
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SAM WONT be traded this offseason, and they won’t be making some crazy investment in a QB turning Bradford into a Lame Duck QB… SAM is here because they really believe he has a chance to be their guy, and they were fortunate enough to get him in a situation where we are able to evaluate him for another season before having to decide on committing to him..
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maybe they would draft a QB if he fell to #8, but I think this rumor about a trade package for Wentz is absurd. For a self proclaimed Intelligent Fanbase, the media puts some bullshit out there, tell us to Jump. And we lose our minds, throw better judgment out the window and right away say “How High”
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I think this notion is so unrealistic that even discussing it is stupidity… It still blows my mind how every year some media member claims to know the Eagles intentions and we actually end up believing them..
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When we don’t Trade up for Wentz, this time next year, there will be media members who claims that we love some QB in next years draft, release a rumor Of us trading up for some QB, and like every year, we will take the Bait and spend a month talking about some unrealistic crap that won’t happen.
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I don’t know what the Eagles will do if Wentz or Goff is available at #8, but I’d bet anything we wont see some crazy package moving up for the Flavor of the month QB
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We can’t possibly discuss this fairytale for another month. I will lose my mind
I didn’t say nor think THATthe Eagles will trade up. I used the big “IF” for a reason. 😉 However IF the Eagles do trade up, I can’t see them going into the season with Bradford, Daniel AND Wentz.. Just my 2 cents..
Cleveland is all about the moneyball.. my guess is they take Ramsey or OL..
be interesting to see how that approach works, football isn’t baseball or basketball. “System” coaches aren’t nearly as successful in football.
agreed.. hopefully eagles get who they want.. whomever that may end up being..
too bad there’s not more top-end talent. Of course we’re at 20 when 10 can’t miss prospects and at 8 when there’s 1.
Yes I seriously can. The dead money hit for moving him would be ridiculous.
All this talk about a Bradford trade is based on avoiding that one incontrovertible truth. Trade or release, you don’t dump that kind of money down the drain. And with that contract, you’re not getting much in return if you did find a trade partner.
Bradford would be gone if someone offered a cond 3rd rounder in that trade scenario. Dead money hit or not.
Lynch’s pro day… now there is a guy who knows how to make his case. Making great throws in windy conditions, difficult patterns, he is clearly not considering himself an afterthought in the draft discussion.
All his skills come from that stylish goatee.
I still don’t like Lynch. His has a great arm and he is a big dude, but his technique and throwing motion just looks poor. He routinely throws with the weight on his back foot, he throws the ball sideways because he doesnt get his feet aligned properly and he has a windup that seem to start at the waist. As a pocket passer I think he needs a lot of work on mechanics, and I dont remember anyone with those problems at the draft improving significantly in the pro’s. His appeal is his big size and big arms, but as a pocket passer he just doesnt look ready. I think he might end up a disappointment, or at least more of a project than his draft position might indicate.
Looks like a Backstreet Boy
Goff doesn’t exactly look like a Rough Ryder,,
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lynch to me looks like some Emo Painter
He doesn’t care who you are, where you’re from, what you did… as long as you love him. And, THAT is what makes him a franchise QB.
ESP claims Lynch is better than Wentz,,, love to know how much work ESP put into coming up with that QB evaluation that he is willing to share with his readers
ESP believed that Mark Sanchez could beat out Sam Bradford too, all the way up until he actually saw them throw in person.
I liked sanchez. Just wish he was a better football player, just one of those guys that makes bad mistakes at the wrong time.
Disaster waiting to Happen, he has become what Romo used to be
He’s my fav. Needs some work but thats why you get him early in his career when he can sit for a year.
I favored Wentz early, but I am higher on Goff now. TL, your write-ups played into my thinking, but I also saw more tape on Goff which looked pretty impressive. Bottom line, I don’t like the prospective cost of moving up for anybody, but if Goff is available at 5, I would view a jump to 5 a fair price, Moving up higher for Wentz strikes me as wishful thinking.
this has been my thought all along. I think Goff can happen but do we think they like him is another question. Does seem like they Wentz is their preference but based on what, not sure, wining and dining
Arm, think Howie, Lurie and that other guy, oh Dougy P, really like having deep threat.
ya they keep bringing in burners to check out in later rounds so makes sense.
Cleveland (3-13)- Def think QB goes here
San Diego (4-12)- Low chance they take a QB, seems like a good trade partner if a team wanted to jump up — OL is a good possibility
Dallas (4-12)- OL if not off the board, maybe zeke
Jacksonville (5-11)- No QB
Baltimore (5-11)- No QB
San Francisco (5-11)- didn’t move Keap or cut him, makes it hard to say they’ll take someone but Goff would be at home.
