Watching Wentz
Posted: April 22nd, 2016 | Author: Tommy Lawlor | Filed under: Philadelphia Eagles | 156 Comments »Let’s take a look at some pretty darn impressive moments from Carson Wentz.
2. Eagles-Carson Wentz: elite arm strength, good athlete, big frame,natural born winner, good leader pic.twitter.com/m6CjE6W6Kq
— NFL Intel (@IntelNFL) April 22, 2016
https://twitter.com/damnnuby/status/723653134225002496
https://twitter.com/damnnuby/status/723659939785240576
Carson Wentz playing the zone read. https://t.co/BK0UJzwXyO
— Marco Álvarez (@deionmarco) April 10, 2016
Carson Wentz averaged about 40 rush yards per game in his 23 career starts pic.twitter.com/YN1oAtsltt
— Matt Pearce (@Matt_Pearce13) March 26, 2016
You can see how physically gifted Wentz is.
He has a strong arm and can make every throw.
He can be very accurate. He needs to be more consistent with his downfield accuracy, but he will make some absolutely terrific throws.
Wentz isn’t afraid to put the ball into tight spots. He will give his receivers a chance to make plays for him. I wish he would do this more often, but he will do it at times.
QB runs were a regular part of the NDSU offense. He ran for 936 yards and 12 TDs over the past 2 seasons. Some QBs don’t want to take advantage of their mobility. Wentz likes to run and he’s very good at it.
There is no question that Wentz looks like an NFL QB. I normally don’t like QBs to be as big as Wentz, but that’s because guys that size usually aren’t as athletic as him. Wentz had a better 3-cone time than Cam Newton. Heck, he had a better 3-cone time than former Eagle CB Sheldon Brown, despite being 41 pounds heavier. Wentz is a big, strong man, but he is also a terrific athlete.
We have no idea if Wentz will pan out in the NFL. If he does, it certainly won’t be due to a lack of size, strength or natural ability.
*****
Eagles signed wide receiver T.J. Graham
— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) April 22, 2016
Graham ran 4.41 at the Combine a few years back. He has legit speed.
He had drops issues during his time in Buffalo. He also didn’t have very good QBs up there. It isn’t likely he’ll come to Philly and suddenly emerge as a good receiver, but he’s worth taking a flier on . Low risk, potential reward.
_
Damn, that first clip is impressive.
[…] Tommy Lawlor Let’s take a look at some pretty darn impressive moments from Carson Wentz. 2. Eagles-Carson […]
He’s got a chance to be very, very good. The odds are always against it, but if you don’t find the right QB, you need an amazing supporting cast or there’s no shot at a Super Bowl. I think they needed to take this shot.
hope we get wentz, im starting to think why would the rams even take goff over wentz? is goff better for rams offense?
Opinions are split among experts and fans. Neither candidate is even close to a sure thing. Goff is often said to have a higher floor; Wentz a higher ceiling; but there’s not even close to complete agreement on that either.
A common refrain ive heard is that Goff is more NFL ready, is better from the pocket and thats what they need right now. However wentz seems like a QB that fisher would love ..big bodied and more athletic in the mould of Mcnair and young.
yup, and the OC is going just his 2nd year of being OC.. and its hard to say what he wants.
I heard LA views him as a safer pick,and some of his short comings like hand size ARENT as big of a deal playing in LA climate …
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We probably won’t find out because after the draft they will praise Goff without trying to bad mouth Wentz, so unlikely we get any substantial answers as to why they went Goff over Wentz… They will say someothing like Blah BlahBlah we loved both QBs, Blah blah blah but we decided to go with Goff
The thing that makes me think it is Goff is the way reporters who have access to the Rams are talking about it. Rams have cultivated a significant part of the national media by giving access and time to them in exchange for generally supportive coverage. It is one of the reasons why for some reason you almost never see Fisher criticized in the ‘serious’ football media.
Those reporters have been saying Goff is the pick. Not that they think it is the pick but that it will be the pick. There is no reason for the Rams to be particularly secretive about the pick – especially with their cultivated circle of reporters. 1-2 leaked ‘sources’ will give the draft enough ‘drama’ coming into the 1st pick so why not give out some nibbles of information to their reporting ‘friends’.
It seems to me like most of Wentz issues are the type of things that quality coaching can fix. Not to bash on the NDSU quarterback coach, but it’s unquestionable that the level of coaching the Eagles have at the QB position is on another level.
Don’t forget that they’re only allowed 20 hours in a week to coach the players in college. In the NFL, football is your life.
I noticed that he got pretty good protection on all his throws. I wonder how he played with pressure and a free pusher barreling down him.
I hate to draw the comparison but remember how Vick would deal with those situations: escape, or throw off back foot (with mixed results).
Hmmm, no, wait…Defenses generally had a Vick mod, the circumstances and how that shapes Vick’s behavior is going to be off when thinking about Wentz.
Wentz is more like Derek Carr in the pros in a number of bad ways. Vision is a problem with both of them, as athletic as they are.
As with a lot of highlights they show the good plays not less eye catching ones.
This is my interpretation of his ability to play in a ‘muddy’ pocket: NDSU had a very good run game, with a dominant run blocking OL. They were no where near as effective in pass protection and struggled to deal with anything fancy when i watched them. If you got NDSU in 3rd and long you see Wentz having little time before pressure gets home.
The results are a bit of mixed bag, like a lot of athletic QB’s he knows he can make positive yards with his feet so is too willing (for my taste) to tuck it and run at times.
However he does hang in the pocket at times and seems to have a good feel for when a blitz is going to get home and gets the ball out fast.
Probably the worst aspect his inaccuracy when throwing on the move, if he does not have a good base and is off balance then he can miss by 2-3 yards and most of his INT’s come off those kinds of plays, I put it down to poor footwork because he obviously is hugely athletic with good balance but it is something he needs to fix if he is going to achieve his potential because he has the tools (arm and athleticism) to do many of the scramble plays that Rogers does in a broken pocket.
Always a pleasure reading your replies. Good stuff.
here’s his 1st career start — against a real opponent, iowa st.
you can see him not only in his most raw state, but against one of the better opponents NDSU played
https://youtu.be/L_bj2XUqpeg
That was a real strong game by Wentz. I liked what I saw out of him in this video a lot more than I have in other breakdowns and short clips of games
Be nice if we saw him making any reads or climbing the pocket or doing anything in that first montage. Gotta wonder why he made the decision he did on the first through. Pause at the 9 second mark, dude is wide open, but instead ball gets pushed into triple coverage.
I have been struggling to grasp at why the Eagles would give up so much to get a QB like Wentz.
I don’t doubt that he has potential to be very good, but I am not even close to comfortable with several other key positions such as our O line.
Is it insane to think that the Eagles might shock everyone and take Tunsil instead of a QB?
Back when Tennessee had the first pick everyone had them taking Tunsil at #1.
I mean we are paying Bradford top starter money, so if you have the QB position locked in for the foreseeable future why pick a player so high and give up so much, only to have him sit for two years or more.
What does this say about all the money we just paid Sam?
You can call me crazy but if we really want to win now, doesn’t it makes more sense to take Tunsil over Wentz?
I agree – had an opportunity to get a real talent and close up that tackle spot. But i think organization really knows it needs a QB, so they jumped up. It’s sort of too be expected when you have a new coach.
I think it’s all about the fact that they won’t be in position to take a top QB. If you’re in that position, put your chips on the table. Not saying I’m onboard, because I’m sort of ambivalent. But there is a philosophy behind the move. And you don’t have to agree with the philosophy necessarily to at least understand the logic of it.
Perfectly stated.
Hard to imagine they gave up that much for a non-QB, but it’s an interesting thought. Maybe Ramsey is a possibility as well.
They have poured an incredible amount of resources into QB this offseason… seems like they are incredibly fixated on it. But… they have a couple of legit chances to find a QB now, I guess. Between Bradford and #2… hopefully one of them emerges.
Not if you don’t believe in your QB.
We have Bradford for only 1 year unless he plays like Aaron Rodgers this season, add that to the fact that Howie is betting we wont be drafting top 10 the next few years and this year is the chance to get a QB.
Bradfords deal is esseintially a 1 year deal worth around the franchise tag.
Kempski made a really good point that there are a lot of teams with ageing qbs who are moving towards a huge hole in their rosters at that position in the next three or four years. Meanwhile there doesn’t seem to be very good prospects coming out in the next couple years. So they are trying to get in front of the curve here, trading up to pick a good prospect before the whole thing turns into a frantic bidding war of desperate teams left and right fighting over anyone who can throw a spiral.
That sounds great and all, but nobody had Wentz pegged as a first rounder a few months ago. To pretend we can look years down the line and know how good the prospects will be is patently absurd.
I agre with that. But the point is that this might be the only opportunity for the team to actually get to the first or second pick for many years to come. Howie doesn’t expect to be picking in the top ten in the next five years, and even if they do, they will find themselves in a bidding war with about ten or fifteen teams for whatever dubious prospect who is coming out. This year they only had to bid against the rams and, in some way, the browns, who didn’t want to pick up a QB. In the coming years that will simply not be the case. Either the toP picking teams will want to stay pat and pick up a QB for themselves, or the competition for the trade will be much more fierce. I think this is the thinking behind this move, hone stay. Went might not be a sure thing, but this could be their only chance to pick a high upside prospect I then top of the first for many years to come. And if you look at it that way, I think this trade is a very smart move. That just has less to do with went and more to do with the league dynamics looking ahead.
This is one of the most annoying arguments out there. Not to bash on you, sorry. But, look, they signed Bradford before they knew if there was any way to trade up and get a QB at all. They knew they wanted to, but couldn’t be sure. So they signed Sam to a short term contract to make sure they would have a decent starter to compete this year and possibly the next. He can be traded after this year, and if he plays well we can easily recoup the second rounder we paid for him. Meanwhile the raw rookie prospect has a year to sit. It all makes sense, perfectly actually. Oh and, they are not picking Tunsil or anything other than a QB, be real.
I mean Tunsil isnt going to be better than JP this year. So I guess to answer your question; no.
They could have stayed at 8 and got Stanley who is an excellent prospect, and not given up so many picks to get Tunsil, so it makes no sense to select him. This is a boom or bust trade to find QB who can put them in contention for a Superbowl. Lurie is desperate to win one. He has made a fortune off the Eagles. At this
point he is thinking about his legacy.
Ben, Howie and the Rams GM have a good relationship, so they won’t jeopardize that by lying to each other. Howie even said that it is going to be a QB, and will take whichever one is left from the Rams. It will be Wentz.
The things I’ve read/heard that are concerns about Wentz are:
1. Lack of experience playing QB
2. Lack of experience playing football overall
3. Lower level of competition
4. Inconsistent accuracy on deep throws and roll outs/on the run
5. Inconsistent mechanics – mostly footwork, but also throwing rotation and follow through
His character, pocket presence and awareness, toughness, ability to run, arm strength, height, hand size and leadership by all accounts seem good.
The key IMO will be the ability for him to sit a year, learn, get reps in practice and continue developing. The Eagles have to make sure he is ready when they make him the starter and that the team around him is good enough to mitigate the normal growing pains of a young QB.
The worst things they can do is rush him and then have to yank him back out again. Sit him two years if you have to, but make sure he is in the best position to succeed once his clock starts.
The ability to process information quickly and make fast decisions.