Eagles – I really like the QBs on this team, but there’s no one else at 8 that i think is really worth that high a pick. Even if you don’t want a QB maybe you take one and then develop and trade.
What does the draft look like in spots 10-20? Good value there?
anon, for Dallas did you mean DL?
yeah probably, they’ve had a propensity for taking OL early, but really just non-QB. Although JJ Jr. could surprise us and plan for the future.
Dallas is the wildcard in this. If they decide on QB, it could very much end up being:
Titans – Tunsil
Cleveland Browns – Wentz
San Diego Chargers – Jack
Dallas Cowboys – Goff
Jacksonville Jaguars – Ramsey
Baltimore Ravens – Bosa
San Francisco 49ers – Buckner
Philadelphia Eagles – VH3? or Elliott?
If Ramsey is there at 5, I will make a bold prediction that Ozzie Newsome will offer a few of his grandchildren to Jacksonville to jump in front. Ramsey is the surest difference-maker in this draft.
cleveland has to be crazy to think that signing RG3 affords them the luxury of passing on a QB?
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Chargers are interesting because on one hand Shefty claims there is a good chance both Qbs will go top 3 meaning they could get some enticing value allowing a team to move up to 3 for a QB, but on the other hand, if you are the Chargers and you are desperate for a OT or a Safety, how willing would you be to trade out of a spot that almost ensures that you will get Tunsil or Ramsey, two Truley elite prospects who both fill your biggest needs?
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As our hated rivals, I hope the cowboys don’t draft a QB, so drafting a QB would probably be a smart idea. Hopefully Jerruh forgets to take his smart pills that morning and has so much faith in romo that he waits Til round 4 for a QB
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If chip kelly didn’t coach the niners, I would feel certain about them taking a QB, but I can’t put it past the Mad King to think his offense is so great that he can win with GAbbert and some round 4 QB. Not knowing how much power chip will even have on draft night, who the hell knows what the niners will do..
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the Cowboys and the Rams are probably the big X factors at QB. Rams because they have draft ammo to move up…. But there are plenty of teams that aren’t talked about that could be considering trying to move up for a QB like the Bears, Broncos, jets, Cardinals.
Not to argue with you, but “def think’ in Cleveland when their owner is calling the shots and they have a front office run by two guys who know less football than a decapitated chicken is impossible.
Who the F can really figure them out. Watch them take Bosa or Elliot to get that home town Ohio feel!
wouldn’t discount it, they gotta sell tickets. But if the moneyball has ANY say they won’t take a RB at 8, they could trade that pick and move back deep into the 1st rd, assuming they don’t take a QB. I think they have to take a QB, can’t field a team with RGIII starting.
“I think they have to take a QB, can’t field a team with RGIII starting.”
Logic might say that’s the case, but Haslem LOVES RG3 and has been obsessed with him since the Browns “missed” on trading up for him in 2012. There is a really strong chance that Haslem compelled that move to take place because he wants RG3 as his QB.
Whatever happened to disinformation? Z is to be trusted, and Z is not a hack writer looking to get his name in a by-line, but HR or DP can’t expect to keep their cards covered if they let one “honorable” analyst/draftnik know what they’re really thinking. This is the time of the season when a lot of soon-to-be-forgotten assertions are made. As smoothly as HR has handled his return to the GM’s desk, I cannot believe that he would advertise his plans. Maybe Zierlein’s take is one of twenty-plus predictions, which range from Elliot at 8, moving back to pick up another pick, to holding at 8 to take Stanley or Jack, but I am skeptical that Z’s take has more credibility than any of the others.
“Z knows nothing! Nuuuth-thing!”
I think the statement is more one of his opinions are worth listening to, that he isn’t just some guy spouting nonsense.
Sgt. Schultz would’ve been a good franchise rep.
Nuzzink
Haven’t you heard? The new and improved Roseman has decided to share his draft board with any media member who asks, and will post his board online the week before the draft.. #Transparency
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I cringe whenever a media member claims to know a teams draft intentions, Maybe a team like the Titans is willing to share with a reporter that he is having multiple conversations with Roseman or whatever teams GM, but even if a reporter gets that legit scoop, what are the odds that the same reporter knows about all the other teams Roseman has talked to, and knows all the teams he hasn’t talked to?