Is without doubt a concern as well. He loves to lock on to a receiver, and at times goes through his progressions like treacle.
However when he locks on a WR they generally come open, and he has the arm talent to get them the ball quickly, which shows a pretty good feel for the game. How much of this was caused by having limited receiving options he trusted, knowledge that they would come open if he was patient, and reading there was no player in the area to take advantage i dont know.
Also there are times when he processes the information quickly, looks of a safety and throws a WR open with his read of the game, which shows that he can do it all sometimes. The NFL question is how much that sometimes becomes with development and coaching.
Biggest concern of mine. He didn’t have enough starts in college to really get the necessary reps to develop that skill. I think people underestimate how necessary that is, except in the rarest of rare circumstances.
That said, I think Rodgers really benefited from sitting several years in the NFL for specifically this reason. Wentz will probably need two years, at least, of sitting before getting thrown to the wolves. Hopefully, this FO is patient enough to do it right.
I agree with you and the others about the essential nees to be patient with Wentz. Regarding Rodgers, I remember sensing the Packers wanted him on the field but Farve refused to bow out gracefully the their FO didn’t move hom out.
I am torn between thinking it’s something one could develop if given the right circumstances and thinking it’s an inherent ability.
I think it’s both, like most abilities/skills. There are certain genetic baselines/advantages/disadvantages, but practice can make a difference. Think strength, as the simple analogy. Thing is, when you’re talking the most elite competitive arena, you need a fair dose of both. Can’t just get by on natural ability, nor can you really make up for severe enough genetic disadvantages to become above average at this level.
I think Wentz is the rare QB who has the talent to be taken early and then gets at least 1 year to sit and learn to fix some of his problems.
The year of sitting is essential.
“The key IMO will be the ability for him to sit a year, learn, get reps in practice and continue developing. The Eagles have to make sure he is ready when they make him the starter and that the team around him is good enough to mitigate the normal growing pains of a young QB.”
AMEN. Let him make all of his rookie mistakes in camp, pre-season, and practice for a full yeah. Hell, I let him make all of his sophomore slump mistakes the same way. If he doesn’t start for a while, but hits the ground running when he does we’ll be in good shape.
Id love to see us put him in bubble wrap for his first two seasons, but yeàr 2 will depend on where he is at in his development. I hope they don’t feel the need to play him in yeàr two if he still needs more time on the bench….. After what we paid, the worst thing we could do is rush him on the field…. If he proves to be some type of NFL prodigy who doesnt need two years on the bench, GREAT… But we need to give him all the patience his development requires.
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Id also like to shore up that left side of our OL (Longterm) and get Wentz a yoûng Franchise RB before we throw him into the fire
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I can’t wait to watch Brandon Brooks Maul people in the run game.. Big BIG Summamabitch
The Eagles will gain over 30 + million in Cap Space next year after trading Sam Bradford (hopefully to recoup a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick) and releasing Jason Peters along with another 10 million increase in salary cap projected.
I know we do not have a 1st round pick in 2017, but I would bet the house that the Eagles will fill a few needs via free agency with this money. Likely a starting right tackle ( Johnson moves to left tackle) and a few other smart signings much like this year. Remember that you rarely can go out in FA and get a franchise QB. We all know this, but once you actually get your franchise QB you can certainly build around him in both the draft and with intelligent FA signings.
I am very excited that we took the gamble to get our QB for the next decade. I look forward to building a team around him that we can be proud of here in Philly.
Ultimately I would like to see us get to the point where our off-seasons are fairly quiet which would mimic the more successful franchises in this league.( NE,Pitt, GB etc..) Draft well, extend our own home grown talent and just use Free Agency sparingly to fill holes and depth. I think we have a plan and the future looks bright.
Lets just hope Wentz is the real deal!
“releasing Jason Peters”
easy with that. There are enough teams with tackle issues that I’d like to see Peters traded.
That would be fine by me! Worst case though we get the cap space back.
This is the reason I want Bradford traded now. i’d happily take less less in 2016 to move him than wait for 2017.
1) we are free and clear of his salary in 2017. We will need that money to fill holes
2) Bradford could get hurt and his value goes down anyway
3) Bradford will be a distraction. Having Chase start and Wentz developing behind him is a clear plan. Bradford just makes that awkward.
4) we will win less games without Bradford. People will complain that the 1st we traded away will be a high pick, but they are missing the point. Its only so high because we moved on from Bradford, but it also improves the draft position in other rounds.
Rip the band-aid off fast, not slow.
1. Cap rollover means it’s all the same.
2. I think people are overvaluing what Bradford would bring in return right now.
I believe the following is true, but I am not certain.
If we trade Bradford in 2016 we save $1.5mil this year and owe none of his $22.5mill in 2017.
If we trade him next year we are still on the hook for $5.5mil when traded resulting in only a $17.5mil savings.
That is a $7mil difference heading into next season. Additionally if the eagles were unable to trade Bradford before FA opens next year they will be significantly restricted during that FA period.
I want Bradford traded now too. The question is how much value does he have and is lurie really prepared to win just 4-6 games next year if he does.
Given how wentz is really a move with 3-4 years down the road in mind, the Eagles don’t even have to go out next year in free agency and blow a huge wad just to try to address a need of two either.
This is going to require patience and at least 2 years to begin to pan out with arguably the least patient and bipolar fan base in the NFL.
My friend joked that fans will be calling for wentz if the Eagles are down at half to the Browns in the opener. I can’t imagine if Bradford has 2-3 subpar consecutive games either.
The good thing is Doug has learned from Reid and coached Alex Smith where they used quite a bit of zone read, to take advantage of his mobility.
Wentz has a nice, quick release there. I often see with big QBs a long windup, but he can cock and fire a bullet in a hurry.
On Wentz:
– I agree that passing tape is impressive, my only question is how does he adapt to the game speed in the NFL.
– given the game speed in the NFL, I’d hope he’d realize his mobility needs to be mostly channeled at extending pass plays rather than exposing himself to hit by rushing too frequently.
I think,if indeed we get Wentz, there is a lot to work with and I’d be excited to have him. I still think we slightly overpaid to move up (by the value of a 2nd round pick), but I’d hope to recoup that value in a future trade of Bradford.
Hopefully we can still add the drafted / cost controlled talent at T, G, C, RB, WIL, SAM, and CB we’ll need over the next few years to really get Wentz the teammates to win a lot of games.
And it if takes until his 33rd game in the league to be our full-time starter; so be it.
Not that i disagree that much, but I feel you could make the argument that every single prospect has to adapt tot he speed in the NFL and the physicality of professional players compared to when they were the big guy on their college team.
I’m not bothered by the fact that Wentz, or Goff, will be on our team. I’m with you on the fact that we slightly overpaid in a trade, that maybe a trade was a little rushed and our overall planning of handling the QB issue seems a little weird with now 3 expensive QBs, either money or pick wise, or in Bradford case both, even with 2 of the 3 QBs here arguable on short term and 1 not being ready to go from day one.
I was in a group text thread argument with a group of friend over moving up for one of the two QBs in this draft as a function of Schefter’s point about teams in the future all being very QB need. He was saying these two guys weren’t worth it relative to possible future guys and/or guys in the recent past in terms of top two guys taken in each draft.
As a mental exercise using only the first two QBs to come off of the board.
Guys I looked at or will look at as better than Wentz and Goff coming into the draft.:
2010 – Bradford
2011 – Scam
2012 – Andrew Luck
2015 – Marcus Mariaota
Guys I looked at or will look at as worse than Wentz and Goff coming into the draft:
2010- Tebow
2011 – Jake Locker
2012 – RGMe
2013 – EJ Manuel
2013 – Geno Smith
2014 – Blake Bortles
2014 – Johnny Manziel
2015 – Jameis Winston (red flagged due to being a rapist)
2017 – DeShaun Watson
2017 – Brad Kaaya
So I don’t feel that bad about moving up to the the QB we want.
I think i would swap Newton and RG3…. Cam has been a great pro, and his size and strength has translated really effectively now but he was not a consensus no.1 pick, and there were significant concerns about his accuracy (still an issue), his reading of the game and coming from a very basic offensive system.
RG3 showed better accuracy, seemed to have a better feel for the game and was (laughably now) considered a better character guy.
I think Wentz and Goff are good QB prospects (but for very different reasons). They are not Luck (which seems to be most peoples QB comparison point), and while they both have high upsides both had bigger on the field transitions than other players drafted. However their off the field is spotless and seem to be 100% football committed that should help ensure that if they fail it will be because of injury or failure to transition their game.
That’s fair. An even numerical swap that doesn’t undercut my point about these two not being out of line for going high in the draft.
Oh i agree, and i think that people who talk about them being more risky (on the field transition to the NFL), discount the fact that they are significantly safer ‘off the field’ translations compared to a Manziel or a Winston.
I like Wentz and Goff more than Bortles as prospects so that would suggest to me that they should be going top 3 in the draft.
I hated RG3 as a prospect, I also hated his fraudulent rookie season while most of the media was crowning that fool because he had a good year running around throwing to his first read, as if playing that way had any chance of being sustainable..
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I had my issues with Cam as a prospect too, and the first few years of his career were ugly, but given years to Develope on the same team with a lot of the same coaching staff turned him into a better passing Qb than I ever imagined.
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given 5 years of Patience/development by the skins, with the same coaches, maybe RG3 could have made it, but since his injury its all been down hill, and his personality seemed to hurt him as well
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I think there are a lot of young QB’s that we view as busts today, who could have had a different career if their franchise gave them 5 years to Develope In the same system. QB position was always hard to draft, I think it’s gotten much harder that now Owners fire coaches and change schemes after a team struggles for 2 years…
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I have no idea how good of a coach Pederson is, im sure he will still grow into his new role given time, I just hope Lurie DOESNT do what he did with Chip Kelly especially now that we made this big investment in a young QB… He hired doug Pederson, time to stick by him and give him 4 or 5 years of patience, not because I really care about Having Doug as our Coach, but because allowing Wentz to grow for 4/5years under the same coaches in the same scheme gives us the best chance of this Wentz becoming the big dog franchise QB we hope he would be when we made this trade… If Pederson has a rough season or two and the media and fans start chirping, hopefully Lurie has the stones to tune out the noise and stick with this regime that he thought was good enough to hire
Great post. I agree that a lot of young qbs would have been ok given more time and stability. I do see Lurie as extremely patient and stable though. It seems that the turnover with CK was a personal thing for Lurie. I could be wrong (obviously) but for some reason I don’t expect him to be as impatient with future coaches.
It’s not like RG3 is some scum bag. Working in the DC media I had he opportunity to interact with him a few times. Super nice guy, that seemed to genuinely care about strangers. I think his problem was just being consumed with his public persona. Kinda sucks to see people thinking he is like T.O or something.
Gave everything for his team. And he blew out his knee. And then played on it when it was injured.. Cost him dearly.
I think he is flawed as a player, but it was the staff’s responsibility to protect him from himself. That was a terrible misuse of a valuable asset. I think after sucking for so long it was too hard for the Washingtons to do the right thing and sit him down.
I’m glad to hear that, because I want to cheer for guys when I see them vilified.
Some people just love to hate — ‘specially behind the safety of their tough-guy internet account.