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It’s not even about ripping the media, they aren’t meant to know these things. Probably a better chance of finding out a teams free agent intentions than it is to find out what a teams real draft plans are, teams are so guarded about the draft, that even if a reporter really does know what you are up to, a team will probabky follow that up with all types of counter Intel to put your report in doubt
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Just compare the draft results to the EXPERTS mock drafts, typically media ISNT hitting on like a 80% accuracy when it comes to guessing teams picks correctly. it’s hard enough for an expert to get the 20 names that will go in the top 20 correctly, łet alone know which team will take them at a certain spot. This isn’t a knock on The media, it’s just the nature of the Beast, teams are so guarded about their intentions, impossible to correctly forsee all the trades that will change the landscape of The draft. Even teams are surprised on draft night by certain players falling to them that they didn’t expect, If teams can’t correctly mock the first round of a draft, how can the media even stand a chance? It’s not easy at all.. I applaud a media member just for knowing which ten kids ended up going in the top 10, łet alone at what spot and to what team.
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for Shefter or whoever in the media to really know our draft plans, means that Roseman isn’t doing a very good job, this isn’t meant to be known.,there are so many factors and different variables it’s not reasonable to expect anyone outside of a draft room to really know… And there is a lot that Roseman and doug DONT even know,… Im not sure that The CIA could even find out a teams draft plans.
I just cant read qb that well. My thought is get another OL and build there. Cb in rd 3.
Going to be a rough couple years.
Why will it be rough?
I have no faith in Sam Bradford. Basically think he is what he is.
Going to be a building and transition year. Maybe the team drafts a qb early and that improves things for the future.
Chip was every bit the team wrecking mess I expected.
See I go to the other side of the ball for thinking it will be a fun year.
I think HOWIE has done a fantastic job so far this offseason, making sure we have a credible starter at every starting position. We needed a safety for like the past decade, and our OL was a mess. Roseman managed to put together what Can be a great safety tandem in McLeod and Jenkins. Our Guards were a mess last year, and Roseman managed to add two starting Caliber OL Brooks and Wiz who have both Been durable and both been starting in this league for years. we also get Gardner back who I thought was better than Barbie and Tobin. even better is the fact that they will probably add to the OL in the draft.
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Roseman managed to clean up chips mess and also laid a really nice sound foundation to Build on. From there he has put us in position to add four top 100 picks, one of which will be a top 5 pick, and 9 picks total. Understanding it isn’t an exact Science so it’s probably unrealistic to expect us to hit on all 9 picks, even if we come out of this draft hitting on 5 or 6 of our picks, that will have been a fantastic offseason. We have next years starting lineup in place, and we are set up to be In a position where with two good drafts in a row, we could have a really strong and Deep roster in Place… I really would have to mess this opportunity to build something correctly and package 3 or 4 top picks in the next two drafts on a QB, especially when if we are being honest, the Eagles ARENT certain that they don’t have a QB.
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Saying that the Eagles are sold on Bradford, or that they aren’t sold on Bradford, are probably incorrect extremes..Reality Check: if you only viewed SAM as a bridge QB, we wouldnt have even given him half of the 22mil we gave him. If you knew SAM Wasnt the answer, he wouldn’t even be an eagle. We would have proceeded with making Chase the highest paid backüp, and have him function as a bridge for the QB we draft. There is just no realistic way that it can be claimed that the Eagles know that Bradford ISNT that future QB… But it’s also not fair to say that they are sold on him… The situation is crystal clear, they think he could be the guy, but need to see more before they are willing to go all in committing to him…. The terms of his contract should leave no debate about that..
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Packaging multiple premier picks in the next two drafts isnt some casual decision. That’s way harder decision than committing 22 to Bradford for 1 year. We are talking about a decision that could really put a dent in our ability to properly build thru the draft. I think this a horrible time to consider such a decision and this isn’t the draft class that screams to me, “We have to do whatever it takes to get That QB”
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I just really feel like we are in a great position to really build the correct way, and making a big trade all the way up to the top #2, is like the one thing we can do that can screw up the position Roseman put us in if the kid we trade up for DOESNT turn out to be one of the best QBs in the League 4 years from now.
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I think we are in such a great position that the thought of risking it makes it just so hard for me to believe. For me that smart course of action is pretty clear. take our 9 draft picks, hopefully come away with 5 or 6 kids that end up being part of our future. Maybe hit on 1 of the Undrafted free agents. Go into next season with Bradford, spend yeàr two with him, after The first healthy offseason in years, put him in a better situation behind a better OL, playimg with a better defense, and invest one stinking season in really finding out exactly what we have before making a decision on him either way. If we find out that he is not the answer, then it would make a lot more sense to me to start Considering costly ways of securing a QB in the next two drafts. Moving on from SAM, committing to SAM, packaging top picks in the Next two drafts for a prospect, THESE are ENORMOUS DECISIONS, some of The biggest decisions we will have to make, no matter what we decide, I think it wouldn’t be smart to rush this. Take the opportunity to really find out exactly what we have and what we don’t have, before we decide to take Drastic measures gambling our ability to build thru the next two drafts..