I don’t get the impression that he is a bad person or anything like that.. And if he played a different position like WR, we may have never even heard a peep about issues with his football Charechter…but from the outside looking in, the impression I got is that he is very lacking in terms of his football but only because he is playing a position where leadership is one of the key Job requirements… If he was a WR or a corner, there would probably be no issues with how he carried himself in washington..
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He is no longer the prized QB who our hated Rival mortgaged 3 drafts for, so I couldn’t care less how his career unfolds from here. Respect if he can salvage his career and turn it around. He is still young enough to not rule that out. Besides being our Rival, the only thing that bothered me was how much the media was over rating him. He is no longer a threat to our division titles, I dont want to see Hue Jackson succeed, but other than that good for him if he can turn it around and make something out of all his talents. He is a young man, and After everything he went thru in DC, I would hope he learned something and can not repeat some of his past mistakes.. But he isn’t some criminal or bad person that deserves to have people hoping he fails, outside of Steeler. bengals and Ravens fans of course ….And it looks like the Browns are at least going to give him a decent chance now that he won’t have a QB drafted #2 breathing down his neck his first year in Cleveland
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It’s been a while since his injury. Wonder where his athletcicism level is at these days compared to pre injury level?
Something definitely happened, and his ego is definitley a problem. I wouldnt want him anywhere near my team. I wouldnt habe any problem letting him dog sit for me though.
yup, at least not as our QB where leadership is in your jpb requirment… If he was a WR or something it wouldn’t be as big of an issue.. But when the OL DOESNT like the QB, probably doing something wrong
That might be his biggest failure. Leadership. His team was over him before he wver came back from the acl.
RG3 and Cam weren’t in the same draft class…so what are you swapping? He’s doing it by year.
Maybe it was just the dialogue because Luck was in the draft but I recall it being pretty unanimous both guys couldn’t fail. Happy to hear you view these guys better than RG.
Simply put; I hated the dude at Baylor and saw his a massively overrated prospect who was a running back, not a quarterback.
I hear you. I couldn’t stand him at Baylor, and I hated his rookie year even more when the media was treating him as some QB God because he had a little success playing a style that had no shot of being sustainable… As if at some point defensive Coordinatirs weren’t going to start taking away his first read.. Yes his injury hurt him, but that’s a convenient excuse when he failed to Develope in so many crucial areas that had nothing to do with his athleticism.
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They hype that kid got during his rookie year was a joke. It was an impressive season as far as rookie QB play goes, but it was pretty clear that he wasn’t going. Be able to sustain that type of success without making drastic improvements in so many crucial areas which for whatever reason he has failed to do up to this point…
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Hue jackson is getting on my nerves puffing his chest out at press confrences about how he told everyone that with their new analytic approach they would be doing things different from everyone else after the trade, and how they are evaluating guys different from everyone else… Talk is cheap, let’s hear about how your different way of going about things is so great after the next two seasons…. It really turned me hue hearing him go on his tangent After the trade.
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SAM Hinkie wrote about how when the world was ripping him and shitting on his approach for 3 years, he didn’t think it was right to defend himself and his approach because it would essentially be putting his approach vs the way everyone else does things, and indirectly defending his plan would be saying that his way is better than how everyone else was operating… I was so impressed by that, shows real intelligence and thoughtfulness, yet Hue takes a job with unproven analytic front office and is already chirping and pounding his chest about how their Different approach then everyone else is going to be so great… With Hinkies intelligence, he could have verbally SLAYED all the people ripping him if he chose to defend himself, but was thoughtful enough to hold back, and just allow everyone to pile on and treat him like a joke for 3 years…. I hope Hue and the Browns falll flat on their face… All they are doing is taking their time the way the Jaguars did, yet Gus Bradley never rubbed their approach in ANYONES face..
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I hope the Browns pass on Wentz who goes on to be a hall of fame QB, and then draft Paxton Lynch who ends up being a complete bust.. I actually respect what the Browns front office is doing, and before they made the trade I could see why they would want to do something different than what the Browns have been doing for decades that have led to all their failure so I wasn’t surprised that they decided not to take a QB at #2, but to hear hue Jakson go on a tangent and beat his chest about their new way of doing things after the trade makes me want to see them crash and burn
Then why don’t you hate Wentz? He tries to run after he can’t throw to his first read.
Im rarely a fan of seeing a QB run… If a QB is going to play that way, it’s easier to tolerate if
A) a QB comes with serious size/bulk that can better hold up to the punishment like a Cam newton, McNabb, Culpepper..
B) if you are going to run around as a QB under 240lbs, Its much easier for me to accept it if the guy has mastered the art of sliding and not taking hits the way you see with Aaron Rogers and Russell Wilson, two of the smaller QBs who run a lot, yet rarely let you touch them..
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As much as I generally hate running QBs, I wouldn’t want to see Russell Wilson stop running if he was our QB. The kid runs all day and barely gets touched…. Thats how you do it if you want to make that a part of your game at the NFL level
Arm + shoulder injuries
Wrist injury
Concussions
He’s durable right?
I hope we don’t see Wentz trying to Truck NFL defenders every week either. I have no idea if he can slide or not, most of his highlights are running over people. By the time he is done growing he should be around 240lb, but even then Id prefer that he learn to protect himself. hopefully it doesn’t take him years to learn he can’t play like a LB in the NFL. andrew luck had to learn the hard way, hopefully Wentz understands that quickily
*cough* white *cough*
You lack the requisite anatomical features to have a physician ask you to do that, so enjoy it now.
Incorrect. Runs more than I’d like, but not on an RGMe level.
It might not have been as much but RG3 is 10 times the runner that Wentz is. Can’t blame the coach for taking advantage of that.
lol
RG3 was an infinitely better prospect than either of these guys.
Seeing as we have some legitimate needs to re-fill the talent on this team in addition to QB, I don’t see how we can stand pat in the 3rd round. So I traded down twice to try to find the best spot to grab some much needed o-line help w/o having to take it too early. I wish I was able to trade down using Fan Speaks simulator, but one cannot do it on the easy to access version. Bottom line is I don’t see how 3-5-5-6-7-7 gets us good enough players to help long term. I think we need more guys prior to round 5.
Round 1 Pick 2: Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 6 (BALT): Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 16 (OAK): Connor McGovern, OG, Missouri (A)
Round 4 Pick 22 (WASH): Rashard Robinson, CB, LSU (B)
Round 5 Pick 14: Travis Feeney, OLB/ILB, Washington (B-)
Round 5 Pick 25: Matt Ioannidis, DT, Temple (A-)
Round 6 Pick 13: Keith Marshall, RB, Georgia (A)
Round 7 Pick 12: Daniel Braverman, WR, Western Michigan (A)
Round 7 Pick 30: Doug Middleton, FS, Appalachian State (A)
The question for a team like Eagles, is if quantity will trump quality after the 1st round pick.
I think it does and there hope we can get something good out of the 3rd round pick.
Nothing there has been wowing me so far, so that’s why
I keep trading down.
If we got two contributors out of the draft after Wentz I would be ecstatic. If you add a Taylor heart on to that it would be a pretty amazing draft on the budget (doesn’t really contribute but could of played a big role in CK def in year 3)
I’m still really pissed that we weren’t awarded KC’s pick in the tampering case. Really should have been based on past precedent. They should have at least been some type of pick swap. We’d be positioned a lot better if we had KC’s third.
Agreed. We was robbed.
Yeah that’s really dirty, especially when we are talking about a player that we were actively trying to retain… They broke rules that helped them pry away one of our better playërs, yet they lose draft picks, they still get our player, and all we get is the satisfaction of seeing the NFL give KC a slap on the wrist?
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If you are going to take their picks, why wouldn’t those picks go to the team that illegally lost one of its top players? Even worse is that we lost Maclin during a year where chip went on an expensive shopping spree so we don’t even get a compensatory pick… We were Wronged, how do we end up with nothing? If you are going to Take KC picks, why not Give it to us? It makes no sense, yet we end up getting fucked as usual
Have they ever actually awarded a pick to another team? If I recall, they have had the teams swap picks in the same round, but that doesn’t work if the Eagles had the higher pick to begin with. I’m not sure the NFL has ever done more than in-round swaps, and straight forfeitures, in such situations.
HR called his wizardry in FA “our draft”, and added that the udfa’s are going to be under closer scrutiny than ever. My thinking is he wants a steal at 3, and will keep his fingers crossed for the later pick-ups.
Oh great, another receiver that drops balls!
This trade is great for Tlaw…all his post can now be specific and we’ll get a ton of info on both. NFL reports the eagles have called the Rams and you don’t make the trade unless you know 100%. Not sure how true. Blindly trusted CK now blindly trusting HR.
The question is the qbs projection talent? He doesn’t have to be top 2 or 3…is he projected top 7? 10?
Kinda takes the fun out of this year’s draft to be honest. I don’t think I’ll even watch. Not trying to hear ESPN hate on the trade.
I do feel like I am blindly trusting HR here. For Chip it was more “I really really hate this move it makes no sense, but Chip is smart and I am stupid”
Tumtum —
You called the Eagles as, at best, an 8-8 team last year.
Stupid you were not. Smart Kelly was not.
Saturday has become the most watchable day of this years draft for us. I don’t even know when the last time that happened was… Hopefully it will be worthy investment/sacrifice.. But I’ll be out of the country so I guess this is the best time for me to go thru a draft Like this, although I did plan on watching the entire draft, but now i probably won’t stay up to watch Thursday and Friday night which wouldn’t even start for me TIL 2am…
Your first mistake was watching ESPN.
Listen to the Eagles Draft show so you can hear Dave Spadaro constantly interrupt Merrill Reese
Well, this depends on the talent influx from the coming drafts a lot. In five years there will be no brees, Brady, palmer, romo, eli or rivers, and we will be seeing the very last year’s of Alex smith and Joe flacco and rothlisberger. So to be top ten in five years time or so is really more about how he stacks up against the young talent coming in than the old dudes at the position. If he is beer than Bortles he might be a top 7 guy at that point..
Against his peers .. excellent point
If Wentz is the real deal Holyfield, it will give us a pretty nice head start over our division rivals in terms of the next era of NFCeast play…if Kurt Cousins and Wentz are legit, skins and Eagles could have a 3-4 year head start over the Cowboys and Giants who haven’t even begun to think about life after Romo and Eli.. At least the Giants have an Iron Man who doesn’t miss games in Eli, WTF are the Cowboys doing? They really think they are so good that they are legit contenders, so much that it’s worth not starting to think about their future? These fools won’t have a Lombardi trophy to show for falling a few years behind the Eagkes and Skins in terms of building for the next era of division play..
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You would think Jerry Jones learned something from what happened after Aikemen retired and they spent years dicking around with inadequate Qbs like Quincy Carter, until they eventually got “Lucky” with Romo… After what they went thru between Aikmens retirement and when they found Romo, you would think they learned something and will at least try to take steps To make a better transition from Romo to their next era QB. The Real Insanity of it all is that they Romos age and lack of durability gives them another reason why they should be investing in their QB future. Talking about being blinded by delusions of SUPERBOWL grandeur. Let’s pretend miraculously Romo plays 14 games this year, is his body really going to hold up like that for the next two seasons? They have shown that they can’t get a serious backüp who can keep the boat afloat when Romo gets hurt The way we able to do with Jeff Garcia. So if they cant get that type of back up, they should at least try to get a young QB who they can give developmental playing time in the next season or two when Romo inevitably gets hurt. Last year was a complete waste of year for them and they are likely to waste at least one more season like that before the end of the romo era. At least if they had a young QB worthy of developmental Reps they wouldn’t completely waste an entire season the next time Romo misses 10 plus games.