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aFter everything we been thru, I don’t think it should be too much to ask for to invest one more season so that we can make the most informed decision possible before marrying our next QB….. Pay the insane Cost to move up to #2 essentially means we are getting Married to Carson Wentz. I don’t see anyone sexy enough to dive into Marrige with, especially when I’m fortunate enough to be in position to spend a year dating Bradford before his agent puts a shotgun to our head and forces us to Marry him..
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The entre timing for such a serious, drastic decision is all off. And there may be talented Qbs in this draft, but nothing sexy enough to rush and ignore the bad timing of a move like this…
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Use our 9 picks to draft 9 players, hopefully hitting on 5 or 6, see what Bradford does next year, while seeing if we get lucky and the QB we draft in the middle rounds ends up beng much better than expected,,, and if a year from now, we still feel like we need a QB, I will have to support more drastic measures such as a major trade up
Well said. Nine picks is a lot….. Can’t necessarily stash many of PS.
I don’t mind trading up for sliding talents. Ala Maclin draft year… Or how we were able to take Cox. Hehe. Those were first roundees of course, so not exactly what i am talking about… But as an example somehow gettin into the second round would be very helpful… Given the wait we’d have that second day will make everyone antsy.. Plus the way the DT position is stacked…got no issue with only ending up with say 7 picks – one for a decent trade up and one for a future draft. Howie’s gonna get his value with this much ammo. Hopefully hitting on a sliding stud DT day 2.
I agree the QB situation in the draft is maddening, but I don’t think we’ll be that rough of a spot.
I really don’t see either of the QBs as top 5 talent, no way. Especially Wentz, he is just Blake Bortles 2.0. Never had to face real competition.
If the Eagles traded up for Wentz I will throw the remote through the TV.
who do you see as top 5 talent? Agree that these guys probably wouldn’t be top 5 in 2012, but every draft is it’s own monster.
Tunsil, Ramsey, Jack are the cream of the crop, everyone else is not on the same level, and not really worth trading up for.
Let me play devil’s advocate for a second. If this is a weak draft would you not value picks in future drafts greater than this year’s?
I’m ok moving back into the teens or even out of the first round if they don’t feel like they have a 5* prospect available at 8. But don’t think they would have moved up to 8 if they didn’t think (a) they wanted a qb or (b) they could get more value there than getting an extra 4th.
isn’t bortles good?
Bortles went to UCF and they actually do face real competition. Also if Wentz is Bortles 2.0, why wouldn’t you take that? Look at how Bortles progressed last season and had a really good year.
Ah, if we only had Allen Robinson and Allen Hurns instead of Jordan Mathews and Josh Huff. Bottles is a very lucky QB, if we switched receivers from the 2014 draft, he would be mentioned as a bust.
I probably should have written that better. I meant that as two points – 1. he faced weak competition, 2. he is very similar to Bortles in terms of projecting him to the NFL
If they traded up to 5 or 6; I’d be ok with Wentz or Goff. I’d really prefer Goff.
If they sold out everything to go to 1…………..I’d be livid as well.
But I like Wentz’s chances a lot better if he sits for a year.
So why Wentz at 5 or 6 but not Lynch at 8? Why is Wentz better?
Because Lynch isn’t close to the other two.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000612645/article/memphis-paxton-lynch-doesnt-have-look-of-nflready-qb
Cmon Mike your linking to an NFL.com article to make a point, that’s terrible because they suck over there you’re better then that. Also that article says Lynch isn’t pro ready, but he doesn’t have to come to Philly to play right away. I’m not banging the drum for Lynch, but if your argument against him is that article you really aren’t saying much.
I happen to like Brooks, but point taken on NFL.com as a whole.
I just think there is too much of a leap from what Lynch is to what Lynch needs to be in order to be successful in the NFL to take him early.
Lol, the ‘ol Bucky Brooks article basing his entire career off one game!
“However, I had some questions about his readiness and potential based on my extensive tape study (Ole Miss, Houston, Temple, South Florida, and Cincinnati) prior to the Birmingham Bowl.”
6 games. These five and the bowl game.