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At this point what are the Cowboys best possible options? Cardale? hackenberg? Prescott? Pick up Foles when Rams cut him? Trade for Glennon? Every year that passes without the Cowboys investing in a top QB prospect in the draft gives us more of a head start IF Wentz is the real deal. These morons are going to I give the division a massive head start and in the end, they won’t have a Lombardi to show for it.
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Even better is the Fact that they are Really getting FUCKED because their ISNT a red flag that they arent willing to take a Chance on. now drafting scumbags has really caught up to them and put them in a horrible situation because on one hand you know they are seriously tempted to draft Zeke because he is the one player they can add that can help Romo stay healthy the most, trying to replicate how they used Murray, running him into the ground to protect Romo and get him thru the season two years ago, but im not sure they can afford to take Zeke all because they ignored every red flag and decided to build one of the most important positions in the NFL, defensive end, thinking they were smarter than everyone and could manage all the Charevhter red flags of Greg Hardy, Demarcus Lawrence and Randy Gregory….. Now they find themselves in a terrible predicament where they May have to pass on a Premier position which is by far the biggest Need on their team(DE) so that they can take a less valued position RB to try and help Get Romo thru a year healthy. as of today, the Cowboys DONT have anything close to a credible starting DE the first 4 weeks of the season. How Embarressing is it to invest second round picks in the last couple drafts in DE’s who both got themselves suspended the first 4 games of the year, for a team that’s ignoring the future because they massively over rate their team and delusional think they will win a Super Bowl before Romo retires.
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Now that Peyton and all his neck surgeries has retired, is their any QB whos body accumulated a bigger beating and has more mileage on his body than Tony Romo? The Giants probably won’t win another Superbowl with Eli, but at least they are ignoring their future at QB while having a guy who has been as durable as it gets… You would think that Stephan Jones would have helped Dallas Smarten up, but other than passing on Manziel for the stud Guard, they are still operating like fools… Franchise Never met a red flag they wouldn’t take a chance on… That has officially caught up to them in a big way…
It’s really the stuff dreams are made of. …ahhh beautiful
the Eagles sure seem to know how to make watching the second half of preseason games interesting…
I got a trade I wanted to throw out there.
Bradford & Barwin & 5th rounder to the Broncos for their 2nd & 4th this year and contingent trade next year based on bradfords health (2nd-5th)
Barwin fits their 3-4 defense and would add to their stifling defense and they get a veteran QB that can step right in for a super bowl contender. Sam is better than Sanchez or Hoyer and I think can fit nicely in Denver.
I think it’s a win-win.
Barwin is a 4-3 DE. He came into the league at that position and it is natural position. A DE rotation of Graham-Curry-Barwin is a good one.
Barwin made his mark as a 3-4 OLB.
He’s a good athlete and a smart football player. I think he might surprise us going back to DE.
Barwin has always been an effort pass rusher, that’s not going to change anytime soon.
Broncos have Von Miller, DWare, Shane Ray, and Shaquille Barret. They are loaded with edge rushers.
They also don’t have a ton of cap room.
D3, off subject, but I was wondering what you think about the quality of the competition Wentz faced in college. How big a factor do you think this is in evaluating his future?
NDSU themselves are probably an 8-10 win team in the sun belt (hell I think they could make a bowl in the big 10).
He’s probably only played against about a dozen guys who will even make NFL camps.
So you’ve got a guy who has been playing on a team that loves to run the ball, and is several standard deviations better than their competiton.
It’s certainly a really big concern, which is only compounded by the lack of starting experience.
I like the trade. I’ll never fault anyone for swinging for a QB. I would just feel so much more comfortable if it was Goff.
Cool. Thank you.
I also agree, get Goff.
I would do that trade.
I threw this together fast so it may not be perfectly accurate just to get an idea of QB landscape overall :
5 years from now (some are optimistic too, some will fall off list for sure)
Age in 5 years
1. Rodgers 37
2. Wilson 32
3. Newton 32
4. Flacco 36 (may not be good anymore)
5. Winston 27
6. Mariota 27
7. Bortles 29
8. Luck 31
9. Dalton 33
10. Carr 30
11. Bridgewater 28
12. Stafford 33
13. Cousins 32
14. Taylor 32 (he’s still not there quite, Bills looking at QBs)
15. Bradford 33 (he will either be elsewhere or a backup because of injuries)
16.Tannehill 32 (he’s on bubble to stick in Miami much longer)
17. Ryan 36 (he will probably be done though)
18. Cutler 37 (he’s on bubble to stay with Bears, could be done in 5 years)
Wentz 28
Goff 26
Teams who will or may need to find QBs (it will be at least these teams)
New England (Garoppolo has a chance but I’m not sure it’s 50/50 even)
San Diego (Rivers will be 39, he will be done)
Dallas
New Orleans (Grayson has a chance but I’m not sure it’s 50/50 even)
Pittsburgh
Giants
Cleveland
San Francisco
Jets
Kansas City
Houston (I don’t really believe in Osweiler, he has about a 40% chance to stick)
Arizona
Mark Sanchez – 34
Romo 41 (at this rate dallas still has him)
Thanks I forgot Denver good catch because I mistakenly was counting 32 teams. Eagles will have two after draft – Bradford if healthy should still start somewhere in 5 years though not a lock.
Sorry but I don’t really see Sanchez starting now much less in 5 years and Denver should be looking for QB within the 5 years. So I didn’t put him in 5 years from now category.
Definitely some in the 5 years from now category that are debatable or won’t be there.