Who did Wentz play against that was even significant though? I’m not gonna change your mind, I just think it’s silly you base the entire opinion off of what one analyst says.
The competition level for Wentz was also quite weak.
I just think Lynch comes up short due to the system he played at Memphis…………and to be clear I disliked him WAY before Brooks did.
So given the QB discussion, I ran a mock. Both QBs were snatched before I could pick, so this is what I could salvage.
Round 1 Pick 8: Myles Jack, OLB/ILB, UCLA (A+)
Round 3 Pick 14: Christian Westerman, OG, Arizona State (A)
Round 3 Pick 16: Javon Hargrave, DT, South Carolina State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 2: Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B)
Round 5 Pick 14: De’Vondre Campbell, OLB, Minnesota (B-)
Round 5 Pick 25: Justin Simmons, FS, Boston College (B-)
Round 6 Pick 13: Kevin Hogan, QB, Stanford (B-)
Round 7 Pick 12: Aaron Green, RB, TCU (A+)
Round 7 Pick 30: Deiondre’ Hall, CB, Northern Iowa (A+)
Like it! But Barner will start 4 games sir.
Aaron Green was a better RB in 6th grade than Barner is now.
Lol
Hinkie
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Process this
So hopefully all the Sixers homers can stop believing the Sixers are anywhere near being close to being a good team. Hinkie’s plan sucked and didn’t work and this team is worst off then the Lakers are at this point.
And I was content to not fire Hinkie until Embiid failed to live up to potential and Saric didn’t pan out.
What’s funny is if both make it here and play the way they should that it’ll somewhat vindicate Hinkie. I just think that the 4th straight year of poop basketball with no sings of trying to improve the roster going into this season was too much to take.
As a process truster i am gutted, “the process” was always high risk, and the reality is that the way ping pong balls played out the team had to wait on talent to arrive.
The lack of signing veterans was partially done so that the team could tank, but far more significantly it was done to keep ownership in a positive cash flow while the team sucked. Hinkie may have wanted to bring in 2 decent vets on medium term deals which would have improved the play a little but that would have cost ownership $10’s of millions and for no long term benefit other than making a 10 win team a 20 win one.
The sixers will improve, because they have loads of cap space and decent assets in the next few years to acquire more talent.
However i honestly think if we do not get a top 2 pick this year we will improve enough to be a decent team, but will be have missed out on the ability to be a ‘great’ team.
I’m with all of that, but when you have agents of rookies outplaying your rookie refusing to let you work out his player…………what does that say about Hinkie? The Porzingis miss is pretty damning. Hinkie’s complete lack of people skills and press availability also made investing into the process very hard to do because you could never get a honest progress report out of the guy or any reasonable benchmarks for improvement from the current players on the team. Hinkie bungling the rehab of Embiid was also another strike against him.
All in all, I don’t mind the tanking concept, but “we’re going to suck until we dont, but we can’t tell you to when we we’ll finally be good” isn’t good enough. Hinkie never sold anybody on the fact that the process was actually going to pay off.
no program building either, look at timberwolves they got a top talent it’s not always enough, good teams don’t just have 1 star, they have lots of good stars players. Different than 5 years ago.
Patriot fans are suing over the lost pick. I wish I was making this up.
“The seven fans include a season ticket holder from Connecticut who said the scandal has left his 7-year-old daughter disillusioned and a Florida man who said the NFL’s sanctions have caused him stress and lost sleep.”
http://bigstory.ap.org/e2a55466f48b4743bfc81bed443e9d5a
Outside of “reduces the value of my tickets on the secondary market” I’m not sure what type of standing they could have.
would you sue the pats and not the nfl?
That’s a good question.
I need to sue Chip Kelly then
And Cleveland will end up with the highest per capita wealth in the nation.
And we wonder what is wrong with America nowadays.
Nothing that deporting half the lawyers wouldn’t improve.
When i was 4 or 5 years old my mom was driving on Alleghany with me in the backseat when suddenly a car abruptly stopped in front of us in which we rear ended.
My family was far from financially stable when i was young, so naturally my parents had pretty crappy insurance.
The couple we rear ended ended up managing to sue my mom and her insurance for bodily harm amongst other things. The insurance wasnt enough to cover everything. It ended up putting my family in a severe hardship.
Turns out this couple we rear ended have made a living off of making accidents and hitting people with lawsuits. From what i remember they eventually ended up in prison.
I unserstand why attorneys and lawsuites are necessary. However i despise how people just look for any reason to sue. Its a real sickening trend in the US.
Welcome to America! Lol
I come in peace
like everyone said the last time you posted this same thing.
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