The QB situation in our division will be fun. Cousins might not be with Washington .
I don’t understand this point about the age of QBs that has been going around. Established elite QBs do tend to be older, because it takes time to establish one’s “eliteness”. There are some good-looking young QBs out there too, we just don’t know, yet–because there hasn’t been enough time–which ones will turn out to be great versus flashes-in-the-pan. Colin Kaepernick was thought by many to have established himself as a top-rank QB, and look where he is now. RG3 was the second coming… Five years is a career for an NFL player. Five years ago, Chip Kelly’s offense was unknown in the NFL, then it steamrolled the NFL, and now it’s done. There will always be teams that need QBs.
You’re saying..in 5 years all the qbs will be 5 years older?
Nice window for Tenn, Jax, and Indy. Maybe Oakland.
Maybe this was addressed in the last thread but I didn’t see it in this one. Would like to hear the thoughts of some of the cap:contract experts on here regarding the Norman contract.
Shit load of money for a guy whose 29 years old and produced in a a good overall defense. See Byron Maxwell.
Id rather play the skins next year with more Cap space and no Josh Norman… He is no Nnamdi type fraud. The skins got a really good player at a position they desperately needed. I don’t know what there Cap looks like the next few years but the skins will have a really good player that they didn’t have last week… Im not laughing at them. I liked it better when they didn’t have him, hopefully his cap number ends up hurting them
I feel the opposite. More than likely, it was a good move for the Eagles. Maybe not next year, but every year after that.
Yeah I rather he was overpaid in another division
How old was Nnamdii when he signed? He only played in one place as well and was arguably better than Norman for more than 2 years. We’ll see.
He ran a 4.66 40. He turns 29 this year. He has a whopping 1.5 years of high level production. Good player. But he got QB money. And it has high potential to be calamitous.
All of the love for Wentz (Greg Cosell, Jon Gruden, Mick Mayock) has me ready to blow a gasket when the Rams take him #1.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016
RC posted for me, think he said Cho originally found. May make you feel hetter if its Goff.
I’m surprised people don’t check that site after all my proselytizing, if only as a check on the media groupthink conventional wisdom mob mentality.
It seems like a pretty solid formula. There are is a bunch that their formula can’t take into account, and it looks like poor competition could be a bit of a monkey wrench in their calculations. Leads me to think that they could be wrong about Wentz, but that Goff probably really does have a good shot at being at least serviceable.
I have been leaning that way for weeks, but the chatter has been predominantly on Wentz, and it got me questioning my preference. Thanks for passing on the link.
About half of the insiders prefer Goff. Bob McGinn of the Wisconsin Journal-Sentinel(his pre-draft series is probably the best out there) polled a certain number of execs(think 17 but don’t remember exactly) polled anonymously the execs asking them rate their top 5 QBs in this year’s draft 1-5 with 5 points awarded for 1, 4 for 2, etcetera. Goff was 1st with 73 points but Wentz was just behind with 71 1/2 points(I guess someone polled had a tie). It’s pretty much a toss-up. I think Wentz is the better fit for the Eagles.
Not sure I’m buying this. Sam did little to impress last season, and he signs an inflated contract, but now because Eagles move up to take a QB, he wants to be traded. Really? Surely he knows that if he delivers on the field that he’ll be re-signed, and rookie QB will sit. The rookie needs to sit so, I want to hear this from his mouth before I believe it.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25563553/report-sam-bradford-likely-to-ask-eagles-for-trade-out-of-philadelphia%20-
Jason Cole said Sam Bradford likely to ask Eagles for trade out of Philadelphia. The key word is LIKELY. It’s merely a guess that got blown out of proportion by the Philly and national media. Cole has no inside information. He just wrote the article to gain clickbait exposure.
A common clickbait trend is to write the word “Report” when someone on Twitter offers their opinion in a Tweet or linked article. BGN has been doing this for years.
Cole, formerly of Yahoo Spots is now receiving a paycheck from Bleacher Report. I read some interesting pieces on Yahoo, but this strikes me as a move in the direction of gutter journalism.
In any universe, parallel or otherwise is there any chance we DONT take a QB after moving up?
The universe where we are becoming the worst team in the league.
what other position would you want to see them draft that you would be ok still paying for 3 drafts from now? The alternate Universe where Ditka is still trading entire drafts for a RB..
Bad injury to either QB. Rams take the healthy one, leaving us to either draft badly injured player or to fall back on a non-QB selection.
Don’t know if this was posted, but here’s some advanced stats Wentz v. Goff.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgA-9BxWEAEh2JP.jpg
Thank you for sharing this.
Boomer Esisason, who was Frank Reich’s college roommate, thinks that the Rams are taking Wentz and Goff is who the Eagles want anyway.
That’s interesting.
My problem with this is that the reporters that are saying that the Rams are taking Goff are getting that info from somewhere and what possible reason would the Rams have to mislead them? They’re #1, they’re getting who they want anyway, so I don’t see the benefit. Normally, I’d say Goff’s agent may be pushing that he’s going #1 but but Goff and Wentz have the same agent so it doesn’t make sense that they’d promote one client over the other to the media.
The whole thing is really strange.
The thing to remember is whoever the Eagles end up getting at 2 is who they wanted all along anyway.
Yeah, I still assume they already know who the Rams are taking.
if your goff or wentz are you even working out right now? what happens if you injure yourself at this point in the game?
Goff apparently cancelled some scheduled visits once the Rams traded up.
I have heard about how intelligent wentz is, how much responsibility he was given, and how it was a pro style offense.
How does he do though when he had to go to his 3rd or 4th read and does he automatically tend to try to run if the pocket breaks down?
Am I the only fan that was happy they made the move and will be happy with either QB?
yes 🙂